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How Do You Get Users To Read Error Messages?

A BOFH writes "The longer I do desktop support, the more it becomes obvious that my users don't read anything that appears on their screen. Instead, they memorize a series of buttons to press to get whatever result they want and if anything unexpected happens, they're completely lost. Error logs help a lot, but they have their limits. I've been toying with a few ideas, but I don't know if any of them will work and I was hoping my fellow Slashdotters could point me in the right direction. For example, I was thinking about creating icons or logos to identify specific errors. They might not remember that an error is about 'uninitialized data' but they might be more able to remember that they got the 'puppy error' if I showed a puppy picture next to the error message. Or for times when finding images is too time consuming, you could create simple logos from letters, numbers, symbols, colors, or shapes, so you could have the 'red 5' error or 'blue square' error (or any combination of those elements). I've even wondered if it would be possible to expand that to cover the other senses, for example, playing a unique sound with the error. Unfortunately, haptic and olfactory feedback aren't readily available. I like to think that my users would remember the error that caused them to get a swift kick in the balls. And if they forgot it anyhow, I could always help them reproduce it. Does anyone else have experience with ideas like these? Did it work?"

951 comments

  1. Electric Shock by bytethese · · Score: 4, Funny

    Using Bluetooth to activate a transmitter in the seats of our users, we've had a 671% increase in efficiency when helping our users due to increased "awareness" of error messages.

    1. Re:Electric Shock by zach_the_lizard · · Score: 5, Funny

      We attempted that in our own organization, but the fact that no one read any error messages didn't change. All that did change was that we now had a large mass of grown adults who wet themselves. What we did find effective was sending the individuals to a kindergarten, where they would be taught how to read. Electroshock treatment continued, however, as a means to address the stress of the help desk personnel.

      --
      SSC
    2. Re:Electric Shock by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Activate webcam. Take picture of user. Set as dialog icon. They WILL pay attention.

    3. Re:Electric Shock by HungryHobo · · Score: 5, Funny

      Boring story:

      The most memorable example for me was when I was working part time as a tote at a race track during college.
      There was some significant "technical problem" which was delaying the races.
      I was up in the cash room and the manger was on the phone to the control room asking what was wrong.

      She asked me to carry down a TV so I grab one of the dusty old little ones and carry it down thinking one of the displays must have burned out or something.
      I got down to the room and the woman who was in the control room was on the phone to some tech support drone wherever the company outsourced these things to.
      Turned out she'd told my manager there was something wrong with the "monitor" which had somehow translated to "TV".

      I look at the screen and bouncing slowly around over everything there's a big grey box.
      It covers half the screen and the only way it could make more of a point that it's there is if it was flashing in many colours.
      "Current monitor resolution not supported 1200*1600"

      At first I assumed she'd read this to the tech on the other end and there's something deeper wrong so I don't do anything I just hang around and listen for a few moments and it becomes very clear that she has not read this error to the tech, it's as if she has a massive blind spot where the error is.

      This isn't a little error like you get in windows whenever it wants to tell you about something and which users get used to clicking right through... no this is a fairly unusual big grey box being generated by the monitor itself.

      I can hear the tech asking if she can see any errors or messeges, and she says "no" ....(WHAT THE FUCK?)

      All the while the clock is ticking and costing the track quite a lot of money per minute.

      I tactfully hint that perhaps I being a computer nerd and a third year comp sci student who's worked tech support in the past might be able to help but she's one of those territorial types and won't allow me to talk to the tech so that I can at least read the error to him.
      (You know all know someone like her:she may not have a clue how to do her job, she may not have any idea at all what she's doing but it's within HER domain)

      So while she's being talked through how to let him remote in(useless in that situation I know) I lean in, change the resolution to 800*640 .
      The monitor goes blank for a moment and she assumes I've broken everything.
      Then it blinks back and is working again (now though some of her icons are off the edge of the screen and she starts panicing again until I arrange the icons so they're all on the screen.
      Now whenever I'm at an event and hear an announcement about "technical problems" I assume that it's really some trivial crap like that.

      And if I ever work phone support again I will assume everything, absolutely everything the person on the other end tells me is a blatant lie.

      Is it plugged in? yes? LIER!
      It it turned on? yes? LIER!
      Can you see any messeges on the screen? no? LIER!

      Why do they lie!??!?

    4. Re:Electric Shock by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      My favorite, from the old days, was when I was trying to talk a reluctant secretary through some minor DOS voodoo. I asked if anything was on the screen. She said no. I asked, "do you mean to say that it is completely black, with no letters anywhere?" Well, no, of course not - it just said C:\DOS>

    5. Re:Electric Shock by postbigbang · · Score: 0, Troll

      You figured out part of the problem.

      1) women have no balls, so kicking them in a non-existent part of their anatomy is gruesomely stupid; how droll for the poster to think in this way at all-- this person is likely incurable of this level of sexism.
      2) the proposed puppy icons are apologies for the poster's poor and inarticulate error messages; say something in actual genuine non-geek speak to render actual information transfer between application and user when things aren't working. One can assume very little about the training level of the person being supported.
      3) no one RTFMs, so start from there.... and people will indeed read maps of where they might be and want to go within an application
      4) help systems are often incapable of English language heuristic/contextual answers that lead to problem solving by the user. Some coders believe that it's more important to make their user community dependent on them and therefore guarantee a job for the life cycle of the app than to think through adapting Murphy's Law to their apps.

      And now that I've poured kerosene on the floor, feel free to ignite it by modding me flamebait. Hating your users gets you nowhere.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    6. Re:Electric Shock by FirstNoel · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This is not an issue of hating users.

      This is an issue of people simply not, , reading the error in from of them to the tech support.

      Even if the user does not understand the error, the should be able to read it to the tech. They aren't being asked to fix it themselves.

      I like the idea of the puppy error and such.

      People remember stupid things, they'll remember the puppy error or the baby error, or the Homer error.

      Sean D

      --
      "Hmm. I am to metaphor cheese as metaphor cheese is to transitive verb crackers!"
    7. Re:Electric Shock by sammy+baby · · Score: 5, Interesting

      When I was doing support for a regional ISP, one of my coworkers figured out an ingenious way of forcing a customer to check whether or not a piece of equipment was plugged in. You can't just ask someone, "Can you check to make sure X is plugged in," because they'll say they checked already out of pique. Instead, he would tell them to unplug the power cord and plug in back in again, upside down, and would make up some hooey about how the power cords on these routers were flaky. Of course, the equipment in question always had a three-prong plug, but every once in a while the client would say, "Thanks, that worked!" and we'd know that he was covering to hide the fact that it hadn't been plugged in at all.

    8. Re:Electric Shock by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Jargon problem: seriously, where on the monitor did it indicate it was an "error message" ? Could the tech have asked, "What do you see on the screen? A grey box, what's in it? Oh!" This is user error, for sure, but there were users on both ends of the phone.

    9. Re:Electric Shock by ebuck · · Score: 1

      Because they know you'll hang around on the phone and fix it anyway. If they thought that you'd hangup the minute you knew they were lying, they'd tell the truth.

    10. Re:Electric Shock by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      a friend of mine is the technical support guy in a medium size corporation....

      he has everything setup, so he can see which device are on/off etc remotely.

      Now guess how often the guys at the phone tell him they turned the device off when he askes them to turn it off, while he looks at his screen and is seeing it online? nearly 100% of the calls are like that!

      and now that the device is turned off after 10 minutes of talking, what do you think about how long it takes until they manage to turn it back on?

    11. Re:Electric Shock by BlortHorc · · Score: 1

      And if I ever work phone support again I will assume everything, absolutely everything the person on the other end tells me is a blatant lie.

      Is it plugged in? yes? LIER!

      It it turned on? yes? LIER!

      And if I ever find out some fool has hired you to do anything in IT, even something as lowly as phone support, I will direct them to read this post.

      Hint: the word you are painfully searching for is liar.

    12. Re:Electric Shock by MrLint · · Score: 1

      If error message is 'jargon' then i think someone needs to go back and take remedial english. Those 2 words together which indicate an out of normal context alert... yeah I expect a normal person to be able to piece that together.

    13. Re:Electric Shock by bigman2003 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I disagree with your comments about the puppy picture. It is not an apology at all, it is a VERY effective means of communicating with your users.

      I *do* use this method. I have pictures of cake, a cartoon alien, a dumpster, etc. throughout my systems with different pictures having very specific meanings (to me).

      Every error gets emailed to the developers, and also logged, so there is a lot of 'professional' stuff going on behind the scenes.

      But here is a scenario I've been in before...you are sitting in a meeting, and the conversation turns to your newest creation, when one of the people says, "I was using the system this morning, and I got an error." Which could be a show-stopper as far as an positive discussion is concerned.

      But then they add, "It was a piece of chocolate cake." To which I respond, "Okay, thanks for letting me know about that- I'll get it fixed ASAP."

      The conversation moves forward, because confidence was restored in the system. The user did not have to talk about, "I don't know what it said- some computer gobbley-gook," which I would respond with "I will look into it."

      With the cake picture, the user tells me everything I need to know, in a very simple and easy to understand way.

      --
      No reason to lie.
    14. Re:Electric Shock by FooAtWFU · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I lied because I was tired of the DSL tech trying to get me to configure my SpeedStream 5100A as if it was a 5100B (the latter does routing and gives it an IP address with a web UI, the former is a dumb modem, so it's a big difference) and I just wanted some darned login credentials. Since you ask.

      But that's just me.

      --
      The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
    15. Re:Electric Shock by Michael+Kristopeit · · Score: 2, Informative
      a lier is someone who lays down. i liar is someone that tells lies.

      the first two times i didn't care, but the third, and all the high and mighty caps forced me to step in and point out how silly you look.

      why do you spell so bad?!#%*&!#^

    16. Re:Electric Shock by houghi · · Score: 5, Informative

      They lie because you ask the wrong questions. Do not ask if they see something. Ask WHAT they see.
      Another reason for lying is that they have been trained that aswering "I do not know" is wrong.

      I rather have somebody saying "I do not know." then somebody saying "I know". With the first I know I can go in babysteps and they will listen and do as I say. e.g. What do you see in the lower left of your screen "Uh, start" OK, click on that, what do you see now? Please read out everthing. The moment they are at Programs: Please click on programs, what do you see now, please read everything. At the end: Is that all or are there some signs below that? OK, click on that double arrow, what do you see now?

      Might look slower then saying :Please go to Start, Programs, ... But in the end it will save you time.

      Once I was asked if I thought they were stupid. The answer (al lie) was that _I_ was stupid and wanted to be sure I did not make a mistake.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    17. Re:Electric Shock by Noexit · · Score: 4, Insightful

      One of my peeves is users complaining about "jargon". Error messages are not jargon, proper names for peripherals are not jargon. If I ask you if your ethernet cable is plugged into your network card, that is not jargon. And yet users will tell me "why do you guys always use fancy jargon that I don't understand?".

      --

      Never argue with a man carrying a water buffalo

    18. Re:Electric Shock by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      cause it's liar, not lier...

    19. Re:Electric Shock by cgenman · · Score: 5, Funny

      I once had a user call because he "couldn't get into his e-mail." After about half an hour of being stonewalled on the phone, it turns out that:
      1. He couldn't load his e-mail because he couldn't run his e-mail application.
      2. He couldn't run his e-mail application because he couldn't run windows.
      3. He couldn't run windows because his computer wouldn't turn on.
      4. His computer wouldn't turn on because he had yanked out the previous motherboard, stuck in a new one (without a CPU, of course), and just assumed everything would work.
      5. Seeing as how this was painfully stupid, he didn't actually tell the tech support this for fear that the tech support would figure out what he had done wrong.
      6. And, instead of calling the hardware manufacturer's help line, he called his ISP.

      My second favorite tech support call was a user who was having trouble getting online, and no matter how many settings we changed nothing seemed to fix it. "Hardware problem" you suggest? Yup. Over the weekend someone had bulldozed the wall with her network jack.

      No matter how bad things might get at my current job, at least I'm not doing tech support.

    20. Re:Electric Shock by camperdave · · Score: 5, Funny

      But what if... what if the cake is a lie?

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    21. Re:Electric Shock by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's spelled L-I-A-R

    22. Re:Electric Shock by Nickodeemus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      jargon

      NOUN

      1. specialist language: language that is used by a group, profession, or culture, especially when the words and phrases are not understood or used by other people "typesetters' jargon"

      2. unintelligible language: pretentious or meaningless language ( disapproving ) "Cut the jargon and get to your point."
      ____________________________________

      Your definition and the dictionary's definition of Jargon do not agree. A network cable is just a cable of some sort to most end users. They don't recongnize it for its function, just that it plugs into thier comuter the same as the monitor cable, the power cable, etc. It's up to you to define the cable for them using terms they will understand. That is part of your role as a support person. Not bothering with this aspect of your job makes you bad at your job.

    23. Re:Electric Shock by the_hellspawn · · Score: 0

      We tried that too, but the sadistic bastards enjoyed it. :(

      --
      "The laws of science be a harsh mistress." --Bender
    24. Re:Electric Shock by Opportunist · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You have to get into the mindset of the user. "Is there something on the screen?" translates into "Does the screen display what you want it to display?". I don't know why, but it does. Or they expect something akin to movies where error messages flash in neon colors with a big ERROR or WARNING in the middle of the screen, so a simple dos prompt is certainly "nothing" in comparison.

      I have no idea how the mind of a clueless user works. Or if it does at all. But I still try to understand them. And when I'm done, I might even understand women...

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    25. Re:Electric Shock by bBarou · · Score: 1

      This story reminds me of when I was doing support for an ISP about 12 years ago. This guy calls and I can't even remember what his problem was. I remember I asked him to delete a file. Then he asks me "how do you do that?". Now I know I shouldn't but I'm pissed off, I hate those kind of questions. "go learn to use your computer before calling me, you moron", was all I wanted to say Anyway, I tell the guy how to delete the file. he does it and the asks me: Him: there's an error message , what do I do? click yes or no? Me: What does the message say? Him: Do you really want to delete the file? Me: What do we want to do? delete the file? so delete the file? Him: yes, but what do I do, yes or no? Me: what does the message say? Him: It says: Do you really want to delete the file? Me: Ok, so delete the file Him: But what do I do, click yes or no? Me (I know I'm a prick at this point, but just for the fun of it): delete the file. .... It went like this for at list 15mn, I don't even remember how it ended. All I know is some users are beyond any help.

    26. Re:Electric Shock by shaper · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And if I ever work phone support again I will assume everything, absolutely everything the person on the other end tells me is a blatant lie.

      Is it plugged in? yes? LIER! It it turned on? yes? LIER! Can you see any messeges on the screen? no? LIER!

      Why do they lie!??!?

      First off, spelling: LIAR, not LIER. Second, never ask yes-or-no questions over the phone. Always ask the user questions that force them to use their own words to describe things. I have gotten very good results by asking them to read things out loud. It seems to break through that blind spot that they have. More than once I have had a conversation go something like this:

      Me: What version number does it show in the "About" section of the window?
      Them: There isn't any "about" section.
      Me: Are you sure?
      Them (irate): Yes, there is nothing that says "about"!
      Me: OK, I must have had you go to the wrong place. Let's make sure I do know where you are. Could you please read out loud the words in the top of the window that you are looking at right now?
      Them (reading out loud): "About this application"... Oh, is that what you meant?
      Me: Yes, I'm sorry I wasn't clear. Now could you please read out loud the number that is written just below the words that you read to me?

    27. Re:Electric Shock by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Everybody lies". And thus another case is solved by House Tech Support.

    28. Re:Electric Shock by Opportunist · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Maybe we do need stuff like clippy or that puppy dog Windows has now as its "helping toon". Imagine a puppy with an error message in its mouth, looking at you from biiiiiig puppy eyes, think that might make users read the message, if only so they don't disappoint the cute puppy?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    29. Re:Electric Shock by rvw · · Score: 1

      I like the idea of the puppy error and such.

      People remember stupid things, they'll remember the puppy error or the baby error, or the Homer error.

      Sean D

      Man!!! Just say that you want Clippy!!!!!

    30. Re:Electric Shock by not_anne · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Why do they lie!??!?

      As a tech support agent, this is a question I ask myself every day.

      If a customer says, "My internet is broken," the very first thing I ask is "what error message do you see?" 9/10 times I can fix the issue based on the error message alone, without knowing anything else. But, if instead they throw some random words at me like "it says it doesn't work," then I ask them to reproduce the error. If they can't do that then it's time to shotgun troubleshoot, and I know it's going to be a long, painful phone call.

      The people who act like reading error messages is unnecessary, bothersome, or uninformative are the same ones who for some reason lie about everything. "Reboot your computer please," (one second later...) "Ok it's rebooted." Sigh.

      I wish error messages on computers were more like tv set top box errors. They stay on the screen, saying blandly, "Error 14" (for example) and so customers do tend to let us know what the error number is, because there's no way around that screen. I get the error message, look it up, and a few minutes later the issue is resolved. I say take the information about what's actually going on out of the hands of the user, since they don't care anyway, they just want it fixed. Any informed user who wants to know what "Error 14" is just needs to (gasp!) look it up on our website, and then they can fix it on their own if they so choose.

      --
      My comments here are my own; I do not speak for my employer.
    31. Re:Electric Shock by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      My favorite, from the old days, was when I was trying to talk a reluctant secretary through some minor DOS voodoo. I asked if anything was on the screen. She said no. I asked, "do you mean to say that it is completely black, with no letters anywhere?" Well, no, of course not - it just said C:\DOS>

      While we all like to laugh at stupid user tricks, the real problem is a lack of communication. In your example, you wanted to know what was on the screen and it seemed reasonable to ask if anything was on the screen; to the secretary, her answer was correct because , for here, something on the screen means "I have something I have opened" on the screen.

      One thing I have learned is don't think the other person understood what you said - their frame of reference may be different and you need to consider that when communicating.

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
    32. Re:Electric Shock by Lumpy · · Score: 3, Funny

      WE use angry midgets that punch them in the groin if they dont read the error message. One assigned to each workstation.

      works great, problem is the pay rate we have to give the midgets is 2X that of the positions that they are working at, except for management, we can get midgets to punch managers and executives in the groin for nearly free, problem is they have a high rate of false positives and un-necessary groin punches. Some have also escalated in severity, the marketing manager started wearing an aluminum groin protector, the midget assigned to him started bring in golf clubs and baseball bats...

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    33. Re:Electric Shock by Canazza · · Score: 1

      Du joo knot no dat misspellins es reqired ons da internecks, atlest wunce pir sentans. maibe moar!

      --
      It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for being subtle.
    34. Re:Electric Shock by HungryHobo · · Score: 1

      I was looking at it thinking it was wrong, on the bright side it gives the slashdot pedants something to feel smug about.

    35. Re:Electric Shock by Lumpy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Or they expect something akin to movies where error messages flash in neon colors with a big ERROR or WARNING in the middle of the screen

      i WISH the damn things would do that. BLink as well in ALL red and play a air raid siren wav at full volume.

      ony then would it get the attention of many of the zombies here at the office.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    36. Re:Electric Shock by oldspewey · · Score: 1

      define the cable for them using terms they will understand. That is part of your role as a support person.

      Okay, so using nothing but text, please describe the concise difference between:
      - An ethernet port
      - An ethernet cable
      - A telephone/fax port
      - A telephone/fax cable
      - A USB port
      - A USB cable

      ... all while assuming it's a complete newb at the other end of the phone.

      --
      If libertarians are so opposed to effective government, why don't they all move to Somalia?
    37. Re:Electric Shock by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ah but think of the trama when you have to tell that user for you the cake is over there is no more cake.

    38. Re:Electric Shock by twidarkling · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Oh lighten up you twat, this is one of the few instances that joke actually works.

      --
      Canada: The US's more awesome sibling.
    39. Re:Electric Shock by HungryHobo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That would just make them try to get rid of it even sooner and preclude all possibilities of reading it.

    40. Re:Electric Shock by twidarkling · · Score: 1

      And your point is? Proper nouns aren't jargon. Slang for it would be jargon.

      --
      Canada: The US's more awesome sibling.
    41. Re:Electric Shock by twidarkling · · Score: 1

      i liar is someone that tells lies.

      the first two times i didn't care, but the third, and all the high and mighty caps forced me to step in and point out how silly you look.

      why do you spell so bad?

      One could ask you the same question, and have a much better case for it to boot.

      --
      Canada: The US's more awesome sibling.
    42. Re:Electric Shock by Lumpy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Dear uninformed...

      1 - No balls on women, ask a woman if they find that a punch or kick to the groin area is painless. Guess what it hurts like hell to them there too. DUH, please get a basic education, then come back and refine your response.

      Also hating your users when they LIED on their resume that they are "experienced in using office computers and software" gives you 100% justification. It's simply an example that management and HR are incompetent in screening new hires.

      Sorry, but becoming confused with the windows login screen means that user needs to be fired right there and escorted from the building. They will be nothing but a liability to the IT department from that moment on. Dont get me started about the endless fight with saving your damned files on your H: drive directly or into your "my documents" so they go there anyways instead of random locations all over the hard drive.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    43. Re:Electric Shock by HungryHobo · · Score: 1

      it's "a liar " not "i liar".

    44. Re:Electric Shock by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Not to mention that panic might go as far as them pulling the plug on it, eliminating any chance to ever find out what happened, with possibly data loss as a bonus.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    45. Re:Electric Shock by Deathlizard · · Score: 1

      Personally, I like the Customer Service bat.

      Just as effective and it has the added benefit of dropping IT stress dramatically, Although the Housekeeping dept. seems to beg to differ for some reason.

      As for the question asked, My sig below covers a lot of that. The Premise of Monkey rule would probably be the best bet there.

    46. Re:Electric Shock by Bonewalker · · Score: 1, Insightful

      No, I couldn't disagree more. This was the ultimate opportunity to use The Cake Is A Lie joke. From now on, the joke is too old, but this one final, perfect, use is not only acceptable, but, I daresay, required.

      "The Pie Is A Perjury" will henceforward be the next Internet meme to be bandied about by every would-be BOFH with nothing better to do that spend hours on Slashdot waiting for an opportunity to get his karma back up with a +5 Funny.

      Good day.

    47. Re:Electric Shock by HungryHobo · · Score: 1

      It's "because" not "cause".

    48. Re:Electric Shock by einhverfr · · Score: 1

      Folks don't lie when they call tech support. However a substantial section of those who call are clueless. Just remember, if the customer was right, the customer wouldn't be calling tech support. (The obvious answer here is to write error messages that users can understand. "Uninitiailized data" will not be understood by your end user. "The program has performed an illegal operation and will be shut down" will be understood as "We're calling the cops." (When I did consumer phone support at Microsoft we had a surprising number who asked if we were really calling police over that error message....)

      IOW, have your error messages explain the problem in plain English. Instead of "uninitialized data" use something like "Required input not provided."

      However, I have a funny story along the lines of not reading error messages when I was doing server support triage at Microsoft.

      This guy called up and told me that they ran an NT4 master domain, and the PDC was behaving funny so they reformatted the hard drive and re-installed NT4. Of course, after this, nobody could log in. I asked if they had promoted a BDC and they said they had tried but were unable to do so. The guy put me on the phone with the senior network admin who repeated pretty much the same info. So I offered to stay on the phone with them while they tried (after charging for the support of course).

      The error message they couldn't get around was the error about a PDC already being online for that domain.

      "Umm... Turn off your old PDC first....."

      "Now it worked!"

      Now, I can understand users being confused, but the senior network admin?

      --

      LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
    49. Re:Electric Shock by BrokenHalo · · Score: 1

      ...translates into "Does the screen display what you want it to display?"

      Well, even that can be misleading. Back in the '80s, I worked at a site where we used a simple diagnostic tool to check network connections: the simple transmission of an ASCII-art rendition of "X". It was really funny to hear the user (after much muffled fumbling underneath his desk) respond to the question
      me: So now you should see a big "X"...
      user: No.
      me: Are you sure? There should be a big "X" on the screen.
      user: Oh, on the screen...

      But seriously, there is NO way to get a user to properly read or even record an error message. He just wants to get on with his day, and if that means ruining yours, then fine. The best thing you can do is set up your system to LOG error messages, preferably in a way that can be accessed from your desk.

    50. Re:Electric Shock by Lomby · · Score: 1

      You have two options:

      The first: be the BOFH and laugh at the stupid users, who do not read/understand the error.

      The second: be the smart programmer and anticipate user errors.

      This means that for typical user errors you should provide a concise description of the problem and a text explaining how to correct the problem.

      Example:

      "The date you entered is wrong." should be "The date you entered cannot be parsed. Please provide the date in the format YYYY/MM/DD, e.g. 2009/12/12".

      Of course, if an error pops up multiple time a day, it may be that the software is not very intuitive.

    51. Re:Electric Shock by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually I blame bad tech support for this. Bad techs use any excuse to tell the user it's something on their end so they can get off the phone. This trains users to lie, and insist that everything is fine on their end.

    52. Re:Electric Shock by noidentity · · Score: 1

      You have to ask questions that hide what you're trying to find out, like psychologists do. So you ask "which plug is it plugged into?" or "which lights are lit on the computer? (or what color)" This way, if they give you a bullshit answer, it's more likely detected, than when you ask a yes/no question.

    53. Re:Electric Shock by Creepy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I completely agree, one of the problems here is not being in the mindset of the user. What does "uninitialized data" really mean to a user? Even to me as a programmer it lacks specificity - I want to know what isn't initialized so I can fix it. As for non-programmers, uninitialized data means exactly what to them? To my wife that means "blah blah blah" what do I click to make this work? I remember my own struggles with programmer specific errors like "Syntax Error" and "Bus Error" - these terms mean nothing unless you've had computer training (and often not until you've hit them and put significant work into fixing the problem, either with print statements or learning a debugger).

      MS had this problem in Word once upon a time, using the obscure "Revert Document." I had a student crying because she lost 6 hours of work on her thesis due to that one and a couple of others that lost 45 minutes to an hour of work. In my opinion, that number should have been zero and that should have been caught in QA testing, if not earlier.

    54. Re:Electric Shock by HungryHobo · · Score: 1

      Oh the clueless you can work around but people really do lie and lie intentionally.
      For example many people will simply lie when asked the old "is it plugged in, could you plug it out and plug it in for me" hence the tips from other users above for getting people to check that without actually explicitly using those words.

      Arrogance combined with cluelessness combined with a large helping of pride leads to lies, lots and lots of lies.

    55. Re:Electric Shock by Quirkz · · Score: 1

      This is probably true, crazy as it seems. I once replaced the startup screen on an old mac with one of those bomb pictures and a "This computer will self destruct" message in my high school journalism office. All the other kids were fine with it, but a random secretary came in to borrow the computer one day and about started a bomb scare alert until we could talk her down.

    56. Re:Electric Shock by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Actually, the word he was looking for is lyre - the tech support guys find it helps them to relax...

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    57. Re:Electric Shock by Hotawa+Hawk-eye · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Absolutely. Asking the right questions the right way is key. For example, rather than asking if anything is on the screen (a yes/no question, doesn't require as much thought), you ask "What does the screen show right now?" (which actually requires some thought.)

    58. Re:Electric Shock by einhverfr · · Score: 1

      I always made people check, not because I figured they were lying but because I figured they were clueless.

      However, because they are clueless, you have to given them very specific directions.

      Your modem isn't working? Ok, I want you to look in the back of your computer for a place that looks like it has two phone jacks. Is there anything coming out of either of them? Ok, is it coming out of the one marked phone or the one marked line? Ok. Line? Let's follow that back to the wall. Is it plugged in?

      In my >1 year doing consumer tech support I had a lot of folks with things not plugged in, or plugged in wrong, and none of them were knowingly lying about it. They just didn't necessarily understand what needed to be plugged in.

      (There was one case where a woman had been bounced around between Microsoft, AOL, and Compaq because she got no dialtone. As a gesture of good will, I decided to help get things figured out enough to make sure she could get them resolved by whoever she was willing to call and pay for support if she had to pay. Turned out, when she said it was "plugged in" she meant the computer was plugged in. Once I got her to check the modem, she realized the phone line was not plugged into the modem. She didn't feel comfortable plugging this in by herself, so I recommended that she ask a friend to come over and help plug in the modem.)

      --

      LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
    59. Re:Electric Shock by HungryHobo · · Score: 1

      I blame the managers.
      Bad managers encourage that kind of behaviour by ignoring how many issues a tech solves and how much they help the customer and instead just looking at average call time and threatening to fire anyone who's stats aren't good enough.

      your scenario still doesn't entirely explain the users who make up completely fictional scenarios and pretend they're logging in to windows and will talk about what they're "seeing" the whole time when they're sitting in front of a dead box with sparks shooting out the back.

    60. Re:Electric Shock by HungryHobo · · Score: 1

      I've had a few cases where I didn't come at the "is the power cable definitly plugged in? are there lights on on the front of the computer?" question from enough of an angle and been fed lies which in those days I was naive enough to believe.
      (Case that comes to mine: Upon calling out to the site- walked in, plugged the plug into the power socket in the wall, machine booted fine, walked out)

    61. Re:Electric Shock by dcollins · · Score: 1

      "Is it plugged in? yes? LIER!"

      LIAR!

      --
      We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
    62. Re:Electric Shock by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is no error message so clear and informative that no user will act as if it isn't there.

    63. Re:Electric Shock by Hotawa+Hawk-eye · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Telling a user that you're stupid isn't such a good idea either ... I would simply say something like "No, of course not. But I deal with users who have varying levels of familiarity with computers, and so I've learned to pace my instructions so that even novice users can easily follow them. Would you prefer me to speed up a bit?" That way you're neither telling the user that they're stupid nor saying that you are, you're "blaming" the "problem" on some other (potentially non-existent) person.

    64. Re:Electric Shock by pilgrim23 · · Score: 1

      no no! Blue SCREEN of Death! "Hello building maintenance? chair cleanup in Marketing, 6th floor"

      --
      - Minutus cantorum, minutus balorum, minutus carborata descendum pantorum.
    65. Re:Electric Shock by edmicman · · Score: 1

      Wait - so the guy was capable of pulling out an old and installing a new motherboard (albeit, sans CPU), but was unable to do the basic troubleshooting from there? What kind of average user attempts a motherboard-ectomy?

    66. Re:Electric Shock by tom17 · · Score: 1

      Nice story, but I have a question. How did you change the resolution if the OS was not being displayed on the monitor? Did this computer have screen resolution hotkeys?

      Tom...

    67. Re:Electric Shock by Tetsujin · · Score: 1

      And if I ever work phone support again I will assume everything, absolutely everything the person on the other end tells me is a blatant lie.

      Is it plugged in? yes? LIER!
      It it turned on? yes? LIER!
      Can you see any messeges on the screen? no? LIER!

      Why do they lie!??!?

      "lier"?

      --
      Bow-ties are cool.
    68. Re:Electric Shock by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      its funny, the only error i ever remember seeing is the 404 on 4chan...

    69. Re:Electric Shock by StikyPad · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The karma from funny is a lie.

    70. Re:Electric Shock by budcub · · Score: 1

      I had almost the same thing happen to me. A user "couldn't get into his email". After troubleshooting over the phone for a while:

      1. His laptop was infected with MS Blaster
      2. Which caused it to reboot as soon as Windows loaded
      3. Which prevented him from launching Outlook.
      4. Which meant his email didn't work

      Strange logic, but once we cleared off the MS Blaster his email worked again. If only he had started off saying that his laptop kept rebooting and wouldn't let him do anything we could have figured it out a lot faster.

    71. Re:Electric Shock by Ohrion · · Score: 1

      canceling mod.

    72. Re:Electric Shock by HungryHobo · · Score: 1

      it was a little weird .
      The messege was bouncing slowly around over the top of the windows 98 desktop.

      It was something the monitor was generating, not windows.
      The resolution was a bit off- words blured in a way that reminded me of when my drivers got corrupted but I have no idea why it both displayed the error and also displayed the desktop or at least why it would display the error if it could display the desktop at all.
       

    73. Re:Electric Shock by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was doing help desk support (server side but we swapped 1/2 day shifts twice a week on helpdesk - "cost savings" y'know)... I get this call from someone that they can't call their file up...

      Ok, does it give you any *error* message?

      "Nope, nothing... just some garbage on the screen"

      Ok, what do you mean by "garbage".. is it graphics? letters and numbers?

      "Just some garbage"

      Again, what kind of garbage? Letters?

      "Yes, mostly letters"

      Ok, does it say something? Can you read it to me?

      "It says... File Not Found"

      Sigh.

    74. Re:Electric Shock by lastchance_000 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I tend to wonder how often the issue in the user's mind is, "I did something to it and now it doesn't work. My best option is to deny everything."

    75. Re:Electric Shock by Runaway1956 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Well, the all red stuff would suit me just fine. I can't see it. Back in the days of Dos, I fiddled around with the screen colors, and found a combination that looked kinda cool, then made it flash. The wife took one look at the screen and told me that there are epileptics in the family who would fall over if they saw that.

      Bearing in mind that it would be myself who had care for those epileptics until they recovered, I stopped tinkering with color schemes . . . .

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    76. Re:Electric Shock by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Is it plugged in? yes? LIER!
      It it turned on? yes? LIER!
      Can you see any messeges on the screen? no? LIER!

      Why do they lie!??!?

      Liar is spelled LIAR.

      They're not lying. they have a blind spot, like your spelling.

    77. Re:Electric Shock by mcvos · · Score: 1

      That would just make them try to get rid of it even sooner and preclude all possibilities of reading it.

      You need to make the "close" button appear only after it's been flashing for a minute.

      Also hook it up to a speech synthesis program that reads the error out loud to them during that minute. Loud enough so anyone they're talking to on the phone will hear it too. That should solve at least some percentage of clueless user problems.

    78. Re:Electric Shock by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A full reset often "fixes" routers. -- which unplugging would do --
      So, that may be hiding the *real* problem... but for the customer, it's a quick fix.

    79. Re:Electric Shock by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is a common mistake computer-savvy people make...

      If it's more complicated than your user can understand, it's jargon.

    80. Re:Electric Shock by daremonai · · Score: 1

      That's the answer! Just have 4chan design all the error messages. They would be guaranteed to be memorable. Also legally actionable perhaps, but that's a side issue.

    81. Re:Electric Shock by Korin43 · · Score: 1

      Switching a motherboard requires removing like 4 screws. It's not brain surgery (until the robot rights activists get their way at least).

    82. Re:Electric Shock by AttilaSz · · Score: 3, Funny

      "'ll get it fixed ASAP"

      After all, it's a piece of cake.

      --
      Sig erased via substitution of an identical one.
    83. Re:Electric Shock by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you trying to say that "ethernet" isn't jargon?

      Why would, say, a 55 year old accountant need to know what an ethernet cable is? Didn't the Michelson-Morley experiment prove that there is no ether...

      If you at least called it "internet cable" they would have a chance to understand.

      - Peder

    84. Re:Electric Shock by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      jargon1 [jahr-guhn, -gon]
      –noun
      1. the language, esp. the vocabulary, peculiar to a particular trade, profession, or group: medical jargon.

      That is all.

    85. Re:Electric Shock by jwiegley · · Score: 1

      This is totally true! Alfred Kinsey used it to great affect in his landmark survey on sexual practices. When he interviewed a person he didn't ask "Have you ever kissed somebody of the same sex?" which is a straightforward clinical question to figure out how many people have had a homosexual kiss. Instead he asked "How old were you when you first kissed somebody of the same sex?"

      The difference is huge. The first can be considered accusatory, similar to "Have you ever robbed a gas station?". Whether the person has ever done this or not doesn't matter; they want to avoid being blamed as it seems the question is trying to uncover a secret. But the second approach starts with a question that assumes that everybody does it; that the "secret" is in fact well known. In other words... "How old were you when you robbed your first store?" has two benefits A) it presents the person with a question that assumes that he has already done it. So there is less benefit to lying. B) it implies that everybody does it at some age and therefore it is an acceptable behavior. Including the interviewer, thus answering truthfully appears to gain you allies or a supportive group.

      --
      I will never live for sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.
    86. Re:Electric Shock by reshin · · Score: 1

      User analysis, task analysis, and usability testing.

    87. Re:Electric Shock by wealthychef · · Score: 1

      Also, save all errors in a common log file with a time stamp that can be reviewed by knowledgeable peeps later.

      --
      Currently hooked on AMP
    88. Re:Electric Shock by SpacePunk · · Score: 1

      Rule #1 is that the user is stupid.

      Yes, users are stupid. I worked at a small ISP, and they sold individual email accounts. I get a call one day from a lady that said she couldn't get her e-mail. After a good fifteen minutes of wrangling out exactly what the problem was it was discovered that she couldn't get logged in to her ISP. So, I direct her to call her ISP she gets all pissed off that I couldn't help her get her e-mail. It took another 15 minutes to get her to realize that she couldn't get her e-mail because she couldn't log on to her ISP in order to get connected to the internet. Even after all that she's like "Don't you guys talk to each other?" As if we all know each other, and share account details and such.

    89. Re:Electric Shock by MobyDisk · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It covers half the screen and the only way it could make more of a point that it's there is if it was flashing in many colours.

      This may sound strange, but I completely understand the user's behavior.

      How many monitors have you seen that bounce a message box around saying "No video signal" instead of just going to sleep? I can understand displaying that for 10 seconds, but I've come back hours later to find this message still on the screen. Users ignore these types of messages. They probably saw a bouncing grey box, and their brain completely filtered it out. This is the same brain circuitry that helps people to ignore ads, or the sound of the person sitting behind them sniffling, or the fuzziness in their TV signal. The human brain is a freakin' awesome pattern recognition and filtering tool.

    90. Re:Electric Shock by sharkey · · Score: 1

      Perhaps HungryHobo's users are tired, and their work environments are tailored to remaining horizontal.


      Or, he may be mad at certain Belgians.

      --

      --
      "Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
    91. Re:Electric Shock by element-o.p. · · Score: 1

      No joke, this is a true story. I couldn't make this up if I tried.

      I was a sys admin at a company that had remote sites scattered all over roughly a million square miles of remote wetlands. We had just built a microwave network to cover parts of this area, but previously, we had used another company's wireless Internet service to provide connectivity to some of our sites. We were migrating one of the sites from wireless to our microwave network, and I had a (very non-technical) tech at the remote site being my eyes and hands. I had the tech connect network cables between a router, a switch and all of our equipment, and instructed him to remove the equipment for the wireless network. "Ok," he tells me. Just to be sure, I reiterate that *all* of the wireless equipment has to be removed because we aren't using any of it anymore. Yep, he understands. We begin to troubleshoot the network. His computer is getting an IP address that is on a completely different network than what I have set the router to assign. It's not even close. None of the four octets match. I double-check my router config -- yep, it's good. I walk him through making sure he's getting a DHCP address rather than a static IP address on the PC. Yep, it's DHCP. I have him disconnect his PC, reboot, and read the IP address -- it's an APIPA address, so he definitely doesn't have a static IP address assigned to his network interface. I have him reconnect the PC and I run TCPDump on the router (it's a Linux based router, with a very complete networking toolset) -- he gets the 192.168.x.y address again, but I don't see any traffic on the network interface. I check, double-check and triple-check that there is nothing between his PC and the router other than the Ethernet cable -- nope, just the network cable. I ask him over and over again in every different way I can think of to phrase the question, because it's apparent to me that he is getting an IP address from something other than my router. No, nothing between the PC and the router but a single Ethernet cable. For THREE FRIGGING DAYS we troubleshoot this connection, and the tech sticks to his story -- there is nothing between the PC and the router except for the Ethernet cable. Finally, I'm done. I've tested everything I can think of. I *know* the wireless router is still connected to his computer, so in desperation, I ask one last time, just to be sure, that he has removed the wireless router and plugged the PC into the Linux-based router I had shipped out.

      "Let me try that," he says.

      If I could have reached through the phone and strangled him, I would have.

      --
      MCSE? No, sir...I don't do Windows. Yes, I am an idealist. What's your point?
    92. Re:Electric Shock by Nickodeemus · · Score: 1

      Just because you fail to be able to do this does not mean an end user fails to comprehend descriptions of what these cables look like, what the shapes are, where they connect, possibly what color they are, etc. End users can be can be infuriatingly dense at times but it is up to you as the support professional to find a level at which they can communicate thier needs to you and you communicate the fix to them. If you cannot do this then you should not be in the support business.

    93. Re:Electric Shock by bhtooefr · · Score: 1

      Use standarized colors for the ethernet and phone cables.

      Assume that the user knows what an RJ-11 port looks like.

      Now...

      Ethernet port: "That thing that looks like a fat phone jack"
      Ethernet cable: "The blue cable" (if that's your standard) or, if you have no standard, "the one that doesn't fit in a phone jack, but looks like a phone cable."
      Telephone port: We already determined that the user knows that.
      Telephone cable: "The light grey cable with a phone plug on the end"
      USB port: "The small rectangular one"
      USB cable: "The one with a small rectangular plug"

    94. Re:Electric Shock by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey, fucktard - not everyone knows what Ethernet is, and not everyone knows what a network card is.

      You arrogant cunt. People like you are the reason normal employees don't like dealing with IT.

      I'd bet you I could rattle off some terminology that YOU wouldn't understand, and it would still be within the scope of computing and network technology.

      Fucking asshole.

    95. Re:Electric Shock by Eristone · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I like a challenge...

      define the cable for them using terms they will understand. That is part of your role as a support person.

      Okay, so using nothing but text, please describe the concise difference between:

      - An ethernet port

      On the back/side of your computer you will see two holes that look like spots to plug in a phone cord. There'll be a little one and a big one. The big one is called an "ethernet" or "network" port, or if you want the fancy term, an RJ-45 connector, but we wont' be using that term again anywhere in this call...

      - An ethernet cable

      You'll find a cord or wire - it's pretty thick and has a big plug on each end. The plugs look like phone plugs, but larger. This is your "ethernet" or "network" cable.

      - A telephone/fax port

      actually this one you really don't have to go out of your way to describe as most people have experience with this one. So look for the spot that looks like a good place to plug in a phone cord.

      - A telephone/fax cable

      This is another one where people have a frame of reference so it doesn't take a description really. Look for the phone cable.

      - A USB port

      Hi - we need to find your USB port on your computer. It will look like a flat rectangle and there may be a bunch on the front and back of the computer. It's usually the place you plug your iPod in when you connect it to your computer.

      - A USB cable

      USB cables ... look for the wire that has a flat rectangle on one end, it may have all sorts of different sized things on the other end and we're not going to worry about that now. On the flat end, there should be an arrow and a couple of other funny looking symbols. There ya go - you have the right cable.

      ... all while assuming it's a complete newb at the other end of the phone.

      And is there anything else I can help you with, today? Your old telephone tech support people (not seen very often nowadays) are used to walking complete newbies or people who are scared they're going to break things through plugging things in, turning it on and then editing configuration files, usually while not at a computer themselves.

    96. Re:Electric Shock by misiu_mp · · Score: 1

      Thats because it was a _windows_ senior admin. Windows teaches to ignore error messages and that applies to everyone.

    97. Re:Electric Shock by ubrgeek · · Score: 1

      What do you expect them to say, "It's a UNIX system! I know this!" as giant dinosaurs run past in the background?

      --
      Bark less. Wag more.
    98. Re:Electric Shock by Vrtigo1 · · Score: 1

      You know what an Ethernet cable is, but you shouldn't assume everyone else does. "The blue cable with a big phone plug on the end" will yield a higher chance of the user selecting the correct cable. Once you're sure they have the right cable in hand, then you can go back to refering to it as an "Ethernet" or "network" cable, so that particular user might remember what it's called for future calls to support.

    99. Re:Electric Shock by budgenator · · Score: 1

      me: Does AOL block out-going Port 80?
      AOL Tech support: "No sir AOL doesn't block any ports"
      me: then why can't I send email from my website?
      (15 minutes of chasing my tail later )
      AOL " Well sir you can't do that we block out-going port 80, why would you want to do that anyways?"

      the lies work both ways!

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    100. Re:Electric Shock by Unequivocal · · Score: 1

      My old business partner could switch into the mindset at will - he still can actually. It's pretty amazing - he can look at a UI screen and respond to as a total bumfuck user would, despite being quite experienced with computers after all these years. I have no idea how he does it, but it's a skill I've come to value highly.

    101. Re:Electric Shock by Unequivocal · · Score: 1

      I agree with you - the puppy idea sounds just about perfect. "Oh noes, I got the heart error again - Jane knows how to fix the heart error, but I hope I don't get a puppy error, those are tougher."

      I remember a company I worked at in the early 90's had a feature that would result in incurable data loss if you did not take a series of steps (those steps being listed on the screen you entered to undertake the final step). Some of those steps were physical (like rotating a blank tape into a separate system) - so they were hard to verify within the software.

      The programmer had put on that final step an input box, and right above the input box it said something like:

      Please type the following into the box before continuing..
      I have free-will and completed all the steps required to continue.

      Unless the user entered exactly that phrase into the input box it wouldn't continue. We still got a few calls of lost data, but a lot more folks paid attention when they basically had to assert their own free will first. :)

    102. Re:Electric Shock by HungryHobo · · Score: 1

      You mean port 25?
      Blocking port 80 would be weird.

    103. Re:Electric Shock by johnw · · Score: 1

      If error message is 'jargon' then i think someone needs to go back and take remedial english.

      But so often when a user complains about a message being "jargon", it's no such thing. We're back to the "not reading the message" problem. Users *assume* it will be jargon and thus don't read it. I've lost track of the number of times I've had people complain about jargon when there hasn't even been a hint of jargon in the message.

    104. Re:Electric Shock by pizzap · · Score: 1

      And if I ever work phone support again I will assume everything, absolutely everything the person on the other end tells me is a blatant lie.

      Is it plugged in? yes? LIER! It it turned on? yes? LIER! Can you see any messeges on the screen? no? LIER!

      Why do they lie!??!?

      They want you to do their work.

    105. Re:Electric Shock by mr_walrus · · Score: 1

      >Any informed user who wants to know what "Error 14" is just needs to (gasp!) look it up on our website, and then they can fix it on their own if they so choose...

      arggggggh, i hit this with cable-internet support.

      "Whenever your service is down, we have this CONVENIENT website you can
      visit to see if there are "known" problems in your area."

      uh.... if i cannot connect, how do i go to the website?

    106. Re:Electric Shock by DaveGod · · Score: 1

      How would anyone who needs to call tech support because the Ethernet cable isn't correctly plugged in possibly know what an Ethernet cable or network card is?

      They have some cables and a box. Shit, the "network card" isn't even a card any more (and "card" was always a bit of a stretch), but no matter since it's hidden away inside the box so they never had much chance of knowing anyway.

      If you do something regularly and people usually understand then yeah maybe the rare guy that doesn't is stupid. If people often do not understand, then by definition they are not stupid, but your carrying on with this fruitless pursuit implies you probably are.

    107. Re:Electric Shock by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Once I was asked if I thought they were stupid. The answer (al lie) was that _I_ was stupid and wanted to be sure I did not make a mistake.

      Ahh, but you see, you are stupid.. You work in tech support!

    108. Re:Electric Shock by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      Another variation I've heard on that is telling the user that there might be dust in their connection. So they should unplug the connection, blow on the plug and then plug it back in. It's a good way of getting the user to ensure the thing is plugged in, without directly asking them if they checked to see if it is plugged in.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    109. Re:Electric Shock by johnw · · Score: 1

      "The date you entered is wrong." should be "The date you entered cannot be parsed. Please provide the date in the format YYYY/MM/DD, e.g. 2009/12/12".

