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South Pole to Get Highway
tetrad writes "The New Scientist magazine reports that the US is building a road to the South Pole. The "highway" would cross the Ross Ice Shelf and then pass through the Transantarctic Mountains (map here). Convoys of tractors will be the only traffic on the road, bringing fuel and heavy equipment to the South Pole, as well as enabling the installation of a $250M fibre-optic communications cable (discussed previously)."
All I can say is "about time!" I've been waiting for this for years. I mean, now I can finally go to South Pole Disneyland.
I hate liberals. If you are a liberal, do not reply.
With global warming, we can't count on a consisten ground - it might flood.
Yay! Now people can contribute to global warming and measure it at the same time!
All of this money that they're wasting could go to feed all of the starving programmers... ...oh wait, I figured it out now. This is where they're SENDING the starving programmers.
Did they ask the rest of the world, or did they just assume ownership of the south pole??
Hey, once we install that road, can we bring our SUVs down and pollute there too?
That's been, like, my dream since I first owned a vehicle that gets 16 gpm (gallons per mile)!
"The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."
As a taxpayer in the philadelphia area, I need new roads here to get to work more efficiently. Or more accurately, get the other idiot drivers out of my way :-)
Why am I supposed to pay for a road that goes no-where in another country?
Traffic should be pretty light, and I bet I can speed with abandon, but I gotta believe that the tolls will be a bitch!
A man talking sense to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself.
Okay, so they're building a road across Antarctica. Are they going to clear all the snow and ice, and build the road on actual terra firma? Or are they just going to build it on top of ice? If they build it on ice, and in 20-50 years that ice melts down somewhat because of (manmade global warming/natural global warming/my ass), the road would be in fairly rough shape if not impassable. I'm imagining this is going to be a costly project and any roadway that they're going to pour THAT kind of money into they are going to expect a fairly long lifespan from.
Those penguins sure do chew up the bandwidth!
Can't we just give them segways with snow wheels instead?
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. --Edmund Burke
Wouldn't that have some significant problems in structural stability. I mean it's built on an ice shelf. Ice floats. Antarctic ice shelves have been known to dissapear
Sounds like a waste of money to me!
Considering that they own no part of the
southpole, and insted have to lease off
other countrys, one woudl of expected
us Aussies to be doing that, but where too
cheep..
You have 5 Moderator Points!
Which Helpless Linux zealot/MS basher do you want to mod down today?
Now they'll be 0wning me at Quake, in between sexing penguins or whatever they do ;-)
When I am king, you will be first against the wall.
Wonder if they'll have the signs on the highway that say "Last chance for gas - next station 1000km away"
And..how about the poor soul that has to actually WORK at that station!
I believe this is just the right time for Danforth to tell what he saw ....
Life isn't like a box of chocolates. It's more like a jar of jalapenos. What you do today, might burn your ass tomorrow.
A highway to the South Pole?
How many tractors are there, exactly?
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There might finally be a road where I can drive as fast as I want and nobody will care...of course onn that road speeding is probably 30mph...:>
Power Corrupts,Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely, leaving one person(group)in charge is absolutely corrupt.
This reminds me of a story in The Onion's 'Our Dumb Century' book. It was something along the lines of, "US military find last unspoilt place on Earth, blows it to hell."
There was a penguin driving his car down a desert road.
It was a really hot day, and his car is really a really old convertible. Up ahead he saw a small town.
All of a sudden, his hood burst open and oil shot into the air.
He pulled it into the first mechanic he saw in the town and cleaned himself off. The mechanic told him it could be a little while, so he waddled across the street to the ice-cream stand.
He got a dish of vanilla ice-cream, and since he had no arms, just flippers, he had to fling it towards his mouth. Well, after he finished his ice-cream, and was covered with vanilla ice-cream, he waddled across the street back to the mechanic.
The mechanic was looking at the engine and said, "Well, it looks like you blew a seal."
The penguin says, "I did NOT! It's just ice-cream!"
Worst. Sig. Ever.
On a side note, "Both Chile and Argentina have gone to great lengths to make their claims in Antarctica part of their national territory. While there has been no recognition of these claims by any other sovereign state, both countries have great nationalistic pride in these claims. In August of 1973, an Argentine cabinet meeting was held in the area claimed by Argentina. Chile's president Pinochet spent a week in Antarctica in 1977 which caused Argentina to devise the boldest plans for claiming sovereignty. In the fall of 1978, a pregnant Argentine woman was send to live in Antarctica and in Jan. 1979, Emile Marco Palma was the first child born in Antarctica. Following the pattern in colonialism as seen in North America, Emile takes his place in history along side Virginia Dare. The Argentines followed with a wedding in Feb. 1979. Both countries have maintained colonies of civilian dependents living year round at their bases and tourism from bases both in Chile and Argentina has grown significantly in the last decades." So perhaps this means...WAR! Yes, let's fight over a piece of ice.
I hate liberals. If you are a liberal, do not reply.
