Slashdot Mirror
Pay vs. Happiness
itri writes "A co-worker recently sent me and article about job burnout. Although it's a year old, the points seemed to resonate well with me. The nutshell of the article is that job burnout is caused by lack of the sense of accomplishment, working for a narcissistic boss, and a conflict between the employers and employee's values. Is it really better working for a company that cares about your satisfaction? Are there any companies like that and (more importantly) are they hiring?"
With respect to your question, I have to say that you are really responsible for your own happiness and 90% of the employers out there do not really care about it. If they are smart, they would want happy employees, but as society moves more towards a service based economy with pre-produced products, there will be less craftsmanship around and less care for average employees as they can be quickly and easily replaced. So, your task is to find the niche that you can provide a well crafted product that those (like myself) will pay more for. I would say that if you are not happy, then change jobs or change careers or go back to school or start your own business.
With respect to pay vs. happiness, its a continuum is it not? There are those that would sell their souls to make the monthly payment on their Mercedes. I personally find that repugnant as it goes against my punk DIY ethos, but to each their own. Some folks simply find the job as a means for money to do other things with their life while others enjoy what they do for a living. I personally like to surround myself with people smarter than I am, have a passion for what they do, and treat them well to keep them around. That way, everybody is happy and things get done.
Incidently, I have three positions I am hiring for:
1) Board certified neurologist willing to relocate.
2) Board certified cardiologist willing to relocate.
You never know, but there are MDs that patrol Slashdot on occasion, so, why not?
3) Most importantly for this forum: A programmer. Can you program for OS X? Have Cocoa experience? Do you know IDL from RSI? If you answer yes to all three of the above questions, I have a job for you. I have my own stuff to keep me busy and happy so I won't be breathing down your neck. You even get to work from home or the lab, it's your choice, but if you are in the lab, you can have access to an incredibly extensive and diverse shared iTunes library and crank all you want. You can also have all the flexibility you want with the hours, I just want the code done within a reasonable amount of time. This is a contract position and you will find me most accommodating to work with.
If the meetings I have with the VCs next week go well, I might be hiring programmers with scientific robotics experience. Stay tuned to the Slashdot journal which gets updates from my blog.
Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
I'm extremely happy with my job. They pay isn't as good as it could be, but the benefits, flex time, dress code, etc more than make up for it. I'm also getting my master's free. Good Stuff.
After all, if your supervisor is going to channel their Inner PHB, they give you little choice.
If brevity is the soul of wit, then how does one explain Twitter?
Thoreau said, "A man is only as rich as the number of things he can let alone." Who cares how much money you make if you're so swamped you can't enjoy it? I am considering a career change for this very reason. Life's too flipping short.
I have to say that this article makes me feel crazier than I normally do.
With so many people out of work, it seems almost like biting the hand that feeds you to complain about your work conditions and expect your employer to care. Your employer's role is to provide work for you. Your job is to do that work. The employer should "care" in order to make you the most efficient you can be, but it is not their job to make sure you don't have other life ills that may cause you to take on more than you can handle. All my employees who have burned out in the past were replaced by people who accepted more pressure, more time constraints, and more deadlines without burning out. Those who burned out with me had burned out in the past and continue to burn out to this day. There are many reasons why they've burned out, and few of them had anything to do with the job.
Job burnout has more to do with the lack of appreciation and reward an employee receives for his or her efforts than an increased work load. NO. Job burnout has more to do with the fact that the employee sacrifices himself for a crappy job, why? Maybe because he's in terrible debt! Get your finances in order, and you can walk away from ANY bad job. Never tell me you NEED your job because of financial struggle. Maybe his girlfriend is a manic depressive freak who constantly pulls him away from his other responsibilities. Maybe he's got a habit that he can't kick, or he's got some baggage that makes him want to succeed no matter what. You made your bed, sleep in it.
Those suffering from job burnout feel no sense of accomplishment from and no control over their work lives. So walk away. Start your own company. SAVE. The Chinese are saving up to 40% of their income. The Americans are now saving 1%, 30% of all mortgages lately are interest-only. Why are you stressed: job or real life?
Today to get ahead and save for a reasonable retirement, workers often must hop from company to company to get a promotion. Ahhh! The average employee puts almost 15% of his income away in Social Security that he knows he will never see! How about if he put 15% of his income into his own house, savings account, vacation, or whatever? How much happier would he be? Do NOT say that employers are responsible for YOUR retirement. What are we teaching our next generation? That is it someone else's responsibility to take care of us in our old age.
Everyone is expendable, thanks to many employers' short-term, economic goals. I've run 7 businesses in the 15 years I've been in business. ALL of them had long-term goals, but I also realized that a LOT of my employees would be short term as they learned from me and found someone willing to pay the more. The wonderful free market allows people to do this. Those I invested the most in I had the most reason to pay better and give better fringe benefits to. Those who left because someone was willing to pay more than me found themselves in a better position. Those that complained I wasn't paying enough were not worth more to me, and not worth more to anyone else either it seemed.
The job conflicted with my values. I was mentally and physically exhausted and suffered from chronic stomach problems. Oh, I didn't realize this guy was forced to keep this job. Did his employer put a gun to his head? Did he have absolutely no other options to get a job? Did he really LIKE the pain it caused him?
Not dealing with a burned-out employee can undermine your organization's health and lead to a burnout epidemic. In the free market this is called "bankruptcy" and rarely has to do with employee's health. When all your employees are getting burned out, it is likely that the business was failing in many other areas.
It is very important to realize that there are MANY reasons why people burn out in work, in relationships, in friendships, in life in general. To blame employers for this VERY complex situation is ridiculous, and I believe t
I have decent pay and happiness in my job. I pay my bills, and work little, if any overtime. I work for a profitable tech company. I know next week my job will still be here, as long as I keep doing it, and am not subject to to bad management at the moment.
I think if you're happy with your job, you'll be likely be happy with your pay, else you won't be happy with your job.
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
Is Steve Ballmer rich? WAY YES! But is he happy? Oh no wait, Steve, get that chair down HEEEEELP!!!
The problem in finding out whether job burnout is occurring is because job burnout is nondiscriminating. Employees at all levels suffer. The symptoms of job burnout, particularly cynicism, have a way of spreading. Even employees who like their jobs and find them rewarding eventually may perceive a co-worker's complaints about management and lack of appreciation as valid. Not dealing with a burned-out employee can undermine your organization's health and lead to a burnout epidemic. Alleviating job burnout causes can strengthen morale, job satisfaction, and (what I think is most important to the company): productivity.
+1 funny, -2 overrated. Life isn't fair.
Maslow's hierarch of needs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_o f_needs) would say that a job can, over time, satisfy an employees physiological needs and safety, however, once these demands are met with money, an employer will look upwards in the hierarchy to love and belonging, and see that he could be doing better. I think that this is what happens, people see that once they are 'safe' from their basic needs, they look to expand both their emotions and themselves as individuals. People wish to do as well as they can, and doing so they look up the pyramid, leading them to change jobs, even if this produces a pay cut, as long as the pay cut allows them to live without any hardship.
when i get out of jail, can i traffic my rocks to the community?
absolutely not!
i plead the fif..... FIFFFFF
GOOGLE!!!
Then make one of these: http://spaces.msn.com/members/cooknaked/Blog/cns!1 pvuSZvKQm55PpLHWg0w1T9A!111.entry
;)
This cheesecake will melt the heart and soul of anyone. Mucho calming influence
Of course you can love what you do and still burnout due to bad leadership, bad environments, crappy salary, etc. But when you already love what you do you know exactly what you want and you know what to shoot for. There are many people out there who don't even know what they want to do.
So the trick is just to find a good place to do what you really love. Everything else falls into place after that. The world is a big place. Unless your specialty is the study of the mating habits of the black-striped vampire burrowing ferret that only lives in a remote region of Mongolia, you usually have choices about jobs.
Get the most money you can at your first job and suck it up. They will almost always ask you how much you made at your last job. If you're good at it, they'll pay you more. Although, this was at the tail end of the .com era, so there was actually money for hiring. Burnout is never good. I was at an IT firm that was a startup and we had to force each other to take days off, because although we couldn't see it ourselves, we were starting to do inferior work. Jobs are supposed to be tough, though. You can't sit around eating Cheetos and playing Tetris, waiting for your meeting with the Bobs...or can you?
Yes, but:
Yes, but - a company that cares about your satisfaction is necessary, but not sufficient. You're partially responsible for your own satisfaction. The company can only provide you an environment in which your work is meaningful, and with bosses who aren't asshats. Some companies fail to suck, but if you keep that "I show up, I hide for 8 hours a day, I get nothing done, and they still pay me" mentality, you're not going to enjoy it any more (or any less) than working at your last job.
Yes, and:
Yes, and - they do exist. And they're often hiring. They're everywhere, but they're usually small companies, and you wouldn't know about them unless you knew people already working there.
So, what to do:
Network. In other words, do the same thing you ought to be doing every night, Pinky. Ask your friends who's worth signing up with as part of your plan to try to take over the world.
... but most of them are startups.
:)
So if you're looking for a company where you can hide apathy under layers of bureaucracy AND that cares about you, you're probably out of luck.
Otherwise, it's all upside.
RTFA-Even the most enlightened, caring employers are facing conditions that can lead to employee burnout. Bob Kerr, Innotec Stainless operations manager and Welding Wire subscriber, wrote, "I hope that as a follow-up to the replies you receive from burned-out welders, you can remind them that their employer's constant efforts to increase productivity while decreasing costs are also an effort to compete in an increasingly competitive market. If the employer cannot compete successfully utilizing domestic labor, he is either forced to offshore or close shop. Therefore, it is in the best interest of each employee to strive for higher personal productivity. As Americans, we tend to forget that we are indeed competing in an increasingly smaller world."
In other words, between the Clintonista Democrats and the Reganites and Bushies, we've signed too many free trade agreements for employers to actually be able to compete *and* care about their employees. So the second gets left in the dust because the federal government can't be bothered with the duties of the common defense and providing for the general welfare.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
That place is not a place to work if you want gratitude. They work you like slaves. And you feel like a moron by the end of the night.
I went with the company that paid me the most without requiring more work than I could deal with from me.
:)
I am very happy now, and enjoy life even though I get almost no satisfaction from my job or any respect from my bosses. I don't really care... I do the work I am paid to, and I get the money. The rest is my life - which I enjoy thoroughly
PS: The views expressed above may be distorted by the fact that I met my spouse due to my job.
LL
From my humble experience, these guidelines help with the subject of the article
1. Be at work 10 minutes before time
2. Leave on time or up to 5 minutes after.
3. Don't do overtimes unless it's happening at most once a week and it's paid.
4. Have your own strong principles and be professional, do what you are paid for, but keep in mind rule number 2.
5. When a 'funny' new idea/feature/concept is about to be discussed and possibly implemented, don't go nuts over it. Stay calm, state your view, sit down and shut up. The last part is important because regardless of the undesirability of the idea, if your boss wants it to be implemented, you'll have no choice anyway. Instead of being stressed out, refer to rule 2 and 6.
6. Once work hours ends, forget everything until the next day regardless of the pressure. Work isn't your personal life.
7. Remember that people treat you the way you've allowed them to do.
If you still don't agree with me, do read:
workweek
Average work week in manufactoring
I've only ever been happy contracting. Get in, get the job done, get out. Get paid twice as much. Establish business identity, take advantage of tax deductions. Very nice way to go. Must be motivated though and willing to SAVE money for the inevitable dry spells.
Accomplishment, have had no conflicts, and narcistic bosses are easily endured for a short periods of time.
The smaller the company usually the less politics you need to go threw, the chances you are working on an important job is higher. Because you are a big fish in a small pond you actually feel like you are needed. If you work in a large corporation the benefits will be better but in a smaller company you will get more experience and you will be able to achieve more.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
I work government, and while I do like my job, there is no real point in my putting in insane hours. Because in government, everyone has to be treated equally. I work about 45 hours a week, busy all day (and reading slashdot!). If we do raises, everyone gets a 2% raise, or x amount a year. Everyone. Even the people that sit around all day surfing the web. There is no reward for me implementing a system wide VOIP system in 1 month from brainstorm to going live. There is no incentive for me to put in tons of work, except for my own satisfaction, and resume building.
What are we going to do tonight Brain?
Stolen Direct FTFA, adding in "The problem in finding out whether job burnout is occuring is because" and "(what I think is most important to the company):" Get a life.
Oh man, you are so disconnected with the real world - i don't think you have ever installed Linux - not in the last 5 years anyway.
Windows is only easy to maintain because everybody get so much practise fixing it all the time...
Oh well, what the hell...
My company is one of those rare ones that has good management and cares about its workers. I don't necessarily think this is the job I want for the rest of my life, but I like the company so much that I'd hate to leave it. We have good retirement packages, good benefits, managers that ask us what we want to do and whether we think we their time estimates are realistic, executives that can name by face almost all of the 1000 people working under them, a flexible work schedule, and a relaxed corporate atmosphere that values accomplishment over appearance of work (I can surf the internet all day at work as long as I get my project done on time). I think the difference between us and most worker-hating corporations is that we are a Fed Funded R&D Corp, which is essentially a non-profit.
We are also hiring... www.aero.org
My team specifically is looking for a spacecraft trajectory and dynamics person with some coding experience. I even get a major bonus for referring people. The catch is that you have to be a US Citizen.
IANAL, but I play one on
it happened to me a while ago. And I got out of IT all together for a while. Right now I am working like a dog, back in IT, saving as much money as I can. The simple satisfaction I get from beating a challenging video game helps a lot. It is the satisfaction of completing something that does it. But I do feel your pain...
I was in a sales job that I absolutely hated. I would do anything I could while there to keep my mind off work, while I was working! I would call my friends, drive around aimlessly and just day dream. Worst part was not only did I hate the job, I had to commute an hour every morning. It was against the normal traffic flow, so just a straight 70 miles north of my city.
I quit that job to take my current position which I really enjoy. I don't have to commute more than 15 mins. I don't have to put in overtime. I don't have to worry about job security, and I don't get paid shit, but the benefits are amazing.
I was on track to make $55,000 at my old job, but like I said I hated it, had I tried I would have been on track to make closer to $80,000. I now make $32,000 and am so much happier. Best part is I get to look at Slashdot all day while sitting in my office. Seriously, look at my previous posts, I make 90% of them between 8:30am to 4:00pm.
P.S. I ride the bus to work, no one in their right mind would do that unless they are happy with thier jobs. Or one of the hippies who ride with me.
Good advice.
Do your job, be professional, avoid getting into that other stuff.
I enjoy my job, it's a good job. I take pride in my work, I do a good job.
I leave on time, and leave work at the office, generally.
I rarely take work home, and I try not to travel on weekends. I'm fair to the company and they're (so far) fair to me. It helps I've got a reasonable boss who believes in that balance results in better long term performance. Many other supervisors I've seen are less balanced in his approach, their people work more, but don't seem to be any more successful, and their turnover is higher.
Makes you think.
Most programming positions do pay a lot. As a programmer for the last 6 years, and remembering learning through college - I'd say work is way better than college. I realize at times (most of the time actually), my work is real boring.
However, when I think about what I did before this - office assistance and waiting on tables - I begin to realize that a lot of times us programmers become spoiled.
Granted, most of the time we deserve to be spoiled. A lot of work we do fires a lot of people who have unskilled labor, saving a company millions. But there does come a point where we have to realize that yes, it can suck at times, but sometimes you have to suck it up and just do the job.
I can see why people get burned out, but the programming field is becoming more and more competitive. I think the dot-com days of bringing the dog to work, free soda 24x7, super benefits, frequent promotions (who WASN'T a VP in 1999?), and just "heads down" coding without the headaches of knowing the business are numbered.
Perhaps I'm playing devil's advocate, but where is the point we have to suck it up and just do the work without running around like a spoiled brat? I think in the future we're going to compete with countries that pay their programmers A LOT less, so our work will have to become A LOT HARDER for keeping in line with competition.
How I miss 1999..
Yes, companies and non-profit employers exist that care about their employees. I work for a university for exactly that reason -- much higher respect for work-life balance, quality of life, advancement, training, etc. And not having to worry about being laid off at any moment helps, too.
But it's not just universities. I've seen rankings of top companies based on their family-friendly policies. These are things like flexible work arrangements, good benefits, low overtime, etc. I don't know for sure, but I'd wager that the companies that rank high on these lists do so because they've decided it's better to invest in their employees and keep them happy.
Of course, company-wide policies are only part of the picture. Your vacation time and flexible work arrangements are only as good as your boss's willingness to let you exercise them. So I'd definitely add a question or two about quality-of-life issues to your list of questions you ask prospective employers. I know that I consider it a very good sign when applicants ask these kinds of questions.
-Esme
Are you licensed for that? it's one thing people copying a few songs it's another thing when a company does it.
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
Got lucky switching to a new industry at about the same pay in a less expensive town in California, and never looked back. The work is stimulating and pretty much everyone is within my age and socio-economic group. The work is more service based, so I get out of the office quite a bit and get to interact with customers. For a mid-size company, everyone pulls their own weight to just get the work done.
No time cards, just need to get the work done on time and to the customer satisfication. It is great. Get a couple days ahead? Get a couple guys together and go golphing.
After 2 years working here, I've gotten about a dozen job offers. 3 of them for double my current salary. Funk that. I'll just be able to afford $500 loafers to kick myself with after recieving my first TPS report.
I am billdar, and I approve this message.
Oh my god, you are a moron. STOP COPY-PASTING THAT TROLL! :P
Or at least change ">1" to "1". Not only do you look like a moron, it subverts your entire point.
You're worse than that "algorithms are evil, zomg" troll.
Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
> prometheus.med.utah.edu/~bwjones/
Dude - relocate to _Utah_?! You gotta be kidding me...is there hazard pay included?
(joke!) [sorta]
Job burnout is a serious issue for Americans, who typically work 20 hours or more per week than their lazy European counterparts. That is why the US accounts for 30% of the world's economic activity.
Rex is 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
Is it really better working for a company that cares about your satisfaction? Are there any companies like that and (more importantly) are they hiring?
Yes, yes, and just to add it another time for good measure YES!
Job satisfaction is a huge one on my priority list, it should be on your employers list, but most of the time it won't be. It's a shame that it works this way, but that's life I guess. I am self motivated normally because what I do the people who I work for can see the benefits of what I am trying to do. I also have a very good working relationship with them so if I need money for budgets or someone out of my way to do things, it's all very easy to organise. This means when I have to work two or three weeks straight and pull 12 - 14 hours days for that period I know that taking time off afterwards to see family / friends won't even be questioned. Anything else that I need during that time will also be taken care of without question too.
It all comes down to the person / people who you report to, some people just aren't adept at keeping people happy by doing all those little things that keep staff. Most of the time, it's usually other members who care more and make your boss do things. I know that I bought a lot of alcohol (Bottles of wine, champagne) pens and other small gifts for staff. I managed to get one of our staff members sent away to a resort with one of her friends for a weekend away after finishing a project.
A lot of the time I find it's all about the relationship you have with the people that you report to, if you can see them as friends and they respect you for what you are doing, then all problems seem to fade away. If you are consistently not seeing eye-to-eye on things, I would definitely move somewhere else.
Just to let you know as well, from having managed teams before, and people that have been unhappy and going to leave, the company policy before was just to give them a pay rise and that would make them stay. Only problem with that is none of the issues about WHY that person is unhappy have been resolved. In two or three months they will want to leave again. Usually it comes down to job appreciation and giving them challenges to keep them thinking. If you do this I have seen people work for a lot less because they actually enjoy their work. When people are happy it's very very easy to correlate between their performance at work as well.
Employers like this do exist, but it's just a case of finding them. I would find out what makes you happy and ask questions about this in your interviews to see if the company that you could be working for is really what you are after.
Curiosity was framed; ignorance killed the cat. -- Author unknown
I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees
...Rob
The American Dream isn't an SUV and a house in the suburbs; it's Don't Tread On Me.
