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When Should You Buy Your Kid A Laptop?
GuitarNeophyte writes "Marketwatch News reports that some people say that we should be buying our kids laptop computers well before they get into the higher education realm. Even as early as middle school. From the article: 'These days, it's almost unquestioned that college-bound students will tote laptops back to school. For parents of high school and middle school kids, the decision to invest in a laptop is far from given.'"
With the affordability of laptops I opted to purchase my child one as opposed to an Xbox or PS2. My thinking was it allowed him not only to play games, but also familiarize himself with the keyboard, internet, word processing program, etc. He quickly became proficient and amazed me how much I actually learned from *him* about computers. I was a bit reluctant at first letting him use the internet; however, we had a discussion on what's acceptable and I have parental control on the internet. I think in today's society you're doing your kid an injustice if you wait until their high school years to introduce them to this technology.
"Simplify, simplify, simplify!" Thoreau
Hey kids... when did your mommies and daddies buy you your laptop computer?
When they are old enough for a part-time job so they can replace it after they break it.
When your kid is responsible enough to have a laptop and look after it.
Until then; you get an abicus, son.
Who's going to pay for the damage when the school bully breaks yet another childs' laptop?
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and IS gets the 1st shot at buying the old ones! (Or when 1 breaks and can be easily fixed at home with a little JB Weld)
You buy a kid a laptop when they are so cheap that you can afford to buy a new one every month. You know they're going to get broken, stolen, lost etc.
Scared of flying, pointy things snce 1979!
Until you trust your kids to browse the internet and use their computer responsibly, give them a desktop and orient its monitor so that it can be seen by you and your spouse when you casually walk by. (BTW this means do *not* let them have a computer in their bedroom!)
Giving them a laptop to take to their friends' houses is just inviting them to access all sorts of nasty stuff.
The best possible choice? Set up your offspring's computer(s) in your own home office. What you loose in distraction, you'll gain in piece of mind and time spent with them.
a laptop is one tool for education and can be used as part of a kid's schooling, but buying one just for the sake of buying one and giving it to a kid and expecting them to become smart is just silly.
what question should be asked is "when is a good time to start using a laptop in the context of my kids wider education" and I think that comes way after being able to write and read and do math and critically think what they read and not before
Training children to become iBook-equipped hipsters.
I say buy the laptop as early as possible for the kid. Make him into a man as soon as possible.
:)
With an Internet connection, it is like browsing one big picture book
What ever happened to pen and paper? God forbid we actually make kids LEARN the English language, let's just hook them up to spellcheckers ASAP and stop worrying about it.
I don't think ANY child should be given free acess to a spellchecker until he or she can read and write at a college level. It's meant to allievate your work, not do it for you.
I never spellcheck and I freely admit it. Save your karma for more worthwhile "lol erorrs" replies
There's this thing that you do labour and the people who appreciate the labour give you a universally accepted promisary note, which you can exchange for a computer, assuming that you collect enough of them.
I think that it's called a job
Besides which, why does everyone keep insisting that laptops are ubiquitous in classes? Most engineering students I knew found paper and pencil to be faster and more flexible for jotting down notes.
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I don't have a laptop yet, my kid is damn sure not getting one.
The days of the digital watch are numbered.
My brother did this for his 10 year old son and found that not only was it a good way to make sure he was doing his homework as he was in the same room as my brother and so could be supervised, instead of being away out of sight in his own room twiddling his thumbs and pretending to work, but it was also good for limiting his access to the internet if need be. Simply by removing his wireless card to prevent access to the houses router.
Yeah, by the time they want one, they can have this one that I'm typing on now. But in reality for the kid's sake, until they're old enough to run fast, we'll have a desktop machine for them. Before any of that though I'm going to let them play with the clamshell iBook.
Luck favors the prepared, darling.
Sounds like an expensive thing to keep replacing over and over and over again, every time your kid damages it beyond repair or loses it.
Ah, but you HAVE to, because it's vital to their education.
When she get's off the phone long enough to use a computer at all!
I went to a pretty posche high-school. (Not yuppy, just slightly below) And many students had laptops. I only found it usefull for making OpenOffice Impress from linux. (Windows boxes had different fonts as default) Laptops are a luxury really. I only got one in grade 12 for university. Laptops these days (In my price range) are so bulky that they aren't even portable. They are just portable enough to move from home to university and back for weekends. The portable laptops that have any performance worth buying end up being too pricey for me. The end result is you end up with a movable desktop. Until I got my laptop, I'd have vnc on my linux desktop, which I'd access from school computers. This was usually more than enough.
My first thought was, "When their rich uncle gets out of the poor farm." But I've actually been considering a used laptop from RetroBox -- they dispose of corporate assets and have laptops starting under $50 -- though you'll have to get over $100 before you can get anything over 300 MHz and 128 MB.
Of course, all you bargain hunters will now swoop in and grab them... where's that "back" button?
Stressed? Me? Of course not. Stress is what a rubber band feels before it breaks, silly.
Sometimes the solution is not to buy them a laptop, but to buy them their own desktop. I had that from about Grade 8 on... It made more sense, since at the time I had no real need for mobility. (I liked to play PC games and surf the web mostly.)
The time might be right if your child is monopolizing the family computer... or if they are technically inclined and mature enough not to destroy it.
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I gave them the P2-450 when I bought my wife a P4-3g. My kids were 6 and 3 at the time. This year, they'll be getting the net access enabled. They're 8 and 5 now.
Laptop? Nah... Too fragile for this age. When they're in middle school? Maybe.
My parents bought me a computer when I asked for one so that I could learn how to program. Worked out well in the long run.
Ok buy your kid an expensive laptop. Vendors sure would like you to. Why? 1) They would sell more laptops 2) They would even sell more laptops after your kid has just spoiled some drink over it... Why would you not buy a laptop for a kid? 1) You could learn them first using an old desktop and teach them how to deal with a delicate machine 2) Teach them good practices first: open source development.
Uh, I don't know what kind of stuff you're doing with your laptop...
There is no sig, there is only Zuul.
Buy your kid a laptop as soon as possible so they'll get out of the house and download all of their illegal music, movies, and software off of someone else's access point (not to mention all of l33t spl01ts they'll be using).
In the future youth street gangs will stand on the street corners with laptops leeching unprotected wi-fi.
My sister is 12. She can type nearly as fast as I can - and while she does make use of that internet shorthand that I hate so much, I think a laptop would probably be a good thing for her to have. What kind of laptop is a little harder to call. I would probably suggest something limited enough that it would almost work out as an appliance though. Perhaps a linux system designed specifically for school type applications.
A really good idea would be for school boards to develope a little knoppix type system that could be provided to kids as nessecary - on a DVD-RW perhaps, to allow for saving their projects.
I'm only six years out of school, but I swear, kids these days are amazing. At 12, most can type quite quickly. When I was in school, at 15 I was one of three students that could type with any speed.
.
But you know your child. How does he/she treat other pieces of expensive equipment in the home? If your kid treats your $xxx stereo system with respect, it's probably appropriate to give him a laptop. Just make sure to either get an iBook, or put some really solid anti-virus / anti-spyware software on the thing.
-Rob
Biblical fiscal responsibility
Sorry,
My children will not have their own laptop until they get to about 10th grade.
Why? They need the basics, read, writing, and math. Having a computer just makes them more dependant on the spell checker, the calculator, etc.
Maybe it's just an unspoken myth, but computers don't make you smarter. Having access to loads of information doesn't make you smarter.
Good study habits, excellent reading skills, solid math and logic will get them to where ever they want to go.
Disclaimer. I use a computer all day as a system admininistrator/programmer. I enjoy using computers, but they don't make me smarter.
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I bought my daughter a 12" Powerbook when she was 2 weeks old. Admittedly she's never used it, and it rarely leaves my side, but it is technically hers and not a geek toy for me :)
Also, it's rediculous to say that kids "need" a laptop because they'll be carrying one around in college. Do they need their Rhet & Comp books too so they'll be prepared? I went back to school and just graduated back in 2003. I was a non-traditional student, and I was one of very few that even had a laptop computer with me. There may be more people using them in the future, but for now, some exposure to a computer is good enough.
Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
If you have a kid that's reasonably responsible and doesn't have a track record of breaking things (his PS2/Xbox still works), I don't see the problem. If you're worried about the laptop getting stolen or broken, you can purchase a rider very affordably through your homeowner's insurance. Like someone before me mentioned, with the falling price of laptops, it makes sense if you can trust the kid. It would especially be nice on road trips where the kid can do school work, watch dvd's, or play some games to pass time in the car.
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Careful selection of programs and websites means they are entertained while learning, and a side benefit is that "television" is not a part of their worlds.
They can use a desktop until then. I would not set a grade requirement on when to buy them a laptop but a "responsibility" requirement. For the most part a desktop will suffice.
If your student loses their cell phones, can't drive a car within the confines of the law, or cannot maintain good study habits then save your money. If they have the aspirations and act on them within their capabilities then by all means get them a laptop if it truly benefits them at the time.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
* I get a new laptop
* oldest child gets my old laptop
* youger children get laptops from older children
* oldest laptop from yougest child gets back to my museum
I don't have a kid. I'm basically still a kid of some sort (wait until I graduate college), but I think middle school is a little too early. I'd say keep a family computer around until high school, and keep it up to date enough that the kid won't be whining for something more powerful (it doesn't cost that much to keep a machine up to date). That was getting a lappy for your boy or girl is going to be less "a more powerful toy" and more a symbol of independence. Of course they won't be paying for it so it's not THAT independent.
Now if you're such a paranoid parent that you still want parental control of the Internet at high school age, it's easy enough to share the internet connection out of the family computer via wire or wireless, filtering pages through a firewall at the family computer (not perfect but helps). However, absolutely do not touch the kid's computer. If you did, there wouldn't be a point in getting it.
My three and a half year old newphew has already declared his number one wish for his fourth birthday, a laptop...and not a toy one either...he already has a couple of those. The world indeed is changing.
But for almost all cases, laptops are a waste of money. I wouldn't buy my kid a laptop and if he or she decided they had the money for one, I would severely discourage them from buying one. Having a computer at the desk is more than sufficient and at least three times less expensive. You need to find reasons to not get a computer. The real reasons for a laptop are few and far between.
When I tell an object to delete this, am I killing it or telling it to kill me?
You don't have to buy a laptop to introduce your child to "new technology". Just create an account on the family's desktop computer. It's easier to monitor appropriate content when the child is sitting in the living room.
The more comfortable your child becomes with computers will likely correspond to how successful they are in adulthood. You can see that today. I'm in my mid twenties, so my generation was raised with computers and the internet. The individuals who are adept at using it (meaning they know how and where to find and analyze data) are much more successful and in demand than people who only have rudimentary knowledge of using a computer (meaning can turn it on but require extensive training on all applications thrown at them).
Yes, that's right folks. Because I'm buying their kids a laptop. Me and my closest friends, geographically speaking. Our taxes are buying a bunch of kids that I don't have equipment that will be obsolete real soon which most of them will never know how to truly use. Except as email and chat hardware of course.
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So don't worry about it! Move to Georgia, specifically Cobb County. Sure, we'll force your kids to listen to Creationism being equated to Natural Selection, but they'll be hearing it from an mp3 on their very own iBooks!
You are checking your backups, aren't you?
I have a 3-year-old (almost 4) that has her own laptop. It's an older one, but perfect for her games. It's nice because it's portable, built like a tank (like I said: "older"), and takes up very little room. She can also manipulate the touchpad much easier than a traditional mouse.
I have XP installed - she can boot the machine, click on her name to log in, then inserts the cd for the game she wants to play. I very rarely have to help her anymore.
My sig sucks.
With rubberized corners for cushoning the fall, springs that hold the MB and HD in place to prevent shock-damage, water-proof keyboard and display, lexan on the display to take shocks, and, of course, a Lojack for when it gets lost.
This thing'll be as expensive as a car.
College is quite different. Dorm room space is at a premium, and there's an expectation that you will be toting your laptop on campus.
Middle-schoolers carrying laptops around would be a nightmare. If a kid's laptop isn't broken when hurled to the ground underneath a bag of books, it will be stolen, or accidentally left behind somewhere.
domain combinatorics
I think it would be a better idea to purchase them a regular PC when they're in middle school or high school. First of all, most children are still not all that responsible at that age. Granted that some of you might have been, but I think that the vast majority of children wouldn't be. Allowing something that they can haul to school where it could be stolen, broken, lost, or something else is not a good idea. Other children will want to use it and it will propably cause all kinds of other problems.
Although laptops are becoming more affordable, desktop PCs are dirt cheap. I just got a Dell catalogue in the mail less than a week ago. There were some computers listed for under $400 with monitor included. This computer will be in the safety of the home and will allow you to keep better tabs on what your child is doing with their computer. I don't want to sound like the secret police, but middle school children are still stupid enough to give their address to a child predator.
They can get a laptop when they go to college and might lug it to every class to take notes with and the small space it takes up with be a plus in a tiny dorm room. Until then, I think it would be better to hold off on purchasing them a laptop. Get a cheap PC instead, or better yet give them your old one and buy a new one for yourself.
He's got a used $100 Dell lap top. He started by watching a monster truck streaming video over and over. He learned how to stop and start the video by clicking on the mouse.
He's now 2 1/2. With some effort, he can pretty much move the mouse to where he wants to go and has the idea of clicking down, though he often wants me to do it for him becuase it's easier. There's all sorts of great educational flash animations out there for him. After about 10 to 15 minutes, he gets bored and then moves onto some other activity. He plays with the computer only a couple of times a week, nothing heavy duty. Every once in a while I bring him up to my computer and let him watch me work on the computer, telling him in very basic terms what I'm doing.
Anyway, the kid's going to grow up thinking of the computer as an extension of himself. There's no question they're going to play ever increasing roles in our lives. His generation is bound to be a very different kind of generation.
---Technology will liberate us if it doesn't enslave us first.
Children don't have a need for a laptop as they should be enjoying the young years of their life. Staying inside to play FPS/RPG/etc games on a computer for 2+ hours is not healthy and can probably lead to unsocial habits. The family computer is just fine until they get into high school and they need a dedicated computer for school work and other activities. Plus laptops are portable and expensive pieces of equipment and can be prone to damage by moving it from location to location and can be costly to fix.
I got my kid a 300mhz laptop from a used computer store for forty bucks because they couldn't figure out how to load an OS on it.
The most important lessons a kid needs to learn about laptops is how to take care of it so it doesn't get smashed. This is why it seems pointless to invest in a new one -- I'd rather be out forty bucks than a grand or more. I had to take the machine away from her when she'd leave it sitting on a chair or the floor, but she quickly learned to take good care of it.
