(you don't think any of them would "convert" otherwise? Relatively few Eastern Catholics don't change much / they are predominantly in places where Catholicism isn't dominating, any discouragement must also be avoided)
Indeed, one who believes it's hundreds of thousands... (and FYI, I'm pretty certain a mobile phone / app platform I have around has at least in the range of iOS or Android - we'll see if you can figure out which one yourself / do better than self-absorbed pundits)
Things like no married priests and stealing all the pagan holidays for themselves (christmas, etc) are much more recent than 2000 years
When looking at what can be known about my local paganism (and pre-Christian folk customs, generally) on one hand, and mainstream Christianity of X century (the time of "National Baptism" myth(1)) on the other...it's not at all clear which one is closer to present folk religion (at my place - one held very dear by the Vatican; and no wonder: officially one of very few strongly Catholic places in the EU (more than Italy), considering itself "the bulwark of Christianity"(2), from where the previous Pope was...).
Yes, basics of Abrahamic mythology (nothing exhaustive) are there, as well as story of Messiah - they are not the only ones though, and I can't really name any Church holiday which doesn't revolve largely around old customs. A few which are straight continuation, which aren't even particularly observed elsewhere, particularly with quite non-Christian approach to the dead. Or, my favorite: rules of placement for chapels, crosses, holy springs and copses(!!!) largely follow old rules.
(1) When looking at simple number of priests, parishes, and basic demographic data - it's very clear the Christianization wasn't even really seriously attempted until ~XVII century. A mass once or two times a year, in foreign language, was the best a typical peasant could count on for a long time. And why do even XVIII century sermons (the ones written down and preserved, so not even particularly provincial) quite often condemn "pagan superstitions" among the people?
...which brings us to (2) forgetfulness about Pagan Reaction in XI century. When Christian king had to escape, few present churches were destroyed (guess what happened to the clergy...), old temples restored at the same / their old grounds. Not for long of course - the king returned and restored proper Christian order with the help of warriors borrowed from the Holy Roman Emperor (but don't tell that to the most fervently faithful, they usually don't like Germans much, they get confused...)
The best part: three+ centuries later, it didn't stop an alliance with openly pagan Lithuania (throw in a number of local Muslims too - Tatars) against a "northern crusade" of sorts / basically against large part of Western Europe. This one people remember and cherish (one of few epic military victories). Yup, "the bulwark of Christianity"...
And it doesn't seem particularly unusual. However strong are the denials, Catholicisms... Christianity... indeed any religion is mostly an exercise at syncretism.
Perhaps you didn't thought through one destrciption, one slightly standing out.
"Conservative" buyers get what they're used to, with what they feel comfortable. "Unconservative" follow new toys. Now, which fits more "repeat buyers"?
BTW, how does that evangelization works out with slashdotters and Linux adoption?
There is something like "good enough" selection though. OTOH - how many UIs for single webpage do we need? (mobile Safari and Chrome suddenly not good enough?) How many e-books and audiobooks packaged as single app? (instead of being a data file) How many UIs for one web radio station? (instead of opening stream)
So let a thousand mobile OS flowers bloom and all that blithering Maoist claptrap.
Unfortunately people love victors (preferably their chosen ones); assume the situation must mirror, eventually, the share of desktop platforms... while there's nothing wrong with roughly equal shares of few players / web browsers recently show how it might be very well better.
Taking into account how often people seem to complain here about lack of solid network coverage of US carriers, that's already one major thing where those people could often be better served by some random Nokia phone...
It simply was in the news, after OECD reports. Very quick Google search (I'm sure you can easily find more; and Wiki article "Social mobility" doesn't look bad either) gives:
Surely you don't look at 9/11 as an isolated event? (Iran, for one, being part of the general background too)
I didn't claim they were the only group to get backing. But at the least - reports of...inconsistencies (considering them, it is pretty damn close to backing primarily this one group) were ignored.
But regarding more directly "...is responsible for...everyone that died in Afghanistan and Pakistan in military actions since 9-10-01" and "I didn't say anything about pre 9-10-01" - of course you did. Surely you must realize how the course of action was set before that date? That perhaps (regarding further link) the date was mostly set & some forces in place?
I wonder, who it to blame for turning a blind eye / supporting one particular Mujahideen faction... one which, apart from fighting the Soviets (letting them succeed would perhaps stabilize the place BTW; we basically fight the continuation of essentially the same war), was always eager to eliminate local opponents.
And I suppose the political climate in Iran is also exclusively the fault of Khomeini? 1953 coup d'etat, in a staunchly neutral country going towards modern reforms (heck, even as it is now they are beaten basically only by Muslim countries outside the region) can be ignored?
US has (together with the UK) the lowest social mobility between generations among developed countries (how far children can progress from the socioeconomic status of their parents, basically) - so much for "self motivation, personal responsibility, hard work, American Dream" (just that, a dream, another product to sell)
You voluntarily choose to live in a place which requires you to pay taxes / voluntarily contemplate only places which require you to pay taxes, if wanting to move.