In her book Overcoming Job Burnout, Dr. Beverly Potter defines burnout as "a destruction of motivation caused by feelings of powerlessness.
Thanks for that REALLY. You've just described my eight years in the workforce, and the way every pointed-haired boss I had used to take control over my life for at least eight hours a day.
Work. Do your job well. Leave your work at the office. Go home. Rinse. Repeat.
It's just that easy folks; if a chubby, 24 year old tattooed jackass like me can figure that one out, anyone can. I don't see anything really groundbreaking in this article, but if it keeps you from stealing MY stapler, by all means, read on. Or maybe go to Amazon and buy one of the 5 or so books she quoted from.
hi mom!
You marvelous genius of comedy you! /me tears down his shirt, screams at you like a teenage girl and blows you a kiss.
News for merdes. Shit that matters.
Ask me about my sig.
Earn as much money as you can... legally. Save as much as you can, and when you can afford it, retire. Life isn't about 'being happy now' it's about playing the game right, so one day you can tell everyone to fuck-off and then go and 'be really happy'.
It never ceases to amaze me how people piss-away their income on cars, gadgets, software, jewelry, etc... it reminds me of how white Europeans gave shiny beads and pretty rocks to native Americans for their land and food. Your income is valauble... that's why so many people try to convince you to give it to them (cell phone bills, car payments, etc).
Bring down the big bucks and then drop out of the rat race.
Being forced to use Windows. Fortunately, there is a bright side to it.
Sorry but I hate that line "You're lucky if you have a job".
If you don't position yourself for the market then move. It isn't a bad economy, we have had near constant rates with small fluctuations up and down. I know of only ONE person I regulary talk with who doesn't have a job. He is busy busting his ass learning something that will make him money. In the mean time he takes low skill jobs until he gets the job he needs. Fortunately for him his wife went through this a few years back; web designer; so he knows what to do.
If your feeling lucky you have a job your probably miserable too. It is up to you. No one is going to give you a job. You don't deserve one. If you hate your job then move on. Can't? Then learn a skill which will let you. Oh, finally, try thinking outside the box. That means if your not happy at your current programming job and weren't at the previous then perhaps it isn't the job for you. It might make a good hobby. Don't beat yourself into being what you think is expected of you.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
Well, if they are hiring, it's obviously going to be because they're growing, and not because they have heavy turnover.
Free Software: Like love, it grows best when given away.
No matter what the pay is, if you're working for a narcissist 9 times out of 10 you are just a pawn in their short term scam that will last until the investors find out. Then there will be lawsuits and threats and a lot of intimidation and ugliness that will invariably waste your time, all of which you have nothing to gain from. The best indiciator of full blown narcissism is extreme micro-management, a tendency toward promoting ridiculous business ideas that don't make money, paranoid thinking and wanting to explain ones vision to you, from the beginning, over and over again.
Is it really better working for a company that cares about your satisfaction? Are there any companies like that and (more importantly) are they hiring?"
Yes, the one you start and run yourself. That's one of the great things about being a developer, it's a skill along the lines of a profession, not unlike engineers, architects, lawyers, and doctors. You're not dependent on a corporation hiring you, the way managers and other business types are, for your livelihood. You have the ability to hang out your own shingle and work for yourself. Dad always used to tell me that growing up, but I didn't realize the value of it till I'd worked for a few years.
Flying is easy, just throw yourself at the ground and miss. -Douglas Adams
I've always thought of burnout as being tired of the actual job you are doing.
i.e. If I look at another page of code I'll go crazy.
i.e. If I have to cook another hamburger I'll vomit.
The reasons listed in the blurb "lack of the sense of accomplishment, working for a narcissistic boss, and a conflict between the employers and employee's values" are things that prevent you from doing your job. It is not burnout but a frenzied state of frustration from all of these things. i.e. We could ship a great product if it weren't for the asshole bosses ripping off their shareholders.
That's so funny. My wife worked there, and she quit becuase they treated her like absolute crap. She found a job that pays more, even in our sleepy Tennessee town.
hi mom!
I recently have been extended a job offer from a internet search company _insert_name_here_. I will be part of the engineering team of one of thier more recent rollouts. I am extremely excited about the opportunity, what (who) it will expose me to, what I will learn and where I will be (and can go) with my career path. However, I will be taking a 20% pay cut and moving from a much lower cost of living area to a higher one. I will also be joining the ranks of the development team, whereas now I am part of the decision making team and manage a group of 3 IT team members. Where I am now is great in terms of responsibility, interacting with the business direction of the company and having a high amount of say of what needs to be done, timelines, and resources that we can expend to make it happen. I will definately miss some of those freedoms/responsibilities, but on the other hand I am at the top of any movement within the organization both vertically and laterally. The job stays engaging and challenging, but it has lost some of its charm. I am torn, I know this is a great career move, but is it wrong to take a cutback in pay and move back to being part of the minions as opposed to be part of the management team? Any suggestions?
I work at a university doing system administration and development. At 43k, it's my lowest paying job ever since I graduated from College. Recently, an old employer offered me 65k to come back and work for them.
They were a nice company and generally good people. However, the work was not particularly interesting. We had virtually no contact with the end customers so we got virtually no direct feedback on how much our work helped people. The only direction for development came from managers.
At my present job, I get to do all kinds of things and help out all kinds of people. My contributions are visible and I'm in direct contact with many of the people I help. Perhaps more importantly, the job is about helping people as opposed to helping the stock holders become super uber rich. As one of only a few IT personnel, my voice is much stronger.
I still work at the university.
Every time I get into a hissy fit over what project I get assigned to and think about pursuing my inner gas-attendant, I get remind myself that I spend their yearly salary in car payments and think nothing of it.
Not to mention that bitchin' new HD setup.
Perspective is everything.
The revolution will NOT be televised.
O.K. some care so you do not die in some nasty thing they caused and then thay have to pay your family a fortune ...
...
... I worked at many places, smaller bigger and never got fired but always burned out and left by myself
:) - and it was a mistake but I do not take idiots too well when I am working....
.... ....
Big companies will replace anyone in a snap
Big companies will put you away in a snap
Big companies just want to make more $$ and are ran by shareholders who do not give a crap about YOU.
Small companies cannot afford to care about you many times, and as soon as they grow they care less and less
So I am better broke sometimes run my small businesses, do some this-and-that here-and-there and be happy that I do not rely on a company of any size...
Now you might think that I am some failure being fired from somewhere, but nop
OK I got fired once on the first week from my 2nd workplace, but that guy who I ended up holding to the wall by his neck shouting at him was there for a much longer time
I heard a big soda company (better do not name them) firing trusted, respected employees just days before bonuses, and in cases just before retirement just to save a few $$ and to put people on the street who will retire in powerty
that is how comapnies care
So in other words I would go for the money then quit before it is too late, or would go for a job that is pleasant and bearable - at the end you spend 8hours a day there (and 1-2 hours commuting)...
I mean your job is half your life. If it sucks your life sucks, and my life should not suck for money, I better be poor and with a smile on my face
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Too many people I know blame their managers, their company, the government, (or: insert authority figure here) for their problems with motivation and lack of achievement, but ultimately when you complain about that you are wasting time that you could spend solving it, and the more you complain about it the more you reinforce it in your mind.
I've found the most successful people I know are people that never complain, and just get on with it, or find ways of solving their problems, and they never blame anyone. Sure it feels good once in a while to blame someone, and it may even be their fault, but even so, they're never going to dig you out of your hole. It's always up to you. If you find a company that really looks out for you (like Tom Cruise's company in THE FIRM!!) then good for you, you're very very lucky.
This is really about employee engagement, something every employer should be working towards. Gallup has done research on this and they've found that organizations that have some of the best employee management practices also have some of the worst practices. It really boils down to individual supervisors.
And as a union member, I want myself and my fellow employees to have the best supervisors out there. I'm all for measuring employee engagement using Gallup's 12 questions to identify supervisors that could use some training on how to be a good supervisor. Of course, if this happened, then we wouldn't need unions:-)
http://consulting.gallup.com/content/?CI=52
Abstinence is a government conspiracy. www.SafeSexZone.co
Actually, all it is is simple competition. The standard of living of the US is finally falling down to the level that is comparable for similar labor in the rest of the world. US workers aren't smarter, certainly don't work harder, and have no reason to be paid so much more than their counterparts in other parts of the world. All we're seeing is a correction from competition being US only for the past few hundreds years to now we're having to compete against the entire world. There was no stopping this with treaties or tarriffs. It's inevitable. We're just seeing it happen now, and of course, it's stressful for Americans with their grand sense of Entitlement. Face it. You're not worth nearly what you're getting paid now. Be happy with less and you'll, well, be happier. It's that simple. Sell the Mc Mansion and the SUV's and let your kids take the bus to school.
According to in depth research using googlefight, pay wins.
I would like to say that I left the USA and went to work for one of the best Game Developers in the EU: and I f*cking love this company. They seem to honestly care about the workers. We get ~25 days paid vacation, and OT is compensated with paid vacation days. (which is unheard of in the US) When they wanted to make a move to a larger city, they actually polled the workers to determine which city to move to! Sure, it's a Game Developer, so we stay long hours to finish things for deadlines, but it's so much nicer when you are working on a Sunday, being compensated; you get an email asking what you would like for lunch, and the CFO later walks around handing out ice cream bars to people saying "thanks for coming in on sunday, we will try to only ask you to come in on weekends when it is really needed." It really makes me want whats best for the company as a whole, and I would stay longer hours and work harder to make a better game and do better for the company I enjoy working at.
Just to clarify, I'm not calling the poster stupid. This is just a play on a quote from the first Clinton election.
Abstinence is a government conspiracy. www.SafeSexZone.co
Americans are, apparently, the most productive workers in the world. ... but they're sure as shit not the happiest.
I've worked in Europe and I've enjoyed 40 hour work weeks and 35 days paid vacation per year. It made me more productive overall when I was at work. Strange but true.
Now I'm in the U.S. and I get 15 days vacation and the idea of 40 hours in high-tech is a joke.
So now I work long hours (but get less done), don't get decent vacations, am worried about the cost of heathcare and whether I'm going to get fired next week for "realignment" reasons, have a 70 minute commute in stop/go traffic and a $500,000 mortgage on a shit-hole house and I'm barely making the payments.
Still, you've got to laugh.
SRA International a company who genuinely cares about it's employees. Their motto: "Honesty and Service". It would be nice if there were more companies out there like them.
I work there so am posting as AC because it might be concidered an ethics violation for me to make a post on a public forum.
That said, perhaps you need to step back and ponder your situation a bit.
Is it really the job that you don't like?
Could it be that you just aren't good at it?
Do your coworkers not like you?
Do they have a good reason?
Why do you think it's the company's job to make you happy?
These and other questions sound silly, but are crucialy important. You may like your job just fine, but be unhappy with your personal life. You may not mesh with others in your office. Maybe you would be happier starting your own business. Don't automatically assume that all your problems are the fault of someone else. The only consistant feature of every unsatisfying relationship that you have ever had is you. Something to ponder.
People who think they know everything really piss off those of us that actually do.
I just came across a proposition to change my career yet again. When I was in Philly (ick) I was installing wifi all around the country. I dug the hell out of it but I really missed everything Santa Cruz, CA had to offer me. So I quit what I was doing and moved out to the west coast. I still had my consulting company out here but it wasn't a steady paycheck and bringing me the big bucks.
So here I am in CA, doing tech support for the courthouse (we let our consulting company slowly fold as my biz partner headed off to law school and I sought a bit more stability). I get to ride my bike to work every day (about 10 miles each), have great weather, good people all around, the ocean here, the mtns, etc. However, just recently I was offered the chance to do the wifi stuff again with a 50% raise. I pondered it for about a week and realized it wasn't a lifestyle I wanted. 50% wasn't enough to travel all the time, have instability, won't get to ride all the time, etc. Paying the bills would be awesome, but it's just not worth the sacrifice. Apply this to all your job decisions and man...it's interesting what you can come up with.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lampposts...for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang
Seriously now... First, a very sincere and emphatic kudos to all those hard-workers out there. But I can't help but ask:
1. Are all of you really doing what's best for yourselves? Clearly not all of you, working long and hard for status symbols that (usually) won't get you a thing, and products (of course not all of them, but the percentage is high) you likely wouldn't have cared for if they weren't a short distraction from a moment of idleness spent leafing through advertisements at the paper. Most rational people would rather spend the money buying back that most important of commodities (well, after food and shelter) - time. Free time.
2. Are you doing what's best for society? No. If you were unwilling to work as long, other people would have been hired to fill your places when you're not at work. Both you and them would have been paid more for the time you did work, as there would have been more demand for workers and less of a supply of them. Also, if you consumed less... Well, we I don't need to tell you what that would have done for the environment.
(By the way, saying I'm not a socialist would be putting it mildly. But the opposing view to that isn't a mindless race to consume as much as possible, frittering precious time away in the process.)
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The right time to ask this question would have been a couple years ago. Right now, a lot of us would be very happy to have the pay vs. happiness dilemma!
The drugs available today are really great: some can turn you into a focused genius, others can make you the office socialite.
In the book Listening to Prozac, Dr. Peter D. Kramer talks about a future where one must compete against Prozac-supercharged office mates for promotions; the Prozac-taker always wins. He also talks about patients who spent years in psychotherapy to no avail, but who respond to Prozac within weeks to become an entirely new positive person. Kramer infers that psychotherapy is of little use and that most problems are the result of chemical imbalances.
anyone have any advice for slaves?
Actually, all it is is simple competition. The standard of living of the US is finally falling down to the level that is comparable for similar labor in the rest of the world. US workers aren't smarter, certainly don't work harder, and have no reason to be paid so much more than their counterparts in other parts of the world. All we're seeing is a correction from competition being US only for the past few hundreds years to now we're having to compete against the entire world. There was no stopping this with treaties or tarriffs. It's inevitable. We're just seeing it happen now, and of course, it's stressful for Americans with their grand sense of Entitlement. Face it. You're not worth nearly what you're getting paid now. Be happy with less and you'll, well, be happier. It's that simple. Sell the Mc Mansion and the SUV's and let your kids take the bus to school.
And in the mean time, those of us who never owned the McMansion or the SUVs and who never earned more than $50,000/year in our lives to begin with, get hurt because while the standard of living is falling, the cost of living is going up. The only thing I can see to do about it is drastically revalue the dollar by fiat. If dollars were worth the same as Indian Rupees, then Americans could once again compete.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
I don't think your story meshes with what most people mean when they say someone is "happy with his or her job." The favorable things you point out about your job have mostly to do with what else you can do during the time you're supposed to be doing your job . The best part of your job -- near as I can tell from your post -- is that you don't have to do much of it, i.e. you can sit and post on Slashdot all day.
Nothing wrong with that but I'd say what you found is that you value comfort perhaps most of all.
So i guess if you want an early grave, no free time, stupid copyright laws, and christian extreamists running the country. The USA is the place to be. God bless America.
http://www.lhc.org.uk/members/pubs/factsht/61fact
Before I go into my comment, I am currently a college student. So my experiences might vary a little bit, and I still might be a little wet behind the ears, but give me a break.
I've been in some bad work positions. I've worked for a boss who wouldn't take disciplinary action against employees until she fired them. At a job on my campus, a supervisor wouldn't act against an employee when their tardiness was affecting the GRADES of other employees. I've dealt with co-workers who had an issue with another employee but couldn't tell them and instead referred them to a boss that does nothing.
Bad pay, incompetent bosses, crap for hours (12-6AM and then have to be back at Noon), and idiot co-workers. Guess my parents were right after all.
My Sysadmin Blog
Working is just something you have to do, get a life outside of the office.
Why did you switch back to the US, if this is the case?
News for merdes. Shit that matters.
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Considering most IT work is about as close to unskilled labor as you can get ... it seems rather pompous of you to try to compare it to legal or medical work.
A good company cares about its employees, true. But employees are not and should not be the primary focus.
As long as a company truly cares about putting out an honest product that does a useful job for its customers, job satisfaction will usually follow.
If the general idea is "our stuff really ought to work," that's something everybody can relate to. Within reason, everyone will be pulling more or less in the same direction.
What is soul-corroding is wasted effort. Silly projects undertaken to satisfy someone's ego. Artificial deadlines imposed so that the boss can show how hard he can get is people to work. Slapdash products put together to meet checkbox purchasing requirements that are so lousy that nobody could possibly take pride in them. (I once worked for a Fortune 500 company, no longer in business, that deliberately sought an obscure trade show to announce a product at, because government bid requirements demanded that only announced products be bid--so they had to announce it, but hoped that nobody in the trade press would notice or cover the announcement.)
If a company's bedrock values are that their product basically ought to work and ought to do a job for the customer, nothing can get terribly far off the rails.
If you are logical, then being happy is worthless. If you are emotional, then being rich is worthless.
People don't work to find happiness, people work to survive. Lets face it, America lives to make money. While some people here may actually care about quality of life, the majority don't. The majority here just want to compete to make the biggest paycheck. Why do you think profits exceed ethics? People arent focused on doing what is best for America, the world, the species, or even themselves. People are doing what is best for their pockets because the majority of Americans live to profit and compete for money. It's really that simple.
If you want to do something more than make money, you are in the wrong country. And the chance of you getting rich while also being happy is very slim, so unless you are an artist of some sort, you can forget about it because corruption pays and crime pays.
I think they normaly require PHDs and are at the more interesting scale of computer science, rather then your average php, apache administration jobs. I think i classify as worker burnout, or hwoever you put it. I'm due to graduate soon and i dont wanna end up working for the man! I want to do something on my own. I want to continue to edit wikipedia. And i want to maybe work on some open source projects. But how do i do all this with out a cash stream? Does anyone? I'd like to know how they survive or at least my chances of surviving if i take the care free road to wikipedia and open source software.
Giving IE users a taste of their own medicine since 2005 - http://pods.-is-a-geek.net/
Niether is Cincinnati Bell, they are the devil.
Most people would just say get rich first and then focus on being happy. What good is being happy if you have a short lifespan? and what if you have kids? If you want your kids to have the chance to be happy then you have to make enough money to buy their education.
Lets face it, the most important thing in life is making money. God is money, its right on the dollar bill itself, and money is more important than life itself for the majority of Americans. If happiness were more important then we'd all be artists and musicians playing music for a living and drawing stuff. The fact that the majority of smart people are stock brokers and bankers should tell you that money is more important than being happy. The majority of people who have money are miserable, but they don't have to worry about retirement because they are rich.
The federal government does not have the duty of "providing for the general welfare." It is to "promote the general Welfare" There is a significant difference.
m l
http://www.house.gov/Constitution/Constitution.ht
It can be debated whether or not the free trade agreements, etc. have promoted the general welfare. But the general welfare is not provided by the federal government, it is provided by the citizens in the form of commercial activity.
i can tell you right now that if you value your happiness less than you value the floaters you flush down the toilet, we welcome you to apply for employment at State Farm Insurance! We employ all the latest technologies, and all the oldest structures and procedures internally, to make sure that no one ever goes home with a smile on their face. the procedures will make you cry! the number of meetings you have per day often exceeds 7! fuck deadlines, I have 9 hours of mandatory meetings on my 8 hour day! YAY! like spending 75% of your non-meeting time recording your hours, documenting, and doing code reviews so that everyone else can tell you what you did WRONG, come work for state farm!
We'll have you smiling on payday (but never any other day) very quickly! the work sucks! the environment sucks! the stressload and workload are more than any single person should ever handle! but the pay is kinda good!
