Everybody can contribute to the Wikipedia, including the Mapudungun-speaking community itself. That way, you have an active feedback process, and the resulting work doesn't belong to any person or organization in particular, but to everybody.
That can't be said about Microsoft's language pack, which was a work done between four walls, without input from the actual community. And THAT's the problem.
That depends on the alphabet you're using, since the language didn't have a writing of its own before the Spanish invasion, and there's no consensus yet on the alphabet to use. The difference between Mapudungun and Mapuzugun are the graphemes you're using to express certain consonants.
It actually sounds: m-a-p-u-th-(*)-ng-U-n
m, p, and n have the usual sounds. a and u like in Spanish. U is just a stressed u.
th is like the th in "thing" or like the th in this. Voicing is irrelevant. It's usually spelled as either d or z.
(*) AFAIK, the 'u' in dungun/zugun used (Augusta, 1903) to be pronounced as a schwa (the "a" in "about"), which is the unstressed allophone of the sixth vowel of Mapudungun, which stressed sounds like the y in Russian "vy" ("you"). It's usually spelled as "ü" (u umlaut), though it's a different sound than that of German "ü".
I think the shift towards 'u' is due to influence from Spanish, but note that "u" and "ü" are different sounds, often changing the meaning of a word.
ng is a velar nasal, and sounds like the ng in "thing", NOT like the ng in "bingo". It's spelled as either "ng" or just "g".
There's a sound in the language, a sort of voiced velar approximant that actually corresponds to Mapudungun "ü" in the same way that "i" corresponds to "y" and "u" corresponds to "w". It's most often spelled as "q".
The last fact is said to note that there are some linguists that use "g" to transcribe the latter sound while using "ng" for the velar nasal. Those are the same kind of folk that had the bright idea to use underlining in order to transcribe the difference between certain alveolar and dental consonants (*cough* Alfabeto Unificado *cough*). In my book, they lose.
Aren't you confusing the BIG TSU (that one that sounds roughly between 'ts' and 'tsu') with the SMALL TSU (used to mark gemination of the following consonant; cf. (U+5E78)/sachi/ happiness v/s (U+5BDF U+77E5)/sacchi/ inference)?
Of course, my main complain against Kana is that it ignores the pitch accent, which is phonemic (can change the meaning of a word). The bad news about it is that the pitch accent is very dialect-dependent...
The big lesson here is that the japanese U is not like an english OO. In fact, I'm not pronouncing myself correctly, either, but I tried. Also note that japanese I also may become "silent" in some contexts... (c.f. "Yokoshma", but "Kabuki")
I agree. Although it seems that it's easier to tell - for some reason - between Arab and Persian than between Iraq and Iran.:)
Yes, Persians/Iranies are very different. Even the Persian language - though written with a modified Arabic script - is actually an Indo-European Language (of the same family as Sanskrit, Hindi, Greek, Latin, English, Spanish, etc...), unrelated to Arabic and other Semitic languages.
Actually, Moses DID crash the original stone with the ten commandments, when he saw the people dancing around the golden calf and all that.
Of course those were just 10 commandments, which amount to less than 1 kB of text (it was even less in Hebrew writing), so writing them again was straightforward.
What wasn't straightforward was to keep the same word meaning and the separation between each commandment. However, the spirit of the commandments is still there.
Acknowledging the Lord as our God and no worshipping other gods but Him, no taking His name in vain, keep a day of the week holy, honor your father and mother, no murdering, no committing adultery, no stealing, no false witnessing, no covetting anything that is your neighbor's. Yeah, it's all there.
Too bad the knowledge of our civilization is not as straightforward and lasting in the time.
In the RSF.FR article, my country's name is correctly spelled as Chile.
It's a widely known fact that french-speaking people spell it as "Chili", so personally I don't mind.
Anyways, that coincidence of names is just that, a coincidence. The word 'Chile', refering to the country, probably comes from a quechuan expression that means "the last land". While 'chili', refering to the pepper (Capsicum sp.), comes from the nahuatl language.
I'm surprised this made it to Slashdot just now. There have been animated ads in Santiago's metropolitan subway for some time already.
There was also a story in a local newspaper about a chilean inventor that proposed the idea to our subway, but that was ignored; after that, he traveled to the U.S. to propose the idea and, after a while of the appearance of animated ads in the subways of major U.S. cities, our subway decided to implement that too.
I dunno if anything of that article is true, but I would not surprised if that was the case; we chileans have a long tradition of copying ideas from other countries instead of building on our own.
That's part of why we're not a developed country yet... (now that was overboard...)
Slashdot Mirror
... only old people hire webmasters.
Everybody can contribute to the Wikipedia, including the Mapudungun-speaking community itself. That way, you have an active feedback process, and the resulting work doesn't belong to any person or organization in particular, but to everybody.
That can't be said about Microsoft's language pack, which was a work done between four walls, without input from the actual community. And THAT's the problem.
That depends on the alphabet you're using, since the language didn't have a writing of its own before the Spanish invasion, and there's no consensus yet on the alphabet to use. The difference between Mapudungun and Mapuzugun are the graphemes you're using to express certain consonants.
g un_phonology&oldid=87441977
It actually sounds: m-a-p-u-th-(*)-ng-U-n
m, p, and n have the usual sounds. a and u like in Spanish. U is just a stressed u.
th is like the th in "thing" or like the th in this. Voicing is irrelevant. It's usually spelled as either d or z.
(*) AFAIK, the 'u' in dungun/zugun used (Augusta, 1903) to be pronounced as a schwa (the "a" in "about"), which is the unstressed allophone of the sixth vowel of Mapudungun, which stressed sounds like the y in Russian "vy" ("you"). It's usually spelled as "ü" (u umlaut), though it's a different sound than that of German "ü".
