And they're doing pretty well so far, longevity-wise - my SlimDevices Squeezebox 3 has upgraded itself to the latest Logitech-branded firmware and works with a new Boombox, and the latest software & services of course.
That's exactly the kind of thing I was concerned about - thanks.
The reason I asked the question is that I've spent some hours digging around and I can't give you intelligent answers to most of those questions - because I don't fully understand the questions. I didn't know there was a difference between multiroom and multizone until I read your post.
What I had in mind was some sort of central unit which can stream my MP3s to the amplifier in the lounge and also to a number of units elsewhere in the house - preferably with the choice of "same thing in every room" or "different thing playing in the bedroom and the kitchen" so my wife can listen to something else. Ideally the units elsewhere in the house would be self-contained - I'm not really going to be in any position to tell the difference between 5.1 surround and just a basic output in the kitchen or bedroom so there's no point in going overboard.
So far I'm liking the sound of the Squeezebox solution but I'm wary of planned obsolescence - for instance, can a new Squeezebox boombox receive a stream from a 5-year old unit? Or have they messed around with the firmware to prevent that?
If a company doesn't consult with disabled people when developing their game/website, then those disabled people should use their money's talking power and go elsewhere. If 10% of the US players of EQII (the percentage of colorblind males in the US) quit playing EQII because of the aggro mob issue, Sony would probably take note.
That assumes a number of things:
That sales are 10% lower than anticipated.
That Sony makes a conscious effort to find out why.
That a number of colour blind people go out of their way to contact Sony and explain the issue.
The radar in speed cameras is even worse, so bad in fact that here in the UK the radar is not used in a prosecution. Instead they paint lines on the road and take two photos a short time apart to use the distance travelled relative to the lines to calculate speed.
Not strictly true. There are at least a couple of cases of people contesting a speeding ticket and discovering that the prosecution had gone ahead without actually checking the photos - which of course exonerated them.
Exactly what truly innovative stuff from Microsoft Research has seen the light of day?
Yes, I know that such research is expected to produce remarkably few results in the real world. But the closest thing to innovation I've seen is the ribbon toolbar in Office 2007.
Last time I read that article (yesterday), it noted that the enforceability of EULAs was not clear. The law in this case is not a simple case of yes/no, black/white. They have in some cases been upheld, and in others ruled at least partially unenforceable.
In the case of the great NE blackout 2003 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast_Blackout_of_2003 or if the terorists get organised and start blowing up power stations then the humble POTS phone will be the only thing left working.
Sometimes the more basic the technology the more reliable it is
If power stations get blown up, why do you think they'd ignore telephone exchanges?
Technically true, but it doesn't do you a whole lot of good if you don't have anyone on staff who has the remotest idea what to do once they have physical access.
Tough tooties. If 90% of your population is criminalized as a result of legislation you pass, perhaps you should reconsider that legislation? But that isn't what will happen. The people this law was written for (the content holders) will kick and scream until the government agrees to 'streamline' the process. And we'll be right back to DMCA or 3 strikes style laws.
Sounds remarkably like the behaviour of a 2 year old.
And what happens when a 2 year old gets their own way all the time? That's right, they become spokesmen for the world's recording and movie industry.
I freely admit that it sometimes seems to be pushing a religion rather than an OS (Software must be free at all costs!!!111), and I have never tried it as a desktop OS.
But as a server OS, I can honestly say I have never experienced any major issue - certainly none that was attributable to the Debian people. The automated configuration tools it provides (or, to be more accurate, usually doesn't provide) are pretty lousy but I've used RedHat, Gentoo and Mandrake and IME they all do a lousy job unless you configure them yourself.
The process must be approved by the FDA. You can be sure they will ask all those questions and some you haven't thought of.
I'm always very leery of that sort of assurance because I've heard very similar things from my own MP (I'm in the UK) and IME it invariably means "I have so much blind faith in the system that I'm not even going to take your query seriously enough to forward it on to the relevant people".
And it later transpires that the relevant people had not thought about it...