      You think the average user knows what "parsed" means?!

      Both the original error message and your "improved" version are horrendously bad. For a genuine improvement you need to make the entry of the date much more user friendly - it should be the computer's job to adjust to the user, not the other way around.

      Either use a versatile date parser, or give the poor user a calendar and let them click on the required date. If you really insist on an error message then something like, "I'm sorry - I didn't understand that" is more on the right lines.

    110. Re:Electric Shock by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1) women have no balls, so kicking them in a non-existent part of their anatomy is gruesomely stupid; how droll for the poster to think in this way at all-- this person is likely incurable of this level of sexism.

      I was friends with a few of the women rugby team at uni, and one of them got a boot in the cunt in one game. I didn't need her to tell me that it hurt, I could see from the opposite sideline.

    111. Re:Electric Shock by tuomoks · · Score: 1

      Who is the user? It really doesn't matter be they operator, administrator, developer, CIO or whoever working professionally in IT - they would be no better with an error message as "uninitialized data" than any person from street. Have seen that (more than!) enough in my 40+ year software developer / designer / architect jobs. Have had fight it over with vendor / producer "support" and developers - not really their fault but the (huge!!) software / hardware enterprises which just can't handle their documentation.

      The problem often is the jargon used by/in the system (developers, administrators, managers). Even inside one country / one profession the meanings change and over time even more. Now - try to work that globally / different (changing) cultures / languages / etc, good luck! I have found that sometimes sad, sometimes hilarious but always frustrating and wasting time. Assuming that each car driver (most of us?) would understand error messages as "warning, AFR under 14" and what can happen if you don't stop immediately. Or that oil pressure is xxxx Pascals - maybe too low? And we have had cars longer than computers - or?

      I really, really hate the "certifications" and "training" lately, doesn't help - too many just know certain numbers, buttons, colors, whatever for one product and one version, has no idea what they mean in reality! How is that knowledge any better than the users or support personnel reading from (old?) script or ... has?

    112. Re:Electric Shock by Z34107 · · Score: 1

      I work at the help desk on my campus. People lie because they don't want to do anything. They don't want to crawl underneath their desk. They don't want to read. They don't want to recollect what they were doing when the error happened.

      They want you to "fix" it. They believe you have the magic powers to make all their problems go away with just a few keystrokes on your end but, like the malevolent demigod you are, you refuse. Who cares if the network cable is plugged in? Just fix it!

      This is exacerbated because most of our help desk is staffed by students. Staff and faculty want you to run them and ignore the other 20 calls that will go to voicemail while you trek across campus to push the power button on their monitor for them.

      So, they lie. "Of COURSE I checked the ethernet cable. Of COURSE the monitor's plugged in."

      The only way to deal with liars is to lie, of course. Don't ask, "Is your network cable plugged in?" That's underneath their desk! They're not crawling down there - that's your job. The answer will always be "yes." Tell them simply: "Oh, it's plugged in BACKWARDS."

      Of course that's horseshit. You can't plug an ethernet cable in backwards. But they don't know that - if they did, they wouldn't be calling. Flipping it around the "right" way forces them to check that both ends are plugged in.

      Don't ask, "Is there an error message on your screen?" They already clicked through it; you will never get that message back. Have them reboot and try again, but tell them when they see a dialog saying "Error XYZ 123" they have to pick option "A." There is no such error, of course, but they'll read every dialog looking for it, and you'll know what they're doing.

      If you don't know what's going on or can't work intelligible English out of them, lie. Make something up. "The network is down" works well. Then hang up and escalate it to somebody who might know. Follow up later - "Yeah, the network was down, but I fixed it." Meaning they had inbox quota again after IT emptied the gigabytes of PSD files out of their trash, but whatever. Close enough, and they'll think you moved heavens and earth.

      The original poster is approaching this all wrong: People are illiterate, lying cretins. You will never get them to read the error message to you. But, you can trick them into doing what you want.

      --
      DATABASE WOW WOW
    113. Re:Electric Shock by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, your rage came out of nowhere.

      Lemme guess, you had to ask someone what "ethernet" and "network card" were, right?

    114. Re:Electric Shock by Supurcell · · Score: 1

      PC LOAD LETTER

    115. Re:Electric Shock by Jeian · · Score: 1

      One of the things I learned very quickly when working at a helpdesk was to always remote into the machine and look at the problem for myself before doing anything else.

      After I got promoted to senior technician, one of the constant thorns in my side was junior technicians taking the user's word for what the problem is.

      Like when I get something escalated to me because the rep worked for half an hour trying to solve a printer problem ("I can't print") when what the user actually meant was "I can't start the application that generates the reports that I then print." ... but I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir...

    116. Re:Electric Shock by TheCarp · · Score: 1

      > Is it plugged in? yes? LIER!
      > It it turned on? yes? LIER!
      > Can you see any messeges on the screen? no? LIER!

      Now now, its not always a lie. Often its an omission.

      I was a desktop tech in the same hospital that my mother worked at. One day, the lead help desk tech calls me "I just spent an hour on the phone with your mother".
      "You did, what happened?"
      "Apparently they moved their desktop machine, I was just trying to get her to plug the network wire back into the wall, it was painful. In the end I had to dispatch a tech."
      "Really? Did she tell you that shes nearly blind? Can't see worth shit, only one eye even works, and that ones nearly useless."
      "What!?!?... your shitting me"
      "Nope".

      -Steve

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    117. Re:Electric Shock by skatull · · Score: 0

      Old school BOFH's used the IBM command TRMUSER option (*IMMED) or (*DELAY). Immediate = Increase Keyboard Voltage, Delayed = Increase Screen Radiation.

    118. Re:Electric Shock by VShael · · Score: 1

      But that IS jargon! To the non-initiated, that is jargon. It's just so commonplace to you that you no longer recognise it as jargon.

      I remember the first time I attended a computer lecture (as a maths student, it was in year 3) and the lecturer mentioned an RS232 cable. Blank looks from the math students. Laughs from the computer students with whom we shared the class.

      They couldn't understand our ignorance of such a basic term.

      Of course, we had the tables turned in our favour when the computer students tried their hand at linear algebra.

    119. Re:Electric Shock by gemtech · · Score: 1

      only the first item is flamebait, IMHO. "say something in actual genuine non-geek speak " is very insightful. I'm reminded of "Office Space" and the FAX maching displaying "PC LOAD LETTER".

      --
      Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Albert Einstein
    120. Re:Electric Shock by aquila.solo · · Score: 1

      Unless you're talking about Steve Jobs...

      Oh well, I didn't like that karma anyway.

    121. Re:Electric Shock by Supurcell · · Score: 1

      Normal people who have, apparently, forgotten how to laugh at themselves. Everybody's life is full of pain and suffering, and is nothing but a cruel joke. You can either be in on the joke and enjoy your life, or wallow in self pity, getting offended at everything that mentions your hilarious human condition on the internet.

    122. Re:Electric Shock by Warhawke · · Score: 1

      As far as help desks go, this type of baby-step process may work on an individual level, but it also contributes to the problem of inordinate queue times. I've been on both sides of the line, but that doesn't assuage my mood when I've been waiting 4 hours on hold to solve my legitimately complicated problem just because the tech has had to spend the last 2 hours figuring out that the person two up in front of me has her space bar confused with her enter key. As far as the OP's problem is concerned, there should probably be a differentiation between processes regarding how novice and expert users handle reporting of errors. Chocolate cake might work great for Joe CEO, but it doesn't necessarily help ME figure out what's going on.

    123. Re:Electric Shock by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem obviously is that the message on the screen did not contain the keyword "error". So how was she supposed to know it was an error message? In her eyes, the monitor was broken because it was not showing the usual thing but something else.

    124. Re:Electric Shock by teh_commodore · · Score: 1

      I had a customer the other day open up a ticket because he wasn't seeing data for the last two days. I checked the logs, and sure enough, it looked like our product just STOPPED 2 days before. Turns out, they had the date set wrong on the box.

      So even that isn't good enough.

      --
      --"insert clever quote here"
    125. Re:Electric Shock by Nickodeemus · · Score: 1

      You are incorrect in what you term proper nouns. ethernet cable is not a proper noun. Ethernet Cable George is a proper noun since it takes a general item and specifies an individual of that general item that has the name George. Jargon indicates proper words, not slang, pertaining to a specific subset of the language. That is, computer terms, legal terms, medical terms, HVAC terms, anthropology terms, etc. These are all actual words and not slang; they are mostly understood by people in and working with those in specific fields of interest. This does not mean that they do not have application outside that field, but that in speaking on these subjects the word has specific meaning to the subject. And thus, the people involved in the subject may have understanding of said words that people not involved in the subject do not. Jargon has nothing whatsoever to do with slang because jargon is a very clearly defined real word that may not be understood in certain context by an average person.

    126. Re:Electric Shock by moose_hp · · Score: 1

      Quick anecdote time.

      I actually had this conversation:

      (friend) Hey, I got a problem with my machine, could you help me?
      (me) Sure, what's up?
      (friend) _random app_ isn't working
      (me) Ok, did it showed a message error?
      (friend) Yes
      (me) What did it said?
      (friend) uuhh... what?
      (me) The error! what did it said?
      (friend) Sorry, I don't understand what you're saying
      (me) You said there was an error message, what were the words on the error message window?
      (friend) I don't know
      (me) You don't know?
      (friend) No, I just clicked OK
      (me) Well, sorry man, I can't help you
      (friend) Fuck you, asshole

      Not even Dr. Seuss could write an error message that could be understood by that kind of user.

      --
      DON'T PANIC.
    127. Re:Electric Shock by DwySteve · · Score: 1

      Maybe we do need stuff like clippy or that puppy dog Windows has now as its "helping toon". Imagine a puppy with an error message in its mouth, looking at you from biiiiiig puppy eyes, think that might make users read the message, if only so they don't disappoint the cute puppy?

      Well, I always figured the puppy scheme wasn't to engender good feelings in the users, but instead to increase the message distance (communication theory term) between similar messages for the user. Thus a 'PC LOAD LETTER' type message is rightly gibberish to them, and who can tell one gibberish from another? But a puppy.. everyone knows puppies! Plus it's odd enough to get your attention... what does a puppy have to do with my program? They just might read it out of curiosity and fix their own problem.

      --
      http://angryee.blogspot.com
    128. Re:Electric Shock by Terrasque · · Score: 1

      When I worked as tech support at an ISP, I had a routinely way of re-asking questions in a different way, and thus rather quickly build up an idea of the user's "truthfulness".

      Let me give you a few examples:

        -I ask the customer what the color of the power light is. He answers green.
        -I do some other questions, remembering that the power light should be green.
        -After a few more questions, I might ask the color of the first light to the left (power), or ask if any lights are blinking (only power light (sometimes) does that on that router).

        -I ask customer to tell me the cables on the modem, and note that the one in Ethernet (2nd from left) is a blue cable.
        -Again, continue check of other things
        -Ask the customer what cable is at number 2 from left on the Speedtouch box (note, same box, different name. Also require the customer to know left from right). If he says the wrong cable, I ask second from right. If still wrong I know user read up wrong box either now or earlier, and you'd have to be careful about that.

      I do this with several things several times in the conversation, and it quickly gives me an idea of how reliable the user is, and how well he/she follows my directions (and other things, like if they know left / right, box is upside down, how well they know the name of the equipment and so forth). I can then change my wordings and directions to suit the user's level (all the way to "Take the blue cable. Connect it to the box labelled Speedtouch *wait till user have managed to find both* put it in the yellow opening with the text "Ethernet" right below it. On the back, other side of the lights. Found it? Good.")

      They call you because they don't know about this. Ask them what they see. Ask them what happens. Let them explain in their own words. They don't know what's important, and try to let them know its better if they tell way too much than skip one small important detail. Don't interrupt them when they're telling about the mundane parts of it, try to clarify after if it's unclear, or gently nudge them in the correct direction if they seem unsure. Try not to correct them, but remember what names they used on them, and use the same names. If ethernet cable and phone cable means nothing to them, use "thick" and "thin" or "flat" cable, or if they are different colors, use the colors of the cables.

      Simply put, don't talk down to them, don't confuse them needlessly, don't make them feel foolish or stupid. Talk with them at their level, identify the problem they have, and fix it.

      --
      It's The Golden Rule: "He who has the gold makes the rules."
    129. Re:Electric Shock by shermo · · Score: 1

      Once I was asked if I thought they were stupid. The answer (al lie) was that _I_ was stupid and wanted to be sure I did not make a mistake.

      Once? :D

      --
      Insanity: voting in the same two parties over and over again and expecting different results
    130. Re:Electric Shock by metamatic · · Score: 1

      I completely agree, one of the problems here is not being in the mindset of the user.

      That's all very well, but even if your error messages are in plain English, people still don't read them.

      I get users complaining that they can't save a request they're entering, and they don't know why. When you ask them what is on the screen, it's a dialog box saying "You need to specify the whether enrollment is allowed for this event", and the cursor is positioned next to some checkboxes, yet they still somehow can't fathom that they have to check one of the boxes before they can save.

      --
      GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
    131. Re:Electric Shock by neuro1986 · · Score: 1

      I find this view rather inappropriate. This is jargon to the user but in the same way to me that medical terms are jargon to me. I wouldn't have a clue if a doctor asked me if my *insert body part name* was connected to *insert another body part name*. It's part and parcel of a tech support's job to diagnose and repair a problem using the limited information given.

      Yes it's hard, much the same way a doctor's job must be hard. But in the same way doctors have medical tests, we have logs and trace programs to try and see what is wrong to remedy the issue.

      I feel that it's lacking in professional attitude to feel the need for an end user to completely understand our job to get a problem solved.

    132. Re:Electric Shock by Terrasque · · Score: 1

      I did something similar for a period. Cute puppies, hamsters, kittens, ducks.. you know it. It was mostly a joke :)

      I had to stop it. You know why? No, not some boss. Not the other coders. It was because people were complaining when I fixed the various bugs, and they didn't get to see their cute ! :)

      --
      It's The Golden Rule: "He who has the gold makes the rules."
    133. Re:Electric Shock by Capt.DrumkenBum · · Score: 1

      You pay your management groin punching midgets?
      Mine pay me for the privilege.

      --
      If I were God, wouldn't I protect my churches from acts of me?
    134. Re:Electric Shock by Underfoot · · Score: 1

      lp0 on fire.

      --
      I mentioned tinker-toys once in a post - now I'm modded down for life.
    135. Re:Electric Shock by Toonol · · Score: 1

      That's true. Knowledgeable customers often end up lying to the clueless helpdesk when trying to get past their stupid checklists and actually get the specific task done.

      It cuts both ways.

    136. Re:Electric Shock by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Jargon is terminology that is specific to a field of knowledge. If someone were to use equivalent terms for financial derivitives, or medical terminology, you'd find it to be jargon, too. It's still jargon, even if it's accurate.

      Jargon just means people outside of the field are not familiar with the terms.

    137. Re:Electric Shock by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 1

      I have found a dialogue box saying "The system is totally stuffed" with a single button labeled "Oh, Fuck" works quite well.

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
    138. Re:Electric Shock by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      no offence, but if you know there's an error a user will see so you go and put a picture of a cake on it, wouldnt it just be better to gracefully handle the exception in the first place?

      if the only knowledge you need is that the user got a cake, the fact it's a cake and not goobldygook says you could have already fixed it and never shown the user cake.

    139. Re:Electric Shock by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or tits. Tits will do it. A big honkin' rack. Even women and male homosexuals will notice them due to atavistic carry over from infant milk-hunting brain algorithm.

    140. Re:Electric Shock by FreeFull · · Score: 1

      Guru meditation. Just... guru meditation.

      --
      No ascii art.
    141. Re:Electric Shock by kandela · · Score: 1

      I think the respondent's point is that many error messages are nonsensical and thus hard to remember. Often, I read an error message only to forget it 5 seconds after I've clicked Ok. Sure, a puppy dog or a baby would help with this (personally I like the colour and number system). What would also help is if the error was informative (and not written in binary).

      --
      Conservation of angular momentum makes the world go round.
    142. Re:Electric Shock by jonbryce · · Score: 1

      Just switch it off and on again. That might fix it. Or at least that's how most people try to fix a broken photocopier when it does something like that.

    143. Re:Electric Shock by Matheus · · Score: 1

      I got practice using this method just because Microsoft keeps changing the names of things in Windows. Most things tend to stay in somewhat the same place but I can't necessarily remember which version did what based on whatever version is in front of me at the time.

      Your example above:
      M: In the lower left hand corner do you see "Start"?
      T: No.
      M: What do you see?
      T: (Vista and Above)A little colored flag.
      M: OK.. click that.. now go to Programs.
      T: (Win7)What? I don't see programs...
      M: OK.. click in the text box right above the wavy flag and type the following...

      I've been able to debug pieces of software I've never used over the phone using the same methodology only usually starting more with:
      M: Look at the top of your window.. do you see the words "File" or "Edit"...
      You get the idea...

      Dealing with the techno-illiterate comes with practice.. teaching my 90 year old grandma was decent but NOTHING compared to selling computers to the unwashed for a stretch at Best Buy.

    144. Re:Electric Shock by Xoltri · · Score: 1

      Explain that you use the correct terminology because otherwise you would be saying 'I plugged the thingy into the thingy but the thingy still won't let me get onto the thingy'.

      --
      -Xoltri
    145. Re:Electric Shock by Michael+Kristopeit · · Score: 1

      i misspelled "a" as "i" above, fulfilling my wunce pir sentans quota.

    146. Re:Electric Shock by kandela · · Score: 1

      I've been on the phone with an ISP tech person who assumed I was an idiot or lying to them.

      After informing them that, 'yes, in fact a telecommunications electrician has checked the phone line, but I don't see how that could be the problem,' and then having them tell me, "Mr. [X], you mustn't have done something, we will have to go through the procedure again." This would have been the 3rd time, I'd been on the phone for over an hour.

      My response. "No, we've done it twice over the phone, I already did the same thing 3 times myself. And actually it's Dr. [X]." That stopped him dead. He stopped hassling me and passed on the problem to someone higher up.

      We got a call back the next day. Turns out there was a bug in the ISP's code.

      Moral to the story: best use for a doctorate, correcting tech support people who thing you're stupid.

      --
      Conservation of angular momentum makes the world go round.
    147. Re:Electric Shock by kandela · · Score: 1

      thing = think.

      --
      Conservation of angular momentum makes the world go round.
    148. Re:Electric Shock by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your'e a LIAR!

    149. Re:Electric Shock by element-o.p. · · Score: 1

      Understanding and perspective are certainly necessary, but definitely not sufficient. Real life is nowhere near as simple as you make it sound. Point by point:

      1) If you think of O.P.'s comment as being a metaphor (i.e., hurt them enough to train them), it sounds a lot less sexist. His example is simply the most painful thing he can think of. I still believe the carrot is a lot more effective than the stick, but when you get desperate enough, you use the stick, too.

      2) Complete and total bovine scatology (i.e., B.S.) From my personal experience, to help my users get the IP address of their machines, I wrote a script that does an "ifconfig eth0" (yes, the computers were running Linux), then created an icon on the desktop that has a red and white checkered flag and says "Help Me" underneath it. All they had to do was click on the picture, and read what it printed on the screen, but if I had a dollar for every tech that said "no," when asked if there was a picture of a flag anywhere on the screen of their monitor that had "Help Me" written underneath it, I could retire and live like a king in Patagonia. Sometimes, no matter how simple you make it, it isn't simple enough. As the saying goes, if you make something idiot proof, they will just build better idiots.

      3) Agreed, no one (frequently including myself) RTFM's -- although I maintain that that is often the result of an FM that is thicker than a dictionary, and written by the lowest subcontractor in India, whose only qualifications are having finished first semester English. As far as reading road maps...well, sometimes, and maybe even "frequently", your users will follow a road map to where they want to go, but that's hardly a given. I have users who want to be (repeatedly) spoonfed everything. As in, they won't take any notes when you are explaining something, and will instead call you for help each and every time they need to perform certain tasks (like dragging and dropping icons from one folder to another, and no, I'm not just making that up). And the user I was thinking of as I typed the example above is probably not the most irritating user in the company. We have a couple of users who constantly break things, then whine to their managers and to mine (actually, to my boss's boss), but then are either unavailable or outright lie about having followed our suggestions to resolve the problem. After enough calls like that (from the same people), and it's really, really hard not to start hating at least some of your users.

      4) See #2.

      I'm not interested in modding you flamebait. You raise some valid points. However, I would encourage you to extend your empathy to the /.'er who posed the original question. Yes, it's obvious he's feeling some frustration. No, some of his options aren't realistic, but then again, this is /. It's fair enough to assume that the readers here will understand the difference between the things he has realistically tried and his venting. We all do it, including, I would wager, you.

      --
      MCSE? No, sir...I don't do Windows. Yes, I am an idealist. What's your point?
    150. Re:Electric Shock by Michael+Kristopeit · · Score: 1

      i'm sorry, did you say "about" or "to boot"?

    151. Re:Electric Shock by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The comparison to doctors is interesting otherwise as well since they seem to get frustrated the same way as many of us do when helping out clueless computer users. I remember reading an article with advice for making your doctor's job easier and learnt that engineers are the favourite patients for doctors. They come with a problem and describe it accurately and trust the doctor to be an expert that can fix it as long as the instructions are followed precisely (which engineers usually do). And whilst other doctors have the same way of thinking, they unavoidably also constitute annoying scrutiny.

    152. Re:Electric Shock by jabithew · · Score: 1

      Contrary to many IT departments' opinions, the myriad businesses and concerns in this world do not exist solely to support IT departments.

      --
      All intents and purposes. Not intensive purposes.
    153. Re:Electric Shock by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      Reverse of that once on a public holiday I set up an ADSL line for my sisters share house. The line didn't come up after I had configured the modem so I resolved to call the help desk on the next business day. So I call the help(less) desk from work and explain the situation so this guy and he says well I can see it working okay from my end. So I said well thats interesting because it wasn't working yesterday and nothing has changed since then. He said it must have just come good when you started your computer. I said: there is nobody in the house right now. I am calling from work. ISP guy said okay lets end the call now...

      The ISP had to configure something but they weren't going to admit to it.

    154. Re:Electric Shock by einhverfr · · Score: 1

      Part of the problem is that you aren't helping the customer out.

      A better way to handle it is "Please call back if this ever happens again, and make sure you have the error message in front of you."

      Mantra of the day: "If the customers were right, they wouldn't be calling tech support!"

      --

      LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
    155. Re:Electric Shock by DeadCatX2 · · Score: 1

      I remember reading about a car that had a robotic face which would look upset if you were speeding or forgot your seat belt. They hypothesized that empathy might make people more willing to buckle up than a flashing red light and an annoying beep.

      So I think your idea has quite a bit of merit, with puppies holding error messages with big cute eyes.

      --
      :(){ :|:& };:
    156. Re:Electric Shock by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "There are over 40 different types of epilepsy..."

      "1,000 deaths occur every year in the UK as a result of epilepsy"

      "The prevalence of active epilepsy is roughly in the range 5-10 per 1000 people. Up to 5% of people experience non (fever-induced) seizures at some point in life; epilepsy's lifetime prevalence is relatively high because most patients either stop having seizures or (less commonly) die of it."

      "in most cultures, persons with epilepsy have been stigmatized, shunned, or even imprisoned; in the Salpêtrière, the birthplace of modern neurology, Jean-Martin Charcot found people with epilepsy side-by-side with the mentally retarded, those with chronic syphilis, and the criminally insane. In Tanzania to this day, as with other parts of Africa, epilepsy is associated with possession by evil spirits, witchcraft, or poisoning and is believed by many to be contagious. In ancient Rome, epilepsy was seen as a curse from the gods.

      Stigma continues to this day, in both the public and private spheres, but polls suggest it is generally decreasing with time, at least in the developed world; Hippocrates remarked that epilepsy would cease to be considered divine the day it was understood."

      "Objects should never be placed in a person's mouth by anybody - including paramedics - during a seizure as this could result in serious injury to either party. Despite common folklore, it is not possible for a person to swallow their own tongue during a seizure. However, it is possible that the person will bite their own tongue, especially if an object is placed in the mouth."

      Suggest you do some reading on epilepsy and I think you'll understand why the gp didn't see the humor.

    157. Re:Electric Shock by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, it's OK if we make jokes about your Mom?

    158. Re:Electric Shock by sydb · · Score: 1

      But no wonder, most people only use photocopiers once every few weeks, if that. Yet their interfaces are quite arcane if you want to do anything beyond copying your documents at whatever their current settings are. Worst are the multifunction devices, people stand staring at them for a minute or two just working out what state they are in.

      At the office where I'm working there is a regular episode where a lady who knows how the fax machine works talks developers and other skilled techies through sending their timesheets to payroll. It's amusing as she has to go quite slowly for these people who work with and create quite sophisticated software systems!

      --
      Yours Sincerely, Michael.
    159. Re:Electric Shock by Ihmhi · · Score: 1

      When you try to quite Peggle, the Unicorn starts to tear up.

      When you try to quit Bookworm, the Bookworm tears up and says "Don't leave me!".

      PopCap are masters at holding emotional hostages. Write them up and see what they would do.

      I imagine your best option is a teary-eyed puppy in a wheelchair, dressed as little bo peep, and saying "Won't you pwease weed this message? *whimper*"

    160. Re:Electric Shock by Ihmhi · · Score: 1

      Interestingly enough, he uses the cake picture for whenever the antivirus suite finds...

      ...tracking cookies.

      Thank you, I'll be here all night!

    161. Re:Electric Shock by Ihmhi · · Score: 1

      That would work, but for 90% of these problems couldn't they invest in something like TeamViewer and just do it themselves?

      The only real problems then would be if the computer has to be physically shut off, and then they can send a guy down or do the over-the-phone spiel.

    162. Re:Electric Shock by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the respondent's point is that many error messages are nonsensical and thus hard to remember.

      You know, I heard that there's this remarkable invention, that when used with another, makes it simple to avoid this. The combination is called "Pen and paper". Now, I know that this is terribly archaic, but, if you can't remember the error, can't (or don't know how to) take a screen shot, and simply cannot resist dismissing the dialog box, at least try refraining long enough to write it down.

      Seriously - how difficult is that?

      What would also help is if the error was informative (and not written in binary)

      Help who? You? I doubt that - you apparently can't deduce that one way to solve your problem (or begin solving it) is to simply not dismiss the error message right away, record it by some means and pass it along to someone that can make better use of the information than you, even if that someone is Google.

    163. Re:Electric Shock by Ihmhi · · Score: 1

      Please tell me what company you do tech support for so I can buy a product from them, break it, and call you for tech support.

      ...

      (I think all of the years of doing over-the-phone tech support for other people has created some sick fetish in me...)

    164. Re:Electric Shock by Junior+J.+Junior+III · · Score: 1

      You really can't understand why she'd lie?

      Obviously she wanted a free upgrade to a monitor that supported 1600x1200.

      And she would have gotten away with it, too, if it wasn't for those lousy kids and that talking dog.

      --
      You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
    165. Re:Electric Shock by Junior+J.+Junior+III · · Score: 1

      "Ethernet cable" *is* jargon. "Network cable" is less so.

      "Network card" isn't really jargony, but most probably people don't know that the back of the computer has cards in it, and these days it's more than likely an onboard ethernet controller that's integrated into the motherboard, not an expansion card. So, ask "is the network cable plugged into the computer?"

      But chances are, they just don't feel like getting on their knees and going under the desk to get all dusty and poke around in the dark to look at the ass end of their computer, and would rather make you do it since, to them, that's your job.

      --
      You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
    166. Re:Electric Shock by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, but if you ask me what transfer mode my primary IDE channel is set to, that is jargon.

      Handy tip: if you find yourself using more than one word of three syllables or more in one sentence, you're talking jargon. Dumb it down.

      (And all TLAs are "long" words.)

    167. Re:Electric Shock by mattack2 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You'd think that a company that had people who "work with and create quit sophisticated software systems" wouldn't be using a fax machine to send timesheets to payroll.. Shouldn't it all be done electronically?

    168. Re:Electric Shock by gnud · · Score: 1

      (...) with puppies holding error messages with big cute eyes.

      Don't give the error messages too cute eyes, or no user will want to press Abort.

    169. Re:Electric Shock by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Medical terms and legal terms are also not jargon -- but I always appreciate it when someone will interpret one for me if I'm not understanding it for some reason.

      Of course, us technical types usually just look up what we don't understand -- but we wouldn't do that if we weren't technical types now, would we?

      Just ask them if they can tell you where both ends of their internet cable connect to, and (if they're in the right place) whether there's a blinking light next to that connection. People are results-oriented. Results-based feedback is important, or people will make up what they think you want to hear, to get closer to a result.

    170. Re:Electric Shock by cas2000 · · Score: 1

      While we all like to laugh at stupid user tricks, the real problem is a lack of communication.

      no. the real problem is that the user is stupid or ignorant or both.

      communication is the workaround solution, not the problem....the support person has to continually rephrase the same question in several different ways so that the user understands the question and answers honestly (while interpretation and understanding are often part of the problem, in many cases users understand exactly what you are asking and will flat out LIE - "no, i didn't do X", "yes, of course i did Y", "no, there's nothing on the screen", "no, i haven't installed or changed anything").

      ditto for explanations and instructions. keep rephrasing until the user understands and is able to follow the instructions.

      One thing I have learned is don't think the other person understood what you said - their frame of reference may be different and you need to consider that when communicating.

      yes. i agree with your conclusion if not with your premise (and remember: quite often their frame of reference is that of a stupid or ignorant person)

      a good tech support person will try to teach the user - even if you know it's futile, even if you know they'll forget it 5 seconds after the problem is solved because you've already taught the same person the exact same thing many times before.

    171. Re:Electric Shock by cgenman · · Score: 1

      The guy was capable of pulling out an old motherboard. I'll give him that. But calling him an "average user" might be giving him too much credit.

    172. Re:Electric Shock by budgenator · · Score: 1

      Doah, but with AOL stranger things have happend

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    173. Re:Electric Shock by Sir+Holo · · Score: 1

      concise

      NOUN.

      Brief but comprehensive.

    174. Re:Electric Shock by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because they don't understand.

    175. Re:Electric Shock by wealthychef · · Score: 1

      Well, I wouldn't say it's not good enough. More like it's not perfect, but it's way better than not having the logs at all.

      --
      Currently hooked on AMP
    176. Re:Electric Shock by BillX · · Score: 1

      My parents' first computer was a Macintosh SE. On it (System 6?), crashes were usually announced by a nondescript error message accompanied by a picture of a bomb with a lit fuse. When they saw this message (they referred to it as the 'time bomb'), they raced to switch off the machine, thinking the lit-bomb graphic was meant to imply that the problem could grow worse the longer the machine was left in this state.

      Moral: Don't make the error messages too intimidating. Especially go out of your way to avoid helping the user conclude that the error messages/condition is 'dangerous' (unless it really, really is) or that "making it go away ASAP" is their safest option.

      --
      Caveat Emptor is not a business model.
    177. Re:Electric Shock by sgt_doofey · · Score: 0

      Secret stash of alcohol somewhere perhaps?

    178. Re:Electric Shock by dcam · · Score: 1

      A variation on that for network cables is to tell them to switch the ends around. Make up some rubbish about polarity.

      --
      meh
    179. Re:Electric Shock by TangoMargarine · · Score: 1

      Guess what it hurts like hell to them there too. DUH, please get a basic education

      I have to admit that I never learned the pain of a cunt punch on a 1-to-10 scale, compared to a sack kick, in my days in school. I would think that most of the pain would stem from the sensitivity of the testicles, which females do not have.

      --
      Unity? Screw that: XFCE. Slashdot Beta? Screw that: SoylentNews. Australis? Screw that: Pale Moon. UX developers DIAF
    180. Re:Electric Shock by Meski · · Score: 1

      What does segmentation fault mean to a user? Even the modern day equivalent "access violation writing to 0x00000000" isn't too useful.

    181. Re:Electric Shock by hakr89 · · Score: 1

      I lied because I was tired of the DSL tech trying to get me to configure my SpeedStream 5100A as if it was a 5100B (the latter does routing and gives it an IP address with a web UI, the former is a dumb modem, so it's a big difference) and I just wanted some darned login credentials. Since you ask.

      But that's just me.

      I've had that happen before, the tier 1 tech was so clueless as to why it wasn't working that he told me that the modem was broken and that I needed a new one.

      I proceeded to tell him that he was an idiot and that he needed to transfer me to a tier 2 tech who might be able to actually help me.

    182. Re:Electric Shock by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thanks mod. You really are an asshole.

    183. Re:Electric Shock by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Calling Dr. House: all people are idiots and liers. /Captain Obvious

    184. Re:Electric Shock by zsau · · Score: 1

      "I think visually, I want to see what you can see, otherwise I will forget something important."

      --
      Look out!
    185. Re:Electric Shock by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      I would rather say something like "I just want to make sure that I can follow exactly what you are doing, and that nothing goes wrong. After all I can not see what is on your screen, I just know what should be there."

    186. Re:Electric Shock by contrapunctus · · Score: 1

      Or maybe a setting is so buried in some menu hierarchy, that it's easier to turn it off and on to reset it.

    187. Re:Electric Shock by flabordec · · Score: 1

      Or if you want to know if the DOS Prompt is on screen why not ask "Can you read C:\DOS on the screen?".

      --
      "I see undead people" Warcraft III - Necromancer
    188. Re:Electric Shock by Tacvek · · Score: 1

      Very nice. Of course I'm not so sure the Ethernet port description is very useful anymore, since many computers are now shipping without a modem port, so there is no "small one".

      Of course your Ethernet port description is of little use if you think the cord might be plugged in.

      In that case you need need to ask about either a cord that looks like an over-sized phone cord, or a hole that looks like it would fit an over-sized phone cord. Or something like that.

      --
      Stylish sheet to fix many problems in Slashdot's D3: https://gist.github.com/801524
    189. Re:Electric Shock by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 1

      While we all like to laugh at stupid user tricks, the real problem is a lack of communication.

      no. the real problem is that the user is stupid or ignorant or both.

      You've hit on an even more fundamental problem - if a support person has the attitude that the users are stupid or ignorant or both then they've already setup an adversarial relationship unnecessarily.

      Years ago when I ran a help desk if one of my staff displayed such an attitude I showed them the door. No matter how technically competent they were such an attitude caused more problems than it fixed; and I was lucky that the support we provided was pretty straight forward so I had no problem getting qualified staff with a more positive approach.

      My comments are not aimed at you - but a general viewpoint I have come to over the years.

      yes. i agree with your conclusion if not with your premise (and remember: quite often their frame of reference is that of a stupid or ignorant person) a good tech support person will try to teach the user - even if you know it's futile, even if you know they'll forget it 5 seconds after the problem is solved because you've already taught the same person the exact same thing many times before.

      I agree - in the end they are your customers and your success depends on satisfying them.

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
    190. Re:Electric Shock by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      At the office where I'm working there is a regular episode where a lady who knows how the fax machine works talks developers and other skilled techies through sending their timesheets to payroll.

      That blows my mind. what arcane company uses FAX for timesheets or payroll? Email them, or use the web time tracking app. I freaked out a client once by sending him a PDF of a work order signed by me instead of faxing.

      I got the following....

      Him: HOW DID YOU DO THAT??
      Me: What? I emailed you a PDF, nothing special.
      Him: No, you SIGNED IT, how did you do that?
      Me: multiple ways. I can use a tablet to sign it, print it out, sign it, scan it and send it on it's way.... I simply dragged my signature over the signature box, adobe acrobat will even do it for you with a single click (same as the pro version of foxit)

      He is still amazed. I'm amazed that I'm the only one that is sending him everything electronically.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    191. Re:Electric Shock by Procris · · Score: 1

      Wow, you're assuming a lot of knowledge there. I've worked in a college setting (as a librarian, not specifically IT, but damn did we end up doing a lot of IT diagnostics) -- and a phone cable? you think these kids have ever seen a phone cable? USB port they might get from the iPod example, but I've got a lot of little flat rectangles available on my computer. Video outputs and firewire ports are harder to describe, as they're used less often by these kids. That said, whoever really thought this generation was, as a unit, more computer savvy has never actually talked to the vast majority of college students these days. I'm stunned by how few are willing to actually explore their machines, and how many have down right phobias about them. Combine that with the PC-whack-a-mole phenomenon, and they're damn frustrating.

    192. Re:Electric Shock by jridley · · Score: 1

      Why do they lie!??!? ...And why can't they spell liar??!?

    193. Re:Electric Shock by tom17 · · Score: 1

      Ahh got it. I had assumed you meant the error was there but no desktop.
      Alles klar!

      Tom...

    194. Re:Electric Shock by cas2000 · · Score: 1

      acknowledging that users are (often) stupid or ignorant or both is not in itself a bad thing. it's just recognition of one of the unfortunate truths about people.

      it's how that knowledge affects how you deal with the client that's important.

      if it makes you dismissive or rude or patronising, or you just give up on them, then it's a bad thing (and it probably means that you're burnt out and bitter and should start looking for some other line of work that doesn't piss you off so much)

      if it gives you insight which helps you to communicate more effectively to solve their problem then it's an extremely good thing.

      it's no more an adversarial relationship than a teacher has towards their students. a good, knowledgeable teacher(*) has a far greater understanding of the subject being taught than their students. in a lot of cases, they're a lot smarter than their students too. a good teacher will be well aware of this difference in knowledge/experience/intelligence, but it's their job to find a way to communicate their knowledge and understanding to their pupils regardless.

      (*) yes, hard to find, i know. but some do exist.

  2. Make it turn the volume up by mikesd81 · · Score: 4, Funny

    and let out a big screech followed by the sound of glass breaking and it saying "Danger Will Robinson! Danger!"

    --
    That which does not kill me only postpones the inevitable.
    1. Re:Make it turn the volume up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or just show a pair of breasts

    2. Re:Make it turn the volume up by Phroggy · · Score: 1

      and let out a big screech followed by the sound of glass breaking and it saying "Danger Will Robinson! Danger!"

      This is almost exactly what several models of Macintosh computers do upon failing POST. You can trigger it manually by pressing the debug button at just the right time after turning on the power. The sound I'm referring to specifically is this one, played at maximum volume.

      credit

      --
      $x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
      $x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
    3. Re:Make it turn the volume up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, just show a porn picture. Most people won't remember E0x332423 error, but (most men anyway) will remember a pair of DD's getting mushroom stamped...

      You may need to come up with another alternative for women/gay men tho...

    4. Re:Make it turn the volume up by del_diablo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It does not work that way, NEVER! BECAUSE all damn apps are just random hex dumps of errors. When i started using Linux i was in for a major surprise: No annoying random popups, and all apps would actually GIVE me actual errors such as "can't find libPORN.h" or "Does not have acces", or similar. The point is that Windows users by default have seen to many popups, and too many of the errors where JUST a gigantic bunch of a hex dump without any real message. Now, instead of trying to get the people to read it, get a underlaying system to Email you the errors instead. Because you shall NEVER bother the end users unless its a good thing.

    5. Re:Make it turn the volume up by xtracto · · Score: 4, Interesting

      and let out a big screech followed by the sound of glass breaking and it saying "Danger Will Robinson! Danger!"

      You may be kidding, but back around 1990 or so, when MS-DOS was still the mainstream operating system (at least in Mexico), my father (a computer enthusiast himself, Prof. in Biology) used to battle with his students when using some program (Microstat, Statistica, QPro or the like) because students did not read the messages.
      When something that they did not expect happened (say, a message telling them that they should append an = sign to process the equation), they would just block. He was also bothered that students did not read the programs instructions (RTFM!).

      Partly kidding, my father told me I should do a program that dictates the instructions or messages aloud. Now, back at the time I thought it was a good idea, unfortunately I was only 9 years old and was doing my first C / Assembler /hex-edit tests.

      Nowadays, I think it would be a good idea that each time a "modal" message box is presented in a focused window, all the screen is opaqued (as with Windows UAC) and whatever is in the messagebox is read to the user.

      Another option would be to make them write the exact text that is presented in the error, as a sort of Captcha.

      --
      Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
    6. Re:Make it turn the volume up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A thunderous booming *BUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRRRP*!

      100% memorable. Downside would be users trying to force the error for shits and giggles.

    7. Re:Make it turn the volume up by Entropius · · Score: 3, Interesting

      This is one of the first things I noticed about Linux, too.

      On Windows, you either get some bullshit that doesn't mean anything ("Limited or no network connectivity", "Windows has encountered an error") or a hex dump. The first doesn't give any information, and the last doesn't give any useful information.

      On Linux, when something breaks, it fucking tells you what broke. Sometimes what broke is fairly technical, and I may not understand what exactly the message means ("wtf is /dev/wumpus?"), but if it's a complicated technical issue I'm going to have to google to figure it out anyway.

      Right now, my not-very-technically-sophisticated mother has an issue I'm trying to fix from 1500 miles away over the phone: "Windows can not boot due to a hard drive configuration error." WTF does that mean? Clearly it can read the boot sector.

    8. Re:Make it turn the volume up by BenoitRen · · Score: 1

      On the other hand, when something completes without problems, on GNU/Linux you often are given no messages stating as such.

    9. Re:Make it turn the volume up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can set up a mac to do this ( at least back with OS 9 ). Even better, before reading the message the computer would first say, 'It's not my fault.' Turns out this is really annoying.

    10. Re:Make it turn the volume up by alta · · Score: 1

      Sounds like stuff I do.

      Danger Will Robinson is one I use.
      As well as "Thar be dragons here"
      You screwed up, no it's fine, no, it really was you
      Something is FUBAR
      Database is AWOL
      I throw in an ID10T error
      And a PEBCAK

      There are more, just don't know off the top of my head.

      Some of those errors don't necessicarily mean much to them, but they enjoy hearing what they stand for.

      --
      Do not meddle in the affairs of sysadmins, for they are subtle, and quick to anger.
    11. Re:Make it turn the volume up by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      Another option would be to make them write the exact text that is presented in the error, as a sort of Captcha.

      I have some code that I include in the administrator/developer screens to clear the configuration of the apps I write. Of course, clearing the configuration data from an application will prevent it from working properly in the context that it was installed. While the UI to clear the configuration is only accessible to administrators and developers, that doesn't mean that the administrators won't run it anyway. (We have those kinds of administrators) So, when the code is executed, it prompts the user to type 'Break this application.'. If they don't type it, including the proper capitalization and punctuation, it won't run.

    12. Re:Make it turn the volume up by EmTeedee · · Score: 1

      On the other hand, when something completes without problems, on GNU/Linux you often are given no messages stating as such.

      Guess what they assume their programs do.
      They assume that they complete successfully.

      While on Windows, it seems to be a huge surprise to the program.
      "Uuuh, it worked. Hmm, doesn't happen often, better get someone's attention..."

    13. Re:Make it turn the volume up by BenoitRen · · Score: 1

      Yeah, yeah, Windows sucks, we get it. Can you provide an actual argument?

      I need to know that it completed successfully because it could just as well still be busy, hanging, or not done what I asked at all and just sitting there.

    14. Re:Make it turn the volume up by greed · · Score: 1

      Ugh. That reminds me of a disk formatter on QNX in the mid-80s. It asked 3 variations on "are you sure?", but worded so the answers were "y" (Yes, I'm sure), "n" (No, I don't want to abort) and "c" (Continue with the operation).

      Which was fine once or twice. But it was very slow to load (as it had to load from floppy: no formatter on the hard disk because you can't format the only hard disk you can have). And if you get in the "are you sure" zone and keep typing Y you have to start all over booting from the floppy.

      Had the drive not trashed itself once every 8 or 12 weeks I wouldn't have cared. Fortunately, it eventually filled up the bad block map and we could trash the whole system, as there was no budget for repairs.

    15. Re:Make it turn the volume up by cxx · · Score: 0

      Oh, but I see all sorts of potential abuse here. Why does every program think that they're the most important application running on your computer? Do I really want every notification message to require such specific acknowledgment?

      Imagine Clippy talking out loud. /me shudders

      Let's work on getting rid of modal message boxes completely instead: make them unnecessary when possible. Then we can talk about making sure the user reads the few truly important ones that are left.

    16. Re:Make it turn the volume up by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      You're comparing compile errors with runtime errors that users see? Seriously? Users don't compile, and those error messages are equally useless to users anyway.

      A windows error reporting dialog with the 'hex dump' is basically a dialog displaying the .core file that it wants to send off to MS. It is infact almost identical data, it contains exception codes, stack traces, memory dumps, register states ...

      A Linux crash is no different than a Windows crash.

      But really, you aren't comparing the same thing. You're thinking that because you see more debugging output from an App on Linux that Windows doesn't have it.

      Ever use WinDbg? Think of it as your connenction to stderr for Windows gui apps. Its not, but thats how most Windows developers dump debugging information that users don't ever really need, unlike say ... GTK, which is happy to spew information to stderr all day long.

      When you get a 'hex dump' its because the bug caused a condition that the developer never expected/tested for and the processor/OS said 'you can't continue'. If the developer expected the error, you'd likely get a popup dialog saying 'couldn't open file' or 'out of memory' as they would have probably handled it if they caught it, maybe still resulting in a crash, but probably resulting in a more useful error message.

      There are also FAR more Windows developers than Unix devs. Unix dev is harder to get started, which means you tend weed out no talent copy and pasters before they can get a make file to work. Anyone can write a Windows app in at least 3 different languages with free IDEs from MS alone for .NET. You can get pretty far into 'developing' an application without writing much code. Then the newbs start writing code, poorly, by copy and pasting crap they find on the web until something mostly works.

      But they don't realize that the result of one functions error is -1, and that return value is used to determine the number of objects to preallocate, which has just turned into roughly 4.2 billion objects. Then the allocation fails, but they continue to use the object, and a crash follows.

      Linux is in no way immune to it, its just less likely to happen since about the only IDE for Unix that comes close to the level of simplicity required for your 'typical' windows programmer is MonoDevelop, and while its simplistic for anyone with a clue, its got just enough odd quirks/bugs and differences from the MS .NET libraries that the copy/paste from someone elses web page method of developing starts to fall apart quickly. (Ask anyone who's ported a non-trival .NET app to mono)

      There is a quality of talent different between Linux and Windows. Linux developers are generally more talented and knowledgable, but arrogant assholes who don't give a shit about anything other than making the code work the way they want. Windows developers are generally less talented, lazier, unqualified suckers who got duped into going to college for a CS degree thinking it'd be easy and they'd make a fortune. Now they don't give a shit how they make the money to pay off their few hundred grand in school loans, they just want to pay them off, so if turning out quick/dirty/likely to crash code gets you paid today, you can worry about the bugs and phone calls tomorrow ... after you and your family eat.

      Neither OS has any particular feature of itself that causes this, the ecosystem of the OS and its contributors (both commercial interests and its community)

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    17. Re:Make it turn the volume up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      But suppose the user does something wrong...

      (* PUKE, SPLAT, SCREECH *)

    18. Re:Make it turn the volume up by jabithew · · Score: 1

      And the damn firewall! Every time something goes wrong with something internet related on Windows it blames a firewall that may not even exist! The number of times I've been helping my family and they say "the message says it's something to do with the firewall"...and it never is!

