You paid for an X-Box? Sucker. My wife won one at a gaming competition.
It's a good thing, too, because the X-Box has proved nearly worthless compared to the gaming I've gotten out of my PC - or, hell, my *SNES*.
I own 6 X-Box games (Halo - which was free with the 'box - PGR, DoA3, BtVS, BG:DA, KotOR). I've rented maybe 5 others. I'm pretty sure that I've gotten more play hours out of KotOR (60+; 40ish the first time 25ish the second) than all the others combined.
Compare that with my PC - I'm a hardcore PC gamer. I probably play 40+ hours a week - a *MUCH* better $/play time ratio.
Ondo, part of the fallacy of your argument is that you assume these consoles are somehow written/built in such a way that makes its games imposible to emulate - or, rather, not possible to emulate as effectively.
The accomplishments of consoles are not impressive in any way compared with the PC. Take a look at what they do - they render an image to a television screen, at resolutions as low as 320x240. The XBox has 2xAA, maybe some of the others have similar features.
I run games on my P4 3ghz + Radeon 9800 512 in 1600x1200x32 with 4xAA and 16xAF. I routinely get >50 fps in every game I've played with these settings.
Take the popular PS2 game GTA:VC. It's rendered at 320x240 (correct me if I'm wrong here), and let's say it has 2xAA (/shrug). Compare it to the PC version on my comp: 1600x1200x32, 4xAA, 16xAF, >50fps in even the most intensive areas.
Unless you're telling me that something revolutionary happened when GTA:VC was ported to the PC, this leads me to believe that other console games can be ported as effictively, with a similar jump in image quality. Hardware power is not a limiting factor - quite the opposite, as this proves.
I can only see a couple reasons we don't see games cross-released for all platforms (PC, Mac, Linux / PS2, GC, Xbox) - #1, licensing agreements. Stupid, IMHO, because Game Publisher A reaches a much larger audience by releasing a game for *every* system instead of just one - though this is probably brought about by Sony, Microsoft, or Nintendo saying "you can't release this game for our system unless it's *only* for our system", or Microsoft's strong-arm tactics with games like Halo and KotOR.
#2, incompatible hardware across every platform - requiring either a hardware abstraction layer over the guts of the game (I'm not talking D3D HAL here, but it's done every so often - Savage will see a PC/Linux debut, Terminus had a relase for all three simultaneously, Soul Calibur 2 will see a release for the three consoles later this month), or whatever.
Porting back and forth is possible, though we see most Console -> PC ports from the PS2 (GTA, GTA:VC, Silent Hill 2) and most PC -> Console ports to the X-Box (Ghost Recon, Island Thunder). My theory for PS2 -> PC here is due to the game's popularity (on the popular PS2 makes for quite a blockbuster), and for PC -> X-Box is likely compatability.
So, if it can be done with some games, why not all games? It's certainly not hardware limitations on the PC's part. It's probably because it costs money to port games (new hardware layer required), and it's only "worth it" to the publishers of certain wildly popular games - or because one console has it easier than others.
Both of your examples seem pretty reasonable - and are much closer to what I consider "acceptable" side-effects. For a while (and I don't know how it turned out), there was a theory going around that stem cells could be harvested from healthy adults.
If possible, that seems like an ideal solution - have people donate stem cells along with blood every three months.
> "What these bioethics departments should be doing is trying to convince people that stem cell research is one of our best chances at curing many diseases."
Isn't the purpose of bioethics departments to study the ethical and moral implications of new discoveries and advances (as is suggested by the article), instead of picking a tech and shoving it down people's throats?
> "Yes, we should be doing stem cell research!"
Some people disagree with you. If it's a significant enough portion of the population, should we be listening to them or you?
In my (perfectly blunt) opinion, harvesting stem cells from human embryos is like growing rhinos to harvest their horns. You may not see a problem with either, but I'd like to find a better way.
Should I [be] forced to sit through them, as "payment" for watching the rest of the show?
FUCK NO
Sorry if I wasn't clear, but this is exactly my point - since they're distributing the content for free, who are they to tell anyone how it can or can not be viewed?
I think TIVO is brilliant, and I might pick one up to catch Family Guy at 11:30. Adult Swim doesn't include many commercials in the first place, but I ignore 'em anyhow, and it would be nice to skip them entirely.
As you point out, it's the media empires who should be forced to adapt. However, if we think they'll quietly think of a new method of distribution, we're dead wrong. They've shown us through their fight against file trading that they'd rather stifle innovation and "go back to the way things were" than try to adapt.
Likely, TIVO-like services will be one of the next targets. It's not a large stretch to go from "you can't edit our movies without permission" to "you can't edit our visual content without permission" - and where does that get us then? They have more money to solicit Congressional attention. Before you know it, editing out commercials will be "stealing".
I should have made my "purchasing" comment more clearly directed towards Cable / other pay services. Regardless, we've been facing this problem of "what is fair use?" for quite some time now. We're moving closer towards a society where you purchase pre-packaged "entertainment bundles" that have explicit use instructions whose violation carries criminal charges. You don't want that, I don't want that, but it's going to take a lot of people and a lot of dilligence to cut this thing off before it goes too far.
Yeah, the interesting thing about TIVO is the question: "To whom does the content belong?" First, you've got everyone involved the actual making of a television show, then you have the company that airs the show, and finally you've got the people who make the commercials.
Which of these is the protected medium? The show itself? The manner in which it is broadcast, and the commercials that come between it?
Preventing people from "fast fowarding" through commercials rapidly becomes a slippery slope. Do I still have the right to "mute" the commercials (it's a modification of the way they're intended to be shown)? Should I forced to sit through them, as "payment" for watching the rest of the show?
What if I turn the show on late, or it is interrupted due to some event?
Haven't I purchased the right to view the material sent to me? Or must I view it in the exact manner it was intended (timeslot, commericals, volume, and all?)?
I'm not rebuking you or anything, these are just questions I have.
I'm pretty sure that recording the radio and creating a mix tape aren't illegal as long as they're not for commercial puropses.
Since broadcast television and radio are free to anyone with a means of receiving the signal, how can recording it for non-commercial use be illegal?
I know that making a 1:1 backup of data you purchase (cds, dvds, vhs, etc) is legal - and likely the "mix tape" idea falls into the same category. As long as you've still got that CD you copied it from (and it's still in your posession, etc), it's fair use to use it yourself.
I think there's a big problem with companies whose implementation of copy protection prevents you from making these legal backups (ie, if by making your legal backup, you circumvent whatever protection scheme they used, and this violates the DMCA).
Then you are taking part in the conflict...
Only in the most superficial of ways. As you've said yourself, the Rebellion against the Empire is limited to "Overt Rebels being attacked by Covert and Overt Imperials and vice versa".
AFAIK, there's no reason to be taking part in the conflict. The Rebels can't liberate worlds from the Empire, and (in return) the Imperials can't wipe the Rebellion off of a planet.