The thing works great and she writes all of her papers on it using Open Office. I have it running Win98 because there is a lot of good educational software I have her work with (she uses linux on her desktop -- her choice)
I don't give her network access on her laptop since I want her to be doing school work, not chatting or playing games -- that's what her desktop is for.
I suppose someone should point out that its cheap enough to replace a keyboard on a desktop machine when the kid pours his sugar carbonated drink of choice into it, not so cheap to do that to a laptop, and it will happen, no matter how many times you warn them against it. Also it might be a good idea to buy something along the lines of a ToughBook because kids arn't exactly gentle with their stuff and laptop harddrives dont take to kindly to knocks and bruises.
I can't remember when I got my first laptop. It might have been a handbook. 99% sure it was during the early 90s, and not the 80s. I'm 22 now. Not sure if I had one in elementary school, can't remember.
Yeah, your anecdotal evidence sure destroys my generalization.
Here's some more "evidence". Every god damn kid I see hands in flawless, 0* error papers when they have access to them, and FILLED with errors if not. Magic?
*or close, scs aren't perfect
I never spellcheck and I freely admit it. Save your karma for more worthwhile "lol erorrs" replies
You don't need pen and paper to learn how to write well. I learned to write well with my computer. I learned alot more about writing when doing it on my computer.
I recall seeing an article on /. a while back that covered how computers in the classroom are ruining education.
We should teach kids using the pen and paper method. First teach how its done before we give them a tool to do it for them. I personally won't buy my child a laptop (recertified or new) until they are responsible enough to care for it.
It is better to be the hammer than the anvil.
for laptops.
or steroids.
You want them to get into the best grade school with the best athletic programs so that they can get into the right Jr. High/Middle School and then a good High School, where they can be recruitued by a big football college. THen the NFL and profit!
Oh, and the laptop? SO they can play football simulations and practice calling plays, of course.
putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
A notebook computer is a luxury; so is a computer for that matter. At a university, students are there because they want to be there; in middle school (and even high school), students are there because they are leagally required to be there. More important, teachers cannot assign homework that requires a computer more powerful than the school's computer labs, simply because it would put those students of a less wealthy background at a significant disadvantage.
The argument falls flat; computers are rarely shown to provide a better educational experience than books and paper; the only exception is computer programming... and those lower-education facilities that teach programming have the computers in the classroom.
Giving a notebook to a mid-school student is little more than a status symbol, a way for an affluent child of privilige to justify his arrogance and stroke his ego. It's also a good reason for a bully to assault (and possibly kill) someone to get the computer... or has it been so quickly forgotten that kids have been killed over athletic shoes and iPods already? I certainly know that would have been the case in my mid/high schools.
-- Sometimes you have to turn the lights off in order to see.
My four year old has a laptop. It's perfect for him since it can be set up anywhere we happen to be. We can keep an eye on him and he still gets to play his learning games. We also use it on long trips in the car as a DVD player. Of course he's been asking for a printer now for about three months...
With the affordability of laptops I opted to purchase my child one as opposed to an Xbox or PS2. My thinking was it allowed him not only to play games, but also familiarize himself with the keyboard, internet, word processing program, etc.
Which is great, but does he carry it back+forth to school and/or use it during class? I believe that's the more specific topic under discussion. From the article:
But with laptop prices coming down, children's demands heating up and parents' urge to provide all they can to further their child's education, it's likely more families are toying with the idea of buying portable computing devices for their kids.
The headline should probably read "When Should Your Kid Start Using a Laptop in School?" or similar.
I want to drag this out as long as possible. Bring me my protractor.
"These days, it's almost unquestioned that college-bound students will tote laptops back to school."
I hardly find it unquestionable that a new college student would bring a laptop with them to college. While it's almost a certainty that a new student will bring a computer (although some still do not), there is still a mix of desktops and laptops out there.
The price of a desktop is still less than a notebook and buying a desktop usually yields a computer with more computing power, for many that equates to a computer that will last longer. If I were a fiscal parent I would be tempted to purchase the desktop computer, which yields more bang for the buck, is less likely to be stolen, and less easily damaged.
During my last semester in college (a year and a half ago) I saw almost no students bring a laptop with them to class. Professors regularly offer their lecture slides for download to supplement, but often replace note taking. This practice makes bringing a laptop to class, and sometimes pencil, pen and paper pointless.
I'm not saying that I don't see laptops becoming the de facto standard for a new college student, it's just not a foregone conclusion yet.
FTA: "For parents of high school and middle school kids, the decision to invest in a laptop is far from given."
Invest really isn't the correct term since the item is going to depreciate so quickly. It really is a consumption. Just my $0.02...
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Even in the graduate courses I'm taking, not many students bring laptops to class. Out of two classes with 40 students each, 2 people bring laptops to class. It was the same in my undergraduate courses, which I finished this may.
Most notes are still taken easier with pen and paper. It's tough to draw those diagrams in MS Paint with a touchpad.
Kids, and most adults, have no need for laptops. It's rare that someone needs to do actual word processing in class.
My 3 yr old son already knows how to open the laptop lid, hit (yes in a literal sense:) the start button, wait for the boot to complete and then take the mouse over to various things on desktop and randomly hit the Enter key! He keeps on questioning what will happen if he hits enter when the mouse is over each place!!
Is there a laptop which can stand by a little kid's (ab)use? If the kid has enough interest, will it be beneficial to give him a laptop at this age?
It also makes the backpacks lighter, as only the laptop is taken from/to school every day.
Wait wait wait... who says you HAVE to buy your kid a laptop?
...please people, let's use our heads from here on out and stop asking retarded questions that we already know the answers to.
What a waste of money.
WTF does your kid need a laptop for other than to drop it and/or break it in some manner?
To answer the question: When they're older and actually have use for such an expensive machine. Till then, build em a decent desktop for a fraction of the cost.
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I've been using computers since I was 3. I have a degree in CS. But I never got how taking notes on a laptop was better or easier than pen and paper notes. I feel so disconnected and constrained when I try to take notes on a laptop. With pen and paper, I can write whatever I want (subject to my artistic abilities, which I don't really have), wherever on the page I want. And writing "imprints" what I'm doing in my brain far better than typing.
So I guess my answer would be "I wouldn't just buy my kid a laptop." Make sure s/he's computer literate? Sure. Encourage him/her to explore potential talents in computers? Of course. Buy him/her a laptop just because s/he's a certain age? Nope.
I want to make sure I can monitor my kid's activities, so unless their highschool requires it (some elite schools do) then they will not get it until their senior year. I was thinking after graduation - so they have a few months to get familiar with it before college, but I would rather they get more time to become familiar with the laptop. So probably mid-way to HS, and urge them to utilize it to get ready for interviews. Definitly not before then, as the kids could be sitting anywhere on the net without my supervision - and there are too many psychos out there.
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My kids couldn't keep a calculator for six months without breaking it. They can't keep a CD for six months before it's unuseably scratched.
I'm going to buy them a $700 piece of fragile electronics to break in six months? Not very damned likely! If they have homework on the computer they can use the PC at home.
You fucking rich people who think everybody else is rich too piss me off.
Ha! I loaded up Damn Small Linux on my old Toshiba laptop and let my 12 year old daughter use it. All she does right now is browse and use AIM. She could destroy Windows boxes within minutes from her browing habits. It's a great way to put the old laptop to good use again.
SYS 64738
Why - when the outgrow their Compaq luggable, of course. :)
Your child should buy a laptop after earning the money for it. Pen and paper are sufficient until then.
I have two teenage daughters, one middle school and one high school. They get my second hand desktop. Every time I upgrade, they get my old box. I have plenty of technical controls in place and lecture them on proper use of the internet. But just to be sure, the "family" computer is in the living room where my wife and I can monitor them at any moment's notice. As far as making them better students? That's a load of crap. Both are honors students and primarily use the computer for instant messaging, surfing clothes or shoe stores on line, and playing the Sims. Actual homework time probably accounts for less than 20% of the system usage. And most of that is just looking stuff up. Nothing that couldn't be done with a visit to a library.
Idunno, I certainly think having access to Wikipedia makes me smarter. The pace of learning is simply so much faster when you can follow one subject to another with a single click on a hyperlink than if I have to look it up in an index or in another book (which I might not even have).
My 10 year old has "misplaced" 3 baseball gloves over the last 2 years. I'm not about to buy him an expensive laptop until he can demonstrate that he will be responsible with it. Say, when he's 35 or so.
...we couldn't afford them fancy "laptop" computers. We had big bulky gray boxes that sat on your desk. And we used a modem to dial-up a BBS. And we liked it. We loved it. We didn't have no fancy "high speed wireless internet". If we wanted to know something, we looked it up in a book! And we didn't have no fancy "instant messenger". If we wanted to talk to someone, we called them on the phone!! And we liked it. We loved it! ...young whipper snappers......
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Even if a lot of answers will get to the point that they can have access to adult material younger,I think this is not a problem when you have your kids correctly educated.
Nowadays people tend to think that their kids will get education at school or through Tv programs, and when they are not satisfied with those, they just sue the school/Tv channel, instead of having smart discussions with their kids (which they think, cannot understand complex subjects such as violence and/or sex).
Moreover, giving your kids a laptop/computer could give you the opportunity to tell them about the Internet, about social changes it has brought and/or maybe educate them about the media in general.
On the other hand it might not be such a good idea if not supervised correctly, as it might take a lot of time of your youngster and could replace family communication and/or social activity (I do not consider chatting as a sufficient social activity, sorry for those who get offensed.).
So in brief, this is not forcefully a wrong idea but it should be made with the parents supervision and education.
I know most of you will not to admit this, but computing in the post 9/11 world is very dangerous. With online predators, viruses, terrorist attacks and the like, I don't belive any child should be exposed to the Internet or computers without adult supervision.
On top of the risks there's the expense of it all. Unless you're quite wealthy how are you supposed to afford your child's new car, w/ in-dash DVD player, and stereo system and all of those minutes that they use on the cell phones as they talk to their friends while driving around watching "Dude Where's My Car"? Dangerous and expensive I say!
When I have kids, I'm sure I'll introduce them to computers as soon as possible so they can start familiarizing themselves with them.
However they will be on the family computer; they will not have one of their own until they have worked and can afford one of their own.
That way they can learn how to use a computer AND learn the value of hard work at the same time.
"Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
Imagine giving your kid a $100 bill and tell them to keep track of that bill for a year without losing it, spending it, or otherwise doing something bad with it. If your kid can do that, then you might look into it.
My 8 year old nephew wouldn't keep any laptop in one piece more than a week. When I was 12, I know I wouldn't. When I was 16 I would have.
Look at your kid's game consoles. Do they still work? Are all the accessories still there? Do they trash the games or take care of them? Even the ones that are a couple years old? That'll give you an indication of how they'd treat something else.
If you think education is expensive, you should try ignorance -- Derek Bok, president of Harvard
The stark reality of this is, not everyone can afford a laptop. There exists a gap between the haves and the have nots in society (duh) and believe me, it manifests itself in schools; I see it everyday. When I assign research (I teach HS science), I must schedule time in the school's computer lab because not all of my students have the internet at home.
Another issue from TFA, "make sure your child's school will support the use of the laptop in classes, and find out whether the student can connect the laptop to the school's network."
This is HUGE, education costs are tremendous for the system: besides the standard fees associated with employee pay, materials, fuel for buses, maintenance, etc, there are the facility costs -- electricity, heating, network bandwith. If every student could afford a laptop electric bills would go up. My school's network get very sluggish just during the normal day, I can't imagine if 1000 students plugged in too. We don't have the resources to upgrade to that capacity.
Ignorance is not a crime; neither should it be a way of life
Congress control $ = inmates run the asylum
I went to a high school which had an integrated laptop program. Each student could either lease one, or have access to one when needed. The amount of garbage that went on was amazing. Part of the class became "how to use a computer", and the other half of the time was people playing games instead of taking notes. The same thing happens in the class rooms in post secondary institutions.
She was always asking to type on the desktop computers, and we let her. She's able to find every key with the peck method, but no touch typing yet. One day I decided that she should have her own computer, and simply gave her a Piii 733 Thinkpad I had laying around. She's smart enough to not destroy it, and lets me know when I need to plug it in to be charged. She plays educational games, but spends most of her time 'playing' in OpenOffice.
When I said in elementary school, I didn't mean I brought it to school, if I did have one or not. Or at least I don't think I did, if I actually did have one. Middle school was different though.
Buy your kid a laptop and next thing you know he will be joining al quida.. via sundays article in Washington Post: Terrorists Turn to the Web as Base of Operations By Steve Coll and Susan B. Glasser excerts: "every second al Qaeda member carrying a laptop computer along with a Kalashnikov" al Qaeda has become the first guerrilla movement in history to migrate from physical space to cyberspace. With laptops and DVDs, in secret hideouts and at neighborhood Internet cafes, young code-writing jihadists have sought to replicate the training, communication, planning and preaching facilities they lost in Afghanistan with countless new locations on the Internet.
I'm no Luddite, but there have been studies that have shown that kids being taught with the aid of computers actually do worse, rather than better.
I know from personal experience that it's almost too easy to get distracted while using the computer...
Look at what I'm doing right now (posting) instead of what I SHOULD be doing (Monthly TPS Report, can't forget the coversheet).
Goofy, Geeky Gifts and More!
You could mitigate the loss of information from the loss of networking by installing a static copy of wikipedia on the laptop (the english version only takes up about 3 GB or so).
And your solution of putting the computer in a public area of the house will NOT prevent your kids from looking up 'bad' stuff (I know this from experience, as it didn't stop me); you can't be around all the time. The only thing that will do that is good parenting.
My hat's off to you. (And I'd like to know what the substance of your discussion on "what's acceptable")
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
NEWSFLASH: Corporate America wants you to buy nonessential but expensive toys that are obsolete within two years. And why not buy them for your children too?
Today's religious chant: Buy, Buy, BUY!!!
I am a college student going into my sophmore year and I don't have a laptop.
Laptop's aren't neccessary, BestBuy and other retailers just want to make you think it is.
If your going to buy one for a child, pick an old one up off ebay for just over £100 (they dont need a £1500 Alienware rig that'll run Half Life 2 with all the bells and whistles) if need be slap a new battery in it. much cheaper to replace if something happens and it'll run any programs that a school PC is running.
It's called intelligent parenting.
And I turned out ok.
A laptop for middle school is a waste of time & money unless there is some unusual justification -- kids can learn computers just fine with a desktop.
Alot of these mandatory laptop schemes have more to do with getting more school funding and handing out patronage to friends and family in the laptop reseller business.
Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
But when I do, I'm gonna go crazy with them. I'm talking reading them Insightful and Interesting Slashdot posts in the womb. Bedtime stories will consist of Linux HOWTOs and Unix manpages. Around the age of 5 or 6, I'll get little CoolGuyBob his first laptop, and a Gentoo live disk. By the time it's finished compiling, he'll have graduated high school. Problem solved!
