I've had a bit of a sleep on it, and want to change the way I'm portraying myself here:
If you follow the link in my sig, you'll see that I have two open source projects (1 GPL, 1 BSD). They fill the gap that I needed, and if someone wants to take them further they are most welcome to do so.
I also regularly post videos about novel/obscure hacks and provide supplimentary info for free on my site. These videos are under a creativecommons.org license (mostly attribution, share a-like) because open source for these simply isn't viable or valuable. So I am actively contibuting to what I believe in and if what I do interests you, I encourage you to take a look.
So Back on topic.
While that's what the purely semantic meaning of the phrase would imply, it's not what the OSI means by "Open Source".
I feel your frustration. It annoys me when people take literal meaning over what was originally meant. While GNU has been around for quite a while, OSI has only been around since 98. Having said that, I'm sure the original inventor of the wheel didn't have in mind a lot of the stuff that the Nitro Circus guys get up to. So things do need to grow.... I'm going to end that stream of midnight babble. Next!
I read another thread somewhere on this forum that SugarCRM has been misleading before in their licensing. If that's true, that sucks. I came across a chronic example of that a few years ago, and out of spite, I reverse engineered quite a lot of obfuscated code. Fun:D , but bad that I had to.
But almost everything I've seen in this discussion has been badly one sided, and some very valid points in the other direction have been marked as troll. As such I feel the moderators should look at themselves in the mirror. Do they honestly respect the person they see?
I've had the priviledge to work at some places that see the value of open source software and want to give back. This is awesome. We've got to remember that an important portion of the software we use today has come about this way.
I've also worked at places that wanted to contribute, but chicked out because of the sort of purist comments I've read here tonight.
For our ecosystem to survive, there's got to be a balance between "for the common good" and "I've got to live". Otherwise people simply won't want to contribute.
Agreed. I love open source, and use it almost exclusively. However, when people start getting purist about it, I do feel the need to remind them of companies like redhat who had made significant contributions to the open source community. Companies like these need to make money somehow. Sometimes they do it by having a paid version which effectively pays for the free one, sometimes it's by providing a service of some form like advertising, customisations, or installation. Everything has to be created, maintained, documented etc by someone, and there's one heck of a lot of work to do and only so many students with spare time.
Section 1 only requires that redistribution rights be granted to people when made a part of an aggregate work from multiple sources.
This means you are not guaranteed the right to just copy the code out to anyone and everyone... without created an aggregate work.
that open source is simply that users have access to the source code.
The license then defines what you are allowed/obligated to do with it. Making it freely available/redistributable to everyone works very well with open source since it's very hard to control who can use it and who can't. But as far as I'm aware, open source does not actually define what people can do with it. It's just saying that the source code is available to its users.
Whether copyright law still benefits society is a debatable point.
I'd love to see an alternative that would mean that people could create without sacrificing their ability to live. There's bound to be a solution, but I haven't seen it yet.
I'm really pleased he posted that blog post. It does beautifully sum up the two sides and the frustrations of each. It's very hard to argue with someone who believes that something is their right.
Something that occured to me as you said this, was VM + external logs. So if the VM gets trashed, you still have a pretty good idea what the last thing to happen was. Most HW basd firewalls will give you a log of URLs, but even that can be like finding a needle in a haystack.
I thought it was interesting that they focussed more on how they handel it rather than the technology itself. Is this a universal "all govt departments handel it this way"? Or is this specifically the NSA?
The thing that popped into my mind while reading this was the possibility of this being used to operate the entire system at this level (rather than just making use of leakage). If it could perform fast enough, this could potentially massively reduce power consumption, and thus the need for cooling as well.
On a generic note, there's lots of Exif tools about. Under Linux I use exiftool in a script I use to take photos from an SD card. So personally, I script it since I can just set it going, and leave it be.
Market competition is ideally supposed to lead to innovation, resulting in customers getting radically more for less over time.
I agree with most of what of you said. But I'd like to point out that while the use of consumables may improve with innovation, innovation does little to reduce the cost of getting the raw materials. You can't expect to double the amount of black stuff you can mine every 18 months with constant costs.
That only works for Google. You know damn well if they sent that data to Microsoft they would have denied it for several months only to fix it when an exploit was released in the wild.That's how the Redmond spin works
Not to mention legal gun fire as well. But there are positive examples out there like this, and I think it's really good to encourage this.
Foreword: We would really like to acknowledge Google’s positive attitude toward our report and results. Google has been very responsive to our findings and is taking actions to fix them. We are very pleased about it.
I think its great when the people discovering the problem, and the people being alerted about the problem behave so well to each other. (They sent the paper to google a month before releasing the final thing.)
This would be great for when the parents come over. Just put all the mess in one big pile in the middle of the room, drop a cloak over the top and tell then that some ancient voodoo person died in this house right there, and you mustn't stand there because it's cursed!
I originally had a very similar reaction to this. So then I went and read TFA. So:
- I still wouldn't spend money on social networking.
- I wouldn't expect many people to spend money on social networking.
However
- As a geek, I would probably buy this just so I could mess with it.
- This is a very plausible step towards mesh networking. Equip it with wifi, and THAT might be a more feasible way to market this in the short term. At that point, traditional carriers would simply be there to bridge the gap between meshes.
Slashdot Mirror
I've had a bit of a sleep on it, and want to change the way I'm portraying myself here:
If you follow the link in my sig, you'll see that I have two open source projects (1 GPL, 1 BSD). They fill the gap that I needed, and if someone wants to take them further they are most welcome to do so.