Without achievable objectives, the conflict is pointless. It's like getting experience even though you'll never be able to level/get better, or mining something you can't use or sell, or crafting equipment that doesn't even serve a decorative purpose. Or like dancing/playing music in a cantina on a server where no one but you can log in.
For the most part, the war didn't affect every single person and many never took a side. Most of this is elaborated in the Expanded Universe.
I guess we've been reading different E.U. books. The Empire affected the vast majority of the galaxy, all the way to the Outer Rim. The SoroSub company of Sullust overthrew their government to forge a corporate agreement with the Empire - which proceeded to oppress the Sullustians into obscurity. Due to the animosity between the Quarren and Mon Calamri (who live together on the same ocean planet), a Quarren lowers the shield generator allowing the Empire to enslave both races.
Kashyyyk (the wookiee homeworld) is blockaded and most of the wookiees are enslaved.
The list goes on and on... it's not just one race, it's not just one sector of the galaxy. The Empire subjugated the vast majority of people, and nearly everyone lived under the iron thumb of the Emperor.
In the movies, we find out that Stormtroopers are willing to attack and kill Jawas - and then cover it up to make it look like Sand People - not to mention humans like Owen and Beru Lars. The figurehead of the Empire shows that he is willing to kill his own officers for the slightest infraction. It is heavily implied that Leia is tortured by Vader to learn the location of the Rebel base. Grand Moff Tarkin ordered the destruction of Alderaan, a planet full of pacifists. The leader of Cloud City (Lando) is threatened, and finally Cloud City is sized in the attempt to get four people and two droids. C3-P0 is destroyed for learning that there are Stormtroopers on Cloud City. Han Solo is tortured without being told why. He is then frozen in carbonite as a test to see if it will harm Luke, and finally he is given to a bounty hunter to deliver to a crime lord!
I think the people of Alderaan (for one) would disagree that life behind the curtain of war was pretty safe.
I don't see issues with people existing in Star Wars and not taking part in the conflict, nor should you.
Please refrain from telling me what to think. Thank you.
Your sarcasm is unneeded, and is misplaced. The vast majority of the films are centered around the conflict between the Empire and Rebellion... that is to say, battle scenes - evading the Stormtroopers while trying to get R2-D2 to Leia, fleeing the Death Star, the defense of Yavin IV, the defense of Hoth Base, Han & crew fleeing an ISD in an astroid field, Han & crew being double-crossed at Cloud City, Luke facing Vader, Lando double-crossing the Imperials, the Rebel attack on the second Death Star / the bunker housing the shield generator on Endor / Luke facing Vader for the second time.
It's a story about conflict. Here, I find the lack of conflict to be disturbing.
Quit being so unrealistic... Sure, the Empire was Evil and the Rebellion was Good... Both were also Lawful, which meant they couldn't run about willy-nilly killing everyone and everthing all the time.
I'm pretty sure my examples provide a good argument on how the Empire (as a whole) was NOT Lawful. Unless, that is, it's lawful to slaughter jawas, moistu
All of the reasons you are stating for disliking SWG and the rules that SOE have put into place have been argued for months and months... They came out with a wonderful system.
Heh, yeah, I've been an opponent of this systems since it was first mentioned on the message boards a looong time ago. And here's the thing: why do you think it's a wonderful system? I don't see any benefit to it, and I see more than a few flaws. And that's why I'm here - I'm looking to understand the point of view of someone who thinks it's okay/good/perfect/etc. ie, what makes it a wonderful system?
It works very well and I haven't seen any major issues with it at all...
Hrm... do you believe the alternatives (full pvp / no pvp) are a less optimal solution? Why or why not?
You don't see any issues with a "Star Wars" game taking place (essentially) without any conflict between the Rebellion / Empire?
So you were playing UO back when the whole place was PvP, right?
After playing so many full PvP games, going to one that's not seems so... pointless. Back when I played EQ, I used to have all this trouble with people stealing kills, taking camps, etc... they had this whole "play nice policy" so you could report people who did that.
Well, in games like UO and SB... you just deal with them. You can kill them for being jerks. When this isn't possible... it's frustrating and pointless, and I actually think that disallowing PvP encourages grief-centered behavior. People are a lot more polite when they know their arse might be on the line.
One of the problems with the whole "declared" PvP system in SWG is that it keeps the neutral folk safe. Not only are they left alone by the Empire (which is stupid, since the entire conflict is centered around the Empire oppressing the people), but there's the potential for a lot of abuse with the "Overt/Covert" thing / faction jumping.
If my Rebellion character gets shot by Jimmy Empirelover, I'm going to remember him - and if, one day later, I see him hunting falumpasets, I'm going to want revenge... but if he's "Covert" / neutral again, I can't do jack. Where's the justice?
Not to mention that, AFAIK, there's no point to PvP in SWG. You can't claim Imperial/Rebel bases, you can't change anything by your actions... there are no orders, no structure... so it's just a bunch of pistol-wielding people shooting at each other.
Seems to me like they just should have left PvP out entirely. Or am I uninformed?
And you'd be happy with the game if you had to play a human to join the Empire? Well, you're in a tiny minority then.
Would you like to be a Jedi? I'm sure the vast majority of players would rather have had the option of creating a Jedi character at startup, but V.I. elected to make it a "hidden" class.
It would have made the majority happy had they allowed it. But they didn't. Why? Supposedly, because it didn't fit in with the Star Wars mythos. Compare that with the decision to nerf the Empire into an equal-opportunity dictatorship, and tell me what that says to you.
It says to me, "well, we want as many people playing as possible, so lets F* the canon wherever we want. But, we also need a hook to keep playing playing - ah, Jedi, perfect!"
One thing people have complained bitterly about in EQ is the class/race restrictions. "But I want to be a Troll bard! Is that so wrong?"
That's because, at first, EQ stuck to Brad's "Vision". You'll note that the longer EQ has gone on, the more "restrictions" similar to that they've dropped. "Hybrids" no longer have an experience penalty. "Hell levels" went away. Casters don't have to stare at their spellbook to meditate. Why? They've needed some way to keep people around. They sacrificed integrity to keep players around (hello? Legends? "Upper-class EQ" should be the server's name).
Preventing non-humans from joining the Empire is *not* at all similar to preventing Wookiees from being Brawlers. And since the game is not centered around Player Conflict (/rude), it really doesn't matter what the masses want - it's still breaking the "laws" of the Star Wars universe, and makes this game a pale immitation of what it could have been.
And Wookiees were practically the most requested playable race when they were planning the game. I'm sorry it's not cannon, but see above about restrictions. It's still a *game* that people want to have fun playing.
So V.I., again, bent to the pressures of the player community and ignored Star Wars canon? This doesn't surprise me. I wanted to play a Wookiee, too. Your entire argument, so far, has been "screw whatever Star Wars says is right, and make it so you sell as many copies as possible".
