the reason Windows server software is present at most companies is... because of Exchange
Someone already mentioned Samsung Contact, but there's also a recent announcementof an independent TCO study, comparing Contact/OpenMail with Exchange and Notes. The study includes a spreadsheet (Excel:-( ho hum) so you can tweak the model to match your own environment.
r.
Re:"a good email storage/access system such as ex.
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E-Mail Size Limits?
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Hang on. It's actually THREE times the price.
MS Small Business Server with the standard 5 CALs costs $1500 (or $1200 if you're nice to MS), with no rights to upgrades and only two support "incidents".
If I "punch in the numbers", Samsung Contact with 5 mailboxes costs $416.51, including one year's 24x7 support and upgrade rights ("maintenance"). (It's $520.64 if you also want to buy the optional Samsung Clients.)
r.
Re:"a good email storage/access system such as ex.
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E-Mail Size Limits?
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Bit of a mixup: HP discontinued development about 18 months ago. Samsung picked it up shortly after, and announced the new Contact project a few months later.
Not sure where you get $500 from. 5 users would be about HALF that price;-)
r.
"a good email storage/access system such as ex..."
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E-Mail Size Limits?
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They were running exchange though. Even being a linux advocate, until somebody writes a good email storage/access system such as exchange, ms will still have an edge in the market.
He let the engines spool down to idle and then was surprised when he didn't get instant power when he realised (far too late) that he was too low, relative to the approaching forest.
OK, I've been holding fire responding to this (er, those that know me may find this hard to believe), but I can hold fire no longer;^> Of course, I'm simply not at liberty to discuss any efforts that may or may not be ongoing to open-source OpenMail, or license it to others, so I'll restrict my thoughts to a personal note...
The last 13.5 years working on OpenMail (and its predecessor) has been great fun, and the OpenMail team has unquestionably been a FANTASTIC bunch to work with. But, remember, "it's only software!"
Oh, and glad you liked the T shirt, Blane. Sorry you didn't win the scooter!
richi.
The precending post is NOT a statement from the Hewlett-Packard Company.
The Lotus Notes/Domino key weakness wasn't "secret". In many ways, they touted it as a "benefit", so that multi-national companies needn't install two different versions any more.
I don't think this is packet switching -- this is circuit switching.
Example: incoming fiber #5 has many channels multiplexed onto it. The circuit on channels #4567 needs to go out on fiber #2, but on a different channel, say #1234. This allows the switching to happen without converting the signal to electrons!
...because I was on-call with a cellphone by my side for 24hrs a day over the four day new year period, and I am again right now, all fscking week. Interesting to see that somebody's having some *real* problems.
richi. -- Richi Jennings - richi@hp.com - https://ecardfile.com/id/richij Team OpenMail - http://www.hp.com/go/openmail Hewlett-Packard Company i n v e n t OpenMail: Business messaging/collaboration for the next E. E-Services.
> all I hear is Exchange this and Exchange that. I'd like to exchange Exchange with something that runs on a fairly stable OS
If you need something closer to Exchange than Domino, look at OpenMail.
richi. -- Richi Jennings OpenMail Technical Product Manager - http://www.hp.com/go/openmail Hewlett-Packard Company "Practice random acts of kindness and senseless beauty"
Unfortunately, nobody seems to have answered the original question: "Domino or HP's OpenMail?", so how about I give it a stab...
Firstly: a Truth In Advertising reality-check (see my sig).
Right. If you like the sort of functionality you get from Exchange, need it reliable and scalable, get OpenMail.
Our OpenMail server has been up 242 days (and I think that last reboot was because of a two day site power outage). We've tested a single-CPU Linux box at 2000-2500 real users.
Real Exchange implementations seem to average 300-500 users. Don't get me started about reliability.
Real Domino implementations tend to be less scalable than Exchange (therefore much less scalable than OpenMail).
