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Opera 10.60 Released, With Faster JS, WebM Video Support
teh31337one writes "Four short months after Opera 10.50, the latest version of Opera's lightweight web browser has been released. It not only claims to be the fastest browser, but also the first final browser with WebM video support. It's available for Windows, Mac and Linux." Update: 07/04 21:53 GMT by T : Headline updated to reflect that this is Opera 10.60, rather than 10.6. Thanks to the readers who spotted this goof.
damn, it's fast!
At first I was confused by this article, since I was reading it in Opera 10.11. The new version is called 10.60, not 10.6.
Simon's Rock College
Opera brags about this, but my experience is that it's generally quirky in comparison to other browsers (not IE) with valid (X)HTML/CSS. For instance, W3 specs say that a blockquote should be rendered with equal whitespace before and after (link here) , yet Opera won't give it any whitespace in a after the closing blockquote tag. This breaks the appearance of many sites, including imageboards.
Why should I care about a non-extensible browser that does some artificial benchmarks a millisecond faster? Not trolling, I'm trying to figure out what practical benefit Opera has for its users.
holy cow i'm totally going so fast oh f***
Are you sure? This shows as your exact description of proper in Opera 10.6...
Which is why I'm that much more baffled over their 'beef' with Yahoo in regards to Yahoo Mail. They really need to sort that out, it's annoying.
Can you post some screenshots of this problem? I have never noticed it before. My suspicion is that you're using a proxy or some filtering software that's damaging the HTML that Opera is subsequently displaying.
For a long time it was the only browser to support border-radius CSS. It's currently the only browser with WebM support. I like it because of its right click->Validate feature, which sends the cached copy of the current page to the w3 validator. Plus it also has Inspect Element (like Chrome), mouse gestures (like the Firefox addons), and it looks good in Mac OS X and Windows (although not so much in Linux). Plus Opera Unite is really cool too. Opera Mail is also pretty decent. Also, I can't find in the spec where W3 recommends equal whitespace before and after blockquotes. All it says, as far as I can tell, is that it should be indented.
Yea, the confusion of decimal version numbers. How often is Ubuntu 9.10 called Ubuntu 9.1, as another example? Windows 3.1 had decimal 10 as the minor version, while Windows XP (5.1) had decimal 01 as the minor version.
Not trolling, I'm trying to figure out what practical benefit Opera has for its users.
The 80-20 rule, 80% of the benefit of Firefox with 20% of the effort fiddling with all the extensions. Firefox without any extensions at all is a poorer browser than Opera, and I got better things do to than to custom design my browser.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Summary is a nice rehash of Engadgets post. nice.
http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/04/opera-10-6-hits-windows-mac-and-linux-with-faster-javascript-w/
Also renders correctly on my outdated Opera 10.10 (build 6790) on Mac OS X 10.6.4
Opera used to cost money. Then they switched to an ad-supported shareware model (no ads if you paid). Then they went free (as on $0) on the desktop and brought in the revenue by licensing to mobile phones, consoles, etc. That worked when smartphones were neglected and the only other option was IE mobile. But these days, WebKit is used by (or will be used by) pretty much everyone except Microsoft (who are on the verge of irrelevance). And Mozilla might, someday, gain traction with their mobile browser.
Who is going to pay for Opera when they can use WebKit or Fennec for free? They don't have the google ad revenue that Mozilla has. They don't have a sugar daddy like IE or WebKit.
It doesn't matter how good their browser is, their business model is dead and their days are numbered.
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
It's available for Windows, Mac and Linux."
No, it's available for Windows, Mac OS X, Linux, FreeBSD and Solaris.
FYI, on my system the opera:about page shows it as version "10.60 internal", but its browser identification is:
"Opera/9.80 (X11; Linux i686; U; en) Presto/2.6.30 Version/10.60"
which could be construed as meaning either version 9.80 or version 10.60.
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
Plus it also has Inspect Element (like Chrome), mouse gestures (like the Firefox addons), and it looks good in Mac OS X and Windows (although not so much in Linux).
I really like Opera on Windows, but I find it dreadful on OS X. I like mouse gestures and use them regularly, but Opera only supports the mouse gestures built into Opera, not the system service ones that work in all my other apps. The same goes for the rest of the system services. No support for the native spellchecker or grammar checker or word statistics. No automatic language translation, dictionary/thesaurus lookup, or text manipulation services. If you give up all the cool OS supplied features of OS X, you might as well be on Windows. I always seems to me like a badly ported Windows app, which is too bad because it is a very nice Windows app.
FYI, on my system the opera:about page shows it as version "10.60 internal", but its browser identification is:
"Opera/9.80 (X11; Linux i686; U; en) Presto/2.6.30 Version/10.60"
which could be construed as meaning either version 9.80 or version 10.60.
You can thank idiots who do browser sniffing the wrong way for that.
Basically, some people who should have never been allowed to do any development checked for Opera's version by the first digit. When Opera went to 10.00, some scripts suddenly thought it was Opera 1, and things went very bad. Therefore, all future Opera versions will fake-identify as "Opera/9.x" in order to prevent that from happening.
Chrome seems to be the next in line to hit version 10 by the way things are going, so I don't doubt they'll be in the same boat when it happens.
I thought the specifications were at best poorly written and confusing?
Also, where are the WebM encoders? Doesn't do us much good if browsers support WebM and there's not any tools to encode into that format.
Here is why: http://dev.opera.com/articles/view/opera-ua-string-changes/
I'm trying to figure out what practical benefit Opera has for its users.
Of all browsers I've tried, it has the most customizable keybindings, and, in general, the single best implementation of keyboard-only browsing.
(Yes, I've tried the Firefox plugins which promised the same. They're not on par.)
On the whole, though, Opera doesn't have a single major killer feature. Rather, it's a combination of little (and obvious, come to think of it) things, each of which makes your life that much easier - and no-one else offers the entire set in one box. For example, Opera is the only browser I know of which lets you submit a form to a new tab, background tab etc (same keyboard modifiers when clicking submit button as for links).
Forgot to noparse my HTML...
Opera won't give it any whitespace after the closing blockquote if the blockquote tags are within TD tags.
There's an official video somewhere that pronounces it version 10-60.
Should be easy...
This text has the blockquote tag with no space
afterwards.
--- Users are like bacteria -> Each one causing a thousand tiny crises until the host finally gives up and dies.
10.60 finally syncs the version between all their supported versions (Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD; Solaris was dropped recently and is stuck on 10.10). The had to rush 10.50 to get it in the browser ballot, so they released only a Windows version with OS X being on beta and Linux/FreeBSD on alpha. Some weeks layer they released 10.52 (IIRC) for Windows and OS X and announced that there wouldn't be an official release for 10.5* for Linux or FreeBSD (betas were available).
It may be 7 digits, but at least it's a semiprime
There are system mouse gestures? Since when? Do you mean multitouch gestures? I don't have a such a capable mouse or trackpad, and my trackpad is broken anyway. As for all those other services, I don't need a grammar checker (generally...), there is a spell checker built-in to Opera (which, again, I don't need), Opera can send you straight to MW.com for dictionary/thesaurus or Wikipedia for encyclopedia, and I don't know what "text manipulation" services you're talking about; the ones that show up in the services menu for me are the same that show up in Safari's services menu. Then again, I'm also services-retarded; I never use them beyond playing with Summarize every once in a while.
I'm sure better Mac OS X integration will come in time; it already looks like a native Mac app. More so than Firefox, at any rate.
That renders virtually identically using Opera 10.60, multiple versions of Firefox 2 and 3, Safari, Chrome 5 and 6, and even IE 7 and 8. I'm only seeing differences of, at most, three pixels between the different browsers. That is, there is virtually no difference between Opera 10.60 and the other browsers, as far as I can see.
(Posting from Opera 10.60)
You can thank idiots who do browser sniffing the wrong way for that.
If you're doing browser sniffing you're already doing it the wrong way.
It's official. Most of you are morons.
Perhaps, but who cares? Let those sites break. Sites should display identically on every browser and adhere to all standards, not utilizing any browser qwirks. If they don't they are badly designed pages, plain and simple. It's not the browser's responsibility to compensate for an incompetent web developer.
Example: Opera, Firefox and other browsers
My html got filtered out by slashdot (my mistake, I put a TD tag within < and > without using HTML entities), the problem occurs when blockquotes are within TD tags and is not the result of any filtering software.
