No, the interface is the same as it was before... plus touch based application support. Is an IOS interface designed for a 3 year old? Is android? Same thing. get over it.
Thats true, but thats because its ARM. Its not really the fault of windows. Windows NT used to have a dec alpha version as well, and it didnt run photoshop either:)
Surface RT and Windows RT is microsofts attempt to make use of ARM Cpus which have the benefit of being more energy efficient (although slower).
In other words, what if intel lost, and everything went ARM. MS would have windows ready to run on it. It makes sense, but as a mobile device launch, I find it to be confusing and a bad choice for MS. They confused the buyer with WindowsRT. Less informed people wont know the difference and end up with a device that cant run desktop applications. Its a shame really that the Surface RT came out first.
I'm well aware of the historical progress of both companies... and you're just proving my point. 10 years ago MS was trying to get tablet PCs to work well. We were not there yet, we were not ready.. but we were always headed there.
We are not at the promise land for tablets yet. Windows 8 is the next step towards getting there.
You're right iOS shares a lot with OSX... why do you think that is? Do you really think Apple doesnt want to provide more desktop function on smaller devices? The macbook Air is a perfect example of that not being true. Apple very much wants to deliver the most feature rich experience you can on their devices, and MS does too. Granted MS usually leaves a lot to be desired. But in this case, Windows 8 actually is better than Windows 7, it provides a full desktop OS capable of running on all devices, and it can do it all, apps, desktop apps, touch input, pen input, mouse and keyboard input. Apple will follow in a similar fashion.
Apple may be able to it better too. There is a very good chance of that. Microsoft is known to not get behind good ideas. Windows 8 is a good idea, but will the app experience be there? so far, its mediocre at the app store level on windows 8... but the foundation is there, and the OS is solid. You have to give it credit, to not do so is just unfair.
Bullshit. Have you polled every user who owns a tablet to confirm they've said that? I've never said it, I assume other people have never said it, so "EVERY" in this case is mere hyperbole to suit your argument.
Oh really? So the entire evolution of computer science wasnt based on "But what if we could do more?"
Are you really trying to tell me that we're at the end of progress? That we've stopped dreaming about how to improve every device, every line of code, and every idea? We're done?
Well thats news to me. The entire progress of computers is based on ideal goals, and if you tell me a tablet, or touch based device without better application support is ideal... then I dont know what to say other than i disagree. I remember when iOS couldnt run apps.
Yeah, lets design a small, portable device with lousy batter life so we can run photoshop on it. If you know you're going to have to plug it into the wall, why not use a desktop and a mouse?
I dont carry around my desktop everywhere I go, and neither do you. Why limit yourself because you only have a tablet on hand? You just dont make sense. I've never used a computer and said "this is good enough, we've done all we can, and it cant be any better than this".
Ah, and there's the crux of it isn't it? This is about what you want, not what the general market for tablets want. What percentage of people who own tablets want that?
I'm not part of the general market? Interesting definition of general you have. Are you saying the general market are morons who use their computers for porn and facebook? OK fine, lets stop making new devices and improving technology every year, because we can satisfy those needs 10 years ago.
And has anybody so far designed a tablet with the express needs of an artiste in mind? No
Microsoft Surface has a pressure/tilt sensitive pen and the os has pen input features such as hand writing recognition. So yes, there are tablets with that feature. In fact they were around long before the ipad. Theres also a third party pen for the ipad but it doesnt have pressure sensitivity so its useless.
No, it's better for you, and what you feel you need. Which, as you say, is fine. 'Better' is and always will be a purely subjective measure, it's not an objective fact.
You're over simplifying something as complex as a modern OS. It is in every way technically superior to windows 7. So yes its better by those standards. THE ONLY thing in question is really interface. NO ONE is saying "windows 8 is worse than windows 7 technically". No one. Thats a fact. Those who are bashing windows 8, are generally upset about ui design. They're saying "this Ferrari is fast.. but I hate it because its not red... stupid ferrari, I dont want it".
All that you've said is that for you, as an artist, want features not in most tablets. All I've said is that, as someone who has had a tablet for a couple of years now and quite likes it, I don't use it anything like my desktop, and I'm not interested in one which replaces my desktop.
You're lying if you've never wanted to do more with your tablet. You may not want it to be like a desktop ui... but you're lying if you're telling me that it functions as good as it ever will and you dont ever dream of a day it can do more... while you're shitting on the toilet or visiting grandma.
