You know, the thing people don't realise is that in Manhunt, you're not really playing a murderer as such. "The story revolves around a man on Death Row named James Earl Cash, sentenced to death by lethal injection due to a grievous crime, the nature of which is never explained" according to wikipedia, and from what I remember that is correct. So sure the guy wasn't necessarily a murder, but you do get on death row for much less than murder. I would also think that agreeing to kill people in exchange for release from death row qualifies as murder. I mean saying it's not murder is like saying that a death row inmate who kills the Dr that tried to put the needle in his arm did not murder him because after all the Dr. was trying to kill him. I'm also doubting you watched it for long if you wouldn't consider the numerous stealth kills (there was no immediate threat to the characters life) in the game to be murder. Not to mention higher score/unlockables if you are more horrific in your kills.
M-rating is just the version of AO that gets sold in stores. It's like AO exists separately only so it can be shunned - to make M-rating look tame by comparison. First of there is a significant difference between M and AO (though there must always be those cases that are borderline, just comes with the nature of ratings). But I don't think this is the issue here. So far I have not seen maybe people have an issue with Manhunt 2 actually having an AO rating, but there issues is that some stores chose not to carry them (I don't shop and Wal-Mart so general don't give a shit what they do or do not sell). If your local store won't carry AO and you want to purchase an AO game (and are 18 or older) then feel free to stop shopping there, or ask them to order it for you. If I was interested in Manhunt 2 I would go to my local gamestop and ask for it and if they wouldn't order it I would go next door and never look back. Address your frustration at the right organization, the store, not the ratings board.
Whether you're watching a gruesome movie or playing a gruesome video game, people should keep in mind that it is fake and that they should never mimic what they see in a movie or do in a video game in real life. I agree with you 100% on this. But since different people mature mentally to a state where they can fully comprehend the difference between reality and fiction and we as a society have decided to draw a line at 18 years of age. This rating system allows for the parents of those under 18 to asses their children individually and determine if they are capable of handling mature games (sadly some parents either don't monitor their children or asses incorrectly).
Of course I would bet that if the game were about making child pornography (or even forced sexual activity of adults) we would be seeing alot more support of an outright ban and a lot less "It's only a game" arguments.
Oh, I'm sorry. I was assuming that needing parental permission means the parent has to be there so they could just as easily drop the cash on the counter and purchase it themselves and hand it off to their child. With movies it's a little different, but since I own a number of NC-17 videos, and since the porn industry seems to be going pretty strong I don't see how NC-17 is the kiss of death for movies. Yes it means a smaller possible audience but maybe that's how it should be. The great thing about the rating system is that if a parent feels there child is capable of understanding the content they are perfectly welcome to purchase/rent the content and allow their children to view it in their own home.
But again these ratings are not governmentally regulated and there is no law to stop a person under 18 from purchasing an AO game other than the shop owner who is not legally bound to stop them.
Actually the first step towards the physical realization of arcology took place in 1970 in the middle of the Arizona Desert by the man that coined the terminology. That is if you are discounting the ground work laid by the multi use high rises of the 60 and 70s, such as Chicago's Marina City which with the addition of vertical farming could very well be considered an archology. Ultimately, even with the talk of vertical farming, the idea of archology is only a pipe dream in the United States where land is cheap and there is plenty available. Only once populatation density reaches critical mass will there be a drive for archology solutions.
I'd like to compare Manhunt 2 to Hostel 2 Hostel 2 - Rated so it can only be viewed by adults or with parental permission.
Manhunt 2 - Rated so it can only be purchased by adults or with parental permission.
Remember that both these rating systems are up to the enforcement of the establishments as is not actually legally binding
Now for a more telling comparison on why Manhunt should actually be more restricted than hostile. Here are some possible quotes after enjoying these two entertainment devices.
Hostile 2 - "I saw this one scene where the person was killed in a really horrific way"
Manhunt 2 - "I killed this one person in this really horrific way"
Hopefully you can see the difference. One is a movie you were you watch people get killed, while the other allows you to simulate killing people.
Notice I am not supporting a complete ban, but have no issue with realistic ratings.