So yes! work for state farm! You'll have 6 bosses like me! You'll witness others do nothing for YEARS before they're found out, and when they're found out, they're reassigned (with the mostly-mandatory raise that goes with any organization moves!)
we have people here leaving to go into CONSTRUCTION because its more rewarding. we have people living here to go into poverty because it is more rewarding (not kidding). we have people leaving here to work in customer service because there aren't as many headaches. in other words, the only reason to stay is the decent money. and the money is only decent if you live in bloomington, this money wouldn't fly in any civilized area of the country.
people do their jobs here, and for the most part they do them well, but every single one of them hates their jobs. every single one of them, including me.
so. if you value your money more than your happiness, come work for state farm. All we have to lure you in is money, because the benefits suck more and more each year, and the processes we must endure make even the most stress-free person seek therapy. The dilbert universe *10, in living color.
maybe I should start mini-statefarm (similar to this), a website that just totally fucking hozes management there and makes them as mad at me as i am at them.
Two months ago I quit my job as a Maintenance Tech in a local plastic factory. I was making $11.25 an hour because I didn't have the piece of paper that said I could effectively do my job. I pointed out that I did my job better than those Techs who had the afore mentioned piece of paper and were paid $16.50 an hour. I told them I wanted a raise or they had my two weeks notice. The following Monday they said I could leave right then and there. Now (two months later) I finally landed a new (temp) job at the plainer mill putting wooden shims in a cardboard box ten hours a day for $8.00 an hour. I'm not really sure where I'm going with this, other than perhaps to lend a bit of perspective on job satisfaction, and maybe make a few people feel a little better about the situations they find themselves in.
If I could, I'd destroy you all.
If you indeed mean "drop out as soon as possible (and safe)", then we're not in disagreement. But I do think most people would rather keep working (but less) well into their 60s, because there's not much else for them to do, and hell, they may even enjoy it. So work less (and spend less) for a long time instead of rush to the finish line.
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Get in, get the job done 9 months late, get out. Get called back constantly because you did a poor job.
Education and Government.
Education and Govt both pay poorly when compared to their private sector jobs...which really means they arent as demanding, but because the IT departments tend to be smaller, you get a good opportunity to try out new technlogies...the biggest drawback from both of these are low pay and yearly audits...
For some, they would rather make $40k/yr and be happy and fairly secure than make $80k/yr with a job they hate...
To get a job that you wont eventually hate you honestly have to be willing to accept lower pay or lack of freedom, or both...
You can be a field slave, work harder, and make lower pay while having more freedom and less responsibility. Or you can be a house slave with higher pay and more responsibity. Either way you'll have a boss unless you are the CEO in which case you are the slave master.
My point is, unless you own yourself you will be unhappy, so unless the economy is good, you are going to either be a rich banker, or working for walmart. The good jobs will be shipped overseas while all the crappy jobs that suck like service jobs, these will stay.
So what would you prefer? Rich and unhappy working for a corrupt boss? Poor and unhappy working for a corrupt boss? The only way out of being unhappy is to be your own boss.
Be your own bully, or be bullied.
Well for one, protectionist tariffs mainly only serve to hold up grossly inefficient, dying industries. Take the steel industry, for example. Many of those factories haven't been significantly modernized in decades, and thanks to that type of mismanagement the U.S. steel industry started going under. So what does the U.S. gov't do? Ridiculous tariffs that prevent the steel companies from having to adapt and compete.
Another small point. Shouldn't one who is well-educated and supportive of Marx's philosophy be cheering on the forward momentum of capitalism because it will accellerate a revolution? I'm pretty sure that's how it actually goes.
There are 2 kinds of burnout. There is "I've worked too hard and I'm too stressed, I work for a prick and I'm tired" burnout and then there is the "I don't want to program anymore, I don't think I like it" burnout. Big difference. If you still love your work and the type of work, getting more pay, taking a vacation, maybe switching the schedule up can fix that. If you don't like coding, maybe you never did and got in to it for the money, then I'd think long and hard about what you like to do, that's much harder to fix.
Do what you love. Do what you love and get paid well to do it.
Lastly, I think a big part of work satisfaction is what you put in to it. I had a boss who had the motto "every 2 weeks we're even." In ways it's a nice way to work, that's about the extent of the business world, you're paid for a job and you do it. It's somewhat steryl. I was pretty young at the time and it really rubbed me wrong because I was so damn ideological about it all and wanted work to really "matter" or some shit like that. I think it's far safer to look at things that way, every 2 weeks you get paid and so you keep coming, once the pay stops, my loyalty stops. I went about it that way for a few years and didn't get burned too badly. Now I find myself frmo time to time working with groups of people I really like, it's a blast. The reality, kind of like the Beatles said, the love you take is equal to the love you make. The more you put in to the situation, the more risk your willing to take the more likely you'll be satisfied. I can't just work for money. I can't stay late and fix the product for some angry customer for the money, I want my team to be successful, I want my coworkers to be successful. I don't want to let them down. There is some fine balance between getting paid and "being equal" every 2 weeks and bending over backwards for the company because. From my experience and what I've observed, when you fall too far to either side of that balance, that is when burnout happens. You either put too much into the company and get burned by not getting enough back or you don't put enough into it and get burned because you really don't care about what you're doing.
1) Do I know what is expected of me at work?
2) Do I have the materials and equipment I need to do my work right?
3) At work, do I have the opportunity to do what I do best everyday?
4) In the last seven days, have I received recognition or praise for doing good work?
5) Does my supervisor or someone at work seem to care about me as a person?
6) Is there someone at work who encourages my development?
7) At work, do my opinions seem to count?
8) Does the mission/purpose of my company make me feel my job is important?
9) Are my co-workers committed to doing quality work?
10) Do I have a best friend at work?
11) In the last six months, has someone at work talked to me about my progress?
12) This last year, have I had the opportunity at work to learn and grow?
Based on a research study conducted by the Gallup Organization involving 80,000 managers
where did you work in europe? I was thinking of moving out there. I'm already a EU citizen by birth (Polish) but I'm willing to relocate anywhere within the union (except greece, italy, and spain... too hot for this h4Xor).
Your CPU is not doing anything else, at least do something.
Basically, here's the roughly-a-paragraph version of my career, followed by what I do now:
Started mid-'80s with minor tech jobs and tech/sales jobs for crappy, now out-of-business retailers (Egghead, ComputerTown, etc.). Got hired by a customer to be their admin, spent 6 utterly frantic, insane years there. I worked at all hours of the day and night, dealt with issues constantly, but I was well-paid, respected, and treated well. I loved it. Went to another job as IT manager for an insurance company, paid a lot more money. Loved it and the people, until we were sucked in by a much bigger insurance company. Their strategic plan for us involved firing half the employees and turning it into a branch office. Lost my job there as one of the first overboard (I was management, after all) in mid-'03 after 5+ years - the first 3 solving problems and running operations, the last two having conference calls with my new boss in Minnesota.
After that thoroughly disheartening experience with The System, I decided to give being my own boss a shot. I hung out my shingle in the spring of '04, and managed to eke out a living for the first year. Now, I wouldn't say my success is assured and I'm not making the kind of bank I used to, but I'm really busy, making a good living, and I love my job. My customers are actually grateful for my work, and they trust me to help steer them in the right directions. The experience I had is a real asset for them. And even if this doesn't work out in the long term, I've learned a lot about myself, learned a lot about business, and gotten the chance to actually use all the tech skills I've piled up over the years instead of rotting from the neck up as a PHB.
The downside? Some weeks I can't find enough hours in the week to do everything, some weeks I hear crickets chirping when I sit in my office. And today was supposed to be a family day to go to a museum with my wife and son, but instead I had to finish a proposal in the morning, and then get called in to a customer about a half-hour from here to fix a server whose power supply had failed (installed before my time and soon to be replaced). But you know - it wasn't too bad. Because the proposal is for a nice bit of business, and that didn't take too long. And the other customer knew that I was giving up my personal time to help and they genuinely appreciated it. And appreciation is something that is often sorely lacking in the salaried, 9-5 world. Crises like that don't happen often, and it just happened to be today.
So basically I'm saying that if you want to be happy, consider working for yourself. It's a much better life (at least for me), and it's nice to at least have some measure of control again. The worst case is you'll learn something in failing. The best case is you get to really be in charge of your career.
-- Josh Turiel
"2. Do not eat iPod Shuffle."
...we've signed too many free trade agreements for employers to actually be able to compete *and* care about their employees.
It's possible. I do it. I pay my people more than anyone in my industry which began to go offshore thirty years ago. Has it been difficult, with precarious situations and sudden death possibilities for years? Yes. But where there is a will there is a way. We can't blame government ineptitude for everything. Globalism is impossible to stop. You might as well try to stop the spread of the Internet. We are one united planet with nothing but the depths of the oceans uncharted and information being transmitted globally instantaneously. We will be dealing with each other forever now, barring the rise of totalitarian isolationalist superpowers. Keep in mind even the Chinese are having serious problems keeping their costs down now. As they become more wealthy through price undercutting, conversely they have to charge more. And guess what? Their people are rapidly rising in affluence. Which is a good, nay great, thing.
Respectfully,
Jake
Pay your employees what they are worth, treat them well, put the stockholders SECOND (and make your employees know it), and strive for success. If you need to build a molehill, engage your employees to built a mountain.
The problem with most jobs is that (and it's true for me) I *know* I can do a better job than the person above me. And it's not the work itself -- I have ideas to make things work smoother, cheaper, more efficient, etc. Most companies fear change -- they do what they can to keep everything successful and change nothing for sake of their employees.
Why do you think Google is the 'job' that EVERYBODY wants (myself included)? Their environment is key to their success. They give their employees free food, let them wear whatever the fuck they want, and pay them well. The idea of companies getting more for less is proven false time and time again -- you will just have more people staying under the radar and doing the bare minimum, as the article suggests.
Here's a few tips from personal experience, that I can pass along to corporations:
-- Don't have "End of the Month" meetings congratulating how great the company's 'numbers' were when 99% of the people in attendance gain NOTHING from it, and the 1% who do are the ones trying to "motivate" you to get better numbers for next month.
-- Don't keep on incompetents, people with bad tempers, and just lazy fucking bastards just because they seem to be on a 'tenure' track and have a 'history' with your company. If you are detrimental to the employees in any way, get the fuck out.
-- Offer a Christmas bonus, ever year. I don't care if I got a $10 gift certificate to Walmart, it's the THOUGHT (and yes folks, your parents taught you right) that counts here. To say after a year's work, in a time of holiday and giving, and that you KNOW the managers are getting HUGE bonuses, learn to give a little back to your employees. You have no idea how valuable that $10 may be.
-- Offer advancement, even if it's fake. When I came in as "Janitor" (though I didn't but regardless), and I did a decent job and I earned my whopping (can you feel the sarcasm?) 4% raise, change my title too. I would love to be Janitor Level II -- head of vomit patrol for lavatories 1-4. Granted it was probably my job before but the fact I got a title change makes me feel just a little better.
-- DO NOT EXPECT YOUR EMPLOYEES TO ABANDON THEIR FAMILIES/LIVES TO WORK FOR YOUR SHITTY COMPANY. I cannot stress this enough. I work a 50 hour work week. Unless somebody is about to die, do not call me on the weekend, do not ask me to finish up a project by staying only a half hour more, and learn that "results" are often measured in QUALITY and not QUANTITY of hours. If you stress that you want the best job that your employee can do, but NOT at the expense of their personal lives, then your company will benefit. Because employees will make sure to get their projects done in a timely fashion because they have ALL of the aforementioned 'tips' to look forward to, coming in to another day at work.
-- And lastly, do not believe that YOU, as Management, are worthy of any praise. You are scum because you make boatloads more money than me for a LOT less work. Granted *some* of you worked to get there and some of you did not. As an employee, I don't give a flying fuck and I will always hold that against you. That's not negotiable. Your job as management is to be despised by all employees and looked at with scorn. So don't get mad about it -- just offer what you can to say that at the end of the day, with your fistfulls of cash, you are missing one dollar to give your employees an infinitely better workplace.
But we won't ever stop saying how useless and stupid you are because let's face it dude... you are a fat dumb bastard and we all aspire to be in your position as well.
The price is always right if someone else is paying.
My biggest issue with my position in the various places I've held it, is that you never feel part of what's going on. You are behind the scenes. I work for an educational institution, but I couldn't tell you what the faculty do every day, or what the needs of the students are, or help set up for bbq's for the staff, etc. I work on computers, wherever I am. It's what I do. It's all I do. And I'm not going to stop until...
I worked in England - just outside London - for a big telecom firm. It was a four year term... then it was over.
England's an amazing place.
I gross less than thirteen thousand dollars a year. While I could possibly be happier with less, I would most certinly be thinner.
If I could, I'd destroy you all.
http://www.10east.com/emp_opp
Well for one, protectionist tariffs mainly only serve to hold up grossly inefficient, dying industries. Take the steel industry, for example. Many of those factories haven't been significantly modernized in decades, and thanks to that type of mismanagement the U.S. steel industry started going under. So what does the U.S. gov't do? Ridiculous tariffs that prevent the steel companies from having to adapt and compete.
Not that they can compete against Chinese $.34/hr slave labor anyway. No industry can.
Another small point. Shouldn't one who is well-educated and supportive of Marx's philosophy be cheering on the forward momentum of capitalism because it will accellerate a revolution?
No, for one, I'm not a revolutionary Marxist- I'm a distrbutist capitalist. More Das Kapital, less Communist Manifesto, and a hell of a lot more Dorthy Day.
I'm pretty sure that's how it actually goes.
Only in the Manifesto. Das Kapital has lessons that could make capitalism actually work for the people.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
The better offer that is... the way you've described the two positions, it sounds like a step backwards... at the least, think of the prospective employer that you need to explain this career move to next...
If you are at the end of the road, but otherwise like your current job, you need to look for a similar one with some room to grow.
I don't think you's enjoy the new job, from the way you are writing about it.
Having done my time as a 80+hr/week slave for a while, and then getting shunted when things got tight, I can say that the only person who is worth working for is yourself. Any employer will cut you loose if things get tight, but you won't ever sack yourself, and when you're busy, *you* gain from it.
It's possible. I do it. I pay my people more than anyone in my industry which began to go offshore thirty years ago. Has it been difficult, with precarious situations and sudden death possibilities for years? Yes. But where there is a will there is a way. We can't blame government ineptitude for everything. Globalism is impossible to stop. You might as well try to stop the spread of the Internet. We are one united planet with nothing but the depths of the oceans uncharted and information being transmitted globally instantaneously. We will be dealing with each other forever now, barring the rise of totalitarian isolationalist superpowers. Keep in mind even the Chinese are having serious problems keeping their costs down now. As they become more wealthy through price undercutting, conversely they have to charge more. And guess what? Their people are rapidly rising in affluence. Which is a good, nay great, thing.
Last I looked- the Chinese pay $.34/hr. How do you compete with that? And I don't understand- why would they have to charge more when they can just shoot the people who earn more (after all, there are always more workers in a society of a billion)?
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
I tend to agree with many of your points, but not quite *all* of them.
In a relatively "good" job market, sure - there's little to no excuse for someone to keep a "crappy job" that's making them physically ill, etc. But at least in my field (computers and I.T.), the overall market has simply NOT been very "healthy" at all ever since around 2001. I'm not sure I really see any signs of it "recovering" either.
I've been out of work for over 6 months now, and it's not even that often I can find an opening to send a resume to - because businesses are getting more and more demanding about exactly what they're seeking in a candidate. I have close to 15 years of combined experience with computer hardware and support, consulting, purchasing, and troubleshooting. Unfortunately, practically every job I see considers most/all of that "nice stuff to know on the side" while they really want someone who either does software coding of some sort, database administration (with previous experience in SQL, etc.), or experience implementing/supporting very specific appliacations (EG. Peoplesoft or specific CRM type packages). When it's not some combination of those, it's some type of "project manager" or "I.T. Manager" opening - requiring management experience and skills I don't have, because I've spent all my time on the "technical side" of things instead.
My "mish mash" of experience in everything from Linux to Mac OS X to IBM OS/2 Warp to Windows NT 3.51, 4.0 and 2000 server support to "you name it" doesn't amount to a hill of beans to anyone except the "on site computer service" places like Geeksquad or "Computer Nerds" who just want to pay you a lousy $10/hr. or so to drive all over town doing work they bill close to 10x that much for.
Years ago, I could at least get a respectable job as a "support specialist" or possibly even "systems analyst" at a mid-sized company with my skills. But even in the late 90's, these types of jobs were rather sparse. Now, I'm stuck trying to do my own on-site business because I simply can't find employment other than accepting something paying well under 40% of what I used to earn 10 years ago!
Preaching to people about the "need to have healthy relationships" is practically pointless. I *thought* I had one myself several years ago. My marriage ended horribly when my ex turned out to have mental problems that suddenly surfaced (bi-polar, manic depressive, etc.) and on one of her "downer" days, decided it was really all my fault and cleaned out my house, took our daughter, and moved about 5 hours away. Thankfully, all of that mess is pretty much sorted out (divorce finalized, etc.) - but I lost most of what I owned including 2 cars. And though I have primary custody of my daughter now, that also means I have a responsibility to do what it takes to earn money so she gets a decent life here with me. So some boss who lectures me about "over-extending myself" while he sits back and collects a good 2x-3x my salary just to "manage" me isn't going to sit well with me. I'm not some irresponsible drug addict who can't manage my money.... I'm simply busting my ass to do the right thing in a piss-poor economy.
I've worked for both types of employers and I'll pick happiness over pay. I think it follows a pattern though, there are greedy people who find money is the focus of life and there are those that get confused and believe that temporarily but come back to reality.
Two years ago I took a $25,000/year pay cut to change jobs. This was not one of those changes pending a layoff either, I did it when I realized that the rat race was really not worth it. Sixty and seventy hour work weeks, lame project management, foolish executives and the like, it sucks and anyone that believes those are acceptable parameters for an employer to foist, yes foist, upon an employee is a fool.
My advise is find a good company where employee happiness and community responsibility are of primary importance and go for it. You won't regret leaving the rat race and you'll be the envy of your former coworkers who are stuck as wage slaves while you still make a damn fine living while working a normal 40 hour week. Then there's always the side benefit of working for a socially responsibly organization and you can't really put dollars on that.
Democrats and Republicans are like AIDS and Cancer, I want neither!
Job burnout due to an unsatisfactory emotional and/or intellectual dynamic may be important but it is also something of a Western luxury.
Across the world, the reasons for job burnout are likely the same they have always been. Such as choking to death on coal dust down the mines, dying in accidents, getting worn out before your time through hard physical labour without a decent diet to support yourself or a proper roof over your head, and working on through illness until your immunue system collapses because you can't afford not to earn and/or such medicines as may exist are way beyond your purchasing power. In Western offices we can chuck in gloomy lighting, poor monitors that shaft your eyesight, bad posture leading to RSI, lack of natural light, junk-based diet grabbed at your desk, a nasty soup that passes for air made up of plastics, ozone, air con and 1001 other chemicals in modern buildings, lack of exercise and constant stress from a noisy, unsettled environment.
Such things are going to burn you out all the way to the cemetery a darn sight mure surely than an unsympathetic boss. They just take a little longer, that's all. If the boss is an asshole, move on and thank your lucky stars you don't have to live inside their head.
Las qué passoun
tournoun pas maï
Even with outsourcing, a mere McDonald's worker in America working 40 hours has a much higher standard of living than the average Indian or Chinese working 80. Indians by and large don't have Internet-capable computers or fancy TVs or cars or nice clean houses either. You do, yet you're still complaining? You expect more for less work because of where you were born?
For a good many decades, Americans have had it much better than people in the third world who work just as hard. So priviledge through birthright is being eroding, I don't think that's a bad thing, although I'm against things like the aristocracy and monarchy.
It's no fairer for an American to automatically live better than an Indian who works twice the hours than it is for someone born a Prince to live better than someone born a serf. I suppose this is an anti-capitalist viewpoint so will be modded down.
