Plug vs. Plug — Which Nation's Socket Is Best?

CNETNate writes "Is the American mains socket really so much worse than the Italian design? And does the Italian socket fail at rivaling the sockets in British homes? This feature explores, in a not-at-all-parodic-and-anecdotal fashion, the designs, strengths and weaknesses of Earth's mains adapters. There is only one conclusion, and you're likely not to agree if you live in France. Or Italy. Or in fact most places." (For more plug pics and details, check out Wikipedia's list of the ones in current use.)

Comments

No.

[Anonymous Coward]

I did not agree with the tiny 10-page article that barely had enough substance for 1 physical paper.

Re:No.

[eldavojohn]

I did not agree with the tiny 10-page article that barely had enough substance for 1 physical paper.

It's worse than that. I hate to spoil the ending for you but he comes to the conclusion that the British outlet is the greatest with a 10 out of 10 score. Why? Safety features. Features like shuttering and built in fuses. Both of which are optional on American outlets as well -- I'm sure -- as they are on outlets around the world. Maybe they're standard in the UK but they're optional in the US. I'd rather have the option than even more regulation. Also, the picture for the US is ungrounded. I'm beginning to think this article was written by someone who's never really cared to understand the diversity of plugs in countries other than his own (which I would never use in the US and very rarely see). Nationalistic garbage is about all this amounts to. Yawn.

Re:No.

[Anonymous Codger]

I'll have to take your word for it seeing as how it's already Slashdotted.

Re:No.

[Enter the Shoggoth]

I did not agree with the tiny 10-page article that barely had enough substance for 1 physical paper.

It's worse than that. I hate to spoil the ending for you but he comes to the conclusion that the British outlet is the greatest with a 10 out of 10 score. Why? Safety features. Features like shuttering and built in fuses. Both of which are optional on American outlets as well -- I'm sure -- as they are on outlets around the world. Maybe they're standard in the UK but they're optional in the US. I'd rather have the option than even more regulation. Also, the picture for the US is ungrounded. I'm beginning to think this article was written by someone who's never really cared to understand the diversity of plugs in countries other than his own (which I would never use in the US and very rarely see). Nationalistic garbage is about all this amounts to. Yawn.

"I'd rather have the option than even more regulation": how stereotypically American.

"Nationalistic garbage is about all this amounts to": pot vs kettle methinks.

Re:No.

[FlyingBishop]

"I'd rather have the option than even more regulation": how stereotypically American.

Then how is it that Americans created Mac OS X while a Finn created Linux?

Re:No.

[GigsVT]

The 2008 NEC requires shuttering outlets in the US. It's just a matter of time.

Re:No.

[shadow349]

Features like shuttering and built in fuses. Both of which are optional on American outlets as well

Thanks to the electrical manufacturers, "shuttering" is no longer optional for residential installations that follow NEC 2008 or later (406.11).

Re:No.

[Anonymous Coward]

"I'd rather have the option than even more regulation": how stereotypically American.

Then how is it that Americans created Mac OS X while a Finn created Linux?

I think what you're looking for there is VMS, Unix, OS/2, etc etc etc vs 'a derivative work based on Minux, which is a workalike student version of ATT Unix'

Re:No.

[afidel]

They'll only potentially save you if they are GFCI, standard breakers will let you complete the circuit quite long enough to fry you.

Re:No.

[Rei]

I kind of like Australia's socket design. In the US, our NEMA sockets are designed so that a plug for a 30A socket can't plug into a 15A socket or vice versa. In the Australian design, a higher current plug can't plug into a lower-current socket, but a lower-current plug *can* plug into a higher current socket. Which only makes sense.

Of course, all of them are pretty weak compared to EV charging connectors like J1772. Designed for 10,000 connect/disconnect cycles, and the power pins don't go live until the data pins confirm a connection. And the data pins can talk with the device to determine what kind of power to deliver.

Re:No.

[rilister]

Well, OK, maybe we Brits are a little over-proud of our plugs. A Polish engineer I know called them "an insult to electrical engineers".

But seriously, where is someone explaining why some other plug is superior? In my experience US plugs get bent pins, can be woefully insecure in their sockets (literally dropping out) and the ground-nonground mixing that goes on on powerstrips seems clearly dangerous.

So (excluding British plugs) which plug would you choose to champion? Any?

I know it's not comfortable to admit that the US version of X is not the best in the world, but if you had another option that you preferred, I'd be more convinced.

Re:No.

[Dog-Cow]

In the Australian design, a higher current plug can't plug into a lower-current socket, but a lower-current plug *can* plug into a higher current socket. Which only makes sense.

I'm no electrician, but how is this remotely sensible? Either allow both directions or neither. At least that's sensible. Allowing one direction only doesn't make any sense to me.

Re:No.

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

A device with a high current plug needs more current than a low current socket can deliver. Allowing the user to plug it in would be(at best) useless and at worst result in firey death.

A device with a low current plug needs substantially less current than a high current socket can deliver. Allowing the user to plug it in works just fine.

It's like SAS vs. SATA controllers. SAS controllers can handle SAS or SATA devices and the keying is such that either can be plugged in. SATA controllers can only handle SATA devices, so they are keyed to prevent SAS drives from being plugged in.

Re:No.

[Rising Ape]

I'd rather have the option than even more regulation.

How can you object to something that improves safety and comes with no inconvenience whatsoever?

Re:No.

[RichardJenkins]

Capital! Socket to the Yanks, dear countryman.

Re:No.

[reub2000]

I'm not an electrition either, but it seems that a socket rated for 30A should be able to safely handle a device only drawing 15 amps, but a socket designed for 15 amps shouldn't be able to handle a device drawing 30 amps of current.

Re:No.

[the_lesser_gatsby]

I'm no electrician

Thank goodness for that!

Re:No.

[Skippy_kangaroo]

Think about it for just a minute and it might dawn on you - you don't need to be an electrician to get this. A 15A appliance will work in a 30A socket, but a 30A appliance won't work or will cause safety problems in a 15A socket. You don't want people plugging 30A appliances into 15A sockets and the socket design ensures this. It's kind of like backward compatibility - it only works one way and it should only work one way.

Re:No.

[init100]

Circuit breakers are not fast enough to save any lives, just fast enough to prevent a short.circuit from starting a fire. You need a ground fault circuit interrupter for a cutoff quick enough to save lives.

Re:No.

[Tarsir]

You claim to have read the article, and yet, on the first page one finds this little gem

So, let's take a 100 per cent objective* look at the plugs and plug sockets of the world"

Where the attached footnote read

*Objectivity in this sentence has a one-off, government-approved change in definition. Its meaning here, and only here, is the exact opposite of what it usually means.

I'm pretty sure the article was not meant as a hard-headed, detailed comparison of different plug styles. Of course, after reading that, and seeing that it was a 10 page article with approximately 2 sentences per page, I declined to read the rest of the article.

Re:No.

[hrimhari]

When a socket is for higher current, it doesn't mean that it always provides such high current. It means that it supports it if the device you plug requires it. So when you have a low current plug (and hence a low current device), you might appreciate being able to plug it into a higher current socket.

The opposite is not true, tho. When you have a low current socket, it can melt and cause fire if you try to use it with high current devices. Of course, your breakers will probably disarm first, but in any case you don't want to try that.

That's why both directions is not an option, while one direction is.

Re:No.

[initdeep]

and you do realize that the National Electric Code in the USA REQUIRES all circuits in Kitchens, Bathrooms, and Rooms which contain Water sources (like utility rooms) to have GFCI grounded circuits, and that a single GFCI outlet can protect all outlets wired in series after it..... right?

Oh and it has required these for many many moons....

Re:No.

[1s44c]

Fuse? Who needs that when the entire house is wired with circuit breakers. Fast enough to save your life if you drop the hairdryer into the bathtub.

Because the fuse trips at 2 to 13 amps and the circuit breaker will be way higher?

Re:No.

[Captain Splendid]

Mod parent up, please. The UK plug is far from perfect, but those thick prongs never bend. Compared to the utter frustration of the Canadian/US version, which has all the physical characteristics of a paper clip, it's a big selling point for me.

Re:No.

[1s44c]

Then how is it that Americans created Mac OS X while a Finn created Linux?

A computer scientist created Mac OS X and a computer scientist created Linux. That fact that one is a Finnish and one is an American had nothing to do with it.

Re:No.

[mrdoogee]

Interestingly enough, I was buying my house earlier this year and just as the negotiations were wrapping up, my Mortgage bank called me and told me that the previous owner would have to install GFCI outlets in the kitchen and bathrooms before they would finalize the loan. Even though my house was built in 1986 and had modern circuit breakers, my bank -- and as I understand it -- many others are beginning to make it a condition of the loan to have GFCI outlets. I'd assume that the law won't be far behind.

Re:No.

[hrimhari]

Here's what I think of the mentioned models:

• US: I like it, especially when it's not grounded and doesn't have horribly different sizes. And I'm from a country where the Europlug is the standard, and it's not France ; ) It's tendency to unplug only depends on the outlet. If it bends, you can unbend, so.. no problem there either. In fact, you can compensate for bad outlets by bending.
• Europlug: It's ok too, but can take a little more space than the US one.
• Australian: haven't tried it.
• Italian: haven't tried it.
• Dannish: haven't tried it.
• Brittish: hate it. It's enormous, makes it impractical to fork one outlet into many.

Re:No.

[BasilBrush]

How can you object to something that improves safety and comes with no inconvenience whatsoever?

He's American.

Re:No.

[sqrt(2)]

It's one of the core principles of Libertarianism!

Re:No.

[Turken]

Bendable pins are a feature, not a bug. They help keep the plug from falling out of the old loose sockets. And it's only old sockets in need of replacement anyway that are so loose that plugs can drop out.

Re:No.

[BasilBrush]

Brittish: hate it. It's enormous, makes it impractical to fork one outlet into many.

Nonsense. Pretty much everyone in Britain has at least some of their power sockets that they use with a 3/4 or more way splitter.

Re:No.

[hairyfeet]

Bah! Brits are just pissy because you all know that you would be speaking German if it wasn't for the big and bad USA saving your tea swilling Limey butts. Oh, and Monty sucked! if Ike would have let the great General Patton off the leash he would have taken the whole damned thing, but Ike was a politician and was trying to make it a "coalition effort", even though the USA didn't need the tea swillers anyway. Oh, and they are called FRIES dammit! Chips come in a bag that says Lay's on the side!

So you tea swilling, hot beer drinking, uppity Limeys just stay the hell away from our power cords! And keep your damned dirty metric system to yourselves! You can just keep that crap along with your baby cars that go on the wrong side of the road! How in the hell does anybody fit in a damned mini anyway? That ain't a vehicle, it is a fricking go-cart! It is a commie plot, that's what it is! You're trying to take away our freedom to drive really fast and get shitty gas mileage, which is in our constitution! What is a matter, don't you believe in freedom?

Re:No.

[Qzukk]

and that a single GFCI outlet can protect all outlets wired in series after it..... right?

Well now I know HOW using the outlet outside my house for the electric weed-eater trips the GFCI in the upstairs bathroom on the other side of the house.

Now all I want to know is WHY the hell they're on the same circuit.

Re:No.

[icebike]

Nowdays the code is requiring Arc Fault Circuit Interceptors, (AFCI) which are even more sensitive to sparking.

GFCI sense current to ground. AFCI can detect short circuits between two hots (on opposite legs of the 240 volt entrance), or one leg and neutral.

Neutral tends to be tied to ground at the main panel, which is why GFCI works for most cases.

Re:No.

[kanazir]

Well, as European, I can confirm that UK socket design is the best, at least in this part of the world. But, it is not because security features. It is because it is very, very easy to plug in! I really hate EU sockets as they are hard to plug in, especially when plug has only 2 connectors.

I swear every time when I have to charge my cell phone...

Disclaimer: I live in Serbia (EU sockets)

Re:No.

[dgatwood]

The U.S. plugs are generally pretty solid unless your connectors are bent. Normally, the only time you bend pins is if you A. step on the plug, or B. yank the thing out of the outlet in a dangerous way. I'd rather have the cord come OUT of the outlet when I trip on it than stay in, though, making the U.S. plug actually safer than the British plug precisely because of its lack of robustness. The British plugs are too big, too cumbersome, too heavy duty for normal consumer electronics. It's like they were designed for air conditioners. The outlet adapter for British power takes up the same space in my luggage as three of the two-pin European adapters that I use for 99% of my electronic devices.

Also, this article mistakenly claims that the British plug is the only one that guarantees you put the right pins in the right holes. That's not true. The U.S. has both three-prong versions that do this and polarized two-prong versions that also do this. Similarly, the Denmark plug also does this, as does the French three prong plug (the one with the ground pin sticking out of the socket), though apparently there aren't any standards for which pin should be neutral versus hot in the socket itself, making this superfluous....

The absolute worst ones, though, I do agree, are the European standard, but not for the reasons they give. They're awful because there are at least two or three different pin spacings that look identical until you realize that you brought the wrong one and it won't fit into the socket. And there are half a dozen different standards for the third grounding pin, which is why we have such a huge rash of travel converters that don't provide the third pin. (Go ahead. Try to find a travel converter with a ground pin. Why is it that way? Because of the lack of standards in European power connectors, primarily.)

The U.S. power connector should ideally have thicker prongs for the two main prongs, and I wouldn't object to reversing the design, using round prongs for hot and neutral with a thick, flat bar for ground so that you could potentially have greater surface area for the ground contact, and thus better grounding. That said, it's still a lot better than the British connector because it doesn't weigh half a pound just for the connector.... :-D

Re:No.

[damburger]

I have never in my 28 years seen a British plug fall out of a socket, no matter how old. The pins, as mentioned, are very chunky and do not bend.

Re:No.

[Seraphim1982]

Because circuit breakers are for the whole circuit and will often supply more current then the individual outlets (or items plugged into those outlets) can handle. I know I've encountered plenty of 15 amp outlets connected to 20+ amp breakers.

Re:No.

[icebike]

In the US, our NEMA sockets are designed so that a plug for a 30A socket can't plug into a 15A socket or vice versa.

The part after the "OR" is wrong.

15amp devices can be plugged into a 20 or 30 amp circuit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Electrical_outlet_with_label.jpg

Devices requiring 30amps would have one "blade" be a T connector. See photo.

Re:No.

[robwmc]

I'm truly amazed that he made all of the conclusions from the safety of his mother's basement.

Re:No.

[quickOnTheUptake]

The article also alleges that our (US) mains are only 110V, but in fact, IIRC, we typically have a 220V main (two 110's 180 degrees off) which can be run together to get 220V.

Re:No.

[icebike]

Grounded North American plugs generally don't bend that easily.

Some bending is designed in, so that a sharp sideways yank on the cord will bend the blades and allow the cord to disengage the outlet without tearing out the outlet and potentially shorting it.

The sooner we outlaw two prong plugs in North America the better.

Re:No.

[Darth Sdlavrot]

I kind of like Australia's socket design. In the US, our NEMA sockets are designed so that a plug for a 30A socket can't plug into a 15A socket or vice versa.

Well, it's not like we have too many things that use 110v 30A plugs that need 30A outlets. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a 110v 30A outlet in a house here in the US. More likely to see 220v 30A I'd guess. They seem to be common on RVs though.

OTOH 110v 20A is a lot more common, and you can plug a 110v 15A plug into a 110v 20A outlet; but you can't plug a 110v 20A plug into a 110v 15A outlet.

Re:No.

[BlackSnake112]

Brittish: hate it. It's enormous, makes it impractical to fork one outlet into many.

Maybe that is the point? To not overload the circuit?

Re:No.

[Eponymous Coward]

They put these in my home (in Texas) and I don't like them. Makes it way more difficult to insert the plug and it always feels like the little plastic shutters are going to break.

Re:No.

[Artifakt]

I live in a sixty-five year old American house, which is all circuit breakers, and was originally built with at least one set of 3 prong, grounded outlets in every room. It didn't come with enough outlets for modern needs, but what it had, were mostly implemented well - it would have been damned hard to electrocute yourself by dropping a radio into the tub even when the house was first built.
      I've replaced all the remaining 2 prong (non-polarized and non-grounded) outlets with 3 prong polarized throughout (Ground wires were provided to all the 2 prong boxes, and were metered by me to make sure during the upgrade, but every one was installed correctly by the original electricians). I've added GFI circuits to the baths and kitchen and removed two of the original 240 V circuits (the ones for the oven and dryer circuits, as we have a gas oven and dryer, and I needed the current for additional 120 V outlets), but that's about it. I still have a 240 V circuit that I upgraded in the 1970's from NEMA-10 series to NEMA-6-30 dual outlets, for some the basement power tools, but NEMA-10 was actually a very safe grounded system the way most contractors installed it, way back in the 1950's.
      (Usually, people put NEMA-10 circuits in to work with all metal cased large appliances, with the case wired to the third pin for ground, even though they didn't technically have to by code, and the ground technically was only for neutral on various AC Motors inside the cases.). Many appliances were manufactured only with this system already in place, and often came with instructions to make sure your home wiring had already been done compatibly. Sure, the code didn't actually demand all that, but the typical person wiring up their own 240 volt dryer probably RTFM'ed back then, and anyone who bought the kind of power tools I still have on 240 V and didn't, probably died when the 44" inch bed planer/jointer ate their arms, usually long before they managed to get electrocuted (And I shudder to think what kind of accidents are possible with the arc welder whether it's grounded right or not.).

        Comparing electrical codes doesn't tell you that much - at a guess, most places in the US that needed 240 seriously exceeded code back when NEMA-10 was common. The British code has ring-mains, and single drops off of rings. Supposedly, you're not supposed to wire a new line tee'd off of another line, just directly off of the main ring. How much would anyone bet that got followed often enough to make their systems actually safer?

Re:No.

[Dahamma]

What I find amusing with all of his boasting about "safety features" is that the real motivation behind the British outlet had little to do with safety in the first place - it had to do with economy.

Much of the electrical infrastructure in the UK was damaged during WWII and had to be rebuilt. Since there was a shortage of copper at the time, they decided that they could save wiring by putting the fuse in the plug and daisy chaining the outlets rather than connecting all of the outlets to a common fusebox. That also explains the mandatory covers: you really don't want to be shorting the outlet when there isn't a fuse to cut off the juice...

Re:No.

[Lonewolf666]

Then the electrician fucked up. He is supposed to know that breaker should not allow higher currents than the line and outlet can handle.

BTW, a fuse in the outlet will only protect against currents that are too high for the outlet. Unless said electrician also makes sure the mains line is strong enough. Also, you don't know in advance what is a normal current for the item you plug into the outlet. It may be much lower than what the outlet can handle. That is why many devices have built-in fuses in case of internal shortcuts, and don't rely on the circuit breakers alone.

Re:No.

[Anonymous Coward]

Because GFCI outlets cost $17, standard outlets cost $1, and code allowed that when my house was built in 1980. A GFCI outlet in my garage continues on to protect one outdoor outlet and three bathroom outlets.

Today, the bathroom outlets have to be on their own circuit, so if my house were built today, there'd be at least one GFCI outlet in one of the bathrooms.

Re:No.

[BigBlueOx]

Your sad devotion to those ancient electrical plugs hasn't given you clairvoyance enough to stop the Nazis from bombing your cities or helped you conjure up the stolen data tapes.

Hokey fuses and ancient plug designs are no match for a good American socket in your wall, kid.

If this is a news site for nerds, then why is this a flamewar about A/C plugs? Commander! Tear this site apart until you've found some nerds. And bring me the women, I want them alive!

Re:No.

[armanox]

I don't think any of the circuits in my house are > 15A (excluding the huge AC unit, which is 30A on its own circuit).

Re:No.

[jhoegl]

Freedom over putting someone else at risk? Ill take regulations thanks. When you get so many fires because morons overload the circuits or put the wrong kind of extension cord on their outlet... yeah, I have a problem with that. Regulations protect those of us that dont know from doing something stupid. Relate it to the current banking/loan fiasco... if we had kept the restrictions we would have been better off. And dont bring "learning" into this, we have repeated so many mistakes in the US government its not even funny. Iraq/Vietnam comes to mind.

Re:No.

[Artifakt]

And to clarify what fiery death means, the wire running to the outlet will try to deliver the demanded current, and it's typically too small a gauge to supply it without heating internally. The wire heats up, and either a breaker trips (or fuse blows), or a fire starts, somewhere in the home walls where you can't see it at first.
      You can get this with a typical room heater, drawing about 1750 Watts. at 110 volts, that's nearly 17 Amps, just a smidge more than the standard 15 Amp circuit is rated for. Put a couple of 150 Watt bulbs on the same circuit, and the circuit wiring will heat up. A 20 amp fuse or breaker on line only graded for 15 can be quite enough to let that heat get serious.
      There are tolerances built into the ratings - if you're not an electrician (or an EE who actually has some practical experience), please forget I said that, and believe there are NO tolerances built into the ratings.
        Don't get me started on aluminum wiring in mobile homes, and various other criminal practices still within the older codes.

Re:No.

[nsayer]

No, no, no. Americans created Unix, and a Finish college student created a pale imitation.

Re:No.

[Alanbly]

Mod parent up: funny as hell

Re:No.

[jo_ham]

British mains is rated at 13A for the standard sockets at each outlet, at 230V. You can run a pair of 3000W appliances right from the same double plug, hence the extra need to fuse the items you can hook up to those sockets.

While I think the earthed US plug with the extra earth pin is ok, the unearthed ones are just hopeless - the plug is just not secure enough for my liking at all, and if you have a transformer plug, or a converter plug so I can plug my british multi-voltage items in then it's even worse. The only way I found to make it work effectively was to use an extension cord and plug into that.

Re:No.

[clone53421]

But seriously, where is someone explaining why some other plug is superior? In my experience US plugs get bent pins, can be woefully insecure in their sockets (literally dropping out) and the ground-nonground mixing that goes on on powerstrips seems clearly dangerous.

They attempted to bring grounded plugs into wide-spread use, but it is difficult to totally eradicate the standard two-prong (polarized or non-polarized) plugs which were already in use in the US. This is the main source of the mixing that goes on, and it is largely unavoidable.

A well-built three-prong grounded plug will not fall out of the socket if the outlet is of similar quality. Furthermore, loose plugs can be easily tightened up by bending the prongs inward slightly so that they hold the plug into the socket more tightly.

Re:No.

[operagost]

Well, he also thinks that a country that loses many times more people to cancer than the USA-- and has people with life-threatening conditions on waiting lists for months-- has a great health system. So I agree with your assessment on his ignorance.

Re:No.

[operagost]

I didn't realize that Apple was an arm of the government. Well, I guess we can expect compulsory vegetarianism and black turtlenecks in the future! I can't wait!

Re:No.

[operagost]

I read the fact sheet and it lists items that children routinely plug into outlets: "paper clips, pens, safety pins, screws and nails, tools, wire, forks, tweezers, hair pins, keys, knives, coins". If you're leaving knives, nails, and hair pins around for your kids to play with, you have bigger concerns than your receptacles.

Re:No.

[pluther]

Other way around, I believe.
Building code requiring it came first.
Bank started requiring it later to make sure the building is up to code.

Re:No.

[geekoid]

An American created open source. A Finn couldn't figure out how to get write an OS and talked other people into doing it for him.

Are we going to keep doing this nationalist crap, or can we realize it take people from every country to progress?

Re:No.

[Anonymous Coward]

In US houses, we have many small branch circuits each with 5A or in some cases even lower limit circuit breakers.

Re:No.

[operagost]

Because it is inconvenient.

Re:No.

[Rei]

That is a special case in our system, not the general case -- the hybrid NEMA 5-15R/5-20R socket. And they're rare in homes, found mainly in commercial settings (and even there, they're not super-common).

In the general case, that sort of approach doesn't work with US sockets. For example, the standard for home dryer sockets is NEMA 14-30, while the standard for range sockets is NEMA 14-50. Can you plug a 14-30 into a 14-50? Not without an adapter you can't.

Re:No.

[Anonymous Coward]

And the "shutters" are trivially defeated by small children, even the really stupid ones who are presumably a greater danger to themselves. A few packs of those plastic outlet inserts that are a bitch to remove is a much better solution.

- T

Re:No.

[Anonymous Coward]

He used the GPL. Who created that? He also used tools from the Gnu project. And the basis of Linux? Something called Minix???

Hmm, wonder where those people came from....

NEW YORK CITY!

Well, it may be no good for Salsa, but it seems acceptable for software freedom.

Re:No.

[Rei]

Oh, don't get me started on 120V. It's a huge waste of copper and power that we only went with because it's easier to make a 120V incandescent lightbulb than a 240V. :P

Anyway, you won't find a 120V 30A outlet in your average US home because we run most higher power devices at (the more reasonable) 240V (although we do it in a weird way -- split phase). But even in that case, it'd still be useful. Homes usually have both 30A and 50A 240V sockets. But you can't plug a 30A into a 50A without an adapter, even though there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to. And you should also be able to plug a 120V plug into one phase of your 240V/30A or 50A sockets, but you can't do that without an adapter, either.

OTOH 110v 20A is a lot more common, and you can plug a 110v 15A plug into a 110v 20A outlet;

Only if you have a special 15A/20A hybrid outlet. The standard NEMA 5-20R doesn't have a T-shaped slot; it only has the horizontal on that side. This is the US trying to correct a weakness in our outlet system after it was discovered; it's a bandaid on the problem of having entirely different pin layouts on each socket. The Australian standard of having different pin *sizes* deals with this problem automatically.

Re:No.

[mrdoogee]

That makes sense, actually. My house last sold in 2007, and if the new code was passed in 2008, then I'd be the first owner to be required by the bank to have it compliant.

On a related note, I've since swapped the rest of the sockets out for GFCI, except for the garage, which is next on my list.

Re:No.

[hapalibashi]

The fuse isn't there to protect you its there to protect the installation/appliance. Circuit breakers cannot prevent any wiring between circuit breaker and the fault rated below the circuit breaker melting. Same reason many appliances have fuses inside.

Re:No.

[Anonymous Coward]

Somehow... you just know it in your bones, right?

Re:No.

[that this is not und]

or one leg and neutral.

You mean, like the short circuit created when I turn on a lamp plugged into the receptacle?

Re:No.

[geekoid]

"In my experience US plugs get bent pins, can be woefully insecure in their sockets (literally dropping out)

and British plugs never have any problems due to misuse?

The only time I've seen loose plugs in on old houses where the plug should ahve been replace years before. As for bent pins, it happens with cheap plugs, but bending them back is pretty strivial, AND they don't ahve to be perfectly straight to work.

Lets not compare improperly used and broken sockets, to fully working sockets.

Lets look at use and safety.

Re:No.

[jeffeb3]

But, if you were putting a lot of current into the negative conductor, then you actually will see a difference between the negative conductor and ground. If on top of that, you short to negative, then the GFCI will have some additional lag.

Re:No.

[pthisis]

The law has been there for a while. It just isn't retroactive--it's illegal to build new houses with non-GFCI circuits in kitchens/bathrooms/etc, and it's illegal to sell existing ones, but if you're living in such a house you're not required to update it until it changes hands.

Re:No.

[jeffeb3]

In my neighborhood (suburban Colorado) the houses were built in 1980, and there were no such requirements. The new code says any outlets within 6 feet need to have GFCI. I had to put them in my house, but they weren't required by law.

Re:No.

[icebike]

Well its rare to find a 30amp general circuit in a us home, its also rare to find a device you would want to plug into such a circuit. Almost nothing sold into the consumer market uses 30amps at 110volts.

So, you are correct, you seldom see these outlets in a home, although I've seen them in Garage/Shops in custom built homes.

Almost all houses are wired with 15 amp circuits with 14/2+Grnd wiring these days. Just seldom a call for much more as things get more energy efficient.

Dryers and Ranges are different situations. In every house these are special circuits, 220, two phase, separately breakered, seldom exposed (they are behind the device away from children with paperclips), and not meant for consumer electronics.

 

Re:No.

[shutdown -p now]

So (excluding British plugs) which plug would you choose to champion? Any?

Of those that I've used personally - Soviet, Euro, Australian/NZ, and North American - I liked the southern one most, strictly on the basis of convenience. It has 3 asymmetric pins, so you can grab it and plug it in correctly in one try without even looking at it, a feat I couldn't repeat with any other design. Plus, having a power switch on every plug is both handy and a good safety feature (and the switches normally also glow when turned on, so if you keep one that way you can find it in the dark).

Looking at pictures for British plug, it seems that its 3 pins are in a similar configuration, but there's no switch or glowing LED.

Re:No.

[icebike]

Exactly.

Which is why AFCI is coming into favor instead of simple GFCI.

Re:No.

[adamchou]

although a circuit breaker might not be super fast, it is still pretty fast. i'd say a sub second range. is a 110v jolt for a split second enough to kill people that aren't on pacemakers or that have serious heart conditions? not defending the usage of circuit breakers as safety here, just curious if my assumptions are corect.

Re:No.

[kraut]

> You're trying to take away our freedom to drive really fast

Yeah. 65! And only when the roads are straight, and wide enough for four cars ;)

Re:No.

[Dr. Evil]

"GFCI sense current to ground"

Nope, it's a toroid which generates current to trip a switch when there's a difference in the current between the hot and the neutral. It works just fine with no ground at all. The only time you'd have a difference between these at the outlet, is if current escapes the system through a path other than the outlet.

I looked into it when the electrical code forced me to replace the illegally retrofitted three conductor grounded outlets in my house with ground-fault circuits. It didn't make any sense to me without a ground... but lo and behold, they do indeed work with no ground at all.

Re:No.

[MPAB]

The issue with the banking/loan fiasco was more like having regulations on the plugs but at the same time encouraging the production of sub-standard, ungrounded ones for the poor to buy because "everyone has the right to enjoy electricity". Then blaming everyone but the State(TM) for the widespread fires afterwards and using this as a pretext to impose more regulations that will make the plugs even less affordable than before.

Re:No.

[Chuq]

Americans bagging Brits. As an Australian, I'm torn as to which side to take. I guess I'll just have to bag the New Zealanders instead.

Re:No.

[hrimhari]

You can still do it if you want, it's just aesthetically arguable to have a huge box (as opposed to this or this), protruding of the wall with plugs all around, so I'm not sure that's the point.

It's huge size is certainly not an asset. Just browse other comments for examples, especially how it becomes an unwanted volume for laptop power bricks.

The only pro might be the extra security. I won't argue that, but I can argue if all that security really pays for the inconveniences or if it's just redundant.

Re:No.

[lazybeam]

TFA had Australia's socket "upside-down" as the earth pin should be at the bottom. Also it neglected to mention that standard amperage is 10A, with a 15 version relatively common (and I've seen a 20A version used for a coffee machine). For those reasons it should have beat the Italians!

In other news, the Japanese voltage is only 100V, and half the country is 50Hz and the other half 60Hz.

Re:No.

[jcochran]

Nope. The electrician didn't fuck up.

If you take a look at the electrical code, and at the 15 amp outlets you're talking about you'll notice two things.

1. That 15 amp outlet is rated for 20 amps pass thru current.
2. The electrical code permits a 20 amp circuit to have multiple 15 amp outlets.

So if you want to see if the electrician did things correctly, check
1. Is the 20 amp circuit wired with 12 gauge copper wire or heavier?
2. Are there multiple 15 amp outlets on the circuit?

If both answers are "yes", he did things according to code.

Re:No.

[Rising Ape]

Actually, there are fewer cancer deaths in the UK per capita than the USA. And the "5 year survival" thing is mostly a statistical artefact caused by earlier detection in the US, which exaggerates the difference. Earlier detection will improve the 5 year survival stats even if it has no effect on the treatment or lifespan.

The waiting lists are typically for *non*-life threatening conditions. Life threatening ones jump the queue. Not to let facts interfere with your American superiority complex, or anything.

Re:No.

[paulatz]

Bullshit, you should try one of these non-lethal shocks before you decide. And mind that tension in Europe is generally higher that in the USA. Furthermore, even the best circuit breaker cannot save you if you get shocked between the two active wires. Personally I support the Italian plug, I find it very elegant and space-saving and all my plugs are like that.

Re:No.

[dan_barrett]

I live in Australia.
The 240V 10A / 15A plug design works well, and usually prevents you from plugging in anything rated over 2400W into a standard 10A plug.

15A appliances and sockets are fairly rare, almost all domestic devices are designed for 240V /10A. (2400W is enough for most domestic uses). As a result most houses only have 10A outlets.

The main problem with the 15A plug design is that is *looks* like it should fit, but it doesn't due to the larger earth pin. As you don't often come across a 15A device, Joe Sixpack thinks there's a problem rather than realising the appliance is designed not to fit.

Of course, idiots with a hacksaw handy can just grind down the earth pin until it fits, or cut it off entirely. (I've seen it done for an 3500W electric grill, and the resultant melted extension cord and blackened power outlet.)

Re:No.

[NerveGas]

Not only that, they lauded the Italian plugs for handling "up to 10 or even 16 amps". Any standard American plug will do 15, and for a couple of dimes more, you can get one that will do 20 amps.

They deride the American plug because an ungrounded (2-prong) plug can make the cord easy to pull out, laud the 3-pronged European plugs for being harder to pull out... but ignore 3-pronged (grounded) American plugs.

The shuttering that they say makes UK plugs better... is now mandatory in the USA.

I agree on the "nationalistic garbage" stuff. Maybe there's a bit of ignorance mixed in, but still... he just wanted to gripe about the Americans.

Re:No.

[hattig]

The shutters on UK plug sockets are built out of distilled Chuck Norris.

That's why the metal bits on the plugs are so fat and butch.

You can kill someone with a UK plug, and not only by leaving it lying around for someone to step on barefoot.

However it is a big plug, and a big socket. Someone did design a thin version though.

I liked Denmark's happy face design myself.

Re:No.

[Stooshie]

"I'd rather have the option than even more regulation" You'd rather have the option to buy a less safe plug!?!

Re:No.

[Stooshie]

"don't you believe in freedom?" Yes, the freedom not to be killed on the road by gas guzzling speedsters!

Re:No.

[ChrisMaple]

House circuit breakers are designed to trip in the region of many amps. Trip time is dependent upon the degree of overload; 100 A trhu a 10 A breaker will trip in a few milliseconds. Where the current is flowing through your body determines how much current is requires to kill you quickly (by heart failure). I've read that currents of an amp or more won't stop your heart from beating if the current is removed promptly. (It'll be painful as hell, may do some sort of permanent damage, and there's no guarantee the heart won't stop in particular instances.) Current figures like 5 mA, 50 mA are generally quite dangerous if they take a route through your body that includes your heart. These low currents can set your heart into fibrillation. Ground Fault Interrupters can trip at 5 mA in 25 ms, which should be quick enough.

Re:No.

[hattig]

Most British plug sockets have per-socket switches, but I haven't seen glowing LEDs (which would be quite annoying surely in bedrooms!). I have seen a couple of plugs with LEDs, but never a switch. The British plugs have thicker prongs, but have three-prongs as standard.

Re:No.

[OeLeWaPpErKe]

The issue with the banking/loan fiasco was more like having regulations on the plugs but at the same time encouraging the production of sub-standard, ungrounded ones for the poor to buy because "everyone has the right to enjoy electricity". Then blaming everyone but the State(TM) for the widespread fires afterwards and using this as a pretext to impose more regulations that will make the plugs even less affordable than before.

You know, the story doesn't end there. We've already restarting the "everyone has the right to electricity" stuff, and it's more obnoxious variation "blacks too".

Now if you will excuse me there's this little fire that the fire dept. seems to have trouble with ... what ? a hundred ? Well thank God the president said these ones will remain small ... if they grew we'd be in real trouble ...

Re:No.

[Xugumad]

> Well, he also thinks that a country that loses many times more people to cancer than the USA-- and has people with life-threatening conditions on waiting lists for months-- has a great health system.

Well, it's better than your free healthcare!

Seriously though, the really fantastic thing about the UK system is that it provides a baseline that you can't fall past. However bad things are, it's always there. Want better? Get medical insurance. For example, I pay Bupa ( http://bupa.co.uk/ ) £35-ish/month, which covers any tests I need done, and any surgery. That's not after an employer contribution, that's £35/month all in.

Re:No.

[The -e**(i*pi)]

I am not an electrician, but what happens when your device that needs 10-15 amps starts drawing 25A and melts its power cord since the breaker doesn't trip?

Re:No.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sure when your child sticks a knife into your unshuttered plug socket, you will be rejoicing at the 3 cents worth of plastic that you saved buying a cheap non-shuttered model. Damn that senseless regulation!

Re:No.

[confused one]

You realize that the American socket design dates back to 1908, don't you? It predates the British design by 40 years.

Re:No.

[Anonymous Coward]

The same Americans that invented the very computer and AC power that you are using no doubt.

Let's see, what has England ever done? Eating fish from newspapers, bad teeth/ears/hair and Captain Picard.

Re:No.

[ChrisMaple]

In the US, circuits commonly called 110 V or 120 V (etc) are actually a nominal 117 V. 1750/117 is 14.96 A, within spec for a 15 A circuit.
      Wiring usually has pretty good safety margins. Undamaged wires are unlikely to be a fire cause. Outlets can be damaged and the connection of the wire to the outlet can weaken or fail through corrosion. If you feel a power cord after using a heavy load, you're unlikely to feel much warmth. But if you feel the connector, the outlet, or the wall switch controlling the load, warmth is not uncommon and should be considered a warning.

Re:No.

[blackraven14250]

But kids will happily get their hands on pens, paper clips, random tools (screwdriver?), forks, tweezers, keys and coins. In fact, you would be amazed what kids get their hands on in the course of 30 seconds.

Re:No.

[Amorya]

The British plug is pretty indestructible. If you get in to a fight with one, it'll win. There's not much that misuse could do to it! I do recall seeing a slightly broken one once. It was an old bakelite one and the plastic had chipped slightly on the top half of the casing. Still didn't expose any wires and still went into a socket no problem. Actually, are plugs on American appliances user replaceable?

Re:No.

[dotgain]

You might want to check up your definition of 'short circuit'

Re:No.

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

The device should be fused internally at an appropriate amperage(i.e. just a bit more than it is expected to draw at maximum load; but less than the current that would render it unsafe).

If it isn't, your next of kin can use the life insurance money to buy a better one.

Re:No.

[nick0909]

Also all the US plugs are going up-side-down with the ground tube up top. It just looks wrong to me after seeing the little screaming face for so many years, but I guess that is progress. The idea being is something conductive fell down against the wall and knocked the plug half out, the first thing it would touch is the ground bar. Safer I guess, but lame looking.

Re:No.

[Anonymous Coward]

Not that you're entirely incorrect, but the G and the F in GFCI are a bit of a clue as to why the GP (and many others) call this a current to ground. If fault current doesn't return through the usual path, then it necessarily must go some other way. This is what a Ground Fault is.

Re:No.

[Culture20]

-1 Flamebait? I see what happened: the mod thought it said Flamerbait.

Re:No.

[bigngamer92]

How un-Nationalistic.What are you Metternich? Except instead of class we are based on our profession?

Re:No.

[myowntrueself]

and British plugs never have any problems due to misuse?

I'm not sure you'd call it a *problem* due to 'misuse', but British plugs make more effective weapons than most other nations plugs.

Swinging one of those things on a cable at someones head... yeah ok, 'misuse' but not so likely to harm the user.

Re:No.

[anon mouse-cow-aard]

but Kernighan and Pike are Canadians, so you're about half-right...

in other news, Canadians invented basketball, the minivan, the donut, and perfected bacon. Where would y'all be without us!

Re:No.

[MichaelSmith]

When I was single I got clever and built a power board to plug into the monitor power source on my PC's power supply. I had that power board running my modem, desk lamp, monitor, printer, etc.

Then I got married and one cold winter day my wife plugged a 2.4kW fan heater into the power board...

Re:No.

[jrumney]

Really? I find that wall warts in particular tend to fall out of British sockets, because the fat square pins do not tend to be gripped as firmly as US or Australian style flat pin plugs. The only plug that is worse for pulling itself out of the wall is the Europlug, in that case you don't even need the weight of a wall wart half the time.

Re:No.

[Aranykai]

Perfect bacon? Ha! You just got confused and mislabeled a cured ham hock.

American's invented the martini, the Altair and the light bulb. Enjoy your minivan :P

Re:No.

[metrix007]

Give your blind British patriotism a rest, eh?

Re:No.

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

Ouch. Was the computer a loss or did the PSU fuse dive on that particular grenade in time?

Re:No.

[Anonymous Coward]

The GP is confused. It doesn't glow, but it does have a painted fluoro-orange stripe that's only visible when the switch is in the "on" position. Also, FWIW, the plugs ARE switched on each wall panel, but powerboards are often un-switched (the nicer ones have one switch for the whole board, and you can only get the one-switch-per-socket on the deluxe surge-protected ones).
 
  Having looked at all the plugs, my favourite would have to be the Italian (symmetrical, grounded, compact and specced to a decent voltage/amperage), and my least favourite would have to be the US one (sorry, but it looks flimsy, delivers low voltage/amperage, and the fact that all safety features (grounding/per-plug fuses/GFCI) are optional/recent additions scares me). However, I've only played with the plugs (and not the sockets) of both, so I couldn't say for certain.

Re:No.

[myowntrueself]

Of those that I've used personally - Soviet, Euro, Australian/NZ, and North American

In Soviet Russia, Power plugs YOU!

Re:No.

[Anonymous Coward]

Where would y'all be without us!

Alive. I died in an accident with a minivan on the way to get donuts and bacon after a basketball game.

Re:No.

[MichaelSmith]

We only lost the power supply, though the case still has marks from the smoke.

Re:No.

[jabuzz]

Depends on the socket. The MK Logic Plus sockets in my house require depression from all three pins of a UK BS1363 plug simultaneously. Trying to do that with something other than a plug is next to impossible.

The fact remains is that the combination of shuttered outlets, fuses in the plug, and sheaved live and neutral pins make the UK BS1363 plug/socket combination electrically the safest in the world.

Whether that makes them the best is another matter entirely.

Re:No.

[belthize]

Because it's not to code. A bathrooms outlets must be on a circuit unto themselves.

Re:No.

[jabuzz]

So every device you plug into an outlet has a cable rated the same as the fuse/breaker at the consumer unit/fuse box/distribution board?

The scenario is the 3A rated cable in the cord to say a lamp develops a short and starts drawing 10A continuously. Without a fuse in the plug you have a fire on your hands.

Re:No.

[nosferatu1001]

All sockets have to be switched in the UK - building regs.

As the Earth is longer (top pin) it is quite easy to locate it in the socket.

Re:No.

[jabuzz]

In terms of electrical safety the British BS1363 plug/socket system is the safest in the world.

Whether this makes it the *best* is a different matter. They are for example far bigger than needed for the vast majority of appliances.

Re:No.

[jabuzz]

Funny, we have better life expectancy and better health outcomes. Heck even the lowest socioeconomic group in the UK has better health outcomes than the highest socioeconomic group in the USA. So statistically you will live longer and be healthier while you do so should you live in the UK compared to the USA.

But hay don't let facts get in the way, and remember that Stephen Hawkins would have been put to death by the NHS...

Re:No.

[Rei]

Almost nothing sold into the consumer market uses 30amps at 110volts.

You mean like RVs?

And don't get me started on our 110V/220V system, which is stupid in its own right. :P But if you really want to talk about dryers and ranges, you can't plug a dryer into a range socket without an adapter, even though there's no good reason why you shouldn't be able to. NEMA 14-30 vs. NEMA 14-50.

Re:No.

[Animaether]

and will happily poke them past the shutters - even if they're the better type where you need to press both shutters (i.e. pressing to only one will not open them.. unless you force past).

I thin I much prefer the combination of shutter and twist that you can stick in front of any EU socket:
http://www.prenatal.nl/RepositoryItems/veilig-stopcontact.jpg

That motion is a lot more tricky even for toddler. Beyond that, I'd imagine education ought to take over.

Re:No.

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry to give you sad news. Linux was created by student and not by scientist :P

Re:No.

[hairyfeet]

Yeah, now you know how we feel when somebody bring up Australia! on the one hand you gave us Mad Max, one of the best damned movies ever created in the history of everything, well that's good. But on the other hand you sent over Yahoo Serious and Paul Hogan, which should have been considered a war crime or something. I mean, what did we ever do to you?

Hogan was bad enough, especially when he just kept hitting that snooze alarm on his 15 minutes, but Yahoo Serious? That is like WMD level of evil there pal, and you guys didn't even say you were sorry. It is bad enough we got those damned Canucks letting their evil spill over the border, like that harpy Celine Dion, but what in the hell did the USA ever do to Australia to deserve the unleashing of Yahoo Serious? Didn't us helping you out against the Japs in WWII count for anything?

Re:No.

[Jarik C-Bol]

if you're going to defeat the safeties on an electrical plug, a cut off bit of electrical cord with the plug still on one in does wonders.
thats how i did it the first time. the wall heater i touched the live ends to never worked right again after that.

Re:No.

[gyroidben]

I'm fine with grounded american plugs, but the ungrounded ones never stay in the socket properly. They hang half out, while still live. It's impossible for me to vacuum the living room without creating a death trap for my kids. Shuttering w

Re:No.

[Jarik C-Bol]

it was not the *last* time i accidentally involved myself in the electrical circuit, but hey, some people die stepping out of the bathtub, and others take 11 bullets to the torso and walk to the hospital.

Re:No.

[fj3k]

That's shocking!

Re:No.

[Jarik C-Bol]

and all this makes the most fantastically horrid smelling smoke, and impressive large blue and white sparks. so yeah, don't go mixing and matching.

Re:No.

[Anonymous Coward]

I grew up in a house that had been last rewired during the Great Depression. (It was first wired for *lights* to replace the existing gas lines...)

So it could very well take some time to get everything up to 2008 spec.

Re:No.

[Jarik C-Bol]

as it turns out, large swaths of random cheep electronics *don't have internal fuses*
however, you can get a darn large number of free microwave ovens by looting the ones people set next to dumpsters and replacing the fuse they blew in it.

Re:No.

[fj3k]

LEDs and glow in the dark dots have been going in and out of fashion for decades. I saw one and thought it was new and exciting, then found another that was probably 20 years old...

Whilst I agree with how nice the symmetrical Italians' plugs look, if you look closer they have two different, and incompatible, sizes for different rating. Having not seen this in use I don't know how inconvenient that is (maybe not at all...); but I have extensive experience with the Australian way and like the way that's done here.

Re:No.

[WillDraven]

However, I've only played with the plugs (and not the sockets)

The story of many a slashdotter I'm sure...

Re:No.

[Miamicanes]

> Because it's not to code. A bathrooms outlets must be on a circuit unto themselves.

It depends. My house was built in 1982, and it had a single GFCI breaker that fed the outlets in both bathrooms, the garbage disposal, and the outdoor power outlets. However, when I gutted it to the studs & concrete, I redid all the bathroom's wiring, so they're now on a separate circuit. I even ran an extra neutral, so I could could make the two other second-floor circuits AFCI-protected. For the record, the biggest problem people run into when trying to retrofit AFCI breakers is the fact that every AFCI-protected 'hot' wire needs its own neutral, but most 20th century American homes run circuits with a single neutral wire shared by a pair of 'hot' wires between the circuit breaker panel and some outlet or switch box on the other side of the house where the two circuits diverge. It worked, because the two 'hot' wires come from opposite legs of the transformer, and it ironically decreases the current carried by the neutral wire to the panel (the two hot wires are always opposite in polarity, besides the brief moment every ~1/30 second when they're both at the zero crossing and equal). Unfortunately, if you share a neutral between two circuits, the AFCI breakers can't work.

Re:No.

[Jarik C-Bol]

by and large, if your not a total failure, and own a few screwdrivers, you can replace the cords on most anything. personally, i've taken to using 'appliance extension cords' for almost everything. they are a far heavier duty cord, and the plug is oriented so that the cord comes out the side or bottom, along the wall, vs sticking outward. The cords come as short as 3 feet, which is what i like about them. I plug my stuff into these, hide that plug behind something, and put the heavy duty cord into the wall. If i have to replace a cord in something, i use one of these as a replacement if possible.

Re:No.

[Anonymous Coward]

Because a plug that's twice the size is an inconvenience.

Re:No.

[anon mouse-cow-aard]

American's invented the martini, the Altair and the light bulb

everything you need for an all night hack! Thanks America!

Re:No.

[jeff4747]

It just isn't retroactive--it's illegal to build new houses with non-GFCI circuits in kitchens/bathrooms/etc, and it's illegal to sell existing ones

Not quite.

It is legal to sell a house that is not up to current code. All that's required is to disclose that the house does not meet current building code. (There are a few very rare exceptions to this. For example, the city of Los Angeles requires all houses sold in the city limits to have earthquake shut-offs on the gas line. But the electrical system can still be knob-and-tube.)

However, if you do any significant remodeling, your local municipality can require you to bring parts you remodel up to current code. Ex: if you remodel your 1963 kitchen (no GFCI), they're going to require you to put in GFCI outlets. But if you don't change anything you don't have to retrofit it.

OTOH, plenty of private entities can force you to bring the house up to code, including your bank, or your homeowners association. They can do this because when you sign your contract with them they stipulate it in the contract.

Re:No.

[neoprint]

Ah, New Zealand. Australia's Canada. Disclaimer: I am a New Zealander :D

Re:No.

[Anonymous Coward]

My choice would be the something like the Italian "Type L" plugs, with some modifications: make the ground pin longer so it can trigger a shutter mechanism in the socket like the British plugs, and maybe make one pin a blade or offset a few mm so that it's polarized. You'd get a plug that's smaller than either the UK or UK designs, and incorporates all of the safety features aside from the fuse. You could probably even incorporate a fuse without enlarging the plug too much, although that may be of little benefit outside the UK due to the different wiring practices.

As long as the standard has strict tolerances that actually get enforced, I wouldn't add anything extra for securing the plug in the socket. I've never had issues with plugs falling out of a decent-quality, non-damaged socket, unless you're counting wall-warts, which are frequently too heavy to stay plugged in to a wall socket... But those should be banned anyway. :)

Just wondering, what's so "clearly dangerous" about mixing grounded and ungrounded plugs in a power strip? An socket with an ungrounded 2-pin plug will leave the ground hole uncovered, but sticking something in the ground hole should be harmless anyway, right?

Re:No.

[fallen1]

Where would y'all be without us!

Still in the Garden of Eden you gullible... Oh, wait. Wrong joke - sorry :)

Re:No.

[Anonymous Coward]

After spending more time on Wikipedia, it looks like I described an IEC 60906 socket.

Re:No.

[Anonymous Coward]

Totally correct. The ground fault circuit interrupter, or residual current circuit breaker, detects the difference of current between the phase and the neutral and if it's above a value, commonly 5mA, it opens its contacts. On the other hand, circuit breakers respond to high currents to prevent fire.

Also, the article fails to mention that the European plug connects the ground first (because of its design).

Re:No.

[10Ghz]

I'd rather have the option than even more regulation.

How would regulation that mandates fuses in power-plugs harm you, a mere consumer? Or is this somekind of "I have god given right to use plugs without fuses!"-thingy? Seriously, what's the harm in having fuses in power-plugs, and what would be the harm in government mandating it? Doesn't government already mandate what kind of powerplugs and electrical system you have? Why aren't you complaining about that, and insisting on more options?

Re:No.

[Anonymous Coward]

Give them some credit. They sent their religious rejects over to found the US, and kept the Germans busy during both world wars while the US decided whether or not to get involved and finish them. And if they hadn't colonized the world and taught everyone English, we'd probably be conversing in Spanish or French or something. They've probably done a few other things too.

And seriously, Captain Picard? That alone is enough justification for their existence!

Re:No.

[bar-agent]

I find your lack of interest disturbing.

I think you'll find my appliances fully operational when the electricity arrives!

Re:No.

[pegdhcp]

Your bank wants to keep you alive, in order to receive your payment checks...

Re:No.

[Anonymous Coward]

Bah! Brits are just pissy because you all know that you would be speaking German if it wasn't for the big and bad USA saving your tea swilling Limey butts.

Psst. The Battle of Britain happened before the US entered the war.

Re:No.

[evilbessie]

This is England and the language is English, I fear you are incorrect in the use of our language, if you want to make the rules please use your own language.

Re:No.

[prockcore]

You can be proud of your plugs if you wish (although I'm sure you've stepped on one before and weren't so proud).. but you should not be proud that all your wiring is done as a ring circuit.

Re:No.

[uglyduckling]

Because the circuit breakers are rated to protect the circuit, the fuse is rated to protect the cable/flex/cord. A 2A flex/cord will catch fire if the appliance starts drawing 5A whilst the breaker will be perfectly happy.

Re:No.

[Anonymous Coward]

The plug itself in the UK has no switch, but EVERY socket has a switch for each plug socket. (some older power strips lacked switches for their plugs, but times are changing...)

Re:No.

[shutdown -p now]

Naturally, I didn't write it correctly in my original post - AU/NZ sockets have switches, not plugs. So it seems it's pretty much the same thing in the end then.

Re:No.

[1s44c]

Sorry to give you sad news. Linux was created by student and not by scientist :P

Actually I don't see any difference. Both students and scientists want to learn new stuff. Science is about learning stuff not academic qualifications and not the pay packet.

Re:No.

[Anonymous Coward]

Americans also supplied the Germans during WWII. Without the help from the richest Americans, who knows how much quicker that war would have ended?

Re:No.

[azzy]

> Limeys just stay the hell away from our power cords! And keep your damned dirty metric system to yourselves!

So.. you'd rather use the British Imperial system instead? Oh, ok!

Re:No.

[1s44c]

How un-Nationalistic.What are you Metternich? Except instead of class we are based on our profession?

I've no idea what you are talking about.

I just don't believe that when Linus sat down and started writing Linux he did so to prove Finland was better than the rest of the world.

The same with OS X.

Re:No.

[dangitman]

Joe Sixpack thinks there's a problem rather than realising the appliance is designed not to fit.

Don't you mean Bruce Sixpack?

Re:No.

[Anonymous Coward]

Whoooooooooooooooooooooooooosh!

Ooops, sorry, no, I meant Insightful! Very Insightful! Brimming over with Insight! Just like all the other Insightful idiots that flagged you Insightful.

Re:No.

[Neoprofin]

Too bad it all broke down when you let the Scots start speaking it too and everyone else started calling it "British English". (Not that I think what the Scots speak is anything close.)

Re:No.

[Anonymous Coward]

What cars? We drive toyota, honda, ford, bmw, nissan, vauxhall(GM), vw, audi, peugeot, etc. It's you lot that make our cars that drive on the wrong side, you b*****!

Re:No.

[Anonymous Coward]

americans love regulation, they absolutely adore being told what to do, without any options whatsoever. Just not by a government they elected themselves. But as long as you're doing it in the name of anonymous shareholders, you can tell anyone what to do.

Re:No.

[ifwm]

Because Americans are really, really gay.

Can't get a date from one huh?

Re:No.

[LizardKing]

Brits are just pissy because you all know that you would be speaking German

English is a Germanic language (Western Germanic to be precise).

Re:No.

[Anonymous Coward]

Americans bagging Brits. As an Australian, I'm torn as to which side to take. I guess I'll just have to bag the New Zealanders instead.

Sorry, we use the Australian plug too!

Re:No.

[Neoprofin]

Actually, there isn't. The mortality rate for common cancers such as prostate and breast cancer are almost twice as high in the UK. You don't even have to cherry pick search results! You will be satisfied that they do mention the early screening in the US, they also mention that 20% of treatable cancers become untreatable while sitting on waiting lists. Sadly I couldn't find the article I was looking for that also shows that the UK has more deaths caused by coronary disease as well. Shucks.

http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba649#_edn1

http://www.hoover.org/publications/digest/49525427.html

http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/_wsj_american_cancer_care_beats_the_rest.htm

Re:No.

[Malc]

Funny how yanks think the war would have been won without them, when really they waited until they knew they were going to be on the winning side. A bit of a tired joke don't you think?

Re:No.

[Malc]

Funny how yanks think the war wouldn't have been won without them, when really they waited until they knew they were going to be on the winning side. A bit of a tired joke don't you think?

Re:No.

[fuzzywig]

Don't forget that the queen is German (House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha).

Re:No.

[Anonymous Coward]

Fuck yeah! Don't mess with the free market! AMERICA!!

Re:No.