I also regularly post videos about novel/obscure hacks and provide supplimentary info for free on my site. These videos are under a creativecommons.org license (mostly attribution, share a-like) because open source for these simply isn't viable or valuable. So I am actively contibuting to what I believe in and if what I do interests you, I encourage you to take a look.
So Back on topic.
While that's what the purely semantic meaning of the phrase would imply, it's not what the OSI means by "Open Source".
I feel your frustration. It annoys me when people take literal meaning over what was originally meant. While GNU has been around for quite a while, OSI has only been around since 98. Having said that, I'm sure the original inventor of the wheel didn't have in mind a lot of the stuff that the Nitro Circus guys get up to. So things do need to grow.... I'm going to end that stream of midnight babble. Next!
I read another thread somewhere on this forum that SugarCRM has been misleading before in their licensing. If that's true, that sucks. I came across a chronic example of that a few years ago, and out of spite, I reverse engineered quite a lot of obfuscated code. Fun :D , but bad that I had to.
But almost everything I've seen in this discussion has been badly one sided, and some very valid points in the other direction have been marked as troll. As such I feel the moderators should look at themselves in the mirror. Do they honestly respect the person they see?
I've had the priviledge to work at some places that see the value of open source software and want to give back. This is awesome. We've got to remember that an important portion of the software we use today has come about this way.
I've also worked at places that wanted to contribute, but chicked out because of the sort of purist comments I've read here tonight.
For our ecosystem to survive, there's got to be a balance between "for the common good" and "I've got to live". Otherwise people simply won't want to contribute.
HTH :)
- Kevin
Agreed. I love open source, and use it almost exclusively. However, when people start getting purist about it, I do feel the need to remind them of companies like redhat who had made significant contributions to the open source community. Companies like these need to make money somehow. Sometimes they do it by having a paid version which effectively pays for the free one, sometimes it's by providing a service of some form like advertising, customisations, or installation. Everything has to be created, maintained, documented etc by someone, and there's one heck of a lot of work to do and only so many students with spare time.
Hasn't open source been around for quite some time before these?
Section 1 only requires that redistribution rights be granted to people when made a part of an aggregate work from multiple sources. This means you are not guaranteed the right to just copy the code out to anyone and everyone... without created an aggregate work.
How did this get marked as troll?
that open source is simply that users have access to the source code. The license then defines what you are allowed/obligated to do with it. Making it freely available/redistributable to everyone works very well with open source since it's very hard to control who can use it and who can't. But as far as I'm aware, open source does not actually define what people can do with it. It's just saying that the source code is available to its users.
Whether copyright law still benefits society is a debatable point.
I'd love to see an alternative that would mean that people could create without sacrificing their ability to live. There's bound to be a solution, but I haven't seen it yet.
I'm really pleased he posted that blog post. It does beautifully sum up the two sides and the frustrations of each. It's very hard to argue with someone who believes that something is their right.
wow
I put in feature requests to fix the problem, wow, forever ago.
If your tone was anything like what it's been in these comments, I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was deleted or marked as troll.
Something that occured to me as you said this, was VM + external logs. So if the VM gets trashed, you still have a pretty good idea what the last thing to happen was. Most HW basd firewalls will give you a log of URLs, but even that can be like finding a needle in a haystack.
LOL
I thought it was interesting that they focussed more on how they handel it rather than the technology itself. Is this a universal "all govt departments handel it this way"? Or is this specifically the NSA?
The thing that popped into my mind while reading this was the possibility of this being used to operate the entire system at this level (rather than just making use of leakage). If it could perform fast enough, this could potentially massively reduce power consumption, and thus the need for cooling as well.
On a generic note, there's lots of Exif tools about. Under Linux I use exiftool in a script I use to take photos from an SD card. So personally, I script it since I can just set it going, and leave it be.
Anyone else picturing this thing flying past with no cover on?
This is when they discover that they were actually writing to /dev/null
Market competition is ideally supposed to lead to innovation, resulting in customers getting radically more for less over time.
I agree with most of what of you said. But I'd like to point out that while the use of consumables may improve with innovation, innovation does little to reduce the cost of getting the raw materials. You can't expect to double the amount of black stuff you can mine every 18 months with constant costs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHmvkRoEowc
That only works for Google. You know damn well if they sent that data to Microsoft they would have denied it for several months only to fix it when an exploit was released in the wild.That's how the Redmond spin works
Not to mention legal gun fire as well. But there are positive examples out there like this, and I think it's really good to encourage this.
Foreword: We would really like to acknowledge Google’s positive attitude toward our report and results. Google has been very responsive to our findings and is taking actions to fix them. We are very pleased about it.
I think its great when the people discovering the problem, and the people being alerted about the problem behave so well to each other. (They sent the paper to google a month before releasing the final thing.)
Not to mention if you fart while you're in the womens' changing room!
This would be great for when the parents come over. Just put all the mess in one big pile in the middle of the room, drop a cloak over the top and tell then that some ancient voodoo person died in this house right there, and you mustn't stand there because it's cursed!
I originally had a very similar reaction to this. So then I went and read TFA. So: - I still wouldn't spend money on social networking. - I wouldn't expect many people to spend money on social networking. However - As a geek, I would probably buy this just so I could mess with it. - This is a very plausible step towards mesh networking. Equip it with wifi, and THAT might be a more feasible way to market this in the short term. At that point, traditional carriers would simply be there to bridge the gap between meshes.
LOL. I enjoyed that :)
Unless you think the effect is cool - in which case you're a retard.
This is where art and profession differentiate. And why they need each other.
Opinion != fact