The problem with that is you're talking installs, not how much is on the actual disks. Consoles run games from the disks, not from the hard drive (especially if there's not one there). Balder's Gate 1 is on two disks, so it's easily 1000 mb or more. Balder's Gate 2 is four disks. Also, those weren't even the biggest games of their time. Riven came out in 1997, and it was 5 disks long (and no, the multi-disk shuffle was not appreciated; it made the game almost unplayable). There's even some games now that have two DVDs (Star Ocean 3), and the next generation hasn't even started yet. I'm sure by the end of the next generation some developer will make a game that is 45 gigs, and I'll be really happy if I don't have to switch between 5 disks to play it.
I think the reason that dance mats, the eye toy, and bongos have been popular is because the makers have been able to bundle them in with games for $50 or $60, which is about the price of a game anyways so people who are interested in those kinds of games aren't detered by the cost. Compare that to say the PS2 harddrive + FFXI bundle, which is $100. Someone might pick up Donkey Kong Jungle for $50 on a whim, but not FFXI for $100.
Plan on? We're already in the process. We're rapidly destroying our environment in the name of short-term profit, and I really don't think that we'll stop until it's too late. Even if we do stop, eventually the earth is going to become way to overpopulated, and another planet will be very useful. We can't populate it yet, but we need to work on the technology so we can when we need to.
>>> Well back in the day, everybody and their dog wasn't going to college.
I think you misread my post. I wasn't talking about "back in the day". I'm only 24 years old, I don't remember "back in the day".
I'm sorry you had a miserable time in college, but for most people, college isn't the shittiest 4 years of your life. To cut costs (so you work less and have a full nights sleep) you need to take out more student loans, get roommates (dorms are insanely expensive compared to an apartment with roommates), postpone college a few years to save up money (I did that; everyone says its a terrible idea but sometimes its the best plan), or even (horrors!) go to a community college (my husband did this. It's not the end of the world.).
I'm not telling you what you should have done instead, i don't know nearly enough about your life to be able to tell you that. I'm just saying that parents don't have to pay for their kids to go to college, especially if it means they work so much they never see their kids.
>>> Any good parent these days know that they'll have to save up a good 40-50k for a public university.
Parents don't have to pay for college. Mine didn't, my husband's didn't, and we still went to college. And we're in our early 20's, so I'm not talking about "back in the day...". Yes, it would have been great if they could have paid for it, but if it would have meant they each worked two jobs and never saw us, then forget it. Parents need to be there to parent first. Everything else is just extra.
>>>My point is that in today's world, the management is probably telling the staff not to enforce the ratings like he did, because that will result in lost sales, so the ratings are useless.
Not in my experience. I worked at a game store for over a year, and I still have friends who work at or manage game stores, and I've never seen or heard of a manager who told employees not to enforce or inform customers about the ratings system. The managers I've seen that have parents ask if GTA is appropriate for there kids have always given honest answers, and pretty much the only reason employees sell mature games to underage kids or let parents buy mature games for them is because of laziness.
>>> Just make it the law, just like it is with videos (I assume it is the law in the US that an underage person can't go into a cinema or rent a video...).
I assume you mean that they can't go to the cinema to see a rated for adults movie, or rent a rated for adults movie. However, you're still wrong, since they aren't legally prohibited from renting or seeing adult rated movies, though most theaters and video stores won't let them as policy. It's the same with video games, though supposedly the stores aren't as good at enforcing their policies.
>>>allowing a child to view one - even accidently - carries a jail sentence
Even accidently?! That's fairly crazy. Is there an exception for the parents/guardians of the child? What country do you live in?
On my computer, Real 10 works like shit. The sound from it comes out all garbled, and if I'm playing music it won't even open. I'm running Ubuntu Linux, and as I understand, most people running Ubuntu have problems with Real, however, the movie player that comes with Ubuntu (Totem) plays windows media just fine, and as I understand, you can get quicktime to play on it too, but I haven't figured that out yet.
