There's a VERY good chance of them going after Xing.
I mentioned this in a post to the previous DVD CCA fiasco article:
If the CCA can claim that "irreparable harm" was done by the CCA's slipup, they can REALLY nail Xing. (In what way, I'm not sure... Didn't get that far in my discussion with my dad.)
Otherwise, they can only claim that $X in damages were done, and then Xing owes them $X.
This whole thing may just be the CCA's way of getting incontrivertible proof that the damage caused by Xing's negligence was "irreparable" - whether the CCA loses this case or not.
If they lose the case, the secret is still out, and the CCA can show that they tried to repair the "damage" and were unable to.
If they win the case, we all know that the secret will be out anyway. Their "irreparable damage" case will be even stronger, although I don't think it needs to be.
I had a long discussion with my dad on this subject, who works in the field of intellectual property. (Not a patent lawyer, but he deals closely with them and knows the laws.)
With respect to reverse engineering: Any reverse engineering of something obtained legally is legal, UNLESS you sign or otherwsie accept a contract saying you will not do so. Most likely the Xing player had such a clause in its shrinkwrap license.
Hence, the authors of DeCSS's actions were illegal.
Hence, anything resulting from their actions is tainted.
Still, the CCA's strongest case is against Xing for violation of an NDA. Two problems with this: Xing doesn't have much money, for one.
The second is that the law covers measurable damages (Xing pays $x, where x is the amount of damage the release of the information did.), AND it covers what are called "irreparable damages" - As to what they can do to Xing if Xing is found to have caused irreparable damage, I don't know. But if the CCA shows DeCSS as an example of Xing causing such damage (CCA tried to repair it with this order and it didn't work), Xing's ass is grass.
As to the naming of foreign nationals in the suit: It is legal. You can sue someone in absentia for breaking one of your laws. There may not be anything you can do to punish said person, but you can do it. (Note: Your'e toast if you lose such a case and later set foot in the States. Of course, the CCA probably won't notice your entry for a case like this.)
How to get DVD under Linux, if all the information is legally tainted, then?
It depends on the wording of the CSS NDAs. NDAs often have a clause that disclosure is allowed once the information becomes public knowledge, even if the existing knowledge is tainted. So there's a chance that another company can legally release CSS information now. (In fact, Creative may have done this. I know their Dxr2 drivers had some CSS-related files - did these include the full algorithm, and did they originate in any way from DeCSS? I'm pretty sure the Dxr2 does CSS in software...)
Don't blame you. That's the nice thing of UT having an open-source renderer - while people might not see a need for major changes now, who knows what's two years down the road.:)
I definately agree on the source release issue. I've read enough about the 3Dfx problems and the solutions that even I could probably fix the problem. If someone else hasn't done it, I will once I get back to my good 'ole cable modem.:)
Hmm... Maybe the retail version DID improve things over the demo...
Well, it'll be another week or more before I have access to a store that allows returns of opened software in cas UT retail is as disappointing as the demo.
Even w/o the policy, it's where I'd buy my games - 20% employee discounts rock.:) (Campus Store)
Might as well clarify that statment - I was mainly referring to sales to Linux fans who pay attention to how a company treats them and WILL take philosphy into consideration when making purchasing decisions.
I agree with you on most of your points.
Quake 3: Kickass engine, both graphically and network-wise. Cheesy artwork, levels, etc.
UT (at least the demo) Graphically close to Q3. Networking code blows. (Again, I'd hate to see internet play of the original Unreal if UT's code is so vastly improved...) The gameplay of UT demo was amazing in theory as far as weapons/rules/etc, and would have gotten me completely addicted had the networking code not been absolutely horrendous compared to QuakeN where N=1,2, or 3.
In the long run, Q3 is better. Bad levels/sounds/artwork are easily fixed by mod authors. The serious engine deficiencies of UT are not.
IMHO Quake2 was id's pinnacle with respect to artwork and sound effects contributing to a rich environment. But I never liked the multiplayer that much.