Having said all of that, Domino does have some interesting application development features. OpenMail concentrates on being a really good messaging/e-mail server, plus some other twiddles (like all the cool Outlook support).
richi. -- Richi Jennings OpenMail Technical Product Manager - http://www.hp.com/go/openmail Hewlett-Packard Company "Practice random acts of kindness and senseless beauty"
Doesn't PGPfone do this?/richi. -- Richi Jennings OpenMail Technical Product Manager http://www.hp.com/go/openmail Hewlett-Packard Company "Practice random acts of kindness and senseless beauty"
Ahh, lad; you should have been around in the days of his predecessor, the seminal Prof. Fellgate.
Now *that* was a nutter. For deity's sake your never, ever told him that the reason you missed a lecture was because you had the 'flu. Big mistake. Oh, and always make sure you remember that the word "data" is plural.
1. This is Microsoft's solution to the "cryto with a hole" problem. 2. It's no secret that Microsoft put this into CryptoAPI, I've heard MS people talk about this in public seminars 12 months ago, at least.
The "hole" problem is that it's illegal in many countries to export a system that would allow pluggable crypto modules to be added. Hard to define exactly what such a system is (and isn't) to my mind, but there you are. Probably sufficient legal test that the "intention" was there, but I'm not aware that this has been tested in court.
CryptoAPI is a classic c-with-a-h setup -- you can install "service providers" that implement alternate crypto schemes (rather like we install an OpenMail service provider into MAPI to make Outlook work with OpenMail).
The deal they struck with the feds was that the SPs wouldn't work unless they were signed by MS *or* the NSA.
As I said, the *existence* of this system is not a secret, but the location of the code was (at least de fecto).
I'd bet that few people at MS actually figured out that they had to prevent a binary patch, let alone decided to strip the symbols to prevent it!
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the reason Windows server software is present at most companies is ... because of Exchange
:-( ho hum) so you can tweak the model to match your own environment.
Someone already mentioned Samsung Contact, but there's also a recent announcementof an independent TCO study, comparing Contact/OpenMail with Exchange and Notes. The study includes a spreadsheet (Excel
r.
Hang on. It's actually THREE times the price.
MS Small Business Server with the standard 5 CALs costs $1500 (or $1200 if you're nice to MS), with no rights to upgrades and only two support "incidents".
If I "punch in the numbers", Samsung Contact with 5 mailboxes costs $416.51, including one year's 24x7 support and upgrade rights ("maintenance"). (It's $520.64 if you also want to buy the optional Samsung Clients.)
r.
Bit of a mixup: HP discontinued development about 18 months ago. Samsung picked it up shortly after, and announced the new Contact project a few months later.
;-)
Not sure where you get $500 from. 5 users would be about HALF that price
r.
Samsung Contact (was HP OpenMail), anyone?
r.
Pilot was blamed because it was his fault!
He let the engines spool down to idle and then was surprised when he didn't get instant power when he realised (far too late) that he was too low, relative to the approaching forest.
r.
--
OK, I've been holding fire responding to this (er, those that know me may find this hard to believe), but I can hold fire no longer ;^> Of course, I'm simply not at liberty to discuss any efforts that may or may not be ongoing to open-source OpenMail, or license it to others, so I'll restrict my thoughts to a personal note...
The last 13.5 years working on OpenMail (and its predecessor) has been great fun, and the OpenMail team has unquestionably been a FANTASTIC bunch to work with. But, remember, "it's only software!"
Oh, and glad you liked the T shirt, Blane. Sorry you didn't win the scooter!
richi.
The precending post is NOT a statement from the Hewlett-Packard Company.
The Lotus Notes/Domino key weakness wasn't "secret". In many ways, they touted it as a "benefit", so that multi-national companies needn't install two different versions any more.
richi.
richi.
I don't think this is packet switching -- this is circuit switching.
Example: incoming fiber #5 has many channels multiplexed onto it. The circuit on channels #4567 needs to go out on fiber #2, but on a different channel, say #1234. This allows the switching to happen without converting the signal to electrons!
richi.
richi.
...because I was on-call with a cellphone by my side for 24hrs a day over the four day new year period, and I am again right now, all fscking week. Interesting to see that somebody's having some *real* problems.
richi.
--
Richi Jennings - richi@hp.com - https://ecardfile.com/id/richij
Team OpenMail - http://www.hp.com/go/openmail
Hewlett-Packard Company
i n v e n t
OpenMail: Business messaging/collaboration for the next E. E-Services.