      --
      All intents and purposes. Not intensive purposes.
    19. Re:Make it turn the volume up by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      My favorite is something like Outlook is trying to retrieve mail from server XXX. Clearly the developers had absolutely no faith in the retrieval process working.

    20. Re:Make it turn the volume up by Ihmhi · · Score: 1

      I have yet to use Linux to any serious degree, but if Windows, say, bluescreens, you can usually translate the STOPx000008E or whatever error into some tangible problem.

      It would be nice if Windows gave you more info, though.

    21. Re:Make it turn the volume up by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1
      Too bad that hex dumps "can't" be translated into plain language. What's with that, anyhow? Seems like a person would have have a easier time telling tech support that their screen is saying (insert error sentence here) rather than a to them random series of letters and numbers, of which they'll probably make a mistake while reading.

      Also, why do so many of you tech support people hate the people who are the reason for you having a job? You need to get a job somewhere else.

      --
      Why is this even on SlashDot?... Why is this even on Slashdot?...Why is this even on Slashdot?
    22. Re:Make it turn the volume up by Leynos · · Score: 1

      It's done when it returns control to you. It did what you told it to do, and nothing unexpected happens, so it assumes you are stateful enough to need no reminder of what you told it to do. Unless you told it otherwise of course with the -v flag or an action to perform on success or failure.

      --
      "Did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage?"
    23. Re:Make it turn the volume up by LihTox · · Score: 1

      Even better, before reading the message the computer would first say, 'It's not my fault.'

      This is still an option in OSX. I remember "It's not my fault" from OS9, but I'm pretty sure it was customizable then (as it is now as well).

    24. Re:Make it turn the volume up by jimicus · · Score: 1

      It doesn't get much better when you're looking at software which was actually designed to be used by a technical person. It amazes me how few Windows developers appear to have heard of such concepts as log files - or for that matter the event log.

      I cannot express how frustrating it is to watch people who have spent their lives on Windows trying to solve problems by carrying out one random task, seeing if that helped, carrying out another random task, seeing if that helped, lather rinse and repeat.

    25. Re:Make it turn the volume up by DRACO- · · Score: 1

      It would also help if windows would bluescreen and not immediately reboot the machine. I keep my cellphone or my dslr (it's faster) around when dealing with blue screen errors because so often a machine will blue screen and throw up a stop code. You read stop and it goes away faster than you can read the rest of the screen.

      --
      Consider yourself blessed if you are sneezed on by a dragon and only get wet, it could have been a fireball.
  3. Automation by truthsearch · · Score: 5, Funny

    they memorize a series of buttons to press to get whatever result they want and if anything unexpected happens, they're completely lost.

    Sounds like their jobs are easily automated. Tell them if they don't pay closer attention to error messages you'll inform their boss how to replace them with another computer program. ;)

    1. Re:Automation by EvilNTUser · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I know users whose definition of unexpected is that they have to copy text from a program they've never used before. You couldn't handle that with a script, but how these people have a job not requiring a broom is an eternal mystery.

      I don't think UI designers should try to pander to them either, because it will make programs unbearable for everyone else.

      --
      My Sig: SEGV
    2. Re:Automation by TheLink · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      What if eventually any job you can do can be done better and more cheaply by an AI? What should happen to you then?

      I hope the AIs or "Posthumans" keep us around as well-cared-for pets because they are fond of us (or think we're cute). I doubt that enslaving and mistreating the first few AIs is going to help improve the odds of that scenario happening.

      Or setting a precedent that just because some people are stupid/ignorant it's OK to mistreat them (see the electroshock proponents above).

      I'm personally guilty of treating ignorant/stupid people badly every now and then. But I suggest that it's not something one should aspire to do, and it's something that you have to fight against.

      Many people think they're very intelligent. But high intelligence is overrated.

      --
    3. Re:Automation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah yeah, I played Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2 and heard all about the Quarians and the Geth too. Not that ME was the first iteration of the concept. Yay, look at me, I'm posting about it to Slashdot to rehash old sci-fi ideas. Woohoo.

      You remind me of people who type (not part of their sig) their username or their first name at the bottom of every post they write. As in, "why the hell does he bother doing that?"

    4. Re:Automation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You sir, are wrong. Stupid people will not get any better if they are not informed. Tell them at every chance you get to read a book or take the ham sandwich out of their mouth while they watch American Idol and replace it with motivation. If this is best done verbally, so be it. We must stop the seemingly never ending tide of stupidity or Idiocracy will be come the standard. Time to evolve past these people and leave them in the dust.

      The other option is to have a licensing/fine process for reproduction, which should help to cure the extra spending on public services..

    5. Re:Automation by truthsearch · · Score: 2, Insightful

      We could be their pets. We'd get to eat and sleep most of the day. Get a new toy every now and then. Walked daily, when we can bark at the other humans. Plus we could lick our own balls whenever we want.

      Sounds awesome.

    6. Re:Automation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's the big fuss about the sig? Are you one of those who keeps clicking on the sig link?

      The current story is about "getting people to read", assuming you can read well, you shouldn't be clicking on the sig link if you don't like it.

      Looks like you're not that smart yourself.

    7. Re:Automation by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 4, Funny
      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    8. Re:Automation by Apatharch · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What if eventually any job you can do can be done better and more cheaply by an AI? What should happen to you then?

      Then the job should be done by an AI, and you should train for a job that can't be so economically automated. It's not like this issue hasn't come up before with the advent of robotic assembly lines and, well, any kind of automation technology ever.

      Or setting a precedent that just because some people are stupid/ignorant it's OK to mistreat them (see the electroshock proponents above).

      We're not just talking about general ignorance/stupidity here; we're talking about someone's ability to do their job. If they lack that ability then they should be trained further or replaced. It's that simple.

    9. Re:Automation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't forget, there is a big difference between ignorant and stupid. The former is just not knowing something, the latter is not wanting to know.

      I'll let you guess which one is worse.

    10. Re:Automation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unless they spay or neuter you like Bob Barker says to

    11. Re:Automation by steveb3210 · · Score: 1

      Sounds like their jobs are easily automated. Tell them if they don't pay closer attention to error messages you'll inform their boss how to replace them with another computer program. ;)

      http://www.thinkgeek.com/tshirts-apparel/unisex/frustrations/374d/

    12. Re:Automation by TheLink · · Score: 1

      I really hope humans get that option. Most of the other possibilities are rather crap.

      The other not so crap option is of course most humans become the "posthumans".

      --
    13. Re:Automation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What if eventually any job you can do can be done better and more cheaply by an AI? What should happen to you then?

      Become Electrical/Computer Engineers.

    14. Re:Automation by TheLink · · Score: 1

      So if you lack that ability, you should be replaced by an AI. I've no problem with that.

      But what should happen to you after that?

      Should you still get provided for by some "socialist welfare" sort of system?

      Or should you be discarded like some part that can't meet the specs?

      --
    15. Re:Automation by hitmark · · Score: 1

      the only haves would be the "creatives", while the rest would either starve to death or survive on handouts depending on the political climate of the social group one happen to be "member" of.

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
    16. Re:Automation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Sounds like their jobs are easily automated."

      It could also be that only that part of their job may be easily automated. The other parts might not be.

      In which case yes it would make sense to replace that part with a computer program.

    17. Re:Automation by The+Mighty+Buzzard · · Score: 3, Funny

      Televised execution by means of midgets with machetes. Sorry, that was insensitive. Little people with machetes.

      --
      Violence is like duct tape. If it doesn't solve the problem, you didn't use enough.
    18. Re:Automation by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      Pff. Two lines of Perl should suffice. ;)

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    19. Re:Automation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why would AI discard us? Generally speaking the reason we humans do things is to fulfil Maslo's Hierarchy as best we can. Obviously, anyone designing AI could give them their own hierarchy or life-goals or whatever - and would in fact need to, otherwise they'd just sit there (a computer only does what you tell it, which is precisely why a computer does NOT have artificial intelligence). Now, assuming that person is moderately intelligent (reasonable to assume, they're cracking a huge enigma) and not malicious or downright evil, then they will endow the AI with human-friendly goals.

      Given this, I envision some kind of "socialist welfare" system. Perhaps you think socialism is unpleasant, but realise that machines could harvest resources much more efficiently that us - because

      • They are more likely to work together (they need not be naturally competitive like we are) for efficiency's sake
      • They have more scope for intense specialisation (they can alter their form to suit the task - eg, a combine harvester robot versus a man with a scythe)
      • Their goals and desires can be easily moulded to suit the task (they would be complicit slaves)

      Because of this, this "socialism" would not be the bleak soviet model, it would be a highly consumerist, hedonistic lifestyle. Not that we would have much of a choice - capitalism would demand its own downfall (employers would hire more efficient, cheaper AI to cut costs and increase the bottom line, and consumers would stop buying because they'd be unemployed) with the birth of AI. The practical upshot is that with all this free time, bored or paranoid geeks would spend our days making sure complicit, friendly robots do not change, by stemming any outbreak of unfriendly behaviour, and using human-controlled non-AI machines to compel them.

    20. Re:Automation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't forget, there is a big difference between ignorant and stupid. The former is just not knowing something, the latter is not wanting to know.

      You confuse stupidity with apathy. Stupidity is even more pessimistic: being unable to know, even if wanting to know.

    21. Re:Automation by sorak · · Score: 1

      they memorize a series of buttons to press to get whatever result they want and if anything unexpected happens, they're completely lost.

      Sounds like their jobs are easily automated. Tell them if they don't pay closer attention to error messages you'll inform their boss how to replace them with another computer program. ;)

      But he'll hire them back when the program gives him a weird error.

    22. Re:Automation by newdsfornerds · · Score: 1

      I've met professional people (two doctors and one lawyer) who believe that new software is often written by existing software programs. I guess they watch too much sci-fi. So yeah, your approach could work.

      --
      Damping absorbs vibrations. Dampening is caused by moisture.
    23. Re:Automation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Threat of starvation upon "unfit" and superfluous "subhumans" already had caused the fall of empires and disappearance of their civilizations. It's hunger, not envy nor greed, that creates barbarians! Conan, of course, is imaginary and unrealistic fiction. Anyone that well fed would enjoy such a good life of top bully in his own homeland. But I digress. The point is that "ubermensch" live at mercy of "untermensch" masses and should be very careful not to corner them into despair, even though bossing them is healthier then showing fear in front of them (as several monarchs of old could attest ... if they were alive).

    24. Re:Automation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My wife once had a boss who told her entire department in a fit of rage that they could all be replaced by "three lines of code."

      The funny part? It was the graphic design department.

    25. Re:Automation by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Using Perl is cheating. You can implement strong AI in two lines of Perl. Two lines of readable Perl, now that's a challenge...

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    26. Re:Automation by TheLink · · Score: 1

      > Why would AI discard us?

      There are lots of species that have gone extinct not because we actively destroyed them.

      Some happened to get in the way of the stuff we wanted, the others were just collateral damage or due to "oops" events (e.g. some other species tagged along and wiped out stuff).

      The AIs might fight with each other, and we get wiped out in the process.

      > making sure complicit, friendly robots do not change
      > by stemming any outbreak of unfriendly behaviour, and using human-controlled non-AI machines to compel them.

      That might be another reason why.

      It might be a while before we can get super-intelligent AIs that will also be happy with that arrangement.

      If we go straight to conscious super-intelligent AIs we might be creating ethical and other problems. Hence it's probably better to just stick with human augmentation. At least we can still stick to the same old ethical problems of humans mistreating each other :).

      --
    27. Re:Automation by LinuxAndLube · · Score: 1

      Taking into account the large proportion of posters putting the blame on the user and the fact that the /. mindset is much aligned with the Linux crowd mindset, I proudly declare 2010, 2011 and 2012 as Not the Year of Linux on the Desktop.

    28. Re:Automation by Dishevel · · Score: 1

      Run for office.

      --
      Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
    29. Re:Automation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because it's easier and less paperwork to either promote or transfer a person who's too crap at their job than to fire them, just to get them out of your hair. That's why there's so many idiots at the tops of the ladders, and the smart ones are stuck actually doing things properly at the bottoms.

      And before you said 'it shouldn't work that way, they should just be fired or demoted', remember that those in HR also got where they were by being crap at the jobs they were originally hired in. Why would anyone expect them to do good there?

    30. Re:Automation by bhtooefr · · Score: 1

      What about something like the GEOS approach?

      GEOS UIs are, as I understand, somewhat like HTML+CSS forms in function (that is, you define your window elements by function, and then the system places them according to window size, screen size, and such.)

      Here's the thing. You can also define your functions by how "complex" they are for a user, and then, each program can be run at different "levels" of complexity. So, newbies get a drastically stripped down UI, intermediate users get a lightly stripped down UI, experts get the full thing. Same program, and it takes just a couple clicks to change levels. Oh, and you can customize the available functions, too, if you're, say, a newbie, but need some function available in the expert level.

      Of course, because it's rendering the UI dynamically, it just doesn't render the elements that are from higher levels.

      Therefore, you can pander to the idiots of the world, while not negatively affecting those who have clue.

    31. Re:Automation by Vrtigo1 · · Score: 1

      Makes you wonder how they managed to survive 20 years ago when they'd actually be required to use (gasp) the command prompt to get their work done. My parents owned a small business and they had a few PCs located at "computer stations" around the office that the various staff would use. They had all the commands written down on little post-it notes stuck at the bottom of the monitor. Tech support back then cost something like $200/hr, so if they had a problem they got together and figured it out on their own. Fast forward to present day when everything on the screen is pretty and point/click easy and they give up at the first sign of trouble. We've made everything so easy for them, that they've forgotten how to think for themselves.

    32. Re:Automation by windex82 · · Score: 1

      When this type of discussion comes up I have this little analogy I like to use...

      Office Worker : Computer :: Carpenter : Hammer

      What would you do if you hired a carpenter that didn't know how to use their hammer? Or tried to use the hammer for everything? Or could use the hammer but despite seeing the claw end every time they used it were completely oblivious as to its use. I think the much larger problem is that people refuse to or have been so dumbed down that they cannot comprehend what they see, hear and read even if they take the time to actually see, hear or read something.

    33. Re:Automation by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      but how these people have a job not requiring a broom is an eternal mystery.

      I work in RTP, NC so we have a high number of geeks in the area, but I don't think I've seen a Janitor here that doesn't know how to use a computer.

      I regularly talk to the Janitor ladies at my current job about their computers, and learn things from them occasionally, although I admit naturally thats not the common case.

      I realize its not intentional, and the stereotype is probably accurate, but you really might want to consider not being such an ignorant fuck and thinking someone isn't knowledgeable just because they sweep the floors.

      I've been doing software development off and on for almost 20 years, and there have been multiple occasions during that time that I've flipped burgers, swept floors, and dumped out other developers trash cans at night.

      I know of a multi-millionaire in the town I group up in (20 years ago a million was still considerably impressive), who gave up pretty much everything except his house, started riding the bus around town and working as a janitor at the local hospitals. He didn't want to 'not work' but he also wanted to enjoy life and stop the rat race he'd been in all those years previously.

      My point to all this is ... your statement is just as prejudice and ignorant as saying (insert racial slur here), you might really want to consider keeping it to yourself, even if you don't realize how wrong it is or how ignorant it makes you look. Remember those people you call stupid are the ones who make it so your nice comfy office is clean and nice to use, treating them poorly or talking down to them because you have the retarded notion that you're better than them. You really need to learn to appreciate the effort they put in and knowledge they have about what they do. You really don't want all the people with brooms' to stand up and decide they've had enough of punks thinking they are better than them.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    34. Re:Automation by hab136 · · Score: 1

      punks thinking they are better than them.

      That was neither said nor implied. The grandparent was commenting on the intelligence required for a job, not the intelligence of the people actually doing it. Worth was not mentioned at all, until you brought it up.

      If Stephen Hawking and Albert Einstein worked at a taco stand together, that doesn't mean you have to be a genius to make tacos. Likewise, no matter how smart the janitors you've known are, nothing about pushing a broom or cleaning bathrooms requires great intelligence.

    35. Re:Automation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Based on the pablum Ubuntu is becoming it will never be a part of the desktop. I've stated a simple solution. Make it look, feel and work exactly like windows with enough documentation to gag a librarian. Make it run as many commercial windows programs as is possible with wine. Make as many of the core GPL programs UI function like it's commercial counter part. Pick names that don't make geek children snicker. Weed out insecure or offensive crap from the distributions repository. Yadda Yadda.

    36. Re:Automation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      *COUGH* Microsoft

  4. Firefox plugin install method by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Just put a timer on the buttons that won't let them click it for 10 seconds... but ultimately you can't fix stupid.

    1. Re:Firefox plugin install method by BarryJacobsen · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Just put a timer on the buttons that won't let them click it for 10 seconds... but ultimately you can't fix stupid.

      And employees will love you because now they have mandatory coffee break. Seriously, they won't read it, they'll do something else until they can just click the button.

    2. Re:Firefox plugin install method by captainpanic · · Score: 2, Insightful

      10 seconds is not enough to grab a coffee, but locking my pc for 10 seconds sure motivates me to get one.

    3. Re:Firefox plugin install method by xOneca · · Score: 1
      You can't do anything. Lusers won't read it.

      For a luser, a message is:

      An error, warning, information, confirmation, request. Irrelevant and ignorable until something goes wrong.

      And if something goes wrong, they will pay attention only if rand() == 0.476384.

    4. Re:Firefox plugin install method by maxwell+demon · · Score: 0

      Well, make it like a test. They have to check the correct option to proceed. Example:

      Error: The configuration file could not be found.
       
      To proceed, please check the radio button corresponding to the problem, and then press OK.
       
      ( ) The configuration file contained an erroneous entry.
      ( ) An attempt to find the configuration file failed.
      ( ) The configuration file was parsed correctly.
       
        [OK] [Cancel]

      The user has to select the correct option, or another dialog will pop up saying "You have not read the error message!" followed by a re-display of the original dialog with the options shuffled.

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    5. Re:Firefox plugin install method by Errol+backfiring · · Score: 1

      Doesn't help. I had a user who claimed that "the program hung". When I asked if he had got an error message, he said NO. The logs, however, showed that he clicked 12 error messages away in the past minute. So the user's reply to a wait timer is also "it's hanging, you fix!"

      --
      Nae king! Nae laird! Nae yurrupiean pressedent! We willna be fooled again!
    6. Re:Firefox plugin install method by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > but ultimately you can't fix stupid.

      Damned straight. If you make stupidity painless, all you do is encourage stupidity. Unfortunately in cases like this the poor helpdesk geek is the one experiencing most of the pain.

    7. Re:Firefox plugin install method by Mark4ST · · Score: 1

      Just put a timer on the buttons that won't let them click it for 10 seconds [like Firefox's plugin install method]

      That's kinda neat. I thought it was allowing time for Firefox to download the plugin or somesuch. Had me fooled, to their credit.

    8. Re:Firefox plugin install method by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This has worked for Firefox extensions. The problem is that until there is some API on the OS, and programmers feel the need to update their code, nothing will change. Anyway, I find that the submitter's questions is for a special case of an often reviewed issue. His special case is that he apparently has control over the full app.

      For the rest of the world, there is nothing we can really do, since you cannot control how Office or your OS shell shows messages, and your helpdesk will continue to get calls. Remember that error messages are unexpected, so the issue is you won't know when they pop up, and likely, the user will have no clue what app triggered it. I wish more apps would implement the dimming of the screen / modal dialog what keeps the user from hiding the error by mistake. Sortof like the Shutdown screen in windows. I'm sure an API for that would really be abused. There is a middle ground that the MacOS uses, where there is a sliding sheet animation with the dialog comming from the specific area that generated it... but it's an optional API.

      Now, to answer the poster's question... How do you get users to read error messages? Simple. Get some memorable icon, like a bomb, a rabid dog, show flashing red colors for its background, animate the bomb a little bit. Free antiviruses do it a little bit, and scare the shit out of users with loud sounds too. Pretty effective, though repeated offenses eventually get ignored even if the problem is legit. Brevity is important. Cryptic Messages and dialogs are sometimes memorable. Eudora mail used to have one that started with "Excuse me, " and something about failing to send the email due to server problems, if I remember correctly.

      However, this whole model I take from the book of spammer logic. They still DO get people to click on their remarkable windows, and continue to effectively sell v1agra and get people to read long enough to understand that 'the PC needs a repair; please click here for this free antivirus'.
      Rather than be too unique, take a page from the mac book and add a plainly visible error number, like MacOS system 7 used to. Every time there was a crash, a one line error came up, and a positive number or small negative number were at one corner. You can even use colors and text animations for the number or its background. You can color the whole window if you'd like. This is non-standard windows API stuff, but hell, this old problem won't be fixed if we don't get off our ass thinking outside the box. Chrome and Quicktime (Safari until version 4) and Windows Media Player, and Office 2007 already crap on the GUI windowing guidelines that Windows 2000-XP users expect, so it's nothing if we ignore built in API's and make an open source nagware dialog library to standardize this into new products.

    9. Re:Firefox plugin install method by zsau · · Score: 1

      I don't read those stupid things, I just look at the number counting down and press "OK". The Firefox method seems incredibly stupid to me.

      --
      Look out!
  5. careful by JayRott · · Score: 3, Funny

    I do like the ball-kicking error idea, but be careful which one you use. Windows can be testy and the last thing you need unprovoked genital damage when you are trying to fix a workstation.

    1. Re:careful by SailorSpork · · Score: 1

      Also, note that you'll need a different solution for the female workforce.

    2. Re:careful by d3ac0n · · Score: 1

      The "Titty-Twister" (tm) option perhaps?

      --
      Official Heretic from the "Church of Global Warming". Proven right thanks to whistle blowers. AGW = Flat Earth Theory
    3. Re:careful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's the cunt punt.

    4. Re:careful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cunt-punt error devices can utilise the same equipment.

    5. Re:careful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am somehow convinced that it's not all sunshine and roses to the female workforce if they get a sudden blunt force into their groin.

    6. Re:careful by dziban303 · · Score: 1

      I'm told a twatpunch hurts as much as a cockpunch does. I assume kicking would be similar.

  6. Waste of time. by Rogerborg · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Do yourself a favour and produce a one-click tool that collects all the info that you need (logfiles, version numbers, registry listings) and sends it to you. If you can make it 0-click, even better.

    --
    If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
    1. Re:Waste of time. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Yep. Lots of software packages now have automatic crash reporters. An on-demand error reporter should be even simpler to implement. If they got an actual error message from your program, there's no reason it shouldn't be written to the log as well.

    2. Re:Waste of time. by MontyApollo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The "one-click send me the info option" is definitely the best solution.

      What is annoying is that in many Windows programs (at least Office 97) you can't even copy and paste the error message text. Your only option is to do a screen capture of the window.

    3. Re:Waste of time. by oscartheduck · · Score: 5, Informative

      Try clicking on the dialog box, hitting ctrl-c, then opening notepad and hitting ctrl-v. It's non-intuitive that you don't have to highlight the text, but it normally works.

      --
      How to use coral cache: http://slashdot.org.nyud.net:8090/~oscartheduck
    4. Re:Waste of time. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow. Just wow.

      If only I had known this, oh, 10 years ago.

    5. Re:Waste of time. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The text of most standard Windows message dialogs can actually be copied to the clipboard by pressing Ctrl-C.

    6. Re:Waste of time. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Try clicking on the dialog box, hitting ctrl-c, then opening notepad and hitting ctrl-v. It's non-intuitive that you don't have to highlight the text, but it normally works.

      Clearly that's because Windows is not yet ready for the desktop.

      Or at least that's what they say when Linux has weird/quirky/non-intuitive behavior like this. I'm just askin' for a little consistency.

    7. Re:Waste of time. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ctrl-a, ctrl-c, ctrl-v

    8. Re:Waste of time. by Bigbutt · · Score: 2, Informative

      Well, Ctrl+A, Ctrl+C, notepad, Ctrl+V

      You can also hit PrtSc if they can't figure out how to hit Ctrl and the letter A at the same time. Then open Outlook, Paste it in, and mail it off.

      [John]

      --
      Shit better not happen!
    9. Re:Waste of time. by tomhudson · · Score: 1
      0

      Try clicking on the dialog box, hitting ctrl-c, then opening notepad and hitting ctrl-v. It's non-intuitive that you don't have to highlight the text, but it normally works.

      You're talking about people who just blindly click on buttons to make error dialogs go away. Someone in the middle of trying to do something doesn't want their computer to get in the way to begin with, which is why they just click to get rid of the message - it works some of the time, or at least SEEMS to, and that's all that counts to them.

      The LAST thing that user is going to remember after your program swallowed 4 hours of work is the text in an error box - they're too much in a panic trying to keep the computer from eating their work.

      This is why a modal box for error messages is a design mistake.

      ... and so is creating another instance of the box for every error - nothing says "amateur programmer" more than 50 error boxes one after another. Better to just append a new line of text explaining the error to a ring buffer of, say 100 entries, and when an error occurs, show the contents of the buffer, without disabling access to the underlying program. At least this way they can sometimes salvage something, and if not, they can still read the error messages.

    10. Re:Waste of time. by faber0 · · Score: 1

      Thats the exact timeframe. The feature was introduced in Windows 2000.

    11. Re:Waste of time. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I once had a logging tool set up to produce a unique code for each individual error message, the code would be logged along with the error text.

      My thinking was.. they give me the code and I can look up the error. Of course, no one bothered to do that.

      So, I tried the automated "send error" function.

      They didn't use it.. they'd rather phone you to let you know there was an error.

      I like the puppy idea, if it's a web app, you could probably add a img src="puppy.png?CODE=LC103413" so that the error code shows up in the web server log. (which you could use to trace it to the applications logging)

      You'll probably need their IP, just change the icon every hour, puppy.png means error happened at 09:00:00 ... cricket 10:00:00 .. and so on, then all you'll need from them is the picture and the day it happened.

    12. Re:Waste of time. by motorhead · · Score: 0

      Wipe the drive - that'll fix 'em!

      --
      Employee Of the Month - Cyberdyne Systems Corporation - September 1997
    13. Re:Waste of time. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sir,
      Congratulations. You Get It like no other slashbot. You can't possibly be a sysad with that sort of attitude.

    14. Re:Waste of time. by mordejai · · Score: 1

      I couldn't agree more. And yes, 0-click is the only way to make sure you get the information.

      When I worked for Verizon, I implemented and maintained a critical provisioning web application.
      Whenever an error occurred, it sent an email containing the full stack trace, the server answering the request, the exact input leading to the error, the application user, etc.
      So, if we got an email from a user saying "the app is broken, boo!", we had all the information we needed to reproduce and fix the problem.

    15. Re:Waste of time. by ottothecow · · Score: 1
      Yeah, I worked somewhere that had some software installed on every machine to catch the printscreen key and let you easily save the whole image or take a chunk of it.

      I would imagine it mostly existed for these reasons.

      --
      Bottles.
    16. Re:Waste of time. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now that modal boxes are "as standard", how could we change back? People are now "trained" to ignore these super-intrusive modal boxes that literally stop them from proceeding until they get at least some attention, and the damn article is about how they still don't pay attention to them. If someone called up tech support with your ring buffer idea, they wouldn't know where to look! Having worked in tech support, I can tell you that even explaining how to get to the ring buffer/log could easily take 10 minute with problem users (given all the variation between screen resolution/geometry, window geometry, text size, etc). By that time, they're fuming and demanding to know why there isn't a modal box like with every other program. And that's assuming that we're not in a situation where they've run into a problem, and exacerbated it to beyond FUBAR, and THEN decided to call tech support (at which point the log is filled with hundreds of error messages and you're stuck trying to work out which are normal and which are from the user screwing around, because I guarantee there'll be both and the user won't know the difference).

      Don't get me wrong, I think the ring buffer idea is a good one, especially if you're talking about the kind of thing you see on video encoding programs (AutoGK, handbrake). But the problem is the programmer doesn't know when their error is important (or is too arrogant to accept that some of their errors AREN'T important) so assumes they all are, and the end user will always be trying to do their thing (even past the point of their actions being self-defeating) - so it becomes an escalating arms-race of annoying grabs for attention.

    17. Re:Waste of time. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good program for screen captures and annotating them with text, arrows, highlight boxes, etc.: Snagit by Techsmith.

    18. Re:Waste of time. by Savage-Rabbit · · Score: 1

      What is annoying is that in many Windows programs (at least Office 97) you can't even copy and paste the error message text. Your only option is to do a screen capture of the window.

      What I love the most about Windows, and especially Windows Server, is the error messages that sometimes just tell you something like "Windows encountered an error while executing your task". You get no error code, there is nothing in the logs and you are left sitting there wondering which of dozens if not hundreds of things that could have gone wrong while, say... trying to activate remote administration for an IIS server, did go wrong. The least you can do, as a developer, is print what diagnostic info you can get along your exception when it ends up in your catch-all clause into the system log to give the user at least a clue of what went wrong.

      --
      Only to idiots, are orders laws.
      -- Henning von Tresckow
    19. Re:Waste of time. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Try clicking on the dialog box, hitting ctrl-c, then opening notepad and hitting ctrl-v. It's non-intuitive that you don't have to highlight the text, but it normally works.

      Alt-Printscreen, then paste in paint/word doc. That's the windows screen capture command for the active window.

    20. Re:Waste of time. by anegg · · Score: 1

      Cisco IOS: "show tech-support"

    21. Re:Waste of time. by gr8dude · · Score: 1

      It works with any dialog that was rendered via a MessageBox API call.

    22. Re:Waste of time. by TheThiefMaster · · Score: 1

      For windows standard modal dialogs, you don't have to (can't in fact) highlight the text, so no ctrl+A.

    23. Re:Waste of time. by bhtooefr · · Score: 1

      Make it more modal, not less modal.

      That is, don't allow the user to close it.

      Require the user to contact tech support and have them remotely access the machine to close it. If the machine has no active network connection, or remote access would cause a security problem, then do it Windows activation style: they read off a code containing the error, or type it into their phone, tech support gives them a code and then walks them through the problem.

    24. Re:Waste of time. by billcopc · · Score: 1

      A modal box is the only sane compromise. If you don't stick it right in their face, users will happily ignore everything you throw at them. It doesn't matter that your errors cover the bottom half of the screen in red 24pt Comic Sans, they will ignore it, and when they stop ignoring it they will complain to you that the errors take up too much of the screen.

      For a technical user (coder, sysadmin), error logs are fine. For a non-technical computer operators, the more obnoxious the error dialog, the better. Make it modal but user-friendly, e.g. don't post a big stack trace or register dump - that is noise to everyone but you, they will ignore it and continue breaking your app. Instead, log those nasty details to a file (or email), and present a friendly error message such as "There was an error, was NOT done. If this persists please call Joe at 212-555-1212 and tell them [error-type & log-ID]". Then you read your logs, find out what the user was trying to do and either educate them or fix your app.

      If you want to make it even nicer, add some smarts in your app to detect when a user's been repeatedly getting the same error (or doing it wrong), and throw a different popup "Please stop doing that and call I.T. so we can help you". It may seem rude, but we're supposed to be solution providers. A user having trouble with app, that's also a problem in need of a solution, something the app cannot provide on its own. I've had countless situations where someone had given up on an app, because they felt ignorant for not knowing how to work it, and didn't want to "bother" me with their "stupid questions". Things would linger on for weeks, that would have taken a 2 minute conversation to fix in the first place... but now there's 20 hours of cleanup work involved because someone didn't speak up. As UI designers and developers, I think it is our duty to make users less afraid of technology, and to open that conversation channel between users and developers. I'm not saying every coder should have to deal with the crazies in HR, but at least acknowledge that cooperation is required for problem resolution.

      --
      -Billco, Fnarg.com
    25. Re:Waste of time. by metamatic · · Score: 1

      What is annoying is that in many Windows programs (at least Office 97) you can't even copy and paste the error message text. Your only option is to do a screen capture of the window.

      What's annoying is that when I have my web application produce an error backtrace that can easily be copied and pasted, people send me a 500K screen cap of their browser window... which doesn't show the entire backtrace, obviously.

      --
      GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
    26. Re:Waste of time. by Bigbutt · · Score: 1

      Huh. I'll have to try that next time one pops up. Should be any minute due to the faulty Diamond ATI card I have :(

      [John]

      --
      Shit better not happen!
    27. Re:Waste of time. by BillX · · Score: 1

      Sometimes.

      It also assumes the user started using Windows after the point where this began to work (after the 100th failed attempt in Win95/98/NT, who keeps trying that?), and that the user thinks to try copying text from a non-textbox, and that the messagebox isn't being rendered by something other than WinAPI2k+ (non-WinAPI GUI toolkits, Borland VCL, qt?, gtk?, java?....)

      --
      Caveat Emptor is not a business model.
    28. Re:Waste of time. by oscartheduck · · Score: 1

      No, I am not. I was replying to the parent message ;) This is a pretty nasty little system, and I think you're dead right that modal boxes for errors is design error.

      --
      How to use coral cache: http://slashdot.org.nyud.net:8090/~oscartheduck
    29. Re:Waste of time. by tomhudson · · Score: 1
      Ever see those stupid web sites that do that? They put a layer over everything, darken the background, and force you to click through to get rid of their shitty stuff? Now, do you remember what the ad said? Of course not. All you remember is you were pissed off that it got in the way of what you were trying to do.

      Modeless+KeepAboveOthers, put it in "Help->Recent Errors", and the problem is solved. They can move it out of the way or hide it, and re-show it as necessary.

    30. Re:Waste of time. by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      A modal box is the only sane compromise. If you don't stick it right in their face, users will happily ignore everything you throw at them. It doesn't matter that your errors cover the bottom half of the screen in red 24pt Comic Sans, they will ignore it, and when they stop ignoring it they will complain to you that the errors take up too much of the screen.

      Okay - we have web popup blockers - now I'm going to start selling application and system popup blockers. My idea. You heard it here first folks. History is being made even as we type.

      Seriously - if it comes to that, I WILL make a system popup blocker. And a virus to spread it to every computer on the planet. And people will line up to thank me.

    31. Re:Waste of time. by bhtooefr · · Score: 1

      No, that allows clicking through.

      What I'm saying is to make SOMEONE ELSE interpret the error and dismiss it.

      Obviously, this would only work in corporate environments.

    32. Re:Waste of time. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yep, and it plays ding.wav which in normal circumstances means "you can't press that key here, dummy".

      Thanks, whoever decided on using that!

  7. Pop up the error message in a box... by John+Hasler · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ...with no "Dismiss" button. The message would stay on the screen until the user talks to you and you tell them how to get rid of it.

    --
    Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    1. Re:Pop up the error message in a box... by EdZ · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Or, have a psuedorandomly changing key-combination required to close the message. To find the key combination, they must read the message. Position of the key combination in the message also changes, so they can't just learn to look in a certain location each time.

    2. Re:Pop up the error message in a box... by polar+red · · Score: 1

      from summary:

      Instead, they memorize a series of buttons to press to

      and from your:

      To find the key combination, they must read the message.

      I would combine those 2 : On your regular screens: change the order of the buttons/text on the buttons, so they HAVE to read them.

      --
      Yes, I'm left. You have a problem with that?
    3. Re:Pop up the error message in a box... by Spad · · Score: 1

      That tends to only work once (depending on the IQ of your users).

    4. Re:Pop up the error message in a box... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      Unless you can convince intel to change the ATX spec, or the IEC to produce a new flavor of locking IEC plug, there will always be (at least) two "dismiss" buttons.

      The one that you used to turn the computer on(just hold for 12 seconds), and the long flexible one running between the computer and the wall.

    5. Re:Pop up the error message in a box... by The+MAZZTer · · Score: 1

      User complaints would force you to remove this pretty quickly, I'd think. Nice idea though.

    6. Re:Pop up the error message in a box... by BarryJacobsen · · Score: 1

      User complaints would force you to remove this pretty quickly, I'd think. Nice idea though.

      If your program is crashing/erroring that frequently then you have bigger problems then employees not reading the errors. Assumming the errors are infrequent enough, I think requiring the user to call you on all errors would be a good idea for effectively getting the error messages and finding out exactly what the user was doing.

    7. Re:Pop up the error message in a box... by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 1

      That will work the first time - and usually for only one user. They have a nasty tendency to talk amongst themselves. What usually happens is someone's walking by a desk, and sees un-clearable error ID10T displayed. The pop their head into the cube and say, "Oh, don't worry about that, I get it all the time. The helpdesk guy told me how to clear it - here, look..."

    8. Re:Pop up the error message in a box... by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 1

      +1 Insightful. All this "no close" message box will achieve is the tech team having to re-image more workstations than ever as the file system is completely fubar from being hard reset six times a day.

      After your boss receives the 600th email stating that there is a PRIORITY ONE CALL IMMEDIATE FIX AFFECTING MY WORK "This message won't disappear. It said there was an error" message, you will be lynched.

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    9. Re:Pop up the error message in a box... by bsDaemon · · Score: 2, Funny

      Yeah, but the correct one will probably be in 5th place about 50% of the time, so what's the point?

    10. Re:Pop up the error message in a box... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It doesn't even have to randomly change, as long as it's per-error. I remember reading about a hospital computer system that had to deal with people entering data in the wrong patient's records. On the one hand, you don't want to delete anything, but on the other hand, it's a patient privacy problem to have patient A's information in patient B's records. After some discussion, a "hard delete" feature was implemented, but IT got deluged with help requests to recover accidentally deleted data.

      Several rounds of making the confirmation dialog more visible didn't help. Changing it so you had to type in "irreversible" cut the problem to zero.

    11. Re:Pop up the error message in a box... by Kiaser+Zohsay · · Score: 2, Informative

      CAPTCHA!!!

      My users already hate the CAPTCHA text they have to enter to reset their forum password. CAPTCHA on an error message would bring out the torches and pitchforks.

      Several Firefox dialogs have a countdown timer, so the message has to stay visible for a certain amount of time before you can clear it. That seems a bit less intrusive. And there is always Windows XP's system-modal shutdown prompt, where the rest of the screen slowly goes monochrome if you wait long enough.

      --
      I am not your blowing wind, I am the lightning.
    12. Re:Pop up the error message in a box... by xOneca · · Score: 1

      Show the message, and then make a question about the error. If it's answered correctly they have read the error.

    13. Re:Pop up the error message in a box... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or until they hit control-alt-delete and shut down the box, or unplug it.

      (Risks digest a couple years ago. A bank was having corruption issues on workstations for the tellers because that was how they handled having to report the exact bills they gave out).

    14. Re:Pop up the error message in a box... by b4dc0d3r · · Score: 1

      Early shareware versions of Winzip had this - the "Please register" window comes up, and the placement of the Cancel and OK buttons would switch. Maybe it was Agree or No thanks or whatever it was, but two buttons that randomly changed places.

      Once registered of course you don't see that dialog. But it did force me to think a little more. I clicked the same button I'm used to clicking, and it exits. WTF? Let's try that again. I clicked the correct button right? Wait, it moved on me.

      The average user, however, will think it crashed. When it comes up again with the buttons in the order they are used to, they click the same area, and when it works they think they did something different and it didn't "crash".

      Random button order is a terrible idea for the same reason a system modal dialog box saying In order to finish updates your computer must be restarted, Restart now?" with the 'Yes' or 'Restart' button being the default button and thus responding to a spacebar. People will click what they are used to clicking, regardless of what it says, just like people will keep typing, input goes to the dialog, and the computer restarts. Why? I was just typing and it restarted all by itself.

    15. Re:Pop up the error message in a box... by harl · · Score: 1

      You are underestimating the ability of fools. This is often fatal.

      They will learn to quickly identify the keys to make the error go away without actually reading the error.

      --
      I find being offended by me offensive.
    16. Re:Pop up the error message in a box... by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      Very true, make it come back every 30 seconds until the clear code given by the tech support is entered into the dialog box.

      Granted the fact that the code is 4534 will spread about the office fast, so write the app so that it looks for the code on the server and uses a new one every day.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    17. Re:Pop up the error message in a box... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Great idea, let's take it one step further:
      Every once in a while, let your error message be replaced with a "shutdown now".
      Anyone hitting "ok" will rue the day, and learn their lesson quickly...

      (the lesson being: replace the coder)

    18. Re:Pop up the error message in a box... by An+ominous+Cow+art · · Score: 1

      When an error occurs in our application, an error screen full of useful debugging information pops up. The user can't get past it without entering a 'daily code' (basically a hash involving the customer ID number and today's date). They have to call our customer support to get that information.

      They can get past it by killing the application, or rebooting, but they will be unable to log back into our software until the user's account is unflagged as 'logged in', which also requires a call to support and entry of this daily code.

      We do this because certain kinds of errors require data files to be cleaned up, and that's not something we can always do in an automated fashion.

    19. Re:Pop up the error message in a box... by aarner · · Score: 1

      One of my last jobs involved a web app for local governments with a third-party GIS and mapping component that unfortunately required a pop-up window. After every election cycle in the state, we'd take a flood of support calls from new clerks, public works directors, mayors, etc, and 90-ish percent of those calls were "The maps aren't working" - with typical misplaced hostility towards the poor sap taking the call.

      So, we put a message on the main entry/splash screen that did some detection to see if you were using a pop-up blocker. Basically a quick: 'var newWindow=window.open(someTinyOffScreenWindow); if var==null show warningMessage; The message indicated that the maps and other stuff wouldn't work if you didn't create an exception for our site for your pop-up blocker, and a list of some common ones (yahoo, google, mozilla, etc)

      The results: None, it had no measurable impact on support calls. So, we made the message huge, put it in red text, and prefaced it with OMG!! WARNING!!! LAND SHARKS!!! etc... We even changed the OMG part to an animated .gif that simulated the dreaded blinking text. Still no impact. Like a blind spot. No one saw it.

      Finally, we displayed the message, and disabled/hid all the buttons and links on the app. Basically, we denied them access to any part of the app until they fixed it. Maximized the window so you could see or do nothing except read and acknowledge the error.

      The result of this extreme action: Support calls for pop-up blocker issues plummet. Usage of the app actually goes UP! Turns out there was a large percentage of users that didn't read the error and just gave up in frustration when the thing didn't work. Once they were blocked from doing anything until they fixed the root issue, the overall usage of the app goes up.

      I learned some valuable lessons from this. One - From a UI standpoint, there is nothing you can do to make a message more noticeable. Visibility/boldness isn't the problem. Think of users like a selenium script program to press a particular button on a page. So long as the button is there, the script/user keeps doing what they're 'programmed' to do. Two: If you need the user to take a certain action, including reading a message, you have to paint them into a corner where that's all the system allows them to do.

    20. Re:Pop up the error message in a box... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Winzip registration nagware we all know and love had a Yes / No / Register option. The three buttons would change order.
      Also, they had a timer of sorts. All input would cease while the program counted up to the # of zip files you had expanded with it.

    21. Re:Pop up the error message in a box... by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      You don't work in tech support anywhere with a lot of support calls, obviously.

      It is a lot of times better to let them not call you for a while than to call you directly right off the bat for every problem. Users DO solve SOME of their problems on their own via their neighbors which have done it before. Yes their neighbor can tell them how to get around the error like you told the neighbor, but now you've pissed them off and they're going to call you irate, not good.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    22. Re:Pop up the error message in a box... by pikester · · Score: 1

      This is an idea that Jef Raskin proposed in The Humane Interface. Not necessarily changing the key combination to hit, but forcing the user to type something that is in the dialog box. You may not want this type of dialog box for all dialog boxes, but it would certainly be useful for dialog boxes containing critical information.

  8. Make the error memorable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    As said, users learn what to do to get past the error, without remembering the actual error. Make what they have to do depend on the error, for example, make them type the error number. Or better, make them write error number down, and then type it middle digit, next right, second left, third right, etc.

    Newall

    1. Re:Make the error memorable by Daniel_Staal · · Score: 5, Insightful

      As a corrallary: Reduce the number of errors/confirmation dialogs they see on a regular basis. If they regularly have to click-past dialogs, they get trained to do that without reading them. If the presence of a dialog means 'call helpdesk, and read the dialog to them', they are more likely to pay attention to it.

      Make seeing a dialog an exceptional case, not a normal case.

      --
      'Sensible' is a curse word.
    2. Re:Make the error memorable by davecb · · Score: 1

      You can always make them think hard about it: Multics once had the message HODIE NATUS EST RADICI FRATER, which diagnosed and impossible file system with two roots. The recipients had to find someone who'd gone to catholic school to figure it out. As it happens, the hardware was broken and there was a good reason not to continue...

      --dave

      --
      davecb@spamcop.net
  9. Avoid what Firefox says by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    ...when it can't restore the tabs from the previous browser session.

    "Well, this is embarrassing!" or something OMG-idiotic like that. Just give us our home page and shut up.

    1. Re:Avoid what Firefox says by Jonnty · · Score: 1

      It can recover them, it just doesn't want to because there could be some horrendous Java applet or plugin or something that's instantly crashing it, so it gives you the option to not recover that one. Firefox seems to be going downhill, but I like that feature, it's pretty nifty.

      --
      Any grammatical or spelling errors above are for comic effect, and do not signify imperfection in the writer.
  10. Popups!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Lots and lots of popups! They're great as they get in the user's face and FORCE them to see what you want to see. So I recommend POPUPS!! Oh and confirmation messages when they try to close the popups that say something like "Did you read the previous error message?"

  11. Humor also helps by Robyrt · · Score: 1

    I remember EditPad's "Text encoding mismatch" error message, although it's a paragraph of obtuse text relating to something no normal user ever checks. Why? Because instead of saying "OK" at the bottom, the button said "Bummer."

    1. Re:Humor also helps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Careful. The word "bummer" means different things in different places. Don't insult your users.

    2. Re:Humor also helps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While jargon-heavy (and thus probably inappropriate for most users, though most users probably ought not mess with this sort of thing anyway), this error dialog used humor well.

  12. Better picture idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Guarantee they'll learn quickly to avoid the goatsea error.

  13. Full screen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    with super big text, and a timer to keep it on the screen for a certain amount of time. I don't think they'd miss that.

    1. Re:Full screen by sleekware · · Score: 1

      Don't forget to use brilliant colors that are harsh on the eyes!

    2. Re:Full screen by cc1984_ · · Score: 5, Funny

      Don't forget to use brilliant colors that are harsh on the eyes!

      Yes, let's make it blue just to make it stand out more.

      And to ice the cake, maybe we should have it so the only way to get rid of the message is a reboot.

      I think I may be on to something here.

    3. Re:Full screen by Snarf+You · · Score: 1

      Make sure to use an 80x50 text screen mode (with a monospaced font), a background color of #000080, and a foreground color of #FFFFFF.

    4. Re:Full screen by jank1887 · · Score: 1

      and Blinky text! We all miss the blinky text!

    5. Re:Full screen by motorhead · · Score: 1

      The Windows 3.1 "Hot Dog" color scheme

      --
      Employee Of the Month - Cyberdyne Systems Corporation - September 1997
    6. Re:Full screen by sleekware · · Score: 1

      I've forgotten this existed!

    7. Re:Full screen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is a excellent idea

    8. Re:Full screen by goofyspouse · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure that qualifies as cruel AND unusual punishment.

  14. Make others remember by cerberusss · · Score: 5, Funny

    I've even wondered if it would be possible to expand that to cover the other senses, for example, playing a unique sound with the error

    You're going about this the wrong way. You don't make the user remember, you make their colleagues remember. Supply your users with a 5.1 sound system attached to their PC and when the user encounters an error, the speakers blast "HEY EVERYBODY, I'M WATCHING PORNO OVER HERE".

