How is it ripping off? They give credit to the originators. Firefox is open source (so its allowable). And they aren't the first to do this - --- google branded a firefox version. So how does that make these guys any different?
Were you in an indoor sauna? You had a buffer - the "gym" facility - possibly getting dressed? I believe these guys sit in an outside natural spring - get totally toasty - and then get up and run and jump in freezing cold water. 20 degrees could easily make a difference (are you talking 20 degrees centigrade or farenheit?).
I don't necessarily buy the deal that only those who put their lives in danger are heroes. A hero (imho) is anyone who exemplifies the best qualities that we are all capable of.
A person who traverses hardship and diversity - to do the right thing- at their own expense is a hero.
Examples of heroes:
Teachers - they give up much better paying careers to deal with us as little kids - and todays kids can be even worse
Parents - A good parent is a hero to many. Especially when we see that there are many parents who run away or who do a substandard job.
Mentor - someone giving of their own time to help someone else.
I like the broad term of hero as it rewards people who do things in their own way to make life better. This by no means should devalue the meaning of hero for people who risk their lives for other people --- in fact, it should increase its value by giving it an extra positive meaning.
000. Find out where the list is
001. Go swimming in cold fricken waters (where sharks with laser beams don't even go)
002. Get yourself turned into a diamond.
There was a line at the restroom (for the guys this time) after the movie...I kept enjoying the more and more endings (though a lot of tear-jerking) but man, my bladder was crying...
Because lying would make me have to do some work by being creative and thinking up of the lie, it's scenarios, and counters to questions. Again - I have to create things that didn't happen and then remember them AND finally recite the lie. Since a lie is something that sprung up from my mind, it does not have the reality support (touch, taste, smell, sight, etc.)
Now, if I told the truth, I just had to recite something that I remembered. A few less steps that are supported by reality...
Not always true. Sometimes the media gets a hold of breaking news material and publishes it before it gets a chance to have peer-reviews. THis is good and bad. It is good because it helps get funding early - its bad because it is not peer reviewed and builds up more hope then may be deserved.
So its legal to rip but not to distribute? That is fine and I think that if ripping is the ONLY thing the end-users were doing that organizations like the MPAA and RIAA would have no problem with it. In all honesty, their problems stem from the millions of files that are traded *DAILY* without any money going to the companies that produced this material. It does not matter if we disagree with the price, their marketing, or if we should be able to share it or not....we did not create it and we do not hold any copyright's over it - they do.
So some of these rules they setup with their EULA's, laws, etc are valid because they are sueing people and winning.
1) Yes. I purchased Neverwinter nights. It didn't play right on my old computer. I went to a DIFFERENT store (same company, different location), without a receipt (credit card purchase) - and got a full refund. I spoke to a manager - took me all of 15 minutes. Whats your point.
2) Give a ridiculous scenario completely rigged so only your answer could apply and get a ridiculous answer. Verbal agreements are binding contracts - they can and do hold up in court. However, in this case - no verbal agreement is needed - you clicked YES so you could install the program.
3)It is very good...if you ask the salesperson for the specific terms and agreements of the warranty he will look at you like a deer in headlights. Do you think the sales person knows that in paragraph 3, line 4 it states XYZ terms? Hence, that is why the employee will not know warranty terms (the paper version of the EULA).
You are correct, some rights cannot be signed away (dummy laws). You do have the right to return the package (dummy law) - you do not have the right to hack and slash the software and think that you "own" it, because you don't.
I haven't bought into any bullshit, and I at least try not to spread more. I am consumer aware. THat is why I have ZERO problems when returning software to a store (or any other product). I also realize that once I click YES I agree to their terms and agreement...just because you are not happy with them does not make them bullshit. This argument is pointless - you are bent up on thinking that these contracts are invalid - i hope it bites you in the ass one day so you have learned your lesson.
While his ideas are cool - I think he needs to spend more time learning how to design a web page. His page has more broken links then a n0ubs geocities account.
I didn't say it was easy - and yes there is a way to "properly" admin a large network. If your companies IT group is incapable of doing it- they need to hire someone who can manage such a large task and increase the amount of people working. Out of curiousity - are you in this IT group? and which company?