Don't have a phone. Well to be more realistic don't have a land line. I rarely get wrong number calls and never get telemarketing calls, but that's because I do not have a land line of any sort. Because of the rate structure in the US of cell calls it is illegal for you to receive unsolicited marketing calls on a cell phone.
The other solution, as a friend of mine has taken on, is to switch to texting for anything you can.
I haven't seen/read "The Da Vinci Code" but Being better than Shakespeare and Homer doesn't seem all that difficult. I mean really Shakespeare and Homer are trash writers. Shakespeare wrote sitcoms and Homer's writings are like a D&D campaign gone bad. Neither understand the concepts of character development and the idea of intrigue is totally lost on them. You don't have to like my opinion, but you might now be able to see of quality of writing is a subjective thing, and who is a better judge of that quality than the average reader.
So you point out that the Wii has Outsold the PS2 for one month, event though the GGP stated it would need to be 3 months (probably meaning consecutive). I'm not even debating what is or isn't next gen, just that your link doesn't satisfy the proposed conditions.
Winning a Hugo award isn't really a good measure of literary merit. Doesn't that depend on your definition of good literary merit? I mean it is arguable that "writing works that readers actually like" is a measure of "literary merit." How does the saying go? "Those that can, do. Those that can't, teach. Those that can't teach, criticize"
As I read SuperKendall's criterion, PS3 is next-gen until it starts outselling PS2. I think you misread then. I figured he meant that no consoles are current gen until they outsell the PS2 for 3 months (I would say a whole year but that's just my opinion). I don't actually know the last couple months records, but as of the end of the calendar year PS2 was out selling the other consoles by a large margin (last time I checked the PS2 was at least selling as well as the others).
That's why my wife and kids play the Wii and I log about 20-30 hours per week on my 360. Sorry I just thought that needed Highlighting. Ever think your wife and kids play the Wii because you log 20-30 hours per week on your 360? It's either that or you really need to get a job.
When I call and hear a thick foreign accent I just key hitting the 1 key on my phone hoping eventually it will acknowledge and get me someone that speaks english.
There is plenty in the Van Halen catalog that could have used, but they went with a cover? Weak. True, the could have gone with "Pretty Women."
My question is where did the Beatles fall on THAT list? #1 of course, but you can check the list for yourself.
Which leads me to believe that a game based on [Guns 'N Roses (38.5 million) or Van Halen (56.5 million)]would be more successfull than one based on Black Sabbath (at 15 million), and since you drug them into it Rush (with 24.5 million sales) as well. First I don't disagree with the Van Halen idea, and I never compared VH to Rush in this aspect, I as comparing Rush to Cream and/or Genesis. But there is another aspect that you might have missed from my previous post that GnR doesn't have enough songs to find a full set for a GH game (assuming you are trying to get a decent best of) since even their greatest hits is a total of 14 songs including 4 covers and one who's lead instrument is whistling. And neither VH or GnR have an album of original music in a number of years where as Rush has remained relevant. Again, I'm not saying a VH Tribute game would not do well, or that even a GnR one wouldn't (I just don't think they have enough songs), I'm just saying that if you are making a list of Bands to create tributes for Rush would be above GnR, Genesis and Cream, and only a little below bands like VH, the Stones, Aerosmith and Kiss (regardless of my preference). And I have based this off of sales, longevity, and anecdotal evidence, such as the number of successful tribute bands.
And regardless of which would would sell more, I couldn't imagine a more well rounded band with a wider range of easy to extremely difficult songs than Rush, with the possible exception of Led Zeppelin, when you are talking about an entire Band (VH is better suited for Guitar Hero than Rock Band, in my opinion).
Oh and as long as I am learning something new, like a bands record sales or other statistics, I could keep this up forever.