I never had a laptop. Never needed one, damn it! Back in my days, we did not even have school buses! I had to walk 5 miles up hill both ways to school. And we loved it!
When Should You Buy Your Kid A Laptop?
Tuesday, April 10th 2007 between the hours of 9 AM and 11 AM local time.
Hell, I still don't have a laptop, and I probably never will. The keyboards are too hard to use with my big hands.
If it weren't for my stupidity, I'd be some kind of genius.
Kids can stop themselves from losing their lunchboxes, mittens or GBA. Why would you give a ~$1500-2000 laptop to a child? Morons.
From my experience repairing both desktop and laptop systems I've found that until the child understands the value of the laptop you don't want to get them one. Get them a desktop first. That they can be taught to use and learn with effectively quite early. By the time they are halfway through high school, if you've taught them to think, they understand the value of things.
For instance I might wait until my child got their first car before even thinking about a laptop.
Now this is all being pushed up by the fact that some schools are giving kids laptops in middle school. Loaning them out like band instruments so to speak. I think this is a mistake. At least if you're in a computer lab you're with other people not huddled off in some corner with a laptop. Granted some people do better that way but most need human interaction to grow.
One last note - from my experience if you don't want a child to break the notebook but you want to buy one for them young you better be spending about $3k US on something like a Panasonic Toughbook like they have in some police vehicles. Anything else will most likely be broken in a couple of months or less.
"Bah!" - Dogbert
It's free to your kid, and they won't ever learn to save their $. It worked on my brother, who bought an ibook on his own money freshman year in high school. Get your kids jobs, and have them buy their own things.
Go to the w3.org and put Slashdot.org through the validator.
Second quote that stuck out for me:
Wow. I have an army of teachers that prayed I kept my inside/outside classroom behavior to a minimum (let's say the principal and I got to know each other really well). I am a staunch supporter of separation of duties - much like in the work place. I work from 8-5, and anything beyond that is my time. I am talking boundaries here people!I don't see what is wrong with a computer lab just being a computer lab, and a classroom being a classroom. If things become too blurred with computer technology then we are going to loose basics in the classroom: spelling, basic math by hand, structured thought, and a respect for authority and setting.
In four words, NO.
There is nothing like the programming model of the VIC-20 around now.
I might take a look aroung the Squeak! community since programming for and by children (the small in Smalltalk) is what Squeak! is all about.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
to improve children's computer literacy is getting more computers in schools that don't have them (and where the parents can't afford to buy them). The problem with computer literacy in this country is not that these kids aren't getting laptops, but that those children whose families can't afford computers aren't being exposed to them in school, either. Come to think of it, we might want to think about getting them up-to-date textbooks and safe buildings, first.
"Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony!"
Maybe you should pay more attention to the lecture instead of what your fellow students are doing? As for kids not needing to be exposed to the Internet, just when do you think someone should learn about this new fangled Interweb thingy? Or would you like them to disrupt your game playing on your machine to do homework?
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
In Soviet Russia, your child buys you a laptop.
Young kids are not interested in sites which you block with parental control. Those sites usually are even no harm at all (kids mind: Ugly site, dirty site, weird site, lets go to Disney/yahoo/flash game etc).
One kind of sites & sort of programs seems to pose more and more danger nowadays is where there is chatting involved. The so called online predators.
How do you stop those issues with parental control?
P.S. This is a real question, not an attack on your methods.
My wife's sketchblog Blob[p]: Gastrono-me
...except that you bought a powerbook.
An iBook, I might have believed.
Let's suppose that a laptop would really help in the kid's schoolar performance. So, wich applications can really help the kid to increase her/his own performance and start liking to study?
Internet is only a tool to anything, from research to recreation.
Office applications are pretty, but generic.
I think that we should start thinking in what is really good to have installed on the kid's computer to help her/his study.
My daughter's 4 and has her own desktop. She's picking up on mousing and learning how to take data from one app to another (d/l pics from Astronomy site of the day, open in Photoshop, paint and edit pics, save to desktop pic folder). Soon, I'm going to teach her how to use a page layout app and how to incorporate her work into it.
For now, a desktop is fine. She's pretty tough on toys and such. Also, it'll be 10 years further on when she's ready to enter high school. Anyone think personal computing will have changed by then? We'll all likely have some kind of personal data storage will allow us to carry our computing lives with us, from display/input device to display/input device. A standard backpack or Mead Trapper/Keeper will also work as a laptop.
I drank what? -- Socrates
I've been suffering for over a year now with a serious upper back repetitive stress injury. I'm only in my early twenties. But I've been intensely using computers since I was 8 years old, and in the past 3 years I've been using a laptop in a very poor posture (kept far in front of me, hunched with my arms outstreched forward and wrists sitting on desk). RSI is something that accumulates over a decade or more of bad computer use. Muscles become gradually more clenched and static without at first being painful, and once you start feeling symptoms several years after the abuse started, it's already too late. As more and more children become computer addicts my situation is going to become increasingly common.
So when I have a kid, the last thing I want to do is give him a laptop as his main computer. I'm giving him a desktop, adjusting it properly and teaching him about the importance of good posture and taking regular breaks. If he must have a laptop, then I'm getting one with a detachable screen and additional external keyboard. Abandoning the convenience and coolness of laptops seems to me like a small price to pay to avoid serious injury.
I'm glad you aren't my parent. Good parenting is letting your children learn from all sorts of information, even if it's wrong. All parents have trouble letting go of control over their children. That is what this censorship is really about. Remember that the internet its self does not cause physical harm (at least not in the way, for example, that sports do). Every time you stop a child from dealing with a new kind of information in a situation where it cannot cause physical harm, you weaken that child's chances of dealing with a physically dangerous situation. And your statement is idiotic.
Simon's Rock College
Another of the pleasures of buying your kid a laptop:e ss-730605.JPG
http://nilno.com/laser_dir/uploaded_images/pricel
I was trying to figure out what a laptop had to do with Radiohead.
As I have posted earlier, there are a lot of sub $100 laptops out there for kids to use. If you really look, you can find one for under $50 >> I know, I have a stack of em.
What kids need to use laptops for is to learn how to responsibly take care of something as well as to use educational software.
I don't think a kid needs network access on a laptop or even battery life. But having one's own computer is a great opportunity. They can plug it in and use it to run all those great educational CD's or even home made educational software.
When I was a kid, I used a calculator to learn multiplication. Now, kids in my family use software I wrote that drills them on their numbers.
Computerized learning is a great opportunity for kids to learn letters, numbers, spelling, history, math, astronomy... It's like a museum and tutor all in one.
And rather than cluttering up the house with PC's everyone can have a notebook usually for less money.
I have a four year old daughter, and she uses my laptop all the time. I have several programs installed for her. They are all games, but they all have some kind of educational or social aspect to them. Some are for phonics, some are teaching how to share and play with other kids. Almost all of them use some form of counting, color recognizing, and other basic children themes. She asks me frequently to use the computer, and if its available, I usually let her. She has learned very quickly how to use the mouse, how to double click, click-and-drag, and what some of the keys on the keyboard do.
Because of this, she can also count to 30, knows a couple dozen words in Spanish, is able to recognize pretty much every animal that you might find in a zoo, and several other things that I didn't expect a four-year-old to know.
Now while I appreciate the fact that she enjoys using this obviously beneficial software, I'm not ready to go spend several hundred dollars on her own computer, because, well, she's 4. What I will do, however, in another year or two is build her a computer out of older parts. It will be fast enough to run any program or game she has now, and can be easily upgrade in the future. When she has a real need for a modern-speed laptop (high school, college, etc) I will be happy to buy her one.
In short, I don't think buying them their own laptop is necessary if there is already a computer in the house that will suffice. It seems obvious to me that the computer usage has played a big role in her development. That along with us reading to her, playing with her, and generally talking to her a lot, I feel that she is in really good shape to start school next year.
One thing I have learned, however, is to unplug the network connection while she's playing. Sometimes she finds her way into the 'certificate' section, and a couple times managed to unknowingly print several dozen pictures of various Disney characters on my network-shared laser printer.
And they said zombies weren't real!
You have a fabulous imagination. I would have liked to have you as a friend when I was in school.
:-)
I can just imagine pulling that stuff on some of the bullies I suffered under. (I was a small kid and high school was hell [even the girls used to pick on me] until I was sixteen when I grew a foot in a year and bulked up my frame with swimming and lifting weights. [I went from 'Lets pick on Chuck, he's so tiny', to being every mother's worst nightmare and every high school girl's wettest dream.] I live Grace Slick's comment "We have become the people our parent's warbed us about.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
Because we have a home-based e-tail business (actually, it just moved out of the house into bigger digs), the kids have gotten the hand-me-downs as the requirements of the biz increased. That changed this year, when they were no longer able to play the games they wanted, run Flash MX, etc.
In the last year, both my sons (14 and 17) have gotten new or refurb, ~$500 desktop systems in the 2800MHz range -- 3D cards are crap, but good enough for what they want to do. Both computers are set up in the family room, where they are known to be subject to inspection and monitoring.
My older son (entering Sr year) also has access to an older laptop for writing, etc. in his bedroom -- but this unit has no WiFi, so that we can regulate what hours he's on the net. Otherwise, I know he'd never sleep.
I figure I'm buying him a decent laptop this year. The last laptop I bought for the biz was close to $2K, but that included a dock, very large disc... I'm hoping that the next one will be more around $1200 or less.
Design for Use, not Construction!
Comment removed based on user account deletion
No, it just makes you wrong about more things.
I am 39 years old and am pleasantly amused at all this talk about laptops. I didn't grow up with laptops, so perhaps I am an "old fogey" about this, but I find it interesting that we are talking about things for children that I as an adult can't justify buying. Even though I currently work in the hardware business and in fact used to work to Dell and own 3 desktop machines (2 self-built), and I plan to buy another, I still cannot justify buying a laptop.
The reason? First, the intended use. I personally need to do video editing on it, and you pay quite a premium to get a high performance laptop. Second, the difficulty of doing your own repair. There's not too much maintenance you can do on your own easily.
But the main reason is cost. A decent laptop is $2000 or so (and that includes the MS tax), and Apple laptops are even more expensive. Oh, yes, you can get one for under $1000 (if you seriously compromise on RAM, CPU or your video card). But if you factor in $2000-2500 (add support costs) into your budget, that's a pretty penny. And wait--if the laptop is stolen or lost, who has to pay? I'm sure there are parents who are worried that their son/daughter is walking around with a device almost as expensive as a car that they did not have to pay for. That means insurance, warranties, which add to the costs.
How can students use this? The best use is campus wireless access (BTW, I live in Houston, where wifi access royally sucks). Notetaking perhaps, but that's an expensive fancy pencil there. I can imagine cases where it would be easy to swap files inside the classroom, where you can work outside or in small groups.
Educationally, let's look at the classroom benefits.
Chat--BFD, unless you are communicating with the astronauts
doing research--well, sure, but school machines could fulfill this purpose just as well
transporting schoolwork to/from school: hey, what about yahoo My Briefcase (20$ a year)? what about USB flash keychains?
I have two problems with this push to have laptops.
1)brand names/discounts. When we talk about laptops, we are talking about Dell/Apple most of the time. That means generally we are paying the MS tax for the OS, MS Office, etc. Note that this article talks nothing about the price of laptops or who has to pay, as though money were just a minor detail in the decision whether to buy it.
2)the tendency to teach concepts in terms of MS Office and Adobe products. From what I hear, quite a number of junior high students give Powerpoint presentations in their class.That is bad. We are simply creating MS customers (and I'll be reluctant to endorse any new technology unless the school district specifies open standards and open source software alternatives for everything). It is teaching dependence on a commercial product. Lots of high school students, I've heard, are dependent on Photoshop/Premiere for their creativity, and I'd prefer that public school environments not simply be a way for students to use educational discounts to try out pricy products they'll later pirate.
You make significant compromises by insisting on the laptop form factor. If laptops or similar devices were under $500, I could probably accept that they will be integrated into the public school environment. There are by the way many excellent PDAs under that price (and with wireless keyboard, it is every bit as good a notetaker and ebook reader). 500-800$ can buy you a pretty desktop for home, but not a pretty laptop. If we let peer pressure bring students to demand the latest and greatest laptops from parents, it will only provide a pretext for the upper class student to flaunt his wealth and for the juvenile deliquent to hock it/steal another for drug money.
Robert Nagle, Idiotprogrammer, Houston
My wife used to watch children in our home, and now we have a little newbie of our own.
Our general rule has been that we introduce them to the desktop computer as young as possible. I made a few "Click for reward" "Type for reward" type games that some of the 4 month olds have understood it and enjoyed. We had a 6 month old who could move the space ship (with the mouse) to where ever you pointed on the screen. He has his own 400mhz windows95 machine at home and one of his first phraises was "Control Alt?" because when it would crash/freeze/slow down he wasn't allowed to hit control+alt+delete without permission... I think he was 14-16 months at that time. These days I don't care what your profession is (unless it is hard blue collar) It is a computer job. Keyboards and mice are like 5 bucks each and we have gone through loads of them, but it is very worth it. The joy of seeing a 2 year old BEGGING his parents to ditch dial-up for DSL is unspeakable. He is like 3 now and we installed a voodoo 3 and some ram in his PC to make it faster... he won't let his parents install anymore crap on the machine either, he warns them that "installing makes it slower" he also blames them for spyware. He knows the casino game is "spyware". Did I mention both his parents are barely computer literate?
As for laptops, you absolutly have to wait untill they stop drooling, but that is about it.
when i was younger i had a master system and tv in my rom, gradually moving the years through amiga, mega drives, playstation, nintendo...then Doom on PC :)
when i was at school IT lessons and the like were way too boring, learning to use Word and Excel are handy if you want to become a secretary sure, but doing those same basic things every lesson is not helpful. Most of the time when i was 14/15 i was writing html and javascript. So bollocks to it get them a playstation 3 as well if you're going to taunt them with laptops.
This is news? I was born in 82, and I grew up with a computer from when I was a small child. Children should be given computers at each incremental age step, always loaded with interesting and engaging software to help them grow. It is absolutely foreign to me that someone would purposely wait until college to give their kid a computer. Information revolution indeed!
"Reality continues to ruin my life" - Calvin and Hobbes
I forgot to make the point about using laptops for collaboration. That is an important educational activity, especially for distance learning/establishing study partners with students in other locations.
But you don't need laptops for that. Why not have students check out laptops from the library when they need to use a mobile device and then use something simpler for all other uses?
rj
Robert Nagle, Idiotprogrammer, Houston
I believe this is what you are takling about. :) Though I can't find a price.
