...is that this guy is reasonably famous and this sort of stuff happens to other people who can not simple write on their blog with a few thousand readers.
If the same thing happenend to you, it would be a lot worse.
The consequence? Do not enter countries in which no reasonable protection of your basic human rights exists. You know, like Birma, North Korea and the USA.
Our GPU are becoming more and more multi-purpose every day.
But that is not the real threat... Suppose I install my crap in your network interface's firmware and just drop packages I don't want you to see (think "rocket incoming" or "stock falling"). Yes, those are high-level examples and yes, this approach is more or less 'outside' the system.
But if I just feed crap into your system, are you _sure_ every device driver is hardened? And what context do device drivers run in? Kernel context? Oups...
Disclaimer: We will probably end up agreeing to disagree. Or I will do it one-sidedly.
Are you a non-native English speaker by chance?
Yes, I am. Not sure how that is relevant, except inasmuch that non-native speakers who speak the foreign language on a high level tend to use, and read, it a lot more deliberatly.
It's a simple fact that I stated no opinion, while you did, in the same breadth as saying my "arguments" "[miss] the point". You can backpedal as much as you please. I'm not trying to stick you with anything.
So... Someone says "X is the most important". Someone else replies "No, it is not the most important even though Y". Then, you jump in to say, and I quote "OpenSSH is just a small part of why OpenBSD is so important." and then go on to list reasons why it's so important. You are free to think that and as I said you are even right with lots of what you said.
But to say that, given the context of where you said what, you did not argue either way; simply listing a few barely related facts? Sounds fishy to me;)
Circumstantial evidence may not be water-tight in a court of law, but... come on...
That might be valuable to debate, but so far, you haven't provided any reasoning for that assertion, except to say that, statistically, since only one can be the "most", it's unlikely than any given on, in fact, is.
Which is true, isn't it?:)
Once again, you're talking completely off the subject. I was pointing out the difficulty in comparing different OSS project, and you somehow turn that into me claiming that OpenBSD is the largest...
I will say that, OpenBSD's scope is certainly larger than Linux or all of GNU... Linux just being a kernel (OpenBSD has a kernel, which supports the overwhelming majority of the same things) and GNU being userland and more (which OpenBSD also has).
So the only one which I listed of which you do _not_ think it is smaller is FreeBSD? Seems my guess was not _that_ bad.
We might argue that even a single application like the GIMP makes up a lot in size. God (i.e. you) forbids I would pull Debian out of my hat.
You're completely and totally wrong in your notion of absolutely everything I have said in this discussion.
Same to you:)
You certainly have no idea of my opinion, and I doubt anyone could hope to judge anything about it from the little I have revealed here.
Not beyond any doubt, agreed. But beyond any reasonable doubt. At least in my opinion. Which you don't share. Which is fine.
You've repeatedly stated your conclusion, so, apparently, you DO in fact, believe you know how to make such a judgment.
Erm, yes. That's some fine logic there. Let's suppose you look at a group of a few dozen trees. One of the trees is definitely smaller than several others. Someone approaches you and tells you "this is the largest one." Are you able to able to say with confidence that it's not the largest, even though you are not sure if you are talking about heigth, volume, span, or pretty much anything else other than root length?
In any case, I hope I could clear up some points. If not, that is fine, too. We would be wasting each other's time if we carried on;)
From my pov, it went from "did not know it existed" to "why is everyone so excited" pretty much over night. I don't get it and would appreciate it if anyone told me why this particular bit of hardware hit home so hardly.
False logic. Listening to an argument (or even offering some evidence supporting one) does not presuppose a decision, one way or the other (though one MIGHT infer some bias from it). Dismissing arguments, with no attempt to judge their veracity, immediately indicates prejudice (by definition).
So, basically, you get to pull the "I did not say that card" while I am stuck with being the evil, headless guy who did not even try to value your arguments? Cool. Just for the record, I read, understood and even made part of the points you made in another subthread. Still, my basic point remains: OpenBSD is, in my opinion, not the single most important FLOSS project. And that's even when you throw in their admirable stance on closed-source firmware.