    As I said, make it a memorable experience.

    --
    8 of 13 people found this answer helpful. Did you?
    1. Re:Make others remember by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      "Was it a burp noise or a farting noise? Oh, a vomiting noise...that means there's no paper left."

      Might work.

      --
      No sig today...
    2. Re:Make others remember by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In college... I remember having a fake browser icon that randomly took over the computer and displayed a fake desktop with porn in a browser window with LOUD sounds (which nobody noticed the 1st browsers couldn't play sounds on a webpage like that.)

      I stuck it in the computer lab. It was a riot! It was all I could do to not bust out laughing.

      Some people knew how to reboot; others tried to cover the speakers and turn off the monitor... Some would loudly defend themselves to others saying it wasn't me! I didn't do it! It must be that guy! he was on here last!
      Often the IT kid would go over (often asked by the victim) and by that time the app stopped and everything was back to normal. They'd open the app to repeat it-- and it never did it for them it just opened netscape. Took a while until they figured it out. The trick was having it be 1/20 or so.

    3. Re:Make others remember by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      The proper phrase was 'HEY EVERYBODY, I'm LOOKING AT GAY PORNO'

      And yes, its happened to me in a meeting on the laptop.

      Fortunately, it was after clicking on a link sent to me by the boss asking for a way to block that particular URL at the proxies.

      Interestingly enough, I could still feel my face turning red when it came out of the speakers even though everyone there knew what was going on.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    4. Re:Make others remember by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hm, naaah, it'd lose its impact when eight or nine sets of speakers are blasting it at once as errors pop up. Not to mention that the people who actually ARE watching pr0n would just get lost in the shuffle.

  15. I call it wack-a-mole by suso · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I've often described the action of quickly clicking on ok on whatever window pops up as the wack-a-mole behavior. With Windows, I can't say I blame users for this behavior because the popups that come up are so frequent and so useless that they've kinda been trained to do this. Linux errors are usually more useful, descriptive and since the order of the buttons change from window to window, you have to be more careful. ;-)

    1. Re:I call it wack-a-mole by Spad · · Score: 1

      Linux errors are usually more useful, descriptive...

      Let's be honest, to 90% of users they're still meaningless, annoying & immediately dismissed.

    2. Re:I call it wack-a-mole by SirTicksAlot · · Score: 1

      Sometimes Linux errors aren't that useful. Granted they are more useful than most Windows errors.

      I've started collecting some of the less "useful" ones just for fun. http://www.solar1.net/index.php?pid=5

    3. Re:I call it wack-a-mole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You should ask my wife...

    4. Re:I call it wack-a-mole by neurovish · · Score: 1

      Sometimes Linux errors aren't that useful. Granted they are more useful than most Windows errors.

      Your printer is on fire.

    5. Re:I call it wack-a-mole by dargaud · · Score: 1

      Linux errors are usually more useful, descriptive and since the order of the buttons change from window to window, you have to be more careful. ;-)

      Yup, I've several times toyed with the idea of using random labels and placements for the [Yes] [No] [Maybe] [Dismiss] [Fail] [Retry] [Abort] buttons on my user interfaces, just to make sure they don't clic on the lower-right button without reading anything.

      --
      Non-Linux Penguins ?
    6. Re:I call it wack-a-mole by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      I've seen that on some shareware or demo software. It also changes which is the default so you can't just hit enter.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    7. Re:I call it wack-a-mole by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, I don't know about you, but if MY printer was on fire, I'd want to know about it!

    8. Re:I call it wack-a-mole by hitmark · · Score: 1

      yep, because the good ones only show up if one bother to run the program from a terminal anyways.

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
    9. Re:I call it wack-a-mole by LordAndrewSama · · Score: 1

      maybe make it a fun game, where the error message will only go away if clicked more than 10 seconds after it appeared, otherwise it just instantly pops up again somewhere else on the screen so they have to move the mouse, just like whack-a-mole. Wonder how long it will take before people figure it out...

    10. Re:I call it wack-a-mole by supersloshy · · Score: 1

      Whenever I hear one person telling another person "how to use a computer" and a popup of any sort (including firewall, antivirus, and software update popups) comes up, they are always told to "ignore it and just close the stupid things". I've had so many problems in my own family along the lines of:

      Mom: "Ryan something is wrong on the laptop!"
      Me: "Alright, what is it?"
      Mom: "[program x] isn't working, I keep clicking it and clicking it but nothing happens!"
      Me: "Let me take a look at it." *double-clicks program icon and a popup appears about allowing it through our firewall*
      Me: "Mom, what did you do when this pops up?"
      Mom: "Oh, I just close it... is that a problem?"
      Me: *sigh* "You have to read these things, mom! What they say is very important sometimes." *clicks allow button*
      Me: "There, it'll work now."
      Mom: "Thanks! Computers are so annoying..."

      I've been trying to get her to use Ubuntu for years, which would help mostly, but she's stuck on Vista. I hope they get (another) virus so they'll want to switch ;).

      --
      "Our country is not nearly so overrun with the bigoted as it is overrun with the broadminded." -Archbishop Fulton Sheen
    11. Re:I call it wack-a-mole by Sir_Lewk · · Score: 1

      I would highly doubt that. A far greater percentage of linux users are technical users and thus able to decipher error messages.

      --
      "linux is just DOS with a UNIX like syntax" -- Galactic Dominator (944134)
    12. Re:I call it wack-a-mole by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1

      Of course that just shows the problem: There shouldn't be a box about allowing it through the firewall. Either she is competent enough to decide if the program can be trusted, then the very fact that she clicked the program should be enough to tell that this program should be allowed. Or she is not competent enough, then the popup asking her isn't going to help either.

      If there weren't so many popups appearing, many of them just pointless, then I guess more users would read them.

      Also, one problem is that those popups steal the input focus. I remember typing something at my father's Windows computer, and then while I was typing, a popup came, and immediately disappeared due to the next key press before I actually had noticed that it was there. I have no idea what the popup tried to tell me, nor what I told the popup with my keypress.

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    13. Re:I call it wack-a-mole by sorak · · Score: 1

      I've often described the action of quickly clicking on ok on whatever window pops up as the wack-a-mole behavior. With Windows, I can't say I blame users for this behavior because the popups that come up are so frequent and so useless that they've kinda been trained to do this. Linux errors are usually more useful, descriptive and since the order of the buttons change from window to window, you have to be more careful. ;-)

      Windows error messages tend to be along the lines of

      OMG! COOKIES AND FORMS! SOMEBODY'S GOING TO STEAL YOUR MONEY AND EAT YOUR CHILDREN!!!11!!111!!!1
      Click here if you do not wish to see this message again.

      Linux error messages run the gamut, but many of them seem to be exceptions that really mean nothing until you google the exact message and find some page that can tell you that the "null address" error means you do not have the right version of whichever module the application was trying to reference.

    14. Re:I call it wack-a-mole by Entropius · · Score: 1

      As I understand it this was used only when the computer had no clue what was wrong with the printer, so any actual real message would have been unhelpful too.

    15. Re:I call it wack-a-mole by jonaskoelker · · Score: 1

      Linux errors are usually more useful, descriptive and since the order of the buttons change from window to window, you have to be more careful. ;-)

      That's the best argument for ui inconsistency I've heard in a long time ;-)

      Hail Linux!

    16. Re:I call it wack-a-mole by hedwards · · Score: 1

      That's really the problem. You have to make some intelligent decisions about what's worthy of bugging the user about and what isn't. Obnoxious behaviors like MS' loud beep whenever it fails to do something just make users hate you for bothering them all the more. Worse it reinforces the sense that the programmers and engineers don't know what they're doing and that the software is crap.

      Unless there's something that the user can do about it, there's no reason why the pop ups should annoy or harass them, simply make them show up until say 5 seconds after they show any signs of life at all via keyboard or mouse. Additionally there should be a convenient place to look for logs of such information like on *Nix often times you don't know that you should've read the message until after you've reflexively clicked it out of existence or sometimes a few days later.

    17. Re:I call it wack-a-mole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The order of the buttons doesn't "change from window to window".
      "OK" is always on the left if you are using KDE and on the right if using Gnome.

      Of course lots of users mix and match but then again getting those users to read error messages is not an issue.

    18. Re:I call it wack-a-mole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Either she is competent enough to decide if the program can be trusted
      Trusted to what extent? Maybe I trust a program enough to run it, but not enough to break "least privilege" rules for it. If a program doesn't need network access in order to perform the tasks I want it to perform, I would rather not give it network access. It is not my machine's job to discern whether I want whatever arbitrary program to perform a network-oriented task; it is nice of it to ask me explicitly when I give it what might seem like conflicting orders.

    19. Re:I call it wack-a-mole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The order of the buttons changing isn't on purpose, but rather a lack of a formalized design guide.

      I think Linux users are just a little more likely to have encountered one of these other blind users in their travels, and refuse to be one themselves.

    20. Re:I call it wack-a-mole by TangoMargarine · · Score: 1

      Now if only there was a way to rig up some sort of electricity-generating apparatus to their forearms, we could power the world!

      --
      Unity? Screw that: XFCE. Slashdot Beta? Screw that: SoylentNews. Australis? Screw that: Pale Moon. UX developers DIAF
  16. Do away with them by mcgrew · · Score: 4, Interesting

    There should be no errors. Period. Your program should not allow errors.

    Now, if you're talking about a programming language or programming environment, that's different, but someone writing a program using your compiler/interpreter would be expected to read and understand the messages. But even there, some efforts are lax and feebel. I've gotten errors in MS Access that say error n: there is no message for this error". Boundary conditions for common "errors" are handled poorly; end of file, for example. If you make your own next/previous buttons to replace the puny little almost invisible Access buttons, there is no easy way to determming the beginning of the file, and Access returns an error in a big scary "stop" combo. This should be there in a debug mode, but a user shouldn't see it -- and Access' docs should be a lot more clear.

    I'm not just talking about Microsoft, you're all bad about it. Well, not you -- your PHBs who want it shipped yesterday when the damned thing's barely out of alpha are bad about it.

    With a graphics program or word processor, for an end user to see an error message is inexcusable. If your users are getting errors, your program is poorly designed.

    1. Re:Do away with them by malkavian · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Lovely, if you have the time and money to follow formal methods, but usually that's overkill. Which is why most programming languages have error trapping, which allows you to detect errors and handle them gracefully.
      There are many unknowns that can happen. Hardware failures, memory corruption, OS doing something it shouldn't, the malware on the system is interfering, the vendor changed the API behind the scenes and so on.. You always, always trap for errors, even if you don't expect them. That's what it's all about.

      For me, depending on how well I'd know the users, the error messages changed. Things I used to write for departments I was in at the time, or people I knew used to have messages for something going really awry (there was no way this was meant to happen) reading "User error: Please replace user and try again.".

      When I was writing bespoke software for clients of mine, I'd be descriptive, and state gently in layman's terms approximately what was going on, why it was likely to have happened, and whether or not I needed to know about it. Errors could be on input sanitizing through "Can't find the database or network" to "Everything has gone catastrophically wrong. Call me now" type of errors.
      I always found that the general "This is a note you did something wrong" is best handled in page by little icons.
      Something that you really want to wake someone up to, as a larger issue is in play (can't find the network or some such) warrants a dialog box, with an curvy icon and yellow background, with explanatory messages put simply on it; no 5 page essays, just a simple overview and a link to a 'help page' to help them solve it if possible (even if that is just an explanation followed by 'phone the service desk' at your site).
      The big problems deserve a spiky looking icon with a red background. Again a simple explanation that says "This is really bad, call someone please"; definitely worth of a message that leaves them understanding that "This Is Bad".

    2. Re:Do away with them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There should be no errors. Period. Your program should not allow errors.

      ...

      If your users are getting errors, your program is poorly designed.

      So how should you deal with (for example) the user entering an invalid invoice or order code that you have to check against the back-end servers? Guess which one they *really* meant?

    3. Re:Do away with them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      With a graphics program or word processor, for an end user to see an error message is inexcusable. If your users are getting errors, your program is poorly designed.

      I get your point, but that's naive.

      Users pointing your software to the wrong types of files, external harddrives being disconnected while in use, network connection being lost or simply "hard" hardware failure such as failing hard drive sectors or memory corrupted bits in memory are but a few examples that simply cannot be handled gracefully without making the user aware of the problem.

    4. Re:Do away with them by Phroggy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There should be no errors. Period. Your program should not allow errors.

      I agree: errors should not be allowed. That's why, when the user does something dumb, instead of allowing an error to occur, you should display a message on the screen alerting the user to the problem and informing them of how to fix it, so that an error doesn't occur.

      Come on, seriously?

      --
      $x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
      $x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
    5. Re:Do away with them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I see you've never dealt with software that interacted with other software, or networks, or external services, or external drives that might be disconnected...

    6. Re:Do away with them by The+MAZZTer · · Score: 1

      Sweet, as long as we're getting rid of errors lets get rid of bugs too! Problem solved!

      Seriously, there are those of us where a little error message can go a long way to help us figure out a problem without needing to call up Tech Support. Not to mention if you just close a program every time there's a fatal error it's just going to look even worse than if you pop up an error message to notify the user there is a problem.

      Getting rid of non-fatal error messages that don't stop an operation from completing--sure, though I wouldn't kill them completely, tuck them out of the way somewhere so a user like me who still cares can see them (example: IE/Chrome/Firefox info bars). But anything that forces the action the user is trying to do to abort or kills the program needs to let the user know what's going on at least, even if it's "The operation could not be completed, call Tech Support for help." and more technical users know there's a log file they can check to try to fix it themselves.

    7. Re:Do away with them by Mark19960 · · Score: 1

      Haha... what industry do you work in?
      Try again Mr. perfect.

    8. Re:Do away with them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Your program should not allow errors.

      I assume you're not a programmer. But regardless, most errors happen because something the programmer didn't anticipate happened. So I'd like your help now; I have a large application that might have errors in it (I don't know). Please identify anything that I didn't think could possibly happen. No need to look at the source code since these are unanticipated errors anyway.

    9. Re:Do away with them by nedlohs · · Score: 1

      The rest of us aren't perfect. Hence there are some bugs in the code that the user can trigger.

      Sure we could hide them and not show error messages and let the user continue working oblivious to the fact that the data is never going to be saved because our database connection dropped and won't reconnect. I suspect our users will be less happy with that situation than getting an error message and calling support.

    10. Re:Do away with them by radtea · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There should be no errors. Period. Your program should not allow errors.

      So what is a program supposed to do when the hardware it talks to fails or is not plugged in? Or when the network resource it requires is not available? Shuffle its feet and hem and haw and hope the user won't notice?

      Anyone who says "there should be no errors" doesn't know how the word "error" is used in computing. That there should be no BUGS may be a formally realizable goal (at least that's what my functional programmer friends tell me) but let me ask you: when was the last time you drove a car that had no error notifications on the dashboard? No idiot lights, no oil pressure gauge, no fuel gauge, nothing but a speedometer?

      Never, right? That's because all machines have a physical component whose state is sometimes unable to fulfill user requirements, and we need to communicate that state to users. We call those communications "error messages" in the software world, and they cover everything from "out of memory" to "printer on fire."

      On another note, I like the ball-kicking idea, but my users are mostly female, so it won't work. Recently I've had a bunch of complaints about missing hardware because they are clicking through the dialog that detects that hardware is missing, and then complaining when the main UI comes up and tells them there is no hardware connected. They never remember they've clicked through because they are so used to simply clicking OK on any dialog that comes up, a phenomenon that has gotten much worse in the past few years.

      --
      Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
    11. Re:Do away with them by iangoldby · · Score: 1, Insightful

      There should be no errors. Period. Your program should not allow errors.

      I agree: errors should not be allowed. That's why, when the user does something dumb, instead of allowing an error to occur, you should display a message on the screen alerting the user to the problem and informing them of how to fix it, so that an error doesn't occur.

      Come on, seriously?

      Yes, seriously. At least as far as possible anyway.

      It is all about the design. Your problem is making a user interface that allows users to do really dumb things. You want a number from 1 to 10?

      1. Level one is a free text entry field with no checking. The user types in -15 and **boom** - the program bails out.

      2. Level two is a free text entry field with input validation. The user types in XYZZY and **boom** - up comes an error dialog. Almost as annoying as 1.

      3. Level three is a text entry field that allows only digits 1 to 10, and a maximum of two characters. The user types 99 and **boom** - up comes an error dialog. Still quite annoying.

      4. Level four is a spin box. The user can't enter a number directly but presses buttons to ratchet up and down between 1 and 10. It is now quite impossible to enter an illegal value. But pressing a button ten times is a real drag. And you still get an error dialog if you select one of the values that has already been taken.

      5. Level five realises that asking for a number between 1 and 10 was a really bad user interface design in the first place and goes back to ask the user what he really wanted to get done.

    12. Re:Do away with them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      I find it humorous that someone talks high and mighty about errors and development but his real world example is MS Access. Sorry guy, it just makes me chuckle.

    13. Re:Do away with them by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      With a graphics program or word processor, for an end user to see an error message is inexcusable.

      So if you try to save in a nonexistent or read-only directory it should do what? Just pretend it all worked and hope nobody notices?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    14. Re:Do away with them by renoX · · Score: 1

      >There should be no errors. Period. Your program should not allow errors.

      Very funny. When are you writting a wordprocessor (not a toy say one which use ODF) or a webbrowser?

    15. Re:Do away with them by steveb3210 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      There should be no errors. Period. Your program should not allow errors.

      If i'm writing a calculator and the user types/clicks 4 / 0 - tell me what behavior is appropriate.

    16. Re:Do away with them by Mangala · · Score: 1

      That's a pretty strong stance to take... especially for someone who can't compose a single paragraph of text without numerous errors. The fact is, we're human. It's often far more effecient to clean up after our mistakes than to spend significant extra time to hone our effort to perfection and hope there are no mistakes.

    17. Re:Do away with them by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      With a graphics program or word processor, for an end user to see an error message is inexcusable. If your users are getting errors, your program is poorly designed.

      Your drive is full. Do yo want me to
      [Delete C:/My Documents/Porn and try again] [Cancel] [I don't read error messages - just reformat the drive to make more room]

      Unable to save file goat.se - unknown file type.
      [Save as] [Cancel] [I don't read error messages - pick the name of an existing file at random and overwrite it]

      Warning: This will reformat your hard drive. Are you sure?
      [Yes] [No] [I don't read error messages - just do it]

      Unable to connect to remote server
      [Retry] [Cancel] [I don't read error messages - just fake it by showing me random crap from my local filesystem]

      Incomplete file transfer.
      [Save] [Delete] [Retry] [Quit] [I don't read error messages - pick an option at random]

      A file by that name already exists.
      [Overwrite] [Rename] [Cancel] [I don't read error messages - hose my old file]

      Your battery is low.
      [Save and quit] [Quit without saving] [Suspend to disk] [I don't read error messages - never warn me again, EVER]

      And the best one:
      New updates have been installed.
      [Reboot new] [Reboot later] [Reboot now even though I clicked on Reboot later]

    18. Re:Do away with them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How about this. Your new web browser tries to connect to a website:

      1. Level one is a free text entry field with no checking. The user types in an URL that doesn't exist or the server is down and **boom** the web browser bails out.
      2. Level two is a free text entry field with error checking. The user types in an URL that doesn't exist or the server is down, and **boom** up comes an error 404 page. Almost as annoying as 1.
      3. Level three is a text entry field that automatically checks the internet for every valid URL possible. It simply won't allow the user to enter an URL that doesn't exist, or for a down server. However, since it has to check a list of every website in existence, it takes weeks for each character the user inputs to validate the input.
      4. Level four is a spin box. The user can't enter an URL directly but presses buttons to ratchet up and down between 1 and 10. It is now quite impossible to enter an illegal value. But pressing a button a googol times to cycle through every URL in existence is a real drag. And you still get an error dialog if the page goes down between the time the spin box is populated and the time the user cycles to it and selects it.
      5. Level 5 realizes that asking for an URL between 1 and 10 was a bad user interface design in the first place and goes back to ask the user what he really wanted to get done, using Bing to return a list of possible web pages. But if the page no longer exists, **boom** still an error 404.

    19. Re:Do away with them by Xugumad · · Score: 1

      We don't have issues with users reading or not reading internal error messages. We display a summary just in case, but generally what the user sees amounts to "It broke. E-mail us".

      However, we do need users to read messages about input validation. For example, a user recently called us to say they couldn't rename something (to the same name as something at already existed, where names are required to be unique), and why was there a yellow box at the top of their screen (the warning message about the name collision). Or about access issues (we made the mistake of making user homepages unique URLs, and spend 6 months with users trying to log into each other's homepages and then complaining, despite the 256x256 home button in the middle of the error page, that it wouldn't let them see the page).

    20. Re:Do away with them by tepples · · Score: 1

      So if you try to save in a nonexistent or read-only directory it should do what?

      Redisplay the save as dialog box starting at the user's home directory, which is writable. If the user's home directory is not writable, tell the file manager to prompt the user to make his home directory writable.

    21. Re:Do away with them by Xugumad · · Score: 1

      Our users need to mark work. Work is marked on a fixed, pre-defined scale (which is configurable elsewhere, but typically by a different user). So if the scale is 0-20 at 0.1 intervals, and they enter 25, or -5, or 10.05, we have to tell them we can't accept that...

      Word processors might be able to accept nearly anything, but most apps need a lot of input validation...

    22. Re:Do away with them by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Without telling them why, that'll only confuse them more. It could also lead to accidental overwriting of a file.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    23. Re:Do away with them by tepples · · Score: 1

      Without telling them why, that'll only confuse them more.

      Then whenever the file browser is displaying a folder that the user can't write to, the "Save" button becomes gray, and its name changes to "Can't Save". Two buttons appear below the filename field: "Why Not?" (which displays a brief explanation of folder permissions) and "Save Somewhere Else" (which goes to My Documents). The name changes back and the extra buttons disappear once the user navigates to a writable folder.

      It could also lead to accidental overwriting of a file.

      Then every time the text in the file name input field changes, check the file system to see whether the entered file name can be written to. Change the name of the "Save" button to "Replace" whenever the entered file name matches that of an existing file, and change it back once the entered file name no longer matches that of an existing file. If the file is not writable, change it to "Can't Replace" with buttons like those above.

    24. Re:Do away with them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      With a graphics program or word processor, for an end user to see an error message is inexcusable. If your users are getting errors, your program is poorly designed.

      Error: Your document cannot be saved. You filled up your disk, again, idiot!

    25. Re:Do away with them by Captain+Spam · · Score: 1

      There should be no errors. Period. Your program should not allow errors.

      If i'm writing a calculator and the user types/clicks 4 / 0 - tell me what behavior is appropriate.

      Well, obviously, your program should not allow errors. Ergo, the interface should, in that case, be a slider that represents the entire range of real numbers, including decimals, positive and negative, except zero. Duh.

      What's that, you say? You're working with complex numbers? Well, geez, make the slider include the complex plane, too! Do I have to explain EVERYTHING to you?

      --
      Demanding constant attention will only lead to attention.
    26. Re:Do away with them by mcgrew · · Score: 0, Troll

      "User error: Please replace user and try again."

      This is EXACTLY what's wrong with software; the idea that it's the user who's dumb, and is exactly what I don't like about MS software. If your program is going to crash if the user wants ten items out of eight, don't allow more than eight.

      There are many unknowns that can happen. Hardware failures,

      Which should affect every piece of software there and shouldn't be your concern

      memory corruption,

      Again, this is the hardware vendor and especially OS vendor's responsibility.

      OS doing something it shouldn't,

      You need to read the OS docs more carefully, and if their docs are shitty, write for a different OS.

      the malware on the system is interfering,

      Oh, you're writing for Windows? Sucks to be you. But seriously, that's not your responsibility; Microsoft need to make sure its malwars isn't biting it's developers.

      the vendor changed the API behind the scenes

      You have a shitty vendor, maybe you should use a different development platform? The problem is that everybody is shipping utter crap knowing they can always blame somebody else.

    27. Re:Do away with them by Kjella · · Score: 1

      That there should be no BUGS may be a formally realizable goal (at least that's what my functional programmer friends tell me)

      It can be formally proven that a computer application is equal to an equally complex and incomprehensible formal description. Though whether you're any closer to achieving what you wanted to do in the real world is highly questionable.

      Anyway, there's fundamentally three different types of error messages. One is those where there's an external error condition where you need to inform or guide the user towards fixing it themselves, like say no network connection. Not much choice here, it's beyond your ability to fix.

      The second type are those where you intentionally trap errors, even though you don't know exactly what they are like say a database call or RPC call or HTTP request, here people tend to give way too much information. 99.9% of the time what you need to do is collect as much as possible in the background, pop up a dialog box asking them what they were doing and a "send report" or "don't send report" buttons. Users aren't interested in SQL errors or stack traces or whatever else you like to pop up while developing/testing it.

      The third are the kind where you didn't expect it, no error catching except maybe very generic ones and most likely is caused by a bug. Long story short, if you knew about the bug you would have fixed it instead of writing a good error message for it so do that.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    28. Re:Do away with them by icebraining · · Score: 1

      What if he doesn't have permissions to do that? What if their home directory is a network drive that has gone offline?

      Seriously, you can't guess everything about a specific environment.

    29. Re:Do away with them by ianare · · Score: 1

      That's a very simple issue. You just make a text box that only allows two digits, and if the digit entered is lower than 1 or greater than 10, you make it 1 or 10, respectively.

    30. Re:Do away with them by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      So what is a program supposed to do when the hardware it talks to fails or is not plugged in?

      Obviously there are going to be cases where a user wil have to be informed of something, but there are simply too many error messages, which is why users ignore them. In the case of the unplugged LAN or scanner, a message "looking for network..." or "looking for scanner..." should suffice, and the user shouldn't have to click "ok" although a "cancel operation" button should be available. It should wait intil the user plugs the damned thing in or clicks cancel, and if he plugs it in the box should disappear and the program should just keep humming along.

      let me ask you: when was the last time you drove a car that had no error notifications on the dashboard? No idiot lights, no oil pressure gauge, no fuel gauge, nothing but a speedometer?

      The gas and temperature guages are nothing like error messages; the light that says your brakes aren't working is. But cars have mechanical parts that wear out or break, software doesn't.

      Anyone who says "there should be no errors" doesn't know how the word "error" is used in computing.

      You can't expect your non-programming users to know that, and should never have the word "error" in an indicational message unless it is a programming language you're writing. You should strive to eliminate or at least minimize these messages. You don't expect a driver to be an automotive engineer or to know anything about cars except how to drive them, why do you expect end-users to know about programming concepts? The user of a word processor shouldn't have to know anything exept how to write and how to use that particular tool for writing.

      They never remember they've clicked through because they are so used to simply clicking OK on any dialog that comes up

      Again, there are way too damned many dialog boxes. If these were rare, users would read them.

    31. Re:Do away with them by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      The one thing I hate most about Access is it isn't a fucking language! I'd go back to dBase or Nomad if I could; I could make a program do anything I wanted it to in those languages. Ever write in assembler? I have; there are no error messages in hand-assembled machine code, and I've done that, too (albeit almost thirty years ago on a far simpler instruction set than today's computers have).

    32. Re:Do away with them by tepples · · Score: 1

      How does Google Docs or any comparable system deal with a network connection that disappears in the middle of editing?

    33. Re:Do away with them by UserCentered · · Score: 1

      You're on the right track here, but as was mentioned, this is basically impossible. My first recommendation is to use the language of the user. Tell them clearly what the problem is without resorting to technical jargon. Allow for this jargon to be accessed by opening an advanced tab or some similar system. Try to tell the user directly what they need to do to fix the problem (don't just tell them to contact their system administrator). If they need to call someone try to give them the number. Try listing any instructions in actionable bullet-points. Simple to read lists are going to be much more likely to be read than a textbox full of code dump. The puppy error idea might work. I would love to hear more stories about success or failure here. If are with a larger company, then talk to one of these departments for more ideas (or validation of your existing ideas): Human Factors User Experience Usability They specialize in working with problems like this, and if they have the time they should see this as an interesting problem in their domain (I know I do).

    34. Re:Do away with them by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Your drive is full.

      Your OS should return the message. If it doesn't have this feature, a brief "Hard drive full, could not save file" should suffice, and the program should not exit and the data should not be lost.

      Unable to save file goat.se - unknown file type.

      The design of your program is faulty; it should not be able to load or especially modify a file type it can't save.

      Warning: This will reformat your hard drive. Are you sure?

      Why would any application reformat the hard drive? This is a function of the OS. If your program can reformat the hard drive and is NOT part of the OS, your program is crap of the worst sort.

      Incomplete file transfer.

      No message, keep retrying unless the user presses "esc".

      A file by that name already exists.

      This is actually a design flaw in every OS I've seen. There is a time stamp, there should be no reason why I can't have two files with the same name.

      Your battery is low.

      The hardware/OS combo should handle this and it should have no bearing on your application whatever.

      New updates have been installed. [Reboot new] [Reboot later]

      No message; the system will be rebooted at some point anyway. Assume "reboot later". The only time you should have to reboot for any kind of update is an update to the kernel or file system.

    35. Re:Do away with them by Hatta · · Score: 1

      The gas and temperature guages are nothing like error messages; the light that says your brakes aren't working is. But cars have mechanical parts that wear out or break, software doesn't.

      Software does have mechanical parts that break. They have hard drives that fill up. They have network connections that may go down. They have input devices that may need to be plugged in.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    36. Re:Do away with them by iangoldby · · Score: 1

      Woosh.

      That was the sound of my point completely passing you by.

      In the first place I said "as far as possible". Everyone can come up with an example where nobody seems to be able to come up with an alternative paradigm and therefore checking the input after it has been provided and interrupting the user's flow with an error notification is still needed. (Of course it may still be that we haven't thought hard enough...)

      But most of the time, with most of the error dialogs I see, if the interface had been designed from a usability point of view rather than a programmer's point of view, the error dialog could have been avoided by making the error unthinkable - that is to say, the application shouldn't give the user the opportunity even to express the kind of wrong thinking that would lead to the error dialog.

    37. Re:Do away with them by LinuxAndLube · · Score: 1

      6. Level 6 is a drop-down box.

    38. Re:Do away with them by porges · · Score: 1

      To review: the proposition is "With a graphics program or word processor, for an end user to see an error message is inexcusable."

      Your defense is that the program should, instead, in a dialog box, note that it can't do something that was requested.

      I don't see why this is materially different. Either way, the user tries to do something, and the program refuses. Now, in your example, there's information about why it failed, which is good. That's an argument against cryptic error messages, not an argument against error messages.

    39. Re:Do away with them by anyGould · · Score: 1

      I've gotten errors in MS Access that say error n: there is no message for this error".

      This is the truly inexcusable error - you know what the error is (you gave it a number, didn't you?), but didn't bother to put in some text to tell the poor sap what went wrong.

    40. Re:Do away with them by misiu_mp · · Score: 1

      Hard drives, network connections and input devices are all part of the hardware not software. Software does not just break (it can be created broken), but a computer, as a combination of software and hardware, might break.

    41. Re:Do away with them by Yetihehe · · Score: 1

      there are no error messages in hand-assembled machine code

      Typically because in hand-assembled machine code it's just too hard to make proper error detection and programs will just crash (sometimes along with operating system).

      --
      Extreme Programming - Redundant Array of Inexpensive Developers
    42. Re:Do away with them by tepples · · Score: 1

      You caught me. I'm presenting a compromise: try to give the user options to work around an error automatically and unobtrusively, and if possible, predict whether an error will occur before it does.

    43. Re:Do away with them by misiu_mp · · Score: 1

      This is actually very nice and neat usability design for this particular case, but how would it work in other circumstances, such as no network connection, no scanner connected, disk io error, random memory error caused by broken hardware or cosmic radiation, printer on fire or any other hardware malfunction ?

    44. Re:Do away with them by icebraining · · Score: 1

      Shows a popup with a title "Attention", an OK button and some text:

      Sorry, a network error has prevented Google Docs from saving your changes. Please try again. If the problem persists, please stop working until you are able to re-establish a network connection, as your unsaved changes may be lost. Please also try the troubleshooting steps in the help article below
      http://docs.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=157630

      Seems like a normal error message to me.

    45. Re:Do away with them by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      That's a pretty strong stance to take... especially for someone who can't compose a single paragraph of text without numerous errors.

      Two words: "Many eyes". If you're the only one who examines your code, your company sucks as a development company. Books have not only authors, but editors and proofreaders. Commercial quality software should, too.

    46. Re:Do away with them by Ksevio · · Score: 1

      I've had problems with users ignoring the errors that tell them exactly what they need to do to fix the problem. In one case, the user needs to set the directory path to a program (usually can find it in the registry, but sometimes it's installed wrong). They will copy the message that says where to set it and send it to me. I'll then respond with just about the exact same message and the problem will be solved. This isn't something that's so much an error, but part of the setup process the user skipped over.

    47. Re:Do away with them by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      When the "/" button is clicked, disable the "0" button.

    48. Re:Do away with them by tepples · · Score: 1

      This is actually very nice and neat usability design for this particular case, but how would it work in other circumstances

      The same way: for each thing that could fail, find an unobtrusive way to communicate it in the same screen real estate where the user is already looking. If it isn't an "alert box", it doesn't train users to "just click OK". Let the user summon the alert box if he wants, and give a reasonable quick-fix button. It's like spell-check in a word processor: it doesn't pop up an alert when you misspell a word; it just decorates the word such that context-clicking produces options to fix or ignore.

      no network connection

      How do cell phones handle trying to make a call with 0 bars?

      no scanner connected

      "Plug in a scanner" is nicer than "Error: no scanner detected".

      printer on fire

      One technique is to draw from error indications with which all adult users in a culture are expected to be familiar. (I say "familiar" not "intuitive" because no interface save possibly a woman's nipple is intuitive.) In this case, how do smoke detectors warn the user about "building on fire"?

    49. Re:Do away with them by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Any errors I make are caught by others. Yes, there are defective autos, but they're rare. There are defective products of all sorts, but in most industries if you ship a product with an obvious flaw, you don't stay in business long.

      In some professions, say, medicine, you'ld damned well better get it right, and get it right the first time. If I have a new washing machine shipped to my house and it has a dent or something doesn't work right, I send the damned thing back and buy a different model. You can't do that with software.

    50. Re:Do away with them by mean+pun · · Score: 1

      Your drive is full.

      Your OS should return the message. If it doesn't have this feature, a brief "Hard drive full, could not save file" should suffice, and the program should not exit and the data should not be lost.

      Why do you think that's the only reasonable behavior? Perhaps I'm sick of this program, and I don't care that my data is lost. Also, some OS offer to empty the trashcan to make room, which is very helpful in the circumstances.

      Warning: This will reformat your hard drive. Are you sure?

      Why would any application reformat the hard drive? This is a function of the OS. If your program can reformat the hard drive and is NOT part of the OS, your program is crap of the worst sort.

      That's just evading the issue. Some people have to write formatters for their OS, and some programs have to do things that are just as destructive as formatting.

      Incomplete file transfer.

      No message, keep retrying unless the user presses "esc".

      You'll have to tell the user something or he'll assume the program hangs.

      A file by that name already exists.

      This is actually a design flaw in every OS I've seen. There is a time stamp, there should be no reason why I can't have two files with the same name.

      ... except that it is mighty confusing (''you mean there is more than one file with this name?!?") and potentially wasteful ("you mean the disk is full because it didn't delete all those versions?!?"). I know of only one OS that supported this: VMS. There must be a reason it didn't catch on.

      Your battery is low.

      The hardware/OS combo should handle this and it should have no bearing on your application whatever.

      It's still an error message the OS cannot (well, in a sane OS should not) avoid showing to the user. Similar for out-of-paper for printer drivers, out-of-tape for red-tape spewer drivers, or out-of-malt for brewery controllers, or whatever. Sometimes a program, part of the OS or not, just has to tell the users at least some of the facts of life. It's a dirty job, but somebody has to do it.

      New updates have been installed. [Reboot new] [Reboot later]

      No message; the system will be rebooted at some point anyway. Assume "reboot later". The only time you should have to reboot for any kind of update is an update to the kernel or file system.

      You still have to tell the user that it's a good idea to do a reboot. While you're at it, you might as well offer the option to do it right now.

    51. Re:Do away with them by FireFury03 · · Score: 1

      That's because all machines have a physical component whose state is sometimes unable to fulfill user requirements, and we need to communicate that state to users. We call those communications "error messages" in the software world, and they cover everything from "out of memory" to "printer on fire."

      Error messages don't just apply to hardware problems in any case - the idea that you can make software free from user-error messages whilst still making it usable is just downright silly.

      Lets take an email application for example. How do you send an email when the user has forgotten to enter the recipient's address? Some options spring to mind:

      You could grey out the "send" button until all the required data is filled in - this eliminates the need for an error message because it prevents the "sending with a blank recipient" condition ever occurring. But the cost is high - you're now relying on the user to figure out for themselves why the "send" button can't be pressed, instead of allowing them to press it and then informing them why it doesn't make sense by displaying an error message.

      Another option is to convert the whole thing into a step-by-step wizard, whereby they *have* to complete each step before moving onto the next. But this means that the user has to adjust their workflow to conform to the software. For example, I frequently don't enter the recipient's address until after I have read the message body (I probably needed to look up the address and didn't want to break my train of thought that led me to write the message in the first place).

    52. Re:Do away with them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In some professions, say, medicine, you'ld damned well better get it right, and get it right the first time
      Too bad the hardware was released without documentation. If everyone took your advice from a related thread, we'd have no doctors.

    53. Re:Do away with them by amplt1337 · · Score: 1

      here people tend to give way too much information. 99.9% of the time what you need to do is collect as much as possible in the background, pop up a dialog box asking them what they were doing and a "send report" or "don't send report" buttons. Users aren't interested in SQL errors or stack traces or whatever else you like to pop up while developing/testing it.

      In principle you are correct. But keep in mind that many companies do not have access to support for their vendor software, or the support staff is totally unresponsive, and providing information can allow a clueful local support person to figure out how to fix the problem, even when the company in question cannot or will not.

      It's much easier to ignore information you don't want than to get ahold of information that the software "helpfully" hid from you. If users don't understand error messages, oh well, but at least it's something to google when things go wrong.

      --
      Freedom isn't free; its price is the well-being of others.
    54. Re:Do away with them by amplt1337 · · Score: 1

      You don't expect a driver to be an automotive engineer or to know anything about cars except how to drive them
      Actually, I think that no one is qualified to operate an automobile who doesn't have at least a decent understanding of how most of the major systems work. Not to mention of the physics involved in the motion of automobiles. ...but then again, I expect more of people than they usually deliver. It might be why I'm so dissatisfied with most of humanity.

      --
      Freedom isn't free; its price is the well-being of others.
    55. Re:Do away with them by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      True, and it's the OS vendors that fall down here. I'll use Windows as an example but it probably applies to everybody (it applies to KDE) -- rather than those useless little icons at the bottom right (mostly from third parties like McCafee) that mostly don't do anything, there should be indicators; drive capacity, network speed, printer status, etc.

      At risk of being redundant, obviously you cen never get rid of ALL error messages, but there are far FAR too many. Microsof is the most egregous offender and unfortunately everyone copies them. The worst, IMO is the balloon that says "you have unused icons on your desktop" and you have to click to make it go away. What's worse is the damned thing usually comes back five minutes later.

      THIS is the sort of thing I'm talking about, and is the reason people click through error messages without reading them. Someone at Microsoft, PLEASE kick somebody's ass, OK?

    56. Re:Do away with them by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Why do you think that's the only reasonable behavior? Perhaps I'm sick of this program, and I don't care that my data is lost.

      In that case you can delete the file after closing and uninstalling the program.

      Also, some OS offer to empty the trashcan to make room, which is very helpful in the circumstances.

      It seems to me that it's brain-dead stupid for an OS to report to an application that the hard drive is full when what it's mostly full of is DELETED FILES.

      That's just evading the issue. Some people have to write formatters for their OS, and some programs have to do things that are just as destructive as formatting.

      I'm talking about applications, and obviously there is going to be a need for some error messages, but AS DAMNED FEW AS POSSIBLE. Now tell me what application can do something as destructive as formatting the hard drive so I can avoid it. The last app I saw like that was one of the Norton Utilities, back when the Norton Utilities were still useful.

      except that it is mighty confusing (''you mean there is more than one file with this name?!?") and potentially wasteful ("you mean the disk is full because it didn't delete all those versions?!?"). I know of only one OS that supported this: VMS. There must be a reason it didn't catch on.

      Perhaps it wasn't the idea, just the implimantation.

      You still have to tell the user that it's a good idea to do a reboot. While you're at it, you might as well offer the option to do it right now.

      More likely the user logged on to the computer because he had work to do on it. Telling him it's a good idea to reboot would come at program termination; plus, the program shoudl inform the OS some way, and if there are no data files to save/delete/corrupt the OS should offer the option to reboot.

    57. Re:Do away with them by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Thank you; that was my point exactly. Most error messages shouldn't even show up. IMO the worst error message is "you have unused icons on your desktop". And programmers wonder why users ignore them?

    58. Re:Do away with them by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Well YEAH; heand-assembled machine code is as low a level you can get without using a soldering iron. You noticed I was referring to some ancient machinery with a single-user, minimalist OS. Writing to the hardware like that you set the OS aside completely; the app IS the OS.

    59. Re:Do away with them by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      Level 2 is a perfectly good solution, because if you NEED a number from 1 to 10, and ASK for a number from 1 to 10, only idiots who enter something that isn’t a number from 1 to 10 will ever see the error message.

      Level 3 is fucking annoying because it’s guaranteed to pop up error messages constantly when I hit the wrong key, or fat-finger two keys, or press “4” in the box without first highlighting the “1”, so it becomes “14” (or 41) and yells at me. What, I’m not smart enough to backspace my own mistakes? I can read, I know I’m supposed to enter a number from 1 to 10.

      Level 4 is annoying because I have to spin it until I get the number I want.

      Level 5 is a stupid asshole telling me “you don’t really need a number from 1 to 10”. If I asked for a number from 1 to 10, it’s because I needed a number from 1 to 10.

      If you want anything better than level 2, the only thing I would accept is a drop-down or spin box that CAN be typed into. It will never display a choice that isn’t in the drop-down or is out of the spin box’s range, but it won’t yell at me when I type the wrong thing. If it’s not an unreasonably massive list of options, I could also just drop it down and choose one, or spin to the one I want.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    60. Re:Do away with them by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Wait a minute... are you saying that that they're trying to save their data in a nonexistant location, or in a location that you don't personally agree with? I absolutely hate having a program tell me where to store the data. Unless I'm trying to store in in a read-only or system subdirectory, I'll put my files where I damned well please.

      If you're talking about where the OS looks for the program, it sounds like the design of your installation program is at fault.

    61. Re:Do away with them by John+Bayko · · Score: 1

      New updates have been installed. [Reboot new] [Reboot later]

      No message; the system will be rebooted at some point anyway. Assume "reboot later". The only time you should have to reboot for any kind of update is an update to the kernel or file system.

      You still have to tell the user that it's a good idea to do a reboot. While you're at it, you might as well offer the option to do it right now.

      This one isn't even an error message, so I don't know what it's doing here, but anyway the time to give the user that option is when they're first informed of the update and allowed to choose to accept it (you're not going to suggest all updates get installed automatically without user notification, right?). So provide [Install and Reboot] [Install] [Skip update] options then. The two most annoying update-related things are 1) an unasked for update that reboots your computer in the middle of something (who cares if something was unfinished/unsaved?), and 2) needing to babysit an update just to hit "reboot" at the end (especially security updates that you don't want to go away and leave unapplied).

      What it all comes down to is user interface design - the real stuff, not just how pretty your buttons look, but making things work. There is no shortcut. And one thing I've noticed, developers seem to stop at the point where something can work, and don't care if it will work. Too many deal with the will work part by just throwing out error messages for the parts they don't want to work at and going home with a job half done. I think that's what the original poster really takes issue with.

    62. Re:Do away with them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You want to bet the ball kicking idea won't work with female users? I'm not female, but I happen to know box-kicking hurts just as much.

    63. Re:Do away with them by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      Really ... how do you do away with the error that occurs when the user deletes the data file your application requires to work?

      You're naive at best, ignorant at worst, and don't really understand the source of many 'error messages'.

      Most errors occur because ... something unexpected happened, and the message is there to let every know so it can be fixed.

      Please show me the bug free code you've written that needs no error messages and no, trivial 'hello world' type crap doesn't count.

      What do you do in the word processor when a file can be saved do to permissions? Nothing? Get root and change the permissions cause clearly the user shouldn't see an error?

      Go back to your CS class professor, you don't get the real world.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    64. Re:Do away with them by element-o.p. · · Score: 1

      You always, always trap for errors, even if you don't expect them.

      Exactly. I've coded this before, and had someone peer-reviewing my code laugh at the "This error message should not be possible. Please contact Sys Admin and explain how you got here, so we can prevent this error in the future." error message I trapped for.

      --
      MCSE? No, sir...I don't do Windows. Yes, I am an idealist. What's your point?
    65. Re:Do away with them by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      5. Level five realises that asking for a number between 1 and 10 was a really bad user interface design in the first place and goes back to ask the user what he really wanted to get done.
      So what would you suggest for say quality settings for an image format.

      Or what about when someone enters the order number from a package that has just arrived in goods inwards to receipt it and the order in question does not exist?

      Or what about when your customer gives you thier customer number to order and the database says they are blocked and not allowed to order anything because they haven't been paying thier invoices?

      Or what about when something beyond your programs control (out of disk space, out of memory, network down etc) makes what should be a reasonable operation impossible?

      For better or worse errors will happen and need to be reported.

      Though I do think popping up a modal dialog is a lazy way to report errors, for say a bad value in a form i'd much rather show the user the form again with the "bad" entry highlighted in red and a message about why it's bad at the top. For quick and simple validation (e.g. checking a number is in range) you could even do the highlighting in real time.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    66. Re:Do away with them by Ksevio · · Score: 1

      My program is a third-party application that works with another program. It needs to start this up automatically, and if it was installed properly (the other program) then there should be no problem for the user since the path will be in the registry. If they didn't do that, then they have the option of setting the path manually. If they don't do that, then they get this error message telling them to set the path before they can do anything that would need it.

    67. Re:Do away with them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There should only be one button on severe error dialogs - "Take Test". When clicked, the dialog box expands to include a multiple-choice question:

      The above error message says:
      ( ) Your computer is on fire
      ( ) The network is down
      ( ) Your keyboard is unplugged
      ( ) The license server is down
      ( ) Windows has crashed

      Then refuse to do anything until they get it right. They'll have to read the message, and they'll have to understand it.

      Right?

      Okay, you're right, this won't work either. Nothing to see here, move along...

    68. Re:Do away with them by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      You aren't presenting a compromise. You're wishing for a pony. With wings. And a horn on its nose.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    69. Re:Do away with them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just silently create any non-existent destination folders. 7-Zip, I'm looking at you!

      As for not being writable, there is nothing you CAN sanely do about it besides tell them to check the permissions on the folder. For all the application knows, it could be trying to save to a ROM drive.

    70. Re:Do away with them by tepples · · Score: 1

      For all the application knows, it could be trying to save to a ROM drive.

      If so, it would be able to tell with a call to statvfs() or other operating system's counterpart.

