This is actually the important question though--if a machine can pass any turing test that a human can pass, what distinguishes humans from machines? When a machine is a more complex device, which is to say, a higher resolution image of a human than a human is, what does that mean for society?
And the best way to deal with that information is to allow for the machine having a "soul," that is, to accept it into society.
Note that having these super advanced AI "pass a Turing test" includes having them do things like run staff meetings, invent new machines, evaluate art subjectively, post trolls on 4chan, learn over time, etc. That is, they are capable of doing everything a human can do assuming they are given the right physical manifestation.
Not participating in a system is NOT the best way to change it.
I agree with an earlier poster in that if all the candidates are repugnant, vote for the challenger. If no candidate can continue as an incumbent, then at the very least none of their mainstream politics will be able to be taken as far. At best some candidate will appear with less repugnant policies.
However when voting on ISSUES rather than CANDIDATES, your argument does not hold. Either decision on a candidate may be bad, because a candidate will get into office. But the choice between enacting a policy and not enacting a policy is not as ethically neutral and WILL OFTEN affect you personally--for example a minimum wage change.
Voting does not give enough power to the people because of the electoral system, I agree. However, to leave the system entirely merely gives what little power there is to the people who don't see the flaws of the system--which could be dangerous.
I know I'm not going to convince anyone who doesn't vote to start voting, but for specific issues, for example defending network neutrality or more relevantly VOTING REFORM, it would be ridiculous not to at least try to voice your concerns.
pssst... hey, man, a linux live CD (in many cases, such as Knoppix, albeit not in such cases as gentoo) *is* a self-contained environment on a CD. Knoppix includes KDE, mozilla, OO.o, card games, and tetris (sorry, netris), and probably most of the programs you referred to.
I don't know for sure of Knoppix on dial-up specifically, which would probably be the situation for many people, but the Gentoo live-cd has automatically detected and set up networking every time I've used it on a networked box.
I would imagine that one thing that might be important is to include an autorun with an html readme to explain how to boot from the CD, and how to set up a dial-up connection in Knoppix. But I doubt there would be many problems with networking.
yeah, windows xp... except that it's unreliable, has VERY LITTLE software in the base install, takes a long time during which nothing can be done, is extremely unstable until updated, and extremely slow on older systems. Not exactly the eye-candy one would be looking for in a christmas card (or possible stocking-stuffer for geeks)
I understand and invite anyone to ridicule this answer, as I do not plan on making a logical argument, but to make allusions from my history class. I really should know better, but...
Thomas Jefferson did specifically state that he believed that the rural population had an inherent moral advantage; possibly because of the work ethic and simplicity necessary for such a lifestyle. This was said in an America with a 90-95% majority of rural population however, and I admit might have changed (thought the same could be said about the constitution with a little... well, with a hell of a lot more argument). Personally, I have more confidence in Thomas Jefferson, and that Madison would agree, than I do in Hamilton who wrote the federalist papers and supported monarchy.
Also, I would like to support the views of intelligent Americans, by posting short tests on the outsides of voting... places (it's late, sorry). 1. Who are the candidates, and which party is each in? 2. What are some of the issues? What are the candidates stands on them? 3. What is the biggest issue this election? 4. Do you actually have to answer any of these questions to vote?
anyone who actually knows the answer to the last question (i.e. anyone with any awareness of politics at all) would realize that the 'test' was meaningless, but maybe less stupid people would vote. Maybe...
Just to point out something--Rhode Island wasn't even at the constitutional convention. The senate was dubbed the "Connecticut Compromise" for reasons I hope I don't have to spell out; this however was also a continuation from the articles of confederation, emphasizing your point... I'd also like to point out that, as the constitution was a minority federalist movement at the time written by and in large part for the upper class, I would think that while those in favor of direct democracy will have to be able to support their arguments politically, I would give them the moral high ground philosophically... thought maybe that's just me and my indoctrination. ^^
I agree wholeheartedly.
Tom Bombadil was my favorite character in the series, and (as was pointed out elsewhere, I think on this site)
reveals a lot about the nature of middle earth, and of the ring.
by the way, it occurs to me that the entire series should be exempt anyways, as it was written in the 50's/60's, and the topic is best books of 2003.
More liberal in being more accepting of other religions--I have many Jewish friends, none of whom have ever tried to force Judaeism upon me, whereas Christianity always hails itself as the "One, true" religion. I would say generally geeks would really have a tendency to be Liberatarion Conservatives--conserned more with their own personal freedom than markedly liberal or conservative, however all of my geek friends and I are liberal, especially in terms of religions, because buddhism, taoism, and discordianism don't punish you for being stupid occasionally, "sinning", or sitting at a computer drinking soda all day ^_^
it occurs to me that this really should be in a different place than favorite books...
yes, you can see the true nature of slashdot. as geeks, the original social outcasts, there is a prominent tendency to rebel against the societal, political, and religious "right". As Christianity is the religious 'right,' it will be made fun of, whereas Judaeism, as a 'more liberal' religion, is respected. This functions in basically the same way that windows-dissing fucntions--I'd be willing to bet that half of the/. users use a windows system of some sort--I personally use windows 98--at least for compatability issues, but any of them would willingly and readily make fun of the bugs of windows. In both cases it's partially pointing out the obvious and inherent flaws, but partially being rebellious and hypocritical.
btw, if one notices how the ring managed to get found by gollum, one can probably assume that the string would break and the rat would fall, or the eagle would eat the rat or something--the hobbits had to carry the ring because they had willpower, and in small number so that they weren't seen.