If there's going to be a permanent presence on the South Pole, this kind of infrastructure is necessary. I worked on a satellite communications system that talked with the NOAA polar-orbit spacecraft. At the poles, you'll see the spacecraft every 90 minutes. Near the equator, you'll only see them 3 times a day for about 10-20 minutes (usable time) per. The polar research stations use the NOAA satellites as a primary communications store-and-forward service, as they can't see the geostationary satellites. Makes communicating with the research stations difficult.
Don't go expecting an asphalt two-lane road. Calling it a "highway" is misleading. A "conditioned ice-road" is more appropriate.
'In the next few weeks the ice road should have crossed the wide expanse of the Ross ice shelf, which permanently covers the ocean, and be approaching the Transantarctic Mountains. The mountains mark the halfway point to the Pole.'
The road is going to be ICE, not pavement. All they are doing is plowint the snow off of a section of the ice shelf.
This was prominently mentioned in Kim Stanley Robinson's Antartica, which is so much alike in theme and characterization ti his Mars trilogy that it can be referred to as "White Mars".
A. Rightmann
how many millions (or billions) of dollars will be spent for this?
...as you would have known if you had RTFA. All they are doing is pushing the snow aside and flattening out the ice. No blasting, no rocks, no pavement, no paint.
Twelve
A pizza of radius z and thickness a has a volume of pi z z a
From the article:
Once completed the road is likely to become a permanent fixture.
Yes, I suspect it might. It's probably not going to melt, and glaciers don't move very fast.
On the bright side, I doubt we'll see road crews lounging around the work sites: the climate will be too cold for that.
(In most parts of the US, given a road crew of N, (N-1) will be standing around watching 1 work.)
I want to drag this out as long as possible. Bring me my protractor.
Okay.. I know nothing about Antarctica, except it's really cold. What natural resources are there? Is there oil hidden deep beneath the ice or something? I imagine that would have to be the only thing down there. Not like there's coal to mine or trees to chop down...
Ah am not a crook! (\(-__-)/)
After seeing this Ice Berg from Ross Shelf I'm not sure thats such a good idea at that location if things keep warming up.
~~ Behold the flying cow with a rail gun! ~~
We ran a story on this topic yesterday over on SciFi Today with quite a few additional information links. A list of ALL of our recent stories is here. You can put SciFi Today Headlines on your Slashdot frontpage by clicking here and putting a checkmark in the SciFi Today box. Check us out!!!
I wonder if we'll see any crunchy granola types chaining themselves to chunks of ice in order to prevent this road from being built. Forget living in trees, to be a true environmentalist, you must haul ass down to the south pole and set up camp right in the way of the tractors.
On the other hand, this also opens up all kinds of jokes about roadworkers and the south pole. Like, how many union guys does it take to build a road to the south pole? A hundred, one to the hold the stop sign (to hold up penguin traffic), 49 to take a hot chocolate break, and 50 to complain to the union rep that it's too cold to work. Better watch out that the crack doesn't get the frostbite!!
All those "penguin crossing the road" jokes.
-- I am Jack's sig line.
"And the road is unlikely to pave the way to exploitation of Antarctic natural resources, as this is banned under the Antarctic Treaty until 2041."
So what exactly are these natural resources?
Do you think you could call AAA if you hit a penguin and run off the road?
It just talks about laying cable, not roadway.
The sad thing is that this 1040 mile fiber link to the South Pole will probably be more reliable than the DSL link to my house.
Of course what can I expect for $50/month.
Wouldn't a railway be better? I believe a two-track railway takes up less space than a 7.3m single carriageway and electric trains cause less pollution (in the vicinity of the railway) than diesel lorries and cars. As well as this, I think the railway can handle more cargo than the road (we wouldn't want to have to widen the road every ten years, would we?).
Of course, we would be able use this new railway to connect the South Pole to the rest of the Americas (at least in theory), allowing cargo to move from the USA to the Pole at up to 80m/s (about 180 miles per hour). Sadly, it doesn't look like the UK will be connected (although given that British trains are not known for rapidity or reliability, this would not be a major loss as there would be no point in vital perishable supplies destined for the Antarctic being held up at Potter's Bar due to a signalling fault). (It also seems that there will be no connection to South Africa.)
From the article: The road could be open to heavy traffic for up to 100 days a year during the austral summer.
This is the last (for the most part) unpolluted place on earth and we are going to be running heavy diesel puking machinery through there. What really worries me is that the treaty banning exploitation of natural resources runs out in another 30 or so years and what will this highway bring? I appreciate the importance of the cosmic ray detector and for other science being performed at the pole, but we should be very careful. Highway building is incredibly destructive.
Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
Since nobody seems to actually read articles:
$12-million project
1600 kilometres
20 days for the inland trip
10 days for the return to the coast (downhill!)
(That's a staggering average speed of 3.33 KPH for the trip to the pole, 6.66 KPH for the trip to the coast)
The traffic will consist of slow-moving convoys of caterpillar tractors, towing sleds with supplies.