While we're at it, let's give everyone "cheat codes" so they can become invulnerable! I bet that would be a highly requested feature! Or maybe infinite gold! Or XP at the touch of a button! People would *LOVE* that? I'm sorry, but the "it's a game" argument doesn't cut it when we're talking about something based around an already well-developed world with PRE-DEFINED rules.
Oh, in case you want to brush up on your wookiee info, "Despite their proven intelligence, Wookiees were enslaved by the Empire and exploited for their brute strength. Their homeworld was blockaded, and a free Wookiee was a rare sight in the galaxy."
OH, I'm sorry, it's just part of the Star Wars galaxy! V.I. doesn't have to follow it, because SWG is just a *game*. If you haven't guessed, that's sarcasm. But, hey, as long as V.I. doesn't claim that it takes place in the STAR WARS UNIVERSE, I guess it's not false advertisement.
Actually, hacking is one of the basic skills for the Smuggler class. It's called Slicing.
Yup, it was tacked on in the middle of Beta 3 and was never really explored. You'd know this if you tried testing it, because their trainers were broken right up until near the end - so it's largely untested, and not useful at all. The only current "practical" application of slicing is "opening locked doors" - feel free to tell me if you ever come across one.
V.I. stated that Smugglers "will not be more fully developed until the Space Expansion" - in a nutshell, it's pretty useless and untested.
You can always defend yourself. You can't always attack someone.
So if some loser comes up and attacks my camp of falumpasets, I can shoot
"The empaths could not fight, they'd lose their abilities if they hurt a creature." Uh... what? Maybe they changed it from GS3 to DR, but in GS3 when I got bored falling down from transfering severed legs (ha! I actually really enjoyed that) or misc. wounds from Treehouse jump-ers, I'd grab my custom broadsword and attack kobolds and rabid squirrels (because they were funny, and I could sever their heads).
I could always come back and keep on transferring wounds.
"SWG doesn't need as much driving, because it gives the players control over interacting with the world." So it's full PvP?...no. But I thought players had control?...no, they have control under a limited ruleset that's a bastardization of Star Wars.
Wait, let me say that again: BASTARDIZATION. That's right - because the Empire takes any funny-looking alien (when they're supposed to be xenophobic), Wookies roam the streets (when Kashyyyk is supposed to be under Imperial Control and *any* rogue Wookie is highly suspect), criminal activities are virtually impossible (nothing to hack, steal, smuggle, or swindle), you can't defend yourself or attack anyone unles they're a declared enemy of your affiliation (...as Aunt Beru / Uncle Owen were "overt" enemies of the Empire, hmm?), and you can't so much as take a landspeed for a spin - forget about anything that flies, hovers, or is capable of hyperspace (oh, wait, EXPANSION PACK).
The Jedi are extinct (are they even in the game? won't know until they're up for sale on e-bay), and Dark Jedi are slated for that ethereal Space Expansion. Except, of course, that Dark Jedi WANDER THE SANDS OF TATOOINE. Yeah... their light has gone out in the galaxy, but there are small pockets of them wandering out in the desert.
Right.
I'm sorry, what makes this game Star Wars? The fancy graphics? The brand name? Having Darth Vader sit around so you can pet him?
"People who go into SWG looking for a game they've seen before will not find anything" I'm looking for a derivitive game that takes a genre I know and love and turns it into a carebear, sugar-coated fantasy world where no one loses a hand, gets frozen in carbonite, finds out his first big crush/love is his sister, watches his mentor die, or finds out that the big nasty bad guy is his father. I haven't been this disappointed since the Star Wars Christmas Special. Watch, Bea Arthur will be the central point of the next Theme Park.
There is no "loot", because MOBs rarely drop anything. That's a fair assessment - saying the "loot" is the stuff you buy from other people isn't just wrong, it's not even close to the meaning of the word.
There is no "content", because players have to take the resouces at their disposal to make any sort of an interesting experience. Crushbone Factor: Zero means that the developers/designers didn't care to incorporate any sort of Quest-related system where you (even superficially) impact the world around you.
Oh, wait, we're playing Star Wars:Pest Control, I forgot.
At least Dathomir is still a little-known world under interdiction by the Emperor, preventing anyone on or off. Oh... wait.
Some of these things are little. Some of these things are huge. What they add up to is a game that isn't Star Wars - it's a passing affiliation. It's not canon, it's never going to be canon, and it won't ever satisfy the Hardcore Star Wars folks out there. I guess that's what the "Infinite Universes" logo represents.
"ITS A GOD DAMNED GAME DUDE CHILL OUT" It's not *JUST* a "GOD DAMNED GAME" - it's the first forray into a franchise. Do you think there would be a Dark Forces 2:Jedi Knight if DF sucked? Or Jedi Knight 2:Jedi Outcast if JK sucked? NO.
If SWG sucks, it's going to negatively impact the "prospective" future of Star Wars-based MMORPGs. ie, investors will be less likely to spend their money on a product whose predecessor failed to deliver the big bucks.
If SWG sells a billion copies, it's going to be the "new" standard that MMORPGs will be patterned after - and *I* think that Verant did a *CRAPPY* job implementing the Star Wars galaxy in SWG. I outlined why in my post. I've even got further comments if you'd like them.
So what do we have? If it sucks, people will be less likely to try again. If it succeedes, it does so on a dubious representation of a setting I know and love. So I lose either way.
Go back to eating your preprocessed garbage - pay the $15, play the derivitive gameplay, pander to the wishes of a company who BUTCHERED the world to maximize profits.
Thanks, Verant! Thanks, Lucas Arts! Keep stabbing your customers & fans in the back! And thank you, Naikrovek, for making it possible for them to continue doing it!
Well, I'm going to go ahead and run down a list of overpromised and undelivered features.
1) Vehicles (specifically player-owned/operated). No landspeeders, no speederbikes, no AT-STs, no AT-ATs. Yeah, you can get an AT-ST to follow you around and TEACH IT TRICKS, but that does not cound in any way, shape, or form. To be fair, it was stated about a month before release that vehicles wouldn't make it.
2) Dark Jedi. "To be added later". In fact, I'm going to go ahead and put "Jedi" in general here, because I'll believe it when I see it.
3) Space. Yeah, it was announced in the beginning that it would be in an expansion pack, so this doesn't really count - but what is STAR WARS without the STARS?
4) Player Bounties. Right now, Bounty Hunters are basically decorative.
5) An accurate representation of the Star Wars galaxy. All of the above play into this, as well as features that are uncontrollable (to REALLY do this may be out of the realm of possibility at the moment) - and thus they are forgiveable. HOWEVER, Verant has failed at the MOST BASIC LEVEL of represenation of the Empire.
"How's that?" one might ask. "There are Stormtroopers all over the place!" True. But ANYONE can join the Empire - any race.
One of the clearest representations of the Empire's evil is its intolerance for alien species of any sort.
This is not the Empire that enslaved Kashyyyk. This is not the Empire that forced Han Solo to chose between a career as an Officer in the Imperial Navy and the life of a Wookie slave. This is not the Empire that destroyed Mon Cal and forced the peaceful Mon Calamari to build the Empire's weapons of war. This is not an Empire that would provoke a civil war through its atrocities.