Filed a bug report with Opera software, never heard back.
Not to mention that most greasemonkey scripts work in Opera as well.
Why? The more, the merrier!
...over 10.5x series on the Mac. 10.6 hasn't crashed yet!
I just downloaded this new version and found the animation on the google.com home page much smoother in Opera than in Firefox, especially the star falling part. This really makes Firefox look bad.
How would the users know it's that site that is broken, and not the browser?
I've switched my default browser from opera to chrome. I'm ready to uninstall opera, it's not worth trying to browse the web with right now. I have to go to FireFox on FreeBSD because chrome is not ported.
Anonymous comments are as pathetic as the anonymous "sources" that contaminate gutless journalism from the New York Time
Really?
The extensions I use with Firefox:
NoScript
AdBlock Plus
FlashBlock
FireBug
RefControl
Now tell me exactly how I can get that functionality with Opera. There is no "fiddling", I just click "install" and I'm done.
Ask their geek friends who read Slashdot.
There are system mouse gestures? Since when? Do you mean multitouch gestures?
OS X supports system services which can be installed by themselves or be supplied by an application. There are two different services available for OS X that can be used in pretty much all applications that use the Cocoa APIs, but won't work in Opera. So while I can use gestures in Opera, I have to configure them independently of all my other mouse gestures, which rather sucks.
. As for all those other services, I don't need a grammar checker (generally...), there is a spell checker built-in to Opera (which, again, I don't need)
Maybe you don't like grammar checking, but it's nice to have the option. As for spell checking, it's a lot less useful when it hasn't been trained with all the words I've taught the native spell checker. I meant really, why would I want to have to teach it twice that MSDP isn't a misspelling, and do the same for every other word? Why for the love of buddha can't it simply use the native spell checker offered to all apps?
Opera can send you straight to MW.com for dictionary/thesaurus or Wikipedia for encyclopedia
Right, but it can't use the native dictionary/thesaurus already installed on my machine, and which also goes to wikipedia and online resources all at once. Why does it have to be different and not behave the same as all the other native apps that aren't badly ported?
and I don't know what "text manipulation" services you're talking about; the ones that show up in the services menu for me are the same that show up in Safari's services menu.
I take it you haven't installed any services that operate on text, like something to fix those terrible line endings left by notepad, or to replace smart quotes with straight ones, or to automatically change a URL into a proper bibliography citation? I use them heavily, but last check they still didn't work at all in Opera.
I'm sure better Mac OS X integration will come in time; it already looks like a native Mac app. More so than Firefox, at any rate.
I put in feature requests to fix the problem, wow, forever ago. It just doesn't seem to be a priority there. It is too bad because I do like it on Windows. It's about the same as Safari on Windows, just not there.
Thanks for the correction; I've updated the story.
And how do you like Simon's Rock? :) (Beautiful place. I'll be up at a nearby YMCA camp several weeks from now.)
timothy
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
No, but I hear it's a good webserver.
Its a decimal system, 10.6 is the same as 10.60 and a newer version than 10.11. jesus
Thanks for the correction; I've updated the story.
And how do you like Simon's Rock? :) (Beautiful place. I'll be up at a nearby YMCA camp several weeks from now.)
timothy
The opening line of the summary, "Four short months after Opera 10.5", suffers from the same issue (as in, it was actually 10.50, not 10.5). Might as well point that out as well.
It's true; their days are numbered, and their attempts to do silly things like add webservers to their browser suggest that they know that very well.
Opera should be:
a) Open-sourcing their browser and making money from extras like T-shirts and manuals and other silly crap like that, which kids with browsers will buy.
b) Working real hard on a totally new, advanced, streamlined, user-friendly browser for the semantic web.
and I'm on the verge of changing browsers. I paid for Opera back when the choice was between IE, Netscape, and Opera. Been using Opera as my main browser, and very happy with it, since then... must be quasi 10 years now. I'm very sad to see Opera dropping the ball that bad, and not fixing it:
- basically, 10.x versions are much lower quality than 9.x and before. An occasional hiccup can be understood, but 10.x is kinda old by now, there have been several point releases, and the issues that bother me still are there.
- broken feature 1: mouse gestures. One a large screen, with the mouse set for high velocity and high acceleration, mouse gestures don't register 9 out of 10 times. Chrome does not have that issue. It's probably kinda easy to fix (9.x has the issue, but not as badly).
- broken feature 2: autoscroll. 10.x goes out of autoscroll after a (random) handful of seconds. I've taken to copy-pasting URLs of long documents into Opera 9x, but that's cumbersome.
- broken feature 3: Opera Link keeps overwriting my main PCs bookmarks with stuff from PCs I haven't touched in ages. I'm back to synching bookmarks with backups and restore, and re-doing the rest (custom searches...) by hand.
- broken feature 4: cursor in text boxes. I routinely have issues getting my cursor back into rich-text edit boxes. I actually had the problem right now, and had to click on my comment's title then tab back into my text... this is cumbersome after a while.
- Broken feature 4: some sites that used to work perfectly no longer do. Hotmail is the main one, ZD sites are kinda screwy (the comments section)
I'm a bit disheartened. I've been a Opera fan and advocate for long, and now I feel they've dropped their focus on code quality to chase feature checklists and performance benchmarks. I personnaly don't care if my browser does WebM, or if it's 50% faster at javascript, if I can't use Hotmail, synch my PCs, scroll pages, and otherwise navigate with my mouse. These have been bugs since 10.0 beta, I've reported them, Opera hasn't moved on them.
I used to recommend Opera, I no longer do, and after enduring 10.x for months, I'm ready to leave, too. Chrome's mouse gestures and autoscroll work fine on my PC, as do Hotmail and text boxes...
The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
I don't know what RefControl does, but Opera does all the others right out the box, no clicking to install them needed, the Opera versions are much more flexible too.
...they fucking removed options that I prefer. I want the tab bar to go away if I only have one tab open. GIVE ME MY SCREEN SPACE! Also, let me get rid of the background image of the speed dial.
That said, unlike past upgrades which made changes that can only be characterized as "feeling different", I noticed no negative ones this time around. Feels a bit more stable and a little more spry.
I still want to have the tab bar hide though.
I take it you haven't installed any services that operate on text, like something to fix those terrible line endings left by notepad, or to replace smart quotes with straight ones, or to automatically change a URL into a proper bibliography citation? I use them heavily, but last check they still didn't work at all in Opera.
No? I use a text editor for that...can't think of why you'd need them in a browser, but sure, I can see why having to use a text editor instead of doing it right in your browser would be annoying. Unfortunately, I can't tell you if they work, only that some services (potentially not the ones you want) work.
I want tabs arranged vertically. Period. Can't get that with Opera as far as I know. In Firefox, just instal verttabbar extension and you got a usable interface.
That and the combo of AdBlock, betterprivacy, flashblock, ghostery, and TACO.
Give me these things and I will consider leaving Firefox.
I'll bite.
NoScript: disable scripting and enable it selectively using the F12 "site preferences" shortcut.
AdBlockPlus: You can get various urlfilter.ini if you really want to. I really dont need this, just block the most annoying ones with right-click:block_content. Some sites need the "normal" advertising, and once you block the top-10, you don't have much to complain about. Anyway, I will give you that point.
Flashblock: Here. Myself I just "enable plugins" (F12 again) on sites I want. *And* you can block the flash content with the normal "block content" too.
Firebug: Meh. Have you worked with dragon fly?
RefControl: Hmpf. F12, disable "send referrer information". Maybe it is just me, but I never needed to spoof referrers.
And yes, I use every one of these extensions on firefox, because it is not there as default. And some more. In a *memory-limited VM* just so it does not goes haywire and swaps the hell out of my current apps to oblivion. Lucky me.
eliphas
As a mathematician, I fail to see your point.
For whatever reason, Opera 10.60.6386 64-bit on Ubuntu 10.04LTS would not connect to any place on the Internet for me, I had to downgrade back to 10.11 to get Opera working again, I filed a bug report but I don't know how helpful that will be, I don't use proxies, I don't have any special setup.
Oh god, another extension.
To do this, this, or this? Meh.
eliphas
I installed it and don't see the improvement or fuss. I can run FF side by side and load the same page and FF wins. I even click refresh on Opera first then mouse over to click refresh on FF and FF still wins.
