forced to live in districts set aside for them instead among the general population
This is a fabrication and I refer you to the Jewish historian Bernard Lewis' account of the Jewish experience post-Spain.
However, the end result for non-Muslim religions in the "Muslim world" was still the same: demographic decline, political disempowerment, and a whole host of laws that applied to them and not to Muslims.
If by "decline" you mean "rose to greater wealth than in their home nations" and by "political disempowerment" you mean "able to participate in the highest levels of government, provided independence including the legal right to govern their communities based on their own religious or cultural laws", then sure, I guess you're right. The Greeks in Ottoman Turkey were far more prosperous than the Greeks in Greece. Jews were able to achieve levels of economic prosperity unheard of in Europe, and actively participated in government right up to national government level.
Your view of history does not seem to be based on any mainstream accounts.
Historically, in territories controlled by Muslim polities, religious minorities have not fared particularly well.
Totally untrue, unless you're judging by the post-Islam governments of the colonially forged middle east of today. Muslims are NOT represented by and do NOT support the maniacal loonies in power across the middle east today.
Jewish massacres in particular have happened like clockwork across Islamdom.
[citation needed]. Also, this and this kinda ruins your "Muslims hate Jews" narrative.
The rest of your post is plain wrong. Muslims as a whole do NOT support groups like the Taliban, ISIS, Boko Haram, etc and the only way you'd think otherwise is by having little or no contact with actual Muslims. I am a Muslim. I am very active in the Muslim community both locally and internationally. Support for those groups is, to judge generously, minuscule, and confined to the least educated among us. 5 minutes talking to them and they change their mind. I know, I've been involved in de-radicalisation efforts.
I get that you were raised as a Muslim, and almost everybody who is raised in a faith believes that faith is correct and most importantly morally good and right. Does anyone who practices a religion believe their religion is bad?
I was raised in a Muslim family, but never had the religion forced upon me. I explored other religions freely, went to a Uniting Church school and had lengthy conversations with out pastor. I also spent time learning about the Buddhist faith. Islam for me is as active a choice as any other aspect of my lifestyle. Don't go making assumptions on my behalf, it's borderline insulting.
They don't seem to feel the need to make up a false white-washed history of Christianity.
I'm not making up a "false white-washed" history of Islam. I'm using documented facts and verified historical accounts to counter claims made that are simply not true.
It would be great if more people across the Muslim world would stand up against suicide bombings, against beheadings, against fundamentalist states, and against the persecution of religious minorities. Sure, some do, but not enough to seemingly affect real change anywhere around the world.
ALL of those things are explicitly forbidden in our faith. Without question, or exception. This is why we all call BS when those groups claim to do what they do in the name of Islam. They are doing it in the name of furthering their own political ends.
Also, the very moment the west stops sending foreign aid to regimes like the Saudi government, the Pakistani ISI, the Nigerian rebels, and other shadowy power centers throughout the Muslim world, that will be the moment we clean out the lunatics running around running amok.
When Muslims acted as a political bloc, the overwhelming majority of political interactions were positive. Political leaders were well known as the place of last resort for Jews escaping persecution in Europe. In fact a Muslim leader saved Jews from the Spanish Inquisition. They were famed for their willingness to send aid, no strings attached in an era when foreign aid was virtually unknown.
An honest and comprehensive reading of history simply does not support the proposition that Muslims are a sleeping mass of West-hating, xenophobic barbarians, waiting for the right moment to cleanse the world of infidels. There just isn't any real evidence to support this proposition.
There are 1.5 billion of us. Believe me, if we really were the blood thirsty monsters that the sensationalist media makes us out to be, then these and thesestatistics would look a lot different. According to the FBI and Europol, between 90% and 99% of global terrorist acts are committed by non-Muslims.
Kinda skewers your narrative there, sparky. I see you have a nasty case of ignorant world view-itis. I prescribe a daily dose of reserch, along with a healthy diet of facts.
As a Muslim, I can categorically state that anyone who thinks that we are required by our religion to kill or convert "infidels" has never actually met one of us, and only knows about us from Fox News. Fox News may accuse us of being ignorant and intolerant people, but history and fact does not support that assertion.