    71. Re:Do away with them by anyGould · · Score: 1

      I'd disagree that most shouldn't show up. Instead I'd say that if you're going to pop up an error, you should tell me as much as possible, in the clearest terms possible.

      I maintain a program at work - basic "read all these files, do things to them, put them back" batch stuff. I make sure to catch all my errors (just so it doesn't actually crash), but the error messages vary. Sometimes I can tell exactly what went wrong, and I say it "field X on line Y of file Z is supposed to be a date, and it isn't. " (I don't have the option of just "fixing" it mid-job, sadly.)

      If I can't nail down exactly what threw the error, I tell them what file caused the problem "Something went wrong during step X on file Y."

      But at the very least, I can tell you "Something went wrong while doing step X." It's mostly useless, but it's still better than "Error Code 2."

    72. Re:Do away with them by tomhudson · · Score: 1
      Quick points:
      1. I've written custom disk formatters (more years ago than I want to think about). Sometimes you want to store data directly to the media, not to a filesystem. Sometimes you want to have a custom media layout.
      2. Some programs never terminate - heck, in a modern OS there are bound to be programs that never terminate. Lots of people leave their computer on 24/7, or suspend to ram instead of shutting down or rebooting. In your scenario, unless the person powers down the computer (or there's a power failure), updates never get applied.
      3. Some people are stupid enough to use the trashcan as their "archive"; some of the more "ingenious" use it as a version-controlled archive. "undelete undelete undelete undelete undelete - okay, it's that version I wanted!"

      That last one actually makes sense for a quick-and-dirty "version control", so don't knock it. Never have the OS delete files that the user thinks are only archived in a "trash can" and can be recovered if necessary.

    73. Re:Do away with them by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Perfection is impossible, but do you not strive for it anyway?

    74. Re:Do away with them by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Well, there are exceptions to everything, and nobody and nothing is perfect. But the GOAL should be "no error messages", even though it is an unachievable goal. If you're writing disk formatters then of course you should warn if there are data on the disk to be formatted, but this would be an exception.

      I'm surprised that nobody thinks there are too many error messages. For the average user on the average computer running the average program, an error message should be so rare that it makes him sit up and take notice. Instead, we get "there are unused icons on your desktop". Microsoft's take on this (as apparently their take on everything) is exactly the opposite as mine. Theirs seems to be "the more error messages, the better". IMO that's as ass-backwards as the backslash for a subdirectory separator, and is the sole reason people ignore error messages.

    75. Re:Do away with them by iangoldby · · Score: 1

      So what would you suggest for say quality settings for an image format.

      Numbers are a bit of an artificial construct when what you are really interested in is quality. This is a perfect example of the point I was trying to make. Since quality is an analogue scale, something like a slider might be appropriate. No numbers required.

      Or what about when someone enters the order number from a package that has just arrived in goods inwards to receipt it and the order in question does not exist?

      I'd question why an order has to be represented by a number, rather than the order itself. After all, it is not the number we are interested in. That's a bit irrelevant here though, because the error you asked about isn't the user's fault. The very different kind of issue I was trying to highlight is when the software allows users to try to do things that make no sense because the design of the software isn't right.

      Or what about when your customer gives you thier customer number to order and the database says they are blocked and not allowed to order anything because they haven't been paying thier invoices?

      Again, this isn't the kind of error I was talking about.

      Or what about when something beyond your programs control (out of disk space, out of memory, network down etc) makes what should be a reasonable operation impossible?

      As I said, 'where possible...'

      For better or worse errors will happen and need to be reported.

      Agreed. But where possible, the user interface should avoid giving the user a chance to do something that makes no sense.

    76. Re:Do away with them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah yes, the ever practical solution to all the problems of the world: be perfect.

      Hey it works for Ayn Rand.

    77. Re:Do away with them by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Just because you can't be perfect doesn't mean you shouldn't strive for perfection.

  17. Fixed Penalty by newbe5 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    We have found that the only way to make users take responsibility for errors is to give them a penalty for forcing the error to go away. For starters, where possible, the error wont actually close for them unless we enter an admin password to make it go away, and if they reboot to get rid of it (Task Manager is disabled on all client PC's) the machine will not open the application that crashed for 15 minutes. Of course, this all depends on the type of users you are dealing with, as more technically adept users wouldnt accept this kind of system, but after trying for literally YEARS to make users take responsibility for crashes and making sure the IT department is aware of them in order to fix the issue before it gets too hard to manage, these are the only steps that worked. Now, all of our end users are aware that if they ignore errors, they are going to suffer for it themselves.

    1. Re:Fixed Penalty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yet an other IT department that regards its users as nuisances. I'm sure the feeling is reciprocated.

    2. Re:Fixed Penalty by Jenming · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I am not really sure what you accomplish by disabling the software for 15 minutes. It sounds to me that if the person ignores your error message they get a 15 minute break.

      One thing IT people often forget is that their job is to make the other employee's jobs easier and more productive. This means solving problems without getting in the way of the work that actually makes the company money.

      --
      Morpheus, God of Dreams.
    3. Re:Fixed Penalty by DavidR1991 · · Score: 1

      If you can't SEE an error, you can't FIX it either. Especially since 99% of users who dismiss the errors will just say "It went wrong" rather than recording or describing what the error actually said

      And since I'm guessing a lot of these systems are DB related, I can completely understand the defensive approach departments take (it breaks -> You ignore -> Restart -> potentially compromise the integrity of the data: Because it error'ed and booted you out for a reason - that reason being that it can't allow itself to continue in an undefined state etc.)

    4. Re:Fixed Penalty by sribe · · Score: 1, Insightful

      ...but after trying for literally YEARS to make users take responsibility for crashes...

      Excuse me, but WHAT THE FUCK KIND OF ASSHOLES think that users should take responsibility for crashes??? Your software should not be crashing all over the place. You should devise some automated way to gather information about crashes without requiring the poor users of your piece of shit to do your job for you.

    5. Re:Fixed Penalty by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 1

      15 minutes away from the desk for a cigarette and a coffee sounds like just the thing a user would need when an application hangs.

      In all seriousness though, I've found that issues get reported when users know they'll get a response in a reasonable time period; 15 minutes, where I work. That's not time to resolution, that's just a callback stating that I either have stuff to do and they should just reboot, or to say that I'll be there in 10 minutes after i've finished logging this last call.

      Having an easy to use helpdesk has been benecicial. Screen dump into Paint, save as a JPEG, open helpdesk, quick description (actions prior to failure) and attach the image.

      If they're left hanging for an hour after leaving a message, expect your instances of "Error message" reports to decline, and your tickets for "nerdrage: keyboard through monitor" to increase.

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    6. Re:Fixed Penalty by newbe5 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Poor users my ass. They know exactly what they are doing, it takes them longer to save and close everything to reboot their PC than it does to make a quick 30 second phone call. What kind of assholes you ask? Me. This kind of asshole. Run your department the way you want, but unfortunately sometime you have to just take control of the situation or people will never learn. On top of this, I didnt WRITE the software, I distrobute it and maintain the machines and user logons that run on it. This is the best we could do to stave off the issues. Believe me, we started with a lovely fluffy attitude thinking that users would be responsible, and understand the back-end issues that could arrise from their impatient actions, but alas this was asking too much. Taking their toys off them and providing them with an incentive to pay attention is the only thing that works. Also, for most of the people ehre, it isnt a 15 minute break, it's 15 minutes that someone is riding their ass for data, making them look like an asshole, because everyone KNOWS why they are waiting. Complain all you want, it works. If people are more sensible and not intentionaly disruptive, then they wouldnt have their lives locked down in this way.

    7. Re:Fixed Penalty by John+Hasler · · Score: 1

      > Excuse me, but WHAT THE FUCK KIND OF ASSHOLES think that users should take
      > responsibility for crashes?

      I assume he means that they should take responsibility for reporting crashes.

      > You should devise some automated way to gather information about crashes
      > without requiring the poor users of your piece of shit to do your job for
      > you.

      And syslog's remote logging facility makes this easy.

      Oh. Wait...

      --
      Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    8. Re:Fixed Penalty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Murphy says that if you make a system fool proof, they'll just make a better fool. Also, I can tell from your astounding grasp of four letter explitives that you're highly educated and certainly not at all boorish and uncouth. Perhaps you should crawl back under a rock, little end user, and not show your ignorance at the adult table where all the programmers are talking.

    9. Re:Fixed Penalty by maxwell+demon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If you can't SEE an error, you can't FIX it either. Especially since 99% of users who dismiss the errors will just say "It went wrong" rather than recording or describing what the error actually said

      May I introduce you to this revolutionary technique called a log file?

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    10. Re:Fixed Penalty by boxxertrumps · · Score: 1

      The kind of assholes that think that contractors should report structural defects on their job site to the foreman and that chem students should report spills to the professor. And if someone found a strangely colored rash on their skin, these assholes think they should tell a doctor.

      LAST I CHECKED, people were responsible for getting their job done, and keeping their tools and workspace maintained properly. If they can't pay attention to their workspace long enough to make a note of a problem they are having, then they really don't deserve to stay employed. If they failed to do that as a contractor or chem student, they would definitely be out on their ear, why should office work be any different?

    11. Re:Fixed Penalty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...but after trying for literally YEARS to make users take responsibility for crashes...

      Excuse me, but WHAT THE FUCK KIND OF ASSHOLES think that users should take responsibility for crashes??? Your software should not be crashing all over the place. You should devise some automated way to gather information about crashes without requiring the poor users of your piece of shit to do your job for you.

      Yeah, god damn GM! They should make the car fix itself when I drive it into the police station, not make me stall and get arrested! Those bastards!

    12. Re:Fixed Penalty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Murphy says that if you make a system fool proof, they'll just make a better fool
      So instead of going that route, make it unpleasant for the one who plays the fool. That way, you no longer try to keep up in the arms race against foolishness. Instead, it takes someone clever and thoughtful to avoid the associated punishment.

    13. Re:Fixed Penalty by DavidR1991 · · Score: 0

      May I introduce you to "Application configuration is incorrect" which can occur before any code in the application executes? Yeah: Not so fool-proof now, is it? You need some level of fundamental trust in your users' ability to (manually) report flaws

    14. Re:Fixed Penalty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem is that they're wasting their own time by skipping through the error messages. That wasted 15 minutes on their part is small compared to the total amount of time they're probably wasted because they just click whatever gets them to the next screen.

    15. Re:Fixed Penalty by BitZtream · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      In my IT department we had a word for people like you.

      Dickheads who deserve to be fired for doing exactly the opposite of what their job is.

      Your job ... is to make the software work so they can use it. Your job, is to translate what users tell you into something useful. Your job, is to help the users get their jobs done.

      The INSTANT you start doing ANYTHING to make them LESS efficient, even short term, your ass would be fired so fast you wouldn't realize it happened.

      You don't deserve to have the job since you clearly aren't willing to do it.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    16. Re:Fixed Penalty by Static · · Score: 1

      Actually, a lot of (non-IT) workers just want to get their work done and an enforced 15-minute break is unwelcome and unnerving. Especially when it's because they demonstrably did something stupid.

      I agree that IT's job is as you say, but it's not a one-way street. For end-users who won't take responsibility for their mistakes, it is unreasonable for IT accomodate that.

  18. Java errors vomitted out in a dialog box.... by Smidge207 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ...are the worst evil ever unleashed on support analysts. There's nothing more fun than your average dead-ender mindlessly reading eighteen Java bomb strings and ending with "so that's the problem." Why not just display a skull and crossbones image? It'd probably save some time.

    --
    Is it just my observation, or is eldavojohn an idiot?
    1. Re:Java errors vomitted out in a dialog box.... by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 2, Funny

      Why not just display a skull and crossbones image? It'd probably save some time.

      Indeed, that'll save lots of time:
      User: Help, I get an error message
      Support person: What does it say?
      User: I dunno. It's just a piraty thingy. Skull & crossbones...
      Support person: Well, if you get that, fix the problem
      User: But how should I fix it?
      Support person: I dunno. Maybe put on an eye-patch, take your sword, and wave it around to scare the problem away. Have a nice day.

    2. Re:Java errors vomitted out in a dialog box.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mwahahahahaha! I always ask the users if they threatened the device with harsh language. I tell them it's a solid, proven troubleshooting step.

  19. Asking to much... by dclozier · · Score: 1

    Your expectations for users is to high. Better logging along with an option for the user to click and report the error they just encountered is about the best you could do. The single click should provide you all the information you need rather than expecting the users to fill in a form to complete the information. Of course this is provided that the errors fail gracefully. If this is web related it's best to not be displaying errors to users at all. Better logging is the way to go.

  20. The classic way by BhaKi · · Score: 4, Funny

    Show the message in full screen using a blue background and white foreground. Just like a BSOD.

    --
    The largest prime factor of my UID is 263267.
    1. Re:The classic way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Show the message in full screen using a blue background and white foreground. Just like a BSOD.

      User do not read these either!
      They'll just press the reset button and restart windows...

    2. Re:The classic way by BhaKi · · Score: 1

      But they'll at-least think something panic-worthy happened.

      --
      The largest prime factor of my UID is 263267.
    3. Re:The classic way by The+MAZZTer · · Score: 1

      Hah, even I don't read those anymore. I just curse nVidia and reboot.

    4. Re:The classic way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sucks that you continue to use a video card with problems and won't get it replaced under warranty or get a new one if it's out of warranty and blame the GPU designer instead.

    5. Re:The classic way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you really expect users to read BSOD and report them? They will just reboot.

    6. Re:The classic way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean the same GPU manufacturer that created the drivers for said card?

  21. Available information content... by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Your brown puppy/blue square system works great if there is only a very small number of possible error conditions inventoried in advance. However, this is not what usually happens. Good luck with reproducing Out of memory in /usr/share/wombat/xyz/abc.php line 515 as a pretty picture or as a an extra smelly fart.

    Users have already trouble copy-pasting error message text into a mail (or reading it aloud on the phone), so how the hell are they going to do it with a sound or a smell? Well, the sound, they could still record it, and attach the recording to the mail, but you can be sure that the recording will be spoiled by the perp's coworker loudly sneezing or coughing midway through. After all, lusers are not afraid of sending in screenshots of error messages half-hidden by other windows either.

    No, I think the problem is not the messages (textual messages should be the easiest to deal with, especially when asking for support via mail), but rather the users. And to fix those, you just need a baseball bat...

    1. Re:Available information content... by ProppaT · · Score: 1

      I agree, if you have a finite and reasonable number of possible errors, the puppy/colored box idea should work great as long as each different error icon is unique enough (i.e., a puppy icon and a kitten icon would be fine, but I would avoid different types of puppies...the user will remember they saw a puppy, not necessarily what type of puppy).

      Other possible ideas would be to just assign a number to your error and make it flash. Flashing gives a sense of urgency and, as long as your list of typical errors is small, the user should be able to recall a flashing number. If you get into the hundreds, this might not work so well.

      --
      Wise men say, "Forgiveness is divine, but never pay full price for late pizza."
    2. Re:Available information content... by cxx · · Score: 0

      Other possible ideas would be to just assign a number to your error and make it flash. Flashing gives a sense of urgency and, as long as your list of typical errors is small, the user should be able to recall a flashing number. If you get into the hundreds, this might not work so well.

      Oh, please no! Flashing is annoying and will only make them close the window faster, if anything. If it's that important that the user remember something, it should be written to some log (hmmm ... are there any OS's anymore that don't have a logging capability?)

    3. Re:Available information content... by rawler · · Score: 1

      This is a great example of the problem.

      This specific error should really not be written out like that at all, but the program should be written in a way that expects that things can go wrong, and that the user don't really care WHAT went wrong, but only how/if they can fix it.

      Instead of expecting your user to care about the actual error, (they REALLY don't care about the file and line where it happened) you should,
      1) Design your program in a way that supports hard or soft atomic "operations". (This is a good approach for many failure-scenarios in general.)
      2) Undo the atomic operation that led up to the problem and show the user a "Your computer does not have enough memory for this; Things you can try; X..Y..Z...".
      3) It's definitely a good idea to combine the "OOMException"-handler with some memorable picture giving a psychological identity to the problem. This allows the user to memorize the problem with the list of possible solutions you presented. (Closing some other program, chopping the Excel document up into smaller pieces, whatever worked the last time). The next time the same error appears (no-matter what source-line) they don't really have to carefully read all the info, just try what usually works for that "bursting box thingy".
      4) Then there may be a small text or icon hinting "developer information", should a user ask someone who's actually interested.

      Thinking about it, perhaps one thing missing for useful error dialogs, is libraries of common error-dialogs, just as we reuse libraries for most other non-app-specific part of the application? All the common user-dialogs for OOM, Printing, Harddrive-failure, Network-failure, etc could be there? A NullPointerException could be a generic "oh, developer made a dodo"-dialog with a single button "blame him" feeding stacktraces and memdumps directly to a datamining-facility where developers can find their most common Nullpointers and similar.

    4. Re:Available information content... by hot+soldering+iron · · Score: 1

      If you REALLY want users to read the error messages, go ahead and attach a photo for each KIND of error, then overlay the photo with specific text. Just make the images some kind of PORN, with "CALL ME @ "error number. They will most assuredly remember the photo, and how to duplicate the error that brought it up, too!

      --
      When you want something built, come see me. If you want correct grammar and spelling, get a F*ing liberal arts student.
    5. Re:Available information content... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just look at any dictionary--the number of possible errors covered by a unique picture is literally in the thousands. And "Red Puppy" is distinct from "Blue Puppy" is distinct from "Purple puppy that flashes yellow." I like that idea. Combine it with a little line at the bottom of the error message saying "To dismiss this annoying popup, press the following key(s): ". Who needs buttons anyway.

    6. Re:Available information content... by dcam · · Score: 1

      If this is a website, any error should trigger an email log of the error and attendant information (get, post, headers, session, application etc) to a nominated (and configurable email address). In addition if the language supports it, a call stack.

      What you display that to the user is something else entirely.

      --
      meh
  22. Similar setup as me. by B5_geek · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I had done something very similar, but I kept it very simple for troubleshooting.
    3 colours: red, amber, green
    3 shapes: circle, square, triangle

    Another idea I was toying with was to substitute traffic signs: ie. stop, yield, caution, etc.. but I found that people are used to ignoring those.

    With my setup, it gave me 9 distinct error levels (more if I used them in combination), but 9 was good enough for me to track down most problems.
    Shapes:
    Circle - Bad Input (i.e. data field entry)
    Square - Bad Output (i.e. printer jam)
    Triangle - Back-end (db/php/html, etc..)
    Red, amber, Green = error levels

    --
    "The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." ~Plato (427-347 BC)
    1. Re:Similar setup as me. by The+MAZZTer · · Score: 4, Funny

      Another idea I was toying with was to substitute traffic signs: ie. stop, yield, caution, etc.. but I found that people are used to ignoring those.

      This explains some driving I see on the roads...

    2. Re:Similar setup as me. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      First in mouth - Bad Input (i.e. data field entry)
      First in ass - Bad Output (i.e. printer jam)
      First in ass - Back-end (db/php/html, etc..)
      Amber, Brown, Red = error levels

    3. Re:Similar setup as me. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was toying with was to substitute traffic signs: ie. stop, yield, caution, etc.. but I found that people are used to ignoring those

      Ah, yes the trained response to traffic lights green = go, amber = go faster, red = get out of my way fsckers!

    4. Re:Similar setup as me. by yurik · · Score: 2, Interesting

      There is a similar approach I once heard: Use 4 well-defined icons to encode any 32-bit value. You would only need 256 distinct icons to have a complete coverage. Remembering 4 icons like that is fairly easy. Plus if your application only uses 256 or 65K errors, you can reduce the number of icons to 1-2.

    5. Re:Similar setup as me. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I had done something very similar, but I kept it very simple for troubleshooting.
      3 colours: red, amber, green
      3 shapes: circle, square, triangle

      Another idea I was toying with was to substitute traffic signs: ie. stop, yield, caution, etc.. but I found that people are used to ignoring those.

      With my setup, it gave me 9 distinct error levels (more if I used them in combination), but 9 was good enough for me to track down most problems.
      Shapes:
      Circle - Bad Input (i.e. data field entry)
      Square - Bad Output (i.e. printer jam)
      Triangle - Back-end (db/php/html, etc..)
      Red, amber, Green = error levels

      Great idea, until you think about how the users themselves are the problem. 10% of males are color blind.

    6. Re:Similar setup as me. by ArundelCastle · · Score: 1

      It sounds like you and OP have the right idea. But please don't forget that ~8% of men and ~0.6% of women are colour blind, and there is more than one type of colour loss. Always distinguish unique colours with a unique shape (or pattern). Just like traffic signs.

      http://www.iamcal.com/toys/colors/whatis.php
      http://www.stcsig.org/usability/topics/colorblind.html

    7. Re:Similar setup as me. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Red and green are lousy colors to choose, roughly 10% of adult males are red/green colorblind. Switch green to blue.

    8. Re:Similar setup as me. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A wonderful system with colorblind users. Pick colors that differentiate. If you get the answear blue or purple, you know that it is the one of blue and purple that you use.

    9. Re:Similar setup as me. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And the color blind are just SOL???

  23. Electric Shock v2.0 by bytethese · · Score: 3, Funny

    We also had the same issue at first, my apologies for not clarifying. Our version 2.0 system includes a small amount of absorbent material woven into teh seat bottom that can hold 50X it's weight in liquid. We now call the system the Electric Shock Wow system.

    1. Re:Electric Shock v2.0 by zoloto · · Score: 1

      I hope it's not an impedance to your plan.

    2. Re:Electric Shock v2.0 by rdavidson3 · · Score: 1

      Our version 2.0 system includes a small amount of absorbent material woven into teh seat bottom that can hold 50X it's weight in liquid.

      We've moved onto version 2.1 where the absorbent material was replaced with a catheter.

    3. Re:Electric Shock v2.0 by Architect_sasyr · · Score: 1

      2.1? We moved to 2.2 AGES ago. Having the barbed wire lacing the catheter was really an ingenious marketing department idea, and is amazingly therapeutic to the helldesk staff.

      --
      Me failed English...
      FreeBSD over Linux. If my comments seem odd, this may explain...
    4. Re:Electric Shock v2.0 by rdavidson3 · · Score: 1

      I heard good things about that version too.

      Didn't they electrify the barbed wire too? I also heard that the help desk has a "big red shiny button" that controls it.

  24. Wow... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A bit bitter about the ID-10-Ts on the keyboards, perhaps?
    This is why I think the world should be more dangerous... with the dangers clearly marked by logical but confusingly obfuscated signs.
    Give schoolmarm evolution some help.

  25. Go with what's known to work by sjonke · · Score: 2, Funny

    Tell them that reading the message will enlarge their penis... which isn't too hard to achieve anyway.

    --
    --- What?
    1. Re:Go with what's known to work by chrysrobyn · · Score: 1

      Clever. Then you can ask what porn star(s) were on the screen at the time.

    2. Re:Go with what's known to work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except in the case of the female users...

    3. Re:Go with what's known to work by rrohbeck · · Score: 1

      Just don't use red squares and blue triangles, but various parts of the human anatomy.
      They'd just have to enter gender (and sexual orientation) first so the program can select some memorable pics.

      "Hey, I got the 'three large boobs' error!"

      Another beneficial effect would be that the users would quickly learn how to reproduce the errors.

  26. This is a sore subject with me because it's true.. by ip_freely_2000 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    In the late 90's our startup had HP as a customer for a new on-line product. One day, about six months after they had become a customer, we get a call saying our product does not work. At the end of a SIX HOUR support call, I got on a plane for a cross-country flight because we just could not duplicate or figure out the problem. At 7:00 AM that morning I arrive, and at about 7:03 AM had the problem figured out. HP had recently made a change to their nework removing the browser ID string when employees were surfing the net. Our product needed that information for some processing. Even though the error message was CLEARLY being displayed, not once in the previous day's support call did this get mentioned. "Oh, that happens all the time, it happens with all sorts of applications, so we just ignore it." We had a fix in place by 10 AM and I was back on a cross country flight that afternoon. All because the customer ignored an error message.

  27. Put the error in the form of a Joke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Worker Drones love to open attachments and read jokes. Use this to your advantage and profit.

    captcha: formats

    1. Re:Put the error in the form of a Joke by bb5ch39t · · Score: 1

      Ah, no! Present all messages in Haiku format only. Or make the default button automatically link to the H.R. site and submit a resignation.

  28. Users are too impatient to read by TUOggy · · Score: 1
    People will never read their error messages. You can make the windows as irritating as possible by forcing them to wait 3 seconds before they can press OK, but they'll just sit there and rapidly click on the grayed out OK button until it becomes available. If you really want to see the text of an error message, force a screenshot when an error occurs. Then you can see not only what the error was, but also how much other crap they're doing that they're not supposed to be doing. Between that and the logs, you should be good.

    Or you could have them enter a unique code before allowing the OK button to be pressed. That way they have to call TS to get the code. That would guarantee that you would get the message. The problem is that you would get so many extra calls that you wouldn't be able to do anything else.

    1. Re:Users are too impatient to read by Theaetetus · · Score: 1

      People will never read their error messages.

      I once made a tutorial for a program that was being used at my company, and included screenshots of common error dialogs, with captions saying "EXAMPLE ERROR DIALOG" and bright red 24-point type "EXAMPLE" across the screenshot at an angle.
      And still, at least half of the users would try to click on the okay or cancel button in the tutorial and then complain their computers were broken.

    2. Re:Users are too impatient to read by porges · · Score: 1

      The word "example" does not mean "non-functioning". Even when printed at an angle across the image.

  29. FTFY by jalefkowit · · Score: 5, Funny

    Dear Slashdot,

    I am filled with a black, unutterable contempt for the troglodytic users of my application. Can you suggest ways to translate this contempt into software?

    1. Re:FTFY by Spad · · Score: 2, Funny

      So *you're* responsible for Windows ME.

    2. Re:FTFY by __aagbwg300 · · Score: 1

      Can you suggest ways to translate this contempt into software?

      Release your product for Vista.

    3. Re:FTFY by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 1

      Write it for OS/2.

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    4. Re:FTFY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Emacs or Vi :)

    5. Re:FTFY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This has already been done. The software is called Windows.

  30. If clicking the OK box makes the error go away... by 91degrees · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's not an error. Errors prevent you from continuing. The only thing approaching an error is the little box telling you there's a problem. That is solved by the user clicking "OK".

    The entire way errors are handled is wrong. I don't know what the solution is but I very much doubt it's a simple modification to the current fundamentally flawed system.

  31. choices by TheSHAD0W · · Score: 1

    What error does the "women's underwear" icon stand for?

    1. Re:choices by malkavian · · Score: 2, Funny

      Data is pants.

    2. Re:choices by tsergiu · · Score: 1

      My firstborn

    3. Re:choices by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unexpected date

    4. Re:choices by Thud457 · · Score: 1

      is that like suprise sex?

      --

      the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

    5. Re:choices by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1

      Insufficient privileges.

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    6. Re:choices by tool462 · · Score: 1

      Data are pants. Sheesh.

  32. Save your sanity, give up now by snspdaarf · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I have been wondering about this for 30 years. End users are not interested in learning how the computer software works, except for how it lets them do their job. On-screen messages, manuals, fax-back systems, wiki pages, they don't care. What they want is to pick up the phone, make a call, and have someone tell them what to do. At first, I thought it was them being lazy. However, I now think it is closer to why programmers don't like to be interrupted in the middle of a task. The user has a mental model built up of their task, and they don't want to risk losing it while they search for information on an error. Making a phone call, and having someone else walk them through the problem solving means they can maintain their task in "main memory". For them, it is more efficient.

    --
    Why, without your clothes, you're naked, Miss Dudley!
    1. Re:Save your sanity, give up now by Aladrin · · Score: 1

      That's great, and given an infinite amount of money, manpower and time, I'm sure they'd do that.

      However, the reality is that sometimes you have to have your users do some thinking.

      --
      "If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
    2. Re:Save your sanity, give up now by candl · · Score: 1

      "...they memorize a series of buttons to press to get whatever result they want and if anything unexpected happens, they're completely lost."

      Going along with this comments's logic and the quote from the original post, I've found that users can be trained to hit the print screen button when they get a message they don't care about. We've got Printscreen 2000 installed all over the place, which makes it much closer to a one-click solution than the Windows default. They get a screenshot and keep doing what they're doing. I get the error message.

    3. Re:Save your sanity, give up now by malkavian · · Score: 1

      I came to the conclusions that most 'users' out there are actually afraid of computers to a fair degree, not understanding them (and really, not needing to either). While everything works just fine, they're happy and content, and can do what they're paid to efficiently (or not, depending on the person).
      When something breaks, unless a message is very, very gentle, it'll only worsen any mental blocks that may arise through the panic reflex (you say "memory error", and they have no idea how that affects them; is the computer about to burst into flames, is their whole work repository about to vanish, if they press a key, will it break more or fix things and so on).
      Most of the work I put into error schemes is to keep them calm and make sure they're only told stuff that they'd be expected to understand, not what I'd be expected to understand (a small sub-note at the end, or a link to a secondary dialog with support info gives the tech stuff that'd scare them, but I'd understand).
      All that goes towards keeping them focussed, and as you put, keeping things in 'main memory' for their mental task schedulers.

    4. Re:Save your sanity, give up now by rblum · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Honestly? No.

      I don't have to think about error messages, or even actual problems with the tool, when I use a hammer, or a car, or a washing machine. If it's broken, I call a pro and have it fixed, period. (Or, in case of the hammer, I finally give in and buy a good tool, not the $0.99 one from Home Depot ;)

      Same goes for software. That's what IT is for, taking care of software. Yes, I could do it myself - but that is not what I am paid for, that's what they are paid for.

    5. Re:Save your sanity, give up now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I often click through error messages for the reason snapdaart stated (Save your sanity, give up now), I am busy doing my own work. I used to carefully read error messages, but they didn't mean anything to me, an end user. My suggestion is to write clear and meaningful error messages with steps on how to correct the situation. Some programs write clear error messages, such as "Out of paper," or "Paper jam." Actually, no other clearly written messages come to mind.

      In addition, I hate error messages that do not go away. For example, the "memory error at @##$%% - string of meaningless letters and numbers" message in Windows; once you hit OK, the message keeps re-appearing. I have to reboot the computer and I have to reboot during the second after I hit OK and before the next error message appears. Who thought that was a good idea?

      We computer users are fast learners. We have learned that error messages are useless, meaningless, and most of time, dismissable. We have learned to ignore them for our sanity.

    6. Re:Save your sanity, give up now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      No kidding.

      I'm an end user, not a programmer. When the stuff I work on breaks, I get called and someone gives a vague description of what they want me to think they were doing when things broke and a demand that things be fixed -- and that's often a lot more expensive and time consuming that recompiling. The error messages my equipment sends to the user: the machine stops, maybe makes a grinding noise or some other weird sound and hopefully shuts off before the smoke escapes. My equipment can't send me an email, can't keep a log file - except for metal shavings and other forensics. And some keyboard puncher whose equipment can send them an email, can keep a log file, wants me to keep track of their error messages for their project for them so they can troubleshoot it better? WTF?

    7. Re:Save your sanity, give up now by TiggsPanther · · Score: 1

      What they want is to pick up the phone, make a call, and have someone tell them what to do.

      Which is fine and understandable. Annoying at times, but fine and understandable. What isn't fine, however, is how often they then call asking for support after dismissing the error message.
      It's when people say "The program crashed and there was an error message, so I dismissed it and restarted. What went wrong?" And they have no idea what was in the error message, and don't seem to get that they sorta help me troubleshoot what the problem might have been.

      On the flip-side, I've known some users who will actually pass on the error message. Whether by email, screenshot, post-in-note or even just leaving it on the screen and asking if I could have a look.
      They may not be interested in how it works or what actually went wrong, but at least they realise that those annoying little messages might actually help a techie get them up and working faster.

      --
      Tiggs
      "120 chars should be enough for everyone..."
    8. Re:Save your sanity, give up now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know the sort of user you're talking about, but just as common are the "genius cowboys". They're the users who will completely ignore errors ("Warning: No such file or directory? The idiot programmer doesn't know his job!"), or if faced with something that stops them working, soldiers through "fixing" the problem (read: making it worse) until they finally have to call support ("If only they'd give me permission, I could fix this myself!"). Making errors fluffy and kind will only bolster these "genius cowboys". It'll prove that the programmer is underestimating them, and that all the errors are intended for non-technical types, which obviously precludes them.

      Personally, I much prefer to deal with 'Panicky Pete' than 'Sheriff Einstein'. Pete never compounds the error, and he's usually pretty complicit in following your exact instructions - which actually suits him, since he prefers someone else to be in control, and suits you, because the problem is getting fixed (instead of exacerbated whilst being told you don't know your job).

    9. Re:Save your sanity, give up now by EvilNTUser · · Score: 1

      You're going to spend an awful lot of money on professional help if you call for service every time your washing machine's filter gets clogged, your hammer gets greasy, or your new car's knobs are in different places.

      Somehow, we're expected to handle all of those alone, but god forbid your monitor's cable detaches, your browser slows down due to 10 "helpful" toolbars you installed, or your IT department wants to get a new office suite. Then we're all endlessly lectured about how not everyone can be a programmer.

      People will never learn if we keep making excuses for their behavior just to make them feel better. The cold truth is that anyone with basic intelligence should be able to cope with my examples, but they don't, because social reinforcement tells them it's ok to not use your brain when dealing with computers.

      --
      My Sig: SEGV
    10. Re:Save your sanity, give up now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I don't have to think about error messages, or even actual problems with the tool, when I use a hammer, or a car, or a washing machine.

      Sure you do. The error messages are the strange grinding noises or obvious physical defects which you report to the professional technician to get it fixed. We're talking about cases like where the hammer breaks in half and the conversation goes like this:

      Handyman: "Is the hammer still in one piece?"

      User, holding the separated head and handle in separate hands: "Yes."

      Or this situation:

      Mechanic: "Is your car making any funny noises?"

      Car: "GRIND GRIND GRIND GRIND CLANK SPLAT"

      User: "No."

    11. Re:Save your sanity, give up now by DwySteve · · Score: 1

      What isn't fine, however, is how often they then call asking for support after dismissing the error message.

      Sadly, they're justified. How many 'error messages' do you get, click through and you can still do what you wanted to do? The users have more to gain from just trying to click it to go away than they do stopping, waiting for IT support on hold, reading the error, trying to keep their work from being erased and fixing the error at the same. Users just want to work and there's a good chance they'll be able to do that if they just click OK.

      Moral of the story? I'd say

      1. Data is key. If there is an 'error' that has the ability to cause lost work, make sure that as part of an error process all open files are saved with a different extension (ie, Really Important Letter.doc.crash)
      2. Don't bother the user if it's not important. If they can still do their work after swatting away dialogs like flies then they will swat away dialogs like flies. Because they just want to get their work done.
      3. If the error is important enough that they can't get their work done, the error had damn well better not run until the problem is fixed. Otherwise you'll have people using a potentially unstable program, wasting their time and possibly their data.
      --
      http://angryee.blogspot.com
    12. Re:Save your sanity, give up now by westlake · · Score: 1

      What they want is to pick up the phone, make a call, and have someone tell them what to do. At first, I thought it was them being lazy. However, I now think it is closer to why programmers don't like to be interrupted in the middle of a task.

      The task in progress is what has their supervisors breathing down their neck to complete.

      That is why you are on one side of the help desk and they are on the other.

    13. Re:Save your sanity, give up now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sadly, they're justified. How many 'error messages' do you get, click through and you can still do what you wanted to do? The users have more to gain from just trying to click it to go away than they do stopping, waiting for IT support on hold, reading the error, trying to keep their work from being erased and fixing the error at the same. Users just want to work and there's a good chance they'll be able to do that if they just click OK.

      Justified in clicking through, perhaps. However, they need to acknowledge that it is a tradeoff they are making: tech support will not recognize a problem which is described only as "as error message appeared." Perhaps the only way some users will realize this is by hearing in response, "We know of 13,529 [or whatever large number it happens to be] situations that cause an error messages. The only way for us to narrow it down is for you to tell us what the error message said."

      If there is an 'error' that has the ability to cause lost work, make sure that as part of an error process all open files are saved with a different extension (ie, Really Important Letter.doc.crash)

      This is a valuable feature, but it's only an option if you (or your organization) are the developer of the software.

    14. Re:Save your sanity, give up now by natehoy · · Score: 1

      Sure you do, you just don't recognize it because you're familiar with the tool and are convinced that you know all the solutions that are available to you already.

      If you use a hammer and something goes wrong, it will throw a message "BENT NAIL". As an experienced hammer user, you can isolate the root cause and fix it yourself. You still identify the problem ("hammer has rounded tip, replace hammer", as opposed to "incorrect nail type - replace nail and try again" or "your swing is off, adjust your grip and try again").

      As an inexperienced user, you seek help in fixing the problem. You call the helpdesk (usually the closest experienced carpenter). They look up from their task briefly and explain that you tap the nail on the side to straighten it out (or pull the nail and replace it if the error is fatal) and try again. Congratulations - you've just learned your first workaround and made your first Level 1 support call. You tap the nail on the side to straighten it out, and hit it again, and it goes in. Or not.

      If this happens repeatedly, you ask again. Your "helpdesk" realizes that the workaround isn't enough, and goes to Level 2. He looks at the hammer, the nails, the material you are hammering, and makes an analysis. Maybe it's rounded off from use, or was a cheap crappy hammer that was never properly ground. Maybe you aren't holding the hammer properly. Maybe the nails are too soft for the materials. They help you work through the problem. They may help make it go away permanently by helping you choose the proper nails for the job, fixing your swing, and getting you a good quality hammer. Then you can do your job only encountering "BENT NAIL" less frequently, and when you do you know how to get around it and finish the job. This may continue for a few iterations until you learn the common causes for the error, and how to resolve them.

      This is the same level of expertise that most people approach computer errors. They don't know what causes the error, but the helpdesk is there to identify the cause of the problem, get them around it by escalating the call until someone knows how to get the user moving again, and help identify any faults in the software that may be causing it.

      --
      "This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
  33. Anything but sounds, and error logging by Wrexs0ul · · Score: 1

    I've been down that road. It's a good idea until you have a hundred people calling-in trying to hum the error to you. What's worse is you can't debug because they're tone-deaf :)

    Seriously though, it sounds like you want a system that can record the error for your debugging purposes later-on without the user needing to remember a number of color. Why not just log the error in a system file, or better yet have it send a quick message to a central logger/email that you can check? Then you can be as technical with the data as needed and know the entirety of a problem before they call for a blue square.

    Also, for self-debugging make sure you keep reported errors to simple, broad categories, ie: blue = file error, yellow = network error, etc.. The barrier for calling you with errors is when a phone call is less effort than thinking for themselves, and while there'll always be a group who aren't capable of the latter there'll be an equal number who can associate yellow with "unplugged network cable". This applies to sending people to help files as well, they won't look if it's easier to call you so it's a wasted popup.

    Hope this helps,

    -Matt

    --
    --- Need web hosting?
    1. Re:Anything but sounds, and error logging by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 1

      and while there'll always be a group who aren't capable of the latter there'll be an equal number who can associate yellow with "unplugged network cable".

      Maybe, but I'm sure that the number of people who can associate yellow with "unplugged network cable" would still be lower than the number of people who can associate "network communications timeout" with "unplugged network cable".

      A good error message needs to fulfil two goals:

      1. Make it easy for the user to figure out himself what he can do about the problem (where this is possible) => minimize number of support calls
      2. In case where the user needs outside help, make it easy to communicate the message faithfully to support => make those support calls that are still needed as short and efficient as possible

      The proposed yellow square/blue circle messages only addresses point 2. Without giving any chance to the user to accomplish 1. Did we already lose so much faith in our users that we believe that they are completely incapable of solving any issue themselves, that we don't even try to give them the info they need?

      An error message should not only be easy to read, but also easy to understand. The yellow square/blue circle method achieves neither.

  34. Get rid of the time rush that works are under as s by Joe+The+Dragon · · Score: 1

    Get rid of the time rush that works are under as some people may try to just get around the error so they don't have to wait on hold / go though all the level 1 stuff like reboot your system / and other stuff that do not get to what the error is.

  35. Don't try to change user behaviour. by Rennt · · Score: 1

    Take a deep breath and remember that if users were savy enough to read and understand error messages - well, what would they need you for? You are there to make their jobs easier, not the other way around.

    1. Re:Don't try to change user behaviour. by BVis · · Score: 1

      OP isn't suggesting that the users understand the errors, just that they read them and remember the words so that the help desk can assist them. Anyone with a third-grade education should be able (and expected) to do this.

      I've done desktop support. The only thing I really took away from it is that people are stupid until forced to be otherwise. The only solution I ever came up with was this: Get the CEO/head honcho/big cheese on board. Explain to him/her that support can only work with the users' help, otherwise they're wasting money. Establish a policy thus: When you call the help desk, if you do not have the error message you received, you will be directed to call back when the error occurs again. Allow for an alternate method of assistance (ticket/email/so forth) but if they want to speak to someone on the phone, they need to be ready to help themselves.

      Of course what will happen here is that the users will stop calling, and then complain that the help desk doesn't do anything to help them. At that point, you can point at the fact that they were never contacted in the first place (because all calls/tickets/emails are logged.) Eventually the users should realize that they can't do their jobs without the help desk's support, and they'll start playing by the rules, or get fired for incompetence.

      This is why you need the CEO on board, and probably will need a few people to be fired over it before things start changing.

      These are, of course, drastic measures, but considering the drastically bad level of staffing/support that help desks receive today,they seem appropriate.

      --
      Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
  36. Not the users fault. by sunking2 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Stop pushing the inadequacies of the program on the users. If you come across the error, then log it. Why are you relying on a person to sit there and read back to you something that could just as easily be written to a file that they could send to you or read directly.

    1. Re:Not the users fault. by RKThoadan · · Score: 1

      We are talking about users trying to get their job done here, not beta testers trying to help find bugs who can just do something else when it crashes on them. Presumably the user is trying to do the job and if the program doesn't work they can't work. Unless you're monitoring the logfile constantly and can quickly identify which user it is and figure out their phone number and call them immediately it's best to have the user call so you can get them back to working quickly.

    2. Re:Not the users fault. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Its a hell of alot easier for some users to read an error outloud, then to find a log file in some little hidden directory..... Ive been tutoring kids at my community college in office 07 and stuff like that.. I had a 25 year old the other day who did not have any clue on how to print.. PRINT.. USERS are STUPID (in general) I had another one who was trying to install windows software on his mac.. saying the entire time.. it worked on my last computer why doest it work on this one.. CAUSE YOUR LAST COMPUTER WASNT A MAC RETARD!!!.. USERS ARE FUCKING STUPID.. its best not to even let them know a file system exsists... If we make the eintire world dummy proof then all we will have left are dummies, and i for one dont want my users getting stupider.

    3. Re:Not the users fault. by sunking2 · · Score: 1

      Presumably the user has already clicked through any cryptic (or concise for that matter) error messages anyway so the data should have been collected along with any tracing that is needed. Should the users also remember the exact sequence of the last 15 commands and what appeared on the screen to recite back? This guy is asking for ways to make the users remember what his silly error messages were. Not their job. Anything worth putting on the screen is worth logging. Log files are easily read back or emailed. You shouldn't rely on memory.

    4. Re:Not the users fault. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly - log all errors, let the user know there was a problem.

    5. Re:Not the users fault. by natehoy · · Score: 1

      I think you miss the point.

      Our application logs all on-screen messages and errors in a database. When Jane from Accounting calls and says she got an error message, she doesn't need to read anything to me. All I need to know is her username and approximately what time she had the error.

      I look up the error logs and find her message, along with a core dump of the application containing the entire contents of memory, every variable, every table, every column, every program in the stack, the job logs, everything. If necessary, I can use that information to reconstruct the database journals and see what records in what files were changed by that job and reconstruct the flow path of the job. It rarely comes to that, but I can.

      The user still calls me (not all errors are fatal, and users can frequently fix the bad data they entered if that's the problem and move on). But when they do call, they don't need to read anything to me. They just need to tell me who they are and how long ago they had the problem. I can then focus on asking them about events that led up to the error.

      If I'm interested, I can go and look at the errors our users are ignoring or working around. It allows me to see trends where some division may have changed a procedure and are now working around some control I have out there that is either not relevant or an indication that their new workaround will cause big problems later.

      I've worked for companies that have had a large "Global Error Repository" where all systems collect this kind of data and send it all to a central collection point. Occasionally, that sort of data comes in really handy. "Yup, the inventory feed to the West Coast warehouse died because someone entered a -1 into the quantity for a location in the Northeast Warehouse system and worked around a warning error on it, better go change the control on that screen to make sure all the numbers are positive from a warning to a hard error!"

      --
      "This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
    6. Re:Not the users fault. by KiwiSurfer · · Score: 1

      What if the tech support can't access the log file? Say, for example, the user forgot to connect his machine to the network. In that case the tech support would be unable to access the user's machine to read the log! At the end of the day the user (like it or not) has to take responsibility for doing their bit.

  37. A good plot by CodeHog · · Score: 4, Funny

    The error message has to have a good plot and some character development. Pull the users in with that and then get the error message across. Ok, seriously, as a writer of error messages at times, I have found putting in 'interesting' wording works sometimes with some of the more intelligent users. Unfortunately, there will always be the ones that just want someone else to do their work. I suggest that they be burned because they're witches.

    --
    Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son.
    1. Re:A good plot by Bossk-Office · · Score: 1

      "The ones that just want someone else to do their work" ... I would suggest that IT support is not really the users' work, after all.

    2. Re:A good plot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    3. Re:A good plot by CodeHog · · Score: 1

      Ah, bad word usage on my part. By work, I mean actually reading the error message and determining if it's a problem or not. For example, one app I built compiles text into an XML file that is used by another application to build the final product. Users can enter data that may not compile correctly but can still be used in the final build. The error message states this but users will still call and say they don't know what to do. I usually suggest reading the error message. I guess it's more of a warning. And there are the ones that say, could you just finish up the thing I was working on for me instead of fixing the application?

      --
      Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son.
    4. Re:A good plot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But that's not their work. Their work is the things they were trying to do with the computer as a tool before getting interrupted. That's the thing. To you, a computer may be the center of what you do. To them, it's just a tool.

    5. Re:A good plot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you say in the first chapter that there is an Exception, in the second or third chapter it absolutely must be thrown.

    6. Re:A good plot by infinite9 · · Score: 1

      The error message has to have a good plot and some character development.

      Clue: It was Mr Raid, in the Server Room, with the Disk Error.

      --
      Disconnect your television. Do your own research. Draw your own conclusions. They're probably lying. Don't be a sheep.
  38. They have no vested interest in the outcome. by maillemaker · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Every day I have to fire up a Microsoft Access database program to clock in.

    Every day the first thing it does is pop up a dialog box that says something like, "Only run this if you trust it".

    I just hit OK.

    It's not my problem if it works right or not.

    --
    A work that expires before its copyright never enters the public domain and thus enjoys eternal copyright protection.
    1. Re:They have no vested interest in the outcome. by crimperman · · Score: 1

      Every day I have to fire up a Microsoft Access database program to clock in.

      Sorry, but after reading that far I couldn't see the rest through the tears of laughter. But thanks for brightening up my Monday.

    2. Re:They have no vested interest in the outcome. by ImprovOmega · · Score: 1

      Every day I have to fire up a Microsoft Access database program to clock in.

