The free software solution is to create an IRC distribution adding these features. But the free software solution is less profitable than "an incompatible and locked-in system".
Let me count the problems that Discord and Slack solve compared to a basic IRC server:
Common IRC servers have no persistent log capability, meaning a user misses messages sent to a channel while the user is offline. I'm not aware of an IRC server distribution that includes a bouncer as a standard feature.
Common IRC servers have no attachment filedrop for use by logged-in users. Instead it has DCC, which is one-to-one and doesn't work through NAT.
Common IRC servers have no link summary bot. Instead, if someone includes a URL in a message, users are expected to click through without looking at what it might be.
To my knowledge, IRC has no concept of belonging to a channel group, whose members share privileges over all channels in the group. This is a "workspace" in Slack or a "server" in Discord.
Please bear with me as I try to understand how to apply what you wrote to my own situation. I think the core problem is I haven't been able to find the right words with which to ask people how to maintain connections with people outside my mother's side of my family.
I went to school and I still have connections to people I went to school with.
Unfortunately, I failed to understand during high school and college how to prepare my in-person connections there for maintenance past graduation. What steps should others take to avoid the mistakes I made?
I went to church, and still have connections from that.
Which works for religious people. What is the closest counterpart to church for someone who happens not to be religious?
I've had many jobs over the course of my career and I still have connections there
I wish I could say the same. It took me several years after graduation to even find a job, and few if any of my co-workers at my present job are anywhere near technical enough to maintain a personal website.
It's not about third parties seeking use of Mickey Mouse in particular as much as the effort that The Walt Disney Company has put into making sure nobody can do to twentieth century stories what Disney did to nineteenth century stories. It's also about the Winnie the Pooh books by A. A. Milne, whose U.S. copyright has the same 2024 expiry under current law as the first three Mickey shorts.
Square Enix's video game series Kingdom Hearts stars Mickey Mouse and other early era Disney characters. The animated series DuckTales is still being produced and takes place in the same fictional universe as the Mickey Mouse stories.
we might actually have someone alive whose works drop into PD.
That doesn't happen outside the United States for works not of corporate authorship. The international standard for over a century, pursuant to the Berne Convention, has been the life of the last surviving individual author plus two generations.
Try to find me one other profession where you can milk the exploits of someone you probably never even met because he died long before you were born.
Exploration and colonization. Descendants of Europeans are still milking the exploits of the European explorers who explored North and South America and swindled land from Native American nations.
Subscribing to a VPN service just to be able to accept incoming connections is a cost that a lot of end users don't want to have to pay in perpetuity. Nor does it scale, as VPN providers will end up running out of IPv4 addresses and end up having to put their subscribers behind NAT as well. Buying a domain name and keeping it renewed is another cost, and non-technical users need to learn a lot more to make that work than to make, say, a Facebook account work.
Also, states have been enforcing net neutrality policy.
They won't be able to for long once judges start ruling that the FCC's regulation preempts state law.
If the nerd in each family where to do this, then start cross-linking with the nerds in other families in their circles
How does the nerd in one family go about discovering nerds in other families in the first place without using big "silo" sites such as Facebook, Wikia, and Slashdot? If it involves face-to-face exchange of URLs, that's a bit more difficult on account of social interaction disorders that disproportionately afflict nerds, such as Asperger-type autism.
No Communist Party in China setting up a search engine with a US brand to never find results on Tiananmen square, a funny bear or words like term limits.
In the era of "forums and web sites" (which I take to mean between when home ISPs began service in the early 1990s to when Facebook left closed beta in September 2006), what search engine not beholden to a large company existed? Governments and brands don't need to coerce away the actual speech; they just need to coerce away the ability for prospective viewers to find such speech. Getting your speech discovered in the first place is the one problem that IndieWeb hasn't solved yet: "None currently."
Running your own web-server has gotten easier and cheaper. A RaspberryPI 3 would easily handle the traffic for most people's personal sites. And high speed connections are much less costly than they used to be for the speed you get.
Provided your ISP both legally and technically allows running a server at home. If the ISPs in your area put their home subscribers behind carrier-grade NAT, your ISP's router won't forward inbound connections on port 443 of your public IP to your NAT IP. If you're on a home plan, each of the high-volume ISPs serving your address could disconnect your service for running a server, which violates the typical home ISP acceptable use policy (AUP).
The closer you get to the ISP the closer you get to the first amendment being enforced.