It's located in one of the most beautiful places in the world, walking distance to Acadia National Park
Plus you really get the feeling that you are working to better the human condition.
you probably won't get paid enough to live right on the ocean, but you can live 25 miles inland for next to nothing. They also run commuter busses to communities up to 50 miles away (I live in the nearest city with a population greater than 30k - it's in a pretty rural area)
...money is what makes you happy?
If you disagree with me on social issues, then it's pretty clear that you are a narrow-minded bigot.
They call it work for a reason. If it was "fun" to be at work, you would be paying them to be there. :)
Sometimes jobs fit different periods of your life. The high stress, high travel job might be good for a young professional with no family yet. Once your responsibility to others increase, your job needs might change. I might be perceived as good to give your children an Ivy League education, but is it worth it if you missed all or many of theirr basketball or soccer games? Would they even know you? A balance is good. I am sure some people can produce High income and have time to be with their family. Good for you. But for the rest of us, this is not possible.
Life is not a dress rehersal, this is the real thing. Spend some of your opportunity cost on living. :)
-Nick
An acquaintance recently got a call from a head hunter. The head hunter said there was a position working with Storage in a Telecom company. My acquaintance said, "Ok, I just won't work for X". The head hunter then got all pissed off, as X was precisely the telecom in question.
Here's what happened: in the last two or three years, X mistreated, did not value, and subcontracted most of it's IT. They gave precedence to third party software, even when in-house people already had something to solve the problem, and the manager went so far as to actually terrorize it's employees, though I don't know whether that was intentional (to get rid of them) or not.
Obviously, everyone who could, fled.
So, now, they find out that it really sucks when something goes wrong with the storage where your billing is stored, and you have no one capable of fixing it. Sure, they have all sort of contracts with third parties ensuring someone can be called to fix the problem (they love that, don't they?), if only it didn't took a week for someone (capable) with no familiarity with the system to fix it...
Later, my acquaintance gets a call from a manager from the company, asking why he didn't want to work for them, and he spends 45 minutes giving the smallest particulars of his reasons. The manager admits to the policies the company had, but said they were "a strategic mistake", and they are changing. Hah!
Well, the manager tries one last time, and says how much they are willing to pay. Would you believe they offered entry-level salary??? Being an ex-employee (and I was lucky to have been misallocated on engineering instead of IT, so I was actually well treated), I can only manifest my happiness in seeing them going down the drain.
(8-DCS)
So for my next job, I took as a "king of all things technical" at a small college. I get paid about 3/4ths what I could be making "in the field." I work 4 tens (m-th 8-6), I'm boss of my own shop. I hire my friends as consultants and coworkers. Noone gets tense about about deadlines, and I am by many miles the most technically competant person around. And I'm surrounded by coeds all day long.
Every now and then I think about some of my friends making more than me -- having more...But I'm still making twice as much as my friends who are public school teachers, and still can provide amply for my family. No season tickets in my future, but I can still go to the ball game. So I recommend looking for a job in education. The hours are good, the money's adequate and your bosses aren't all jerks. 8)
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm
I do qualify for burn out under those terms.
However, I'm not really burnt out or upset about my job. It's not precisely what I want to do with my life, my hours can be long and we don't see eye to eye on how things should be done. (elegant vs cheap)
At then end of the day, if it all comes crumbling down... I still get my paycheck. It's a nice paycheck too... so I really don't get bummed out at all.
In fact, just recently I managed to get rid of my previous boss.
He was a great deal of things... none of which were remotely considered good.
Ah, the world from a different vantage point can look entirely different.
"You should always go to other people's funerals; otherwise, they won't come to yours." -- Yogi Berra
Even with outsourcing, a mere McDonald's worker in America working 40 hours has a much higher standard of living than the average Indian or Chinese working 80.
For now- yes. But if our debt to income ratio (currently 50%! Nationwide we spend $150 for every $100 we earn!) gets too bad, you'll see that change rather quickly.
Indians by and large don't have Internet-capable computers or fancy TVs or cars or nice clean houses either.
Uh, not according to the nice lady we have for an intern- her family communicates regularly with her over the Internet, and TV sets are about half the price there as here.
You do, yet you're still complaining?
Actually, I don't, not anymore. I don't own a single car newer than 6 years, while I do own 3 TV sets, all three are second hand. And they have faster DSL in Bangalore than I do in my house. As for clean- we've got a rotten mold problem related to leaky pipes that we can't afford to fix right now.
You expect more for less work because of where you were born?
Actually yes- in fact, we have a constitution that requires it, but that part seems to have largely been ignored since corporations got the right of petition.
For a good many decades, Americans have had it much better than people in the third world who work just as hard.
True enough- the promise of the American Dream up through my granparent's time was that each generation would have it better than the one before. That disappeared before I was born, I think (or maybe just after- I think it was the OPEC embargo that started to push us over the edge).
So priviledge through birthright is being eroding, I don't think that's a bad thing, although I'm against things like the aristocracy and monarchy.
And have you noticed that America now has a noble class? I'm not quite sure when they appeared- but it's quite clear that they're here and control a large portion of the economy.
It's no fairer for an American to automatically live better than an Indian who works twice the hours than it is for someone born a Prince to live better than someone born a serf.
True enough- though by the Constitution of the United States of America, in a way we're required to share. But like I say, it's been someplace between 40-120 years since that has actually been law.
I suppose this is an anti-capitalist viewpoint so will be modded down.
I appreaciate anti-capitalist viewpoints- but in a way, America was intended to be anti-capitalist in this way. And back in the 1950s- it was! But America hasn't been that way for a LONG time now, and not all Americans are rich, or have clean houses, or for that matter are any better off than the average Indian. It's high time people in other countries realized that most Americans either live on credit (average is $108 of spending for every $100 earned) or do without. It's only 25% of the population that have any luxury at all.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
> Is it really better working for a company that cares about your satisfaction? Are there any companies like that and (more importantly) are they hiring?
There's a great guy here in Brazil, a journalist, Gilberto Dimenstein and he has a site, a radio "column" etc. in which he always bring up news about improving the world (and particularly Brazil).
About a month ago he talked about exactly such a survey -- which kind of job gives more satisfaction to workers. I don't have links now, so please do your own research, but I believe in what he said. It's the Third Sector: charities, NGOs, religious groups and the like.
And, he said, what is better, they're hiring! Apparently there's no shortage of problems in the world waiting to be fixed.
So, if this is the same in your country, go on and get the best jobs (but not necessarily the best pay, of course).
As for me, I already have a lot to do about Linux and narrowing the so called "digital divide".
I'm glad you used the modifier 'most.'
Many programming jobs out there are basically for monkeys. Very little decision making, just a lot of coding.
A lot of us on the other hand get involved with the business aspect of what we do. The 'why's, the 'how's...all of that. When the program manager or programmer is part of the decision making team, it becomes a very skilled and valuable position.
And by the time you reach that level, you don't care about the language you use, the editor you use, the platform, or anything else. You just use whatever will work for the project.
No reason to lie.
Then, if you boss doesn't treat you right...
...unplug the monitor...
...many of them are highly reflective.
The cost of living going up is part of the standard of living falling, by definition. Overall, what this means, is that regardless of what dollars or ruppes are worth, in 20-30 years, the average Indian will be able to afford the same luxuries and as the average American.
Last I looked- the Chinese pay $.34/hr. How do you compete with that? And I don't understand- why would they have to charge more when they can just shoot the people who earn more (after all, there are always more workers in a society of a billion)?
;) Keep in mind that China is growing population wise at less than the rest of the world. They have had a one child per family policy since the 50's and have very economically unfavorable demographics coming up in I think about twenty years (as the US does in about five).
Generally, what we have had to do is change significantly in every area, and get better in everything we do. We're now growing at 20% a year. One of the key points is that our product has become IMPOSSIBLE to make at our quality level at something like 34c an hour. Another key point is we are now totally custom made. This requires considerable amounts of highly skilled service, that can only be provided locally (as it is next to impossible to do well from a great distance).
Chinese per capita income has increased about five times since 2002 and GDP at about 9% a year if I recall correctly. Like what happens with any country when its people become more affluent, this leads to more job choice with economic growth. Businesses compete for the skilled, already trained workers as they grow and desperately need more labor to fufill increased sales under tight, ruthless deadlines. This is one of the main reasons per capita income is rising, and of course, by extension, costs of production. They also can't shoot the people who make more, as they cannot grow, or even produce, as they go through the considerable expense of training a completely inexperienced work force. ( I don't know if they would if they could
_jake
Happy times and pass the crackers.
I for one struggle mightily to stay gainfully employed below market rates and my school loans/savings eat up what's left of the paycheck living in an expensive city.
Years ago, I listened to some prosperous people in my area that told me "do what interests you...."
After a positively mediocre performance in a State University while working to make the rent I took a very interesting job in an industry I wanted to be in at below market wages. That company implodes a couple of months later and I was back to retail.
A couple of industry changes later after racking up a huge student loan debt for grad school, then being unemployed (not ONE callback) for a year in 2002, I'm completely out of anything that interests me, still getting below market but at least working in a decent environment where they do value my contribution. But, I have no idea how long it's going to last.
I'm not some pariah, I don't smell and I paid for some nice straight teeth as a teenager, but it doesn't "happen" for me like just about everyone else I know. Believe it or not, Tony Robbins CD's have helped a little, but it's quite an uphill battle.
Those posters who can make career choices really don't understand how hard it can be and has become.
Generally, what we have had to do is change significantly in every area, and get better in everything we do. We're now growing at 20% a year. One of the key points is that our product has become IMPOSSIBLE to make at our quality level at something like 34c an hour. Another key point is we are now totally custom made. This requires considerable amounts of highly skilled service, that can only be provided locally (as it is next to impossible to do well from a great distance).
;) Keep in mind that China is growing population wise at less than the rest of the world. They have had a one child per family policy since the 50's and have very economically unfavorable demographics coming up in I think about twenty years (as the US does in about five).
Local service is good, it's the only way I've survived the last 4 years since my last layoff. I've gotten a lot better at customer service myself. Too bad I hate people- which is why I went into software to begin with.
Chinese per capita income has increased about five times since 2002 and GDP at about 9% a year if I recall correctly. Like what happens with any country when its people become more affluent, this leads to more job choice with economic growth. Businesses compete for the skilled, already trained workers as they grow and desperately need more labor to fufill increased sales under tight, ruthless deadlines. This is one of the main reasons per capita income is rising, and of course, by extension, costs of production. They also can't shoot the people who make more, as they cannot grow, or even produce, as they go through the considerable expense of training a completely inexperienced work force. ( I don't know if they would if they could
Depends which side of the pie you're on- if you're a wage slave working to pay off loans for failed businesses, those look like very economically FAVORABLE demographics. However, I'm sure if China gets too expensive- the corporations will just move elsewhere. Nobody really cares about quality instead of price anymore, even when it raises TCO.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
Good to see after sucking the marrow from society's bone some people can sock enough away to live on a cook's wage.
What is the deal with slashdot posters like you who have to write in that silly, utilitarian-sounding "robot speak" when you want to deliver what you think is a flippant, clever, know-it-all comeback or observation. Is it that you think phrasing your comments as simplistic, procedural instructions is an implied insult to the inteligence of the recipient? That they can't think for themselves? I just think it sounds asinine, even though you think that tone really puts people in their place.
The cost of living going up is part of the standard of living falling, by definition. Overall, what this means, is that regardless of what dollars or ruppes are worth, in 20-30 years, the average Indian will be able to afford the same luxuries and as the average American.
Heck- they can now. Prices are MUCH higher in the United States. A house in India costs about 1/20th what it does here. Food is going up like crazy, gas has seen a 236% increase in the last 3 years, and in the mean time, personal income is down almost 30% nationwide. I tried to emigrate to India, because I'd have a much better life there- but of course the $3 million for a guest worker visa is out of my reach.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
I think the biggest factor for me is not necessarily that the company I work for (research institution) is directly interested in my satisfaction. It is that they are directly interested in getting work done and they know that means that I have to be taken care of so I don't burn out. They certainly don't pay me better than any other place.
The big pull for me is that I get direct input from my boss. No memos, no hints, no second hand info. The group I work with is small and my boss works with us. So if I screw up he tells me if I do a good job he lets me know. This also allows me to have a perspective on how I fit in to the whole project. I think the only thing worse than not being appreciated is not being appreciated and not knowing whether your work means anything.
Once you lose sight of the importance of what you do... where is the incentive?
The only thing "pompous" is most doctor's attitude about what they do. A doctor is a plumber who went to college for a long time.
Only difference is a plumber has to take the blame when they screw up.
You cannot be truly happy and truly free if you work for another person, no matter how much you get paid. You should seek to start your own business, even if this means earning less money than being an employee for another company.
Most American companies at least pretend to have comp time, which is paid vacation days for OT. Most follow though a lot less than 100% though.
Sounds like a great company. Not sure what it has to do with leaving the US though. Are Americans known to me more inhumane to each other?
It sounds like you are at a small company. I hope things don't go badly for you when your company ends up being taken over by Vivendi or Take Two. Faceless corporations tend to suck, no matter what nationality.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
If you have a meaningful job then it's a lot easier to get satisfaction from it. Boosting the earnings of some faceless corporation isn't high on my list, but knowing that every day, I can make meaningful contributions to mankind's scientific understanding of the universe goes a long way.
southern france is hot, too. the netherlands famously have very liberal drug laws, and you could expect pretty much everybody to speak excellent english.
eurostat has statistics galore that will give you some hints, but keep in mind to weight the living expenditures against the income.
what you should do, imho, is take a couple of weeks off and travel around a bit. we have cheap airlines that will let you get around on a low budget. we also have an excellent railway system, you'd see more that way.
it's not just the working hours (and cheap bandwidth, although it's important, of course) that make for quality of living, but also the food and the people. those are highly individual factors, so going there first before you decide to begin a new life would be a smart investment of the little time and money it would cost you, imho.
What does it matter what the GDP of your nation is?
If the nation's GDP goes up an extra 1%, do you get a dividend check for your share of the difference?
If the nation's GDP goes up 3% will you suddenly become more handsome, grow a larger penis overnight, and get a 20 point IQ boost?
Unless you're getting an equal and/or fair share of the increase in GDP, then crowing about how "GDP has gone up!!!11one" is simply a slave mentality... you're somehow happy that your masters who control the economy made some more profit, even though you'll get none of the fruits of that increase.
If you've got a 35-hour workweek, 6 weeks of paid vacation every year, free healthcare, free schooling through Bachelor's-level for your kids, and a guaranteed old-age pension.... would you give it all up so you could live in a country that had a slightly higher GDP????
Are you insane? What on god's green earth effect will a higher GDP have on your own personal life experience??
Local service is good, it's the only way I've survived the last 4 years since my last layoff. I've gotten a lot better at customer service myself. Too bad I hate people- which is why I went into software to begin with.
I know what you mean, I've had to learn alot about tolerance, which is good for ya. And dealing with energy vampires- those that are never content until they make you as miserable as they are. They take more than garlic- you need a completely stable center. As difficult as it is, do you think you're a better person for it?
Depends which side of the pie you're on- if you're a wage slave working to pay off loans for failed businesses, those look like very economically FAVORABLE demographics.
True, except the fuckers will probably take the money and run and screw everybody.
However, I'm sure if China gets too expensive- the corporations will just move elsewhere. Nobody really cares about quality instead of price anymore, even when it raises TCO.
Definitely. It's already happening. Eastern Europe has been in the mix for a while with desperate wage slaves to exploit, Cambodia, etc. The march to pay less will continue until there's no one else for WalMart to squeeze. Just like the British Empire most recently. Already, surprisingly, many poor nations are touting higher costs and better work conditions as a market differentiation. It's gaining steam, and I like to think it's goodwill and an understanding of how the universe works as much as PR appeal, but who knows.
ps. A large percentage of things labeled "Made in Italy" are not, because of their very lax labeling laws. Romania especially is making a huge chunk of these products.
_jake
Despite all the niggling nit picky stuff, the endless telemarketers, slow paying customers and being responsible for people who sometimes duck out at critical times...the worst day working for yourself is better than the best day at the best company as an employee. Because no matter how nice they are, how well they treat people, you're still their little cubical bitch. Your morals and ethics, assuming you have any...this is /. after all ;)...are in some ways limited by your employer. Good or bad you live and work by their rules. If they ask you to do something that violates your conscience, your only options are do it or quit. Your privacy is at their discretion. Monitor your email, computer use, pee in a cup, regulate your outward appearance. Do it or you're out. And they can get rid of you any time they want, even if you have 15 years there. Some would do it nicely, some would have security give you the frog walk but the end result is the same. They owe you nothing. You're a bitch in their stable.
In all my travels in the IT business, the only advice I'd offer the new guys: The only way to truly like the boss, is to be the boss. If you want job security, own the company.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
Programming can be very rewarding, and I don't know what all this discussion is about not liking you job. Just quit and be a consultant, make more than twice as much, work in your own environment, and don't deal with any boss or coworkers, and you get to be as creative as you want, you have to be in order to survive. I think the the people who have boring programming jobs is because that is ALL they do, you have to be creative and feel free to jump into all aspects of the business. People take on the code-monkey role by their own choice, IMHO.
You'd be shocked to find out how many CEO's feel they are the slave. Boards, investors, clients, vendors, family, etc. There is no top of the hill, unless you're prepared for a negative cash flow.
The good jobs will be shipped overseas while all the crappy jobs that suck like service jobs, these will stay
The good jobs, like standing on a production line 10 hours a day doing the same thing over and over and over agin, hoping you don't get too sleepy and have your arm in the hydraulic press when it goes? Maybe you long for the good jobs like working in a coal mine?
Happiness is a state of mind. You can choose to be happy working in Walmart or shoveling asphalt in Death Valley, and you can choose to be unhappy as CEO of Bank of America or even when sitting in your cube hating your job instead of looking for something else to do.
Be your own bully, or be bullied.
Nice. Shocking to find you unhappy...
Even if you are your own boss (i.e., own a business) then you are still a slave to your customers, and in general the current state of the economy.
The only way to not be a slave is to buy your way out, that is save up enough money that you can live off the interest. How much you need to save depends on what lifestyle you want to have. But there are a number of people that have decided to cash everything in, turn to a minimalist life, and survive off the land & interest from sold assets.
Most large companies consider employees to be completely interchangeable and replaceable like light bulbs.
That's not to say that all small companies are good, though. Many tech startups have a business plan that requires making their employees work long hours and weekends until they burn out. Avoid those like the plauge. They always tell prospective employees that they will reap big rewards on stock options, and in fact often insist that the employee should accept lower salary and worse benefits in exchange for the options. Don't buy it. Options *might* pay off, but it's a long shot. If they try to sucker you into such a plan, ask them to give you the salary and benefits you want and forget the options. They'll almost never do that, which tells you that their real opinion on the value of their own options is that they are worthless; obviously you shouldn't value them any more highly.
I've had the good fortune to have several enjoyable jobs at small companies, including my current job. At a few of them I did eventually make modest gains on stock options, but not enough for a down payment on a house. Well, maybe a down payment on a house somewhere other than in Silicon Valley.
Perhaps, but wouldn't you crow too? "GPD IS UP!!!111 TEH YAYNESS, ROFLLRZZZZZ"
Yes!
Oh now you're just being plain sarcastic aren't you?
I do not mind my job. I like my job, really. I get decent money, although my last paycheck was small since now I have to devote 1/2 my life to UIC. Do I feel burnout? Yes. But not because my boss is somehow not appropriate, or the workload/appreciation ratio is too high. In fact, I have the best boss I've had, and I find my workload challenging, interesting and well... resulting in more appreciation of me (hopefully). I feel burnout because I realize that by putting in 30 hours at work per week, and 20 hours of school, I end up an entirely non-wellrounded, boring, disinteresting goof. There are countless things that I want to do and strive to do - sports, music, literature, sciences - but I can't because I'm stuck between earning money at my job and spending (wasting) it on UIC. I bore myself - I can hardly imagine how others must feel around me. Probably pretty bored.