The Scott-Amundsen base is only currently accessible by air, which places limits on cargo and relies on good weather. The road could be open to heavy traffic for up to 100 days a year during the austral summer.
I'm going to go back in my box and will think within the limits of my box: MS Sucks Linux Good I read too much Slashdot.
Because it's American, so the sign will read "Last chance for gas - next station 621.5 miles away"
As long as Wilford Brimley doesn't get them, we'll hopefully get to find out what happened to MacReady and Childs.
When it snows and the road is blocked? Mr. Plow of course!
The Scott-Amundsen base is only currently accessible by air, which places limits on cargo and relies on good weather. The road could be open to heavy traffic for up to 100 days a year during the austral summer.
So the road is also limited. And what kind of cargo can a Snow Cat carry that a plain can not? Not much I would think.
The polar base plans three return journeys each summer, says Spindler. The annual capacity of the route would be about a million litres of fuel - roughly the capacity of three Hercules transporter planes that currently supply the base.
So any number of road trips will get 1 Mill Liters of fuel that would take just 3 flights. Sounds more expensive to send by land, especially since you can only travel 1/3 of the time a year. What about the rest of the year.
www.fotoforay.com
Except for maybe the outer few miles, it's completely safe. The earth won't warm that much, and the shelf will only melt at the edges (where it's within a degree or so of 0C now). Within, there's about no chance. The ice in that shelf is *incredibly* old - that's why they take ice cores from it to get a picture of the atmosphere tens of thousande of years ago.
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
RrrrrrrOOOOOAAAAD TRIP!
Oh yeah.
C'mon, people, it's NOT THAT HARD to click on a link and read for a few minutes. This is not a "road" as we understand them. Basically, they will clear a path on the ice so it is free from snow and debris, and fill in any crevices, etc., with (presumably) ice, etc. As some have suggested, no, the road will not be dug down and laid on terra ferma. They would have to dig hundreds of feet to do that. Basically, they'll take big bulldozers and clear the way for large caterpillar-type vehicles to carry fuel and supplies. Now, everything must be brought in by air, and that's gotta be expensive!
It pretty clearly states that the road is to be built over ice, and that one of the major issues is going to be verifying that no crevasses, ice shifts, etc, have occurred. Since the Antarctic continent is buried in ice sheets that are kilometers thick, clearing away the ice doesn't seem like a practical option. Sean
I read the wrong article.
Hmm...can I just go ice skating on it instead? Sounds a lot more fun than driving there.
"so, factor in you're going to be going over water, which is frozen and melting?"
... antartica is solid land and some ice at the coast at winter, but mostly solid land.
No
In adition clearing some ice and flattening shouldn't be that expencive, $12 millions the article says.
Look a monkey!
It's going to cost $12 million for a 1600km back-country road. It's not a high speed 6 lane super highway. No asphalt. No lines. It's a compressed snow/ice road that they are smoothing out and filling in crevices.
While I have not ever gone to the south pole, pictures I've seen indicate that it is pretty much frozen year round. I don't think that they are going to have to worry a whole lot about melting ice/snow in the imediate future.
The National Science Foundation is funding the entire road project...not the US Government directly. Yes the NSF is funded by the government, but I'd imagine that it has a regular line-item entry on the fiscal budget each year so it really isn't anything extra. I'd rather they build this road then have any polition go on a "fact-finding" junket.
Also, the road is justified. They are starting research at the south pole (Ice Cube Project) that requires heavy equipment to be brought in. Currently the only way to get their is by air, which places limits on the weight of cargo and they have to have clear skies. This road will help with both of those limitations.
Do we reallly want to build a highway that cuts through the Mountains of Madness? I mean, do we really want to make it that much easier for the Shoggoths to get out of there and move to a warmer climate?
This is about the dumbest thing I have ever seen here, and that is saying a lot. A 6-lane highway in Antarctica? Rocks? Pavement? Paint? Good grief.
Patrick Doyle
I mod down every jackass who puts his moderation policy in his sig. Oh, wait a sec....
I mean , 1600km is a LONG distance to drive without somewhere to pull in an have some yummy burger. And just think how all that tossed out old food will help keep the penguins fed in the cold winters. And how about a few Holiday Inns while they're at it? I mean who *really* wants to sleep in a Snowcat with a dozen other smelly outward bound types if you can have the luxury of dralon sheets and cable TV? Seriously , though , hasn't anyone noticed the sad irony of a road being drive through the last untainted wilderness on earth to serve scientists whose sole purpose is to measure the bad effects man is having on the enviroment? What the hell are they thinking??
I'd like to be the plow man for that road!
all i see are 1's and 0's
The slashdot summary is oddly misleading, I think there would be a lot fewer 'wasted tax dollars' complaints if it was written this way round:
Plane for One Kilometer Cube Neutrino Telescope Goes Ahead
IceCube is a one-cubic-kilometer international high-energy neutrino observatory, located deep under the ice at the south pole, where the effects of the eath's magnetic fields will inferfere less with the observations.