Our religion has a 1,400 year history of living side by side with Christians, Jews, fire worshippers, and atheists, even within the borders of Muslim nations, without incident. The wars in the middle east today are instigated by the idiots kept in power by foreign aid money. How many Muslims do you think actually support Assad? How many of us support the Saudi royals? Saddam Hussein? These people got into power by playing the game that landed them military support allowing them to seize power. The vast majority of Muslims do not support the barbaric idiocy demonstrated by these people, and that's to say nothing of the rabid dogs in ISIS.
You're judging 1.5 billion people, who collectively have a one and a half millennium long history of tolerance and acceptance, by the actions of a ragtag bunch of barbarians who are opposed by Muslims as much as they are by the rest of the world. That strikes me as rather, well, ignorant and intolerant.
Yea? Well when I was working at Microsoft they wouldn't allow me to attend a funeral, even though I WAS THE ONE THAT DIED! That's why I'm still here posting.
Aah. So you've identified the missing feature in Cortana. It needs to add to its AI engine a list of all junkets and other commercial events, and cross match them with the user's current location. So next time a question is asked, it can process it using the appropriate vocabulary for the occasion.
Later, in an workshop for MBAs: User: Cortana, tell me how to leverage synergies while focusing on our core competencies in a manner that maximizes shareholder value through enhancing business efficacy? Cortana: By sitting in your office and formulating massive spreadsheets that don't really do anything other than create impressive charts that you will embed in your PowerPoint slide deck and present at the next stockholders' AGM.
There's this small thing you may have heard of called predictive text. It was very useful, 15 years ago. This may come as a shock to you, but the people making tech like that have actually done stuff in the 15 years since.
I accept the possibility of what you're saying, however I think you're being pretty presumptuous about my internal state, given that you don't know me at all.
Since the early days of Islam, our senior scholars have held that unquestioning belief is not belief. Growing up in a multi-religious environment, I questioned whether or not my religion was the right one, or even if religion at all was valid, from an early age. I concluded from a fairly lengthy process, that Islam was the correct religion. I've conversed with scholars of most major religions on this, including ardent atheists. Ironically, atheists tend to be the least willing to challenge their assumptions, and simply rest on the old "religion is based on blind faith" cudgel. As far as Islam goes, nothing could be further from the truth, despite the fact that the vast majority of Muslims alive today are unaware of the deep epistemological framework that underpins the religion, and are unaware of the fact that we are instructed, not encouraged, to ask the question: "Am I sure that Islam is the correct religion?" Without considering this question and engaging in the research and reflection required to answer it, one's adherence to the faith is considered to be deficient.
Yes, it would have. My acceptance of the religion as true rests on my ability to verify all of the facts contained in its doctrines. To date, none have contradicted anything scientifically verifiable, even though there have been many attempts such as the clowns who wrote this article.
Also, ironically, in this situation, I'm the one who evaluated the veracity of the radiocarbon dating claim made by the author of that article rather than accepting it on, well, blind faith.
This is a joke. Full disclosure: I'm a Muslim. Nonetheless, I've read this article and it's bollocks. There are at least two major flaws that I can see:
a) Paper back then was a valuable resource, and it is highly likely that this parchment was either made and stored for several years before being used, or could have been reused. b) Radiocarbon dating is NOT accurate to 2 years in 1400, or about 0.14% which is what they are claiming. c) Even if we DO accept the radiocarbon dating, the date range confidence intervals overlap the historically recorded dates anyway well within one standard deviation so I don't know where all this "OMG this Koran is older" nonsense is coming from, unless some idiot journalist took the mean value and took that as, ahem, gospel.
As I said earlier, in the interests of intellectual honesty I'm disclosing the fact that I am a Muslim and that I would have to engage in significant review of my world view, were this proved correct. But as I see it, there just is nothing to this claim that warrants any time spent considering the possibility that the whole historical record to date is wrong.
Have you considered replacing her computer with one of those Fisher Price toy computers that just makes beeping noises when you press the keys? From what you say, it doesn't seem like she'd notice.
Do a reverse fish. Tell them that you'll give them anything they want, but you've run out of prepaid broadband credit. They need to send you $30 so you can buy another voucher.
Exactly. Just because something is highly improbably does not mean it cannot happen. The occurrence of a statistical outlier does not negate the existence of factors that heavily weigh against it occurring. It just means that anyone who bet on American Pharaoh would (or at least should) have gotten extremely good odds.