Whatever...
jsut athnoer menagiensls ltitle psrhae for you to dcoede. Why do we wtsae our tmie dnoig tihs?
Unable to duplicate here
"Champagne for my real friends - and real pain for my sham friends!" http://ericblade.postalboard.com/
You could bug report "Opera Mac doesn't use the native spell checker built into the operating system". :)
"Champagne for my real friends - and real pain for my sham friends!" http://ericblade.postalboard.com/
Right click on Tab Bar, Tabbar Placement, Top, Botton, Left, Right...
Move the tab bar to the left or right side.
"Champagne for my real friends - and real pain for my sham friends!" http://ericblade.postalboard.com/
There's a newer, nicer looking Flashbock-like feature in Opera as of 10.50, On-Demand Plug-in
I think you're missing the big picture. The Mac port of Opera is very poorly designed -- with lots of really minor issues which, all added up, make the experience of using Opera on the mac worse than even Firefox. Look at Chrome for a better port -- they made a lot of effort to ensure that Chrome blended in well with the Mac environment. The result is very good -- to the point that Chrome looks and feels like a native browser.
Opera has had a Mac port for a long time now, so filing a bug report about a minor issue like not using the built-in spellcheck seems pointless to me -- Opera seems to not care about the little issues which stands out like a sore thumb to people who have actually sat down and tried using Opera on the Mac.
Right click on the tab bar, click customize, click appearance. Under placement, select right or left. I swear, I'm sure that Opera had that back when it included ads... which was a fair while back now.
As for the other things, you can block ads (you might even be able to use adblock scripts, I'm not sure), flash, javascript and cookies, all without ever having to bother with addons. I've no idea about ghostery though since I've no real idea about what you use it for, and have never tried to do anything like that in Opera.
Will you consider leaving firefox now?
No actually it does not. Look a little closer. Opera aligns the right side both inside and outside the block quote rather than indenting both left and right.
If you're doing browser sniffing you're already doing it the wrong way.
The right way is object detection using client-side JavaScript, but there are a couple cases where object detection fails. One of them is figuring out whether the mouse cursor position includes the scroll value or not.
...and Firefox continues to be far superior as a general browser thanks to the available extensions.
For some this is awesomely true. For a lot of people, it's extra hassle to find, maintain, and sync them across their machines, plus there's potential for security risks and stability problems.
There is no reason for anyone to continue using proprietary browsers such as Opera or IE.
Opera has a better interface. It is more lean. It's a smaller download. For most people all the functionality is right there ready to go. It's less likely to be the butt of a security problem than the browsers with a bigger marketshare.
Until then, please no more Opera stories...just let it die in peace.
Then watch Firefox 'innovations' come to a screeching halt.
"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
"All it says, as far as I can tell, is that it should be indented."
It used to be indented on both sides in earlier versions of Opera.
Need Mercedes parts ?
"Not trolling, I'm trying to figure out what practical benefit Opera has for its users."
I've used only Opera since version 3 or so. What I find when I try to use any other browser now is that just doing my work takes longer because of all the refinements Opera has.
Need Mercedes parts ?
I want tabs arranged vertically. Period. Can't get that with Opera as far as I know
Strange since I have been having my tabs arranged vertically in opera since I got a widescreen monitor.
Let me see. Right click on the tab bar, placement left.
I'd hate to sniff Internet Explorer 3, that thing must be getting pretty rotten by now...
Exactly it was the ad version that left a strange feeling with generations of users I guess. I use ff, safari, camino and a shareware browser called icab (icab.de) but have never gone back to Opera.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
I use Firefox, but I acknowledge that Opera is very, very good. It's super-fast, extremely customizable and powerful out-of-the-box. The bad points of Opera are the obscurity of some of its most useful functions. They are not so easy to manage/find as in Firefox (eg. install AdBlock vs download adblock.ini manually). But Google is your friend: Anything you want for Opera, just Google it. e.g.: AdBlock+Opera, FlashBlock+Opera, greasemonkey+Opera... If some of these features were easier to manage, I'd probably switch to Opera. Opera's widgets are mostly useless. There's a great amount of games, weather/earthquake-checkers, translators, etc, but Browser-tweaking widgets are lacking. My 2 Cts.
2019 is going to be the year of Linux on the desktop.
Looks like you are clueless, buddy.
I put in feature requests to fix the problem, wow, forever ago.
If your tone was anything like what it's been in these comments, I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was deleted or marked as troll.
Funnyhacks - Wierd, unusual, and fun hacks
Perhaps, but who cares?
Opera, because if their users notice less sites work they will leave.
Let those sites break.
I agree.
Sites should display identically on every browser
Impossible, and imho not necessary, but I'm not into the teh-interwebs-is-an-application-shit.
and adhere to all standards
You can use standards and still break things. Since an old browser don't support the latest standards. Eventually one reason to check the version.
not utilizing any browser qwirks.
Agreed.
If they don't they are badly designed pages
Or the opposite, not designed sources of Information.
plain and simple. It's not the browser's responsibility to compensate for an incompetent web developer.
True.
I liked it quite a bit. I graduated three years ago, still like to advertise it in my sig.
Simon's Rock College
Why should I care about a non-extensible browser that does some artificial benchmarks a millisecond faster? Not trolling, I'm trying to figure out what practical benefit Opera has for its users.
I don't have an answer there.
But the browser which does the artificial benchmarks fastest is most likely Chrome.
However in real-life I think Opera and maybe the IE9 beta (atleast some article claimed something about it ..) may be better candidates.
Reasoning being that Chrome may be faster with one tab running on it's own but since each tab is a process I assume it takes up a little more resources making others eventually catch up in the long run when used as most people use their browser.
Eventually that may be wrong though in case Chrome simply stops its hidden tabs from executing and others doesn't.
You don't have to care.
I care about Opera news since I believe it's the best browser, eventually together with Chrome which I can't say I have used.
Safari 4 has become waaaay better than Safari 2 though, but then Safari 2 sucked balls. Most likely more than even IE6.
Firefox feels very slow imho, not in benchmarks but then actually using it with multiple tabs and so on.
Tested on FF, Opera, Chrome, and IE8. The only difference in rendering the blockquote appears to be based on font and relative sizing, determining at which point the text wraps and how far over it is when it does so.
Opera 10.60 is still roughly twice as fast as Firefox 4.0b1, and less aggressive gobbling memory than either Firefox or Chrome (the hog) on average.
You generally only need extensions if something's already broken; on Opera, you can load up an ad blocking filter+CSS element hider, enable/disable both per-site, enable cookies/JS/etc on a per-site basis, and run many but-not-all user javascript. All of which require 'extensions' on Firefox.
It's also widely accepted to be the most standards compliant browser on virtually any comparative time frame, and also typically gives equal treatment to all supported OSes, so there are lots of reasons to use it and enjoy it.
People seem to like to complain about Opera, like they like to complain about XP x64. They heard about it once and so it just must absolutely be horrible, because giving it a real chance is too much work.
The last time I had any rendering/formatting problems was with old buggy javascript layout in 2006. Those were with Opera 9 beta(ish) I think? By 9.5 the problems (on minor, entirely non-public code) were gone again. And now (as in, for all of recent memory), like most browsers, you can report websites that don't work directly (and can post code snippets on the forums, IIRC).
"A Goddess rarely smiles for she is forced by others to be an island unto herself." - Zephiris
Really? I couldn't see that specified in your link. Perhaps if you'd included the text that stated that in a blockquote to accompany your link it would help!
If a specific amount of margin is really desired after an element then the author should specify it.
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
Can you quote the exact parts of any specs that lead you to believe this is an error.
Obviously the two renderings are different, but that doesn't necessarily imply that Opera (or Firefox) is incorrect. The HTML specification alone does not make many requirements on specific visual rendering, if you want specific visual rendering you need to also detail what CSS is being used. If Opera is not handling that CSS correctly then you have a bug, if it's default style rules are merely different from Firefox than that isn't really a bug.
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
I use Opera on my Nokia mobile phone, and it's great. It is significantly faster than the built in browser, and makes it easier to do simple things like clearing the cache and access privacy and other settings.
m.opera.com
kgo!
Then explain how I can, with a single click, allow some scripts but NOT others and have it do so easy peasy? Because while Opera may indeed have some sort of adblocking (I've found since Opera is proprietary it is nearly all bad hacks) comparing its allow/disallow to NoScript is just a bad joke. And does their adblock keep ads from being downloaded, or just displayed? And no Proxies, because that isn't a tool for Opera, that is a bad hack that affects the entire OS.
