How does Eclipse really effect MS' sales for Visual Studio?
I think that this post if a little off topic but I will reply anyway. One of the criteria for deciding what application stack to build from for decision makers in technology companies is the developer experience. The harder it is for developers to build in a particular application stack, the longer it will take or the more resources it will take to develop what is needed. When deciding between two application stacks of similar merit and assuming that either the existing staff is familiar with both or that there is no existing staff, the tie breaker just might be the tool.
I have been in ISVs in both camps. I can tell you from first hand experience that the J2EE stack is just as feature rich and architecturaly sound as the ASP.NET stack (though the actual details are profoundly different). For any company honestly considering which way to go, the choice boils down to VS.NET versus Eclipse (or Netbeans or IntelliJ, insert your favorite J2EE friendly IDE here).
The last time that I tried out mono was when the version was circa 1.0. I tried it on both Redhat and Debian. The only thing that I got to work was a "hello word" style console app. A more complex console app (had some XML processing) and a "hello world" style win forms app both died at runtime. Both of these apps compiled okay. These apps also compiled and ran fine on Windows with MSFT's technology.
The current version is 1.1.9.2 so maybe it's time to try again.
I have, last one I tried was iirc 1.5.04. It still sucks to the point of being unusable on an 800mhz system. I'm using linux, maybe the windows JVM performs better.
I'm puzzled. What exactly sucks? I know people who use, for example, the NetBeans IDE on Linux and Windows on machines of that spec. There are no performance problems at all with the Java 5.0 VM either in terms of general use or the GUI.
I haven't seen performance problems that would differentiate Java from any other platform in quite some time. Eclipse and VS.NET run about the same when it comes to responsiveness. jGnash runs as fast as GnuCash or even Quicken for that matter.
I haven't run NetBeans in a long time so I cannot comment about that. Eclipse runs slower on Linux than Windows but Gantt Project, Umlet and Visual Paradigm run about the same. Curiously enough, Poseidon runs much slower on Linux than Windows.
lawyer... quit and went to culinary school to become a pastry chef
There must be a lot of burn out in the legal profession. I know one who went into construction. Another is transitioning into life coaching. A third wants to be a movie producer. I really don't know of any who just like their job.
I am looking at a plone deployment. The requirements call for a relational back-end. Although the docs claim that plone can play with either, I'll be picking MySql over postgresql because I could never get the postgresql to plone adaptor to work.
Okay, I'll be a little more accurate about that. X Windows had been invented but was in it's infancy. Not every system came with X Windows. The microport system did not.
The ability to combine selections and the perfect rectangle and ellipse selection tool features require both the use of the shift and control keys and when to apply those keys before or after letting go of the mouse button. There is no GUI for doing this. You just have to know.
this program seems to take 'non-intuitive' to a new level
Intuitive means Known or perceived through intuition and intuition means The act or faculty of knowing or sensing without the use of rational processes; immediate cognition. I'm not even sure that really exists. If it does exist, then I'm pretty sure that it doesn't exist in the realm of manipulating software applications.
People say a GUI is intuitive when they really mean that it is easy to use. For most people that means that it is similar to what they are already familiar with. Photoshop has a lot of market share and mind share. I can see why many would believe that any graphics manipulation program that works similar to how the photoshop works would be considered easy to use.
To tell you the truth, I had no clue how to use the Gimp until I read Grokking the Gimp. The Gimp is very easy to use once you understand the concepts because the GUI is a consistent application of those concepts.
Now, I am not a visual interface designer. It is my understanding, however, that one of the basic principles of good visual interface design is that every operation that a user could ask the computer to make at any given point in time should be able to be made visible to the user at the time that the operation is allowed. Thus the application of menus is considered to be good. There are certain operations in the Gimp that violate this principle. I think that is why the Gimp gets such a bad rep.
It does not even allow you to format your own code. It crashes a LOT. It's slow, and all around very irritating
Just stay out of the template visual designer and you'll be alright. Use the open with context menu to open as[pc]x files with your favorite text editor such as textpad or emacs.
IMHO, once you get off of the visual designer, then VS.NET and Eclipse are about the same in quality.
In the spirit of the endless text editor wars, may I recommend the emacs planner mode? But seriously, if your personal choice of text editor is emacs, then this really is the major mode worth looking into for keeping up with your tasks.
Wouldn't it be better to boot with a live linux distro such as knoppix and save your session to a reasonable sized USB memory stick? You would be using a much more powerful computer and it would cost about one sixth the price.
I once was an adjunct professor at USF and introduced programming to MIS students. The first time that I taught that class, I presented a simple, console based balance checkbook example in Java. I watched as the class recoiled in horror at all those curly braces.
For the next class, I presented the same program only this time written in Python. That class was much more comfortable with the Python sample code than the previous class was with the Java sample code.
With this topic, I expected discussions on such technologies as MDSD, MDA, or AOP yet there is no mention of these here. Does everyone here consider them to be DOA?
