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Xbox 360 to have HD-DVD, Eventually
thebaboon writes "Bill Gates announced that the Xbox 360 will have an HD-DVD drive, just not for launch. From the article: "According
to the statements made by Bill Gates in Japan, Xbox 360, the new gaming console, will include HD-DVD drives. Considering that such a decision would postpone the launching date, Microsoft will equip the initial models with classic DVD drives, and only after the new HD-DVD are ready, the Xbox will incorporate them."
This will make fewer people buy the 1st gen, and instead wait for the 2nd gen. Nobody wants to have to pay for an entirely new console to get the HD-DVD functionality. Unless they somehow release an upgrade to the 1st gen boxes, this is REALLY dumb.
If you like what I've said here, and want to read more, go to http://www.krillrblog.com
Yay! I just paid out my rear end for this new 360, and now, a BETTER ONE is released later on. I'll just buy a new one, cause I have so much money. It's sorta like the plus pack for Windows XP, only this upgrade is worth more then half a soggy cookie.
Well if it isn't the leader of the wiener patrol, boning up on his nerd lesson...
pointless... Especially considering the cost of the enhanced version would likely be the same. And also the possibility of future games being released with enhanced versions on the HD versions.
Ahh the tax of the early adopters, we salute you Microsoft!
... there's nothing so bright as selling a console where some users have different capabilities than others.
Potential to fragment and confuse the XBox 360 market.
This sig has been deprecated.
Yep, that's brilliant. Completely screw all the die-hards that buy early or pre-order machines, so they don't get a feature that'll be a major selling point a while down the road. Sounds like the wrong way to market a console to me.
My own pointless vanity vintage computing page
Way to go Microsoft. Screw over everyone who buys your console at launch. Fools.
Who would buy an early XBOX 360 in this case? Assuming you just have to be first, doesn't this also raise problems regarding compatibility? As soon as consoles become anything less than completely standardized (except for addons), their main advantage over computers goes, since it becomes harder and harder to guarantee compatibility. Not to mention that, as far as I've seen, there is no way to upgrade parts (such as a video card) in any console. I really wonder what MS was thinking with this one...
Seems to me like this would cause a ton of confusion when HD-DVD games start showing up and early adopters try to run them...
Ok, we all know this is a bad idea (really bad). Anyone have an idea why it would be good? What the hell are they thinking? They're destroying their own launch before it gets to the pad. They must have hired NASA as marketing consultant on this one.
Then why buy one initially, unless you can't wait a few months?
Unless they have some sort of free "upgrade" offer...
n/t
64DD, anyone?
My sister opened a computer store in Hawaii. She sells C shells by the seashore.
1) Release 360 for Holiday Season
2) ?
3) Profit!
4) RE-Release 360 Later with HD-DVD
5) MORE Profit!
All the more reason I WON'T be getting a 360 till about a year after release. Heck, I didn't get an X-Box till about 7 months ago.
I wonder if Microsoft will make the drives swapable. That way, when the drives change, it'll be easier to cope with for the average gamer. Hope for the best?
Being funny is my sig nature.
...Foot, Gun, Shoot!
sega cd?
That I smell a dupe.
If you're lucky the PS3 will have better games. We'll be looking at a lot more computer gaming if the PS3 bombs.
"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World"
1 John 4:14
Loss of initial sales means fewer number on the market. The fewer on the market means that developers have less reason to make games for that consol, and with less games it will mean fewer buyers.
A similar occurance with the DreamCast. Fewer people bought it and was waiting for the "vastly more powerful" PS2. Now Sega no longer makes a console thanks to the above cycle.
Is there anything better than clicking through Microsoft ads on Slashdot?
HD DVD is not necessary for some awesome games, as you will see however - games will be release with 20 odd cds and we will have to change the cd every 2 minutes... So much for Mr Gates' "No Loading" future...
Apart from the aforementioned problem of getting less product for being a 1st gen user, it also brings with it a (possible) delay in the price drop.
Maybe they will, they probably won't. I remember the rumours about Dreamcast and it's supposed DVD drive. Even after it came out people were speculating about a possible upgrade to DVD. Remember how the PS2 HD, which wasn't packaged in, took off like a fucking rocket? Yeah, this'll be just like that except even better.
Sleep is futile.
I won't be buying one for quite a while anyhow.
I will however be buying up on cheap 2nd hand Xboxes for XBMC purposes. One in every room is my aim.
While Japan is real big on the "console that does everything" in a large part because apartments tend to be small, that's not such an issue in the states. People will be willing to have a device for palying games, and a device for playing DVDs, and so on. Everyone I know that owns one or more game consoles also owns a seperate DVD player, though the new consoles could do that, if they wanted it to.
An upgrade is certianly an option too, bring your box to an authorized dealer, they upgrade it, maybe for free, maybe for a small charge.