With the death of net neutrality in the United States, the ISP or ISPs serving your address have a First Amendment right not to publish what you write.
IndieWeb is not a "service" but just a branding for returning to personal websites. It consists of a handful of protocols that a personal website may implement:
- microformats, which sits on top of HTML's class attribute - Webmention, which travels over HTTPS - IndieAuth, a simplified replacement for OpenID that also travels over HTTPS
To join the IndieWeb, as I understand it: 1. Start your own website on your domain. 2. Configure your CMS's HTML output to use microformats2 classes. 3. Configure your CMS to send and receive Webmention requests, so that you can leave replies to others' pages and show others' replies to your pages.
people hosted websites by spinning up an Apache instance that spoke HTTP and would serve their content to anyone who asked. And so there was never that big of a stink about censorship-by-nonprovision-of-services
How did people become "anyone who asked" in the first place?
there's no reason that the next big thing in social networking can't be designed as an open protocol, with no central point of control
The IndieWeb community is trying to build a more protocol-centric social web. Each IndieWeb user registers a domain and buys hosting to hold his or her own posts, and IndieWeb sites use Webmention requests (similar to pingbacks) to notify other sites that replies have been posted. Right now, the biggest missing piece of IndieWeb is a recommendation engine to suggest related works by other authors.
Hardware capability is through the roof now.
IPv4 address space, by contrast, is not. Nor is IPv6 routing; I haven't seen evidence that an IPv6-only website can become successful in gaining and keeping readers.
My smartphone has more storage, more processing power, and more bandwidth than the machines hosting IRC servers not that many years ago.
But it's missing one thing: the ability to accept incoming connections on IPv4. Most cellular ISPs put their subscribers behind carrier-grade NAT, as do even home ISPs in some countries. These ISPs give the same public IP address to a whole neighborhood and will refuse to forward inbound port 443 on your neighborhood's IP address to your machine.
I __really__ hope this does not turn out to be a new trend of console power divergence where there will be games that come out that can only run on the more powerful version.
Such a trend would not be new. About a year after the Game Boy Color came out, most new games were Color-only to take advantage of its faster CPU, larger RAM, and larger video memory bandwidth. Likewise with GameCube to Wii.
I acknowledge that a recommendation engine is the biggest missing piece of the IndieWeb paradigm. But in theory, an IndieWeb site would submit new pages to some aggregator service in Webmention format. This splits the roles of hosting and aggregation.
1. "Civil war" contains fewer words banned for broadcast by the US Federal Communications Commission than "pissing match". 2. For a proper "civil war", you'll need more hoop skirts. Perhaps a #MeToo-leaning fashion magazine can help bring them back in style by calling them "personal space skirts".
As silos continue to tighten their content policies, as Tumblr did over the past few weeks, more people will have to start caring about owning their URL space in order to continue to offer their works to the public.
With the recent rise in paywalled links from Slashdot stories, it becomes cost-prohibitive for everyone to read the article before participating. Though this particular article is not behind a paywall, the substantial fraction of other articles that are behind a paywall or "disable your antivirus" wall (or both in the case of MIT Tech Review) changes users' habits.
Then I must be no one. Where I live, a cellular ISP's monthly hotspot data transfer allotment tends to be orders of magnitude less than what a wired ISP offers: 10 GB per month for cellular vs. 1000 GB per month for wired. This is why I subscribe to cellular voice through T-Mobile USA and wired home data through the local cable company and tolerate loss of connection while riding in a moving vehicle.
Or did you specifically mean "no one in Taiwan"? If so, how does ISP pricing in Taiwan differ in a way that would affect this?
Okay, but are you saying that Google should help people set up their own domains?
I'm asking for third parties to make it one-click easy for a credit card holder to register a domain, set up mail hosting, set up a website revision system that supports Webmention, and export an archive of all of the user's data. Google need not be involved, other than to index the whole lot, though it kinda-sorta already does this with G Suite, Google Domains, Google Sites, Blogger, and the like.
I imagine that people tend to forget monopsonies exist because they are most familiar with consumer product scenarios, in which the seller has far more power than the buyer. Someone who doesn't regularly sell things might not have heard of the situation in, say, toy or comic book distribution where a large number of manufacturers sell to a handful of distributors. The only selling that a lot of people do is in the wage labor market, which people tend to see as somehow fundamentally separate from the market for other goods or services.