      Sorry, but after reading that far I couldn't see the rest through the tears of laughter. But thanks for brightening up my Monday.

      Yeah. If we had a time management system based on an Access database, I would be clocked in every day from now until 2050 without ever having to run the program a second time.

    3. Re:They have no vested interest in the outcome. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not my problem if it works right or not.

      It is if you don't get paid.

  39. a risk based approach by ThaReetLad · · Score: 2, Funny

    a risk based approach is required, so that users know that occasionally a message box will appear that will have serious negative consequences if they fail to take the correct action.

    For example "If you don't turn around right now I'm going to smack you over the head with a baseball bat" [OK]

    --
    You can't win Darth. If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine
  40. Guru Meditation by mrybczyn · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Amiga had this right. Use a little humor with your messages, it may diffuse the anger and get some sympathy.

    1. Re:Guru Meditation by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 1

      Oh yea, that works. I was diddling in screen once and I tried to resume a session, and the whole application crashed with the following error:

      "The dungeon collapses. You die."

      Yea, I get it. Good old Zork. But not when I'm trying to fucking work.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    2. Re:Guru Meditation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, it was more than that. If a process wasn't doing anything, or you got an AmigaDOS error displayed at the top of the window, you just typed "WHY". It would then use the FAULT command to dig up the reason for error ###, or why the process was stuck. Ferinstance...

      >FORMAT DF0: NAME wombat
        ERROR 214, can't continue...
      >WHY
        ERROR 214, Disk is write-protected

      Now, the Guru was actually a step backwards, as it displayed something like:
        Guru Meditation, C1000086 : 81000004 (in red)
      with NO OS-level command to decipher it. Later, the Public Domain solved that with commands that you could just plop into your C: directory that would do this for you (see Fred Fish or AmiNet), if you didn't feel like flipping through your Abacus AmigaDOS Quick Ref. Guide.

  41. Make them retype it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Add an input field on the error message that makes them type the text of the error (or the key bits, anyway) before they are allowed to dismess it.

    1. Re:Make them retype it by Explodicle · · Score: 1

      Wow, I would run to your competition as fast as I possibly could.

  42. Waterboarding by drolli · · Score: 1

    I guess after you waterboard them for several hours when they dont tell you the error message, maybe they start to read it. However i have doubts about it. My experience rather says that when the secretary says "i could access the webpage which you mentioned about without problems" it means "yes, i also clicked away the warning about the missing certificate".

    1. Re:Waterboarding by rblum · · Score: 1

      And why wouldn't she?

      To a "normal" person, the "certificate" has no meaning. And all browsers couch the message in PC speak - "this *may* be an invalid certificate", etc. Which, to a user, means "sure, it may, but I always go here and it's safe".

      If you want users to stop browsing there, three things need to happen:

      * Browsers need a "safe" mode, on by default, that flat-out doesn't let you browse to those sites. No warning, no buts, no "Are you sure" dialogs. Just say no.
      * If people *need* to get there, give them some training on security issues and then take of the safety measures slowly.
      * IT departments need to stop cranking out their own internal certificates, or at least they need to update the CA list for users. God damn it, I don't want to see a certificate warning for internal sites.

    2. Re:Waterboarding by drolli · · Score: 1

      Yes. This happened while i tried to figure out if a certain part of our IT deparment - if it deserves that name - rolled out its internal CA. The funny thing is that i described the how the warning would look like and she still said "there was nothing". I later found out that their way of "rolling it out" is that you download it from their unceritfied website. That practive pretty much coincided with the fact that they had no mention of any of this in the normal security seminar for the employees.

  43. The best solution... by rclandrum · · Score: 1

    ...is an educated customer with which your technical support people can converse in an intelligent manner so they can listen as the user recreates the error by performing the original error-causing actions again.

    Barring any intelligence on the other end, we have had good success with extensive error logs that are either automatically emailed to us or sent by the user to our technical support people. These logs tend to contain brief information that points directly to the offending code - i.e. routine name and even line number if possible, with small variable or data dumps when that would be helpful. This way our developers can see exactly where the error occurs and can either build in some bulletproofing or can backtrack the logic to see where the error originated. Just logging "error 5576" doesn't cut it unless there is only one place in the code where that error occurs and the developers can find it quickly by searching their code.

    This type of log can be generated in cooperation with technical support - i.e. the end user selects a preference that starts logging - or it can simply run all the time and software keeps only the last few days of logs while deleting the older ones.

    Another solution is to use webex - that way you can start a remote session and watch in almost real time as the user works - you can often catch things happening that the user would otherwise not report. This isa big help in rooting out issues where the real problem is user error.

  44. Re:This is a sore subject with me because it's tru by musikit · · Score: 2, Interesting

    i've had this happen to me too. its to the point i log everything and i tell users i will not help them unless they provide a screenshot of the error and a log.

    at that point you either get the screenshot and a log or the user stops using the product. either way support costs goes way down.

  45. You don't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    People can't handle the number and complexity of error situations which most programs unload on them. If you make the error messages more visible (or audible as someone else suggested), the users will only get more annoyed, not more informed. "Check engine". The engine of a car is not something which can be repaired in a few minutes at almost no cost, yet people frequently ignore that message.

    Users will not read error messages. I've talked people through problems with their computers on the phone, repeatedly telling them not to click anywhere without me telling them to, but I still hear click click click-click. "Did you just click on something?" "I always click on that" "What did it say?" "I don't know, it was just a popup."

    The solution is remote desktop software, or, if there is a problem with their network access or some hardware problem which prevents online assistance, on-site service. Users pay for it if it's important to them and if it's not important enough to them to pay for the solution, then it's not worth my time either.

    1. Re:You don't by nelsonal · · Score: 1

      They ignore the check engine light because they know that 99% are caused by a malfunction of a not neccessary (for function of the auto) pollution control system component. How many people ignore a check oil light?

      --
      Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
    2. Re:You don't by StalinsNotDead · · Score: 1

      Heh. The Check Engine light on my last vehicle burned out after 11 years. Then the engine crapped out completely and it wasn't cost effective to repair. Oh well.

      --
      Thanks to the internet, we can now all die alone together! -SomeWoman
  46. Their lips get tired by spywhere · · Score: 5, Funny

    I was the alpha geek on a Help Desk at a multi-state corporation, and the CIO had worked with me as an engineer before getting the job. When people too (self-)important to call the Help Desk had a problem, they would call him directly. He would give them to me, and I would make sure they were kept happy and their issues got resolved.

    One day, after a vice-president had SCREAMED at him because they couldn't log on, he asked me what I had done to fix it.
    I told him that their 'caps lock' had been on.
    He asked, "Doesn't the Windows error message remind users to check that?"

    I told him, "His lips got tired before he read down that far."

    1. Re:Their lips get tired by Aladrin · · Score: 1

      Yesterday, when trying to log into an online account (with the wrong password) I kept getting a 'wrong password. please make sure your caps lock key is off' message. I was typing in all lowercase. It reminded me how stupid error messages can be and how they can make you start to ignore them because of that.

      --
      "If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
    2. Re:Their lips get tired by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This brings up a really good point. Rather than write code to tell the user about the caps lock - which just pops up more shit for people to learn to dismiss, they should treat the caps-lock as unlocked for them. Not sure if it's possible, but they could unlock it for the password, and relock it after - this takes care of all the strange keyboard variants where you may not know how to treat a keypress and "unlocked". Either way, it makes the problem just go away entirely.

    3. Re:Their lips get tired by illuvata · · Score: 2, Informative

      But there is a reason for the caps-lock key. Some people use it whenever they need to type capital letters, especially if they never learned to type with 9 fingers. Now you have a new group who will keep getting password wrong messages.

    4. Re:Their lips get tired by mzs · · Score: 1

      What if your chosen password is in fact all caps? Is that a stupid error message then?

    5. Re:Their lips get tired by Culture20 · · Score: 1

      I kept getting a 'wrong password. please make sure your caps lock key is off' message. I was typing in all lowercase. It reminded me how stupid error messages can be and how they can make you start to ignore them because of that.

      It's better than "I noticed you typed all lowercase letters, and your username is in the system, but you typed the wrong passphrase. You want the one that begins with 'd' and has 19 characters. By the way, you misspelled turkey."

    6. Re:Their lips get tired by satoshi1 · · Score: 1

      Then it's just a reminder!

    7. Re:Their lips get tired by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      No the warning is still correct. You may just as well try to enter a password in uppercase by typing it in holding the shift key. If you do so while capslock is on, you are again entering lower case. The system can not see whether that is the case.

      What I prefer though is those warnings at password prompts that disappear when you switch of caps lock. May be hard to do in a web browser.

    8. Re:Their lips get tired by Ant+P. · · Score: 1
    9. Re:Their lips get tired by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ok, at the risk of sounding stupid, I don't get it. What does "their lips get tired" mean? Tired of what?

  47. the solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Put the error message in a popup window with a background random pic from Sport Illustrated swimsuit edition.

  48. Make error messages that are useful by Geoffrey.landis · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Number one answer would be to make error messages that are actually useful.

    Here's an error I got recently. It's a pretty common error in our SAP* system: "Error Code: -1 Error Desciption: Code: K/101. Error occurred in derivation rule. See long text." (Please note that there is no long text.)

    Here's another recent error message I encountered. Is this helpful?
    You have either entered an invalid Member ID, an invalid PIN, or your User Account is locked. Please validate that you are entering the correct member ID and PIN and try to log in again. "
    Translation: when you did the mandatory password change (required every 90 days), you entered a password that contained the } character. Although the rules say you must include symbol characters, we didn't mean that symbol character.

    And dozens of other equally useless ones.

    --
    *"SAP" is not actually an acronym. It is the word used to describe the customers who have been persuaded to buy this software.

    --
    http://www.geoffreylandis.com
    1. Re:Make error messages that are useful by WeatherServo9 · · Score: 1

      Here's another recent error message I encountered. Is this helpful? You have either entered an invalid Member ID, an invalid PIN, or your User Account is locked. Please validate that you are entering the correct member ID and PIN and try to log in again. " Translation: when you did the mandatory password change (required every 90 days), you entered a password that contained the } character. Although the rules say you must include symbol characters, we didn't mean that symbol character.

      Problem is if the password doesn't fit the required format this should have been caught when the password was changed. When you are logging in and something goes wrong it's generally considered less than ideal for security reasons to provide too much information. For example, if the wrong password is entered and you specifically state that a would be hacker now knows they have found a valid user id. So we will continue to be stuck with potentially vague, only slightly helpful errors when logging in to many sites...

    2. Re:Make error messages that are useful by Quirkz · · Score: 1

      I've suffered through something similar to your second case. There's a bulletin board software out there which doesn't support certain characters in the password. Such as the @ character. Thing is, it TAKES your password just fine. Then it throws out the characters it doesn't like. Your real password is what's left over. I don't even remember what it took to give me the intuitive leap to try typing the password without the @ to see what would happen, but then it let me log in and use the board. Think I reinstalled the software twice first, though. Talk about a waste of time.

    3. Re:Make error messages that are useful by Geoffrey.landis · · Score: 1

      Problem is if the password doesn't fit the required format this should have been caught when the password was changed.

      Yeah, ya think?

      --
      http://www.geoffreylandis.com
    4. Re:Make error messages that are useful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What *really* bothers me is that, not only do I know what that first one means, I know how to fix it....

  49. The way out of this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Again and again it seems that the best option would be to find out what a firm with staff lacking opposable thumbs and with an inability to read does to afford your fee. Then copy the business model using staff that can hold a fork and read at the same time. It would seem that the bar is not very high. Profit.

  50. Screen Shot? by Fear13ss · · Score: 1

    I have roughly 50 users I support, of varying technical capacity. Yet 99% of them are completely comfortable capturing screen images of items they are unsure of. I suggest installing a simple to use print screen utility. My personal favorite for ease of use is FastStone Capture, which would require licensing, but it allows them to quickly capture part or all of the screen and attach it to an email in a few simple clicks. Since the error itself is almost more valuable then the log data, it could be relatively easy to justify the cost. It also may be beneficial to any users that update business processes or other documentation with screenshots. Hope that helps, and good luck. I'll be keeping an eye on the thread to see if anyone else has any great suggestions.

    1. Re:Screen Shot? by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      I have roughly 50 users I support, of varying technical capacity. Yet 99% of them are

      So, everybody's competent except the one with multiple personality disorder?

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  51. Distill them by cgenman · · Score: 5, Interesting

    As a game designer, and sometime game UI designer, I feel your pain.

    The best way to get people to read your error messages is to have very few of them. People just tune them out. If you're tossing up error messages for things like synchronizing to network shares before the user really needs to, or connecting to 3rd party tools that the individual tool can handle the error for, cut those. They'll get to those errors later anyway, or the problem will be fixed by then. The only error messages should happen when it is impossible to do what the user asked.

    The ones that you do have should be 7 words or less, and should be both meaningful and in plain english (even for engineers). "Uninitialized Data" is technobabble, and "It Didn't Work" doesn't tell you anything. "Couldn't connect to the mail server" is much better, as it tells the user exactly what was wrong, but within a small enough space that by glancing at the textbox the user has already read it.

    Icons are most likely going to confuse your users unless they directly relate to the error at hand. "Warning: Trojan Detected [panda kicking a soccer ball]" might be cute, but if people are already confused they're going to have a hard time remembering even the soccer ball. The conflict of visual imagery just muddies the water. Throw a needle on the screen, and everybody will remember in a panic that the error had a needle up there, but not what the text said. If that snippet of information is not enough to work from, you'll need to find a different solution.

    1. Re:Distill them by DrStrangeLug · · Score: 1

      As a game user I can relate - but stop making your UIs so frakking non-standard. And when you cant connect to the server give me some kind of meaningful error message, dont make me trawl through forums finding out what to check.

  52. Error messages are for the programmers, not users by cryfreedomlove · · Score: 1

    In the late 90's our startup had HP as a customer for a new on-line product. One day, about six months after they had become a customer, we get a call saying our product does not work. At the end of a SIX HOUR support call, I got on a plane for a cross-country flight because we just could not duplicate or figure out the problem. At 7:00 AM that morning I arrive, and at about 7:03 AM had the problem figured out. HP had recently made a change to their nework removing the browser ID string when employees were surfing the net. Our product needed that information for some processing. Even though the error message was CLEARLY being displayed, not once in the previous day's support call did this get mentioned. "Oh, that happens all the time, it happens with all sorts of applications, so we just ignore it." We had a fix in place by 10 AM and I was back on a cross country flight that afternoon. All because the customer ignored an error message.

    I have two questions for you:
    1. Why does your application care about the browser ID string so much that it is unusable when there is an unexpected value?
    2. Why didn't your application phone home with the higher error levels so the application experts (i.e. you) could diagnose the problem?

    It's funny that you blame this problem on your customer. Is this startup you were working for still in business?

  53. Your solution : by unity100 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Funny error messages. really funny. not 'microsoft' funny.

  54. Your wasting your time by onyxruby · · Score: 1

    The first thing you need to learn, that your slowly starting to learn, is that your user base can't be bothered. If they click a button and the error message goes away than they consider their problem gone. Unless they can no longer use their needed application, they will not both bother to call it in.

    Look at the user experience for someone who does have to call it in. In many companies this means a call to a helpdesk in India, an aggravating set of phone menus and an unpleasant conversation. However if they just click the button, use task manager or reboot than they have 'solved' their problem themselves.

    What you need to do is to adapt to your users instead of trying to get your users to adapt to you. Set up software on their computer that monitors for certain error codes. You can fairly easily set up different tools to look in the log files for certain events and than do something about it. That something could be as simple as a timestamp, taking a screenshot, recording all open applications and services and sending a notification to your helpdesk with the requisite log file.

    Short of using something like another commentator said about disabling the users ability to do anything other than to report by using penalties, there isn't anything you can do get a user to report because the bottom line is that they can't be bothered.

  55. How about pressing the print screen(PrtScn) button by TheSunborn · · Score: 1

    How about just asking the users to press the print screen(PrtScn) button and send the screenshot to you.

  56. Sweets! by Hauke · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I've found, that promising sweets, say a tiny pack of gummibears, for any new error, that has not been seen before motivated everyone.
    Simply ask them to make screenshots to prove that it is a new error and you are of.

    Think about it. Finding Bugs this way makes fun and is totally worth the packet of sweets.
    This really works!

    1. Re:Sweets! by nelsonal · · Score: 1

      That might be the best idea in the thread today. I'm very sorry I'm currently out of mod points. Thanks!

      --
      Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
  57. Yeah, That'll Work by RobotRunAmok · · Score: 1

    Because the bosses are hanging on every word and observation that the Help Desk Guy shares with them.

    1. Re:Yeah, That'll Work by O('_')O_Bush · · Score: 1

      The threat is intended to scare users into paying closer attention to what they're doing and the errors they get, not to get them fired.

      --
      while(1) attack(People.Sandy);
  58. Re:This is a sore subject with me because it's tru by Geoffrey.landis · · Score: 0

    You were walking the user through the process, and you never asked them what's on the screen?

    --
    http://www.geoffreylandis.com
  59. And they can VOTE to regulate people's lives! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "how these people have a job not requiring a broom is an eternal mystery."

    And the can VOTE to regulate people's lives!

  60. Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You cant fix stupid...

  61. Tech support LOL by Lost+Penguin · · Score: 1

    Many times when I ask a customer for the error message log, it will have the solution listed in the error log...
    "Application whatzit cannot find the snapinfo lun, please rerun the whatzit configuration wizard"

    --
    I am the unwilling control for my Origin.
  62. Simple, by pacsloof · · Score: 1

    Beat them.

  63. Explaining error messges is what support is for. by Gribflex · · Score: 4, Funny

    I had a lengthy discussion with some of our field engineers, and a few of our customers, about a year ago about how they use the documentation to troubleshoot problems. My main goal was to see if there was something that we could do to get customers to read the docs more (and call support less).

    Eventually, someone cut to the heart of the issue from there side. Basically, he said "Do you know how much I pay each year for my support contract? No? Well, it's a lot. If I have any problems that don't fix themselves in under five minutes, I'm going to pick up the phone and call you. I'm paying you to support me if I have trouble, I shouldn't have to troubleshoot it myself."

  64. Re:This is a sore subject with me because it's tru by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sounds like *you* have a problem communicating with these people by not making it dead obvious that you need to know about anything that they encounter during the process.

    Ultimately, end users don't know what's important and what isn't. You need to point this out to them with no question of what you need to know.

  65. The summary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Didn't read it, but it had a stapler

  66. Require User Intervention by ArhcAngel · · Score: 1

    Make your error messages interactive. Hide a code in the message itself and make it so the user must find the code and key it in to continue. Perhaps let the code be written out numbers (one, two, three) spattered throughout the message in random locations.

    --
    "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
  67. "Puppy error" is actually a good idea! by wowbagger · · Score: 1

    ALL people remember what is important to them, and do so by relating it to things they already understand. We software types can relate messages like "too few file descriptors" to things we understand - WE know what a "file descriptor" is. Imagine that the error message instead said something like "LO VCO UNLOCK", or "Wrong mode for DX window": while some of the people here might understand those messages, unless you are a radio guy they are meaningless, and you have nothing in your world experience to which to relate them. I'm sure many of you can add your own problem-domain specific errors here.

    Adding error numbers: "Error -522: LO VCO UNLOCK" doesn't help - unless the number "-522" has some special meaning to you, you still won't be able to relate it to your world.

    However, thinks like puppies, colors (save for those who are color blind), and simple shapes are things most people can relate to. So the idea of "[image of sad puppy] LO VCO UNLOCK" can resonate with users of all stripes.

    I'd suggest that any such errors log the details, even across runs, and that there be a way to retrieve the error data and send it onward to you as well.

    1. Re:"Puppy error" is actually a good idea! by Pentium100 · · Score: 1

      The thing is that even if I cannot understand the "LO VCO UNLOCK" message (LO Voltage Controlled Oscillator unlocked from some reference oscillator?) I could google it, call a friend who may know about it or call the company that made the device or program that is displaying this error. If I can't find the solution on google, I'll call somebody, tell them the message and hope that it makes sense to them.

      If there is no error message, I'll try to describe the problem as accurately as I can, for example, talking about radio would be "I bought Leak Troughline Stereo, it works, that is I can receive stations, but it has low sensitivity (the tuning indicator does not close even if I connect the radio to my cable TV cable (which has FM radio in addition to analog and digital TV)), AFC does not work right (if I turn it on, the radio switches to a different station on a lower frequency or it just outputs noise) and I can receive the same station on two close frequencies (something like 100kHz apart, the radio has an analog dial so I can't tell the precise difference)". Even though I may not know why it is like this (that's why I am asking somebody else) I can say something more than "It does not work".

      However, lusers usually tell me (as a friend/family tech support) "I did something, then the computer wrote something and now it does not work". In this case my response is usually "Well, then do something and it will work again, until you tell me what exactly happened, I won't be able to tell you what that 'something' is"

  68. mcgrew for Software Emperor! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There should be no errors. Period. Your program should not allow errors.

    Now, if you're talking about a programming language or programming environment, that's different, but someone writing a program using your compiler/interpreter would be expected to read and understand the messages. But even there, some efforts are lax and feebel. I've gotten errors in MS Access that say error n: there is no message for this error". Boundary conditions for common "errors" are handled poorly; end of file, for example. If you make your own next/previous buttons to replace the puny little almost invisible Access buttons, there is no easy way to determming the beginning of the file, and Access returns an error in a big scary "stop" combo. This should be there in a debug mode, but a user shouldn't see it -- and Access' docs should be a lot more clear.

    I'm not just talking about Microsoft, you're all bad about it. Well, not you -- your PHBs who want it shipped yesterday when the damned thing's barely out of alpha are bad about it.

    With a graphics program or word processor, for an end user to see an error message is inexcusable. If your users are getting errors, your program is poorly designed.

    Yes, exactly, Praise Jesus!

    Many of those "messages" to the user have absolutely no meaning to them. When I see things like "Error in Foobar::method; 0x2383FFAA, trace ..." and the program chugs along without a problem or shuts down and restarts.

    I think just how useless to the user it is. Users have gotten trained to ignore them because they have no meaning to them.

    Or the other things programmers do is that they have an information message box for every little piss ant activity. I don't need to see a message box if the file has been successfully saved!

  69. Re:If clicking the OK box makes the error go away. by LS1+Brains · · Score: 1

    This is how we handle errors and such on our internal software -- the user is prevented from continuing if "something" must be done to solve the issue. These are rare, because in many cases we can programmatically figure out what's wrong and dynamically prompt for replacement values and such. But in those instances where continuing would leave data in a "dangerous" state, we halt the user's progress, and they either get the opportunity to fix or they're instructed to get someone who can. If they wish, they can back out and redo the whole transaction.

    We've found this works quite well - in most of the cases the users may not know exactly what they did that generated the error, but they appreciate being able to self-manage the problem without having to run to our dep't. for resolution.

  70. Get rid of 1st line support. by CAIMLAS · · Score: 1

    Get rid of first-line support and make it very, very difficult for them to get in contact with the troubleshooters and sysadmins.

    No, I'm serious. That's the only way to get them to read the error messages: send them afloat by themselves, without the liferaft. They'll have to hold themselves afloat by their own sheer heft and willpower.

    Even if they do manage to track down the higher level techs, the "don't talk to me, I'm busy" rule applies.

    This way nobody actually gets 'blamed' for user stupidity but the user who breaks the computer, there are fewer user errors due to them actually paying attention and learning, and the sysadmins actually get work done.

    More will get done and the users will have fewer actual errors. Support costs will be saved, and users won't begrudge those IT guys who do "nothing" all day.

    --
    ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
    1. Re:Get rid of 1st line support. by c-reus · · Score: 1

      there are fewer user errors due to them actually paying attention and learning, and the sysadmins actually get work done

      There are fewer user errors due to users not using the software (or being scared of using it), not because they start paying attention to the messages.

      If the "print" button always spits out error messages, the user stops pushing it eventually. If the button works at their co-worker's computer, they ask the coworker to do the printing. Productivity is much lower - but at least nobody is bothering the sysadmins.

  71. Don't tell what went wrong by Erik+Hensema · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "uninitialized data" is meaningless. It's something only a programmer would understand.

    Instead tell the user what *he* did wrong and tell him how to correct the situation.

    "No recipient address given. Please enter the the e-mail address of the recipient and try again".

    --

    This is your sig. There are thousands more, but this one is yours.

    1. Re:Don't tell what went wrong by ebbe11 · · Score: 1

      Amen! Someone, mod this up (preferably as "Insightful") because this exactly what is needed.

      --

      My opinion? See above.
    2. Re:Don't tell what went wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Instead tell the user what *he* did wrong and tell him how to correct the situation.

      Or even better, in this case, prevent the error from ever happening in the first place. Have the "OK" button be greyed out until the recipient address is given. Color the text-field a non-intrusive hue of red. Display an alert sign next to it until the user has entered the address.

      If the user clicks OK anyway, have a red, pulsing (graphically slick, of course) attention-drawing sign appear next to the field where the adress was supposed to be entered. Have it scroll into view. Hell, turn the whole screen red, then have a zoom effect which shrinks the red screen down to just the sign.

      Modern computers have a ton of processing power and advanced graphics cards. Yet the best thing most programmers can think of is to pop up a dialog saying "Error - you did not X the Y" with an "OK" button.

    3. Re:Don't tell what went wrong by FireFury03 · · Score: 1

      "uninitialized data" is meaningless. It's something only a programmer would understand.

      Instead tell the user what *he* did wrong and tell him how to correct the situation.

      In the case of "uninitialised data", what *he* did wrong was probably buy some software written by a chimp. :)

  72. The BOFH's one-word answer by idontgno · · Score: 2, Funny
    --
    Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
  73. Imagine you're an auto mechanic by chrysrobyn · · Score: 1

    Imagine you're Click and Clack. Someone calls you up and tries to reproduce a sound. As if by magic, you can deduce the problem, how difficult and expensive the solution is, and who's qualified to perform the work. Now imagine you have full control over every sound the engine makes and can in fact make error sounds to make this job easier.

    It seems to me that you have two choices for volume ("Was it quiet? Was it loud?"), a few tone questions ("Was it high pitched, low pitched or somewhere in between") and even a few frequency ones ("Was it intermittant? Fast or slow? Was it constant?"). I'm sure that, if you have more variables than that, you can toss in a few more permutations. Just make sure they're easy to pick out.

    Also, force the error message not to be dismissed in less than two full minutes with your phone number on the screen.

    Of course, having every error message drop some key logs into a database you can query might be a good idea too. Then you can post-process it with a few scripts and call them with the solution.

  74. Good Name for a Rock Band by jimbolauski · · Score: 1

    Unprovoked Genital Damage!

    --
    Knowledge = Power
    P= W/t
    t=Money
    Money = Work/Knowledge so the less you know the more you make
    1. Re:Good Name for a Rock Band by ZERO1ZERO · · Score: 1

      I read this when it was posted, but suddenly in the last day I've started chuckling to myself about this. Awesome phrase, and would be a great name for a rock band. Lol.

  75. You don't. You prevent the situation. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    You don't. You take a closer look at the function provided to the user, and make very very sure to remove confusion, to accomodate the user's mental modal and workflow, and remove all spurious complexity that tunnel-visioned software engineers extravagantly tend to spray on.

  76. Use Humor by Voyager529 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Okay so this is technically a readme file, but it is still among the best technical documentation I've ever seen shipped with a piece of software. It came with the program "DV Rack", a video capture application written by Serious Magic...

    Oh, good.... You're reading this file. You are indeed a wise person who takes
    direction well. Blessings be upon you!

    IMPORTANT!

    WHAT NOT TO DO:
    All the captured video clips in this folder (and any subfolders in it) must
    remain unmodified and exactly where they are for DV Rack to fully and properly
    function. You see, DV Rack has an internal Database that puts the clips here
    and this Database bloody well expects them to still be here the next time it
    comes around looking for them. Pay attention because this Database has a
    personality much like the deity figure in some religions (say, Pan or Loki). It
    is a singularly temperamental, unforgiving, and capricious Database Deity. It
    knows how to Smite and, trust us, you don't want any smiting going on around
    your clips. The only way to make the Database Deity cranky is to mess with the
    clips it puts here in this one folder.

    Editing, deleting, or renaming these clips will result in inexplicable, random,
    and very likely BAD and NAUGHTY behavior on the part of DV Rack. No kidding,
    this normally elegant and refined software will start acting like a petulant
    three-year-old who is hours past nappy time and just had its ice cream taken
    away. No one wants that! So PLEASE do not perform any of these actions on any
    clips in this folder. However, if DV Rack is not running, you can use Windows
    to copy of one or more clips in this folder to somewhere else on your hard
    drive (outside the DV Rack folders). But don't even THINK about ever putting
    them back here.

    WHAT YOU SHOULD DO INSTEAD:
    The instant, easy, proper (and painless) way to get your clutches on these
    clips is to first use the magic "Eject" button in the DVR. DV Rack will
    graciously take the clips from the evil clutches of the Database and put them
    next door, over in the "Ejected Clips" folder. Life is easy over there. No
    rules. No consequences. No three-year-olds.

    So remember, don't touch the clips unless they're in the "Ejected Clips" folder
    or the "Garbage Clips" folder. If you do, don't come crying to us like a three-
    year-old who just had its ice cream taken away. You have been warned...

    The DV Rack Team Thanks You For Your Most Benevolent Cooperation

    Unfortunately, Serious Magic was bought out by Adobe, who decided to write a more "corporate" version of this...and inflate the app size from 18MBytes to over 400.

    1. Re:Use Humor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unfortunately, Serious Magic was bought out by Adobe, who decided to write a more "corporate" version of this...and inflate the app size from 18MBytes to over 400.

      Interestingly enough I was there when Serious magic was bought by Adobe, and up to when I was let go in their most recent round of layoffs the app was still written entirely by the same team that has always written it, and he still plays in that star trek band with Kiki Stockhammer.

      Yeah the readme's actually had to contain last minute bug information now, and be far more serious.

      As for the programs size - blame that on feature bloat - I mean what would you do if you suddenly had more money to develop a program, and a huge list of "customer requirements" from sales and marketing?

    2. Re:Use Humor by Voyager529 · · Score: 1

      what would you do if you suddenly had more money to develop a program, and a huge list of "customer requirements" from sales and marketing?

      Uhm...implement them? Maybe I missed something somewhere, but I have a copy of both the 10-day-demo DV Rack and OnLocation, and didn't see 380MBytes of added features. I saw a handful (including XDCam and other new formats being supported), but the core functionality appeared to be largely unchanged. In fact, I still opt for the DV Rack demo whenever I can, just because it seems snappier. It's sad that the humor had to go, 'cuz this one was particularly memorable despite having not seen it for several years. The new OnLocation ones are bland and utterly forgettable.

    3. Re:Use Humor by mvdwege · · Score: 1

      Not only is this condescending as all get out, it is also a sign of lousy software. If the developers can't be arsed to implement decent exception handling, and expect me to jump through hoops to get at my own data, they're lazy bastards.

      It is shit like this that makes me hate doing end user support. Last time I had to fix an issue with .pst files not being synced across a Terminal Server cluster. I mentioned to the user "I'm going to try to copy the files manually. That ought to work, and on a *nix machine that practically always works, but my experience on Windows is that programmers sometimes have stupid assumptions about files, so I can't promise anything.". The user, our CEO, understood and said, "sure, go ahead, I'm glad you're at least trying."

      But it's a crying shame when I as a sysadmin can't trust basic filesystem operations. And shit like the DV Rack programmers are pulling up above is not helping.

      If I ever get my hands on a developer who pulls a stunt like that, I'll put his head on a stake, pour encourager les autres.

      Mart

      --
      "I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
    4. Re:Use Humor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      tl;dr

    5. Re:Use Humor by pinkushun · · Score: 1

      Great story, thoroughly enjoyed that one! Let's see what's next.

  77. Splunk by Tuki · · Score: 1

    Install Splunk and read them on your own.

    --
    robots obey what the children say - TMBG
  78. Outsource much? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    So, let me get this straight. You have some buggy apps, probably with meaningless error messages that have no correlation to any corrective action that can be taken. The official solution is to halt work immediately, call the help desk, and ... wait? As an added bonus, you disable Task Manager, so they can't just kill the process and re-launch. So they get tired of waiting for the helpdesk and reboot instead. Best of all, they get a coffee break, effectively mandated by the IT department. The Bangalore Bargain Bin is looking better by the minute.

    1. Re:Outsource much? by newbe5 · · Score: 1

      If they call, it gets fixed. Unfortunately the main backend app that runs our accounting software does not play nice when the clients get suddenly disconnected. The errors the client throws out are perfectly readable and make the problem easy to resolve, unfortunately they do not log in this same lovely format, making it much harder to detect. On top of this, the system does not automatically email the helpdesk informing us of the crash (we did not write this software, yes I am aware that this is crappy, but we are limited in what we can do with it), so a lot of the time we arent even aware of a problem until we realise that a user has locked an entire section of the database. Its easy to shout abuse without knowing the full situation, but this works for us, and applied properly it can work elsewhere too. My original post does make it sound very harsh I realise, but believe me, the ramifications of crashing out repeatedly without anyone knowing about it are much worse than a minor annoyance for the user.

  79. Eschew... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...obfuscation.

  80. not gonna happen by Ephemeriis · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Users have been conditioned to simply click away message boxes as quickly as possible and get on with their lives.

    A Windows computer is constantly popping up boxes that get in your way. Sometimes it's just to inform you that a wireless network was found... Other times it's asking for confirmation for something... Other times it's a warning... Sometimes it's an error...

    Folks don't evaluate what the message says, they just make it go away.

    You can put all the puppies and red numbers and blue squares as you want... They're still going to click it away just as quick as they can.

    You could alleviate this to a certain degree by taking away their ability to clear the error message. Put in an error code somewhere, along with a phone number for technical support, and no way to close the box. They'll call you and you can have them read off whatever you need. Then you can tell them whatever bizarre combination of keys will actually close the box.

    A better solution would be to simply write a log of the error message when the box is generated, then you don't need to rely on the user to do much of anything.

    --
    "Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
    1. Re:not gonna happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah, I hate software which does this.

      I'm in the middle of something important (eg, demoing to a customer) and because some app which works in the office can no longer reach its files it thinks that I give a toss and spams the demo with dialog boxes that can't be easily made go away.

      It's hubris to think that I even care that your little application is having a hissy fit. Just hang around quietly until things improve. Maybe even write a message on its status bar. But don't think you are the most important thing that I'm doing with the computer.

    2. Re:not gonna happen by Dynedain · · Score: 1

      Put in an error code somewhere, along with a phone number for technical support, and no way to close the box. They'll call you and you can have them read off whatever you need. Then you can tell them whatever bizarre combination of keys will actually close the box.

      Any one who actually implements this horrible idea deserves one of the deeper rings of hell.

      If I was the end user, I would be livid if I was locked out of continuing to use my machine, and there would be one of 2 actions.

      1. If you lock up the app, I'm just going to kill -9 or ctrl+alt+del.
      2. If you lock up the machine, I'm just going to cut power and reboot

      Neither one of these is desirable for a simple state error message, which is why it's a horrible idea. If your crappy program brings my entire computer to its knees because of an error message, don't be surprised when I start looking for alternatives real quick.

      --
      I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....
    3. Re:not gonna happen by Ephemeriis · · Score: 1

      Put in an error code somewhere, along with a phone number for technical support, and no way to close the box. They'll call you and you can have them read off whatever you need. Then you can tell them whatever bizarre combination of keys will actually close the box.

      Any one who actually implements this horrible idea deserves one of the deeper rings of hell.

      If I was the end user, I would be livid if I was locked out of continuing to use my machine, and there would be one of 2 actions.

      1. If you lock up the app, I'm just going to kill -9 or ctrl+alt+del.
      2. If you lock up the machine, I'm just going to cut power and reboot

      Neither one of these is desirable for a simple state error message, which is why it's a horrible idea. If your crappy program brings my entire computer to its knees because of an error message, don't be surprised when I start looking for alternatives real quick.

      I never suggested locking your machine... I suggested preventing that error box from being closed.

      One would assume that on a modern computer you'd be able to continue working with other applications.

      And I'm personally assuming, perhaps incorrectly, that if you're going to put up an error message there's a good reason for it. Not some "do you really want to make your text bold" error message... But "server just burst into flames" error message... In which case you'd probably want to get a hold of technical support pretty quickly.

      --
      "Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
    4. Re:not gonna happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Training adults can help, if we help them read their screen to know where options are and what it is they can do. I am training some 50+ year old ladies as computer beginners. One of them is my mother.

      There is WAY too much information displayed at any one time on any PC. The number one goal of everyone is to use a web browser from day 1 of computer learning. I veer them away from such an advanced task. For some reason they feel entitled to start by what our computer classes used to save for last. We can't really show them DOS and stop-all error messages that were so effective 20 years ago.

      I do highlight that there are Windows, title bars (each for different tasks), menus, then toolbars, then tabs. Each one has a name and particular options. It MUST be read. Then, a browser app will have site header bitmaps, headings, javascript menus, side navigation bars, and finally, the data. If people don't get used to reading even their applications, then anything else popping up will be utterly forgotten in the sea of confusion that their muscle memory will be. You can't determine what every error message will be, but you can show people that certain words will relate to what they are doing, and those messages tend to refer to those words. The more they know before hand about those, the less they will need to call you.

  81. Your may be thinking to much by whitedsepdivine · · Score: 0

    I find there are really two scenarios: unknown error, or a known situation. Displaying an error really should be a default error by security principle. Let’s say you have a login screen. You would not want to have multiple errors: username does not exist, password is incorrect, and your account has been locked. You give a hacker the information that they have a proper username, and that their next attempts are in vain. By simply saying invalid credentials, you cover all cases. Additionally if you have a know situation, of system being used improperly you should either thrown a security exception, or handle the situation. You should create more of an information, or user manual on proper use and call it a day. If you have a global application wide catch for unhandled exceptions, you can log information and decided if the user should be logged out.

  82. Re:This is a sore subject with me because it's tru by Jim+Hall · · Score: 1

    You were walking the user through the process, and you never asked them what's on the screen?

    I can relate. I used to manage a group for a web development team (at a previous job.) Part of that included managing the helpdesk, and I worked closely with that team during rollouts. I got some first-hand experience that when you ask users to tell you what's on the screen, often they will "filter" the information for you, because they figure some stuff just "isn't important".

    You can tell them all you like that it's important to know exactly what they see, but they'll still "filter" little details like this. It's very frustrating. On the web, pop-up messages tend to get ignored for example (late 1990's) even though you put an error message there. You might be 15 minutes into a call before they mention that little pop-up window that they read but dismissed.

    Managing that helpdesk is where I picked up the maxim, "Nobody reads anymore."

  83. Users are not the enemy by jason.sweet · · Score: 1

    The longer I do desktop support, the more it becomes obvious that my users don't read anything that appears on their screen.

    Error dialogs are like the sign at MacDonald's that says you have to pay for extra ketchup packets - nobody reads them. If you are honest with yourself, you will admit that you don't even read them unless you are working an issue. Bright colors and cute picture are a waste of time - no one will see them.

    I like to think that my users would remember the error that caused them to get a kick in the balls.

    That's a terrible plan. If using your product is painful, then the user will find an alternative.
    It's already been said, but it bears repeating. Automatic crash dumps are the only way you are going to get reliable information.

  84. Simple solution by confused+one · · Score: 1

    Don't produce an error message and expect the users to remember it. 1.) Write all error to log file. 2.) Keep a running log file of recent activity, so when there is an error you can see what led up to it. 3.) Present a simple messages. Worst case should be something like: "An error has occured, contact Engineering staff for support."

    I try to design my apps so that users cannot progress to the next stage unless all the required fields are filled in, correctly. I also put a colored frowny face on some error messages -- the user might remember the color, which is a clue to the cause -- however, don't rely on that. Rely on the logs.

  85. Here's a bad idea! by stakovahflow · · Score: 1

    How about asking the user for his/her credit card information and a check box, which, if left unchecked, could allow the systems administrator access to use that card number for any number of online purchases, shipped to some random place in Central Africa? Hey, they can use your users' stupidity to buy well needed learning equipment, right!?

    --Stak

    --
    Holy happy hippy crap!
  86. Moral blackmail by itsdapead · · Score: 1

    but they might be more able to remember that they got the "puppy error" if I showed a puppy picture next to the error message.

    And a gun.

    Make a note of this error message and take it to the help desk or we shoot this puppy!

    Another option is physical violence: when you start to explain something to them and they whip out the note pad and start to write things down, a steel rule across the knuckles accompanied by a polite reminder that this isn't f***ing French dictation - look at what I'm f***ing well showing you on that big square glass thing!.

    Alternatively, a full Clockwork Orange rig with eyelid hooks and head clamps can encourage users to actually notice that things are happening on the screen when they're typing. Ludiwg Van is optional.

    The real problem is if you're dealing with older, trained touch-typists who've been subjected to techniques not a million miles from the above to stop them looking at their work.

    --
    In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
  87. Two things..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In your SIX hour support call, did anyone ask if there were any error messages?

    The software was poorly designed if something that simple broke it.

    1. Re:Two things..... by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 1

      In your SIX hour support call, did anyone ask if there were any error messages?

      Weird. Usually that's the first thing I ask. And I usually act surprised that users don't mention any error messages on their own without needing to be prompted for them.

  88. Why bother? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Having used computers since punch cards, the one thing that error messages have taught me is that they arcane, contain so little information why bother recalling them, the meaning of the message is in some large book that I don't have readily available or "It's not meant for the user to have." So just call the help desk.

  89. Not necessarily by Dr.+Manhattan · · Score: 1

    If using your product is painful, then the user will find an alternative.

    Well, actually...

    --
    PHEM - party like it's 1997-2003!
  90. Why do most Slashdotters hate me? by Doghouse+Riley · · Score: 1
    I think that cartoons to help the user deal with errors are great, just like many of the SD'ers on this thread.

    Your friend,

    Clippy

  91. Easy Relying on Users by Xiozhiq · · Score: 1

    Users, in the vast majority of occurrences, want to just get their job done. They don't care how the software works, and as long as it works, that's perfectly fine. When it inconveniences them, they just want the inconveniences to go away, not learn C++ from the ground up so they can pinpoint the error for you.

    To that end, I have two suggestions based on the situation in which you find yourself.

    First:

    If you're supporting a program that you wrote / helped write, make the error message box more than 5 paragraphs of memory addresses and an OK button. Make the popup something that a user actually cares about, like "Oops, the program made a mistake. Please help us fix it by clicking submit below." Have a submit button that will automatically gather all (of the automatically gatherable) information for you, put it in a report, then allow users to add their own comments to let you know what they were trying to do. Always give them a way to skip a certain step, mentioning just how helpful their submission could be to finding the error and eliminating it forever, giving them more facebook time at work. If your process is slightly informative and makes the end-user feel valuable, they'll be more likely to help you. On a side-note, always send thank-you e-mails to users who report issues, even if it's an automated e-mail. Thank them for their invaluable help, because it's only due to users like them that the program can be improved. Stroke some ego.

    Second:

    If you're doing 'desktop support' in a general manner, where you need to fix errors caused by other programs, make it easy for users to report those as well. Put a pleasant-looking note (so they don't just trash it) on their monitors with clear instructions on how to take a screenshot and get it to you. Emphasize that helping you find the problem means it won't happen again when you find out why it happened. Users are lazy creatures, and the easier you make it on them, the more likely it is that they won't mind helping you.

  92. Nagging Nora by sakdoctor · · Score: 1

    The Euro-fighter has a feedback system called Nagging Nora. The system provides important audio warnings in a nagging women's voice.
    This could definitely work for computers.

    1. Re:Nagging Nora by stjobe · · Score: 1

      Aural warnings are used in a lot of civilian and military aircraft, the voice is called Bitching Betty in the US, and here's what she looks (and sounds) like.

      --
      "Total destruction the only solution" - Bob Marley
    2. Re:Nagging Nora by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Euro-fighter has a feedback system called Nagging Nora. The system provides important audio warnings in a nagging women's voice.
      This could definitely work for computers.

      Christ! Are you trying to tell me that a trained end-user sitting in front of a machine that can kill people (including the user) is still ignoring the error messages? And that they have to resort to gimmicks to make them listen? Oh boy, this species doesn't have much hope, does it?

    3. Re:Nagging Nora by netsharc · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Not as much ignoring as in maybe preoccupied in other things, like that Sukhoi chasing him and SAMs firing big explodey things at him... at those points in time even fighter pilots might not realize that he's headed to a big fat mountain real fast.

      --
      What time is it/will be over there? Check with my iPhone app!
    4. Re:Nagging Nora by dkuntz · · Score: 1

      Thats not a eurofighter thing.... the F-16s have it, as do a lot of modern commercial airliners, as part of TAWS/EGPWS and TCAS.

      The most notable use of this was from the 90s computer game F-16 Fighting Falcon.. or something to that effect. Which used the actual warnings from the F-16 (such as it telling you to Pull Up, when you were nose diving into the ground at 600 knots).

      --
      OMG... I have a sig?
    5. Re:Nagging Nora by anegg · · Score: 2, Informative

      Perhaps you should try understanding the problem domain a bit before criticizing. Pilot workload in the cockpit is amazing on regular planes under certain circumstances when it seems like the environment desires nothing more than the total destruction of your plane and your personal death. Pilot workload in a fighter aircraft is ramped up a bit because it involves much of what the regular plane does, with the added tasks of flying non-standard courses and attitudes, while being responsible for death-dealing weapons, while sometimes being in situations where people are trying to kill you in addition to the environment. Many people can't even talk on a cell phone without it altering their ability to maintain situational awareness in a car with just a 2D control set.

      Its not so much ignoring a message as needing as many message channels available as possible (audio provides an additional channel with visual and tactile being used as well) with priority messages getting the most effective channel - the "Kitchen Voice" (apologies to National Lampoon's Doon).

    6. Re:Nagging Nora by Entropius · · Score: 1

      I think the idea is that in a crisis situation people miss stuff. But the nag-voice relies upon the assumption that the system designers know better than the user what's important or not. Might be true sometimes, might not be true other times, but the whole point of training people is so they'll know what they need.

      I can just imagine someone flying home with a broken attitude sensor, or altimeter, hearing "Pull up! You are about to crash!" in German over and over and over again. It's like that goddamn beeper on my car that lets me know whenever I don't have the seatbelt buckled over my groceries.

    7. Re:Nagging Nora by Dishevel · · Score: 1

      I am sure that even you could find a way to ignore many things when you are flying at 1200 Kts watching 6 targets with varying vectors presenting small clues as to how much of a threat they are to you. On top of the normal sounds you might be hearing at any time in a cockpit during combat conditions. Getting someones attention pulled away from one area to another might pose some difficulties.

      --
      Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
    8. Re:Nagging Nora by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      But the nag-voice relies upon the assumption that the system designers know better than the user what's important

      Not exactly. If they knew better, the pilot wouldn't need to fly.

      What it really is that the system designers are saying 'hey, we don't really know if you can do anything about it right now, but this looks like MAJOR problem that you should be aware of and you don't currently appear to be, maybe you should check it out before its too late'.

      At which point, the pilot responds to the message by fixing the problem, silencing the alarm, or becoming a really expensive yard dart.