Because the cost of flying all the necessary materials in by air is prohibitive, $12m of the $204m budget will be spent on pushing some ice out of the way so that the components can travel overland.
A pizza of radius z and thickness a has a volume of pi z z a
i think a highway costs somethign insane like $250,000 a foot for a 6 lane highway
Insightful my ass. '[T]he National Science Foundation in Virginia... is funding the $12-million project.' This ain't an American Thru-way, it's a one-lane ice road. A highway.
While they're at it why not pave the rest of the earth
thehun is also making preparations, for the massive increase in traffic expected when access to pr0n finally arives for these lonely, stranded scientists.
I used to have a good sig...
Who in thier right mind could sit cramed into a tractor or whatever for 30 days? Let alone in the middle of frozen hell, I forsee maddness setting in around the 7th day of the trip. But for all its worth I guess the maddness already set in before they came up with this idea in the first place eh?
First the moon and now the south pole.
Why does americans need to drive cars everywhere.. ?
Now it's possible to run out of gas in south pole. Wow...How long till McDonalds opens up? Maybe worlds biggest snoball/snoman could be an attraction.
It's not going to be open to independent travellers! That sucks! Before I read the article I was about to ask for a couple weeks off to go on a really long road trip too.
Come on man! Read some Lovecraft before you go toying with reality! The Elders await...
What do you be that there's something terribly secret down there that needs $250 million to develop. These weird "scientific explorations" are often just fascades for weird political operations. The Glomar Challenger, after all, was searching for Russian subs not manganese nodules or whatever the cover story said.
no pavement?!? Where will the pedestrians walk?
This is bad, sad news. Antarctica is one of the last remaining great wilderness areas on the planet and they want to build a fucking highway? There must surely be other ways to accomplish this without impacting the environment so much?
"Because it's there." - George Mallory, when asked why he wanted to climb Mt Everest, March 18, 1923 (New York Times)
I just read an article that talks about the state of roads and bridges in Michigan. The article states, "Overall, the cost of repairing and maintaining southeast Michigan's roads, bridges, sewers, and water systems will exceed the money available to do the job by $60 billion" over the next quarter-century, the suburban alliance estimates. This is just in the State of Michigan alone. Maybe we should take care of our own country first before taking on a project like that? Oh, and who's footing the bill for this highway?
Of course he didn't read the article, because if he had he would never have posted his idiotic opinion. It's also worth nothing, that other moron moderated his post to insightful obviously didn't read the article either. Where's that meta-moderator link...
"I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar."
-Hoban Washburn
"we're on the road to nowhere........"
Now penguins can post to slashdot, but will we notice the difference?
--Stupid Sig Here--
just think, in about 75 million years, Antarctica will have started moving away from the pole and headed back up north into warmer waters again. These guys are just getting a head start on the tourism trade with an early lead on Burger Kings and Gas Stations (McDonalds can't afford a new store right now). Heck, you can probably put a billboard on there for pennies a day! You won't get THAT price when the average temperature is 60deg again...
"But remember, most lynch mobs aren't this nice." (H.Simpson)
-- Joe
I can see this as being a good thing. For one I don't think this will lead to some kind of tourist attraction adding a bunch of vehicles and pollution. This is Antarctica we're talking about, nothing to see. The south pole is home to my interesting scientific experiments, whether it be astronomy related since the view into space from there I would imagine to be much clearer of radio signals and terrestrial light. They mentioned studying neutrinos and what little I know of this area, terrestrial radio noise plays a factor.
It's not like they are going to be building a 6 lane highway. Probably won't be much than a gravel back road.
Understanding is a three-edged sword. -- Kosh Naranek
they are not going to lay a highway, all they are going to do is smooth out some ice and snow and create a flat path without big snow drifts or crevases in the ice, also, the road is being funded by an american science institute so it would only make sense to go from mcmurdo to scott-admunson
Wait, they are laying a $250 million dollar fiber? Only the US would deploy fiber to the curb first to the South Pole.
Victory is gained, not in knowing your opponents next move, but in preempting them.
home to my interesting scientific experiments
Should be...
home to many interesting scientific experiments
Understanding is a three-edged sword. -- Kosh Naranek
i've been waiting for this road for a long time. we need a hardpack road to get the rickover reactors in place. we need the rickovers to melt the ice and run the pumps so that we can get down to bedrock. then, we can finally get the HE charges going and load all the rock into the grinders. gold gold gold!!! oh, and the rickovers will help us pump the cyanide water from the refinement process out too! yeeha! suck my grits hippie boy! i'll buy myself a nature preserve with the profits and post "KEEP OUT YOU HIPPIE FREAK" signs all around it!! woohoo!
This reminded me of the movie 'Evolutions' that I saw for the first time last night.
Whenever the government(s) decide they need something now- it is done NOW. I mean, buildings, roads, weapons, you name it, it is done.