[Malc]

Fuses are dreadful as they take sometime to blow at their rated value.

Surely though a proper circuit breaker should trip instantly if the max load is exceeded?

The bending pins in N. America drive me nuts, and also the fact that you can't always tell immediately if you've got a polarised plug the right way around or you're having trouble because the pins aren't straight. And also that sockets (wall outlets, or individually on a power bar) don't normally have a power switch. It's really nice being able to turn things off individually without having to unplug them.

I sure wish N. America would run on higher voltage: it takes an age to boil a kettle because at a max of 13A, it's half the power of a kettle pulling 13A elsewhere in the world.

Re:No.

[Anonymous Coward]

Mini's weren't designed for americans... thats possibly why so few of them can fit in...

And what are these Lays you talk of? They're called walkers!

Re:No.

[slim]

The British plugs are too big, too cumbersome, too heavy duty for normal consumer electronics. It's like they were designed for air conditioners.

Kettles. What's the point in an electrical outlet, if you can't boil enough water for a pot of tea in a reasonable amount of time?

Americans seldom have electric kettles.
Japanese 110V electric kettles take forever to boil, and hence have elaborate insulation and thermostatic controls for "always on" hot water.

Re:No.

[FireFury03]

The same Americans that invented the very computer and AC power that you are using no doubt.

Let's see, what has England ever done?

Umm, you know that the first programmable digital computer was invented in England don't you?

Re:No.

[locofungus]

It's slightly more than "daisy chaining". Both ends of the "daisy chain" connect to the same fuse in the fuse box. This is called a ring main.

The cable is rated 15A, the fuse is rated 30A

This is why a spur has to have a separate fuse.

Lighting similarly. 3A cable, 5A fuse.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_circuit

Tim.

Re:No.

[PinkyDead]

Yeah, besides the drinking tea and screwing up Patton's plans and calling chips crisps and drinking tea and heating up beer and using metric system but not really using it at all and making tiny but really cool cars for stealing gold from the Italians and Jeremy Clarkson and drinking tea...

...what have the Brits ever done for us!?

Re:No.

[itsdapead]

Features like shuttering and built in fuses.

In the UK fuses are built into the plugs - so you can have a 13A fuse on your kettle and a 3A fuse on your phone charger.

I've always found it ironic that USAian domestic appliances tend towards big, brutal things 50% bigger than their UK equivalent, that look like they should connect to industrial 3-phase - but have these tinny little toytown plugs that spark like buggery when you plug them in.

Next: which country has the better system of flush toilets? :-)

Re:No.

[Rising Ape]

Three different conservative groups as a source? Hmm. I've learned to take stuff that comes out of such things with a more than a pinch of salt, whether they're left-wing or right-wing. "The Mission of the Manhattan Institute is to develop and disseminate new ideas that foster greater economic choice and individual responsibility"? They know the answer they want going in, and will pick evidence to find it.

The coronary disease is true, but not by a huge factor.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_dea_fro_can-health-death-from-cancer

Re:No.

[Eunuchswear]

He used the GPL. Who created that? He also used tools from the Gnu project. And the basis of Linux? Something called Minix???

Hmm, wonder where those people came from....

NEW YORK CITY!

Well, it may be no good for Salsa, but it seems acceptable for software freedom.

GPL - RMS, Cambridge, MA.
Minix - A Tannenbaum, FU Amsterdam.

New York? (Ok, AST is not so far from Haarlem, but,,,)

Re:No.

[Nitage]

Ah, but you use the same kind of plugs as NZ, so bagging the Kiwis won't help you here!

Re:No.

[raju1kabir]

Brittish: hate it. It's enormous, makes it impractical to fork one outlet into many.

Correct. I live in Malaysia, where we have to use these abominable British plugs.

A simple power strip is the size of a small car. I could fit 6 earthed Euro plugs, or about 15 earthed American plugs, into the space that gets me 3 or 4 chunky UK beasts.

I have wired my computer work are with US outlets so that I can plug in a reasonable number of things without filling 80% of the room with plugs and receptacles. It's easy to buy things with US ends on them and they're rated for 250V anyway.

And just wait until you step on a British plug. You'll be lucky to regain use of your foot after years of physical therapy. It's designed to go up in between the bones and pull them apart like a hollow-point bullet.

Re:No.

[raju1kabir]

I have never in my 28 years seen a British plug fall out of a socket, no matter how old. The pins, as mentioned, are very chunky and do not bend.

Are you serious? I go around the house every few days nudging all the elephantine 3-way UK plug adapters back into their sockets, because they slowly creep out until they reach a near-equilibrium point where they start buzzing and sparking because the malevolent mechanism inside the wall socket isn't sure whether to cut them off or not.

Re:No.

[Nitage]

British plug sockets almost always have a built in on/off switch. Sockets with a light that turns on when the socket is on are available but unusual.

Re:No.

[Eunuchswear]

Yeah, now you know how we feel when somebody bring up Australia! on the one hand you gave us Mad Max,

ITYM Mad Max 2. Mad Max (1) was shit.

Re:No.

[Civil_Disobedient]

But on the other hand you sent over Yahoo Serious and Paul Hogan, which should have been considered a war crime or something.

But they also gave us AC/DC.

And now we've come full-circle.

Re:No.

[Civil_Disobedient]

Because GFCI outlets cost $17

You are paying way, way too much for your outlets.

I mean, like, WAY too much.

Re:No.

[FireFury03]

Fuse? Who needs that when the entire house is wired with circuit breakers. Fast enough to save your life if you drop the hairdryer into the bathtub.

Because the circuit breaker won't save the appliance, its flex, or the plug. The master breaker here is 63A, with a 45A the ring main breaker, which will protect the fixed cabling. However, plugs are rated at 13A, so without a 13A fuse in the plug you could easily overload it. And since most appliances don't need anywhere close to 13A, it is usual to use thinner flex (e.g. a computer with a 400W PSU probably comes equipped with a 3A cable, so you need a 3A fuse in the plug to protect it). Then you have to think about the high voltage wiring inside the appliance - if it doesn't have its own internal fuse then the fuse in the plug is going to have to protect this too.

Re:No.

[Anonymous Coward]

Chinese ones.

They are kind of like a travellers dream. You can fit in Britisch, American AND euro plugs. They are not too safe though (I have it creating 5 cm blue sparks while pluging things here in shanghai).

Their voltage is also quite decent.

Re:No.

[Anonymous Coward]

Because no lives have ever been lost to a fire

Re:No.

[Darth Sdlavrot]

Anyway, you won't find a 120V 30A outlet in your average US home because we run most higher power devices at 240V (although we do it in a weird way -- split phase).

Perhaps, for some definition of weird. Center taps on transformers aren't exactly a foreign concept, and the 220v is, itself, single phase.

OTOH 110v 20A is a lot more common, and you can plug a 110v 15A plug into a 110v 20A outlet;

Only if you have a special 15A/20A hybrid outlet. The standard NEMA 5-20R doesn't have a T-shaped slot; it only has the horizontal on that side.

Not that special really. I can walk into any Home Depot, Lowes, electrical supply house, or even a well equipped hardware store and buy them. I'd hazard that my local Home Depot has more stock of the T-shaped version than the non-T-shaped version.

Re:No.

[james_shoemaker]

> Surely though a proper circuit breaker should trip instantly if the max load is exceeded?

    With the inrush currents when starting large electric motors instant triggering would be bad, it's continuous draw that's the problem. It takes time to heat wires so short duration overloads aren't a problem.

Re:No.

[vrillusions]

we need to come up with an appropriate tag for these types of articles. I don't even want to give them the satisfaction of a hit count so they can go "ohh look, we got a million hits to this article, people must love these multi-page advert-laden articles, lets do more!"

Re:No.

[Neoprofin]

The data they're citing is not reflected by the graph, nor does it agree with you.

http://www.irdes.fr/EcoSante/DownLoad/OECDHealthData_FrequentlyRequestedData.xls

Re:No.

[tb3]

Look on the bright side; electric kettles used to be illegal in the U.S. They were thought to be a fire hazard.

Re:No.

[hrimhari]

Oh, don't get me started on 120V. It's a huge waste of copper and power

Huge? Why? Can you point to some scientific references?

that we only went with because it's easier to make a 120V incandescent lightbulb than a 240V. :P

I'll have to take your word on that.

Anyway, you won't find a 120V 30A outlet in your average US home because we run most higher power devices at (the more reasonable) 240V (although we do it in a weird way -- split phase).

There's a reason for using split phase and it's not that weird. It creates two independent single phase circuits providing 110V and it can be used as one 220V circuit by replacing the neuter with the other phase. It saves copper, as opposed to your very first statement.

But even in that case, it'd still be useful. Homes usually have both 30A and 50A 240V sockets. But you can't plug a 30A into a 50A without an adapter, even though there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to. And you should also be able to plug a 120V plug into one phase of your 240V/30A or 50A sockets, but you can't do that without an adapter, either.

It's not clear to me what you're asking. You want a socket to provide both 110V and 220V and be able to plug such devices according to their needs? It seems a bit complicated in my opinion.

Usually when the system is defined to be 110V for most appliances and 220V for exceptions such as the dryer or maybe the stove, one gets 110V outlets everywhere and exception outlets where such appliances are supposed to be installed. Why would you want to make each and every outlet more complex to be able to support exceptional cases?

OTOH 110v 20A is a lot more common, and you can plug a 110v 15A plug into a 110v 20A outlet;

Only if you have a special 15A/20A hybrid outlet. The standard NEMA 5-20R doesn't have a T-shaped slot; it only has the horizontal on that side. This is the US trying to correct a weakness in our outlet system after it was discovered; it's a bandaid on the problem of having entirely different pin layouts on each socket. The Australian standard of having different pin *sizes* deals with this problem automatically.

You lost me. If I understand the T-shaped slot correctly, it's supposed to be a higher current slot that still allows you to plug lower current devices in it. What's the problem with that?

Re:No.

[Rising Ape]

This is offtopic now, but the difference between your source and mine is rather confusing. Even going with yours though, the difference in cancer death rates is small (10%) and overall lifespan is larger in the UK anyway. There's certainly no evidence for the original claim that the UK "oses many times more people to cancer than the USA".

Your source also indicates that the USA spends more than twice as much per capita on health care as the UK. Given that, I'm surprised the gap is as small as it is, and suggests that America does well by brute force spending rather than having any kind of superior system.

Re:No.

[Yunzil]

In my experience US plugs get bent pins, can be woefully insecure in their sockets (literally dropping out)

I have a set of US-to-CountryX plug adapters, and I once used the UK adapter so I could plug in my cell phone charger. It would just barely stay in the socket. By that I mean it was leaning out of the socket far enough that I could see the pins. So in my experience your sockets don't hold things any better than ours do.

Re:No.

[Yunzil]

Regulation is for pussies, you insensitive Euroclod.

Re:No.

[Rei]

Perhaps, for some definition of weird. Center taps on transformers aren't exactly a foreign concept, and the 220v is, itself, single phase.

No, it isn't. It's split phase, which is different from single phase. The hots are 240V relative to each other, but only 120V relative to ground. And it's a hack to deal with our current 120V system.

I'd hazard that my local Home Depot has more stock of the T-shaped version than the non-T-shaped version.

More stock of the T-shaped than 5-20R, but certainly not 5-15R. Because of the way our system works, it's more common in homes to find 5-15Rs without a T-connector wired for 20A, even though that's not what they're officially rated for. For example, hair dryers at full blast and heat push dangerously close to the limits of a 5-15R (and some even over them), yet still use a 5-15 plug -- but they're okay because we wire our bathroom 5-15s with a 20A breaker. Same with garage, kitchen, and exterior sockets.

Re:No.

[Rei]

Huge? Why? Can you point to some scientific references?

V=IR.

> that we only went with because it's easier to make a 120V incandescent lightbulb than a 240V. :P

I'll have to take your word on that.

Read "Networks of Power: Electrification in Western Society 1880-1930". In particular, it was carbon filament bulbs, like Edison's, that didn't work well with higher voltages.

There's a reason for using split phase and it's not that weird. It creates two independent single phase circuits providing 110V and it can be used as one 220V circuit by replacing the neuter with the other phase. It saves copper, as opposed to your very first statement.

No, it uses more copper. It's a case of one live, a neutral, and a ground, or two lives, a neutral, and a ground, all to carry the same amount of current. It used to be considered acceptable to wire the neutral and the ground together (NEMA 10-30), but no longer is (hence NEMA 14-30 is the new standard).

But even in that case, it'd still be useful. Homes usually have both 30A and 50A 240V sockets. But you can't plug a 30A into a 50A without an adapter, even though there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to. And you should also be able to plug a 120V plug into one phase of your 240V/30A or 50A sockets, but you can't do that without an adapter, either.

It's not clear to me what you're asking. You want a socket to provide both 110V and 220V and be able to plug such devices according to their needs? It seems a bit complicated in my opinion."

I'm saying that our current system restricts you for no good reason. It's not "needlessly complex" in the least to have all of your sockets on 240V and have plugs with a lower current plug into higher-current sockets. What's needlessly complex is having a mix of incompatible sockets with two different power delivery configurations (single phase and split phase).

Re:No.

[Anonymous Coward]

the first programmable digital computer was invented in England

And are you using some mechanical, house-sized behemoth or an electronic microprocessor?

ENIAC was the first electronic computer and it was invented by Americans.
The Intel 4004 was the first microprocessor and it was invented by Americans.

Re:No.

[Darth Sdlavrot]

I'd hazard that my local Home Depot has more stock of the T-shaped version than the non-T-shaped version.

More stock of the T-shaped than 5-20R, but certainly not 5-15R.

You're mixing apples and oranges. I said more t-shaped 20A than non-T-shaped 20A.

Because of the way our system works, it's more common in homes to find 5-15Rs without a T-connector wired for 20A, even though that's not what they're officially rated for.

It may be common to find that, but no licensed professional electrician that I know will do that.

For example, hair dryers at full blast and heat push dangerously close to the limits of a 5-15R (and some even over them), yet still use a 5-15 plug -- but they're okay because we wire our bathroom 5-15s with a 20A breaker. Same with garage, kitchen, and exterior sockets.

I hope you're not an electrician and claiming that it's okay. A 15A socket, wired with 14guage wire, had better _not_ be connected to a 20A breaker. That's a fire hazard.

Anything on a 20A breaker had better be wired with 12gauge wire with a 20A socket.

Re:No.

[nsayer]

but Kernighan and Pike are Canadians, so you're about half-right...

No, I was all the way right. Canada is part of America, even if it's not part of the United States.

Re:No.

[moosesocks]

And therein lies Linus's greatest strength: He's a fantastic manager.

His programming skills are largely irrelevant, because he's adept at identifying the good ones (most of whom also happen to respect him greatly).

He's also got a knack for choosing his fights and priorities carefully. The SCM/Bitkeeper debacle is a great example of this -- the initial debate was pretty ugly, but ultimately spawned a revolution in source code management by dumping Bitkeeper, which in turn revolutionized the Linux development and release process. Even if you don't use Git, all of the major systems in use today were greatly influenced by its development.

All in all, he's like the Steve Jobs of the open source world. His technical aptitude is now largely irrelevant, although his vision and managing abilities are top-notch.

Re:No.

[Painted]

Look, we apologized for Celine Dion already, but it appears you didn't hear it.

If it's no trouble for you, I would like to apologize again, on behalf of the entire Canadian populace and government, for Celine Dion. I'm sorry if this apology offends anyone, except maybe Ms. Dion herself.

Re:No.

[Neoprofin]

I stated the mortality rate was almost twice as high for common cancers. Hoover states breast cancer at 88%, and prostate cancer at 604%, Manhatten states the UK average for all cancer mortality at 60% higher in men (45% vs 66%) They're stating two different things, but both refute your claim.

As for the French data, (which is your source by the way, taken from your link provided even if they graphed it wrong) I'm neither a statistician nor a medical doctor, though my first guess would be that the figures above are based on the five year prognosis of persons who have been diagnoses with cancer and are being treated, the French data merely states deaths.

As to your final comment I don't think anyone who's familiar with the rampent fraud (and everything close to it) would ever take the monetary figures on health care spending as any kind of useful data. I say that not to defend the system, we still pay more regardless, just to state that the numbers don't mean much more than that we're being defrauded. The superiority of the system is debateable, one cost more, one saves more lives. How much is a life worth? Not my question to answer. I just hope you accept that the UK has higher cancer mortality rates and stop posting otherwise.

Re:No.

[Nesman64]

I like the sound of this. It's similar to putting a PCI card into a PCI Express slot, but not vice versa.

Re:No.

[init100]

I'd assume that the law won't be far behind.

In Sweden, where I live, GFCIs has been mandated for all new residential construction since 1994. And that is not just bathrooms, all outlets must be covered.

Re:No.

[Rising Ape]

If the total number of people dying from cancer is only 10% larger (per capita) in the UK, how can mortality rates be twice as high to six times as high? That's what I meant by the five year survival statistic being misleading. Maybe the British don't develop cancer as often as Americans, but that seems unlikely, and is contradicted by your own link.

Since all medical statistics seem to contradict each other I'm not going to jump to any strong conclusions based on a token analysis.

Re:No.

[Grishnakh]

How is a fuse in the plug any better than having a panel with circuit breakers? It seems like a much worse idea to me.

Remember, the whole reason the fuses were put in the plugs in the UK was because they wanted to save on copper after WWII, and they wired buildings in one big circuit instead of having separate runs to a central panel, like they do in the US. Having separate runs is safer (and is the way cars are made, BTW), but requires more wiring. It seems to me the British way is a terrible design, and just needs one of these plugs with fuses to fail and you have a fire. Now, if you guys have stopped wiring houses in such a stupid way, and have returned to the central panel method, then that seems to obviate the need for a fuse in the plug (which helps make for a huge and unwieldy plug).

Re:No.

[Grishnakh]

Or you can forget safety features altogether and let Darwinism take over. Stupid kids get electrocuted, smart ones don't.

I don't remember ever playing with outlets when I was a child. I knew better than that.

Re:No.

[Grishnakh]

I sure wish N. America would run on higher voltage: it takes an age to boil a kettle because at a max of 13A, it's half the power of a kettle pulling 13A elsewhere in the world.

What in the hell are you talking about? If you're using an electric range (like the kind in just about every NA kitchen), it runs on 220V, 30A.

If you're talking about those stupid portable hot plates, then too bad. Take a short walk to the kitchen and use the large appliance specifically designed for the purpose, not a cheap portable device. Or better yet, us a microwave oven. It'll heat the water much faster, and with much less energy than resistive heating. It's so efficient that it works just fine on 117V.

Re:No.

[Grishnakh]

That's a 20A socket you have pictured there. I'm pretty sure there's no such thing as a 30A socket for 110V. This only exists for 220V sockets. If you need that much power, you need to be using 220V.

Re:No.

[Grishnakh]

No, it isn't. It's split phase, which is different from single phase. The hots are 240V relative to each other, but only 120V relative to ground. And it's a hack to deal with our current 120V system.

No, it's not. Every power system out there is 3-phase, where the voltage is measured line-to-line (as opposed to line-to-neutral). Single-phase is just one of the three phases, line-to-line. Here in the US, we supply a single phase to each household, and then that's split into 110 (actually 117) volts. In other countries, it should be the same, except that they just leave everything on that one 220V phase, and don't split it.

Re:No.

[hrimhari]

Huge? Why? Can you point to some scientific references?

V=IR.

I thought we were talking about power, P = VI, where when you increase V and decrease I in the same proportions, P remains the same. Isn't this usually the case?

No, it uses more copper. It's a case of one live, a neutral, and a ground, or two lives, a neutral, and a ground, all to carry the same amount of current. It used to be considered acceptable to wire the neutral and the ground together (NEMA 10-30), but no longer is (hence NEMA 14-30 is the new standard).

Ok, I see my error there. I never expected a 240V equipment to care about neutral if it had the expected ground (for safety), but that doesn't seem to be the case, although I have no clue as why. Must be to optimize the current consumption by profiting from this design directly in the electric motors?

I'm saying that our current system restricts you for no good reason. It's not "needlessly complex" in the least to have all of your sockets on 240V and have plugs with a lower current plug into higher-current sockets. What's needlessly complex is having a mix of incompatible sockets with two different power delivery configurations (single phase and split phase).

Yes, it would be simpler to design a grid on 240V in that case. The case for 120V would be safety.

Our body's resistance is roughly the same regardless of the voltage applied, so we'd get a worse kick from 240V than from 120V.

Since the huge majority of appliances don't need the extra volts, we have a boost in safety with a 120V grid.

Re:No.

[Anonymous Coward]

re: And bring me the women

You are new here arent you?

Re:No.

[phozz bare]

I liked Denmark's happy face design myself.

Personally I think it looks a little too appealing to kids.

Re:No.

[anon mouse-cow-aard]

Which is a European colony, and Finland is part of the EC. Which means it all came from Europe.

Re:No.

[Rei]

I thought we were talking about power

For a given amount of power, if you double the voltage (and thus halve the current), you halve the resistance. OR, you reduce the copper and keep the resistance the same. Or any combination thereof.

Higher voltages = less loss and less copper.

I never expected a 240V equipment to care about neutral if it had the expected ground (for safety), but that doesn't seem to be the case, although I have no clue as why

Because if you draw 120V on a neutral-grounded 10-30, you dump current to ground.

Our body's resistance is roughly the same regardless of the voltage applied, so we'd get a worse kick from 240V than from 120V.

True, but your common sockets would be rated for half the current. No need to up the average power of the average plug. Double voltage, half current. And either half resistance or less copper.

Re:No.

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't disagree that the UK plug you've described is very safe, but this sub-thread got started based on the new US outlets, which aren't nearly as child-proof. I see these as less convenient without any appreciable trade-off in greater safety, because I expect that most children will be able to defeat the new US shuttered outlets. I consider the tight-fitting after-market blocking safety plugs to be a better solution. Children too small to know better don't have the finger strength to remove them, nor the intuition to wedge something behind them to pry them out.

- T

Re:No.

[Rei]

No, it's not. Every power system out there is 3-phase

We're talking in the home. It's 3-phase out on the lines.

Single-phase is just one of the three phases

Not that simple. Line voltage is a lot higher than home voltage, so you have to transform it anyways. We transform it with a center-tapped transformer to get two phases and a neutral out of it.

Here in the US, we supply a single phase to each household, and then that's split into 110 (actually 117) volts.

No, we supply a single phase to each household, and then that's split into *two* 120 volt lines of opposite phase, net 240 between them and 120V to ground. 5-15s are only wired up to one phase or the other.

In other countries, it should be the same, except that they just leave everything on that one 220V phase, and don't split it.

No, it's automatically split by the center-tapped transformer. They then typically run one phase to one household and a different phase to another, saving wire.

Re:No.

[Rei]

You're mixing apples and oranges. I said more t-shaped 20A than non-T-shaped 20A.

That's because almost nobody makes the official 20A plugs, because there's almost no sockets for them, because you can't plug 15A plugs into the 20A sockets. It's a viscious cycle.

It may be common to find that, but no licensed professional electrician that I know will do that.

Aks the electricians you know about that. It's pretty much standard in the US. Kitchen, bathroom, garage, and outdoors go on 20A breakers, with everything else, 15A. In fact, there's an increasing trend to just put everything on 20A, 12awg.

Check out the power ratings on hair dryers some time and do the math. A lot of them *expect* you to have more than a 15A breaker, but they have a 5-15 plug. Esp. given that a 15A breaker typically means drawing no more than 12-13A sustained.

A 15A socket, wired with 14guage wire

Who said anything about 14 guage? They're NEMA 5-15R sockets with 12 guage wire and a 20A breaker.

Re:No.

[hrimhari]

I thought we were talking about power

For a given amount of power, if you double the voltage (and thus halve the current), you halve the resistance. OR, you reduce the copper and keep the resistance the same. Or any combination thereof.

Higher voltages = less loss and less copper.

I must have missed something during my electric classes. Here's what I remember:

P = VI = RI^2

The reason why P remains the same while V and I compensate each other should be precisely because R is supposed to be constant. So I still don't see the huge variation you mention. Maybe you could still point me to that scientific reference explaining it.

I never expected a 240V equipment to care about neutral if it had the expected ground (for safety), but that doesn't seem to be the case, although I have no clue as why

Because if you draw 120V on a neutral-grounded 10-30, you dump current to ground.

But that's the thing. Forget the ground for a second. There should not be a need for a neutral on a 240V outlet if the device is going to use 240V. It doesn't matter if one is neutral while the other carries all the 240V, or if they are both hot and opposed by 180 degrees.

If you want to take 120V from there, you should be on a 120V outlet.

We all agree that the ground is not for feeding the device. It's for keeping its metallic parts free of current, for safety.

But if we do use the ground, a neutral-grounded 120V grid works just as well. There's no power going to the ground. It just becomes the reference.

There are safety problems I can imagine with that, tho:

1. Wrong wiring or "smart" users: if the device relies on neutral to be grounded but the outlet is badly wired or the user manages to reverse the plug, there will be 120V waiting for him on the metallic grounded parts
2. Wire resistance: the little resistance of the ground wire could make the device's end of it to show some volts instead of being truly grounded
3. Lightning strikes: the ground close to where the lightning stroke may not be quite the same as in other places and that can cause a surge on devices if their neutral is shorted to the ground.

Our body's resistance is roughly the same regardless of the voltage applied, so we'd get a worse kick from 240V than from 120V.

True, but your common sockets would be rated for half the current. No need to up the average power of the average plug. Double voltage, half current. And either half resistance or less copper.

I get the impression that you fell on the same fallacy as another comment regarding how much current an outlet gives.

When it says 120V/20A or 240V/10A it doesn't mean that it carries that many amperes all the time. It does carry that many volts, but the amperes are directly proportional to the resistance applied. Our body.

Here's a very interesting article about that.

Re:No.

[Rising Ape]

Insulating the first half of the prongs doesn't make the plug any bigger. Neither does having shutters on the socket.

Re:No.

[Jane_Dozey]

No, the US uses 110V*. It's Europe that uses 220V*. The article was quite correct.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mains_power_around_the_world or just do a simple Google search.

*They both actually use ranges of voltage but these are close enough for reference.

Re:No.

[hairyfeet]

And this southern gentleman humbly accepts your apology sir. I'm sure that with the leaking sieve that is the border, which is just as much our fault as it is yours, that her evilness simply slipped through the cracks, like a toxic gas oozing across the border.

Besides the great people of Canada had done us a great service long before this unfortunate mishap by sending us "The Shat", the best damned Enterprise Captain in history, which earns a great amount of forgiveness for future wrongdoing. Plus while Celine may be truly the Devil's spawn, in now way does she equal the horror that is sitting through a Yahoo Serious movie, which should be outlawed under the Geneva Convention.

At least the people of Canada had the honor to stand up and admit that a great evil had escaped, whereas the damned Aussies try to pretend it never happened. The PM of Australia should be tied to a chair and forced to watch Young Einstein until he admits that allowing that evil upon the world was a crime against humanity, but I bet he would just swallow his own tongue to escape the pain. I know I would.

Re:No.

[quickOnTheUptake]

No. From your own link's description of power in the US:

Buildings with more than two branch circuits will have both 120 and 240 V available.

If you would like more you can look up split phase. Just one tasty morsel from it:

In countries whose standard phase to neutral voltage is 120 V, lighting and small appliances are connected between a live wire and the neutral. Large appliances, such as cooking equipment, space heating, water pumps, clothes dryers, and air conditioners are connected across the two live conductors and operate at 240 V, requiring less current and smaller conductors than would be needed if the appliances were designed for 120 V operation.

Ah here is another random page I got off google:

Residential houses are typilly wired using "normal 220/110 wiring" where there are two 110V live wires (180 degrees in phase with each other) and they share a common neutral wire. Normal electrical outlets are wires between one 110V live wire and the common neutral wire. Some high current loads (air conditioning etc.) are wired between two phase wires so they get full 220V voltage.

In other words, you're wrong, but don't let that stop you from pontificating about due diligence and so forth.

Re:No.

[ScotchDiver]

How would regulation that mandates fuses in power-plugs harm you, a mere consumer?

Stupid regulation is costly when you consider it in the aggregate. A few cents for mandated fused plugs, a few cents for shutters, a few more for stress reliefs; times hundreds of millions of devices sold / year adds up. The real problem here isn't adding one new little rule requiring the use of fused plugs though, it's the thousands upon thousands of little rules that cruft up the inventive process over time that really hurt. Each little straw added to that proverbial camel's back makes it just a little harder for good products to get into the market. The steadily increasing likelihood of a non-compliance fine or lawsuit makes investors and entrepreneurs less willing to try new ideas and start new businesses too. Eventually all the small, agile, innovative companies get squashed and only the behemoths survive, to the detriment of all of us consumers. Look at any established and "well" regulated industry for anecdotal evidence of this (automobiles, railroads, drugs, telephone, etc., etc., etc.). Now compare those to largely "unregulated" industries (software, elective medicine(Lasic), literature, computers, electronics).

Or is this somekind of "I have god given right to use plugs without fuses!"-thingy? Seriously, what's the harm in having fuses in power-plugs, and what would be the harm in government mandating it?

It's simple, fused plugs and shutters offer little real protection from electrical shock. On the other hand, GFCI and AFCI interrupts are very good at preventing shocks, even when someone is bound and determined to get themselves a Darwin award. These are required for all "wet" areas here and you can even install them, as I have, at the central breaker panel to cover the whole house.

Doesn't government already mandate what kind of powerplugs and electrical system you have? Why aren't you complaining about that, and insisting on more options?

Most of those requirements are covered by the National Electric Code, which is _largely_ the product of electricians and safety engineers (UL Labs for example). Crap like fused plugs is the products of politicians and trial lawyers. I'll stick with advice from the prior group, thank you.

Re:No.

[Neoprofin]

Actually, there are fewer cancer deaths in the UK per capita than the USA.

Remember that? The topic I replied to?

Since all medical statistics seem to contradict each other

No, they all say your statement was false, each and evey one of them, including the link you provided.

Re:No.

[h4rm0ny]

Or you can forget safety features altogether and let Darwinism take over. Stupid kids get electrocuted, smart ones don't.

Correction: Curious kids get electrocuted. Sit on their arse and not bother kids don't. Yeah - lets hand everthing over to "Evolution" because it's a steady progression from worse to better, not a blind adaptation to changing environments. You might want to look up Teleology in the contet of evolutionary biology sometime. You might find it enlightening.

Re:No.

[AmiMoJo]

The first time I went to Europe I was surprised at how easily the little plugs came out of the sockets. Then I went to Japan and was even more shocked at how their blade plugs slip out under the weight of the cable attached to them.

It's a shame British wiring doesn't match our plugs. To save on the amount of copper wiring required most houses use a ring mains system, where sockets are all connected in big rings. It's cheaper than a star topology but also puts some limits on how much you can run off a single ring and tends to get messed up by people adding additional spurs all over the place. You also get a more of interference by appliances on the same ring.

Re:No.

[NoseyNick]

Yes, but a Brit 4-way is about a foot long, and a US 4-way is slightly larger than your thumb. I hate the pathetic 110v (well, OK, except my kids have played with it and lived) but I like the multi-way splitters, they're so sweeet!

Re:No.

[GigsVT]

I don't know of any requirement to turn them ground pin up.

I guess some localities may require it, but it's not in the NEC.

More and more electricians are doing it now though, mostly because the logic of dropping something flat into a half-plugged plug does make more sense.

Re:No.

[GigsVT]

I'm pretty sure ring mains haven't been used for years, and only exist in older installations.

Re:No.

[Anonymous Coward]

No, they're still standard in the UK.

Re:No.

[ross axe]

Firstly, I imagine he was talking about electric kettles.

Secondly, your complaint about the efficiency of resistive heating doesn't ring true. Where is the wasted energy supposed to be going?

Still, I'm quite bored, so I thought I'd empirically test your assertions and have a race between my microwave and my kettle. Unsuprisingly, the kettle won hands down.

Kettle:
Nominal power: 2200W
Time to boil 0.5L of water: about 2 minutes
Actual power consumption: 2360W
Current draw: 9.7A
Power factor: 100%

Microwave:
Nominal power: 800W
Time to boil 0.5L of water: about 8 minutes
Actual power consumption: 1250W
Current draw: 6.7A
Power factor: 85%

Supply is 240V.

So, in other words, the kettle boiled in a quarter of the time and used less than half the energy (283kJ instead of 600kJ). If I start making numbers up and assume that the water started at 20C and finished at 90C, that would require 146kJ (plus whatever it takes to vapourise the steam), giving the kettle an efficiency of 52%, and the microwave a mere 24%. I suspect those numbers are a little on the low side, but you get the idea.

Of course, there are more powerful (and probably more efficient) microwaves available, but it does not seem plausible that any microwave could beat my distinctly average (by UK standards) kettle.

US vs UK...

[Kenja]

So they rated the US as the worse and the UK as the best. However they only looked at non-grounded, 110v outlets without GFI for the US and it's a UK publication. Frankly, other then the voltage (220 vs 110) and the orientation, UK and US are identical.

Whole thing seems more then a little biased.

Re:US vs UK...

[jimicus]

UK plugs are about double the size, have significantly thicker pins and have a fuse built in.

Other than that, identical.

Re:US vs UK...

[zsazsa]

The British people are strangely proud of the ungainly BS 1363 plug. No surprise at all that it won the comparison.

Re:US vs UK...

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

They also completely failed to mention sheer size. British mains plugs are fucking enormous. That might be fine for AC blowers and electric kettles, which are big anyway and draw a fair bit of current; but it is annoying and ridiculous for the ever growing crop of little tiny switchmode adapters that power the gizmos and gadgets of modern life.

Re:US vs UK...

[iluvcapra]

UK plugs are quite a bit more sturdy -- you can't bend a prong on a UK mains plug with hand strength. They do take up a bit more wall space though.

The voltage isn't a trivial issue either. More volts to the wall means the house wiring doesn't need to carry as many amps and less fire/electrocution risk.

Re:US vs UK...

[Kenja]

UK size is smaller or comparable to US 220v and GFI is better then a fuse in my opinion.

Re:US vs UK...

[sbrown123]

The article is from the U.K., so what do you expect? Brits have to find something to feel superior about despite having bad teeth and breath, even if they have to "look over" things like the U.S. grounding plug and GFI sockets.

Re:US vs UK...

[Brit_in_the_USA]

As a British person living in the USA I notice that the majority of my sockets outside kitchen and bathroom are not GFI protected (either at the socket or the fuse panel) and that most appliances do not use an Earth Pin.

I also am in awe that socket adapters are legally sold that convert non earthed sockets into earthed sockets and light bulb sockets into earthed sockets, the safety implications are huge. I think it is a fair assessment to use 110V non earth sockets as many home have them.

I also notice that no appliance I own in the USA uses insulation on the live pins of the plug to prevent accidental shocks when the plug is slightly out of the socket, none of the sockets contain safety shutters and that 110V cords to high wattage appliances such as vacuum cleaners get warm and the lights change brightness when I switch such appliances on and off. IMO the British home electrical system is much better than the USA system and I have tried to view it impartially over the years.

Re:US vs UK...

[adamgundy]

and the plastic guards across the power pin sockets that only open when the earth pin is inserted.. prevents little fingers etc.

oh, and they always (almost always, not on really old sockets) have a switch next to each socket so you can turn them on/off.

Re:US vs UK...

[argStyopa]

Sounds like the UK ones are massively overengineered, inconvenient, and introduce extra points of failure unnecessarily.

Hm?

Re:US vs UK...

[Trepidity]

I agree that plenty of devices in the U.S. don't use a ground pin, but I've rarely seen appliances with no ground. Have you really seen a refrigerator or a microwave or something with no ground pin?

Re:US vs UK...

[Kenja]

GFI outlets cost less then 10$ each for a 20amp model. If people want to save the cost of a sandwich on outlets I for one wont stop em.

But for me, its worth the extra couple bucks.

Re:US vs UK...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm in the US, the last time I had an electrician in my house, he installed the new outlets upside down, meaning the ground was on top. I don;t remeber if he said it was required or it was just because it was safer. Either way, I;ve never electrocuted myself or know of anyone that has from touching the metal prongs while plugging or unpluggin a device. The socket adapters have a ground wire pin that attachs to the center screw which is required to be grounded. I have not seen non grounded outlets (standard two prong) in years so I assume they do not meet current code either.

Re:US vs UK...

[schnikies79]

They sell 2-prong to 3-prong adapters because you typically attach the ground to the cover screw via a small prong or wire. Since ground and neutral are tied together in the breaker box, you have the same safety of the a 3-wire system in a 2-wire system, minus the redundancy of an extra ground.

The problem is people don't hook up ground adapter.

Re:US vs UK...

[fahrbot-bot]

UK plugs are about double the size, have significantly thicker pins and have a fuse built in.

Worst pick-up line ever.

Re:US vs UK...

[Threni]

Oh yes, that switch, the fuse in the plug and the protective plastic cover over the live socket must add something like 1p to each socket in whatever Chinese prison they're being made in this week. Sure, they last forever and save lives, but it's just too much of an expense for me.

Re:US vs UK...

[Kenja]

To be fair, most houses have 220v as well as 110v (check behind your dryer). 220v requires MUCH more expensive wiring and the US 220v outlets & plugs are if anything more sturdy then the UK and have things like twist-to-lock safety features.

Re:US vs UK...

[jandrese]

And you know what? The number of times the average American has been shocked by his plugs: 0.

Re:US vs UK...

[Anonymous Coward]

And they leak oil.

Re:US vs UK...

[Darth Sdlavrot]

In my experience a lot of brits don't even realize we have single phase 220v to most homes.

Thus they probably aren't aware that there are US 220v sockets and plugs to compare theirs with.

But without a built-in fuse and shutters in the outlet they'll still rate theirs as superior.

OTOH, considering how many times most people actually unplug their stove, water heater, or clothes dryer, I'd wager that statistically the US plug is the safer of the two.

Re:US vs UK...

[Kenja]

You have to really work at electrocuting yourself on a GFI outlet. I dont consider the covers and fuse to be a better option.

Re:US vs UK...

[oldspewey]

Man up.

If you can't handle a bit of unprotected metal carrying 110V and fake grounded adaptors you're not cut out for this continent.

Re:US vs UK...

[jridley]

I started doing that when I saw them installed consistently like that in an industrial situation, but I didn't fully understand the reason. I do know that plugs are less likely to pull out due to weight on the plug like that.

Finally I asked an electrician. He said the reason is that if something falls on the plug, pulls it partly out, and makes contact with the prongs, it hits the earthing pin first rather than possibly hitting the hot lead first.

Re:US vs UK...

[Kenja]

Lets not forget that the UK had to release a document covering injuries from cookies (biscuits). Seems half the nation has been injured by them at some point...

Re:US vs UK...

[c_sd_m]

Yay, I've above average!

Re:US vs UK...

[Sandbags]

Actually, the little security flap adds about $0.08 to the cost of a socket (about $1 retail given markup). The inline fuse is differnt from a GFI, and instead of allowing the device to die a horrible death and trigger the GFI, it protects the devices from surges in the first place. They use GFI in the breaker box (as the breakers in my new house here in the US also do and it's not the builkding standard in this state as opposed to the expensive GFI sokets I needed all over the place in the old house). Their inline fuse is cheap and simple.

For the cost of a box, outlet, and cover plate, the UK socket might cost $2 more than a US one. Its safer and also protects devices with an additional surge protection barrier (so you don't need a surge stip for every fracking outlet you have more than a lamp plugged into).

Further, because they use round connectors, not flat, it's far less likely you'll bend up a plug, and it's also harder to find household objects you could stick in the hole in the first place. It;s not exactly often i bend up a connetor real bad, but when ui had a dog it more more frequent, and more than once I've had to solder on a new endpiece, which is really a bitch to do btw without the proper tools.

I'm not condoning everyone rip out all their outlets, I'm simply suggesting all new outlets come with a cover and fuse starting now, and all appliances start coming with a newer, better connector (and an adapter to use an older outlet).

People might compain, but they made the same complaint years ago when we added the 3rd prong and people started needing adapters for those. We got over it, and will again.

Re:US vs UK...

[sjbe]

I also notice that no appliance I own in the USA uses insulation on the live pins of the plug to prevent accidental shocks when the plug is slightly out of the socket,

Which it turns out is not actually a problem in real life. In 36 years in this country neither I nor anyone I know of has ever been shocked in that manner. Yes it's conceivable and I'm sure someone has done it somewhere but it really just isn't a problem. We've got a pretty detailed electrical code and I'm quite sure if it was a serious problem it would have been addressed.

none of the sockets contain safety shutters

They are available if you want them. My car (a Honda Ridgeline) has a 110V outlet with safety shutters actually. You can get them from any Home Depot or Lowes hardware store for use in your home. You also can get plugs to prevent access to the sockets when not in use. Again though, not really a serious problem.

and that 110V cords to high wattage appliances such as vacuum cleaners get warm

I suggest you buy better quality equipment then. If you buy a wire that is too small for the application this might happen. Any wire that is too thin for the power demands on it will overheat. This is how fuses work. Doesn't happen on my vacuum cleaner though - at least not that I can tell without a very accurate thermometer.

and the lights change brightness when I switch such appliances on and off.

Unless you are overloading the circuit, that almost certainly has nothing to do with the appliance. That means the power you have going to the outlet is either insufficient or of poor quality. For instance I had a loose neutral wire on my house last year which made everything flicker because the voltages were bouncing between 98V and 135V. Once the power company secured the neutral connection it's been rock steady ever since.

IMO the British home electrical system is much better than the USA system and I have tried to view it impartially over the year

Clearly...

Re:US vs UK...

[v1]

do you know if those switches are "hot switches" that can handle repeated cutting in and out under power, like to turn a trouble light off by flipping the switch instead of pulling the power cord? My hair dryer power switch died so it's now set to always on, and I have to pull the cord to turn it off etc so the plug is getting a little arced up from the power surges. I know switches that aren't meant for that can have the same problem.

Re:US vs UK...

[RiotingPacifist]

Is the use of right-angles from the wire to the socket standardised or just a result of the standard design? I find it prevents people pulling plugs out which is also good for safety (this is compared to the fairly beefy but straight plugs they use in Spain)

Re:US vs UK...

[Anonymous Coward]

And you know what? The number of times the average American has been killed due to a plane flying into his place of work: 0.

So clearly terrorism is no big deal, right?

It always amazes me that people can be against a regulation that costs almost nothing and saves lives. If you could catch a serial killer for almost no investment, you'd do it.

Re:US vs UK...

[GigsVT]

In the 2008 NEC, nearly all outlets will be required to have combination AFCI and GFCI breakers, as well as shuttered outlets.

2008 NEC is already in effect in several states, and will be in effect nationwide in a few years. States and localities aren't forced to adopt it, but most do.

Re:US vs UK...

[R2.0]

Where to begin?

"As a British person living in the USA I notice that the majority of my sockets outside kitchen and bathroom are not GFI protected (either at the socket or the fuse panel) and that most appliances do not use an Earth Pin."

I actually doubt most British circuits are GFI protected, but I could be wrong about that. Remember, though - GFI is more than a breaker or fuse. Also, per the National Electrical Code, all electrical devices without a ground plug must be double insulated - insulation on the wiring and the casing. Finally, in a 110v circuit, one of the legs IS earthed - they tie in at the panel.

"I also am in awe that socket adapters are legally sold that convert non earthed sockets into earthed sockets and light bulb sockets into earthed sockets, the safety implications are huge. I think it is a fair assessment to use 110V non earth sockets as many home have them."

Already addressed. If they get misused and a fire starts, it's the owner's fault.

"I also notice that no appliance I own in the USA uses insulation on the live pins of the plug to prevent accidental shocks when the plug is slightly out of the socket, none of the sockets contain safety shutters"

Both are available, just not mandated. If you don't have kids, why do you need the safety shutters?

" and that 110V cords to high wattage appliances such as vacuum cleaners get warm"
Something to do with Ohm's law, I think. Warm? BFD - so does British wiring, just not as much.

" and the lights change brightness when I switch such appliances on and off."

That's the house wiring, not the system wiring.

The British took the Nanny state route, and the US hasn't caught up yet. I'm not shedding any tears.

Re:US vs UK...

[FrankSchwab]

Well, it seems that BS1363 allows non-earthed plugs also, quoting from wikipedia:
"Moulded plugs for unearthed, double-insulated appliances may substitute this contact with a non-conductive plastic pin to open the shutter." So, should a fair assessment include non-grounded plugs British plugs also?

As a native of the US, I find the items you point out incomprehensible, but acceptable just due to familiarity. I would absolutely love UL and the NFPA (the non-governmental bodies that, in reality, sets most of the standards for these things in the USA) banning 2-prong plugs and outlets. 2-prong outlets have been effectively banned in new construction since 1962; I'm sorry, but if you have an old house you'll have to rewire or buy lots of adapters.

I'd love to have 220V coming out of the wall sockets as half the world does; it's unlikely to be more dangerous than the 120 we have now, and would allow for products with twice the power of currently available one (think vacuums, table saws, etc). Alternatively, products could have thinner cords - at half the amperage, the required wire diameter is smaller.

As far as light dimming, that's going to occur in Britain also if you plug in a 13 amp device. It's unavoidable, and driven by the current being drawn; the cords will get warm also. Of course, there won't be as many 13 amp devices - my 120 volt, 13 amp vacuum cleaner would become a 240 volt, 6.5 amp vacuum cleaner; the 6.5 amps is unlikely to dim the lights and unlikely to make a noticeable temperature difference to the wire.

But I just can't get over the size of that British plug. It's got to be bigger than the cellphone that my AC Adapter would be trying to charge. How about practicality - how often do the shutters on British outlets fail, jam, or break? /frank

Re:US vs UK...

[Dunx]

I haven't been able to read the article yet, but one thing which is definitely different between the US and UK plugs is that no US plug has a fuse in it.

Also, the US plugs are woefully inadequate for inflicting really serious injuries when stood on with bare feet.

Re:US vs UK...

[1s44c]

The British people are strangely proud of the ungainly BS 1363 plug. No surprise at all that it won the comparison.

What is it with the Americans on here? The British people are not proud of their plugs, the British people take plugs for granted. It's not like there was a national vote on what plugs to use or anything.

To warp this into a issue of national pride is just wrong.

Re:US vs UK...

[jaypifer]

Ever been shocked by 110? No big deal. 220? You need protection.

Re:US vs UK...

[Grishnakh]

Appliances don't have to use the earth ground pin if they're double-insulated.

Yes, you can buy adaptors to eliminate the earth pin, but they have a loop that needs to be connected to the outlet plate screw, which needs to be grounded. If you don't use that, and there's a problem, it's your own fault. However, many older houses don't have 3-prong outlets and the system has no earth ground connection, so there's not much you can do. What would you suggest, every 50+ year old house being rewired? We're already bankrupt.

As for accidental shocks, remember, this is only 110 (really 120) V here. It doesn't hurt much to get shocked if you're clumsy, as long as you're not wet (which is why kitchens and bathrooms are required to have GFCI for new construction). I imagine getting zapped with 220V is a much worse experience.

As for lights changing brightness, maybe you're living in an older house or something, because I don't see that. And for vacuum cleaners, yes it kinda sucks the cord gets warm, but not many things are like that. In the typical house, very few things use that much current (the things which use lots of power, like ovens, are already 220V and have their own circuits with huge aluminum cables). 220V is massive overkill for things like alarm clocks, small lamps, TVs, or even computers.

Re:US vs UK...

[Anonymous Coward]

if your lights dim when a vacuum turns on your wiring is just flat horrible

Re:US vs UK...

[Brit_in_the_USA]

I have not seen appliances without dedicated ground pin and wiring. I have seen devices with metal cases or significant conductive parts acceptable to people that do not have a dedicated ground pin e.g. lamps. IIRC in the UK any device that has a conductive case parts requires a dedicated ground pin wiring to prevent shock in the event of internal mis wiring or internal wiring breaks/shorts to case.

Re:US vs UK...

[Kenja]

Due to the low price these days I use GFI outlets whenever I can. Worse case is it saves you a trip to the breaker box if you overload the circuit. Best case it stops you from doing the 110v mambo.

Re:US vs UK...

[Grishnakh]

Your electrician screwed up, but not badly. There's no real standard about which way they must face, but there is a convention: they usually look like a face. However, if the outlet is switched by a wall switch (usually for plugging in a table lamp and being able to turn it on from the switch by the door), the outlet is supposed to be inverted so it's obvious which outlet is switched.

Re:US vs UK...

[Skater]

Electrical codes in the US call for GFI only in bathrooms, kitchens, and outdoors - basically, places where there's likely to be water. (Not that it's a bad idea to have them elsewhere.)

For the adapters, the problem is that there is a huge installed base of non-grounding outlets, and of course no politician wants to be responsible for forcing them to be upgraded. Obviously you can't install a non-grounded outlet (I doubt you can even buy them), but if it's already there it's grandfathered in, until you renovate the room or otherwise work on the electrical system.

As for the lights changing brightness and such, my house does that, pretty badly. It's 40+ years old and has only 100 amp service, clearly not designed for today's usage. But, most houses I've been in of more recent vintage don't have this problem, including my brother's house that has about 40 arcade games (pinball, video games, and a classic Coke refrigerator) in his basement, even when they're all running.

Re:US vs UK...

[Anonymous Coward]

Ummmm...having traveled darn near everywhere, I have to say that the good ol' US of A has one of the best there is. Solid, stable, simple. Go overseas and buy a plug bar and see how long it lasts. Pieces of crap with their umpty-dozen prong configurations and whatnot.

Re:US vs UK...

[number11]

To be fair, most houses have 220v as well as 110v

But only to a few points. If you want to plug your 220V lamp or radio in, in the US you'll have to reach behind the stove to do it.

220v requires MUCH more expensive wiring

Why would that be, if we're comparing apples to apples (and not wiring for stoves)? As far as copper goes, 220 would presumably take 4 wires (hot, hot, neutral, ground) rather than the 3 for 110V, but for the same (wattage) capacity the wires would be thinner, probably using less copper, since the current would be half as great. Insulation shouldn't cost any more. I don't see why outlets and fixtures would cost any more, if they were based on the same designs used for 110V, if anything they might be a little cheaper due to the lower current used by 220V.

Re:US vs UK...

[Brit_in_the_USA]

Although this could descend into types of political governance, it may be argued that the minimum level of electrical safety could be raised in the USA such as mandatory GFI on all outlets on new home builds. As it stands it is not mandated so only fair to compare worst (and common) case US situation to the UK situation.

Re:US vs UK...

[CrimsonAvenger]

Whole thing seems more then a little biased.

I take it you didn't notice the disclaimer about the word "objective"?

The one where they were using the "government approved" definition, which meant exactly the opposite of the standard definition?

Re:US vs UK...

[WarwickRyan]

I'm British, but living in Netherlands.

Almost non of our plugs are grounded. Only those which have appliances attached to them. The plug sockets themselves aren't stable - you can easily accidently jank a plug out.

In comparison, the three pronged plugs are fantastic. Both the UK model and the one they use in South Africa (like UK but bigger with round prongs). They're almost always grounded, they can only go in one way and generally stay plugged in dispite minor knocks.

What's even better is that there's only standard in the UK. In Netherlands there are 3 different plug types. Not every plug fits in every plug type. Which is a real PITA.

Re:US vs UK...

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, maybe the ones who are still alive...

Re:US vs UK...

[1s44c]

The article is from the U.K., so what do you expect? Brits have to find something to feel superior about despite having bad teeth and breath, even if they have to "look over" things like the U.S. grounding plug and GFI sockets.

You see this as some great attack on your national pride and just have to take revenge?

Hang your head in shame..

It's a report on plugs. Historical accident and nothing more decides what plugs are most used in your country.

Re:US vs UK...

[Rising Ape]

GFI (RCD) and a fuse do different jobs entirely. A fuse protects against high currents and an RCD protects against imbalanced currents, protecting against electric shocks which tend to go to earth.

The latest UK wiring standards require both overcurrent protection and RCDs.

Re:US vs UK...

[Anonymous Coward]

GFI, surge protection and fuses are totally different things. None of them are meant to serve the same functions and as such aren't comparable. Having a fuse in a plug has nothing to do with protecting the user from electric shock, which is the function of GFI. A fuse doesn't offer surge protection (unless it's a fast blow fuse), that's the job of an MOV or similar.

Re:US vs UK...

[Anonymous Coward]

They do define objectivity as:

Objectivity in this sentence has a one-off, government-approved change in definition. Its meaning here, and only here, is the exact opposite of what it usually means.

Re:US vs UK...

[number11]

As a British person living in the USA I notice that the majority of my sockets outside kitchen and bathroom are not GFI protected (either at the socket or the fuse panel) and that most appliances do not use an Earth Pin.

Do note, though, that since GFCI protects everything downstream of the GFCI, any given circuit only really requires a single GFI outlet (or breaker).

Re:US vs UK...

[nomadic]

They sell 2-prong to 3-prong adapters because you typically attach the ground to the cover screw via a small prong or wire.

You're supposed to, but typically people don't. In fact, they overwhelmingly don't.

Re:US vs UK...

[Brit_in_the_USA]

The problem is people don't hook up ground adapter.

I've never seen it done by anyone I've visited in an old houses, so it stands as a serious safety issue.

A possible solution is to ban the adapters, mandate that all sockets be 3 prong, make it illegal for electrical companies to start new service on a house (or transfer of service) unless the house electrical conforms to the new minimum standard (how it is done in the UK).

I would be very interested to see the stats of death per capita due to electrical shock in the home for USA and UK. You should of course, weight if possible the number of capita that have home electrical service (including generators for remote locations), though I expect it to be in the 90%+ for both countries so negligible impact on the raw death stats. I found some world wide country data but UK wasn't on the list.

Re:US vs UK...

[Anonymous Coward]

That was a hoax/part of an advertising campaign.

Re:US vs UK...

[sjames]

Ungrounded and unpolarized sockets are grandfathered in, but no longer meet code for a new install. The adapters are SUPPOSED to be connected to the screw for grounding, but I have frequently seen that step skipped or the ground wire cut off. Grounded outlets have been the standard for decades now, but there are still a few ancient buildings that haven't updated.

Re:US vs UK...

[MBGMorden]

Indeed. My first college dorm (built in 1946) had the two prong outlets and required adaptors for my power strip, but as long as you properly installed it and attached the screw through the ring all was well.

That said, people in general are all too quick to do things improperly. I know of at least 2 people in that dorm that just took a power strip, cut the ground pin off, and then plugged in all their stuff to the strip. Given that type of thing, hot plates burning, and hooking up WAY too much appliances in a single room, I have no idea how more college dorms don't burn to the ground.

Re:US vs UK...

[Ephemeriis]

I agree that plenty of devices in the U.S. don't use a ground pin, but I've rarely seen appliances with no ground. Have you really seen a refrigerator or a microwave or something with no ground pin?

I have.

Sure, usually the appliance cord has a ground pin on it... But you wouldn't believe how many times I've seen those appliances plugged into an adapter and then into a groundless outlet.

Our old apartment had horribly frightening wiring... None of the outlets had group plugs. We went through lightbulbs on a weekly basis. We couldn't run the microwave at the same time as the stove, because we'd trip a breaker. We complained to the landlord a few times, but they weren't interested in fixing it. We moved out as soon as it was possible. I'm kind of surprised the place is still standing... I really sort of thought it would have burned down from an electrical fire by now.

Re:US vs UK...

[NVW55V]

GFCI receptacles are NOT over-current protective devices.

Re:US vs UK...

[interkin3tic]

I also notice that no appliance I own in the USA uses insulation on the live pins of the plug to prevent accidental shocks when the plug is slightly out of the socket,

Uh... does that actually, you know, happen ever? I've been plugging and unplugging stuff for a while now, over 25 years, often while drunk, and the only times I've been shocked while plugging or unplugging things are when I realize what a rats nest I've made around the electrical sockets.

(We're talking mentally shocked, just for clarity sake, not like zzzap.)

Re:US vs UK...

[TheNinjaroach]

220v takes the same three wires to run as 110v. Two carriers (hot and hot hot) and a ground. There's no neutral in 220v, so you can run either 110v or 220v from the same romex wire - just not at the same time.

Re:US vs UK...