What's most interesting and ironic is I forsee many posts in this thread that object to the scams and support the retailers who are scammed and cheated out of their hard work and reward. However these same people will pirate (pick your favorite word) Windows XP, Adobe Photoshop, and so on, with no thought of the "large corporation". Hypocrisy runs rampant, and I'll admit I'm not immune to it, but surely it is worthy of reflection.
You're right; shoplifting and receipt scams are no worse than piracy. This article gives some really good suggestions for a newbie to retail fraud, I should take their advice. Then maybe I'ld have the money to pay for the stuff I pirate. Or, maybe I could just steal the stuff instead of pirate it then. hmmm.....
That would suck. First, not everyone has their xbox connected to the internet. Second, game consoles shouldn't need patches or updates; you get too many of those and you might as well just have a PC. Because then, just like with PC games, companies will be able to release buggy, broken games and just patch them later, and if you don't have internet, sucks to be you. Or maybe, like what sometimes happens with windows-update, you'll get a patch that completely crashes your system, and then you can't play your games until they release a patch that fixes the first patch. No thanks. I definately agree with the sibling post's concept of only playing the Atari when that happens (though I think I'ld stick to Gamecube, myself).
Bad analogy. Pens and pencils and markers and crayons do similar things but not the same thing.
If you ask for a pen, and I hand you a pencil, would you really care? Probably not. Pens and pencils both write. Cable and DSL both get you on the internet. It's an apt analogy.
While cable and DSL, like pens and pencils, are simular products, they do have a few differences. For me, getting cable would be impractical because the only cable connector in my apartment is several rooms away from my computers. Now, I could set up wifi, but I don't want to, and if I won't even do that, you can imagine that non-geeks are much less likely too. Now, that's just one of the many possible things that makes cable different from DSL, even for non-geeks. I'm sure there's plenty more reasons why non-geeks choose cable over DSL, or vice-versa.
Would it be nice to have competing cable providers or DSL providers?
Yes, considering competition is necessary for capitalism to function well.
But those cable/DSL lines are private property, paid for and owned by private companies.
Actually, I thought the government gave them the land and helped them pay to lay down the lines. Maybe I'm just silly.
Am I willing to destroy the concept of property rights just so there can be "competing" cable companies?
They do that with telepone service, cable TV, even gas and electric. This is nothing new. I don't see why we can't continue to do that with DSL.
I wish there was some sort of repository of this kind of stuff. A place which has a listing of all things in the Bible where it has off measurements and things easily provable (both right and wrong) showing just how horribly inaccurate the Good Book(tm) can be.
Doing anything solely for pleasure is abuse of the action.
Anything? Anything? What about things that don't really have a productive purpose, like video games or chocolate? Am I abusing chocolate because the only reason I eat it is solely for pleasure?
As for sex, why do I have to procreate just because I want to have sex? There's enough children in this world, why should I make more? And do infertile people abuse sex just by having it, since they can't reproduce, therefore the only purpose left is pleasure?
People who have sex and use contraception are nothing like people who abuse alcohol. People who abuse alcohol are dangerous to themselves and others, and usually are addicted and can't stop, hence the need for rehab. People who have sex without reproducing (whether because of contraception, infertility, gayness, whatever), solely for pleasure, are not dangerous to themselves and others, and can stop, when needed (unless they really do have an addiction, but I'm not talking about that). Yes, there are hazards to sex (stds, etc), but those are there whether or not the sex is for reproduction.
There are many things that people do solely for pleasure. TV, movies, music, video games, chocolate, suntanning, sex, reading magazines, cuddling, posting on slashdot, and much more. Should everyone be checked into rehab if they do something that they don't have a productive purpose for, it was just pleasurable? If so, we'ld probably send absolutely everyone, and what would be the point of that? There's a lot of pleasurable things in life, you should enjoy them.
Unlikely. We're not seeing much FMV these days.... Not saying you're wrong, but I'd be willing to bet that there won't be many (if any) games making realistic use of that many gigs of data for full motion HD video.
Two words: Final Fantasy. FFX came out not that long after the launch of the PS2, and I believe it almost completely filled the DVD. I'm sure Squeenix will find something to fill a Blu-Ray DVD with, and I doubt they'll be the only ones.