QuakeWorld is the king of multiplayer, although Q3 is pretty good. UT would be a killer app if it had QW's netcode. (Some have argued that QW netcode is even better than Q2/Q3 - I'm inclined to agree with them at least somewhat...)
Is there any significant difference between the UT demo and the full version? The changelogs Epic has on their site don't indicate any vast improvements in networking code between v.348 (demo) and 400 (retail)
a) I rarely get less than 200 ping over even a cable modem, and i often have that rise to 500+. It's easy to get sub-50ms pings with Q3.
b) Before you say that Unreal measures ping differently (it probably does) - I get better netplay with a 300-400 ms ping on QuakeWorld than with 150 ping playing UT demo.
Lag-jumping is evil. (Specifically, you move, only to *poof* back to your starting spot over and over again.)
I'd buy the full version of UT to see if netcode was improved if I could find a store around here that accepts returns of opened software.
Unreal's "mod" code has (I think) always been out since day one. It's some sort of scripting language (UnrealScript?)
They've one-upped id here, at least slightly, in terms of what they've released in their engine. id did NOT release their renderers and audio libraries.
Of course, UT's network code is what needs improvement the most, as I mentioned in a previous post. (If this is "vastly improved", then the original Unreal must've been horrific!) - that wasn't released.:(
Don't take this as saying that I don't support id at all - They've got a LONG history of doing this, while Epic is probably only doing this because they have to match id or UT will be blown out of the water by Q3.
I'm definately buying Q3, and after this development, I'm reconsidering UT.
I have to agree... Still, it's actually a slightly better job than ID has done. (i.e. releasing portions of the engine itself, beyond the gameplay mod-author-food code)
I'd have gone out and bought UT if they'd released the source to their networking code - now THAT needs some serious improvement! (It blows chunkss compared to even the original Quake 1 - I get better gameplay over a modem with Q1 than I do with UT on a cable modem!)
Now I would LOVE to see this happen with other companies. (c'mon - you KNOW you want to play Wing Commander on Linux, even the original one!:) Even though it probably WOULD run under Dosemu...
But the renderers and audio portions are definately one thing that stands to benefit a lot from open source... Even if there aren't serious bugs, there's the issue of what happens when new rendering and audio APIs, etc. come out. Note that the original GLQuake was unfortunately quite 3Dfx-specific, to the point where using it with a standard GL driver was a ROYAL pain in the ass. That reminds me, have to download the new code.:)
One: Used LCD projector. Came within a week. Admittedly, this was back in October (early present - couldn't pass up the great deal I got, convinced the parents of that.:)
Two: My parents ordered two cell phone accessories for me on Monday or Tuesday (can't remember exactly - Think it was Tues.) - they're already here. We weren't expecting them until next week. (BTW, these were from www.getcheap.com - Their selection isn't so hot, but their prices are VERY good.)
Three: OmniRemote IR module/software from Pacific Neotek. Not here yet, but it wasn't expected due to the late order (same as the cell phone accessories)
If only handsfree kits for the LGC-330/BAM-330 cell phone existed...
I can see why this got flamebait... I made one phrase kinda unclear.
Should read: If AT&T used the TOC protocol, AOL is in the wrong, blah blah. If AT&T used OSCAR, they deserve what's happening. ("They" was pretty ambiguous in my post...)
I think a lot of people have forgotten this, but there are actually TWO AIM protocols that can communicate with each other.
OSCAR is the original AIM protocol, and is mostly binary. The official AIM clients use it, and I believe so did MS Mess.
Then there's TOC - A trimmed-down (sort-of) version of OSCAR that uses almost all ASCII - it was designed to be easy to write third-party clients for. TOC clients include TiK, TnT, gAIM, and a few others. The TOC protocol and TiK clients were GPLed by AOL at some point in time. (Before which they had a free license that was quite nice, amazing for AOL at the time.)
If AT&T used the TOC protocol, AOL is heavily in the wrong on this one for blocking clients on a protocol that they opened. If they used OSCAR when TOC was available like MS did, then they deserve to get nailed.