Slashdot Mirror
The free software solution is to create an IRC distribution adding these features. But the free software solution is less profitable than "an incompatible and locked-in system".
Whats's wrong withe email/IRC
Let me count the problems that Discord and Slack solve compared to a basic IRC server:
Please bear with me as I try to understand how to apply what you wrote to my own situation. I think the core problem is I haven't been able to find the right words with which to ask people how to maintain connections with people outside my mother's side of my family.
I went to school and I still have connections to people I went to school with.
Unfortunately, I failed to understand during high school and college how to prepare my in-person connections there for maintenance past graduation. What steps should others take to avoid the mistakes I made?
I went to church, and still have connections from that.
Which works for religious people. What is the closest counterpart to church for someone who happens not to be religious?
I've had many jobs over the course of my career and I still have connections there
I wish I could say the same. It took me several years after graduation to even find a job, and few if any of my co-workers at my present job are anywhere near technical enough to maintain a personal website.
My wife
How does someone even find a spouse?
Does your analysis include the effects of Dastar v. Fox, 539 U.S. 23 (2003)?
"With their own annotations"
So, only teams of multiple people are allowed to do so? Or is this another case of ridiculous political correctness?
It's not about third parties seeking use of Mickey Mouse in particular as much as the effort that The Walt Disney Company has put into making sure nobody can do to twentieth century stories what Disney did to nineteenth century stories. It's also about the Winnie the Pooh books by A. A. Milne, whose U.S. copyright has the same 2024 expiry under current law as the first three Mickey shorts.
A trademark cannot be used to extend the effective term of an expired U.S. copyright. Dastar v. Fox, 539 U.S. 23 (2003).
Square Enix's video game series Kingdom Hearts stars Mickey Mouse and other early era Disney characters. The animated series DuckTales is still being produced and takes place in the same fictional universe as the Mickey Mouse stories.
we might actually have someone alive whose works drop into PD.
That doesn't happen outside the United States for works not of corporate authorship. The international standard for over a century, pursuant to the Berne Convention, has been the life of the last surviving individual author plus two generations.
Try to find me one other profession where you can milk the exploits of someone you probably never even met because he died long before you were born.
Exploration and colonization. Descendants of Europeans are still milking the exploits of the European explorers who explored North and South America and swindled land from Native American nations.
People run VPNs
Subscribing to a VPN service just to be able to accept incoming connections is a cost that a lot of end users don't want to have to pay in perpetuity. Nor does it scale, as VPN providers will end up running out of IPv4 addresses and end up having to put their subscribers behind NAT as well. Buying a domain name and keeping it renewed is another cost, and non-technical users need to learn a lot more to make that work than to make, say, a Facebook account work.
Also, states have been enforcing net neutrality policy.
They won't be able to for long once judges start ruling that the FCC's regulation preempts state law.
If the nerd in each family where to do this, then start cross-linking with the nerds in other families in their circles
How does the nerd in one family go about discovering nerds in other families in the first place without using big "silo" sites such as Facebook, Wikia, and Slashdot? If it involves face-to-face exchange of URLs, that's a bit more difficult on account of social interaction disorders that disproportionately afflict nerds, such as Asperger-type autism.
No Communist Party in China setting up a search engine with a US brand to never find results on Tiananmen square, a funny bear or words like term limits.
In the era of "forums and web sites" (which I take to mean between when home ISPs began service in the early 1990s to when Facebook left closed beta in September 2006), what search engine not beholden to a large company existed? Governments and brands don't need to coerce away the actual speech; they just need to coerce away the ability for prospective viewers to find such speech. Getting your speech discovered in the first place is the one problem that IndieWeb hasn't solved yet: "None currently."
Running your own web-server has gotten easier and cheaper. A RaspberryPI 3 would easily handle the traffic for most people's personal sites. And high speed connections are much less costly than they used to be for the speed you get.
Provided your ISP both legally and technically allows running a server at home. If the ISPs in your area put their home subscribers behind carrier-grade NAT, your ISP's router won't forward inbound connections on port 443 of your public IP to your NAT IP. If you're on a home plan, each of the high-volume ISPs serving your address could disconnect your service for running a server, which violates the typical home ISP acceptable use policy (AUP).
The closer you get to the ISP the closer you get to the first amendment being enforced.
With the death of net neutrality in the United States, the ISP or ISPs serving your address have a First Amendment right not to publish what you write.