However I suspect it won't really matter, the HD-DVD feature will be cool for those that want to use it as their player, but I don't think it'll matter for games. You have to remember that a regular DVD will hold 16GB of data in the case of DSDL, and 8GB for DL. That's plenty for the forseeable future of games. Currently the largest game I've seen is Everquest 2 and it spans about 10 CD, so 7GB at most. It's also an anomoly at the high end, most fit in under 4GB. It's just hard to generate that much data for a game. You can only develop so much content on a reasonable budget.
I think any disadvantage of having peopel wait will be compensated by being first to market.
I'm not sure if this will matter much until movies start hitting mainsteam on HD-DVD. Then I could see some confusion, especially by little Johnny's parents when they buy the latest HD-DVD movie for him under the assumption the Xbox could play them, then only to realize they have to do something special to play them. Meanwhile, they also have a PS3 and a Blu-ray version of the same movie is out and they don't need anything extra.
There will be no HD-DVD games.
Sounds like Bill is doing an Osborne (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_effect)
Does this mean that the second version of the XBOX 360 will have hdmi output like the Playstation 3 does? I heard it will have a component cable included at launch, but there's no way anyone is allowing hd-dvd movies to play at full resolution over analog.
Eventually.
I think MS may be hedging their bets on this one. There's still a ton of talk going on about which format to go with as the standard (HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray vs. some hybrid version). By holding off a bit, they still get to market ahead of Sony and depending on when/if a format is chosen, they can put out a drive that is supported by the 360 with a simple software update. If they put in an HD-DVD drive now, they're stuck with it (and possible a dead format).
Comment removed based on user account deletion
MS can mandidate that all games be released on DVDs, not HD-DVDs. Remember that console manufacturers maintain basically complete control over the distribution. all games have to be licensed to run on the consoles. Back in the NES days a couple non-approved carts were released that figured out a way around the protection. These days it won't work on a non-hacked console, never mind the huge lawsuit. So, regardless of the console you publish for, you have to play by the rules of the console maker.
That's why consoles are available for such knock down rates. Initally, companies take a loss on their hardware sales, and even later they usually make little to nothing. However, they recieve royalties for every game sold, regardless of if they made it, since that's a part of the license.
So, MS could simply state that no games will be released on HD-DVD. You'd either do that, or you'd not get licensed and not be able to sell your game. I doubt you'd see much bitching as a DVD has more than enough space for just about any game for today's technology. It just wouldn't be economical to make a game that had so much content it was larger than a DVD.
The only way I can see needing HD-DVD for games is if full motion video in games makes a comeback, and they want to do it in HD. However FMV has been really out of style except for little things like intros and so on, and there's no indication it'll be back. Game makers are now prefering to just have the game engine handle things like cut scenes, it's cheaper, and then there's not the problem of it looking different in cut scenes and in play. Plus, graphics accelerators are getting powerful to the point of producing graphics that look as good as most pre-rendered cutscenes.
I think some of you are over reacting over the news that future XBox360's will incorporate a HD-DVD. Considering that 99% of game barely use the space on a single DVD (I'm not sure if any use dual layer DVDs). It's likely that XBox 360 games will only come out on DVD. I suspect that there will be two different SKUs for the XBox 360, one with the DVD drive and the other with HD-DVD. And the HD-DVD one will cost more for those who want it.
...even turned up a profit for Microsuffer? Last time i checked, what they spent on advertising was more than income, but i could be wrong.
If that is true, this stunt might cost them in jobs, the market and costumer trust in a hypothetical xbox3 release.
WTF was BillG thinking?
:)
Obviously he wasn't.
If Halo 3 is a launch title, then that will help the sales of the 360, however I'm not sure that it would be enough to get me to invest in a system that will be obsolete in a year.
I can't wait to see what Penny Arcade says about it. You know they will
There is nothing inherently safe about liberty. That's why so many people died protecting it.
at first i was shocked. then i realized that i probably won't own a really nice hdtv for 4-5 years. i'm pretty sure i will be able to afford the upgrade or the next gen console by that point, so this isn't that big of a deal. it's just MS trying to not be outdone by sony.
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Wha! Slashdot did it again. http://news.softpedia.com/news/The-Microsoft-Toshi ba-HD-DVD-Alliance-Changes-Xbox-360-3902.shtml
This article was posted on 28th of June 2005, 16:45 GMT ... juNE juNE juNE.
On a 2nd note ... softpedia is wrong too.
Bill Gates said it (over 1 month ago):
``The initial shipments of Xbox 360 will be based on today's DVD format,'' Gates said. ``We are looking at whether future versions of Xbox will incorporate an additional capability of an HD DVD player or something else.''