[Creepy]

my city recently started requiring GFCI at the breaker for all bedrooms and bathrooms. Currently the Consumer Product Safety Commission doesn't require either. The bedroom breaker is about $15 more than the bathroom one for some reason (more sensitive?).

Re:US vs UK...

[Smidge204]

"Appliances" that don't use a ground/earth pin are typically things like lamps and small DC wall-wart adapters. National electric code allows for listed and labeled appliances with double insulation "or equivalent" to forgo a grounding pin. (NEC section 250.114 if you care...) This would cover nearly all consumer grade electronics like TVs as well as small counter top kitchen appliances like toasters.

Basically there is a tradeoff: If the device can be demonstrated to have little or no risk of posing a shock hazard, it does not need to be grounded.

It is also my understanding that some appliances in the UK are also ungrounded - the earth pin is either not connected to anything or made of plastic.

It is also against NEC to install new outlets that do not have a ground pin. Essentially any house built since the 1970s or so will have 3-pin outlets. Those adapters (which are recommended against by anyone with half a brain) are for those rare occasions when you're in an old building, and used properly are still fairly safe.

I've been told the new edition of the NEC also specify Arc-fault interruption (AFCI) outlets for residences - if that's any consolation.

> I also notice that no appliance I own in the USA uses insulation on the live pins of the plug to prevent accidental shocks when the plug is slightly out of the socket

I have only ever heard anecdotal evidence of people getting shocked like this. Generally speaking, if the plug is out far enough to get your finger on the pins it's too far out to be making contact. (Maybe I just have fat fingers?) Regardless, few people seem to be in the habit of gripping the plugs in a way that would make this an issue: you only need your thumb and forefinger.

> IMO the British home electrical system is much better than the USA system and I have tried to view it impartially over the years.

It strikes me, jokingly, that the UK outlets are all baby-proof because the UK is full of babies. We call it the Nanny State for a reason :)
=Smidge=

Re:US vs UK...

[icebrain]

In 36 years in this country neither I nor anyone I know of has ever been shocked in that manner. Yes it's conceivable and I'm sure someone has done it somewhere but it really just isn't a problem.

I've done it trying to plug things in in the dark. Hit one prong with my thumb and the other with a finger. That is a very odd, wierd, and slightly painful feeling, something like whacking your funny bone but without the pain part.

Re:US vs UK...

[Trepidity]

Ah yeah, I've seen that sort of thing in really old houses/apartments. I think all houses built in the last ~50 years have exclusively 3-prong outlets, though; I've only seen 2-prong outlets in pre-WW2 construction (and in Taiwan).

Re:US vs UK...

[Rhys]

They do have the convenient habit of only coming in "flat surface mount" variety though, so the cord is already against the wall. Or at least, the cord sticks no further from the wall than the plug itself does. Most US plus for some reason think it is a great idea to stick far further out from the wall than even the huge British plug due to plugging in perpendicular. You can get the smaller "flush mount" plugs for some things in the US (usually extension cords, sometimes computer power cables) but they're then next to impossible to remove because they become so flat (a bonus for the larger British plug).

I also don't recall the British plugs having the "plug falls out of the wall due to the weight of the cord" problem that FAR TOO MANY US sockets do. It could just be the house we lived in when we were in England had new enough sockets that wasn't a problem -- I don't know for sure. I do know I've experienced the plug-falls-out problem in many, many houses and apartments in the US.

Re:US vs UK...

[Ephemeriis]

Sounds like the UK ones are massively overengineered, inconvenient, and introduce extra points of failure unnecessarily.

Hm?

I don't know that I'd say that...

The UK ones typically have a bit of insulation on the prongs. This prevents you from accidentally touching live wires or shorting anything if the plug isn't fully inserted. And I doubt if it costs too much just to add a half-inch of plastic/rubber to the prongs.

The prongs themselves are much thicker and sturdier, they aren't just metal blades. They don't fold over without a lot of effort. I'm sure those cost more than the flimsy things I've got in my house... But just about every plug in my house is at least slightly bent from use.

The fuse in the plug is very nice. For some reason we here in the US don't worry too much about that... About the only GFI outlets you'll see are in bathrooms. A lot of times you'll see outlets that aren't properly grounded. You can buy all sorts of adapters to convert lightbulb sockets into electrical outlets... Or to plug a 3-prong cord into a 2-prong outlet... It's fairly easy to do something unsafe and, at best, trip a breaker - at worst, do some real damage. Putting a fuse in the cord/outlet itself means you can stop the damage before it even gets into your wall. Again, I guess this probably costs more... But I'd gladly pay a few cents extra for the safety.

UK outlets also usually have some kind of safety flap thing, that prevents you from sticking a fork in the outlet. Again, I'm sure this extra bit of plastic costs a bit more... But I think I'd be willing to pay for that added safety.

Re:US vs UK...

[MBGMorden]

A shock from an American outlet will very rarely kill you (I supposed it COULD, but I've never seen it). When I was a teenager I worked with a construction (drywall) company doing random labor tasks. Several times during things like remodels I and my brother (who also worked with me) would get assigned things like tearing out a ceiling and removing the insulation. Both of us accidentally grabbed a hot wire at least once. It hurts like a sumuma-bitch, but actually inside the home that level of current is the type of shock you can just walk off. A 5-10 minute break and we were back to work.

Re:US vs UK...

[sadtrev]

Having lived in the US, UK, Malaysia and France, I would concurr that the British plug system is far better. It was properly thought, and universally implemented across the country 50 years ago using an act of parliment on the premise that using anything else was dangerous and therefore potentially negligent. More features have been added since then (including household earth-leakage trip sensing).

I've had problems with a French pin snapping in a socket leaving an exposed live pin for my 3-year-old son to play with (luckily I spotted it in time and managed to cover it).
In the US I almost got used to the risk of shocks off electrical appliances. I also had a lab fire destroy some of my work because somebody had knocked out the cable of the pump supplying the coolant.

In Malaysia where the national standard specifies the british plug type, the biggest issue was that cheap Chinese imports sometimes didn't use it.

When basic safety is involved, I don't think that it's over-engineering. Your comment about extra points of failure doesn't make any sense.

Re:US vs UK...

[nolife]

and the lights change brightness when I switch such appliances on and off.

That is interesting. My last two houses I've lived in (both built after 1984), have had different circuits for lighting and outlets. The exception was the microwave mounted above the stove, it was powered by the lighting circuit in that area of the house. On another note, my current house has 12 gauge wiring with 20amp breakers and 20 amp outlets, my previous houses were 14 gauge wire with 15 amp circuits. I haven't cared to research the theory behind that. I assume it is cheaper to use 20 amp because you will have fewer home runs with the wires back to the box and fewer breakers in the box.

Also, do other countries have requirements of where and how many outlets have to be in each room? I believe in most areas of the US, an outlet has to be placed no more than 6 feet from a corner and no more than 12 ft from another outlet working around the room and evenly spaced as much as possible with exceptions for closets and such, 4 ft on the kitchen counters etc...

Re:US vs UK...

[Anonymous Coward]

our best secret weapon in the US is the Euro Arrogance.
nothing works better.

jr

Re:US vs UK...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm American, and have been shocked by American non-insulated pins. That makes the average more than 0.

I currently live in the UK, and can confirm the plugs in general are indeed superior.

Re:US vs UK...

[Maddog Batty]

Non grounded UK plugs are only allowed on items which are doubly insulated. This therefore requires two things to break before someone can be electrocuted.

If the lights dim when you switch on a 13A device then there is a problem with your wiring. Most likely because it is too thin. There are all sorts of regs here (in the UK) which dictate the losses allowed in the cables / cable thicknesses etc which if followed correctly mean that the lights should not dim as the voltage drop is minimal. Also note that here in the UK, a 13A device draw 3.1kW where as it is only 1.4kW in the US.

It is very rare for the sockets here to break and the pins on the plugs can't easily be bent unlike the US ones.

Also in the UK we use ring mains which allows the size of conductors to reduced by 30% or so which makes a considerably saving due to the price of copper.

Re:US vs UK...

[hey!]

Sure, but belt-and-suspenders is a good philosophy when it comes to something like this. When you take your laptop and plug it into the hotel outlet, you're trusting whoever wired that outlet to have done it to code. It almost always is, but the one time it isn't could be the one that damages the laptop or takes your life.

GFI and fuses are apples and oranges. Fuses and circuit breakers are current overload protection. Ground Fault Interruption protects against current moving in a path it was not intended to (e.g. between hot and ground rather than hot and neutral). There are plenty of ways to kill yourself with current moving between hot and neutral as intended. You can use more current on the cord than the circuit is rated for. You plug your 2A cord into a 20A circuit, and you can start a fire by drawing 10A and the GFI is happy as a clam. Your laptop is off and your frayed cord is drawing one amp because of the current that is currently melting the plastic in the cord. In that case not only is the GFI and circuit breaker happy to let you start that fire, the 2A fuse in your plug is too. You need arc-fault detection.

GFI units include a circuit breaker, so yes, there is redundancy. I'm assuming the UK codes don't let you wire buildings without circuit breakers, so it's not like the UK relies on plug fuses exclusively and the US on circuit breakers. If I am correct, then the UK has redundant current overload protection where the US does not. GFI handles ground faults, of course, but that's almost not relevant in many cases, e.g. non-grounded equipment which is supposed to have an electrically isolated case. Of course you'll want GFI if you're in the habit of using your laptop in the bathtub, but in most cases arc-fault interruption would be even more desirable.

Imagine a world where you have overload protection in your device (e.g. laptop), in the power cord plug, in the circuit breaker panel; the breaker panel also provides arc and ground fault protection. People would *still* die from electrical faults in that world, although many fewer. If you assume everything works perfectly, you can install all your protection at the breaker panel. In fact, in such a perfect world, all you'd need is current overload protection at the panel, and the odd GFI here and there to protect the people who use their laptop in the bathtub. But in the real world, you can't count on anything working, as advertised, including any of the fancy stuff you install in the panel.

In any case, the outlets in the US design wear out too quickly, in my opinion. It's a lot like the original USB design, which was fine for plugging your printer in and leaving it plugged in for the life of your system or your printer. The plug was not designed for lots of connect/disconnect cycles.

Re:US vs UK...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not going to disagree with your points, but your system isn't without its foibles either. As an American living in Ireland (which uses the same plugs as the U.K.) I notice that there are no outlets in the bathroom although there is one directly over the kitchen sink. Further, there is some bizarre electrical control system (water pump?) *inside* the shower. The wiring is not great, either, which is a surprise in a two-year-old building. The television power cycles when I turn the bathroom fan on, and also occasionally when the refrigerator compressor starts.

Of course, this is Ireland, not the U.K., so maybe it's different there.

Re:US vs UK...

[greed]

Compare "Major Appliances" to "Appliances". Hand mixer, blender, kettle, coffee maker, bread machine, coffee grinder, countertop boiler, ice cream maker, and so on. Plenty are made without a grounded cord.

Ground isn't "instant safety", though. Depending on circumstances, ground can make a fault worse. That's why the shift to double-insulated power tools with ungrounded plugs. (Say on a drill: the chuck is insulated from the motor, and the motor is insulated from the housing. So if you drill into a live wire, the circuit DOES NOT COMPLETE through the power tool to either ground or you--or both. (If you hit a Big Cable, it will be too much for the 16 gauge ground, so there'll be plenty of current to go through you, too.))

Mind you, I had a paper shredder "fail dangerous" when the double-insulating piece that insulated the cutters from the motor failed... and the motor fell out of its mounts... and turned on... and shorted hot to the control panel. (That unit should not have received ULC and CSA safety approval with a design that brittle. The motor should have been bolted to the case, not "propped" in place by a plastic widget.)

Re:US vs UK...

[SnarfQuest]

How many Americans have been killed, per year, by the 2" long plastic guns attached to those plastic GI Joe soldiers? Those are routinely confiscated at airports.

It must make you feel a great deal safer, knowing that plastic soldiers are not going to attack you during your next flight with their 2" long rifles.

Re:US vs UK...

[bkr1_2k]

"I also notice that no appliance I own in the USA uses insulation on the live pins of the plug to prevent accidental shocks when the plug is slightly out of the socket, none of the sockets contain safety shutters and that 110V cords to high wattage appliances such as vacuum cleaners get warm and the lights change brightness when I switch such appliances on and off.">/i>

You've either got really crappy wiring in your house, or your house is very old and not up to modern codes. There is no reason for lights to dim when you turn on any sort of appliance in a modern house. As for chords getting hot, I suggest you look at the quality of the chord on your equipment, not the sockets themselves. If the chord for vacuum gets hot, it is either not built from the correct gauge wire for the intended power, or there's a short in it somewhere causing a problem. That has nothing to do with the sockets in US households.

That said, I have never particularly thought any of the sockets were better than others whether I was in the US, Europe or Asia. They all accomplish the expected task of getting power to what I need. There is no need for any sort of "nationalist" attitude about any of them... they're just different, none necessarily better than the other.

Re:US vs UK...

[Big Boss]

Pussy. I've been hit by 15kV. 220 is a slight tickle compared to that. Tesla Coil primary, with a capacitor, I'm lucky to be alive. Don't try it, it hurts like hell.

Re:US vs UK...

[Darth Sdlavrot]

Perhaps. But I'll guess that most 220v outlets in the US aren't protected by GFCI breakers. (Is there such a thing as a 220v GFCI outlet? I don't see them in my search.)

Perhaps in new construction and remodels.

Re:US vs UK...

[russotto]

To be fair, most houses have 220v as well as 110v (check behind your dryer). 220v requires MUCH more expensive wiring

No it doesn't. Ordinary Romex can handle 220V fine; the insulation is rated for 600V. New US 220V wiring costs more because it requires four wires rather than three (two hots, a neutral, and a ground), but that's because it's split phase, not because of the voltage. And it's probably still cheaper than what it would take to deliver the same power with 110V.

Re:US vs UK...

[SnarfQuest]

Wait till he sees how christmas tree lights are set up by average people. (See the mythbusters show about Christmas Trees).

Re:US vs UK...

[orudge]

That might be so, but I can't say, a Brit living in the US, that I'm especially enamoured by the little sparks that I tend to see now and then when plugging devices into the wall. When I explain to my American friends that we have little switches on the sockets to turn them off and on, they can't seem to understand the point of them.

Re:US vs UK...

[BenBoy]

Yea! I'm above average!

Re:US vs UK...

[Anonymous Coward]

i have a whole kitchen full of them, actually

Re:US vs UK...

[confused one]

Is there such a thing as a 220v GFCI outlet?

Yes.

Re:US vs UK...

[jonbryce]

I've never seen the shutter on a British outlet fail or jam.

The AC adapters for cellphones or other low voltage DC appliances are much bigger than normal British AC plugs because of all the voltage conversion stuff inside. Most of them come with a clip-on British plug that can be replaced with clip-on plugs for use in the rest of Europe. They are pretty much the same size whichever one you clip on.

Re:US vs UK...

[russotto]

220v takes the same three wires to run as 110v. Two carriers (hot and hot hot) and a ground. There's no neutral in 220v, so you can run either 110v or 220v from the same romex wire - just not at the same time.

US 220V appliances require two hots and a neutral. The current NEC requires a safety ground as well. The appliances typically run heating elements with the 220V, with everything else being 110V.

Re:US vs UK...

[1s44c]

Lets not forget that the UK had to release a document covering injuries from cookies (biscuits). Seems half the nation has been injured by them at some point...

You mean http://www.rockybiscuit.co.uk/research.html ?

That's an advert not a serious report.

Re:US vs UK...

[Skippy_kangaroo]

They can handle it - it's part of the job description. We have the same thing in Australia and I have yet to have a switch fail anywhere in my house (or houses I have lived in throughout my life). It works on high current kitchen appliances like kettles and toasters and it works on lights.

Re:US vs UK...

[TheRaven64]

The falling out of the wall problem isn't the most alarming issue with US plugs. The falling slightly out, just far enough that the connection is still (poorly) made and you get sparks flying when you turn the device on problem is. How anyone could defend this design is beyond me.

Re:US vs UK...

[BenBoy]

One fine day, I'll read a whole thread before I post to it (see my comment "Yea! I'm above average" above ...).

Re:US vs UK...

[Anonymous Coward]

I would like to see how many people die in the US by electrocution caused by a plug/socket.

There may be a case for say that small children may stick something in the socket, but they do sell plastic caps that any good parent should purchase.

Re:US vs UK...

[Anonymous Coward]

We have those in the US, too. It's ten bucks for a pack of ten at {local big box hardware store} Well, except for the switch. You can probably get it if you look around though. There are outlets with GFI reset buttons built in after all.

Re:US vs UK...

[confused one]

The bedroom one is not a GFCI (ground fault circuit interruptor). It is AFCI (arc fault circuit interruptor).

Re:US vs UK...

[PRMan]

Do you sleep on a waterbed or something? Seriously, what is the rationale for a GFCI in a BEDroom?

Re:US vs UK...

[amorsen]

They don't save lives. Sockets in other countries don't kill anyone, and therefore there are noone to save.

UK plugs are just damn inconvenient and ugly. Carrying around chargers in the UK is a pain.

Re:US vs UK...

[ircmaxell]

I think you fail to understand the difference between a fuse and a surge protector. A fuse protects from over current only. It offers very limited protection for over voltage. A surge as you're describing comes from a sharp increase in voltage (from 120 to several hundred or thousand volts). A surge protector typically defeats a surge via a zener diode (One that only lets current flow if the voltage is over a threashold) shorted to ground. So if the voltage rises above the clamping voltage, all current is redirected to ground.

This also differs from a GFCI in operation. A GFCI detects ground faults. That means current leaking from the primary to the ground pin. In normal operation, this shouldn't happen. But if a circuit is shorted, or becomes damaged, the ground (which is usually connected to the chasis on metal items) can be connected to the primary lead. So the GFCI detects this leakage, and kills power. Surge protectors, GCFI and fuses are very different systems, each designed to protect from a specific hazard.

Now, a circuit breaker is a fuse. Their very nature only protects against excess current only. There are two important differences however. A breaker is a lot faster at disconnecting current than a fuse (it's designed to be fast), and it's resettable. So to say that the UK version is better because it has a fuse shows me a lack of understanding of practicality or safety. Fuses are designed to protect the wiring. That's it. Nothing else. A fuse prevents a short circuit from melting the wiring in the house and causing a fire. With the excess current required to trip a fuse, the damage to the equipment is likely damaged already. And it will be more than enough current to kill a person (It only takes about 0.015 amps to kill someone, regardless of voltage).

Re:US vs UK...

[tom17]

round pins?

Re:US vs UK...

[berashith]

Some locations do have a standard on 20 amp circuits installing the plug "upside-down", for preventing potential fires if something manages to contact both hot pins.

Re:US vs UK...

[mcgrew]

In the US, equipment that needs its own fuse usually has a barrel fuse in the equipment, not the plug. And it's almost never the plug's fault when there's a fire, almost always a worn wire.

Re:US vs UK...

[russotto]

In the 2008 NEC, nearly all outlets will be required to have combination AFCI and GFCI breakers, as well as shuttered outlets.

A solution in search of a problem. I wonder how much lobbying by the AFCI patent-holders it took to get that one.

The problem with these constantly-updated regulatory codes is that once they've gotten things "good enough", they have to start going looking for ever more marginal "problems" to solve, and damn the expense.

AFCIs. Right. Just how many fires are there which could have been prevented by an AFCI in a house which was even close to up to code in the first place? And what is the point of GFCIs everywhere, other than to tick people off when they trip spuriously on electronics, older refrigerators, and such?

Re:US vs UK...

[Jason Levine]

Funny this should come up. A few days ago, I was pulling out the plug for my laptop from my surge strip, taking care not to pull out some other plugs nearby, when my fingers slipped under the plug and touched the metal. I felt a small surge before I instinctively pulled my fingers away. (Felt like a low vibration almost.) I'm guessing (since I've never experienced this before) that there was still some electrical connection and it went coursing through me. Luckily, I was fine. I do think what happened wasn't something that would commonly happen though.

Re:US vs UK...

[confused one]

There are quite a few U.S. houses built in the 50's with 2-prong outlets. Mine is one.

Re:US vs UK...

[Anonymous Coward]

There are many sad little people who will turn *anything* into a contest between 'their' group and 'other' groups.

Re:US vs UK...

[scharkalvin]

Well there are OTHER plug standards in use here in the USA. Ever see a crows foot plug connector?
How about a twist-lock? Now there are plugs with BALLS!.

Re:US vs UK...

[that IT girl]

And while I don't know statistics, I'll throw this random anecdote in--the only person I know who was killed in an electrical fire was my friend's mum in the UK. (More safety features on the plugs, but twice the voltage... IANAE but I suppose that could cause problems.)

Re:US vs UK...

[mrdoogee]

Actually I believe that they rated the EU plug as a 0 (out of "infinity"), and a US plug as a 1 (out of 10).

Re:US vs UK...

[PitaBred]

Wall space, and bag space. Ever traveled with one of those fuckers in your bag? Or worse, more than one? American plugs are much easier to pack and manage IMHO

Re:US vs UK...

[Anonymous Coward]

biased? this is the most BS article I've ever read (and I read cracked.com religiously). I could tell from the beginning that the UK would be the winner. None of their explanations are even worthwhile reading (some may find them funny, although i certainly did not).

the article was a total waste of time (seriously, who the hell even allowed it to be posted on /.??)

Re:US vs UK...

[vlm]

Seriously, what is the rationale for a GFCI in a BEDroom?

Electric blanket in a possibly wet environment where the people may be damp from shower or

Re:US vs UK...

[PitaBred]

He's probably talking about blenders, toasters, food processors, etc. as appliances, not major appliances like fridges and stoves.

Re:US vs UK...

[confused one]

That's not entirely true. The neutral has a current running through it and therefore is at an elevated voltage. The independant ground should have no current running through it and should be at ground potential. You can't rely on the neutral for safety. I have seen them floating as high as 8 volts due to IR drop in the system. Relying on the neutral to be a ground, you could easily become the return path for all the current.

Re:US vs UK...

[Fastolfe]

It always amazes me that people can be against a regulation that costs almost nothing and saves lives. If you could catch a serial killer for almost no investment, you'd do it.

Please quantify "almost nothing", the number of "lives" saved, and the value of a human life. The latter is subjective, of course, but critical in determining whether a regulation intended to save lives is worth the cost.

Some would say that $1 is "almost no investment". So should we tax the entire population of the US (300M people), and spend that 300M to catch a single serial killer? Maybe save 5 lives? But it's just $1 right? Surely $1 is worth 5 lives!

Re:US vs UK...

[gzunk]

Rubbish, I've been shocked numerous times by 240v, and while it's unpleasant it's not as big a deal as you make it out to be.

Re:US vs UK...

[kestasjk]

It's funny that there are people in the world that can actually take some sort of pride in their electrical plug sockets.

Re:US vs UK...

[Anonymous Coward]

It only takes 10 milli-amps to stop your heart. Those outlets can carry 20 amps or more.

Re:US vs UK...

[gzunk]

Lights dimming? Not going to happen unless it's a lamp plugged into a socket as well. The lighting circuit in UK houses is separate from the outlet circuit. Dunno if it's the same in the states.

Re:US vs UK...

[Xtravar]

I thought they sold those adapters for guitar amps. Not really. If anyone can explain why a "ground lift" helps reduce signal noise on amplified sound, I'd be glad to hear it.

Re:US vs UK...

[jonbryce]

They rated the Euro plug as the worst.

Re:US vs UK...

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps you should go read the article.

Re:US vs UK...

[Anonymous Coward]

When did he mention over-current??? He was talking about something shorting the pins, exactly what GFCI was meant to protect against.

Re:US vs UK...

[Copperhamster]

My (Great depression era) house has lots of odd plugs. I've got the combo-duplex (double T 120 outlet), 4 different types of 240 outlets, including a nema 2-15 ungrounded, not counting the stove and dryer. I also have a "1-15" ungrounded 'strip plug' where they just ran two slots the right distance apart and you could plug anywhere along its 18" length in the bathroom, but it's not live. It is part of the mirror molding though so tough to remove. I've slowly been putting in grounded receptecles where I can, and using gfci gorunded where I can't (can add normal gorunds 'past' a gfci ground outlet if there is ground wiring from outlet to outlet, and still be 'to code', but I've not done that because it's either 3 wire all the way or 2 all the way). I've converted all the weird 240s (which were for window AC or heater units, house has central air now) to 120 since they had good wiring and were run using standard 2+1 12 gauge wire. All my new outlets are shuttered, it costs like 50 cents more per. There's also a 240V twist lock plug (not socket) run out under the deck.. I traced it back and it runs near the main breaker box, but is rolled up. I think someone intended to put a generator in at some point and never got around to finishing it up.

Re:US vs UK...

[hrimhari]

I'm kind of surprised the place is still standing... I really sort of thought it would have burned down from an electrical fire by now.

That's because not being able to run a microwave along with a stove without tripping a breaker usually means that you have working breakers, not just that your wiring is inconvenient.

AFAIK, in most cases the difference between ground and neutral is irrelevant. It's a nice security measure, but it hardly means that your building will catch fire just because it's missing.

Re:US vs UK...

[Rick17JJ]

In the early 1960s, I lived in a house which only had those old style 2-prong outlets. Ever since then, every house, apartment or business that I have lived or worked in has had the newer style 3-prong outlets with hot, neutral and ground.

In the last few years, I have read that all bathroom outlets in the U.S., are now required to be GFI outlets. Ground fault interrupter (GFI) outlets quickly switch off if a ground fault is detected. Those outlets usually have a reset button in the center.

For many years now the voltage in the U.S. has been 120 Volts AC, instead of the 110 Volts AC which the article mentions.

Re:US vs UK...

[RalphSleigh]

I'm British, and didn't think to be proud of ours plugs until that article came up...

As well as a fuse in the plugs, we also have GFCI breakers installed on all the circuits that feed plugs, they do work, my sister once touched the live prong trying to remove a plug with a broken cover (didn't switch it off at the socket beforehand either), it tripped, everything in the house turned off, but she was unharmed.

Also everyone is taught in year 9 (13-14) how to wire up a plug to ensure all the safety features work, and change the fuse.

Re:US vs UK...

[russotto]

That might be so, but I can't say, a Brit living in the US, that I'm especially enamoured by the little sparks that I tend to see now and then when plugging devices into the wall. When I explain to my American friends that we have little switches on the sockets to turn them off and on, they can't seem to understand the point of them.

The little switches just mean you don't see the sparks. They're still there when you flip the switch, at the switch contacts rather than between the plug and socket contacts. Unless those things are so overengineered they're actually a switch with a relay and zero-crossing detector.

Re:US vs UK...

[1s44c]

Perhaps you should go read the article.

The British people didn't all get together down the pub and write it. It does not represent their views.

And it's slashdot, nobody actually reads the articles.

Re:US vs UK...

[damburger]

Having visited the US, and used both US and UK plugs, I say what you call overengineering, I call engineering. US plugs are a step above crimped wires.

And don't get me started on US vs. UK road signs. Ours are works of art in comparison...

Re:US vs UK...

[Trepidity]

Ah yeah, looks like I got the timeframe wrong. This book (Google Books link) says grounded outlets for residential construction were added as a requirement to the National Electrical Code around 1960 (though presumably some states added the requirement earlier).

Re:US vs UK...

[hrimhari]

Don't forget paper cuts! These are deadly!

Re:US vs UK...

[darthdavid]

I like to think of the sparks as a safety feature. They let you know it's live ;).

Re:US vs UK...

[TheNinjaroach]

Depends on the appliance, I suppose. If the device runs purely 220v, there is no need for a neutral - just the safety ground. In the US I've used NEMA 6-15 for 220v just fine, which allows me to carry more power over the same 2 carrier, 12 ga wire normally used for 110v.

Re:US vs UK...

[damburger]

Its because Americans are reflexively proud of everything with a US flag stamped on it, yet at the same time are culturally unable to make a better, standardised design widespread.

Re:US vs UK...

[BasilBrush]

No, it isn't just new UK sockets. The cable falling out isn't a problem in Britain for any socket or any age. They are properly engineered. They aren't ticky-tack.

Re:US vs UK...

[confused one]

Unless you are overloading the circuit, that almost certainly has nothing to do with the appliance.

Mine does this. I have an older house where the original portion of the house was all wired (daisy-chain) on only two 20 amp circuits. If I plug in a 10 amp vacuum or an iron, the lights in the front half of the house dim. It's certainly not up to modern code; but, this is pretty typical of these pre-60's or pre-70's houses that have not been re-wired yet.

Re:US vs UK...

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

Small devices can be powered and charged over USB, and indeed many now are. For example, the EU has mandated the inclusion of Micro USB charging for all new mobiles from 2010 onwards. With its introduction for such a ubiquitous device, the standard will probably see wider usage in a number of smaller devices.

Re:US vs UK...

[BasilBrush]

Perhaps you should read it. But get yourself a sense of humour first.

Re:US vs UK...

[Cytotoxic]

Why would that be, if we're comparing apples to apples (and not wiring for stoves)? As far as copper goes, 220 would presumably take 4 wires (hot, hot, neutral, ground) rather than the 3 for 110V, but for the same (wattage) capacity the wires would be thinner, probably using less copper, since the current would be half as great.

It's not the voltage making it more expensive, it is the Amperage. 220 in the US is mainly for large appliances with a large current draw that would not be efficient or safe at 110v. Check out those big 30 amp breakers in your fuse box. Most of your 110v breakers are half that size, so the wiring can be much smaller and cheaper. Now imagine how big and expensive the wires would be to carry the same power at 110v.....

So, 220v is really only more expensive because of the application to high amp situations. (and perhaps a little bit due to the added insulation required for the doubling of the voltage) A 6 amp 220v circuit for household use would probably be identical cost or cheaper than 15 amp 110v. It's just that nobody uses that.

Re:US vs UK...

[PRMan]

US plugs are safer because they only carry 110v. That, in and of itself, makes US wiring safer. 220v is much more deadly than 110v. Since all of my appliances work just fine on 110v, in what way is 220v better?

From the stats I can find, UK deaths by electrical outlets are .486 per 100,000 and US rates are .015 per 100,000, more than an order of magnitude safer, even without massive numbers of safety features. I have grabbed live wires at a plug a few times in my life, and it just jolts your arm a little bit. I suppose it's possible to die that way, but I don't know anyone who has personally. I've never even heard of it in the US but I guess it does happen (faulty wiring in the home or workplace was included in the stats above). Bottom line, I am seriously not worried one bit about grabbing live outlet lines. It hurts a little, so I don't do it for fun, but I'm really not worried about dying or anything.

I like having very small (polarized) plugs for small appliances. Who wants to carry around a ginormous brick in your bag just to plug something in? For serious appliances like microwaves, there are serious 3-pronged grounded plugs. This gives options based on the appliance rather than a one-size-fits all system of massive plugs.

If my pins get bent, I just bend them back. This happens so infrequently, it's amazing that someone even mentioned it. Also, I have NEVER had a plug "fall out". Seriously? Fall out? If someone kicks it, I would RATHER it come out of the wall so they don't go flying head over heels and really injure themselves. I have lived in the US for almost 40 years now, and I can count on one hand the times a plug was kicked out or bent.

Re:US vs UK...

[BitZtream]

As a British person living in the USA I notice that the majority of my sockets outside kitchen and bathroom are not GFI protected (either at the socket or the fuse panel) and that most appliances do not use an Earth Pin.

Move out of the apartment/house/building that was built 30 years ago and you'll notice a major change. All of these issues are attributed to older homes, most cities have had wiring codes that require GFI anywhere near water for a long time, even though its silly for a number of reasons. If they are going to be installed you should do it everywhere, not just near water.

If you have appliances without common grounds, then you have appliances that are old. You won't find anything sold new that doesn't require a common ground anywhere in the US, and haven't been able to for 10 to 20 years.

I also am in awe that socket adapters are legally sold that convert non earthed sockets into earthed sockets and light bulb sockets into earthed sockets, the safety implications are huge.

Not really. An issue occurs if there is a wiring problem in the appliance, in which case the Earth ground runs the risk starting a fire. A wiring fault is dangerous, regardless of backup protections in place, theres only so much you can do. GFI helps and is the best solutions, but it can fail in dangerous ways as well.

Also, before adapters were sold, the solution was to simply cut off the third prong.

I also notice that no appliance I own in the USA uses insulation on the live pins of the plug to prevent accidental shocks when the plug is slightly out of the socket,

Uhm, don't touch the metal on the plug and it won't matter. I'm tired of this bullshit of doing all sorts of stuff to protect stupid people.

none of the sockets contain safety shutters

They may use GFI breakers, so the whole circuit is protected rather than just the outlet, of course its probably back to the original problem of you being in a building thats not using current standards.

high wattage appliances such as vacuum cleaners get warm

All wires get warmer as more current flows through them due to the resistance in them, just like the processor in your PC. Theres nothing wrong with it from a safety perspective as long as the cord is kept in good condition. There are plenty of reasons why its inefficient and they shouldn't cheap out on the wire, but thats another story.

The dimming you see is because the building you are in was probably wired with 14 gauge wire rather than 12 or 10. It was done when codes were didn't require heavier wire because you didn't draw as much current from the outlet with the things you plugged into them. I bought a house built in 1977, with 14 gauge wire (10 amp). Spent my first summer rewiring the house to use 10 gauge(20 amp), although code requires 12 (15 amp) because I'm aware that I draw more power than typical. You are in effect trying to run Win7 on your Pentium 66mhz machine. Or to use a car analogy, trying to pull a semi trailer full of goods with a Ford Focus.

If you look at the gauges and amperage I used above, you'll see that our codes are actually well within safe ranges. 12 gauge wire can safely care 20 amps without an issue. 10 gauge can carry 30 with no problems. Our codes however, throw in an extra layer to deal with the unexpected, but not everything was built to the current code.
All new homes will have at least 12 or they won't pass inspection in any city I'm aware of.

If you are plugging a vacuum cleaner into a socket that only has 2 flat pins and draws more than 10 amps, then your vacuum cleaner is using the wrong plug and you are putting it in the wrong outlet. If it doesn't require more than 10 amps then the wiring is sufficient, as long as the breaker or more likely in your case, fuse, is only a 10 amp breaker. Code requires one of th

Re:US vs UK...

[Anonymous Coward]

I think this might just be a game changer...
http://www.soundprint.co.uk/blog/?p=106

Re:US vs UK...

[Anonymous Coward]

You are seriously calling a fuse an "extra point of failure"? 'cos that would invalidate your opinion on anything more complex than a 9v battery/bulb circuit.

Re:US vs UK...

[jimicus]

IIRC in the UK any device that has a conductive case parts requires a dedicated ground pin wiring to prevent shock in the event of internal mis wiring or internal wiring breaks/shorts to case.

You don't RC.

In very basic terms, every device requires at least two layers of safety. These layers can either be two layers of insulation ("double insulated") or one of insulation and one earth.

This applies right from the plug - so all appliance cables have two layers of insulation. Contrast this with the US where 110v cables frequently have only a single layer of insulation.

Re:US vs UK...

[MooUK]

The intention is that you *always* use the switch before unplugging anything. I've seen plenty of sockets where the wall around it has deteriorated to the point where the socket assembly isn't secure, but the switch and socket still function perfectly.

Re:US vs UK...

[squiggleslash]

Oh, and they're top grounded rather than bottom grounded too. (Think: objects falling over prongs on partially sticking out plug.)

Re:US vs UK...

[damburger]

Actually, there was kind of a national vote on plugs; a democratically elected government decided that this would be the standard plug design. And frankly, it is something to be proud of; an engineering problem was solved nationwide and that solution has lasted us decades without any real hiccups.

Re:US vs UK...

[Fjandr]

The CPSC has little to do with whether you use GFCI breakers or not. The IEEE develops standards published in the NEC, which is adopted by any city or state government that controls building standards.

The bedroom breakers are more expensive because they're AFCI. They trip not only when there is a ground fault but when there is an arc fault as well, since the vast majority of residential electrical fires start from an arc.

Re:US vs UK...

[camperdave]

In most of North America there are two hot lines, one neutral and one ground. Relative to ground, the neutral is at 0 volts. Hot 1 is at +110, and hot 2 is at -110 volts (hot1 and hot2 are opposite phases). Thus there is 220 volts from hot1 to hot2.

Neutral is not used in a 220 volt circuit. Stoves do use the neutral, because they run 110v for the oven light, the rotissery spit motor, etc.

Re:US vs UK...

[jimicus]

Rubbish, I've been shocked numerous times by 240v, and while it's unpleasant it's not as big a deal as you make it out to be.

If you're lucky, it stings and your arm gets thrown back. If you're unlucky, you are dead.

But saying that a 1.5V AA battery would kill you if it was wired directly into your heart.

Re:US vs UK...

[Anonymous Coward]

But if you never accidentally touch live wires, how will you ever build up your electrical resistance?

Re:US vs UK...

[StonyUK]

I totally agree and would add to it the fact that US sockets seem to get so loose over time that plugs will simply fall out and have to be balanced in the socket. Very common problem in hotels and apartment buildings. Also, I am used to seeing sparks flash and arc when inserting & removing things from the wall. Not at all comforting when the device at the other end is a laptop.

IMHO the only thing the US system has got is the nice small size of the plug itself.

Re:US vs UK...

[adamgundy]

yeah, except they get pulled out when you need to plug something in, and left (or dropped) on the floor. then the kid chokes on them. I ended up using these:

http://www.safety1st.com/usa/eng/Products/Home-Safety/Electrical/Details/467-10406-Swivel-Outlet-Cover

but they're about $5 each, not 50c each each like the little plastic doohickeys.

you can also get the sockets with built-in guards, but then you have to put up with the sighing and tsk-tsking of everyone who visits because they can't see the protection. seems better to me to just have it in every socket, for a few extra pence (or cents) at build time. especially when you eg visit grandparents and have to run round with a handful of plastic widgets to safe someone else's house.

don't forget that 240V is far more dangerous than 110V (especially with UK ring mains - you're exposed to 30+ amps too, instead of the 15-20A in the US). having been shocked with both at various times, 110V is painful but bearable.. 240V makes you feel like your heart's stopped!

as far as the switches, yes, they're built to be used repeatedly (eg: lamps). I haven't been able to find a socket here in the US with built in switches - it would have to be some sort of combined receptacle and faceplate..

Re:US vs UK...

[|TheMAN]

Many Japanese plugs have the same British style "shielding" on the prongs due to the stricter standards imposed by PSE, MITI and JIS in Japan. The "shielding" is a dielectric covering about 2mm end of the blade closest to the plastic part you grab on. This, like the BS1363 plug, is safer in case the plug decides to partially fall off the wall outlet and reduces electrocution/shorting hazards. My Japanese Playstation2 came with this style of plug but is unpolarized unlike the US version which has a polarized plug without the "shielding". Same thing goes for the Nikon camera battery charger that I got (also Japan market).

It's laughable that many DC driven appliances uses the annoying polarized plug when it is completely unnecessary in the safety perspective. It makes it difficult to use items you bring with you from the US to an overseas hotel because their special outlets have unpolarized plugs (and practially all outlets in Japan for that matter). Even some of the socket adapters are that way too, which forces me to grind off the "fatter" polarized blade before I get on the plane!

On another note, I'd like to correct that mains voltage in North America is now 120V... it used to be 110 a long long time ago, but it is now 120 to better account for transmission losses. Japan's voltage is also 100V (not 110 as the article stated), the lowest in the world. The article also fails to mention that there are still some BS546 plugs in existence in the UK due to older installation or preferred use in some industries (apparently) such as theaters, due to the lack of internal fuse and non-requirement for a earthing pin to be pushed first to allow plug insertion The BS546 plugs look like the current "euro" plug, but with different spacing and size. These plugs were also well used into the mid-80s in some British colonies.

As for those who bitch about their plugs falling off their American style outlets due to frequent use, get rid of the 50 cent standard issue POS that is allowed in residential installations with industrial or hospital grade ones. FWIW, many home theater enthusiasts prefer to use hospital grade plugs and outlets due to the high insertion and retaining force, heavy duty wear rate, and the fact that some outlets have a built in TVSS and minimal noise filtering. Hospital grade plugs/outlets practically have the same level of force as the BS1363 plugs in practice but they are very hard to find. Industrial grade plugs are the next best thing and aren't that bad despite the lower grade. However, if you're just a cheap bastard, any commercial grade outlet is better than the el cheapo 50 cent residential one!

Re:US vs UK...

[Rick17JJ]

It has actually been 240 volts and 120 volts in most parts of the U.S. for the last several decades now. At least that has been true here in Arizona for many years. People frequently say 110 Volts out of habit, because that what they remember it being roughly 40 or 50 years ago. They article claimed that the U.S. only uses 110 volts. Besides that minor error, nearly every home or business built within the last 40 years, has had the newer style 3-prong outlets with hot neutral and ground.

The higher the voltage, the smaller the wires can be, for the same amount of loss or a certain distance. However, our "wimpy" lower outlets are somewhat safer, from an electrical shock standpoint. With 120 volts or less, I have heard of electricians occasionally working on a circuit without shutting the power down first. I know of two instances where electricians stood on a very dry piece of wood, for insulation while working on the hot wires with their bare hands. In one case the electrician got a very slight electrical shock, that he described as being about like licking a small 9-volt smoke detector battery, to see if is still good. I doubt that they would try that with 220 volts or 240 volts. Electricians usually also have special soles in their shoes.

By the way, I am not an electrician or an expert on any of that.

Re:US vs UK...

[Anonymous Coward]

A Honda Ridgeline is not remotely a car.

Re:US vs UK...

[Bai jie]

or! or what? What else could possibly get you wet in bed!? Slashdot has got to know!

Re:US vs UK...

[DaveGod]

Yes here in UK have a ground wire, a fuse in the plug and also a fusebox at the mains. Historically the "fusebox" has been fuse wire but they've been replaced with GFI circuit breakers (though we call them RCD) - a fuse box in the mains is rare now. In blocks of flats/apartments there is a further set of shared controls but I'm not sure what's there.

Additionally many products are double-insulated though AFAIK this is more a result of products generally being designed for the global market. I gather this is the reason for the earth pin generally being made of plastic on foreign-made electricals.

For what it's worth people's houses are still being burned to the ground because they left their mobile phone charging.

Re:US vs UK...

[CaptCookie]

In the U.S. about seven children per day are treated in emergency rooms for injuries caused by contact with an electrical socket.

More information here.

Perhaps those children just aren't "average" enough?

Re:US vs UK...

[damburger]

"Euro Arrogance"? Thats a chuckle.

Re:US vs UK...

[Anonymous Coward]

Take a look at any commonly-sold toaster or toaster oven -- 2-pin, never 3. I'm fairly sure the microwave ovens at my workplace lack a grounding pin as well, and those are high-end Panasonic microwaves. Oh, and don't get me started on blenders (I've seen some in recent days which are 3-pin, amazingly).

Bottom line is: yes, a large number of kitchen appliances do lack a grounding pin. Very disappointing in this day and age.

By the way, my toaster draws 2 amps. How about that? Munch munch...

Re:US vs UK...

[Teun]

Very insightful.

The combination of proper double insulation and GFS are regarding electrocution the best electrical safety one can get, it's near-intrinsic.
Here in The netherlands there have been no fatalities since over thirty years ago 30mA. GFS were made mandatory.

For fire safety we still need fuses and/or fused breakers.

Re:US vs UK...

[rho]

I would be very interested to see the stats of death per capita due to electrical shock in the home for USA and UK.

That wouldn't tell you anything re: the 2-prong vs. 3-prong debate unless the data is broken out by how the electrical shock occurred.

The purpose of the third ground prong is to provide a path to ground for the appliance's casing. Interestingly enough, most appliances are built reasonably carefully so that their case won't become electrified. Crispy chunks of long pig do not buy new blenders, so they've got an incentive to do so. I imagine most deaths due to electric shock occur when the homeowner is dicking around with the wiring in the wall or ceiling while adding a ceiling fan or a hot tub, not from getting a fatal jolt of juice from the Cuisinart.

It's not that serious of a safety issue. It will sort itself out in time, without Chicken Littling everybody to death.

Re:US vs UK...

[Alphathon]

I don't know if there are regulations on that kind of thing in Ireland (or here in the UK for that matter) but it seems just plain neglegent to put a socket above a sink, especially at 240V. You might want to find out who the electrician was that did that.

Re:US vs UK...

[BlackSnake112]

I have seen quite a few newer homes where a GFI was installed in the bedroom. This was not just in homes build near the water either. I am not sure why this is the case. My sister's house the whole house is on GFIs. It was a pre-fab. Maybe that is code for that type of home?

Re:US vs UK...

[plague3106]

As a British person living in the USA I notice that the majority of my sockets outside kitchen and bathroom are not GFI protected (either at the socket or the fuse panel) and that most appliances do not use an Earth Pin.

Because a GFI will cause the entire rest of the circuit to fail, so they're only needed in a few locations. Not sure how grounding a toaster helps, but maybe there's a reason to..

I also am in awe that socket adapters are legally sold that convert non earthed sockets into earthed sockets and light bulb sockets into earthed sockets, the safety implications are huge. I think it is a fair assessment to use 110V non earth sockets as many home have them.

Well, our cities don't seem to be burning constantly due to electrical fires, so perhaps your fears are overblown.

I also notice that no appliance I own in the USA uses insulation on the live pins of the plug to prevent accidental shocks when the plug is slightly out of the socket

You should be sure the plug is fully inserted, and the plug should provide a "grip" that keeps it in place. If the plug falls out of the socket, its time to replace the socket. Oh, and don't stick your fingers into a live socket.

none of the sockets contain safety shutters

You can buy plastic plugs for that, if its a concern. But as a rule, we teach people not to stick things into them. Call it "common sense," if you will.

110V cords to high wattage appliances such as vacuum cleaners get warm

So? Your laptop gets warm using it too..

the lights change brightness when I switch such appliances on and off

Bad wiring plan. Applicances that can do that should be on their very own circuit, not part of other circuits.

IMO the British home electrical system is much better than the USA system and I have tried to view it impartially over the years.

Good effort, maybe some of the points I raise will give you a clearer picture of the other side.

Re:US vs UK...

[Teun]

Although the GFI/GFS outlets are an interim solution in existing buildings the protection should really be at the switch board.

After all it' s not unheard of that someone gets a shock fiddling with the wireing or a ceiling lamp...

Re:US vs UK...

[plague3106]

Hrm... well, if you're talking about 40 sockets, and GFIs are 9.99 or standard ones are $0.49.. well I'll use GFI where appropriate, but nowhere else.

Re:US vs UK...

[Teun]

Nor do they need to be as there are fuses or fused breakers at the switch board.

Re:US vs UK...

[IMightB]

In dunno about that. In every house/apartment I've ever lived in the upside-down plugs were connected to a wall switch. I was told by an inspector/electrician that it's done that way so it's easy to locate which outlet is controlled by the wall switch.

Re:US vs UK...

[AndrewNeo]

If I recall correctly, the power companies provide between 110-120V, usually ending up around 115V in most areas. So it's really interchangeable.

Re:US vs UK...

[|TheMAN]

NEC and CSA specifies 14 gauge wiring for 15 amp installations and 12 gauge wiring for 20 amp installations IIRC. This is apparent if you visit a Home Depot and look at the boxes of romex wiring ;)

Re:US vs UK...

[Anonymous Coward]

I am a master electrician. The NEC does not specify the orientation of receptacles, switched or not. The ground pin can be on the top, bottom, or the receptacle can even be sideways. You can have receptacles facing up (in a floor) or down (in a ceiling). It doesn't matter.

Re:US vs UK...

[BikeHelmet]

Other than that, identical.

Not true. The UK ones don't smile.

Re:US vs UK...

[Anonymous Coward]

What would you suggest, every 50+ year old house being rewired? We're already bankrupt.

Sounds like an excellent way to spend some stimulus money to me.

Re:US vs UK...

[clone53421]

You can get sturdier and/or fused plugs of the US variety, too. They just cost more.

Re:US vs UK...

[BikeHelmet]

Don't forget - US plugs also have a smile or shocked face, reminding you not to touch them!

Re:US vs UK...

[Smoke2Joints]

They don't save lives. Sockets in other countries don't kill anyone, and therefore there are noone to save.

[citation needed]

Re:US vs UK...

[Grishnakh]

Yeah, that's what I figured. However, I have seen a convention (not a requirement at all) that many house electricians use where they put the ground pin on the bottom (like a face) for most receptacles, except those which are switched by a wall switch. This makes it easy to figure out which receptacle in a bedroom is switched by the 2nd wall switch, so you know which one to plug the lamp into. Also, it's always the top of the two receptacles that is switched; the bottom is always on.

Re:US vs UK...

[snspdaarf]

In 10th grade electronics, I was poking fun at a flyback transformer, and it poked back. Hard. Nothing can say "leave me alone" like electronics.

Re:US vs UK...

[clone53421]

Those adapters are designed so that the ground pin screws into hole in the middle of the outlet, which is connected to the metal shell of the outlet, which is grounded.

People don't, but they are designed to be used this way. Not properly grounding the adapter is, as you said, a safety hazard and I'm sure it violates quite a few electrical codes.

Re:US vs UK...

[jo_ham]

The UK plug is that way up by default - with the earth pin on top. The earth pin is also longer than the live and neutral pins so it is the first pin to make electrical contact in the socket and the last to break it.

The earth pin also opens the shutters on the socket that allow the live and neutral pins to connect.

Re:US vs UK...

[HereIAmJH]

However, many older houses don't have 3-prong outlets and the system has no earth ground connection, so there's not much you can do.

The problem with older homes is not that the outlets are only 3-prong, it's that the wiring in the walls has no ground. Some two-prong outlets are installed in metal boxes that are grounded. If that is the case you can safely use a 3-prong adapter connected to the screw in the faceplate. On those it is possible to upgrade the outlet without rewiring the house.

And FWIW, when you do have a properly wired 3-prong outlet, you just have parallel grounds going back to the circuit panel. The white and bare copper ground are connected to the same bus.

Another bit of useless trivia; it has become standard practice to install the 3-prong outlet 'upside down' so that the ground prong is on the top. Since the ground prong is slightly longer on cords it aids in safely plugging in a device.

Re:US vs UK...

[damburger]

Someone modded me troll. Troll doesn't mean 'has a differing opinion' you know. Unless you are a libertarian of course :)

Re:US vs UK...

[lgw]

There are audiophiles who run the case of their amps "hot", because they are retarded. Outside of that, people do deeply stupid things to avoid ground loop noise problems. Instead, avoid ground loops (if you have two pieces of audio equipment that both use 3-prong sockets and will be connected in any way, and you plug them into different outlets, you create a large and efficient antenna that can receive all sorts of noise, so plug em into the same outlet if there is a problem). For pro audio setups get a pro electrician, or go out in a blaze of glory, either way will entertain.

Re:US vs UK...

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know about your signs in the UK, but I really love roundabouts. I think we need more of them here in the States. They're starting to catch on, but unfortunately most of our drivers have no idea how to drive in them.

Re:US vs UK...

[jackhererUK]

The circuit breakers in my house are 30 amps, they protect against current overload in the wiring in my house. The fuses in my plugs are between 3 and 13 amps (as appropriate to the particular appliance) they protect against circuit overload in the appliance and associated wiring. This is not redundancy it is 2 different fuses/breakers that serve totally different purposes.

Re:US vs UK...

[Anonymous Coward]

Not all approved outlet and plug designs are identical. US "hospital" outlets and plugs (have a green dot on one of the outlet faces) are designed to be durable. They also provide better current and are often used in audiophile systems. Nothing falls out of hospital plug/outlet combo as the system has a spring to hold the plug in place. Stop buying 59 cent outlets. Go buy a $10 hospital outlet and plug.

Re:US vs UK...

[jo_ham]

I have never, ever, ever had a shutter jam on a plug socket I have used, and I have used more than my fair share.

Your "lights dimming" thing is also total rubbish - the lighting circuit is completely different to the mains circuit in UK houses, and is managed by a separate breaker, so the current draw on one (or a light bulb blowing on the other) won't affect the other circuit in the slightest.

When a light bulb pops in the UK, you'll likely trip out the RCD for that circuit (so all your upstairs lights go out) but your sockets are not affected. Similarly, if you plug in an appliance with an earth fault either its fuse will burn out in the plug (if you have the right fuse) or you'll trip the mains breaker, but your lights stay on.

The new US outlets with the mandatory earth pin are much better - but as many people here have said, can you be *really* sure that they are actually wired properly? One of the benefits of the UK system, as mature as it is, is that you know an installed socket is earthed, and whatever you plug into it, the plug will never fall out.

The non-grounded plugs are for doubly insulated devices, and only require neutral and live connections. These special plugs are moulded onto cords either directly attached to the appliance it was designed for, or terminate in a "figure 8" connector to connect up to a device with the appropriate power input. You cannot buy them without a flex to connect up to a cord with an earth wire - all replacement fitted plugs are the full earthed type, even if you don't wire the earth since the flex you have is lacking one (but you'd never use this on a non-double insulated device).

Re:US vs UK...

[Anonymous Coward]

They sell 2-prong to 3-prong adapters because you typically attach the ground to the cover screw via a small prong or wire. Since ground and neutral are tied together in the breaker box, you have the same safety of the a 3-wire system in a 2-wire system, minus the redundancy of an extra ground.

The problem is people don't hook up ground adapter.

No, the problem is that most places that have 2-prong outlets also have *no* ground at all to the outlet boxes. Meaning connecting that adapter's ground to the cover plate screw does no good whatsoever, as the cover plate screw itself is not grounded.

Re:US vs UK...

[operagost]

It's because actual Americans realize that this is only a problem with two-prong plugs in worn-out receptacles. If you don't replace worn out wiring and receptacles, you deserve what you get.

Re:US vs UK...

[DerekLyons]

I'd love to have 220V coming out of the wall sockets as half the world does; it's unlikely to be more dangerous than the 120 we have now, and would allow for products with twice the power of currently available one (think vacuums, table saws, etc).

But really, what the hell for? My Delta (hybrid) tablesaw does just for normal use on 110v*, as does my vacuum cleaner. I mean, like any red-blooded American, I'd love for my electrical penis to be bigger - but rationally I cannot come up with any other reason.
 
*My experience is that people having problems with their saws are usually using a misaligned cheap ass saw with a dull piece-of-shit blade. If they had 220V available, they'd still have the same problem.

Re:US vs UK...

[sbrown123]

You see this as some great attack on your national pride and just have to take revenge?

So pointing out bad journalism has something to do with national pride? No wonder Brits live in a nanny state. Probably too scared to question what they are told.

Re:US vs UK...

[Tillmann]

Sockets don't kill people, electricity does!

Re:US vs UK...

[1alpha7]

For larger voltages and amperages than 120v, 15 amp, a GFI breaker is used.

Re:US vs UK...

[Gogogoch]

> I actually doubt most British circuits are GFI protected
They all are. All houses have a central ground-fault trip system.

> one of the legs IS earthed
It's the other one that gets you.

> If they get misused and a fire starts, it's the owner's fault.
You could say the same about guns.

>Both are available, just not mandated. If you don't have kids, why do you need the safety shutters?
That's not very imaginative. Come on - you have no kids now, but are there scenarios between now and 2200AD where kids might be at risk - not to mention careless adults?

> Ohm's law, I think. Warm? BFD - so does British wiring, just not as much.
Heating in UK power cords is imperceptible. You just never notice it. Perhaps below perception level. In North America I was appalled to find vacuum and iron leads getting warm, and plugs getting hot.

>" and the lights change brightness when I switch such appliances on and off."
> That's the house wiring, not the system wiring.
It is the system design. At 110/120V you have double the current compared to 240V, and so double the voltage loss in wiring due to resistance (and 4x the heating due to Ohm's law as you say, since heating is prop. to I*I/R). So fluctuations are much more noticeable in 110V systems.

>The British took the Nanny state route. I'm not shedding any tears.
Not really, just good/better engineering standards (for once).

North American wiring standards talk about avoiding sharp bends in wires to reduce fire hazards. Probably due to high currents required of 110V systems.

I'd love to know the real reason, if there is one, but I've always assumed that the US went for 110V because:

1. Choice of voltage affects copper losses, combated by having more copper to carry current, so in a country with ample copper resources, why not have lower voltage and more copper?

2. Most US homes have timber construction more at risk from electrical shorting. So why not use a lower voltage to lower shorting risks? Whereas most UK homes are brick construction (used to be anyway) and a little more tolerant in this respect.