Lets just be honest here folks, and that includes you Opera fanboys as well. Opera does some things better, hell just about every tool out there does at least something better. But Opera is like Apple in that you take what you get and like it, or you get lost. You can hack around the problem, but in the end that's just what it is...hacks.
And while I'm sure there are a few guys that care about the fastest whatever on the block, my FF can ALREADY render pages as fast as my cable will allow, and do so without worrying about bad scripts. I'm sorry but I just don't get this "we're the fastest" ePeen race that has been developing lately. Unless your machines are ancient (which I will admit that Opera runs better on old shit) is there really anybody sitting there with a stopwatch complaining because their browser took an extra 1/34 of a second or something?
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Link on how a <blockquote > works
And on Lines and paragraphs:
Given that <blockquote> is supposed to have line breaks before and after, rendering a different level of whitespace seems incorrect. The fact that it follows completely different behavior from every other situation (which it renders like Gecko, Webkit, Trident, etc except when within <td> and </td> tags, it is a very obvious bug that they have refused to patch (I told them about it, got an autoreply from their bug intake, and no response. They have no public bug tracker.)
Here's to encoding version numbers into a form that looks like a decimal value, but is really just a series of distinct values separated by periods. Next up, how to encode the version in octal.
"They don't have the google ad revenue that Mozilla has. "
Actually, they make the money exactly same way, every default search engine on Opera (which you can add more) makes money for Opera.
So, that is how they don't have to ask for money or display ads on browser. They also figured (a guess), more users mean more test and more compatibility and prestige for the real money making business which are devices.
There is nothing to beat Opera on devices, you can't pack Webkit and claim it is a mobile device browser. Nokia idiots did and we see the results each day, as Symbian owners. Thank God, Opera Mobile 10 kinda saved us.
There is a huge difference between Webkit/Chrome/Safari&Firefox development model and Opera. For Opera, to be able to run everywhere with minimal specs and to be customised for specific hardware needs is the number 1 important thing.
You can't compare it to Google Chrome for example, who happily ignored PowerPC Macs since its first release. Opera 10.6 does run on OS X 10.4.11/PPC and while on it, Opera 10.50+ means "Cocoa" Opera, converted from "Carbon". Just ask any developer what kind of insane task it is, not giving up on PowerPC Macs and 10.4.11 (OS X Tiger) running Macs while converting a carbon app to cocoa. That has something to do with the way browser is engineered.
You know what guaranteed Opera's future? Look around, every device/phone you see can run Opera. Not some $700 "smart" phone, I say everything with screen and something you can code on, even J2ME.
People like you also think Firefox days are numbered because Google can sell them out for Chrome. That is also some short sighted thing. Firefox can get "Bing" as sponsor or just rely on Big Blue even for code.
Which depends on Slashdotters and regular people hanging out together...
Where is that specified? The fact you are talking about "line breaks" probably indicates you don't really know what you are talking about. Block level elements may well have either "padding" and/or "margin" but certainly do not have "line breaks" before and after them as part of their formatting.
Quite the opposite I expect, it sounds like a concious decision. I think it's reasonable to decide that white space is at a premium within a table and that a default style that employs it more economically may make sense.
If Opera ignores legitimate style rules you specifically set then that is a bug. If their default rules are different then that is merely a choice.
Of course that choice could be a bad one worth changing, but for that to be true stronger reasoning than "it looks different than other browsers" is needed.
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
After further inspection, it isn't an Opera bug, but that case does appear different, here's why.
Inspecting the elements in Opera vs. Chrome (FF and IE don't have 'built in' stuff), suggests that Opera defaults to a 10px margin-right, while Chrome defaults to a 40px margin-right, on the CSS regarding the blockquote, at least on 7chan/hi/.
Live-editing the CSS to 40px (lovely Opera feature), makes it render identical.
The 'user agent style sheet' is explicitly left up to the browser, and most things say if you -don't- want the margins and padding left up to the browser, you're supposed to reset with margin:0, padding: 0.
For sites where small layout elements are emphasized in such a way...did nobody notice (or report this to the site owners) in the last 6+ years or so?
The specification doesn't mandate that a browser do anything other than accept the tag. It doesn't specify how, when, or why it does or doesn't render it. The site(s) in question should be relying on browser-independent behavior, including -probably- not using blockquotes in such a way, when it's deprecated.
"A Goddess rarely smiles for she is forced by others to be an island unto herself." - Zephiris
The standards at Opera are way too high for amateurs and lots of code would be rejected for not being tight, not being CPU agnostic, not being platform agnostic, "breaks a feature which our partner needs", "not allowed within idea of Opera"...
Why don't you try to understand the idea behind Opera browser first? A tip for you: No developer who actually codes meaningful stuff for Firefox called Opera to open the source since they seem to have an idea why it is closed source.
It is a browser which has its own way to get developed and as long as it is standards compliant, adopts new standards fast, it is not your problem whether it is open or not.
So you're prepared to criticize Opera for their (allegedly) poor quality Mac port but aren't prepared to actually file a bug report or make any attempt to bring your dissatisfaction to their attention? Hell, you could have filed a bug report with Opera in less time then it took you to complain about it on Slashdot.
I may agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to face the consequences of saying it.
I like it because of its right click->Validate feature, which sends the cached copy of the current page to the w3 validator.
There's a Firefox add-on called Page Validator that does that.
Space game using normal deck of cards: http://BattleCards.org
I tried that; never could get it working properly. Either way it's an add-on for a feature that's built in to Opera.
Helpful, non-patronizing, non-worshipping, factual, and neutral? I swear, you Opera trolls are worse than Apple fanbois. Go get laid... you seem to be suffering from sexual frustration.
From some people's point of view, filing a bug report for a feature like using the built in spell check is like filing a bug report with Ford suggesting they add a glove box to the front of the vehicle. It's a feature that Mac users expect from a native Mac application -- if it's not there then many Mac users will just drag the app to the bin.
I do agree that people should file reports for bugs, but there are some types of bugs which shouldn't happen at all in a production release. The fact Chrome does pretty well (despite only launching recently) suggest that there needs to be some changes in the direction of Mac development at Opera. For example, actually employing Mac OS X usability experts to polish up the GUI would be a good first step.
I haven't looked at the developer edition of opera however I think it still has a lot of catching up to do. I just gave it a run by opening it up and loading www.html5test.com and unfortunately for me I won't be using this to develop on.
Lack of drag and drop makes it unusable for my development needs.
As a comparison:
Chrome 5.0.375.99 gives me 197 with 7 bonus points.
Chrome 6.0.453.1 dev which I'm currently using gives me 220 with 10 bonus points
Opera 10.60 gives me 159 with 7 bonus points
Firefox 3.6.6 gives me 139 with 4 bonus points
I know some people might see this as irrelevent however those people aren't pioneers that need the latest browsers anyway. If you find a browser that gets an even higher score please let me know!
Perhaps, but who cares? Let those sites break.
It's something that Microsoft or Mozilla can say, but definitely not Opera - not with their single-digit market share worldwide.
(though e.g. in Russia, you'd better make sure your website looks right and proper in Opera, where it tops the list at 32%!)
Why is this voted down so much?
We do! I swear, I totally hung out with a "normal" last week! :-P
>>>No actually it does not. Look a little closer. Opera aligns the right side both inside and outside the block quote rather than indenting both left and right.
A lot of sites "break" because they detect Opera and then feed it garbage code.
So adjust your settings to "mask as firefox", which causes the site to send proper code, and the page renders perfectly.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
Include an icon that says "This will not render properly on IE6 or IE7. Please upgrade." Basically the same thing Youtube is doing.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
Had I actually gone, I would have graduated more than 15 years ago; I had the paperwork, started the essays, but was talked out of it by the anticipated cost. A cousin of mine went, though (even longer ago), was very happy with the place.
timothy
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
No.
6 11.
So you're prepared to criticize Opera for their (allegedly) poor quality Mac port but aren't prepared to actually file a bug report or make any attempt to bring your dissatisfaction to their attention?
While the previous poster may not have filed a bug report, I certainly did, almost a decade ago now. I filed several in fact. But they haven't done anything about the subject, so yeah, when someone says Opera for the Mac is great, I bring up where it is deficient. Maybe some of the developers will notice, or at least people will begin to understand why it has such low install share on the Mac.