Duh, if people are buying more laptops (one at a younger age and then another one sooner, when this one is too old to be useful), it helps the stock of various companies.
Also, people feel similarly about cell phones and younger kids (there are even special phones marketed for them) and they can be good for an emergency, but they mostly just get used at inappropriate times, just like the parents do with their phones.
Advice for my fellow geeks: before seeking out that threesome you dream of, you might see what a TWOsome is like first.
Let the little fucker buy it himself with a job. I bought my own fucking laptop the first time and i dont see why it should be different for the kids.
NO SIG
There are several reasons why this is not only unnecesssary, but a bad thing:
IMHO there's no real reason a kid needs a computer more than a few hours a week until high school. No reason for their own laptop until late-highscool or even college.
Some people think throwing money at a child is good for them. But really, it just spoils them.
Jebus... There was debate about whether or not we could use a fucking calculator when I was in school!
In related news: My 6-year old is quite profficient with a computer already. Has been for a few years. There's a sign of the times for you.
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Kids who get consistent exposure to Windows learn just that: Windows. You're making your kid into a regular user by getting them their own laptops that early, not the next comp sci whiz kid.
If you want them to know something about PC's, build them a rather nice budget PC. Then give them a book on installing and running Linux and a distro. If you find they aren't taking an interest in the PC -hey... new PC for you.
At least then they might start with it in their heads that PC's aren't Windows and maybe that can build into a real understanding of how software and hardware interact instead of being another drone that only understands "higher numbers mean good."
I'll never buy my kids a laptop. When they are ready to own something so breakable, they'll be ready to pay for it themselves. They can *work*.
"He who would learn astronomy, and other recondite arts, let him go elsewhere. " -- John Calvin, commenting on Genesis 1
But I really don't see why get them a laptop, it's just a much more expensive for the same price machine as a desktop with a smaller slower hard drive, usually less RAM, and much, much more ways for a younger person to destroy it. How about getting them a DESKTOP computer, given you can get a decent one for less than many modern video game machines?
"These days, it's almost unquestioned that college-bound students will tote laptops back to school."
I have bought my college students desktops. While the idea of using a laptop to take notes in class, or to work on a term paper out on the front lawn, is an appealing daydream, it isn't reality. And laptops have a bad habit of disappearing, while desktop boat anchors are considerably less likely to sprout legs and walk away.
I know of many parents who did the same, though I know of just as many who have bought their kids laptops, with associated anti-theft devices, and have paid twice as much for a system with a cramped keyboard and restricted expandibility that will spend most of its time in the dorm anyway.
Given that, I'm not sure why I would buy a laptop instead of a desktop for a middle-school child. In fact, I didn't. They shared a family PC until high school, at which point I got them Linux-based desktops.
~*~ Tara
But NEVER - I really don't see why get them a laptop, it's just a much more expensive for the same processor machine as a desktop with a smaller slower hard drive, usually less RAM, and much, much more ways for a younger person to destroy it. How about getting them a DESKTOP computer, given you can get a decent one for less than many modern video game machines?
I built my 7 year old a PC and she loves it. She's way ahead of her peers from just exposure. (She did all the typing for an OpenBSD install when she was 5.) But since she got her own PC, she's picked up more knowledge than her school's computer teacher.
I put her PC in my home office with the monitor facing my desk. So I can always see what she is doing. And instead of disappearing into the office we get to spend a little quality time together.
I will definitely consider upgrading her to a laptop around 8th grade. But for right now, she's too young. She's pretty responsible for her age, but I still think it would be broken within six months.
Here's the thing about the "monitor in the living room" issue.
Kids and teens love to chat, they love to blog, and they innocently expose a ton of personal information about themselves in blogs and chatting.
You may have told them not to give out their full name or address, but predators can learn identities using lots of other information: school names, team names, friends names, names of parks and malls and other places they like to hang out. Just as social engineering is used by phishers to get password or cc info from adults, it gets used by sexual predators to manipulate kids and teens into trusting the predators.
And I think most of you probably remember feeling like you could handle a lot more than those stupid controling adults thought you could, back when you were in in high school.
That combination of factors is what has teenagers, especially girls, make a shocking number of bad decisions about meeting people IRL who they've only met online.
Having your computer in a central location in your house isn't a foolproof way to protect your kids; there is no such thing. But if the computer is in the living room, you can see if your kids' behavior changes, if they get suddenly secretive about what's on the monitor, for example.
And then you can have a conversation with them about it and figure out whether or not you should be worried.
Different parents will make different choices on that front -- maybe you aren't worried about your teen checking out some naughty pictures, but maybe you are worried about her looking at violent rape fantasy sites or about his unwillingness to tell you who new people on the buddy list are....
Maybe you have a relationship with your kids where the conversation and reviewing what's acceptable at your house is all that is needed. Or maybe you decide to restrict computer use, or install parental controls software, or monitor the history & temp internet files -- all those choices make sense for some families and wouldn't work in others.
But paying attention to what your kids are doing with their time and who their doing it with, that's critical for parenting, and harder to do for a kid with a laptop in their room than a kid using the computer in a public part of the house.
These opinions are my own. My employer is not aware of them, does not endorse them, and is not responsible for them.
My 12yo, who's been saving her babysitting money for a laptop, has been using/abusing computers since she was 2. In fact, to deal with her curiousity at that time, I wrote the first and probably only key mashing game for OS/2! Now ten years later, I think the main reason she wants a laptop is to have some of her own private space. Currently we have a desktop system that she shares with her brothers and sister. She has her own account on this Win2K box, but the kids machine is located in a very public area of the house. We've talked to her about things to avoid on the internet, etc., so I'm not too worried about her getting into any trouble if she's working in her bedroom. Still it isn't easy, but part of raising kids is giving them some of their own space and eventually having to let them go.
To the making of books there is no end, so let's get started
I'm 100% serious. It's more important for young people to have training in music, art, and physical education than things like computer science. Though a small foundation in computer literacy helps, the skills necessary can be gained in adulthood. Buying a laptop doesn't give the necessary skills.
Of course, buying a violin and forcing the kids to take lessons doesn't necessarily give the skills, either, but the possible benefit is much greater.
See http://www.mca.org.au/mpfl/research1.htm, among other pages, detailing research about how musical skills is much better for cognitive development.
Two years ago I started attending a computer engineering program at Chalmers University of Technology in Sweden. I bought a laptop with wlan when I started, but I sold it about a year later. Why? There were computers available in abundance everywhere and I got tired of toting around a 3kg laptop and my regular books in my bag. I could not afford a lighter laptop at the time. But on the other hand a lighter laptop would probably have a screen that was too small for my taste.
I decided to get a new desktop machine at home and kept my home dir in school in sync with a folder at home using unison. That worked great in both the WinXP and Red Hat environment that the school is using.
Child 4.0 is 15 and I'm putting a desktop in his room in the next week. He helped me out by breaking his bedroom door while trying to slam it on Child 3.0. This allowed me to remove said door without replacement until he demonstrated responsiblity and respect for our home (he will be doorless at least for a couple more years).
.. handtyped sig, nothing to see here ..
I am also using a Linksys Router that has the Parental Control subscription available. I am seriously considering using this to control his web and im access. Anyone have experience with this service?
your sig is hilarious. thanks.
*This article sponsored by Dell*
Anything more addictive and IQ-reducing, such as crystal meth or laptops, should be shielded from kids until they can prove they can handle the less destructive stuff.
Laptops are rare at my college. (and its a pretty expensive private school at that)
The students that do actually have them permantly installed in their rooms.
Basically there are enough computer labs and access to workstations that a laptop is a total waste of money for 99% of people, and if you do get them, dont expect the person to be carrying it around working on homework here and there, they wont be.
Computer labs, roommates and a cheap workstation is all the computer access a student needs. They can type papers everywhere, check email, but a laptop is complete overkill.
Ever since I was little whenever I wanted something my dad would tell me a story about when he was a kid and wanted a new bike. Since it wasn't his birthday or Christmas, my grandfather told him that he would buy the bike if my dad earned half of the money.
It's not about the money, it's about learning the lesson of having to work for the things you want. When I was 11, I wanted a computer. I saved for 6 months doing odd chores, babysitting, etc. and was able to save up $500. With my dad matching, I was able to buy a really crappy used laptop at a computer expo.
That happened to be the first machine I installed Linux on.
It amazes me how people seem to associate owning or having access to computers with increased educational opportunity. There is no evidence to support this falicy, and there is some evidence that computer based learning can actually be detrimental to learning.
Too many schools are putting emphasis on technology, and not spending enough time on basics.
I am a teacher, and a parent (5 kids). I make my living teaching computers and media in a college and programming in university. Personally, I discourage my kids from spending too much time on a computer. I would much rather see them catching bugs, drawing, or hacking wood with tools than sitting in front of the new age boob tube.
Have you read the threads??? Yes, they should have a nice desktop machine, but a cheap laptop is a good thing. It's good that they are too slow to play SIMs or DOOM or whatever memory intensive game is in vogue.
A cheap laptop is ideal for playing educational software.
A cheap laptop is a great way to introduce kids to the world of status and the accompanying responsibility. A kid will work hundreds of hours on educational software when would be unimpressed by a comparably priced set of encyclopedias just because it is cool to use a laptop even if they have to do math and spelling games or learn astronomy. Additionally, you can use it as a way to teach a bit of icarus and daedelus -- use the thing wisely or it melts in the sun -- translation, leave it in a dangerous place and it will get broken or if you're lucky, I'll take it away before it's broken.
And yes, you can get a half dozen cheapo used laptops for less than a new Xbox. And if you are limited for space, which would you rather have in your house: six laptops, six desktops or six xboxes with tv's? Not to mention which power bill would you rather pay?
Well, there's no point asking my advice because the school's already decided to screw him over. But he's got a nice kid, so I've suggested he makes sure she knows how to move data to/from her iPod. And as a little prezzy, I've gotten her a 4GB USB memory stick and the promise of a second computer for home, if she decides that's a workable solution. Why the heck should schoolkids carry computers to and from school, especially one with such strange ideas about what a PC is used for?
I'm a college student, not a parent, but I think that too many kids these days are being spoiled and becoming inadequte with money. I'm not opposed to helping the kids with getting a computer, but saying "here you go" and handing them a $1500 piece of equipment is excessive. I bought my own computer when I was 14 after saving my allowance and report card money for a year. Since then, I've built my own computers without assistance from my parents, and I bought my own laptop for college as well. Computers have a higher priority for me than most, but still I think that the kids should be responsible for working to get their laptop. Hand-me-down computers are more feasible for middle schoolers and high schoolers. But, if they want a new computer, I think they should be responsible for paying for atleast part of it.
My concern with buying kids laptops before college is the damage that the bullies in the school will do. I had a few books stolen/damaged/thrown in the mud, etc, accounting to maybe $200 in the course of the 7 years of middle school/high school. Imagine if that had been a laptop?
I have no doubt that I'll buy my child a laptop, but I will restrict his/her priviledges in bringing it to school, for fear of damage. The utility of a laptop is more that the kid can sit on the couch and surf/do work/etc., bring it to their grandparents' houses, coffeeshops, and friends' houses.
I don't think the mobility is necessary in middle/high school for a student to need a laptop. A desktop machine would work just fine. Most high school students either do their homework (that require computers) at school, where computers are normally provided, or at home. College students are a different story. I go to a college that requires us to purchase a laptop through the school. I see people all time working on papers or research in the caf or outside, on nice days. It's also nice that if something goes wrong, I can take it in, get the hard drive wiped and get a fresh image, or get my wireless card replaced with a fairly short turnaround and no cost (as long as the damage isn't intentional). On the other hand, laptops + access points in boring class = poor grades, but the classes seem to go by a lot faster.
when you want them to learn about caring for a delicate computer. You should connect them to the Internet when they are ready, which means about 15 or older.
And you should take them to the library, much more than you see them playing games on a computer
Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
I think a laptop makes all the sense in the world [because sharing one desktop] with a family is not at all possible.
The article assumes a lot in saying this. My family of four shared a single mac desktop until I was about to leave for college. Sure, there were fights over it (mainly caused by my sister monopolizing 20 threads at a time serving her AIM away messages while I was on and my retaliation by killing all her CPU-hungry processes and logging her off using root powers). But no one ever got seriously hurt.
Bad example. My point is that unless one person is a very heavy computer user (constantly using it for work or coding), sharing a desktop until the kids need a computer for college could very well work.
10 Bits= $.25
100 Bits= $.50
110 Bits= $.75
1000 Bits= 1 byte
I am twice your age and have never experienced any sort of RSI despite being at the keyboard for at least eight to ten hours a day for the past two and a half decades. And I can't tell you how many 72+ hour stints I have accumulated.
But I also get exercise. So not only did I get my kid a laptop, but also a bicycle and I take her out biking everyday after dinner. Not only is it good exercise, but it's a good way to spend time together. Endorphins and tedium are like truth serum. I just ride next to her and let her talk. And when I tell her things she listens. We have great conversations and I am instilling in her the benefits of physical fitness.
Also, I put her to work in the yard taking care of livestock and keeping the woodshed stocked.
It's important to have a laptop, but it's also important not to grow up to be a pastey computer geek -- a tan, fit computer geek is preferable.
Wife "needs" a new laptop for her PhD work, so we're giving the 'ol iBook to our son (my suggestion that she should get a new one - she still loves it). He can't use it by himself, yet (too eager to mash keys yet), but he absolutely loves the learning games on noggin.com. Many are well designed, and age appropriate (he frequently practices vocabulary and pronunciation with Maisy's Blocks, for example).
Laptops are great. Just be sure there is compelling content with which you'll use it to access.
There exists no way of exchanging information without making judgments. --Bene Gesserit Axiom
My blog post on this matter. Lazy to paste it here anyway. Anyway I'm a kid myself, so pardon my n00bness in anyway displayed.
My son, 11 now, has been using one since 4th grade, he is now going into 5th (Middle school hear) and he uses it for typing instead of writing. He has been diagnosed with a form of autism (very mild) and his biggest problem was with motor skills with writing. Previous to using the computer, he was a very strong reader and in math, but his writing never did that well. Now that he has been able to type instead of handwrite, his skills have become almost remarkable. Both my kids have desktops, but the laptop has really made a world of difference, not only with disabilities, but also my son is learning skills that will help him in High School as most teachers require typing of papers by the time they are in 9th or 10th grade. Just my $0.02...
My brother did successfully introduce computers to his kids at an early age.
... and continued to boot. Opening up the main menu, where the games section required me to press an "h". But I didn't see that, as I was on the floor laughing.
When his kid was 5 he cracked his first computer... It was one day I came visiting, when my brother told me that he had just installed a new game, that I should have a look at. He was doing the dishes, so he said I could just go up to the computer and check it out, while he was finishing.