      Its the engineers and designers saying 'We think what you are doing is a bad idea and could be catastrophic' but leaving the pilot in control as it is entirely possible the pilot is doing what he's doing intentionally and is aware of the situation and its possible outcomes.

      Example: When the aircraft landed in the Hudson last year, I promise you Bitch'n Betty was screaming at Captin Sully to pull up, altitude, terrain, as well as probably a stall warning right at the last moments, several caution bells for the failed engines and rapidly failing secondary power systems, probably some obstruction/collision warnings (possibly voice based, don't know in that aircraft) due to flying right at a bunch of structures. All of these things he had to ignore in order to do his job. If the aircraft had been in command he probably would have taken out another sky scrapper or belly floppied into the Hudson when the aircraft fell out of the air as it tried to climb or maintain altitude with 0 thrust.

      Fortunately, you can turn the alarms off when you want to, like when you find out the alarm really isn't valid or that dangerous and you have time to take your hands off the stick. The alarms are a perfect example of engineers allowing the pilot to fly the aircraft while maintaining the highest levels of safety by allowing the pilot to adapt to the situation the engineers didn't see coming.

      Sadely, the aircraft and engineers on the ground are unusally right and the result if the pilot ignores the warnings is normally not as nice as we'd hope. Sully got had some skill as pilot, nerves from being a airforce driver, and fortunately for everyone onboard, a fair amount of luck.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    9. Re:Nagging Nora by DRACO- · · Score: 1

      In some cases at least in fords, just click the seatbelt unlock button will silence the bell for the driver side chime. I tend to drive through a series of locked gates at the farm which require closing after pulling through. Putting on a seatbelt to drive through a gate at 1/2 mph isnt high priority for me. I just click the unlock button on the seatbelt latch and it silences till the next time I start the engine.

      --
      Consider yourself blessed if you are sneezed on by a dragon and only get wet, it could have been a fireball.
  93. "Made to Stick" supports the 'puppy picture' idea by david.emery · · Score: 1

    Our boss picked this book, "Made to Stick" (http://www.amazon.com/Made-Stick-Ideas-Survive-Others/dp/1400064287 ) as this year's reading assignment. There are some interesting ideas in here that support things like "the sad puppy picture error".

    But a big part of the problem that I've seen is the irrelevance of error messages to the recipient. The Blue Screen of Death in theory contains useful information to the developer, but is completely meaningless to the user. Error reporting (whether it's exceptions tossed by a module or alerts presented to the user) should be based on a clear model of the user/caller's world. "A603 Load Module Does Not Exist*" is a lot less useful than "Cannot locate program to run".

    (* If you're old enough to recognize the source of this error message, reply below. First one to get it right gets a prize... :-)

  94. how to get users to read error messages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    add a captia type feature into the error message. so that the user has to read the error then answer a question before the window will go away...

    but this assumes that you want them to read it. not so much to understand it.
    then again, this will just get them to read the error just enough until they know where the answer to the captia is, and answer that to get the window to go away.

    so in the end we are back to square 1

  95. Meaningful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Perhaps if you used error messages that people accually understood.... Instead of:
    The instruction at "0x52fa32b0" referenced memory at "0x45f2588727b". Memory could not be "written".

    Which is pretty much the medical term for you have a broken leg. Great for the doctor but pretty meaningless for the patient.

  96. If you're depending on users to read error dialogs by EXMSFT · · Score: 1

    You're dead in the water already. Users don't read dialogs. End of story. Where else in life besides the computer do humans get interstitial errors that pop up and disrupt what they're doing? Not in the car. Not on the phone. Not reading a book. Error dialogs shouldn't be treated as a problem you have with end users. They should be treated as a problem you have with developers. An inordinate amount of the time, users are presented with dialogs for problems that the software itself could and should resolve, and more importantly, the user can't resolve.

  97. Don't make software with error messages. by jellomizer · · Score: 1

    Try to make the UI in a way where it is difficult or near impossible for them to make user level errors which would popup an error message... And save error messages for things such as bad or corrupted install or lack of network connection (when the application is actually broken)

    Giving Users error messages will only give you headaches. As they will give you wrong messages, or not at all, or panic when they get one. Go with logging if the problem is persistent then quit the app. Yes it takes more work... However if you though of the condition that could create an error message if you put a bit more though you may be able to get the UI so it doen't need to give an error.

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    1. Re:Don't make software with error messages. by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      I disagree. Lets say the user is trying to enter a customer address, and he's absolutely convinced that Estonia is code ES. But the validation then decides the postcode is wrong because it's checking for Spain[1]. What else can you do but give him an error message?

      Of course "Postcode should be 5 numerics for Spain (ES)" would be better than "XVal error PC:DLF\d{5} in object CST_ARDS - baling".

      [1] I have no idea what the formats are for those countries; this is just an example. I've had end users[2] who were absolutely convinced that Indonesia was an alternate spelling of India and wouldn't be told otherwise.

      [2] And no, they weren't Americans.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    2. Re:Don't make software with error messages. by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      You could...
      Give them a Drop down of available zip codes to choose from.Based on Country, City, State (the more you choose the more narrow the search becomes)

      Have them choose the location via a google maps(like) search when they pick the location then it fills out the data.

      Don't let them off the field unless they have a valid zip code, or auto fill the remaining letters as a type ahead field until they are finished.

      Keep required fields in yellow until they meet the validation rules then make them green.

      If you change the code then change the state, City to match up...

      There are a bunch of different ways to handle error cases. The problem with many Error messages is they go on the idea that the User is Stupid so its goal of the UI is to tell them what they did was wrong. While a Good UI shows them/forces them to do what is right.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  98. Re:This is a sore subject with me because it's tru by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sorry, but this one is your company's fault. Before anyone boarded a plane, you had access to server logs and could have run a protocol analyzer on some sessions where users recreated the problem. I worked on international systems, where that "cross country flight" of yours would have been 21 hours to Hong Kong. There was never an emergency support flight because we solved our problems remotely. Thanks to a 13 hour time shift, we were HIGHLY motivated to make things foolproof.

    Looking back at everything that happened in your story, it should now be obvious that the solution could have been found without showing up onsite. Assuming your startup is still afloat, I'm sure that next time the problem will be solved much quicker as long as you have the veterans of "last time" in a position to help.

  99. Re:This is a sore subject with me because it's tru by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 1

    HP had recently made a change to their nework removing the browser ID string when employees were surfing the net. Our product needed that information for some processing.

    It would have saved you some aggravation, if, in addition to displaying the message to the user, it would have logged in on the server. That way, you could have figured out what went on without relying on the user.

    Still doesn't excuse the luser of course.

  100. Re:If clicking the OK box makes the error go away. by neurovish · · Score: 1

    It's not an error. Errors prevent you from continuing. The only thing approaching an error is the little box telling you there's a problem. That is solved by the user clicking "OK".

    The entire way errors are handled is wrong. I don't know what the solution is but I very much doubt it's a simple modification to the current fundamentally flawed system.

    WTH was this marked as troll? It is true. How many times have you compiled something and gotten a page of warning messages, scanned through thinking "warning, warning, warning, warning, blah, blah...no errors? Sweet, it worked!"

  101. Dr. Zen's answer by hey! · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Q: How do you get users to read error messages?

    A: How do you write error messages that are worth reading?

    Commentary: Users do not read error messages because they are mystified by them. To mystify them willfully only increases their resistance.

    The first job is to create error messages that actually help the user. Users are conditioned by the generally crappy state of error messages to ignore them. If you provide helpful error messages then the users that *can* be helped can be trained to read them. It's operant conditioning -- like giving a rat a food pellet for successfully navigating a maze.

    The very first thing you should do with error messages is pull them all together into some kind of document. This document should have (1) an unambiguous ID for the error; (2) a description of *what* happened ; (2) a description or at least a guess for *why* it happened; (3a) the impact of the error on the user (3b) how the user can recover from the error; (3c) what the programmer can do to avoid this; (4) what the user needs to do in the future.

    Note that 3b also implies that *you* should consider how the program is apt to behave after the error message is displayed so you can offer the user sensible choices. For example, if the program fails to write the application preferences file on exiting, it makes sense to give the user both retry and cancel options, rather than sending him into a pointless loop that requires him to shoot the process down.

    Then you write an error message that tells the user roughly what happened, what the impact on him may be, what he needs to do to get out of the corner he's painted himself into, and what he can do in the future. This should always include an unique message identifier for your use.

    Example:

    Please note this error number: #1234. You will need it if you contact technical support.

    The program was unable to update the application preferences file. That is the file that stores the settings you have chosen for things like preferred document styles and last document viewed (choose "More Information" for details).

    File updates can fail when the security permissions on the preferences file or directory ave been set to prevent changes; when more than one program is editing the preferences file at the same time; or when the computer's file system is damaged.

    You can check for these kinds of problems (chose "More help" for instructions) then choose "Retry" to see if the problem is solved. If you choose "Ignore Error" the program will continue without saving any preference changes. If this error persists it is recommended that you check the security settings, permissions and integrity of your filesystem.

    [More information] [Retry] [Ignore Error]

    Now if this sounds like a pain in the ass, it *is*. But it's a much better approach than trying to trick users into reading a piece-of-shit error message like "File operation failed" for a condition like that described.

    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    1. Re:Dr. Zen's answer by mbone · · Score: 1

      Also very useful in an error message is what the user should not do. If, say, rerunning the program without doing some clean-up will corrupt its database, you had better say so, in letters about 1 foot high.

    2. Re:Dr. Zen's answer by mwadams · · Score: 1

      Hmmm. I couldn't even be bothered to read your example error message, in a thread about error messages. I'm deeply unconvinced that any user will do so. Someone else had the right answer above - eliminate as many error messages as possible, ignoring likely transient problems (like network outages) until they become critical, and log them somewhere that an admin (or better still, power user) can see and read them when necessary. Alerting the admin or power user via SMS or email is also a good plan. Logging to a database and including stuff like IP address, error class, code etc. such that you can query the results and look for patterns is also a good idea. Those patterns can be used to help you determine what are transient or hardware problems, and what are problems with your UX (and what are bugs!) Essentially, admit defeat on the error messages, and try to solve a different problem; how do we stop our software getting the way of our user's objectives.

    3. Re:Dr. Zen's answer by token0 · · Score: 1

      They're going to see the scary number, click "Ignore error", retry and tell you that there was some error... something about 'technical support'... If you ask them to retry and note the scary number, they won't understand the purpose. Even if they read it, they'll only remember that their "file system is damaged", thinking about buying a new computer. I'm serious, I had similar experiences. Your approach may be good for more advanced users (who had contact with 'security permissions' and 'file systems'), but I believe it's not worth the effort to maintain such messages.

    4. Re:Dr. Zen's answer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I strongly, strongly disagree with this. The #1 problem with errors is being too wordy, because you get an immediate "tl;dr" response. I'm a computer programmer, and in all honesty if I were faced with a wall of text like that I would probably just hit OK and hope it stopped bothering me. Expecting ordinary computer users to actually read something like that is INSANE.

    5. Re:Dr. Zen's answer by hey! · · Score: 1

      In my experience, *some* users do read informative error messages. They tend to be important ones. Most have to be trained, but they come around once the realize that this is useful.

      There are always some users who could manage to drown themselves in a teacup. Helping the intelligent users is (as I'll show in a minute) a first step toward helping the hopeless ones.

      I don't like the "eliminate as many error messages as possible" strategy. Not that that's not a worthwhile thing *if you can isolate the user from the impact*. The problem I see is that programmers will just sweep errors under the carpet. I can't tell you how many times I've seen serious error conditions caught and shoved away in an obscure error log somewhere. If you are going to fail, fail in a big an obvious way. I've also seen bug tracking systems where they highest severity bug is a "crash bug". Many crash bugs are in fact benign. I've had to retrain practically every single programmer who's worked to me to drill this into their heads: the most severe class of bug is a *data corruption* bug. The very worst bugs of this class give innocuous looking but wrong results. After that come the bugs that cause work to be lost.

      Every single error condition must be handled, or delegated to the user. Handling without user intervention is best, but ignoring error message to reduce the number of errors seen by users is bad, bad, bad design. The elimination of error messages should be a *result* not an *end*.

      Part of the point of disciplining yourself to write informative error messages is that it forces you to *think* about the underlying problem. Excessive error messages are the result of not thinking a situation through. My point is that every message put before the user should *inform his response*. Setting that criterion forces the programmer to do the thing he doesn't do when he throws up an extraneous message: work through what ought to be done about it.

      It's not either or. I'm all for everything you suggest. But I'm also for writing clear error messages that reward the users who take the effort to read them. What I'm certainly not for is adding bells and whistles to *bad* error messages to try to grab user attention, as suggested by the asker.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    6. Re:Dr. Zen's answer by hey! · · Score: 1

      Don't patronize users.

      Your first responsibility toward the user is to minimize the possibility something drastically bad will happen to his data. If you can't handle an error message, you *must* delegate that to the user and give him enough information he can take steps to secure his work. That includes calling tech support.

      Hiding your failure to protect the user's work with the rationalization that some users are too ignorant to take effective action is not ethical system design. When you fail, you *must* tell the user even if it makes him scared or angry. That prospect should motivate you to do a better job.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    7. Re:Dr. Zen's answer by hey! · · Score: 1

      On what basis do you claim the #1 problem is that errors are too wordy?

      Naturally all things being equal, an less wordy error message that is equally informative is preferable to a more wordy one. But a succinct and cryptic error message is less preferable than a long but highly informative one in my opinion.

      If the user is overrun with verbiage, it's because your program is too error prone.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    8. Re:Dr. Zen's answer by hey! · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Very true.

      Programmers have an ethical duty to safeguard users' work. Where we can't, we must give useful guidance (not just in verbiage, but in UI design altogether). If we do our best and users ignore that, it's not our fault.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    9. Re:Dr. Zen's answer by ImprovOmega · · Score: 1

      If re-running the program without doing clean-up will corrupt the database you had damn well better prevent them from doing that. If you *know* that ignoring an error will cause database corruption then you have a very serious bug in your program that needs to be fixed before a user even has a chance to touch it.

    10. Re:Dr. Zen's answer by token0 · · Score: 1

      In my opinion more users would benefit from a message like
      File operation failed - please check permissions and try closing other programs that use the file. [Retry] [Cancel]

      1. If the user understands what file permissions are, he'll immediately know what to do, instead of reading what the 'preferences file' is.
      2. If he doesn't and wouldn't read the long message, now at least he might get an idea.
      3. If he doesn't and would read the long one, he'll have to call tech support now. I don't believe he wouldn't anyway.
      4. The number is of no use for the user - send it automatically (there are exceptions of course). Placing it in the first sentence is just distracting the user.
      5. Usually the routine that fails at some file operation has no way of knowing it's the 'application preference file'. You could throw/catch exceptions, but you'd have to predict all possible errors and write a message for all of them.

      If you really have time for writing the "more information", you'd better write a function that checks what permissions are missing and what locks are held.

      Have you ever written messages like that in a real application?

    11. Re:Dr. Zen's answer by Cid+Highwind · · Score: 1

      Q: How do you get users to read error messages?
      A: How do you write error messages that are worth reading?

      (+5, agree completely)

      Attention tortured support techs at $evil_vendor: You know why I don't read the error messages in your app? Because the "Could not save calibration file because an unknown frobnitz DB error occurred. (Ok/Cancel)" looks almost exactly like the "Are you sure you want to save the new calibration file to the frobnitz server? (Ok/Cancel)" and "Are you really really sure you want to save the new calibration file to the frobnitz server? Data will be overwritten! (Ok/Cancel)" messages that pop up every five minutes during normal use. Clicking "Ok" to those messages becomes a reflex after using your app for a week. Now, by the time I notice something didn't work the totally uninformative error text is already gone.

      --
      0 1 - just my two bits
    12. Re:Dr. Zen's answer by hey! · · Score: 1

      If you really have time for writing the "more information", you'd better write a function that checks what permissions are missing and what locks are held.

      That's one of my points. Thinking it through the guidance you ought to offer the user leads you to the the things you ought to check yourself. It's very easy to say "file operation failed" and leave it at that.

      Have you ever written messages like that in a real application?

      Yes. Maybe not quite like that one, but I try to provide these kinds of things to users in every error message I write:

      (1) An identifier that tech support can correlate to code.
      (2) A clear description of what happened.
      (3) An explanation of consequences of the next action the user might take.

      And yes, my error messages sometimes look silly, because they aren't what people are used to.

      I like your shorter error message, but I think it misses an important element: what is the consequence of canceling? In *this* case it's relatively benign. If it happens on user data, it is not necessarily so. The problem is that saying it's a "failed file operation" is a programmer centric error message. What matters to a user is this: "What am I going to lose if I choose 'Cancel'?" Conceptualizing this error as a "file permission problem" means lumping in losing configuration data (feh -- who cares?) and losing work that might be saved by copy and paste.

      I understand there's a problem with writing too much into an error message, although I don't agree that the problem is with the user. The problem is with the programmer.

      An error message is something like a comment in code that the user gets to see. We all agree that good comments are a big help, but sometimes really verbose comments can obscure the code itself, or even get out of sync with it. So the biggest downside of trying to be informative is to end up *misinforming* the user. That's the point where you have to curb yourself, not having other programmers laugh at you.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    13. Re:Dr. Zen's answer by hey! · · Score: 1

      If you *know* that ignoring an error will cause database corruption then you have a very serious bug in your program that needs to be fixed before a user even has a chance to touch it.

      This is where the "prevent errors from happening in the first place" school is entirely correct. There should be no condition under the control of your software where a real database (as opposed to a file store you manipulate with SQL) can be corrupted by user action or inaction. Atomic operations should be wrapped in transactions; beyond that it is the DB vendor's responsibility to give practically bullet-proof data integrity.

      That said, database platforms can flag thousands, sometimes tens of thousands of error conditions. These are things that happen completely out of your control (e.g. a tablespace that fills up; a license restriction that is exceeded).

      Probably the most serious problem this poses is when user transactions are not posted. This might not be noticed by the user, and can create operational problems for them later as severe as literal "corruption". If you can't figure out why a transaction was not accepted, if its not one of the various foreseeable integrity exceptions, you almost have no choice but to throw up the database error message with a request it be reported to tech support.

      I once worked with a RDBMS and users complained *my* software was losing data. "Impossible" was my reaction. Except that when I looked into it I discovered that the database server was configured to treat abnormally terminated connections as if they were wrapped in an implicit transaction. If the network connection got dropped or the client program crashed, user data simply disappeared, even though the database platform was told to commit. That's just *wrong* behavior, but hardly the most egregious thing I've seen.

      That means that if I can't properly shut down a database connection for some reason, I *have* to tell the user to check that all his data was saved, and I *have* to tell him that if its missing he ought to contact me for help configuring the server. I can argue that it's not my problem, it's the database vendor or DBA's fault, but it won't matter. The users will blame *me* if I don't tell them what to do.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    14. Re:Dr. Zen's answer by ericfitz · · Score: 1

      The above message is the first one I saw on the entire post that is worth reading. What the OP doesn't get is that he's asking the wrong question.

      Your users aren't programmers. They don't care about "General file i/o error reading drive 0". WFT does that mean to your mom?

      First, you need to think about AVOIDANCE. You can't write to the file? Couldn't you figure that out at the time the user opened the document, and tell the user unobtrusively that they can't edit? For example, Microsoft Word attempts to detect whether a file is writable at open. If not (for example, due to permissions or sharing), then Word will open the document in "Read-Only" mode and disable editing functionality. You have to "save as" successfully before it will enable editing.

      Next, all of your error messages must be actionable. Users will forgive badly worded error messages that tell them how to fix the problem. They will ignore error messages that don't tell them how to resolve the problem, and might even get annoyed if you keep "nagging" them.

      Think about the error condition from the user's point of view. Does your program's average user have any prayer of solving the problem themselves? If not, then your action is "call support": "Serious error #1234 has occurred. Please contact EXAMPLECOMPANY tech support to resolve this error at 555-1212 or techsupport@example.com [Email] [Exit Program]"

      If the user is likely to be able to solve the problem themself, then present them with instructions on how to do so:

                "Error #1234 has occurred. You will need this code if you call tech support.

                This error occurs when you put a coffee cup on your CD-ROM tray instead of the program CD.

                To resolve this problem, please put the program CD into your CD-ROM drive and close the drive, then restart the program."

      The user action is the key to getting your users to fix their own problems. But be aware of who your user is, it's easy to present instructions which your users will be unable to complete:

              "Error 0xDEADBEEF occurred in module obtuse.c
              "This occurs because the memory value at location 0x80123456 should have been 0xA2, but was actually 0xA9.
              "To fix this problem, please attach a software debugger such as GDB to this process and change the memory value to 0xA9. Then modify initializememory.cfg to set the value correctly on startup. The man page for initializememory.cfg can be found on www.somerandomdudessiteinlatinamerica.biz".

    15. Re:Dr. Zen's answer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Users don't read error messages because:
      1) Error messages don't tell them what is wrong with their systems.
      2) Error messages don't tell them what to do to fix things.

      The problem is a business issue:
      1) Software Developers simply don't care.
      2) Project managers don't need to care since they only need to get a working product of some kind through QA.
      3) Marketing doesn't think good user interaction will help sell the product.

      The only people who care about error messages and user interaction in general, have no authority on a project -- Service technicians; UI designers; technical publications people. If these support people get too pushy, the developer team will have the marketing team go to the Project Manager with a request to fire whomever is asking uncomfortable questions.

      The question is a great one, but the answer is pretty much a joke. bottom line: If Engineering wanted good error messages; their software would have good error messages.

      sc

    16. Re:Dr. Zen's answer by Siker · · Score: 1

      In my experience that's far too long. Here's the message as seen by the user:

      ...permissions and integrity of your filesystem.

      [More information] [Retry] [Ignore Error]

      The customer would then assume the software has destroyed their filesystem. They'd call and leave a screaming voicemail starting something like 'Someone needs to call me RIGHT NOW.'

      Messages need to be ten words or less to have a fighting chance. And I'm talking about simple words. Even then, people will still call in. We recently had a customer call in wondering what to do about this error in our shipping software: "you have to specify a weight greater than 0 pounds."

      Here's how to make error messages work: make them simple and actionable for the sake of the literate. For the rest, charge per incident for support and hire a lot of cheap labour.

  102. Interface Design on slashdot by da.phreak · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Some advice for programmers trying to do interface design: Don't. Leave question like this to an interface designer. If you can't afford one, or you want to do it anway, a good book for starters is "The Design of Everyday Things" by Don Norman, it's not even expensive. Further, stop treating users as a problem in the system. Every user has his own model on how the system works. This model is very likely very different from the programmers model. Your task as an interface designer is to teach the user enough about the system (or it's model), so he can use the system successfully. Error messages don't help very much, as you've figured out, users don't read them. The lesson is, don't try to force the user to read error messages, instead find other ways to communicate the model. Often, it's a good idea to think about the problem in an abstract way. For example, we have a similar problem at the place I work. There are two doors next to each other, one you should use, the other one you mustn't because it triggers the alarm. They tried to fix it by attaching a sign saying not to use that door. Needless to say, it didn't work, because noone read the sign. Just like your error messages, this sign was completely ignored. It's not wrong of the users to ignore the sign, quite the opposite: We have to filter out information to survive. If you pass through your environment, you too ignore information, i. e. I don't think you read every sign in your proximity. I have no idea why they couldn't come up with a better solution for the door: Locking it would be very easy. Even better, by removing the door handles it would be very clear that the door can't be used.

    1. Re:Interface Design on slashdot by FirstTimeCaller · · Score: 1

      I have no idea why they couldn't come up with a better solution for the door: Locking it would be very easy. Even better, by removing the door handles it would be very clear that the door can't be used.

      Because perhaps that door is the way to a safe exit during a fire (or rampaging co-worker). During which time it would be inconvenient to try to figure out who has the key or to find a door handle to open it.

      I'm not disagreeing with your claim that a sign is not going to work, just pointing out that a simple solution isn't always feasible.

      --
      Wanted: witty unique signature. Must be willing to relocate.
    2. Re:Interface Design on slashdot by Rob+the+Bold · · Score: 1

      Some advice for programmers trying to do interface design: Don't. Leave question like this to an interface designer. If you can't afford one, or you want to do it anway, a good book for starters is "The Design of Everyday Things" by Don Norman, it's not even expensive. Further, stop treating users as a problem in the system. Every user has his own model on how the system works. This model is very likely very different from the programmers model. Your task as an interface designer is to teach the user enough about the system (or it's model), so he can use the system successfully. Error messages don't help very much, as you've figured out, users don't read them. The lesson is, don't try to force the user to read error messages, instead find other ways to communicate the model.

      Go immediately to Amazon (or wherever) and get that book. Don't do anything until you read it. Really. It is the bible of good interface design, making things look like how they work, so it's obvious what the user should do at all times. If a user shouldn't to something, don't let them. Constrain them to doing the right thing, make it easy to see if something is wrong, make recovery from errors graceful and painless. If users aren't reading your error messages and aren't entering correct data and pushing the right buttons, it's not a bug in the user.

      If you want to save a few bucks and buy used or look for it in a library, it was previously titled The Psychology of Everyday Things, or POET. But this title resulted in the book being purchased by people interested in psychology, and shelved in the psychology section of bookstores and libraries. The title itself violated the design advice of the book. The author admitted he liked the title "POET", and used that instead of thinking of how it would be used. Experience led him to re-title the next edition.

      Often, it's a good idea to think about the problem in an abstract way. For example, we have a similar problem at the place I work. There are two doors next to each other, one you should use, the other one you mustn't because it triggers the alarm. They tried to fix it by attaching a sign saying not to use that door. Needless to say, it didn't work, because noone read the sign.

      As Norman would note in the book: a door that requires a user's manual (even one as short as your sign) is too complicated.

      --
      I am not a crackpot.
    3. Re:Interface Design on slashdot by erictheturtle · · Score: 1

      Yours is the first comment I've seen that gives the proper perspective: programmers and tech support people are rarely user interface designers, so they should stop acting like they are.

      The combination of nerds hating on 'lusers', and everyone thinking they're usability experts really drowns out that clear message.

      We're going to be stuck with poor interfaces until that mindset changes.

  103. Re:This is a sore subject with me because it's tru by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 1

    at that point you either get the screenshot and a log or the user stops using the product. either way support costs goes way down.

    ... and it will drive your competitor's (client's new supplier) support costs up, as they will now have to deal with the silly screenshots...

  104. Passphrase by carbuck · · Score: 1

    Require them to type in a passphrase to dismiss the error. Similar to the "red 5" / "blue square" - each error has a specific word or phrase that must be typed in. They should remember if they just got the "Mickey Mouse" error, or the "OMG that's not good!" .

  105. Answers: Remote control & command line. by leuk_he · · Score: 1

    -Remote control of user desktop helps a lot.
    -Command line commands can be very simply instructed by support. (instead of "click on the rabbit icon")

  106. Icon selection by vlm · · Score: 2, Interesting

    For example, I was thinking about creating icons or logos to identify specific errors.

    Choice 1) I assume you have a company directory with pictures of personnel. Use them. "I got a Patty Sue error...". I have, in fact, done this. It is best to use well known personnel (the receptionist, the director, etc)

    Choice 2) I assume, being a slashdotter, you have a vast collection of Pr0n. Use them. "I got a Goatse error...". I threatened to do this, but never actually did it.

    Choice 3) Combine #1 and #2. This is by far the funniest if you make pictures that "us slashdotters" would recognize but the general public would be completely unaware of. "Well, I got an error message, it has those two women from accounting, and a cup..." "So, the error message has a bunch of lemons at a birthday party" "After it stopped working, I see a goat on the left side and the Mediterranean Sea on the right side"

    Much more boring, yet almost as illegal, is to violate copyright laws and include cartoons. Oh, you say you got a dilbert error? A family circus error, that'll take awhile to fix.

    --
    "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
  107. Dear Slashdot... by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 1

    ...I am an IT person who, with our crappy commercial software and half baked open source or in-house solutions, has a user base that no longer reads the endless, incomprehensible, tiny font hobbled, hex code laden error messages with which they are continuously pummeled. When my users complain, I treat them like dirt on open forums where they can see the general attitude of IT folks toward people who just want a tool to do their job, and suggest they go back to preschool or that the computer deliver electric shocks. I ignore the simple possibility that the users have simply become immune to the endless errors and bugs, and I instead whimper like a crack whore jonesing for another fix. My question is this: is it too late to salvage my life?

    For starters, where possible, the error wont actually close for them unless we enter an admin password to make it go away, and if they reboot to get rid of it (Task Manager is disabled on all client PC's) the machine will not open the application that crashed for 15 minutes.

    An IT guy tried something similar where I work many years ago. All the investigators ever found was the remains of one of his shoes in a drainage ditch several states away, and the word "Croatoan" carved in a nearby tree.

    1. Re:Dear Slashdot... by Isarian · · Score: 1

      I think we may have chicken-and-egg problem here.

      A lot of end-users seem to complain about cryptic error messages that make no sense, eventually becoming densitized and giving up on the idea of being a valuable asset in troubleshooting.

      A lot of admins complain about users who don't follow clear-cut, step-by-step directions who become burnt out by the apparent lack of interest the end users have in doing anything to help at all, even when it's clearly laid out.

      So, which came first?

  108. There's only one way: by XB-70 · · Score: 1

    I like to start with Green Eggs and Ham and work up. Eventually, they stop mouthing the words and are able to read whole sentences. Put lots of pictures in the error messages so that they can be sure to understand. Maybe add a 'treat door' in their cubicle. When they click on an error message, they get a candy.

    --
    *** Don't be dull.***
  109. Totally wrong approach by unixfan · · Score: 1

    One should never try to rely on users to give any kind of report other than layman symptoms. The application should create proper error logs which is then used to debug the error. (OSDial is such an example. It is a dialer and to save time we only need an indication on where the problem is to save time on the debug.)

    Of course this does not work unless you are the programmer, or have access to source. Windows is not particularly known for good logs.

  110. Re:This is a sore subject with me because it's tru by iangoldby · · Score: 1

    I had a support call once where the customer was 'interpreting' the error message I needed to know about. It wasn't exactly a long message - just one short line, but I didn't recognise the message from what he was telling me. Even when I asked him to read it to me verbatim, he still insisted on 'interpreting' it. Eventually I was reduced to asking him to spell it out to me. He clearly thought I was an imbercile, but I finally found out what was on the screen in front of him. It was nothing even remotely related to what he had been telling me; suddenly everything made sense and I immediately had all of the information I needed to provide a fix.

  111. Anonymous Coward by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I love haptic error feedback. Nothink like the "slap in the face" error, sure your users will remember it!

  112. There's nothing you can do by motorhead · · Score: 0

    Let's drink!

    --
    Employee Of the Month - Cyberdyne Systems Corporation - September 1997
  113. Re:Error messages are for the programmers, not use by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 1
    While it may be true in this particular case (that Error messages are for the programmers...), it is not true in general.

    Bill.Gatez@microsoft.com... : no such user => clearly a message to the user, not the programmer (hint: check that spelling!)
    Bad login or password => same thing
    IE6 no longer supported => not the programmer's problem either...

  114. Actually they just don't care by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I was trying to explain to my wife (who was pretty sciency, seems less so now) why I hated the way science/history are taught in school. I said they go on and on about the 'great minds' that history was kind to like Edison, but don't even mention people like Nikola Tesla. She proved my point by asking 'who?' I said Tesla, the guy Edison stole many of his inventions from and the father of AC power without which we couldn't have our nationwide power system. I start to explain why AC facilitates high voltage power lines (transformers) and why HVPLs are important (low power loss per distance) she stopped me and said don't explain it too me.

    And she wonders why I can't remember everything she says. While basically telling me tldl (listen).

    1. Re:Actually they just don't care by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That you, SuperInfinity?

  115. Re:This is a sore subject with me because it's tru by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They are correct to ignore the error most of the time. Errors like that are worthless when ignoring them "seems to work". Obviously many folks will try their best to make things work an all browsers, but if you're going to take that route, don't throw errors. Either it works or it doesn't, but don't show an error and then do your best with what you've got. If you need information, it should not be possible to proceed without it and the error should be there plain as day. Pop-ups are not OK, they can be dismissed and then you're back to what exactly? Then on the phone, you ask "what does it say on the screen?".

    Anything that can be dismissed will be dismissed and the user will think they took care of that problem - I made it go away.

  116. Make errors understandable by DJRumpy · · Score: 1

    Most errors spew garbage about Exception and Null Pointer, and No Resume, etc etc ad-nauseum. That will get an immediate non-response from an end user. Most importantly, you need something that a typical end user can understand. The technical error can always be logged elsewhere, but the information as presented to the end user can't be overly complex, overly long, or confusing (Keep It Simple Stupid). I can't stress that enough.

    If all else fails, you can randomize the 'chime' that's played for an error to grab their attention, as well as utilizing full screen errors to hide what their working on.

    You can also consider non-standard response dialogues/buttons that actually require them to read the button.

    We used non-standard modal dialog boxes, odd colors, plain text errors and consequences, and non-standard buttons to good result.

  117. Re:This is a sore subject with me because it's tru by radtea · · Score: 1

    You were walking the user through the process, and you never asked them what's on the screen?

    Users are not reliable sources of information. Anyone who has ever worked in support will tell you that asking a user what is on the screen is an almost pointless activity.

    About 30% of the time they will tell you the truth in terms that are meaningful, like "There is a dialog that says xyz".

    50% of the time they will tell you something, but it will be couched in terms that are meaningless or misleading. Users have a different conceptual universe than developers, and often give reports that are honest in their own terms but so figurative and metaphorical as to be useless for practical debugging.

    The remaining 20% of the time users will tell you something that is flat-out false, claiming there is no error dialog on the screen when there is, or reading off an error string that does not exist (or is clearly marked as from a different application!) and so on. They will claim the application will not start when it does, or tell you it is still running after it has crashed.

    So asking users what is on the screen is something support people always do, but they never expect to get accurate information back because much of the time they don't. In the case at hand, certain types of error dialog rapidly become invisible to users, and they will deny ever having seen them despite log files that clearly show they clicked on the OK button.

    --
    Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
  118. Users? by OMA1981 · · Score: 1

    ...I am still trying to find a way to get desktop support techs to read the error messages.

    --
    The less you talk, the more people hear you say.
  119. DO NOT STEAL FOCUS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I type away frenetically on a mail when all of a sudden a window pops up, takes focus, gets the space bar and disappears.

    Now what the #£$ did it say? I will never know.

    1. Re:DO NOT STEAL FOCUS by Isarian · · Score: 1

      I type away frenetically on a mail when all of a sudden a window pops up, takes focus, gets the space bar and disappears.

      Now what the #£$ did it say? I will never know.

      There is probably no other programming practice that pisses me off as much. Use needy windows if you have to, but capturing focus is the worst. So, how many people here have accidentally sent passwords to their work buddy because their IM program stole focus?

  120. Don't use "OK/Cancel" by mfnickster · · Score: 1

    As many others have pointed out, users have become conditioned to just click "OK" to proceed, even when that's not the best course of action.

    Put buttons on the dialog that make the user think about the answer:

    "I agree/Disagree"
    "Save in this directory/Choose another location"
    "Cancel import/Search for file"
    "Continue with errors/Ignore bad data"

    Of course, this assumes you have some control over the messages. If you're trying to get them to read messages from some third party, well...make it more painful when they don't! :)

    --
    "Slow down, Cowboy! It has been 3 years, 7 months and 26 days since you last successfully posted a comment."
  121. Looking at the problem wrong. by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 1
    Users want to keep doing whatever it is they are trying to do. If an unexpected popup displays, they click through it as quickly as possible. This isn't out of malice, but simply because they want to get their task finished. The quickest way to get it finished is to get this annoying message out of the way.

    When you accept that, you actually open up a few more options.

    • What is your message really saying? If it's more than a sentence, you're doing it wrong. Convey the point in as little text as possible, as clearly as possible - don't say "error code 10" because they won't remember it. Say "printer offline". Make the phrasing of different messages far enough separated so that even when someone tells you that they received a message like "printer purple monkey dishwasher", you still know what it means.
    • Use non-modal overlay notifications like firefox does to tell you that something wants to be installed. They stay there until the user actually sees them but they don't get in the way.
    • Is the error serious? Why aren't you capturing it systematically and submitting to a central destination?
    • Should the error block the user from proceeding? If it's that serious why don't you shut down the application? If it's not that serious, re-think it, which leads into...
    • Do you have too many errors to capture systematically? Then why are you displaying all of them? Does the user really need to know about them?

    That last point is key. Do not waste the user's time telling them something they don't need to care about. We have only ourselves to blame - for years we have been thrusting annoying, pointless, and confusing messages into the generations of software developers popping annoying messages into the user's face -- effectively training them to ignore the messages. Many of those messages are things that users do not need to know or care about - so don't slow them down with the information.

    Finally, keep in mind that users aren't necessarily looking at the screen. I can't count how many times I''ve seen people staring at their keyboards and continue typing blithely while a message is displayed and input is being ignored. Usually this leads to one of two things: a) user sees their typing is lost, gets annoyed, and clicks through the stupid message preventing them for working, or b) user hits the Enter or space key in the course of their typing, and dismisses the message without ever realizing it was there.

    1. Re:Looking at the problem wrong. by thsths · · Score: 1

      > Users want to keep doing whatever it is they are trying to do.

      Exactly. And pop-up messages are annoying, pop-up errors doubly so. And on top of that, in my experience most error message are wrong, in that they may not give the actual reason for a failure, and they offer no alternative course of action.

      "Transaction error: data could not be saved. Please try again later. [OK]" - Seems pretty good, hm? No, it is terrible, because it fails to answer the essential questions: where is the problem? is someone working on it? how long does it take? how should I continue?

      Make your error messages helpful, and users will appreciate them. Make it say "1 entry stored locally until server becomes available, scheduled for 11:00am." on the top of the next page.

    2. Re:Looking at the problem wrong. by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 1
      The problem is that it may be too late for the useful errors - users are now so well trained to dismiss them without comprehending them that they may not be retrainable. I do agree though - far too often an error is either misleading, or simply wasting the user's time telling them something they can not correct in the first place.

      "Transaction error: data could not be saved. Please try again later. [OK]" - Seems pretty good, hm? No, it is terrible, because it fails to answer the essential questions: where is the problem? is someone working on it? how long does it take? how should I continue?

      Even more: THe last one is most important. Do I have to do my work again? Do I need to call someone? What do I tell the customer waiting on the phone?

      More and more, I am coming to think that applications reporting system errors to users -- especially without instruction or hint of what to do next -- are examples of design failures. If the user can't correct it, you shouldn't be telling them about it.

  122. Re:This is a sore subject with me because it's tru by houghi · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I have had the "filtering out" as well when I tried to explain somebody where to enter the internal domain name. They kept using google and obviously did not get to the screen. So I went to a screen that I knew they were able to see and ask what they saw. I noticed that they skipped information and asked them if they saw X. The answer was "Yes".

    Even when i told the person that I needed each and every detail they saw, they kept filtering out importand stuff.

    Again, this was just WHERE they needed to put the URL so they could go to the correct page. i tried explaining it with:
    What do you see on top in the blue bar? The answer was "Nothing". Do you see the blue E with "Shlashdot Comments" (as I see now)? "Yes" What is written next to it? They gave the correct answer. What is right below it? "Nothing". Do you see a field that says "http://...."? "Yes" What does that field say? "Nothing".

    Took me about an hour to get it explained where they needed to type "http://intranet". My guess is that some people rather give no information then give the wrong information.

    --
    Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
  123. Re:Error messages are for the programmers, not use by troll8901 · · Score: 1

    1. Why does your application care about the browser ID string so much that it is unusable when there is an unexpected value?

    That's a good point. Hey, ip_freely_2000, can't you force all the HP staff to use Netscape Navigator 2.0, and simply use HTML 2.0 in your programming? Why were you trying to detect the User Agent ID?

    2. Why didn't your application phone home with the higher error levels so the application experts (i.e. you) could diagnose the problem?

    That's another good question. YOU are the ISV. You should tell HP, they should allow your software to contact your Internet servers - especially if your software deals with confidential data! Your convenience should come before HP's need to protect data!

    It's funny that you blame this problem on your customer. Is this startup you were working for still in business?

    I agree with cryfreedomlove. Your ISV must be so silly to comply with HP's wishes, it must have collapsed.

  124. The puppy idea is close. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But people will not remember if they saw a puppy or a kitten. You have to show them something they cannot forget.

    "Ok, so when the error came up, did you see goatse or tubgirl?"

  125. is that the right question in this story? by roman_mir · · Score: 1

    how do you get users to read?

    Looks like for the software that you are maintaining the question is different: how do you train the users to do what they do without getting the errors?

    I am working on a system that is very new to its users and some of the functionality is much too complex for them to understand intrinsically (actually it requires them to use some simplified form of a regular expression for searching of data they need.) This wouldn't work for internet search for 99% of population, so it's not done that way, but in a corporate setup, sometimes specialized functionality is needed.

    So, I put in enough logging and monitored the users actually try to search for various items in real time. It did 2 things for me: 1. I called a user when I saw that he/she was trying to search for something, but they clearly misunderstood how to do it. I called them and immediately explained what they needed, before they became frustrated and gave up or maybe worse, accepted the wrong results as if they were correct.

    2. I added these types of errors that I detected users doing to a manual page explaining how to use the search.

    Now, obviously it is still a useless page if nobody reads it, but it is part of the manual and for power use of this application a little manual should be read, otherwise the user will not know what to do at all.

    Logging + preventive work, calling them as you observe them trying to do something that will not actually generate an error (in my case) but give them incorrect/incomplete results, because what they do is not the correct way of using the application.

    Later it became obvious that more functionality needed to be added - certain types of search are a bit too complex, so adding a screen with different types of searches being named and the appropriate search expression right there, to be used, instead of typing it by hand.

    Just 'reading errors' may not really be the right question, why are these errors happening? Are these system errors (runtime errors, network failures, something a user is not responsible for) or are these user generated errors (input errors, incorrect sequence of actions and such.)

    For the first problem you will just have to do more logging and save information to check on it later, and provide users with very generic 'system error, please contact help desk' or some such. For the second problem it maybe that you need to produce a manual and do training, some business software really cannot be used without training, it's not software for everyone to use at home, so it's not built for people with no knowledge of the business domain and processes in the first place. As part of their jobs they probably are expected to understand how to use their software correctly and effectively.

  126. Re:Explaining error messges is what support is for by domatic · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Eventually, someone cut to the heart of the issue from there side. Basically, he said "Do you know how much I pay each year for my support contract? No? Well, it's a lot. If I have any problems that don't fix themselves in under five minutes, I'm going to pick up the phone and call you. I'm paying you to support me if I have trouble, I shouldn't have to troubleshoot it myself."

    Perhaps so but there is a big difference between not knowing how to use your crap and your crap being broke. So in cases like this, you have to clearly establish whether "technical support" includes "training".

    All that said, I arrange things so that I automate or just do for the users as many things as possible because most of them can only be bothered to learn things by rote which they write on a sticky note....usually with passwords right on it.

  127. Re:If clicking the OK box makes the error go away. by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 1

    A, the subtle difference between a non-fatal and a fatal error...

  128. Very simple by Ancient_Hacker · · Score: 1

    Very simple. Get a coding wiz to write a background app that hooks into the OS and whenever it sees a error dialog box pop up, it either captures the text or does a screen dump to a file.

  129. or Validation Code. by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I wrote the registration software for a student run job fair. Spelled out on the first page are a few ground rules "We cannot accept credit cards" etc.

    Every single semester we'd get some rep that "never saw that" or claimed we "changed the rules".

    The final iteration that seemed to work was a 2 - 5 digit, randomly generated 'validation codes' that was in the 2nd and 4th paragraphs.

    We'd often get the HR rep that would e-mail us:
    "Did you read the instructions?"
    "Yes"
    "Everything you need is in the instructions."

    Occasionally get we'd get some irate HR rep:
    "You e-mailed me that they were in the instructions. I can't find them anywhere. We have to register now."
    (and this is where you play dumb)
    "Oh, I'm so sorry. They should be in the instructions. It may be a software bug. Could you please read the instructions to us". ...... "Your first validation code is: 23984. Payment methods are Check or Cash. No credit cards are accepted."
    "Do you have any more questions". (Although usually you'd just get a click after they hit the words "Your validation code is".

    1. Re:or Validation Code. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      I'd provide instructions that credit cards are not accepted, and then have a box asking for the credit card. When someone tries to enter their card, error out saying credit cards are not accept, you idiot.

  130. suggestions by obarthelemy · · Score: 1

    1- do away with error messages. Have suggestions instead, like "You need to initialize a data file to do that", with whatever file initialization menu you have
    2- automate error messages: have a very easy way to send the error log to the help desk, so that at least you don't have to re-walk the user through the whole error
    3- have a good UI that actually helps users to avoid mistakes
    4- show them how helpful error messages are, saving them time and the humiliation of having to call support.
    5- bill for support
    6- train your users to handle error messages at the same time you train them to use apps
    7- belabor that point during support calls: don't solve the problem for them, show them how they can solve it by themselves

    --
    The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
  131. Make a better interface by eples · · Score: 1

    You could always make the software easier to use.
    Your description sounds like the errors are because the user "didn't do something right".

    Why not accommodate the thought and usage patterns of your users instead of forcing them to memorize a cryptic list of "things to click on to get this thing to work".

    --
    I'm a 2000 man.
  132. my mums learned by ddfire · · Score: 1

    i teached my mum how to read the f*** messages... i just stand in front of the monitor and asked her to read the message, then i asked her to explain me the error, the first 10 times she read the message it was like "perss esc key to solve all problems in your life" and she answered i dosent understand, i make she reads the message like ten times until she reads it like a human and not like a robot. now or she read and proccess the messages or she is to affraid to ask me... any way, thats worked

  133. True Story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A user phones up the helpdesk...

    User: I just got an error message on my screen
    Helpdesk: OK, what does the error message say?
    User: I don't know I just clicked Cancel and it went away
    Helpdesk: ???!
     

  134. Full Screen Stop by mbone · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I have had similar problems, and have found that

    - a full screen fatal error message and

    - a stop of all activity

    is necessary to get most people to pay attention to an error message. Otherwise, people will ignore even the most dire warnings.

    1. Re:Full Screen Stop by Lazypete · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I have an idea... we should put a timer on the ok/continue button.. but not to prevent them from clicking it... no.. to know how fast they clicked it...Imagine..

      Error message sayong something, user click ok.. other screen saying you can't have read that error message in 1.23546 seconds... that impossible... please read the error message carefully before continuing... then the ok button would bring back the last error.

  135. Simple, really: A timeout. by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

    I calculate the time to read the message (normal speed), and multiply it by the importance factor. (Warnings: x1.5, errors x2)
    The dialog’s closing button is counting this down. But not second by second, as this creates pressure which distracts from reading.

    Also the big title of the window consists of the worst-case implication in case of ignoring it.

    E.g. doing something that could result in a trojan/rootkit being installed, would look like this: “DANGER! You could go to jail for this!”

    Also, to keep things fresh, one could randomize the whole layout and positioning of the dialog. But I don’t think it’s nessecary.

    --
    Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    1. Re:Simple, really: A timeout. by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      I forgot: You still have to close the window yourself after the timeout. And the time does only run while the window is on top and the mouse moved very recently. (Both obvious, but I think someone might point out that I did not mention it.)

