While I haven't had the same experience as my mom's fiancee' with a two month waiting period. I do have a Citibank Visa (or mastercard, it changed and I never pay attention)....I purchased a gun with holster. The store refused to take the holser back. After I spoke to Citibank they took it back. I have had a number of situations in the past and each time they forced the company to take it back. Maybe different credit card companies offer different protection services - but at least I can vouch for Citibank, MBNA and AMEX - so I presume many other companies offer this (to stay competative).
There is no gaurentee of "until the end of time" but there is a reasonable amount of service to expect from the company. If Intuit goes out of business (and they do not get bought out or picked up by another company) then you are hosed for getting FUTURE updates. If your product is new enough - then stand in line and hope to get some cash. But they do gaurentee that their material is backward compatible. Generally, when a company thats bankrupt gets bought out - the buyers want the customers with the IP so they will honor the contracts (and many times they have no choice but to honor the contracts if they buy it).
I am pretty sure you can open up all quicken data files in notepad and you will see your data. Now if you have a lot of data this would be painstaking - but nothing a good excel sheet couldnt figure out? This you would have to verify but I do know you can import Quicken files into other financial products..
Until electronic IP laws improve companies are forced to use existing laws which may not be seamless. But why do you want to "own" the product? Other then just saying "i own this product" who cares? As long as you can use it - and chances are you can use it w/o any problems. I am just curious as to what the big deal is.
You can't just dictate whatever terms you want to people. They'd like ot pretend you have a contract with them. No, sorry, it's not. A contract requires an exchange of things (goods, money, whatever) and requires both parties to agree and sign. Saying "You agree by opening the box" isn't valid. Also contracts must be open to negoation. If you are leasing an apartment and disagree with a clause in the lease, you can strike it out, inital the change, and send it back to the management company. They are not required to accept these changes, but they have to negotiate it.
1) The exchange: Your money - their product which comes with a contract. You can get a refund.
2) Agreement: Clicking yes on the EULA is agreeing to the contract. At no point must you sign a piece of paper to agree to a contract.
3) Contracts do NOT have to be open to negotiation. Where did you ever get this idea? If you don't like the contract you can choose to not accept it
4) If you are leasing an apartment and you disagree with the clause - you can strike it out and send it back - and they can either accept the change or say no. You cannot change the clause w/o them consenting and just think its valid. Also, if you signed the lease prior to this, then you have zero say.
EULAs try and do many things that are just unenforaceble. Basically they want the best of both worlds. They want it to be a physical good when it suits them, but a licensed product when it suits them. Doesn't work that way. When you sell a product on the shelf, with no contract signing, you are selling a good. Things like the doctrine of first sale apply, even if you write an EULA that says they don't..
Actually EULAs are enforceable - if you think they aren't --- pirate some software and go to the company and tell them (showing them proof) that you pirated the software. Watch as your life gets thrown into litigation hell. Again, contracts don't have to be signed. There can be verbal agreement, or in EULA's a clicking of "I accept" is good enough
Valve's licensing termination is pretty reasonable. If you don't like it, don't buy it.
You are purchasing a good that comes with a service. However, you are applying a blanket statement to all goods - and things are different. By saying you "own" the software implies you can do as you will (legally); by licensing it - you do not "own" the software anymore so you are more restricted. It protects the company from people renaming the product and selling it as their own...or doing other stuff.
Either way - your entire argument is invalid to say the least.
That won't be a problem. Intuit is known for their backward compatability. In fact, the latest and greatest Intuit product (i.e. Quicken) will run the data files from the ORIGINAL version (in this case Quicken). I have had Quicken for many years (over a decade) and have gone through 4 upgrades - and each one was seamless (as far as getting my data over).
As for product "owning" and "licensing" - when was the last time a company actually gave "ownership" of a software product? I think by giving "ownership" they lose things like protection of IP -- meaning if you "own" the source code to Quicken - you can modify it, sell it, abuse it, rape it, etc...If you "license" it well then you can't w/o violating the license.
The only thing I am bitter about is I can't sell/give my old Half Life to someone. I had Diablo - when I was done with it I sold it. I had Diablo II - when I was done with it I sold it. Can't do it with half-life because it is integrated with my user account. As long as only one person is using it - then I can't see why Valve would care.