I wouldn't describe Debian as unmitigated garbage - if you use it for a server you have no need of a flashy GUI or top-notch video and wireless support and it excels there. That is, after all, the core focus of Debian.
Ubuntu, OTOH - I can take it or leave it. I've spent the last two days wrestling with Ubuntu myself for a specific project and I'm just about ready to jack it in and run Mandriva.
Why do you believe that you can enforce any contractual terms after money has changed hands? Especially when you cannot return your purchase for a refund?
Well, since you ask why I think EULAs are enforceable:
Let's stick to the original question, which is "Are EULAs enforceable?". It's not "Do you like the idea of them being enforceable?", nor is it "If you were going on gut instinct, do you think they are enforceable?". Talk of "enforcing contracts after money changes hands" is distracting (and in any case is fairly common after transactions between businesses).
Having taken just a cursory bit of research (Google is your friend), I believe that under some circumstances EULAs may be enforceable - certainly in the US where this is taking place. The Wikipedia article on Software License Agreements says:
"Whether shrink-wrap licenses are legally binding differs between jurisdictions, though a majority of jurisdictions hold such licenses to be enforceable. "
It then goes on to cite a number of cases, including ProCD v. Zeidenberg (holding that the license is enforceable because the user had to click "I agree" before they could use the software), and Specht v. Netscape Communications Corp. (holding that the license was not enforceable because the software could be downloaded and installed without reading it).
In short, I contend that it is not definitively settled one way or another whether an EULA is enforceable but under some some circumstances it would appear to be that it is.
Regarding your second point of not being able to return the product, IME (which is UK-based, YMMV) most law concerning purchasing things puts the onus on the purchaser to confirm that a product will meet their needs prior to purchase. You can demand a refund if the item is faulty or unfit for purpose, but the "unfit for purpose" bit would probably not wash if you bought something for a different purpose to that intended by the manufacturer unless you'd asked the retailer if the product would meet that requirement prior to purchase.
Just to muddy the waters, the Microsoft EULA states "If you do not agree, return it to your retailer for a refund" but under EU law AIUI (IANAL) Microsoft can't dictate the terms of a contract to which they are not a party (ie. the contract between retailer and purchaser when the purchaser buys a copy of Windows). I am not aware of any settled case law concerning the return of software - if push came to shove, I cannot imagine a retailer refusing a refund for software where the software itself was faulty if it were a choice between that or fighting it out in court.
Oh, and there are plenty of UK homes with 2-prong outlets also..
Really? I'd love to know where, because I've never in my life seen a 2-pin outlet in a UK home. Electrical standards have mandated 3 rectangular-pinned earthed outlets for about 50 years. Prior to that they were fairly similar but had round pins.
IIRC in the UK any device that has a conductive case parts requires a dedicated ground pin wiring to prevent shock in the event of internal mis wiring or internal wiring breaks/shorts to case.
You don't RC.
In very basic terms, every device requires at least two layers of safety. These layers can either be two layers of insulation ("double insulated") or one of insulation and one earth.
This applies right from the plug - so all appliance cables have two layers of insulation. Contrast this with the US where 110v cables frequently have only a single layer of insulation.
Slashdot Mirror
And they're doing pretty well so far, longevity-wise - my SlimDevices Squeezebox 3 has upgraded itself to the latest Logitech-branded firmware and works with a new Boombox, and the latest software & services of course.
That's exactly the kind of thing I was concerned about - thanks.
Hi, I'm the OP.
The reason I asked the question is that I've spent some hours digging around and I can't give you intelligent answers to most of those questions - because I don't fully understand the questions. I didn't know there was a difference between multiroom and multizone until I read your post.
What I had in mind was some sort of central unit which can stream my MP3s to the amplifier in the lounge and also to a number of units elsewhere in the house - preferably with the choice of "same thing in every room" or "different thing playing in the bedroom and the kitchen" so my wife can listen to something else. Ideally the units elsewhere in the house would be self-contained - I'm not really going to be in any position to tell the difference between 5.1 surround and just a basic output in the kitchen or bedroom so there's no point in going overboard.
