Of course there is someone who needs it: The investor(s). And the less people it serves, the better is it – because that means more profit for every one of them.
Look: This is Capitalism. So, what do you think pharma industry is good for? Making pharma products or making (more profit from) capital?
but don't think twice.
the author of the blog wants to make big news with the idea that Linux gives you a lot of fun? Hm... that's what it all about since the beginning... as the title of Linus' autobiography said already years ago:-)
It sounds to me that he rather needs a CMS for managing online content, not really a project co-ordination system. Therefore, Zope/Plone as front-end to the already existing (?) MySQL-database should be fine: comes with a lot of managing tools, workflow template etc. and allows easy customization. And it's free. And: there is a strong, large, and friendly community helping to fix any problem very fast. For the 10k (US-$?) he could get a lot of additional work done if needed. Ah, yes: And one of the main Plone developers is from Brazil:-)
and - for instance - Plone, too: It
- runs on almost everything (Windows, Mac OSX, Linux, *BSD - from Servers to Laptops),
- is very easy to set up and maintain,
- has an easy-to-understand web-based user interface,
- has a simple but powerful user management
- can store data in almost any SQL database, but
- comes with its own, very powerful object-oriented DB (ZODB).
Especially the last point makes it appear "naturally" to many users: They can store data as they are used to do in their filesystem inside folders, documents etc.
There is a LOT of additional, easy-to-use plug-ins (called "products") that allow, for instance, to put files onto the filesystem through-the-web -- and: all is very easily scriptable with Python.
So: Welcome to the Zope/Plone Community;-)
not one of those millions of bag-packs or crumbling crumblers that look one like the other. It's also not one of these heavy "armed" cases by Halliburton etc. The one thing that really really looks (and is) cool is: Second Alu Skin, available e.g. in Germany from www.arktis.de -- ok, sorry, it is for 15" PowerBooks only (the ones for 17" are sold out)... but how many other cool laptops deserving a cool case are really out there ?:-) In fact: almost everybody looks around - and nobody guesses that it's really a laptop _in_ there. Sometimes you'll get asked: "Is that a laptop?" (They mean: the case itself is one...) - Ok, there is no space in it except for the PowerBook itself, but Apple's small Power supply fits in almost every jacket pocket. And does one really need more to carry around? In the times of the "paperless bureau"? - I really do hope they go on producing those nice cases also for the new line of Apple laptops. One small problem: It is not one of the bullet-proof shock-protected cases. But, men! You are carrying around your second most important thing. So one could expect that you take a little bit of care? Are you wearing helmets because one day, maybe, there may fall a stone from heaven on your head? If your laptop is an expensive and important tool for your work and your daily compagnon also during the rest of the day (ok, no-one would a Dell or [you name them] have in sight longer than absolutely necessary...), you should care for it a little bit. If you do so, you do not really need a bullet- and water-proof, shock-protected, hard-cover back-pack that other people rather would use for sliding down the snow fields on a glacier...
Wikis were in use at universities almost since the beginnings in 1995, especially at Georgia Tech, which uses e.g. Squeak/Smalltalk based Wikis (In fact, SWiki, the Squeak Wiki, seems to have been the first very popular Wiki software around). Swiki is used there for collaborative work among students groups, documentation, programming courses etc. Some other examples are find in Ward Cunninghams Book about Wikis. So, I would say, there are a lot more ways to use Wikis besides (Technical) Documentation or Knowledge Bases (I would Wikipedia somehow count as one, too). One other example is the organization of meetings like the Plone Sprints in the Zope community.
I hope they may go on with this project and make available other collections as well, creating a world wide sound archive of early recordings. For instance, the Museum of Ethnology in Berlin, Germany, owns very rare recordings made by musicologist at the same time around the world: They document musical traditions that may have disappeared by now. Some of the recordings were later released on schellack record disks, but even these are very rare now (less the 5 sets or so world-wide).
"I actually don't agree with you there. The regular clicking and typing stuff is pretty much the same, the differences are in software installation and maintenance. Windows is a clear loser on maintenance, OS X is a loser on software installation, and Ubuntu (let's focus on a single distro) wins on both. I'll elaborate:"
Sorry, but this is to compare apples and peaches...
"Software installation: On Windows, I'm told everything is shipped as installers these days. So you download the installer, run it, click some buttons (mostly it does the right thing if you just keep clicking Next), and that's it."