So on a marketing stand point what they did really helps their bottom line. On a security stand point what they did really helps their bottom line. But for the LEGITIMATE people who want to transfer their product to someone else...well I want a Murcealago, but it ain't happening...
And the state law backs this up? You guys got p0wn3d by the corps. Check up on that (if you haven't already) - but don't listen to a store salesman (obviously). Also, I suggest purchasing with a credit card. They don't give a rats ass about the law - they just tell the store to accept the return or never be able to use Visa, MasterCard, AMEX or whatever card you used... Very effective that pressure from the big guy.
Actually, most states have that law. Most people do not realize it. The laws are also "dummy" laws - which means they cannot be waived no matter what sign is posted, or document you sign. Stores just try and "freighten" you by acting like the store knows best. In all reality - just grow a back-bone, know your rights, and stand up for yourself....within minutes the manager will refund you fully. Another great thing to do is - buy with your credit card - you get plenty of protection. My mom's fiancee bought a laptop through Dell - didn't use it - but was able to return it two months later for a full refund due to his AMEX card... Just a side note, I live in PA
-A
Make no mistake, while a companies techies (and M$ is run by a geek) want to make cool stuff - a company is going to make cool stuff only (with rare exception which i will note later) for the purposes of making a profit. Mind you that profit does not have to be money - it could be also to increase its reputation, get product acceptance, etc.
Sometimes companies will make cool stuff that they know will not make them much money - but this is more on a charity level and it is rare. Also, companies do give back to the community via donations - but this is not in the scope (exactly) of what you were mentioning.
While we tout that Google and Apple are these great guys in white hats - we should also note that Apple was worse (imho still is...iTunes) with proprietary equipment and software. People here on/. rant and scream at M$ for its proprietariness - but lets face it - Apple is WAY more notorious for that then anyone else I can think of.
This is all part of their master plan. Seem like the good guys, and then BAM before ya know it we are all mindless zombies to Google like the masses are to M$;)
In all seriousness, these guys are no more saints then any other business. They want to turn a profit - since going public they now have to be responsible to those holding shares.
If *ALL* SW movies came on one disc I would buy that. Just too convenient....then again - I don't own any SW movies right now:D....it airs on Cable TV just way too often - and well I am just not THAT big of a fan (though I do see the movies when they hit theatres)...
Now put the LOTR trilogy on one Blue Ray and that will be slammin.
Anyone have the link to this? He's got a face only a mother could love (or someone who thinks they could get a slice of his money)... so between that and some of his more ridiculous statements (the one about the low cost computers) I love checking out dumb moves by him.
I would be more heartbroken except my brand spanking new Dell 9100 hard drive DIED last friday night while I was downloading Counterstrike which my friends bought for me for my birthday (Nov 10)... Still waiting for Dell to ship my new HD (they said it got lost in the mail...idiots).
Am I the only one here who believes Disney will probably do a decent job? Just because they relied on Pixar to make their movies for a while does not mean they cannot 1) hire some other company or 2) hire talent that is just as creative as the people in Pixar.... or do we believe that Pixar is the start and finish of animated movies?
Give them a chance to screw up before you rag on them - Disney didn't get to where it is today without being creative, entertaining and of high quality.
And remember, companies end relationships with each other all the time - this does not mean the relationship failed - it just means that the companies want to move on in different directions.
While I hate the little buggers as much as anyone else - shouldn't we be careful of technology designed to eliminate a creature...cockroaches do eat things and they are eaten by other things. If they die, it will have harmful effects like hurting the food chain. Then again, they are insects and it is really really hard to make an insect species go extinct...
I do like the fact this can be used to do things like teach chickens to exercise (I hate my KFC being fatty), and sheep to jump off cliffs (do they do this? Shouldn't we get them like psycho-therapy?)
skipping any commercials or promotional announcements would be prohibited
Haven't we always been able to do this with things like VCR's? Hell I do this every time I watch an episode of Smallville (saves me about 15-20 minutes).