Don't get me wrong, I used Linux as a desktop for s few years and thought it was decent. But after using OS X enough and even Windows 2K I just cannot bring myself to use Linux on a desktop all the time.
You like Win2k? I hated Win2k. Even WinXP, while it's nice, I'm much happier w/ ubuntu & gnome. I guess everyone's different though.
I'm not a parent either, so it may be kinda pointless for use to debate about how to raise kids, but it's interesting, so I'll keep going.
>>>I mean, if your kid is taking cocaine, are you going to start buying them clean needles because you're afraid that they'll get some disease?
This is an interesting analogy. On the one hand, that's kind of the point of needle-exchange programs, on the other hand, those programs are (hopefully) for adults, not kids. I'm not sure what I'ld do if my potential future kids were taking cocaine. I'ld much rather my potential future children would just having sex.;)
>>>I feel the same way about teens having sex. We can't say, "Wow, you did something stupid, but here's a way to dumb down the consequences of your actions.
I guess I just don't see sex as being stupid, even for teenagers. I was a teenager when I first had sex, and I don't see that as stupid.
>>>You just have to do your best and hope the kids turn out alright after some point.
>>> If you're raped, the nightmare is just beginning.
What do you mean, "the nightmare is just beginning"? Being raped was the nightmare. Once it's over, it's over. I'm not saying it's all flowers and butterflies, but it's not death either, ok? I've known girls who've been raped, and they went on to lead normal lives. The idea that rape is worse then death is sexist and comes from a time when it was easier on society if rape victims just killed themselves. It's also an easy out for the guy if you believe that if she's not crazy or suicidal afterwards then she must not have been raped. Let go of your misconceptions.
>>> Actually, you're dead wrong. Statistics on the condom study show that accuracy was 70% not because of inconsistent use, but because most people don't use condoms correctly. The average condom user doesn't treat condoms like they should. Storing a condom in your wallet or in your purse will reduce it's effectiveness. Many people use condoms that have passed the expiration date. The 70% number shows that in real instances, condom usage isn't as accurate.
I'm sorry, I should have said that was do to inconsistant and incorrect use. I know full well that people are stupid with condoms, and proper use should be taught in sex ed classes.
>>>You bash the study I quoted on premarital sex because it's 15 years old? If the opinions on pre-marital sex have changed, that just shows that something (be it the media or lax American values) is changing children's values for the worse.
I wasn't really bashing it because of the age, it's just that the age made it impossible to find more information about it online. And if less people regret sex now, I wouldn't see that as changing values for the worse. People shouldn't have sex if they'll regret it, and if less people are having sex they regret, that's a good thing.
>>> When I was in high school, the teachers DID teach about birth control usage. I asked, "What about abstinence?" The teacher actually responded, "That's just not realistic."
I'm sorry your teacher said that. Kids (or anyone) shouldn't be pushed into having sex. When I was in school, my teacher didn't get into when we should have sex, just that we probably would (whether when we're married or not) and so sex education would be useful.
I'm sorry you had bad experiences with sex. I haven't had any experiences like that, so I really don't know what to say.
>>>I agree that kids should be taught information about birth control, but when you start handing out condoms and saying "It's not realistic to wait until marriage," you're just pushing them to have sex.
I don't think you should tell kids they can't wait until marriage, but, on the other hand, there's a lot of them who will have sex irreguardless of what you tell them. For those kids, the most responsible thing adults can do is make sure they have condoms and know how to use them. However, how do you give condoms to kids without without encouraging them to have sex? I don't think there's a good answer to that question, though I think it's better to try than just tell them not to and ignore the fact that many will have sex anyways.
Slashdot Mirror
Firefox in Linux is slightly different:
Edit > Preferences > Privacy > Cookies > "Keep Cookies:" > "Until I close FireFox"
It must suck being only able to get 13 basic channels.
My TV has three channels, PS2, Gamecube, and XBox. They have no ads, no one spying on me, and there's always something good playing.
Kameo's not a sequel.