This would be the same as the installation of ".app"-files under OSX; the example to install from source in OSX would rather parallel to installing something in Cygwin and compiling at with GCC there... anyhow, the installation (and especially: de-installation) of "normal" applications under OSX is far simplier. And, yes, it is even simplier than the (K)Ubuntu/Debian way.
"No dependency tracking is performed, though. On OS X, some software works that way, other software uses application bundles which you drag to your Applications folder, yet other software can be gotten from Fink or DarwinPorts, and for some software you have to compile from source."
As said above, these are 4 different ways, only one - the first - comparable to the typical Windows click-and-click-and-ok-and-click circus... which ends up with a lot of things installed you even don't know of...
"In other words, it's a mess. There's usually no dependency tracking. On Ubuntu, you open the package manager from the menus, select the package you want to install, and click Apply and Ok. The package and its dependencies are downloaded and installed for you, no questions asked. To me, that's a win for Ubuntu."
... except you want to install something from source, for instance the newest version of Zope: You have to compile it from source - that works under OSX the same way. - The Ubuntu way you describe would rather be compared with Apples system update: The only difference is, that the bunch of software to update is "a little bit" smaller..
"Maintenance: On Windows, you need a virus scanner and an adware remover, both of which need to be kept up to date."
Even that would not work - because virus scanners and all the other anti-malware-tools can only RE-act; so, if you're lucky you are not among the first to be infected or "owned"...
"Neither of the other systems requires these (yet). Windows itself is kept up to date through Windows updates, but for the rest of the software its either custom mechanisms or you have to do it manually (the latter being the usual case)."
You know that many people have problems in trusting Microsoft and giving them access to their computers? (And others too, like Anti-Virus Software manufacturers, for instance). And, especially in "working environments" you can't "update" many systems as soon as Microsoft publishes updates.
"On OS X, the system software is kept up to date through Apple's updater, software from Fink and DarwinPorts is kept up to date through those, and for the rest it's down to custom mechanisms or (usually) manual updates. On Ubuntu, all software is kept up to date through the system updater. This is a clear win for Ubuntu, IMO."
There we have the problem of trust, too, but in many (most of the?) cases, the source code of the software is available and can be checked - and there are many unix tools (part of the system or easy to install) to check what's running. - For instance, the installation of a "root-kit" like Sony tried recently with their CDs would be more difficult on the unices, wouldn't it?
"AFAIK, ThinkPads are completely supported. I'm not sure if they have WinModems, but for the rest everything is supported, including WLAN cards, power management, and special buttons."
B
I - for myself - agree. But for many friends of mine Linux is still too complicated to handle, though I'm sure now, that there is no big difference to Windows anymore - in many cases, Linux (KDE, for instance) is even easier to handle. But OSX is still far ahead of both - and any other system I know. And unfortunately - and I am the first to be still mad about that-, there is (as far as I know) _no_ completly Linux supported x86 laptop, or is there?
And the price difference between good x86 hardware and Apple is not that large: When a new Apples came out (2002, 2004 for instance, when I bought my Powerbooks) they often were even the cheapest compared to x86 Laptops of the same level of quality and technical advance. Sure, x86 came always up very fast with this level at lower prices, and therefore, you'll today find x86 laptops really comparable to the Apples at lower prices - but then the initial arguments of a much better usability and higher security and reliability step in again.
conclusion: I still cannot find any x86 laptop (with Windows or Linux on it) that I could recommend to "normal" users. And for the "geeks": Only have a look at the number of Macs you see on any "hacker" conference/meeting: No other company has there a "market" share of 30-40%.:-)) - because you can have usability, very advanced technical features, the power of *nix.. and a nice looking piece, too. (For me, the difference of having to work with a Dell and a Powerbook - 1 year ago - was like the difference between driving a Land Rover or a luxury limousine...)
be_kul
I'missing any hints on a possible new LED-driven display technique like in the Toshiba Libretto U100 and the Sony Vaio TX. THAT would be great - having an 12'' PowerBook running for 7-8 hours, with a higher screen resolution... of course, for 15'' and 17'' this would make sense, too.
be_kul
299 - ever when people point to those low prices comparing them with Apple's, I ask them: "What is your life-time worth? If you agree that a lost day (of work or full with horror/anger about your Windows not working or problems with hardware not supportet anymore after 1 year or so..) is at least worth $10, Apple's are far more worth the price. - And if you also count usability and security into that - at a price level as low as you can imagine - buying an Apple instead of a Wintel machine is always like a win in a lottery." No, I'm not completely joking!