Yes, I know tough luck - but that doesn't mean I cannot be annoyed/disappointed/pissed by this.
ESOPs could be the solution to job burnout.
http://www.egovcompetition.com/esop.htm
Slashdot = Sarcasm
Are there any companies like that and (more importantly) are they hiring? web developer wanted: http://participatoryculture.org/jobs/ not-for-profit, supports independent media, free and open source software, good technology.
Just a note on the 'measure of control' thought -- it's very comforting knowing that you can control what you do and when. But it's very easy to let the rope slack and to lose control of yourself -- putting off work when it could be done earlier, avoiding spending the hours to finish a task because your too tired (but had you been in a regular job, you would have no choice but to finish). It's something to be concerned about. If you are the type of person who tends to require structure to promote your participation in work, then evaluate working for yourself cautiously.
For he today that sheds his blood with me shall be my brother.
I think a lot of how you are treated depends on where you fall on the balance sheet. If you are at a consulting place or a software shop, then what you do is (likely) part of the revenue stream, and everybody appreciates that your talents are paying the bills. But if you are, say, a programmer at a bank or a network guy at a tuna fish cannery or something, you are overhead, i.e., a necessary evil. Maybe you save a lot of money for the company, and pay for yourself many times over, but you still aren't the guy bringing the money in the door...and the revenue producers are the people that the smart managers are looking to make happy.
An American publicly-traded company's mission is, by federal law, to make as much profit for its shareholders (read: its owners) as possible. Period. That's what they mean by "maximize shareholder value." Any other declared mission statement is a bald-faced lie. It also could be illegal if the stockholders file complaints to the Securites & Exchange Commission.
Any company officer that doesn't adhere to the above has a pretty good chance of being fired by the board. Any officer that deliberately chooses to reduce the company's profit margin to satisfy a customer or employee can face criminal charges unless the Board of Directors authorizes it.
Profit is Job One. Anything else is a violation of Federal securities law.
While it's wonderful for you to be able to junk your job and run off to paint nude Tahitian women many of us, myself included can't actually afford to do this. Burnout isn't caused by doing something you don't like, it's caused by doing something you don't like that you can't practically change.
my employer buys us lunch 6 days a week (and the one day they don't is sunday, and we're only there for 5 hours)
they take us out to movies (which includes ticket, and popcorn, for all 150ish employees and whoever they decide to bring with them (within reason ofcourse))
paid health benefits
10% off of store's cost @ the retail part of the place (they lose money when we buy stuff)
you dont have to hesitate to go voice an opinion or concern
they genuinely care about the well-being of their employees..
and they pay well too.
What country is that?
...is a website filled to the brim with workplace horror stories (some of them I saw for myself at my last workplace).
If you can stand the stories at this website, then I would suggest you stick with your current job if you are well paid.
Oh yes, and honey will have a nice 50% chunk of that upon divorce. And that's not counting child support payments. Life sucks no matter how you slice it
In the case of burned-out employees that companies care about, I'd bet the tasks they're working on now that burned them out take less hours than the interesting tasks pre-burnout they spent 60 hours a week thinking about. Part of this is how forward looking the work is. Would you rather tell people "I helped create Google's latest internet toy" or "I helped Windows load 2 minutes faster"?
I'd rather be preterite
I made the mistake of wanting to get real world experience before I went back and get my masters. I really hate the real world. Don't get me wrong, I've gotten tons of good experience and my job really isn't too bad.
Even before I started working there I was all ready enrolled in graduate school. I really want to teach. I enjoy computer science. I realize teaching is a lot more work, but I think it's easier to deal with burnout in an academic environment.
There is always an end in sight. You know there is a break between spring and summer classes and that there is time to recoup for the next semester. During my undergraduate degree, I really enjoyed the lab work and the research I was given a stipend to do.
40 hours a week sitting down at a box and then getting to spend your breaks outside with all the smokers with nothing but buildings and urban sprawl around you. I'd much rather be on a campus where I could take my breaks by walking through the park on campus.
To quote one of my favorite movies: "...Human beings were not meant to sit in little cubicles staring at computer screens all day, filling out useless forms and listening to eight different bosses drone on about about mission statements..." (Office Space)
Right now I'm really burnt out at work. With my 5 personal days a year, I all ready had to use two on a wedding and another as a sick day. I have two more days off between now and next summer.
I like the line from the movie Office Space about how man was not meant to
It's for exempt (salaried) employees. It has always been that way. I know it isn't required, that's why I said "Most American companies at least pretend to have comp time." I would have though that was pretty damn CYA, but I guess not enough for slashdot.
Hourly workers are more protected against having to work unpaid overtime than salaried workers are, by far.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
An increased GDP argueably increases the standard of living of a country's citizens.
c t
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_domestic_produ
This wikipedia article doesn't get into something called "rounds of respending," but the gist is that spending actually causes a geometrically multiplied effect the GDP, because for the most part, people and companies respend much of what they are paid.
Some economics texts have examples of how event a little bit of money entering a small economy (such as a small town) can have a huge impact on the lifestyle and incomes of the citizens. (See Macroeconomics, 16th ed., McConnell and Brue).
Yes, being debt free reduced the stress.
Having saved more than a years wage allowed me to reflect the projected stress that a former employer sought to generate by pressuring me as his business was going under. He lost it all and I has a year vaca on extended unemployment.
Further, starting side businesses with different structures, some dis-similar in structure such that income is not earned from work have allowed me to state to bosses face that even if he is really disappointed I will be rewarded have reducesed stress to the greatest minimun i can account for.
Now he has been demoted, still my boss, he is in debt, has a family (i don't) and I watch his attitude change evry day. LMAO! He comes in on weekends and is salaried.
I wish I had MOD points today. -1 troll + -1 loser.
At least the number of paid vacation days. Doesn't sound like this company is all that special compared to any other company based in Europe. While I agree that it's nice that someone buys you ice cream once in a while, that's not really the be all and end all of life. :)
creation science book
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The antidote for misuse of freedom of speech is more freedom of speech.
-- Molly Ivins
...to talk with you mouth full!
To me, happiness and control over my own labor is the most important thing right now. I worked at dot-bombs, I worked on Wall Street, and I decided I would rather make (for a little while anyhow) half or even a quarter of what I was making. And while to me the control of my labor is the important thing, I also see working on Wall Street as a dead end unless I wanted to climb the corporate management ladder, which I don't want to do.
In 1999, I was working at a dot-com where if the stock had just stayed flat, I would have made a ton of money in options. I was making $85k, my boss was great, the IT staff was great and close-knit, the environment was great, everything was great - and I was happy - but *one* of the reasons I was happy is I knew that if those options came through, I wouldn't have had to work for some crappy job if I didn't want to.
And finally, while control of my labor is most important, and even in great situations you don't control it if you have a boss, the truth is that if you're not your own boss, you're never going to make real money anyhow - your boss will. If you make $100k at a company, you can be sure you're actually contributing $125k worth of value to that company. The owner is taking all the $25ks of all of those workers he has under him, adding them together and that's why he's a millionaire. I don't necessarily want to be that guy, I'd be happy working for myself and making a decent salary. $70k was more than enough for me when I was making it, when I got bumped up to $85k, that was $15k on top of more than enough for me. And I don't think you make real money unless you are your own boss.
Microsoft is not a slave to its customers. Neither is the RIAA, or OPEC. The phone companies are not a slaver to their consumers either.
You see, most consumers are too stupid to know they are being bullied. Most consumers don't even know the basics on how economics work to control their lives and restrict their options in life. Until the average consumer figures out that monopoly = less options = lower quality of life, the consumer will be treated as property instead of the company being treated as property by customers. Smart consumers buy stock and shares in companies they frequently buy from. If you like Kellogs cereal, buy their stock. If you like Microsoft Windows, buy its stock. If you like Redhat Linux or Google, buy its stock. Buying products should also mean buying stocks.
Please forward my email address to your wife... forget the kids, though.
Being a teacher is actually a wise decision. I may end up teaching too if I fail at business. Just prepare to teach in private schools because federal funding for Public schools will decrease.
But if our debt to income ratio (currently 50%! Nationwide we spend $150 for every $100 we earn!)
Source? That seems implausibly high. The median income is something like $35k, I find it difficult to believe that the median spending is $50k.
the promise of the American Dream up through my granparent's time was that each generation would have it better than the one before. That disappeared before I was born, I think
Absolutely false. Think about everything you take for granted today that were completely unknown 30 years ago.
It's only 25% of the population that have any luxury at all.
See above. To make this claim you have to define "luxury" to exclude stuff like cable TV and Internet access and other products that weren't available at *any* price for previous generations. Our standard of living *is* increasing, it's just that many people's expectations are rising even faster.
How to solve most of our problems: 1.Lots of nuclear plants. 2.Cure aging.
Too many business are run like kingdoms with the owner or Ceo at the top. All others must sacrifice for the kings happiness and gain. Motivation by intimidation or negativity abound, but who cares as long as the top is getting what they want. The inverted pyramid puts the workers at the top and the remaining parts of the company are there for the sole purpose of supporting and making sure the workers are happy and productive. It is a rare model and mostly found in sectors where the product or service (i.e. the money generators) are given top priority as they should. With out sales of some sort there is no revenue and with out revenue...well it's doubtful there is any profit. Remember we are talking about businesses not charities or churches, even if many are run like a business. Don't clammer about how other issues such as customer service and satisfaction are important because I didnt say profit was the only focus. Profit is just so much harder to find if part of the company that generates the revenue is not happy and productive.
Relax, aren't you lucky that it is only my Opinion?
Sounds like France. The healthcare in many European countires is crap, though. When you have free office visits with a doctor the offices over swamped with hypocondriacs so a regular visit takes longer. Emergency room trips that aren't immediately life threatening take way longer too, same reason. I know someone who had a knee operation perfored in the Netherlands, she almost lost her leg to infection. She also has some pretty bad dental work (same country) which took some pretty comprehensive work in to get right when she moved to New York.
But the retirement benefits are freakin awesome. Her husband was laid of at about 7 years away from retirement age. He received 5 years severance and the company is continuing to pay into his retirement fund until he reaches retirement age.
My fiancee and I agreed some time ago that we would never let ourselves be unhappy for money. We agreed that it would be better for the both of us to live in a shack someplace together and be happy than live in a mansion and flush our lives away working a job we hate just for a paycheck.
I actually hate money, because it's so damn easy to let yourself get stressed out by it. I make ok money in my current job, it pays my bills, I can afford to go out with my fiancee and buy my friends dinner - and I'm determined to let that be enough for right now. I have ambitions and big dreams like most other people, but at the same time, I'm willing to take a step back and say that working towards a dream doesn't make the here and now worthless or meaningless.
What's even more important than my salary is that I like my job. When I wake up in the morning, I'm not upset, angry, or disappointed that I have to go to work today. I have a decent office environment, good co-workers, and a flexible job that lets me be comfortable. I always remember something my Dad has told me many times "It's not supposed to be fun. That's why they call it work". Every time I hear that, I think the same thing; "why not?". Why can't I have a good time at work, enjoy what I do, relish the opportunities I get to learn, and be content with the general situation I find myself in? I say the key to happiness at work is just enjoying what you do. There's an old nugget of wisdom out there that says "Do what you love, and the money will follow". If you can wake up in the morning for work without feeling dread in the pit of your stomach, that's a major first step toward not burning out at work.
I was a tele-hustler in college. Best paying college job I could find, but it sucked bigtime. I hated that job, and instantly dropped it the second a lab assistant position opened up.
I cried real tears when Li Mu Bai died.
briefly, I started as a graphic designer and production artist in 1990, first working for a manufacturer, then going on my own for a couple of years--my computer skills have been valuable because I learned the technical aspects of print production, rather than just making pretty layouts--in the mid 90s, I started learning web design and multimedia (Director) --wanting to be my own boss, I started a small design biz and went on my own--during this time, I had my own clients, as well as doing freelance work inside many top ad and marketing agencies in Minneapolis. then, I went to work for a homegrown ad agency, who was actually pretty good to work for, with lots of perks, but also having to put up with typical client BS.
by 2000 i'd had enough, and moved to New York City, to get an advanced degree, learning multimedia art + design, and to see how i'd match up with the best. I was freelancing while going to school, which went fine at first, and then slowly dissipated with the dotcom bubble burst, finally falling on 9-11, which I saw from my classroom window. the next year and a half were spent trying to work out of this--I actually got a job at a remaining dot-com, but the founder split with the last 600k, and I was out of a job a week after I was hired...at this point, my rent wasn't being paid, much less my bills or student loans--also, I'd exhausted any credit I had, or even friends or parents to help me pay my bills--i was on my own, with no income and few prospects (freelance rates dropped through the floor at this time, and the competition became ever more fierce). bankruptcy was imminent...
I still kept my work studio, though, because I found I *needed* to keep working--the silver lining is that with commercial work nonexistent, I could work on my own projects--I distinctly remember waking up to go to the studio being flat broke, knowing that the financial world was closing in on me. strangely, I felt free and ok with this, becausee even though I wasn't being paid, I was going to go and work on my stuff, because that's what I do.
just when things were at their lowest, I met my future wife--she's European, and from a family of artists (and she's a geek;>--we fell in love and got married, and most of my concerns were eliminated...because my wife's father (who died when she was young) left her some money, I am able to work without having to submit to the most lucrative job--I teach interactive multimedia design and spend the rest of my time working on my own projects. Next year, I will be releasing my own creative work, (hopefully in conjunction with a major event that I am working on being a part of), while continuing to teach, and spend time with my beautiful (geek) wife...
what's the point? Surely, I got incredibly lucky, however, that luck came after I stayed true to my own self, and pursued my dream--I was willing to take less, and put in more, in order to pursue my dream, and in the end, it came back to me a thousandfold--before that, however, I gave up a steady job, where I made good money, but got very little satisfaction putting together schlock work for anybody willing to pay.
lots of people would trade places with me now, but which nobody would have done 2 1/2 years ago--I do believe that it was my willingness to stick it out to the bitter end that got me this far--that's the message that I want to send out--you *can* make your dreams come true, if you want them bad enough--they will never turn out quite like you expect in the beginning, but you can see it clearly, looking back...
corporations are like casinos--they may pay you some coin, but they'll take your heart and soul in return--I can't blame anybody who takes a corporate job to feed themselves and their families, however, it's always a tradeoff, and make no mistake, they take as much of your heart and soul as they can. In return, many of the things that you think you need are actually modern 'convenien
France. Germany. Possibly Saudi Arabia. (Really!)
...and I love it. Isn't any else here self-employed?
In 2004, I left a job as a software engineer to join the Marines as a Naval Flight Officer (think Goose from Top Gun). I was making good money ($70k 1 year out of college), had flexible hours, and had a great working environment (awesome boss and several friends), but it just wasn't satifying me.
Now as a 2nd Lieutenant with 1 year of service, I make the equivalent of $42k (tax adjusted) and am loving it. The money is more than enough for everything I want & need.
The only thing I miss is how academic & intellectual everyone was back at my job in the civilian world. Don't get me wrong; the people here are smart, but it's more in terms of technical proficiency and quick thinking. Running my own programming business on the side seems to satisfy that need, though.
Low pay, long hours, and a narcisisstic boss?
'Coz I'm there right now.
At least they don't bitch about my iTunes lib or about taking data home with me. From what I hear from other people, both are remarkable.
Stating on Slashdot that I like cheese since 1997.
I'm a very materialistic person and most things I buy are long term things that make me very happy. I bought some expensive camera equipment, some expensive woodworking equipment, an expensive computer, an expensive embroidery machine, and some expensive electronics equipment (stuff like an oscilloscope, etc.). Buddha was a sucker.
Cow Cube
I have had jobs where I had to put up with a lot of crap. The pay was always reasonable, never too crazy. The hours usually sucked, and as a norm most of the first line supervisors were clueles. Since the pay was just reasonable it fell under the "I don't get paid enough for this shit" category, so once these became unbearable, I moved on.
There have also been a couple of jobs that fall under the "damn, I *do* get paid enough to put up with shit." In that case the pay and benefits are a bit higher than usual, so you put up with the crap in the job for as long as you can hack it.
Of course, once in a lifetime you get that one job where you get paid well, people listen to you and you can pretty much get away with murder. Hell, you might even get lucky and end up working for a first line supervisor that is not an idiot. If you are one of the very few lucky bastards in this position, STFU and try to get as much as you want out of it.
Pedro
----
The Insomniac Coder
My dad can now afford to have kids, but he's 75.
That seriously makes me laugh.
That should be modded funny, no? My grandpa had 10 kids in Mexico and US border-towns during the 20s and 30s, and he fed them all, they all grew up to be responsible, and most of them went to college. This man was a hard worker: a carpenter (when there was work) and a traveling salesman. Any one of us can have kids. It's just a question of whether or not we are willing to go without a few luxuries to have them.
I know people with children who live in small trailers. Good, smart, clean kids, too.
"Having children is for people richer than me, just something I'll have to do without."
You must be poor indeed if you can't afford to do something that the poorest people have been doing for countless years. Perhaps what you really mean is that you can't afford kids AND other stuff you want. Kids are not some fun luxury. They are a part of life. Look around. Look at who can and can't afford kids. Then look at who is having them.
Have a kid. You'll realize you can't do without him.
I cried real tears when Li Mu Bai died.
Well I got a 35-hours workweek, 5 weeks paid vacation (+ about 10 holidays), free healthcare, (almost) free schooling...
No pension tho, need to save for retirement. And taxes are higher.
BTW I am a software developer in Quebec, Canada
I work for a great company (http://www.sbcs.com/ and have turned down much higher paying jobs in other locations in order to stay here. This is the only company I have ever actually enjoyed working for. I like everyone at the company (we are pretty small) and I think the company is really concerned with both the bottom line and their employees well being.
I was pretty cynical all of my prior employment - but I couldn't be happier with the way SBCS treats it's employees.
The company does hire on occassion and you can learn more about it and the work we do at our website: http://www.sbcs.com/
"You just use whatever will work for the project."
More and more I believe you use whatever the programmer knows best.
A co-worker and I working on the same project were equally efficient with him using MSVC while I used emacs and Makefiles. We both were familiar with the tools the other used, we just had our preferences and knew which worked better for us.
-elf
Sr. Software Engineer
Wizards of the Coast
A better economy means new products at a quicker rate. Maybe you're a hippie who enjoys living in a non-materialistic world, but I am not. The more products the better. The better the economy is the sooner we'll have all those fancy futuristic things in science fiction books.
Cow Cube
For almost 10 years I had a job I loved that paid well . Then the crash took it away. Now I have a cool job, almost one of a kind, but with poor pay and I have a family to take care of. At a certain point the coolness of the job doesn't make up for the stress of having trouble paying your bills every month. I suppose I could be making more but not having as much fun. Thing is, I don't mind suffering, it's the pain I put my family through that I want to avoid.
What a load of baloney! Our organisations whole performance framework drives IT people into that "management" garb, and it's a complete flop!
... Cognos once had a screen saver which said "Jobs come and go, but our carrer is always our own" .... I think they stole the quote from Fast Company magazine or something, but it's dead right.
With all the techo's moving towards a "why" and "how" attitude, we simply dont get anything done. Let me illustrate - I no longer need to actually fix the problem, I just have to manage client expectations, discuss the problem with team mates, document all the details of the problem, hold a few meetings to brainstorm solutions.
At the end of the day, we have NO real deliverables. We are all evaluated on HOW and WHY, which doent equate to anything! I can do absolutely nothing at all, but as long as I go about it properly and do it well, I'll get my company bonus, I can soak up all my annual leave, throw in some training and hey presto I've forgotten how to do anything useful at all! Thank goodness for the security of govy jobs!
As a result, my company is a cess pool for lazy workers/monkeys!
Any real programmer, thats concerned about getting the job done and actually achieving something will tell you the right language, editor and platform are EVERYTHING! A bad editor, or platform, or even a sloppy programmer/monkey on a team can have a significant impact any project.