Every large company I worked for had a realy easy time. They had different images for each department and the computers were ultra-restricted (no surfing the net unless you were in an authorized group, no installing 3rd party programs unless authorized, etc.) So in essence - the IT group knew exactly what was on your computer. When they wanted to do updates - they just sent out a mandate (which was SOP anyhow) to ensure that your computers stayed on at night. The IT group was small, and the company was international with about 15k people. The difference in managing 15k people and 30k people is just sheer numbers - you get to a point where the number of users changing does not make a difference. The IT team never saw things as ONE computer - they saw it as a group of computers. If you were in sales you had X programs, if you were in marketing you had Y programs, etc. When your computer needed to be reformatted they would look up your group number and push the image onto your computer. If you had your 3rd party software - well you didn't complain about it becuase you were not supposed to have it anyhow.
100 people in the company I work for. We have an image for each department. If we need to - we push. All the software they need is on there - anything else is their problem (and probably not installed since most machines don't have CD - ROMS).
Other then that, we upgraded all our systems to SP 2 and Office 2003 (we do HEAVY document writing) without any problems.
A properly admin'd company (small-medium-large) will not have many issues as spyware/virus' will be at a minimum.
You know - i swear the gov't has departments who try and think of acronyms that match the topic they are talking about in some fashion. Scary and waste of money.
There may not be a need as far as we see it - but apparantly the companies want to add EULA's for their own reason - maybe they feel the law is not enough. Does copyright laws prevent someone from hacking the software (not copying, just reverse engineering to hack it)...if it doesn't maybe thats why they have it. If the law in place is good enough - a company will let it be - if it is not good enough (this is a matter of opinion) people will modify it.
Now, it doesn't matter if you or I agree/disagree about the EULA ---we didn't create the software and as such we have ZERO say in how the company decides to implement it - other then we can choose to NOT pay for it.
If you happen to make any copyrigtable material one day it is your choice to make it open source or closed source. I presume from your stance that you will not include EULAs and trust that the laws will be sufficient to protect your work.
I would love to have our social problems fixed in a social manner (as opposed to being forced by some external source) - but the fact of it is - if people can get something for free at a relatively low chance of getting in trouble - they will take it. For example: I might be willing to d/l XYZ game from the Internet knowing that I will most likely not get caught. I am a WHOLE lot less likely to walk into a store and grab the box off the shelf. I am sure if a survay was done of people who used peer-peer software - most would say they have never shoplift because it is wrong and they were scared of getting caught. So is online theft anymore moral then physical theft? Have you ever d/l'd a pdf version of a brand new book? If so - why not just go to the store and take it off the shelf? At least then you will have a nicely bound book.
And as you said, if you don't like the terms of something - just don't buy it (or return it in the case were you don't see the terms until after the package is opened.)
Seventh, there's the trauma you will have with using cell phones (though this might not be bad as you will have one less expense each month). But man, seeing your kids use a cell phone might give you a heart attack:)
Pretty much any product you buy has some kind of danger associated with it, and a chance for mishap (i.e. papercuts). Some things are obviously more dangerous then others - but if the percentages are that low - it is insignificant. Given those low percentages - there is a reasonable assumption that the cell phone you use will be safe. It is unreasonable to change the entire system for a nil amount of cases. Now I am of the mindset that one life is worth more then any amount of money - but still - we do need to be reasonable. As long as the companies make honest restitutions to the folks who get hurt as well as try and fix the defect, then IMHO they are doing just fine.
Again, those percentages are so small I would say that the companies still have made the consumers more then reasonably confident in the safety of their material....whats the instances (per year) that regular phones hurt people? Or tv's? You are putting an electrical device about 3 inches from your brain - something COULD happen - apparantly its very small percentage but it is possible...it's also possible that an asteroid is goign to hit the planet.
Well maybe the one good thing that will come out of this is that the US will invade Canada:)
But don't worry, nothing much will happen. 2 mil should cover the Czar's salary.
EULA's are addendums. I have said it in many posts before - many laws can be modified by a contract as long as it is 1) not a dummy law 2) not a contract that causes criminal action. There are other exceptions I am sure (as there are many many laws out there) - but the company has the right to modify the pre-established law by presenting you with a contract - aka EULA.
1) You can return the product after reviewing the license. That is why it works. Show me where it says this can't be done. Remember the law does not need to tell you that you CAN do something, the law just needs to tell you that you CAN'T do something
2)Show me the law that says you MUST have a signed contract. Your full of shit (you get these insults as a direct reply to yours). Verbal agreements happen all the time...clicking YES or NO is just as valid. Again show me where it says that this is NOT valid. As for your minor situation - be thankful some prosecutor doesn't smack you around for coercing a minor to unknowingly engage in an illegal act (the illegal act is you trying to circumvent the license by having a minor click yes...your above example is as ridiculous as your thought process).