There are places not requiring it. But generally speaking, you'd prefer to avoid them. Voluntarily.
Inevitably someone (a statistician, by any chance?...) had to say it. Yes, we know that. Researchers know that. But notice how TFS (and TFA) doesn't exactly claim otherwise (basically, at most, about vicious cycles...)
The difference between 50s and 90s in Poland. Note: apparently there was also some decline during the last decade, perhaps largely because of poorly executed educational reform (and...modeled on wrong examples; a bit in the spirit of post-colonial mentality: "they are prosperous, so all must be better").
Nothing too dramatic though, and I'm pretty certain it will continue to improve. Don't look at fluctuations; doesn't help that we are merely convinced of how good our memory is. Add variously colored glasses. And how we are not greatly aware of multi-decade changes, we are tainted by how hugely our own perspective shifts (IMHO it's not much of a stretch to say that we are generally closer to our peers than to ourselves at some distant life stages)
Look how rapidly the world has improved lately, all things considered (despite there being still a lot to do of course). Look how relatively stagnant it was during your time of "great thinkers"
Even with hiccups it still roughly gets better and better...
(also, can't really vouch for educational systems other than my local one... but according to one of my parents (accountant, so with some steady contact with basic math) - my generation apparently covered before highschool their Baccalaureate-level math; generally, schooling isn't even for that long very widespread in the first place / the average level of education is very much higher from the old times / we probably still get greater proportion of the "really wise" ones, those worth remembering at all from the really old times & skewing our perception)
Crap, my hangover must be worse than usual, I was convinced of writing some reply via means made possible by technical civilization of "humans"; even worse - being member of their species...
I remember how not so long ago any new SIM card came with its PIN. Lately though, out of the box, they often don't require any authorization (a PIN can be still set up of course, but...)
It would seem people prefer it that way (at least at my place, but I doubt it's very unique)
Close to (still not quite reaching that number, IIRC) 30% of device sales are smartphones, not 30% of subscribers (and as to "Droids"...Samsung seems to be positioning themselves firmly on top; unless the term starts becoming a genericized (shortcut of) trademark)
Slashdot Mirror
Oh, I didn't expect that...
Just a rare occurrence of exception handling.
(you don't think any of them would "convert" otherwise? Relatively few Eastern Catholics don't change much / they are predominantly in places where Catholicism isn't dominating, any discouragement must also be avoided)
And it wasn't that long ago that someone was considered unelectable as president if they were a Catholic
I don't think there was even one who wasn't assassinated while in office?
Indeed, one who believes it's hundreds of thousands... (and FYI, I'm pretty certain a mobile phone / app platform I have around has at least in the range of iOS or Android - we'll see if you can figure out which one yourself / do better than self-absorbed pundits)
Things like no married priests and stealing all the pagan holidays for themselves (christmas, etc) are much more recent than 2000 years
When looking at what can be known about my local paganism (and pre-Christian folk customs, generally) on one hand, and mainstream Christianity of X century (the time of "National Baptism" myth(1)) on the other ...it's not at all clear which one is closer to present folk religion (at my place - one held very dear by the Vatican; and no wonder: officially one of very few strongly Catholic places in the EU (more than Italy), considering itself "the bulwark of Christianity"(2), from where the previous Pope was...).
Yes, basics of Abrahamic mythology (nothing exhaustive) are there, as well as story of Messiah - they are not the only ones though, and I can't really name any Church holiday which doesn't revolve largely around old customs. A few which are straight continuation, which aren't even particularly observed elsewhere, particularly with quite non-Christian approach to the dead. Or, my favorite: rules of placement for chapels, crosses, holy springs and copses(!!!) largely follow old rules.
(1) When looking at simple number of priests, parishes, and basic demographic data - it's very clear the Christianization wasn't even really seriously attempted until ~XVII century. A mass once or two times a year, in foreign language, was the best a typical peasant could count on for a long time. And why do even XVIII century sermons (the ones written down and preserved, so not even particularly provincial) quite often condemn "pagan superstitions" among the people?
The best part: three+ centuries later, it didn't stop an alliance with openly pagan Lithuania (throw in a number of local Muslims too - Tatars) against a "northern crusade" of sorts / basically against large part of Western Europe. This one people remember and cherish (one of few epic military victories). Yup, "the bulwark of Christianity"...
And it doesn't seem particularly unusual. However strong are the denials, Catholicisms ... Christianity ... indeed any religion is mostly an exercise at syncretism.
I've heard Maemo being described as quite nice in this regard; and what little one could see of Meego, seems to be even better.
Of course it's probably in no better position than WebOS...
Perhaps you didn't thought through one destrciption, one slightly standing out.
"Conservative" buyers get what they're used to, with what they feel comfortable. "Unconservative" follow new toys. Now, which fits more "repeat buyers"?