Booting two OS? - No problem with a PowerPC Linux and "Mac On Linux" on it: OSX 10.3 parallel with Yellow Dog 4 is running very fast* and without major problems. The only problem is lacking hardware support especially for WLAN - but that is (as in all over cases with Linux) the manufacturer's fault who don't develop drivers.
If you can live with a 'normal' dual-boot on PowerPC, there is a bunch of free/OSS operating systems running on Macs.
be_kul
*I never tried to run Virtual PC inside an OSX running on Mac-on-Linux, but it should be possible and not remarkable slower than in "native" OSX - which is, indeed, at maximum a few percent (10 or so?) running in MoL than native.
ok, let's try:
In most latin words, the prefix "in-" is the sign of negation or opposition, e.g. "incompetence" is contrary to "competence". And "nova" obviously stands for "new" - so, "innovation" is the opposite of...?;-)
"The free software" - what does that mean? No, I can't believe it is FREE software - "free as in free speech" - only "free" as in free beer, right? Aha: shared source. Ok, done.
be_kul, stay kul:-)
"When will they ever learn? When will the ever learn?"
Linux is not so much about the money, but about freedom. And freedom has no price - I know what I am speaking about!
Breaking this basic idea down to the question of money and business means to ask: what will your TCO be in an potentially unlimited time when all your data belong to a closed source software? What does it cost you if your data get stolen through trojan horses (new or built-in) in your closed source software?
It's about freedom, (wo)man!
I think a big amount of this discussion goes wrong: Croquet - IMHO - is a way to organize a world of 2D _and_ 3D working places. We will still be writing texts on a 2D screen, but this screen or desktop window will be part of a larger 3D environment. In this environment others can interact with us, help us writing at the same document or link it to "objects" of all kind: not just only hyperlinks from text to text (or image), but from "object" to "object" in the broadest sense - even if this is a whole new "world" of objects itself. - So, the future I see in Croquet, is "expanding" our working environment to the 3rd dimension, where 2D will always have its place but not be the limit. Think of your real-life desktop: You may call it 2D... but it isn't. And, working on it, you may stand up and take a book from the shelve... and then link the information you found in the book to your text through a footnote. This will be much easier in a 3D working world like Croquet. - And if you want to have other people work with you on that text, you send it around or put it in a wiki. But - exept in SuperEthaEdit on OS X - you will not be able to see others typing directly onto your text. And then to communicate in real-time about their annotations.
That is, what Croquet is about (for me) - expanding the computer working experience more and closer to our "real world" experience (somehow the same thing or idea that object-orientation did 30 years ago...) and allowing to collaborate immediately. It's not only for special purposes like 3D virtual reality design or something like that! To say we won't need or use it, to me sounds like "Why should you work with e-mail, wikis and IRC - when you can do all of that with handwritten letters on paper?"
And one final aspect: The most interesting application of Croquet for me would be a sort of Google Earth mixed with it: Imagine a 3D model of the world "behind" Google Earth/Maps: One could visit places, museums, libraries, shops; deal with the objects there, interact with people, fill in forms or "read" books, annotate them and connect them to other "objects" where- and whatever they are... If 80-90% of our information is related to objects in the "real" world (the rest maybe to "concepts" and "objects" that do not have a special place in the space-time-continuum) than this seems to be the next logical step: You start your computer, go to a "virtual" place through your Croquet portal and work there, talk there, write there... maybe, only on texts in 2D, but that is not the limit anymore.
What do you think?
PS: of course, the basic technology has to be free as in free speech...!
full ACK!... and that's one more reason to think that Google might hurry to hire him and his team. But anyhow - I hope (t)he(y) will have the opportunity to work on without any limits set by stupid companies looking for fast money now and forgetting to see that innovation turns into success now even much faster than it did 20-30 years ago. Therefore, an open-minded Google might be the right place for Kay and his team now.
It's an interesting (not fully impossible) point of view what Cringely says - but with the "Steve beats Bill" a broader historical perspective came to my mind: Could it be Steve Jobs now sees the big chance to win a life-long race against Bill Gates with this switch? Surely, his EGO is much bigger than Bill's - and I'm sure he thinks of himself as being the one guy in PC history with the big ideas and visions. From his point of view, the top position should belong to him and no-one else. If he'd go on - switching to Intel and then turning Apple in a Software Company taking care of the hardware too by licensing its OS to "good" hardware only - he could win this race during the next 10-20 years... putting Bill back to where he belongs... (see below...)