So far I'm liking the sound of the Squeezebox solution but I'm wary of planned obsolescence - for instance, can a new Squeezebox boombox receive a stream from a 5-year old unit? Or have they messed around with the firmware to prevent that?
Why on Earth would he need to? The kid was a wizard - heck, he played by sense of smell.
If a company doesn't consult with disabled people when developing their game/website, then those disabled people should use their money's talking power and go elsewhere. If 10% of the US players of EQII (the percentage of colorblind males in the US) quit playing EQII because of the aggro mob issue, Sony would probably take note.
That assumes a number of things:
No, but if they were REALLY smart they could find somewhere convenient (like the middle of an EULA) that someone would be highly unlikely to read.
You're also not allowed to sub-license with a more restrictive license so that's out.
well i think that the gpl only requires you to serve up the source code *upon request*, so MS has not yet broken the law, i suppose.
You also have to offer the source code - you can't keep your mouth shut and hope nobody ever asks for it.
The radar in speed cameras is even worse, so bad in fact that here in the UK the radar is not used in a prosecution. Instead they paint lines on the road and take two photos a short time apart to use the distance travelled relative to the lines to calculate speed.
Not strictly true. There are at least a couple of cases of people contesting a speeding ticket and discovering that the prosecution had gone ahead without actually checking the photos - which of course exonerated them.
Back in the '90s Apple nearly went out of business. Today they act as another Microsoft research facility.
Exactly what truly innovative stuff from Microsoft Research has seen the light of day?
Yes, I know that such research is expected to produce remarkably few results in the real world. But the closest thing to innovation I've seen is the ribbon toolbar in Office 2007.
Last time I read that article (yesterday), it noted that the enforceability of EULAs was not clear. The law in this case is not a simple case of yes/no, black/white. They have in some cases been upheld, and in others ruled at least partially unenforceable.
So what are you trying to prove?
In the case of the great NE blackout 2003 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast_Blackout_of_2003 or if the terorists get organised and start blowing up power stations then the humble POTS phone will be the only thing left working.
Sometimes the more basic the technology the more reliable it is
If power stations get blown up, why do you think they'd ignore telephone exchanges?
Physical access is root access.
Technically true, but it doesn't do you a whole lot of good if you don't have anyone on staff who has the remotest idea what to do once they have physical access.
Tough tooties. If 90% of your population is criminalized as a result of legislation you pass, perhaps you should reconsider that legislation? But that isn't what will happen. The people this law was written for (the content holders) will kick and scream until the government agrees to 'streamline' the process. And we'll be right back to DMCA or 3 strikes style laws.
Sounds remarkably like the behaviour of a 2 year old.
And what happens when a 2 year old gets their own way all the time? That's right, they become spokesmen for the world's recording and movie industry.
Ah, wasn't thinking about shaver sockets.
That's the only 2 pin socket you'll see, and it's also the only type of socket you're allowed in a bathroom.
The reason it's allowed is that built into that socket is an isolating transformer.
No appliance other than something that's intended to live in the bathroom (a shaver or an electric toothbrush charger, usually) will plug into it.
What is it you don't like about Debian?
I freely admit that it sometimes seems to be pushing a religion rather than an OS (Software must be free at all costs!!!111), and I have never tried it as a desktop OS.
But as a server OS, I can honestly say I have never experienced any major issue - certainly none that was attributable to the Debian people. The automated configuration tools it provides (or, to be more accurate, usually doesn't provide) are pretty lousy but I've used RedHat, Gentoo and Mandrake and IME they all do a lousy job unless you configure them yourself.
The process must be approved by the FDA. You can be sure they will ask all those questions and some you haven't thought of.
I'm always very leery of that sort of assurance because I've heard very similar things from my own MP (I'm in the UK) and IME it invariably means "I have so much blind faith in the system that I'm not even going to take your query seriously enough to forward it on to the relevant people".
And it later transpires that the relevant people had not thought about it...