BTW, how does that evangelization works out with slashdotters and Linux adoption?
There is something like "good enough" selection though. OTOH - how many UIs for single webpage do we need? (mobile Safari and Chrome suddenly not good enough?) How many e-books and audiobooks packaged as single app? (instead of being a data file) How many UIs for one web radio station? (instead of opening stream)
So let a thousand mobile OS flowers bloom and all that blithering Maoist claptrap.
Unfortunately people love victors (preferably their chosen ones); assume the situation must mirror, eventually, the share of desktop platforms ... while there's nothing wrong with roughly equal shares of few players / web browsers recently show how it might be very well better.
Taking into account how often people seem to complain here about lack of solid network coverage of US carriers, that's already one major thing where those people could often be better served by some random Nokia phone...
It simply was in the news, after OECD reports. Very quick Google search (I'm sure you can easily find more; and Wiki article "Social mobility" doesn't look bad either) gives:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8162616.stm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/mar/10/oecd-uk-worst-social-mobility
(now we can start guessing the reasons why it apparently(?) went unnoticed in the US)
Surely you don't look at 9/11 as an isolated event? (Iran, for one, being part of the general background too)
I didn't claim they were the only group to get backing. But at the least - reports of...inconsistencies (considering them, it is pretty damn close to backing primarily this one group) were ignored.
But regarding more directly "...is responsible for ...everyone that died in Afghanistan and Pakistan in military actions since 9-10-01" and "I didn't say anything about pre 9-10-01" - of course you did. Surely you must realize how the course of action was set before that date? That perhaps (regarding further link) the date was mostly set & some forces in place?
The latter though has some level of validity.
I wonder, who it to blame for turning a blind eye / supporting one particular Mujahideen faction ... one which, apart from fighting the Soviets (letting them succeed would perhaps stabilize the place BTW; we basically fight the continuation of essentially the same war), was always eager to eliminate local opponents.
And I suppose the political climate in Iran is also exclusively the fault of Khomeini? 1953 coup d'etat, in a staunchly neutral country going towards modern reforms (heck, even as it is now they are beaten basically only by Muslim countries outside the region) can be ignored?
US has (together with the UK) the lowest social mobility between generations among developed countries (how far children can progress from the socioeconomic status of their parents, basically) - so much for "self motivation, personal responsibility, hard work, American Dream" (just that, a dream, another product to sell)
The highest is in so-called "nanny states" BTW.
You voluntarily choose to live in a place which requires you to pay taxes / voluntarily contemplate only places which require you to pay taxes, if wanting to move.
There are places not requiring it. But generally speaking, you'd prefer to avoid them. Voluntarily.
Inevitably someone (a statistician, by any chance?...) had to say it. Yes, we know that. Researchers know that. But notice how TFS (and TFA) doesn't exactly claim otherwise (basically, at most, about vicious cycles...)
With smartphones of today - or even so called "feature phones", when used as an audio player for example - people run out of juice quite often.
(and you think I don't know how SIM's PIN work if going through enough of them to notice some pattern?)
The difference between 50s and 90s in Poland. Note: apparently there was also some decline during the last decade, perhaps largely because of poorly executed educational reform (and...modeled on wrong examples; a bit in the spirit of post-colonial mentality: "they are prosperous, so all must be better").
Nothing too dramatic though, and I'm pretty certain it will continue to improve. Don't look at fluctuations; doesn't help that we are merely convinced of how good our memory is. Add variously colored glasses. And how we are not greatly aware of multi-decade changes, we are tainted by how hugely our own perspective shifts (IMHO it's not much of a stretch to say that we are generally closer to our peers than to ourselves at some distant life stages)
Look how rapidly the world has improved lately, all things considered (despite there being still a lot to do of course). Look how relatively stagnant it was during your time of "great thinkers"
Not really completely different. Quite symptomatic.
Even with hiccups it still roughly gets better and better...
(also, can't really vouch for educational systems other than my local one... but according to one of my parents (accountant, so with some steady contact with basic math) - my generation apparently covered before highschool their Baccalaureate-level math; generally, schooling isn't even for that long very widespread in the first place / the average level of education is very much higher from the old times / we probably still get greater proportion of the "really wise" ones, those worth remembering at all from the really old times & skewing our perception)
Crap, my hangover must be worse than usual, I was convinced of writing some reply via means made possible by technical civilization of "humans"; even worse - being member of their species...
Also ~"moral and intellectual demise of youth will soon destroy civilization" - don't-remember-who, Ancient Greece.
I remember how not so long ago any new SIM card came with its PIN. Lately though, out of the box, they often don't require any authorization (a PIN can be still set up of course, but...)
It would seem people prefer it that way (at least at my place, but I doubt it's very unique)
Close to (still not quite reaching that number, IIRC) 30% of device sales are smartphones, not 30% of subscribers (and as to "Droids"...Samsung seems to be positioning themselves firmly on top; unless the term starts becoming a genericized (shortcut of) trademark)