I'm convinced the No.1 problem with pay/happiness for real monkeys/programmers is the beuracratic BS that your on about, it's devoid of any common sense.
I cant wait to get out of here!
I'd still prefer to work in a call center rather than say eking out a miserable existence in say East Africa. So I know there are worse places to be. Thankfully for me the nightmare is over. I no longer work in a call center. Though it was the worst job I ever had I will say it was the 4th highest paying job I've held. The most frustrating part of it was not having any ability to fix a customer's problem but required to tell them it was going to get fixed when in all likelihood it wasn't going to. And if it did, it would take a long time. Telling the truth wasn't an option because it would escalate to a supervisor call or they'd get even angrier than the already were. A co-worker of mine commented there was no bottom to this place. And like the character Peter Gibbons in the movie Office Space it was true. Every day there was the worst day of my life. At least when I was in basic training there was a reason for the headgames.
But what a relief to have a real job again and in my career field. I work for a small university so the pay isn't the same as the industry standard, but when industry jobs are scarce there's not much room to complain. I'm pretty happy to do the work I went to school for, sort of. Besides I could be back in that hell hole of a call center. I knew it was a temp job. I'd estimated it would take me 6 months to find a real job. I felt I could cope with the call center crap. It took me 3 fucking years! I just had to remind myself that other people were far worse off.
"You'll get nothing, and you'll like it!"
Why a 35 hour workweek? Why not less?
6 weeks of paid vacation, if you can get a job.
Free healthcare, once you wait in line. Depending on the government to stay alive and healthy? I barely trust them with my mail.
Free schooling only if you jump through the correct hoops at the correct time. And then you're limited to the subjects they think you'll be good at.
And the pension is not guaranteed. There ARE no guarantees. They'll make an honest effort to see you get it, but you might not.
And the "Slightly Larger" GDP of the US has allowed it to create far more jobs for it's workers. That's why they'll accept immigrants. And with the "Safty net" the socialist countries have, you're a burden, not a benefit. And they don't want you there.
Democrats or Republicans. They are both taking us to the same place and they are not afraid of us anymore.
As I always say: ;)
Money can't buy happiness. You can, however, rent it by the hour
putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
I'm the owner of a small Linux consulting company. One of the primary reasons I started the company was to do something different -- to be "Closer to the Heart" as Rush says. To start a company that cared about its employees, cared about it's customers, and cared about the world. To change the evil business world for the better. I set out on my mission in 1999.
Here, in 2005, I have eight employees and sell over a million dollars a year in Linux and open source based consulting services.
What I've discovered, is that every employee (and most customers too) that has worked for me, doesn't see this dream of mine as a positive. It is seen as a weakness, and each and every employee has taken each and every opportunity to exploit it. They use their personal situations and my interest in their happiness as a lever to get out of work, and to do as little possible, for the most possible monmey. They take advantage of the kindness I show them at every turn. To make me suffer, to diminish my dreams and my happiness, for the sake of their own.
Sometimes this happens consciously, sometimes unconsciously. But without exception (I've had 16 employees in the past 6 years), to each and every one I showed true care and interest for their wellbeing, their goals, their dreams. I allowed them all to set their own schedules. To work their own hours. To be goal based instead of hour based. To live their own dreams. To value their lives and family over that of the business. To learn new things at work (that I paid for) to increase their knowledge.
And the bottom line is, the sad truth of the matter that I'm now realizing is that the world just doesn't work this way. You know why companies don't look out for employee satisfaction?
It's because it's a MYTH.
Employees, in their nature, CAN NOT EVER BE SATISFIED BY THEIR BOSS or EMPLOYER. They must find their own inner satisfaction. And providing a flexible, goal oriented, family environment at work, will not motivate anyone to work harder or get better work done. All it does is give them more ability to be lazy. It even conveniently gives them an excuse for bad work -- "sorry I messed up, I was upset about something at home so I had to spend three hours at work dealing with that today, but it's totally important to my life".
So, sorry to all you dreamers out there. The world works this way because that's how people are. The corporate world will never change, it got that way because your lazy, greedy assess made it so. And now all of you have to live in the world you created.
Two final thoughts: (a) I'm hiring; (b) I'm selling my company. At least I'll get to sit on the beach, let someone else care about the world for a while, make some money at it, while I de-stress for the next, oh, ten to fifteen years.
You can feel free to email me at thomasking02@hotmail.com if you would like to.
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US workers have two advantages. We're working with expensive devices that previous workers' efforts have paid for (we're richer), and your claims to the contrary notwithstanding, we do work harder -- more hours per week, more weeks per year.
Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
Saudia Arabia? Well, if you think it's better to live in a sick, religiously oppressed society with no booze where even thinking about a naked woman will get your whatever chopped off. No wonder most of the terrorists come from there.
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Right now I'm in physics graduate school, but last year I spent working for a very small studio (and freelancing on the side) as a music teacher (and computer fixit schmuck), supplementing my income with two church jobs as a musician.
I have a feeling this is going to wind up being the happiest year of my life. It's much more satisfying to get a check and a thank-you, what-should-my-son-practice? at the end of working rather than getting some paycheck whose connection to the work you're performing is nebulous at best.
Working like this, there's a direct connection between the job you do and how well you do in business.
Judging by the tone of your comment, it's the "free" in "free trade agreements" that you object to.
Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
I believe that if you are unhappy, it doesn't matter how many toys you buy with all of the cash. You can't force yourself to be happy with material possessions. At least, I find that I can't. If I'm not happy with what I'm doing, I will quit so fast it'll make their head spin and not care all that much when it comes to money.
GJC
Gregory Casamento
## Chief Maintainer for GNUstep
So, what do you do for health insurance? I assume you have health insurance, having a kid and all.
Cute, but I have to say that I agree with Thoreau on this one. The only thing that makes us all equal is that we're only given a certain amount of time to walk the earth. Money is really not all that important when weighed against time, an individual's ultimate finite resource.
"Avoid employing unlucky people - throw half of the pile of CVs in the bin without reading them." -- David Brent
One acquaintance of mine is convinced that he's entitled to promotions because he got his ticket punched by getting a degree from a fairly decent school about two decades ago. Since that time, he's shown no initiative at all, and just whines when people he considers inferior to him pass him on the career ladder.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
>>personal income is down almost 30% nationwide.
Got a link? That sounds like a figure pulled out of someone's ass. No offense to you (or your ass), but I am curious how such a huge figure came to be.
Isn't owning the company grand?
"Avoid employing unlucky people - throw half of the pile of CVs in the bin without reading them." -- David Brent
That was about as insightful as it gets...
creation science book
Hey, maybe you can telecommute. Lord knows the only thing I'd go to Utah for is the Skiing.
"We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
My boyfriend is a build engineer on Need for Speed at EAX in downtown Vancouver. When he took the job, we knew all about EA spouse, but pretty much everything we'd heard about EA up in Canada had been positive. Apparently they'd had problems in the past, but had been markedly improving, and I have since heard rumours to back that up... but only about EAC, the main studio.
Unfortunately, as we discovered, these improvements did not extend to EAX.
He started work in May of this year, right after he graduated from university with a computer science degree. As the new guy on a pretty senior team, he knew it was going to be rough, but he's a smart and dedicated worker, so we both thought he could handle it.
Within the first couple of months, they had him working until 2am and coming in almost every weekend. By the end of summer, he had slept at the office once (on a Sunday, I might add) and rarely got a weekend off. And now we're getting into crunch time.
He's gaining weight, he feels sick all the time, he doesn't get enough sleep, he's more miserable than I've ever seen him... and they still expect him to work 80 hour weeks. On salary. With maybe a week or two off at the end of the project as his only compensation.
The money at EA may be good, but it's worthless if you don't even have time to spend it.
Happiness is a state of the mind.
Finally,everything comes down to the mind.
You may have everything,yet you maybe unhappy.
You may not have anything,yet you maybe happy.
If you've got a 35-hour workweek, 6 weeks of paid vacation every year, free healthcare, free schooling through Bachelor's-level for your kids, and a guaranteed old-age pension.... would you give it all up so you could live in a country that had a slightly higher GDP????
Exactly. You wouldn't. And this will be the ultimate downfall of socialism. People will continue voting themselves more and more benefits. Eventually it can't be paid for. It's already starting to happen in Germany, and I'm guessing it'll eventually happen here in the U.S. too.
Sure there are people who stay productive and thrive in a socialist system, but there are far too many who abuse and take advantage of it. GDP may be irrelevant, but I'll take keeping control of as much of my $$ as possible over paying the government to take care of my ever whim.
As best I can see, an employment visa for a US citizen is around $90 to India.
This answer is, for me, to quote a lyric I heard once, 'like a black hole in space -- profound but useless'.
I don't socialize. I prefer being alone. I know how to be very pleasant and helpful at work, but I do it because others will go away faster and need me less frequently than if I am not pleasant and helpful. When people 'network' with me, I feel embarrassed for them because I know they just want something from me, and they know I know it, too. So how does someone like me network without seeming like Ned the Head from 'Groundhog Day' (ecch!) ? (Please, no Asperger's references, I'm not afflicted.)
"Corps Business; the 30 Management Principles of the US Marines" ( David H Freedman ) is one of the most thrillingly delightful works on the difference between braindead business and living-business.
Skunkworks's discovery of the ( in hindsight ) obvious principle that segregation of Responsibility from Authority ( the standard way of having Shareholders / Management / Workers all doing different, anti-congruent commitments/determinations ) cannot work, seems to show that coop-business is really the only way to go. . . ( all "employees/workers/managers/leaders" are (?equal)shareholders, NO ONE else is. Therefore all decisions are made by owners and the survival of the business is inherently balanced-with the profit-motive.
I don't know why people are so averse to creating such work-structures/systems, but whomever does would seem to have a significant long-term-advantage against the short-sighted/blind paradigm of cancerous monetary-gratification-at-any-cost paradigm )
The discovery that business can weaken/erode cultural-segregation/prejudice is also useful, since it shows that business has a humanity-survival useful function that isn't obvious from the trenches. . .
( reported in new scientist, sometime in the last few years )
Also, where in hell it became necessary to make vertical-hierarchies, I don't know. . . the horizontal/flat ones seem to be more effective. . .
. . .
( PS: the absolutely-selfish-motivation that cancer expresses is expressible at other levels, not just cellular, and . ., .
yes there is a difference between community, like say the countless different kinds-of-cells of living-human-body,
as contrasted-with a commune, which couldn't be represented by anything more diverse than a fungus. .
community seems to require both diversity, complementarity and gestalt, which isn't what the belonging-drug lefties do. .
nor is it what the Defined Roles Family is OK, but 'community' NOT-ok conservatives do.
-shrug- why the political-motivation, though, since it doesn't make interesting-experiencing?, and that seems to be the only-thing one CAN take with-one. .
whatever. . . )
IPTables enhancement Fail2Ban bans cracker-login's
Another interesting phenomena I observed in an xUSSR country is life burnout. What do you think of that?
I easily recognize this "Dad" as my Pop and trust me, we didn't want him at home. We were happier without him.
Take the UK as an example:
- unemployment 4.7% (USA is 4.9%)
- Minimum holiday entitlement of 4 weeks for full time, people get 5-6 weeks with seniority
- Large scale immigration of workers from EU countries, the Far East, Indian subcontinent
- limit of 48 hours/week working. Most office jobs are 37.5-40 hours
- Free education to 18, subsidised with capped fees to Masters level
But on a per capita basis, western Europe's productivity is close to (or possibly exceeding) that of the US. The US just has a lot more people. On an hour-per-hour basis, western Europe is significantly more productive.
we do work harder -- more hours per week, more weeks per year.
That's a bit of a simplistic analysis of any massively complex stastistic. All the countries have their own methods of reporting, classification, etc...
For instance, I can see three countries (using 1994 data) on page 6 of this document: http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/8/51/2080270.pdf which exceeded the USA in the category of percentage of workers working more than 45 hours per week; Australia, Japan, and the United Kingdom. This is of OECD countries - I'd like to see figures for non-OECD too; I had a discussion about this with a Chinese guy at Uni and he said 7 day work weeks were not uncommon over there. If it comes to that, I've worked a 7 day week two or three times, too.
My girlfriend gets 37.5hrs/week flexitime, 5 weeks holiday, 'free' healthcare (actually National Insurance for ~£50/month, IIRC), a guaranteed state pension and got free education to Bachelors level (although that's changed now) in a junior admin position in the UK. I'm self-employed in the UK, but work entirely for a German company, so I see how well they treat their workers too.
I think the continental European countries do take the Socialist thing a bit far, but good working conditions aren't as bad for the economy as some Americans seem to think.
If you don't like your work you don't change it, you just in go in everyday and do it really half-assed. That's the American Way!
...and I hate it. I truly do. But it pays enough to keep me going, I live relatively close to work and I have 12 years seniority. But did I mention I hated the job?
I guess what keeps me going is having a dream and a sence of obligation towards those I love. I'm writing a book and although it'll likely never sell millions of copies (and get me out of the factory), to have it published would be a major personal accomplishment. The other motivation I mentioned is my daughters.I have a daughter that lives with me and two who live with there mother, and I don't want to be struggling with my support for them.
There is a third motivation: fear. I'm afraid of leaving this factory job for something else, only to either fail at the new job, or for the new job to fail me!
My advice (I hope you're still reading this drsquare) is to have a dream and go for it. Have a family if that is in the cards (you don't need to be rich to experience the joy of children) and be grateful for what you do have. Think about it: you have your sight, do you have all your limbs? Are you healthy (or dying of a disease)? You're employed and self-suffificient. Acknowledge and be grateful to God and He will give you more!
SEO Copywriter. Just Say ON
Read this link to know why http://infoligence.blogspot.com/
It's not as important that we always have a good time, but that we live a good life. --President James E. Faust
SEO Copywriter. Just Say ON
(Probably been said before, but...)
I think the biggest problem is that there is an expectation that ALL your satisfactions and accomplishments in life will come from your job. It used to be (meaning throughout most of the last 6000+ years) that your job allowed you to SURVIVE; any sort of satisfaction you get from life was on your own time and in your own way. It has only been in the last 50 years in First World countries that "choosing a career" that you actually ENJOY has even been possible.
I think burnout comes from failed expectations. In the States we tend to shuffle a person off from High School directly to college, pick a major, pick a career at the nice, experienced age of 21 or so that you will enjoy for the rest of your life - and there is a subliminal message, constant and surrounding almost every aspect of our lives, that we are SUPPOSED to enjoy our jobs, that they are all supposed to be fulfilling, useful work, and we are failures if we don't always enjoy what we do. Experience indicates that this is not realistic. Look at a sampling of the respondents whose answer can be summarized as, "You're a whiny, lazy bastard. Get out there and find a new job, get a better education, and become happy and not-at-all-mad like me!!!" - which of course, presupposes no other more pressing responsibilites (like taking care of a family), or allows for the fact that good, normal, smart people sometimes make bad career decisions at a young age that affect them for decades.
My father had to quit his job, his language, his country, culture, and most of his family (they didn't want to leave Europe in 1938 - not good if you were Jewish), and start all over again with a trunk of clothes at the age of 32. Yet he was always such a happy man - and he told me that one reason was he never confused his job with his real life.
Putting all your accomplishment and satisfaction eggs in the career basket is not a wise idea.
True. I found a site saying expicitly that said the average american citizen spent $1.22 for eavery $1 earned (2001 IIRC), but I couldn't find a worldbank or
Interesting tidbits:
o 0.7% of adult Americans file for bankruptcy http://www.cbo.gov/showdoc.cfm?index=2421&sequenc
o In 2003, 1.6 million Americans filed for bankruptcy, the highest amount in history. (Amer. Bankruptcy Inst.)
o 43% of American families spend more than they earn. (Federal Reserve)
o Americans carry an average credit card debt of more than $8,500. (Motley Fool)
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/Georgecg_123281
I suspect the "$150 for every $100" figure would have to be an overall figure on the American economy (which includes government and corporations and trade - everything).
After having to deal with passive-aggressive clients for his contracted software design work a friend of mine decided to open his own company. Having to deal with people that play games in the work environment is what's killing the modern job, it seems that no one has any balls any more. Rather than come right out and ask an employee for something they beat around the bush, and then get upset when the employee doesn't deliver. Plus, to top it all off everyone is hyper-sensitive and has gripes about feeling comfortable in their position.
If everyone would just grow some balls most of these problems in the business environment would be worked out. We are moving further and further away from a harmonious existence with all of these sensitivity laws. Once people begin to take responsibility for their own actions, good and bad, people will naturally feel a greater sense of pride in their achievements.
Those who know, do not speak. Those who speak, do not know. ~Lao Tzu
~25 days vacation is pretty much standard in the EU.
Other than that, I think every boss I've ever had has done the old "we need you to work on Sunday, we'll buy you guys pizza!" trick. It took a few years, but eventually I started to feel like my Sunday is not worth $5 worth of junk food, and have been tempted to ask what kind of project management requires me to come in and work on Sunday instead of setting reasonable deadlines where the all that extra overtime isn't necessary.
Honestly, one year after the project is finished, will it have mattered whether or not it launched a month later? And if it had, nobody'd have had to work on Sunday. But everything is rushed out as fast as possible for purposes of corporate ass-kissery and keeping up appearances within the company. Such is the corporate world.
self employed working for a single company? Careful man, the inland revenue might push them to put you on their payroll... Well, that's just IF they decide to investigate, but if you are claiming travelling expenses from your (presumably) home office to your client's, you might not find it so hot when that gets disputed... Cheers mate!
College career counseling is dead, but ten million Slashdot readers have risen to take it's place.
When I was a kid, I worked in a bakery. I worked alone most of the time and had widely varied duties.
For several months my opinions on various weighty matters were taken into account and even acted on, despite me being a teenager. Business got better, and I gained respect.
The a decree came down from on high that the overarching company management wanted to "increase productivity" and polish the store's "image". So the entire place was completely torn apart and rebuilt in a way that made no sense just so it'd look better in pictures the consultant submitted to the corporate PHBs.
Business suffered, my opinion was no longer worth squat, and everyone stopped caring. No one bothered to work hard at anything and the place became a mess.
That bakery went out of business because they didn't recognize the importance of employees who cared about what they're doing.
What I see happening in the US is the opposite, but with the same effect. People are voting themselves more and more tax cuts. Already these can't be paid for.
Sshh, they might hear :-)
Being serious for a moment, everything is above board, I spent many hours sorting everything out with the various accountants involved. When one client has enough work available that I could basically work 7 days a week for the next year and still have to cut features from the product, having more than one client is a little unnecessary.
Thankfully for neurosurgeons they don't work in IT, or they'd be underqualified for most jobs. The requirements for a short contract job to write a "hello world" program at close to minimum wage (and without extras like appreciation or respect) is often along the lines of:
35 years of experience in C, C++ (as well as D E and F!), Java, DotNet, senior DBA skills, exact desired skillset including a half dozen weird apps no one's ever heard of before, and at least a BSc. You'll get to work 80h/week or more (not OT pay), with people that hardly know their left from their right, the old workplace politics, and management will change their requirements every 3 days, and still expect you to finish in time. Having all of these 53 certs is a bonus.
It would be funny if it wasn't so close to reality.
///<sig
Interesting. Why didn't you use France or Germany for an example? Or an average?
If you're not going to be honest in your arguements, then discussing these things with you is a waste of time.
Democrats or Republicans. They are both taking us to the same place and they are not afraid of us anymore.
You said, The good jobs will be shipped overseas while all the crappy jobs that suck like service jobs, these will stay.
Well, if you are smart enough to see that, what are you doing to be certain you have a good job? Are you learning Chinese? Are you cultivating Chinese friends? Indian friends?
Stop your complaining and do something constructive to help yourself. Don't be a bitch to the politicians. Get your bull, wagon, hourse and family packed up and head west, young man. Head west!