This is NOT Star Wars.
In short: despite the incredibly talented artists they have depicting Star Wars-like scenes, Star Wars Galaxies fails to capture the essence of the conflict between the Empire and the Rebellion, and thus Verant and Lucas Arts have failed to provide their fans with a Star Wars MMORPG.
You sure about that 'one step away' rule? Last I heard, it was something more along the lines of:
LG LN LE NG TN NE CG CN CE
With the 'extremes' (LG, LE, CG, CE) only allowing only the two same/neutral or neutral/same alignments. The 'moderate' (LN, NG, NE, CN) alignments allowing the three 'near' them (excluding the 'polar opposites' of their non-neutral side), and... 'True Neutral' only excluding the 'extremists'.
I could be wrong, but I thought that was how it was.
Uh, that's "Shadowbane in a guild full of 12-year olds".
Substitute "[city]" for "OOC:" and you've got "Everquest full of 12-year olds".
Substitute "[city]" for "broadcast" and you've got "Pick-A-MOG full of 12-year olds".
The secret is being selective in your recruiting process. Just as you give anyone a key to your house, don't let everyone in to your guild. It's that easy.
Maybe you missed the bit where it's Obi-wan who is training Luke the entire time?
Maybe you missed the bit where Yoda was with Luke every step of the way to make sure he was training properly?
I'm sure you've been on some sort of team sport before - the coach rides yer @$$ four days out of the week, and you rest on game day. He's with you every step - chewing you out when you screw up and giving you praise for a good play.
Football players don't go out and tackle people in the streets - or deer, or rats, or purse-snatching criminals - when they're training to become better. They participate with the rest of their team, and the coach is there making sure that they're doing it right ("Practice doesn't make you perfect, but perfect practice does").
My point is simply this - people don't develop from no-skill weenies to ultimate badasses by hitting rats with sticks unsupervised.
As for: "It's not an RPG, if you don't start off as nothing", I question how many RPGs you have played. Ever try Planescape:Torment (#6 PC RPG of the past several years)? Yeah, you start out *immortal*.
Baldur's Gate... Gorion doesn't kick you out of Candlekeep to kill local fauna. He's with you because he knows you'll die alone.
Final Fantasy 2 (4j)... Cecil doesn't wander off to kill some Imps before hitting up Mysidia for their crystals.
Yeah, in those games, you CAN walk around killing stuff to level - but you start off COMPETANT. You're not expected to wander around the nearest town killing things to improve your skill, because non-MMORPGs don't force you to do that!
I'm not even talking about instant equality - I'm saying that (most) MMORPGs *WOULDN'T NEED THE LEVEL TREADMILL IF THEY HAD ANY SUBSTANCE*.
Free your mind. Star Wars Galaxies should have been about the Galactic Civil War - not about Mos Eisley's War Against Womp Rats. Rebel and Imperial should been locked in combat from stepping off the backwater transport with turnips still behind their ears, while Neutrals try to make a buck amidst it all.
All it take is switching a point of view.
Instead of making me shoot rats to become a Marksman, let me join up with a squad of other Rebel troops and send us on a mission against Imperials. Sure, I can get better at shooting while I'm at it, but aren't I here to fight for freedom - or put down the uprising?
SWG = EQ No vision, SOE afraid to try something new.
You'll like Planetside. The only reason I haven't made my way there is because I'm stuck on Shadowbane. You aim, you shoot, you run, you jump, you drive vehicles and fly aircraft.
Maybe, one day, I'll pick you up in a galaxy and fly you to the front lines.
The reasons you've listed are exactly why this game is not Star Wars - it is EQ with a Star Wars skin.
The Dark Forces series are the *heart* of Star Wars. The X-Wing series are the *soul* of Star Wars.
Galactic Battlegrounds is what happens when you implant the heart and soul of Star Wars into a game format that doesn't like Star Wars. Neat, but could have been much better.
I really, really wanted this to be the heart, soul, and body of Star Wars - the grim outlook that Dark Forces had, the freedom of space flight, and the persistance and interaction of a MMORPG.
Instead, I'm attacking outcast citizens near Coruscant, watching Wookies dance to relax, and taking samples of strangely-named gases and metals when I'm sick of the other two.
It is the "Star Wars:Christmas Special" of Star Wars games. Hey, the gangs all here... disturbing me... ack.
"What's the point? Do my actions advance the plot? No, because there's no plot and no story."
I'm currently involved in an ever-growing plot cenetered around a vile alliance oppressing the server. They call themselves The Black Watch, and have bribed allies in most of the world.
We struggle against them daily, fighting the good fight, knowing that one day Evil shall Fall.
Sound like a plot? Sound like story?
That's a brief glance at the Dread server. The rise and fall of cities, nations, and empires is the bread and butter of Shadowbane.
"try the game yourself before you decide if it is good or not."
Foolish. If the game sucks, you're out $50 - AND you've only reinforced the fact that companies can release partially finished games and consumers will still buy, buy buy.
Instead, try WAITING TO READ REVIEWS. Yeah, that's right - give it three days, a week, or keep reloading http://gamerankings.com and see what the world thinks.
Also, check out the fan sites - they have no editor / corporation breathing down their necks to emphasise the positive. A combination of both these resources will yield a pretty fair representation of the gaming experience.
I was in beta. I wasn't thrilled. Why? Because it's only Star Wars on a superficial level; it's basically EQ with a Star Wars motif.
You're still entrenched in the pointlessly long level treadmill, except now spread your experience around to personalize your class a little bit. You still attack creatures for basically no reason; why are you attacking the large iguna-looking lizards outside of Mos Eisley? "Uh, aren't I supposed to?"
The crafting is pretty good, though (but I bought Europa 1400:The Guild, be forewarned). There are no NPC vendors to sell you items, so you're either making it yourself, buying it from a crafter, or picking it up off an NPC's corpse. You can make macros to save your wrists (at least for harvesting resources), but the level treadmill is just as steep via crafting as it is with combat.
Combat I found boring and repetitive - but I don't know if this was due to being unable to find people to show me the ropes / group with, or if I was appalled at the concept of running around hitting rats with sticks in the Star Wars universe. Don't we have Kung-Fu classes in a galaxy far, far away? I can't imagine Yoda spending weeks wacking slugs with a practice lightsaber to get where he is today. Why are we stuck on this stupid treadmill?!
Whoops, when I see sharing I think everyone involved in the process (host -> intermediary -> client). Since I'm not sharing anything, and I own the CDs the mp3s would have been ripped from, I guess I'm in the clear?
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You paid for an X-Box? Sucker. My wife won one at a gaming competition.
It's a good thing, too, because the X-Box has proved nearly worthless compared to the gaming I've gotten out of my PC - or, hell, my *SNES*.