Bah, my bad for not previewing while using angle brackets.
6 < 11
60 > 11
I'm using 10.60 and I see whitespace before and after the blockquote. You appear to be wrong in this case.
There is no knowledge that is not power.
Currently only the wealthiest students are paying the sticker price at good private colleges. So if you are not wealthy, it is best to apply first and decide where to go after getting your financial aid offer. Simon's Rock is unusual because it offers merit scholarships, so even wealthy students may get a discount. Many prestigious universities do not give out merit scholarships.
Simon's Rock College
epiphany in Debian supported WebM long before this.
About 10 years ago I used Opera (the adware version even!) because I liked it so much.
But now there are so many firefox extensions that improve my browsing experience so much, that no other browser has achieved.
I use
- Treestyle tab (REPLACE tabs with a vertical side tree)
- Small menu (put the menu bar in a single "Menu" item.
- Stop/Reload button: replace stop and reload button to one single button
- Scrapbook: Capture webpages and *graphically* remove some DOM elements (my wife loves this to save recipes!)
- Downthemall,Greasemonkey, among others.
In my experience, to achieve a lot of this functionality in Opera (or other browsers) you need to lose a lot of time fiddling with the configuration. In firefox i just download and install a plugin.
Granted, I hate a lot of firefox things (freaking huge resource hog, why do I need to restart Firefox after installing an extension, I don't have to do it with Chrome) but until now, the benefits of using Firefox have outnumbered the drawbacks.
Oh! and I remember the really nice feature of Opera of having the keys Z and X to navigate a page forward and back.
Does anyone know of a Firefox extension allowing you to do that?
Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
Not trolling, I'm trying to figure out what practical benefit Opera has for its users.
For me: Opera Mobile. Granted, I haven't tried those new Fennec and Webkit mobile browsers that the whippersnappers use nowadays, but Opera Mobile is amazingly good even with most sites that rely heavily on Javascript. And it syncs its bookmarks with Opera on my [Linux] computers. (Unlike some other poster, I have never had a single problem with this sync feature, though I do wish it would sync custom searches as well.)
That said, I do use Chrome more on the computer. Opera may be faster in those artificial benchmarks, but Chrome feels faster.
Whatever gave you that idea? Opera was build from the ground up to handle real sites with non-standard code. It support all kinds of non-standard crap. If Opera had really refused to render sites that are not 100% standards compliant, no sites would be working at all.
So there is no "nazi like adherence to standards", nor are they trying to force changes. They are being pragmatic and building the browser to work with real sites.
Once again you seem to fail miserably at reflecting reality in your comment. The problem wasn't that Microsoft shipped a browser with Windows. It was that Microsoft abused its OS dominance to destroy the browser market.
Of course, your comment also ignores the fact that Google, Mozilla and several other companies backed the complaint, but for some reason, you are only whining about Opera...
Why? As long as it doesn't affect the browsing it's irrelevant for you. You won't even notice that it's there unless you actually activate it.
If you want control, it's easy to use a separate client. Opera supports torrents because it makes it more convenient for most people
Most of the world is still on shitty connections. In fact, huge parts of the US is still on shitty connections. This is especially true if you use public wifi, for example. Most of the world will definitely benefit from Opera Turbo, so now you are just being narrow-minded.
Faster than what? It's noticeably faster than Firefox.
Opera's tab handling has always been superior to that of other browsers. Opera had proper tabbed browsing back in 2000 or so.
Opera did invent or pioneer most of the things you see in modern browsers. Popup blocking, tabbed browsing, address bar searches, sessions, full page zoom, speed dial/top sites, memory cache, private data management, etc.
Who implements it better is a matter of taste. Who implemented it first or pioneered it is not.
Clever signature text goes here.
Opera is currently faster than Chrome, though.
Then who would the other browsers be stealing features from? :(
Also, Opera isn't going away any time soon. It reached 100 million users a couple of months ago, and just the other day they announced 120 million users.
Clever signature text goes here.
Hmm, where did you see that? The last benchmark I saw posted to Slashdot put Chrome ahead of it. I'm sure Chrome and Firefox will continue to steal features from each other, and from new extensions people write... No real worries there.
The 120 million users included every mobile device that had it factory-installed, I imagine... This is not a choice educated users are making, they don't even know about it more than likely! I use Opera Mini on old phones that don't have a better alternative available, but that's not at all the same as desktop use.
All of this misses the primary point, however...it's proprietary. Until they release their source code under a decent license, it cannot even be considered as a viable option. They've seemingly tried hard to adhere to standards so I have to respect that. And competition is good, as long as it is open competition, not this closed, potentially insecure, binary-only nonsense.
Opera on Mac, around 60 tabs opens (and restored upon startup) - start time - 12 secs, memory consumption 742MB. Firefox on random platform - start time 30+ seconds, no tabs restored from previous session, loading the same tabs open in Opera - memory consumption over 2G. Thank you Firefox, take your shit and go back home.
Or just use Camino.
Opera just announced that they have more than 120 million users (up from 100+ million just a couple of months ago). Looks like they are doing just fine to me!
Clever signature text goes here.
Version numbers easily get confused for decimals when they consist of only two parts. ;)
Opera has more than 120 million users across the world. "No one"? Heh.
Clever signature text goes here.
Actually, Opera 10.60 is currently the fastest at artificial benchmarks.
Clever signature text goes here.
What's the id number of the bug you filed?
/greger
What a terrible example. AdBlock is not very discoverable at all, since you have to download a third party app (extension)! On the other hand, Opera has content blocking right there in the context menu. You don't need to download any .ini files manually.
Widgets aren't supposed to tweak the browser. They are supposed to be separate applications. They are nothing like extensions, so it's pointless to treat them like they were.
Clever signature text goes here.
When was the last time you used a new version of Opera?
Treestyle tab: I don't think it will show a tree, but you can put your tabs on the left or right side
Small menu: My Opera UI has a Menu button at the top left and tabs to the right of it. There is no Windows title bar (ie it looks like Chrome)
Stop/Reload button: It is a single button
There are a lot of things you can do in Opera if you take a few minutes to look at the options but it seems a lot of people just see the default layout and run away. For the longest time I couldn't stand having my tabs at the top of the screen because I had been using Opera for so long with them at the bottom. I couldn't get Firefox or IE to replicate Opera's tab handling but I could customize it quite a bit in Opera.
Here's a screenshot of the top left corner of Opera on my system: http://i47.tinypic.com/x5tw77.png
Not more quirky than other browsers.
All browsers have bugs. You are just being overly critical about bugs in Opera because you design for other browsers first and unconsciously ignore the bugs there because you are used to them.
Clever signature text goes here.
I think they're lying. Downloads != users, and browser share on one biased site != users, but it's easy to pretend that they are equal, if it suits your business.
Simple.
* Internet Explorer - historically slow with many exploits
* Safari - Sorry, I use Windows and no, I don't want iTunes
* Chrome - Yeah, I'm not giving any more data to Google than I need to
* Firefox - Slow, memory leaking, tightly associated with open sores fanboys
Therefore, Opera is the logical choice.
I think you're missing the big picture. The Mac port of Opera is very poorly designed -- with lots of really minor issues which, all added up, make the experience of using Opera on the mac worse than even Firefox. Look at Chrome for a better port -- they made a lot of effort to ensure that Chrome blended in well with the Mac environment. The result is very good -- to the point that Chrome looks and feels like a native browser.
Opera has had a Mac port for a long time now, so filing a bug report about a minor issue like not using the built-in spellcheck seems pointless to me -- Opera seems to not care about the little issues which stands out like a sore thumb to people who have actually sat down and tried using Opera on the Mac.
I think you're missing the big picture. The Mac port of Opera is very poorly designed -- with lots of really minor issues which, all added up, make the experience of using Opera on the mac worse than even Firefox. Look at Chrome for a better port -- they made a lot of effort to ensure that Chrome blended in well with the Mac environment. The result is very good -- to the point that Chrome looks and feels like a native browser.
Opera has had a Mac port for a long time now, so filing a bug report about a minor issue like not using the built-in spellcheck seems pointless to me -- Opera seems to not care about the little issues which stands out like a sore thumb to people who have actually sat down and tried using Opera on the Mac.