What about channel surfing to skip commercials, will this be banned (hmmm well ok maybe this wouldn't be too bad, i hate channel surfing, I always miss the first couple seconds of my show when i get back to it)
I wonder, if I just hold my ears shut and do "lallalalalalala" will I go to jail? Will they quiz me about the commercials? I have a terrible memory...
Dear Avi Lazar,
Thank you for contacting me to express your opinions and concerns about legislative matters before the Congress. This is just a short note to let you know your message has been received by my office.
Due to the large volume of electronic correspondence that come in, my staff and I are unable to reply directly to your concerns. However, I appreciate your taking the time to write and convey your viewpoints. Your E-mail, along with the many others I receive from the people of Philadelphia and Cheltenham, will help me as I navigate through matters before the U.S. House of Representatives.
Thank you for writing to me and if you would like more information on Congress, please visit the U.S. House of Representatives' web site at http://www.house.gov/ or my web site at http://www.house.gov/fattah.
Now while I understand he must get thousands of e-mails, I would like to have seen, somewhere, it saying that someone will READ my statement and add it to the talley of people who wrote similar letters...what a load of crap. He did say it will help him navigate, but this non-pulsed e-mail sounds like it is auto-forwarded to the junk bin. And I did not vote for this guy - I am just stuck with him.
Hopefully this person listened to his/her teachers in school (HS or college) and is not only citing wikipedia.
I like this website and even have its random page set as my homepage - but when writing research papers I like to use various sources. I definitly try and include Wikipedia, but I also go to traditional sources (DVD encyclopedias, articles, old research papers, etc.)
Think of it this way - we always say that you should get your news from various sources so that way you are not listening to one groups opinions - well the same holds true for research.
Slashdot Mirror
While I haven't had the same experience as my mom's fiancee' with a two month waiting period. I do have a Citibank Visa (or mastercard, it changed and I never pay attention)....I purchased a gun with holster. The store refused to take the holser back. After I spoke to Citibank they took it back. I have had a number of situations in the past and each time they forced the company to take it back. Maybe different credit card companies offer different protection services - but at least I can vouch for Citibank, MBNA and AMEX - so I presume many other companies offer this (to stay competative).
There is no gaurentee of "until the end of time" but there is a reasonable amount of service to expect from the company. If Intuit goes out of business (and they do not get bought out or picked up by another company) then you are hosed for getting FUTURE updates. If your product is new enough - then stand in line and hope to get some cash. But they do gaurentee that their material is backward compatible. Generally, when a company thats bankrupt gets bought out - the buyers want the customers with the IP so they will honor the contracts (and many times they have no choice but to honor the contracts if they buy it).
I am pretty sure you can open up all quicken data files in notepad and you will see your data. Now if you have a lot of data this would be painstaking - but nothing a good excel sheet couldnt figure out? This you would have to verify but I do know you can import Quicken files into other financial products..
Until electronic IP laws improve companies are forced to use existing laws which may not be seamless. But why do you want to "own" the product? Other then just saying "i own this product" who cares? As long as you can use it - and chances are you can use it w/o any problems. I am just curious as to what the big deal is.
Lets start picking this apart
You can't just dictate whatever terms you want to people. They'd like ot pretend you have a contract with them. No, sorry, it's not. A contract requires an exchange of things (goods, money, whatever) and requires both parties to agree and sign. Saying "You agree by opening the box" isn't valid. Also contracts must be open to negoation. If you are leasing an apartment and disagree with a clause in the lease, you can strike it out, inital the change, and send it back to the management company. They are not required to accept these changes, but they have to negotiate it.
1) The exchange: Your money - their product which comes with a contract. You can get a refund.
2) Agreement: Clicking yes on the EULA is agreeing to the contract. At no point must you sign a piece of paper to agree to a contract.
3) Contracts do NOT have to be open to negotiation. Where did you ever get this idea? If you don't like the contract you can choose to not accept it
4) If you are leasing an apartment and you disagree with the clause - you can strike it out and send it back - and they can either accept the change or say no. You cannot change the clause w/o them consenting and just think its valid. Also, if you signed the lease prior to this, then you have zero say.
EULAs try and do many things that are just unenforaceble. Basically they want the best of both worlds. They want it to be a physical good when it suits them, but a licensed product when it suits them. Doesn't work that way. When you sell a product on the shelf, with no contract signing, you are selling a good. Things like the doctrine of first sale apply, even if you write an EULA that says they don't..