I own 6 X-Box games (Halo - which was free with the 'box - PGR, DoA3, BtVS, BG:DA, KotOR). I've rented maybe 5 others. I'm pretty sure that I've gotten more play hours out of KotOR (60+; 40ish the first time 25ish the second) than all the others combined.
Compare that with my PC - I'm a hardcore PC gamer. I probably play 40+ hours a week - a *MUCH* better $/play time ratio.
-lw
Ondo, part of the fallacy of your argument is that you assume these consoles are somehow written/built in such a way that makes its games imposible to emulate - or, rather, not possible to emulate as effectively.
The accomplishments of consoles are not impressive in any way compared with the PC. Take a look at what they do - they render an image to a television screen, at resolutions as low as 320x240. The XBox has 2xAA, maybe some of the others have similar features.
I run games on my P4 3ghz + Radeon 9800 512 in 1600x1200x32 with 4xAA and 16xAF. I routinely get >50 fps in every game I've played with these settings.
Take the popular PS2 game GTA:VC. It's rendered at 320x240 (correct me if I'm wrong here), and let's say it has 2xAA (/shrug). Compare it to the PC version on my comp: 1600x1200x32, 4xAA, 16xAF, >50fps in even the most intensive areas.
Unless you're telling me that something revolutionary happened when GTA:VC was ported to the PC, this leads me to believe that other console games can be ported as effictively, with a similar jump in image quality. Hardware power is not a limiting factor - quite the opposite, as this proves.
I can only see a couple reasons we don't see games cross-released for all platforms (PC, Mac, Linux / PS2, GC, Xbox) - #1, licensing agreements. Stupid, IMHO, because Game Publisher A reaches a much larger audience by releasing a game for *every* system instead of just one - though this is probably brought about by Sony, Microsoft, or Nintendo saying "you can't release this game for our system unless it's *only* for our system", or Microsoft's strong-arm tactics with games like Halo and KotOR.
#2, incompatible hardware across every platform - requiring either a hardware abstraction layer over the guts of the game (I'm not talking D3D HAL here, but it's done every so often - Savage will see a PC/Linux debut, Terminus had a relase for all three simultaneously, Soul Calibur 2 will see a release for the three consoles later this month), or whatever.
Porting back and forth is possible, though we see most Console -> PC ports from the PS2 (GTA, GTA:VC, Silent Hill 2) and most PC -> Console ports to the X-Box (Ghost Recon, Island Thunder). My theory for PS2 -> PC here is due to the game's popularity (on the popular PS2 makes for quite a blockbuster), and for PC -> X-Box is likely compatability.
So, if it can be done with some games, why not all games? It's certainly not hardware limitations on the PC's part. It's probably because it costs money to port games (new hardware layer required), and it's only "worth it" to the publishers of certain wildly popular games - or because one console has it easier than others.
-lw
Both of your examples seem pretty reasonable - and are much closer to what I consider "acceptable" side-effects. For a while (and I don't know how it turned out), there was a theory going around that stem cells could be harvested from healthy adults.
If possible, that seems like an ideal solution - have people donate stem cells along with blood every three months.
-lw
> "What these bioethics departments should be doing is trying to convince people that stem cell research is one of our best chances at curing many diseases."
Isn't the purpose of bioethics departments to study the ethical and moral implications of new discoveries and advances (as is suggested by the article), instead of picking a tech and shoving it down people's throats?
> "Yes, we should be doing stem cell research!"
Some people disagree with you. If it's a significant enough portion of the population, should we be listening to them or you?
In my (perfectly blunt) opinion, harvesting stem cells from human embryos is like growing rhinos to harvest their horns. You may not see a problem with either, but I'd like to find a better way.
-lw
Should I [be] forced to sit through them, as "payment" for watching the rest of the show?
FUCK NO
Sorry if I wasn't clear, but this is exactly my point - since they're distributing the content for free, who are they to tell anyone how it can or can not be viewed?
I think TIVO is brilliant, and I might pick one up to catch Family Guy at 11:30. Adult Swim doesn't include many commercials in the first place, but I ignore 'em anyhow, and it would be nice to skip them entirely.
As you point out, it's the media empires who should be forced to adapt. However, if we think they'll quietly think of a new method of distribution, we're dead wrong. They've shown us through their fight against file trading that they'd rather stifle innovation and "go back to the way things were" than try to adapt.
Likely, TIVO-like services will be one of the next targets. It's not a large stretch to go from "you can't edit our movies without permission" to "you can't edit our visual content without permission" - and where does that get us then? They have more money to solicit Congressional attention. Before you know it, editing out commercials will be "stealing".
I should have made my "purchasing" comment more clearly directed towards Cable / other pay services. Regardless, we've been facing this problem of "what is fair use?" for quite some time now. We're moving closer towards a society where you purchase pre-packaged "entertainment bundles" that have explicit use instructions whose violation carries criminal charges. You don't want that, I don't want that, but it's going to take a lot of people and a lot of dilligence to cut this thing off before it goes too far.
-lw
Yeah, the interesting thing about TIVO is the question: "To whom does the content belong?" First, you've got everyone involved the actual making of a television show, then you have the company that airs the show, and finally you've got the people who make the commercials.
Which of these is the protected medium? The show itself? The manner in which it is broadcast, and the commercials that come between it?
Preventing people from "fast fowarding" through commercials rapidly becomes a slippery slope. Do I still have the right to "mute" the commercials (it's a modification of the way they're intended to be shown)? Should I forced to sit through them, as "payment" for watching the rest of the show?
What if I turn the show on late, or it is interrupted due to some event?
Haven't I purchased the right to view the material sent to me? Or must I view it in the exact manner it was intended (timeslot, commericals, volume, and all?)?
I'm not rebuking you or anything, these are just questions I have.
-lw
I'm pretty sure that recording the radio and creating a mix tape aren't illegal as long as they're not for commercial puropses.
Since broadcast television and radio are free to anyone with a means of receiving the signal, how can recording it for non-commercial use be illegal?
I know that making a 1:1 backup of data you purchase (cds, dvds, vhs, etc) is legal - and likely the "mix tape" idea falls into the same category. As long as you've still got that CD you copied it from (and it's still in your posession, etc), it's fair use to use it yourself.
I think there's a big problem with companies whose implementation of copy protection prevents you from making these legal backups (ie, if by making your legal backup, you circumvent whatever protection scheme they used, and this violates the DMCA).
-lw
Then you are taking part in the conflict...
Only in the most superficial of ways. As you've said yourself, the Rebellion against the Empire is limited to "Overt Rebels being attacked by Covert and Overt Imperials and vice versa".
AFAIK, there's no reason to be taking part in the conflict. The Rebels can't liberate worlds from the Empire, and (in return) the Imperials can't wipe the Rebellion off of a planet.
Without achievable objectives, the conflict is pointless. It's like getting experience even though you'll never be able to level/get better, or mining something you can't use or sell, or crafting equipment that doesn't even serve a decorative purpose. Or like dancing/playing music in a cantina on a server where no one but you can log in.