He warned me that he had made a tiny protection program, because his kid did spend too much time at the computer. The kid was about 5 at the time. But he told me that the program would be easy for me to use/get through in order to start the machine.
I went upstairs and sat down at the computer, while his kid jumped onto the bed behind me, eager to help me get started.
Kid: You need to press the round button to start the computer.
I smiled and gently pressed the power button. The computer started (old dos, before Win3.11)...
On the screen stood:
What is 9*7?
My brother had been smart enough to install a simple program that would require some mathematical skills before it would continue booting. My mind started to do the calculation, when the kid interrupted:
Press "h".
I stopped and looked at him sitting on the bed behind me. Just to see what would happen I tried to type an "h" and pressed return.
The computer wrote:
ONLY NUMERICAL INPUT ALLOWED!
PROGRAM TERMINATED.
5 years, and had already cracked the computer so he could play games...
Now my own kid is 3 years old. I think a laptop would be too heavy for him, and I fear he will hack my work computers if he starts now. I think I'll try to wait a couple of years before introducing him to the wonderful world of computing... but then again, I might not. I'm a nerd after all.
-:) Oh no - not again.
www.rednebula.com
An ad driven magazine urges its readers to spend more money. What a shock!
By the way, parents, you will not be able to make your kids smarter by spending more. The way to do it, is to slowly and patiently encourage them to have good practices -- i.e. to read a lot and watch less TV, solve math and logic puzzles etc.
The way I see it, a child (or young-er person) will need a laptop when they constitute the need for a laptop.
How about "when they're mobile"? I have a stepson (I won't say how old he is or what stage of life he's in, it's not necessary.) He's definitely not mobile yet. He spends most of his time in the house here, and he has internet access and a very nice machine.
Now it doesn't matter if he's 8 or 18... he really doesn't need one. If mobility becomes part of his life, he's going places (let's say he were to graduate and go off to college), a laptop might come in handy. Mobility often in this country is coupled with responsibility. You usually are going places (literally) when you have much to do and much responsibility.
When does a child need a car? Or a chainsaw? Well when they need to drive or cut wood. I'm sure each parent can answer the questions differently.
I think the mentality that your child will do better in school because they have a laptop is ridiculous. Sort of like buying them Nike sneakers will make them Micheal Jordan (or whomever). If they need and deserve it, you will know.
FLR
Ok, i am a college student who is studying computer engineering, and i dont even have a fucking laptop.
Laptops are nice. They are cool. They are sometimes useful. But, for most people, they are simply not necessary.
When did having a computer, and now a laptop, stop being seen as a privledge?
My advice: they can have a laptop when they can pay for one (maybe meet them dollar for dollar). Thats how i got my first comp; got a job, and worked for it. And what i payed for that thing, before inflation, is a good bit more than what a mid-range lappy will cost.
If the kid wants it badly enought, they'll work for it. If they dont care for it that much, they wont. If they want it and wont work for it, they suck and/or you are a bad parent. Period.
note: i understand that it isn't the easiest thing for kids to get jobs, especially if they are under 14, but if you look you'll usually find people who will hire kids for occasional but regular odd jobs that pay under the books. Alternately, you can set up a system by which they can earn credit towards their laptop or other large purchase.
We bought our daughter a laptop 5 or 6 years ago, around 7th grade, because she wanted something small and "stylish" to fit on her small desk. By her own choice she did most of her schoolwork by hand however, leaving the laptop for chatting with her friends. Laptops fit kid's rooms much better than do desktops IMHO, and we've really been pleased overall. She's a senior this year and finally needed to upgrade to a newer laptop, which is yet smaller, much faster, and which she'll take to college. (She still chooses to do most of her homework by hand, but she has now automated her music collection.)
Cheers,
Art
I before E except after C! Should be receive.
Simon's Rock College
They should be able to afford to buy their own laptop by the time they actually "need" one.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
In general, children especially Middle School students should have a desktop. In middle school and highschool they're still developing study habits. They need to learn the discipline to sit down and work. With a laptop you're encouraging ADD behavior, and the return is not so great.
Also keep the games off it. If they want games, and they will, make sure they have a dedicated box, games are tempting and addicting, they need to learn discipline and time management as young as possible. Keeping the games system and school system separate will help this.
Someone is gonna scream and yell about this, somebody is gonna say, I had a laptop in middle school and I developed great study skills. It never occures to them they're either the exception and above average or full of crap.If someone is passing you on the right, you are an asshole for driving in the wrong lane.
I carried a box of punch cards around campus, and so can my kid. :-)
[Insert pithy quote here]
For my Master's (Defense and Strategic Studies), I picked up an HP clam-shell palmtop with a keyboard (HP320LX with WinCE 1). It was wonderful for taking notes in class; I could type fast, and have very detailed searchable text notes. Diagrams weren't a problem because I could whip out the stylus and draw straight into text documents. I had hand problems (stupid soccer injury!), which made pen/ink painful - and the stylus was also painful, but at least I didn't have to use it for every word. The huge benefit was that all of my notes were synced to my desktop PC (in my graduate assistant office), making them instantly searchable; I hacked together a simple cross-referencing system and bibliography database, and between the three tools I was very, very productive.
It's important not to get kids using laptops all the time too early: kids need to learn to write, and manage note taking the hard way - but for higher level classes, they can be a good tool if - and only if - the kid has the discipline to not play games in class!
If I were doing my Master's now, I might have purchased a Tablet PC. I know a couple of lawyers and private investigators who find them invaluable for logging case details, taking diagrams in the field, and so on. As much as I hate to promote a Microsoft product, but OneNote rocks their world for this.
Lead developer, http://wisptools.net
Isn't the notion that you would "invest" in a computer for your kid for their school work an outmoded concept? Especially among the more tech-friendly crowd here at /.?
My daughter got her first computer before she was in Kindergarten and well before she could read. Why? Well, why not? I had some 8 or 9 computers hanging around so it wasn't any sacrifice to just put one of them in her room. Plus, it was interesting to see how a TRUE computer newbie reacted to Linux (SuSE 8.x)... but that's besides the point.
She just started 3rd grade yesterday and does so with an iBook as her primary computer. This has nothing at all to do with school. In fact, if she has something from school that can be done on a computer at all, then this will be the first year that that is the case. No, she has an iBook not because it's a good investment in her education but because it's the best choice of a computer for her overall (runs OS X, inexpensive if bought used, can hook up to her 20" monitor but can still take it on road trips).
My (rambling) point here is that with computers (and even laptops) so plentiful and so ubiquitous in our lives, the concept of getting one for your kid just for school is just odd.
It takes most kids 5 years to get through college. So you're at least buying them a new one when they start college. The things keep up with software for 3-5 years depending. So if you're buying one for them in 6th grade you're buying at least 3 laptops.
Personally, I'm probably gonna do what my dad did. I get the new computer, kids get the old one. They can use mine if they show they won't break it. And I'll scrounge up a lappy when they go off to college.
Anyway, let see if it really goes down that way.
I had to my her one (8th grader), just to get MINE BACK!!
In hindsight, I think it was mean to buy her a cheap Windows laptop (mine is a Powerbook) because, now, who KNOWS what's going on on that thing? It's funny sometimes, because she says in that way of wanting something from Dad, "Dad, can I use YOUR laptop? I want to check my e-mail." I'm thinking, "Lord, what's living on YOURS?"
"...already!" I might add.
You can get a gaming console for $200... but try and find a new laptop for less than $1000 !
Meh.
Currently computers detract from the 'learning' experience.
Computers are good to work on, they're good to run through repetative stuff.
They also let you cheat, do things you don't understand (ie FEA).
People tend to skip the theory and get "right to work" when they have a computer. You've got to step back, think what you are going to do, then do it. Giving everyone a computer they think they'll be able to click their way through their education, which kinda defeats the point doesn't it?
how about right after he is bored with his gameboy?
ah, laptops at school! if only i had access to pr0n during my college years...
I don't feel like it...
At Georgia Tech, the IT department sets minimum and recommended specifications for student computers. You could buy a laptop that meets the minimum specifications for roughly the price of buying a desktop that meets the recommended specifications or building a desktop that exceeds the recommended specifications. With most schools demanding a recent OS for compatibility with school-supplied software, nearly all students can run Remote Desktop under MS Windows or VNC under linux distributions. Not all students living away from campus drive cars, and I for one would not put a laptop in the same backpack as my bulky textbooks with a good chance of smashing it to bits in a bicycle accident. I take a USB memory card to school, leave the desktop at home, and still have not spent as much as an equivalent laptop would have cost.
I'll be your candy shop of infinite deliciousity if you'll be my discotheque of endless rump-shaking.
I got my first laptop when I was about 9; it was probably the best thing my father did for me (it was his old one) because not only did it stop me from buggering up his computer by experimenting with Linux, but it also allowed me to learn a lot about Linux and C/C++. It also gave me an inquisitive edge which I might not have gained as I strove to learn just about EVERYTHING about computers.. :)
George Wright
There are some amazing edu tools out there.
www.AudioAssistedText.com is one example (shameless plug by the author). Just point to a word and hear it in a real human voice about 1.5 seconds later. Appropriate for any age!
When Should You Buy Your Kid A Laptop?
When my 800 Mhz iBook gets too slow - which is damn near happening all the time now. There's also The Wife but that's always a threat.
The Luddites were ahead of their time.
Let the little b*astard earn it - then he won't be so quick to lose it.
What?
Why? Because, it was a hand me down from my wife. She watchs her DVDs on it, and plays around with the keyboard and mousepad a bit. After a month or so she knows how to open the laptop, start it up, tell me to fireup the DVD player, pause and track events with the mouse. She also is hard on the machine, but I would have just put it on the closet anyhow.
I say whenever you can afford to give them an old one, do it. They at least ahve alot of fun withthe keyboard and mouse/trackpad and so on. As long as you arent worried they will break it (because I am sure she will eventually).
I bought my daughter a windows CE handheld, an old used one off of eBay for $30. About a month later i found it in her backback withe the screen smashed. She had put it in the back pocket of the backpack and it got crushed.
She was 13 at the time by the way.
So I am glad I did not spend several hundred on it and made me realize she is not responsable enoug to handle the delicate nature of it.
She has a desktop computer, shoot my Son has been using a desktop since he was 2. But the portables are just not tough enough.
I think I will never buy her a laptop, she will need to fork over the money herself, that way she will know how much it cost and respect it.
Computers are the devil.
Don't buy your kids laptops, unless their in college, and need it to even keep up in some of the classes. Let them make a decision in high school - do they REALLY NEED the new car, or do they want a new laptop in addition to the desktop a majority of them already have access to, or even own.
Physics is nothing like religion. If it was, we'd have an easier time trying to raise money!
Hey I'm 11 and I have a laptop in my room, and alot of my friends do 2.Their computers are always screwed up with spy-ware and etc.... I use firefox, ad-aware, and virus protection on my computer.
is working in Middle School where these kids have homework that requires outside sources. Her perspective begins then as Computer as Tool .vs. Game machine as so many kids use them.
Advice to the firstime buyer... "buy well" as my first daughter's machine is running 6 yrs on, now. I bought my second daughter Apple's 12" Powerbook, expect it to last through High School.
If you're going to get a kid a laptop, I suggest you go the cheapest and most durable route possible.
Voila: http://wegenermedia.com/ibk300bby.htm
These are clamshell iBooks, which are basically designed for K-12 kids. They are made with that Fischer-Price ABS plastic for a reason: durability. Wegener Media refurbs iBooks. They are a bear to upgrade, so have Wegener stuff the iBook with all the RAM you can (512MB SO-DIMM, bringing the onboard RAM up to 544MB) and a nice fat hard drive. When I got mine upgraded by them, I got a Fujitsu 30GB drive.
These won't run Tiger without something like X Post Facto to convince Tiger to install, so stick with Panther. Current patch level is 10.3.9. MS Office 2003 will not install on an 800x600 resolution, so look for Office v.X Student-Teacher which is very happy running on a Clamshell.
This is not a good gaming lappie under X. ATI Rage Acceleration, which allowed these machines to play games like Unreal Tournament (1999) and Quake III Arena under Mac OS 9.x, was not carried over to X. There was a whole class-action lawsuit over this, and if you have an old-school iBook or a Beige G3 or a Wallstreet PowerBook you can get the cost of X refunded if you turn your disks in. However, in some cases, this inability to do 3D Acceleration might actually be a good thing.
You should be able to get away with a fully loaded Clamshell iBook for about $500. Yeah, you can also get a new Dell Inspiron lappie for a little more. But that Dell will be toast after a few weeks of being toted around in a kid's backpack. They are flimsy even for adults. Give one to a kid and it's dead meat.
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
...to become infertile. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/12/16/laptops_ca use_infertility/
My dad gave me his old computer when I was around 12. That summer I learned about bbs's and discovered commander keen. Best experience of my life. I learned all about DOS comands and .bat files. A laprop might be better for a college student but I say get the kid weened on to computers by giving him an old one when s/he is around 12.
great idea at some age, but completely non-applicable if you're a family who thinks an extra $20 a month is a big deal, which is a surprisingly large number of people.
https://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
You're probably right. Sorry to come off so cocky. RSI is mysterious and overall I am a very relaxed person which might account for some of my luck because I have really beat on my body working in extreme cold for long hours and bad posture.
On how much I depend on my body, RSI of any kind would really suck. I imagine it's the same for you. My sympathies. I hope you can figure out a way to get around it and it never bugs you again.
You are probably on to something in teaching good posture and taking breaks. A good deal of the exercise I do is focused on relaxing. I work on breathing and keeping my heart rate down during hard work by keeping my body relaxed.
Probably the most important skill to stress with a child is laziness. Don't worry about keeping up, work at your own pace and listen to your own body. Rest before you get tired and stretch before you get tight.
I wish I'd had a good Linux box when I was younger. I had a 386/33 with Slackware, but it wasn't good for much. The opportunity to learn that stuff while learning is that easy would've been great. Kids don't need MS for anything other than gaming. At least Linux will make them learn to install/compile games before they can play them. I had a MSDOS 5 machine for my first family computer. None of my family really knew DOS, but I had to learn to install shareware and figure out pkzip on my own to play games. That's a good driving force to learn with a sweet reward at the end.
As if enough kids weren't being beaten up, or killed, for petty things such as mp3 players, jackets, shoes, etc. Now they have a whole new thing that's sure to provoke more violence because of the higher monetary value.
http://xs4.xs.to/pics/04481/p556222.gif
Fuck, I bought my own computer when I was 16. My parents had a family computer for me to use before that...
But seriously, if your high school aged kid can't hold down a job to buy a computer that costs 400$ then they're not deserving of a laptop anyways.
Like your kid won't explode if they don't have a computer. And maybe "saving up to buy a computer" will help make your kids goal oriented.