Don't expect welfare, you've been warned.
Because the UK is a midpoint that seems to be working reasonably well. We have fairly good protection for employees, combined with pretty good economic performance. I agree that overly large socialist states are not a good thing - that doesn't mean that the opposite is any better. I believe Germany is going to be reforming to a less socialist system fairly soon, anyway.
Why use France or Germany as an example? France has taken socialism to an extreme, while Germany is still reeling from the effects of incorporating the East.
Why not take the UK, Ireland, Belgium or any of the Scandanavian countries? Finding employment in these countries is no more difficult than it is in the US. On the other hand, if you are unemployed/poor/sick, you won't be left in the gutter by your government.
Your arguements (sic) are the ones that are dishonest.
37-hour week, though many people put quite a bit more than that in their jobs.
5 weeks of paid holiday. (And a few "extras")
Free schooling through masters level (M.Sc.). You have to get good grades to get into popular studies like humanities, medicine etc. though. Students receive a government grant (not to be repaid) of about $600/mo.
Guaranteed old age pension. I'd recommend topping it off with your own savings though.
OTOH, there's a 180% (one hundred and eighty!) tax on cars, VAT is 25% and if you hit upper middle class income you'll pay about two thirds of your last earned krone in income tax..
Not to mention that even with a well-paying job, the guy flipping burgers isn't that far behind you on the scale. This is of course reflected in the price of your fries.
Any sufficiently advanced libertarian utopia is indistinguishable from government.
- 35 hrs to 40 hrs workweek
- 30 paid days on vacation i.e. 6 Weeks
- "free" healthcare 50/50 you, your employer. Thats about 7% of gross income.
- free schooling, free university
- old-age pension, about 10% of gross income (50/50 you, your employer)
- 12-month unemployment insurance (you pay about 5% of your gr. income)
Or you could accept that all life is suffering and that the path to contentment is accepting this basic truth! ...that Budda, what a barrel of laughs that geezer was.
I have worked for a handful of companies in my IT career so far. there has to be a balance between quality of life, and pay. the high pay can only carry you through for so long. when you're stuck at an employer that does not care about your quality of life, it will be miserable. i was stuck at a company that really didn't give a crap about anybody's personal issues, time, or off-hours time spent working. they basically wanted you to put in 50-60 hours a week and enjoy it. no such thing as comp time. so if you were on call and were up all night, better be at your desk by 8am the next morning or you'll be written up for it. or you can choose to take personal time if you needed to sleep in.
F that. i could only take that crap for so long. the company i'm at now (happens to be privately held) will bend over backwards for their employees. funny thing is i put in more hours and do more work now than before, because i actually enjoy working. my boss is extremely understanding of everyone's personal needs. you need to take an hour off to go to the stupid DMV on your lunch break? No problem... eventualy you'll give that hour back on an off-hours call anyway, so go ahead.
lots of things like that. if you find yourself stuck working for a PHB and can't stand it anymore.... you might be at the wrong company.
(fat) Pay = Happiness (fat)Pay == Happiness :-)
Scott McNealy to Michael: "Suck my Sun!" Michael Dell to Scott : "Lick my Dell!"
Germany doesn't have free healthcare, it's insurance based.
...but you can sure as hell buy me!
Pay all the way! Whoo hoo!
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
I recently changed jobs because my former employer had no vision or direction and because they didn't give two-shakes of a dog's tail about their employees. I didn't just quit and go take the first job to come along. I spent four months interviewing with my current employer and have been with the company now for six months. Generally, I would have expected the luster to have been lost by now, but I continue to get the sense that this is a company that actually cares about their employees. This is reflected in a number of outward, articulatable ways: good benefits (time-off, options plans, retirement plans, healthcare coverage, etc.), employee rewards (if you get an excellence awared, for doing a bang-up job, you get to pick your reward from a catalog), 'attaboys' in the company-wide newsletter (when a customer calls in to a manager praising one of their employees, the manager will publish the attaboy), as well as an active "health" committee that sponsors employee outtings to gyms, healthy eating, and less objective activities. There is also a subjective sense around the office that the company cares -- when I was hired, I had lunch with our ceo, the director of HR sat down with me and made sure I was comfortable with the people in my area, the job, with my understanding of the benefits and P&P type bits, etc... This is not a small company (in fact, they're owned by one of the top 10 on the Fortune 1000), and yes we're hiring, but unfortunately I'm not going to publish the name of my employer on slashdot.
Having had a few jobs in my carreer (from help-desk lacky to software engineer to network engineer to security dork to network & security dork), I've come to know what I'm looking for in a company. There are good employers out there, but I'll be the first to admit that there aren't many. Job satisfaction is a three pronged fork: the employer, the employee and the job. there are bad employers and there are bad employees and there are bad jobs. No one thinks they're a bad employer or a bad employee. If you're honest with yourself, I think you'll see there are imperfections in your work ethic and in your professional veneer that make you less than a perfect employee or employer. Job satisfaction is as much about retaining perspective about the people you work with and the compensation you receive as it is about the work that you do. Geek purists may disagree, but they're not going to be reasoned with regardless; nor are hard-line employers.
Good jobs are out there. Keep looking and keep positive.
"This above all, to thine own self be true"
Read TFA with interest and some amusement.
;-)
I wonder how much job satisfaction the guy working on an assembly line really has - especially considering he makes about half my salary?
I don't make big bucks, I make medium bucks and part of the reason I get paid those bucks is to put up with crap like unrealistic deadlines and upper-level managers who shouldn't be allowed access to the Internet or to read the latest IT comic book and have me drop everything and implement Their Current Stupid Idea.
I used to freelance. I can make about twice what I'm making now by working as a consultant, but you know what? I don't like to hustle and am not cut out to run my own business. Here I just show up, do what they tell me to do and I get a paycheck every two weeks. I *never* work overtime, get to travel a bit half a dozen times a year and make a mid-to-high 5-figure salary for the privilege.
I have little sympathy for those making $70k or more and whine about their station in life - perhaps they should try flipping burgers for awhile?
Job stress is real - so if you don't like your situation, change it. If you want to spend more time with your family that means you need to work less. If you have a spousal unit who can pick up the slack that's all the better, but I believe quality of life is a balance between responsibility, relaxation and recreation. Somebody a lot smarter than me said that there were 8 hours to work, 8 hours to sleep and 8 hours to play in any given day and that if one varied from that by very much they'd be pretty miserable.
My hat's off to anyone who gives up the ratrace and follows their dream - they have a lot more courage than I do. But - the job I do is a direct result of choices I've made - and if I want things to be different then I guess I need to make different choices
we see things not as as they are, but as we are.
-- anais nin
I have a position similar to what you are talking about. I'll admit, the job satisfaction is high.
I've always like programming for the creative problem solving involved. But when you take a project not just from the project definition but from the "how are we going to do this" that starts it all, there is so much more enjoyment. What I do and how I do it has a big impact on the internal workings of the organization.
Now, granted it's not a big organization...
Star Pirates
It entirely missed the point. The concept of globalization was supposed to raise everyone's standard of living...instead, the forces behind it seem hellbent on impoverishing the average American. What I don't understand is how someone who (presumably) has alot of lose as a result can stand up and say how where you were born is as unfair as being a prince or not while totally ignoring the growing disparity between rich and poor in this country. Britney Spears acts like a whore and Paris Hilton is a lazy retard with rich parents. Is that any more fair?
so you're saying the only job that's really satisfying is.. 'idle millionaire playboy'. I've scoured the job adverts, but I havn't found any of those..
One thing that my job has taught me is that skillsets have no value once they get past asskissing & denouncing your cow-orkers.
All of these are sadly VERY real.
Give somebody bad marks on a peer review? Get a job in Data Security or other promotion.
Be on the Selection Team that picks a REALLY bad product? Get a job with that company & have glowing reviews from our mgt if you kissed ass.
Have people written up for "unauthorized screen savers"? Go to Data Security.
Kiss bosses ass with lots of pretty charts & graphs when he needs them? You've got a VP job.
Hire people away from vendors and customers? Cause one customer to drop a paying contract because of it? Get over 100k$ a year salary.
Show a "chosen one" to be wrong in private and then prove it at a meeting when the idiot ignored what you told them? You're Fired.
Tell the truth to a division head as why crap software MkII isn't working and locking up systems when asked directly? Be glad they didn't press charges when they fired you.
Try to pull of a company merger with a customer that was hostile to begin with and have them to drop a contract even if they have to pay $500k to terminate early?
It's Board of Directors for life for you. With the salary at well over $100k.
As a tech, find a TON of porn, warez & spyware on the boss's son's PC that he divirted staff to fix & then try defend yourself when the kid screws it back up & says it's the tech's fault? BAM!! Instafired.
Be the kid in the above PC show...Get hired as often as you like as an intern in the company.
Spend over $500k to buy new hardware that suddenly falls out of favor due to a software fault and have to sell it back at $50k? Get job as CFO 'cause you kiss ass.
Like my job?
No, I don't.
Tolerate it because my family needs to eat & have a roof over ther heads?
Yes.
Is that all the tales?
No, but I'm starting to get sick.
Most of the folks who "gave it all up to be happy" already had the $$$ pile to make sure they were happy.
And this concludes today's round of miserable cynical remarks.
I am fortunate to work in a position requiring craftsmanship and precision. The company does treat us well, protestations from the pUnion people are considered background noise except in extreme cases. I like my job but do not like the restrictions on merit advancement which are encumbered by a union. I do however like the blanket protections a union provide. It would be a risk for me to jump to a a position not covered by the union safety net but the pay and benefits are outstanding.
I'd go on a Vegan diet but the delivery time from Vega is too long. --brownkitty
I'll never understand why people think that countries that still practice polygamy are so much more sexually repressed than the US. Sure, they have other problems, but didn't anyone ever notice that a Saudi man's ideal of the afterlife is what, 47 virgins? That's very different than the Christian view of singing hosanna's to the Lord for all eternity.
For me, a sense of accomplishment is extremely important. Sometimes at the end of the week/day I find myself asking "what was actually accomplished?". So to remedy this, I started keeping a simple to-do list text file with tasks that need to be done and marking them "cleared" once I finished them. This probably sounds pretty basic to most, but it helps... The benefit is two fold since it helps with the short term sense of achievement AND provides focus for what needs to be accomplished. I've tried using other "Task" programs yet the notepad doc seems to work best.
Do NOT say that employers are responsible for YOUR retirement. What are we teaching our next generation? That is it someone else's responsibility to take care of us in our old age.
Ummm, yeah? Why is this a BAD thing?
To expect that, after having worked for 40%-60% of your entire life, slept for 30% cause you are so damn tired of from your shit job, and having about 10% of your life to actually enjoy,
that you should, at the end, find comfort in knowing that before your time ends you will actually have some peace.
Yeah, I can see how you could be so fired up. WE MUST STOP THE INSANITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
" I've run 7 businesses in the 15 years I've been in business "
I can understand how you consider yourself competent enough to give advise and provide an opinion. You build a business, hire people to run it, and then run it and them into the ground?
And Finally...
To blame employers for this VERY complex situation is ridiculous, and I believe the author is a nut job to try to let other people try to spread the responsibility on those who were not responsible.
How can you NOT hold some of the responsibilities? Sure it is complex and sure its not ALL your fault.
But forcing overtime, reducing benefits and wages, firing and hiring to force greater production, all in the name of profitability is chasing the phoenix across the plains. It will never stop.
You, and those like you, FORCE people into "being more productive" or "go the extra mile", not only to increase their position in life, but now, merely to maintain it. Perhaps you are comfortable in stating that, without work, we should all live as vagrants, I however, have not so little opinion of my fellow man.
Opinion:=TMyOpinion.Create(Me);
I've worked all kinds of job for all kinds of employers. There's one common thread - you are a resource to be used at the discretion of your employer. I've been down the road of 'serious career' and it goes nowhere. More time than I've cared to count, I've watched honest, decent employers make the cold decision to burn out people like candles, so that the company can continue to exist. When it gets right down to it, they are going to do what it takes to ride the corporate ship into the sunset.
So, my advice is this: Get as much money as you can without putting in huge hours. Find your happiness elsewhere. Be upfront about overtime in the interview. 90% of the time the employer will flat out lie to you, if you are going into a high-tech sweat shop. As long as you made your intentions clear up-front, there's no guilt when you say, "I have other commitments," and even less guilt when you make your way out of there.
To help avoid finding yourself in a place where burnout is S.O.P., you can use what I call the "old man test." Look around on the interview. See any old men? If not, it's probably a place that tosses employees out every time they change light bulbs. Another thing you need to worry about is responsibility creep. This is especially bad if you are a jack of all trades sort of person. As time goes on, a job that was decent grows into a monster. If you have the sort of personal skills which allow you to refuse taking on new tasks, you probably aren't a Slashdot regular. It's tough because you need to walk the line between being useful and being a catch-all. In general, I find that most technical employees are allowed very little leeway in refusing new tasks.
Anyway, that's what I strive for: Decent pay for a decent day's work. I'm not out to change the world from the office. I just want some money for some of my time. That's really all your employer wants too. I've got my own interests outside the office. I don't expect my job to grant me my character or reason to live. Take it all personally, and you are just setting yourself up to be serially used and discarded.
For a while after I got laid off, I kept COBRA coverage (the company paid for the first two months of it). I was considering a plan through my local chamber of commerce, but then my wife went back to work - she'd taken the first 2 1/3 years off after our son was born. Her job provides the insurance - though preschool is almost as expensive as insurance would be.
But the way we have things now, I work mainly Monday-Friday, she works Tuesday-Saturday (her job is one that has her on the road in the area servicing retailers). So we each have a solo day with our son, and then one day together as well. That keeps the preschool cost down a little, and gives us more quality time.
Were I single, I'd be able to afford individual insurance without too much effort, but family coverage is pricey. There's no real price difference for one child families versus multi-child families on most plans I've seen.
-- Josh Turiel
"2. Do not eat iPod Shuffle."
Accomplishment, etc, may be nice, but (take it from someone who worked his way to it, according to a psychologist friend) burnout comes from day-in, day-out, week-in, week-out, month-in, month-out exhaustion - working lunches, 10 and 12 and 14 hour days, working under upper management's "whatever it takes" dictum.
But no, we don't need no steenkeeng unions to fight for better working conditions like shorter days, and occasional weekends where you are *NOT* on call, or....
mark
dada21, you stated in the gp post:
and now you state:
Is this true? I ask you, in earnest, have you really been running businesses since you were sixteen years old? That is remarkable. And seven businesses, no less. That could be remarkable, too, or not, depending on how you exited those ventures. If they ended in buyouts, it bodes well, but if they ended in closings, well...
It's such a fine line between stupid and clever.
What I do not like about living in the US is how everything "seems" to be centered around materialism; You are what you make. You are your reputation. You are the car you drive. You are the suit you wear. In short. You are not "you".
True, but that is because you allow things to be that way.
My co-workers are convinced that if the engine in my car blows up on the way to work, I find a way to drive it anyway. There are likely right. (Already one cycinder is not running)
I refuse to let my car rules my self image. There are material things I want that I don't need, and I might buy them someday.
Well, I once knew a girl who wanted to become a lawyer so she could "buy a Porsche". We had something going, but when I heared that, it was an instant no-go. I might be a geek desperate for sex, but I'm not that desperate. She quit school a year later. It's not money that matters, it's passion.
You might be interested to read this story and the thread that ensued [with more than 1200 replies and more than 15,000 views]:
One chick in particular, a BMW-driving lawyerette, took quite a hammering from her fellow posters.Yeah, well, I know rich people who are burned out, and normal people who are burned out. The rich people at least get to enjoy something. It really really sucks to be burned out AND not have money. And nothing quite kicks a job you love in the nuts more than not being able to live while doing it. My wife studied what she loves: French and linguistics. She taught for several years, but that job had more downs than ups. She had to quit (what she loved) to keep her sanity.
But, funny thing. The rich people I know seem to enjoy $400 shirts and bragging about ... spending money. I know one guy who is rich. I mean RICH. He has to buy things, that is all he knows how to do. $350k for a car? People oooh and ahhhh over it - then they get on with their lives. He has a trophy wife, but is always out at the strip clubs. He is successful - more successful than I will probably ever be in my entire life. He has spent more on 1 car than I have earned in my entire career of 12 years. And he is younger than me. He has things I will never have. But this morning, before I left home, I peeked in on my daughter sleeping in her crib. I stood there just watching her for a few minutes. He can keep his fucking car.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
As best I can see, an employment visa for a US citizen is around $90 to India.
That's officially- read the fine print. You can't get that visa unless the company you're working for is ready to put in $3 million investment in India. Which is fine for say, Microsoft or IBM, but for some of the smaller contracting companies that would LOVE to have an American project manager overseeing a sweatshop of Indian Programmers- it's not reachable.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
if you want to call me dependent on my wife, that's fine--I'd infinitely much rather be in that situation than dependent on some corporate crumbs...
whatever. i made it to the other side. it's nice. hope you can make it.
Trust me you don't want a larger penis. (Unless you are extremely tiny). A large penis is more of a curse than a blessing.
Plus every female friend gets accused of sleeping with you by their significant other. Wouldn't be so bad if it was true. I hate being accused of something that I wished was true.
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Source? That seems implausibly high. The median income is something like $35k, I find it difficult to believe that the median spending is $50k.I don't- I own a house, I know what my expenditures are like. However, this isn't PERSONAL spending- it's overall personal and CORPORATE spending. And BTW- the median personal income is actually $26k. It's gone down since 2000, rather severely. Median personal spending is $108 for every $100 earned- so median personal spending would be more like $28k. Personal debt is NOTHING in comparison to Corporate Debt, which in turn is rather small in comparison to Government debt- and it's all three together that were reported on Air America Radio for the $150 for every $100 earned figure.
Absolutely false. Think about everything you take for granted today that were completely unknown 30 years ago.
None of which has created a higher standard of living. The average family in 1950 could survive on a single 40-hour-a-week paycheck. The average family today needs two incomes and sometimes six to survive. That's a severe destruction of standard of living; we've got fancier toys but actual survival is much, much harder.
See above. To make this claim you have to define "luxury" to exclude stuff like cable TV and Internet access and other products that weren't available at *any* price for previous generations.
Yes- as technology marches on what was once luxury becomes necessity- that's a given. In 1700 they didn't have showers, so what's your point?
Our standard of living *is* increasing, it's just that many people's expectations are rising even faster.
Technology does not add to standard of living- being able to afford the basics of food, clothing, shelter, clean water & adequate medical care is standard of living. Luxury when talking about standard of living is being able to obtain those items without worrying about paying the basic bills. Sure we have color TVs and internet access- but neither one of those do you any good when that interest-only loan hits the balloon payment and your family is homeless.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
Correct- and for personal only I use the much more conservative figure of consumer debt vs income, which is $108 for every $100 earned.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
First off, have you considered some people actually DO want to work corporate? For a long time (read: college) I enjoyed the stability of a corporate job. I did a good job, left work at the door on my way out, and enjoyed a stable paycheck. Now I graduated I am changing my motivation and starting to play corp. games. I (and I am certain I am not alone) get my rocks off the interplay of power, motivation, and achieving a larger goal. I still leave work at the door when I leave, but now I put in more effort during the day. It's a switch from the passive to the active. Other people around me seem to like to manage people, and where better would that be than in corp. life? There are thousands of examples on why people choose to go white collar. "What's the point?" - my point is though corporate work is clearly not for you, don't crap on it and assume it is not for anyone.
Second, explain this loss of soul? I am not kidding. I want an explanation. Articulate an answer. Send me a message, or post a reply. I would like to see how far this rabbit hole goes. Is this some sort of Heidiggerian "eclipse of Being" argument? What, because ones work some how must be married to my soul? Though I dig my current position (and I am maneuvering to something more up my ally later), it really has no bearing on what I do outside of these doors. At the basest level I work to sustain my live style out of work. I am certain that if my coworkers around me saw me after hours they would be quite shocked. I have independent thought. I can divide my work and non work. I would contend that you are flat out wrong on any "loss of soul". Perhaps tapping your finances dry, becoming a burden to family and friends, and in the end ignoring the means to your end is quite "soulless". Really - you don't seem to care about the people you negatively impacted to sustain your existence. Wow. That's cold.