It's not confirmed what-so-ever!
see:
http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/8591/Xbox-360-Might- Incorporate-HD-DVD-Drive/
or
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000101&si d=aIoj6W6mNl_M&refer=japan
I can either buy one at launch at full price OR wait a few months till the price has dropped and HD-DVD is standard . HMMMM pay more get less or wait and pay less and get more . I think I'll wait . BTW dumb move on the part of Microcrap I picked up my xbox on the first day of launch . I would have done the same with the 360 . NOW a smart way out of this would be free upgrades to people with the non-HD-DVD drives . Just have a UPS label in the box and a form to fill out . Then you just put the xbox back in the carton annd drop it off at ups when HD-DVD is ready . Sure it'll cost more BUT it won't punish diehard xboxers .
If, on the other hand, they don't release titles on HD-DVD, then the people who pay extra for the later models that come with hd-dvd are going to be wondering why they paid extra for a pink-elephant hardware 'feature'.
Sometimes boldness is in fashion. Sometimes only the brave will be bold.
OK, this is just getting silly. This article is just a month old rumor article. It's been floating around every console discussion forum for a month and keeps getting brought up as some Xbox fanboy finds it in hopes of being able to say "psssh, $ony may have their crappy blu-ray, but WE have the HD-DVD!! RoXXozrs!! ".
The reality? The Xbox 360 GPU lacks a TMDS, as such, it can NOT produce a digital output signal. This in turn means that the XBox 360 can't make use of HDMI, which Toshiba will only support.
As such in order for this to occur ATi would have o redesign their GPU. So there's no way to keep a partition from happening in the user base, meaning it can't be used for gaming and is going to end up EXACTLY like the PSX. Nothing great MOVE ON.
P.S. Sorry, if I over-reacted, but I've probably literally seen this article 20-30 times over the month.
Lets just wait and see what happens and how much an updgrade will be. Most people won't care. Most people don't even have HD tvs or DVDs. I surely won't be buying any HD DVDs to replace my current ones and I won't buy an new ones until I see which way the markey is going with a standard. People will buy the XBox when it comes out and if they really feel the need to upgrade their DVD unit they will pay for it.
I've written this before, but there are a million ways to fill a HD-DVD. You could, for example, render out a version of all of your textures with time-of-day effects, and swap between them mid-game. You could add modifiers to all of your audio streams to get audio for various locations. You could pregen background or in-game assets, like applying a movie to a wall texture to make it appear that it has more depth than it does. You could pregenerate a thousand different havok crash animations, and randomly select between them. You can use a slow algorithm to populate a forest, make a few large-scale, adjustments, and save out the results as a sectionally loaded world the size of montana.
When the transition was made between CD and DVD games, it was said that a DVD would never be filled. Well, they're filled. And BTW, nobody would accept a Dual-Sided DVD. Do you know how annoying it would be to be told every few minutes to flip your disk over?
The question, really, is will anyone release games on HD-DVD instead of DVD? I'm betting so, as there will be blue-ray games getting ported from the PS3. And when that happens, whoever bought the DVD version of the Xbox will be screwed out of playing the lastest Final Fantasy, or Gran Turismo 5, or Fable 2.
As a HD-DVD player I could care less. But as a game console that is supposed to play HD-DVD games, this will anger a lot of suddenly ex-customers.
The ______ Agenda
I really don't see the problem. MS isn't going to bundle a next gen drive, for cost reasons. I can see them making 2 versions of 360, one at the standard price with a DVD drive, and another at a higher price offering HD DVD *Movie* functionality. If they throw in this expensive new drive down the road, they won't be able to drop the price on the system when the PS3 launches.
My bets are on a two tier system. 'Course, from a marketing stand point, they shouldn't say stuff like this until after the system launches. Announcing it now was a bad idea.
This Gates guy seems to be the "Chief Software Architect" at Microsoft so why is he making announcements about a hardware product? I understand that he's also the chairman but this doesn't seem to have much to do with the expected duties of that position either. I really wonder exactly how that company is run. Shouldn't this announcement have come in the form of Steve Balmer jumping around and screaming "HD-DVD! HD-DVD! HD-DVD!"?
Same with DVD-player-companies saying "You can only release DVDs that will work in our players if you are given a license from us."
DVD technology is patented. It already needs a license.
Really, this isn't hard to understand.
but in my mind this almost ensures that Blueray (ps3?) is going to be the 'real' HD dvd standard. This doesn't seem like a lack of available tech issue (I mean, comeon - they are custom building everything else in the box - how is designing a HD DVD reader any different if they have a known spec?). It looks like MS lacks confidence in the disc format and is consequentially playing it safe.
This is probably the biggest mistake they could have made. I'm in game development as a software engineer and I work on consoles. I can, without thinking about it too much, can think of two ramifications to make this a very bad call.