But...whenever the government does a public work - not critical - they drag ass and feet on it until eventually, and over budget, the project is completed, and in need of repair.
Imagine Hoover Dam..would it be done early and under budget if built in 2003? Nope.
This road will be a huge money pit. As I recall, most of Antarctica is comprised of ice, snow and not rock and dirt. So...if things warm up, the road goes to shit, and the project is a waste. Stupid! Why not go for a light rail while they are at it? Why not build a few skyscrapers on the ice shelves, too?
Spend the money on our economy, not Antarctica's- which at the moment, I am sure is below $1.
A rest stop with a Stuckeys?
I can see it now... ``Say that sign up ahead says `Exit 1A McMurdo' This is our turn. Better get into the right lane.''
Or maybe ``Anyone got change for the tolls? Otherwise I have break a five.''
(Oh you can tell it's Friday, eh?)
CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
$12 million for this Antarctic highway is an astronomically (heh) better investment than $45 billion or whatever it's supposed to be for a manned Mars mission.
You'd think they'd build a MAGLEV or other high speed train. I'd think it's great weather for superconductors down there. ;-)
"Da ist ein Technölüst in mein Unterpanten!"
I know a guy who is a scientist who spends the 'summer' at the pole doing research. We have discussed this, Having a road will make it a lot cheaper and eaiser to supply/support the people down there. There is really a finite amount of time you can get things in by plane, the weather just doesn't permit it.
;)
The thing i still don't understand is that the glaciers there move and flow. The very best they canhope to accomplish is a standoff agsint the shifting landscape. But rember its very cold and quite *dry* down there. maintaing the roasd is gonna be intresting. as long as they dont put salt down on it
rtft - the title of the article is "South Pole to Get Highway"
Convoys of tractors will be the only traffic on the road, bringing fuel and heavy equipment to the South Pole ...Until some race promoter comes up with the idea of the "Trans-Antarctic Rally 2XXX". Sounds like a good way to get funding for projects there.
>> Practice Safe Hex
Eclectic beats from Leeds, UK
handmadehands.co.uk
Oh, that's right, Allende was a democratically elected _socialist_ president. Better dead then red, and if they try to take our ice, well, they know what to expect..
The south pole, one of the most remote places in the world is getting a fiber optic connection? I live out in the country and the best I can hope for is a 32kbps connection on my v.92 modem. I always read about last mile possibilities but why are they tested in places that aren't last mile? J
Abiit, excessit, evasit, erupit.
They're actually searching for the second Earth stargate.
They're pointedly attempting to avoid waking the Elders!
Film at 11.
I wonder why they decided to go with a physical cable, instead of RF transmission with repeaters?
Using a cable in this situation has many inherent problems, not the least of which is the strain put on the cable as the ice moves under it. Using RF towers would eliminate that problem. Why would they choose to do it this way? Politics? Ice storms?
So, will there be a McDonalds?
PAVE THE PLANET
Fucking bullshit. You call this progress?
Somedays I'm ashamed to be human.
because I have been enjoined by this Holy Office to abandon the false opinion which maintains that the Sun is the centre
...but wait until global warming makes Antartica the only comfortable place to live! Then that highway will look like the 405 at 4pm on a weekday....
"Just because you're a genius doesn't make you a smart guy!" -- Narrator, Powerpuff Girls
A very nice comic takes place in a similar highway across the North Pole (Gipsy by Marini) :
& ie =UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=c3C+gipsy
The C3C : The Cirumpolar 3-Continental.
While the northern hemisphere, undergoing a small ice age, was stating its most northern regions getting colder every year, the south hemisphere was facing the terrible consequences of a huge whole southern of the ozone layer.
Governments had to resign themselves to limitating strongly the world air traffic, fearing that entire populations would be decimated by skin cancer. In this context of great climatic and environmental anxiety that was born the Circumpolar 3-Continental (C3C), an immense highway able to serve all 3 continents - Eurasia, Africa and America - and to replace air freight by road freight.
The C3C bypasses the arctic ocean and joins Paris to New York, via terrestrian road with connexions to Beijing and Rio of Janeiro. The three transsiberian branches of the Highway join in Zigansk, on the polar circle, in the heart of Siberia, left to anarchy and hunger for more than ten years.
Look here for some images
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient
My 2 cents...
"pavement" means the actual road surface in the USA.
"pavement" means the sidewalk (where pedestrians walk) in the UK
Who says advertisements cant be +4, Informative???
A long time ago I knew someone who spent a winter at Scott Base which is the New Zealand base close to the US base at McMurdo. A funny thing he told me was that the biggest machine the americans had there was a diesel powered ice making machine for the bar.
He also commented on how Scott Base was kept at 40 something deg F inside. People soon acclimatised to it. McMurdo was about 80F.
Awesome!! Now we have somewhere new to build more strip malls!!!
Does not ice move around? If so, how can a road withstand such movements? Snowmobiles arent a better way for moving around instead of cars? Why? Why? Why?
Cool!