Actually EULAs are enforceable - if you think they aren't --- pirate some software and go to the company and tell them (showing them proof) that you pirated the software. Watch as your life gets thrown into litigation hell. Again, contracts don't have to be signed. There can be verbal agreement, or in EULA's a clicking of "I accept" is good enough
Valve's licensing termination is pretty reasonable. If you don't like it, don't buy it.
You are purchasing a good that comes with a service. However, you are applying a blanket statement to all goods - and things are different. By saying you "own" the software implies you can do as you will (legally); by licensing it - you do not "own" the software anymore so you are more restricted. It protects the company from people renaming the product and selling it as their own...or doing other stuff.
Either way - your entire argument is invalid to say the least.
That won't be a problem. Intuit is known for their backward compatability. In fact, the latest and greatest Intuit product (i.e. Quicken) will run the data files from the ORIGINAL version (in this case Quicken). I have had Quicken for many years (over a decade) and have gone through 4 upgrades - and each one was seamless (as far as getting my data over).
As for product "owning" and "licensing" - when was the last time a company actually gave "ownership" of a software product? I think by giving "ownership" they lose things like protection of IP -- meaning if you "own" the source code to Quicken - you can modify it, sell it, abuse it, rape it, etc...If you "license" it well then you can't w/o violating the license.
The only thing I am bitter about is I can't sell/give my old Half Life to someone. I had Diablo - when I was done with it I sold it. I had Diablo II - when I was done with it I sold it. Can't do it with half-life because it is integrated with my user account. As long as only one person is using it - then I can't see why Valve would care.
So on a marketing stand point what they did really helps their bottom line. On a security stand point what they did really helps their bottom line. But for the LEGITIMATE people who want to transfer their product to someone else...well I want a Murcealago, but it ain't happening...
They don't? I want my money back - I paid good money for the Sun, and I wasn't told anything about a license.
In fact, I blame valve for world hunger too.
And I blame all those people who write EULA's in plain - simple - English.
And the state law backs this up? You guys got p0wn3d by the corps. Check up on that (if you haven't already) - but don't listen to a store salesman (obviously). Also, I suggest purchasing with a credit card. They don't give a rats ass about the law - they just tell the store to accept the return or never be able to use Visa, MasterCard, AMEX or whatever card you used... Very effective that pressure from the big guy.
Actually, most states have that law. Most people do not realize it. The laws are also "dummy" laws - which means they cannot be waived no matter what sign is posted, or document you sign. Stores just try and "freighten" you by acting like the store knows best. In all reality - just grow a back-bone, know your rights, and stand up for yourself....within minutes the manager will refund you fully.
Another great thing to do is - buy with your credit card - you get plenty of protection. My mom's fiancee bought a laptop through Dell - didn't use it - but was able to return it two months later for a full refund due to his AMEX card...
Just a side note, I live in PA -A
Make no mistake, while a companies techies (and M$ is run by a geek) want to make cool stuff - a company is going to make cool stuff only (with rare exception which i will note later) for the purposes of making a profit. Mind you that profit does not have to be money - it could be also to increase its reputation, get product acceptance, etc.
/. rant and scream at M$ for its proprietariness - but lets face it - Apple is WAY more notorious for that then anyone else I can think of.
Sometimes companies will make cool stuff that they know will not make them much money - but this is more on a charity level and it is rare. Also, companies do give back to the community via donations - but this is not in the scope (exactly) of what you were mentioning.
While we tout that Google and Apple are these great guys in white hats - we should also note that Apple was worse (imho still is...iTunes) with proprietary equipment and software. People here on
This is all part of their master plan. Seem like the good guys, and then BAM before ya know it we are all mindless zombies to Google like the masses are to M$ ;)
In all seriousness, these guys are no more saints then any other business. They want to turn a profit - since going public they now have to be responsible to those holding shares.
You know the jerky that didn't put in a redundent sensor is probably still at the Siberian Front serving up Borcshe to the soldiers....
"We've been waiting for you."
"The few, the proud, the marines."