I think you're missing the big picture. The Mac port of Opera is very poorly designed -- with lots of really minor issues which, all added up, make the experience of using Opera on the mac worse than even Firefox. Look at Chrome for a better port -- they made a lot of effort to ensure that Chrome blended in well with the Mac environment. The result is very good -- to the point that Chrome looks and feels like a native browser.
Opera has had a Mac port for a long time now, so filing a bug report about a minor issue like not using the built-in spellcheck seems pointless to me -- Opera seems to not care about the little issues which stands out like a sore thumb to people who have actually sat down and tried using Opera on the Mac.
I use the Linux version which I imagine is quite similar to the Mac and it works exactly the same as Windows version on latest release (before this one probably).
If its just look and feel then yes that is an issue but one that is easily overcome. I don't expect them to rewrite the UI to please an audience that will just look for reasons why Apple's Safari is better anyway TBH.
Its similar to the Nintendo problem. Nintendo console owners buy Nintendo consoles for Nintendo. Other companies can release for it but people will always purchase Nintendo first that buy that console and so there is less money for other developers on Nintendo than other consoles. Even with the Wii, Nintendo are doing orders of magnitude better on software sales than the other companies trying to get a slice of the pie.
Same with Apple from my experience with Apple users. Everytime you ask did you try such and such an app out, they will say yes but and have a flaw with it and wait for Apple and only use it until Apple come up with something similar. It is a minority audience on Mac for anything without an Apple logo.
In my experience, to achieve a lot of this functionality in Opera (or other browsers) you need to lose a lot of time fiddling with the configuration. In firefox i just download and install a plugin.
Do you HONESTLY believe that having to download an extension to get a certain functionality is bettern that just turning the build in functionality on or setting it up according to your needs?
As for your examples:
- In Opera you can put the tabbar wherever you want. I have mine at the bottom, but you can put it left or right, too. This is not the same as a tree layout, bout anyway.
- Standard since Opera 10.50 (?)
- Opera offers you a lot of options in terms of button arrangement and functionality. I don't know off hand if a combined stop/reload button exists, but I would guess it does. Just right-lcik on a bar, select "change" (or whatever it is called in English) select the button tab and navigation and off you go.
- no idea
- Userscripts work (without having to install Greasmonkey). Not those scripts that use functionality that's specific for FF, Chrome or whatever, but I have several scripts running in Opera.
Don't know if that is Opera problem or not :D
Anyway I saw a commend dissing Opera Unite and thought I'd throw in where I use it.
I use it in work where when providing remote support on our software, we have to use whatever that companies network providers will allow us to use to access their network.
A lot of the time this is VNC or some Logmein variation that cannot map my network drives.
So if I write a quickfix to a problem, I have to roll it out. what the guys here did before was purchase an account at drivehq.com. I showed them Opera Unite and that I could after providing my password, browse to the rollout folder on my machine and download the update from the users web browser (any web browser).
I could then shut down my file share in Unite and so the rest of the time, nobody can even attempt to hack into it to get source code (if they could even find it).
Opera usage is calculated on usage, not downloads. For the desktop browser it's based on the number of users querying for an upgrade. So if you have turned off "automatically check for updates" you won't even be counted.
120M is under-reporting, not over-reporting.
Leaving technicalities aside, the point I was trying to make is that it's not so straightforward to tweak/add functionality to Opera. You just re-affirmed it.
Have a good day.
2019 is going to be the year of Linux on the desktop.
Not trolling, I'm trying to figure out what practical benefit Opera has for its users.
For me personally, for fairly normal browsing requirements on a 2004-vintage Windows PC:
IE7/8: far too slow. Takes about 5 seconds just to open a new blank tab.
Firefox: faster than IE, but still really struggles with lots of tabs are open. Especially annoying that if one tab is slow to load, it slows down everything.
Chrome: Much better performance than either of the above. However, seems to crash rather a lot, and seems to have a bug that means it intermittently does not respond to Windows' "Tile Windows Horizontally" / "Tile Windows Vertically" commands (right-click on the taskbar.) As I use this feature rather a lot, it is really annoying to have to reposition
Opera: Similar performance to Chrome, but doesn't crash and doesn't have the windowing bug.
So I use Opera as my normal browser, with IE or Firefox waiting in the wings if I find a site doesn't work nicely with it.
sites should not display identically on every browser, but every browser should adhere to the documented standard.
"Champagne for my real friends - and real pain for my sham friends!" http://ericblade.postalboard.com/
Those who run "noscript" are seriously missing out on a lot of the Internet.
"Champagne for my real friends - and real pain for my sham friends!" http://ericblade.postalboard.com/
Firefox without any extensions is a pile of poop. Firefox with extensions is an overly bloated Frankenbrowser looking pile of poop.
"Champagne for my real friends - and real pain for my sham friends!" http://ericblade.postalboard.com/
- Treestyle tabs - either open the Sidebar, and use the "Windows" sidebar panel, or drag your tab bar to the left or right side.
- Small menu - default in Opera now, has been available since Opera 8 or 9, possibly earlier.
- Stop/Reload has been a single button since Opera 7, I think, maybe 8. I'd always configured the stop button to not be there anyway, prior, because .. really.. who needs it?
- Scrapbook: what?
- Greasemonkey - based on Opera's "UserJavascript" feature, which existed LONG before Greasemonkey.
- Downthemall - no idea, can't see wanting to use it, ever.
"Champagne for my real friends - and real pain for my sham friends!" http://ericblade.postalboard.com/
The result is very good -- to the point that Chrome looks and feels like a native browser./p>
Surely you are joking, Mr Surfer.
Chrome is very far from having a native Mac look. There are lots of little things, and some not so little. Firstly, the close button on each tab is on the right, unlike all real Mac applications which have them on the left (including Firefox). When you hover over them, they turn into a very plasticy, Windows XPish red, which is most un-mac-like. The tabs themselves are a colour which is not found in active OS X windows, and a shape which doesn't look like other Mac tabs.
In general, the interface is full of blue text links which should be buttons, this is also quite Windows-like.
In the preference panes, 'Basics" and "Personal Stuff" have a light grey background like other Mac apps, but the "Under the Bonnet" pane is back to a white background with nasty blue links again.
On the home page (your bookmarks or recently visited pages), again, the close buttons on the right instead of left, and drop down menus are clearly google roll-your-own.
No, I would say that Chrome is the least Mac-looking of the four major Mac browsers.
I found a User Javascript somewhere the other day that allows you to operate Wave -- which currently runs like molasses uphill in a cold michigan winter in Chrome -- reasonably properly in Opera .. and it's STUPIDLY FAST.
http://my.opera.com/sitepatching/blog/2010/02/05/ready-to-wave
"Champagne for my real friends - and real pain for my sham friends!" http://ericblade.postalboard.com/
To all the rest of us, "open source" is only useful if we are actually wanting to do something with the source. Do you actively participate in the development of every single open source thing you use?
"Champagne for my real friends - and real pain for my sham friends!" http://ericblade.postalboard.com/
If nobody uses Opera, then how is it the oldest surviving browser and the browser that all of the others have used as a reference for their own feature set?
It was a serious PITA to find out why my own User scripts were suddenly broken-beyond-repair. I could only find mention of it on ONE of the Opera blogs from ~6months prior to when they actually changed it.
Also, all the queries about broken UserScripts on the Opera boards were either unanswered or given completely wrong information.
So if flashblocker uses document.addEventListener, it needs to be changed to "window.addEventListener".
If you own a Nintendo Wii, then you use Opera.
I haven't checked the benchmarks but normally the latest version catch up quite well with the one it's replacing, and yeah, eventually catches the lead. But that most likely only last until someone else update their version so it doesn't matter much to me.
Some though are simply slower more or less the whole time, and Chrome usually ends up at top most of the times. Which is good enough for me.
I'm sure Chrome will pass Opera again if it has lost its lead atm.
And I rather have a decent surfing experience, as in switch tabs, open new ones with new pages, close them or end the whole browser session, restart the browser and have it respond as soon as I've launched it even if it loads tabs in the background, have it play youtube videos while using another tab and such than have it score 10% faster in rendering some java-script crap in a single tab.
I don't like the browser specific code as much as the next guy but sometimes you don't have a choice.
Why? Cause the browsers simply don't render the same, or don't adhere to standards. At the end of the day, if you need your pages to work on all browsers, you often need a little trick here and here.