I think the shift towards 'u' is due to influence from Spanish, but note that "u" and "ü" are different sounds, often changing the meaning of a word.
ng is a velar nasal, and sounds like the ng in "thing", NOT like the ng in "bingo". It's spelled as either "ng" or just "g".
There's a sound in the language, a sort of voiced velar approximant that actually corresponds to Mapudungun "ü" in the same way that "i" corresponds to "y" and "u" corresponds to "w". It's most often spelled as "q".
The last fact is said to note that there are some linguists that use "g" to transcribe the latter sound while using "ng" for the velar nasal. Those are the same kind of folk that had the bright idea to use underlining in order to transcribe the difference between certain alveolar and dental consonants (*cough* Alfabeto Unificado *cough*). In my book, they lose.
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mapudun
True. And if there's any COBOL code on the Internet, it can be found using the following search terms:
"IDENTIFICATION DIVISION" "DATA DIVISION" DISPLAY PROGRAM-ID SECTION
No need for Google to develop a special search for what look less like a computer program and more like a plain text file.
Aren't you confusing the BIG TSU (that one that sounds roughly between 'ts' and 'tsu') with the SMALL TSU (used to mark gemination of the following consonant; cf. (U+5E78) /sachi/ happiness v/s (U+5BDF U+77E5) /sacchi/ inference)?
My personal pronunciation of "Yokosuka".
http://www.lgm.cl/contenido/yokosuka.ogg (33kB)
Of course, my main complain against Kana is that it ignores the pitch accent, which is phonemic (can change the meaning of a word). The bad news about it is that the pitch accent is very dialect-dependent...
The big lesson here is that the japanese U is not like an english OO. In fact, I'm not pronouncing myself correctly, either, but I tried. Also note that japanese I also may become "silent" in some contexts... (c.f. "Yokoshma", but "Kabuki")
? cat /etc/motd
/etc/motd /etc/motd
I DON'T KNOW HOW TO cat
?
And from the same machine:
READY
cat
ERROR - cat
I agree. Although it seems that it's easier to tell - for some reason - between Arab and Persian than between Iraq and Iran. :)
Yes, Persians/Iranies are very different. Even the Persian language - though written with a modified Arabic script - is actually an Indo-European Language (of the same family as Sanskrit, Hindi, Greek, Latin, English, Spanish, etc...), unrelated to Arabic and other Semitic languages.
Hahahaha. You the man bear.
:)
Yes, he's sick of it.
If you can't defeat them, BUY THEM. ;)
I thought it was "employers decide whether you're worth their time at all in 50ms"...
I mean. You're in heaven. You're not going to die anymore.
And since no one else in heaven is going to die, you don't need to preserve the species via reproduction.
Why would you still need to have sex?
That's not the Buddha you're looking for.
Our Brains Don't Work Like Computers
It's like the difference between "Discrete" and "Continuous", or between "Digital" and "Analog".
And that's only one aspect of the difference. Besides, neurons are _alive_.
Here's my favorite: College Roomies from Hell. If you thought college was Hell, wait till you meet your roommates!
:)
Because the tentacle freak said so.
Luis
The word "aliento" works better than "respiración" in that context.
:D
A better translation would be:
" El aliento de mi gato huele a comida para gatos. "
Said another loser.
Yikes! That guy shouldn't be allowed near a pencil!
Horrible. Ew...
Chile has Capitan Arturo Prat, General Bernardo O'Higgins, Presidente Eduardo Frei Montalva, and Profesor Julio Escudero as winter bases.
We also have Las Estrellas Village, complete with a School and other services.
List of winter bases in Antarctica, per country (sorry, country names are in Spanish, help yourself)
And many countries have summer bases too, which aren't listed.
Actually, Moses DID crash the original stone with the ten commandments, when he saw the people dancing around the golden calf and all that.
Of course those were just 10 commandments, which amount to less than 1 kB of text (it was even less in Hebrew writing), so writing them again was straightforward.
What wasn't straightforward was to keep the same word meaning and the separation between each commandment. However, the spirit of the commandments is still there.
Acknowledging the Lord as our God and no worshipping other gods but Him, no taking His name in vain, keep a day of the week holy, honor your father and mother, no murdering, no committing adultery, no stealing, no false witnessing, no covetting anything that is your neighbor's. Yeah, it's all there.
Too bad the knowledge of our civilization is not as straightforward and lasting in the time.
Luis
As of now. It seems that it was misspelled earlier today...
Still, I don't mind.
In the RSF.FR article, my country's name is correctly spelled as Chile.
:) :p
It's a widely known fact that french-speaking people spell it as "Chili", so personally I don't mind.
Anyways, that coincidence of names is just that, a coincidence. The word 'Chile', refering to the country, probably comes from a quechuan expression that means "the last land". While 'chili', refering to the pepper (Capsicum sp.), comes from the nahuatl language.
So don't be confused so easily.
Yeah, it's very clear he's from Alabama... ... for all values of Alabama between Argentina and the Pacific Ocean. :p
Eat this Logo code
But since there may be, I think, just a dozen of computers in that whole country, it doesn't seem relevant to include it...
:o)
j/k
I'm surprised this made it to Slashdot just now. There have been animated ads in Santiago's metropolitan subway for some time already.
There was also a story in a local newspaper about a chilean inventor that proposed the idea to our subway, but that was ignored; after that, he traveled to the U.S. to propose the idea and, after a while of the appearance of animated ads in the subways of major U.S. cities, our subway decided to implement that too.
I dunno if anything of that article is true, but I would not surprised if that was the case; we chileans have a long tradition of copying ideas from other countries instead of building on our own.
That's part of why we're not a developed country yet... (now that was overboard...)