I wonder how much the average Zamboni driver would get paid to drive down to the south pole and back to flatten out the ice road...
That's a lotta clams to connect to the net. I wonder how many contractors they had bid for the job? For 5 mil and a few geeks I'd expect to see a 802.11.x connection to span the globe, encode packets on laser, or do something fantastically cool, heh and also be reasonably priced. No wonder our economy is in the toilet. IMHO $262 million could be spent much more wisely. But just think of all the new jobs it'll generate for ice road construction engineers!
You can't park a geosynchronous satellite over the South Pole. Geosynchronous orbits are physically possible only over roughly equatorial sites.
All major communications satellites (other than Iridium & it's cousins) are geosynchronous. If you are in the Northern Hemisphere, go out and look at some satellite dishes... they all point roughly south, to points over the equator. From the Southern Hemisphere, they all point north.
By the way, I'd appreciate it if you didn't bash NASA, because you don't seem to know shit about space. Where geosynchronous satellites are parked is one of the first things anybody learns about spacecraft. Your comment indicates that you are completely uneducated about space exploration, and only know the most trivial things from CNN and Slashdot headlines. So, I don't think that you are qualified to evaluate whether NASA has been effectively spending money or not.
Sorry, no punch line. I just like being able to ask that question now.
Bush should have died, not Reagan -- Morrissey
Morrissey rides a cockhorse -- The Warlock Pinchers
Things went really well last time Argentina went to war due to an international territorial dispute.
I live in Canada and have spent time way up north in Rankin Inlet, Nunavut. Now there are actual people living there, working, etc, (close to 100,000 in all of Nunavut) and there are no roads in/out of there.
;)
A plane ticket from Winnipeg to Rankin Inlet is $1400 at the least (as compared with a ticket from Winnipeg to Vancouver - same distance - $99 most days). This is BECAUSE there are no roads, and flying is the only way to get there.
If I was American, I would wholeheartedly oppose this utter waste of taxpayer's money.
PS: I'm not a coward, I just don't feel like registering
Bridge ices before... aw heck...
Yeah, and how long until the first Starbucks shows up on the transantarctic?
"Okay, I'll have an iced cappuccino, an iced tea and an iced iced mocha..."
:eof
Several kilometers in places, actually. Not to mention most of the road is actually on the Ross Ice Shelf, which floats on the ocean. I doubt they'd want to dig through that.
Constitutionally Correct
It would run from the South Pole to Concordia, a permanently-manned French station in a region called Dome C.
That's not the same direction as this traverse.
This will make it MUCH easier for scientists, CIA agents, etc., to get to and from the immense alien spaceship buried there.
I'd rather annex Saudi Arabia and take their oil than try to hunt for it under a mile or two of ice. :) Even if exploration is successful, drilling and transportion would probably be prohibitively expensive. (The problems would be very differnt from those faced by drilling in Alaska or off shore.)
If oil is detect in one of the rare ice-less parts of Antarctica, it might be much easier to exploit.
(As far as I can tell, though, noone is trying to get oil from there, and the Antartica treaty is holding well.)
2 things...
First off, snowmobiles are among the HIGHEST vehicle poluters on the market, so an SUV would be an IMPROVEMENT.
Second, Antarctica is one of the very-useful and practical places where an SUV really would come in handy. Seriously, you expect someone to cross that area in a Camry? It's not likely they'd drive a Naviagator down there, and more likely they'd have a Dodge pickup truck or something.
Just keep an eye out for ice!
... another addition to George W(anker) Bush's new growing American Reich, whoops I mean Empire, whoops I mean... Oh fsck it.
What's really sad is that the South Pole will get a new highway and broadband before I get broadband, and before the Springfield Interchange is finished.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
Now I can visit Santa Clauses Evil Twin Brother, and get my evil gifts for all my pernicious evil schemes *Dr. Evil Laugh* Mwa hahaahaha...Mwahhaaaaaaaa..mwahhaaa...*/Dr. Evil Laugh*
Who owns the South Pole? Anyone? Or is the continent divided into a number of colonial regions?
But of all the places to build a highway...who is going to clear/maintain it? I imagine there is a little bit of blowing snow at the South Pole, and I for one would not want to drive in zero visibility on a friggin iceberg.
Ahh, the researchers are just getting all pissy because they have too high a ping to join in on the really good CT action:
"Guard the door!"
"With what?"
"Your sniper rifle!"
"MY PING IS 14,275! I can walk faster than that!"
"Get Washington on the phone..."
(Pardon me if this has been asked already)
no pavement?!? Where will the pedestrians walk?
Given that the road trains will be going something like 5 mph, I think the pedestrians would have plenty of time to get out of the way.
Downmodding is the refuge of the weak. Don't downmod, make a better argument!
Antarctica is jointly managed by several countries. The purpose of this "road" is to move scientific equipment to the research station that cannot be moved by C-130. See the below links, we are building a telescope.
t ml
The cost of any commercial interest in antartica would far exceed the gain. Why on earth would the USA dig for coal, minerals, etc. at the south pole when we can get it cheaper elsewhere?