You're not being honest. The reason we have tablets is because we've dreamed of the idea and progressed to it. Are you saying we're finished ? I dont believe you.
you may not want a desktop ui on it. Thats fine. I'm not saying you have to. I'm just saying, windows 8 manages to do both, and you have a choice. It can do both fine. So in your attempt to single me out as different from you... windows 8 addresses both of our needs in a sense. You just dont want it. Thats ok, but dont insult the idea that an OS
Yawn. I know its hard for you to believe, but there are people with opinions in this world that differ from yours, but you go ahead and comfort your poor little baby ego and tell yourself i'm a shill.
nonsense. theres no desktop specific properties in the modern ui.
Want to shut down your computer? Press the power button on the computer, or the shut down key on your keyboard, or control-alt-delete or alt-f4, or use the charm menu, or pin a shortcut to your taskbar if you're that desperate... or let windows put your computer to sleep when its idle.
Seriously, it became ok to remove a feature that seemed to be essential to the system because we can download a third party module that will fix it?
But thats just it, it seems essential but its not!. The old start menu was redundant. The windows 7 taskbar is where you pin your frequently used apps. The start menu was just a list of installed stuff you rarely go to on a daily basis. Well that still exists, but in a full screen menu thats easier to use and its where tablet apps run.
The start menu isnt essential. I rarely use the start menu now. You do not use windows 8, like windows 95.
I have never said "gee, I wish my tablet had the same interface as a desktop OS". I don't know anybody else who owns a tablet who has said that.
Of course you've never said that, because its nonsense. I remember when iOS didnt even have cut and paste. Are you saying it was a bad idea to include cut and paste?
EVERY tablet user has said "This is great, but its limited" or "This is great, but imagine if i could do more, like run photoshop on this"
You have it backwards but you're right, no one has said "I wish my tablet had the same interface as a desktop OS". Thats why windows 8 has a tablet touch based ui as well as a desktop ui. If you want deeper functionality you can go into desktop mode, if not, you can use your tablet like any other tablet via a tablet ui. I dont see whats so hard to figure out about this, MS deserves credit for successfully pulling off something no one has done yet. You cant say Windows is bloated, when it can run on tablets and provide full desktop functionality. Its efficient, its faster than ever. Apple is already hard at work planning to do the very same thing.
If you're doing full blown photoshop, WTF would you want to be doing it on a tablet for? Everyone will say "god, I miss my long battery life".
Battery life is not an excuse to limit functionality as long as you have the option to plug things into a wall. The iphone battery life is terrible but it didnt stop it from being the amazing device it has become.
There are many situations when I as an artist would love to just draw on a tablet with pressure sensitive pen using autodesk sketchbook pro which is highly superior to the silly iOS app version which bares no resemblance to the full application. That is why Windows 8 is superior, because it can do both, and its up to you.
I use my tablet primarily for entertainment and light web surfing I'm not remotely interested in trying to get it bumped up to be a replacement/upgrade for my main desktop
Thats fine, but to deny the ability is now a user choice is just bad. Thats the great thing about windows 8, if you want it to be just a tablet os, it is. If you want more functionality out of it, its there. What you do with your devices is up to you, but the truth is, until last month, no one had the ability to run desktop apps, and do more on their tablet. Windows 8 provides you the option.
Microsoft has taken two concepts, jammed them together badly, and called it Windows 8. But if you like Win 8, feel free to use it -- my guess is most businesses are just going to skip right past this one, and I'm pondering buying a Win 7 box now so I don't need to deal with Win 8.
Have you used it? How do you know its different than windows 7? See thats the trick, its not. Windows 7 is far more different compared to vista or xp, than windows 8 is to 7. Windows 8 is virtually the same thing, minus the start menu redundancy. Its actually more efficient. I dont get what is so scary about the start screen. I rarely ever see or use it on my desktop. I'm serious. Its not as scary as you might think. Its a very well thought out OS. Its not as disjointed as you think. I use it every day, and I'm a 3d fx artist. I use it in the same exact way as windows 7, except now, I rarely use the start menu, because theres no need. The taskbar is what replaces it, and the start screen is there for those who need to fall back on, or to run tablet apps.
Advanced users will always use things as they were designed, while others will fumble through changes. I'm telling you honestly, I dont miss windows 7. I really dont. Windows 8 performs better, and there are even improvements in the desktop that advanced users will appreciate. The start menu was for mom, not for us.
And i've been there to see it all from c64s to apple2es, to pc's running dos, desqview, os/2, win31 all the way up to windows 8.
You're right. I remember the day when simply copying a file to a floppy disk would bring MacOS to its knees.