Gauging on influence? I'm gauging on potential retail sales, and I'm just saying a Black Sabbath wouldn't bring in "the masses" the way a Van-Halen game would. Though there is no proof to back this up I have to disagree with you. Most people under 30 don't recognize VH even if the are into the hard rock/metal scene. Beavis and Butthead walked around air guitaring the intro to Iron Man not Ice Cream Man. The one VH song to make it onto GH so far was actually a Kinks song (and yes I think the Kinks did it better). And as much as VH may sell more in the US I would bet that Black Sabbath does much better world wide. Not to mention the fact that Ozzy, a founding member of Sabbath, is a house hold name. Plus Ozzy/Iommy are more likely to license their work than than Eddy/Dave. But again this is speculation and we will never know.
Where are The Beatles on that list? The Beatles would be on the list if it were not for the issues that they were not on any other GH (as compared to the other bands listed) and that it would be boring. Don't get me wrong it might sell a lot, but would kill the franchise do to licensing cost and that after playing a half a dozen of the songs any serious player will be tired of it all ready. Just name 3 Beatles songs with a half way decent solo or even one that would qualify for the top tier.
I don't think they would grab the sales volume of a Beatles, or VH (or even Phil Collins/ Genesis or Clapton/Creme) version. That doesn't mean the songs are bad, just that "by the masses" Rush isn't as popular. Collins and Genesis are out because the games, even Rock Band, are about guitar. Cream (correct spelling) is probably deserving of a Tribute game if it were not for the fact that their entire catalog of original songs wouldn't be but 30 songs. Rush on the other hand has 23 gold records and 14 platinum (3 multi-platinum) records placing them fifth, behind The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, KISS and Aerosmith, for the most consecutive gold and platinum albums by a rock band and ranked 78th in U.S. album sales according to the RIAA with sales of 24.5 million units. That's over a 30 year span of music and well over 200 songs to chose from. Rush also just released an album in the past couple months that hit #3 on the Billboard 100 chart, where as Clapton has not been their in a number of years. Not to mention their 13 #1 mainstream rock songs.
Seen since the subject line was never really brought into line with the thread and you responded to my response to someone else's response I lost track of who said what. But just for the record I was the one that said Sabbath belongs on the list of bands deserving a tribute as much as VH and more so than GnR, and I stand by it, if for no other reason than their influence on the direction of music from the 60s onward. After all Sabbath was listed as the 85th most influential artists of all times in Rolling Stone, while GnR was 92nd and VH wasn't even on the list. But I guess that's all just a mater of opinion (and since I'm right I'll just leave it at that)
But if we are seriously discussing possible Rock Band Tribute versions that Rush would have to be the best choice. There talented musicians, including two that are consistently listed in top tens (Peart and Lee) and one that just happens to be highly underrated though people are starting to come around (lifeson). All three play lead roles, so no one sits around playing simple rhythms while the rest of the players rock out. Not to mention the difficult of have to play through what amounts to 3 concurrent (Guitar, Drum and Base) 2 minute solos after getting through the first 18 minutes of 2112, or Having to endure the 6 minute concurent solo that is "La Villa Strangiato."
Oh and just look at the number of tribute albums and the number of main stream artist on them. You will see that Sabbath is far more respected than Bon Jovi or GnR. (And VH was a good pick, but I think you just got lucky on that one some how)
Could you name one song they did besides "Whip it" "Working in a Coal Mine" and "Girl you Want" to name a couple. Plus Devo's last studio album containing original music was 17 years ago, and their number of Gold or better releases pales in comparison to Sabbath's.
if you ask someone to name 5 Black Sabbath songs, most people would either be stumped I believe that depends on who you ask. Just because you happen to be unfamiliar with music prior to 1980 does not mean the rest of the world is.
This is why a Full Guitar Hero game built around Black Sabbath wouldn't work We will never find out but I would bet GH Sabbath Edition would out sell the GNR and Bon Jovi Edition combined. I'll give you credit for the Van Hallen choice, but to some Eddy is god, so you can't really go wrong there. And it's also funny that you chose to pick Sabbath as your target when their songs are far better known than Rush's and I put them in the list well above your choices.