TFA is completely jingoistic, sure. It's great to read if you're a Brit but the style would get up your nose if you were from just about anywhere else, but there is some truth that the UK system is better engineered - not just for safety, but for other reasons. Perhaps it is over-engineered. UK plugs really are huge, after all. UK police are generally good too. Hmm... I'm having trouble thinking of things after that. Oh yes - pay-as-you-go minutes that don't expire - that's good.

Re:US vs UK...

[greyhueofdoubt]

So to say that the UK version is better because it has a fuse shows me a lack of understanding of practicality or safety.

I had a nice long response to this but a f$%^&ing network error ate it so here's the cliffnotes version:

My outlet and circuit breakers are rated at 20A. Most of my devices will fry above 1-5A (think wall warts and stuff). The fuse will fail gracefully while the breaker happily supplies current up to 20A.

Since I've had in-device fuses save my ass more than once without tripping a breaker, I'd say there is more to fuses than you say. The breaker doesn't know what's plugged into it.

-b

Re:US vs UK...

[operagost]

I'm not dead! I'm not! I'm getting better!

Re:US vs UK...

[XcepticZP]

Noting some guy further up. Higher voltage means less current running through the wires. This means there is less of a fire risk.

Re:US vs UK...

[Cal27]

Or to plug a 3-prong cord into a 2-prong outlet..

I believe most of those adapters have a metal contact that will touch the screw in the middle of the outlet, which is grounded,

UK outlets also usually have some kind of safety flap thing, that prevents you from sticking a fork in the outlet. Again, I'm sure this extra bit of plastic costs a bit more... But I think I'd be willing to pay for that added safety.

You can get those in the US too.

Re:US vs UK...

[geekoid]

I love it when someone used a logical fallacy to arrive at a provable incorrect conclusion~

Re:US vs UK...

[Anonymous Coward]

This California home built in 1964 still used 2-prong outlets in most rooms (3-prong for the kitchen, bathrooms, and outside).
Don't *have* to rewire the house either. Homes are sold as-is. GFI breakers could be installed in the panel rather than upgrading the wiring.

I'd rather require the use of conduit so I could rewire the house without tearing open the walls.

My 13Amp vacuum cleaner is powerful enough on 110V circuit. That is over two horsepower! As it is I almost need earplugs for that thing.

Since I don't use a table saw in the bedroom, I'm happy to run big equipment off of the 20 and 30Amp 220V outlets in the garage.

Re:US vs UK...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah agreed. Good thing Apple doesn't show the size of the plug in their Air adverts. Fucking plug has about twice the internal volume of the laptop. You can't fit that monster in any laptop bag without defacing something valuable.

I wouldn't mind having the monster socket for monster permanent appliances (stove, water heater, escalator, arc welder) but for anything you want to transport it's nice if the weight of the socket is a negligible fraction. Look at USB wall chargers. They are larger than most any chargeable device!

Smaller plugs please! Especially for modern day portable low-power devices.

Re:US vs UK...

[operagost]

Sounds like the progressives' platform for universal health care, the stimulus package... heck, everything! Just raise the taxes a little more!

Re:US vs UK...

[schnikies79]

The metal the screw threads into is typically linked to the neutral side of the wall-socket, as well as the gang-box it's installed in.

Re:US vs UK...

[zoney_ie]

I've never had a plug fall out, even with the weight of "wall warts" or even the 3 way blocks with wall warts attached.

One downside is that if you trip over a cable - although the plug is designed for the wire to pull out of the plug safely - this doesn't happen as the plug and socket are so robust. Instead you send some device flying off a countertop or something.

Also sometimes if you have something plugged in for some time, it can actually be quite hard to unplug.

Nevertheless, I'd choose this over flakey falling-out plugs anyday.

Re:US vs UK...

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, my home has yet to burn to the ground without all of the safety features that you just mentioned.

I believe that any device that has been tested by the UL is safe enough to plug-in without a ridiculous number of safety features on the pins/plugs/etc.

Vacuum cleaners draw 12A, so yeah... What do you expect?

Sorry, I just really don't see what the problem is. The systems are different, but they both work fine.

Re:US vs UK...

[Rising Ape]

Less pride, more "appreciation of good design and engineering".

On the other hand, I really hate our standard light fittings (bayonet). Edison screws are much nicer.

Re:US vs UK...

[Cal27]

I've never used a vacuum cleaner that sounded anything like a hot chord.

Re:US vs UK...

[iluvcapra]

I HAVE flown with a few UK plugs and adapters as a matter of fact. Considering every piece of gear has a relatively bulky switching power supply, it's really not the most annoying thing you have to carry, particularly since all the UK plugs are right-angle and though they take up wall space they don't generally have a thick wall profile, which ain't generally so of US union plugs.

OTOH, the integrated fuse in every UK plug is just about the height of obnoxiousness.

When reading the article I think the most striking one was Denmark's, mainly because it forms an almost perfect smiley face, a bit like the more "shocked" expression the US jack. Of course the problem with making a power jack looking "friendly" is that it might attract little children's fingers.

Re:US vs UK...

[that this is not und]

My late/mid 19th century house (depends on which part you're in) still has a lot of tube and post wiring, and there are no grounded outlets anywhere in the house. The only legal retrofit is to replace every two-prong outlet with a GFCI with the ground not attached, and that's what I've done. I'd love to pull new wiring all through the house, but we need a new roof first. And it's remarkable how well everything holds together. Our fuse boxes (there are three of them cascading down the wall from the 1920's one to the 1950's one) are mounted on the exterior of the house, out under the eaves of the back porch.

The water and electric service in this house are all retrofitted from earlier times. The electric pump and tank for the water source are down in the cellar.

Re:US vs UK...

[Anonymous Coward]

GFI plugs do not work well on inductive loads (motors, etc). That's probably the main reason they aren't everywhere, instead of cost.

Re:US vs UK...

[Neanderthal Ninny]

Sounds like something line that should be on the Transformers movie.

Re:US vs UK...

[mathx314]

And yet if you decide to use it then you probably have a British accent, which is enough for 90% of American girls.

Re:US vs UK...

[VisceralLogic]

And it will be more than enough current to kill a person (It only takes about 0.015 amps to kill someone, regardless of voltage).

I don't know whether your 0.015 A figure is accurate, but the amount of current available most definitely depends on the voltage, due to a person's innate resistance.

Re:US vs UK...

[that this is not und]

A one-hand shock like that keeps the current path localized to one extremity. The really dangerous shocks are from one hand to the other, because the current path then travels through your heart region.

Re:US vs UK...

[that this is not und]

Actually, a marketing opportunity in search of a government mandate.

There's money to be made in many ways, and if you can argue 'increased safety' as the motivator, all the better.

Re:US vs UK...

[damburger]

So if an adult doesn't replace the worn out receptacles (a problem which is amusingly alien to a UK reader, by the way) then their 4 year old child 'deserves' to be fatally electrocuted? Why don't you think before you bash your fists on the keyboard next time?

Re:US vs UK...

[NoMaster]

A breaker is a lot faster at disconnecting current than a fuse (it's designed to be fast), and it's resettable.

Really? The reaction / response time curves I've seen for general-purpose fuses & circuit breakers show that fuses are almost always faster than an equivalently-rated circuit breaker, particularly with high fault currents.

Yes, you can get fast-acting breakers. You can also get fast acting fuses, which again are generally faster than fast-acting breakers, except for very specific and expensive versions. It's worth noting that power electronics - and I'm talking things like 500~1000A rectifiers, power converters, UPSs, and SMPSs here - almost exclusively use fuses internally for protection, with breakers only on the input and output.

So to say that the UK version is better because it has a fuse shows me a lack of understanding of practicality or safety.

I don't know if he points this out in the article (10 pages? A sentence or 2 per page? C'mon!), but a fuse in the plug also protects the rest of the circuit against damage to the cord. Which bit of an appliance is most likely to get damaged and cause a risk of short circuit? Yeah, the cord. I'd say that shows quite a bit of understanding of practicality and safety, at least on the part of the original designer.

And note: I'm Australian, so I have no particular attachment to UK-style plugs.

Re:US vs UK...

[Anonymous Coward]

I have seen a convention that all commercial and industrial buildings have the ground pin up. Receptacles are also installed ground pin up in most newer residential buildings as well. 4 out of the last 5 houses that I have been to that were built within the last decade or so do this. All of the receptacles in my apartment complex are ground up. And I have never seen a wall switch connected receptacle whose configuration differed from other plugs. Maybe the receptacles that you saw were just installed at a later date than the other ones?

Re:US vs UK...

[HornWumpus]

The gene pool needs chlorine.

Re:US vs UK...

[that this is not und]

I'm sorry, but if you have an old house you'll have to rewire or buy lots of adapters.

The code allows you to simply replace all the two-prong outlets with GFCIs, and leave the GFCI's with the ground disconnected. It's the best thing you can do if you don't have the ground wire in the wall, and it is a vast improvement over just using those three-wire adapters. I've replaced just about every two prong outlet in our 19th century house with GFCIs already. One at a time at my leisure.

Re:US vs UK...

[The -e**(i*pi)]

Circuit Breaker
http://www.weidmuller.com/webfm_send/1

Fast Blow Fuse:
http://www.cooperbussmann.com/pdf/d2ab7442-15c0-4fb0-a097-345e95695061.pdf

Slow Blow Fuse:
http://www.littelfuse.com/data/en/Data_Sheets/325P_326P.pdf

Re:US vs UK...

[damburger]

The Internet needs fewer obese basement dwellers callously advocating eugenics because they can't get a date.

Re:US vs UK...

[bigbird]

The reason why 110V is safer is that V = IR. Given the resistance of the human body as a constant, then with half the voltage, you receive half the current through your body. It is the current that kills you rather than the voltage. Of course, if you dramatically lower your resistance by being dripping wet, it probably won't matter if you have 110V or 220V.

Re:US vs UK...

[HornWumpus]

It's not exactly a truck, just sort of.

Re:US vs UK...

[Anonymous Coward]

Do your research better. It is not voltage which kills - it is current. No matter what the voltage is, 0.015A will kill, be it at 1V or 1,000,000V.
220V is therefore safer than 110V, because to have the same power output the 220V would require half the current the 110V one requires.

Your statistics are completely wrong too-with a bit of googling, wikipedia says that the electrocution rate in the US is 2.1 per million per year.
I couldn't find statistics for the UK, but I found some fore Ireland - in Ireland, the rate is 0.6 per million.

Re:US vs UK...

[Anonymous Coward]

www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg231.pdf
From the health and safety executive department in the UK, the death rate from shocks is 30 per year (in a population of 61 million = 0.49 deaths per million.

From the wikipedia article on electrocution, the deaths per million is 2.1 per million in the US. Yeah, the US one is so much safer....

It is current which kills, not voltage. The higher the voltage, the less current required, meaning that higher voltage = safer.

Re:US vs UK...

[HornWumpus]

Both you ACs need to reread Ohms law and understand that people are not constant power loads.

Higher voltage == higher electrocution hazard == lower wiring heat hazard.

Re:US vs UK...

[ChrisMaple]

Apparently, it's a common feature in the UK to have a single high current line supplying most of the house. In the US, there would be several breakers and several wires for the same purpose.
      I like the UK scheme. It's more economical and more rugged. Protection is provided where it's needed, at the individual plug. The big disadvantage is that if you do manage to make a good solid short at one outlet, you trip the main breaker and the whole house goes dark.
      The UK uses 240 V, which also reduces wiring losses in the house This is a big deal in these days of conservation, and it's nice not to have the lights dim when you switch on a vacuum cleaner.

Re:US vs UK...

[jareth-0205]

Sounds like the UK ones are massively overengineered, inconvenient, and introduce extra points of failure unnecessarily.

Ah yes, of course, because having lethal and fire-igniting electricity points all around every wall in your house, it's not reasonable to take some safety steps to prevent catastrophic failure. No, not at all...

Re:US vs UK...

[Grishnakh]

It might be something that differs by region. I've seen the convention I referred to in various houses in Arizona, built in the 80s. As for the switch-connected receptacles, it makes sense. Otherwise, how do you tell which is the one that is switch-connected? Running around and trying them all is rather clumsy when you can just invert that one to make it obvious.

Re:US vs UK...

[Sehnsucht]

So, we're all in agreement then?

Re:US vs UK...

[ShooterNeo]

I've noticed the "warm wire" problem on lots of high wattage appliances. As I recall, this would happen on the shop vac, on an electric flour mill, and other high wattage appliances. (don't remember exactly which, I just recall I've had this happen lots of times in my life)

However, the added safety of only using 110 VAC rather than 220 is probably worth a little wasted energy in wire heating.

Re:US vs UK...

[metrix007]

They are *not* properly engineered. They are redundant, cumbersome, and altogether many design decisions are unnecessary. I say this as someone who has lived in the UK for a good many years.

Re:US vs UK...

[jrumney]

In Malaysia where the national standard specifies the british plug type, the biggest issue was that cheap Chinese imports sometimes didn't use it.

It's nothing to do with being cheap Chinese imports, any double insulated equipment in Malaysia seems to be sold with a Europlug rather than a UK plug with a plastic Earth pin.

Re:US vs UK...

[Anonymous Coward]

Strange, the only experience I've ever had with this falling out of the wall issue is either when I have a transformer suspended over some other piece of furniture applying significant weight to the plug or when using old outlets (not updated since 1940's/50's). I've never had any issues with the American 3-prong plugs nor their associated outlets for 2-prong plugs except in the aforementioned misuse case of dangling a transformer off the ground (hot transformer and thick carpet makes me nervous.

Re:US vs UK...

[gyrogeerloose]

There are quite a few U.S. houses built in the 50's with 2-prong outlets. Mine is one.

Yeah, mine was too. But oddly enough, there are ground wires run to each outlet anyway. These were used to ground the metal boxes in which the outlets themselves are installed. Turns out that this was commonly done even back as far as the 1950s. Pull a cover off one of your outlets and you might find the same thing. It makes it very easy to put the more modern 3-hole grounded outlets. Just remember to pull the fuse or switch off the circuit breaker before you start undoing things!

Re:US vs UK...

[gyrogeerloose]

Especially when you consider that you don't have to install a GFI in every outlet. One per circuit will do.

Re:US vs UK...

[Anonymous Coward]

Minor costs add up when weighed against exceedingly rare events - should we all have asteroid insurance? The comparison that strikes as far more apt than for a serial killer is driving - if all roads had (respected) speed limits of 25 mph or less, fatal traffic accidents would be far rarer, but such is not worth the inconvenience of taking 2-3 times as long for long drives or ~50% more time for short drives. Similarly, is lugging a bulkier/heavier laptop adapter around every day worth it for the minute chance that I might shock myself badly?

Re:US vs UK...

[geekoid]

How many children are fatally electrocuted from wall outlets?

I can NOT believe someone pulled out the 'think of the children' fallacy on slashdot

Re:US vs UK...

[jonwil]

The problem is not the 2" GI-Joe guns, its comming up with an exemption that allows those guns without allowing other guns that shouldn't be allowed.
If you say that toy guns are allowed, people will start bringing full-size toy guns through (there was a news story here a while back where some kid was playing with a full-sized toy gun, someone saw it, thought it was real and called in the SWAT team.

Re:US vs UK...

[geekoid]

The 110v mambo is over pretty quick*, then you laugh and get some water while the adrenalin is purged from your body.

Usually so fast people don't realize the were zapped until a moment after it's done.

Re:US vs UK...

[R2.0]

Oh, I won't deny that the UK system is better engineered, but it is so not because of some inherent superiority in British engineers but the fact that Britain effectively had to rebuild their electrical system after the war. 1940's engineering vs. late 19th century. Think Ford Anglia versus a Duryea Motor Wagon.

And I certainly wasn't offended by the tone of the article - I figured that someone whose tongue is jammed that firmly in his cheek must have some kind of congenital defect.

Re:US vs UK...

[jrumney]

The higher the voltage, the less current required, meaning that higher voltage = safer.

I didn't realise that human beings maintain a constant power drain regardless of the voltage input. I'd have expected them to more closely resemble resistive loads, where current is proportional to voltage.

Re:US vs UK...

[nosferatu1001]

Entire wall sockets are less than £2 in the UK.
http://nextday.diy.com/app/jsp/product/productPage.jsp?productId=81793

Re:US vs UK...

[jabuzz]

Indeed we use something called ring circuits basically out the consumer unit/fuse box around the house and back in, using 2.5mm cable and the circuit protected by a 32A breaker. They where a product of the price and scarcity of copper after the second world war.

Given the issues with copper availability long term, still a good idea.

The 240V (though in my house it is a very steady 230V) is also from an environmental perspective a good idea too.

Re:US vs UK...

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, maybe because in practice that virtually never happens? Have you ever even seen a US plug, let alone used one?

Re:US vs UK...

[jabuzz]

At which point a fuse in the appliance is not going to provide any protection for the cable supplying the appliance.

The primary purpose of the fuse in the plug is to prevent overheating of the appliances cable should a fault develop in the cable that does not draw enough current to trip the main breaker for the circuit but is more than the cable can handle.

Re:US vs UK...

[RazorSharp]

The ground pin on American outlets is an EXTRA ground. There is a ground in the fuse box of the house as well. Granted, the third prong may increase safety, but not by much. British outlets just seem like overkill to me. Anyway, those little two prong adapters are safe and necessary, as there are a lot of old houses which lack three prong outlets.

Re:US vs UK...

[BasilBrush]

What's redundant? What is unnecessary?

Re:US vs UK...

[herojig]

I'm an American living in India. The standard here is bare wires into any hole in the wall. I've been zapped with unregulated 220 more times then I care to remember. But they say it's good for you...like shock therapy for mental patients. Perhaps America should switch to 220 and the Indian standard.

Re:US vs UK...

[kaoshin]

When I was a kid, my brother and I took the lightbulb out of a nightlight and used to see who could hold their finger in the longest. I have licked an electrical fence, the kind that kept dogs in a yard that was like a little wire around the top of the fence, I just chomped down on it hah. In high school I did my science project on circuits by running electrical current through my braces and blowing out a bunch of lights. In science class the following year I stuck my key in an electrical socket which went boom and smoke went everywhere and a girl behind me got completely showered with sparks and started screaming. I've had at least one or two stunguns broken on me because people held down the button too long. I've gotten my hand stuck inside a computer chassis before while being zapped from loose leads off of a molex and then I've probably been jolted a zillion times with various connectors and exposed wire. Pain don't hurt none.

Re:US vs UK...

[Anonymous Coward]

You are laboring under the misconception that the TSA somehow reflects the attitudes of normal Americans.

We use the TSA much in the way England used to use Australia -- it's an exciting destination for our felons and retards.

Re:US vs UK...

[tuxicle]

Trouble with breakers is that they are mechanical devices with moving parts. It's possible that a breaker can get stuck closed. A fuse, however, is just a piece of nichrome that will melt if the current exceeds the rating, no matter what. So if you have a major fault, and the breaker gets stuck, the fuse will melt. I've seen this happen on a 240V circuit for an unoccupied apartment - resulted in a fire. My best guess is there was a sustained high current (not enough to trip the breaker) that heated up the internal solenoid to the point where the plastic melted and held the breaker closed. By the way, the apartment owner had replaced the safety fuse with a piece of ordinary wire.

Re:US vs UK...

[piemcfly]

3 different plug types that don't fit in every type?

What 'the Netherlands' are you living in? In fact, what Europe have you been living in? I understand British people have a hard time understanding Europe, what with their Europhobia and gereral 'island' mindset... but really? Mistaking standardized two-prong plugs for something else?

I've never encountered any other plug than the standardized "Schuko" "Type F" plugs in the Netherlands. You know, the type with two prongs (and sometimes a seperate grounding), which means you can use grounded or ungrounded plugs ons both grounded and ungrounded outlets.... you know,the types that accept any europlug?

Perhaps you've been using 80s-era belgian and french plugs here? Or you've been buying imported electronics?

Re:US vs UK...

[Anonymous Coward]

as an australian I was completely blown away to find out that there are places that dont have switched powerpoints. how very primitive

Re:US vs UK...

[toddestan]

Most US plus for some reason think it is a great idea to stick far further out from the wall than even the huge British plug due to plugging in perpendicular.

Well, one thing the US plug has going for it here is that a plug laying on the floor doesn't tend to have the (nearly unbendable) prongs sticking straight up. Something you might appreciate in when you have to use the bathroom in the middle of the night.

Re:US vs UK...

[azipsun]

If it is a two wire socket, the screw probably won't be grounded either since the box itself probably doesn't have a ground wire coming to it. At least that's the case in my old house. I had two wire sockets virtually everywhere and worse the outlets were old enough that they weren't holding a plug properly. Short of tearing open the walls and running new wires, the only option was to replace them with GFI plugs.

Re:US vs UK...

[jeff4747]

Imagine a world where you have overload protection in your device (e.g. laptop), in the power cord plug, in the circuit breaker panel; the breaker panel also provides arc and ground fault protection.

Yes, you'd have so many circuit breakers and fuses, all of which have a chance to 'go bad' and disable your perfectly safe system.

The nice thing about single points of failure is that you can only fail at a single point. And with a little bit of design work, it fails safe.

With your fetish for massive numbers of fuses and circuit breakers, you're gonna have a lot more dark electrical devices, and no real boost in safety.

Re:US vs UK...

[jeff4747]

The falling slightly out, just far enough that the connection is still (poorly) made and you get sparks flying when you turn the device on problem is. How anyone could defend this design is beyond me.

That's because you and TFA are talking about the old, ungrounded 2-prong outlets that have not been allowed by the building code for decades. Shall we now talk about how terrible UK knob-and-tube wiring is compared to US BX wiring? It would be equally foolish.

Re:US vs UK...

[Anonymous Coward]

"US plugs are safer because they only carry 110v. That, in and of itself, makes US wiring safer. 220v is much more deadly than 110v"

It makes no difference, both voltages are high enough to kill.

"I have grabbed live wires at a plug a few times in my life, and it just jolts your arm a little bit."

You can do the same thing with 220-240v with no issues in the same circumstances as 110v.
ie: keep one hand behind your back, and prevent even an accidental touch from creating a circuit across your chest. And make sure you touch things such that contracting muscles will pull you away from the current.

I know of several people that have had a hand zapped by 240v, and you'll find a lot of tv repairman that have been zapped by far worse.

It's the current that kills, the voltage just needs to be high enough to overcome the resistance of your skin, and even 110v is more than enough for this.

"Bottom line, I am seriously not worried one bit about grabbing live outlet lines. It hurts a little, so I don't do it for fun, but I'm really not worried about dying or anything."

You are ignorant or stupid I'm not sure which. It is dangerous, the fact that you have not yet been killed doesn't mean you won't be.

Re:US vs UK...

[jeff4747]

I also notice that no appliance I own in the USA uses insulation on the live pins of the plug to prevent accidental shocks when the plug is slightly out of the socket

That's 'cause we put the insulation in the plug. The contacts in (modern) US plugs are set deep enough so that they do not make contact with the plug when the plug is slightly out of the socket.

none of the sockets contain safety shutters

Safety shutters are simply another point of failure that provides virtually no protection to the vast majority of users. Instead, we install devices such as safety shutters when there are small children in the house who need the protection, and don't bother when them when they serve no use.

110V cords to high wattage appliances such as vacuum cleaners get warm and the lights change brightness when I switch such appliances on and off.

Unfortunately, several vacuum manufacturers are going overboard with their devices for marketing purposes. The other day I ran across a 15A vacuum cleaner in a store. That would consume ALL the power for a typical household circuit, yet not do a significantly better job of cleaning the floor.

That being said, 220V standard would be better, but we're stuck with what we have since we went first.

Re:US vs UK...

[Anonymous Coward]

Dam your bringing back the memories....

"Switch, switch disconnector, isolator, on load, off load, functional, maintenance" arrg

The switches on UK power outlets are designed to operate on load, and increasingly disconnect both (phase + neutral) poles. I have known a fair few switches fail but it's allways because they get full of dust and either don't operate or some tiny grain of sand prevents the contacts from fully closing and they slowly arc themselves to death.

Re:US vs UK...

[jeff4747]

There are quite a few U.S. houses built in the 50's with 2-prong outlets

The parent was talking about houses built in the last 50 years. IIRC, 3-prong outlets became the standard around 1960, which is 50 years ago. (well, 49 and a smidge)

Re:US vs UK...

[jeff4747]

Although this could descend into types of political governance, it may be argued that the minimum level of electrical safety could be raised in the USA such as mandatory GFI on all outlets on new home builds.

You're about 30 years too late. GFI has been required on all new construction and all remodels in the US for a long, long time.

Re:US vs UK...

[Anonymous Coward]

Have never seen it happen in 31 years of living here, nice solid plugging action stops it.

Re:US vs UK...

[Anonymous Coward]

A lot of plugs on strings of Christmas lights these days are fused, and have been for years.

Re:US vs UK...

[sjames]

That's a good point now that you mention it. I guess the adapters are just a placebo then.

Re:US vs UK...

[registrar]

Kids. Just because you survived it doesn't make it less than extremely dangerous. Most car accidents don't kill either. There are more ways to die from electricity than to get spontaneously combusted... if you'd had the wrong heart condition, or just been unlucky. You don't need anything like the voltage or current available from a domestic outlet to die. I had a really nasty shock off 24 V once... you just can't respect electricity enough.

Re:US vs UK...

[metrix007]

The fuse. The size. The earthpin.

Not to mention having the pins flex would actually be a safety *advantage*.

Re:US vs UK...

[WarwickRyan]

No, not at all europhobic. Quite the opposite, infact. I've a pretty poor view of my fatherland and the general attitude of the inhabitants.

For the record I live slap bang in the middle of the country.

The plugs I've got:

1. Standard two pronged thin. CEE 7/16 plug with similary shaped sockets. Ever light I own has this plug.
2. Round two pronged with earth. Type F. All my kitchen stuff uses this.
3. Round two pronged without earth. Same shape as Type F but without the gaps (so it doesnt fit a type-f socket). Fairly common in electronics.

1 fits in all sockets.
2 fits in big round earthed sockets, and most (but NOT all) big round unearthed sockets (those with a molding which assume a recess).
3 fits in big rounded unearthed sockets only.

I've all three sort in house. I bought new plugs from either Gamma or Media Markt for all my UK electronic kit (the only 'imports' I've got), mixture of all the types (wasn't aware that 2/3 were different at the time.).

When we rewired the house I made sure to buy sockets which fit all of the plug types; Gamma at least has several molded in such a way that some plugs don't fit.

Re:US vs UK...

[bar-agent]

It only takes 10 milli-amps to stop your heart. Those outlets can carry 20 amps or more.

Just about everyone in the US has touched live household electricity at one time or another. We haven't died. So while it may only take 10 mA to stop your heart, there is clearly more to the story.

Re:US vs UK...

[Mjlner]

Funny how you yanks and limeys always start arguing amongst each other (eventually and inevitably leading to the WWII-pissing contest), while the German engineers have silently owned both your asses/arses with their Schuko....

(Incidentally, the Germans had already lost the war to the Russians, when you yanks chose to bail out the limeys, who were holding out just fine on their own.)

Re:US vs UK...

[Traf-O-Data-Hater]

I thought the exact same thing too. I thought switches on wall sockets were used everywhere, and never gave it a second thought.

Re:US vs UK...

[confused one]

Nope. I had to replace all the outlets when we moved in (with new 2-prong outlets). House is done in 2 conductor, no grounds.

Re:US vs UK...

[confused one]

While it's true he said that, he also said he had not seen a post WWII house with 2-prong outlets. They were used up through the early '60's here until the building code forced the change. fwiw, my city tends to be one rev behind on the NEC code.

Re:US vs UK...

[BasilBrush]

The fuse isn't redundant. It fuses at say 3 Amps, whilst the circuit breaker for the ring main will be 30 or 32 Amps.
The earth pin isn't redundant. It provides an essential safety feature for products with exposed metal parts.
Flexing pins are not an advantage. It's the sign of poor engineering.

Size is on the large size. But fairly minimal at the time of design for it's features. If you look inside a plug, you can see that it's pretty tight in there. Though because it's sensibly designed with the cable coming out at 90 degrees to the pins, it uses less space from the wall than most other designs.

So, you have nothing.

Re:US vs UK...

[Anonymous Coward]

Eh? Voltage by itself does not kill. If you think it does, go play with a Van de Graaff generator.

Amps is what kills, and you only need 60mA on an AC circuit to start to get a body count.

(This is, of course a simplistic overview. The real killer is energy; it's also why deliberators are calibrated to Joules)

Re:US vs UK...

[TheRaven64]

Really? I've only spent a few months in the USA, but I've never seen the other kind. I bought a splitter socket in the US in 2006 so the girl I was dating at the time could have her coffee grinder and toaster plugged in at the same time and it had two pins per socket as did the appliances it was connected to.

Let's talk about what's actually deployed, not what is theoretically possible.

Re:US vs UK...

[ifwm]

God, your jealousy is just pathetic.

It must be very difficult for you having such an inferiority complex that you actually think that way.

How sad for you.

Re:US vs UK...

[ifwm]

So if an adult doesn't replace the worn out receptacles (a problem which is amusingly alien to a UK reader, by the way) then their 4 year old child 'deserves' to be fatally electrocuted? Why don't you think before you bash your fists on the keyboard next time?

Really? You decided "think of the children" was the best way to demonstrate your point?

Because you've only really demonstrated that your argument sucks and you're not very bright.

God, you really ARE suffering from a massive inferiority complex.

Re:US vs UK...

[dangitman]

From the stats I can find, UK deaths by electrical outlets are .486 per 100,000 and US rates are .015 per 100,000, more than an order of magnitude safer, even without massive numbers of safety features.

Does that include death by fires stared by electrical faults? I don't know the statistics, but anecdotally, household fires are alarmingly more common in the US than anywhere else I've lived.

Re:US vs UK...

[ifwm]

The Internet needs fewer obese basement dwellers making up idiotically fallacious arguments about "electrocuted children" because they suffer from massive inferiority complexes

FYP.

No one would miss you if you introduced yourself to one of those "fatal to children" sockets either, in fact we'd enjoy it thoroughly.

Re:US vs UK...

[IgePanda]

What is it with the Americans on here? The British people are not proud of their plugs, the British people take plugs for granted. It's not like there was a national vote on what plugs to use or anything.

To warp this into a issue of national pride is just wrong.

The person who wrote TFA was spouting nothing more than British pride, nothing more really. I'm an American and I can concede the UK plugs are very robust and exactly the sort of thing I'd want a big arse appliance to use. TVs, ovens, washers, anything with a decent current draw that doesn't move. However to be fair they are huge, so huge that europlugs are popular in bathrooms because the damn plug is bigger than an electric razor.

To be fair, it is something to be proud of. While I can be critical of it in today's world of portable gear, the the vacuum tube era it was da-bomb.

If I owned a home in the UK, I'd be totally hip to using a hybrid system of europlugs and UK sockets. If it doesn't move, UK plug. If it does move, europlug.

Re:US vs UK...

[gouldina]

Apparently, it's a common feature in the UK to have a single high current line supplying most of the house. In the US, there would be several breakers and several wires for the same purpose. I like the UK scheme. It's more economical and more rugged. Protection is provided where it's needed, at the individual plug. The big disadvantage is that if you do manage to make a good solid short at one outlet, you trip the main breaker and the whole house goes dark. The UK uses 240 V, which also reduces wiring losses in the house This is a big deal in these days of conservation, and it's nice not to have the lights dim when you switch on a vacuum cleaner.

I don't know why people seem to think UK houses don't have lots of circuit breakers. They almost always do unless some ancient granny has lived in their ancient house their whole lives and not had the wiring changed ever.

Re:US vs UK...

[Afty0r]

Also, I have NEVER had a plug "fall out".

I am from the UK, and have visited the US twice... the sockets in both my Memphis and NY hotels on one trip had trouble keeping the plug in - the connection was so loose, and the weight of the cable would eventually pull the plug out of the socket.

In Florida we had a similar problem with the sockets in our villa, where any slight movement of an appliance generating motion on the cord would eventually lead to the plug coming loose in the socket.

Perhaps the scariest thing in all of this is that the plugs, once loose, can sit in a "half in-half out" position, with nice sparks flying around.

Re:US vs UK...

[IgePanda]

If my pins get bent, I just bend them back. This happens so infrequently, it's amazing that someone even mentioned it. Also, I have NEVER had a plug "fall out". Seriously? Fall out? If someone kicks it, I would RATHER it come out of the wall so they don't go flying head over heels and really injure themselves. I have lived in the US for almost 40 years now, and I can count on one hand the times a plug was kicked out or bent.

Ugh... I've had MANY plugs fall out. It happens all the time. This is totally a drawback to the US outlet. US prongs have holes in them, where the outlet itself has a retaining clip. These clips tend to fail. More over, when you bend the blades and unbend them they are less likely to make contact with the retaining clips, or are more likely to cause excessive wear to them.

This is a problem with heavier plugs non-grounded plugs or wall warts. Grounded plugs are better, but if you observe any outlet that used a vacuum you might note the likelihood of intermittent contact even with a grounded plug.

A good temporary resolution is to remove the wall plate and screw one of those wall wart multi-outlets.

Re:US vs UK...

[fuzzywig]

Yeah, but we just say that so the yanks don't get too jealous of our superior plug technology. ;)

Re:US vs UK...

[Brit_in_the_USA]

I checked some US electrical codes, have you? I get back to my original point GFI is NOT mandated on EVERY outlet. As a result every house in the USA I have been in has a majority of sockets without GFI and based home inspection (including 2 homes less than 5 years old).

Re:US vs UK...

[Brit_in_the_USA]

Yes I am aware how the GFI outlets casacde. However the protection does not reach to other circuits from the fuse box/pannel.

Re:US vs UK...

[slim]

Most British houses would have a circuit each for upstairs lighting, downstairs lighting, sockets, maybe more.

Since the 1970s at least, each of these would have their own fuse - to replace you would isolate the supply, undo some screws, and replace a piece of fuse wire (not even in a glass cartridge).

Almost everywhere nowadays has an RCD for each circuit. Mine trips every time a halogen light blows. Which is frequent.

Re:US vs UK...

[slim]

Nuts, isn't it? Roundabouts are so obviously the right solution to the problem. And when you think about it, the rules are no different than if it was an ordinary road: give way to traffic that's already on the road/roundabout you're joining.

I've been on a very few US roundabouts (or "rotaries"). One of them, noticably, neglected to have a marking to show you where to stop when giving way. D'oh!

Re:US vs UK...

[Ephemeriis]

I believe most of those adapters have a metal contact that can touch the screw in the middle of the outlet, which might be grounded

There you go.

Re:US vs UK...

[that IT girl]

Okay, I will remember that. I definitely need to learn more about the difference between the two. Despite my love for and knowledge of electronics, the electricity itself may as well be magic as far as I'm aware. Wikipedia, here I come :)

Re:US vs UK...

[DarkVader]

That's $3.11 for a single outlet, whereas the US standard double outlet, which takes up much less space, is available for $0.45, or about £0.27.

It might not seem that bad for a single one, but when you're wiring an entire house, it adds up. And it's really going to add up when you have to wire an apartment complex, or as I believe they call it, a block of flats.

And those ring mains are just freakish. I don't think anybody else in the world does that craziness.

Re:US vs UK...

[The Second Horseman]

And even if you do, unless you check, it's possible the ground isn't good anyway. That's a common problem in older rental properties. Heck, I've seen ungrounded 3-prong outlets.

Re:US vs UK...

[DarkVader]

In the US and in the UK, the total number of fatal electrical accidents annually is so low as to be background noise. I suspect that we've already spent far beyond the point of diminishing returns on electrical safety in both countries, but the UK is spending far more on those ridiculously expensive outlets and plugs.

Not to mention the UK plugs are more hazardous. Not electrically, they're fine there, but put one on the floor, it will tend to fall prongs up, and someone will end up with nasty puncture wounds on a foot.

Re:US vs UK...

[Sandbags]

you still have a breaker down in the main box. The fuse is additional to it, therefore superior. Also, breakers (and surge protectors) throw fast, but only with significant overvoltage, usally in the thousands of joules. A fuse will blow in situations where overvoltage is minimal, say 140v, for an extended period of several seconds. I also understand the difference between GFCI, fuse, and breaker fully. Having ALL THREE is superior to having 1 or 2. THAT was the point.

This fuse in wall operates very much like the fuses in your electronics, except they don't require voiding warranties to open cases to replace them.

Re:US vs UK...

[damburger]

Since when is 'think of the children' an actually fallacy? In what way does having any consideration for child safety (in the context of 230v electrical outlets handily located at toddler height) automatically negate your argument? Maybe its because I'm growing up and starting a family is in my near future, that I sound so ridiculous to 18 year old slashdot trolls.

Re:US vs UK...

[Anonymous Coward]

Most Christmas lights I have seen include fuses in the plug. In the US.

Re:US vs UK...

[squiggleslash]

I've been shocked multiple times at 240V, and the worst I've ever felt was a bubbling sensation up my arm. It's not the voltage that generally determines pain or death. The major safety issue affected with higher voltages are the higher risks of arcing. Likewise lower voltages require much higher currents which are more likely to overload wires. Those are the tradeoffs, not "If I get shocked, one will kill me and the other will not."

Re:US vs UK...

[makomk]

Shall we now talk about how terrible UK knob-and-tube wiring is compared to US BX wiring?

As far as I know, knob-and-tube wiring never really caught on here in the UK. The oldest wiring commonly encountered here uses lead-sheafed cabling.

Re:US vs UK...

[makomk]

The purpose of the third ground prong is to provide a path to ground for the appliance's casing. Interestingly enough, most appliances are built reasonably carefully so that their case won't become electrified.

I thought so too. Then I heard about the all-American five radio receivers that were apparently common in the US. The early ones reduced costs by using the chassis as the neutral connection - and since the plugs weren't polarised, you had a 50-50 chance of plugging them in such that the entire metal chassis was live. US consumer safety history is pretty astonishing, especially compared to sensible countries like the UK.

Re:US vs UK...

[Anonymous Coward]

Interestingly, most houses in the UK also have circuit breakers in the main consumer unit in addition to the fuse in the plug. Belt and braces....

Re:US vs UK...

[Anonymous Coward]

Congrats, you've felt 110v house current. It's not quite what it's cracked up to be, really.

I'm guessing that most of the danger is when you're making good solid contact with a tool that goes hot (especially, say, if your hands are sweaty, or you're standing in water), and particularly if the current goes through your torso. Zapping a dry finger on an inadvertent, slight contact isn't really that big a deal.

I used a scoreboard controller (the kind that schools use for their gymnasiums) that had a leaky ground. If you touched any of the metal switches on the controller and simultaneously touched a grounded object (say the metal switchplate on the wall), you got a nice 110v tingle. Pretty much fun to harass the person operating the control board... they couldn't run it without touching the controls, and if you touched them while grounded, you both got the shock. Of course you didn't have to mind getting shocked yourself, but what red-blooded geek does? I've built and tested many a shocker from 9v batteries, switches, and radio transformers.

Re:US vs UK...

[DCBoland]

Bottom line, I am seriously not worried one bit about grabbing live outlet lines. It hurts a little, so I don't do it for fun, but I'm really not worried about dying or anything.

Grabbing live outlet lines is dangerous and whether you have 110v or 230v actually makes little difference.

What matters is the current that goes through you, normally your body has a huge resistance and so not much current passes through you. However this varies hugely, moist hands will have orders of magnitude less resistance than dry ones and you'll easily get fatal currents from as low as 60 volts in such a situation.

Basically...stop touching those live wires!

Re:US vs UK...

[ibmjones]

Finally, a salacious snark. Took you guys long enough.

Re:US vs UK...

[Cederic]

I have surge protectors on my computers.
I have a fuse in each plug.
I have circuit breakers on each circuit (one lights, one downstairs circuit, one upstairs circuit, one kitchen/heating circuit).
I have a tripswitch on the feed in from the outside world.

Maybe you think that's overkill, but it works pretty well for me. Other than the surge protectors (and possibly number of circuits) that's pretty standard for UK houses.

Re:US vs UK...

[moosesocks]

They also completely failed to mention sheer size.

British mains plugs are fucking enormous. That might be fine for AC blowers and electric kettles, which are big anyway and draw a fair bit of current; but it is annoying and ridiculous for the ever growing crop of little tiny switchmode adapters that power the gizmos and gadgets of modern life.

Actually, it's quite nice, because AC/DC "bricks" fit nicely in the space of a normal outlet without blocking adjacent sockets.

Re:US vs UK...

[Anonymous Coward]

lots of US plugs have fuses in them- "Christmas" lights, for example, as well as many extension cords and appliance cords. But it didn't require an Act of Congress

Re:US vs UK...

[Anonymous Coward]

Re "no US plug has a fuse in it". Sorry, that's BS. Christmas lights and similar contraptions that need protection for flimsy wiring do have fuses built into standard non-earthed polarized US plugs.

Re:US vs UK...

[Anonymous Coward]

But the sockets in the UK are much more durable and can also take many appliances being plugged into the same socket without any overload. All in all the costs for a UK socket aren't really much more than in the US, they just seem that way if you don't consider how they get used.

Re:US vs UK...

[Anonymous Coward]

Firstly, kids are more likely to be the ones harmed due to crappy outlets. They're small, the outlets are at just the right height for them to fiddle with and they don't know about the dangers of electricity.
Secondly, do you just have no real comeback to the poster you were replying to? Dismissing an argument like that is what stupid people do.

Re:US vs UK...

[ifwm]

"Firstly"

I stopped reading there, as it was all that's required to prove you're too stupid to have a valid opinion.

Re:US vs UK...

[xtracto]

Britons have a fetish for big clunky plugs; just look at electricity plug and SCART!

Re:US vs UK...

[jandrese]

I think the switch is there for people who are paranoid about accidentally touching the prongs when plugging or unplugging something.

Re:US vs UK...

[Weezul]

Britain's plugs were designed around exceedingly bad home wiring decisions, based upon coper limitation. U.S. homes were wired correctly from the beginning.

You are obviously correct that Americans haven't added obvious safety features over time, blame our WallMart mentality. I also feel like the British plugs have really gone overboard on safety features, blame your nanny state mentality.

I think the only true point made by the article is that Edison was a self aggrandizing twit, and 220V has major advantages over 110V. The British plus is still by far the worst plug in existence for the excessive size alone.

I lived in England for several years, but bought all my equipment in France to have europlugs, and I used French power strips in both my home and office. Britian's electrical system just isn't livable any other way.

Otoh, I guess a British woman has more fat relative to a French woman than a British plug has relative to a French plug. :P

Depends on your criteria

[Locke2005]

The British electrical plug is the safest, but also the most expensive.

Re:Depends on your criteria

[Ethanol-fueled]

No, this one is the safest because the plugs screw in for a secure fit. Why it isn't already used in wall sockets is anybody's guess.

Re:Depends on your criteria

[Profane MuthaFucka]

True about the criterium thing. I think the American plugs have better "rectum feel."

Re:Depends on your criteria

[thetoadwarrior]

God forbid safety comes before savings.

Re:Depends on your criteria

[RiotingPacifist]

There is no earth.

Re:Depends on your criteria

[jandrese]

Because people don't want to twist up their power cords?

Re:Depends on your criteria

[I_am_Rambi]

The best plug is a Speakon connector. You twist to make the connection, it locks in place. If modified (for a ground pin) you could easily have the ground connect first in any plug. With the design, its hard to have any key or item go into the either plug. Now only if they could be used for power instead of just for audio/video.

Re:Depends on your criteria

[whoever57]

The British electrical plug is the safest,

Safety of the plug is less important if you are only dealing with 110V. And as for the built-in fuse: how many plugs are actually fitted with a fuse that is appropriately rated for the device it connects?

The British plug has undergone a change some time back which does make it a lot more safe: encasing the upper ends of the live and neutral pins in plastic, so that one can't touch the metal of the live pin when inserting or removing the plug while it is actually live.

What I hate are those blanking plates that are sold as a child safety device. Since the plate is held in place using a plastic earth pin, it actually opens the shutters that normally prevent access to the live socket. I think that people who buy these plates don't understand the safety features built into a UK 13A socket.

Re:Depends on your criteria

[schnikies79]

My great-grandmother used to tell when she was small they had porcelain light-sockets installed on the walls as power outlets. This was a professional installation by the power company/electricians. You would use those screw-socket to 2 prong adapters to get a regular outlet.

This would be about 1915 in Kansas.

Re:Depends on your criteria

[IndustrialComplex]

There is no earth.

Great. Now what am I going to do with all these turtles?

Re:Depends on your criteria

[nmb3000]

God forbid safety comes before savings.

Why should safety vs savings be immune to a normal cost/benefit analysis?

How many people are significantly (or even mildly) injured due to the design of the standard US plug? How many fewer are injured with the UK plug? Now, how much does it cost a society (taking everything into account, from the cost a table lamp to the cost of a meal at a restaurant which uses appliances with these plugs) to mandate the use the UK plug over the US plug?

Safety over savings is a laudable goal, but taking it too far or removing personal responsibility (for example, by a totalitarian nanny state) can be just as detrimental as having no safety at all.

Re:Depends on your criteria

[Anonymous Coward]

Not meaning to be argumentative, but when the lightbulb breaks off and the connector gets stuck in the socket, this type of socket is dangerous.

Re:Depends on your criteria

[brackishboy]

As a kid I had a small-gauge slot car set that ran off a double-insulated adaptor with a plastic dummy ground pin that only served to open the shutters on the live and neutral sockets. Then it snapped off.

I can still remember the noise my mother made when she walked in on eight-year-old me prising a matchstick into a wall-socket trying to plug it in :)

Re:Depends on your criteria

[thetoadwarrior]

If you were talking about a cost difference of $100 or maybe even $10, I'd understand it but to put savings over safety for pennies or even a couple dollars is just stupid.

http://www.usfa.dhs.gov/citizens/all_citizens/home_fire_prev/electrical.shtm

According to that electrical problems cause 67,800 fires, 485 deaths, and $868 million in property losses.

As it points out most of the problems come from wiring, not the actual devices. Perhaps shorts wouldn't be as much of a problem if cords had things, like fuses in them.

I know a lot of people are talking shit and saying they don't know anyone that has died from an electrical death which is a flawed argument and yes I do see the official stats do say that actually not too many people die.

However there is still a shit load of damage and quite frankly I do have things I don't want to lose in a fire. I also don't want my insurance to sky rocket so yeah to be quite honest, I think paying out a couple dollars more would be worth it whether or not I'm likely to die from a cheaper plug.

Re:Depends on your criteria

[MBGMorden]

Maybe it's just me, but at a certain point I WANT the plug to come out of the socket. I know I can't be the only person in the world who's tripped over a cord sometime over another, and the plug just yanking out of the socket is a lot better than the actual wire popping or the outlet coming out of the wall. It's the real-world equivalent of a fuse - when something is obviously wrong make the system break at the safest and most convenient point rather than somewhere random.

Re:Depends on your criteria

[Anonymous Coward]

Now only if they could be used for power instead of just for audio/video.

May I introduce to you:

PowerCon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerCon

Re:Depends on your criteria

[nmb3000]

If you were talking about a cost difference of $100 or maybe even $10, I'd understand it

It adds up fast. You also have to include the cost of running the portion of the government assigned to design, test and enforce all these laws being put into place to "protect" the people.

According to that electrical problems cause 67,800 fires, 485 deaths, and $868 million in property losses.

Did you read that page or just pull numbers out of it?

Most electrical fires result from problems with "fixed wiring" such as faulty electrical outlets and old wiring. Problems with cords and plugs, such as extension and appliance cords, also cause many home electrical fires.

In urban areas, faulty wiring accounts for 33% of residential electrical fires.

Many avoidable electrical fires can be traced to misuse of electric cords, such as overloading circuits, poor maintenance and running the cords under rugs or in high traffic areas.

Nothing on that page indicates that shock or property damage has anything to do with touching the exposed wiring of a plug as it is inserted or removed from the wall. Nobody here is saying that nobody ever gets electrocuted or that electrical fires don't happen -- they are saying that very, very few incidents are due to the shape or design of the US plug.

Re:Depends on your criteria

[Anonymous Coward]

"My great-grandmother used to tell when she was small they had porcelain light-sockets installed on the walls as power outlets. This was a professional installation by the power company/electricians. You would use those screw-socket to 2 prong adapters to get a regular outlet.

This would be about 1915 in Kansas."

I live in Nebraska, and my house, built in 1917, STILL has those type of outlets in certain locations. I have replaced some of them for practical use, but several are still there, in service, to preserve the originality of the house. They have brass covers over them, with little flip-open doors to expose the socket. Yes, you can screw a regular light bulb into them, and it will light up.

Re:Depends on your criteria

[thetoadwarrior]

The genius of the British plug isn't just about making it so it doesn't fall out.

It does in fact imply that some problems are down to the design of the US plug. Some aren't even grounded let alone have a fuse in them.

I agree that the risk of being shocked from a plug being half out are nearly nil but at the same time I have knocked a fair few plugs out. What often happens if the prongs end up bent. It's just a shit design.

You would be more likely to have the wire going into the plug coming loose and exposing wires. This is beause US plugs are generally thinner and weaker where the wire goes in and often the wire is extending out the side so it has the weight of the cord pulling on it. British plugs have the wire coming out the bottom with no weight pulling it in a way it shouldn't be.

I find the cost argument flawed. The cost difference is minimal compared to the additional safety features especially when compared to something like an airbag which is expensive and not even safe for everyone. Yet they're required.

As far as governmental costs, I rather pay for a few cord inspectors than to pay for the DHS saving me from terrorists.

Re:Depends on your criteria

[CaptnMArk]

You don't want Schuko then. It will pull sockets out of the wall or the cords out of plugs/appliances.

Re:Depends on your criteria

[Alphathon]

That's actually a fair point. I almost ripped a pair of sockets out of the wall once when I tripped over the cable attached to one of them. Luckily the cale was attached to a hoover at the other end which fell over so I didn't do that much damage, but if it had been something heavy like a TV (not that a TV would be plugged in to a socket on the other side of a corridor, but you get the picture) it would probbably have ripped a hole in the wall (it's only plaster after all)

Re:Depends on your criteria

[mrdoogee]

Thats when Maw and Paw had me go get a 'tater and just jam it on in there, hot circuit and everything.

Colloquialisms aside, It is a wonder I'm not dead.

Re:Depends on your criteria

[CrimsonAvenger]

I find the cost argument flawed. The cost difference is minimal compared to the additional safety features especially when compared to something like an airbag which is expensive and not even safe for everyone. Yet they're required.

If you want to figure out the cost difference, call an electrician, ask him how much he'd charge to replace all the outlets in your house/apartment/whatever you live in. If it's more than about $10, it'll cost more to fix the problem nationwide than we spend dealing with electrical fires from all sources.

Note further that airbags are required, without any real evidence that they help you more than just wearing seatbelts would. In other words, bad example, since airbags added some amount to cost of vehicles without adding anything meaningful to vehicle safety.

Note, by the by, that I'm a big fan of seatbelts. I once saw a car hit another at about 90 mph, ride over it, go flying, land spinning, and end up upside down on the highway. All four occupants unbuckled their belts and got out of the car swearing a blue streak. None were more than slightly injured.

And this was before airbags were required in vehicles, so no airbags, just seatbelts....

Re:Depends on your criteria

[sydb]

And as for the built-in fuse: how many plugs are actually fitted with a fuse that is appropriately rated for the device it connects?

Well, whenever you buy a mains powered device it comes with the right fuse. All us UK leccy-lovers know that fuses occasionally blow, but it's an indication of a fault so not particularly common. I know I make my best effort to fit the correctly rated fuse when it does happen, though I admit if I'm in a hurry any fuse'll do. This is a once-in-five-years occurence though so I'd be an old man before I replaced even half of my fuses with the wrong rating, and by that time I'd have replaced much of my equipment through "progress". So that's a shit argument.

What I hate are those blanking plates (...) I think that people who buy these plates don't understand the safety features built into a UK 13A socket.

I think you're right but I do remember as a child with a high single digit age (and probably IQ) I learned I could open the socket up with a knitting needle in the earth pin and stick wires in there. That's how I got my first (of many) electric shocks as a child. I miss electric shocks now that I'm a grown-up spark-fearing pussy. Never ddi me know ham though.

Re:Depends on your criteria

[thetoadwarrior]

I'd agree that airbags aren't that helpful. That was my point (though I probably cocked it up) that airbags aren't that helpful and yet we have to effectively pay for them now no matter what.

Airbags aren't that helpful for people some people, like short people and yet they're stuck with them.

An electrician will charge you more to do anything. For companies to to switch plugs the cost has to be fairly minimal. I don't believe for a second Lenovo pays anywhere near what I do for country specific plug adapters for my laptop.

I worked for a company that made hygrometers and similar equipment. They had to stock UK, Euro and US leads. I definitely don't recall there being any real difference in cost. It's all about the volumes you buy in and if the UK plug is the most expensive and everyone switched to that, the price would drop. Making plugs for 70 million people vs 6.7 billion has to make a difference.

Re:Depends on your criteria

[petermgreen]

Now only if they could be used for power instead of just for audio/video.
did you even read the second sentance article you just linked?

Re:Depends on your criteria

[petermgreen]

What I hate are those blanking plates that are sold as a child safety device.
It depends which ones.

When I was growing up we had some mothercare branded ones that had all three pins made of full length solid plastic, getting them out was an effort even for an adult or older child and since all three holes were filled fully there was no issue with them making the live and neutral toucable.

OTOH some that I have seen more recently have been downright dangerous.

Re:Depends on your criteria

[confused one]

It was the standard until a guy named Hubbell came along and invented a plugable connection that "any average man could safely use".

Re:Depends on your criteria

[JuzzFunky]

Here is an interesting talk at TED.com on safe power outlets TED.com

Re:Depends on your criteria

[omb]

Good, I hope it HURT

Re:Depends on your criteria

[beav007]

The you want a Magsafe plug then. What would we do without Apple?

Re:Depends on your criteria

[CrimsonAvenger]

I'd agree that airbags aren't that helpful. That was my point (though I probably cocked it up) that airbags aren't that helpful and yet we have to effectively pay for them now no matter what.

So, your argument is that even if it's pointless, laws regulating the way things are done are a good thing?

Personally, I don't agree.

As to the cost of the English sockets, doesn't much matter what it costs to make them. Matters only what the cost of a transition would be. And that cost would include everyone in the USA (assuming we're talking a transition in the USA, as opposed to the world) getting all new sockets, plus all new appliances (or, as a minimum, having an electrician rewire all their electrical equipment).

Alas, that cost would be too high to be worth the bother.

But, the real question is - "why are we debating this?". TFA said it was an objective* analysis. The * led to the definition of "objective" that they were using:

Objectivity in this sentence has a one-off, government-approved change in definition. Its meaning here, and only here, is the exact opposite of what it usually means.

In other words, the entire article was a joke. The fact that most of /. seems to have taken it seriously says disturbing things about most of /.

Re:Depends on your criteria

[Nikker]

You also have to remember most of these deaths come from electrical wiring and not the plugs themselves.

Home electrical wiring causes twice as many fires as electrical appliances.From the article you linked

It is the daisy chaining of outlets that cause most fires as well as of course Christmas tress (also from your link) that are real, dry and have lots of lights on them. The plugs themselves as long as they are plugged in properly are fine, I've even touched a live wire, not that I'm proud but it stings like a bitch but that's about it. Just like everything else they just want to be able to regulate. As far as lock-in plugs and other "safe plugs" its not really safer since once a "regular" since most electrical wiring problems exist within the walls or by overloading sockets by over use of extension cords. So really the discussion of a best socket is really moot.

Maybe we should discuss how plugs and power sources should be adapted to suit 'current' electronics, such as looking into DC power rather than AC.

Re:Depends on your criteria

[jabuzz]

Air bags reduce serious injuries and deaths even when wearing seat belts. They do however increase the number of minor none life threatening injuries.

What would you prefer, a bruise from an air bag deployment in a low speed impact where a seat belt would do fine, or being dead?

Note that in europe air bags deploy with less force than in the USA because wearing of seat belts is mandatory (in general) and they therefore cause less injuries.