"Be, all that you can be." OR "An Army of One"
"Cross Into The Blue"
If *ALL* SW movies came on one disc I would buy that. Just too convenient....then again - I don't own any SW movies right now :D....it airs on Cable TV just way too often - and well I am just not THAT big of a fan (though I do see the movies when they hit theatres)...
Now put the LOTR trilogy on one Blue Ray and that will be slammin.
If you play them backwards will they give you the hidden satanic message: "Buy more, spend more, long live Microsoft" ??
...thanks to Verizon and the Republican party who they are paying off...I mean lobbying
Anyone have the link to this? He's got a face only a mother could love (or someone who thinks they could get a slice of his money) ... so between that and some of his more ridiculous statements (the one about the low cost computers) I love checking out dumb moves by him.
It seems that Steam has run out of steam...
I would be more heartbroken except my brand spanking new Dell 9100 hard drive DIED last friday night while I was downloading Counterstrike which my friends bought for me for my birthday (Nov 10)... Still waiting for Dell to ship my new HD (they said it got lost in the mail...idiots).
Am I the only one here who believes Disney will probably do a decent job? Just because they relied on Pixar to make their movies for a while does not mean they cannot 1) hire some other company or 2) hire talent that is just as creative as the people in Pixar.... or do we believe that Pixar is the start and finish of animated movies?
Give them a chance to screw up before you rag on them - Disney didn't get to where it is today without being creative, entertaining and of high quality.
And remember, companies end relationships with each other all the time - this does not mean the relationship failed - it just means that the companies want to move on in different directions.
Is that in every show? (give or take a couple of seconds)...And I learn something new everyday :D
She has a hot body, but maybe its the picture but her face looks a bit manly to me....anyone else think this?
Other then that - sex sells!!! I like it
While I hate the little buggers as much as anyone else - shouldn't we be careful of technology designed to eliminate a creature...cockroaches do eat things and they are eaten by other things. If they die, it will have harmful effects like hurting the food chain. Then again, they are insects and it is really really hard to make an insect species go extinct...
I do like the fact this can be used to do things like teach chickens to exercise (I hate my KFC being fatty), and sheep to jump off cliffs (do they do this? Shouldn't we get them like psycho-therapy?)
skipping any commercials or promotional announcements would be prohibited
Haven't we always been able to do this with things like VCR's? Hell I do this every time I watch an episode of Smallville (saves me about 15-20 minutes).
What about channel surfing to skip commercials, will this be banned (hmmm well ok maybe this wouldn't be too bad, i hate channel surfing, I always miss the first couple seconds of my show when i get back to it)
I wonder, if I just hold my ears shut and do "lallalalalalala" will I go to jail? Will they quiz me about the commercials? I have a terrible memory...
Dear Avi Lazar, Thank you for contacting me to express your opinions and concerns about legislative matters before the Congress. This is just a short note to let you know your message has been received by my office. Due to the large volume of electronic correspondence that come in, my staff and I are unable to reply directly to your concerns. However, I appreciate your taking the time to write and convey your viewpoints. Your E-mail, along with the many others I receive from the people of Philadelphia and Cheltenham, will help me as I navigate through matters before the U.S. House of Representatives. Thank you for writing to me and if you would like more information on Congress, please visit the U.S. House of Representatives' web site at http://www.house.gov/ or my web site at http://www.house.gov/fattah.
Now while I understand he must get thousands of e-mails, I would like to have seen, somewhere, it saying that someone will READ my statement and add it to the talley of people who wrote similar letters...what a load of crap. He did say it will help him navigate, but this non-pulsed e-mail sounds like it is auto-forwarded to the junk bin. And I did not vote for this guy - I am just stuck with him.
Label:
Surgeon General's Warning: Monitor Usage Is Dangerous to Health and May Cause Glaucoma from Masturbation and Interlaced Screens.
Hopefully this person listened to his/her teachers in school (HS or college) and is not only citing wikipedia.
I like this website and even have its random page set as my homepage - but when writing research papers I like to use various sources. I definitly try and include Wikipedia, but I also go to traditional sources (DVD encyclopedias, articles, old research papers, etc.)
Think of it this way - we always say that you should get your news from various sources so that way you are not listening to one groups opinions - well the same holds true for research.