For the moment, in fact, coming out with an x86-based and even more advanced OS X more than 6 months before Longhorn would be an ideal position to make manufacturers and people think about "Why not switch to OS X?" It's secure, fast (enough) _very_ usable and has all the features Longhorn maybe will have...
Here's my favorite joke on Steve: The soul of the pope arrives at Heaven's Gate where a long long line of souls is waiting to get in. The pope goes to the top of the line and knocks on the door. After a while, Saint Peter is opening a small window: "You here? You just died - you'll have to wait in line with the others!" - "Come on, I'm your successor, you should not let me wait for so long!" - "No. In front of God all souls are equal. You have to wait!" So the pope goes back to the end of the line, which takes 3 days! When he arrives, a big big american car goes by - and in there is Steve Jobs! Heaven's Gate opens, the car goes in without even a stop. The Pope gets angry and walks back to the gate. "Peter, what was that? You said, you can't let me in immediately, because all the souls are equal in front of God. And now you let Steve Jobs in - with a car??" - "This WAS GOD!"
... and they dare to (mis-) use the holy name of Simula for this... shit! (Isn't it protected by one of the creators of Simula? Where are the true-hearted knights of the holy grail of object-orientation to fight against this evil dragon?)
Bernd
could it be you didn't read my message? I was not saying anything against you but tried to answer the question from the/.-news, what should we do to stop these malware attacks from Windows computers.
But thank you for your compliment, Mr. Gentle!
take every computer that sends out infected mail immediately from the net - together with a warning that they will only be allowed to connect again after:
- they ordered a patch CD from Microsoft by (normal) mail,
- installed it under supervision of a certified security engineer (for 100 $ per personal visit) and
- the certification is sent by invoice mail to their ISP.
This procedure they will be necessarily only once in every case, I'm sure.
Kulinux
Slashdot Mirror
Of course there is someone who needs it: The investor(s). And the less people it serves, the better is it – because that means more profit for every one of them. Look: This is Capitalism. So, what do you think pharma industry is good for? Making pharma products or making (more profit from) capital? but don't think twice.
(t)he(y) forgot to mention: $12 million PER SECOND. ;-)
No, they are not useless. They will possibly prevent millions of people from dying of hunger – by killing them first.
the author of the blog wants to make big news with the idea that Linux gives you a lot of fun? Hm ... that's what it all about since the beginning... as the title of Linus' autobiography said already years ago :-)
It sounds to me that he rather needs a CMS for managing online content, not really a project co-ordination system. Therefore, Zope/Plone as front-end to the already existing (?) MySQL-database should be fine: comes with a lot of managing tools, workflow template etc. and allows easy customization. And it's free. And: there is a strong, large, and friendly community helping to fix any problem very fast. For the 10k (US-$?) he could get a lot of additional work done if needed. Ah, yes: And one of the main Plone developers is from Brazil :-)
and - for instance - Plone, too: It ;-)
- runs on almost everything (Windows, Mac OSX, Linux, *BSD - from Servers to Laptops),
- is very easy to set up and maintain, - has an easy-to-understand web-based user interface,
- has a simple but powerful user management
- can store data in almost any SQL database, but
- comes with its own, very powerful object-oriented DB (ZODB).
Especially the last point makes it appear "naturally" to many users: They can store data as they are used to do in their filesystem inside folders, documents etc. There is a LOT of additional, easy-to-use plug-ins (called "products") that allow, for instance, to put files onto the filesystem through-the-web -- and: all is very easily scriptable with Python.