Also, AOL's actions regarding the TiK/TOC pages are definately underhanded. AOL has simply removed the pages without any explanation, while leaving the TOC servers running fine and the TICTOC mailing lists active with no explanation. No one can get any sort of answer from AOL.
Immediately after the MS Mess incident was resolved, the TiK page reappeared briefly, announcing TiK 1.0 in early December, but then it disappeared again. (Before the AT&T thing...)
But their management is dumber than your average company. I sell computers at the campus store here, and there's only ONE reason why I tend to push people heavily towards PCs - Macs ar 1.5 times as much as an equivalent PC or more. (Even you yourself admit to them being overpriced.) Apple is just way too greedy, and they're too stupid to realize that their greed is pushing people to PCs. Apple could do REALLY well if they'd only stop shooting themselves in the foot.
(Side note: Powerbooks/iBooks ARE competitive in price with PC laptops. iMacs would be if they weren't so nonupgradable. Towers can't come close.)
Yeah... And what about that F-18 that died at midnight? They ran "thousands of simulations", I'd be shocked if they avoided something as simple as changing the clock on an F-18 to see if it would die.
And "the emissions sensors might be misreporting the date" - Umm, emissions sensors don't report the date, they have no need to. They report what they're supposed to be sensing, nothing more.
There are no taxes on "data" CD-R drives/discs, as PC equipment does not fall under the AHRA. (Despite the fact that "data" drives work great for audio.)
There are "music-only" CD-R devices, which will only write to a CD marked as "taxed for music use" - This media is EXPENSIVE.
Well, one of the ACs mentioned this earlier, but your post seems to contradict itself:
"Uranium by itself is no big whoop." - But it is still radioactive. So you're saying here that not all radioactive substances are a big deal.
Then you say that fusion will create radioactive byproducts and hence is as dangerous as fission - Yes, it will, but as far as I know, all of those byproducts are even less dangerous than uranium. Either they have minimal radioactivity, or have extremely short half-lives. Either way, the waste disposal problem is nowhere near as bad as for fission waste. In the case of short-lived materials, it may be "cool" by the time you can even remove it from the reactor.
Remember their Voodoo Rush boards? Those sucked so much that it killed the Hercules name for me. Horrendous drivers that crashed all the time, and screwed up the display when it didn't crash, and blatant lies on the box about NT support. I bought one and returned it for a Monster 3D within days. I kept the Monster until last semester when I bought a TNT.
As to Gateway - I don't know about ther "Performance", etc. series, but the E-series (slightly more expensive, but cheaper than Dell OptiPlexes by a long shot) are REALLY nice systems with the exception of the fact that your video card choices are ATI or no card at all. Especially the E-4200s.
I work at the Cornell Campus Store selling computers, we carry Gateway, Dell, Compaq, IBM, and Toshiba (laptops only.) We sell far more Gateways than all other systems combined, Dell being second. I think we've sold one Compaq in the past three months because the salespeople hate them.
The Dells we carry are overpriced and suck... Their CD-ROM drives are horrendously loud.
It's marketing BS. Any decent filesystem/MP3 player has buffering/caching capabilities, and in many cases (Winamp at least) it's adjustable. (Um, XMMS, get on the ball here! I can't listen to MP3s off of my DVD drive under Linux!)
I'm the same way - I will listen to anything except for what I call the "Squeeze the cat" form of country. (Non-STC country is OK and can be cool.) And even if the batt needs charging every 10 hours - I'mn assuming this has an external power jack for a car hookup.
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There's a VERY good chance of them going after Xing.
I mentioned this in a post to the previous DVD CCA fiasco article:
If the CCA can claim that "irreparable harm" was done by the CCA's slipup, they can REALLY nail Xing. (In what way, I'm not sure... Didn't get that far in my discussion with my dad.)
Otherwise, they can only claim that $X in damages were done, and then Xing owes them $X.
This whole thing may just be the CCA's way of getting incontrivertible proof that the damage caused by Xing's negligence was "irreparable" - whether the CCA loses this case or not.
If they lose the case, the secret is still out, and the CCA can show that they tried to repair the "damage" and were unable to.