Re:Depends on your criteria

[jabuzz]

Every single device in my house has a correctly rated fuse. In fact I go one better and have 1A, 2A, 7A and 10A fuses available so may devices are fitted with smaller fuses than normal as only 3A, 5A and 13A fuses are in widespread availability.

Re:Depends on your criteria

[OrangeCatholic]

Agreed. Now how about when you plugged in something behind a dresser and the brain-dead US design made it impossible to do so by feeling around? I think I've gotten lucky about twice. The rest of the time I moved the dresser and did it visually. I don't see why these plugs can't be conical and with non-symmetrical pins so they go in in the dark.

Re:Depends on your criteria

[Blakey Rat]

It does in fact imply that some problems are down to the design of the US plug.

So now you're suggesting that we retrofit EVERY old building to modern wiring standards?

You're being intellectually dishonest-- compare the modern British standard with the modern US standard, otherwise it's apples and oranges.

For the record, no building in the US built after the mid-80s has:
1) An outlet without a ground
2) An outlet that in a room with plumbing without a built-in GFI

Re:Depends on your criteria

[KeNickety]

Umm, something like a Neutrik Powercon perhaps? rated for 20A at 250v continuous, although they also have a 32A variant.

Re:Depends on your criteria

[KeNickety]

And yet all of those fires would be preventable by the use of a fuse in the plug.

PoW

[arhhook]

I wonder what happens when Power over Wireless becomes widely used.

Re:PoW

[Kenja]

We all save on electrolysis?

Re:PoW

[Itninja]

The American obesity epidemic will be replaced with the global mysterious-third-degree-burns epidemic?

Re:PoW

[Jeek Elemental]

phone support: "is it plugged in?"
"yes"
"well theres your problem"

Irony

[R2.0]

From TFA:
"We do have some things going for us though. Our health system means if we get ill, we get treated -- and our power plugs are excellent. "

Right under the picture of a NEMA 5-15R.

um no

[Anonymous Coward]

8 fucking pages with two small paragraphs on each page? fuck. off.

Re:um no

[Anonymous Coward]

I totally agree. The author didn't mention USSR plug, which is able to carry 6A, 250V.

Re:um no

[jaavaaguru]

And they missed out this fantastic example which I saw in a shopping mall in Abu Dhabi.

Re:um no

[the_womble]

8 fast loading pages with an extremely funny and often quite lengthy paragraph or two on each, plus a picture of what each page is talking about. Not eprfect, but well worth the clicks.

I live in a country in which sockets may either be the current British square pin type, or the old British round pin type. Appliances may come with almost any type of plug: things that do not need an earth usually come with a two pin round pin plug, but you may find almost anything: I have the French German hybrid type, Australian and others.

You get the same variety on UPS sockets. Getting everything to plug in can be fun, if you are not careful what you buy.

Obviously people use adaptors a lot, and routinely put pens (I find chopsticks better, though) into three pin sockets to get two pin plugs in. Unfortunately the brand of adaptor most commonly available, although very cheap, has a tendency to short out and melt.

Re:um no

[the_womble]

I forgot to say: we actually use two types of round pin plug, because the smaller type cannot carry enough current for many devices (oven, microwave ovens, air-conditioners...), so there is a bigger type for them.

Having lived with all of the above I agree with the conclusion that the British square pin plugs are the best.

Re:um no

[Anonymous Coward]

autopager plugin FTW!

Re:um no

[petermgreen]

And i'm betting people often use adaptors and/or forcing methods that connect the live and neutral but fail to connect the earth. Hell I see foreigners in the UK doing this all too often.

Re:um no

[Kakao]

Sure the worse article about anything I have ever read. That said here in Brazil we are in the middle of a new plug standard change. This blog post has some pictures.

Re:um no

[Anonymous Coward]

Agreed. And the content is utter wank too.

Gizmodo covered this about a week ago

[cabjf]

There already is an international standard. The problem is that no one is going to invest a ton of money to scrap their current system (pun?) and switch over to it.

http://gizmodo.com/5391271/giz-explains-why-every-country-has-a-different-fing-plug

Re:Gizmodo covered this about a week ago

[FooAtWFU]

I'm surprised that there aren't a bunch of multi-plugs built into houses, then. Sort of like what they do for dual-gauge railways.

Re:Gizmodo covered this about a week ago

[seanthenerd]

Mod parent up! The gizmodo article is fantastic.

Re:Gizmodo covered this about a week ago

[oldhack]

There already is an international standard. The problem is that no one is going to invest a ton of money to scrap their current system (pun?) and switch over to it.

Was "switch over" a pun, too?

Re:Gizmodo covered this about a week ago

[damn_registrars]

At first I thought your story was going to be worth reading, then I noticed the link:

giz-explains-why-every-country-has-a-different-fing-plug

I'm not falling for those goatse references ...

Poll

[Anonymous Coward]

We already know what Slashdot readers think.

As I found out on my trip from the US to the UK

[FlyingSquidStudios]

Many laptop makers (and probably makers of other electronics too) design their power supplies to be universal. All you need to change is the (usually removable) cable that goes from the outlet to the transformer. I was able to charge my American Macbook by taking the cable out of the clock radio in my room and plugging it into the little square Macbook transformer box thingy. Since that's a feature they don't even bother advertising, I imagine it's cheap and easy enough to make no one's socket better than anyone else's.

Re:As I found out on my trip from the US to the UK

[ducomputergeek]

Discovered this when I lived in Germany as well. I had a power adaptor with a US plug. The apple store there had me go around the corner to a audio shop. Showed them the adaptor, they could one that went from the adaptor to the wall and it cost me E1.50. Worked the entire time I was over there, but the transformer ran hot. I mean really, really hot. I'm pretty sure that's why I had to buy a new one when a few weeks of returning to the states after living in Germany for almost a year.

Re:As I found out on my trip from the US to the UK

[Anonymous Coward]

It is easy to do now thanks to switching power supplies - also the reason why your phone charger is so little and light. Switching power supplies are much cheaper than old transformer ones.

Another big bonus for the manufacturer is that they only have to stock/make one version for all countries. That is why you will often find your new TV comes with a few different cables, for different kinds of socket, and has German text in the manual.

Re:As I found out on my trip from the US to the UK

[Anonymous Coward]

AFAIK, the only difference between the US and European power supplies is the plug.

Apple (and other manufactures) have had several recalls on laptop power supplies for fire/heat issues. Most likely you just had a bad unit.

Re:As I found out on my trip from the US to the UK

[Maddog Batty]

Be careful. The difference between MOST power supplies is the plug but there are some (mainly the older types) which will only work of the correct voltage supply.

Always check the label before plugging it in.

Re:As I found out on my trip from the US to the UK

[MBGMorden]

Very true. I remember my half-Japanese roommate in college having to have a rather bulky power converter to use his Japanese PS2 in the American outlets (ironically he ALSO bought an American PS2 - guess he figured an extra unit for US games was less aggravating than mod chips :)).

Re:As I found out on my trip from the US to the UK

[jo_ham]

Almost all laptop power bricks use switching transformers - it means they don;t have to make a specific model for each country they sell the laptop in. Even my UK-spec iMac, which was never designed to travel runs just fine on US or UK power - it'll run on anything between 110 and 250V and 50 or 60Hz.

Apple's brick has a standard figure 8 connector (albeit with a fancy Apple-design slide-and-clip if you use the plug block or one of their official cables) so you can use a standard figure 8 flex cord with it here in the UK - if you have to travel back here, just buy one at duty free, it'll cost you about £2 - no need to buy an official Apple power cable for it.

http://www.aria.co.uk/Products/Peripherals/Cabling/Power/Power+Lead+(Figure+8+Connector)+UK+3pin+?productId=58 - these plug right into Apple's power bricks.

Re:As I found out on my trip from the US to the UK

[gyrogeerloose]

Switching power supplies are much cheaper than old transformer ones.

Unfortunately, they're much more electrically noisy as well. I use a 13.8 VDC switching power supply with a VHF ham radio mobile rig that I run as a base station. I have to turn it off if I want to use my HF receiver to monitor any frequency below about 3 MHz due to switching noise from the power supply.

KJ6BSO

Plugs? Really?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sometimes I see a question that is so ridiculously picky that I have to stop and say to myself, "Am I really going to waste me time with this? Why do I even care about this? Aren't there better things to do with my life?" This is one of those questions.

(Obligatory XKCD: http://xkcd.com/198/)

Re:Plugs? Really?

[gyrogeerloose]

And yet, here you are... ;-)

UK is the worst

[Anonymous Coward]

Everybody who ever looked at a UK powerbar know why UK plugs suck

Server Not Plugged In

[Anonymous Coward]

What plug was their server using? It seems to have slipped out...

Re:Server Not Plugged In

[Tablizer]

I hope their plug design allows one to yank it out fast because it's slashdotted and probably smoking right now.

Too many pages

[Anonymous Coward]

Is it really neccessary to spead the article over 10 pages, each of which has approximately 1 paragraph?

So, UK has the best plugs...

[CannonballHead]

... and apparently the worst servers...

Is this really front page news?

[jimicus]

Seriously, why don't you just post "Nothing happened today" in big letters on the front page?

Re:Is this really front page news?

[whatajoke]

Because "nothing happened today" will become dupe soonish?

Re:Is this really front page news?

[at_slashdot]

Why isn't the parent modded "insightful"?

Re:Is this really front page news?

[Fishchip]

Because it's more fun to watch people flip out over a mains standard.

Re:Is this really front page news?

[syousef]

Seriously, why don't you just post "Nothing happened today" in big letters on the front page?

See what happens when your mains sockets are inferior. People think I'm crazy when I tell them first it's the mains socket, but before you know it your judgement's gone, slashdot has turned into digg, and cats and dogs are sleeping together. Fix that mains socket design before it's all too late!!!

Re:Is this really front page news?

[Volante3192]

I like useless articles like this sometimes. This one gets the electrical nuts out of the woodwork and I start learning things that I'd normally have no reason to go out and look, but are interesting nonetheless.

Re:Is this really front page news?

[that IT girl]

Because people will demand that they be able to RTFA!
Oh, wait...

Re:Is this really front page news?

[dAzED1]

electric nuts....charged screws...

holy cow! EEs are prostitutes!

Re:Is this really front page news?

[Anonymous Coward]

Have dupes ever stopped them before?

Re:Is this really front page news?

[Idarubicin]

Seriously, why don't you just post "Nothing happened today" in big letters on the front page?

That's truly remarkable. Of the first twenty stories on the front page, this one has by far the most comments.

And here I've gone and added one more.

To a story about plugs.

I need a beer.

Re:Is this really front page news?

[kaini]

This one gets the electrical nuts out of the woodwork.

I don't even know where to start with this sentence.

Re:Is this really front page news?

[dangitman]

This one gets the electrical nuts out of the woodwork

"Electrical nuts"? Woodwork? This is a very unorthodox form of electronic engineering. Were you taught by squirrels, perchance?

Re:Is this really front page news?

[gogebic]

That's one of the main reasons I read Slashdot!

Mod parent up. Oh, wait, they're already at 5, never mind.

Swiss

[drsmithy]

Of the various plugs and sockets I've spent time living with (Australian, US, European, British), my personal favourite is the Swiss one. Small, secure, strong and aesthetically pleasing. The habit the Swiss have of also integrating a socket with most light switches is also quite useful.

Re:Swiss

[IamTheRealMike]

The Swiss design is OK. it's compatible with European sockets which is nice. I still prefer the British design though.

The main problem is that for some reason plugs often fail to easily go into sockets. I don't know why. This is a problem I had exactly never in the UK but I frequently have to wiggle the plug around to make it go in.

Re:Swiss

[mspohr]

I agree. The Swiss have the best plugs. Sturdy round pins go into a recessed socket for safety.

On the other hand, the British plugs are just too large and clumsy. They look like something out of a Frankenstein movie. Also, the individual on/off switches on each socket drive me crazy. It's always off when you need it to be on and don't check it. I never want to be able to turn off an outlet.

Re:Swiss

[omb]

Correct, small, and EE correct

Part of the Schweizerish "Do it right the first time"

Almost anti Dilbert ... "Think, plan ... Do"

Re:Swiss

[omb]

No, the EU plug has bigger ROUND pins, so you can not force it into a Swiss Socket unless you drill out the face-plate to permit entry, DONT'T do this, use an adaptor!

The insertion problem is because Idiots have damaged receptacles, If a competent Swiss Elektro-Techniker (a haus-teknik contractor) is called he will, by law, fix/replace all non-compliant receptacles, which were damaged.

This is part of the Round Pin Fix, which is needed if Receptacles are damaged. I live in a traditional haus where over-current/current-balance is on ALL circuits, and is legally mandated in the baugesetz.

Re:Swiss

[Boldoran]

That often happens in power strips if there are child safety features in the socket. Some of them are just too rigid. Also I may be biased but of all the european designs I encountered up till now the swiss reallyseems to be the best. You can have 3 outlets in the same space of a single euro one.

Re:Swiss

[MichaelSmith]

The main problem is that for some reason plugs often fail to easily go into sockets.

Is it something to do with the Earth pin? In Malaysia I often find that the mechanical interlock between Earth and Active prevents the plug from seating correctly. Some Australian power boards work the same way.

Re:Swiss

[theolein]

I live in Switzerland and the Swiss plugs are indeed very good, as they are modular and almost all extenders are recessed so your kid can't stick anything in there. The best, however, that I've ever seen are the German plugs. They are all recessed. Very, very good design.

Re:Swiss

[Radtoo]

I also like this design the most, but the improved standard here seems even better: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60906-1. The sleeve in particular will eliminate pretty much the only way to mishandle the plug (not that it was easy before - there's no live contact until the plug's already pretty deep in the socket anyhow).

The main problem is that for some reason plugs often fail to easily go into sockets. I don't know why. This is a problem I had exactly never in the UK but I frequently have to wiggle the plug around to make it go in.

This sounds like you most likely felt a design feature very frequently found in swiss sockets, a child-safety shutter. These protect against kids closing a circuit by inserting wire or such into the plug holes. They may be harder to operate than the UK ones - I don't know.

Re:Swiss

[MemoryDragon]

I like them as well, but there is one downside with them, it is hard to add child protection covers on those, either you have shutters in the
outlet or you are literally screwed. The european plugs allow for turn-open child protection covers simply are not possible on them, either you integrate shutters directly into the outlets or you are basically screwed.

Re:Swiss

[Michael Wardle]

Sure, but what good is a standard if only one country uses it?

Re:Swiss

[markus_baertschi]

And it has the advantage that Euro-Plugs fit into it.

On neat trick is to buy a Swiss power cord and rip out the third (ground) pin. You get a power cord which fits in all Euro sockets without adapter.

The Swiss plug is the one labelled 'Type 3' on the world map of the Gizmodo article above.

Markus

Swiss best design

[achowe]

IMO the Swiss plug design is the best I've seen, compared to North America, Australia, European (France & friends), and the British. The Brit plug has to be the worst bulky design; the European design is so but very difficult when you use transformers on power bars. The Aussie design is a little on the large side.

Re:Swiss best design

[mini me]

This is a pretty ingenious solution to the bulk problem of the UK plug: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6DvjKkGT6s

This article sucks.

[datapharmer]

This article sucks. This made the front page of slashdot? Really? Come on! This isn't news and my cat knows more about electricity than the writers of this crud.

Better idea

[Wonko the Sane]

If there was some move to rewire the entire world with a single residential standard I'd vote for NEMA L15.

Single-phase power is a hack.

Re:Better idea

[russotto]

If there was some move to rewire the entire world with a single residential standard I'd vote for NEMA L15.

Twist-lock is a plot by the robotic overlords! If we can't yank the plug out quickly, how are we supposed to stop them when they won't turn off!

Re:Better idea

[mcgrew]

That's a little expensive for a 100 watt lamp, don't you think? Fine for an electric stove but overkill for most applications.

Re:Better idea

[Wonko the Sane]

The cost of the plug would come down with volume, and you could make smaller low amperage versions. No one makes a NEMA L15-5, but it would carry the same amount of power as a NEMA 5-15.

Anything that had a motor or an AC-DC converter will be more efficient with a three phase power supply, and even incandescent bulbs could easily be made to work by reconfiguring the filament into a delta.

Re:Better idea

[MichaelSmith]

If there was some move to rewire the entire world with a single residential standard I'd vote for NEMA L15.

Single-phase power is a hack.

Only if you generate three phase power. There is nothing special about the number three. We could use 16 phase power if we wanted to.

Re:Better idea

[Wonko the Sane]

Only if you generate three phase power.

Practically all generators on the grid are three phase. In most urban areas the lines outside your house are three phase so it's not that much of a stretch to bring it into the house. The electric utilities would be much happier because they wouldn't need to worry about phase imbalances any more.

There is nothing special about the number three. We could use 16 phase power if we wanted to.

We could use 16 phase, but it doesn't really give you any advantages over 3 phases and it makes you use a lot more wires.

Three is special because it is the lowest number that provides all the benefits that you get from going polyphase.

Re:Better idea

[qc_dk]

Only if you generate three phase power.

Practically all generators on the grid are three phase. In most urban areas the lines outside your house are three phase so it's not that much of a stretch to bring it into the house. The electric utilities would be much happier because they wouldn't need to worry about phase imbalances any more.

Where do you live? I have three phase power brought into my home. It's only used for high power appliances, but it runs my washing machine, tumbler, and oven.

Re:Better idea

[Wonko the Sane]

Where do you live? I have three phase power brought into my home.

I'm in the US. I hear that in Europe that some locations use three phase for large appliances but here residential three-phase is extremely rare.

Re:Better idea

[ProfFalcon]

I manage a data center where we use many of the twist-lock outlets. True, you can't get them out quickly when the robots start taking over the world. Terrified me greatly. I locked all of the equipment up in racks with locking doors on the cabinets. Can't be too safe!

Re:Better idea

[Weezul]

No, not NEMA L15, but similar. I'd say a small conical rubber plug with four ridges that contain the four leads, and the voltage and AC vs DC are `negotiated' through beveled ridges on the outlet and insets on the plug. 100-120v AC only has 2 ridges, 200-240v AC only has 3 ridges, and DC only has 5 ridges. All ridges and insets are placed symmetrically around the outlet and plug, meaning a device that can use 100-240v AC has 3 insets, a device that uses 110v AC or DC has 10 insets, a device that uses all has 30 insets, etc. So all devices use essentially the same smallish plug, either outlet or device may handle the power conversion, but no connection is possible if `negotiations' fail. Also, portable devices should attach the plug to the wall using magnets while some twist lock option exists for non-portable devices. Just one plug to rule them all! :)

Re:Better idea

[Wonko the Sane]

Why bother with all those different voltages? Standardize all your loads on 240V/3 phase. Small DC loads should standardize on USB power. You can even include the USB converter inside the outlet. Anything that needs more DC than USB can provide will need its own converter, like they do now.

Article summary

[commodore64_love]

Article summary (score out of 10):

10- UK
9 - Denmark
8 - Italy
2 - Australia
1 - USA (no surprise)
1 - Japan (surprise)
0 - EU

I suspect bias. I also suspect this article was meant to be humourous. BTW an American plug can handle 15 amps easily; it's how I run my spare heater.

Re:Article summary

[Kell Bengal]

I find the low score for Aussie plugs surprising. I wonder if they're examining the new (shielded conductor) plugs, or the old unshielded ones.

Re:Article summary

[brackishboy]

That'll be 15 amps at 110v: to get the same power out of a British socket would only require 7.5 amps which would be (relatively speaking) safer, surely?

Re:Article summary

[commodore64_love]

>>>That'll be 15 amps at 110v: to get the same power out of a British socket would only require 7.5 amps which would be (relatively speaking) safer, surely?

No actually 110 volt would be safer because that's typically not enough "push" to overcome skin resistance, and therefore little harm will be done.

Also in the U.S. we do have 220 volt plugs for high-energy devices that need more energy - things like stoves or hot water tanks. They are bulky three-prong affairs.

Re:Article summary

[realityimpaired]

BTW an American plug can handle 15 amps easily; it's how I run my spare heater.

Yeah. But 15 amps on a 110V socket isn't as much power as 15 amps on a 220V socket.

Of course, you can change the breaker that's in use to increase the current that the socket can handle. Check that it's rated for the increased power draw, but you can get 30A, 45A, 60A and 100A breakers in North America to replace the standard 15A breaker that most sockets run on.

Re:Article summary

[astralbat]

You suspect humour? I suspect that Americans do not understand it at all! I was laughing all the way! But maybe that's because I'm British and I understand that this is really just a complete piss take on the rest of the world. If I had wanted to read a serious comparison, I would have read Wikipedia

Re:Article summary

[Shag]

BTW an American plug can handle 15 amps easily; it's how I run my spare heater.

I'm trying to decide whether:
1. You have an extra heater.
2. You meant "space heater."
3. You think your "hot spares" need to be kept literally hot.

Re:Article summary

[Teun]

UK drivel, bunt then they did start with typical British humor explaining how unbiased their investigation was.

As an electrician/electrical engineer that travels a lot I can agree with most that comes after the silly UK score.

But I find it strange they left out the French which is very similar to the Danish and the German which is probably most widespread.

Re:Article summary

[517714]

The outlet can handle 15 A, but you cannot draw more than 12.5 A through it. Therefore any claims on hairdryers and vacuum cleaners in excess of 1500 Watts are bogus, and that only occurs at the maximum of 120 V (115 V is the nominal value and has been for years)

Re:Article summary

[Anonymous Coward]

Definitely taking the mick. Not sure what's not obvious about it.

(For the record, British plugs are rubbish. Need they truly be so large?)

Re:Article summary

[Anonymous Coward]

you're just bitter because you lost, ha ha!

Re:Article summary

[Idarubicin]

BTW an American plug can handle 15 amps easily; it's how I run my spare heater.

15 amps is good, the British plug (Type G, or BS 1363) is only rated for 13 amps. But wait -- the American plug is only good for up to 125 volts; the Brits are rated up to 240 volts.

That's up to 3120 watts, and it's why all American kettles suck ass.

Re:Article summary

[petermgreen]

BTW an American plug can handle 15 amps easily; it's how I run my spare heater.
But the voltage is only 120V giving 1.8KW.

Pretty weedy compared to the british 2.99KW (assuming you believe them when they tell use the nominal voltage is now 230V but thats another argument) and continental 3.68KW

Here is my opinion

UK: 8/10: good points: fused, firm fit, cable conventially exits at right angles making it lie flat to the wall, little in the way of dangerous semi-compatibilities (unless someone sticks a tool in the earth hole but if you have to go that far to make something fit it's abuse and doesn't count IMO) Bad points: bulky
australian: 7/10, pretty similar to UK but lacks the fusing.
Schuko/french and danish: 2/10, good points: high current capcity. bad points: bulky, suffers a lot from dangerous semi-compatibilites (schuko and french plugs will go into danish and some italian outlets without picking up an earth and will also go into many old unearthed sockets), schuko unlike the others is also unpolarised.
italian: 3/10, good points: compact. bad points: non-polarised. some variants will accept schuko and/or french plugs without earthing them.
Europlug: 5/10, good points: compatible with lots of socket types. bad points: obviously not suitable for larger appliances, may be quite a loose fit.
US: 4/10, good points: 110V is less likely to kill you if you do get a shock, fairly compact. bad points: low power availible, loose fit, no system for preventing users touching pins on a partly withdrawn plug.

My ideal plug would be something like a neutrik powercon but designed so it couldn't be dismantled without tools and fitted with a fuse.

Re:Article summary

[Anonymous Coward]

Did Denmark only get a 9 because its plug looks like a smiley face?

Re:Article summary

[Anonymous Coward]

That was humor? british humor is so... dry .... about the only thing that is dry in that soggy wet rainy foggy country .. no wonder you need fuses in every switch to keep the damp british from frying themselves when their heaters in :-)

Re:Article summary

[neonsignal]

I think the article forgot an important feature of the Aussie plugs, we deserve a higher rating. We also have a design feature where the ground pin is at the bottom, so that if your fingers accidentally touch the pins as you insert the plug, you are guaranteed to hit the live wire first.

Re:Article summary

[Ares]

Per the NEC you're not allowed to draw more than 12 amps continuously through it (the 80% rule, or the 125% rule depending on your point of view, where continuous is defined as anything over 3 hours). Hair dryers can and do draw 15 A regularly and assuming a 125V nominal voltage that works out to 1875W.

Re:Article summary

[BeardedChimp]

I came home from the pub pissed as usual and was in tears reading this. The only thing I have laughed more at is reading the comments, it is incredible how few people realise the satire in this article.
*Hint* This isn't about sockets

Re:Article summary

[Anonymous Coward]

Article summary (score out of 10):

10- UK
9 - Denmark
8 - Italy
2 - Australia
1 - USA (no surprise)
1 - Japan (surprise)
0 - EU

I suspect bias. I also suspect this article was meant to be humourous. BTW an American plug can handle 15 amps easily; it's how I run my spare heater.

What about the infamous Butt Plug... nobody ever talks about that one. It works in every country and you don't need any fancy adaptor kit!

Re:Article summary

[Anonymous Coward]

That nasty UK caltrop got 10 out of 10? I say it deserves at lest -3 for sheer foot hazard

Re:Article summary

[FallinWithStyle]

Well the biggest "what the fuck" moment for me was on page 8/8: "There is only one possible criticism of the UK plug and socket system, and that's that it doesn't really look like a happy, smiling face -- the Americans can hold that over us." I was initially shocked at the possibility of nationalism reaching this point... But then again, I am an American... so whoosh!

Re:Article summary

[CSMatt]

You suspect humour? I suspect that Americans do not understand it at all!

That is because Americans only understand humor and not humour.

Re:Article summary

[bar-agent]

That's because Aussie plugs are for real men.

Re:Article summary

[bar-agent]

Did Denmark only get a 9 because its plug looks like a smiley face?

Yeah. The article didn't even try to be serious. UK plugs (teh winnarz) suck ass.

Re:Article summary

[qc_dk]

Ah yes the wonderful british plug. Look at my new netbook it's tiny and only weighs 500 grams, but of course I need to bring along the plug to charge it so I keep it in this suitcase and have my flunkies carry it. The only plug worse than the british plug is the South African, and there are no points for guessing who invented that plug.

Re:Article summary

[noidentity]

I suspect bias. I also suspect this article was meant to be humourous. BTW an American plug can handle 15 amps easily; it's how I run my spare heater.

What matters is watts, so countries which use higher voltages will have more friendly plugs, as they won't need metal as thick, etc. At 15 amps, you could run twice the heating from a UK outlet than a US one.

Re:Article summary

[commodore64_love]

>>>>>I also suspect this article was meant to be humourous.
>>
>>You suspect humour?

Not what I said. I said I suspect the article was "meant" to be humourous (i.e. it failed miserably). Apparently lack of reading skills is not just an American trait.

Re:Article summary

[Anonymous Coward]

Where does 'taking the piss' come from?

It makes no sense and if taken literally...

Re:Article summary

[clone53421]

I also suspect this article was meant to be humourous.

You think? Personally I thought the clue was when he defined "objective" to mean exactly the opposite of its usual meaning.

Re:Article summary

[Gadgetfreak]

Also in the U.S. we do have 220 volt plugs for high-energy devices that need more energy - things like stoves or hot water tanks. They are bulky three-prong affairs.

That was my issue - common room outlets are 110 VAC and 15A (often 20A in kitchens and other high-draw areas) in in the US, but the actual household mains in a typical house here has 220 VAC in the circuit breaker panel. It's merely split in two for the branch circuits. So while 110v is the standard, nearly everyone has 220v available. If you want a 220v outlet, you get a 220v breaker that bridges both buses, and making sure you have adequate branch wiring installed, put a 220v outlet on the other end. Done and done.

Most electric clothes dryers are 220v, and most houses are built with 220v outlets in the laundry area and garage area for large appliances.

Re:Article summary

[Anonymous Coward]

It does speak to the safety of the things when the worst you can say about them is how much they hurt to step on. To which I can only say, man up!

Re:Article summary

[Anonymous Coward]

I guessing most of those also missed the disclaimer on their use of the word "objective", which pretty much gives it away as a humour piece before they start.

OMG Ponies!

[Tablizer]

US plug design makes the cutest face. (Well, okay, the face actually looks kind of like the original Capt. Pike, but still better than theirs.)

Re:OMG Ponies!

[pwnies]

omg me!

Re:OMG Ponies!

[Menkhaf]

Cuter than the Danish smiley? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:K_plug.jpg ...didn't think so.

Re:OMG Ponies!

[Tablizer]

Nah, beady eyes like a car salesman.

Re:OMG Ponies!

[dunkelfalke]

Looks like one designed by the Japanese, very kawaii.

Re:OMG Ponies!

[Tablizer]

You're not God ;-P

Re:Really?

[carvell]

Yes, the British have "really decided" - a long time ago too! Stuff hasn't come with just bare wires for ages. I hesitate to suggest an actual number of years, because someone will come along and prove to me that there's one appliance left that still comes with bare wires for some odd reason or another, but I'll stick my neck out and say it's been well over a decade!

Perfect article for Arthur Weasley

[Anonymous Coward]

He collected plugs and batteries, didn't he?

Biased

[heffrey]

I think it was meant as a humorous wind-up!

Re:Biased

[realityimpaired]

Indeed...

Having RTFA... or at least the first page of it...

So, let's take a 100 per cent objective* look at the plugs and plug sockets of the world -- who will rise to be the global victor in this crucial battle between the power interconnects of the planet? We welcome you to a no-prongs barred fight that will eventually decide what sort of sockets they use on Mars.

*Objectivity in this sentence has a one-off, government-approved change in definition. Its meaning here, and only here, is the exact opposite of what it usually means.

That little footnote makes all the difference. :) Notice that the domain hosting TFA is a .co.uk. What this is doing as an actual hardware story, and not an idle post, I do not know.

That website SUCKS

[Anonymous Coward]

Can't read page 2, half the other pages time out. I thought CNET was supposed to be something other than a rinky dink POS single server blog site. Maybe it's because of the SUCKY laws and internet service in the UK.

Re:That website SUCKS

[Anonymous Coward]

Same thing. FF on linux and win don't render page 2. I had to use IE. I want the last ten minutes of my life back.

I see...

[Anonymous Coward]

what you did there

Sorry, American socket takes top honors...

[pastafazou]

America gave birth to the ultimate socket.

Biased...

[Colourspace]

.. but I have to say (sorry never experienced the swiss socket someone posted about already) that the British plug just seems to give so much more secure a connection when plugged into the wall, very stable. When using a euro or US plug I always feel like it is just going to fall out of the wall of its own accord. And yes the on off switch we have next to each socket saves a lot of wear and tear on plugging/unplugging - you know - to save the planet. Yes, its a little bit more bulky, but is that a real reason not to like it unless you are a weakling (most /. readers maybe?). Doesn't make a difference to me. Up there with the best. Makes me proud to be British (small tear trickles down cheek).

Re:Biased...

[GigsVT]

Have fun calling an electrician every time you need minor electrical work done.

Re:Biased...

[Anonymous Coward]

I guess you gotta have something

Re:Biased...

[dissy]

The best part about the europlug (or whatever they are naming the UK plug these days) is that only the tips of the leads are actually conductive, not the entire piece. The majority of those leads have plastic over them.

What this means is that until you have the plug far enough into the wall where you don't have much room for a finger in there, it can't make electrical contact, and thus no nasty shock.

In the US (Where I am) the entire lead is metal, and makes electrical contact with only say 1/4th to 1/3rd of the lead in the wall and the rest exposed. Plenty of opportunity for more zaps.

I am not familiar with any other nations plugs to know which they would be closer to comparatively, but personally I wish ALL of them were that way if nothing else. Of course a fixed standard would be a good second dream, but we all can guess at the expense of such a change thus it will not happen for a long time if ever.

Re:Biased...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'll take it you don't require a computer-type power bar/surge protector that has say... 8 or 10 outlets then.

I needed one to make a somewhat central 'charging station' for all of my small electronic devices. That thing's already friggin' massive, I can only fathom how big it would have to be to house 10 euro outlets!

Re:Biased...

[dissy]

Have fun calling an electrician every time you need minor electrical work done.

A) Aren't you required by electrical code laws to do the same?

B) What are you, scared of 240vac or something? ;}
  Just don't touch any of them while live and you'll manage fine. I've done plenty of 120, 240 (2 phase), and 480 (3 phase) wiring at home and work. Of course at work it needs inspected, but we have people here for that.

As long as you perform the simple operations of:
  1) shut off the breaker to that line, and
  2) verify a non-live socket with a multimeter

then it does not matter the voltage or amperage*, you won't have any problems.

* Obviously we are talking home and business mains wiring here.
Grabbing at a 20kv 1amp wire is a different story, and that level of voltage (or equivalent amperage) will laugh at you, and even the resistor we call 'air' is put to shame.

Re:Biased...

[EvanED]

And yes the on off switch we have next to each socket saves a lot of wear and tear on plugging/unplugging - you know - to save the planet.

What?

What sort of usage patters do you have that you regularly unplug something to turn it off? Almost exclusively when I unplug something, it's because (1) I want to move it somewhere else or (2) I need to free up an outlet for something else, neither of which a switch on the outlet helps with. I'm struggling to see a real use case for a switch on an outlet.

Re:Biased...

[drinkypoo]

A) Aren't you required by electrical code laws to do the same?

Nope. You just have to follow the code. If you need to deal with a service disconnect, then you probably need to involve a contractor at least to bless your installation. It doesn't cost much more to have them do the actual [dis]connect, so it's prudent. Anything inside the house where you can just shut off the master and do your work doesn't require a contractor, just do the job right. You do have to buy the code, which is fucked.

I've done my own wiring and even done some wiring to code for money, on an hourly basis. If you want to bid a job, you need to be a contractor. Any asshole can do hourly work. Only a contractor can bless certain things which is a requirement for inspection and signoff.

Re:Biased...

[dunkelfalke]

Try a Schuko socket sometimes. The connection is so stable that it might rather tear the socket from the wall than unplug the plug.

Re:Biased...

[qc_dk]

I've lived with the eurosocket for thirty years and I cannot remember a plug ever falling out. Ironically the UK plug for my laptop kept falling out of the socket the last time I was at a meeting in Oxford. So you might have the feeling that they aren't as sturdy, but aren't we men of progress, a true civilisation where science rules? I suggest we leave "feelings" to the savages.

Anyway, the brits have given us so much so we are going to let the plugs slide, and the plumbing... and maybe the food, but that's it. You'd better be on your best behaviour from now on young man.

Re:Biased...

[Fneb]

Have fun calling an electrician every time you need minor electrical work done.

Why is it necessary for a British person to call an electrician for minor electrical work, when it isn't for others?

Re:Biased...

[GigsVT]

In the US you can do your all your own electrical work (in most areas at least) and then get it inspected, in the UK only licensed electricians may work on anything at all.

Re:Biased...

[Fneb]

Really? Well, there you go. Thanks.

Worst ad laden pages ever.

[laci]

8 pages; only 11 (eleven) lines on the first page; not navigable without javascript enabled; no printable page option.

Remind me never to go to cnet's page...

--Laci

Re:Worst ad laden pages ever.

[lanyslinas]

Seriously, I don't understand how so many slashdotters got through the article far enough to form an opinion on it. I got to the 2nd page and couldn't take it.

Smiley Face Plugs

[Anonymous Coward]

Several map out to smileys

"Oh Noes!" :O
"Boooo >:o"

And last, but not least,

"Oh Hai! :D"

Re:Really?

[Anonymous Coward]

If I had to put a number on it I'd say its 20 years since I saw an electrical device without a plug sold in the UK

Re:Really?

[EEDAm]

I dunno when you last heard that from someone. Bare wire appliances haven't been sold since the 70's or early 80's in my memory (no doubt there's an exception somewhere). And the 100 plug thing is just bizarre. It's a single UK standard plug and that's it and has been since I can remember (I'm 40).

Cnet.uk's plugs are no good

[cadeon]

Site is pretty much slashdotted at the moment.

Slashdotted

[Borommakot_15]

Woo?

Safety?

[HockeyPuck]

Go with a nice IEC 309 connector. Water/dust proof and if you trip on it, it's not coming apart. Though the NEMA twis lock ones (Nema LX-YY) are nice too.

Aha! Time for my favorite indie design this year

[adamwright]

Min-Kyu Choi's Folding UK style plug. All the goodness of the UK plug, none of the bulky crap. http://www.minkyu.co.uk/Site/Product/Entries/2009/4/20_Folding_Plug_System.html

"The Italian design"

[whoever57]

The question for Italy is "Which Italian design"? Italy has several 220V outlet styles which are in active use. The UK used to have a couple of round pin designs also in common use, but these have pretty much gone the way of the dodo (except for some specialst uses).

I loved the "europlugs"

[Anonymous Coward]

When I was in both Spain and France they used them, Spain actually had several different standards, this was the late 80s. The old two hole plug literally came from the idea that you could always just strip down the wires and stick them in the holes if you didn't have a plug. Can you say unsafe fire hazzard! The plugs themselves are fine it's just the fact that people do just strip wires and stick them in the holes that make them dicey. People rarely do that with US plugs even though the US one are tricker to use.

110 vs 220

[nweaver]

OTOH, 110 is far less likely to whack you on your ass if you DO get shocked!

Re:110 vs 220

[redneckHippe]

As an electrician, all i can say is when I get nailed with 120v I give the wire a dirty look and when I get it from 240v I say #$%@#^%.
Lone Dragon

Re:110 vs 220

[rho]

I've known more than a few electricians whose natural skin resistance allowed them to grab bare 110 wires while they're still hot. It's quite something to see somebody wire in a new receptacle while it's still live.

Re:110 vs 220

[photon317]

Actually, IIRC (IANA Electrician though), 240v is going to more easily shock you than 110v (meaning slight bits of insulation that might save you from feeling 110 won't save you on 240), and the shock is going to feel more painful, but it's actually safer health-wise because it's a lower current shock than you'd receive in the same situation with 110v.

Re:110 vs 220

[HornWumpus]

You might want to reread that Ohms law thing photon.

Current = Voltage / resistance.

Your body doesn't change resistance based on what voltage it gets zapped by.

220 uses less current for a fixed load, not a fixed resistance.

Oh yeah?

[Yvan256]

Well, the Canada plug is better than the U.S.A. plug!

Re:Oh yeah?

[Interoperable]

True, it looks (and is) identical but somehow it's just friendlier. It also has better healthcare.

Re:Oh yeah?

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course--it's bi-lingual!

Re:Oh yeah?

[Anonymous Coward]

you mean bu** plug??

Re:Oh yeah?

[bill_mcgonigle]

Well, the Canada plug is better than the U.S.A. plug!

Somehow those flappy-pronged plugs just never seemed right.

I kid, I kid, have a Molson, eh?

Re:Oh yeah?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, the Canada plug is better than the U.S.A. plug!

And this unsupported claim scored 4, Informative? Informative, might have a link. They are the same.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_power_plugs_and_sockets#Type_B

Re:Oh yeah?

[Anonymous Coward]

I saw this was informative, and it made me laugh hard. It was meant to be funny, cause they are the same plug.

Re:Oh yeah?

[Yvan256]

I knew it, the mods are on crack.

Re:Really?

[WarwickRyan]

Don't believe everything you read on wikipedia.

Non-optimal

[Maximum Prophet]

None of these plugs are optimal. What properties would an optimal plug have? At the least:

• Symmetrical. (i.e. you should be able to plug it in upside-down)
• Spring should be on the cheap part. IEC cords on the computer side are like this. If the spring wears out, you just toss the cord, and get a new one
• The side that supplies the voltage should be the best shielded. (Most are like this) If you are connecting a battery to a charger, you have to have a really fancy plug that is doubly sheilded.

I don't see the advantage to fusing the plug versus a device with a replaceable fuse.
B.t.w. Christmas tree lights in the US have fused plugs with fuses on the hot and ground so that it can be plugged in upside down. Since there's no separate "device", just wires with bulbs, having the fuses in the plug makes sense.

Re:Non-optimal

[91degrees]

I don't see the advantage to fusing the plug versus a device with a replaceable fuse.

Accessibility. Actually it was a design that allowed all devices to be run of a single ring main rather than a separate cable to each socket. Less wire was an important consideration in the post war years.

Re:Non-optimal

[zoney_ie]

The one time I've actually had to replace a plug fuse (UK-style plug), was on a desk lamp (3A fuse). When the halogen spot gave out, it blew the fuse.

As regards Christmas lights, I don't know about the US, but here in Ireland (UK is the same) there is always a fuse bulb (as well as the fused plug). Not entirely sure why this is, but faulty Christmas lights seemingly even so manage to start fires here every year.

Re:Non-optimal

[qc_dk]

The reason for the fused wire is for the same reason the brits have a crappy rail service. The brits were there first. So they had already wired their houses and it was much easier to fuse the plugs, than rewiring the house to a new central fuseboard, and so a majestic hack was born.

Re:Non-optimal

[xaxa]

Symmetrical

But the live is more dangerous than the neutral. UK plugs must have the fuse right after the live pin, and appliances must have the power switch in the live wire (nowadays probably both wires).

if the spring wears out

The only times I've seen broken UK sockets is when they've been abused, e.g. the ones in the back row of a school science lab. House sockets from the 1960s still work.

I don't see the advantage to fusing the plug versus a device with a replaceable fuse.

It protects the wire between the socket and the appliance. The maximum current from a UK circuit is 30A, but that requires a bulky cable (like the one in the wall). You don't want that bulky cable on a desk lamp, so you put a fuse in the plug. The desk lamp will typically have a 1 or 3A fuse in the plug.

Unfortunately, the 3, 5 and 13A fuses are the same size, so it's possible to make the desk lamp unsafe by replacing the 3A fuse with a 13A one. People sometimes do this if the fuse keeps blowing (the lamp is probably faulty...) and end up with an unsafe appliance.

Re:Non-optimal

[Maximum Prophet]

Symmetrical

But the live is more dangerous than the neutral. UK plugs must have the fuse right after the live pin, and appliances must have the power switch in the live wire (nowadays probably both wires).

Right, use two (or more) neutrals surrounding and longer than the hot.

if the spring wears out

The only times I've seen broken UK sockets is when they've been abused, e.g. the ones in the back row of a school science lab. House sockets from the 1960s still work.

I don't see the advantage to fusing the plug versus a device with a replaceable fuse.

It protects the wire between the socket and the appliance. The maximum current from a UK circuit is 30A,

Yowsa! That's enough to power a clothes drier. In the US, the usual socket is only 120v 15A. Good point, protecting the wire. American Christmas light strings now have fuses in the plug, one on the hot, and one on the neutral so that the plug doesn't have to be polarized. But that type of plug is limited to about 3 amps.

Do you think these are INSTEAD???

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you think these are INSTEAD???

No, they get the fuse the covers and so on AND a GFI.

Now, which is the better option?

Just like a US popular UK TV show

[recharged95]

This article smells like it was written by the editors/hosts of Top Gear.

(as the ZR-1 cleans house...)

I'll translate for you

[Anonymous Coward]

I'll translate for you:

The UK plug SUCKS!!!! Cos the USA RULZ!!!! GO USA!!!

I hope that clears it up for you.

3-prong ground loop hum?

[eison]

Can somebody explain to me why 3-prong sockets can result in ground loop hum, and why the third prong is necessary? Shouldn't the ground part of a polarized connection be the same as the third prong, except without the potential ground loop problem due to having 2 grounds? I've read the 3rd prong is to ground a metal chassis to force a breaker trip in case of a problem, but couldn't you do that with the ground off a polarized connection instead of adding a new different ground? (Didn't learn anything about this until my PS3 started my sound system humming, have fixed the hum but still don't understand the principles involved.)

Also, why the polarized/unpolarized distinction? Why not just always polarize, even if it isn't required, since it is easy and doesn't hurt anything?

Re:3-prong ground loop hum?

[eric2hill]

This should help clear things up a bit.

Re:3-prong ground loop hum?

[lgw]

Typically, when you connect two pieces of equipment with a low-power connector (RCA cable, data cable, etc), you connect the chassis grounds. If both chassis grounds are in turn connected to two different electrical outlets, you create a big loop antenna. If one or both chassis are double-insulated and don't require a three-prong ground, no problems. I haven't seen any modern audio equipment with a thre-prong plug, presumably because of this.

But as the artical in the sibling post points out, not all hums are ground-loop hums. I had to toss a subwoofer that was just borked after my most recent move - spent some time trying to undertand how I had a ground loop with 2-pin plugs, then finally did an experiment that proved the amp inside the subwoofer was just having issues.

Re:3-prong ground loop hum?

[petermgreen]

but couldn't you do that with the ground off a polarized connection instead of adding a new different ground?
You could use the neutral for grounding but it's not considered safe in most situations (there are a few exceptions where special precautions are taken but that is outside of the scope of this discussion) because if the neutral breaks then it will rise up to a dangerous voltage. Using the neutral as earth wouldn't solve the ground loop problem anyway, it is caused by the interaction between stray magnetic fields, mains earth wiring and earths in signal cables.

For the rest of your questions see the article that "Eric^2" linked

Re:3-prong ground loop hum?

[marcansoft]

It's also a myth that hum is always caused by the grounding: sometimes, hum is caused by poor or lack of grounding. Often, hum that can be "fixed" by breaking the ground indicates an underlying problem (and possibly a danger for you or the equipment). For example, my Acer laptop has a hum issue when the AC adapter is connected and I route the audio to another grounded device. In this case, the cause is actually the poor grounding on the laptop's DC power cord: it should have 3 wires (earth, +, -) but instead they used a single shield for both earth and negative. The problem is this shield is poor, it has resistance, and a rather large current goes through this DC cable. Then, the laptop ground develops a varying voltage offset above AC earth. This voltage is shunted through any audio cable into any earthed appliance back into mains earth. In layman's terms, the laptop's DC current takes a detour through the audio cable, through the audio device into mains earth, and back out to the laptop's DC adapter, instead of (mostly) sticking to the DC cable. I've seen this very issue on at least one other Acer laptop model, so it might be endemic to their power adapters.

The proper fix would be to break the negative-ground connection at the AC adapter and run two wires (joined together at the laptop side of things), but I didn't want to tear the thing apart, so instead I just added a big fat extra ground: a thick mains-style wire running from the VGA port shell (a convenient ground on the laptop) to an AC outlet's ground (preferably one right next to the AC adapter's outlet) fixed the issue.

Remember people, wires aren't perfect, and that circuit analysis stuff that you learn in college is bullshit. Just because you draw a line between two points on a schematic doesn't mean they are at equal potential, at least until room-temperature superconductors become common (and then it's still DC only - even in mythical superconductor-land, inductance will still bite you if your current isn't constant).

Re:3-prong ground loop hum?

[eison]

That earth loop link is fantastic, thank you! Failed to find it with previous googling, and hadn't seen the solution they recommend before.

Twist Lock 4 ever!

[tweedlebait]

Someday all the sockets in my house will be replaced with them.
And I will play Jungle Hunt from the garage ceiling plugs.

Re:Twist Lock 4 ever!

[KonoWatakushi]

Wouldn't that be fun? Yeah, those are certainly nice.

In addition, lets have another couple of phases to improve DC conversion and simplify motors.

UK websites aren't any better!

[DrPeper]

Well apparently UK websites are not any better than US ones or websites in any other country because the website is down. Slashdoted!

Re:UK websites aren't any better!

[DrPeper]

Or maybe they just plugged it into the wrong socket!!

Just refreshed electrical in my US home...

[DomNF15]

everything from the panel to the wall plates got changed out. Bedrooms now require AFCI protection at the panel or in the first outlet of a run, GFCIs protect any outlets near water (kitchen & bathroom, and 1 GFCI can protect a number of other connected outlets downstream), the non-GFCI outlets have "shutters" on them and 3 prongs. I don't quite understand why anyone would think a fuse (what year are we in anyway) is better than a GFCI/AFCI breaker. Furthermore, those thicker UK prongs are probably a bitch to plug in/out and have to almost guarantee that tripping/yanking on a wire will result in the entire flippin outlet getting ripped out of the wall with it. Thanks but I'll stick to what we got here in the USA. Oh yeah and whoever mentioned that appliances don't have grounds was kinda sorta right. My 240 volt central A/C has two hots (120 + 120) and a neutral, no ground, it was just installed a few months ago.

Re:Just refreshed electrical in my US home...

[Rising Ape]

There is one advantage to the fuse - it can be sized appropriately for the appliance in question. Otherwise, every cable would have to be rated for the maximum 13 amps, even if it's only a lamp that needs maybe 0.25 amps. A more sensible place for a GFI would be at the fuse box rather than at every socket, as one breaker can cover the whole circuit (or even installation if you're being cheap).

I have yet to rip any sockets out of the wall by tripping over a cable, and don't know anyone who has. Maybe if they were mounted really, really poorly.

Re:Just refreshed electrical in my US home...

[hitnrunrambler]

A more sensible place for a GFI would be at the fuse box rather than at every socket, as one breaker can cover the whole circuit (or even installation if you're being cheap).

Seen it, don't want it.
Not applied generally anyway. The problem is one of layout, unless you seriously over engineer a household layout you've got lights and outlets that share a circuit. You're far more likely to hurt yourself walking around in the dark when you mixer trips the GFCI than you are by not having your lights tied into a GFI circuit.
For some circuits a GFCI breaker is the best option.
For some rooms a GFCI in each outlet is the best option.
For some rooms a chain from a GFCI to standard outlets (essentially converting those outlets) is the best option.

None of them work every time.

Re:Just refreshed electrical in my US home...

[Fjandr]

Otherwise, every cable would have to be rated for the maximum 13 amps, even if it's only a lamp that needs maybe 0.25 amps.

No, you don't. If the draw is only 0.25A, you don't need a larger power cable in an un-fused line. It's not generally a good idea to have a larger power cable than necessary. It just means if you have a short in the appliance that the cord will burn out instead of delivering the maximum circuit amperage to the fixture. There's a good reason why you can buy appliance cable that ranges from 18AWG on up. Lines should always be sized for the current that is supposed to run through them. Anything else is a safety hazard or a waste of money and copper.

Re:Just refreshed electrical in my US home...

[DomNF15]

I don't want to sound condescending or anything - but do you know your electrical well? If I put a 0.25 Amp fuse in an outlet that I normally use for a lamp and then decide to plug in an 8.0 Amp Vacuum cleaner the next week, then what? I either have to constantly fuck around with the fuse size in the outlet or remember never to use a high draw device there. This idea just seems stupid to me. And you don't put a GFCI at EVERY socket (outlet), you put it at the first outlet in the run, and the rest of the outlets downstream from there are all protected by the 1 GFCI outlet. Here's a crude diagram:

A----B----C----D----E

A = fuse box/circuit breaker box
B = GFCI outlet
C through E = normal outlets wired in parallel via the GFCI outlet B

Re:Just refreshed electrical in my US home...

[Anonymous Coward]

If the outlet comes flying out of the wall, you should really worry for the construction of your house.

Re:Just refreshed electrical in my US home...

[Anonymous Coward]

I am a master electrician. If your air conditioner does not have an equipment grounding conductor installed, it was installed improperly. If the neutral, "grounded conductor" in NEC speak, is bonded to the case of the equipment and is serving as an equipment grounding conductor, that is incorrect as well. It is probable that your unit requires 240 volts only and does not need a neutral, in which case you should have 2 hots (ungrounded conductors), 1 grounding conductor, and no neutral (grounded conductor).

Re:Just refreshed electrical in my US home...

[malkavian]

Actually, they're easy to pull out and put in (plugs are shaped to have good grasp).
Tripped over many, and never done damage to the wall sockets (they're put in pretty solidly).
After doing a fair bit of travelling round the world (China, Russia, Indonesia, USA, Italy, Germany, Spain, France etc.) I still prefer the solidity of the connection of the UK plugs. Not tried the Australian ones, Danish or Swiss yet.. Maybe I need to travel there again to check!

Re:Just refreshed electrical in my US home...

[Anonymous Coward]

the entire flippin outlet getting ripped out of the wall with it.

Fun fact: British buildings have actual walls, not card board pretend walls that apparently can't hold a socket in place.

Re:Just refreshed electrical in my US home...

[Gogogoch]

The fuse goes in the plug, not the socket/outlet.

Re:Just refreshed electrical in my US home...

[Rising Ape]

You could conceivably have a fault which would draw a dangerously large current for the cable but not enough to actually blow the fuse/trip the breaker. For example, 10 amps through your normally 0.25 amp cable, which would lead to overheating and could start a fire. A small fuse in the plug would prevent this.

Granted, I don't think that kind of fault is terribly likely, but it's plausible.

Re:Just refreshed electrical in my US home...

[Rising Ape]

In the case of my house, the sockets are all on an RCD and the lights aren't.

The RCD covers 6 circuits or so, with an over-current circuit breaker per circuit. Lights are separate and protected by over-current circuit breakers only. IIRC, new installations do protect the lights this way but on a separate RCD to avoid the problem you mentioned.

Re:Just refreshed electrical in my US home...

[confused one]

The fuse isn't a substitute for GFCI or AFCI. It's there because in the UK they run one 230V 30A ring circuit and put the onus for circuit protection in the plug. They do not run separate circuits for each room (or in some cases each outlet) to the main panel like we do in the U.S. By the way, fuses are better than circuit breakers because the act faster.

That A/C is either wired out wrong or what you are calling a neutral is a case ground. If there is return current on the neutral (which is what makes it a neutral) then it was definitely wired wrong and you need to get an electrician out there to redo it.

Re:Just refreshed electrical in my US home...

[petermgreen]

and have to almost guarantee that tripping/yanking on a wire will result in the entire flippin outlet getting ripped out of the wall with it.
I live in the UK and can tell you this is incorrect, usually the plug pops out without damaging anything, very occasionally plug or socket may be damaged. I don't think i've ever seen one ripped out of the wall.

Re:Just refreshed electrical in my US home...

[smoker2]

There are at least two circuits in the UK. You have a ring main which feeds the lighting circuit and separate runs for power sockets. The ring main is only 15A IIRC. If you are wiring in a new light switch dropping from a junction box on the ring main, what comes in to the switch on the live wire leaves the switch on the neutral wire. After it's been through the light itself, it rejoins the neutral circuit. The earth is just a straight feed. And the onus is not on the plug, all recent buildings (last 30 years) have RCD built into what used to be called the fuse panel. The fuse in the plug is a separate item for the devices protection, not the humans. I don't think even a 3A fuse would help if you shorted wires with your tongue.

Re:Just refreshed electrical in my US home...

[Blakey Rat]

My house is from 1927. I have every US example in that article somewhere in my house... hell, in my basement I have live cloth-insulated wires, that's fun. (Or cloth not-insulated-anymore wires, since that cloth insulation rots off in 80 years, whoda thunk it.)

Anyway, I had an electrician come in to put in a dedicated circuit for my computer setup, add a few more outlets in the kitchen, and add an outlet for my shaver in the bathroom. He was pretty impressed. He had to tear out a lot of the older stuff because of newer standards, but he didn't touch anything he didn't have to by law. So I still have cloth-insulated live wires in the basement.

IIRC, my kitchen circuit goes through a 30 amp fuse box (the well-designed kind you could jam with pennies), and then into a 20 amp breaker in the basement.

Completely unrelated point: why are breaker boxes always put in the darkest corners of the house? Does it never occur to electricians that we might need to get to the breaker box WITH THE LIGHTS OFF!?

Re:Just refreshed electrical in my US home...

[xaxa]

Because the UK plug takes the cable down along the wall, rather than sticking out of it, you can't pull a plug out by the cable. This is a safety feature, it avoids having plugs half plugged-in.

It also means you're less likely to trip, as the wire is against the wall/floor from the start. It's obviously still possible to trip over wires, but you're most likely to pull your appliance off the table or whatever... sockets are very securely fixed into the wall.

Re:Just refreshed electrical in my US home...

[Anonymous Coward]

I've rewired a UK lighting circuit - in fact, an entire house, including consumer unit** - (following regulations, inspected, passed etc.) and this
You have a ring main which feeds the lighting circuit

Is just plain wrong. The lighting circuit is not a ring, it doesn't have a return path (in the ring main sense, not in the live/neutral sense), it just ends at the 'last' light. Rings are only used in 30A ring mains for 13A sockets.
The most common UK lighting circuit is the 'loop-in' type, described here:
http://www.ultimatehandyman.co.uk/lighting_circuits.htm
The above link also describes the junction box method which is common in older installations.
None of the methods described involve a ring in the 'ring main' sense.