So: Welcome to the Zope/Plone Community
not one of those millions of bag-packs or crumbling crumblers that look one like the other. It's also not one of these heavy "armed" cases by Halliburton etc. The one thing that really really looks (and is) cool is: Second Alu Skin, available e.g. in Germany from www.arktis.de -- ok, sorry, it is for 15" PowerBooks only (the ones for 17" are sold out) ... but how many other cool laptops deserving a cool case are really out there ? :-) In fact: almost everybody looks around - and nobody guesses that it's really a laptop _in_ there. Sometimes you'll get asked: "Is that a laptop?" (They mean: the case itself is one ...) - Ok, there is no space in it except for the PowerBook itself, but Apple's small Power supply fits in almost every jacket pocket. And does one really need more to carry around? In the times of the "paperless bureau"? - I really do hope they go on producing those nice cases also for the new line of Apple laptops. One small problem: It is not one of the bullet-proof shock-protected cases. But, men! You are carrying around your second most important thing. So one could expect that you take a little bit of care? Are you wearing helmets because one day, maybe, there may fall a stone from heaven on your head? If your laptop is an expensive and important tool for your work and your daily compagnon also during the rest of the day (ok, no-one would a Dell or [you name them] have in sight longer than absolutely necessary ...), you should care for it a little bit. If you do so, you do not really need a bullet- and water-proof, shock-protected, hard-cover back-pack that other people rather would use for sliding down the snow fields on a glacier ...
Wikis were in use at universities almost since the beginnings in 1995, especially at Georgia Tech, which uses e.g. Squeak/Smalltalk based Wikis (In fact, SWiki, the Squeak Wiki, seems to have been the first very popular Wiki software around). Swiki is used there for collaborative work among students groups, documentation, programming courses etc. Some other examples are find in Ward Cunninghams Book about Wikis. So, I would say, there are a lot more ways to use Wikis besides (Technical) Documentation or Knowledge Bases (I would Wikipedia somehow count as one, too). One other example is the organization of meetings like the Plone Sprints in the Zope community.
I hope they may go on with this project and make available other collections as well, creating a world wide sound archive of early recordings.
For instance, the Museum of Ethnology in Berlin, Germany, owns very rare recordings made by musicologist at the same time around the world: They document musical traditions that may have disappeared by now. Some of the recordings were later released on schellack record disks, but even these are very rare now (less the 5 sets or so world-wide).
"I actually don't agree with you there. The regular clicking and typing stuff is pretty much the same, the differences are in software installation and maintenance. Windows is a clear loser on maintenance, OS X is a loser on software installation, and Ubuntu (let's focus on a single distro) wins on both. I'll elaborate:" ...
... anyhow, the installation (and especially: de-installation) of "normal" applications under OSX is far simplier. And, yes, it is even simplier than the (K)Ubuntu/Debian way.
... which ends up with a lot of things installed you even don't know of...
... except you want to install something from source, for instance the newest version of Zope: You have to compile it from source - that works under OSX the same way. - The Ubuntu way you describe would rather be compared with Apples system update: The only difference is, that the bunch of software to update is "a little bit" smaller ..
...
Sorry, but this is to compare apples and peaches
"Software installation: On Windows, I'm told everything is shipped as installers these days. So you download the installer, run it, click some buttons (mostly it does the right thing if you just keep clicking Next), and that's it."
This would be the same as the installation of ".app"-files under OSX; the example to install from source in OSX would rather parallel to installing something in Cygwin and compiling at with GCC there
"No dependency tracking is performed, though. On OS X, some software works that way, other software uses application bundles which you drag to your Applications folder, yet other software can be gotten from Fink or DarwinPorts, and for some software you have to compile from source."
As said above, these are 4 different ways, only one - the first - comparable to the typical Windows click-and-click-and-ok-and-click circus
"In other words, it's a mess. There's usually no dependency tracking. On Ubuntu, you open the package manager from the menus, select the package you want to install, and click Apply and Ok. The package and its dependencies are downloaded and installed for you, no questions asked. To me, that's a win for Ubuntu."
"Maintenance: On Windows, you need a virus scanner and an adware remover, both of which need to be kept up to date."
Even that would not work - because virus scanners and all the other anti-malware-tools can only RE-act; so, if you're lucky you are not among the first to be infected or "owned"
"Neither of the other systems requires these (yet). Windows itself is kept up to date through Windows updates, but for the rest of the software its either custom mechanisms or you have to do it manually (the latter being the usual case)."
You know that many people have problems in trusting Microsoft and giving them access to their computers? (And others too, like Anti-Virus Software manufacturers, for instance). And, especially in "working environments" you can't "update" many systems as soon as Microsoft publishes updates.
"On OS X, the system software is kept up to date through Apple's updater, software from Fink and DarwinPorts is kept up to date through those, and for the rest it's down to custom mechanisms or (usually) manual updates. On Ubuntu, all software is kept up to date through the system updater. This is a clear win for Ubuntu, IMO."