If they win the case, we all know that the secret will be out anyway. Their "irreparable damage" case will be even stronger, although I don't think it needs to be.
Good point...
OTOH, a contract is a contract, no matter where it is signed or who signed it. It's kind of iffy in this case...
Now if someone goes and reverse engineers a hardware DVD player (it might be possible...) - THAT would be legal.
OK, I'm going to stay out of the "linking" issue.
I had a long discussion with my dad on this subject, who works in the field of intellectual property. (Not a patent lawyer, but he deals closely with them and knows the laws.)
With respect to reverse engineering: Any reverse engineering of something obtained legally is legal, UNLESS you sign or otherwsie accept a contract saying you will not do so. Most likely the Xing player had such a clause in its shrinkwrap license.
Hence, the authors of DeCSS's actions were illegal.
Hence, anything resulting from their actions is tainted.
Still, the CCA's strongest case is against Xing for violation of an NDA. Two problems with this: Xing doesn't have much money, for one.
The second is that the law covers measurable damages (Xing pays $x, where x is the amount of damage the release of the information did.), AND it covers what are called "irreparable damages" - As to what they can do to Xing if Xing is found to have caused irreparable damage, I don't know. But if the CCA shows DeCSS as an example of Xing causing such damage (CCA tried to repair it with this order and it didn't work), Xing's ass is grass.
As to the naming of foreign nationals in the suit: It is legal. You can sue someone in absentia for breaking one of your laws. There may not be anything you can do to punish said person, but you can do it. (Note: Your'e toast if you lose such a case and later set foot in the States. Of course, the CCA probably won't notice your entry for a case like this.)
How to get DVD under Linux, if all the information is legally tainted, then?
It depends on the wording of the CSS NDAs. NDAs often have a clause that disclosure is allowed once the information becomes public knowledge, even if the existing knowledge is tainted. So there's a chance that another company can legally release CSS information now. (In fact, Creative may have done this. I know their Dxr2 drivers had some CSS-related files - did these include the full algorithm, and did they originate in any way from DeCSS? I'm pretty sure the Dxr2 does CSS in software...)
Don't blame you. That's the nice thing of UT having an open-source renderer - while people might not see a need for major changes now, who knows what's two years down the road. :)
:)
I definately agree on the source release issue. I've read enough about the 3Dfx problems and the solutions that even I could probably fix the problem. If someone else hasn't done it, I will once I get back to my good 'ole cable modem.
Hmm... Maybe the retail version DID improve things over the demo...
:) (Campus Store)
Well, it'll be another week or more before I have access to a store that allows returns of opened software in cas UT retail is as disappointing as the demo.
Even w/o the policy, it's where I'd buy my games - 20% employee discounts rock.
Might as well clarify that statment - I was mainly referring to sales to Linux fans who pay attention to how a company treats them and WILL take philosphy into consideration when making purchasing decisions.
I agree with you on most of your points.
Quake 3: Kickass engine, both graphically and network-wise. Cheesy artwork, levels, etc.
UT (at least the demo) Graphically close to Q3. Networking code blows. (Again, I'd hate to see internet play of the original Unreal if UT's code is so vastly improved...) The gameplay of UT demo was amazing in theory as far as weapons/rules/etc, and would have gotten me completely addicted had the networking code not been absolutely horrendous compared to QuakeN where N=1,2, or 3.
In the long run, Q3 is better. Bad levels/sounds/artwork are easily fixed by mod authors. The serious engine deficiencies of UT are not.
IMHO Quake2 was id's pinnacle with respect to artwork and sound effects contributing to a rich environment. But I never liked the multiplayer that much.
QuakeWorld is the king of multiplayer, although Q3 is pretty good. UT would be a killer app if it had QW's netcode. (Some have argued that QW netcode is even better than Q2/Q3 - I'm inclined to agree with them at least somewhat...)
Never played the original Unreal.