IT'S ALL THE FAULT OF BUSH AND BIG OIL!!! GO GREEN TODAY!! Help prevent the desert from falling into the ocean!
Why? It could do with some more water.
I wouldn't describe Debian as unmitigated garbage - if you use it for a server you have no need of a flashy GUI or top-notch video and wireless support and it excels there. That is, after all, the core focus of Debian.
Ubuntu, OTOH - I can take it or leave it. I've spent the last two days wrestling with Ubuntu myself for a specific project and I'm just about ready to jack it in and run Mandriva.
Why do you believe that you can enforce any contractual terms after money has changed hands? Especially when you cannot return your purchase for a refund?
Well, since you ask why I think EULAs are enforceable:
Let's stick to the original question, which is "Are EULAs enforceable?". It's not "Do you like the idea of them being enforceable?", nor is it "If you were going on gut instinct, do you think they are enforceable?". Talk of "enforcing contracts after money changes hands" is distracting (and in any case is fairly common after transactions between businesses).
Having taken just a cursory bit of research (Google is your friend), I believe that under some circumstances EULAs may be enforceable - certainly in the US where this is taking place. The Wikipedia article on Software License Agreements says:
"Whether shrink-wrap licenses are legally binding differs between jurisdictions, though a majority of jurisdictions hold such licenses to be enforceable. "
It then goes on to cite a number of cases, including ProCD v. Zeidenberg (holding that the license is enforceable because the user had to click "I agree" before they could use the software), and Specht v. Netscape Communications Corp. (holding that the license was not enforceable because the software could be downloaded and installed without reading it).
In short, I contend that it is not definitively settled one way or another whether an EULA is enforceable but under some some circumstances it would appear to be that it is.
Regarding your second point of not being able to return the product, IME (which is UK-based, YMMV) most law concerning purchasing things puts the onus on the purchaser to confirm that a product will meet their needs prior to purchase. You can demand a refund if the item is faulty or unfit for purpose, but the "unfit for purpose" bit would probably not wash if you bought something for a different purpose to that intended by the manufacturer unless you'd asked the retailer if the product would meet that requirement prior to purchase.
Just to muddy the waters, the Microsoft EULA states "If you do not agree, return it to your retailer for a refund" but under EU law AIUI (IANAL) Microsoft can't dictate the terms of a contract to which they are not a party (ie. the contract between retailer and purchaser when the purchaser buys a copy of Windows). I am not aware of any settled case law concerning the return of software - if push came to shove, I cannot imagine a retailer refusing a refund for software where the software itself was faulty if it were a choice between that or fighting it out in court.
UK current tech on the plugs hasn't changed much in 50 years. The only significant difference is the partial insulation on the prongs.
Though the legislation regarding the wiring circuit in the building itself has changed quite a bit.
Oh, and there are plenty of UK homes with 2-prong outlets also..
Really? I'd love to know where, because I've never in my life seen a 2-pin outlet in a UK home. Electrical standards have mandated 3 rectangular-pinned earthed outlets for about 50 years. Prior to that they were fairly similar but had round pins.
Rubbish, I've been shocked numerous times by 240v, and while it's unpleasant it's not as big a deal as you make it out to be.
If you're lucky, it stings and your arm gets thrown back. If you're unlucky, you are dead.
But saying that a 1.5V AA battery would kill you if it was wired directly into your heart.
IIRC in the UK any device that has a conductive case parts requires a dedicated ground pin wiring to prevent shock in the event of internal mis wiring or internal wiring breaks/shorts to case.
You don't RC.
In very basic terms, every device requires at least two layers of safety. These layers can either be two layers of insulation ("double insulated") or one of insulation and one earth.
This applies right from the plug - so all appliance cables have two layers of insulation. Contrast this with the US where 110v cables frequently have only a single layer of insulation.
Seriously, why don't you just post "Nothing happened today" in big letters on the front page?
UK plugs are about double the size, have significantly thicker pins and have a fuse built in.
Other than that, identical.