There we have the problem of trust, too, but in many (most of the?) cases, the source code of the software is available and can be checked - and there are many unix tools (part of the system or easy to install) to check what's running. - For instance, the installation of a "root-kit" like Sony tried recently with their CDs would be more difficult on the unices, wouldn't it?
"AFAIK, ThinkPads are completely supported. I'm not sure if they have WinModems, but for the rest everything is supported, including WLAN cards, power management, and special buttons."
B
I - for myself - agree. But for many friends of mine Linux is still too complicated to handle, though I'm sure now, that there is no big difference to Windows anymore - in many cases, Linux (KDE, for instance) is even easier to handle. But OSX is still far ahead of both - and any other system I know. And unfortunately - and I am the first to be still mad about that-, there is (as far as I know) _no_ completly Linux supported x86 laptop, or is there? :-)) - because you can have usability, very advanced technical features, the power of *nix .. and a nice looking piece, too. (For me, the difference of having to work with a Dell and a Powerbook - 1 year ago - was like the difference between driving a Land Rover or a luxury limousine...)
And the price difference between good x86 hardware and Apple is not that large: When a new Apples came out (2002, 2004 for instance, when I bought my Powerbooks) they often were even the cheapest compared to x86 Laptops of the same level of quality and technical advance. Sure, x86 came always up very fast with this level at lower prices, and therefore, you'll today find x86 laptops really comparable to the Apples at lower prices - but then the initial arguments of a much better usability and higher security and reliability step in again.
conclusion: I still cannot find any x86 laptop (with Windows or Linux on it) that I could recommend to "normal" users. And for the "geeks": Only have a look at the number of Macs you see on any "hacker" conference/meeting: No other company has there a "market" share of 30-40%.
be_kul
I'missing any hints on a possible new LED-driven display technique like in the Toshiba Libretto U100 and the Sony Vaio TX. THAT would be great - having an 12'' PowerBook running for 7-8 hours, with a higher screen resolution ... of course, for 15'' and 17'' this would make sense, too.
be_kul
299 - ever when people point to those low prices comparing them with Apple's, I ask them: "What is your life-time worth? If you agree that a lost day (of work or full with horror/anger about your Windows not working or problems with hardware not supportet anymore after 1 year or so..) is at least worth $10, Apple's are far more worth the price. - And if you also count usability and security into that - at a price level as low as you can imagine - buying an Apple instead of a Wintel machine is always like a win in a lottery." No, I'm not completely joking!
Booting two OS? - No problem with a PowerPC Linux and "Mac On Linux" on it: OSX 10.3 parallel with Yellow Dog 4 is running very fast* and without major problems. The only problem is lacking hardware support especially for WLAN - but that is (as in all over cases with Linux) the manufacturer's fault who don't develop drivers.
If you can live with a 'normal' dual-boot on PowerPC, there is a bunch of free/OSS operating systems running on Macs.
be_kul
*I never tried to run Virtual PC inside an OSX running on Mac-on-Linux, but it should be possible and not remarkable slower than in "native" OSX - which is, indeed, at maximum a few percent (10 or so?) running in MoL than native.
ok, let's try: In most latin words, the prefix "in-" is the sign of negation or opposition, e.g. "incompetence" is contrary to "competence". And "nova" obviously stands for "new" - so, "innovation" is the opposite of ...? ;-)
"The free software" - what does that mean? No, I can't believe it is FREE software - "free as in free speech" - only "free" as in free beer, right? Aha: shared source. Ok, done. be_kul, stay kul :-)
"When will they ever learn? When will the ever learn?" Linux is not so much about the money, but about freedom. And freedom has no price - I know what I am speaking about!
Breaking this basic idea down to the question of money and business means to ask: what will your TCO be in an potentially unlimited time when all your data belong to a closed source software? What does it cost you if your data get stolen through trojan horses (new or built-in) in your closed source software?
It's about freedom, (wo)man!