For the most part, the war didn't affect every single person and many never took a side. Most of this is elaborated in the Expanded Universe.
I guess we've been reading different E.U. books. The Empire affected the vast majority of the galaxy, all the way to the Outer Rim. The SoroSub company of Sullust overthrew their government to forge a corporate agreement with the Empire - which proceeded to oppress the Sullustians into obscurity. Due to the animosity between the Quarren and Mon Calamri (who live together on the same ocean planet), a Quarren lowers the shield generator allowing the Empire to enslave both races.
Kashyyyk (the wookiee homeworld) is blockaded and most of the wookiees are enslaved.
The list goes on and on... it's not just one race, it's not just one sector of the galaxy. The Empire subjugated the vast majority of people, and nearly everyone lived under the iron thumb of the Emperor.
In the movies, we find out that Stormtroopers are willing to attack and kill Jawas - and then cover it up to make it look like Sand People - not to mention humans like Owen and Beru Lars. The figurehead of the Empire shows that he is willing to kill his own officers for the slightest infraction. It is heavily implied that Leia is tortured by Vader to learn the location of the Rebel base. Grand Moff Tarkin ordered the destruction of Alderaan, a planet full of pacifists. The leader of Cloud City (Lando) is threatened, and finally Cloud City is sized in the attempt to get four people and two droids. C3-P0 is destroyed for learning that there are Stormtroopers on Cloud City. Han Solo is tortured without being told why. He is then frozen in carbonite as a test to see if it will harm Luke, and finally he is given to a bounty hunter to deliver to a crime lord!
I think the people of Alderaan (for one) would disagree that life behind the curtain of war was pretty safe.
I don't see issues with people existing in Star Wars and not taking part in the conflict, nor should you.
Please refrain from telling me what to think. Thank you.
Your sarcasm is unneeded, and is misplaced. The vast majority of the films are centered around the conflict between the Empire and Rebellion... that is to say, battle scenes - evading the Stormtroopers while trying to get R2-D2 to Leia, fleeing the Death Star, the defense of Yavin IV, the defense of Hoth Base, Han & crew fleeing an ISD in an astroid field, Han & crew being double-crossed at Cloud City, Luke facing Vader, Lando double-crossing the Imperials, the Rebel attack on the second Death Star / the bunker housing the shield generator on Endor / Luke facing Vader for the second time.
It's a story about conflict. Here, I find the lack of conflict to be disturbing.
Quit being so unrealistic... Sure, the Empire was Evil and the Rebellion was Good... Both were also Lawful, which meant they couldn't run about willy-nilly killing everyone and everthing all the time.
I'm pretty sure my examples provide a good argument on how the Empire (as a whole) was NOT Lawful. Unless, that is, it's lawful to slaughter jawas, moistu
All of the reasons you are stating for disliking SWG and the rules that SOE have put into place have been argued for months and months... They came out with a wonderful system.
Heh, yeah, I've been an opponent of this systems since it was first mentioned on the message boards a looong time ago. And here's the thing: why do you think it's a wonderful system? I don't see any benefit to it, and I see more than a few flaws. And that's why I'm here - I'm looking to understand the point of view of someone who thinks it's okay/good/perfect/etc. ie, what makes it a wonderful system?
It works very well and I haven't seen any major issues with it at all...
Hrm... do you believe the alternatives (full pvp / no pvp) are a less optimal solution? Why or why not?
You don't see any issues with a "Star Wars" game taking place (essentially) without any conflict between the Rebellion / Empire?
-lw
So you were playing UO back when the whole place was PvP, right?
After playing so many full PvP games, going to one that's not seems so... pointless. Back when I played EQ, I used to have all this trouble with people stealing kills, taking camps, etc... they had this whole "play nice policy" so you could report people who did that.
Well, in games like UO and SB... you just deal with them. You can kill them for being jerks. When this isn't possible... it's frustrating and pointless, and I actually think that disallowing PvP encourages grief-centered behavior. People are a lot more polite when they know their arse might be on the line.
One of the problems with the whole "declared" PvP system in SWG is that it keeps the neutral folk safe. Not only are they left alone by the Empire (which is stupid, since the entire conflict is centered around the Empire oppressing the people), but there's the potential for a lot of abuse with the "Overt/Covert" thing / faction jumping.
If my Rebellion character gets shot by Jimmy Empirelover, I'm going to remember him - and if, one day later, I see him hunting falumpasets, I'm going to want revenge... but if he's "Covert" / neutral again, I can't do jack. Where's the justice?
Not to mention that, AFAIK, there's no point to PvP in SWG. You can't claim Imperial/Rebel bases, you can't change anything by your actions... there are no orders, no structure... so it's just a bunch of pistol-wielding people shooting at each other.
Seems to me like they just should have left PvP out entirely. Or am I uninformed?
-lw
Cool, I will - thanks for the tip!
-lw
And you'd be happy with the game if you had to play a human to join the Empire? Well, you're in a tiny minority then.
Would you like to be a Jedi? I'm sure the vast majority of players would rather have had the option of creating a Jedi character at startup, but V.I. elected to make it a "hidden" class.
It would have made the majority happy had they allowed it. But they didn't. Why? Supposedly, because it didn't fit in with the Star Wars mythos. Compare that with the decision to nerf the Empire into an equal-opportunity dictatorship, and tell me what that says to you.
It says to me, "well, we want as many people playing as possible, so lets F* the canon wherever we want. But, we also need a hook to keep playing playing - ah, Jedi, perfect!"
One thing people have complained bitterly about in EQ is the class/race restrictions. "But I want to be a Troll bard! Is that so wrong?"
That's because, at first, EQ stuck to Brad's "Vision". You'll note that the longer EQ has gone on, the more "restrictions" similar to that they've dropped. "Hybrids" no longer have an experience penalty. "Hell levels" went away. Casters don't have to stare at their spellbook to meditate. Why? They've needed some way to keep people around. They sacrificed integrity to keep players around (hello? Legends? "Upper-class EQ" should be the server's name).
Preventing non-humans from joining the Empire is *not* at all similar to preventing Wookiees from being Brawlers. And since the game is not centered around Player Conflict (/rude), it really doesn't matter what the masses want - it's still breaking the "laws" of the Star Wars universe, and makes this game a pale immitation of what it could have been.
And Wookiees were practically the most requested playable race when they were planning the game. I'm sorry it's not cannon, but see above about restrictions. It's still a *game* that people want to have fun playing.
So V.I., again, bent to the pressures of the player community and ignored Star Wars canon? This doesn't surprise me. I wanted to play a Wookiee, too. Your entire argument, so far, has been "screw whatever Star Wars says is right, and make it so you sell as many copies as possible".
While we're at it, let's give everyone "cheat codes" so they can become invulnerable! I bet that would be a highly requested feature! Or maybe infinite gold! Or XP at the touch of a button! People would *LOVE* that? I'm sorry, but the "it's a game" argument doesn't cut it when we're talking about something based around an already well-developed world with PRE-DEFINED rules.