Fine, I give. You want to blame the system instead of the immature players and poor GMing then I can't stop you. All I am saying is that if you let the players who min/max in Rifts do the same in this latest version of Star Wars they will find a way. If nothing else, they will chose the character class with the fastest level advancement so they can get there level bonus faster. I mean since all your "trained" skills effectively have the same level you just need to get as many skills as you can as fast as you can regardless of the character class. But this is why I have to again suggest the system used in Over the Edge since it puts a lot more focus on role playing and a lot less on rules lawyering (which turns out to be effectively impossible).
Just in the As and Bs of that List I would suggest Audio Slave, Breaking Benjamin and Buck Cherry. All three of them get main stream rock airplay, and contain either talented musicians, good music or both. Sure there is better stuff if you look a little underground, but you wanted good bands that have been successful. If I went to the Fs I could name 3 more of the top of my head, like Fair to Midland, Finger Eleven and Flyleaf, all three of which have been gaining popularity over the last 2 years.
Again this music is much harder than the examples you gave so I'm not sure if they would be to your liking or not.
Aside from "Iron Man" and "Paranoid" they have what exactly? "Sabbath, Bloody Sabbath", "Black Sabbath", "NIB", "Rock and Roll Doctor", "Heaven and Hell"
Not to mention, "Sweet Leaf", "Changes" and even "The Wizzard" (which I left out because it belongs more on Harmonica Hero)
Or anything of there 14 gold or better albums.
Oh, and "Iron Man" was on GH 1 and is available for Download for the 360 version of GH2.
Please don't take a list that features Tool as a band of the 2000s as even semi respectable. Though I didn't have to get past the B's to find a number or very respectable bands on that list. But then again I like my music to have some talent and energy behind it.
Both of these bands could have entire Guitar Hero games based on their respective bodies of work. I think they would have to get inline behind, Rush, the Stones, Kiss, Queen, Sabbath, Ozzy, Megadeth, and who knows how many other Bands previously featured in Guitar Hero.
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Of course I would bet that if the game were about making child pornography (or even forced sexual activity of adults) we would be seeing alot more support of an outright ban and a lot less "It's only a game" arguments.
Oh, I'm sorry. I was assuming that needing parental permission means the parent has to be there so they could just as easily drop the cash on the counter and purchase it themselves and hand it off to their child. With movies it's a little different, but since I own a number of NC-17 videos, and since the porn industry seems to be going pretty strong I don't see how NC-17 is the kiss of death for movies. Yes it means a smaller possible audience but maybe that's how it should be. The great thing about the rating system is that if a parent feels there child is capable of understanding the content they are perfectly welcome to purchase/rent the content and allow their children to view it in their own home.
But again these ratings are not governmentally regulated and there is no law to stop a person under 18 from purchasing an AO game other than the shop owner who is not legally bound to stop them.
I'm confused, were you just agreeing with me?
Actually the first step towards the physical realization of arcology took place in 1970 in the middle of the Arizona Desert by the man that coined the terminology. That is if you are discounting the ground work laid by the multi use high rises of the 60 and 70s, such as Chicago's Marina City which with the addition of vertical farming could very well be considered an archology. Ultimately, even with the talk of vertical farming, the idea of archology is only a pipe dream in the United States where land is cheap and there is plenty available. Only once populatation density reaches critical mass will there be a drive for archology solutions.
Manhunt 2 - Rated so it can only be purchased by adults or with parental permission.
Remember that both these rating systems are up to the enforcement of the establishments as is not actually legally binding
Now for a more telling comparison on why Manhunt should actually be more restricted than hostile. Here are some possible quotes after enjoying these two entertainment devices.
Hostile 2 - "I saw this one scene where the person was killed in a really horrific way"
Manhunt 2 - "I killed this one person in this really horrific way"
Hopefully you can see the difference. One is a movie you were you watch people get killed, while the other allows you to simulate killing people.
Notice I am not supporting a complete ban, but have no issue with realistic ratings.
Don't have a phone. Well to be more realistic don't have a land line. I rarely get wrong number calls and never get telemarketing calls, but that's because I do not have a land line of any sort. Because of the rate structure in the US of cell calls it is illegal for you to receive unsolicited marketing calls on a cell phone.