People just forget, they take so much for granted. I remember when the start menu was called "dumb" by computer geeks, and now they all miss it?
People are just too slow to change. They've never had to adapt... and now they have to slightly to enjoy an OS that is better in every way over windows 7.
I dont care about lazy users who are slow to change. Progress always drags some people kicking and screaming into the future eventually. Look at all the dumb religious people still convinced the world is 6000 years old. We've even had a celebrity who thought the world was fucking flat in the 2000s!!!!!! Meanwhile these idiots walk around with iphones.
People are just lazy. Smart people dont bitch and moan about a start menu change.
On a technical level, windows 8 is superior to windows 7 in every way and the new ui changes are actually improvements. The people fighting change, just havent bothered to actually learn how to use windows 8, so to them "its different, so its bad". Notice that every idiot that shits all over windows 8, NEVER mentions performance being a problem. Its as if they dont even care that windows 8 is more efficient and faster than windows 7.
I'm sorry, but I dont judge an OS by how lazy a user is at learning it.
Microsoft just made the first FULL desktop OS capable of running on all devices including touch based tablets, and you find that to be a bad move?
APPLE is ALREADY fucking trying to figure out how to do with OSX. Will you bitch and moan next year when Apple does it? Or will you credit Microsoft for being the first to head in the direction where we ALL want to go.
An Ipad is a toy. When an Ipad can run full photoshop with pressure/tilt sensitive pen... everyone will say "this is brilliant"
mean while that is exactly what MS has just delivered to everyone this year. Apple will do it next year.
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No, the interface is the same as it was before... plus touch based application support. Is an IOS interface designed for a 3 year old? Is android? Same thing. get over it.
Human beings are rarely fair or rational. Most humans are religious zealots incapable of nuance, or change.
Windows 8 is a great OS, better than 7 in every way, but since the start menu changed, its obviously trash. Humanity is just dumb.
Its just like Yahtzee, minus the humor plus a big fat whining idiot.
Sounds like a user problem to me. Windows 8 is working just fine for me.
I'm using it for actual work. Post production, special fx, 3d animation. Windows 8 is better than 7 and its just fine.
I just dont see people willing to carry around all those stones.
... all the wrong answers.
Thats true, but thats because its ARM. Its not really the fault of windows. Windows NT used to have a dec alpha version as well, and it didnt run photoshop either :)
Surface RT and Windows RT is microsofts attempt to make use of ARM Cpus which have the benefit of being more energy efficient (although slower).
In other words, what if intel lost, and everything went ARM. MS would have windows ready to run on it. It makes sense, but as a mobile device launch, I find it to be confusing and a bad choice for MS. They confused the buyer with WindowsRT. Less informed people wont know the difference and end up with a device that cant run desktop applications. Its a shame really that the Surface RT came out first.
I'm well aware of the historical progress of both companies... and you're just proving my point. 10 years ago MS was trying to get tablet PCs to work well. We were not there yet, we were not ready.. but we were always headed there.
We are not at the promise land for tablets yet. Windows 8 is the next step towards getting there.
You're right iOS shares a lot with OSX... why do you think that is? Do you really think Apple doesnt want to provide more desktop function on smaller devices? The macbook Air is a perfect example of that not being true. Apple very much wants to deliver the most feature rich experience you can on their devices, and MS does too. Granted MS usually leaves a lot to be desired. But in this case, Windows 8 actually is better than Windows 7, it provides a full desktop OS capable of running on all devices, and it can do it all, apps, desktop apps, touch input, pen input, mouse and keyboard input. Apple will follow in a similar fashion.
Apple may be able to it better too. There is a very good chance of that. Microsoft is known to not get behind good ideas. Windows 8 is a good idea, but will the app experience be there? so far, its mediocre at the app store level on windows 8... but the foundation is there, and the OS is solid. You have to give it credit, to not do so is just unfair.
Bullshit. Have you polled every user who owns a tablet to confirm they've said that? I've never said it, I assume other people have never said it, so "EVERY" in this case is mere hyperbole to suit your argument.
Oh really? So the entire evolution of computer science wasnt based on "But what if we could do more?"
Are you really trying to tell me that we're at the end of progress? That we've stopped dreaming about how to improve every device, every line of code, and every idea? We're done?
Well thats news to me. The entire progress of computers is based on ideal goals, and if you tell me a tablet, or touch based device without better application support is ideal... then I dont know what to say other than i disagree. I remember when iOS couldnt run apps.