Your remark about 15A is also wrong. While indivdually supplied spurs can be 15A, power ring mains are always 30A (each end of the ring is typically connected to a *seperate* 15A fuse at the consumer unit giving a ring main maximum load of 2x15A). Lighting circuits, which as per above are not rings, are typically connected to a single 5A fuse at the consumer unit, and in a 'normal' house there is one lighting circuit for downstairs and one for upstairs.
Obviously there are other things like power showers and electric cookers which have their own circuits as well.

I suppose you *could* make the lighting circuit into a ring if you needed to put a *large* number of lights on it but this would be non-standard and probably against regulations (not because it's dangerous per se but because with it being non-standard, if you assumed it was not a ring and 'isolated' part of the circuit, it would still be connected at the other end and live.)

BTW That's not to say you can't run lights off the 30A ring main (e.g. wall lights via a fused switch) but that doesn't make it a lighting circuit!

No offence intended, but I suggest you leave wiring (and comments about wiring!) to people with more knowledge, or study the subject more carefully.

** Wiring entire house: Yes, it would probably be illegal for me to do this *now* under the new regs (not sure, haven't studied them) as I'm not 'qualified' but when I did this in 1986 it was perfectly legal as long as the electricity board (as it was then) inspected it, passed it, and made the final connection from the consumer unit to their fuses/meter. I did it with reference to appropriate official docs, and help from my Dad who had been doing DIY wiring for 40 years and is a stickler for safety and 'doing it right'.

This is so true - the UK plug is ridiculous

[name_already_taken]

I was going to just copy and paste in my older post titled "The UK plug is the nanny state run wild", but I can't find the damned thing.

The simple fact of the matter is that the pins on the US plug are so short that by the point it is far enough out of the socket to expose enough of the pins to touch them with your fingers, it's unplugged. No partially insulated pins or other wacky design contrivances are needed.

The UK plug appears to have originally been designed by someone who was laboring under the misunderstanding that they were designing a connector for welding equipment, not domestic appliances. It can safely carry 100A of current, if you replace the fuse with a solid link. Why? The plug contains a maximum 13A fuse and the ring main circuit in a UK home is limited to about 40A if I remember correctly. Why a 100A connector when it can only ever be supplied with 40A?

Shutters on the sockets are a very recent development in the US, and a probably just being copied from the UK for no other reason than shutter envy. There's no real demand for them, because Americans are somehow able to resist the temptation that apparently so often overcomes their British counterparts to stick things in the socket other than a plug.

When my family moved from the UK to the USA back in 1982, I thought the US plug was flimsy compared to the UK plugs I was used to. But, really, a Honda Civic looks flimsy compared to a Caterpillar bulldozer, but I know which one I'd buy to drive every day. (Yes, I have to get a car analogy in.)

A major advantage of the USA plug is that it's smaller - you can plug six appliances into a power strip and not have the power strip be the size of a house. If you have a laptop bag, the USA plug isn't some great big lump in the bag. The US plug is designed for its intended use, not designed to be safe even if being used by newborn babies to plug in their industrial welding equipment.

You might say, well, the US plug can't carry as much current for heavy loads. It's true that you can't get as much power through a single US plug as you can through a UK 13A plug, but that's because the voltage is higher. The US plug can carry 15A at 125V all day long. My wire feed welder works just fine plugged into a normal US 15A outlet - the plug doesn't even get warm.

Re:This is so true - the UK plug is ridiculous

[1s44c]

I was going to just copy and paste in my older post titled "The UK plug is the nanny state run wild", but I can't find the damned thing.

That doesn't make sense. The design and common usage of these plugs far predates the nanny state.

I don't think the state ever dictated what model of plug is allowed to become common in any case.

Re:This is so true - the UK plug is ridiculous

[Again]

Shutters on the sockets are a very recent development in the US, and a probably just being copied from the UK for no other reason than shutter envy. There's no real demand for them, because Americans are somehow able to resist the temptation that apparently so often overcomes their British counterparts to stick things in the socket other than a plug.

When I was a kid I would take apart my radio control cars with little lights, attach the lights to thin little wires and stick the end of the wires into the plug in my room for a cool light show. My parents never knew why the plug in my room was all black. I was never able to resist the temptation to stick things in the plug. I don't know why I'm still alive.

...and now I'm staring at the plug that my computer is plugged into and wondering if I have anything cool to stick into there... Hmm... Cell phone charger? Backwards? How about old headphones... if I cut off the end and stripped the wires... Would any noise come out? I probably wouldn't want to hold it close to my ear to find out. But I already know that it would look cool.

Re:This is so true - the UK plug is ridiculous

[Rising Ape]

The simple fact of the matter is that the pins on the US plug are so short that by the point it is far enough out of the socket to expose enough of the pins to touch them with your fingers, it's unplugged. No partially insulated pins or other wacky design contrivances are needed.

But is this true for a child's fingers?

Insulating part of the pins is simple, obvious and effective - hardly a "wacky design contrivance". Why *wouldn't* you do it?

Re:This is so true - the UK plug is ridiculous

[IamTheRealMike]

Americans are somehow able to resist the temptation that apparently so often overcomes their British counterparts to stick things in the socket other than a plug.

Children.

Re:This is so true - the UK plug is ridiculous

[ChaosDiscord]

The simple fact of the matter is that the pins on the US plug are so short that by the point it is far enough out of the socket to expose enough of the pins to touch them with your fingers, it's unplugged.

That may be the goal, but I can assure you it's possible to give yourself a shock if you're sloppy and wrap your fingers over the plug while removing it. I can say this from personal experience. The plug in question was not especially long or otherwise unusual. The socket was in an apartment build around 2000, so it should reasonably have been modern and standard.

Re:This is so true - the UK plug is ridiculous

[apoc.famine]

You are wrong about the pin-length being such that you can't make contact when it's partially plugged in. I'm (still) living proof that you can. (One issue is that pin length isn't always standardized appliance to appliance.) I once was working a lab with a multi-outlet strip, and I tried to unplug it with latex gloves on. The glove caused me to slip while unplugging it, and I managed to get it partially out. Reached while looking down at chemicals to make sure I didn't spill anything, and touched the hot pin.
 
Really, our plugs are good for what they're designed to do:
 
a) Be unplugged and plugged in repeatedly. They need to be simple, rugged, and have no moving parts for this.
b) Be safe enough. Not totally safe, but safe enough that there's an issue less than 1/10,000 times they are used.
 
From those standpoints, most plugs in the world qualify. Because if they didn't they'd have been tossed out already. While I'd love to see a single design world-wide, we as humans are so patriotic about everything to do with our personal countries it's unlikely to ever happen.

Re:This is so true - the UK plug is ridiculous

[Anonymous Coward]

The UK plug appears to have originally been designed by someone who was laboring under the misunderstanding that they were designing a connector for welding equipment, not domestic appliances. It can safely carry 100A of current, if you replace the fuse with a solid link. Why? The plug contains a maximum 13A fuse and the ring main circuit in a UK home is limited to about 40A if I remember correctly. Why a 100A connector when it can only ever be supplied with 40A?

I think the more likely explanation was it was designed by someone with an irrational fear of being electrocuted or starting an electrical fire. 0.001% chance of plug related injury or damage was apparently just too much for them to tolerate; I suspect the original design specified quadruple insulation on the cords and plugs, plus that woven-metal conduit around the cords, but got shot down for price concerns.

Re:This is so true - the UK plug is ridiculous

[CODiNE]

The simple fact of the matter is that the pins on the US plug are so short that by the point it is far enough out of the socket to expose enough of the pins to touch them with your fingers, it's unplugged.

Not to be all "Think of the children!" or anything... just pointing out that when I was about 7 I had a really awesome Spiderman night light... and also one shaped like an icecream cone... but anyways when I plugged it in myself one night I was touching part of the plug with my fingertip and got quite a bzzzzaaaap. Threw me against the wall. It's true that the prongs on US plugs are short but it's not impossible to be touching them while plugging in, especially if you have small fingers.

Re:This is so true - the UK plug is ridiculous

[wiredlogic]

FWIW the US also has a 20A receptacle with one blade rotated 90 degrees as a key. It's rarely used because there are few applications that need that current at the lower voltage. The 15A receptacles and heavier duty 15A rated plugs (not the cheap sheet metal ones) are the same construction and can readily handle 20A as well. In the case of 120V welders it is advisable to connect them to 20A circuits to minimize wire heating regardless of the type of receptacle in place. The receptacle isn't what you should be worried about.

Re:This is so true - the UK plug is ridiculous

[Lord Ender]

The simple fact of the matter is that the pins on the US plug are so short that by the point it is far enough out of the socket to expose enough of the pins to touch them with your fingers, it's unplugged.

I have shocked the everlovingshit out of myself while plugging in a US plug. I was a child. I was doing it wrong, but your statement is still false.

Re:This is so true - the UK plug is ridiculous

[kestasjk]

I think you might be over-thinking this whole "plug" thing..

Re:This is so true - the UK plug is ridiculous

[sjf]

Nope, it was designed in a time when there were not many appliances, and those that existed had much higher current draws that they typically do today.
Note, there was at a time a much smaller alternative British plug used for lamps...i.e. lower current devices. ("Type D 2A")
If the only things you are likely to be plugging in are 12 or 15amp beasts, then the British plug is a pretty good design. Doubtless it is overdesigned for our solid state low current devices, but they didn't exist when this plug was designed.

Re:This is so true - the UK plug is ridiculous

[izomiac]

The simple fact of the matter is that the pins on the US plug are so short that by the point it is far enough out of the socket to expose enough of the pins to touch them with your fingers, it's unplugged. No partially insulated pins or other wacky design contrivances are needed.

A US plug can stick out a few mm and still work. That's not enough to touch your finger to, but it's still somewhat dangerous. I once saw a fire in a dorm room start when a guy was sweeping (military school) and swept some kind of bare wire coming out of the radiator across some exposed plugs on a surge protector. It was more funny than anything since the broom was the only flammable thing around. Kind of an odd situation but I try to make sure my stuff is plugged in all the way (difficult with heavy wall warts).

OTOH, I don't think it's really a problem since it basically requires a thin strip of uninsulated metal to become dangerous. Smaller outlets are indeed preferable as far as I'm concerned. I just wish we'd go ahead and switch to DC for normal outlets and leave AC for stuff like appliances and powerlines.

Of course, given that apparently some British folk thought people might do this, I can see why they'd want an idiot proof outlet.

Re:This is so true - the UK plug is ridiculous

[Roger W Moore]

The simple fact of the matter is that the pins on the US plug are so short that by the point it is far enough out of the socket to expose enough of the pins to touch them with your fingers

Unless you are a kid with small fingers. Plus the short length means less contact area which can lead to considerable heating, even to the point where the plug melts. Ihave had this happen on more than on occassion when plugging things in in hotel rooms in the US and Canada because the plug socket had bad contacts. Never had that happen in the UK, ever.

Shutters on the sockets are a very recent development in the US, and a probably just being copied from the UK for no other reason than shutter envy.

Shutters are not new in the UK - they have been common since at least the 1970's.

A major advantage of the USA plug is that it's smaller

True - like most things safety features have to have a trade-off and in this case it is size. So how many lives is the convenience of a smaller plug worth to you?

Re:This is so true - the UK plug is ridiculous

[damburger]

Anyone who uses the phrase 'nanny state/political correctness/health and safety run wild' is an irredeemable cretin - and even worse, probably reads the Daily Mail of the Daily Express.

Why is it unacceptable to put large safety margins into a device, when doing so only costs pennies? As for concocting some bullshit theory about the 'nanny state' - would you rather trust some Chinese sweatshop to dictate electrical safety standards, simply because it is party of the private sector?

Re:This is so true - the UK plug is ridiculous

[damburger]

You are implying the engineer(s) who design this plug were irrational because they made different design choices from you? What is wrong with you, can you not discuss differences in design philosophy without dismissing anybody daring to disagree with you, the oracle of all engineering, as some kind of hysterical crank?

Also, you fail at maths. If there was a 0.001% chance of an injury, lets say per person per year, there would be 500 such injuries annually in the UK. Which could be prevented by a pennies worth of plastic in each device. Is this too much of a price concern for you, or are you one of those libertarians?

Re:This is so true - the UK plug is ridiculous

[Anonymous Coward]

The simple fact of the matter is that the pins on the US plug are so short that by the point it is far enough out of the socket to expose enough of the pins to touch them with your fingers, it's unplugged. No partially insulated pins or other wacky design contrivances are needed.

Not true. I managed to do it once as a kid trying to unplug something. It was only partially plugged in, and when I reached out to grab it, I got a tingling sensation as my finger connected the two prongs together.

Re:This is so true - the UK plug is ridiculous

[BikeHelmet]

Another perk: Touching a US power prong partly into the wall probably won't kill you.

Re:This is so true - the UK plug is ridiculous

[clone53421]

If you take a few inches of the super-fine wire that's found in the coils of small speakers (close to hair-thickness) and scrape enough of the insulation off to make decent contact, you can wrap about two turns of it around the pins on a standard US plug. Almost invisible, even if you look, but when you plug it in it goes off like a firecracker – a bang and a bright flash. Best part is, the wire vaporizes, so other than perhaps a bit of black reside there's nothing left to indicate what just happened...

P.S. Not responsible for stupid people trying this and managing to somehow hurt themselves in what should be a simple and relatively non-dangerous process.

Re:This is so true - the UK plug is ridiculous

[DerekLyons]

You might say, well, the US plug can't carry as much current for heavy loads. It's true that you can't get as much power through a single US plug as you can through a UK 13A plug, but that's because the voltage is higher. The US plug can carry 15A at 125V all day long. My wire feed welder works just fine plugged into a normal US 15A outlet - the plug doesn't even get warm.

I was about to say much the same thing - what they hell are the Brits plugging in that they need so much current? My woodshop has nothing but 110V [pro am level] equipment, and I have no problem whatsoever.

Re:This is so true - the UK plug is ridiculous

[lgw]

The UK mandated the current plug by act of parliament. In the US the range of allowed plugs is dictated by the National Electric Code, but that's very forgiving of older instalations, and the driving force for modernization of older houses seems to be mortgage companies fearing liability lawsuits.

The state is and should be involved in standardizing infrastructure. The choice of plug might be derided as nanny-state-ism, but not the existance of a standard.

Re:This is so true - the UK plug is ridiculous

[Anonymous Coward]

A major advantage of the USA plug is that it's smaller - you can plug six appliances into a power strip and not have the power strip be the size of a house.

The US plugs (at least the grounded ones) are still unnecessary large. Better yet are the ones we use in Chile (I think they are known as the italian model, type L in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_power_plugs_and_sockets#Types_in_present_use), you can fit a lot of them in a smaller space, they're grounded, and the pins are covered in plastic so they're much safer (think of the childen!)

Re:This is so true - the UK plug is ridiculous

[operagost]

Anyone who uses the phrase 'nanny state/political correctness/health and safety run wild' is an irredeemable cretin

Personal attack.

As for concocting some bullshit theory about the 'nanny state' - would you rather trust some Chinese sweatshop to dictate electrical safety standards, simply because it is party of the private sector?

Straw man, and false dilemma. Thanks for playing.

Re:This is so true - the UK plug is ridiculous

[Anonymous Coward]

And unless you were an exceptionally dim child, I suspect that was also the _last_ time you did that.

Re:This is so true - the UK plug is ridiculous

[Anonymous Coward]

So how many lives is the convenience of a smaller plug worth to you?

From wikipedia:

There were 550 electrocutions in the US in 1993, which translates to 2.1 deaths per million inhabitants. At that time, the incidence of electrocutions was decreasing. Electrocutions in the workplace make up the majority of these fatalities. From 1980-1992, an average of 411 workers were killed each year by electrocution.

Roughly 2 per million for all causes, including work-related high voltage scenarios and other causes distinct from 110v plug/outlet problems. If we could find statistics on deaths specifically restricted to 110v plug mishaps, the number undoubtedly will be much lower. It's hard to die from a 110v outlet accident, even for a child; most people just experience strong discomfort. I feel this is an entirely reasonable level of risk. Do you wear a crash helmet wherever you go? How about Kevlar?

- T

Re:This is so true - the UK plug is ridiculous

[damburger]

Wow, someone got a dictionary of logical fallacies for Christmas didn't they! How cute that you presume to pick me up on supposed instances of them.

Ad hominem (thats what us grow ups call a 'personal attack) only applies if an attack is part of your argument. If it isn't, it is logically irrelevant and just included to poke fun at those who deserve it.

As for the laughable claim of a strawman, its up to the one who presented his argument to claim I misrepresented it, not some pre-pubescent thread sniper whose got the notion he is intelligent and capable of taking part in a grown up debate.

Re:This is so true - the UK plug is ridiculous

[HornWumpus]

Have you seen many English women?

They are plugging in _heavy_ duty vibrators.

Re:This is so true - the UK plug is ridiculous

[Marcika]

Have you seen many English women?

They are plugging in _heavy_ duty vibrators.

You might think that, but actually there are simply no heavy-duty vibrators available for 240V outlets - if you want to use a Hitachi Magic Wand in Europe, you need to get the US version with a transformer! (I don't want to imply anything about the needs of American women here, but...)

Re:This is so true - the UK plug is ridiculous

[Marcika]

I was about to say much the same thing - what they hell are the Brits plugging in that they need so much current?

Hot water kettles for a nice cup of tea. 3000 watt, so it boils before the end of your tea break. (Yes, American 1kW or 1.5kW kettles are insufficient.)

Re:This is so true - the UK plug is ridiculous

[jabuzz]

A small child could happily electrocute themselves from a partially inserted US plug.

Re:This is so true - the UK plug is ridiculous

[jabuzz]

Shuttered outlets have been part of BS1363 from day one.

Sleeving on the live and neutral pins did not become mandatory till the late 1980's, though MK plugs have been sleeved for much longer.

Re:This is so true - the UK plug is ridiculous

[Anonymous Coward]

I didn't mean to imply that the engineers were irrational. To me, it looks like something that was designed by a committee of politicians with little understanding of the actual versus perceived dangers of electricity, not engineers. It's designed to eliminate problems that in practice are extremely rare to begin with, and is significantly bulkier than it could be. Not an example of good engineering, IMHO. The US one isn't that great either, but I think it's more practical. Of course, neither standard is going anywhere anytime soon, since they've both proved to work well enough in practice.

And yes, I pulled that number out of my ass. Thanks for pointing that out. I still believe the US plug is safe enough for what it's used for, and the UK one is overkill for everything but large appliances, although as the other commenter pointed out it did make more sense back when it was introduced.

Re:This is so true - the UK plug is ridiculous

[registrar]

Shutters on the sockets are a very recent development in the US, and a probably just being copied from the UK for no other reason than shutter envy. There's no real demand for them, because Americans are somehow able to resist the temptation that apparently so often overcomes their British counterparts to stick things in the socket other than a plug.

British holes are kind of a bigger target.

Re:This is so true - the UK plug is ridiculous

[spauldo]

If children never stick their fingers in a plug and get shocked, how will they learn to respect electricity?

It sure worked for me, when I was kid. 110 volts won't (in the vast majority of cases) harm you, but it gets your attention.

Re:This is so true - the UK plug is ridiculous

[Anonymous Coward]

If children never stick their fingers in a plug and get shocked, how will they learn to respect electricity?

It sure worked for me, when I was kid. 110 volts won't (in the vast majority of cases) harm you, but it gets your attention.

Hah, that's easy, the same way I did, at the age of four, foiled in my attempts to gain respect for electricity by ultra-safe British plugs I removed a light bulb from a bedside light and stuck my finger in the socket. 240V stings like a bastard.

Re:This is so true - the UK plug is ridiculous

[IgePanda]

But is this true for a child's fingers?

Insulating part of the pins is simple, obvious and effective - hardly a "wacky design contrivance". Why *wouldn't* you do it?

It's easily enough to try. Get your average pencil and see if you can jam it into a US outlet and make contact. Can you? No? Okay then

While there are issues with US plugs, it would be impossible for even a newborn to jam their finger into a live or neutral socket, let alone a walking toddler. What is an issue is a children is jamming a paper clip, or keys into an outlet. Shutters are a decent enough idea

Re:This is so true - the UK plug is ridiculous

[slim]

I think the point is that you don't have dual standards for high wattage appliances and "everything else".

So a standard UK socket will always have enough oomph to power a tumble drier, an electric oven, heaters etc.

Plus as someone else has obseved, Britons find it important to be able to boil a litre of water quickly.

Re:This is so true - the UK plug is ridiculous

[DerekLyons]

I think the point is that you don't have dual standards for high wattage appliances and "everything else". So a standard UK socket will always have enough oomph to power a tumble drier, an electric oven, heaters etc.

Well, I'll give you that. If I ever need to power a dryer or oven in my bedroom, I'll curse the fates that I'm not British. (And then go use the proper plugs provided in the locations for those appliances. IOW, your answer makes no sense.) As far as a heater goes, again - 110V works just fine. (And I live in a climate virtually identical to the UK's.)

Re:This is so true - the UK plug is ridiculous

[slim]

But why the overhead of having two standards, when one size could fit all?

I bet you wouldn't countenance a third US standard, so you had one socket for low wattage devices like phone chargers, and another for things like hairdriers? So why does two make sense?

Full-on portable electric heaters are getting rarer now, since gas central heating is cheaper. But we used to have a 3 bar fire with a convection heater attached. So that's over 3KW, which would be 30amps on a US supply.

What's wrong with a system where you don't have to *think* about whether a given socket works with a given appliance?

Re:This is so true - the UK plug is ridiculous

[DerekLyons]

What's wrong with a system where you don't have to *think* about whether a given socket works with a given appliance?

I don't have to really think about whether a given socket works with a given appliance even under our 'two standard' system. Where a high voltage appliance will be placed, a high voltage outlet is provided and plainly different from the lower voltage outlets. No significant thinking needed, put the appliance in the provided place and plug into the appropriate outlet.
 
The only place I need to apply significant thinking is my wood shop - but in having one in the first place, I'm an outlier. And I really only have to think because the garage wasn't wired for being a workshop in the first place. That'll be fixed next spring when I remodel it and fix other deficiencies caused by me using it for a purpose it wasn't built for.
 
As far as heaters go, you've created a circular definition... "We have high voltage outlets, therefore we have high capacity heaters. And since we have high capacity heaters, we have to have high voltage outlets". You can heat a house perfectly adequately using 110v, and I have done so.

Re:This is so true - the UK plug is ridiculous

[slim]

Where a high voltage appliance will be placed, a high voltage outlet is provided and plainly different from the lower voltage outlets. No significant thinking needed.

That's more than 'no thinking'. Actually my experience while in countries with a dual standard is usually more frustrating when wanting to plug in a low voltage appliance. "I'll just plug my laptop in here to charge... oh bollocks, it's the wrong shape socket."

You never, ever get that in the UK (unless you're in a very specialised environment such as a theatre with a 3-phase supply, or a high-spec server room).

Re:This is so true - the UK plug is ridiculous

[DerekLyons]

Where a high voltage appliance will be placed, a high voltage outlet is provided and plainly different from the lower voltage outlets. No significant thinking needed.

That's more than 'no thinking'. Actually my experience while in countries with a dual standard is usually more frustrating when wanting to plug in a low voltage appliance. "I'll just plug my laptop in here to charge... oh bollocks, it's the wrong shape socket."

In other words, having to think for about 2 seconds amounts to a major deficiency to the standard in your estimation... Or, to put it less kindly - having been shown to be in error, you are now reduced to nitpicking.
 
You're also reduced to arguing from ignorance. The example you cite is unlikely in the extreme to occur in the US because the number of high voltage outlets provided is low, and they are in places where you aren't likely to plug in a laptop anyhow. (Not to mention that despite that, there is almost invariably there is a low voltage plug handy anyhow.)

Re:This is so true - the UK plug is ridiculous

[Cederic]

My 40yo house only has two plug sockets in the main bedroom and one in the third bedroom. I have approximately 16 devices permanently plugged into those three sockets.

Sure, no individual appliance is drawing 13A, but add them all together...

Re:This is so true - the UK plug is ridiculous

[DerekLyons]

Which means you have a house forty years old, so what? English or American, no forty year old house is wired to modern standards.

Re:This is so true - the UK plug is ridiculous

[Cederic]

Fuck me. You ask what Brits are plugging in, I answer and you ask 'so what?'

Go away.

One vote for AUS/NZ Plug

[dafing]

for aesthetic reasons alone, in my nuclear free country, we use a plug/outlet design that looks like "The Nuclear Symbol" :P http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AS_3112

Re:One vote for AUS/NZ Plug

[chibiace]

yes our plug really is quite good, your not going to get phase and neutral the wrong way around with these without a hammer.

i find the two streight pin ones from the united states are good for say my camera charger which has a very small light plug. but ive used one with a huge ac/dc brick on it which kept falling out of the socket.

and the british one is huge and clunky.

but my favorite is those screw on 4 phase plugs for businesses yeah.

The best plug...

[igaborf]

...is the one that fits the socket on the wall in front of me.

Re:Really?

[Chris Burke]

It's a single UK standard plug and that's it and has been since I can remember (I'm 40).

Which is the age where the memory really starts to go, thus explaining why you can't remember that it was last week. ;)

Re:Really?

[1s44c]

Stuff hasn't come with just bare wires for ages. I hesitate to suggest an actual number of years, because someone will come along and prove to me that there's one appliance left that still comes with bare wires for some odd reason or another, but I'll stick my neck out and say it's been well over a decade!

I think it's 15 to 20 years. I'm sure it was made illegal to sell domestic appliances without a plug. Manufactures used to sell things without plugs to cut costs and improve profits. The shops didn't mind because wiring plugs was a nice easy money spinner for them.

Even then plugs were totally standard the GP's claims that unwired plugs were due to there being a number of different plugs to choose from is total bull.

Re:Really?

[Anonymous Coward]

The US has this issue with appliances. Any 240VAC appliance will have bare wires where you have to wire up the cord to, because of two different standards. Three pronged appliances would have two hot and one neutral. Come 1996, all houses built then or after come with 4 prong outlets (two hots, one neutral, one ground). Mainly because grounds are an important safety feature. This is becoming more and more important especially nowadays. Due to a race to the bottom for cheapness, almost all products are sold with the absolute lowest materials and workmanship that can be gotten away with, so there is a higher chance of a short in a lot of modern appliances that without a ground would energize the case, causing electrocution.

Europlug sockets is the best

[Kjella]

Not the big ones, the small ones. You rarely see them as wall sockets, but for example behind my computer (pc, screen, speakers, router, external hdd etc.) it's great with mixed big/small sockets. Same behind the tv/pvr/stereo section, or indeed any place you have many low-power gadgets. Always using the big three-pronged contacts or fullsize europlug is a big, overengineered waste of space and money.

Re:Europlug sockets is the best

[Yeti.SSM]

The europlug is only for Class II (double-insulation) devices up to 2.5 A. It's perfect for things like bedside lamps or wall warts.
If you need more than 2.5 A and still have a Class II device, you may use the CEE 7/17 plug. Fits both Schuko and type E sockets. A rectangular variation of this type (usually found on power tools like drills) is still quite small and durable.
For the rest of appliances, there's this CEE 7/7 E/F hybrid plug.

I'm glad all this plugs fit both Schuko and type E sockets so you can use your gadgets around Europe (okay, *central* Europe) easily.

No, including non-earthed sockets was quite unfair

[sirwired]

Yes, many homes have non-earthed sockets. And they are all quite old homes, as those have not been up to code (meaning, not eligible for use in new construction) for decades. And I'm pretty sure if you find light-socket to 3-prong adapters, they most certainly are not UL listed, and not up to code. Plug in 2 to 3 prong adapters are designed to be attached to the socket mounting screw, which is supposed to be grounded.

Oh, and there are plenty of UK homes with 2-prong outlets also.

And I'm not seeing big problems with no shutters or non-insulated live pins.

Also, you have high-current branch circuits, which can have safety problems all their own.

SirWired

I like the UK plugs

[PPH]

And I'm in the USA. OK, they could be a bit smaller. I've got a fused US (NEMA 5-15) plug that's no bigger than the unfused variety. So its possible. The receptacle shutters over the current carrying contacts are a nice idea, as is the insulated sleeve over the base of the plug blades.

The biggest advantage I've seen with the UK plugs is their orientation. Ground prong up. While this can be solved with the US version by mounting receptacles upside down. Many construction specs are starting to require this, particularly in health care facilities. But it screws up wall warts, which are designed to let the LV cord hang down in the 'ground pin down' configuration. I'm not certain if this is UK code, but every UK plug I've seen has the cord emerging from the (bottom) side of the plug. This prevents the cord from being pinched when someone slides a piece of furniture against it. I've seen a few fires and numerous damaged cord caused by this practice. Its possible to obtain US plugs in this configuration, but they are rare. It wouldn't do us much good anyway, as we have most of our receptacles the wrong way around anyway.

Re:I like the UK plugs

[sych]

I'm not sure why you say the earth pin being on top or bottom matters.

It wouldn't do us much good anyway, as we have most of our receptacles the wrong way around anyway.

Surely if most sockets have the earth pin on the bottom, then you could make the plug (or wall-wart) so that the cord comes out at that end, and still have plugs that sit against the wall like the UK ones? What is it that I'm missing?

Contrary to the picture shown in TFA, Australian plugs are orientated so that the earth pin is at the bottom (their picture is upside-down). Both flush-fitting (cord out the bottom) and standard (cord coming straight out) plugs are readily available.

(Interestingly, China adopted the Australian plug as their national standard a few years ago... but they turned it up-side down so that earth *is* on the top - I have no idea why!)

Re:I like the UK plugs

[PPH]

I'm not sure why you say the earth pin being on top or bottom matters.

Because objects that fall, sliding along the wall, will contact the ground pin first if it is at the top. Oherwise (the traditional way we moun them) there's a decent change that the hot blade will be contacted first.

I've seen a few people lose control of steel measuring tapes and have them slide behind a plug, knocking some poor carpenter on his ass.

Re:I like the UK plugs

[sych]

Great, that's not a bad reason at all. That must be why China flipped it upside-down when they adopted it.

Doesn't really matter anyways...

[PerfectionLost]

The first thing I do when I land in a foreign nation is strip all my plugs and jam the bare wires in the outlet.

Re:Doesn't really matter anyways...

[slimjim8094]

Hah! With a UK socket, you can't do that!

UK 1 : Everybody else 0

Re:Doesn't really matter anyways...

[PerfectionLost]

You are apparently not familiar with American ingenuity. = )

Re:Doesn't really matter anyways...

[petermgreen]

on most uk sockets a screwdriver in the earth pin.

I don't know of anyone who has managed to open the MK "3 pin operated shutters" without inserting a plug

P.S. just in case anyone is stupid enough to be taking this seriously stuffing bare wires into sockets is dangerous.

What a BOGUS article

[WindBourne]

They are comparing American tech from nearly 50 years ago, to UK current tech. Amazing. The double bladed American that they looked IS around, BUT, none of the homes built after early 1960s are allowed to use. ALL have the double blade, with a single pin (ground or earth). Whats more, since the 70's, America does not use fuses. We use Circuit Breakers, and since the mid 80's have required GFCI on all our lines. Screw the SLOW BURNING FUSE that allows a heck of a charge before blowing. I have to say that I prefer the gfci/cb approach since it is much faster acting and always assured

Re:What a BOGUS article

[Simmeh]

They are comparing American tech from nearly 50 years ago, to UK current tech. Amazing.

what? They are comparing 50 year old American tech to 50 year old UK tech. They still win.

Re:What a BOGUS article

[jimicus]

UK current tech on the plugs hasn't changed much in 50 years. The only significant difference is the partial insulation on the prongs.

Though the legislation regarding the wiring circuit in the building itself has changed quite a bit.

Re:What a BOGUS article

[jo_ham]

That "current UK tech" *is* from 50 years ago - that's how our plugs have been for a very long time - since 1946 in fact. So 63 years.

We also have RCDs on our circuits in addition to fuses - Even the ancient house I live in has an RCD protecting the mains sockets and the light circuits.

Re:What a BOGUS article

[kriston]

GFCI on all lines? Not really. On unfinished basements, bathrooms, outdoors, and in garages, sure, but not every line.

Re:What a BOGUS article

[MattBurke]

~10 years ago I lived in a house in Cardiff which still used fuse wire instead of breakers, so I think there's still probably a few out there...

Re:What a BOGUS article

[xaxa]

My parents' house doesn't, I think it was rewired in the 1980s (the previous wiring was from 1910 or something). But maybe they will need to add them when they (I...) sell the house, but you can get RCDs that replace the old 30A fuses.

Re:What a BOGUS article

[petermgreen]

That "current UK tech" *is* from 50 years ago - that's how our plugs have been for a very long time - since 1946 in fact. So 63 years.
Note that while BS1363 is indeed that old the early versions didn't have pin insulation and I don't think shutters were mandatory when it was first introduced either (not sure on that though).

Re:What a BOGUS article

[Anonymous Coward]

All states require that any new or remodel construction have GFCIs on the lines (or be marked on special purpose lines; 20 amps in a garage, etc). It has been that way for 1-2 decades. Obviously, OLDER homes do not require it. In addition, anybody who does their own work can bypass it, BUT, they will be by-passing code and if ANYTHING happens to the building, it is likely that the insurance company will NOT pay (and these days, they use ANYTHING for an excuse to not pay)

A Killer app for UK sockets: Electric Kettles

[cshay]

One thing that Americans on their first visit to the UK are amazed at is the fact that electric kettles can boil water in about half the time as their American counterparts. The penalty for this convenience of course is that their sockets are huge and their cords are heavy duty, thick and heavy.

Re:A Killer app for UK sockets: Electric Kettles

[IgePanda]

One thing that Americans on their first visit to the UK are amazed at is the fact that electric kettles can boil water in about half the time as their American counterparts. The penalty for this convenience of course is that their sockets are huge and their cords are heavy duty, thick and heavy.

There is only partial truth to what you say. Yes, the reason it takes longer to use a tea kettle in the US is a voltage issue. You see, they are not popular items in the US. Chinese import tea pots for the US are using the same coils as their UK counterparts, which can easily be verified by an ohm meter. Thus they operate at lower wattage producing less heat.

Your average kettle burns about 1500 watts. Your average US kitchen is wired for 20 amp ciruits thus a 1920 watt (80% max) unit is perfectly acceptable, well, so long as you're not running much else on that circuit. You can get 2400 watt kettles, but they are quite spendy.

To be fair, there are 3000 watt kettles in the UK, which would exceed the 15A or 20A household wiring limitation of about 1800/2400 watts. But simply put, electric kettles are not popular in the US.

If you actually drink tea in the US, one viable option is a inline hot water dispenser attached to the sink.

Now we do have 230, but these are typically non accessible outlets limited to stoves and washers, maybe a dryer.

Re:A Killer app for UK sockets: Electric Kettles

[cshay]

I don't really understand your reply but it seems you are agreeing with me. Many kettles sold in the UK are 3000 Watt (see amazon.co.uk). The highest they typically go in the USA are 1500 watts, hence the ones in the UK are a lot faster to boil. If you read some Amazon reviews for American kettles you usually see Americans who are surprised and disappointed that their kettle takes so much longer than the one in their London hotel :)

Americans may not buy kettles as much as in the UK but their popularity is growing and they can be used for much more than tea. And again, for a first time vistor to the UK who is not aware of the difference in electric system, watching a big pot of water heat to a boil in a very short time is mystifying. I was very surprised the first time I witnessed that.

Re:A Killer app for UK sockets: Electric Kettles

[IgePanda]

I don't really understand your reply but it seems you are agreeing with me.

Not exactly. Typical UK kettle wattage isn't 3000, but those are available. The main issue is the fact that elements for US kettles are basically the same ones used for 240V systems, but are supplied 110 in the US.

To be clear, the reason it takes twice as long is because the same unit is being operated at half the voltage. They don't make many elements for US kettles because there isn't much demand for kettles.

Here's how it works, there are two basic types of outlets in US homes. You have your 15A/20A ones at 115V. You have your 230V 2 phase line. For typical devices 2400 watts and under you use 110V. For higher than 2400 watts, things like water heaters, dryers, you use 230.

If you need a kettle in the US rated at higher than 2400 watts, you could either run dedicated line using a NEMA 5-30 outlet, or you could use a your 230V stove outlet.

But for the most part, we don't use electric kettles in the US. Those interested in hot water on demand use dedicated spouts on the sink with their own water heater that dispense water at 160f to 190f .

If one needed a kettle in the US rated above 2400 watts, we'd use the stove outlet. But to be clear, there isn't enough demand.

Many kettles sold in the UK are 3000 Watt (see amazon.co.uk). The highest they typically go in the USA are 1500 watts,

Yes, the same element used in the UK is used in the US version. Get it? The same element that burns 3000watts at 230V burns 1500watts at 115V.

Understand? A US kettle is actually a UK kettle with a US plug with no other changes, thus operates at half the power. Get it?

The max practical kettle in the US, using your standard plug (well 20A plug) is about 2400watts. If you want more than 2400 watts, you would use larger plug like what you'd use for a freaking stove. Home are wired for this.

The british plug is the *worst*

[Balial]

I've used power plugs in a bunch of different countries. Most have their advantages and disadvantages. US is small, Australia it's clear which direction you plug it in, Europe has some good safety features... but the british plug has nothing going for it. It's big and ugly, and when you put two on the wall next to each other, you can't work out which way is up. The authors are retarded.

Re:The british plug is the *worst*

[Alphathon]

when you put two on the wall next to each other, you can't work out which way is up.

What on earth do you mean?

Re:The british plug is the *worst*

[qc_dk]

or British. (with a very capital B)

12V

[MrLint]

Id like to see some kinda standard for domestic DC. USB is common for chargers, but they all are wall warts for AC of some type.. Mebbe an outlet with 1 AC and 1 DC with an internal rectifier?

I cant see using USB for things like your TV of DVD player, so something a bit more robust might be in order.

Re:12V

[jonwil]

Maybe the answer is the car "cigarette lighter" standard (many gadgets can charge from one with an adapter including laptops, mobile phones and MP3 players)

Re:12V

[bill_mcgonigle]

I actually spent quite a bit of time looking into this recently and finally discovered that the HAM community has already got this figured out - the Powerpole connector.

I'm going to convert our automobiles over shortly, make or buy a few adapters in case we ever need to get a rental. I'm so sick of buying these 12V outlet multipliers that keep failing, popping out, etc. One saved traffic ticket from the RADAR detector not creeping out of contact and the project is paid for.

Anybody have a good reference for installing a new circuit in a car?

Re:12V

[drinkypoo]

Anybody have a good reference for installing a new circuit in a car?

If you need one, don't do it. But the short form is that the safest thing is to make a new home run to the battery for your hot lead with a fuse as near the battery as feasible, and you can pull a ground anywhere on the body.

Re:12V

[evilviper]

I cant see using USB for things like your TV of DVD player, so something a bit more robust might be in order.

1) Hook-up your multimeter and turn on your TV... Notice the voltage suddenly dropping a good 10 volts before coming back up? Not a big deal at 120/240V, but a 10V drop at 12V would be a hell of a thing.

2) Even car manufacturers have been trying for many years to get away from 12V DC because of the godawful huge wires needed, voltage drop, and overall lower power output. 42V DC is the next step. I'd rather go up an order of magnitude and get 120V, and convert down where necessary.

3) The conversion losses going from AC to DC is approximately 1.5%. A very, very, very tiny amount of power. You'll hardly notice.

In conclusion, there's good reason the world continues to use high voltage AC.

Re:12V

[Max Littlemore]

I lived in a house with both 240VAC and 12VDC. 12.5 volts at the batteries, 10.5 volts at the opposite end of the house. And that was with some seriously thick copper wiring. Voltage drop makes it so.

The only reason we had it set up like that was because we were energy self sufficient and the 240V was supplied by an inverter. Not the most efficient system.

Re:12V

[hardburn]

There's already the 48V Power over Ethernet standard, if you want that. Which you don't, unless you just want to run a few switches off of it. At 48V, line losses hurt badly, even over short runs. Bad enough that it's better to have an AC-DC converter at whatever machine needs DC power. Which is exactly what we have now.

Things start looking better when you get up to around 500V DC. But as far as computers go, you'll still need to step that down to internal voltages of the system (there are a lot, just look at the pinout voltages of an ATX motherboard connector sometime). So you might still end up with a 240V plug beating it out. Which the US does not have at the moment for general use, unless you've specifically setup your house like that yourself.

Re:12V

[MrLint]

Are you referring to the drop on a CRT TV? Going forward the technology that makes displays viable for the power on mobile devices will be prevalent in non mobile devices.

Yes there may be a good reason for relatively high voltage AC, but many of our modern devices aren't using raw AC anymore. What we have left are high draw things: motors/compressors, transformers, heating elements. So to over simplify, appliances.

Re:12V

[evilviper]

Are you referring to the drop on a CRT TV?

Anything that uses power. An LCD isn't vastly more efficient, it still draws half as much power as a CRT, and it certainly doesn't have any way to gently power-up (backlight is either off or on).

Anything and everything you power off the bus is going to cause substantial fluctuations in the line voltage, to the point that you really need to have a regulator in each device, and then you can just as easily run off of 42V DC. And yet you still need even higher voltage AC for most devices (appliances, lights, etc), so you gain next to nothing.

the technology that makes displays viable for the power on mobile devices will be prevalent in non mobile devices.

In a "mobile device" you have a very small circuit. It may be 20V at 2amp. No single device draws much power, AND everything is miniaturized to fit within a modest power envelope. Your nice big 36" TV isn't in the same class as your 12" notebook LCD.

Can't Have Both

[TheNinjaroach]

# Symmetrical. (i.e. you should be able to plug it in upside-down)
# The side that supplies the voltage should be the best shielded.

Many 110v appliances won't work with symmetrical-working plugs because they expect the voltage to always come in on one line and go out the other.

Re:Can't Have Both

[ak_hepcat]

Symmetry and polarization aren't enemies.

Look at a 1/4" stereo jack. Sleeve, ring, tip. -> ground, neutral, hot.

Re:Can't Have Both

[TheNinjaroach]

Ahh, interesting. I suppose you can plug those in normal, upside down, sideways or really an infinite number of positions and they still work.

Re:Can't Have Both

[Interoperable]

mmmmmm...rotational symmetry. Anything 24V or below usually does use that kind of design. They're probably easier to short unless very well thought out (the live and ground have to be damn close together); there may be a real safety issue for higher voltages.

Re:Can't Have Both

[robot256]

Not only are there safety issues with the voltages that close together, there are issues of arcing and dielectric breakdown. It would require a much more expensive plastic to make a 3.5mm audio jack that was rated to 120 volts.

Re:Can't Have Both

[MichaelSmith]

Symmetry and polarization aren't enemies.

Look at a 1/4" stereo jack. Sleeve, ring, tip. -> ground, neutral, hot.

It shorts on the way in and out. Thats why low voltage DC supply uses a different plug. But that type only supports two poles. You can't have earth and you can't have multiple phases.

Re:Can't Have Both

[Interoperable]

Well of course you want a good safety margin but 120V won't go through thin paint. You don't really have to worry about arcing.

Re:Can't Have Both

[clone53421]

That's just because it's designed that way. It's easy to envision a plug/socket that enables you to plug it in either way and still matches up the hot and neutral to the correct pin.

Say you made the hot pin slightly longer than the neutral pin. Both slots in the socket are neutral to begin. When you push the plug in, the longer pin pushes that slot to make the hot connection. As an added bonus, neither pin is hot if the plug isn't pushed in all the way, so you can't make inadvertent contact with live pins.

To ground it, just put two ground holes, one on top and the other on bottom.

USB plugs should be made this way, too, because it's damn irritating to always have to turn it over 3 times before it fits.

lame...

[Anonymous Coward]

When was the last time the writer saw a plug in the USA, 1940? All wall sockets in the USA have a ground plug, and a circut breaker in the house. Most of the things that use low current only have 2 prongs sure, but one of those prongs is bigger than the other, same with the wall sockets. They only fit one way.

Europlug and the stupid British socket

[A Friendly Troll]

Sorry, what?

http://crave.cnet.co.uk/gadgets/0,39029552,49303764-4,00.htm

These cables can only carry currents of up to 2.5A

WHAT? Where the hell did the author get this information?!

Here's a random picture that I found through Google, for those of you who don't know how European wall sockets look like: http://www.goodlogo.com/images/extended.info/b/bcc/wall_socket_NL_GE.jpg

Here's the miserable excuse for the British wall socket: http://www.made-in-china.com/image/2f0j00PvutNFZDbIcQM/Socket-A091-.jpg

1) The European socket has a plastic outside cone for insulation. If the cable is partially unplugged, you cannot touch it with your fingers. The British version has nothing.

2) The European socket allows you to plug the cables upside down (which is extremely helpful in certain situations).

3) Contrary to how it's portrayed in the article, the European socket *does* have grounding. In fact, it has two grounding pins, top and bottom.

4) Some people have mentioned the size of the plugs themselves. Here's the one with the grounding http://www.advin.com/uv-eraser-plug-FE-W512.JPG and here's the one used for small appliances and gadgets http://www.tuxgraphics.org/electronics/powersockets/power_plug_euro.jpg

What a stupid article... Stupid British arrogance.

Re:Europlug and the stupid British socket

[Anonymous Coward]

An American calling the British arrogant - that's the funniest thing I've heard all day.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

Re:Europlug and the stupid British socket

[WaroDaBeast]

Next thing you know is they (the Britons) are going to demonstrate that driving on the right side of the road means driving on the wrong side of the road.

Re:Europlug and the stupid British socket

[91degrees]

1) The European socket has a plastic outside cone for insulation. If the cable is partially unplugged, you cannot touch it with your fingers. The British version has nothing.

Except Insulated pins

2) The European socket allows you to plug the cables upside down (which is extremely helpful in certain situations).

I've never need to do this. I don't think I've ever seen a European plug inverted either. Can't be that useful.

Honestly, the european plug is fine. So's the UK style. The article was stupid, but it's equally stupid getting upset over it.

Re:Europlug and the stupid British socket

[A Friendly Troll]

You also get insulated pins on the "small" version of the Europlug, though it's not such a big deal overall.

Being able to invert the plugs is great when you have vertical sockets* that look like this http://www.stockphotopro.com/photo-thumbs-2/B0YTD7.jpg - often you have appliances which have perpendicular cables http://jiefei.win.mofcom.gov.cn/www/1/jiefei/img/200952310743.jpg so plugging in two of those simply isn't going to work unless one is upside-down.

* For some reason, horizontal double sockets aren't that common, so you take the vertical one and mount it horizontally.

Re:Europlug and the stupid British socket

[91degrees]

I'm guessing that's one of those marginally cheaper design things. You can connect those pins together with single vertical strips of metal that can be mounted on the back of the socket rather than having to cross over and build the socket in two parts.

Re:Europlug and the stupid British socket

[jo_ham]

In answer to (1), the plastic shielding on British plugs is on the plug pins themselves, so if you pull it partially out, the pins are covered for long enough that no metal will be exposed on the live or neutral pins until they have broken their electrical connection with the socket, which achieves the same protection that the recessed Euro socket does.

Some older plugs have no plastic on them, but newer plugs (from the last 20 years or so) have had the plastic shroud.

Re:Europlug and the stupid British socket

[Anonymous Coward]

The European socket allows you to plug the cables upside down (which is extremely helpful in certain situations).

Agreed. I also think that designing a plug to avoid polarity reversal is counter-productive. A plug system which allows the live and neutral connectors to be reversed forces developers to design appliances such that they're safe regardless of polarity. If that is not the case, then a trivial household wiring mistake can cause lethal accidents.

Contrary to how it's portrayed in the article, the European socket *does* have grounding. In fact, it has two grounding pins, top and bottom.

They're referring to the flat "Euro-plug", which does indeed not provide grounding. That's the one you described as being "for small appliances and gadgets", which btw is not the distinction. The Euro-plug is used for devices where the current draw is low and risk of coming in contact with live voltage is avoided through the design of the device.

I kind of like the Schuko plug, but if the IEC 60906-1 plug were non-polarized, that would be even better.

Re:Europlug and the stupid British socket

[hapalibashi]

2) And downright dangerous if the appliance is not double insulated. Live and neutral are colour coded for good reasons!

Re:Europlug and the stupid British socket

[JoeInnes]

Self contradiction. A European plug with grounding cannot be inserted into the socket upside down.

Re:Europlug and the stupid British socket

[omb]

Upside Down === Reversed Live/Neutral, ie switched off but still on

Re:Europlug and the stupid British socket

[omb]

Nonsense, It is symetric, and yes it can. I have an EU plug on my Dyson vacuum and it fits, everywhere up/down

Re:Europlug and the stupid British socket

[JoeInnes]

Well that's incredibly strange, because on EU plugs, the male points of contact are symmetrical, but the female is offset (above) the two males. It's impossible to turn them upside down. Maybe you're thinking of somewhere else.

Re:Europlug and the stupid British socket

[JoeInnes]

In fact, you can see quite clearly on the image you linked to.

Re:Europlug and the stupid British socket

[Anonymous Coward]

Well that's incredibly strange, because on EU plugs, the male points of contact are symmetrical, but the female is offset (above) the two males. It's impossible to turn them upside down. Maybe you're thinking of somewhere else.

The problem in your discussion is: there is no EU plug with grounding. The most widely used system are the French and the German system. The French system - apart from the the two male pins - uses a female pin (out of the socket) for grounding. The German system uses the two same male pins, but for grounding it uses two contacts on the sides. The German system is symmetric, the French is not. The "Europlug" (which fits in both and has no grounding) only uses the two male contacts common to both and is symmetric. It is quite common nowadays to have a French/German hyprid plug with grounding: including a hole for the French grounding pin and including contacts on the side for the German system.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schuko

Re:Europlug and the stupid British socket

[Anonymous Coward]

It was a humorous article .... lighten up .....

If as I suspect you are from the USA, I hope you see the irony in calling any other country in the world arrogant. But you'd need a sense of humour to spot irony, eh?

Re:Europlug and the stupid British socket

[Michael Wardle]

I've never need to do this. I don't think I've ever seen a European plug inverted either. Can't be that useful.

In my house, the power points are very near the floor. My phone charger doesn't fit because it extends down. If I could put it in upside down, it would be helpful.

Re:Europlug and the stupid British socket

[Animaether]

If you are relying on neutral as being 'safe', you've already failed to design a proper appliance. That's why they're practically all double insulated to begin with.
An appliance where there is a potential risk of the live OR the neutral (they're part of a loop once the appliance is connected (and switched on if the switch closes the circuit for either line) hitting user-accessible areas should have a grounding wire.. and thus a plug with grounding connectors (the two metal strips on the sides of the euro plugs, or the hole in the center of the plug for some european countries).

Live and neutral are indeed color coded for good reasons - when wiring a house to prevent silly mistakes leading to immediate short-circuits, for example.. or of more practical use, to know which one you hook up to the threaded part of a lamp fixture, and which to the deeply recessed pin (one of the few things where it matters quite a bit, as it is very easy to touch the lamp's tread while screwing in a new bulb, without there being an actual electrical failure at hand) - but electrical appliances are not really a reason.

Notable exceptions are 2- and 3-phase systems, e.g. for motors, where the phase differentials matter; but that's an entirely different plug and socket design.

Re:Europlug and the stupid British socket

[Anonymous Coward]

2) The European socket allows you to plug the cables upside down (which is extremely helpful in certain situations).

It's also fairly dangerous. IIRC, the neutral is usually grounded back at the plant -- that doesn't mean that neutral-ground is 0V at your house, but it is usually much smaller than live-ground -- perhaps 40V. (It's only live-neutral that has to be the rated 240V). If you plug in, say, an old bar heater, the off switch on the heater will break the live but not the neutral. If you've plugged it in upside down, you've broken the neutral not the live and parts of your heater are still at a potential of 240V.

Re:Europlug and the stupid British socket

[MemoryDragon]

I agree here, the european Socket is not as bad as the article points it out, I think even the 2.5 A (at least I think, I have not heard about it before) limit is wrong here. The only things true in the article is that the socket itself does not enforce fuses (you can get them, but usually the fuses and grounding safety measures of the house installations are enough so no extra fuse on the socket is needed), and childrens protections are not enforced, but you can get them and you can get external ones you can plug into the socket (it is flexible enough that you simply have to put a protectional cover on top of it thanks to the way it is built.

I personally think the author of the article was pretty ignorant, a lot of european countries including mine use those sockets and we are pretty happy with it.
It is definitely way better than the flimsy US ones, and I also would prefer it over the bulky UK ones.

I am not sure if it is better than the 1980s ISO connector swizerland or italy uses. The advantage of this connector simply is it is smaller, the disadvantage adding childrens protection is way harder than with the european connector due to the smaller slots it has, you either have to build it into the outlet or you have a hard time designing one for the small slots. The standard turn-open child protectors which are common for the european connectors cannot be done on those.

Anyway the most miserable ones I have encountered on my journeys so far really are the US ones, that is pretty much the only thing I agree with, in the article.

Re:Europlug and the stupid British socket

[MemoryDragon]

I've never need to do this. I don't think I've ever seen a European plug inverted either. Can't be that useful.

Honestly, the european plug is fine. So's the UK style. The article was stupid, but it's equally stupid getting upset over it.

The upside down thing is quite ok, although it is not that important, but it is nice to be able to plug in the cable the way they currently fit best.
This is a pretty awesome feature for extension fuse boxes which can hold 4-16 additional sockets, often you simply have the problem of having the
cable or power brick on the plug being enforced into a certain direction, being able to plug it in upside down or normally can help a lot to get all the cables in.

Re:Europlug and the stupid British socket

[makomk]

It depends. There are two types of sockets: one uses a female earth pin, the other uses two symmetric earth connections on opposite sites of the plug. Most plugs are designed to be compatible with both.

Doesn't Sound Safe

[TheNinjaroach]

In the Australian design, a higher current plug can't plug into a lower-current socket, but a lower-current plug *can* plug into a higher current socket. Which only makes sense.

That doesn't sound safe to me. I think it's dangerous to take a 15A device and hook it up to a 30A socket. If the device shorts out in an overpowered circuit, the breaker will allow far more power to flow through the device (and perhaps yourself) than it (or you) were ever designed for.

Re:Doesn't Sound Safe

[Teun]

You follow the faulty British ' thinking' which gave them the fused plug.

Every appliance is fused according to rating and type of use, an additional fuse in the socked is not going to improve this protection in any way.

The only ' use' the fused plug has is that it could theoretically prevent a fire caused by a partial short circuit in the power cord.

Theoretical because the mains socket is protected by a fuse or breaker anyway.

Re:Doesn't Sound Safe

[Joce640k]

That's why the British plugs have the fuse inside them - every device has its own fuse with an appropriate rating. Fuses go from 1A up to 13A depending on whether it's a lamp or a heater.

Re:Doesn't Sound Safe

[Anonymous Coward]

So all the times I needed to replace fuses in my plugs when I lived in the UK were figments of my imagination then?

Mysteriously, despite Britain's poorer quality electronics (in my experience) I've had less electronics mysteriously die on me there than I've seen commonly in the US. Circuit breakers don't seem to do enough to protect common appliances.

Re:Doesn't Sound Safe

[XSpud]

A 15A device only draws 15A current, even in a 30A socket. A 30A socket just has thicker wires and a bigger fuse than a 15A socket, so there isn't a problem.

Re:Doesn't Sound Safe

[bluefoxlucid]

These things blow along the line. Fuses will blow faster than breakers; fuses can blow due to the current spike caused by turning a device on, which is harmless.

Re:Doesn't Sound Safe

[jeffstar]

hi,
the device has already shorted out. a short circuit has nearly zero resistance, and thus nearly infinite current will flow. nearly infinity (ok well probably more like 100 Amps) is much larger than 15 or 30 so a short circuit will trip the circuit breaker no matter what it is rated for.

Re:Doesn't Sound Safe

[Anonymous Coward]

There are such things ar high impedance faults. Think of a motor, intsead of a fault happening at the terminals of the motor, it happened half why through the winding. That means half the resistance, and twice the current, but nowhere near a true short circuit.