Yes, you have a statistically better chance of betting against someone, but this is not a bet. We are not operating in lieu of evidence, which substantially improves those odds.
Only if you assume that the initial statement is true. Feel free to do so, but give others the chance to disagree.
Yes, in the very least, it's heavily biased if you include any project which happens to be much larger than others, and/or encompasses many smaller, only partially-related projects...
Larger than GNU, Linux and FreeBSD, for example? Even Darwin is "larger" and arguably open source. OpenBSD may encompass a lot of stuff and feed patches upstream, but so do others.
The funny thing is that you are trying to convince me that your choice (and let's not play games, you _do_ agree with what OP said) is the only right one while all I am saying is "I am not even sure how to judge which the best one is". It's OK for you to think this, really it is. But when you try to "prove" it without even setting up some basic rules for judgement, I am not sure how seriously I can take you.
It doesn't miss the point at all, it's merely more facts to support the claim. Certainly far from undeniable proof, but the fact that you don't care about the relevant facts just indicates you believe the answer to be a foregone conclusion.
Which, in turn, means you think the answer is a foregone conclusion, as well. Debating the point is moot, but if we assume that we both could err, the statistical chance of "out of n samples, x is the most y" is a lot less than of "out of n samples, x is not the most y". If we assume you can not err, you must be God or an OpenBSD person;)
Jokes aside, I am not sure which the most important single piece of FLOSS is or even what scope is the right one and how to weigth the various facts. If someone claims they do, they are free to do so, but I just might pull their leg instead of agreeing.
...for example, I go over mechanical stuff very thouroughly to know how it works.
But even then, I don't know _exactly_ why steel is more durable than iron. As in on the molecular, atomar and sub-atomar levels. You have to draw the line _somewhere_.
And if I have to choose between a C64 I can understand completely (for some value of) and the Thinkpad 201s I have been drooling over recently... Well...
Everyone who has ever tried both the E75 and the N900 knows that the N900 beats the E75 hands down. I don't know how they could not include that in the test. Pity, really.
Guilty until proven innocent and all that so let's hear their names right now!
It's funny how people are quick to abolish basic rights for other people when those people might have done something they don't like. Or is it quaint, rather than funny?
After drinking and before going to bed take a _hot_ shower, drink as much water as you possibly can and toss an aspirin or two. Repeat right after waking up again.
No need to thank me, but if I could sell that procedure in bottles, I would. Bottled water would be a neat product, come to think of it.
Maybe I can interest you in my newest USB gadget. I decided to go with the mnemonic CrotchBrick (tm). And yes, you can trigger it remotely and repeatedly.
I have a X31 (see http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:X31 ) and I am thinking about upgrading to a X100e, X200, X201/X210 -- but I am not sure how my trusty X31 compares to current low-end hardware.
Hard requirements:
* At _least_ 3-4 hours of run time with normal workload (KDE4, konsole, half a dozen ssh sessions, no flash) * TrackPoint - I hate touchpads * sturdy - those things are there to be used, not pampered. I don't abuse them needlessly, but I will not go out of my way to make sure the purty purty thing does not get a scratch, either.
Slashdot Mirror
...is that this guy is reasonably famous and this sort of stuff happens to other people who can not simple write on their blog with a few thousand readers.
If the same thing happenend to you, it would be a lot worse.
The consequence? Do not enter countries in which no reasonable protection of your basic human rights exists. You know, like Birma, North Korea and the USA.
Wouldn't game design students be kind of self-selecting to be open to such an idea?
Not saying it's bad, but it's not exactly a surprise, either.
Either they start litigating or they do not. No court of law gives a damn about a random blog post unless they actually, like _go_ to a court.
Press releases don't really hurt in that regard (they can create fear though. Congratulations on falling for that)
I am not sure how the CRS-3 will improve my 1386 kbit/s downstream at home.
If given the choice, I would gladly take an _ancient_ 7206VXR with gigabit at home, but no one will connect me at that speed.
It's not about the backbone, it's about the curb.
Our GPU are becoming more and more multi-purpose every day.