The problem with that is you're talking installs, not how much is on the actual disks. Consoles run games from the disks, not from the hard drive (especially if there's not one there). Balder's Gate 1 is on two disks, so it's easily 1000 mb or more. Balder's Gate 2 is four disks. Also, those weren't even the biggest games of their time. Riven came out in 1997, and it was 5 disks long (and no, the multi-disk shuffle was not appreciated; it made the game almost unplayable). There's even some games now that have two DVDs (Star Ocean 3), and the next generation hasn't even started yet. I'm sure by the end of the next generation some developer will make a game that is 45 gigs, and I'll be really happy if I don't have to switch between 5 disks to play it.
I think the reason that dance mats, the eye toy, and bongos have been popular is because the makers have been able to bundle them in with games for $50 or $60, which is about the price of a game anyways so people who are interested in those kinds of games aren't detered by the cost. Compare that to say the PS2 harddrive + FFXI bundle, which is $100. Someone might pick up Donkey Kong Jungle for $50 on a whim, but not FFXI for $100.
Ok, I have to ask, even though I'm sure I'll regret it. What is tubgirl?
>>>Unless we plan of funking things up here ...
Plan on? We're already in the process. We're rapidly destroying our environment in the name of short-term profit, and I really don't think that we'll stop until it's too late. Even if we do stop, eventually the earth is going to become way to overpopulated, and another planet will be very useful. We can't populate it yet, but we need to work on the technology so we can when we need to.
>>> Well back in the day, everybody and their dog wasn't going to college.
I think you misread my post. I wasn't talking about "back in the day". I'm only 24 years old, I don't remember "back in the day".
I'm sorry you had a miserable time in college, but for most people, college isn't the shittiest 4 years of your life. To cut costs (so you work less and have a full nights sleep) you need to take out more student loans, get roommates (dorms are insanely expensive compared to an apartment with roommates), postpone college a few years to save up money (I did that; everyone says its a terrible idea but sometimes its the best plan), or even (horrors!) go to a community college (my husband did this. It's not the end of the world.).
I'm not telling you what you should have done instead, i don't know nearly enough about your life to be able to tell you that. I'm just saying that parents don't have to pay for their kids to go to college, especially if it means they work so much they never see their kids.
>>> Any good parent these days know that they'll have to save up a good 40-50k for a public university.
Parents don't have to pay for college. Mine didn't, my husband's didn't, and we still went to college. And we're in our early 20's, so I'm not talking about "back in the day...". Yes, it would have been great if they could have paid for it, but if it would have meant they each worked two jobs and never saw us, then forget it. Parents need to be there to parent first. Everything else is just extra.
>>>My point is that in today's world, the management is probably telling the staff not to enforce the ratings like he did, because that will result in lost sales, so the ratings are useless.
Not in my experience. I worked at a game store for over a year, and I still have friends who work at or manage game stores, and I've never seen or heard of a manager who told employees not to enforce or inform customers about the ratings system. The managers I've seen that have parents ask if GTA is appropriate for there kids have always given honest answers, and pretty much the only reason employees sell mature games to underage kids or let parents buy mature games for them is because of laziness.
>>> Just make it the law, just like it is with videos (I assume it is the law in the US that an underage person can't go into a cinema or rent a video...).
I assume you mean that they can't go to the cinema to see a rated for adults movie, or rent a rated for adults movie. However, you're still wrong, since they aren't legally prohibited from renting or seeing adult rated movies, though most theaters and video stores won't let them as policy. It's the same with video games, though supposedly the stores aren't as good at enforcing their policies.
>>>allowing a child to view one - even accidently - carries a jail sentence
Even accidently?! That's fairly crazy. Is there an exception for the parents/guardians of the child? What country do you live in?
But penguins are so cute!
On my computer, Real 10 works like shit. The sound from it comes out all garbled, and if I'm playing music it won't even open. I'm running Ubuntu Linux, and as I understand, most people running Ubuntu have problems with Real, however, the movie player that comes with Ubuntu (Totem) plays windows media just fine, and as I understand, you can get quicktime to play on it too, but I haven't figured that out yet.
What's most interesting and ironic is I forsee many posts in this thread that object to the scams and support the retailers who are scammed and cheated out of their hard work and reward. However these same people will pirate (pick your favorite word) Windows XP, Adobe Photoshop, and so on, with no thought of the "large corporation". Hypocrisy runs rampant, and I'll admit I'm not immune to it, but surely it is worthy of reflection.