Re:Doesn't Sound Safe

[Adriax]

Plug ratings depend on the amount of power that can safely be drawn over the wires. It doesn't push 30A out the plug into whatever is being powered, it just lets the device draw up to 30A.

Power is drawn, not pushed.

Re:Doesn't Sound Safe

[jabuzz]

No, a short in the appliance flex/cable could draw say 10A on a 3A rated cable, and the fuse/breaker for the circuit is going to be at a higher rating still say 15A (in the UK for a ring main it will be 32A) and will never blow/trip. Meanwhile the appliance cable heats up merrily and starts a fire.

It is a real issue in the UK with people fitting wrong sized fuses to devices (i.e. fitting a 13A fuse to a device that should be rated at 3A for example), so I simply don't believe that fires are not caused by overheating appliance flexes in other countries.

Re:Doesn't Sound Safe

[Jarik C-Bol]

sudo mod this one up.

Re:Doesn't Sound Safe

[Hawke666]

[sudo] password for Jarik C-Bol:

Re:Doesn't Sound Safe

[raju1kabir]

Did you read the post you are replying to? He was pointing out that in the event of a short circuit, the 15A device wouldn't receive the circuit-breaker protection it expected.

Re:Doesn't Sound Safe

[ross axe]

You follow the faulty British ' thinking' which gave them the fused plug.

Every appliance is fused according to rating and type of use, an additional fuse in the socked is not going to improve this protection in any way.

Except that were not talking about adding an additional fuse, we're talking about moving the fuse into the plug, for captive leads at least. Obviously, if the fuse in the appliance is rated equal or higher it offers no additional protection and you might as well remove it. If the plug fuse is higher you might as well reduce it to be the same as the one in the appliance and, again, remove the appliance fuse.

For detachable leads you may really need 2 fuses for complete safety. What if a 3A lead is connected to a 13A device? And, of course, what if a detachable lead develops a fault (perhaps being dropped in water) while not connected to anything at all?

The only ' use' the fused plug has is that it could theoretically prevent a fire caused by a partial short circuit in the power cord.

Theoretical because the mains socket is protected by a fuse or breaker anyway.

No, not theoretical. The single 32A breaker in my consumer unit will not protect even a 13A flex, and certainly not a 3A flex. And I'm not keen on needing a 32A flex on every single device in order for them to not burst into flames when they die.

Of course, you could argue that the British system is overcautious, and you could argue that most of it's benefits can also be had by using separate breakers on each socket (which I can see being probably more expensive), but stop pretending that there aren't any real safety benefits

And...

[Anonymous Coward]

And the average number of times an American has been shocked by his plugs: greater than 0.

Statistics, huh. You can use them to make whatever answer you prefer as long as you phrase your question right.

Still, you got a +5 Inciteful from the 'merkins on the board, so you're quids in, eh?

Woosh!

[SmallFurryCreature]

Bet it gets annoying when people constantly make wooshing noises at you and you have no idea why they are doing it.

Woosh!

The IEC connector, in all its forms.

[Animats]

Technically, the IEC power connector, as found on the back of most computers, is one of the best. You usually see a chassis-mount IEC male connector and a cord-mount female connector, but the reverse forms are available. IEC "wall sockets" are sometimes found in rackmount server outlet strips. The plug is shrouded, and the socket has an enclosing slot for the shroud, so at no time are energized pins exposed. The shroud engages the enclosing slot before the pins make contact. That's a key safety feature. It allows a smaller plug; if exposed pins are energized while the plug is being plugged in, the plug has to be made larger to keep fingers away from the pins.

IEC is a flat-pin design, which is good. Getting a large contact area on round pins is hard, so round-pin connectors of a given size usually carry less current. Flat-pin contacts just slide between two flat spring-loaded blades, which can accommodate wear on both surfaces. The split-cylinder contacts of round-pin female connectors have to match closely, so as they wear, the inside radius of the cylinder increases and no longer properly matches the pin. Round pins vs. flat contact blades are sometimes used; they wear better, but the the contact area is small.

The older round-pin European connectors are only rated for 10A, sometimes only 7.5A. At 240V, this is adequate. IEC connectors are rated for 15A, and there's a 20A form.

Today we expect connectors to just work, but it took considerable engineering to get to that point. As late as 1980, computers had serious problems with connector unreliability.

Re:The IEC connector, in all its forms.

[JohnPombrio]

Great post. Says what I wanted to say. I used a lot of the IEC sets in test and measurement racks with HP over the years. Never saw an arcing problem, never got a shock, and never saw a bent connector. Those are damn good connectors!

Re:The IEC connector, in all its forms.

[Animaether]

.You usually see a chassis-mount IEC male connector and a cord-mount female connector, but the reverse forms are available.

Anybody who didn't know this should hand in their geek card - it's how computer monitors (the big ol' bulky CRT things) of lore used to get powered. Not via an extra plug that you have to find an extra outlet for (nowadays via wallwarts/converter bricks for 12V or 24V LCD panels), but via a male male IEC connector going straight into the computer chassis' female IEC connector - usually situated right next to the male IEC connector used to power the PC. The situation of "at no time are energized pins exposed" thus retained as well.

Re:The IEC connector, in all its forms.

[MattBurke]

They are indeed good connectors and are fantastic in server racks or on the backs of UPSs, but I wouldn't fancy switching my UK plugs for them anywhere else. Having to change a fuse in the wall socket when you want to unplug a phone charger and plug in a 3kW heater? No thanks...

Re:The IEC connector, in all its forms.

[petermgreen]

IEC connectors are rated for 15A
I'm pretty sure the standard only allows for 10A though I have seen some manufacturers claim 15A.

The same goes for the larger variant, 16A standard but i've seen some manufacturers claim 20A.

Re:The IEC connector, in all its forms.

[Anonymous Coward]

There's a "Powercon" connector, similar to Speakon. It's a push-twist-locking system. Apparently it can take a lot of current though they don't look like it.

I like the UK plug's design that causes it to disconnect in a sensible order when the cable is pulled. This happens enough. The problem comes when it is not wired properly and someone stuffs the wrong length cables into it. I think this is why most appliances now come with pre-wired plugs. Another problem with the UK is that the pulling force is applied in tension on the center screw that holds it together. Nowadays the plastic doesn't tend to fail, but if it did then you'd be left with a lot of exposed live metalwork. Again new moulded pre-fitted plugs avoid this problem.

Re:US vs UK... and AU, Italy, Denmark

[labnet]

The article was a Joke :- Like Jeremy Clarkson type Joke.
Have you yanks lost your sense of humour?

(btw. My Australian plug which I love was upside down and got 2 out of 10!)

100 per cent objective

[kievit]

I am surprised by how serious people take this light-hearted article. It clearly states:

So, let's take a 100 per cent objective* look at the plugs and plug sockets of the world,...

where the footnote clarifies: "*Objectivity in this sentence has a one-off, government-approved change in definition. Its meaning here, and only here, is the exact opposite of what it usually means." Do /. readers really recognize a tongue-in-cheek story only when the summary got the humor icon stuck on it?

Re:This is so true - the UK plug is NOT ridiculous

[Anonymous Coward]

In most UK Film Electricians toolbags you will find a 13A plug connected to a 32Amp Female C-form connector. This would enable you to run a 4kw Arri Cinepar from domestic current, as Britain operates a ring main system, usually 30 amps upstairs and 30 amps downstairs rather than the hub and spoke system of North America. You have problems getting a couple of 2.5Kw HMI's running of a house supply in the New World. As a British Ex-pat living in Canada, I am still amazed at the size of the cables running even to the smallest lights on set. Since when is over-engineering a crime ?

In other news

[SharpFang]

Komatsu 930E-4 has been chosen the best car in the world. Safety of the driver was taken as the deciding factor.

objective my ass...

[MoFoQ]

there's no "objectivity" in that article.
Shoot...just look at the Dutch plug (no pun intended): Two paragraphs, one sentence each. The UK one, it's like reading a biography.

That and there were some facts missing.
Japan uses 100V not 110V
GFCI sockets exist in the US
The British mains (aka 230V mains) are much more potent so they needed shutters 'cuz it was killing kids (oh will someone think of the children!)
Besides, the shutters are in the socket not the plug and guess what, shutters exist for other types OTHER than the British type (aka Type G).

Here's another kicker: just because there's a fuse in the plug, doesn't make it safer. A 13A fuse (the max) can fit in a 3A cord. In order for the fuse to cut the power, it has to melt but in this case, the cord will melt and catch on fire before the fuse does. FAIL
A GFCI socket (which is fair to claim as the article brings in shutters on the Type G socket) will detect current even small amounts leaking to ground (a fault) and shut the power off immediately. There are even sockets that have other kinds of resettable circuit breakers as well.
And some appliances have a fuse box on the back that's connected directly to the cord.

Now as far as shuttering goes, guess what...they have 'em for Type B too, known as tamper resistant meant to protect children from shock!

Re:objective my ass...

[Anonymous Coward]

couldn't tell it was a joke huh? bet you feel stupid now.

Re:objective my ass...

[manicb]

there's no "objectivity" in that article

Whoosh!

I guess this is what happens when a tongue-in-cheek article is featured on Slashdot. Best avoided. Next up: How accurate are Facebook quizzes?

Re:objective my ass...

[tomtomtom]

A 13A fuse (the max) can fit in a 3A cord. In order for the fuse to cut the power, it has to melt but in this case, the cord will melt and catch on fire before the fuse does. FAIL

Moreover, even if you had fitted the correct fuse, there's a good chance the thing will STILL melt and catch fire before the fuse goes. Most fuses can survive for over 5 minutes when drawing double or more their rated current (e.g. a 13A fuse vs. appliance drawing 26A), and even a dead short won't blow a fuse very quickly. This is all an argument for using RCDs and MCBs as well as fuses.

However, having fuses on the plugs is a much better idea than having them at the distribution board - primarily for convenience's sake as it means if something breaks then the part you need to fix is near the thing that broke, not buried in a garage or cellar or whatever.

Re:objective my ass...

[jo_ham]

No one was "thinking of the children" when the UK socket was designed in 1946 - the immediate post-war era wasn't known for it's overbearing health and safety legislation. It was just adopted as a sensible precaution for covering the pins since they were changing the design anyway (from 3 pin round plugs at 5A).

Re:objective my ass...

[hapalibashi]

You can't classify a user ignoring the rated fuse *written on the plug* and *color coded on the plug* as a failure of the UK plug. The fuse is there for the same good reasons that (some) appliances have fuses inside -> fit the wrong one and it won't work properly (which is what Wikipedia says!); wiring will melt, (more) circuitry will fry.

Re:objective my ass...

[omb]

Sorry, NO, read about fuse descrimination, and experience says the wrong breaker/fuse fails first, almost always! Murphy always wins!

Re:objective my ass...

[Avalain]

I think someone didn't read the fine print in TFA. Here, let me quote it for you.

"Objectivity in this sentence has a one-off, government-approved change in definition. Its meaning here, and only here, is the exact opposite of what it usually means."

Re:objective my ass...

[Anonymous Coward]

This is why all recent UK houses are required by law to use circuit breakers in what was the main "fuse box"... I can't remember the last time I replaced a fuse in a UK plug, the breaker for that ring main always goes first.

Re:objective my ass...

[Jesus_666]

OTOH, you'll need to excange a fuse. I don't know about you but over here (Germany) the distribution board usually only carrys a few large fuses and a lot of breakers. If you do "blow out a fuse" you walk to the board and reset the breaker. I strongly doubt that they're going to build that into a plug and I'd find it quite annoying to try and recover from a recoverable electrical fault (whatever kind of fault that could be) only to find that I'm out of fuses. Plus, I still need to walk to where I keep the fuses as I certainly don't have an assortment of fuses on me at all times.

Now I know that what I said is most likely horribly inaccurate from an electrical engineering point of view but we are arguing end-user convenience here and an event that blows out the fuse but allows immediate recovery is most likely going to be a short - and those are caught by the breakers just fine.

Re:objective my ass...

[joggle]

Seriously. I couldn't believe all of these serious responses to an obviously silly article. I thought it was rather funny myself (and I'm an American, so the humor wasn't lost on all of us for the record).

Re:objective my ass...

[kriston]

Furthermore, the clever design of the UK socket has caused one of the most common-sense safety feature for new parents, namely the outlet cover, to actually make the UK socket much more dangerous and deadly for children in many different subtle ways.
Do not use outlet covers on UK sockets!

Please see this site: http://www.fatallyflawed.org.uk/

Re:objective my ass...

[raftpeople]

It was a joke.

A humorous article.

That's why things like having an outlet that looks like a smiley face gained that country points.

Re:objective my ass...

[Computershack]

there's no "objectivity" in that article.

There's not supposed to be you dumb shit. See the asterisk next to the word "objective"? Did you actually scroll down and read what it said? Here's a clue:
"*Objectivity in this sentence has a one-off, government-approved change in definition. Its meaning here, and only here, is the exact opposite of what it usually means."

Congratulations on perpetuating the rumour that Yanks are stupid.

Re:objective my ass...

[Anonymous Coward]

Australian houses use Residual Currency Devices (RCD) to filter power between the main distribution board and all other household sockets ... the articles author should look it up ... outside of Britain we install safety devices on the entire house, not just the appliance.

And seriously, why put a picture of Australia's power socket upside down and then make jokes about it?

Note: The Italian device is certainly interesting, does it matter which way it is plugged in?

Re:objective my ass...

[Anonymous Coward]

US outlets sometimes have rotating shutters; plastic plugs also exist for US outlets to protect kids (if the child is old enough to know how to remove it, the child is old enough to be taught not to). GFCI outlets are only needed for 1 outlet on each power leg (cheaper than putting a fuse in EVERY device). Most US hair dryers and some other high-power devices also have circuit breakers now.

The international idiocy of putting 240V in devices that don't need it (clothes dryers, stoves, etc.) is just weird. The C1 to C8 connectors (for boom boxes, video games, shavers, laptops, etc) is a move in the right direction, but why do we need 8 different styles? Pick 1 two-prong and 1 3-prong grounded type, and standardize EVERYTHING that will run on 1-2 amps and/or a power brick.

Re:objective my ass...

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, please do not let a complete ignorance of history prevent you from making stupid comments!
In the darkest days of WWII there were many UK government initiatives to prepare for a better post-war world, a concept very important to Winston Churchill. These initiatives included planning for National Health Service and the post war benefits system, the 1944 Education Act, the beginnings of the Arts Councils, and a major study of post-war building requirements of which Electrical Installations was one part. To quote that 1944 study: “To ensure the safety of young children it is of considerable importance that the contacts of the socket-outlet should be protected by shutters or other like means, or by the inherent design of the socket outlet.” (Paragraph 84 clause i.)

See http://www.fatallyflawed.org.uk/html/references.html for more on what happened next.
 

And

[Sycraft-fu]

If you need higher power, the US has plugs for that. There are NEMA specs for 600 volt plugs (NEMA L9), 3 phase 60 amp plugs (NEMA 15-60) and so on. When security is needed to make sure something doesn't accidentally become unplugged, there are locking plugs and so on. You can get NEMA plugs for whatever special use you need. Indeed, in our server room it's all NEMA L5 and L6 connectors, locking 120 and 240 volt connectors.

However, for a normal house, NEMA 5-15 or 5-20 outlets work great. They are small, easy to plug and unplug, and carry enough juice to run pretty much every household device except a dryer.

Re:Aha! Time for my favorite indie design this yea

[Anonymous Coward]

good grief, that's so much more compact, wtf didn't the UK, after such great deliberation, come up with that in the first place?!!!

True story... the hair dryer melted her hair

[Maxo-Texas]

I knew someone that took her hair dryer to europe and used an adapter to plug in her hair dryer.

It was basically changed from a hair dryer into a hair melter. Fortunately she wasn't seriously burned. She related how the jet turbine sound should have warned her but it was already swinging up to her head at that point.

Re:True story... the hair dryer melted her hair

[petermgreen]

mmm, double the voltage and you multiply the power into a given resistance by four. Afaict motor speed is usually rougly linearly proportional to voltage.

so probablly double the airflow and four times the heat output which should give about double the temperature rise over ambiant as normal. Thats as your friend discovered likely to be painful.

I bet they learnt to check voltages before using adaptors after that incident.

Re:Aha! Time for my favorite indie design this yea

[PitaBred]

Your power strip for multiple plugs like that still needs to be ginormous.

I RTFA...

[Anonymous Coward]

...I want my 8 clicks back.

Plugs are fine but extension cords suck!

[MobyDisk]

I live in the US, and I am shocked (pun intended) that stores still sell 2-prong extension cords. I understand that many devices still only use 2-prongs, but there's no disadvantage to the 3-prong cords. It is very annoying to spend 10 minutes spelunking under furniture to the outlet, only to be thwarted by a stone-age extension cord. Just stop making the darn things! It isn't worth saving the $2 to buy them!

US Electrical system is better

[slimjim8094]

Admittedly, I'm an American but I will back up my points.

220V is too much for everyday electronics. Why does your vacuum cleaner or table lamp need 220V? I do understand that the amperage is lower (half) for the same wattage. However, if there's a fault in an appliance, and the current carrying lead is exposed, you can touch the conductor without anything more than severe discomfort (wouldn't even call it pain - this has happened to me with a bad light socket). I doubt you could pull this off with 220V. Obviously completing a circuit on either is a bad thing (touching between current and ground...)

Second, ring circuits are for very specific things. I understand the UK uses a ring circuit for pretty much every floor. In the US, we use home runs for important things and limit ring circuits to, say, the 4-5 outlets around the perimeter of the room, generally one room, about a foot off the floor. Those usually run at about 15 amps - enough for a powerful vacuum cleaner, but generally not a microwave. Those run off a (dedicated) 20A circuit, same as a fridge. Other appliances, generally those with electric heating elements (such as a range, water heater, furnace, machines such as a tablesaw) run off dedicated 220V circuits.

The upshot of this is the US has many more circuit breakers, and a lot more granularity. A typical house has about 30-40 circuit breakers, maybe more. But a circuit breaker controls, say, half of a room - instead of the entire first floor. UK plugs are fused, so the appliances are about as safe, but that doesn't fix the problem of not wanting to disconnect a whole floor to work on the electrical system. And you start limiting the current from the distribution point - if you drive a nail through a wire, it will only be carrying 15, maybe 20A before the circuit breaker blows. That's opposed to the 220V at 40A...

Basically, in general there's a lot less current flowing through people's walls. The appliances that need more power get their own entire circuits. I can't help but feel that this is safer, and it allows us to reduce the complexity of our plugs.

I'd honestly like to hear why people disagree - as I'm sure they will.

Re:US Electrical system is better

[Anonymous Coward]

Second, ring circuits are for very specific things. I understand the UK uses a ring circuit for pretty much every floor. In the US, we use home runs for important things and limit ring circuits to, say, the 4-5 outlets around the perimeter of the room, generally one room, about a foot off the floor.

Ring circuits are never used in the US. A ring circuit is one that is fed with power from one end, loops around to all the devices it serves, and then returns to the main panel to be fed from the other end as well. This practice is not permitted by the National Electrical Code here in the USA.

Re:US Electrical system is better

[Idaho]

220V is too much for everyday electronics. Why does your vacuum cleaner or table lamp need 220V? I do understand that the amperage is lower (half) for the same wattage. However, if there's a fault in an appliance, and the current carrying lead is exposed, you can touch the conductor without anything more than severe discomfort (wouldn't even call it pain - this has happened to me with a bad light socket). I doubt you could pull this off with 220V.

Unfortunately, you'd be wrong on both accounts.

First of all, current kills, not potential difference (=voltage). Both 110 and 220V are plenty to overcome the resistance of the human body so from that perspective there's hardly a difference.

Secondly, many appliances can *really* do with 220V (actually, it's even 230V). For example: tumble dryer, oven (electrical), washing machine, dish washer, electrical stoves and basically anything that needs to heat water. Nearly all of those are manufactured to draw about 2000-2500W maximum, which makes for a current of about 10A (at 230V). Ovens and stoves may even draw much more - induction stoves can often draw about 7000W. Good luck doing that at 110V...

Re:US Electrical system is better

[dr00g911]

Going to have to politely disagree here. Appliances such as coffee makers, toasters and electric kettles most certainly benefit from 220.

There's a reason you don't see many electric kettles in the U.S... they take longer than the stove to almost boil a pot of water, compared to the 20 seconds or so you get in the UK for a rolling boil.

I also quite like the switches on UK outlets, although the size of the sockets is somewhat ridiculous.

I'll never forget my first trip to London (about 15 years ago)... the flat I stayed in was in a 150 year old building. Switches on all the outlets, and a central touchscreen that controlled the AC, heat and scheduled the water heater to kick on and off. Hot water in the kitchen sink was on-demand (much like the "electric showers" you see in small flats now).

At the time, it was absolute magic to my teenage American brain, and I began wondering why we don't do more in the U.S. to curtail wasted power.

Then there was the ubiquitous gas broiler on every stove I came across...

But the combo washer-dryer deals that take 5 hours for a load suck. And they're generally in the kitchen for some reason.

Re:US Electrical system is better

[tomtomtom]

Firstly, if you get a shock from the mains, it really doesn't matter much what country you're in, there will be more than enough current to kill. Do not rely on the lower voltage in the US/Japan to save you!

Otherwise, I agree with you and I'd also add that apart from the general lack of ring mains and their attendant problems (not least the fact that they used to be used in the UK to reduce the rating of wire needed), the US electricity supply is better engineered than the UK's in one other important way - most homes are wired with two phases. That means you have 110V potential between phase and neutral and 220V potential between phase and phase for hungrier devices like washing machines etc where you can take more precaution. Overall this should reduce shock risk since the maximum potential difference a human and a wire should only ever be 110V, without compromising on the ability to use more power-hungry appliances.

Unfortunately though, in a cruel twist of fate, there is some evidence that 110V is actually close to the most dangerous voltage to be hit by if you do get shocked (worse than 220V, for example)...

Re:US Electrical system is better

[garnser]

I do understand that the amperage is lower (half) for the same wattage. ... That's opposed to the 220V at 40A...

So lets get this straight, V*A=W American 110V*15A=1650W "European" 220V*40A=8800W Having lived in both Europe and the US the 220V systems generally has a 10/16A fuse giving 2200/3520W, 550/1870W more than the "standard" American one. Going above this one tends to install 3-phase systems running at 380V @ 24-60A in Europe or 208V @ 30-60A in the US depending on the specific need. Try to deploy a high-density rack (15kW) with 110V it's so much fun compared to a 220/380V system...

Re:US Electrical system is better

[Lehk228]

Good luck doing that at 110V

you do realize that US electrical systems have 220(240) wiring as well don't you? as you mentioned, stoves and dryers are typically hooked up to them.

Re:US Electrical system is better

[slimjim8094]

Yes, I said that in my post. It's not hiding:

Other appliances, generally those with electric heating elements (such as a range, water heater, furnace, machines such as a tablesaw) run off dedicated 220V circuits.

Every appliance you mention, with the exception of the washer (which receives hot water from the water heater) runs on 220V in the US.

Re:US Electrical system is better

[slimjim8094]

I've seen plenty of electric kettles in the states that do a rolling boil in about 20 seconds. Maybe slightly longer. And they run on 110v15a

That doesn't seem to be a function of voltage. Maybe we just don't drink as much tea for it to be so common. Many Americans barely ever boil water on its own.

Re:US Electrical system is better

[slimjim8094]

The US is still a 220v system. We just get it in two "hot" wires (of 110v) and a neutral. Draw from both of those, you have 220v w.r.t neutral. Draw from only one, it's 110v.

Just about every house that has power in the US has easy access to 220v. It's just not standard; that is to say it's a seperate circuit (generally) dedicated to a single appliance, or hardwired.

I have residential 220v dual-phase no problem for when I need to deploy my 15kW rack... I just typically only use half at a time. Why does my floor lamp, computer, TV, or radio need 220v and all the problems that come with it?

Re:US Electrical system is better

[RzUpAnmsCwrds]

These devices are usually wired for 220V in the US:
- Electric clothes dryer
- Electric ovens
- Electric stoves

Dishwashers run fine on a 15A 110V circuit. So do washing machines.

Re:US Electrical system is better

[slimjim8094]

Of course. If you bridge it with your finger, you would probably survive with a nasty burn. If you grab 110v hot and neutral with each hand, you're as dead as on 220v.

It's just a lot less common to actually complete a circuit. I once turned on a light with a broken socket and touched the hot wire. It was unpleasant as hell, but I didn't make a circuit so I was fine. Had I made a circuit I'd be in a lot more trouble...

I admittedly don't know what happens if you grab one leg of a 220v circuit, but I can't help but assume it'd be worse than some discomfort. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Re:US Electrical system is better

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, I could engage in a reasoned debate as to the merits of a single power supply system with universal specification as opposed to a series of different standards depending on the intended appliance, but I think a picture of how countries around the world have approached the problem of whether to use 240V or 110V sums it up better:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:WorldMap_Voltage%26Frequency.png

Re:US Electrical system is better

[Zeussy]

I think this is just a weird cultural reason, was driven by Tea. So this is my quirky take for 230. 110v * 15amp = 1650watts. 230v * 13amp = 2990watts. I know that isn't doing the RMS of 2 by the voltage or whatever you need to do for AC. But the most popular electric kettles, for boiling water for our cups of tea are in the order of 3kw and have been for many many years.
 
I believe that is why tea is still quite prevalent in the U.K over coffee, due to that you can't leave Tea on a heating element for too long like you can with coffee (in a coffee maker), else tea begins to stew.

Re:US Electrical system is better

[Sinical]

Secondly, many appliances can *really* do with 220V (actually, it's even 230V). For example: tumble dryer, oven (electrical), washing machine, dish washer, electrical stoves and basically anything that needs to heat water. Nearly all of those are manufactured to draw about 2000-2500W maximum, which makes for a current of about 10A (at 230V). Ovens and stoves may even draw much more - induction stoves can often draw about 7000W. Good luck doing that at 110V...

There are separate 220V circuits for these in U.S. homes. In my apartment, I know that my dryer is on a 220V circuit, and I presume the same of my electric oven and dishwasher. I don't know if these share at all. I'm pretty sure I've had the oven on while drying clothes and running the dishwasher at some point in my life (maybe just once or something...).

Re:US Electrical system is better

[Anonymous Coward]

You're wrong on a number of levels.

First, you obviously don't understand Ohm's Law. Amperage and voltage are inversely proportional when the wattage is constant. The equation is P=IE (watts = volts * amps).

Here's an example:

A 100 watt light bulb operating at 120 volts draws .84 amps.

A 100 watt light bulb operating at 220 volts draws .45 amps.

Second, the wiring topology is independent from the line voltage. There is no technical requirement for ring wiring with 220v.

Re:US Electrical system is better

[confused one]

The British standard of using a ring circuit instead of many branch circuits was put in place immediately after WWII. They had to rebuild a significant fraction of the country and this method required less raw materials.

Re:US Electrical system is better

[petermgreen]

The nice thing about the british system is that you are far less tied down. If I want to use a 3KW electric fire or other big appliance in my lounge I just plug it into an ordinary socket.

Re:US Electrical system is better

[Anonymous Coward]

Ovens and stoves may even draw much more - induction stoves can often draw about 7000W. Good luck doing that at 110V...

Wait... so you're claiming the US doesn't have ovens and stoves?

Re:US Electrical system is better

[Anonymous Coward]

A) humour is good
B) Those have their own plugs, and their own circuits in the US. So, you can't smoke yourself.
C) all of the washing machines, dishwashers and coffee pots in the states run on 120V circuits just fine (the cretins drink coffee not tea)
D) lighten up, mate. TFA was a joke too.

Re:US Electrical system is better

[funkboy]

mod parent up

Look at Cisco Catalyst 6500 power supplies and power-over-ethernet figures sometime. Current kills, and current also heats up. You just can't get enough watts out of a damn US mains plug at 110v to run a big switch with a ton of PoE ports on it, and even if you could you'd need a humongous cable to get it to the switch. At 110v you need 80+ amps to get the 9kw max power draw of a 13 slot chassis loaded with PoE cards. How many people here have even seen a 110v breaker that can handle more than 60 amps?

This is why all of Cisco's high-end Catalyst power supplies have two IEC connectors on them, and it says "use one for 230v, both for 110v" on the back. Probably also why their CRS-1 core packet heater was only available with high-voltage three-phase power supplies until they came out with the "small" one (only have the size of a nice fridge).

Re:US Electrical system is better

[Anonymous Coward]

Did you even read the parent? He points out that major appliances do use 220V, but that it is silly for most home electronics/lights. I'm confused as to how a higher voltage makes things safer - current is voltage/resistance after all, so higher voltage -> higher current if you had a short.

Re:US Electrical system is better

[funkboy]

if you drive a nail through a wire, it will only be carrying 15, maybe 20A before the circuit breaker blows. That's opposed to the 220V at 40A...

At least in France, the current 230v household breaker norms are:

  - 10A for lighting circuits
  - 16A for normal outlets
  - 20A and 32A for kitchen stuff, water heaters, etc.

Which is pretty much what the current ratings on household stuff in the US are, give or take.

Personally I can't tell the difference between being hit with 110v and 230v. They both shock the crap out of you.

Re:US Electrical system is better

[Eil]

220V is too much for everyday electronics. Why does your vacuum cleaner or table lamp need 220V?

Well, 110V is too much for everyday electronics, too. Fact is, the voltage standards have nothing to do with appliances or electronics. Most of the world chose 220V over 110V due to reduced transmission costs. They can get away with a smaller diameter wire to transmit the same amount of power. After WW2, they had to string up a LOT of wire when copper was none too cheap.

However, if there's a fault in an appliance, and the current carrying lead is exposed, you can touch the conductor without anything more than severe discomfort (wouldn't even call it pain - this has happened to me with a bad light socket). I doubt you could pull this off with 220V.

You could plausibly say that 110V is theoretically "safer" than 220V. But in practice, there's not that much difference. It's like getting hit by either a car or a pickup at the same speed. The voltage isn't what hurts you, it's the current. 110V is still plenty deadly, ask the roughly 400 people that die from it in the U.S. every year. If you're interested, only 40 people die of electrocution every year in the U.K. If you take into account that the U.S. has a little more than 5 times more people, that means that you're twice as likely to die electrocution in the U.S. than you are in the U.K.

The upshot of this is the US has many more circuit breakers, and a lot more granularity.

This really depends on a lot of things. The age of the house, the local electric code, the work ethic of the electrician doing the job, and so on. The house that I bought three years ago was built in the 1940's and had only main breakers: one for the upstairs and one for the downstairs and basement. All of the other breakers were for things like the water heater, fridge, stove, furnace, AC, etc. (For the record, I've never seen an average-sized house with 30-40 separate circuits.)

I would imagine the situation is much the same in the U.K. Chances are pretty good that new developments in every developed country have better wiring practices than decades before. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if the modern U.K. electrical code is much MORE stringent than most US codes are, owing to their world-class bureaucracy.

UK plugs are fused, so the appliances are about as safe,

I guess it depends on what you mean by "safe." Safe from fire maybe. Apart from that, fuses do NOTHING to protect people, they protect equipment and property only. An electrical system with a third grounding leg, and GFCI outlets, those things help protect BOTH life and property.

Re:US Electrical system is better

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't see many electric kettles because Americans don't drink as much tea as the British.

You do see plenty of coffee machines, all of which are electric.

Re:US Electrical system is better

[Anonymous Coward]

And just what do you think PUSHES that current? Yep, it's the VOLTAGE. Fundamental rule for safe distribution of electricity - use the minimum practical voltage to do the job.

Re:US Electrical system is better

[Anonymous Coward]

Ovens and stoves are run off dedicated 240V 30A circuits in the US...

Re:US Electrical system is better

[Anonymous Coward]

Did you even read the parent?

"Other appliances, generally those with electric heating elements (such as a range, water heater, furnace, machines such as a tablesaw) run off dedicated 220V circuits."

Re:US Electrical system is better

[Anonymous Coward]

A standard UK system will also consist of ring & spurs, much as you describe. In my house I have 3 ring mains - downstairs, upstairs & kitchen. My oven, microwave, hob & shower run on dedicated circuits. Current regs say you have to have RCD in your fuse box, so driving a nail through the cable usually trips that out before anything bad happens.

New builds generally have kinda a tree structure of circuits - split through 2/3 rcd then down to circuits. Also UK houses are generally smaller - I doubt I have 30 outlets in the whole house.

As already mentioned it's the current that kills, not the voltage and getting stung with 230 isn't all that bad (after you've jumped & sworn at it)

US plugs scare me though. It's what you're used to & I didn't like the blue sparks when I plugged my laptop in.

Re:US Electrical system is better

[Anonymous Coward]

Good luck doing that at 110V

You're right. I can't wait until we get hot water, ovens, and stoves in America!

Re:US Electrical system is better

[Anonymous Coward]

Unfortunately, you'd be wrong on both accounts.

First of all, current kills, not potential difference (=voltage). Both 110 and 220V are plenty to overcome the resistance of the human body so from that perspective there's hardly a difference.

Assuming the resistance of the human body is a constant, which will produce more current through the human body? 110V or 220V? Let's see, I=V/R, so the 220 power source will cause twice a much current to go through you.

Re:US Electrical system is better

[aaarrrgggh]

Moreover, the mechanical strength of the conductors limits practical sizes to #12-14, eliminating most benefit of higher voltage. With 230V, you need to be careful to have enough fault current to trip a breaker.

Also, the US uses 277/480V power for anything that needs real oomph, which both limits the amount of transformations, and provides bigger bulk power and higher torque, all while keeping common plugs at a safe, non-arcing voltage.

Re:US Electrical system is better

[aaarrrgggh]

Dryers and ovens are run at either 208 or 240V in the US; we use a center neutral, so residential services still have 240V power available for large appliances.

Re:US Electrical system is better

[eyebum]

Did you miss the part about appliances that need more power getting that power through a dedicated circuit?

Re:US Electrical system is better

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually I believe you are the one who is wrong on both counts.

1) Yes current kills but it's potential difference (voltage) that drives current into a given load (your body when you touch the sink and a toaster with a ground fault at the same time). Ohm's Law: I = V/R, since R is essentialy constant (your body) the current that fries your nervous system (I) will be proportional to V. Yes, given a good connection 110V can be fatal, however many (most?) times the connection is not so great. I remember kids sticking metal hair clips in electrical outlets when I was a kid because of the tingle. It was just a tingle because the cheap hair clip was not a great conductor and they were not well grounded. The same act involving a 220V outlet would likely be quite bit more than a tingle.

2) Some appliances do benefit from 220V (like the ones you mention) but, as the origional poster pointed out, those type of appliances are connected to dedicated 2-phase 220V circuits in US residental wiring using a special high-current plug. I very much doubt that a European single-phase 220V plug could deliver the amount of power needed for an oven or hotwater heater, The fact that some appliances need high voltage/current circuits doesn't mean its a good idea to run your blender or electric shaver on 220V.

Re:US Electrical system is better

[Anonymous Coward]

Being a euro I can speak from experience that touching a open wire here in euroland only just stings a bit.

If for some reason your hand grabs on to an exposed wire you might have a uncomfortable time though, since I've heard that it's actually hard to tell your hand to let go in some cases. But haven't had that experience yet, mostly just touching by accident and having it sting a bit.

Also I'm reasonably sure the electrical layout depends heavily on what state in euroland your talking about, and at what year the home was built. My house is from ~1940 and the electric wiring probably got redone in the early 80's or something. It has a separate breaker for 2 to 3 rooms. With another separate breaker for the heavy stuff, like washer/dryer etc..

So probebly about the same as with you, with the large difference that it's all 230V like god intended.

Re:US Electrical system is better

[Anonymous Coward]

Ring circuits don't exist in the US as the NEC outlaws them. Similar thing in Canada, too.

The closest thing to a ring circuit that exists in North America would either be a split duplex fed two phases (one per outlet) with a single neutral, which cuts down on one conductor, or simply running two (or more) conductors in parallel (increasing the amount of current that can be safely handled in all cases) when no neutral is required (eg: two-phase 220 v or three-phase delta).

A ring circuit has two completely separate runs of cable originating from the same breaker being fed through multiple outlets using wire rated for half the breaker's capability (eg: 2 x 14 AWG wire on a 30 A breaker). This creates multiple paths for neutral with is an absolute no-no over here. If an outlet (or just bad wiring) causes a break in the neutral the result is up to double the safe the current flowing over the neutral and no breaker popping. That spells fire over the long term.

It's an incredibly flawed design that requires outlets that are not equipped for the maximum current a load can put on them (26 A IIRC in the UK, yet the plugs and outlets are designed for only 13 A each). Instead, the stopgap measure of putting a fuse in the plug is used.

Apart from ring circuits, though, the British plug design is sound. It's too bad the reasoning behind it is the bad wiring legally installed behind the walls.

Re:US Electrical system is better

[evilviper]

There's a reason you don't see many electric kettles in the U.S...

Yes,
1) Natural gas or Propane is considerably cheaper than electricity.
2) Americans don't drink remotely enough tea and the like to need a special device for it.
3) Americans have coffee makers, not electric kettles.

Re:US Electrical system is better

[Anonymous Coward]

"220V is too much for everyday electronics"

"not a microwave. Those run off a (dedicated) 20A circuit, same as a fridge"

Well done my son, you have successfully illustrated why 110v is such a waste of time. We do (in the UK) occasionally wire the fridge on a separate radial circuit but that's due to their tendency to leak a fair bit of current to ground and thus nuisance trip RCD's. IAAE (I am an electrician) BTW.

Re:US Electrical system is better

[Anonymous Coward]

If you look up the time / current characteristics for whatever MCB / MCCB / fuse your using I think you'll find that it actually takes several 100 amps to trip a circuit breaker "instantaneously" they will quite happily carry twice there rated current for a minute or so, this is because domestic circuit breakers typically have 2 modes of operation, magnetic (short circuit) and thermal (overload) the magnetic is instant but takes very high current to operate, the thermal will operate from say 1.25x the nominal rating in a reasonable (less than 10 minutes) length of time, this delay is to accommodate things such as motors starting up during which they draw several times there normal current.

Driving a nail through a cable will cause just as much current to flow as ohms law allow, regardless of voltage and protective devices.

Re:US Electrical system is better

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, I said that in my post. It's not hiding:

Other appliances, generally those with electric heating elements (such as a range, water heater, furnace, machines such as a tablesaw) run off dedicated 220V circuits.

Every appliance you mention, with the exception of the washer (which receives hot water from the water heater) runs on 220V in the US.

Still, surely it's more convenient to be able to plug in your heater/kettle/hoover into any plug and not need a dedicated circuit ?

Re:US Electrical system is better

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes but a 220v kettle/toaster/coffee maker, etc is twice as fast as 110. When you need your caffeine, this is important

Re:US Electrical system is better

[the_womble]

The British system seems to be perfectly safe in use, and fuses in each plug is an advantage from the point of view of safety.

The flexibility of being above to plug in any appliance into any socket can be very useful

Re:US Electrical system is better

[Anonymous Coward]

Wait - so you've got two different, incompatible standards (110V and 220V) in the same country?

Re:US Electrical system is better

[martyros]

First of all, current kills, not potential difference (=voltage). Both 110 and 220V are plenty to overcome the resistance of the human body so from that perspective there's hardly a difference.

Current kills, but the amount of current you get goes up with voltage, and down with resistance. Ohms law: V=IR right? So given that R, the resistance of the human body is constant, doubling the voltage means doubling the current. In other words, there's more current flowing over the wires in the US, but if you grab one of those mains, there will be more current flowing through your body in Europe.

(Three volts is enough to "overcome the resistance of the human body". Haven't you ever grabbed two ends of a ohmmeter, one in each hand, and measured your own resistance? That's how the scientology "diagnostic" machines work.)

Re:US Electrical system is better

[phision]

And what about audio power amplifiers? Consider the average surround amp: 7x50W=3500W + 150W for the subwoofer = 3650W. Add 30% for the losses.
So I have to run my amp from the dedicated circuit?

Re:US Electrical system is better

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you have different plugs for the different voltages?

Re:US Electrical system is better

[qc_dk]

Admittedly, I'm not an American but I will back up my points.

110V is too little for everyday electronics. How can your vacuum cleaner or table lamp run on 110V? I do understand that the amperage is higher(double) for the same wattage. However, if there's a fault in an appliance, and the current lead is exposed, you can touch the conductor without anything more than a severe rap over the fingers (wouldn't even call it pain - this has happened to me with a badly wired oven (technically 400v) and I actually completed the circuit). I doubt you could pull this off with 110V. Obviously completing a circuit on either is a bad thing (touching between current and ground...).

And you start limiting the current from the distribution point - if you drive a nail through a wire, it will only be carrying 5A, maybe 12A(remember 220V is at half the Ampage) before the circuit breaker blows. That's opposed to the 110V at 20A...

Basically, in general there's a lot less current flowing through people's walls. The appliances that need more power get their own entire circuits. I can't help but feel that this is safer, and it allows us to reduce the complexity of our plugs.

A quick googling shows that in 2001 ~2 in a million died from accidental electrocution in the US and ~1 in a million in DK.Won't somebody think of the children!!!

Re:US Electrical system is better

[Anonymous Coward]

Wouldn't work very well for us in the UK. Given the fact that a lot of the buildings in our larger cities can be up to 200 or more years old, there isn't often a lot of spare space, or easy (and cheap) access to the guts of the house. Needing to put in a new dedicated circuit every time we need a new appliance would get extremely expensive and incredibly inefficient. Much easier to just make every plug capable of taking the big things.

If you've got a new build or one of these pre-fab paper houses then this might not be a problem - but a plug set-up like the US has would cause a lot us no-end of shit and hassle. Would make the electricians rich and happy though.

Re:US Electrical system is better

[cycler]

220V too much?

(I'm Swedish and an Electrical Engineer)

220V to my knowledge hasn't killed anyone where ~100V would have saved them. To shift the same power the US must have thicker cables but sometimes it isn't.
Also, why on earth do the US only use 2 phases of 3 for the "heavy" stuff?? That would be a huge imbalance on the 3 phase power.
If 100V is good why are all data centers shifting to 220V? (Maybe not all but you get the idea).
And as the article is wrong (in Sweden anyway), most outlets in a normal house/apartment is 10A and the stove/washingmachine at 16A. At ~232V (400V 3-phase) this equals 2320W or 3712W (with a pure resistive load of course). This on a 1,5mm^2 wire. (Might be thicker in the walls, 2,5mm^2)
Why some one (Aussies) would argue that it's a good thing to plug a AC plug the right way is beyond me since it doesn't matter!

In Sweden (Euroland) the ground/earth is also the first and last to be connected/disconnected.

But, as a whole I would agree to get the same plugs on the planet. Trouble is, I would like it to be 220V....... with a small plug.

/C

Re:US Electrical system is better

[fuzzywig]

I've electrocuted myself off 240V a couple of times, and it's quite painful. I'd say it felt about as painful as a shock of a small electric fence (the sort you'd keep chickenz in), but I did get more of a 'jolt'. (it's all pretty hard to describe, but it kinda felt like there was more going through than an electric fence). Of course, that's just a shock through one hand, if it had arced through my chest I might not have got off so lightly... Also, out of interest, are the plugs that are used for three phase the same all over the world?

Re:US Electrical system is better

[PCM2]

Do you have different plugs for the different voltages?

Yes.

Re:US Electrical system is better

[PCM2]

Wait - so you've got two different, incompatible standards (110V and 220V) in the same country?

That's right. But for all intents and purposes, the average consumer will never see anything but a 110V outlet. 220V is only used for major appliances and the sockets are incompatible with everyday consumer products. If you see a 220V socket and don't know what it is, you won't be able to use it (short of jamming a butter knife into it if you're really curious).

Re:US Electrical system is better

[xaxa]

I've seen plenty of electric kettles in the states that do a rolling boil in about 20 seconds.

A 3kW UK kettle (13A*230V) must heat water faster than a 1.6kW US kettle (15A*110V).

I think the GP was referring to a full kettle. You can get a UK kettle that heats 1 cup of water in 3 seconds.

Re:US Electrical system is better

[Anonymous Coward]

Been there a few times re: grabbing one leg of a 220v. Doesn't do much more than tingle or give you a bit of a bite to tell you to be a bit more careful next time. (I still haven't quite learned. 5 times and counting... :p )

Re:US Electrical system is better

[Anonymous Coward]

It's the same standard. It's two 110V circuits 180 degrees out of phase to make 220V. We also have 240V three phase electricity for industrial applications, but most residences do not have three phase.

Re:US Electrical system is better

[raistlinwolf]

I know people like to say 'its the current that kills', but how does this apply here? If I touch a live wire, nothing is going to happen to me unless/until I ground - from that point the shock I receive will be a circuit and will have a certain amount of resistance.. If the voltage is double, then won't twice the current flow through that part of the body?

Re:US Electrical system is better

[Anonymous Coward]

That's right. But for all intents and purposes, the average consumer will never see anything but a 110V outlet. 220V is only used for major appliances and the sockets are incompatible with everyday consumer products.

UK: Buy large appliance, plug in to any socket, use (most houses have *loads* of double sockets these days).
At worst, fit extra socket by breaking into ring main (no wiring to consumer unit/fuse box required, no spare fuseway/rcd required). Simple, can be done (legally) by any competent DIY person, no insepction etc. required.

USA: Buy large appliance, no 220V connection spare, serious wiring job, probably contractor involved may double cost of appliance.

Re:US Electrical system is better

[mpe]

Well, 110V is too much for everyday electronics, too. Fact is, the voltage standards have nothing to do with appliances or electronics. Most of the world chose 220V over 110V due to reduced transmission costs.

Transmission generally uses a considerably higher voltage.

They can get away with a smaller diameter wire to transmit the same amount of power. After WW2, they had to string up a LOT of wire when copper was none too cheap.

The UK was already on a higher voltage prior to 1939.
The other major difference is that the US style system uses a lot more transformers each with a 110-0-110 secondary. Whereas the UK system uses larger transformers which output 230V three phase (400V between any two phases), delivered via either overhead wires or underground cable.

This really depends on a lot of things. The age of the house, the local electric code, the work ethic of the electrician doing the job, and so on. The house that I bought three years ago was built in the 1940's and had only main breakers: one for the upstairs and one for the downstairs and basement. All of the other breakers were for things like the water heater, fridge, stove, furnace, AC, etc. (For the record, I've never seen an average-sized house with 30-40 separate circuits.)
I would imagine the situation is much the same in the U.K. Chances are pretty good that new developments in every developed country have better wiring practices than decades before. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if the modern U.K. electrical code is much MORE stringent than most US codes are, owing to their world-class bureaucracy.

The US is also likely to be rather more diverse in terms of electrical codes, AFAIK due to it not being up the the Federal Government to regulate such things.

Re:US Electrical system is better

[mpe]

Also, why on earth do the US only use 2 phases of 3 for the "heavy" stuff?? That would be a huge imbalance on the 3 phase power.

The US has both regular 3 phase (120 degree difference) and 2 phase from a centre tapped transformer.

Re:US Electrical system is better

[Anonymous Coward]

Those are great arguments. Sadly, they are rendered moot by the fact that in the US there are two legs of 110 power running to each house, and we do have 220V sockets/plugs for our major appliances (which tend not to move much). The only negative is that there are not commonly 220v sockets located everywhere you might want to use high-wattage semi-portable devices, like welders or other garage stuff. Many garages, though, have a sub-panel in them with 220v running to it, making it trivial to distribute 220v around the one place you are most likely to need it.

Re:US Electrical system is better

[Anonymous Coward]

Most US homes are wired in a split-phase configuration where you get two 117 V legs from the street. On a stove, these are joined to give approx. 230V. Dryers can be wired this way too.

So, we get the volts when we need them.

Re:US Electrical system is better

[AK Marc]

The US is also likely to be rather more diverse in terms of electrical codes, AFAIK due to it not being up the the Federal Government to regulate such things.

This is not true (the diversity of codes part). One reason I hate the US is that the laws are unknowable, yet people still cling to "ignorance of the law is no defense." I would guess that every state in the USA has a law on the books that says electrical work must meet codes. But I would also bet that none of those states actually writes any codes. They have a pile of standard codes for building (separate ones for plumbing, wiring, etc.) which they refer to. Probably all refer to the same sets of code books. These code books have the force of law, yet are books by private organization and not available for public distribution. So it is often illegal for the state to tell you the codes you have to build to, but if you don't build to them, you will be breaking the law.

And, back to your initial assertion, I would guess that every state has the same electrical codes.

http://www.amazon.com/National-Electrical-Code-Protection-Association/dp/0877657904/ref=pd_sim_dbs_b_2

Re:US Electrical system is better

[Anonymous Coward]

Er, the US has 2-phase plugs as well.
I think its better to have special plugs for devices that need that kind of power, instead of all over the house.

And anything beyond that should have a dedicated connection instead of an outlet anyway...

Re:US Electrical system is better

[Anonymous Coward]

you realize we have all those appliances here in the US right?

Re:US Electrical system is better

[Anonymous Coward]

There's a reason you don't see many electric kettles in the U.S... they take longer than the stove to almost boil a pot of water, compared to the 20 seconds or so you get in the UK for a rolling boil.

Or, because we drink coffee instead.

Re:US Electrical system is better

[Anonymous Coward]

Going to have to politely disagree here. Appliances such as coffee makers, toasters and electric kettles most certainly benefit from 220.

There's a reason you don't see many electric kettles in the U.S... they take longer than the stove to almost boil a pot of water, compared to the 20 seconds or so you get in the UK for a rolling boil.

The reason you don't see many electric kettles in the U.S. is that fewer Americans drink hot tea. Period. Full stop. We have plenty of electric kettles in the U.S. - so what if we have to wait 40 seconds for a rolling boil instead of 20 seconds. Who cares? My electric kettle works just fine on 110. So does my coffee maker and my toaster. Jebus! Are you seriously going to tell me my toaster would work better/faster on 220? How f_cking fast do you need your bread toasted?

Re:US Electrical system is better

[Anonymous Coward]

...aand those appliances have big old freaking 220W plugs in America too.

what's your point?

Re:US Electrical system is better

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you aware that US standard home electrical systems use 240V single Phase for running the AC system, the oven, the water heater, etc.?l

The small plugs described in the article are intended to run only small devices. For large power usage, there are large style plugs.

As a Registered Electrical Engineer, I have seen a lot of really REALLY misinformed comment both in the articles responses and here.

For instance, the fatal range for electrical shock (the stop the heart range) is approximately 90 to 300 Volts (source, IEEE Standard 80). lower voltages will tingle or cause pain. Higher voltages will cause burns. and can kill if they go on long enough. I do know people who have survived electrical short circuits through their bodies of 7,000 to 25,000 volts at several hundred amperes. There were severe internal burns. If the time is short enough, you can survive enormous voltages and currents. The damaging factor is the square of the current times the time (total energy) for the heat generated. In the fatal range, the heartbeat signal is scrambled, and a heart attack is triggered. Different mechanism.

Similarly, both common voltages are in the fatal range, so the flames about safety are all off base.

As for the fuse argument, the relevant factor is total clearing time. True for both the Fuse and the Circuit Breaker. In both systems, it's a question of regulating the current in the circuit. TIMTODI. Where the circuit is regulated and switched can be safely be done either way.

In summary, the article was a spoof, and should not be taken to reflect any relevant reality. Sadly, many of the comments are no more factual, and are trying to put out a lot of misinformation.

Re:US Electrical system is better

[Anonymous Coward]

First of all, current kills, not potential difference (=voltage). Both 110 and 220V are plenty to overcome the resistance of the human body so from that perspective there's hardly a difference.

power = voltage^2 / resistance
so clearly 2x the voltage is 4x as dangerous
More voltage will draw more power. Its that easy, so I am afraid your argument is misinformed, and therefore both wrong, and invalid.

Re:US Electrical system is better

[Anonymous Coward]

In the U.S., 220v is generally available for the appliances that need it; electrically heated central heater, clothes dryer, water heater, oven/stove. The plugs for this are much more substantial than the common 110v lamp cord shown in TFA. Here is an example http://salestores.com/monste21.html Gas is commonly used for these purposes, and in that case 110v is plenty for the fans/electrial motors. The washing machine and dish washer don't need 220v, because they use the central hot water source. If they do heat water, it is only to give a slight increase to the available hot water source. If an induction stove running on 220v has 7000W available, a similar amperage on 110V would provide 3500V, which is enough for most of your other examples. My 220V service provides 50A for the oven/stove, 40A for the AC, 30A for the dryer. It seems like the induction stove referenced would work fine in the U.S. The only situation I have seen the 110V service being a limitation is for higher-end consumer espresso machines, which want a 20A service to allow dual boilers to operate at the same time. This is also available in newer kitchens in the U.S., with a funny plug to prevent use in an ordinary outlet. See the plug here http://www.made-in-china.com/image/2f0j00cMUQTSRBqLoGM/Us-Straight-Blade-Plug-YGA-020-.jpg and the socket here http://cache.smarthome.com/images/4271bi.jpg

Re:US Electrical system is better

[Anonymous Coward]

110V is too little for a table lamp? Do you seriously use a 2-3KW table lamp?

US plug suck, I have scar to prove it,

[gemtech]

in the corner of my mouth. Trying to unplug a night light when I was 7 years old. Yes, I used my teeth and caught a blade on the corner of my mouth. I blacked out. It's a small scar. I've always said that that was my first taste of electricity.
They are quite dangerous for little kids. I like most of the European plugs, but it does add a lot to the size. Japanese plugs are the worst.

It's a...

[amitabh_mehta]

shameless plug.

Idle (not Eric)

[macraig]

This belongs in Idle. Seriously. Not at all not-seriously.

Probably a Safety Feature?

[Roger W Moore]

Most US plus for some reason think it is a great idea to stick far further out from the wall than even the huge British plug due to plugging in perpendicular.

Since most (all?) Canadian/US plugs lack any kind of cable grip to relieve stress on the pin contacts, unlike a UK plug, this is probably a safety feature since the perpendicular approach will mean that the plug can be yanked form the wall more easily if someone trips over it or pulls on it. It is safer to pull the plug from the wall than to damage the cable.

Summary if you do not want to RTFA

[Zoxed]

UK website rates UK mains plug the best in the world (I am shocked, shocked ...)

if Chuck Norris was a plug .

[leuk_he]

You forgot the part " if chuck norris was a plug".

But i am confused because Chuck norris is a British as the pope is.

Price of safety

[Roger W Moore]

They may be larger but they are far, far safer. As most things it is a trade off. The question you need to ask is exactly how many people's lives is the convenience of a smaller plug worth?

Re:Price of safety

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

How many lives do the more dangerous smaller plugs cost? I'm having trouble finding any solid statistics; but most of the literature I have been able to dig up suggests that electrocution deaths are not all that common, and are heavily concentrated in occupational contexts(electricians and their minions, people coming into unexpected contact with overhead lines in agricultural and construction situations, and some industrial/mining incidents) rather than end user scenarios, where the shrouds and shutters might make a difference.

The classic "baby sticking a fork in the socket and dying a sizzly death" scenario seems remarkably thin on the ground.

Re:Price of safety

[Jesus_666]

Elaborate. Europlugs aren't small enough to be a choking hazard and are fairly resilient. You could stomp on one while it's plugged in but that would probably just break off the pins, which are isolated. Schuko plugs use unisolated pins but I wish you good luck trying to break one by stomping on it while it's plugged in.

If we bring plug shape into this, I'd maintain that the English plug is more dangerous - you could step on the pins. Yeah, still not entirely exciting but we're arguing plug dangerousness as a factor of size and shape here.

Re:Price of safety

[Anonymous Coward]

My (Scottish) roommate stuck a knife in a toaster and flipped the circuit breaker for our entire (English) flat. I thought that scenario was pretty unlikely too until a Cambridge graduate did it right in front of me.

However, it seems it wasn't the fuse and socket but rather the circuit breaker that prevented injury. He didn't even get shocked. The circuit breaker is apparently very fast.

Re:Price of safety

[Roger W Moore]

If we bring plug shape into this, I'd maintain that the English plug is more dangerous - you could step on the pins.

Stepping on the pins will not kill you. The house fire caused by a short in an appliance can and GFI and circuit breakers will not necessarily trigger on these because they cover multiple sockets and so, typically, have very high amperage rates 30A or higher vs. the 10-15A that it is safe to draw from one socket.