1) We choose consoles because we know what hardware will be in them. We know what we can do, and we know what we cant do because the hardware is always the same. Sure it shrinks, but if we want to go outside the bounds of what the API's provided can do we can do it because we can count on the hardware being the same.
1) We (ok, not engineers, but people who make decisions) decide to develop our games for the lest common denominator. Meaning, because all these consoles with regular DVD drives will be on the market we wont be making HD-DVD games. Probably ever. If we were to choose to make a game for release on HD-DVD we know that we would alienate a large section of our market. So the call will be made to make the game fit on a single DVD. And we can probably rule out dual DVD games for the majority of video game releases as well. Because who wants to pay the extra cost of manufacturing?
Not that you'll be reading this or not, but, bad call Bill. Bad call.
--Pete
What's a sig? Pete Brubaker
What is it with these corporate heads these days? Do they have so much hubris that they don't care about "the Osborne effect" anymore? First it was Jobs with the Macintosh platform Intel switcher-roo, and now its Gates with this announcement. Doing this never works out in the game industry. Its like driving nails into the coffin. People have already cited the Dreamcast/DVD fiasco, so I won't spend extra space addressing that.
At this point, Microsoft should delay the console's debut until HD-DVD is ready. Why? Because there will be plenty of gamers that will hold out until the *true* system is released because they'd rather not get burned/ripped-off. This staggered release will only ensure that the only gamers in large numbers getting ahold of the Xbox360 this year will be the ones that win them from the Mountain Dew promo. Hell, Microsoft should delay the release of the Xbox360 until Halo3 is ready. They maximize their marketing dollars that way too.
And since it would be wise to delay the release, Microsoft should jump in the Blu-Ray camp because Blu-Ray is superior to HD-DVD and the consumers will know this by next year. Its not like Microsoft would have to buy the drives directly from Sony either. Microsoft could buy the drives from Matsushita or any of the other manufacturers supporting the platform.
"Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*
Releasing the XBox without HD-DVD will permit the delivery of the games and consoles many many months before the delivery of the PS3 . And the lack of HD-DVD will negatively impact very few users - please recall that few world-wide households have HDTV - less than 1%! And about zero percent have HD-DVD discs.
Microsoft is playing second fiddle now, and it's XBox division WILL die if it doesn't improve its very disappointing numbers. Microsoft requires the advantage of delivering significantly before Sony. If it means that HD-DVD comes in as an upgrade, so be it.
Will some people want HD-DVD? Yes. But those people who can actually use the technology are in the very very distant minority.
You buy a console primarily to play games. Anyone who really cares about HD-DVD probably already has an HD-DVD player. As long as they don't release future games on HD-DVD, limiting the library of the first generation machine, what's the big deal?
From what I understand HD-DVD is inferior to Blu-Ray (albeit my limited understanding). So I guess it makes sense that MS is going to be adopting HD-DVD.
No doubt that HD-DVD will win the media war now that MS "picked a side." How unfortunate.
The HDDs are removable/replacable. The DVD drive probably is too.
It's probably not a case of "buy a whole new xbox", rather "buy a new drive when the price is down under 50 bucks".
BFD, it'll be years before you see console games that need 30 gigs of storage.
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
That makes me so happy. I thought there was going to be a format war with hd-dvd and BR but now its already won. go PS3!
There's really no reason to think HD DVD would be used for games and make first gen consoles undesirable, especially since most games will fit in under 3 gigs. Also, I don't know about about HD-DVD but Bluray will be much slower than DVD, at least when it first comes out. Not very good for gaming. This is why Xbox360 is going with DVDs for games and not some new unproven technology.
Microsoft announced today that the XBox 360 will feature graphics that will rival Sony and Nintendo, but have postponed including the CPU and GPU that would allow this, as it would severely postpone the launch date. Instead of postponing the launch date, Microsoft will incorporate the said processors once they are ready.
What do they mean by once they are ready, Microsoft, or the CPU and GPU?
Does anyone else think MS might be trying to use Xbox 360 to try to get WMV accepted over H.264 as the standard HD-DVD codec?
nig nig nig.
Anyone can say anything they want to, doesn't make it true. Care to back up your statement with an authoritative link? I don't know why you even bother saying this once, much less three times.
I like cheese.
A number of people have already commented that this is a dumb marketing move - announcing "a better product coming out Real Soon now" - because at least some purchasers will wait rather than buy the first generation and get an inferior product.
This marketing mistake has a name; The Osborne Effect. Apparently an urban legend but never the less a good one, it describes how a similar announcement crippled Osborne Computers in the 1980s. Nice to know that even 20 years later, Microsoft is still copying ideas from competitors <g>.
nignignig.