Tom
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
i personally consider laptops to be one of the worst investments one can make. i especially wouldn't buy one for a child nor teenager.
If doing others' homework were really that profitable, I'd have been rolling in bling in high school. Or at least I'd have been getting my ass kicked for a reason.
I suppose parents doing kids' homework could lead to the kind of grade inflation you describe.
--grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
My kid attends a well thought out and well executed e-school http://www.appleby.on.ca/ (everyone has a laptop). The sophistication of their 'connective-ness' rivals the best of the corporate world. These kids have attained full 'cultural adoption' of the technology, this is sure to be of benefit long-term. As a counterpoint, there does tend to be many techno diversions, parents must watch closely. And for a 12 year old, a simple paper day timer and a pencil is a better tool for tracking test and assignment due dates. -Dave.
My (private australian) middle school introduced laptops from 4th grade onwards. I was in 7th grade when it started (1997) but was already very familiar with computers by then. By 98 They wired the entire middle school and high school with ethernet and power sockets all over the floor (under little latches so you could still walk and place desks etc.) So of course this lead to quake I deathmatches in class :-) Because it was such an early adoption though, most of the teachers did NOT know how to integrate the laptops into the classes very productively. The few that did though gave us an early introduction to some very useful things, and ive been comfortable with programming and more computer savvy in general since then. One things though, buying a kid a laptop still sounds like a bad idea to me. In my situation it was ok, because every pupil had one, but if your kid is the only kid that shows up to class with a laptop, that will be a major distraction. a desktop at home would be just as useful (and far less breakable, although the 4th graders who got laptops were surprisingly careful of theirs)
"Here, Timmy, we got you a laptop! Now, check your bookmarks and I'm sure you'll find them 'educational', if you know what I mean. If you have any questions, try a Google search. And no taking the laptop into the bathroom, mister!"
My (one) son is 5 and has used the computer (for games and such) since was 2.5. Now he is able to browse the internet (with supervision), play advanced games, utilize the keyboard & mouse, load software, operate Google Earth (his favorite), etc... He is even aware of (some) differences between the Windows and Linux worlds. He is comfortable and confident with computers. Start your kids early.
One ring to bind them - should probably have more fiber and less rings in their diet.
Tell me you don't work on a computer, at home... boundaries are useless defenses against ubiquity.
Computer's are ubiquitous. There is no longer separation in any meaningful sense for our children. The car that takes them to school has too many computer's to count. The phone she uses works because a computer makes it do so. The TV viewing she watches is almost entirely composed by computers. Her school grade is the product of a computer. The doctor's office has her sign-in by computer. Separation is romantic, noble but unrealistic.
Boundaries were useful in the day when societies were nationalized and people individualized. Work purposed people 8-5 then stopped. Corporations repurposed the organization around the Computer during the 90's. The resultant side-effect removed individuality, character, loyalty, and personal problems from the workflow equation. Now in '00's children are subject to the same repurposing in curriculum to the goals of larger organization.
If computers are ubiquitous - work can be continuous. The Internet makes it so. There are no boundaries the Network cannot cross. There is WiFi and where it can't roam 3G wireless is bridging until wireless it is ubiquitous. Welcome to reality! (or at least a computerized version of the Future)
I bought my kid a palm. After he learns time management and shows responsibility, then he get a loptop and surf porn at starbucks.
If you're near Richmond, VA, then you may want to take advantage of Henrico County's iBook sale next week.
:).
They're selling the county's inventory of 1000 iBooks for $50 each. Limit one per person, and you do have to be a Henrico resident (or know one
http://www.henrico.k12.va.us/ibooksale/
bp
I was bought a new OS/2 powered Thinkpad for my 11th birthday (damn, that dates me pretty specifically), and as a result I was able to get used to UNIX and even MacOS significantly easier. I had my own machine to mess around on - quite important, really - and I had to fix my own feckups. I had it quad booting at one stage, nice fun activity that that is... I could have managed with my own desktop bar the fact that my family travelled quite a bit, and lugging a Dell Dimension wasn't ever practical.
If your kid actually needs a laptop, (not just their own machine), and you can afford it, get them one. You should then even be able to take the PS/2 or similar out of their room, if they have one - and you can remove the TV too. However, if you're just getting them one to use AIM and play a few games, don't.
Here is one simple fact: computers don't educate people. The drive to learn is entirely something particular to the individual. Just as many people have said, you have to instill in your child the will to learn -- to enjoy learning. With the proper motivation and drive to learn a laptop is just like any other tool, and can be used to create wonderful results.
There can't be any blanket judgement on giving computer technology to children. Children will all learn differently. Just like when you look at half the posters here saying "a laptop was worth it's wright in gold through school" and the other half saying "just give me a pad and a pen." Who's to say that one or the other side is correct, or has better insight into the issue? Everyone simply has to be honest to their (or their child's) needs: that is what parenting is all about.
My goat's young kid doesn't need a laptop. My child, however, may do.
## NB: Comment here
I had an older Panasonic Toughbook hanging around, and my son started using it at 2 1/2 years old. Its a subnotebook, so its got a 8.4-inch screen and downsized keyboard which is perfect for his smaller hands.
He uses it to play learning games at SesameStreet.com, as well as occasionally for Noggin's website. He's now 3 1/2 and in the past year, this has helped him to already begin to read fairly well, and I think in general has helped his mental development.
We make sure he only uses it when we are around to supervise, but he can turn it on, start up Firefox and either go directly to Sesame Street's site (his start page) or click on the bookmark for Noggin. When he's done, he closes everything down and turns it off himself.
The other nice thing is that since it is a Toughbook, it's got a spill-proof keyboard, and ruggedized features like a impact-gel around the hard drive. I don't think I could find a better computer for him.
Have people started taking notes in class on laptop?
I was in school from 92-96, and by the end of that time laptops were pretty common sites in libraries, but I was about the only one geek enough to drag one to class...an ancient Tandy (no hard drive, but decent large gameboy-style CGA screen and a nice text editor hardwired in) and then a cheapy 486 so I could finally copy sketches without resorting to ASCII art...
It was nice, I always had notes I could read...
SO YOU'RE GOING TO DIE: The Comic for Dealing with Death
I think it's easier to start off with the more accessible OK Computer Laptop.
My parents never got me a computer. In fact, until my junior year of high school, they tried to discourage my interest in computers. Fear of the unknown, I guess. Anyway, I already had a hobby of trash-picking, and sometime around 1999 I began seeing computers in the trash. I learned much more from dragging old computers home and fixing, disassembling, and rebuilding them than I ever would have learned with a shiny new laptop my parents bought for me.
When your kid can put up half the money toward the purchase himself. That probably means when he is a teenager.
I like how the article mentions a perfect society where every child carries a laptop computer to record data from their science experiments. The reality is that this doesn't even happen in college. School systems need to focus on classroom learning instead of using some "lack of technology" excuse or using the computer as a crutch.
How many books could you buy for the price of a laptop? Or alternatively, take your kids on lots of camping trips or to museums and aquariums with that money. Then, they would have something useful to say, or valuable to remember, instead of hour upon hour of dead time staring at a screen.
My three year old son gets around in in Windows quite well with left and right clicking. (No, X Windows sucks so don't suggest it). He knows how to open programs he wants (such as browsers), open whatever he wants within (such as bookmarks, etc.) and navigates well within most well-designed kiddie sites. He has been honing his leet skillz since playing City of Heroes with me a year ago.
Not saying that a laptop should be purchased for a 3 year old but I think kids should undoubtedly have their own computer. By the time they are in middle school and they have shown a good amount of responsibility (good passwords, constant backups, on top of security/antivirus updates, etc.), I say why not a laptop for school.
By the time my son hits 6th grade, this debate will be moot.
ChozSun
ChozSun.com
Just use a lot of \ - / | _ bars. I used a laptop for all my notes in CS courses. The only thing I had to use paper for was in my AI class where we were doing diagrams of decision trees. Man those things fan out quickly!
Be creative. You _can_ use a laptop for everything if you force yourself to figure out ways to record stuff so you'll remember what the teacher was talking about later.
Although, I type at 120wpm so that helps. My handwriting is also illegible so I don't have much a choice.
Is that learning isn't always fun and children raised that way will only learn /when/ it is fun.
I, for one, don't want my children to limited by only learning that which is fun to learn.
If the kids want a laptop, they can buy it themselves after they've earned the necessary funds.
what happened to teaching the value of hard work? Kids these days expect laptops, cars, iPods, PlayStations and $50 games. Forget that. Want toys? Do some work around the house and earn it. I'll even pay you $10/hr to help in the yard, wash the car, wash the dog, clean the bathrooms, and other various things that need to be done around the house.
Oh, and it also depends on how good the grades are. Kids don't *need* laptops to learn. There are still plenty of books left in the local libraries.
Sorry, I'm just sick of seeing how technology in schools is wasted. I'm sick of seeing money being spent on tech toys for schools just because it's there.
When you think your child is mature enough!
Seriously. Each child's needs are not the same as others', so why not let the people who ostensibly know the child best and are theoretically capable of handling responsibility to judge? Why not have parents do the parenting, and let the self-appointed experts shoot themselves?
Dad?
What?
I need a laptop so I become more efficient at school.
Okay, son, grab a pen snd some paper. Here's your questionaire, you get a good score, you get yourself a thinkpad.
Q1. Write a 1500 word essay outlinining the differences between scheduled and self paced learning.
Q2. Describe how to find the height of a mountain using basic trigonometry.
Q3. Make a hand-free diagram of mayor througfares of the city/town were you live.
Q4. What's a paradox? Give 2 examples.
Q5. Did you know all this answers can be found
easily on the Internet without you having to
think and reflect about the question but
just using a search engine to pop up the answer? Explain how is that better as
a teaching aid?
- these are not the droids you are looking for -
You can't just do a study or survey and determine that "7th. grade is the exact, right time to buy a laptop for your kid" or whatnot.
Each situation is unique, and some people mature more quickly than others too.
I agree with the comment in the original article about laptops generally seeming more appropriate or useful for high-schoolers when their school already uses them in a structured way.
But even then, it all depends.... Do you really still only have one PC at home that the whole family is trying to share? Many people do, but with the plummeting prices of computers, many people already own 2 or 3 of them. Your teen begging for a new laptop may just want it to take to friends' houses and copy the latest games - rather than a legitimate school-related need.
I recently talked to the I.T. director of a local private high-school, and he said they're under some pressure lately to start issuing laptops to their students (mainly because a couple other private schools in the area already do). But his take on it was, they can do a much better job by purchasing 50 or 60 laptops, putting them on rolling carts with chargers integrated into them, and letting teachers dole them out to students for use during a course. Then, put them back away again when they're done with them. This solves the complaint about students having to "go to a computer lab" any time a teacher wants to include the computer in a course - while ending concerns of students having their laptops stolen or broken taking them to or from class, having adequate places to plug them in to charge up during school, etc. Plus, the I.T. dept. can efficiently roll out software updates to all of them at once, when needed - instead of having to struggle to get their hands on each and every student laptop at some point or other, to get people up-to-date.
Her only annoyance is that coverage stops at the end of the driveway. Whenever we stop for dinner or stay in a hotel the first thing she checks for is hot spots. She wants a cellular card for Christmas.
Ron
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
My take? BUYING a laptop to him? NEVER.
Now, to salvage one, it's a different matter.
My wife has an old Compaq 486 that I'm refurbishing to put it on my 6 year old's room. My present laptop (a Crusoe 5400) or my next laptop will be his, three to four years from now, if my finances permit.
It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
I did notice that someone must have jumped on them, because the latest versions do have a mention at the end - "oh, and you can even study on it." Those weren't in the first of those commercials, so they must have caught at least a little flack.
Wtf? A laptop cannot be described in any way as "affordable". Are you dot-com millionairres out of your minds? The idea that kids need laptops is laughable in at least three different ways.
Never.
I was raised to work for the things I want. It's not like my parents couldn't buy me car, or buy me a computer, or pay for me to go to school, but they wouldn't. I'm doing the same for my kids.
I bought my first PC my last year of high school (1998). I had a family PC I could use before then. I bought my first car after my first year of college. I bought my first house after my fourth year of working full time.
My parents didn't buy me anything and although I hated them for it at the time, I really appreciate it today.
Or you can probably expect lower Math and Science grades. Computers can either be a tool or a diversion. Children usually prefer the diversion. Every child in enrolled public school 12th grade down to 4th grade gets a laptop where I live. After seeing the grades go down, several parents returned them. The poorer grades have caused a at least one high school to be placed on academic probation.
Get a free ipod.
What laptop would you suggest ?
I was thinking of something light-weight with a long-lasting battery and that doesn't overheat so much.
Power is not that important, as it probably wouldn't be used for games, but mosty for some text editing, google and email.
Any suggestions ?
Buy them them the laptop bag first. If they still have it in 4 weeks, put a laptop in it.
Make laptops sessential for school, I say! It'll help ensure that the economic underclass of the working poor/unemployed remain that way, with their children slowly falling behind at school not just because they don't have enough to eat, but also because they have no hope of affording a new "school supply" which costs 200x as much as a Finder Binder (or whatever kids use thse days) full of paper.
Honestly. I'm not saying kids shouldn't have access to computers in education, but laptops?! Unnecessary and economically discriminatory. And if the gov't can afford to buy them FOR all the poor kids, they can certainly afford to put that money into improving education in more fundamental ways instead.
Freedom: "I won't!"
For years I got my dad's old computers as hand-me-downs. He helped me with a few upgrades to make them a little more usable. Of course this presented a strong motivation to learn about Linux.
I didn't get a laptop until my junior year of high school. It was a big Christmas present. Nothing fancy, a refurbished Toshiba, but it was awesome. A little slow though. The next summer I saved up enough to buy a nicer Dell, which lasted until the screen was shattered (I still don't know how).
By all means make sure kids have computers and tools, especially if they're interested in more than just games. Laptops are a little more fragile and expensive, though, and I think parents should hold off until they know the laptop will be taken care of.
And be sure to get the extended service plan.
-John
Getting a desktop is a great solution for the upgradeability if you're going to be using it for many years. I had my desktop at school (upgraded a couple years straight), but I didn't need to own my own laptop at school. Why's that? My school provided laptops for checkout when they were needed. I could get a pentium 4 with windows xp when I needed it just by swiping my student ID. I had a USB drive that I used for all of my necessary files. You could even install custom software needed for computer science classes. There were even some that were set aside for particular classes. All I had to do was pay about $20 in technology fees every semester. Well worth it.
I was lucky to have access to computers from a relatively early age (5ish) because my dad worked for a University that gave him a Mac SE when he became a professor. Since then we had a series of Macs and then PCs in the house over the years (Mac SE -> Powerbook 160 -> Mac LC3 -> HP Pavillion 200MHz -> eMachine 500MHz) until I went off to college, at which point I built my own machine.