The other solution, as a friend of mine has taken on, is to switch to texting for anything you can.
I haven't seen/read "The Da Vinci Code" but Being better than Shakespeare and Homer doesn't seem all that difficult. I mean really Shakespeare and Homer are trash writers. Shakespeare wrote sitcoms and Homer's writings are like a D&D campaign gone bad. Neither understand the concepts of character development and the idea of intrigue is totally lost on them. You don't have to like my opinion, but you might now be able to see of quality of writing is a subjective thing, and who is a better judge of that quality than the average reader.
So you point out that the Wii has Outsold the PS2 for one month, event though the GGP stated it would need to be 3 months (probably meaning consecutive). I'm not even debating what is or isn't next gen, just that your link doesn't satisfy the proposed conditions.
And regardless of which would would sell more, I couldn't imagine a more well rounded band with a wider range of easy to extremely difficult songs than Rush, with the possible exception of Led Zeppelin, when you are talking about an entire Band (VH is better suited for Guitar Hero than Rock Band, in my opinion).
Oh and as long as I am learning something new, like a bands record sales or other statistics, I could keep this up forever.
Care to counter any of that?
Seen since the subject line was never really brought into line with the thread and you responded to my response to someone else's response I lost track of who said what. But just for the record I was the one that said Sabbath belongs on the list of bands deserving a tribute as much as VH and more so than GnR, and I stand by it, if for no other reason than their influence on the direction of music from the 60s onward. After all Sabbath was listed as the 85th most influential artists of all times in Rolling Stone, while GnR was 92nd and VH wasn't even on the list. But I guess that's all just a mater of opinion (and since I'm right I'll just leave it at that)
But if we are seriously discussing possible Rock Band Tribute versions that Rush would have to be the best choice. There talented musicians, including two that are consistently listed in top tens (Peart and Lee) and one that just happens to be highly underrated though people are starting to come around (lifeson). All three play lead roles, so no one sits around playing simple rhythms while the rest of the players rock out. Not to mention the difficult of have to play through what amounts to 3 concurrent (Guitar, Drum and Base) 2 minute solos after getting through the first 18 minutes of 2112, or Having to endure the 6 minute concurent solo that is "La Villa Strangiato."
Oh and just look at the number of tribute albums and the number of main stream artist on them. You will see that Sabbath is far more respected than Bon Jovi or GnR. (And VH was a good pick, but I think you just got lucky on that one some how)
Fine, I give. You want to blame the system instead of the immature players and poor GMing then I can't stop you. All I am saying is that if you let the players who min/max in Rifts do the same in this latest version of Star Wars they will find a way. If nothing else, they will chose the character class with the fastest level advancement so they can get there level bonus faster. I mean since all your "trained" skills effectively have the same level you just need to get as many skills as you can as fast as you can regardless of the character class. But this is why I have to again suggest the system used in Over the Edge since it puts a lot more focus on role playing and a lot less on rules lawyering (which turns out to be effectively impossible).
I could be wrong about the 360 DLC. I was only guessing from what I have heard, since won't ever own a 360.
Oh, and way to miss the numerous examples of other well known Sabbath songs.
Just in the As and Bs of that List I would suggest Audio Slave, Breaking Benjamin and Buck Cherry. All three of them get main stream rock airplay, and contain either talented musicians, good music or both. Sure there is better stuff if you look a little underground, but you wanted good bands that have been successful. If I went to the Fs I could name 3 more of the top of my head, like Fair to Midland, Finger Eleven and Flyleaf, all three of which have been gaining popularity over the last 2 years.
Again this music is much harder than the examples you gave so I'm not sure if they would be to your liking or not.
Not to mention, "Sweet Leaf", "Changes" and even "The Wizzard" (which I left out because it belongs more on Harmonica Hero)
Or anything of there 14 gold or better albums.
Oh, and "Iron Man" was on GH 1 and is available for Download for the 360 version of GH2.
Please don't take a list that features Tool as a band of the 2000s as even semi respectable. Though I didn't have to get past the B's to find a number or very respectable bands on that list. But then again I like my music to have some talent and energy behind it.