My 11 year old destroyed his mom's laptop when he got up from it after getting the power cord tangled up in his legs. Lesson learned. Use a cheap desktop for younger children and do a good job about keeping all the cords out of the way. Besides, if you give the kid a laptop in middle school then he or she will need a new one by college anyway. Computer obsolescence being what it is.
you'll end up with a lot of poorly designed apps on this platform IMHO, because you have to be an expert OO wiz or wrestle with the VS designer (a total dead-ender)
I think that this comes to the crux of the matter, though not in the way that the original poster intended. As an application technology platform, I find.NET to be pretty sound. The problems come in the gap between expectation and reality that results from how.NET is marketed.
.NET is a MSFT property. MSFT is a tool vendor and, like all tool vendors, promotes the message that a better tool is the answer to all life's problems and that their tool is that better tool.
Many companies that embrace MSFT tools like the message. Why bother learning all that complicated computer science stuff when with a little drag-n-drop, some wizards, and some designers and you're done?
If wizards and designers could do the job, then they would have a long time ago and computer science would be relegated to the same intellectual dust bin as alchemy or astrology.
Not that there isn't a place for wizards and designers, it's just that you still have to know and understand what's going on under the covers. When used as a code generator, wizards and designers are fine. When used as a surrogate architect or as a crutch by developers who lack the understanding of the underlying technology, the outcome will not nearly be as wonderful as what is promised by the tool vendor's marketing department.
In short, wizards and designers will do no better than those who use them.
Good question. At the time that this project started, the company had only VB programmers. It was felt at that time that the transition between VB to VB.NET would be easier for the group than the transition between VB to C#.
This was a mistake..NET is so fundamentally different from COM that the big transition is from any COM based language to any.NET based language. In light of the full realization of just how long it takes for the so-called background compile to pick its way through a huge solution, I wished that we had gone with C# instead. C# projects do not have a background compile.
To say that VS.NET is the "ultimate killer app" sounds so outrageous that I'm tempted to think that a little astro-turfing might be going on here. VS.NET has a lot of features but it also has a lot of bugs. It's very slow when working with a large VB.NET solution. It also has periodic interop issues with VSS.
When VS.NET is acting up like that, I am grateful that I can just open up a text editor and edit the source directly like that.
What is it like to work for the dark lord?
^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H ^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H
What are the areas of interoperability that you are targeting in your research of Linux? What Linux technologies are you most interested in interoperating with from a business viability model perspective?
Slashdot Mirror
I think that this post if a little off topic but I will reply anyway. One of the criteria for deciding what application stack to build from for decision makers in technology companies is the developer experience. The harder it is for developers to build in a particular application stack, the longer it will take or the more resources it will take to develop what is needed. When deciding between two application stacks of similar merit and assuming that either the existing staff is familiar with both or that there is no existing staff, the tie breaker just might be the tool.
I have been in ISVs in both camps. I can tell you from first hand experience that the J2EE stack is just as feature rich and architecturaly sound as the ASP.NET stack (though the actual details are profoundly different). For any company honestly considering which way to go, the choice boils down to VS.NET versus Eclipse (or Netbeans or IntelliJ, insert your favorite J2EE friendly IDE here).
The last time that I tried out mono was when the version was circa 1.0. I tried it on both Redhat and Debian. The only thing that I got to work was a "hello word" style console app. A more complex console app (had some XML processing) and a "hello world" style win forms app both died at runtime. Both of these apps compiled okay. These apps also compiled and ran fine on Windows with MSFT's technology.
The current version is 1.1.9.2 so maybe it's time to try again.
I believe that the popularity of this game parallels that of EverCrack. It is my understanding that the client is written in Java.
I'm puzzled. What exactly sucks? I know people who use, for example, the NetBeans IDE on Linux and Windows on machines of that spec. There are no performance problems at all with the Java 5.0 VM either in terms of general use or the GUI.
I haven't seen performance problems that would differentiate Java from any other platform in quite some time. Eclipse and VS.NET run about the same when it comes to responsiveness. jGnash runs as fast as GnuCash or even Quicken for that matter.
I haven't run NetBeans in a long time so I cannot comment about that. Eclipse runs slower on Linux than Windows but Gantt Project, Umlet and Visual Paradigm run about the same. Curiously enough, Poseidon runs much slower on Linux than Windows.
There must be a lot of burn out in the legal profession. I know one who went into construction. Another is transitioning into life coaching. A third wants to be a movie producer. I really don't know of any who just like their job.
I am looking at a plone deployment. The requirements call for a relational back-end. Although the docs claim that plone can play with either, I'll be picking MySql over postgresql because I could never get the postgresql to plone adaptor to work.
Okay, I'll be a little more accurate about that. X Windows had been invented but was in it's infancy. Not every system came with X Windows. The microport system did not.
I bought MicroPort Unix in 1988 for $1,000. It was a Sys V variant that ran on the PC. This was in the days before X Windows.