Oh, in case you want to brush up on your wookiee info, "Despite their proven intelligence, Wookiees were enslaved by the Empire and exploited for their brute strength. Their homeworld was blockaded, and a free Wookiee was a rare sight in the galaxy."
OH, I'm sorry, it's just part of the Star Wars galaxy! V.I. doesn't have to follow it, because SWG is just a *game*. If you haven't guessed, that's sarcasm. But, hey, as long as V.I. doesn't claim that it takes place in the STAR WARS UNIVERSE, I guess it's not false advertisement.
Actually, hacking is one of the basic skills for the Smuggler class. It's called Slicing.
Yup, it was tacked on in the middle of Beta 3 and was never really explored. You'd know this if you tried testing it, because their trainers were broken right up until near the end - so it's largely untested, and not useful at all. The only current "practical" application of slicing is "opening locked doors" - feel free to tell me if you ever come across one.
V.I. stated that Smugglers "will not be more fully developed until the Space Expansion" - in a nutshell, it's pretty useless and untested.
You can always defend yourself. You can't always attack someone.
So if some loser comes up and attacks my camp of falumpasets, I can shoot
"The empaths could not fight, they'd lose their abilities if they hurt a creature."
Uh... what? Maybe they changed it from GS3 to DR, but in GS3 when I got bored falling down from transfering severed legs (ha! I actually really enjoyed that) or misc. wounds from Treehouse jump-ers, I'd grab my custom broadsword and attack kobolds and rabid squirrels (because they were funny, and I could sever their heads).
I could always come back and keep on transferring wounds.
Cool system, though - I miss location damage.
-lw
...you went from playing UO to SWG and don't feel the incredible sucking of no PvP?
Wait... don't tell me you've drawn all your experiences from Trammel (Felucia? I can never remember which is no PvP).
-lw
"SWG doesn't need as much driving, because it gives the players control over interacting with the world." ...no. But I thought players had control? ...no, they have control under a limited ruleset that's a bastardization of Star Wars.
So it's full PvP?
Wait, let me say that again: BASTARDIZATION. That's right - because the Empire takes any funny-looking alien (when they're supposed to be xenophobic), Wookies roam the streets (when Kashyyyk is supposed to be under Imperial Control and *any* rogue Wookie is highly suspect), criminal activities are virtually impossible (nothing to hack, steal, smuggle, or swindle), you can't defend yourself or attack anyone unles they're a declared enemy of your affiliation (...as Aunt Beru / Uncle Owen were "overt" enemies of the Empire, hmm?), and you can't so much as take a landspeed for a spin - forget about anything that flies, hovers, or is capable of hyperspace (oh, wait, EXPANSION PACK).
The Jedi are extinct (are they even in the game? won't know until they're up for sale on e-bay), and Dark Jedi are slated for that ethereal Space Expansion. Except, of course, that Dark Jedi WANDER THE SANDS OF TATOOINE. Yeah... their light has gone out in the galaxy, but there are small pockets of them wandering out in the desert.
Right.
I'm sorry, what makes this game Star Wars? The fancy graphics? The brand name? Having Darth Vader sit around so you can pet him?
"People who go into SWG looking for a game they've seen before will not find anything"
I'm looking for a derivitive game that takes a genre I know and love and turns it into a carebear, sugar-coated fantasy world where no one loses a hand, gets frozen in carbonite, finds out his first big crush/love is his sister, watches his mentor die, or finds out that the big nasty bad guy is his father.
I haven't been this disappointed since the Star Wars Christmas Special. Watch, Bea Arthur will be the central point of the next Theme Park.
There is no "loot", because MOBs rarely drop anything. That's a fair assessment - saying the "loot" is the stuff you buy from other people isn't just wrong, it's not even close to the meaning of the word.
There is no "content", because players have to take the resouces at their disposal to make any sort of an interesting experience. Crushbone Factor: Zero means that the developers/designers didn't care to incorporate any sort of Quest-related system where you (even superficially) impact the world around you.
Oh, wait, we're playing Star Wars:Pest Control, I forgot.
At least Dathomir is still a little-known world under interdiction by the Emperor, preventing anyone on or off. Oh... wait.
Some of these things are little. Some of these things are huge. What they add up to is a game that isn't Star Wars - it's a passing affiliation. It's not canon, it's never going to be canon, and it won't ever satisfy the Hardcore Star Wars folks out there. I guess that's what the "Infinite Universes" logo represents.
-lw
"ITS A GOD DAMNED GAME DUDE CHILL OUT"
It's not *JUST* a "GOD DAMNED GAME" - it's the first forray into a franchise. Do you think there would be a Dark Forces 2:Jedi Knight if DF sucked? Or Jedi Knight 2:Jedi Outcast if JK sucked? NO.
If SWG sucks, it's going to negatively impact the "prospective" future of Star Wars-based MMORPGs. ie, investors will be less likely to spend their money on a product whose predecessor failed to deliver the big bucks.
If SWG sells a billion copies, it's going to be the "new" standard that MMORPGs will be patterned after - and *I* think that Verant did a *CRAPPY* job implementing the Star Wars galaxy in SWG. I outlined why in my post. I've even got further comments if you'd like them.
So what do we have? If it sucks, people will be less likely to try again. If it succeedes, it does so on a dubious representation of a setting I know and love. So I lose either way.
Go back to eating your preprocessed garbage - pay the $15, play the derivitive gameplay, pander to the wishes of a company who BUTCHERED the world to maximize profits.
Thanks, Verant! Thanks, Lucas Arts! Keep stabbing your customers & fans in the back! And thank you, Naikrovek, for making it possible for them to continue doing it!
-lw
Hah, that's exactly what I was trying to explain, except you kept it succinct =) Thanks!
-lw
Well, I'm going to go ahead and run down a list of overpromised and undelivered features.
1) Vehicles (specifically player-owned/operated). No landspeeders, no speederbikes, no AT-STs, no AT-ATs. Yeah, you can get an AT-ST to follow you around and TEACH IT TRICKS, but that does not cound in any way, shape, or form.
To be fair, it was stated about a month before release that vehicles wouldn't make it.
2) Dark Jedi. "To be added later". In fact, I'm going to go ahead and put "Jedi" in general here, because I'll believe it when I see it.
3) Space. Yeah, it was announced in the beginning that it would be in an expansion pack, so this doesn't really count - but what is STAR WARS without the STARS?
4) Player Bounties. Right now, Bounty Hunters are basically decorative.
5) An accurate representation of the Star Wars galaxy. All of the above play into this, as well as features that are uncontrollable (to REALLY do this may be out of the realm of possibility at the moment) - and thus they are forgiveable. HOWEVER, Verant has failed at the MOST BASIC LEVEL of represenation of the Empire.
"How's that?" one might ask. "There are Stormtroopers all over the place!"
True.
But ANYONE can join the Empire - any race.
One of the clearest representations of the Empire's evil is its intolerance for alien species of any sort.