Yeah, lets design a small, portable device with lousy batter life so we can run photoshop on it. If you know you're going to have to plug it into the wall, why not use a desktop and a mouse?
I dont carry around my desktop everywhere I go, and neither do you. Why limit yourself because you only have a tablet on hand? You just dont make sense. I've never used a computer and said "this is good enough, we've done all we can, and it cant be any better than this".
Ah, and there's the crux of it isn't it? This is about what you want, not what the general market for tablets want. What percentage of people who own tablets want that?
I'm not part of the general market? Interesting definition of general you have. Are you saying the general market are morons who use their computers for porn and facebook? OK fine, lets stop making new devices and improving technology every year, because we can satisfy those needs 10 years ago.
And has anybody so far designed a tablet with the express needs of an artiste in mind? No
Microsoft Surface has a pressure/tilt sensitive pen and the os has pen input features such as hand writing recognition. So yes, there are tablets with that feature. In fact they were around long before the ipad. Theres also a third party pen for the ipad but it doesnt have pressure sensitivity so its useless.
No, it's better for you, and what you feel you need. Which, as you say, is fine. 'Better' is and always will be a purely subjective measure, it's not an objective fact.
You're over simplifying something as complex as a modern OS. It is in every way technically superior to windows 7. So yes its better by those standards. THE ONLY thing in question is really interface. NO ONE is saying "windows 8 is worse than windows 7 technically". No one. Thats a fact. Those who are bashing windows 8, are generally upset about ui design. They're saying "this Ferrari is fast.. but I hate it because its not red... stupid ferrari, I dont want it".
All that you've said is that for you, as an artist, want features not in most tablets. All I've said is that, as someone who has had a tablet for a couple of years now and quite likes it, I don't use it anything like my desktop, and I'm not interested in one which replaces my desktop.
You're lying if you've never wanted to do more with your tablet. You may not want it to be like a desktop ui... but you're lying if you're telling me that it functions as good as it ever will and you dont ever dream of a day it can do more... while you're shitting on the toilet or visiting grandma.
You're not being honest. The reason we have tablets is because we've dreamed of the idea and progressed to it. Are you saying we're finished ? I dont believe you.
you may not want a desktop ui on it. Thats fine. I'm not saying you have to. I'm just saying, windows 8 manages to do both, and you have a choice. It can do both fine. So in your attempt to single me out as different from you... windows 8 addresses both of our needs in a sense. You just dont want it. Thats ok, but dont insult the idea that an OS
From the description of how badly it does both tasks, yes ... there's no point in innovating crap
So you havent tried it, and you're not even willing to be open minded. Remind me why I would waste my time explaining my opinion to you?
Yawn. I know its hard for you to believe, but there are people with opinions in this world that differ from yours, but you go ahead and comfort your poor little baby ego and tell yourself i'm a shill.
aww.. your ego is so fragile.
Whats the difference? We now have mobile touch based devices.
nonsense. theres no desktop specific properties in the modern ui.
Want to shut down your computer? Press the power button on the computer, or the shut down key on your keyboard, or control-alt-delete or alt-f4, or use the charm menu, or pin a shortcut to your taskbar if you're that desperate... or let windows put your computer to sleep when its idle.
So many options... so many lazy users.
Seriously, it became ok to remove a feature that seemed to be essential to the system because we can download a third party module that will fix it?
But thats just it, it seems essential but its not!. The old start menu was redundant. The windows 7 taskbar is where you pin your frequently used apps. The start menu was just a list of installed stuff you rarely go to on a daily basis. Well that still exists, but in a full screen menu thats easier to use and its where tablet apps run.
The start menu isnt essential. I rarely use the start menu now. You do not use windows 8, like windows 95.
I agree 100%. I love thew new advance menu, which you can get by right clicking the start corner as well btw.
Windows 8 is better than 7 in every way.
no, its not. Because now you can type movie names and have it find it on netflix
Wow, where did you ever come up with this brilliant observation?
windows 8 is not awful.
I have never said "gee, I wish my tablet had the same interface as a desktop OS". I don't know anybody else who owns a tablet who has said that.
Of course you've never said that, because its nonsense. I remember when iOS didnt even have cut and paste. Are you saying it was a bad idea to include cut and paste?