Try OpenMail.
Ahem. Use our product free, or use it in its commercial product incarnation. Linux, HP-UX, Solaris, AIX (yes, really).
richi.
--
Richi Jennings
http://www.hp.com/go/openmail
Hewlett-Packard Company
"Practice random acts of kindness and senseless beauty"
We've always made freely-available all our OpenMail manuals and the majority of our 200- and 300-level course notes.
richi.
--
Richi Jennings
W/w OpenMail Marcom, PR/ICR Manager - http://www.hp.com/go/openmail
Hewlett-Packard Company
"Practice random acts of kindness and senseless beauty"
> all I hear is Exchange this and Exchange that. I'd like to exchange Exchange with something that runs on a fairly stable OS
If you need something closer to Exchange than Domino, look at OpenMail.
richi.
--
Richi Jennings
OpenMail Technical Product Manager - http://www.hp.com/go/openmail
Hewlett-Packard Company
"Practice random acts of kindness and senseless beauty"
Unfortunately, nobody seems to have answered the original question: "Domino or HP's OpenMail?", so how about I give it a stab...
Firstly: a Truth In Advertising reality-check (see my sig).
Right. If you like the sort of functionality you get from Exchange, need it reliable and scalable, get OpenMail.
Our OpenMail server has been up 242 days (and I think that last reboot was because of a two day site power outage). We've tested a single-CPU Linux box at 2000-2500 real users.
Real Exchange implementations seem to average 300-500 users. Don't get me started about reliability.
Real Domino implementations tend to be less scalable than Exchange (therefore much less scalable than OpenMail).
Having said all of that, Domino does have some interesting application development features. OpenMail concentrates on being a really good messaging/e-mail server, plus some other twiddles (like all the cool Outlook support).
richi.
--
Richi Jennings
OpenMail Technical Product Manager - http://www.hp.com/go/openmail
Hewlett-Packard Company
"Practice random acts of kindness and senseless beauty"
Doesn't PGPfone do this? /richi.
--
Richi Jennings
OpenMail Technical Product Manager http://www.hp.com/go/openmail
Hewlett-Packard Company
"Practice random acts of kindness and senseless beauty"
Ahh, lad; you should have been around in the days of his predecessor, the seminal Prof. Fellgate.
Now *that* was a nutter. For deity's sake your never, ever told him that the reason you missed a lecture was because you had the 'flu. Big mistake. Oh, and always make sure you remember that the word "data" is plural.
richi.
What about supersonic flight?
No, the Bell X-1 doesn't count -- it didn't take off under its own power (and the rocket engine was a bit of a cheat).
richi.
Yep, and we invented public key cryptography. Not Diffie or Hellman. That was an "official secret," too.
richi.
A bit like HP. We do make things other than printers, you know...
richi.
--
Richi Jennings tel:+44-1344-365870 (T316-5870)
OpenMail Technical Product Manager http://www.hp.com/go/openmail
Hewlett-Packard Company Pager: richi-beep@pwd.hp.com
aolim:richij
"Practice random acts of kindness and senseless beauty"
1. This is Microsoft's solution to the "cryto with a hole" problem.
2. It's no secret that Microsoft put this into CryptoAPI, I've heard MS people talk about this in public seminars 12 months ago, at least.
The "hole" problem is that it's illegal in many countries to export a system that would allow pluggable crypto modules to be added. Hard to define exactly what such a system is (and isn't) to my mind, but there you are. Probably sufficient legal test that the "intention" was there, but I'm not aware that this has been tested in court.
CryptoAPI is a classic c-with-a-h setup -- you can install "service providers" that implement alternate crypto schemes (rather like we install an OpenMail service provider into MAPI to make Outlook work with OpenMail).
The deal they struck with the feds was that the SPs wouldn't work unless they were signed by MS *or* the NSA.
As I said, the *existence* of this system is not a secret, but the location of the code was (at least de fecto).
I'd bet that few people at MS actually figured out that they had to prevent a binary patch, let alone decided to strip the symbols to prevent it!
;-)
The location is room A4. See you there...