3) The terms are presented to you. However, since it is not feasible to have a lawyer present at every single store (unless you want to pay 300-500 bucks per game - plus it is not their responsibility to provide you with a lawyer) then you have the option to return the product. See this is how it works and why it is valid. YOu pay for the product, take it home, realize that you do not like the terms of the contract (click no). You return the product. Every buy a VCR with a warranty? Is the warranty terms on the outside of the box? No the terms are on the inside - so chances are you are not going to see the temrs until AFTER you get home because not many people open the box in the store.
Since copyright law is a law that can be waived (it protects the rights of the group that created the information, so they have the right to waive it or modify it) they have the option to change the rules. Again, you not owning the latest game is not going to prevent you from living a life of liberty, happiness and some such other crap.
The compelling legal argument is easy: "He can reproduce exact replicas of our software (with little effort) and distribute it. He cannot reproduce an exact replica of this book (w/p exhaustive effort).
Ah, you want the source code. Well the thing with the source code - some companies don't want you to have their code. Maybe they just came up with a new way to render 3D images that they want to keep as much of a secret as possible to gain a market edge.
It is not unreasonable to say that you want to mod the source code yourself - but I understand and firmly believe it to be reasonable for the code to remain closed source. And to be honest - the moment the source becomes open to customers - its open to the net....and people can then get around problems like license keys even easier.
The car analogy does not work. When I mod my car - it is my car; when I sell my car it becomes ONE other owners car (potentially more if you sell it to say a family)....however, when I receive the source for code - I can distribute it freely on the net (as is already done with programs today). It is much easier to copy digital media and distribute it (in its "original format") then it is for a tangeable object like a book, car, painting, etc.
Your desire to own the code, however, does not override the companies desire to license it to you. There is nothing wrong with their desires. It is their invention, their choice....if you do not like it - do not buy it.
Slashdot Mirror
Don't worry...you will be sued by...hmm who is there to sue you if the product has been abandaned? Well other then SCO that is...
BULL SHIT!!! You know you don't get sex even on her good days. ;)
How is it ripping off? They give credit to the originators. Firefox is open source (so its allowable). And they aren't the first to do this - --- google branded a firefox version. So how does that make these guys any different?
Were you in an indoor sauna? You had a buffer - the "gym" facility - possibly getting dressed? I believe these guys sit in an outside natural spring - get totally toasty - and then get up and run and jump in freezing cold water. 20 degrees could easily make a difference (are you talking 20 degrees centigrade or farenheit?).
I don't necessarily buy the deal that only those who put their lives in danger are heroes. A hero (imho) is anyone who exemplifies the best qualities that we are all capable of.
A person who traverses hardship and diversity - to do the right thing- at their own expense is a hero.
Examples of heroes:
Teachers - they give up much better paying careers to deal with us as little kids - and todays kids can be even worse
Parents - A good parent is a hero to many. Especially when we see that there are many parents who run away or who do a substandard job.
Mentor - someone giving of their own time to help someone else.
I like the broad term of hero as it rewards people who do things in their own way to make life better. This by no means should devalue the meaning of hero for people who risk their lives for other people --- in fact, it should increase its value by giving it an extra positive meaning.
000. Find out where the list is
:)
001. Go swimming in cold fricken waters (where sharks with laser beams don't even go)
002. Get yourself turned into a diamond.
SO back to item 000... Where is the list
There was a line at the restroom (for the guys this time) after the movie...I kept enjoying the more and more endings (though a lot of tear-jerking) but man, my bladder was crying...
then going from 200 degrees farenheit to -100 degrees will probably kill you.
Because lying would make me have to do some work by being creative and thinking up of the lie, it's scenarios, and counters to questions. Again - I have to create things that didn't happen and then remember them AND finally recite the lie. Since a lie is something that sprung up from my mind, it does not have the reality support (touch, taste, smell, sight, etc.)
Now, if I told the truth, I just had to recite something that I remembered. A few less steps that are supported by reality...
Just my non-scientific educated guess.
Not always true. Sometimes the media gets a hold of breaking news material and publishes it before it gets a chance to have peer-reviews. THis is good and bad. It is good because it helps get funding early - its bad because it is not peer reviewed and builds up more hope then may be deserved.