But that is not the real threat... Suppose I install my crap in your network interface's firmware and just drop packages I don't want you to see (think "rocket incoming" or "stock falling"). Yes, those are high-level examples and yes, this approach is more or less 'outside' the system.
But if I just feed crap into your system, are you _sure_ every device driver is hardened? And what context do device drivers run in? Kernel context? Oups...
So my malware runs as a script in your email reader. How will his system find it?
Ah OK, I thought as much...
The obvious question is if we will imprison everyone to end the discrimination against people who were found guilty in a court of law.
And what about people who we discriminate against breaking bones by making them wear a cast?
They have been researching this for _years_. The grant may be news, granted. But the technique itself?
Disclaimer: We will probably end up agreeing to disagree. Or I will do it one-sidedly.
Are you a non-native English speaker by chance?
Yes, I am. Not sure how that is relevant, except inasmuch that non-native speakers who speak the foreign language on a high level tend to use, and read, it a lot more deliberatly.
It's a simple fact that I stated no opinion, while you did, in the same breadth as saying my "arguments" "[miss] the point". You can backpedal as much as you please. I'm not trying to stick you with anything.
So... Someone says "X is the most important". Someone else replies "No, it is not the most important even though Y". Then, you jump in to say, and I quote "OpenSSH is just a small part of why OpenBSD is so important." and then go on to list reasons why it's so important.
You are free to think that and as I said you are even right with lots of what you said.
But to say that, given the context of where you said what, you did not argue either way; simply listing a few barely related facts? Sounds fishy to me ;)
Circumstantial evidence may not be water-tight in a court of law, but... come on...
That might be valuable to debate, but so far, you haven't provided any reasoning for that assertion, except to say that, statistically, since only one can be the "most", it's unlikely than any given on, in fact, is.
Which is true, isn't it? :)
Once again, you're talking completely off the subject. I was pointing out the difficulty in comparing different OSS project, and you somehow turn that into me claiming that OpenBSD is the largest...
I will say that, OpenBSD's scope is certainly larger than Linux or all of GNU... Linux just being a kernel (OpenBSD has a kernel, which supports the overwhelming majority of the same things) and GNU being userland and more (which OpenBSD also has).
So the only one which I listed of which you do _not_ think it is smaller is FreeBSD? Seems my guess was not _that_ bad.
We might argue that even a single application like the GIMP makes up a lot in size. God (i.e. you) forbids I would pull Debian out of my hat.
You're completely and totally wrong in your notion of absolutely everything I have said in this discussion.
Same to you :)
You certainly have no idea of my opinion, and I doubt anyone could hope to judge anything about it from the little I have revealed here.
Not beyond any doubt, agreed. But beyond any reasonable doubt. At least in my opinion. Which you don't share. Which is fine.
You've repeatedly stated your conclusion, so, apparently, you DO in fact, believe you know how to make such a judgment.
Erm, yes. That's some fine logic there.
Let's suppose you look at a group of a few dozen trees. One of the trees is definitely smaller than several others. Someone approaches you and tells you "this is the largest one." Are you able to able to say with confidence that it's not the largest, even though you are not sure if you are talking about heigth, volume, span, or pretty much anything else other than root length?
In any case, I hope I could clear up some points. If not, that is fine, too. We would be wasting each other's time if we carried on ;)
From my pov, it went from "did not know it existed" to "why is everyone so excited" pretty much over night. I don't get it and would appreciate it if anyone told me why this particular bit of hardware hit home so hardly.
False logic. Listening to an argument (or even offering some evidence supporting one) does not presuppose a decision, one way or the other (though one MIGHT infer some bias from it). Dismissing arguments, with no attempt to judge their veracity, immediately indicates prejudice (by definition).
So, basically, you get to pull the "I did not say that card" while I am stuck with being the evil, headless guy who did not even try to value your arguments? Cool.
Just for the record, I read, understood and even made part of the points you made in another subthread. Still, my basic point remains: OpenBSD is, in my opinion, not the single most important FLOSS project. And that's even when you throw in their admirable stance on closed-source firmware.