I think a big amount of this discussion goes wrong: Croquet - IMHO - is a way to organize a world of 2D _and_ 3D working places. We will still be writing texts on a 2D screen, but this screen or desktop window will be part of a larger 3D environment. In this environment others can interact with us, help us writing at the same document or link it to "objects" of all kind: not just only hyperlinks from text to text (or image), but from "object" to "object" in the broadest sense - even if this is a whole new "world" of objects itself. - So, the future I see in Croquet, is "expanding" our working environment to the 3rd dimension, where 2D will always have its place but not be the limit. Think of your real-life desktop: You may call it 2D ... but it isn't. And, working on it, you may stand up and take a book from the shelve ... and then link the information you found in the book to your text through a footnote. This will be much easier in a 3D working world like Croquet. - And if you want to have other people work with you on that text, you send it around or put it in a wiki. But - exept in SuperEthaEdit on OS X - you will not be able to see others typing directly onto your text. And then to communicate in real-time about their annotations.
That is, what Croquet is about (for me) - expanding the computer working experience more and closer to our "real world" experience (somehow the same thing or idea that object-orientation did 30 years ago ...) and allowing to collaborate immediately. It's not only for special purposes like 3D virtual reality design or something like that! To say we won't need or use it, to me sounds like "Why should you work with e-mail, wikis and IRC - when you can do all of that with handwritten letters on paper?"
And one final aspect: The most interesting application of Croquet for me would be a sort of Google Earth mixed with it: Imagine a 3D model of the world "behind" Google Earth/Maps: One could visit places, museums, libraries, shops; deal with the objects there, interact with people, fill in forms or "read" books, annotate them and connect them to other "objects" where- and whatever they are ... If 80-90% of our information is related to objects in the "real" world (the rest maybe to "concepts" and "objects" that do not have a special place in the space-time-continuum) than this seems to be the next logical step: You start your computer, go to a "virtual" place through your Croquet portal and work there, talk there, write there ... maybe, only on texts in 2D, but that is not the limit anymore.
What do you think?
PS: of course, the basic technology has to be free as in free speech...!
full ACK! ... and that's one more reason to think that Google might hurry to hire him and his team. But anyhow - I hope (t)he(y) will have the opportunity to work on without any limits set by stupid companies looking for fast money now and forgetting to see that innovation turns into success now even much faster than it did 20-30 years ago. Therefore, an open-minded Google might be the right place for Kay and his team now.
It's an interesting (not fully impossible) point of view what Cringely says - but with the "Steve beats Bill" a broader historical perspective came to my mind: Could it be Steve Jobs now sees the big chance to win a life-long race against Bill Gates with this switch? Surely, his EGO is much bigger than Bill's - and I'm sure he thinks of himself as being the one guy in PC history with the big ideas and visions. From his point of view, the top position should belong to him and no-one else. If he'd go on - switching to Intel and then turning Apple in a Software Company taking care of the hardware too by licensing its OS to "good" hardware only - he could win this race during the next 10-20 years ... putting Bill back to where he belongs ... (see below...)
For the moment, in fact, coming out with an x86-based and even more advanced OS X more than 6 months before Longhorn would be an ideal position to make manufacturers and people think about "Why not switch to OS X?" It's secure, fast (enough) _very_ usable and has all the features Longhorn maybe will have...
Here's my favorite joke on Steve: The soul of the pope arrives at Heaven's Gate where a long long line of souls is waiting to get in. The pope goes to the top of the line and knocks on the door. After a while, Saint Peter is opening a small window: "You here? You just died - you'll have to wait in line with the others!" - "Come on, I'm your successor, you should not let me wait for so long!" - "No. In front of God all souls are equal. You have to wait!" So the pope goes back to the end of the line, which takes 3 days! When he arrives, a big big american car goes by - and in there is Steve Jobs! Heaven's Gate opens, the car goes in without even a stop. The Pope gets angry and walks back to the gate. "Peter, what was that? You said, you can't let me in immediately, because all the souls are equal in front of God. And now you let Steve Jobs in - with a car??" - "This WAS GOD!"
... and they dare to (mis-) use the holy name of Simula for this ... shit! (Isn't it protected by one of the creators of Simula? Where are the true-hearted knights of the holy grail of object-orientation to fight against this evil dragon?)
Bernd
could it be you didn't read my message? I was not saying anything against you but tried to answer the question from the /.-news, what should we do to stop these malware attacks from Windows computers.
But thank you for your compliment, Mr. Gentle!
take every computer that sends out infected mail immediately from the net - together with a warning that they will only be allowed to connect again after: - they ordered a patch CD from Microsoft by (normal) mail, - installed it under supervision of a certified security engineer (for 100 $ per personal visit) and - the certification is sent by invoice mail to their ISP. This procedure they will be necessarily only once in every case, I'm sure. Kulinux