IndieWeb is not a "service" but just a branding for returning to personal websites. It consists of a handful of protocols that a personal website may implement:
- microformats, which sits on top of HTML's class attribute
- Webmention, which travels over HTTPS
- IndieAuth, a simplified replacement for OpenID that also travels over HTTPS
"why" and "Getting Started" would probably be the best entry points in my opinion.
To join the IndieWeb, as I understand it:
1. Start your own website on your domain.
2. Configure your CMS's HTML output to use microformats2 classes.
3. Configure your CMS to send and receive Webmention requests, so that you can leave replies to others' pages and show others' replies to your pages.
people hosted websites by spinning up an Apache instance that spoke HTTP and would serve their content to anyone who asked. And so there was never that big of a stink about censorship-by-nonprovision-of-services
How did people become "anyone who asked" in the first place?
there's no reason that the next big thing in social networking can't be designed as an open protocol, with no central point of control
The IndieWeb community is trying to build a more protocol-centric social web. Each IndieWeb user registers a domain and buys hosting to hold his or her own posts, and IndieWeb sites use Webmention requests (similar to pingbacks) to notify other sites that replies have been posted. Right now, the biggest missing piece of IndieWeb is a recommendation engine to suggest related works by other authors.
Hardware capability is through the roof now.
IPv4 address space, by contrast, is not. Nor is IPv6 routing; I haven't seen evidence that an IPv6-only website can become successful in gaining and keeping readers.
My smartphone has more storage, more processing power, and more bandwidth than the machines hosting IRC servers not that many years ago.
But it's missing one thing: the ability to accept incoming connections on IPv4. Most cellular ISPs put their subscribers behind carrier-grade NAT, as do even home ISPs in some countries. These ISPs give the same public IP address to a whole neighborhood and will refuse to forward inbound port 443 on your neighborhood's IP address to your machine.
I __really__ hope this does not turn out to be a new trend of console power divergence where there will be games that come out that can only run on the more powerful version.
Such a trend would not be new. About a year after the Game Boy Color came out, most new games were Color-only to take advantage of its faster CPU, larger RAM, and larger video memory bandwidth. Likewise with GameCube to Wii.
I acknowledge that a recommendation engine is the biggest missing piece of the IndieWeb paradigm. But in theory, an IndieWeb site would submit new pages to some aggregator service in Webmention format. This splits the roles of hosting and aggregation.
Two differences:
1. "Civil war" contains fewer words banned for broadcast by the US Federal Communications Commission than "pissing match".
2. For a proper "civil war", you'll need more hoop skirts. Perhaps a #MeToo-leaning fashion magazine can help bring them back in style by calling them "personal space skirts".
As silos continue to tighten their content policies, as Tumblr did over the past few weeks, more people will have to start caring about owning their URL space in order to continue to offer their works to the public.
Because newer technology can accommodate more simultaneous users on the same amount of valuable radio frequency spectrum.
With the recent rise in paywalled links from Slashdot stories, it becomes cost-prohibitive for everyone to read the article before participating. Though this particular article is not behind a paywall, the substantial fraction of other articles that are behind a paywall or "disable your antivirus" wall (or both in the case of MIT Tech Review) changes users' habits.
No one uses networks for voice only in 2018.
Then I must be no one. Where I live, a cellular ISP's monthly hotspot data transfer allotment tends to be orders of magnitude less than what a wired ISP offers: 10 GB per month for cellular vs. 1000 GB per month for wired. This is why I subscribe to cellular voice through T-Mobile USA and wired home data through the local cable company and tolerate loss of connection while riding in a moving vehicle.
Or did you specifically mean "no one in Taiwan"? If so, how does ISP pricing in Taiwan differ in a way that would affect this?
Okay, but are you saying that Google should help people set up their own domains?
I'm asking for third parties to make it one-click easy for a credit card holder to register a domain, set up mail hosting, set up a website revision system that supports Webmention, and export an archive of all of the user's data. Google need not be involved, other than to index the whole lot, though it kinda-sorta already does this with G Suite, Google Domains, Google Sites, Blogger, and the like.
I imagine that people tend to forget monopsonies exist because they are most familiar with consumer product scenarios, in which the seller has far more power than the buyer. Someone who doesn't regularly sell things might not have heard of the situation in, say, toy or comic book distribution where a large number of manufacturers sell to a handful of distributors. The only selling that a lot of people do is in the wage labor market, which people tend to see as somehow fundamentally separate from the market for other goods or services.