Yes, you have a statistically better chance of betting against someone, but this is not a bet. We are not operating in lieu of evidence, which substantially improves those odds.
Only if you assume that the initial statement is true. Feel free to do so, but give others the chance to disagree.
Yes, in the very least, it's heavily biased if you include any project which happens to be much larger than others, and/or encompasses many smaller, only partially-related projects...
Larger than GNU, Linux and FreeBSD, for example? Even Darwin is "larger" and arguably open source. OpenBSD may encompass a lot of stuff and feed patches upstream, but so do others.
The funny thing is that you are trying to convince me that your choice (and let's not play games, you _do_ agree with what OP said) is the only right one while all I am saying is "I am not even sure how to judge which the best one is".
It's OK for you to think this, really it is. But when you try to "prove" it without even setting up some basic rules for judgement, I am not sure how seriously I can take you.
It doesn't miss the point at all, it's merely more facts to support the claim. Certainly far from undeniable proof, but the fact that you don't care about the relevant facts just indicates you believe the answer to be a foregone conclusion.
Which, in turn, means you think the answer is a foregone conclusion, as well. ;)
Debating the point is moot, but if we assume that we both could err, the statistical chance of "out of n samples, x is the most y" is a lot less than of "out of n samples, x is not the most y".
If we assume you can not err, you must be God or an OpenBSD person
Jokes aside, I am not sure which the most important single piece of FLOSS is or even what scope is the right one and how to weigth the various facts. If someone claims they do, they are free to do so, but I just might pull their leg instead of agreeing.
...for example, I go over mechanical stuff very thouroughly to know how it works.
But even then, I don't know _exactly_ why steel is more durable than iron. As in on the molecular, atomar and sub-atomar levels. You have to draw the line _somewhere_.
And if I have to choose between a C64 I can understand completely (for some value of) and the Thinkpad 201s I have been drooling over recently... Well...
While true, this argument misses the point that they are not "the most important free software project on the planet".
You are basically arguing about a different thing than the rest of us.
You could write an alternative to OpenSSH faster than you could write an alternative to the Linux kernel.
Of course, I gloss over pretty much every detail, but so do you.
True, and I applaud them for their efforts, some of which make it back to Linux, etc.
But are they, and I quote, "the most important free software project on the planet"? No.
You are right in what you were saying, but you missed the point of what was being discussed.
Everyone who has ever tried both the E75 and the N900 knows that the N900 beats the E75 hands down. I don't know how they could not include that in the test. Pity, really.
It forced me to write "properly" by making a lot of things i had grown accustomed to impossible.
Guilty until proven innocent and all that so let's hear their names right now!
It's funny how people are quick to abolish basic rights for other people when those people might have done something they don't like. Or is it quaint, rather than funny?
After drinking and before going to bed take a _hot_ shower, drink as much water as you possibly can and toss an aspirin or two. Repeat right after waking up again.
No need to thank me, but if I could sell that procedure in bottles, I would. Bottled water would be a neat product, come to think of it.
Maybe I can interest you in my newest USB gadget. I decided to go with the mnemonic CrotchBrick (tm). And yes, you can trigger it remotely and repeatedly.
It does because mediawiki supports namespaces which, you guessed it, use a slash.
Definitely!
What OS do you run?
If Linux, what WM/DM do you use?
If KDE 4, which is faster?
When compiling stuff, which of them is faster?
What is your overall feeling about their relative responsiveness?
Anything else I missed and you deem important :)
I have a X31 (see http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:X31 ) and I am thinking about upgrading to a X100e, X200, X201/X210 -- but I am not sure how my trusty X31 compares to current low-end hardware.
Hard requirements:
* At _least_ 3-4 hours of run time with normal workload (KDE4, konsole, half a dozen ssh sessions, no flash)
* TrackPoint - I hate touchpads
* sturdy - those things are there to be used, not pampered. I don't abuse them needlessly, but I will not go out of my way to make sure the purty purty thing does not get a scratch, either.
As long as they deploy them via intercontinental trebutchets, you are right.