See:
http://www.wisconline.com/UWMadisonNews/IceCube.h
or
http://icecube.wisc.edu/
Brought to you by the following countries:
USA, Belgium, Germany, Japan, Sweden.
Flame if you must,
Enjoy.
It's just the normal noises in here.
Given that there are very strict rules for handling human impact in Antarctica, isn't this road, which will draw even more tourists and researchers, cause a real logistical nightmare? It's hard enough to haul the trash generated from shore, but if you start carrying truckloads of junk to the pole itself... you have to truck it out too. That's the trash collection job to end all trash collection jobs. From the McMurdo Station website for incoming Antarctic visitors:
WASTE MANAGEMENT
In 1990, McMurdo Station developed and implemented its first formal recycling program. Since then, Waste Management has continuously upgraded the program to maximize recycling efforts. During the 1993-94 season, the USAP recycled 70% of hazardous and non-hazardous waste. The program stands as a model for other communities and is a point of pride for the USAP community.
Except for human waste, all waste generated by the USAP is removed from Antarctica and returned to the United States for disposal. Because of strict Federal and State regulations on this process, it is crucial that waste be handled effectively.
The key to McMurdo's recycling program is careful source segregation: as careless separation of waste in McMurdo can result in material being unfit for recycling, it is everyone's responsibility to separate waste effectively. You will be briefed on the details of McMurdo's recycling program. Please be sure you gain a thorough understanding of your part in the recycling process; make sure your questions are answered. With a little practice, you'll find the separation of waste materials into a myriad of containers will become second nature--a process you expect to continue when you return to the world.
... and who gets to enforce it? - AHP (Antarctic Highway Patrol)?
what happened in "Antarctica" by Kim Stanley Robinson.
True genius is grasping a situation like a peice of fruit, and peircing it just right so that it drains dry.
Great, now the penguins can send email and download penguin porn.
I call dibs on driving the the zamboni! (sp?)
See? Some people do ask to be slashdotted!
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
Antarctica is actually a desert, with little annual accumulation.
That's certainly true of the South Pole area itself, but from what I've read the edges of the continent get more than their fair share of snow. Reading the account of the Ross Sea party in Shackleton's book it certainly seemed like it snows there all the time!
But you're right, I find, that the problem at the South Pole station isn't new snow falling; it's the drifts of existing snow that buried the dome.
Holy crap - this is obviously all a cover for the gigantic base they are *really* building to cooperate with the new round of aliens in preparation for the takeover of all human life forms in 2012...it's all true, the fake moon landing, "Signs", the William Shatner interview, quick, run for the hills folks!
There is really a finite amount of time you can get things in by plane, the weather just doesn't permit it
So with this road, they'll have infinite time?!?!
A road so they can order pizza and mountain dew at thier all night (that would be what, 6 months in antartica) lan party! A nice fat $250m pipe to the net for excellent ping times. The ultmiate LPB on your tax dollars.
Honestly what else could you do besides a lan party down there, scoop up penguin shit?
Because Slashdot titles are always accurate representation of the facts contained within the article. Sometimes I think it is better to ignore everything it says and just to find the link and click on it. The summaries are 65% innaccurate and 34% Flamebait. The last 1% is just typos.
In case this wasn't clear this is an ice highway no concrete or other materials will be used.
imagine how nicely you could Over Clock a pc in the temps of the south pole, all they need is an Wal-mart and im there!
For The Best Jazz/Hip-hop fusion > COlD DUCK
The WHOLE POINT of putting a scientific base in the south pole is to access data you only find in remote places that are not affected by human activity (fresh ice that "keeps samples" of the earth's atmosphere in the air bubbles, etc etc). So if they start to trash the south pole with a road, heavy machinery (diesel engines) to build it and more supplies for the scientists to consume, then the whole point of the camp disappears. Otherwise, well, they'd just have set it up in New Jersey or something... But well; I guess they have a point with this fiber-optic internet connection stuff there: more porn for those solitary, frustrated south-pole-scientists! Yay!
Hello! I'm a disaster waiting to happen!
You know, if you had actually bothered to read the article, you'd see that they're not so much building what we would think of as a "road", just flattening out some ice, filling some crevasses, etc. The environmental impact of this is nil... even environmentalist groups familiar with the plan think so.
Of course, I really can't blame you, given the ridiculous headline about a "highway" being constructed.
I had no idea...
activestudios web design
...is $250M in crucifixes to surround the South Pole and contain that blight on the world - Anti-Santa!
...but it's being eaten...by some...Linux or something...
I don't think that "science" is an overriding reason to destroy one of the Earth's last untampered ecosystems. Sure, it's only a highway, but a constant stream of bulldozers can certainly disrupt that region's fragile ecosystem. And once we build a highway, what is next? Hotels? Restaurants? Casinos? We should leave well enough alone, before there are no reminders left of what we have lost in the name of technology and progress.