Is there any significant difference between the UT demo and the full version? The changelogs Epic has on their site don't indicate any vast improvements in networking code between v.348 (demo) and 400 (retail)
a) I rarely get less than 200 ping over even a cable modem, and i often have that rise to 500+. It's easy to get sub-50ms pings with Q3.
b) Before you say that Unreal measures ping differently (it probably does) - I get better netplay with a 300-400 ms ping on QuakeWorld than with 150 ping playing UT demo.
Lag-jumping is evil. (Specifically, you move, only to *poof* back to your starting spot over and over again.)
I'd buy the full version of UT to see if netcode was improved if I could find a store around here that accepts returns of opened software.
Um, that's not true.
Try using pre-GPL GLQuake1 with anything other than a 3Dfx board.
It's possible, but trust me, it's NOT fun. This avoids the possibility of that happening. If the APIs change, it's easy to update the renderers.
Unreal's "mod" code has (I think) always been out since day one. It's some sort of scripting language (UnrealScript?)
:(
They've one-upped id here, at least slightly, in terms of what they've released in their engine. id did NOT release their renderers and audio libraries.
Of course, UT's network code is what needs improvement the most, as I mentioned in a previous post. (If this is "vastly improved", then the original Unreal must've been horrific!) - that wasn't released.
Don't take this as saying that I don't support id at all - They've got a LONG history of doing this, while Epic is probably only doing this because they have to match id or UT will be blown out of the water by Q3.
I'm definately buying Q3, and after this development, I'm reconsidering UT.
I have to agree... Still, it's actually a slightly better job than ID has done. (i.e. releasing portions of the engine itself, beyond the gameplay mod-author-food code)
:) Even though it probably WOULD run under Dosemu...
:)
I'd have gone out and bought UT if they'd released the source to their networking code - now THAT needs some serious improvement! (It blows chunkss compared to even the original Quake 1 - I get better gameplay over a modem with Q1 than I do with UT on a cable modem!)
Now I would LOVE to see this happen with other companies. (c'mon - you KNOW you want to play Wing Commander on Linux, even the original one!
But the renderers and audio portions are definately one thing that stands to benefit a lot from open source... Even if there aren't serious bugs, there's the issue of what happens when new rendering and audio APIs, etc. come out. Note that the original GLQuake was unfortunately quite 3Dfx-specific, to the point where using it with a standard GL driver was a ROYAL pain in the ass. That reminds me, have to download the new code.
getcheap.com is also pricesnap.com and a billion other domain names.
They sell cellular accessories dirt-cheap. Their service and prices are great but dirt-cheap also describes the quality of their products.
The car charger I recieved did not charge the battery on my phone at all, AND it would cause the phone to turn off as soon as you plugged it in.
I ordered three Christmas presents online.
:)
One: Used LCD projector. Came within a week. Admittedly, this was back in October (early present - couldn't pass up the great deal I got, convinced the parents of that.
Two: My parents ordered two cell phone accessories for me on Monday or Tuesday (can't remember exactly - Think it was Tues.) - they're already here. We weren't expecting them until next week. (BTW, these were from www.getcheap.com - Their selection isn't so hot, but their prices are VERY good.)
Three: OmniRemote IR module/software from Pacific Neotek. Not here yet, but it wasn't expected due to the late order (same as the cell phone accessories)
If only handsfree kits for the LGC-330/BAM-330 cell phone existed...
I can see why this got flamebait... I made one phrase kinda unclear.
Should read: If AT&T used the TOC protocol, AOL is in the wrong, blah blah. If AT&T used OSCAR, they deserve what's happening. ("They" was pretty ambiguous in my post...)
I think a lot of people have forgotten this, but there are actually TWO AIM protocols that can communicate with each other.
OSCAR is the original AIM protocol, and is mostly binary. The official AIM clients use it, and I believe so did MS Mess.
Then there's TOC - A trimmed-down (sort-of) version of OSCAR that uses almost all ASCII - it was designed to be easy to write third-party clients for. TOC clients include TiK, TnT, gAIM, and a few others. The TOC protocol and TiK clients were GPLed by AOL at some point in time. (Before which they had a free license that was quite nice, amazing for AOL at the time.)