The way it always worked was it was the FAMILY computer, not mine (though I was the only one really using it). This meant it had to be in an accessable room (i.e. not my bedroom) and I couldn't lock away any files on it or bar anyone else from any part of the PC for any reason. I also had to turn over the computer whenever anyone had a real need for it. This was basically a zero-privacy deal where what I was doing on the computer could be checked at a moment's notice.
I was caught surfing porn once. I was told that if I was caught again, it would be the end of computer and net access for a LONG time to come. The rule basically was if they caught me doing something bad, that was my first and only warning. The PC was not mine, the connection was not mine, I had to share it and be open to inspection whenever they felt like it.
I was still able to strip the thing down, rebuild it and learn all the ins and outs of it. But I knew I there were risks and concequences to doing "bad" stuff. My parents were able to keep an eye on my activities without keeping me from learning. THey were also aware of all the violent video games I played, they knew because they had to take me out to buy it, and they'd come up and watch me play every now and then.
It was the correct balance (IMO) of parental responsibility and child freedom. I don't think it's a good idea to give a young kid their own laptop and send them off to their rooms. It's too easy for them to get lost in the bad stuff, and too hard for the average parent to monitor. If I someday have kids, there will be a family PC setup in the same room as my equipment. The kids will have largely free reign over it, but it won't be hidden from sight, they'll know what is and isn't allowed and the consequences will be clearly outlined.
Also, I know I took much better care of my computer equipment once I had to earn the money to buy and maintain it. When it was given to me by my parents, I just sort of took it for granted.
You're kidding yourself if you think you can buy your kid a computer and they will use it for "educational purposes". They're going to play games, play with MS Paint and if you provide themn with a printer, they might type stuff out for printing. That's about it.
I graduated in Software Engineering from a UK university back in 2002, laptops were just starting to take off for students and only one person on my course actually had one. He was the guy with all the gadgets and only took it to play games. I would argue that it was more practical being able to quickly sketch notes and diagrams and I learned far more without the distractions. My current Girlfriend is a law student at in Canada and I was shocked when I went into her lecture and EVERY student has one, they all insist they are essential and couldnt do without them. Anyway, IMHO, they are way less useful in a comp/sci engineering environment when you are supposed to be learning theory as opposed to taking notes. As for my kids. They can have one when theyve delivered the newspapers to pay for it.
Well, not exactly never. Does anyone remember reading an article about some executives at Intel (or some huge Tech company) saying that they didn't want their kids using computers at school? It kind of made sense. They want their children to learn to do things on their own before they have a computer do it for them.
I'm afraid that if we introduce computers to children too early that they will lose the ability to be creative, think for themselves, and troubleshoot.
-Nick
"A plan fiendishly clever in its intricacies"- Homer Simpson
"When Should You Buy Your Kid A Laptop?"
When they can afford it.
The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions that I wish it to be always kept alive
Let the little fuckers work for their toys!
I have two daughters. We got a dedicated machine for my older daughter when she hit middle school, since the homework schedule meant she needed to use it every night. We'll get a second for the younger one this fall (flat-panel iMacs).
Laptops are a bit harder to assess. The only times she's needed a laptop in middle school have been for occasional presentations. (She's fairly rabid anti-PC. As she said of the middle school's mandatory PC traning, "You'd think they'd realize that if they have to spend a semester teaching you how to use it, there's something wrong.") I think a hand-me-down laptop will be fine through middle school for both kids. Whether she needs one in high school will depend on how much work she does at home, and how much she does elsewhere.
This all sounds remarkably elitist of course. But then, all the kids in the 7th grade language classes had an assignment to make a five minute movie in the language they were studying. Sure, you could check-out a movie camera from the library and shoot it straight through with no editing. But the A+ grade was my daughter's iMovie/iDVD cooking show presentation. Complete with soundtrack, time-lapsed cooking, commercials with special effects, and out-takes. (And the only thing I did was burn the DVD for her.) So you do what you can to keep them on the bleeding edge.
I am a practicing physician. Illegible handwriting by physicians is a huge problem and is tolerated less and less every year. Doctors have been disciplined for illegible records and also successfully sued when uninterpretable notes or orders resulted in patient harm. We are very strongly urged to use block letters rather than cursive writing for all medical records. Hopefully electronic medical records will become more widely used and put an end to this problem.
If they can't use the family computer (and learn to share it with everyone else that has to use it) they can save up the money to buy their own.
For me, that will be right after I buy my kid a car....
If I don't put anything here, will anyone recognize me anymore?
But maybe you could run one by your posts every so often.
"Hardly used" will not fetch you a better price for your brain.
My daughter has known her way around a computer since she was 3 or 4 years old. For a long time we all shared the same PC; but once she got into junior high it became obvious this would no longer work - many of her homework projects required doing research and writing papers, which took up a lot of time. So when our campus bookstore (I work at a university) had iBooks available for $850, we bought her one.
The mobility is not essential to her, but it is helpful. Several of her friends have laptops, and they will all occasionally get together to work on joint projects (no, really, I've seen them actually doing homework - not that they don't play around a lot too). Works a lot better than trying to collaborate on homework via IM, although I've seen them doing that as well.
Tangentially - we really need to do something to make it easier for kids whose parents can't afford to drop $500-$1000 (or more) on a computer. School computer labs around here don't cut it - they're mostly rather old Macs and PCs running older crap operating systems. The homework assigned nowadays seems to just about assume everyone has access to a computer. Maybe I need to just run around with a baseball bat and "talk" to the parents who vote against the school levies and bond issues around here...
#DeleteChrome
| Having a computer just makes them more dependant
| on the spell checker
heh. not if they're like their parents...
I got the kids identical (used) laptops when they were five and eight, respectively. That's when we moved to the new house.
The only docking station is physically secured to a desk that is in the den, where the screen can be seen by anyone in the three most used rooms in the house. This, incidentally, means that anyone sitting in my favorite chair, or working in the kitchen, can easily see anything the kids are doing on the Internet.
My spouse and I have machines with wifi. And they are password-locked, yes, and the wireless net is heavily secured and stealthed, etc. etc. etc.
Oddly enough, I trust my kids. But that doesn't mean I'm a pushover...
The idea is that by the time the kids are old enough to have unmonitored Internet access, they will already have encountered all the stuff that is best explained by a parent, and will be able to make informed decisions about what they want to see and do.
They already know about porno spam, since my son entered his email address in a McDonald's promotion (yes the hamburger chain) and Mickey D's has apparently passed it on to the world at large.
This is one of those "think of the kids - what a benefit" ideas that in practice will have zero or negative effect on kids.
As earlier posters have stated the kids won't be doing educational things on the laptops for starters.
What also flies in the face of reality is a large chunk of parents can not afford this. Laptops will become the new status symbol. Who's got the fancy expensive model, as apposed to the on sale this week model. Or worse yet, the government assigned "my family is on welfare" donation laptop model. What kids wants to carry that around. Its the high school social pecking order on steriods.
Nice thought but how about putting money in the actual schools, more specifically the ones in poor neighborhoods that don't even have books.
at birth; well not exactly -- my son's been on his laptop since he was two or three. A bit tough on the LCD and CD/DVD drive. But totally taught himself through trail and error clicking. Actually prefers the mousepad to the mouse!
I think you may be looking for this:
e 205.htm
http://www.resurgence.org/resurgence/issues/quinc
Also a great feature is that my PowerBook is always asleep. I can use my laptop more often if I don't have to wait for it to come out of hibernation, etc. Plus the fact that I don't worry about spyware or viruses while some of the other kids in my class bring their laptop to school and then can't use it because it is so messed up with malware.
I also do video work with Final Cut Express and it really makes a difference when the teacher asks for a video project. No "edited in the camera" crap but professionally done video work.
So while this is a bit of a plug for Apple, the iBook and the PowerBook make great companions for 10th grade and up students. I wouldn't recommend any laptop for below 10th grade... it just isn't needed. Even in highschool it isn't always needed. But if you have the right tools then the computer works for you, not against you. :-)
And the fewer games available for OS X are a bit of a plus in terms of distraction.
I am giving my two sons my laptop this weekend. I just got a new one from work. They are eight and three. My eight year old knows more about computers then some people I work with. He has had a pc since he was two. He didn't really start using it until three. My three year old I just taught how to use my laptop six months ago. I taught him using the touch pad. He was playing childplay in linux within the first hour. To many adults think a young child can grasp how to use a computer. They would be suprised at there children if they would just give them a chance.
during business hours.
Build a man a fire, he's warm for one night. Set him on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.
three years ago, the state of maine gave each student entering the seventh grade a spanking new i-book. meanwhile i was still slogging away on a pIII box you had to whack every fifteen minutes to keep the noise manageable.
my sister elizabeth, at the onset of middle school was typing probably 6 wpm, she'll be a sophomore this year and i am sure she maxes out now at around 65wpm. not to mention her buddylist can be wrapped around my own too many times to mention.
students get to keep the laptops until they graduate HS, and can opt to purchase the computers
at a remarkably reduced price (considering they'll be 6 years obsolete)
despite her new found typing acuity, she still manages to ruin the home computer with spyware, malware etc.
i think the program (short lived due to bedgetary constraints, Bushwhacked!) is a great and forward thinking one. getting young people aclimated to tech that is more ubiquitous and therefore more necessary each year is important to both their future success and the future success of our economy and the global one.
>>Laptops aren't necessary...
Yes they are. One word: Roommate. Okay, make that two words "inconsiderate roommate." Okay, lots of words: "obnoxious roommate on his way to flunking out who won't shut his damned annoying music/tv/mouth off or keep his friends away long enough for me to study & write."
There are (lots of) times when a roommate makes a shared dorm room less than the best environment for work. Being able to pick up an iBook and take it down to the coffee shop, or the library, or even outside under a tree in order to work for a few hours is indispensible, IMO.
My son is two, and I am already thinking of buying him one. He obviously takes an interest in mine. In many ways, a desktop is more practical, but I want him out in the living room with the rest of the family while he's figuring it out. He won't take it out of the house, though.
I'll probably just put a keyboard banger on it. When he's older, I will set it up with linux at runlevel 3...if he wants to figure out how to play games on it or download pr0n, he'll have to figure out how to get X going first...
All you need to know.
I purchased a T21 just before going to college last year. At the time, it cost me just over $600. Now I could get the same refurbished Thinkpad for under $500.
It's a 800 Mhz machine but it is built like a tank. I just wanted a laptop for taking notes and working away from my dorm room. I don't need a fast laptop because I do most of my work on my Athlon 64 desktop system.
I originally went to college from 87-92. For those of you too young to remember, no one had laptops in the classroom at the time. I started a new grad program last year. Most of us have laptops. However, I still have the habits from college. I look at the prof when they speak. Everyone else is off checking email or IMing with people, and I do some of that, but I like to pay attention, or at least look like it. Consequently, all my profs think I'm hyper attentive and engaged. I got offerred a TA position on pretty much that alone.
That's gotta fit into your schema somewhere
I am hard pressed to believe that computers are especially useful in learning, except in two areas, online searching and programming.
Much of what students seem to do with a computer sometimes seems like so much eye candy. You word process your paper instead of type it, put it in proportional Verdana font instead of mono, put bullets and footnotes and italics in with gay abandon. Or you make nice drawings with a vector drawing program instead of by hand. Or, as one poster said elsewhere, you type copious notes and then do searches on them later, instead of (say) thinking hard about what you're hearing as you hear it, and taking minimal but well-organized notes, which worked for generations before this.
But the availability and common use of online information is completely new to this generation, I think. In decades previous we'd truck on down to the library and read books. That meant we rarely got the latest info, and often our info was more restricted -- we didn't find much stuff representing fringe viewpoints, or the viewpoints of people from quite different cultures -- and also, of course, we tended not to find much trash and outright garbage, because it had all been through a lot of review and editing. We didn't get much in the way of unfiltered raw mass opinion.
Now we do. And it seems to me a paradigm shift has occured, and we always will. So exposing kids to the new way we get information -- fast, unfiltered, copious, spasmodically -- and teaching them how to judge it, winnow it, use it responsibly and successfully -- these are very important things we should be doing, and they do need a computer.
I also wish students used those computers to learn programming, because programming teaches the key intellectual skill of debugging your ideas. Too often we think that because an idea is beautiful and successful and perfect in our imagination it will be so in the real world. Programming your ideas teaches very well that, alas, it doesn't work that way, and teaches you a healthy respect for the difference between theory and reality.
# Please try to keep posts on topic. # Try to reply to other people's comments instead of starting new threads.
This sig is false.
only after you buy your OK Computer.
I got my first computer very early in life. Or I should say that my father got his first computer very early in life. God bless the man though, he wanted ME to learn about them, and didn't care if I fucked it up, opened it up, or did whatever. When he bought a sound card an old 8-bit sound blaster, for Christmas, so I could play games with sound, he took so long to install it, that I ended up opening up the computer when he wasn't home, reading the manual, setting the jumpers, installing it, loading the drivers, and get it working.
When he got home, he was a little pissed, and asked if I even knew what I was doing. I said not really, but I learned some things. That kind of put a smile on his face. From then on he pretty much let me fuck with it however I wanted. His brothers (my uncles) used to always give him shit for letting me spend so much time on that bitch, fucking with it.
Further down the road I ended up getting an internship on a help desk, when they outsourced that, rather than fire me, they threw me on the networking team, which was advanced for me, and took a lot of time to catch up on, but within a few years I was making $70,000 and considered a valuable asset to the team.
I ended up forsaking the whole damn thing for a career in the Marine Corps at age 26, but that is a whole entire different story
My uncles in the meantime were trying to push computers on their children, trying to get them to embrace them the way I did, to no avail. I don't know that had they done it when they were younger if they would have taken to it either, but I do know that unless the parents are willing to let them take care of it, let them fix the problems, install the upgrades, and only maybe guide them, they are never going to grow up to be anything more than your typical AIM using, blogging, hig school teen.