Slashdot Mirror
This is a fabrication and I refer you to the Jewish historian Bernard Lewis' account of the Jewish experience post-Spain.
If by "decline" you mean "rose to greater wealth than in their home nations" and by "political disempowerment" you mean "able to participate in the highest levels of government, provided independence including the legal right to govern their communities based on their own religious or cultural laws", then sure, I guess you're right. The Greeks in Ottoman Turkey were far more prosperous than the Greeks in Greece. Jews were able to achieve levels of economic prosperity unheard of in Europe, and actively participated in government right up to national government level.
Your view of history does not seem to be based on any mainstream accounts.
Totally untrue, unless you're judging by the post-Islam governments of the colonially forged middle east of today. Muslims are NOT represented by and do NOT support the maniacal loonies in power across the middle east today.
[citation needed]. Also, this and this kinda ruins your "Muslims hate Jews" narrative.
The rest of your post is plain wrong. Muslims as a whole do NOT support groups like the Taliban, ISIS, Boko Haram, etc and the only way you'd think otherwise is by having little or no contact with actual Muslims. I am a Muslim. I am very active in the Muslim community both locally and internationally. Support for those groups is, to judge generously, minuscule, and confined to the least educated among us. 5 minutes talking to them and they change their mind. I know, I've been involved in de-radicalisation efforts.
I was raised in a Muslim family, but never had the religion forced upon me. I explored other religions freely, went to a Uniting Church school and had lengthy conversations with out pastor. I also spent time learning about the Buddhist faith. Islam for me is as active a choice as any other aspect of my lifestyle. Don't go making assumptions on my behalf, it's borderline insulting.
I'm not making up a "false white-washed" history of Islam. I'm using documented facts and verified historical accounts to counter claims made that are simply not true.
ALL of those things are explicitly forbidden in our faith. Without question, or exception. This is why we all call BS when those groups claim to do what they do in the name of Islam. They are doing it in the name of furthering their own political ends.
Also, the very moment the west stops sending foreign aid to regimes like the Saudi government, the Pakistani ISI, the Nigerian rebels, and other shadowy power centers throughout the Muslim world, that will be the moment we clean out the lunatics running around running amok.
When Muslims acted as a political bloc, the overwhelming majority of political interactions were positive. Political leaders were well known as the place of last resort for Jews escaping persecution in Europe. In fact a Muslim leader saved Jews from the Spanish Inquisition. They were famed for their willingness to send aid, no strings attached in an era when foreign aid was virtually unknown.
An honest and comprehensive reading of history simply does not support the proposition that Muslims are a sleeping mass of West-hating, xenophobic barbarians, waiting for the right moment to cleanse the world of infidels. There just isn't any real evidence to support this proposition.
I can spell "research", honest!
There are 1.5 billion of us. Believe me, if we really were the blood thirsty monsters that the sensationalist media makes us out to be, then these and thesestatistics would look a lot different. According to the FBI and Europol, between 90% and 99% of global terrorist acts are committed by non-Muslims.
Kinda skewers your narrative there, sparky. I see you have a nasty case of ignorant world view-itis. I prescribe a daily dose of reserch, along with a healthy diet of facts.
As a Muslim, I can categorically state that anyone who thinks that we are required by our religion to kill or convert "infidels" has never actually met one of us, and only knows about us from Fox News. Fox News may accuse us of being ignorant and intolerant people, but history and fact does not support that assertion.
Our religion has a 1,400 year history of living side by side with Christians, Jews, fire worshippers, and atheists, even within the borders of Muslim nations, without incident. The wars in the middle east today are instigated by the idiots kept in power by foreign aid money. How many Muslims do you think actually support Assad? How many of us support the Saudi royals? Saddam Hussein? These people got into power by playing the game that landed them military support allowing them to seize power. The vast majority of Muslims do not support the barbaric idiocy demonstrated by these people, and that's to say nothing of the rabid dogs in ISIS.
You're judging 1.5 billion people, who collectively have a one and a half millennium long history of tolerance and acceptance, by the actions of a ragtag bunch of barbarians who are opposed by Muslims as much as they are by the rest of the world. That strikes me as rather, well, ignorant and intolerant.
I took a cold shower this morning.
I better turn myself in.
But I'm not white. I'm a brown skinned Muslim.