Slashdot Mirror
This is actually the important question though--if a machine can pass any turing test that a human can pass, what distinguishes humans from machines? When a machine is a more complex device, which is to say, a higher resolution image of a human than a human is, what does that mean for society?
And the best way to deal with that information is to allow for the machine having a "soul," that is, to accept it into society.
Note that having these super advanced AI "pass a Turing test" includes having them do things like run staff meetings, invent new machines, evaluate art subjectively, post trolls on 4chan, learn over time, etc. That is, they are capable of doing everything a human can do assuming they are given the right physical manifestation.
Not participating in a system is NOT the best way to change it.
I agree with an earlier poster in that if all the candidates are repugnant, vote for the challenger. If no candidate can continue as an incumbent, then at the very least none of their mainstream politics will be able to be taken as far. At best some candidate will appear with less repugnant policies.
However when voting on ISSUES rather than CANDIDATES, your argument does not hold. Either decision on a candidate may be bad, because a candidate will get into office. But the choice between enacting a policy and not enacting a policy is not as ethically neutral and WILL OFTEN affect you personally--for example a minimum wage change.
Voting does not give enough power to the people because of the electoral system, I agree. However, to leave the system entirely merely gives what little power there is to the people who don't see the flaws of the system--which could be dangerous.
I know I'm not going to convince anyone who doesn't vote to start voting, but for specific issues, for example defending network neutrality or more relevantly VOTING REFORM, it would be ridiculous not to at least try to voice your concerns.
That's my justification for voting, anyway.
pssst...
hey, man, a linux live CD (in many cases, such as Knoppix, albeit not in such cases as gentoo) *is* a self-contained environment on a CD. Knoppix includes KDE, mozilla, OO.o, card games, and tetris (sorry, netris), and probably most of the programs you referred to.
I don't know for sure of Knoppix on dial-up specifically, which would probably be the situation for many people, but the Gentoo live-cd has automatically detected and set up networking every time I've used it on a networked box.
I would imagine that one thing that might be important is to include an autorun with an html readme to explain how to boot from the CD, and how to set up a dial-up connection in Knoppix. But I doubt there would be many problems with networking.
yeah, windows xp...
except that it's unreliable, has VERY LITTLE software in the base install, takes a long time during which nothing can be done, is extremely unstable until updated, and extremely slow on older systems.
Not exactly the eye-candy one would be looking for in a christmas card (or possible stocking-stuffer for geeks)
I understand and invite anyone to ridicule this answer, as I do not plan on making a logical argument, but to make allusions from my history class. I really should know better, but...
Thomas Jefferson did specifically state that he believed that the rural population had an inherent moral advantage; possibly because of the work ethic and simplicity necessary for such a lifestyle. This was said in an America with a 90-95% majority of rural population however, and I admit might have changed (thought the same could be said about the constitution with a little... well, with a hell of a lot more argument).
Personally, I have more confidence in Thomas Jefferson, and that Madison would agree, than I do in Hamilton who wrote the federalist papers and supported monarchy.
Also, I would like to support the views of intelligent Americans, by posting short tests on the outsides of voting... places (it's late, sorry).
1. Who are the candidates, and which party is each in?
2. What are some of the issues? What are the candidates stands on them?
3. What is the biggest issue this election?
4. Do you actually have to answer any of these questions to vote?
anyone who actually knows the answer to the last question (i.e. anyone with any awareness of politics at all) would realize that the 'test' was meaningless, but maybe less stupid people would vote. Maybe...
Just to point out something--Rhode Island wasn't even at the constitutional convention. The senate was dubbed the "Connecticut Compromise" for reasons I hope I don't have to spell out; this however was also a continuation from the articles of confederation, emphasizing your point...
I'd also like to point out that, as the constitution was a minority federalist movement at the time written by and in large part for the upper class, I would think that while those in favor of direct democracy will have to be able to support their arguments politically, I would give them the moral high ground philosophically... thought maybe that's just me and my indoctrination. ^^
I agree wholeheartedly. Tom Bombadil was my favorite character in the series, and (as was pointed out elsewhere, I think on this site) reveals a lot about the nature of middle earth, and of the ring. by the way, it occurs to me that the entire series should be exempt anyways, as it was written in the 50's/60's, and the topic is best books of 2003.
More liberal in being more accepting of other religions--I have many Jewish friends, none of whom have ever tried to force Judaeism upon me, whereas Christianity always hails itself as the "One, true" religion.
I would say generally geeks would really have a tendency to be Liberatarion Conservatives--conserned more with their own personal freedom than markedly liberal or conservative, however all of my geek friends and I are liberal, especially in terms of religions, because buddhism, taoism, and discordianism don't punish you for being stupid occasionally, "sinning", or sitting at a computer drinking soda all day ^_^
it occurs to me that this really should be in a different place than favorite books...
yes, you can see the true nature of slashdot. /. users use a windows system of some sort--I personally use windows 98--at least for compatability issues, but any of them would willingly and readily make fun of the bugs of windows. In both cases it's partially pointing out the obvious and inherent flaws, but partially being rebellious and hypocritical.
as geeks, the original social outcasts, there is a prominent tendency to rebel against the societal, political, and religious "right". As Christianity is the religious 'right,' it will be made fun of, whereas Judaeism, as a 'more liberal' religion, is respected. This functions in basically the same way that windows-dissing fucntions--I'd be willing to bet that half of the
btw, if one notices how the ring managed to get found by gollum, one can probably assume that the string would break and the rat would fall, or the eagle would eat the rat or something--the hobbits had to carry the ring because they had willpower, and in small number so that they weren't seen.