Given the first-gen 360's will have no HD-DVD support, this could be a major stumbling block toward the adoption of the HD-DVD format. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this contrasts with the PS3 which requires the games to be stored on Blu-Ray discs. It seems that most Slashdotters have a preference to Blu-Ray to begin with, so this could be a foreboding of Blu-Ray's eventual dominance.
Illegal? Samir, This is America.
Im sure many games are close to filling a DVD, once when I had my Grand Theft Auto San Andrea ps2 disc in my computer, it showed up as using something like 7GB, sorry I cant be specific on exact usage. This is surely dual layer. I hear xbox discs have around 6GB of storage, so all xbox discs must be dual layer?
---
seriously, this probaly won't be such a big deal as some of you think. all xbox 360 games will probably be on the standard DVDs for maximum compatibility. the HD-DVD capability in the xbox 360 is probably just to support the new video standard for playing movies.
"We're not going to have it at launch, but we will eventually. Really! I promise."
For more info see: Most of Visthorn's expected "features", which have now been cut.
Is it real, or just a way to drive up hype without doing any actual engineering?
Le français vous intéresse?
Can you buy HD-DVDs in the stores right now? No? What's the fuss about. Right now there isn't even much beyond a few proposed standards that hollywood has not even begun to think about supporting yet. DVDs are so common now, why would it make sense to move beyond the format and gamble on something that may or may not be the next betamax? Hopefully a DVD drive will lower the 360 costs and also allow M$ to make a preemptive strike. I honesty don't think that many games need more than a DVD of data and in the odd event that they do, they can always include multiple or dual layer disks. I mean really, why is this such a big deal? The developers will support whatever hardware is launched and addons and peripherals will always get the shaft in terms of development asides from essentials, such as networking, voice, etc. I doubt you will see many HD-DVD only disks. You guys are all starting to sound like XBox fanboys too, which is kind of sad in a lot of ways. Though, I gotta admit, it would be pretty damned sweet to see an american company finally win the race for a brief moment in their own country for once.
(Secretly, I still hope that nintendo one day gets back on top, but I guess the golden days are long gone)
zosxavius photography
Uh, yeah, sure. I hang on his every word. He's always been such a reliable indicator of what Microsoft was about to do.
Reasonable people will wait and evaluate what actually shows up in stores (and WHEN that happens). MS burned its creds years ago.
they'll just include both versions for the few games that'll actually use 30+ gigs. A dual layer dvd is 9 gigs after all, 3 or 4 extra 20 cent dvds aren't that big a deal, kinda like the good old days when games came on 3 1/2 and 5 1/4 floppies.
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I suspect this is vaporware, um........classic Microsoft. It won't happen....
Hey Bill, Its puff puff give, not puff puff put in some crack.
Isn't the whole point of a video game console to have standardized hardware?
Otherwise if the parts are continually different and developers need to consider that, isn't it no different from a PC?
-M
when you see the word 'Linux', drink!
You know you're getting old when your DVD drive is a classic...
anyone would want a PS3. I moved in with someone who had a Gamecube & Xbox, I asked them why they didn't have a ps2 he replied "I hate the ps2". I was kind of taken aback by the strong statement, usually hate is reserved for a person, or next harry potter book. But after spending time with the Xbox, I could never go back. The load times were faster, and the games were at least as good, if not better same with graphics. I Know backwards compatibility, etc etc, but seriously why own something so inferior? Just for full disclosure, I own neither, and am not a big gamer.
With the PS3 likely shipping with Blu-Ray, does this even matter anymore?
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
Microsoft. HD-DVD.
Sony. Blu-Ray. Sony has an absolutely huge customer base of eclectronic equipment and artists (music, and more importantly in this case, video). Who wins and why doesn't Microsoft want to adopt the better of the two?
Reply... and thanks.
"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel Boorstin
all they have to do is make gen 1 "hackable"... unintentionally of course, and suddenly they are flying off the shelves, since gen 2 won't be. hell, they will be worth more than gen 2 simply for their region free, or ability to play hacked games.
Surely you announce vapourware to damage the competitions sales, not your own.
There again he is the worlds richest man, or maybe he just don't care.
threadeds blog
i know this is incredibly off topic, but for some reason or other i cant submit a story, but i can comment, anywaym if someone out there cares goto http://www.planetannihilation.com/Planet Annihilation and submit the story of the TA sequal... and just to add a comment on the hd dvd, will sony have the blue-ray format in the ps3?
Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job. - HHGTTG
Hardly. It'll make a difference sure, but think about what the bulk of space on game discs is. It's sound files and video clips. That's not going to make a huge impact on these games. It's telling that DVD drives have been common on PC's for a while now and there's really not much in games that's taking advatange of it. It's just a nice way to consolidate 3 or 4 cd's.