Yea? Well when I was working at Microsoft they wouldn't allow me to attend a funeral, even though I WAS THE ONE THAT DIED! That's why I'm still here posting.
Aah. So you've identified the missing feature in Cortana. It needs to add to its AI engine a list of all junkets and other commercial events, and cross match them with the user's current location. So next time a question is asked, it can process it using the appropriate vocabulary for the occasion.
Later, in an workshop for MBAs:
User: Cortana, tell me how to leverage synergies while focusing on our core competencies in a manner that maximizes shareholder value through enhancing business efficacy?
Cortana: By sitting in your office and formulating massive spreadsheets that don't really do anything other than create impressive charts that you will embed in your PowerPoint slide deck and present at the next stockholders' AGM.
Obligatory:
https://xkcd.com/937/
I think his point is that it is ridiculous that you have to install apps on your device to do basic things, like COPY STUFF TO IT.
There's this small thing you may have heard of called predictive text. It was very useful, 15 years ago. This may come as a shock to you, but the people making tech like that have actually done stuff in the 15 years since.
I accept the possibility of what you're saying, however I think you're being pretty presumptuous about my internal state, given that you don't know me at all.
Since the early days of Islam, our senior scholars have held that unquestioning belief is not belief. Growing up in a multi-religious environment, I questioned whether or not my religion was the right one, or even if religion at all was valid, from an early age. I concluded from a fairly lengthy process, that Islam was the correct religion. I've conversed with scholars of most major religions on this, including ardent atheists. Ironically, atheists tend to be the least willing to challenge their assumptions, and simply rest on the old "religion is based on blind faith" cudgel. As far as Islam goes, nothing could be further from the truth, despite the fact that the vast majority of Muslims alive today are unaware of the deep epistemological framework that underpins the religion, and are unaware of the fact that we are instructed, not encouraged, to ask the question: "Am I sure that Islam is the correct religion?" Without considering this question and engaging in the research and reflection required to answer it, one's adherence to the faith is considered to be deficient.
Yes, it would have. My acceptance of the religion as true rests on my ability to verify all of the facts contained in its doctrines. To date, none have contradicted anything scientifically verifiable, even though there have been many attempts such as the clowns who wrote this article.
Also, ironically, in this situation, I'm the one who evaluated the veracity of the radiocarbon dating claim made by the author of that article rather than accepting it on, well, blind faith.
I can accept that possibility. However, my choice to follow the religion is based on a thoroughly open eyed evaluation of its body of knowledge.
There are THREE major flaws in this... No FOUR major flaws in this... Among the major flaws in this article are...
I bet nobody expected that.
This is a joke. Full disclosure: I'm a Muslim. Nonetheless, I've read this article and it's bollocks. There are at least two major flaws that I can see:
a) Paper back then was a valuable resource, and it is highly likely that this parchment was either made and stored for several years before being used, or could have been reused.
b) Radiocarbon dating is NOT accurate to 2 years in 1400, or about 0.14% which is what they are claiming.
c) Even if we DO accept the radiocarbon dating, the date range confidence intervals overlap the historically recorded dates anyway well within one standard deviation so I don't know where all this "OMG this Koran is older" nonsense is coming from, unless some idiot journalist took the mean value and took that as, ahem, gospel.
As I said earlier, in the interests of intellectual honesty I'm disclosing the fact that I am a Muslim and that I would have to engage in significant review of my world view, were this proved correct. But as I see it, there just is nothing to this claim that warrants any time spent considering the possibility that the whole historical record to date is wrong.
Have you considered replacing her computer with one of those Fisher Price toy computers that just makes beeping noises when you press the keys? From what you say, it doesn't seem like she'd notice.
Do a reverse fish. Tell them that you'll give them anything they want, but you've run out of prepaid broadband credit. They need to send you $30 so you can buy another voucher.
...says the anti-M$ zealot who started the whole thread by spouting "Windows is teh sux0r".
Yes, the operative words being "your money".
As distinctly opposed to losing banks' customers' money and then a giant pile of taxpayers' money.
Exactly. Just because something is highly improbably does not mean it cannot happen. The occurrence of a statistical outlier does not negate the existence of factors that heavily weigh against it occurring. It just means that anyone who bet on American Pharaoh would (or at least should) have gotten extremely good odds.
We'll need more IPs as soon as the IoT revolution gets underway and we need to assign an IP to every lightbulb.