I don't know that HAVING a computer alone is the answer. I don't think the average kid is interested in that kind of crap. I know I'm kind of a weird freak... Meh, just my rambling input into what it did for me to have a computer as a child...
having a laptop in class never really helped me. sure, i could type up notes, but i don't take many to begin with anyhow. i found that in the majority of my classes, i ended up using pen and paper anyway, as a math/cs major. diagrams, flow charts and little visiual queues greatly out numbered raw code that was generated in my classes.
now, the one technological advance that would benefit EVERY STUDENT, 100%, no matter their computer literacy, typing speed, course load or distraction threshold, is a simple, affordable ebook reader. make the viewable screen 8x10 or 11, use e-paper so it can run for months on a set of watch batteries and pad the living shit out of it so it'll be more durable. distribute recquired school texts as PDF on CF cards and you've just solved one of the biggest problems in american schools: students who have to lug 50lbs of text with them throughout the day because they don't have time between periods to stop off at dormrooms/lockers for the next round.
this is where the inovation should be. add a simple input interface and you could have information cross referenced between documents and suppliments. figure out how to make ultra-low energy draw wifi cards and you could link them to a national database for easy inquiries on specific topics. hell, you could have two models, the Standard that displayed and cross-referenced the info on the CF card, and the deluxe that allowed the user to "take notes" and link it to a specific page of a text (to accommodate those of us who like to write in the margins). if you had one of these designed like a portfolio with one screen on either side of the fold you could make one side the "book" side and the other the "note" side..
we're really missing the boat on this one, folks. students in general don't need full fledged laptops. all they need is an easy and convenient way to read and reference text.
in this scenario, they students who would truly benefit from laptops could still have one. but i'm willing to bet that the percentage of stuents nowadays who could really use a laptop to broaden their education to be around 5-7%, no greater than 15%. the rest would either use it in the fashion i describe for the e-book or use it to dick around in class while the teacher isn't looking..
Rise up in the cafeteria and STAB them with your plastic forks!
Freshman Year of High School is when it's appropriate to get your kid a laptop.
Before them you want them on your desktop so there tetheared and can be properly monitored by there parents.
I got mine as a freshman in high school, my sister also got one in her freshman year of high school.
I go to Mission Viejo High School and we have a laptop program so we were able to use the laptops for eduction along with fun.
http://DiabloHeat.com | http://Kyle.TheOCSucks.com | http://TheOCSucks.com
I have two little boys. A notebook touch pad is much easier for a 2 year old than a mouse. A mouse seems more like 3 or 3.5 year old stuff. There is lots of educational software on Windows that is cheap. A computer is great for teaching the alphabet, sounds of letters, vocabulary, reading, etc. And it also is good for playing educational DVDs. The kids can click on what parts they want to watch. When my older boy was about 3 my 1 year old figured out he could pop the keys off the portable. So eventually all the keys came off, but none of the software we were using cared. We got a Walmart notebook for about $600 and it has worked well for more than a year in spite of some rather rough treatment.
I've been around computers ever since I was seven and eight years old. My father was just getting into Web design, coding, and the like, but never thought I'd take up on the trade. He monitored me while I was younger, but as I grew, I got a computer in my room at the age of eleven. (Let's just say I have more sense than others my age. I wasn't one to be picked up by pedophiles in Yahoo! Chatrooms.)
I saved up for my Dell Inspiron 1200 on my own last year, when I was in the 8th grade. I'm actually on it now. I adore it, probably since I've been wanting one (and asking for one every Christmas) ever since my parents can remember, so when I saved up for it and worked for the money, I was immensely proud of myself.
Now, I have to agree with some people when they say that high schoolers aren't mature enough for laptops. I've seen some my age handle their cell phones (and if I was their parent, I would make them pay for it). I also won't be taking my laptop to school this year, mainly because I'm not getting it stolen from me and I'm not letting it get broken in the halls.
So, I think if the child can handle it, and has been around computers for a while, then the child should get a laptop. But not just some kid who doesn't know a PC from Mac or Linux from Windows. But then again, they shouldn't even be around computers if they don't know Linux from Windows.
Remembering that this was about pre-college kids. They already conceded the college-age ones.
What i haven't seen is the issue of actually carrying it around.
Haven't many schools discontined issuing lockers?
Would your kid really want to lug this around along with the 25lb of textbooks ?!? How do physically carry it if your backpack is full? Carrying it seperately won't cause an issue with the kid banging it into things?
All that, plus the obvious issues of theft and oversight of use, seems a questionable idea to me. Get them a desktop. Put it next to yours if trust is an issue.
If they completely replaced books with computers, great. But that's not what is addressed here. I am guessing the textbook companies would charge you full price for an ebook and DRM it to death anyways.
Sure, buy the little thug or thugette a laptop. Just get them a nice used one to lose or have stolen the first week of school, and you will be much less upset with him/her.
Goddamned kids! Get off my lawn!
Different kids would be interested in having a portable computer to different extent. Ask your kid. If he wants to get one, it's probably time. If he is ambivalent, let him continue using the home desktop (one of).
As for what to buy, if you can afford it, I'd recommend buying a Tablet PC (convertible). It might make him more popular in class (though it might not), it's very useful for taking notes in the class and it's just plain cool. Not to mention that it will be common in 2-3 years and you would ensure your child stays ahead of the curve.
Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
Well, yes I agree with this, and also no, I don't.
:-)
I recall my parents and teachers having similar arguments when my highshool considered introducing scientific calculators to the maths and science classes... At that time these devices cost about $120, which was a fair amount to spend on a 7th-grader in 1987 -- you could get 3 good maths text books for that money!
There were concerns that us pupils would lose the ability to do arithmetic in our heads and not be able to count change at shops, etc. Also there was concern of cheating on tests and exams.
The same argument of a loss of imagination and creativity could also be made about television, by the way. And with today's programming I'm beginning to think that this old argument might actually have merrit... but I'm probably just getting old... I feel that it's actually the education system that is most responsible for my loss of childhood imagination, but I'm getting off-topic, sorry.
Anyway, about the calculator: It was introduced in my 7th-grade maths class and I had a nifty solar-powered model. I've never been good at arithmetic anyway, but I can still do basic addition, subtraction and multiplication in my head, so I don't need to carry one with me all the time to catch out someone short-changing me today. I do think that the calculator was actually a help in class: it freed me from the burden of my poor arithmetic enough to learn the finer points of the mathematics I was being taught.
I would never have understood standard deviation or simultaneos equasions if I had been too distracted about what sqrt(47 / 2.5) ^ 3 equals to...
As for cheating, well, you can confiscate equipment. Besides, you still need basic understanding of a sensible answer: If you enter 12 / 4 into a calculator and it anwsers 0.3 then you need to know that this is not in a sensible range (you must have bumped the 0 key and entered 12 / 40). If you can't figure that much out, then a calculator will be no help anyway.
I'm a strong believer in Steve Job's ideology of computers as "bicycles for the mind". The trick I see is finding when "too early" is, and this is where I agree with parent post. We need to teach our kids how to walk before they can run, but then they must be allowed to run. I think that the only way to really be sure when it's not still too early is to get involved with your kids, and judge for yourself. Have them involved in the decision too. If you delegate this responsibility to schools, it's too easy for the kid to be held back or advanced too soon because the school must necesarily choose the "right" time based on the median of their pupils maturity.
There is also the issue of safety on the Internet. Definately you should think of Internet as PG/M rated at least, and always supervise. But you don't have to get a laptop with an internet connection for it to still be useful for a young child. Just make sure you can supervise when they get on the Net. I probably will not let my kids on the net until they are much older than the earliest time I would get them a laptop -- these are very different tools, so my feeling is to treat them different and keep them separate.
Obviously, I didn't have a PC until much later in school, so it has not contributed to the poor spelling of this post!
“Our opponent is an alien starship packed with nuclear bombs. We have a protractor.” — Neal Stepnenso
And they should have a pony too!
The computer is a help, but it really shines if you also have a digital camera. Snapshotting whiteboards is great! (make sure the flash is off) Put a microphone on the lecturn and you can make a simple multimedia presentation of each lesson with almost zero effort. You should still take notes, but it can really help fill in the gaps when you re-read your scribbling and can't figure out what they h*ck the prof was talking about.
When I sent to college I did not have a laptop. I purchased a desktop with my own money and sweat after two years walking almost every night to the computer center. Paper and pencil are good enough for note taking, far more reliable and not prone to electronic malfunction. I used to work projects and simulation on my computer after I bought a computer.
This was on 1987, the computer was a 8086 with two floppy drives, 512 K of RAM and a dot matrix printer. I was at the University of Puerto Rico, working in a room shared with shared with 7 other individuals without air conditioning. This computer went through hell with me and survived.
A friend of mine that studied in Boston University at the time was lucky enough to have a Toshiba computer, state of the art 286 with an orange plasma LCD. At the time, laptops were "required" by BU. So it was not really an option for him. I would not be surprised that it still is a requirement.
You do not need a lot of computing power to go through college. Unless you're doing fancy simulations or something of that ilk, you can go along without the need of too much juice.
Any child younger than high school age should be given a ball and a bat, not a computer. Although I burned a lot of time on my Atari 2600, in retrospect, I could've spent the time doing something better. Kids should be outside, playing or doing something other than sit down in front of a monitor, even less giving them an expensive laptop that will misuse. If you want your child to be computer literate, have a computer at home and let him use it with supervision and many schools nowadays have computer labs available.
In my opinion, senior year in high school would be the "coming of age" to own their own computer (assuming that the student is going to college). A laptop provides convenience to be portable and a cheap one would be good enough for anybody going through high school and college. Computers today are fast enough to handle most tasks and at the end, I do not see the justification spending more than $1,000 (or even $500) for a high school or college bound student.
My 2 cents...
Vi havas e-poston.
I'm so opposed to kids having their own machines, parents lose control if kids have their own pc or tv, especially when in their room unsupervised. Even in college, a student having their own puter helps but is not necessary, schools are so full of computer labs today that computing resources are massively available.
Where do you want to be, What are you doing to get there.
And buy our spoiled kids laptops?!? What?!?
I just finished my Bachelor of Computer Science a couple of years ago and never used a laptop until I entered the workforce. I simply did not need one, and neither did 99% of my classmates. Having thousands of desktop machines on campus, and of course one at home was plenty.
The very few students who did use laptops in class over the course of my degree (I think I can remember two instances) were just a distraction for the rest of us. And I can't imagine having spider solitaire right there, begging to be played in a boring lecture... you'd never get anything out of the class at all.
You guys are WANKERS. No wonder people fly planes into your buildings.
And the biggest windbag award goes to... This guy. For being a fuckwad.
I was in college from Fall '88 through Fall '92. Over that period of time, I lived in twelve different places (not to mention places I stayed in for a week or less). I would have loved to have a laptop, just because carrying around my XT clone and the monochrome TTL monitor (later an AT clone) was so damn heavy.
Write Only Memory: Another pointless blog.
If everyone goes along with this, we're gonna have a whole generation of sterile young men because they cooked their nuts with their laptops when they were kids ... and don't get me started on the EM radition from the WiFi.
I tried to read it, but I could find neither banner ads nor pictures. Perhaps the web server is down. Where did I put my TV remote?
Though it can be used some number of ways, most profs end doing their notes on the system, the students' systems get copies of those notes with the option to write down more stuff(the monitors in the labs are all special Wacom screens), and one of the ink colors is invisable to students, so that if it's an important item the students can still be forced to draw it if they want it, while it's still visible on the front projector(i.e. this is the closest thing to traditional note taking).
It's the best thing that's ever happened to me as a CS student, I'm surprised more Unis haven't picked it up.
Im a high school student, going to be a senior i recieved a laptop for christmas my jurnior year. Its a powerful little laptop 15.1 in screen 3.2ghz, 64mb video card, 512mb ram, etc. I personally use it as a experiment computer, since it is my PERSONAL computer and no one elses i can do what i want to it. I am currently running a duel operating system Ubunto Linux/Win Xp trying to learn the most i can. And the occasional video game here and there with friends. But the second i let someone else my age go on it the first thing they do is play video games or TRY to pull up porn. The few times i have brougt it to school to honestly work, someone wants to go on it to check their email,play games, or look at porn. Point is majiority of high schoolers from my experience think that all computers are for is email,instant messager,games, and porn. But there are the occasional odd ball like myself and a few fellow geeks who rather use out laptops or desktops to learn. So if you want to get your child a laptop and you dont know if you should. Remember, YOUR THE PARENT, YOU SHOULD KNOW THEM, USE YOUR JUDGEMENT.
My inner child, that is!
Other comments have hinted to the point that a computer doesn't always help education and ca, in fact, hinder it. Take a simple calculator. If one never needs to do the math by hand they'll never learn to and trust me, that hurts them sooner or later. With computers, the problem can simply be larger. When the kid starts arguing for a laptop (or desktop) on the basis of efficiency and time savings on tasks which they're already capable of doing without one, suggest splitting the price. Simply giving a laptop to your child could end up ruining their education instead of helping. Personally, my family didn't have any computers until I was about 8 or 10. It wasn't until I was programming and tinkering too much to keep sharing the family computer that my parents would even allow me to purchase another desktop. Now, I have one laptop and four desktops to my name but I still think that living without them was crucial to my early developement. As far as school, I'm in the top 10% of a program which is only for the top 1-5% of students so you can't say my route hurt me. I can however attribute some of my skills and methods to being forced to learn without a computer at times.
Taking the other possition, I wouldn't be were I am with my business or acedemics without computers. In fact, I was getting killed by spanish until I wrote a program tailored to my style of learning to help me out. Without computers I'd probably be unable to keep up with my current studies. Having a computer is, therefore, potentially quite helpful for learning. As you might have noticed though, my spelling is still quite poor as a result of a dependency on spell checkers (anybody else enjoy the on in gaim). Oops, time for surgery, insert a beautiful conclusion here based on evaluating the individual situation and NOT standardising when kids should be exposed to technology.
Out
-Tim Louden
You've just conceded my point. Your only apparent disagreement is one of quantity. Personally, I think that there are a large number of things that are not fun to learn no matter how they are approached. I will concede that, with most things, it is almost always possible to learn a limited amount in a fun fashion. That said, learning most skills (as one example) take a huge amount of tedious repetition that is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to make fun.
You should buy a laptop, very early provided you know how to install and maintain it under Linux. The goal is to give your child an open tool for learning, playing and creating before s/he gets brainwashed by gaming consoles, and automated pop up spam generator (also known under the the marketing name Windows based personal computer, but this is misleading since they are not really meant to compute something and certainly you do not own them so the "personal" is newspeak for interactive idiotbox).
>up working where you sleep.
Wow, just what cheapskate university is this? Most have separate desks and beds, leaving sleeping at your desk for the workplace . . .
hawk
If the kid is gonna pay for a reasonable portion of it, then yeah, it's fine. But if they just want a computer that they can do homework and stuff on, and won't pay for a reasonable part of the extra cost, then they should get a desktop.
Show this to your friends and family that don't know what a real hacker is
http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/08/10/ 1619200&tid=10
Not exactly offensive but I was not expecting it. Children can stumble onto things. Of course when you say all minors are children I think you do yourself and them a disservice.
The State of Maine has a program that
gives EVERY 7th and 8th Grader an Apple
Laptop. This started full force in
Sept 2002. So far, this has been a
success. See the State site here:
http://www.state.me.us/mlte/
My Kids will be in the 7th Grade next month
so I will know more then. In the mean time,
they've been using computers at home for
years.