You deserve a better company than that. If that is your company's style, then a move to another company is the best thing that could happen to you.
The ability to combine selections and the perfect rectangle and ellipse selection tool features require both the use of the shift and control keys and when to apply those keys before or after letting go of the mouse button. There is no GUI for doing this. You just have to know.
Intuitive means Known or perceived through intuition and intuition means The act or faculty of knowing or sensing without the use of rational processes; immediate cognition. I'm not even sure that really exists. If it does exist, then I'm pretty sure that it doesn't exist in the realm of manipulating software applications.
People say a GUI is intuitive when they really mean that it is easy to use. For most people that means that it is similar to what they are already familiar with. Photoshop has a lot of market share and mind share. I can see why many would believe that any graphics manipulation program that works similar to how the photoshop works would be considered easy to use.
To tell you the truth, I had no clue how to use the Gimp until I read Grokking the Gimp. The Gimp is very easy to use once you understand the concepts because the GUI is a consistent application of those concepts.
Now, I am not a visual interface designer. It is my understanding, however, that one of the basic principles of good visual interface design is that every operation that a user could ask the computer to make at any given point in time should be able to be made visible to the user at the time that the operation is allowed. Thus the application of menus is considered to be good. There are certain operations in the Gimp that violate this principle. I think that is why the Gimp gets such a bad rep.
Just stay out of the template visual designer and you'll be alright. Use the open with context menu to open as[pc]x files with your favorite text editor such as textpad or emacs.
IMHO, once you get off of the visual designer, then VS.NET and Eclipse are about the same in quality.
In the spirit of the endless text editor wars, may I recommend the emacs planner mode? But seriously, if your personal choice of text editor is emacs, then this really is the major mode worth looking into for keeping up with your tasks.
Wouldn't it be better to boot with a live linux distro such as knoppix and save your session to a reasonable sized USB memory stick? You would be using a much more powerful computer and it would cost about one sixth the price.
I once was an adjunct professor at USF and introduced programming to MIS students. The first time that I taught that class, I presented a simple, console based balance checkbook example in Java. I watched as the class recoiled in horror at all those curly braces.
For the next class, I presented the same program only this time written in Python. That class was much more comfortable with the Python sample code than the previous class was with the Java sample code.
With this topic, I expected discussions on such technologies as MDSD, MDA, or AOP yet there is no mention of these here. Does everyone here consider them to be DOA?
I went to the Content Management page and was surprised to see no plone. What happened? Are the pythonistas no longer in vogue?
Where I bought the laptop, it would have cost me about half the price of the laptop.
My 11 year old destroyed his mom's laptop when he got up from it after getting the power cord tangled up in his legs. Lesson learned. Use a cheap desktop for younger children and do a good job about keeping all the cords out of the way. Besides, if you give the kid a laptop in middle school then he or she will need a new one by college anyway. Computer obsolescence being what it is.
I think that this comes to the crux of the matter, though not in the way that the original poster intended. As an application technology platform, I find .NET to be pretty sound. The problems come in the gap between expectation and reality that results from how .NET is marketed.
Many companies that embrace MSFT tools like the message. Why bother learning all that complicated computer science stuff when with a little drag-n-drop, some wizards, and some designers and you're done?
If wizards and designers could do the job, then they would have a long time ago and computer science would be relegated to the same intellectual dust bin as alchemy or astrology. Not that there isn't a place for wizards and designers, it's just that you still have to know and understand what's going on under the covers. When used as a code generator, wizards and designers are fine. When used as a surrogate architect or as a crutch by developers who lack the understanding of the underlying technology, the outcome will not nearly be as wonderful as what is promised by the tool vendor's marketing department.
In short, wizards and designers will do no better than those who use them.
I've heard this before but can't find any references online. Could you provide the URL to any page that discusses this?
Good question. At the time that this project started, the company had only VB programmers. It was felt at that time that the transition between VB to VB.NET would be easier for the group than the transition between VB to C#.
This was a mistake. .NET is so fundamentally different from COM that the big transition is from any COM based language to any .NET based language. In light of the full realization of just how long it takes for the so-called background compile to pick its way through a huge solution, I wished that we had gone with C# instead. C# projects do not have a background compile.
To say that VS.NET is the "ultimate killer app" sounds so outrageous that I'm tempted to think that a little astro-turfing might be going on here. VS.NET has a lot of features but it also has a lot of bugs. It's very slow when working with a large VB.NET solution. It also has periodic interop issues with VSS.
When VS.NET is acting up like that, I am grateful that I can just open up a text editor and edit the source directly like that.
What is it like to work for the dark lord? ^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H ^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H
What are the areas of interoperability that you are targeting in your research of Linux? What Linux technologies are you most interested in interoperating with from a business viability model perspective?
Just in case he needs more help on that
http://members.aol.com/adamkb/aol/mailfaq/imap/