This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
In the history of consoles, updating a console's specs has never worked. Not once. Especially new drives have always failed, because they effectively decreased the size of the targed audience for games using these drives. The NES disc system was never released outside of Japan. The Sega CD and SNES CD drives failed. The Jaguar CD drive failed. I think the Turbo Grafx16 CD Addon was moderately successfull, but then, that console never caught on anyway.
Pretty much the only console peripherals that actually have a chance of becoming successfull are new input devices (such as dance mats, microphones or music instruments) and memory enhancements (memory cards, larger hard disks).
But updating the actual storage system the game comes not only won't work, it will actually hurt the console. It will alienate developers who don't want to look outdated by using the older storage system, but also don't want to invest more money to create a game for the new storage system which then won't sell because most people don't own a device to play it. Consumers don't want to buy a console which has an outdated drive inside, but they also don't want to pay more for the new drive as long as there are no games using it.
This would be a very stupid move. You can't treat a console like commodity PC and just update stuff, changing the capabilities.
To quote Obi-Wan; I've got a bad feeling about this.
In Soviet Russia, backwards is everything.
You can add the HDD and ethernet expansions to any PS2. It's like requiring gnucon or a driving wheel for speciality games. It's been done since the NES. Welcome to 1985!
I wonder if Microsoft will install Linspire on their system too.
"The Chinese use two brush strokes to write the word 'crisis.' One stands for danger; the other for opportunity
At the time the Xbox 360 releases, there really won't even BE an HD-DVD standard. People that are truly vested in such a standard are NOT going to be swayed by a stupid gaming console. The standards war for this will be won by people buying high end, bleeding edge HD-DVD PLAYERS. Not consoles. If MS were to release whatever the current (wrong) format was at the time of the XBox 360 release, it'd be irrelevant inside of 3 months. Sure, it'd be NICE, if your cheap ass little XBox could play the latest, greatest HD movies, but that's not likely, considering the different time-scales of the console and REAL player releases.
Let's see... what will we use HD-DVD for... Oh yeah.. Movies!
So if you want to watch movies in HD at no extra cost when buying a new Xbox 360 do it. If you already have an Xbox 360 and want to watch HD-DVDs, Buy an HD-DVD player! Everyone wins!
It wasn't that we said we would never fill CDs. we just didn't see it being an issue for a while. As I see it games have really leveled off in size, we saw a pretty exponential growth when the CD came out just because we weren't using ASCII anymore, and we could you know... include real music and stuff. But at this point, I don't see us needing more than 10GB for a game in 3 years. 3 years ago games were on 2 CDs, now they're on 6 at the most. Most games now adays are still around 1.5 gigs, I don't see us all of a sudden needing 10. Not to mention, we can always release 2 DVD games!
This isn't a feature split, this is a free perk later down the road.
Just to clarify, for those who cant multiply..
720p = 1280x720 = 921600 pixels
XGA = 1024x768 = 786432 pixels
The numbers speak for themselves..
720p is 135168 pels higher than XGA
----- Concentrate on promoting more than demoting.
[coughs] Rushed to market [/coughs]
In the hopes that the 'pre-announcement' would dry up competition's income stream and force them to abandon the playing field (go broke) before he was (practically garanteed since EVERY PC was coming out with Windows, whether they wanted to on not.)
Anybody remember 1995? Just before the Web? MDI? OLE? A whole lot of acronyms?
Mostly crap that was vapour-ware, empty promises made to dry up people's markets.
Microsoft played dirty back then, and it still playing dirty now. He's still able to leverage off of his cash cow.
Gates doesn't care that it will cost him a sale, he can pick it up again 'eventually' as long as he can cost you a sale and you've gone broke waiting for em. (Still waiting for Duke Nukem, like, Forever dude?)
As for delivering on the vapour ware? What are you, nuts? You might as well ask for directions to Cairo.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
They could just call the entry level one the XBOX Starter Edition
It has been four miserable years having to listen to the diehard MS freaks and "Sony killed the Dreamcast with teh hype" losers that make up the bulk of the xbox userbase.
And now the console world is looking at another four to five years of another fucked up/piece of shit console? Gee thanks MS!
So over the next few years every console forum is going to have to endure an endless stream of MS damage control posts about 'why HD media isn't important' just like this time around we had to listen to the endless 'why the xbox isn't really a failure' posts.
Spare us!!!
The main concern here is, what will happen to the intial adopters of Xbox 360 when the HD-DVD versions come out and games no longer appear on standard DVD's? If the games don't get published on HD-DVD only then what's the point in introducing the format? This is a very bad idea IMO. They should have gotten this cleared up atleast 6 months ago. They are heading for an iceberg and can't seem to stop it. Better fork out some millions to set this ship back on course Bill.
If you know you'll get HD-DVD for the same price if you just wait, and you know that there will be games that need HD-DVD, seems like the smart thing to do will be to wait a while.