/joke
You're right; shoplifting and receipt scams are no worse than piracy. This article gives some really good suggestions for a newbie to retail fraud, I should take their advice. Then maybe I'ld have the money to pay for the stuff I pirate. Or, maybe I could just steal the stuff instead of pirate it then. hmmm.....
That would suck. First, not everyone has their xbox connected to the internet. Second, game consoles shouldn't need patches or updates; you get too many of those and you might as well just have a PC. Because then, just like with PC games, companies will be able to release buggy, broken games and just patch them later, and if you don't have internet, sucks to be you. Or maybe, like what sometimes happens with windows-update, you'll get a patch that completely crashes your system, and then you can't play your games until they release a patch that fixes the first patch. No thanks. I definately agree with the sibling post's concept of only playing the Atari when that happens (though I think I'ld stick to Gamecube, myself).
Bad analogy. Pens and pencils and markers and crayons do similar things but not the same thing.
If you ask for a pen, and I hand you a pencil, would you really care? Probably not. Pens and pencils both write. Cable and DSL both get you on the internet. It's an apt analogy.
While cable and DSL, like pens and pencils, are simular products, they do have a few differences. For me, getting cable would be impractical because the only cable connector in my apartment is several rooms away from my computers. Now, I could set up wifi, but I don't want to, and if I won't even do that, you can imagine that non-geeks are much less likely too. Now, that's just one of the many possible things that makes cable different from DSL, even for non-geeks. I'm sure there's plenty more reasons why non-geeks choose cable over DSL, or vice-versa.
Would it be nice to have competing cable providers or DSL providers?
Yes, considering competition is necessary for capitalism to function well.
But those cable/DSL lines are private property, paid for and owned by private companies.
Actually, I thought the government gave them the land and helped them pay to lay down the lines. Maybe I'm just silly.
Am I willing to destroy the concept of property rights just so there can be "competing" cable companies?
They do that with telepone service, cable TV, even gas and electric. This is nothing new. I don't see why we can't continue to do that with DSL.
I wish there was some sort of repository of this kind of stuff. A place which has a listing of all things in the Bible where it has off measurements and things easily provable (both right and wrong) showing just how horribly inaccurate the Good Book(tm) can be.
Check this out: Rejection of Pascal's Wager.
Doing anything solely for pleasure is abuse of the action.
Anything? Anything? What about things that don't really have a productive purpose, like video games or chocolate? Am I abusing chocolate because the only reason I eat it is solely for pleasure?
As for sex, why do I have to procreate just because I want to have sex? There's enough children in this world, why should I make more? And do infertile people abuse sex just by having it, since they can't reproduce, therefore the only purpose left is pleasure?
People who have sex and use contraception are nothing like people who abuse alcohol. People who abuse alcohol are dangerous to themselves and others, and usually are addicted and can't stop, hence the need for rehab. People who have sex without reproducing (whether because of contraception, infertility, gayness, whatever), solely for pleasure, are not dangerous to themselves and others, and can stop, when needed (unless they really do have an addiction, but I'm not talking about that). Yes, there are hazards to sex (stds, etc), but those are there whether or not the sex is for reproduction.
There are many things that people do solely for pleasure. TV, movies, music, video games, chocolate, suntanning, sex, reading magazines, cuddling, posting on slashdot, and much more. Should everyone be checked into rehab if they do something that they don't have a productive purpose for, it was just pleasurable? If so, we'ld probably send absolutely everyone, and what would be the point of that? There's a lot of pleasurable things in life, you should enjoy them.
I can probably still sell the PS2 for ~$20, enough for a decent discount off the next console.
Wait, you think $20 is a decent discount off a system that will cost at least $300? At that price, why even sell it?
"Phoenix Down! Use a Phoenix Down! I've got 99 of them! This isn't even the first time Aeris has needed to be resurrected today!!!"
In FFV they tried a phoenix down on the guy that died. It didn't work, but at least I didn't have to yell at my TV.