Now, most of these tricks are done using other detections than the user-agent (actually most of these are just CSS)
I love Opera but I've never seen so many bugs in stable release as in this one. I'm using it on linux and I constantly have problems with flash and locked keyboard both at my home and work PCs. This is so anoying that I'm thinking of switching to another browser
NoScript: disable scripting and enable it selectively using the F12 "site preferences" shortcut.
Of course, NoScript does much more than disabling/enabling Javascript on a per-site basis.
AdBlockPlus: You can get various urlfilter.ini [fanboy.co.nz] if you really want to. I really dont need this, just block the most annoying ones with right-click:block_content. Some sites need the "normal" advertising, and once you block the top-10, you don't have much to complain about. Anyway, I will give you that point.
Indeed, you should, because Adblock does much more than that. Custom element hiding rules? Regular expressions? Filter list subscriptions? Opera does none of that.
RefControl: Hmpf. F12, disable "send referrer information". Maybe it is just me, but I never needed to spoof referrers.
Wow, good for you, then! I've encountered a handful of sites that DO need it, alas. Like it or not, RefControl is useful and does more than what Opera does.
Another useful Firefox extension I've come to rely upon a lot is RequestPolicy, BTW. Does Opera have anything like that? Just curious.
It's so customizable -- and yet you can't make it use Control Click (a VERY commonly used shortcut used by every other major browser out there) to open links in a new tab. When this issue was raised in the opera forums (alongside a request to make it possible, doesn't have to be default), opera fans basically basically GTFO'd the poster.
Opera is fanboy-only software. Which is why I pay no attention to it anymore.
There is no "fiddling", I just click "install"
and I'm done.
Don't get me wrong, I use Firefox as my primary browser (only ever using IE when I have to for work), but it's a little more fiddly than you make it out to be...
It's official. Most of you are morons.
AdBlock Plus is also important for preventing malware.
Flashblock is incredibly useful because it gives you a click to play button, and so many sites require flash.
It must be nice that you never needed to spoof referers, but the truth is that there's a lot of sites which work fine in all browsers which are locked to one browser.
Personally I've given up and gone Chrome, which has a working AdBlock Plus if you use Chrome/Chromium 6 (Chrome Dev Channel.) In case users didn't notice, firefox effectively spies on you by default too, by automatically redirecting searches to google. for instance if I try to accidentally load "firewall" instead of "http://firewall" then FireFox and Chrome alike will attempt to search for firewall rather than just going directly to the host on my local domain. (This is completely broken behavior, of course.)
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
wouldnt that still require browser-detection?
(i'd be annoyed if a website kept spouting 'will not render correctly in IE6, please upgrade' to me while browsing with chrome...)
and as noted before, most websites want as much users as possible, telling joe public to upgrade internet explorer (which poor joe doesnt even know about, he just clicks the blue internet icon) is a surefire way to confuse people and turn users away.
Now if i were to set up a website targetted at even a remotely tech-savy audience, i would drop IE support in a second, redirecting them at a 'please get a real browser' page, but that isnt a possibility for most websites
People, what a bunch of bastards
Who would probably tell them it's Opera at fault, and they should run Firefox...
Owning a Wii doesn't say you're using it. I've seen my fair share of Nintendo Wii's gathering dust at friends places, only to be used when there is a party going on.
Website owners already do that (turn people away) when they create sites that are non-dialup friendly.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
Completely acceptable load times. Again, I had tested different browsers when I had issues before and found differences in the page load times.
Not ready to make it my default browser again, but I am happy to say I won't be uninstalling it.
What the hell, I haven't a clue.
Anonymous comments are as pathetic as the anonymous "sources" that contaminate gutless journalism from the New York Time
If its just look and feel then yes that is an issue but one that is easily overcome. I don't expect them to rewrite the UI to please an audience that will just look for reasons why Apple's Safari is better anyway TBH.
Apple's Safari has the home court advantage, but there is lots of room for other players. Firefox has significant share on OS X. The idea that no matter how much work is done, Mac users won't use opera seems more of an excuse to me than anything. I try every major new version, then abandon it and move on because it doesn't support the native features of the OS upon which I rely.
If its just look and feel then yes that is an issue but one that is easily overcome. I don't expect them to rewrite the UI to please an audience that will just look for reasons why Apple's Safari is better anyway TBH.
I think your opinion here is just as wrong. There's plenty of money to go around for third party developers who actually write software for the Wii platform. The Wii is not just like every other platform either in the control schemes or in the user base. Companies that write for that control scheme and for that audience do well. Not so much those who instead tryto revamp a game designed for a different control scheme and a different audience or who write a game using their many years of experience but without rethinking their development for the Wii.
If your mindset is that OS X and OS X users re just like Windows and Windows users, you aren't going to do so well. And if you don't put the resources in to do it right, you'll fail. The same goes for the Wii. People that fail can claim it is because of brand loyalty, but to me that just rings hollow; an excuse for failure not a reason.
It is a minority audience on Mac for anything without an Apple logo.
iWork has about 20% of the Office suite install base on OS X, compared to MS Office's 80%. Lightroom has double Aperture's share on OS X. Final Cut is at what, 50%? So I guess my question is, what the hell are you talking about? What software is Apple selling where they are driving out all the non-Apple competitors on OS X? Even at much lower price points, the majority of OS X users aren't picking Apple software over third party software. Your theory sort of falls down there, doesn't it?
Having used both Xp x64 extensively and Opera somewhat less so I can say without a doubt that is a great relationship to describe, but not because they are good.
In my experience both XP x64 and Opera have the promise of great offerings, but in reality what they offer is of little to no practical value and all the 'broken' things that come with 'standards compliance' just don't really make it a browers (or OS) that 99.999999999% of the universe gives a shit about.
Its great that both of them can do cool things on paper, but no one cares because those cool things are largely irrelevant to the audience they appear to target.
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
1. No, Opera like most other browsers have "quirks mode" to deal with non-standard code, in particular when identifying as other browsers.
2. No, it's not better in Firefox. Only a Opera-bashing Firefox zealot would think so. It is implemented differently but that is not the same as "bad". "Decent firebug equivalent" is spoken by someone who have never ever even bothered firing up Dragonfly. FF is "customizable" if you install a bunch of extensions that slow down startup because it looks for updates, but the extensions break on the next update anyway...
3. Since Mozilla and Google had the same status as Opera in that case I guess they are "tattling" as well?
4. Are you reading what you are writing? In your second point you complained about an imagined lack of features and now it has too many? And I loved having Opera Turbo last weekend when my broadband went dead and I had to resort to 3G tethering. See, not everyone use their computer near high-speed wireless all the time.
5. Goes against the observation of a number of people.
Opera added tabbed browsing in 4.00 (June 2000), prior to that it used MDI (and was ridiculed for it by Mozilla fanboys who preferred the X11-oriented multi-window paradigm.) I and many others use mouse gestures all the time.
I guess you need a history lesson
In the case of IE, you can let the browser do the checking itself. (And yes, parsing comments is a very good contender for the most stupid thing ever.)
FF can ALREADY render pages as fast as my cable will allow,
Javascript performance has (almost) nothing to do with the speed of your cable. So basically, "render as fast as my cable will allow" doesn't make any sense.
You might say something like "the actual gain in performance is negligible for any real site."
As to the race, the idea is that by making the JS faster, your browser can handle more complex sites, and it will use fewer resources on all sites ("faster" = "less CPU time to do the same thing").
So if we are talking about using your computer to look at one webpage at a time, that only uses JS to do some form validation, then yeah, there probably isn't much point in super-optimizing the JS interpreter. But if we are talking about using a destop machine with several substantial programs running, or several tabs, or webpages doing crazy shit in JS, then the optimization of the JS interpreter starts to make a big difference between things being silk smooth and annoyingly laggy or even unusable.
By "first browser" I assume you mean "first final version." Chrome dev handles WebM just fine (this is from the google repo, btw, not a nightly).
Mod points: Guaranteed to remove your sense of humor.
Side effects may include gullibility and temporary retardation
I'd just like to speculate on this a second:
I suspect that one of the major reasons that Google is pushing chrome is to prep the market for Chrome-OS. (In fact, it seems perfectly obvious to me that this is what they are doing.) To that end, they probably are quite interested in developing a Chrome look and feel. Even if it doesn't quite fit the native platform.
Mod points: Guaranteed to remove your sense of humor.
Side effects may include gullibility and temporary retardation
Further more, some do use version numbers that are effectively decimals.