If AT&T used the TOC protocol, AOL is heavily in the wrong on this one for blocking clients on a protocol that they opened. If they used OSCAR when TOC was available like MS did, then they deserve to get nailed.
Also, AOL's actions regarding the TiK/TOC pages are definately underhanded. AOL has simply removed the pages without any explanation, while leaving the TOC servers running fine and the TICTOC mailing lists active with no explanation. No one can get any sort of answer from AOL.
Immediately after the MS Mess incident was resolved, the TiK page reappeared briefly, announcing TiK 1.0 in early December, but then it disappeared again. (Before the AT&T thing...)
Apple's got great engineers and hardware.
But their management is dumber than your average company. I sell computers at the campus store here, and there's only ONE reason why I tend to push people heavily towards PCs - Macs ar 1.5 times as much as an equivalent PC or more. (Even you yourself admit to them being overpriced.) Apple is just way too greedy, and they're too stupid to realize that their greed is pushing people to PCs. Apple could do REALLY well if they'd only stop shooting themselves in the foot.
(Side note: Powerbooks/iBooks ARE competitive in price with PC laptops. iMacs would be if they weren't so nonupgradable. Towers can't come close.)
Yeah... And what about that F-18 that died at midnight? They ran "thousands of simulations", I'd be shocked if they avoided something as simple as changing the clock on an F-18 to see if it would die.
And "the emissions sensors might be misreporting the date" - Umm, emissions sensors don't report the date, they have no need to. They report what they're supposed to be sensing, nothing more.
There are no taxes on "data" CD-R drives/discs, as PC equipment does not fall under the AHRA. (Despite the fact that "data" drives work great for audio.)
There are "music-only" CD-R devices, which will only write to a CD marked as "taxed for music use" - This media is EXPENSIVE.
Large jacket pockets and/or backpack, combined with supermarket (Or even better, Costco or Sam's or similar wholesale club). Works great. :)
Well, one of the ACs mentioned this earlier, but your post seems to contradict itself:
"Uranium by itself is no big whoop." - But it is still radioactive. So you're saying here that not all radioactive substances are a big deal.
Then you say that fusion will create radioactive byproducts and hence is as dangerous as fission - Yes, it will, but as far as I know, all of those byproducts are even less dangerous than uranium. Either they have minimal radioactivity, or have extremely short half-lives. Either way, the waste disposal problem is nowhere near as bad as for fission waste. In the case of short-lived materials, it may be "cool" by the time you can even remove it from the reactor.
Remember their Voodoo Rush boards? Those sucked so much that it killed the Hercules name for me. Horrendous drivers that crashed all the time, and screwed up the display when it didn't crash, and blatant lies on the box about NT support. I bought one and returned it for a Monster 3D within days. I kept the Monster until last semester when I bought a TNT.
As to Gateway - I don't know about ther "Performance", etc. series, but the E-series (slightly more expensive, but cheaper than Dell OptiPlexes by a long shot) are REALLY nice systems with the exception of the fact that your video card choices are ATI or no card at all. Especially the E-4200s.
I work at the Cornell Campus Store selling computers, we carry Gateway, Dell, Compaq, IBM, and Toshiba (laptops only.) We sell far more Gateways than all other systems combined, Dell being second. I think we've sold one Compaq in the past three months because the salespeople hate them.
The Dells we carry are overpriced and suck... Their CD-ROM drives are horrendously loud.
It's marketing BS. Any decent filesystem/MP3 player has buffering/caching capabilities, and in many cases (Winamp at least) it's adjustable. (Um, XMMS, get on the ball here! I can't listen to MP3s off of my DVD drive under Linux!)
Try looking back in Slashdot... Immediately after WMA's release, it was cracked. I believe the program was called "unfuck.exe", and it had /. coverage.
I'm the same way - I will listen to anything except for what I call the "Squeeze the cat" form of country. (Non-STC country is OK and can be cool.) And even if the batt needs charging every 10 hours - I'mn assuming this has an external power jack for a car hookup.
Try searching for the above term on Google. It's amusing. Slightly offtopic, but it IS a Google feature and quite amusing.