EVERY tablet user has said "This is great, but its limited" or "This is great, but imagine if i could do more, like run photoshop on this"
You have it backwards but you're right, no one has said "I wish my tablet had the same interface as a desktop OS". Thats why windows 8 has a tablet touch based ui as well as a desktop ui. If you want deeper functionality you can go into desktop mode, if not, you can use your tablet like any other tablet via a tablet ui. I dont see whats so hard to figure out about this, MS deserves credit for successfully pulling off something no one has done yet. You cant say Windows is bloated, when it can run on tablets and provide full desktop functionality. Its efficient, its faster than ever. Apple is already hard at work planning to do the very same thing.
If you're doing full blown photoshop, WTF would you want to be doing it on a tablet for? Everyone will say "god, I miss my long battery life".
Battery life is not an excuse to limit functionality as long as you have the option to plug things into a wall. The iphone battery life is terrible but it didnt stop it from being the amazing device it has become.
There are many situations when I as an artist would love to just draw on a tablet with pressure sensitive pen using autodesk sketchbook pro which is highly superior to the silly iOS app version which bares no resemblance to the full application. That is why Windows 8 is superior, because it can do both, and its up to you.
I use my tablet primarily for entertainment and light web surfing I'm not remotely interested in trying to get it bumped up to be a replacement/upgrade for my main desktop
Thats fine, but to deny the ability is now a user choice is just bad. Thats the great thing about windows 8, if you want it to be just a tablet os, it is. If you want more functionality out of it, its there. What you do with your devices is up to you, but the truth is, until last month, no one had the ability to run desktop apps, and do more on their tablet. Windows 8 provides you the option.
Microsoft has taken two concepts, jammed them together badly, and called it Windows 8. But if you like Win 8, feel free to use it -- my guess is most businesses are just going to skip right past this one, and I'm pondering buying a Win 7 box now so I don't need to deal with Win 8.
Have you used it? How do you know its different than windows 7? See thats the trick, its not. Windows 7 is far more different compared to vista or xp, than windows 8 is to 7. Windows 8 is virtually the same thing, minus the start menu redundancy. Its actually more efficient. I dont get what is so scary about the start screen. I rarely ever see or use it on my desktop. I'm serious. Its not as scary as you might think. Its a very well thought out OS. Its not as disjointed as you think. I use it every day, and I'm a 3d fx artist. I use it in the same exact way as windows 7, except now, I rarely use the start menu, because theres no need. The taskbar is what replaces it, and the start screen is there for those who need to fall back on, or to run tablet apps.
Advanced users will always use things as they were designed, while others will fumble through changes. I'm telling you honestly, I dont miss windows 7. I really dont. Windows 8 performs better, and there are even improvements in the desktop that advanced users will appreciate. The start menu was for mom, not for us.
And i've been there to see it all from c64s to apple2es, to pc's running dos, desqview, os/2, win31 all the way up to windows 8.
You're right. I remember the day when simply copying a file to a floppy disk would bring MacOS to its knees.
People just forget, they take so much for granted. I remember when the start menu was called "dumb" by computer geeks, and now they all miss it?
People are just too slow to change. They've never had to adapt... and now they have to slightly to enjoy an OS that is better in every way over windows 7.
I dont care about lazy users who are slow to change. Progress always drags some people kicking and screaming into the future eventually. Look at all the dumb religious people still convinced the world is 6000 years old. We've even had a celebrity who thought the world was fucking flat in the 2000s!!!!!! Meanwhile these idiots walk around with iphones.
People are just lazy. Smart people dont bitch and moan about a start menu change.
The sad truth is that there are just ignorant people in this world who refuse to try new things.
Windows 8 is not the problem. Windows 8 is actually very good.
Agreed.
On a technical level, windows 8 is superior to windows 7 in every way and the new ui changes are actually improvements. The people fighting change, just havent bothered to actually learn how to use windows 8, so to them "its different, so its bad". Notice that every idiot that shits all over windows 8, NEVER mentions performance being a problem. Its as if they dont even care that windows 8 is more efficient and faster than windows 7.
I'm sorry, but I dont judge an OS by how lazy a user is at learning it.
Who the fuck turns off their computer? :) Thats what sleep mode is for.
Microsoft just made the first FULL desktop OS capable of running on all devices including touch based tablets, and you find that to be a bad move?
APPLE is ALREADY fucking trying to figure out how to do with OSX. Will you bitch and moan next year when Apple does it? Or will you credit Microsoft for being the first to head in the direction where we ALL want to go.
An Ipad is a toy. When an Ipad can run full photoshop with pressure/tilt sensitive pen... everyone will say "this is brilliant"
mean while that is exactly what MS has just delivered to everyone this year. Apple will do it next year.
Logitech and wacom have devices that will do just that.