Love the article's ending:
"And the road is unlikely to *pave* the way to exploitation of Antarctic natural resources, as this is banned under the Antarctic Treaty until 2041."
I am, and always will be, an idiot. Karma: Coma (mostly effected by
Costs are probably higher in Antarctica, but in Alaska the average ice road costs about $40K/mile.
Chile has Capitan Arturo Prat, General Bernardo O'Higgins, Presidente Eduardo Frei Montalva, and Profesor Julio Escudero as winter bases.
We also have Las Estrellas Village, complete with a School and other services.
List of winter bases in Antarctica, per country (sorry, country names are in Spanish, help yourself)
And many countries have summer bases too, which aren't listed.
--- Sueños del Sur - a webcomic about four young siblings
Highway to Hell??
Go ahead, mod me down...
100% Insightful
[snip]
Once completed the road is likely to become a permanent fixture
[snip]
Two words: Global Warming
[snip]
And the road is unlikely to pave the way to exploitation of Antarctic natural resources, as this is banned under the Antarctic Treaty until 2041
[snip]
The day equipment is moved to the Antarctic to drill for resources is the day I become an eco-activist.
Anonymous
(can anyone truely say that these days?)
So, you open a McD's franchise at the South Pole once the new "highway" is done and the tourists start rolling in.
"What a wise investment," you think to yourself. "Not only do I get all the usual perks of running a McDonalds... but I can use the old grease as a building material!"
The road is entirely inside New Zealand territory, which makes it New Zeland property and of course it's creation must come with New Zealand approval.
Given New Zealand's extreme commitment to protecting the environment, this road must have a very low environmental impact, or has the Kiwi government been induced to look the other way?
"It if was easy to do, we'd find someone cheaper than you to do it."
n/t
In other news, the first penguin road kill cases have been reported at mile markers 1-300. Whoops splat.
Guess its better than a moose.
I recently started working at a .gov establishment where this has been discussed *only* in response to numerous press queries recently (the place I'm working at is actively engaged in research in the Antarctic). The "highway" under discussion is the same as the ice runways built to land aircraft -- which means we're not talking 3 lanes each way, complete with asphalt and McDonalds. It's a way to get equipment to the pole without necessarily needing expensive aircraft. It doesn't even deserve to be called a highway, it's just a smooth piece of ice and it may not even be constructed.
It has not been covered in ice throughout geologic time.
It's virtually certain there are sedimentary basins for hydrocarbons, and "hard rocks" for metals.
All of this is from geo 1 level knowledge. I have not personally worked on Antarctica, although many geologists have, and their publications should be in the open literature.
If it weren't for the treaty, IMHO, there would already be operating oil fields on or offshore Antarctica.
(And slashdotters are worried about a buldozed ice road doing things to the environment?)
How's the public transporation infrastructure in Philadelphia area? Don't they have commuter rail lines? I've seen pictures of the streetcars (I mean trolleys -- I mean light rail!) in the city, there must be something for the poor suburban troglodytes!
Retro rap?
I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
Betcha the environmentalists are going to shit a brick. Of course, someone ought to make sure they clean up after the environmentalists do that sort of thing.
Everyone whose seen Batman knows that the Penguins are dangerous! Bring out the Stealth bombers. Fire! Bomb! Pillage! Let Loose the Hounds of WAR!
This is my sig.
wouldn't it be cheaper to launch a satellite, or com derigible, microwave tower etc.?
Then, yes, the road is necessary. If you understand the research and observations that take place there, then you know that very useful environmental research is part of what they do. If you want to learn more, then try the links here , here, here, here and here.
Your question actually prompted me to find out more about the south pole research. Thanks!
Kindness is the language which the deaf can hear and the blind can see. - Mark Twain
nobody mentioned the really crucial point of this
issue: on which side of the road will these lorries
be driving? I believe there is already some kind
of road between the British and US bases there and
the issue never was agreed upon...
I mean, I thought we had it bad around here for getting potholes fixed before, now the South Pole highway will probably take priority over us too!
Probably so the Death + X copyright limit just re-starts, innit?
Free as in mason.
Wonderful! Now we can have an Anticlaus theme park at the South Pole. Anticlaus - you know. This is the SOUTH pole we're talking about, isn't it?
"Everything works if you let it" - The Flying Mouse
what's the motivation for building this, it must cost a phenomenal amount? What's the benefit to the military of building this?
SURELY NOT!!!!!
THe americans will only start doing what the russians have been doing for 40 years to reach Vostok (I have a picture here showing the route itself), and what the french have been doing for 13 years to reach Dome C / Concordia.
The only difference is that until now the americans were rich enough to carry everything by plane and new experiments like the IceCube will require much more weight. Other countries not as rich have much more experience doing those 'traverses'. The term ice route is misleading, as other posters have pointed out. The route is nothing more than a list of GPS waypoint for reuse every year (it's easier to use the same track every year as the terrain is fairly soft outside of them).
Non-Linux Penguins ?