Microsoft needs to come up with some kind of coupon or rebate deal or otherwise give the early adopters a way to upgrade.
I can imagine a lot of people who pre-ordered will be annoyed at this, since I imagine they'll be locked into the first-gen models.
I think everyone is being a little overly critical here. I don't think HD-DVD is a make or break feature. I can't imagine its more important than a hard drive and PS3 won't have a hard drive at launch, but nobody seems to care. The first xbox didn't ship with DVD playback at a time when DVD video was much more available than HD-DVD will be available when this xbox launches. I don't think that hurt the first xbox.
if the universe actually worked that way it might be nice, but the universe just does not bow to one man's logic.
I misread the headline and at first glance, I saw: "IBM 360 to have HD-DVD, Eventually". My brain was churning around the possibilities and consequences of attaching such high density storage to such an ancient computer when I read the headline again and saw my error.
[no comment needed]
You aren't making any sense at all. No modern game requires more than the 8GB of space that a dual-layer DVD can provide. Few console games even need more than the 1.5GB provided by Gamecube's discs.
You're right, when the new systems come out, people are just going to keep making games as if they're for the PS2 and Gamecube. Get real! Not only will 8GB easily be surpassed when filling things up with HD resolution textures, but full-motion 1080p video and surround sound audio is going to take up a lot of space as well. Higher-detailed models, bigger levels, full recorded dialogue for all characters in the game (in multiple languages!), and so on.
I played PC games from the 90s that took five CDs...multiply five by 700MB and see what you come up with, and realize that was for old DOS games that were running in max 640x480 resolution with stereo sound! There are a few PS2 games today that are already pushing three or four CDs.
I can't believe anyone would be so stupid as to date their own statement. "8GB outta be enough for anybody." Two years from now when games are minimum 25GB, you're going to feel pretty silly. Geez, Half-Life 2 today is already pushing its DVD space!
Microsoft has a console under production.
Crippled to get sold by the end of the year. It's the Sega Dreamcast all over again. Everyone will wait for the PS3 to come out a few months later.
There's a reason X-Box has a pitiful 15% of the market.
Who do I believe, an X-Box ("PC-In-A-Box") fanboy, or a prominent Japanese developer?
*cough*vapourware*cough* Suuuuure... console manufactures have such an awesome record of bringing promised console hardware addons to life... right? ... RIGHT?
Erm... no. Promised hard drives, modems and other hardware promises from the console manufactures have been by and large empty.
If it doesn't come with the console at purchase, don't bank on being able to ever actually see the "promised hardware".
This way Nintendo won't have a game console that will have a failed video format on it! I think M$ just gave the HD-DVD the win here since it will be the PS2 of this gameing generation.
Bill Gates never said what is purported in the article. Ars Technica has a real explanantion of what this story is, which is old news inflamed by anti-Microsoft bias.
A little while ago it was announced that HD-DVDs would not play ful resolution over anything other than HDCP protected outputs, even Component outputs would downrez to 480p. As far as I know, the Xbox360 wasn't going to support HDMI or DVI-HDCP. Either the HD-DVD people were lying, the Xbox360 (when it gets the upgraded drive) will only play HD-DVDs at 480p, or Microsoft is adding HDMI to the Xbox360 spec. Anyone have any insight?
Nothing from nowhere I'm no one at all
Then there was the SegaCD and the 32x. Sega felt that CD technology was mature enough for use. Let's add it on to the machine! Nintendo even considered the same thing and dropped it like a hot potato (now we have the PlayStation). And let's not forget the Nintendo64's RAM expansion, which I think only one or two games required to work, a handful supported, and the rest ignored. I'll be the only reason those things moved was because the Nintendo zealots had to have Majora's Mask. Check out any non-Zelda fan who owned the '64, see if they have the RAM expansion.
Sony said that the hard disk and network adapter would be an add-on for the PlayStation 2. The Network Adapter has seen some pretty good action (far from the stelar action we've seen with the XBox). But the hard disk is pretty much a flop. The only game to support it is Final Fantasy XI, and 90% of the features Sony promised us (the ability to store/play/view MP3's/videos/photos) never materialized. The only other peripheral to do worse in the current generation of gaming was the GameCube Network Adapter. I know of only two games that support it (Phantasy Star Online Ver. 1 and 2 and Mario Kart Double Dash, though MKDD doesn't have online support, last I checked), and I would be damned if I could find one to save my life.
I think that MS will either reverse itself on the decision and end up throwing in HD-DVD on the XBox 360, or they'll just drop HD-DVD all together. Because let's face it, add-ons like this usually cost way more than people are willing to put into their gaming console, and therefore they tend to do poorly.