Re:Price of safety

[jabuzz]

My sister at the age of seven had a *VERY* nasty electrical shock with a toy cutlery set, and a three way adapter. It was in the days before the sheaving of the live and neutral pins so could not happen today, but basically a knife shorted out live to earth. It was also in the days before RCD's so the fact she is still alive today is shear good fortune.

Re:Price of safety

[Anonymous Coward]

How many lives do the more dangerous smaller plugs cost? I'm having trouble finding any solid statistics; but most of the literature I have been able to dig up suggests that electrocution deaths are not all that common, and are heavily concentrated in occupational contexts(electricians and their minions, people coming into unexpected contact with overhead lines in agricultural and construction situations, and some industrial/mining incidents) rather than end user scenarios, where the shrouds and shutters might make a difference.

The classic "baby sticking a fork in the socket and dying a sizzly death" scenario seems remarkably thin on the ground.

If US plugs were anywhere remotely as dangerous as the British seem to think, electrocution would be beating out heart disease for leading cause of death in the US, and there's be a shortage of houses due to all the faulty-plug-related electrical fires.

Re:Price of safety

[pnot]

Stepping on the pins will not kill you.

Not quite true. Stepping on the pins will not kill you, unless you go to a homeopath for treatment rather than a doctor. Yay natural healing!

Re:Price of safety

[strikethree]

"The classic "baby sticking a fork in the socket and dying a sizzly death" scenario seems remarkably thin on the ground."

At the age of two, my son became infatuated with wall sockets (American). Despite putting plastic adapters and other security precautions, he managed to stick tweezers into a wall socket. He did not die but he never played with wall sockets again. :)

strike

Re:Price of safety

[Kattspya]

He didn't get shocked because he was not the most convenient (or rather inconvenient enough that not much if any current passed through him) path to ground. The knife either shorted the line with neutral or ground with little or none of the current going through him. If he had been the only path to ground the circuit breaker wouldn't have tripped unless he took all of the amps the breaker could supply in which case he would be dead or have serious injuries.

Re:Price of safety

[hughk]

Most people outside the UK (or countries with UK style sockets) with toddlers/young-kids buy socket covers. Some of which are quite fiddly to insert and remove but do provide safety.

Re:Price of safety

[Roger W Moore]

Yay natural healing!

Actually I think that should be "Yay, evolution!". In fact that deserves a nomination for a Darwin award.

Can't happen with recent (20years) plugs

[Nicolas MONNET]

The first centimetre of the base of the connector of non-grounded plugs is covered with plastic. If you pull the plug enough to expose the conductor, it's not touching the connector inside the female plug.

Grounded plugs are fully exposed; but wall plugs accepting them are recessed at least 1cm, to the same effect.

Re:Aha! Time for my favorite indie design this yea

[Anonymous Coward]

Try looking at all the designs, including their take on the power strip: http://www.minkyu.co.uk/Site/Product/Entries/2009/4/20_Folding_Plug_System_files/choi_(uk_folding_plug)06.jpg/

Wired Appliances (was Re:Really?)

[clintp]

This is patently untrue.

Electric clothes dryers sold in the US routinely come without a power cord. Usually the receptacle is a NEMA 14-30R or a 10-30R for either 3 or 4 wires.

  Typically you have to buy the cord separately and attach it to the rear of the dryer during installation.

Re:Wired Appliances (was Re:Really?)

[1s44c]

This is patently untrue.

Electric clothes dryers sold in the US routinely come without a power cord. Usually the receptacle is a NEMA 14-30R or a 10-30R for either 3 or 4 wires.

  Typically you have to buy the cord separately and attach it to the rear of the dryer during installation.

It's only untrue if you take it out of context. I was replying to someone talking about how everything in the UK comes with a plug.

I prefer the wetware socket

[itsybitsy]

I prefer the female wetware socket... it fits well and it is an international standard. Although at times care and cleaning may be required when it's reverse gets used. Also note that the third socket contains dangers such as exposed bones yet does offer effective release of energy transfer and is highly rated. Overall three potent sockets in one package. Of course if you're bent the other way you only get two sockets to work with and reportedly they are just as highly rated. Enjoy your sockets and prongs responsibly and remember to always protect your prong and sockets using the appropriate wrapper.

They fail to....

[Darkness404]

One thing they fail to see is their design. A Europlug or an American/Japanese style plug is easy to plug in, easy to take out and isn't a huge cord. I'd rather my laptop cable be http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:PC_flex_with_CEE_7-7_plug.png than http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:PC_flex_with_BS_1363_plug.png its a lot easier to carry and use. As for the debate on amps and volts, in all honesty has there been a single thing that you wanted to have but couldn't because it required more power but people in other countries where there are more amps and volts can get?

My favorite line was this

And that has left the US with a plug and socket system that makes Chuck Norris weep. Plugs that hang out of the wall. Pins that are so easily bent you could write off a cable just by looking at it in the wrong way. How anyone ever gets their Apple laptop to fully charge without the adaptor falling out of the wall is beyond us. We're not sure why the company bothered inventing Magsafe -- surely if anyone in the US trips over a power cable, it flies out of the wall so fast no laptop could ever be pulled to the ground.

Plugs that hang out of the wall? Unless you are living in an ancient building that has decaying sockets I don't see how that happens. None of my cords "hang out of the wall" nor have they. Pins that are so easily bent? Unless you are talking about the pins on Christmas tree lights (which manage to always have -something- wrong with them) I have never had a bent pin in my life from American plugs. And as for tripping, how fast were they running when they managed to trip something out of the wall? Its not that easy.

But in the end I think it is just the "My country is better than your country" crap that seems to be spewed a lot.

Re:They fail to....

[makomk]

Plugs that hang out of the wall? Unless you are living in an ancient building that has decaying sockets I don't see how that happens. None of my cords "hang out of the wall" nor have they.

See, as a UKian, I don't get this. Here, even if you are living in an ancient building with decaying sockets, the plugs still stay in the wall.

Re:They fail to....

[Darkness404]

Well, basically what I was meaning was that unless his sockets were totally screwed up, it should work.

Americans make the best butt plug!

[kawabago]

Americans make the best butt plug!

I was involved in plug standards in the 80s

[Kupfernigk]

I confess. I took the 12-step plan to recovery and although I will always be a connectoholic, I'm all right so long as you don't get me started on the subject.

The best system in the world, for real, is a combination of the Europlug and the Schuko plug. Proper Europlugs and Schuko plugs have bodies which fit partly into the wall so the load is not taken by the pins. The Europlug pins are partly insulated so if you can see metal, it's safe. You can fit lots of them onto a power strip, so a strip for electronics can have many connectors in a small space while a power extender can give you 16A in a small footprint.

The reason the UK still has the BS1363 plug is because it has square pins, and the manufacturers thought the Chinese would not want to invest in special tooling to make them when they had the world of round pins or cheap strip pins (as in US) to go after. Then Mrs. Thatcher came along and they decided to let the Chinese make them anyway.

Every time you buy a computer in the UK you get a BS 1363 to IEC lead and a Schuko to IEC lead. That's how cheap they are: manufacturers throw them away rather than be bothered to have two different SKUs.

Re:I was involved in plug standards in the 80s

[petermgreen]

Every time you buy a computer in the UK you get a BS 1363 to IEC lead and a Schuko to IEC lead. That's how cheap they are: manufacturers throw them away rather than be bothered to have two different SKUs.
Who do you buy your computers from? I have seen equipment come with both from time to time but most of the computer equipment i've bought has just come with the british lead.

Re:No, including non-earthed sockets was quite unf

[jimicus]

Oh, and there are plenty of UK homes with 2-prong outlets also..

Really? I'd love to know where, because I've never in my life seen a 2-pin outlet in a UK home. Electrical standards have mandated 3 rectangular-pinned earthed outlets for about 50 years. Prior to that they were fairly similar but had round pins.

5.0L V8 in commuter car? Bad Information!!!

[Virtucon]

This twit is annoying and incorrect! I have a 6.3L V8 in my daily driver. My wife has a 7.3L Turbo Diesel in her Excursion.

Damn Brits! Get it right and drive on the Right as well!!

Not Italian plugs

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh hell no, italian plugs are terrible.
1) See the plug in the middle of this image: http://z.about.com/d/goitaly/1/0/V/4/-/-/sockets-kitchen.jpg
Notice how there's sort of overlapping circles on around a middle circle? That's because there are two different types of plugs that don't fit each other's sockets. I'd say 95% of the sockets in Italy are NOT like this image, and can instead only support one of the two types of plugs. That means you need tons of adapters just to get your Italian devices working in Italy. That's also ignoring the whole middle (ground) plug that is seemingly randomly present (or not) on both plugs and sockets.
2) Every time you plug something in, there's a visible spark. I really don't know why. Maybe it's a European thing and I only really have experience with plugs in Italy (and America). But I've now grown accustomed to it, and have never been shocked, so I assume it's ok, just weird.
3) The prongs are much longer than American plugs. They are also usually only metal on the tips (I assume because they're so long that they don't want someone accidentally getting shocked by somehow touching a prong while it's being plugged in). Sounds good, but in practice it means that things very often get stuck plugged in due to the metal tips being off-center from the plastic. Be prepared to spend a moment wiggling it back and forth and pulling hard in order to get your device unplugged.
4) They're all so flimsy, circular, and smooth, that if you're not experience my point #3, the plugs are instead falling out at the slightest bump.

I really don't think I'm being amero-centric about this, as I'm always open to better ideas and ways of doing things. But having lived here for over 2 years now, I have to say these plugs drive me crazy sometimes.

Re:Aha! Time for my favorite indie design this yea

[Anonymous Coward]

Scroll down a bit on the GP's page. There's also an adapter that houses multiple plugs while they remain folded.

Honestly, that's quite a nice design.

17th Edition Wiring Regulations (UK)

[GuyFawkes]

http://www.theiet.org/publishing/books/wir-reg/17th-edition.cfm

Basically ALL electrical wiring, home or hotel or workplace, has to meet the standard.

Yes, UK plugs have fuses, sockets have switches, L/N are shielded, the plug has a cable anchor, and if you REALLY pull the wires out of the plug it is designed so the live, being shortest, comes out first.

But before the power gets to the socket it has to go through the "consumer unit" which carries RCD AND (over current) Breakers for each wiring loop.

People dying of electrocution in the UK is so rare I can't remember the last incident.

Re:17th Edition Wiring Regulations (UK)

[Noren]

Well, perhaps you haven't looked very hard, here's a news story from last month. In this case, "An inquest in Denbigh yesterday heard how the items were inspected by independent electrician Mike Redfern-Jones, who found no obvious faults."

Re:17th Edition Wiring Regulations (UK)

[Anonymous Coward]

People dying of electrocution in the UK is so rare I can't remember the last incident.

21 people died in 2002 according to:

http://esc.org.uk/business-and-community/statistics.html

So that'd be around one every 17 days on average, assuming that number has held up, and wasn't exceptional.

Maybe if you look through the last few week's papers.

Plug fuses are per-appliance

[tjwhaynes]

Then the electrician fucked up. He is supposed to know that breaker should not allow higher currents than the line and outlet can handle.

The electrician has no control on how many devices you hook up to the circuit. A circuit probably has 5 - 12 outlets/lights on it. The circuit breaker is protecting the entire circuit against current exceeding the safe range for the wiring. Per-plug fuses allow the manufacturer to place a lower limit per appliance - no reason why a TV would need more than a 5A fuse, whereas a kettle or microwave is probably pushing 10A+. Also, a light appliance (say a radio) probably has wiring that only copes with Cheers,
Toby Haynes

Re:Plug fuses are per-appliance

[Lonewolf666]

The electrician has no control on how many devices you hook up to the circuit. A circuit probably has 5 - 12 outlets/lights on it. The circuit breaker is protecting the entire circuit against current exceeding the safe range for the wiring.

Yes, that is the idea. And at least in Germany where I live, the outlets are usually designed to handle all of that current. In most cases, that means "schuko" outlets that can handle 16A, and a 16 A breaker.
Appliances with thinner wiring usually have their own fuses. A radio or TV set might have something like a 2A fuse, for instance. Built into the appliance itself, so you can be sure the fuse matches the appliance.

Re:Plug fuses are per-appliance

[jabuzz]

Wrong, the fuse in the plug is to protect the wire from the plug to the appliance from overheating and fire in the event of a short. A fuse in the appliance itself is of no use in this regards if the fault develops in the cable itself.

This is one of the reasons why the British system is unquestionably, electrically the safest system in the world at the moment.

Whether it is the *best* is another question entirely.

Re:Plug fuses are per-appliance

[uglyduckling]

Actually, that's not entirely true. A fuse in the appliance in series with the live/hot will protect the cable too, so long as it is a captive cable (i.e. can't be removed) and the fuse is correctly rated. There's no electrical difference between having a fuse in series with the live and locating it in the plug end of the circuit or the appliance end of the circuit. The problem comes with appliances such as a table lamp where there may not be anywhere to locate the fuse - when the British system was first brought in there were loads of table lamps with very long flex/cord and putting the fuse in the plug was the safest option.

Re:Plug fuses are per-appliance

[SenseiLeNoir]

Erm, you are wrong.....

1) if a short comes on in the cable, it is unlikely there will be MORE current going through the appliance, more likely LESS due to the fact that current will chose the path of least resistance through the short. The plug fuse will protect that.

2) plug fuses are more convenient. Modern appliances do not usually have accessible internal fuses, requiring you to open the appliance to access the fuse, voiding warranty, or exposing to danger (charged caps, etc). The fuse in the plug is very accesible, and in the case of a seperate cord, can be easily replaced

Re:Aha! Time for my favorite indie design this yea

[KonoWatakushi]

This looks brilliant, but I am curious if the plug can handle much current, given the tiny rotating sleeve type connections. Also, how durable are those connections?

Re:US vs UK... and AU, Italy, Denmark

[|TheMAN]

If you want to see it right side up, go to China ;)

Re:Aha! Time for my favorite indie design this yea

[Anonymous Coward]

holy crap that is the most amazing thing I have ever seen - this man needs some VC fast to bring this to the UK!

Voltage is different too

[rossdee]

So different countries have different plugs. They also have different voltages. Don't you think its a good idea to prevent appliances designed for 110VAC to be plugged into 220-249V outlets?

Re:Voltage is different too

[JustNiz]

All Euro countries run voltages around 230v, + or - about 10v, which is a small enough differnece that us Europeans can all plug our stuff in, in any Euro country just with an adapter and it works OK.

We actually like the fact that many yanks come over for a visit and blow all their equipment up. Its a little bit of payback for all the times that we have to deal with Americans so ignorant that they really believe the USA is better at everything, invented everything, won every war single-handed, and is also the centre of the whole universe.

Electrical socket jingoism

[Anonymous Coward]

Now I've seen it all.

Re:Aha! Time for my favorite indie design this yea

[Anonymous Coward]

ok, everything about that is fraking sweet.

Real Problem: Phase in, pun intended.

[omb]

This is a fairly simple EE design problem, to understand the issues you need just to understand four issues (a) center tapped 230V 3 phase, (b) Current density, (c) ground make first, (d) over-current prevention or fusing.

The UK plug is the most idiotic, since it makes room for a local fuse, in the plug, and assume that 13A is a nominative current drain; this is idiotic since the need to make room for a consumer changeable fuse, 13A slow-blow, makes the plug HUGE. It also assumes that the consumer will down-rate the plug fuse to obtain fusing descrimination (never happens, and if it does it is invalidated by the first idiot to change fuse, (no 3A use 13A). Thus both plugs and receptacles are too big.

[Beware] in the Arab World eg Saudi uk shape is used to indicate 130V 1/2 phase, half unknown !!! US 230 is 230V bi-phase, phase unknown !

EU Round and Swiss, round triangular, allow far closer packing, and are much more sensible with lights, TV, radio, computer ... No Fuse, is good

US 115/230 are also small, no fuse but 115 has no ground and 230 you dont know the polarity or phase without test gear.

Three old EE comments, transistors protect fuses, not the other way round,

Murphy is alive and well, UK fuses are are almost uniformly WRONGLY installed/replaced. The UK design is klunky and based in invalid prejudiced against round pin, which has been a solved problem for 50 years. With UK you do know polarity, but that is very easily tested with a multi-meter. The Swiss, but not the EU plug, which is reversible, enforce neutral continuity.

Everything >10A should be hard-wired or special, its too risky to allow reverse L/N incase N (only) gets fused

Local fusing never works for the normal average joe

Modern over-current, current balance, distribution is better, safer and allows the use of unfused plugs, with L/N balance and overcurrent detection do soft shutdown or force fuse blow at the discretion of the designer.

Re:Real Problem: Phase in, pun intended.

[Anonymous Coward]

It also assumes that the consumer will down-rate the plug fuse to obtain fusing descrimination (never happens, and if it does it is invalidated by the first idiot to change fuse, (no 3A use 13A). Thus both plugs and receptacles are too big.

Murphy is alive and well, UK fuses are are almost uniformly WRONGLY installed/replaced.

Mail it to 20 years ago. Virtually every appliance in the UK now and for many years previously comes with a pre-fitted plug with the correct fuse rating (by law). 99% of appliances are thrown out before their fuse blows even once. So nearly all UK appliances are at all times running with the correct fuse.

You might have had a point back in the past when every new appliance had to have a plug fitted before use, and 99% of the time it would be fitted with a 13A fuse. But those days are *long* gone. I've had to fit about 1 plug and change 1 plug fuse in the last ten years.

Re:Aha! Time for my favorite indie design this yea

[Chuck Chunder]

Doh!

Re:No, including non-earthed sockets was quite unf

[jo_ham]

No way. Unless you're talking about Henry VIII's plugs - before we had 13A 3-pin square, the UK used 5A 3-pin round, so in an ancient house with asbestos wiring you'll see sockets with three round pins

European plugs all wrong...

[imevil]

I have been traveling in Europe and especially in Italy and I can tell you the plugs are not really like that:

- what they call the "Euro Plug" is not a standard for real equipment. You'll never find for example a desktop computer with that plug. You can find mobile phone chargers and small equipment. There is no wall socket for this plug (except maybe still in Italy), as it fits the "real" Euro socket and the Swiss and some more.

- the real Euro plug is like the French, Czech or Italian for example (like this one: http://www.more-shop.co.uk/images/EUpccable.png). Of course some Countries in Europe do not comply (Switzerland for example: http://www.travelplugs.co.uk/products/uk/sw/sw1_200x150.jpg)

- the Italian plug they mention is not in use anymore and is being replaced by the above European plug. So Italy has 2 types of sockets (used to have 3).

- they forgot to mention that "hybrid" wall sockets exist in Europe. For instance you can accomodate both a Swiss plug and a (real) Euro plug, or in Italy, all the 3 types of plugs onto the same socket (it has both a ground pin and hole).

Article is mostly chauvinistic crap. I've been living in Europe, working there, in strict contact with electricians in several Countries. It is a mess and the standards change in space and time, you cannot just google "Euro plug" and pretend you know.

GFCI = RCD in UK, now required for whole house

[fantomas]

In the UK I think we call GFCI RCDs (Residual Current Devices). All new electrical installations, alterations and additions designed after 1st July 2008 for domestic houses have had to comply with the new BS 7671: 2008 requirements, and mean that RCDs now need to be provided to nearly all circuits within dwellings - at least, all those for use by 'ordinary persons'.

Basically any major electrical work done for about the last year and forwards means you need a new main consumer unit fitted to your house (the point where the single cable comes into your house and then splits off through the fuse box to the different circuits). The consumer unit has to have RCDs / GFCIs covering everything. Even the circuit that is dedicated to my little tiny front door electric bell needs one, as well as the lighting circuits and the mains power plug socket circuits.

Thailand Plugs

[Orion Blastar]

They are better than US plugs and can take two types of plugs. The US type plug and the round pins used in European and Asian countries.

I think having a plug system that is compatible with foreign plugs is a better system than the UK system which needs adapter plugs.

Also the US plug in the article is based on the plug system they had before the three prong grounded plug system. For washers and dryers we have the 220 volt plugs. We use 110 Volts because it saves energy for small appliances and use the 220 Volt plugs for the heavy duty stuff like washers and drivers and industrial machinery.

Why?

[Valdrax]

It's worse than that. I hate to spoil the ending for you but he comes to the conclusion that the British outlet is the greatest with a 10 out of 10 score. Why? Safety features. Features like shuttering and built in fuses. Both of which are optional on American outlets as well -- I'm sure -- as they are on outlets around the world. Maybe they're standard in the UK but they're optional in the US. I'd rather have the option than even more regulation.

Why?

I mean, I can see arguments for preferring a central fusebox or breaker panel, but I am completely flummoxed about why someone would prefer to have the option to go without shuttering. I mean, what advantage do you get other than the warm, fuzzy feeling of "You're not the boss of me!"

Re:Why?

[raju1kabir]

I mean, I can see arguments for preferring a central fusebox or breaker panel, but I am completely flummoxed about why someone would prefer to have the option to go without shuttering. I mean, what advantage do you get other than the warm, fuzzy feeling of "You're not the boss of me!"

If the pins weren't finger-sized, there wouldn't be such a need for shuttering.

The US sockets are small enough that you have to look around to find something to fit in there. If you're putting that much effort into it, surely you'll figure out how to defeat the shutter on a UK plug with a toothpick, pen, key, or whatever else you have lying around.

Multiple plug types per country

[wfolta]

The discussion seems to assume that each country/region has a SINGLE plug standard for households, with the only mixed-use being countries that have adopted the SINGLE plug standard from two different regions. (Not talking industrial use here, only household use.)

This is certainly not true in the US, where there is the standard 110v household plug (3-prong and upward-compatible 2-prong variations), and then the 220v heavier-duty plug which is used for things like washing machines. We're not talking heavier-duty industrial twist-lock kinds of plugs, but rather two plugs for two kinds of uses within a household. Obviously, only a select few plugs in a US house will be 220v, but then again only one or two items in a house might require 220v.

Perhaps Britain only has one kind of plug (220v) for all uses in the house? Which, as others have remarked, is rather overkill for laptops, lights, and most anything that you could actually pick up and carry yourself.

Danish and Thailand share plugs....

[Anonymous Coward]

Even living in Denmark I had no idea that we are sharing plugs with.... Thailand and nobody else. I have no idea why!

Voltage Danger

[omb]

Again, Slashdot nonsense,

I have been working on >= 130v for more than 80% of my lifetime, hints:

1. it isnt always voltage, 45V at INF amps, or eg a car battery can be VERY dangerous

2. <30V AC/DC pussy

3. You will feel 130VAC but it dosnt hurt and wont kill healthy people

4. 250V hurts DC>AC and is borderline dangerous, but I still get shocks at 65

5. 440VAC is potenially lethal, be very careful

6. 11,000 V+ I hope your affairs are in order, RIP, Insulated tools, gloves, rubber mat, one hand behind your back ...

Schuko ftw.

[Anonymous Coward]

Funny enough the Schuko wasn't even mentioned. Imho the best system. For small appliances you can use Euro plugs, for real stuff (even large transformer bricks) you have a very sturdy and secure connector. I don't get what people like about connectors going into a flat surface, it looks like a mechanical nightmare to me.

And about the fusing in the socket. What is that supposed to be good for? As long as your wiring is OK, which is to be expected if it was wired by someone qualified to do so, a breaker for each loop is sufficient. Especially since the thing actually saving your life in case of a short will be the circuit breaker checking for current on the ground line.

Also I don't get why people think that having 110Volt has any advantage. It increases the number of transformers needed as the losses on a 110V distribution system are much larger than on 220-230V, there also is no problem with small stuff, whoever tells you there is one doesn't know what he is talking about. The volt+frequency combination even lowers the conversion losses.

Oh, did I mention you can buy them with shutters, fuses, built-in surge protection and all kinds of funny stuff? (Shutters can even be bough separately (and can be inserted into the cavity without any problem), pretty common when you have small children and didn't have control over the installation).

australian plugs.

[Tomfrh]

I like the switch on Aussie sockets, but you have to be real careful to switch off unused sockets or a lot of electricity leaks out costing you $$$.

frankly this article is appaling

[petermgreen]

Frankly this article is appaling

* The danish system and some variants of the italian system have the dangerous characteristic of accepting german and french earthed plugs but not earthing them!
* There is no mention of the german and french earthed plugs at all
* Putting europlugs into british sockets is NOT TO BE RECCOMENDED. They may well be protected by only a 30A rewirable fuse

The plug innovation will not arrive...

[Venerence]

until Apple releases their greedy mitts over the smartest (dc) plug ever invented. http://www.tomsguide.com/us/apple-patent-laptop,news-964.html

Do you guys ever read Engineering Specs ???

[omb]

3 phase transmission systems mainly use earth (as opposed to system ground) returns; the US 3 phase transformers are all common centre taped to earth, in europe neutral is an earth tap at the transformer, isolated from the transformer. So, if you measure AT the transformer, in Europe, N===E, but not away from the transformer. In the US neutral is, by definition, building (not transformer) earth.

Re:Aha! Time for my favorite indie design this yea

[petermgreen]

The plug was designed so that as well as unfolding to plug into british sockets it could plug into special sockets while still folded.

Not that I think they have much chance of getting it past the regulators and produced in sufficiant quantities to make a difference. The article doesn't even make it clear if they have a functioning prototype yet or just mockups.

110V is lethal

[confused one]

For all those idiots who keep saying 110/120 V is not lethal, I have a classmate whose father would like to disagree with you (but he can't because he is dead).

110 vs. 220.

[HornWumpus]

110 has higher line losses which causes heating and is a fire hazard.

220 is much more dangerous if a person completes the circuit.

The first thing asked at the ER in an electrocution is what was the voltage. Under 220 and you are low priority. If you lived through the shock the damage is very likely minor.

Re:110 vs. 220.

[R2.0]

I've been hit by 120 a couple of times and REALLY didn't like it. But an electrician I worked with described getting hit with 208 (2 legs of a 3 phase system) - there is simply no comparison.

Re:Aha! Time for my favorite indie design this yea

[Marcika]

Min-Kyu Choi's Folding UK style plug. All the goodness of the UK plug, none of the bulky crap. http://www.minkyu.co.uk/Site/Product/Entries/2009/4/20_Folding_Plug_System.html

Amazing! Can you buy them anywhere, or is it just a drool-over-it prototype?

UK plug needs a complete redesign

[funkboy]

If the standard UK mains plug is so great, then why did an industrial designer have to come up with this innovation in order to make it fit into the same non-humongous form factor as plugs from other countries?

Immature review/plugs in china

[Anonymous Coward]

I had hoped this would be a thoughful review.
Instead it was a childish, idiotic, uninformed stupid article, extremely low on factoids and very high on quips.

I do agree with the final verdict. The british style plug is very solid. I haven't actually seen the wall portion of that style plug though.

In china the wall plugs have the ability to simultaneously take an aussie style on the bottom and a 2 spade american or double round (not euro) above (for wall warts/laptop chargers). So they get the best of multiple worlds without having to be idiotically smug about it.

I like the aussie style. It's hard to screw up plugging it in, it seems reasonable to manufacture price wise (both plug and socket), seems pretty durable, and is able to take plenty of power. Likely it may win in price/performance.

You fail ohms law

[seanadams.com]

First of all, current kills, not potential difference (=voltage). Both 110 and 220V are plenty to overcome the resistance of the human body so from that perspective there's hardly a difference.

Yes, current kills... about 0.1 amps across the chest cavity would be lethal. So does it make any difference whatsoever if the outlet is rated for 15 A @ 220 vs 30 amps at 110? No.

Ohms law: I = V/R

Current is proportional to voltage. On contact with 220V, all else being equal, DOUBLE the current goes through your body as compared to 110V. That's double the pain, or half the skin resistance needed to be lethal. This is simple ohms law, it is NOT a situation like a spark gap where there is some threshold to "overcome" the resistance. Also, skin resistance is not a fixed value, it depends on moisture, the amount of contact area, and the amount of pressure on contact.

Re:You fail ohms law

[seanadams.com]

So does it make any difference whatsoever if the outlet is rated for 15 A @ 220 vs 30 amps at 110? No.

Er, let me rephrase:

So does it make any difference whatsoever if the outlet is rated for 15 A vs 30 A? No. It's only the voltage that matters.

african kid who made a GFCI from ... nails

[ChrisCampbell47]

Making the rounds of the blogs and TV shows is the story of William Kamkwamba, a young man from Malawi who, at age 14, taught himself enough about electricity to build a windmill generator for his house. But what kills me is that he made a GFCI from ... nails, wire and a magnet. Look at this video of his appearance on The Daily Show last month, specifically starting 2 minutes in, and note his description of what it does. (here's a picture) He calls it a circuit breaker, but that is functionally actually a GFCI! Jesus H. Christ, that is brilliant!

UK has the best !

[dUN82]

My credit goes to the UK, which has a fuse in the socket, also, the attached cable always facing downwards to save space, you can also buy ultra flat socket to make even more close to the wall, which really helps when you don't want leave a margin between your table/bed and the wall. Also, all wall socket in the UK has a safety switch which you turn-off before you plug / unplug, and it holds the plug much more tightly in comparison with the US plug.

Fire, not electrocution

[Roger W Moore]

It is house fires, not electrocution, that is the problem. The fuse stops excessive currents causing fires, the better design prevents shorts and the higher voltage reduces currents. For the US electrical fires are the third leading cause of house fires and the second leading cause of fire deaths (Google "leading cause house fires" - many pages). However I cannot find any statistics for the leading UK causes nor actual rates of fires with causes for more accurate comparisons between the US and UK.

Re:Fire, not electrocution

[geekoid]

Because many hits = statement is true?

I call it the Google Fallacy.

Re:Fire, not electrocution

[jabuzz]

It is in the region of 700-800 deaths a year total in the UK from electrical problems. That is from electrocution to house fires.

Re:Really?

[orudge]

I think it's 15 to 20 years. I'm sure it was made illegal to sell domestic appliances without a plug. Manufactures used to sell things without plugs to cut costs and improve profits. The shops didn't mind because wiring plugs was a nice easy money spinner for them.

Additionally, depending on the layout of your kitchen, for instance, you'd would often have to take the plug off to pass it through the worktop to reach the socket. That, or have it plugged into an awkward location underneath the worktop. So it would often not hurt to supply the appliance without a plug, which could be easily bought separately anyway.

Brazil got it

[luizd]

I think this "no one" is Brazil. Starting in Jan/2010, all electric devices will use this new plug.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60906-1
http://translate.google.com.br/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=pt-BR&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.inmetro.gov.br%2Fpluguesetomadas%2Fduvidas.asp&sl=pt&tl=en&history_state0=

Re:Really?

[jrumney]

It's a single UK standard plug and that's it and has been since I can remember (I'm 40).

Ever bought an electric shaver? The UK standard plug for bathroom appliances looks a little like the Europlug, but the pins are thicker and closer together, so it won't fit into a standard socket with the paperclip in the earth pin trick. And the adapters you can buy for them in the local pound shop clearly state "for foreign use only", because there is no way they can comply with any safety standard, with such fat holes (the width of a two year old's little finger) and no earth pin to open a gate, hence no gates.

Re:Aha! Time for my favorite indie design this yea

[aaarrrgggh]

That is actually really cool. It does a lot to make up for all the problems in the UK design... I wonder if it would pass an electrical safety testing.

This is just one plug of many

[Neanderthal Ninny]

The standard electrical power wall receptacle/plug (NEMA 5-15R/P) is one of many that NEMA and IEC specifies this shows only a single sample of an electrical power device which biases the whole story. I worked in England in a data center over there we had and they have several drawbacks on their higher voltage and amperage devices as standard device. However, most countries do use the IEC standard for their high voltage and amperage devices.

Here are some of NAME "straight blade" devices:
http://www.stayonline.com/reference-nema-straight-blade.aspx

Here are some of NEMA locking devices:
http://www.stayonline.com/reference-nema-locking.aspx

Here are some of IEC devices:
http://www.stayonline.com/reference-iec309-north-american.aspx

Re:Aha! Time for my favorite indie design this yea

[initialE]

I like how the thing folds, and there's no way to plug it in wrong and all. I don't like how flimsy and easily broken it's gonna be.

NEMA?

[EricX2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEMA_connector

The US doesn't have one standard plug, at least not in data centers.

Article author is seriously uninformed.

[tiqui]

For one thing, nearly every US residence is wired for 220 and Americans have 220V standard wiring, plugs and sockets. Americans only waste the extra resources on beefier wiring, plugs, sockets, and breakers where actually needed: between the main panel and large items like ovens, washers, dryers, table saws, etc. We do not need to run 220 lines and use massive plugs for our MP3 players, Televisions, radios, etc.Rather than putting a fuse into every power cord, Americans have been moving from an already good combination of fuses/breakers in devices and breakers in the main panel to arc-fault breakers in the main panel. With arc-fault breakers in the main panel, Americans have safer wiring in their homes than they would have with fused plugs; Arc-fault breakers protect against normal shorts (like fuses or normal breakers), ground faults (like the GFI breakers) and arcing (like from frayed wires, nails driven through wires in the walls etc.)

Americans can get sockets with safety shutters in them if they choose to, rather than because their government forces them to... we call this freedom; most of us are smart enough not to kill ourselves with our plugs and outlets.

British plugs with their massive prongs and built-in fuses are more akin to weapons used in the Roman circus than to consumer-friendly, low-cost, easy to store, and easy to use American plugs :-P

American buildings are also not wired in loops like many European buildings. The simple robust scheme in the US makes it so that people in the US can be trusted to do their own wiring work, which is something many Europeans (including the UK article author) are not legally permitted to do. An American can wire his basement with rugged but inexpensive parts and check the work with a simple $10 circuit checker; A Brit must hire somebody to wire his basement and then the installation must be certified with an expensive professional test device

Re:Article author is seriously uninformed.

[ChameleonDave]

Americans can get sockets with safety shutters in them if they choose to, rather than because their government forces them to... we call this freedom.

A sad indictment.

Re:Article author is seriously uninformed.

[Vegeta99]

Well, where I'm at, I can sure do the wiring myself, but then I gotta pay some slack-jawed yokel some $50 to come check it for me and put his lil' yokel stampy that says I did it right. My township? Population 300.

You Moron!

[woolio]

I looked into it when the electrical code forced me to replace the illegally retrofitted three conductor grounded outlets in my house with ground-fault circuits. It didn't make any sense to me without a ground... but lo and behold, they do indeed work with no ground at all.

I think you caught the mouse but missed the 1000lb gorilla in the room.

Yes, GFCI protection will work without ground. But the ground wire was invented long before GFCI devices were used.

Imagine something goes wrong in your computer's power supply that causes the 120V wire to touch the side of the power supply case. The power supply case is touching the metal case your motherboard,etc are in. Imagine you touch the side of the case to turn the computer on.

Well, the power supply and case are connected to the ground plug on your electrical cord. Two possiblities happen:
- Your ground wire is connected to neutral at the circuit breaker panel (and only there, no where else!). You do not get electrocuted. If you have a GFCI, it will trip. If you don't, the current will be fairly high (a few amps), and either the powersupply gets fried [and melts whatever is shorting] or the circuit breaker trips (not likely).

- Your ground wire is not connected at your outlet. YOU get fried. If you are lucky, the GFCI will trip *after* several milliamps are flowing through your body. [Hint, a few milliamps for a brief instant can be deadly]

Now you are probably thinking. Well if ground and neutral are connected at the circuit breaker panel, you can be lazy and connect the outlet's ground to the netural [and not run a separate ground wire]. That way you don't get fried. Except you will largely disable GFCI protection (to an extent). But even worse things than that happen. Imagine something causes a device's "hot" wire is connected but the "neutral" is not. Well, if device and outlet are grounded properly, its not so bad, the current will return through the ground wire and the case, etc will be at zero potential. But if someone wires the ground to the neutral and the fault occurs, then the case is immediately raised to 120V potential (whether it is a metallic lamp or a computer). YOU get fried.

There are probably other considerations. I'm an electrical enginner, not an electrican. I can tell you this: don't play games with grounding. It ain't worth it.

Re:You Moron!

[Dr. Evil]

Ugh. Don't go calling people morons in a subject you don't know anything about.

1. This house was built long before ground wires were used.
2. The ground is nowhere near as protective as you think it is.
3. This is perfectly legal, perfectly safe, and was a REQUIREMENT of my inspection.

If you're in North America, go read the local electrical code before commenting on house wiring. I can't comment if you're in an area with 240VAC, they're more strict about electrocution hazards.

Also do some thinking about your imaginary computer power supply malfunction on a non-GFIC protected outlet. All case-grounded appliances on the circuit are now case-live. Somebody leans on a radiator to plug in a fully functional case-ground vacuum cleaner. Now there's a secondary path from live on the computer, through the shared ground, into the case of the vacuum, through the right arm, through the chest, down the left arm and through the radiator going to ground.

Current doesn't travel the path of least resistance, it shares the paths. Your ground wires are not super-conductors, so while they'll create a secondary path to ground, they won't negate a third path.

That said, ungrounded outlets are not desirable. They're not safe for (unless they have a working GFIC), and they mess up shielding for devices like guitar amplifiers. They also don't have a discharge path for static electricity.

And BTW, if you short live to ground, you *will* blow the breaker unless your ground is installed improperly.

Re:You Moron!

[gmarsh]

GFCI's are fast - they're required to interrupt current within a fraction of an AC cycle. The effect of this is that you only get a "pulsed DC" shock, which is a whole lot better than several cycles of AC you'd ordinarily get which can do bad things like introduce irregular heart rhythms.

My uncle is a retired electrician, and is about as old-school as you'd get. To test if a wire was live, he'd carefully touch it with the tip of his finger - if he got a small shock, he knew there was AC present. One time he demonstrated to me how a GFCI works by jamming a flat-head screwdriver into the hot side of the outlet and touching the screwdriver shaft with his finger. The outlet tripped and he didn't even flinch. Since then, I've been sold on the things.

Anyway, I'm also an EE, and I've designed a few pieces of equipment that plug into 120V and had to be certified for CSA/UL/whatnot. There's two classes of device.

- 120V, 2-prong devices (Class II) have to be double insulated and pass a hi-pot test between the AC input and any secondary electrical connectors, or metal surfaces, on the device. These don't operate without a ground, so they're obviously safe if they're plugged into a 3-prong-yet-ungrounded outlet.

- 120V, 3-prong devices (Class I) require that their chassis is connected to electrical earth ground. Double insulation isn't required and no hi-pot is required. Assuming that the earth ground is OK, Class I devices are very safe. But remove the earth ground and weird things start to happen.

First of all, most class I devices have Y capacitors between hot/neutral and ground to shunt conducted EMI. Assuming these are equal value, neutral is grounded at the panel and there's no other current paths (connections between the equipment and other grounds, etc) they act as a capacitive divider and will cause the chassis to float at 60VAC. The impedance behind this 60VAC is quite high, but it is capacitive - if you touch the case at just the right moment, you'll effectively have a 85VDC-charged capacitor in the 1-10nF range discharged into you. This likely won't hurt you, but you will get a tingle.

Also, if the device is a PC and you start plugging other peripherals in it, they'll get the same "shock". Fortunately most connectors (D-subs, USB, etc) connect their grounds before connecting any signal lines so the chassis ground carries the current, and Ethernet provides galvanic isolation which protects that, but there's a chance you'll fry your peripherals and/or PC if it's grounded wrong.

A GFCI won't correct this. It'll protect you from a bad shock, but that's pretty much it.

In summary, if your device has a ground pin, MAKE SURE IT'S GROUNDED.

Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics

[mdmkolbe]

First, the wikipedia page you reference was the one on Electric Shock not the one on Electrocution.

Second, neither of the statistics you quote specify the source of the electric shock. Are the from contact with a socket? Power lines outside a house? Industrial power cables in a factory? Lightning strike? To know which socket is safer, you would have to restrict ourselves to shocks from a socket.

Finally, the UK statistic you quote only refers to work related deaths so it says nothing about the safety of your sockets at home.

Dont even have to read the article. UK wins easily

[BlueParrot]

I'm not from the UK but I have lived and visited many countries, and the UK plug EASILY wins. In particular:

a)Good grounding is pretty much standard

b)It is very solid. Many EU and US plugs you can accidentally bend and damage quite easily.

c)The vast majority of them are fused

d)It has a relatively slim profile and fits easily even in cramped spaces.

e)The contacts are flat pins with a large surface area, giving good contact.

f)They attach firmly into the socket so you are very unlikely to pull them out by accident

Seriously, if you have any experience with electronics and travel to Britain you are quite likely to end
up wondering "why don't we do plugs this way back home?". It's just one of those things where
you can do thing "the right way" and you can do them "the wrong way". The British did it "the right way"
and pretty much everybody else cocked it up somehow.

Re:Aha! Time for my favorite indie design this yea

[sych]

Woman.

USA USA USA USA

[Anonymous Coward]

Used the British Plugs and I hate them.

1. They are massive. Ever seen a power strip for those? they suck.
2. They are a bitch to pull out of and put into most sockets I have used.(Normally power strip or brick.)
3. A fuse in the damn socket is stupid. Now I have to replace the fuse. American standard = flick the breaker.

UK Plugs

[alantus]

The first thing that comes to my mind when I remember my trip to the UK is not the Buckingham Palace, the British Museum or the red buses.
Its those freaking huge plugs together with their freaking huge power racks.
Really, what where they thinking?

I've never had any problems with the US style plugs, after seeing the european, british and japanese plugs (which are like the US but with a small aberration), I don't know why people complain so much.

Yawn. Dribble

[Anonymous Coward]

Australia.
Like so much of Australian culture, Aussie plugs take their cues from both the Great British plug socket and that useless slacker, the American power outlet. You can see the confusion in Australia over the origin of its culture. On the one hand they drive cars that are largely American in their hoggish sensibilities. On the other, they drive on the left and have a legal system based on English common law. They also make use of our Queen. But because the men and women of Australia are real men and women, they also have 240V mains supplies. They need this to power their sheep-shearing equipment, so it's hardly a surprise they didn't consider that laughable 110V system of our friends in the US. It's hard for us to hate the Australian system too much. It's a three-pronged affair, they generally have switches on the wall socket for extra awesomeness and, most important of all, their sockets look like surprised faces. Surprised faces are almost as awesome as happy ones -- extra points to the upside-down folk here. But not many.

Wow, great insight there. Your analysis is astounding.

Re:Yawn. Dribble

[Anonymous Coward]

Plus the graphic given in the header is upside down

Re:Yawn. Dribble

[SJ2000]

The graphic featured as the Australian plug is the Chinese plug, though it's compatible with the Australian one AFAIK.

Waste of time.

[dsavi]

This was in all honesty a very stupid article. It's supposed to be funny- But it isn't, if I understand it right it's supposed to be in some way informative- But it's biased. My vote at the moment would go to the European plug. It's reversible, even with ground and stays where it should- Unlike the Danish plug. If you pull on it a little bit accidentally- For example by pulling a vacuum cleaner a bit too far- It comes out and your vacuum stops. Not exactly as ingenious as this useless article said.

Australian plugs don't face that way!

[Anonymous Coward]

ROAR! The illustration of the Australian socket is upside-down! Jeez, the English need to get it right.

Re:Australian plugs don't face that way!

[Anonymous Coward]

Well Australia IS on the upside-down portion of the Earth. What'd you expect?

Re:No. so much for nationalism

[kubitus]

and it all goes back to Konrad Zuse, who's patents were taken over by IBM.

UK power plug - not bad - but I love RJ45

[kubitus]

and its family members RJ11 and all the others

please give a price to the man or people who designed a plug so simple and effective!

Re:UK power plug - not bad - but I love RJ45

[Miamicanes]

> and its family members RJ11 and all the others
> please give a price to the man or people who designed a plug so simple and effective!

Are we talking about the same plug with that horrid plastic tab that inevitably breaks off if it gets repeatedly connected and disconnected? I think THAT plug must have been invented by the same person who designed the inevitably-broken hinges for a CD jewelbox...

Don't even get me STARTED about RJ-45 and TIA-968A/B... same fragile plastic tab, with the added bonus of a wiring order that requires you somehow keep the wires tightly twisted to the last millimeter, yet somehow untwist enough of orange to flank blue & blue-white and get the whole thing to go in straight...

NSFW

[dangitman]

The shroud engages the enclosing slot before the pins make contact.

Oh, yes, baby. You're making me hot! How about a little three-phase action? C'mon, you know you like it when the electrons flow.

Type E/F hybrid

[Anonymous Coward]

Why isn't there more focus on the Type E/F hybrid for France, Benelux & so on?

It's a fairly decent system and not very bulky and it is backwards compatible for things without ground?

Re:Aha! Time for my favorite indie design this yea

[Anonymous Coward]

Min-Kyu Choi's Folding UK style plug. All the goodness of the UK plug, none of the bulky crap.

Now *that* is a *$%@ing clever idea.

our power plugs are excellent.

[XCondE]

Is he trolling? Have you seen the size of a British plug? It takes a foot-long power board to plug maybe 3 of the suckers!

And for all of you excited with the built-in fuse: we don't need it. Our houses weren't wired in the middle of WWII when copper was scarce and dodgy installations were the rule.

GDR design reloaded

[Anonymous Coward]

US american power socket and light switch designs always reminded me of 1970s east german design nightmares.

Re:GDR design reloaded

[Miamicanes]

Actually, Leviton has done some wonderful things within the constraints of the single-gang Decora formfactor. Half the light switches in my house have two or three mini paddle switches that flip left and right that are either 1/2 or 1/3 the size of a standard Decora-style switch. Pass & Seymour have similar switches that flip up and down (THEIR 3-switch variant has a half-height switch on top, and two half-height half-width switches on the bottom).

2-switch -- http://www.westsidewholesale.com/media/catalog/product/cache/2/image/5e06319eda06f020e43594a9c230972d/8/6/861517-1_11.jpg
3-switch -- http://ak.buy.com/db_assets/large_images/253/90140253.jpg
P&S 3-switch -- http://www.homeandbeyond.com/prod-0085785-zoom.html

Although my original motivation was to avoid replacing the single-gang switchboxes with double- or triple-gang boxes, I've since come to actually prefer them. To me, my brother's newly-built house with 4-6 normal Decora-style paddle switches in a row just seems kind of tacky by comparison... even moreso when you consider that half the switches in each group hardly ever get used, and with that many switches in a row you literally have to stop and think which switch controls the main kitchen lights, as opposed to the undercabinet lights, the cove accent lights, the spotlights over the snackbar, etc.

There IS one lingering problem in America, though... what to do about prewired speaker connectors. A full-sized single-gang plate with two binding posts is WAY too big and looks horrible, but there really isn't any smaller variant that's just big enough for two binding posts. So... anyone who's prewiring for speakers ends up with two choices: put a (relatively) HUGE single-gang box with full-sized blank plate over it, or just bore a hole in the wall and pull the wires through when the day comes to install the speakers. I have more than a few friends who ended up just drilling a hole and pulling the wire pair through, and it was PRECISELY because there really isn't any good appropriately-sized alternative available in America.

Wooosh!

[PMBjornerud]

You suspect humour? I suspect that Americans do not understand it at all! I was laughing all the way! But maybe that's because I'm British and I understand that this is really just a complete piss take on the rest of the world.

I'm not British, but I cringe reading the comments here and wonder why on earth this whole story haven't been tagged "Wooosh!" yet.

Seems irony is becoming a lost art...

Re:Aha! Time for my favorite indie design this yea

[zwarte piet]

Looks awesome. But my browser warns that it requires extra plugins.

powermat

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwkKkLDhAJ0

Two hands or one

[SgtChaireBourne]

Thanks to the electrical manufacturers, "shuttering" is no longer optional for residential installations that follow NEC 2008 or later (406.11).

Using two hands to push the shutters open makes it more likely the current goes across the heart when the kid does succeed in pushing in the nail, wire, screwdriver, pen or whatnot.

Light sockets need more work...

[Anonymous Coward]

I dont know if it's just because im a geek or because my dad was an electrician but I remember trying put screwdrivers in wall sockets, and I even plugged in a lead attached to light socket minus bulb and then stuck my finger into it. After I picked myself up from the other side of the room my sister kept shouting 'you're gonna die, you're gonna die which made the experience even worse. I never managed to get any pieces of wire into the socket thanks to the shields it took a hell of a lot of effort on my part to electrocute myself as a child and therefore I would have to agree British sockets are the best, but light sockets need more work.

Re:No, including non-earthed sockets was quite unf

[sirwired]

Errr... last time I went to the UK, most bathrooms had a 2-pin "shaver" plug.

Was I imagining things?

SirWired

This must be a joke, but why...

[Anonymous Coward]

did it make the front page of /.? It's got to be a joke since there absolutely no technical reasons given for why one plug configuration is any better than another other than some comment about some apple plug falling out of a wall socket, but if that happens you likely need the socket replaced. The only numbers he actually drops IIRC is the 110V US/Japan/Canada/elsewhere, w/o mentioning current IIRC.

He forgot to add eventually, when talking about the English healthcare system and getting treatment. Of course eventually only applies if you don't croak before they get around to treating you. Just ask the Canadians, and why so many of them head south for treatment or pay for private testing, etc. rather than waiting a year or more for, oh little things like MRIs...

Also speaking of the Canadian he forgot to lambaste them along with Australians, since their plugs are identical to the US, along with their power grid.

Now as to some higher powered appliances some are talking about, well there are residential 220V and up lines in the US/Canada/etc. as well typically installed for specific appliances, as well as higher current lines usually about 15-20A for those as well IIRC, but they're so rarely needed...

Re:No, including non-earthed sockets was quite unf

[jimicus]

Ah, wasn't thinking about shaver sockets.

That's the only 2 pin socket you'll see, and it's also the only type of socket you're allowed in a bathroom.

The reason it's allowed is that built into that socket is an isolating transformer.

No appliance other than something that's intended to live in the bathroom (a shaver or an electric toothbrush charger, usually) will plug into it.

Was this meant to be funny?

[rebelwarlock]

I'm guessing from the writer's style that this article was meant to be funny, but it comes off as unprofessional and condescending. Also, I didn't laugh. This article failed to achieve anything it was going for.

Re:Really?

[makomk]

The UK standard plug for bathroom appliances looks a little like the Europlug, but the pins are thicker and closer together

Yeah, it's some old legacy standard, apparently. Most shaver sockets are cross-compatible anyway.

And the adapters you can buy for them in the local pound shop clearly state "for foreign use only", because there is no way they can comply with any safety standard, with such fat holes (the width of a two year old's little finger) and no earth pin to open a gate, hence no gates.

The proper UK shaver adapters have shutters on the holes, even if they're not particularly effective ones. I'm guessing the pound shop was cheaping out.

ADAPTERS

[garethharris]

Adapters are even funnier, unless you step on one. Not only are all these plugs and mating jacks bad, but the combinations in adapters are truly sick, look like alien babies, nescafé?

Plug tattoo

[Goner]

I have a plug tattoo. Three pronged American style. I was in a band called plug. I like my tattoo.

That is all.

Volts vs amps

[sjbe]

I've noticed the "warm wire" problem on lots of high wattage appliances.

It's real but if the wire is of sufficient gauge you'll be less likely to notice it. Basically any time you send current down a copper wire there are some losses to resistive heating. This is why you don't want to buy cheap little flimsy extension cords for high power applications. With a small wire there is less area to dissipate the heat and with sufficient current the wire can even melt. When we design it that way it is called a fuse. When we don't it is called a lawsuit. :-)

However, the added safety of only using 110 VAC rather than 220 is probably worth a little wasted energy in wire heating.

It's not the volts that will kill you, it's the amps. Amperage is the actual electron flow - somewhat like the actual water flowing in a pipe. Voltage is a measure of the tendency of the electrons to flow - vaguely analogous to water pressure. A stun gun has 20000 volts but very little amperage and so it doesn't fry you. Power = Volts * Amps so if the power coming down the line is equal the 220 line is actually a little bit safer. (both can easily kill you though so it's really a mute point)

Re:Volts vs amps

[ShooterNeo]

They both CAN kill you but as other posters have pointed out, 110 VAC just doesn't have enough push behind it to electrocute you in a lot of common situations. 220 VAC does. As evidenced by the significantly higher death rate from electrocution in the UK, referenced in another post on this thread.

Sure, sure, it's amps that kill. I knew that. (actually, that's also wrong : it's ENERGY DELIVERED that kills, which is equal to volts * amps * time or per unit time sometimes)

However, it seems in a lot of common situations, it's easier for 220 VAC to kill you than 110.

Fire NOT electrocution

[Roger W Moore]

The issue is less electrocution and far more fires. How many deaths are due to fires caused by electrical faults? The small pins and low voltage (so large currents) lead to far more heating. With 110V you might be safer from electrocution but that won't be much of a consolation if your house burns down with you in it!

Re:Fire NOT electrocution

[Anonymous Coward]

I thought someone might bring up electrical fires. True, they're also a problem, but from USFA:

During a typical year, home electrical problems account for 67,800 fires, 485 deaths, and $868 million in property losses. Home electrical wiring causes twice as many fires as electrical appliances.

The second quoted sentence indicates that two-thirds of the 485 annual deaths are caused by wiring itself, leaving a little over 160 deaths per year to other causes (I ignored injuries & property damage because we previously only discussed death stats). As with electrocutions, problems with the plug/outlet are certain to be a small subset of those, although I couldn't find any statistics that specific. The US 110v socket/plug just doesn't overheat easily, unless the device itself is damaged or poorly made (best to make sure it's UL approved before buying); overheating to the kindling point of the insulation or nearby material is very unlikely. I still feel the existing plugs pose a reasonable level of risk.

And I reread my earlier post - I didn't intend to be sarcastic about the helmet/Kevlar question. But it does starkly illuminate the safety/convenience trade-off.

- T

Re:Fire NOT electrocution

[Roger W Moore]

The US 110v socket/plug just doesn't overheat easily

Based on experience staying in US and Canadian hotels I would strongly disagree with that. However I will admit that I don't know whether that is attributable to a poor plug design or a the hotels not following the relevant standards - either way it is a noticeable problem.

But it does starkly illuminate the safety/convenience trade-off.

True but how much inconvenience is a slightly larger plug? Far, far less inconvenient that wearing a crash helmet or kevlar vest (which, since there are not that many shooting deaths in Europe, would be pretty much useless in any case). Indeed if you compare it to the death rate from cycling (784 in the US in 2005) and factor in that just under half of cycle deaths are due to head injuries and that a bicycle helmet would only offer effective protection in ~70% of the head injury cases. The result is a comparable number to the effect of having safer plugs and yet nobody seems to bat an eye at suggesting that everyone use bike helmets. Besides I am sure that now, given advances in material science and design we could come up with a plug just as safe as the UK one but which is less bulky.

Re:Fire NOT electrocution

[Anonymous Coward]

Good points all around, although the last time I experienced a hot plug was my fault - I used a 16ga extension cord instead of a 14ga cord when I first used my electric dethatcher. The 14ga cord solved that problem, and the only times I can recall encountering a hot plug on anything else for the last decade or so were all extension cords that were old or too thin. Not dismissing your experience, just adding mine.

I suspect most Americans wouldn't mind safer plugs if they were really safer - the new shuttered outlets mandated by the 2008 NEC (my original complaint) aren't a real improvement IMO, and they certainly don't address the issues you've raised with the size of the prongs and protection from arcing. Naturally, most of us would complain about the cost of retrofitting (I'm assuming adapters which would allow appliances/devices having new plugs to be used in old outlets would be disallowed, else the safety gains wouldn't be realized for many years). OTOH, we do tend to overvalue convenience on this side of the pond.

Peace,
- T

UK vs Europlugs

[aCC]

First of all, I can't believe that so many people missed the humour of the article. It was meant to be FUNNY! But maybe it's too much of a British humour.

Living in London (weekends) and in Germany (working week), it's very clear to me that the UK plug is terrible. Many reasons:
1. The plug is HUGE. Why are all other plugs in the world smaller and still safe?
2. It has stupid fuses that need replacement. Why do none of the other plugs in the world need them?
3. It is terrible when travelling. Best to keep the Euro or US cables for travelling.
4. It can only plug in one way.
5. Why the hell do you need a switch on a socket? Is this a reason why the sockets are so big?

The plug just fits perfectly with some other British idiosyncracries such as the separate cold and hot water taps. You either burn your hands or freeze them. Ridiculous that this old system is still so much in use in the UK.

You can't beat British humour though (like this article showed).