So its legal to rip but not to distribute? That is fine and I think that if ripping is the ONLY thing the end-users were doing that organizations like the MPAA and RIAA would have no problem with it. In all honesty, their problems stem from the millions of files that are traded *DAILY* without any money going to the companies that produced this material. It does not matter if we disagree with the price, their marketing, or if we should be able to share it or not....we did not create it and we do not hold any copyright's over it - they do.
So some of these rules they setup with their EULA's, laws, etc are valid because they are sueing people and winning.
You installed Kazaa on your computer? Even after deleting it, the hidden message still applies "Kazaa p0w3ns your computer"
1) Yes. I purchased Neverwinter nights. It didn't play right on my old computer. I went to a DIFFERENT store (same company, different location), without a receipt (credit card purchase) - and got a full refund. I spoke to a manager - took me all of 15 minutes. Whats your point.
2) Give a ridiculous scenario completely rigged so only your answer could apply and get a ridiculous answer. Verbal agreements are binding contracts - they can and do hold up in court. However, in this case - no verbal agreement is needed - you clicked YES so you could install the program.
3)It is very good...if you ask the salesperson for the specific terms and agreements of the warranty he will look at you like a deer in headlights. Do you think the sales person knows that in paragraph 3, line 4 it states XYZ terms? Hence, that is why the employee will not know warranty terms (the paper version of the EULA).
You are correct, some rights cannot be signed away (dummy laws). You do have the right to return the package (dummy law) - you do not have the right to hack and slash the software and think that you "own" it, because you don't.
I haven't bought into any bullshit, and I at least try not to spread more. I am consumer aware. THat is why I have ZERO problems when returning software to a store (or any other product). I also realize that once I click YES I agree to their terms and agreement...just because you are not happy with them does not make them bullshit. This argument is pointless - you are bent up on thinking that these contracts are invalid - i hope it bites you in the ass one day so you have learned your lesson.
While his ideas are cool - I think he needs to spend more time learning how to design a web page. His page has more broken links then a n0ubs geocities account.
I didn't say it was easy - and yes there is a way to "properly" admin a large network. If your companies IT group is incapable of doing it- they need to hire someone who can manage such a large task and increase the amount of people working. Out of curiousity - are you in this IT group? and which company?
Every large company I worked for had a realy easy time. They had different images for each department and the computers were ultra-restricted (no surfing the net unless you were in an authorized group, no installing 3rd party programs unless authorized, etc.) So in essence - the IT group knew exactly what was on your computer. When they wanted to do updates - they just sent out a mandate (which was SOP anyhow) to ensure that your computers stayed on at night. The IT group was small, and the company was international with about 15k people. The difference in managing 15k people and 30k people is just sheer numbers - you get to a point where the number of users changing does not make a difference. The IT team never saw things as ONE computer - they saw it as a group of computers. If you were in sales you had X programs, if you were in marketing you had Y programs, etc. When your computer needed to be reformatted they would look up your group number and push the image onto your computer. If you had your 3rd party software - well you didn't complain about it becuase you were not supposed to have it anyhow.
100 people in the company I work for. We have an image for each department. If we need to - we push. All the software they need is on there - anything else is their problem (and probably not installed since most machines don't have CD - ROMS).
Other then that, we upgraded all our systems to SP 2 and Office 2003 (we do HEAVY document writing) without any problems.
A properly admin'd company (small-medium-large) will not have many issues as spyware/virus' will be at a minimum.
You know - i swear the gov't has departments who try and think of acronyms that match the topic they are talking about in some fashion. Scary and waste of money.
There may not be a need as far as we see it - but apparantly the companies want to add EULA's for their own reason - maybe they feel the law is not enough. Does copyright laws prevent someone from hacking the software (not copying, just reverse engineering to hack it)...if it doesn't maybe thats why they have it. If the law in place is good enough - a company will let it be - if it is not good enough (this is a matter of opinion) people will modify it.
Now, it doesn't matter if you or I agree/disagree about the EULA ---we didn't create the software and as such we have ZERO say in how the company decides to implement it - other then we can choose to NOT pay for it.
If you happen to make any copyrigtable material one day it is your choice to make it open source or closed source. I presume from your stance that you will not include EULAs and trust that the laws will be sufficient to protect your work.