Third, "if your dream is real" statement. Ouch. So there is a method of measuring realness of dreams? Wow... what an ego. Please what's the formula? I have a friend who's only goal is to make a crap ton of money, because money facilitates freedom (to him). He couldn't care less where he is, but as long as he is raking in the loot he's a happy camper. Again, articulate something here. I say your generalizations are not real, and thus if you get real ones we can communicate! *smirk*
I add this fourth criticism for my philosophy teacher in college. Exactly how do pragmatism and a rational/logical universe meet? They are not mutually exclusive.
As you so eloquently said, "what's my point"? My point is multi fold: get off your high artistic horse and stop bashing corporate life just for being corporate, articulate arguments - it helps people understand your position, marrying rich - wow - as Conner Oberst (sp) said "I would rather be working for a paycheck instead of trying to win the lottery", don't dictate reality to me or my state of soul, if you actually didn't meet your rich wife we wouldn't be hearing from you now, and without corporate life a good chunk of what you take for granted wouldn't exist.
Yup, that's about sums it up. Now if you don't mind I have to get to an "evil corporate" meeting where we exclude happy go lucky artists, and assist in fine tuning the international system of life.
Much love, Modi
Sweet coincidence, the word to confirm I am not a script is "profit". I say that's a pretty good sign that corporate workers got something going on right!
Check us out at our website...
- Andrew
I recall reading something once (sorry, I don't have the original reference) that said most people would rather receive praise in front of their co-workers by their supervisor than an anonymous $50 bonus in their paycheck.
... as long as the praise is genuine.
Granted, that's always going to be a personal preference, but my own experience both as a grunt and as a manager has shown this to be generally true
I don't have a direct link, because I found this out myself reading a bunch of raw data from http://www.dol.gov/ and http://www.census.gov/. The 30% is a pull-out-of-my-ass number, the actual decrease was from $35k/year median salary to $26k/year median salary. Since you challenged me- this is a $9000 decrease, which actually makes it 25.714285714285714285714285714286%, so a bit better than I thought. Thank you.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
in 20-30 years, the average Indian will be able to afford the same luxuries and as the average American
And vice versa, I hope? My wife would love to have someone to cook and clean for us, as my H1-B friends from India say that most everyone has back at home.
Plus it would be nice to be able to buy a house and other goods for 1/20th the cost and have higher speed internet.
If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
I know what you mean, I've had to learn alot about tolerance, which is good for ya. And dealing with energy vampires- those that are never content until they make you as miserable as they are. They take more than garlic- you need a completely stable center. As difficult as it is, do you think you're a better person for it?
I've never quite understood the idea of "better" and "worse" people to begin with- must be something in my Asperger's. As far as I'm concerned, people are people and I treat them as such within the limits of my ability. My if-then-else model is a bit more complete now, and I mask my inadequacy better, though. I've got a ton of e-mails from my current contract showing a 98% success rate with customer service. So in that way, I guess I'm a better person.
True, except the fuckers will probably take the money and run and screw everybody.
Well, there is that- the key that I'm working on is building a separate-from-my-standard-contract business on teaching the Internet to the Baby Boomers- who don't currently have a clue but will soon have plenty of time in retirement to get one.
Definitely. It's already happening. Eastern Europe has been in the mix for a while with desperate wage slaves to exploit, Cambodia, etc. The march to pay less will continue until there's no one else for WalMart to squeeze. Just like the British Empire most recently. Already, surprisingly, many poor nations are touting higher costs and better work conditions as a market differentiation. It's gaining steam, and I like to think it's goodwill and an understanding of how the universe works as much as PR appeal, but who knows.
The problem is if you're in a family that was never quite rich to begin with- but assumed that hard work + good education = good life. My son is going to learn the lessons early on that what makes a good life has to come from inside- not out. And that unlike the experience of say, the GI Generation and before- hard work and education mean next to nothing if you don't like yourself first.
ps. A large percentage of things labeled "Made in Italy" are not, because of their very lax labeling laws. Romania especially is making a huge chunk of these products.
As if anybody would notice if they just stamped it "Made in Romania" and sold it for 1/10th the price anybody else could.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
I don't get great pay at the tiny business where I work, but I work with 2 other people that are very easy to get a along with. There are no ego or personality conflicts. My boss isn't an idiot, he used to be a programmer too. I make my own schedule. Plus when I look out my window I see 40 acres of rolling hills, have access to a 200 yard shooting range, and get plenty of hand-me-down hardware and goodies.
So pay isn't everything. Besides, a lot of the best things in life are free.
I think the best way to get pay and happiness is run your own (successful!) business.
And vice versa, I hope? My wife would love to have someone to cook and clean for us, as my H1-B friends from India say that most everyone has back at home.
I doubt it unless we're willing to accept a caste system that regulates some people by birth to such roles.
Plus it would be nice to be able to buy a house and other goods for 1/20th the cost and have higher speed internet.
That's for sure.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
For starters, I've never had a $60K a year job. I've certainly done work where you'd assume or expect that's what I was paid, but actually - more like around $48K was about the most I've seen (and not for quite some time, at that!).
Also, by the mere fact that I do have a kid, almost *everything* changes. For starters, there are a number of jobs I've had to skip over applying for because working in rotating shifts was one of their requirements. (How can you find someone who will take care of a 3 year old for you when you're alternating working mornings, days, and late nights every month or two?) In fact, even "overtime" is extremely troublesome for me, since I have to pick my kid up from daycare no later than 6PM each day. I don't have the option of just "agreeing to work late" with no advance notice, if something comes up. And many of today's employers simply expect that. That's why they're looking to hire people fresh out of college, who don't have a family yet to "get in the way".
I always followed the majority of your listed "points for 16 year olds to learn from" - but a few of them just aren't realistic. For example, I always knew renting was a bad deal - but when I first moved out of my parents' house, I ended up renting an apartment with a roommate. At that point in time, I didn't have any credit history built up yet, nor did I have money for a downpayment on a house. But it was still time to move out (or just become a leech off of my parents - which I don't believe in doing either). When I got the opportunity, I did buy a small house (for well below market value, no less), and pay less on my mortgage each month than some people pay on their car loans. Waiting until a home is fully paid off to get married is ridiculous adivce, IMHO. Marriage should happen whenever 2 people in love with each other feel it's the right step to take. It really shouldn't be governed by how much property someone has paid off. Assuming a healty, normal relationship - both partners should simply be committed to the job of trying to get through life together. If part of that means both people doing their part to keep payments current on a house, so what?
Your point #7, by the way, is very questionable advice in my opinion. That's exactly what I did, and I feel quite certain it's one of the biggest mistakes I made! When you work for small businesses, you don't end up with any recognizable/respectable names of employers to put on your resume, nor do you gain experience working in many scenarios that are only available to people in a very large workplace. Hiring managers see big company names on a resume, and feel more "secure" in a decision to hire you. There's an assumption that a large business has the resources to do more complete background checks and so forth; If you were good enough to get and keep a job with one of them for a length of time, you're probably good enough for the next position too. When you work for small places, it looks more suspicious - like perhaps the business owners were just personal friends who hired you as more of a favor?
Judging by the tone of your comment, it's the "free" in "free trade agreements" that you object to.
Yes- but perhaps not in the way you think. I object to it because it's a lie- NOTHING in these trade agreements encourage freedom for most of the people they affect.
In capitalistic theory, a free market requires perfect knowledge- both the buyer and the seller need to know the average price of recent sells of the item to be able to bargain effectively. Ideally, they should also both know the full costs involved in production, to arrive at a fair price.
But these international trade agreements, seemingly on purpose- hide the origin and therefore the costs from the end consumer. Likewise, it hides the end consumer's willingness to pay from the original creator of the physical good in question. The only winner in this so-called "free trade" system that actually isn't is the middle man- who is able to buy low from the manufacturer and sell high to the end consumer, sometimes making as much as a 100%-300% markup. (A good example is what Wal*Mart forced Ohio Arts to do with etch-a-sketch. They used to hit a $15 price point easily, with a good profit for both Wal*Mart and Ohio Arts, on $9.50/hr factory floor salaries and cheap plastic. Wal*Mart wanted a $8.99 price point- forcing them overseas. Now Ohio Arts pays $.24/hr in China- $.10 less than official chinese minimum wage- so where they used to have about $3 worth of parts, and an hour to put them together, their unit cost went far down- but the consumer is still paying the $8.99).
This is not a free market- it's a hidden costs market.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
The recent literature on the topic shows that people adjust to increases in wealth very quickly. More money is definitely not the answer for direct happiness. See Loewenstein & Frederick, 1997.
So he lied.
On his resume and in the interview, he bullshitted his way through, and somehow got the job. As the story goes, he spent the next week (he was to start in a week) CRAMMING everything about the language he was supposed to use and know - and when he walked in on the first day, it was found he was one of the top-coders there. I don't remember any of the details, and I don't have the book nearby. IIRC, he went on to become the company president or something like that.
I guess the story shows that if you want something badly enough, are willing to work extremely hard for it, and are willing to stretch the truth or bald-face lie, anything is possible...
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
IIRC, it was Ken Williams of Sierra Online - the first company he worked for as a programmer, he did this, then went on to found Sierra Online. At least, I think he is the guy I am thinking of...ugh.
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
Given the choice, I'd take a dad who loves me, teaches me, and spends time with me over one who buys me lots of cool stuff. But I suppose there is a balance to be struck.
Information wants to be anthropomorphized!
I'm reminded of Sean Connery in The Rock:
"I'll do my best."
"Your best? Losers always whine about their best. Winners go home and fuck the prom queen."
and BTW- the median personal income is actually $26k. It's gone down since 2000, rather severely.
I wouldn't call this severe. The drop is consistent with other recessions.
Personal debt is NOTHING in comparison to Corporate Debt, which in turn is rather small in comparison to Government debt- and it's all three together that were reported on Air America Radio for the $150 for every $100 earned figure.
I'd still need to see a breakdown of the figures. Statistics like that are easy to fudge; for example the recent reports that the US has a zero percent savings rate are only obtained by ignoring stuff like 401k contributions.
None of which has created a higher standard of living.
The millions of people buying Tivos and iPods presumably believe otherwise.
Yes- as technology marches on what was once luxury becomes necessity- that's a given. In 1700 they didn't have showers, so what's your point?
My point is that we're better off now that we do have showers.
Luxury when talking about standard of living is being able to obtain those items without worrying about paying the basic bills. Sure we have color TVs and internet access- but neither one of those do you any good when that interest-only loan hits the balloon payment
You can always cancel your cable and Internet service to free up cash. Now if you've taken on more debt than you can afford even after getting rid of nonessential spending then you're screwed, but nobody made you sign up for that interest-only loan.
How to solve most of our problems: 1.Lots of nuclear plants. 2.Cure aging.
My SO is from the Philippines and always had separate servants for cooking, clothes cleaning, house cleaning, car driving (chauffeur), and if needed, child care. She had all of the above (except the last) while having a monthly income of $1000 which was a princely sum a decade ago. Simultaneously she was supporting living expenses of a dozen immediate relatives and putting several through college, while still having cash for a nice apartment and glamorous night life.
It's an interesting thought experiment to imagine what US life will be like without cheap energy to drive technology and resource surpluses (post-Peak Oil), combined with competition with a flat world economy resulting in new labor surpluses (post-Technology-Outsourcing). If we had half brain among the lot in the White House, we'd be working to maintain the existing balance through innovation in energy, if for no other reason, we know how to do that, but we don't know how to live in a labor surplus and do it well - other nations have already honed that skill and have far larger labor surpluses than we can ever create.
http://www.dol.gov/esa/regs/compliance/whd/fairpay /fs17a_overview.htm
It appears the minimum pay for an exempt employee is $23,660/year.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
The article keeps saying outsourcing results from high burnout rates. I say it results from lack of opportunity. Let's face it. Most American jobs are symbolic, stationary, and not very rewarding. Most Asian jobs are functional, upwardly mobile, and more rewarding. Of course Americans are going to burn out and have their jobs moved to Asia, because it's easier to do something that pays for your housing and leads to a better life than to do something that just pays the next month's rent.
Where in u.s. can you make enough money for a house or expect to have a bigger title next year? In asia there are just more opportunities.
Yous should have bought two used cars you could afford instead of two cars you would have to make payments on for years.
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Two programs that help me a lot:
- grisbi (opensource): It takes my hsbc/lloyds online statements (quicken files) and lets me present the data through some fairly complicated searches. Basically, that's how I do my accounting.
- taxcalc: This helps me fill in my self-assessment returns. Best 20 quid I ever spent!
If anything else, that'll save your accountant some time (and you some money). Also getting accountants who are retired tax inspectors will help a great deal! I'm not joking, maybe they don't advertise themselves as such, but you'll find them if you dig a little (maybe they're the ones your client uses!).Cheers
Of all our friends (most of whom are quite successful in their jobs), only one has what I'd call a working career (he's an artist) but even he has a day job to help pay the bills.
That said, I work for a pretty terrific, pro-technology company that runs its employees to the brink of job burnout but which also shows its appreciation extremely well, in a myriad of ways -- bonuses are solid and (as one example) last year's company anniversary party had Counting Crows performing. And they're hiring.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled."--Feynman
People have been trying to replace OPEC(Big Oil) and RIAA(Big record companies) for YEARS. They simply change the law to outlaw alternative energy and peer 2 peer technologies.
The only reason we still use oil and buy CDs from record companies is because they outlaw the competition.
Do you actually believe that?
People work because they have to. Maybe a few people enjoy working, but really I can think of a lot of things I enjoy more.
I didn't realize we were speaking of a diesel vehicle (wrongly assumed gasoline) - my appologies. Strange that you couldn't get the filter (I can understand the oil, though - my brother-in-law was forever scrounging for a certain grade of oil in an old Detroit that was in his 1976 Ford dumptruck), but maybe not. Diesels just aren't popular here in the US, thus the parts and such would be more difficult to find. It is a shame you mentioned this, because I always thought that my next small used car would be a VW TDI of some sort (likely a Jetta). I have this "dream" of creating my own biodiesel for it. Here in Phoenix we have a couple of other places I would try from those parts and fluids - one place is "ABC Auto Parts", the other is "Auto Safety House" (which, strangely enough, seems to cater more to diesel rigs/truckers than automobiles) - I would think the former could get the filter, and the latter the oil...
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
ScuttleMonkey, IM me with a brief skill set. I work for a company that takes work/life balance pretty seriously and we are always looking for skilled software developers and infrastructure people with a strong passion for technology.
I wouldn't call this [census.gov] severe. The drop is consistent with other recessions.
Considering that the entire business cycle is just an invention of the oligarchy- I consider ANY recession severe; because it simply doesn't need to happen.
I'd still need to see a breakdown of the figures. Statistics like that are easy to fudge; for example the recent reports that the US has a zero percent savings rate are only obtained by ignoring stuff like 401k contributions.
I agree to some extent- I was kind of shocked by this figure as well. I'm still working on cooberation for it- is business debt that bad, or is it the fact that we're entirely financing the recovery on interest-only mortgages?
The millions of people buying Tivos and iPods presumably believe otherwise.
Actually- Entertainment Industry being up is a sure sign of trouble elsewhere. The largest growth for the movie industry was during the Great Depression, due to the need for people to escape from how miserable their real lives had become. More money spent on entertainment is a rotten indicator for that reason. You CAN live your entire life unemployed and stealing music from the Internet if you have a mere $100 piece of equipment- but do you want to?
My point is that we're better off now that we do have showers.
Not really- life just costs more and we have to spend more of it working. They were as happy with their lot back then as we are now- happier, because they had the hope of a whole new continent opening up. What have we got left to look forward to? Seeing the next crapy reality TV show coming out?
You can always cancel your cable and Internet service to free up cash.
Well 1/2 is good- but you can't get a job without Internet Service these days.
Now if you've taken on more debt than you can afford even after getting rid of nonessential spending then you're screwed
As the credit card companies would tell you- I can only not afford that debt because debt-to-income ratios in the United States are based on always having increasing income- and I don't. The bankruptcy rate proves I'm not alone either in that experience.
but nobody made you sign up for that interest-only loan
Except, of course, they never tell you what an interest-only loan is until they have the signature on the paper. To a certain extent- buyer beware, of course. But if we're going to go on buyer beware, then the grand majority of society would be better off bartering with their neighbors for the goods they need than paying Walton in Alabama for lower quality and worse service. It's simply not worth it having a national economy OR trade.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
My ex-partner once asked me how much my life insurance was worth, and then complained that there wouldn't be very much left over after I was buried and the mortgage on the house was paid off. Had we been a one-income family with kids then it would make sense to have enough insurance to replace my income for a reasonable period of time (ie: until the kids were 25), but in our case (both in our 30's, both professionally employed, no kids) I didn't see why I should pay huge premiums so that my partner could retire to a life of idle luxury....
The trouble is that (unless you are omnicient) you can't tell who's poor just from looking at their kids.
Well raised (and obedient) children from any economic group look and act similarly.
Rich brats are more able to insulate themselves from you, so you don't notice their bad behavior as much.
It is true that poor children that don't have good parental care are often very obvious, but it would be a mistake to generalize about all poor children from them.
Rrrright. As opposed to a sexually oppressed society where you are too embarassed to say penis and have to describe it as "your whatever". No wonder war-mongering hillbillies come from there.
You can get perfectly working used cars for around 1500. That is how much I paid for my 1993 Oldsmobile Achieva. The price of a new car is ten times or more than that. So that means you can dump ten beater cars like this Achieva when they break and just get a new egg beater car. Cars are not like you think, my mom's boyfriend is a mechanic since the late 60s, he says the only difference between designer cars like BMW and most other cars; when they break the parts always cost more. Most expensive cars rely on branding to sell and do not offer more reliability. Of course if you do not know a mechanic like I do to look at your beater car, it may be a nightmare. Another thing he said is that car companies release new models every year, but the engines take much longer to change. Look up car guides(a good mechanics office should have guides and references) and see how year after year Ford or Oldsmobile releases cars with the same engine only updating the model numbers. It takes years for an engine change of significance. A 2004 model car will most likely have the same engine as the 2005 model.
The point it is stupid to get a car you cannot afford when you can get a used car you can. Why make car payments for five years or ten years? Do people give you compliments? But I guess this is what propels most advanced capitalist societies these days. I can understand buying a house on mortgage but not a car when working used cars can be had for under $5000.
I have just over half a million in life insurance. Enough for my wife to pay off the house, fully fund our 2 kids' education and live with no decrease in living standard for 3-4 years. If she worked part time (she's a veterinarian and can make 40k/year working 20 hours/week), she might be able to stretch out the "leftover" money for a decade or more.
And yet, whenever we talk about it (usually around now when my company does the annual benefits enrollment and the insurance issue comes up) you would think I was leaving my wife destitute because she would still have to work for a living.
It doesn't help that her sister convinced her husband to maintain 5 million dollars worth of life insurance. She's made it very clear that if her husband dies, she has no intention of getting a job.
"Can I finish? Can I finish?
Hi -- off topic, assuming it will disappear anyway since this is an old post... I saw a couple of your comments in an older thread (would reply there, but can't) about how you're independently working on your own fantasy/sci-fi novel and was very interested. I run a writing group for independent writers, a network for critique, and a sort of guerilla marketing loop -- we help each other get publicity for our work by acting locally in a lot of different areas of the US. I'm taking a chance that you might have email notification turned on for replies to your comments (since there is no way to message you via your profile) -- drop me an email if you'd like to chat. gryphoness at gmail dot com.