Rawr
Xbox fanboy says:
We don't care about backwards compatability. We don't have any game that were any good we want to play on the Xbox anyway. Wait no we do care about Xbox backwards compatability and the Dreamcast 360 will have just as good as Sony and Nintendo, sort of. Maybe...
We don't care about graphics power. The Dreamcast 360 will be 'plenty powerful' and the Dreamcast 360 will 'about the same' as the PS3...
We don't care about HD media. No wait we do and we age going to have it. Wait, maybe...
Gotta hand it to the Xbox/Dreamcast fanboys, they have the latest MS damage control talking points down.
Everyone here is missing the point. The big battle is between Blue Ray and HD-DVD. MS seems to be choosing HD-DVD, which is opposite Sony's Blue Ray. I guess few of you know that DVD came out about five years after its conception. Those years were brought about fighting between standards. I was hoping Sony would win, but now MS has gone AGAINST Sony.
Nintendo has decided that their next-generation "Revolution" console will not support HD resolutions, sticking with tried-and-true 480i/480p. Their reasoning is a bit different... they feel that HD adoption is not currently sufficient to justify the added expense of supporting the 720/1080 resolutions.
They have a point: while a fairly good video board can drive complex 480p graphics at a consistent 60 fps, it takes a much pricier board to deliver the quality gamers demand at 720/1080 without dropping to 30 fps, or below. I envision that, in 2-3 years' time, should HD sweep the nation, Nintendo could conceivably release an upgraded Revolution with HD support. What I don't know is whether or not those high-end consumers will be willing to spend the dough. A trade-in deal might help smooth such a transition.
At any rate, this seems to be Microsoft's plan, regarding disc media type. If it works for them, it will likely work for Nintendo, especially since the gamer's initial investment is bound to be much lower with the Revolution that with the XBox 360.
I assume it is double layer though.
And by the time the HD-DVD version of Xbox 360 will be released, the PS3, which is scheduled to be released after the Xbox 360, will be available and MS will have to face Sony head-to-head instead of with the head-start they could have had if they supplied the Xbox 360 with HD-DVD from the start. ;)
This is REALLY, REALLY dumb!
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So if PS3 comes out with a Blu-Ray HD DVD then who's not thinking ahead and/or being foolish?
I'm also curious how many of you use your current console to play DVDs.
I'm still waiting for all those massively multiplayer online games that were promised on Xbox Live.
For most people I know, the Xbox was essentially a "Halo Box", and the amount of "Downloadable content" has been pathetically scarce.
I've yet to see a game "patch" itself using Xbox Live (something else that was promised). Hell, I actually went out and bought the re-release of Morrowind to play the bug-free version.
And now MSFT is coming out with the 360 and promises of what's coming down the pike?
Fool me twice, shame on me.
I've never owned a playstation, but I'll be getting the PS3 and buying a linux modchip for my Xbox at the same time.
------ The best brain training is now totally free : )
Basically, again, the internet got this story wrong. To me, this is a non-story. These comments in the article were actually made by Bill Gates at a Toshiba hosted HD-DVD conference in Japan at the end of June. Not over the weekend, June. Gates' speech was widely published and commented on previously, so I have no idea why 2 months later it becomes "news" again.
...if an HD-DVD rom is added to be used with games at any point in the systems lifecycle it would break compatiblity with the system. I'd hope Microsoft isn't dumb enough to do that. So realistically, the only upside to adding an HD-DVD player to the Xbox 360 would be to play HD-DVD movies. But if the Xbox 360 is the run away hit Microsoft is hoping for, there isn't going to be a need to add next-gen video disc support right away.
:)
What's more, he didn't say Xbox360 would include HD-DVD. What he said was:
"We are looking at whether future versions of Xbox 360 will incorporate an additional capacity of an HD-DVD player or something else."
"Or something else". This might be reading into it too much but...
Adding hd-dvd/blu-ray support would a move strictly for the movie watchers, not for the developers or gamers. That said, it would only make sense for Microsoft to sit out the ensuing format war for a little bit, wait till the price of the hardware itself comes down, then to go with the winning next-gen video format.
As of this past weekend, with Fox choosing Blu-Ray, major movie studios are split 6 and 6 between the formats. It's tough to pick a winner, but with the PS3 Blu-Ray is going to get the first mass market penetration and um, Blu-Ray is the only format to have Star Wars & Justice League HD... so that matters to me anyways.
http://www.gamegeeknews.com/?p=8 --- Original post on the subject.
Hehe... sorry to troll a bit but...
I think MS have found a great word 'Eventually' as in Windows Vista will 'Eventually' have WinFS and the other technologies... XBox wil 'Eventually' have HD-DVD... IE7 will 'Eventually' be secure... Windows will 'Eventually' be robust.
This is what I call a culture of Vapor[Hard/Soft]ware
Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'