>>>Full motion video at 1080p"
... Not saying you're wrong, but I'd be willing to bet that there won't be many (if any) games making realistic use of that many gigs of data for full motion HD video.
Unlikely. We're not seeing much FMV these days.
Two words: Final Fantasy. FFX came out not that long after the launch of the PS2, and I believe it almost completely filled the DVD. I'm sure Squeenix will find something to fill a Blu-Ray DVD with, and I doubt they'll be the only ones.
Don't get me wrong, I used Linux as a desktop for s few years and thought it was decent. But after using OS X enough and even Windows 2K I just cannot bring myself to use Linux on a desktop all the time.
You like Win2k? I hated Win2k. Even WinXP, while it's nice, I'm much happier w/ ubuntu & gnome. I guess everyone's different though.
I'm not a parent either, so it may be kinda pointless for use to debate about how to raise kids, but it's interesting, so I'll keep going.
;)
>>>I mean, if your kid is taking cocaine, are you going to start buying them clean needles because you're afraid that they'll get some disease?
This is an interesting analogy. On the one hand, that's kind of the point of needle-exchange programs, on the other hand, those programs are (hopefully) for adults, not kids. I'm not sure what I'ld do if my potential future kids were taking cocaine. I'ld much rather my potential future children would just having sex.
>>>I feel the same way about teens having sex. We can't say, "Wow, you did something stupid, but here's a way to dumb down the consequences of your actions.
I guess I just don't see sex as being stupid, even for teenagers. I was a teenager when I first had sex, and I don't see that as stupid.
>>>You just have to do your best and hope the kids turn out alright after some point.
That's pretty much how I see it too.
>>> If you're raped, the nightmare is just beginning.
What do you mean, "the nightmare is just beginning"? Being raped was the nightmare. Once it's over, it's over. I'm not saying it's all flowers and butterflies, but it's not death either, ok? I've known girls who've been raped, and they went on to lead normal lives. The idea that rape is worse then death is sexist and comes from a time when it was easier on society if rape victims just killed themselves. It's also an easy out for the guy if you believe that if she's not crazy or suicidal afterwards then she must not have been raped. Let go of your misconceptions.
>>> Actually, you're dead wrong. Statistics on the condom study show that accuracy was 70% not because of inconsistent use, but because most people don't use condoms correctly. The average condom user doesn't treat condoms like they should. Storing a condom in your wallet or in your purse will reduce it's effectiveness. Many people use condoms that have passed the expiration date. The 70% number shows that in real instances, condom usage isn't as accurate.
I'm sorry, I should have said that was do to inconsistant and incorrect use. I know full well that people are stupid with condoms, and proper use should be taught in sex ed classes.
>>>You bash the study I quoted on premarital sex because it's 15 years old? If the opinions on pre-marital sex have changed, that just shows that something (be it the media or lax American values) is changing children's values for the worse.
I wasn't really bashing it because of the age, it's just that the age made it impossible to find more information about it online. And if less people regret sex now, I wouldn't see that as changing values for the worse. People shouldn't have sex if they'll regret it, and if less people are having sex they regret, that's a good thing.
>>> When I was in high school, the teachers DID teach about birth control usage. I asked, "What about abstinence?" The teacher actually responded, "That's just not realistic."
I'm sorry your teacher said that. Kids (or anyone) shouldn't be pushed into having sex. When I was in school, my teacher didn't get into when we should have sex, just that we probably would (whether when we're married or not) and so sex education would be useful. I'm sorry you had bad experiences with sex. I haven't had any experiences like that, so I really don't know what to say.
>>>I agree that kids should be taught information about birth control, but when you start handing out condoms and saying "It's not realistic to wait until marriage," you're just pushing them to have sex.
I don't think you should tell kids they can't wait until marriage, but, on the other hand, there's a lot of them who will have sex irreguardless of what you tell them. For those kids, the most responsible thing adults can do is make sure they have condoms and know how to use them. However, how do you give condoms to kids without without encouraging them to have sex? I don't think there's a good answer to that question, though I think it's better to try than just tell them not to and ignore the fact that many will have sex anyways.