I would love to have our social problems fixed in a social manner (as opposed to being forced by some external source) - but the fact of it is - if people can get something for free at a relatively low chance of getting in trouble - they will take it. For example: I might be willing to d/l XYZ game from the Internet knowing that I will most likely not get caught. I am a WHOLE lot less likely to walk into a store and grab the box off the shelf. I am sure if a survay was done of people who used peer-peer software - most would say they have never shoplift because it is wrong and they were scared of getting caught. So is online theft anymore moral then physical theft? Have you ever d/l'd a pdf version of a brand new book? If so - why not just go to the store and take it off the shelf? At least then you will have a nicely bound book.
And as you said, if you don't like the terms of something - just don't buy it (or return it in the case were you don't see the terms until after the package is opened.)
Seventh, there's the trauma you will have with using cell phones (though this might not be bad as you will have one less expense each month). But man, seeing your kids use a cell phone might give you a heart attack :)
Pretty much any product you buy has some kind of danger associated with it, and a chance for mishap (i.e. papercuts). Some things are obviously more dangerous then others - but if the percentages are that low - it is insignificant. Given those low percentages - there is a reasonable assumption that the cell phone you use will be safe. It is unreasonable to change the entire system for a nil amount of cases. Now I am of the mindset that one life is worth more then any amount of money - but still - we do need to be reasonable. As long as the companies make honest restitutions to the folks who get hurt as well as try and fix the defect, then IMHO they are doing just fine.
Again, those percentages are so small I would say that the companies still have made the consumers more then reasonably confident in the safety of their material....whats the instances (per year) that regular phones hurt people? Or tv's? You are putting an electrical device about 3 inches from your brain - something COULD happen - apparantly its very small percentage but it is possible...it's also possible that an asteroid is goign to hit the planet.
Well maybe the one good thing that will come out of this is that the US will invade Canada :)
But don't worry, nothing much will happen. 2 mil should cover the Czar's salary.
EULA's are addendums. I have said it in many posts before - many laws can be modified by a contract as long as it is 1) not a dummy law 2) not a contract that causes criminal action. There are other exceptions I am sure (as there are many many laws out there) - but the company has the right to modify the pre-established law by presenting you with a contract - aka EULA.
1) You can return the product after reviewing the license. That is why it works. Show me where it says this can't be done. Remember the law does not need to tell you that you CAN do something, the law just needs to tell you that you CAN'T do something
2)Show me the law that says you MUST have a signed contract. Your full of shit (you get these insults as a direct reply to yours). Verbal agreements happen all the time...clicking YES or NO is just as valid. Again show me where it says that this is NOT valid. As for your minor situation - be thankful some prosecutor doesn't smack you around for coercing a minor to unknowingly engage in an illegal act (the illegal act is you trying to circumvent the license by having a minor click yes...your above example is as ridiculous as your thought process).
3) The terms are presented to you. However, since it is not feasible to have a lawyer present at every single store (unless you want to pay 300-500 bucks per game - plus it is not their responsibility to provide you with a lawyer) then you have the option to return the product. See this is how it works and why it is valid. YOu pay for the product, take it home, realize that you do not like the terms of the contract (click no). You return the product. Every buy a VCR with a warranty? Is the warranty terms on the outside of the box? No the terms are on the inside - so chances are you are not going to see the temrs until AFTER you get home because not many people open the box in the store.
Since copyright law is a law that can be waived (it protects the rights of the group that created the information, so they have the right to waive it or modify it) they have the option to change the rules. Again, you not owning the latest game is not going to prevent you from living a life of liberty, happiness and some such other crap.
The compelling legal argument is easy: "He can reproduce exact replicas of our software (with little effort) and distribute it. He cannot reproduce an exact replica of this book (w/p exhaustive effort).
Ah, you want the source code. Well the thing with the source code - some companies don't want you to have their code. Maybe they just came up with a new way to render 3D images that they want to keep as much of a secret as possible to gain a market edge.
It is not unreasonable to say that you want to mod the source code yourself - but I understand and firmly believe it to be reasonable for the code to remain closed source. And to be honest - the moment the source becomes open to customers - its open to the net....and people can then get around problems like license keys even easier.
The car analogy does not work. When I mod my car - it is my car; when I sell my car it becomes ONE other owners car (potentially more if you sell it to say a family)....however, when I receive the source for code - I can distribute it freely on the net (as is already done with programs today). It is much easier to copy digital media and distribute it (in its "original format") then it is for a tangeable object like a book, car, painting, etc.
Your desire to own the code, however, does not override the companies desire to license it to you. There is nothing wrong with their desires. It is their invention, their choice....if you do not like it - do not buy it.