For example order the following versions:
1.11
1.2
1.1
I've seen some projects where the correct order would be 1.1, 1.11, 1.2, and others where the correct order is 1.1, 1.2, 1.11.
It varies significantly. Even having three components does not fix things. 1.1.5, 1.11.3, and 1.2.9 could be the correct order (albeit this sort of ordering is not common) or 1.1.5, 1.2.9, 1.11.3 could be the correct order.
One simply needs to be familiar with the scheme used by the software in question.
Stylish sheet to fix many problems in Slashdot's D3: https://gist.github.com/801524
Indeed. While many complain about abuses of javascript, I've seen several sites that use it as part of AJAX that really improve the experience. I would strongly advise that people browse using a javascript blocking blacklist, rather than a whitelist.
Stylish sheet to fix many problems in Slashdot's D3: https://gist.github.com/801524
Default skin is awful.
The best skin i can find is, ironically, a Chrome skin.
How would the users know it's that site that is broken, and not the browser?
Via the W3C validation buttons at the bottom of the page that the users can click and see that the site does adhere to standards (or *cough*slashdot*cough* doesn't).
No, Opera like most other browsers have "quirks mode" to deal with non-standard code, in particular when identifying as other browsers.
While Opera has to use quirks mode to display pages correctly, the other browsers simply display pages correctly.
No, it's not better in Firefox. Only a Opera-bashing Firefox zealot would think so. It is implemented differently but that is not the same as "bad". "Decent firebug equivalent" is spoken by someone who have never ever even bothered firing up Dragonfly. FF is "customizable" if you install a bunch of extensions that slow down startup because it looks for updates, but the extensions break on the next update anyway...
Fair enough, the quality of somethings can be subjective. Ad blocking however, and debuggers are not. Dragnfly is vastly inferior to Firebug, and Opera uses a similar mechanisim to Chrome to block ads, blocking them after they are received and preventing their display, while firefox allows you to block them from being received. Oh, and a bunch of extensions won't slow down firefox, nor will they break on the next update. Only a opera fanboi who loathes every other browser might think so. Also, does opera have torbutton yet? Thought not.
Since Mozilla and Google had the same status as Opera in that case I guess they are "tattling" as well?
Cept they didn't instigate it, and didn't have as much stake in it, and din't pay to champion their case. Having Mozilla and Google sign a petition for support for your case is not the same as having them be partners in a class action law suit, for an analogy.
Are you reading what you are writing? In your second point you complained about an imagined lack of features and now it has too many? And I loved having Opera Turbo last weekend when my broadband went dead and I had to resort to 3G tethering. See, not everyone use their computer near high-speed wireless all the time.
Opera misses out several key features, and implements useles features. Ain't no cognotive dissonance here.
Goes against the observation of a number of people.
Sure, le'ts thinks about this. A minority of people use opera, think it is faster, and stick with it. A majority of users try Opera, don't see a speed difference worth switching their current browser with well implemented addons and customizability, and don't end up using it. The people who thin opera is significantly faster than otherbrowsers are all opera users. There don't seem to be many claiming how much faster it is who have used it and the rest.
Opera added tabbed browsing in 4.00 (June 2000), prior to that it used MDI (and was ridiculed for it by Mozilla fanboys who preferred the X11-oriented multi-window paradigm.) I and many others use mouse gestures all the time.
I guess you need a history lesson
The fact that Opera says they included tabbed browsing, does not make it so.
See here for a history, where IE addons had tabs at least 3 years prior. They didn't fucking innovate anything.
"Not trolling, I'm trying to figure out what practical benefit Opera has for its users." - by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 04, @04:54PM (#32793748)
Not trolling, but IF this article on SPEED ALONE doesn't do it for you? How about looking @ the practical benefits of SECURITY for end-users also??
---
INTERNET EXPLORER 8.x VULNERABILITIES STATS:(07/05/2010)
http://secunia.com/advisories/product/21625/?task=advisories
Unpatched 31% (4 of 13 Secunia advisories)
---
FIREFOX 3.x VULNERABILITIES STATS:(07/05/2010)
http://secunia.com/advisories/product/25800/?task=statistics
Unpatched 9% (1 of 11 Secunia advisories)
----
GOOGLE CHROME 5.x VULNERABILITIES STATS:(07/05/2010)
http://secunia.com/advisories/product/30134/
Unpatched 0% (0 of 3 Secunia advisories)
---
OPERA 10.x VULNERABILITIES STATS:(07/05/2010)
http://secunia.com/advisories/product/26745/
Unpatched 0% (0 of 8 Secunia advisories)
---
"Read 'em, & weep..."
APK
P.S.=> That 0% unpatched known security vulnerabilities rating of Opera's above always tends to be consistently in that range (no bugs unpatched) month in & month out, for years now typically...
NOW, for SPEED also, & over time (Plus, to "get back on track" as to the topic @ hand here), historically? Well...
Opera leads there, & for the LONGEST TIME also, plus on most ALL FRONTS for things "web" (scripting AND std. HTML work)... here are some evidences of that, over time:
http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html
and
http://crave.cnet.co.uk/cnetuk/crave/software/0,39029471,49302491,00.htm
AND
http://nontroppo.org/timer/kestrel_tests/
(Opera "rocked the planet" in those cases, regarding speed... bigtime (& ESPECIALLY ON THE MOST USED PLATFORM THERE IS, BAR-NONE, FOR PC-COMPUTING: Windows!))... apk
Oh, that's cool! I've wanted that for a while. Does it work for opening up JavaScript based links, as well?
A community-oriented lyrics site
It can do it on simple JS links (the ones that directly do navigate() or similar), but I've seen it break on more complicated stuff.
"Why should I care about a non-extensible browser" - by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 04, @04:54PM (#32793748)
Opera IS "extensible", via its 'opera widgets' -> http://widgets.opera.com/
APK
P.S.=> Between that, & Opera's 0% unpatched known security vulnerabilities -> http://secunia.com/advisories/product/26745/ , I'd say most of what you're complaining about is moot... apk
Why would I actually WANT to visit a site that is doing "crazy shit in JS" anyway? More crazy shit is more risk of malware. Notice how JavaScript is becoming the ActiveX of today? No thanks, you can keep it. And as for "using less resources" again, why would I care? On my circa 2004 era 1.8Ghz Sempron with 1.5Gb FF is using a grand total of 2% CPU and 100Mb of RAM while nearly a dozen sites open, including some pretty heavy PC shopping sites that constantly update their sales.
Lets be honest folks, it ain't 1997 anymore. Most of us have duals and quads with assloads of RAM, that spend more time twiddling their thumbs than they do working. I have 7 programs besides FF running as well as music playing, and I'm averaging 9% CPU and have more than half my RAM free. What good is resources that aren't used? I'd rather have the web MY way, which is only allowing scripts I approve and with NO ads, and as I said sites load as fast as I can click. In the end all that matters to the user is "feel" and FF feels as fast as my cable, so honestly who cares if browser X loads 1/32th of a second faster, or uses a couple of Mb less when rendering some big bloated mess of JS?
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
the other browsers simply display pages correctly.
By what standard? Opera supports more CSS than most of them, and IE has a documented quirks mode of its own.
Cept they didn't instigate it
You are believing myths. The EU Commision instigated it, not Opera.
Dragnfly is vastly inferior to Firebug
No it is only different, and apparently that means "inferior" to you. I guess that is the basis of most of your attacks against Opera, thst it does things different and you do not like that.
The fact that Opera says they included tabbed browsing, does not make it so.
You are living in a fantasy world where absolutely nothing true about Opera can penetrate your thick skull. Live in ignorance and hate if you must.
See here for a history, where IE addons had tabs at least 3 years prior.
Here where? You forgot a link methinks.
A quick search reveals tabs were (natively) added to IE in IE 7, released long after that date. You could add it to IE 6 through the MSN Toolbar in 2005 (still after Opera) but you needed to use extensions to context menus. I cannot find any plugins prior to this that had it.
Maybe if you had been able to add links to Slashdot posts... ah but I can dream.
I'm talking about the Peacekeeper benchmark in my PC:
Opera is faster using ONE processor in a dual core setup.
Chrome not only is not faster than Opera 10.60, it uses BOTH processors without giving any real benefit for the wasted electricity.
YMMV.
We are Turing O-Machines. The Oracle is out there.