This is not the Empire that enslaved Kashyyyk. This is not the Empire that forced Han Solo to chose between a career as an Officer in the Imperial Navy and the life of a Wookie slave.
This is not the Empire that destroyed Mon Cal and forced the peaceful Mon Calamari to build the Empire's weapons of war.
This is not an Empire that would provoke a civil war through its atrocities.
This is NOT Star Wars.
In short: despite the incredibly talented artists they have depicting Star Wars-like scenes, Star Wars Galaxies fails to capture the essence of the conflict between the Empire and the Rebellion, and thus Verant and Lucas Arts have failed to provide their fans with a Star Wars MMORPG.
-lw
You sure about that 'one step away' rule? Last I heard, it was something more along the lines of:
LG LN LE
NG TN NE
CG CN CE
With the 'extremes' (LG, LE, CG, CE) only allowing only the two same/neutral or neutral/same alignments.
The 'moderate' (LN, NG, NE, CN) alignments allowing the three 'near' them (excluding the 'polar opposites' of their non-neutral side), and...
'True Neutral' only excluding the 'extremists'.
I could be wrong, but I thought that was how it was.
-lw
Uh, that's "Shadowbane in a guild full of 12-year olds".
Substitute "[city]" for "OOC:" and you've got "Everquest full of 12-year olds".
Substitute "[city]" for "broadcast" and you've got "Pick-A-MOG full of 12-year olds".
The secret is being selective in your recruiting process. Just as you give anyone a key to your house, don't let everyone in to your guild. It's that easy.
-lw
Maybe you missed the bit where it's Obi-wan who is training Luke the entire time?
Maybe you missed the bit where Yoda was with Luke every step of the way to make sure he was training properly?
I'm sure you've been on some sort of team sport before - the coach rides yer @$$ four days out of the week, and you rest on game day. He's with you every step - chewing you out when you screw up and giving you praise for a good play.
Football players don't go out and tackle people in the streets - or deer, or rats, or purse-snatching criminals - when they're training to become better. They participate with the rest of their team, and the coach is there making sure that they're doing it right ("Practice doesn't make you perfect, but perfect practice does").
My point is simply this - people don't develop from no-skill weenies to ultimate badasses by hitting rats with sticks unsupervised.
As for: "It's not an RPG, if you don't start off as nothing", I question how many RPGs you have played. Ever try Planescape:Torment (#6 PC RPG of the past several years)? Yeah, you start out *immortal*.
Baldur's Gate... Gorion doesn't kick you out of Candlekeep to kill local fauna. He's with you because he knows you'll die alone.
Final Fantasy 2 (4j)... Cecil doesn't wander off to kill some Imps before hitting up Mysidia for their crystals.
Yeah, in those games, you CAN walk around killing stuff to level - but you start off COMPETANT. You're not expected to wander around the nearest town killing things to improve your skill, because non-MMORPGs don't force you to do that!
I'm not even talking about instant equality - I'm saying that (most) MMORPGs *WOULDN'T NEED THE LEVEL TREADMILL IF THEY HAD ANY SUBSTANCE*.
Free your mind. Star Wars Galaxies should have been about the Galactic Civil War - not about Mos Eisley's War Against Womp Rats. Rebel and Imperial should been locked in combat from stepping off the backwater transport with turnips still behind their ears, while Neutrals try to make a buck amidst it all.
All it take is switching a point of view.
Instead of making me shoot rats to become a Marksman, let me join up with a squad of other Rebel troops and send us on a mission against Imperials. Sure, I can get better at shooting while I'm at it, but aren't I here to fight for freedom - or put down the uprising?
SWG = EQ
No vision, SOE afraid to try something new.
-lw
You'll like Planetside. The only reason I haven't made my way there is because I'm stuck on Shadowbane. You aim, you shoot, you run, you jump, you drive vehicles and fly aircraft.
Maybe, one day, I'll pick you up in a galaxy and fly you to the front lines.
The reasons you've listed are exactly why this game is not Star Wars - it is EQ with a Star Wars skin.
The Dark Forces series are the *heart* of Star Wars. The X-Wing series are the *soul* of Star Wars.
Galactic Battlegrounds is what happens when you implant the heart and soul of Star Wars into a game format that doesn't like Star Wars. Neat, but could have been much better.
I really, really wanted this to be the heart, soul, and body of Star Wars - the grim outlook that Dark Forces had, the freedom of space flight, and the persistance and interaction of a MMORPG.
Instead, I'm attacking outcast citizens near Coruscant, watching Wookies dance to relax, and taking samples of strangely-named gases and metals when I'm sick of the other two.
It is the "Star Wars:Christmas Special" of Star Wars games. Hey, the gangs all here... disturbing me... ack.
Today is a dark day for the Rebellion.
-lw
"What's the point? Do my actions advance the plot? No, because there's no plot and no story."
I'm currently involved in an ever-growing plot cenetered around a vile alliance oppressing the server. They call themselves The Black Watch, and have bribed allies in most of the world.
We struggle against them daily, fighting the good fight, knowing that one day Evil shall Fall.
Sound like a plot? Sound like story?
That's a brief glance at the Dread server. The rise and fall of cities, nations, and empires is the bread and butter of Shadowbane.
-lw
"try the game yourself before you decide if it is good or not."
Foolish. If the game sucks, you're out $50 - AND you've only reinforced the fact that companies can release partially finished games and consumers will still buy, buy buy.
Instead, try WAITING TO READ REVIEWS. Yeah, that's right - give it three days, a week, or keep reloading http://gamerankings.com and see what the world thinks.
Also, check out the fan sites - they have no editor / corporation breathing down their necks to emphasise the positive. A combination of both these resources will yield a pretty fair representation of the gaming experience.
I was in beta. I wasn't thrilled. Why? Because it's only Star Wars on a superficial level; it's basically EQ with a Star Wars motif.
You're still entrenched in the pointlessly long level treadmill, except now spread your experience around to personalize your class a little bit. You still attack creatures for basically no reason; why are you attacking the large iguna-looking lizards outside of Mos Eisley? "Uh, aren't I supposed to?"
The crafting is pretty good, though (but I bought Europa 1400:The Guild, be forewarned). There are no NPC vendors to sell you items, so you're either making it yourself, buying it from a crafter, or picking it up off an NPC's corpse. You can make macros to save your wrists (at least for harvesting resources), but the level treadmill is just as steep via crafting as it is with combat.
Combat I found boring and repetitive - but I don't know if this was due to being unable to find people to show me the ropes / group with, or if I was appalled at the concept of running around hitting rats with sticks in the Star Wars universe. Don't we have Kung-Fu classes in a galaxy far, far away? I can't imagine Yoda spending weeks wacking slugs with a practice lightsaber to get where he is today. Why are we stuck on this stupid treadmill?!
YMMV.
-lw
Whoops, when I see sharing I think everyone involved in the process (host -> intermediary -> client). Since I'm not sharing anything, and I own the CDs the mp3s would have been ripped from, I guess I'm in the clear?
-lw