      Firefox does something like this. But the timeout is a bit short and actually distracts (by causing stress) more than it helps.

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
  136. You can lead a horse to water by houghi · · Score: 1

    but you can't make it to drink. So the best way would be to take over their PC. As long as there is no connection issue, then this is much faster and will save you a lot of time. If you use pc Anywhere or http://showmypc.com/ or anything else will depend on your needs.

    ShowMyPc has helped me a lot already. For occasional usage it is free. I you want your own server andadvertising, prices are available as well and not that expensive.

    But again, Internet access should be available.

    --
    Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
  137. Why not just send the error directly to ... by lorg · · Score: 1

    While it might get slightly better results then just showing ye old wacky error message I predict you'll get the "the what now icon in the corner? I didn't see any icon in the corner" respons. If you can implement something like this to alter the error messages why not just have it send the error message directly to the helpdesk "[user] has experienced the following error .. blahblah" and a full (or as full as you wish) report enclosed. Problem is helpdesk might get utterly flooded and stop reading the error messages or just pipe them all of to dev/nul.

  138. Two phrases by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you have been working in tech support as long as you say you should already be familiar with two specific phrases: "please show me / do what it was you were doing when the error came up" and "read me the exact error message you just got." The rest of this is a waste of time. If they want to be rude and Not do these two things you ask just inform them to write the error done the nex time they get it and backburner them until they do.

  139. Not such a bad idea but... by gravis777 · · Score: 1

    Couple of things. In my experience, if its a single error, that pops up fairly frequently and the user can reproduce it, they will give you the error message. If not, then you can follow their steps to reproduce the error message. If they can't remember the error, can't get it to pop up, then tell the user that you are not creating a ticket at that time, and for them to call back when the error appears, and then you can remote assist them.

    If users are rapidly clicking through error messages, then either something such as your login script is generating errors on their computer, or they got spyware.

    In the end of the day, I think creating custom error messages is going to be more trouble than its worth - just play some tough love and mention that you cannot help them if they cannot tell you what the problem is. This may frustrate them at first, but it won't take long at all before attitude changes. Otherwise, they are wasting their time and yours while you "investigate the situation".

  140. You can't make them read... by mhkohne · · Score: 1

    Nothing you can do will get the users to read the message. NOTHING. The best you can do is to make sure that the error will live in a log somewhere (with timestamps and perhaps screen shots if possible) so that you can figure out what they are talking about.

    There's simply no way to force people to pay attention to error messages on the screen - they are focused on doing something, and the error dialog is in the way, so they dismiss it as fast as possible. Then they complain that it's not working.

    There's just no way around it - they won't read, they don't read, and they can't be made to read. Give up trying to make them read, and instead find a way to get information in the absence of user assistance.

    --
    A thousand pounds of wood moving at 300 feet per minute. Don't get in the way.
  141. You don't "fix" stupid, you fire it. by SuperBanana · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ultimately you can't fix stupid.

    You absolutely can. It's very easy: discipline people and if they keep doing it, fire them.

    It'll probably only take one person before everyone else starts paying more attention. In this economy, it's easy to find replacements (especially if the people in your company are really this stupid.) Lots of folks out there looking for something better than Walmart or flippin' burgers.

    1. Re:You don't "fix" stupid, you fire it. by schon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You absolutely can.

      Sorry, no.

      It's very easy: discipline people and if they keep doing it, fire them.

      That doesn't fix the stupid, it just moves it somewhere else. And how, exactly, does this work when the stupid is in management?

      It'll probably only take one person before everyone else starts paying more attention.

      Bullshit. The stupid people will continue to be stupid, and blame you for not making their problems go away.

    2. Re:You don't "fix" stupid, you fire it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bullshit. The stupid people will continue to be stupid, and blame you for not making their problems go away.

      It's often a matter of perspective and context who are stupid. Does the company exist to make the IT support guys happy, or does the IT support exist to do make the problems go away for fx the sales guy that is bringing in a lot of dollars to the company but couldn't find his way around a computer if his life dependent on it?

    3. Re:You don't "fix" stupid, you fire it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, it does. They will eventually starve to death. We just need to cancel all kinds of universal health-care and social-care. Oh, wait...

  142. Reading not a technical problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This isn't a problem with computers or electronics, its a problem with that people cannot or don't READ what is in front of them. They lack any self-motivation to learn and as a result when something appears broken they assume it is. Basically everyone is such an idiot that if they hadn't been taught which end food goes in their bodies then they probably would all be dead by 3 years old.

  143. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  144. Paperwork by mmmmbeer · · Score: 1

    If possible, force people to fill out paperwork when making a support request. People hate paperwork, even if it's short and easy, so they will be willing to do a little actual thinking to avoid it. If the paperwork asks them to copy the text of the error message, it may prompt the user to actually read the message. Those users who can't even handle something that simple will hopefully ask someone more than half-capable, who will solve the problem without bothering you. At the very least, you will hopefully get the text of the error message so you can read it.

  145. re: Great point, but .... by King_TJ · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think the core problem is, perhaps, with the mindset of most software developers. They think logically and prefer a computer to immediately notify them about exactly what's wrong, as soon as an issue arises. They're also accustomed to the traditional way errors are reported, and feel most comfortable making things stick to "tried and true" methods.

    The typical user, however, doesn't see any of that as advantageous or even sensible.

    Take the example you mentioned, where your users were clicking through a dialog that detects hardware is missing, and then complaining about the main UI coming up and telling them the hardware is not connected. To a user, they've got a specific process they want the machine to complete, and they'd like to go through the required steps they memorized to do the process without any unexpected interruptions in the middle of the input. Such interruptions lead to them "clicking through" the boxes without reading them.

    So what would improve this? I think users would like computers to ignore error conditions until they're done with all input related to performing an operation, for starters. Don't want them to click through a warning dialog? Ok ... then don't present them with it until the end. (EG. If a printer is disconnected, either notify them of this state BEFORE they even begin inputting anything into the portion of your application that generates printed reports, or hold off until they're finished and they click "print". At that point, give them a friendly error telling them the printer seems to be disconnected, and their print job will complete automatically, once they re-attach it.)

    On the same note, *friendly* error messages are key, too. I can't begin to count the number of times I've received an error dialog box in an application that told me nothing useful. I know something just went wrong in the program, but that's about it. Some apps like to dump a bunch of numerical error codes at the user, with expectations that somehow, this data will get forwarded on to one of the programmers who actually understands it. In reality? There's a near 0% chance of that ever happening! The developers at most companies are insulated from the end-users by layers of "customer service and support" people. And what about apps no longer being actively supported at all? Their developers have moved on and probably don't even REMEMBER what those numerical error codes mean anymore if you COULD contact them!

    It's no wonder users just "click through" the error boxes these days! They're conditioned to expect the messages do nothing to help them.

  146. "Olfactory Feedback" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Oh man, olfactory feedback! I wonder what a UAC dialogue would smell like.

  147. you just need better messsages by PJ6 · · Score: 1

    Don't insult users with pictures of puppies. They may have fear problems using computers (yes, I find this is still the case) but generally speaking, no matter how dumb they may seem using software, people usually know their jobs extremely well; consider it your duty to defer to end-users as experts of their own domains, whether or not they can express themselves in the language you expect. Work with their strengths, not their weaknesses. Tag all task-specific methods (DAO and up) with attributes containing descriptions that will be meaningful to those likely to invoke them. This will allow you to supply plain-English stack traces when something goes wrong, ones that are both recognizable and memorable to those who will read them. In addition, all (unexpected) exceptions should be automatically logged. You should know about and be working on the problem before the user calls, and generally speaking they should never have to call.

  148. Consider that some of us are exclusively verbal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I was thinking about creating icons or logos

    Remember that there are some people (like me) who are exclusively verbal, and for us, icons rarely provide any information.

    I often do not "get" what an icon is supposed to be a picture of, and when I do occasionally recognize an icon, it is often far too generic for me to relate it to a task. (For example, I can recognize a screen-and-keyboard icon, but I have no ability to map that into a meaningful function.) I think the only icon I have ever "gotten" has been a question-mark-in-a-circle to represent "click this if you have a question".

    Just remember that some of us just automatically skip over all icons, and focus only on words.

  149. Stop fighting a losing battle... by jbreiding · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Stop trying to change the user, its much easier to change application. The application should be collecting evidence anytime an error is encountered. To make it easier on the user there should be some sort of builtin mechanism to collect this evidence. Software is built to make things easier and less complex for the user. The collection of this evidence could be triggered when any error occurs and then transmitted to the source developers when an error occurs. Think about microsoft error reporting. Be proactive and when an error occurs have a help desk incident created and contact the end user to solve the problem if it occurs multiple times. Help stop the user from hitting their thumbs with the error if they don't learn from the pain the first time. Its possible the end user could just get frustrated enough and blame the hammer. With the end result being the end user throwing away the hammer and going out to buy a new one. When they hit their thumb again they aren't going to think that they are doing something wrong, users never do.

  150. "Danger Will Robinson!" by Ronin441 · · Score: 1

    I've done this.

    The "Danger Will Robinson!" bit, I mean.

    A third-party app used to die and shit Paradox .lck files, which would then prevent it working when you restarted it. So I wrote an app which would clean them up, but it was important that the third-party app not be running when you cleared the locks.

    So often customers would call me, I'd recognise that the problem was bogus .lcks, and I'd tell them to start up my .lck-clearer. Normally on a tech call you have to keep asking them, "What are you seeing now?" or, "Do you see such-and-such?". But with this app, as soon as they got it running, they'd see the page explaining to them why they should only press the button to clear .lcks when the third party app was not running, with the aforementioned text emblazoned across the top in 36-point bold, and they'd say, "Danger Will Robinson". And I'd know they were looking at the right screen.

  151. Multiple Choice by MaQleod · · Score: 1

    Make them answer a multiple choice question based off of the error given, if they answer wrong, the error is displayed again, and again and again, until they pay attention and answer it right.

  152. everyone's joking so here's a serious reply by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    you can't as each popup is seen as something "in the way" of obtaining the user desired result, no matter what, even if the operation did by the user makes totally no sense in the given context.

    one principle of design is not to allow the user to perform operations that cannot be completed. so for example if you're on a client/server application graying out each window during a disconnection will effectively tells the user that no operation could be done at the moment. couple that with a colorful status message like a "trying to reconnect" progress bar and now you're sure that the user won't try to retry the operations each time dismissing the "unable to connect" error popup without reading it.

  153. You don't. by VinylPusher · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Users will /not/ read error messages. Office workers are the worst for this.

    We use a horrible bespoke system which I've somehow managed to end up supporting. Most of the error messages which pop up are cryptic, internally specific, standard Delphi error messages. That's if we even get to /see/ an error. Sometimes the app just silently fails and you have to know that clicking on another action button will allow you to switch away from the failed task.

    If you want users to act appropriately in an error situation, it's best to (and this is in order of preference, highest first): -

    1) Not end up in an error situation.
    2) Make it very difficult for users to create an error situation.
    3) Inline-highlight any user entry which may cause an error situation, before the commit a task. Potentially with a little tooltip /warning/ (not a blocking error dialog!).
    4) Suggest alternate values for user-input where they have entered an erroneous value. At least provide an example.
    5) Show a very context-specific message which explains the error. Provide a link to the help text.

    The main idea is to avoid interrupting the user's train of thought whilst they are (trying) to use your software. If every error results in a 'blah blah blah, click OK to continue' dialog, it pisses people off.

    Users see errors as the fault of the software first. I suppose what we're talking about here is interface etiquette. You shouldn't insult users or make them feel stupid. The best example I can think of is in Google's "did you mean ....?" interaction. It doesn't get more elegant than that.

    If you absolutely must interrupt the user's workflow due to an uncorrectible error, tell them exactly what happened, suggest how it can be fixed and make the thing easy to read. Tall, narrow window is easier to read than wide, short window full of error text. Highlight very clearly the steps the user needs to take to get rid of your error message and continue on with their work. Most likely, this is the only text they will read. How many times have you heard "how do I get rid of this?" or "something came up on the screen and I don't know what to do"?

    OK, granted, some people are still so blind/dumb that they won't take any notice. Those people will either call their tech, or at least nudge someone in the same office 'who knows a bit about computer stuff' to come over and take a look.

  154. Learn a thing from spam and scareware by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    Everyone reads those. Everyone. You could flash people with strobe lights and not get more attention than scareware and spam gets. So why not copy their behaviour?

    Scare the user into reading your error message. Tell him in no uncertain terms that you close his bank account and make his monitor explode if he does not read carefully what you want to tell him and follow the orders.

    It seems to work...

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  155. Don't rely on users at all by thadmiller · · Score: 1

    If you can manage it, don't rely on users at all.

    This won't work for everyone, but as a medium sized company with its internal software being a web-service, we have the system email errors to ourselves (developers). Perhaps it's a waste of bandwidth and my mailbox, but the benefits outweigh the cost - dramatically.

    Doing this, you have the error message within your grasps, and rarely have to rely on users to tell you what they did wrong. It also gives use the ability to quickly recognize any bugs that make it into the system. Of course it's not 100% foolproof, but it has REALLY helped us, since you absolutely cannot count on the user to do the right thing, read the right thing, or pay attention to anything.

  156. Fix the problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    i think users would start to pay attention if the program gave the user a way to fix it and not just an error code that wants to send information back to the main server. if you really gave the user an easy way to fix the error, many more people would try to fix the problem. where it stand now, is its just an annoyence to most people when all they want to do is use the email (which they may have a hard time even using that haha) thats how i feel at least.

  157. Put an animated gif of shaking boobs over the error message. 100% guaranteed read.

    1. Re:Boobs by Isarian · · Score: 1

      Put an animated gif of shaking boobs over the error message. 100% guaranteed read.

      Followed by a 100% guaranteed "gender sensitivity" seminar.

  158. Test them by goffster · · Score: 1

    After the dialog is dismissed, give them a multiple choice question
    about what the error said.

  159. A "puppy error" ? Turn in your BOFH title, pls by axl917 · · Score: 1

    /facepalm

  160. Users?? by Slash.Poop · · Score: 1

    Hell, I am an admin and I don't read error message.
    If the same thing pops up 2 or 3 times then I might read it.

    TRUTH.

  161. TL;DR by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Please note this error number: #1234. You will need it if you contact technical support.

    The program was unable to update the application preferences file. That is the file that stores the settings you have chosen for things like preferred document styles and last document viewed (choose "More Information" for details).

    File updates can fail when the security permissions on the preferences file or directory ave been set to prevent changes; when more than one program is editing the preferences file at the same time; or when the computer's file system is damaged.

    You can check for these kinds of problems (chose "More help" for instructions) then choose "Retry" to see if the problem is solved. If you choose "Ignore Error" the program will continue without saving any preference changes. If this error persists it is recommended that you check the security settings, permissions and integrity of your filesystem.

    [More information] [Retry] [Ignore Error]

    tl,dr

    Seriously. You might as well make "Ignore error" the default.

    1. Re:TL;DR by hey! · · Score: 1

      Why?

      I've in fact written error messages this way for years. I've found it extremely helpful. About 80% of users ignore the text at first, but that's a hell of a lot better than leaving 100% of the users up the creek.

      The problem is that users are not accustomed to error messages that try to help them. Over time users begin to realize that there's useful information, and many tech support problems are reduced in severity. Eventually the program itself gets better, because of the thought that has to be put into common error conditions and the feedback from support.

      If you are going to fail, fail in a big, obvious and *transparent* way.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  162. make the read for comprehension by fuzzylollipop · · Score: 1

    make the buttons dependent on them actually reading the message and having to answer a question that shows they read the text to get to the next screen. Then they have to click the correct button to get past the alert. Be sure and move the button around position wise so they don't just click the rightmost button everytime.

  163. seriously... by Chapter80 · · Score: 1

    I have one relevant anecdote that I have told before...

    Our application had a delete button, that performed a permanent delete (like deleting something from your recycle bin). And we popped up a message that stated that this action was irreversible. But we continued to get requests from users to "undelete" items - several requests per month.

    We finally changed the pop-up to force the user to key in the word "irreversible", prior to performing the irreversible deletion.

    We haven't received a request to undelete since then - which has been several years by now.

    PS, before you write back and say that this is a poor user interface, and you should always allow users to undo their actions, the "permanent delete" function was specified by the economic buyer, and it was a non-negotiable item.

    1. Re:seriously... by MrBandersnatch · · Score: 1

      Very interesting solution.

    2. Re:seriously... by mrrudge · · Score: 1

      World of Warcarft demands you type in DELETE to delete a char, or even to destoy some higher level items.

  164. 1/0 in the compactification of the reals by tepples · · Score: 1

    If i'm writing a calculator and the user types/clicks 4 / 0 - tell me what behavior is appropriate.

    If your calculator is intended to work with floating point numbers, display "Infinity". This represents the limit of 1/x as x approaches 0, as seen in the compactification of the real number line. This brings up what to do with Inf * 0; IEEE has a result for that: "Not a number".

    1. Re:1/0 in the compactification of the reals by steveb3210 · · Score: 1

      If that division problem was an intermediate result as part of a larger forumla what should it do with not a number when it tries to multiply it by 10 or take an average? Essentially, Is "Not a Number" an error message or a result?

    2. Re:1/0 in the compactification of the reals by tepples · · Score: 1

      IEEE 754 explains how to handle NaN: NaN * 10 = NaN. (NaN + 5 + 7) / 3 = NaN. Or the user can turn on "Ignore NaN in Averages" to make it act like MATLAB, which treats NaNs much like SQL treats NULLs in aggregate functions: AVG([NaN, 5, 7]) = AVG([5, 7]).

    3. Re:1/0 in the compactification of the reals by steveb3210 · · Score: 1

      IEEE 754 explains how to handle NaN: NaN * 10 = NaN. (NaN + 5 + 7) / 3 = NaN.

      So its an error message... My point was that the OP was being silly in saying that error messages were completely unnecessary.

    4. Re:1/0 in the compactification of the reals by misiu_mp · · Score: 1

      The user did not ask for a limit of division when the divisor approaches 0 but the number representing mathematical result of dividing another number in zero even parts. Mathematics assigns no meaning to such operation (it is not defined). Claiming it will get you infinity is either mathematical blasphemy or utter ignorance. The fact that IEEE might define a state for when a cpu tries to calculate it (NaN - which btw really is NOT a number), does not change the cold fact that doing so is an error and has to result in an error message.

  165. Cut & Paste. by Hasai · · Score: 1

    When one of our more, ah, "intellectually challenged" personnel call the help desk, the first thing I have my people do is have the employee do a screen capture and send it to the help desk. Email if it's not the problem, print if it is.
    If the employee just plowed through the message without recording it, our SOP is "Reboot. Give us a call when you have a screen capture for us; otherwise we can't troubleshoot your problem."

    Possible programming approach: Have the program itself do the screen capture and email. Package the logs with it.

    --

    Regards;

    Hasai

  166. Because error messages never make sense! by adric22 · · Score: 1

    The main reason most users don't bother reading error messages is because they aren't used to having messages that are informative. PC LOAD LETTER is an excellent example, but in many cases with products the error messages may even be clear, but they aren't accurate. How many times have we seen a program give an error message about "insufficient memory" or something to that effect. So the user (if they read it) believes that they need a RAM upgrade in their computer. After you research the message, you find out that it really has nothing to do with memory and was in fact some totally unrelated problem. If programmers spent more time creating accurate error messages, maybe people would read them.

  167. Lock down the system by newdsfornerds · · Score: 1

    Do whatever is possible to make it IMpossible for users to install ANYTHING. Install pop-up blockers. That would be a start. And good luck with taking anything away from the end users, Glynn.

    --
    Damping absorbs vibrations. Dampening is caused by moisture.
  168. Sending the log? by tepples · · Score: 1

    A better solution would be to simply write a log of the error message when the box is generated, then you don't need to rely on the user to do much of anything.

    Except figure out how to upload the log file to the support system.

  169. I have opposite problem by Brett+Buck · · Score: 1

    Whenever I have a problem, and call the IT department in our huge company, I can't get anyone to pay attention to the error message. I say "I got an error message saying xxxx". They say, "uh, yeah, that's great, we are going to re-image your machine".

            Brett

  170. Solution: Install monitoring s/w by managerialslime · · Score: 1

    Some of my users are either overwhelmed with multiple distractions or uncomfortable with technology or both. In any case, my team is responsible for figuring out what triggered error conditions and getting them fixed regardless of user cooperation or contribution.

    When users do not give detailed and accurate information about an error condition and what they were doing prior to the error condition, there are some creative options available.

    The CNET.com download site has any number of screen monitoring products (i.e e-Surveiller, The Best Keylogger, Shadow Keylogger, Local Keylogger Pro, etc.) for recording and monitoring PC activity. These products not only record keystrokes, but also provide screenshots and/or video.

    For my users, I always let them know before installing such software and let them know that any performance impact will only be until we identify the error conditions and the activities that triggered the error conditions. (We also notified all employees in the employee handbook that we do this and also have the employees re-sign their understanding of this every year.)

    By using these tools, we can reduce problem-solving time and associated user frustration.

    --
    Live Long and Prosper - Thanks Leonard. You are missed.
    1. Re:Solution: Install monitoring s/w by andrewd18 · · Score: 1

      ...any number of screen monitoring products (i.e e-Surveiller, The Best Keylogger, Shadow Keylogger, Local Keylogger Pro, etc.) for recording and monitoring PC activity.

      I'm sorry, but coupling this statement with your username makes me laugh out loud.

  171. Focus on robustness by Fastolfe · · Score: 1

    It depends on the nature of the application. But I'd start trying to make the application less reliant on error messages to begin with.

    Some error messages reflect some external dependency that can't be satisfied. Try to convert some of those error messages to "Please wait while I keep retrying, click here to cancel" messages, which then become "I'm still trying. If you think something's broken, call the helpdesk at ___". Don't interrupt the user with an error message, just try again for them. Bonus points if your retry mechanism can fall back to different systems or systems in different regions.

    Some types of error messages don't even need an error message, you just need to change the UI to highlight a mistake the user made. Field validation errors, for instance, should just point out the broken fields and maybe add a blurb of text about what's a legal value there.

    Some types of error messages can be worked around, or aren't really important in the grand scheme of things. If the users probably aren't going to care that something didn't work, don't bother them about it. Make the error easily discoverable if they need to investigate why their externally-hosted images didn't appear, but there's no reason this needs to be an error message popping up in their face.

    All of these, plus the truly exceptional errors like crashes, should be logged to local disk, and also to a server on the network. It should be possible for you to pull up all of the problems a user is having, when they call you, or even be proactive and notice a lot of people are having the same problems doing X. You could even have monitoring in place that watched for clusters of the same errors, and send out pages to your technicians before users even have a chance to call you.

  172. Oh, I dunno, try making the error messages useful? by gestalt_n_pepper · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Imagine this scenario in a restaurant:

    Your steak is burned on one side, but cold. There's a big pile of a yellow granular unidentified substance piled on top of it. Your waiter comes along and says, "Cook's oven not functioning correctly and unknown substance spilled on top." OK?

    In short, most error messages are crap. The blame lies with LAZY system designers and LAZY developers.

    I can't tell you how many times, I see error messages like "Default zone not selected.: OK?" or "Type error on search processing object 23: OK?" Every time I see this crap, I want to bitch slap some lazy son of a bitch and ban all dialogs that only have the "OK" button as a response.

    The CORRECT response to the first example above is something like. "Sorry, you need to select a default zone first. Shall I bring up the dialog that allows you do to this?: "Yes", "No", "Cancel"
    The CORRECT response to the second example above is to fire the lazy system designer and/or programmer who couldn't be bothered to come up with an intelligent useful response to an error and because of their laziness, wasted thousands of hours of user time, just so they could take an early lunch.

    --
    Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
  173. Cluebat, AKA the LART by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    You need a policy along the lines that if you want it fixed, you provide the error message. If people are too dim to copy-paste or make a screenshot then it's time to recycle them for pet food.

    But you'll need buy-in from management to get anywhere with that, so good luck. A particular red flag is if you start hearing emotive language like "well if you don't want to help...". - in that case get out while you can, before the whining retards gang up on you.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  174. Worlds longest error message by jacobsm · · Score: 1

    Has got to be z/OS's IDC3009I message where the combination's of return and reason codes go on for 5165 lines in the message manual.

  175. Boobies by dbkluck · · Score: 1

    How do you get users to read error messages? Simple. Put pictures of naked ladies on them. How do you think Michelangelo got the common folk to be interested in looking at "art"? Added bonus: Easy to describe the errors. Like your "puppy error," but more fun. "Hello, tech support? Yeah, I've got the blond chick in the shower... Oh, okay, just check to make sure the network cable's plugged in, got it."

  176. a way of Partition Magic and my own advice by azh · · Score: 1

    In the DOS version of good old Partition Magic OK button was grayed out until the user typed OK in a text box. This was done in some important dialogs, like one for full format of the partition. Also you may try to set a delay and prohibit to close dialog box till its end.

  177. Reboot then re-image by friedpo · · Score: 2, Funny

    I trained all of my users to do screenshots when possible, because if they don't, the machine gets re-imaged. It's kind of like a shock collar for a dog.

    1. Re:Reboot then re-image by Culture20 · · Score: 1

      I trained all of my users to do screenshots when possible, because if they don't, the machine gets re-imaged. It's kind of like a shock collar for a dog.

      I just re-image them on a random schedule in the middle of the night. It's like the electrodes that psych students attach to mice's water bottles to see how strong the urge to drink is.

  178. Ever tried..... by Tanuki64 · · Score: 1

    ....opening a popup with naked women in it? Error message in a speech bubble? Should draw the attention of at least 50% of all computer users. :-D

  179. Getting Admins to read manuals... by Fujisawa+Sensei · · Score: 1

    Not sure how you get lusers to read error messages. But the best way to get Admins to RTFM is to disguise the manual as smut. They will read every word trying to find it.

    Getting them to follow the instructions they just read is yet another mystery.

    --
    If someone is passing you on the right, you are an asshole for driving in the wrong lane.
  180. Bad idea :( by jonaskoelker · · Score: 1

    Just put a timer on the buttons that won't let them click it for 10 seconds.

    It doesn't take 10 seconds to recognize "yeah, this is the same dialog as before"

    but ultimately you can't fix stupid.

    It's not all stupid (only 99%). Sometimes it's "not well enough informed". Say, in the firefox example. Should I trust "Joe Random Add-On Developer"? Yeah, sure*. Forcing me to spend 10 seconds on a 3-second decision just annoys me.

    * No, I shouldn't. But I'm gonna'. And all you people who run ad block plus and what have you, you haven't met with the developers and verified that they have the best intentions about your computer. They could be evil, you know...

  181. Anonymous Coward by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well, speaking through my experience in help desk support, I assume that users do not tell you about the error messages in the screen because they "think" if don't tell you, then you'll "run" to help him... I mean, they think that if they tell you "my computer is doing something weird and there is NO ERROR MESSAGE" you'll prioritize his/her case and go immediately to solve it.

    I'm working in another department now, I quit from help desk hahaha... and these guys here do that, they lie to help desk in order to have them solve the problem faster.

    hope this helps!

  182. Users don't even read error messages in bold red by supenguin · · Score: 1

    I used to work at an e-commerce company and we added a feature to indicate to our support team if they were looking at information about someone's account & there was an issue. Initially, the information about potential issues was the same font as the rest of the page but it was in bold.

    After a week, the manager said no one was paying attention to the errors. Change it to be a bigger font and bright red. So we did. Things were fine for a week. Then the manager came back "people are ignoring the error." These messages were inside h1 HTML tags, bright red, and CSS styled to be huge. 18 or 24 point font on a page where most everything else was 12 point, if I recall correctly. We had did just about everything except for putting it in a BLINK tag. We do have some standards, you know!

    The manager came up with what she thought was a good solution: randomly change the color, position and size of the warning messages. We told her no way, just train your people better. I haven't checked back to see what they ended up doing after I stopped working there.

    Shorter story that proves the point: I had a family member complain their email wasn't working any more. I went over & told them hit the button to get new email. An error pops up that they have an invalid password. I told them it means that you have the wrong password, call tech support because there's nothing I can do about it.

  183. Agreed, but 1-click is not the only thing needed by einhverfr · · Score: 1

    Let's face it. Most of the desktop users this guy is supporting are not comfortable with computers. They tone out technical jargon and are not going to remember something they can't understand. The other part is that error messages should be understandable and in plain English, and the plain English meaning should be what you want to communicate.

    For example, "uninitialized data" just isn't meaningful to most users. Call it "Required input not provided."

    On the other hand, "This program has performed an illegal operation and will be shut down" will be misunderstood as "You did something BAD and we're calling the cops to shut you down!" For all my ranting against Microsoft, they did learn from this, probably because of so many people calling for tech support asking if the police were being summoned. Now they say "this program has encountered a problem and needs to close." Much more friendly on the tech support people.

    In this spirit, the logos are not a bad idea. However, getting understandable error messages should be an important goal also because the user may be more empowered to figure out what they did wrong if it is caused by them.

    --

    LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
  184. Opening for new errors by Faffe · · Score: 1

    "Helpdesk? I have a red pegasus error in the error displaying software!"

  185. Re: Great point, but .... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So you want the application to wait until the user did a bunch of work and *then* tell them they're screwed. Yeah, that won't piss people off.

  186. Arrrrgh! Numeric error codes! by BrokenHalo · · Score: 1

    They stay on the screen, saying blandly, "Error 14"

    Back in the '70s and '80s when machines had limited memory and storage, numeric error codes were a concise way of handling exceptions when everybody had a list of those codes (or more often knew them by heart). Trouble is, these have persisted into modern software, and it can be really fucking frustrating when a piece of software spits an error and the deepest, darkest depths of Google cache fail to find a reference list.

    And yes, although Microsoft is guilty in this regard, so are a number of OSS developers. A recent occasion I came across this was when setting up a network printer with CUPS. It took me most of an afternoon to accomplish something that should have been trivial, and in fact had been in the previous version of the software.

  187. A lifetime of intelectual frustration awaits by ronbo142 · · Score: 1

    Basicly I break down users into three groups. I have no sientific facts to back up my claims. Group 1 Power Users smart enough to figure 99% of his or her computer problems and actually read the error messages. This group is maybe 20% of the group. This group typically performs 80% of the work for the organization Group 2 Users can read but are just to darn lazy or too epethetic to try so they just open tickets with the help desk in the hopes that you have time to come to the rescue.. This group comprized 60% of the group This group contributes about 15% of the overall effort to the organization. Group 3 Should not be allowed to have a computer and really should be cut as dead weight but because we are a social welfare state these users just go through life and collect a pay check and provide very little maybe 5%. In a perfect world we would be able to just shoot group 2 and 3. Ronbo

    --
    Semper Fi Ronald Ausman USMC Ret
  188. Social Engineering... by bwcbwc · · Score: 1

    Take a hint from spam and malware writers. Instead of putting up a boring error message, put up big flashing letters that say "YOU ARE THE 1,000,000th user of this system. Click here to claim your prize!!!"

    Another option is to make your error boxes "unclickable" like that old prank software that would move the message box every time you moved over the "No" button, so you were forced to click "Yes". Make the "OK" button unclickable for your error messages.

    --
    We are the 198 proof..
  189. Require feedback... by Xiver · · Score: 1

    Just require some feedback from the user. Such as "Please enter any 15 digit prime number to continue:".

    --
    10: PRINT "Everything old is new again."
    20: GOTO 10
  190. Re:Explaining error messges is what support is for by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    If I have any problems that don't fix themselves in under five minutes, I'm going to pick up the phone and call you. I'm paying you to support me if I have trouble, I shouldn't have to troubleshoot it myself."

    Someone bumps your car and damages it, then drives off. You call the cops and they ask you for the make, color and license plate.

    Does that constitute expecting you to catch the criminal yourself?

    I don't give a rat's ass how much you're paying for a support contract - it doesn't come bundled with magic, and you only get telepathy on the super gold plus plan.

     

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  191. Re:Explaining error messges is what support is for by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Eventually, someone cut to the heart of the issue from there side. Basically, he said "Do you know how much I pay each year for my support contract? No? Well, it's a lot. If I have any problems that don't fix themselves in under five minutes, I'm going to pick up the phone and call you. I'm paying you to support me if I have trouble, I shouldn't have to troubleshoot it myself.""

    So, basically, it was "If you want to keep your fat support contract, don't bother trying to improve our ability to support ourselves." Sounds like a stupid answer to me that isn't to their advantage, but, hey, they're paying the bills.

  192. Re:"Made to Stick" supports the 'puppy picture' id by nelsonal · · Score: 1

    Wasn't that when you had a disk flipped over in the old 5 1/4 inch floppy days on an apple II?

    --
    Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
  193. Take advantage of their addictions by Rival · · Score: 1

    Your idea has merit, but you need to extend the idea a little further. Make your error dialogs look like this, and you will get more user participation than you can handle:

    --------
    INSERT CUTESY PICTURE HERE
    A little lost $Animal_Name has wandered onto your farm. It needs help! You can add it to your farm, but you need to tame it first.

    To tame it, the magic words are $Magic_Word_1, $Magic_Word_2, and $Magic_Word_3.

    When you are ready, click HERE to tame it and add it to your farm!
    --------

    You just have a simple lookup table for the $Animal_Name and $Magic_Word variables, and you've got all the info you need. Of course, then you need to make some sort of ridiculous farm app, but that could be a further source of monetization! :-)

    1. Re:Take advantage of their addictions by DavidRawling · · Score: 1

      Of course, then you need to make some sort of ridiculous farm app, but that could be a further source of monetization! :-)

      It's already out there as "Viva Pinata" on Xbox 360 and Windows.

  194. Copy the error message by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Make them retype the error message, as with a capcha, those bastards!

  195. Haptic FTW by J'raxis · · Score: 1

    Unfortunately, haptic ... feedback aren't readily available.

    Oh, to have a computer that would slap someone when they make a stupid error...

  196. Anonymous Coward by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It depends on what your goal is.

    If your goal is to get the user to remember what the error was when they call you, then yes a memorable image instead of text would be very helpful. If you could make it move, make noise or otherwise attract attention even better. Also if you could make the error box persist for some small period of time -- say 3-5 seconds regardless of button click that would also help.

    Most users don't read error messages because the message really isn't aimed at them. Even if they were to read it, they would not be likely to understand its meaning.

    I think it is a very good idea.

  197. chicken and egg problem by NotSoHeavyD3 · · Score: 1

    One of the reasons I'm thinking that people don't look at error messages is that alot of the time they're terrible. You know error 47719 and that's the end of it. (Or worse, the "Error Error" which is what I call it when a program or whatever tells you an error has occured and then nothing else.) So I'd expect alot of people don't look since it's often a waste of time. Then coders turn around and realize nobody gives a shit so they make the error reporting even less useful. (Sometime you run across an app that does a good job of reporting error, that's awesome when it occurs.)

    --
    Did you know 80 to 90% of the moderators on slashdot wouldn't recognize a troll even if one dragged them under a bridge.
  198. Brain == Spam Filter, with false positives. by mcrbids · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Is it plugged in? yes? LIER!
    It it turned on? yes? LIER!
    Can you see any messeges on the screen? no? LIER!

    Why do they lie!??!?

    They aren't lying. They literally do not see it.

    Your mind is pelted with information every day. Vast, huge, massive swaths of information that make what goes over an OC3 pipe pale in comparison. Your eyes generate a super-hi-Def video stream chock full of useful details about your life and everything around you. Your ears, your sense of smell, all are being monitored 24x7, and don't forget your senses of touch, hunger, and numerous other "metasenses".

    There's far more information streaming into your brain than could possibly be processed. So what your mind does is exactly the same thing that your spam filter does at your local ISP: Your mind filters out information that you don't find useful before you are even consciously aware of it!

    Studies have shown:

    1) People will change lanes into a lane occupied by a motorcycle, even after clearly looking directly at the motorcycle! It's commonplace, as a motorcycle rider myself, I've seen this happen more than once! The reason is that the person isn't looking over to see if there's *anything* there, they're looking to see if a *car* is there. Since my motorcycle isn't a car, the other driver's mind actually filters that fact out before they are consciously aware of it, and to their mind, I'm simply not there. (thanks, brain!)

    2) In simulation, highly skilled, trained pilots were instructed to land the "airplane" on a runway littered with stuff. Garbage trucks, buses, big, huge things that were hard to miss. In only a very small number of cases did the otherwise highly skilled, demonstrated, and experienced pilots ever see the junk on the runway, even though they could be seen to be LOOKING DIRECTLY AT THE RUNWAY. Why? Because their minds were only looking for information that was already known to be useful, and filtering out the rest.

    3) Think back to when you learned to drive! Everything was bewildering, you were overwhelmed by details too numerous to process easily. Signs and lines seemed to jump out of nowhere. But somehow, it became easier and easier as your mind learned what information was actually needed, and began filtering out the rest. Your mind is trained to look for the red octagonal stop sign, and the street sign that, within your state, looks very consistent. But think about when you experience something new. For example, in my area, they started installing roundabouts where we never had them before. They were a bit disconcerting and bewildering the first few times, and I am a very safe, effective driver. (20 years, no accidents, knock on wood!) My lower brain hadn't learned to filter out all the details of the roundabout, so I had to slow down and process EVERYTHING until I had a chance to train it.

    They aren't lying. They literally cannot see what's clearly and demonstrably in front of them. The lower parts of your brain filter out detail and deliver highly processed, compressed information to your cerebrum (the part that's self-conscious) in order to save expensive processing time. Be gentle, be understanding, and accept that the reason why they are calling you is because they need you to see what's wrong and fix it! Accept your pay scale accordingly, and suck it up, because that's human nature, it will always be human nature, and there's not a damned thing you or anybody else can do about it!

    However, one thing I've found is that if an error or confirmation is very important, you put red lettering and make somebody type a word, such as "I will pay you $50", or "I'm ready to pay you $200 if I want to delete this" or something before proceeding. Make sure it's different for each situation! I used to just make end users type "confirm" or "accept" but they got used to that.

    --
    I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
    1. Re:Brain == Spam Filter, with false positives. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      About 10 years ago I learned to cycle again after a gap of about 20 years. Initially I was very bad at balancing, until one night I had a really vivid dream. In my dream, I was on a bike, suspended in total blackness (literally, the only things present were me and the bicycle). As I pedaled in my dream, I felt various forces being applied to the bike to try to make it topple, and I reacted to keep the bike upright and stable. It was really weird, but the next time I went out for real, I was no longer wobbling and unsteady. I can only assume that the dream was my brain processing all the information received whilst I had been learning, and working out what were the necessary automatic reactions to maintain balance.

    2. Re:Brain == Spam Filter, with false positives. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      2) In simulation, highly skilled, trained pilots were instructed to land the "airplane" on a runway littered with stuff. Garbage trucks, buses, big, huge things that were hard to miss. In only a very small number of cases did the otherwise highly skilled, demonstrated, and experienced pilots ever see the junk on the runway, even though they could be seen to be LOOKING DIRECTLY AT THE RUNWAY. Why? Because their minds were only looking for information that was already known to be useful, and filtering out the rest.

      Pilots are a special case. They train explicitly to follow procedure without being distracted and to trust ATC and their instruments more than what they might "feel" that the aircraft is doing unless they know with certainty that the instrument(s) are broken. Plenty of investigations into accidents with smoke in the cockpit have uncovered how pilots have made (bad) control inputs because g-forces have misled them and the smoke has prevented them from seeing the instruments (especially Swissair 111 comes to mind). So if ATC tells them that a runway is clear, it's clear. The only case where "feeling" the aircraft actually is useful is with smaller aircraft with mechanical controls. Then proper operating procedure can be to every X minutes steer a little manually to determine if there's ice buildup on the wings.

    3. Re:Brain == Spam Filter, with false positives. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The issue with not reading error messages is that they don't understand them. It's noise. There is no problem if they do understand the messages(s) *and* they have been educated about software development process, from a layman's point of view. It's all much easier once the internal customer has the understanding that without detailed information, you -- as a developer -- won't be able to help them effectively. Moreso, this is costing the company real money in terms of their downtime and *your* downtime (playing interrogator instead of fixing the darn bug).

      Your motorcycle/roundabout examples are applicable only on their surface. The deeper problem is that of lack of integration of your internal model of the process/situation with the actual process/situation as it happens. Error messages, without prior training, are just junk on the runway/motorcycle on your left. The "training" amounts to a 2h session, at most. Cheap, compared to the time you ordinarily waste at the corporate helpdesk.

    4. Re:Brain == Spam Filter, with false positives. by qazsedcft · · Score: 1

      Google for "gorilla suit experiment" to see another great example. After this you won't want to believe eyewitness testimony ever again.

    5. Re:Brain == Spam Filter, with false positives. by mcrbids · · Score: 1

      PS: I'm a pilot, and if you don't think that "look out!" isn't an explicit part of instruction, think again! The pilot in command, at all times, has the right, privilege, and responsibility to ignore ATC commands if and when the safety of the aircraft is in question! I can't count the number of times I've been given instructions such as "keep your head on a swivel" and/or "don't trust ATC - ALWAYS look for yourself!". When I'm cleared for takeoff, I always double check before turning onto the runway, and given clearance to land, I'm still trying to see if anything is in the way. It's true that you have to ignore your gut feeling, but you should *never* ignore what you see.

      But pilots, no matter the instruction given by ATC, have to look at the runway to line the plane up. Instruments get you to within a few hundred feet of the runway, and while there are auto-landers in bigger jets, the last 30 seconds are nearly always performed by a person with his/her hands on the yoke, because auto-landers aren't very "smooth".

      So here's the pilot, actually looking AT THE RUNWAY and preparing to land the plane, with a big, bright, yellow schoolbus parked right in the middle. Because their minds are attuned to looking at things like the location of the landing lines, the VASI lights at the side (which given information about your height relative to the runway and distance) and the overal "shape" of the runway, they never saw the big, yellow bus parked in the middle.

      And I believe it, because with training, I don't look at the whole runway, even when I try to!

      As far as Ice on the wings, I've NEVER heard of instructions like "steer a little manually to determine if there's ice buildup on the wings". Ice forms on the leading edges of wings and struts. You determine that there's ice when you see things like:

      A) The plane has difficulty maintaining altitude.

      B) The airspeed indicator and/or altitude indicator stop moving. (Ice covering your pitot tube, turn on pitot heater for the former, if the latter, you switch to the cabin pressure source, and compare to the GPS until you land ASAP)

      C) The windshield becomes opaque.

      D) You see ice on the wings and/or struts.

      I suppose it's possible you'd feel the attitude of the plane shift nose up as you tried ot maintain altitude, but that comes back to #1. I don't fly a plane with anti-ice equipment, (EG: wing boots, wind shield heaters, etc) so the general rule is: look out, and if I see any ice, TURN AROUND/GET OUT ASAP!

      --
      I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
    6. Re:Brain == Spam Filter, with false positives. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      PS: I'm a pilot, and if you don't think that "look out!" isn't an explicit part of instruction, think again! The pilot in command, at all times, has the right, privilege, and responsibility to ignore ATC commands if and when the safety of the aircraft is in question!

      You're oversimplifying. ATC has information that you don't and vice versa and ATC is definitely concerned about the safety all aircraft. The DHL and Bashkirian collision was a consequence of one pilot obeying ATC and another TCAS. Was either pilot less concerned about the safety of his aircraft?

      As far as Ice on the wings, I've NEVER heard of instructions like "steer a little manually to determine if there's ice buildup on the wings".

      One finding by the NTSB team investigating Colgan 3407 was that one of many mistakes by the crew was failure to follow that procedure.

  199. Less Error Messages by Carl.E.Pierre · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If the error popups were not so frequent and identical, people might actually care when one shows up. This of course means having stuff that breaks less...

  200. 25kV Electrodes in Chair by EmagGeek · · Score: 1

    When an error message pops up, they have 10 seconds to retype it into a dialog box, or they get 25kV in the arse.

    After they retype it, they get 10kV anyway, just for being stupid.

  201. Nothing. by Yaos · · Score: 1

    There is nothing you can do, you could be standing next to them telling them exactly what to click on while guiding their hand and they still would be unable to follow any directions.

  202. They don't want to read by LuminaireX · · Score: 2, Insightful

    They're calling you because they want you to come fix it, personally. They don't want to do anything on their own, even if it's as simple as following verbal instructions over the phone. Users don't want to read an error to you. They either want to continue what they were working on before they were stopped unexpectedly, or continue researching kitten videos on Youtube.

  203. Make the process more interactive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Users are more likely to remember data that they interact with rather than receive passively.

    1) When an error occurs, the error code is given by the first word on three different pages of the user manual which the user must look up and type them in. Now they're reading the manual! Code wheels from old Apple II games and Pantone color swatch books could also be used. To encourage users to write errors down, the process could be repeated at random intervals throughout the day.

    2) Make up bingo cards filled with randomly selected error messages. Winning cards can be verified against the logs. Encourage victory shouts.

  204. Yes it is jargon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    jargon (n) ... 3. The specialized or technical language of a trade, profession, or similar group.

    The uses of jargon are:
    a. to communicate information efficiently, and/or
    b. To confuse those outside the group.

    Don't be ashamed of using jargon when appropriate for communicating with others on your level, but do remember that not everyone belongs to your select group.

  205. Dancing Pigs / Bunnies by Halotron1 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Sounds like a variant of the dancing pigs problem

    They will completely ignore every error message and try to find a way to get what they want.

    I try to keep the error messages as simple as possible, and then have the system email out an error message.
    If your company isn't gigantic it can work well, then when you get a call just check the email to see what the full message was.

  206. Hadda? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    FTS:

    Unfortunately, haptic and olfactory feedback aren't readily available.

    Hadda crowbar that in there, dintcha?

  207. Re:simply not, , reading the error by Joce640k · · Score: 1

    Yep, I get this all the time

    Even if I'm sat there next to them and ask them what the window they just closed was I just get "I don't know, it just always appears when I do that".

    If I repeat the error and point out that it says (eg.) "printer isn't switched on" they'll sheepishly turn on the printer and apologize for wasting my time but will they learn anything and read the next message that appears?? Dream on....

    I dunno, colored puppies sounds like a good idea: "I saw a funny red puppy waving at me" but I'm jaded and don't have a lot of faith in end users.

    --
    No sig today...
  208. Google! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just add a "google it!" button. That's what I always do with errors. I usually have to type them, though. For some reason you can never, EVER copy and paste from an error box, and that's so very annoying, especially when you have a nice long generic one with 2 hex codes. ARGH

  209. Not just users by jbmartin6 · · Score: 1

    I think this is the same problem that afflicts tech support staff who don't read any log files or error messages that you submit when opening a ticket.

    --
    This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
  210. Blame advertising by MobyDisk · · Score: 1

    The human brain is excellent at filtering information. I think advertising has trained us to turn our brains off to certain things, and we are oblivious to it.

    I've seen this phenomenon in myself. Some times when surfing the web with someone else looking over my shoulder, and that person mentions something that they see on the page, and I have to ask them where it is. Often times it is an advertisement, and I read so much online that I just blocked it out. Once I was reading an article that referred to an illustration, and I was frustrated because I couldn't find the illustration. I figured something was wrong on the page. So I decided to scan the page bottom-to-top, right-to-left (the opposite of natural reading order) and the illustration was there! Right where it was supposed to be! Right under an advertisement that I was ignoring.

    Someone earlier posted an example with an error message bouncing around the screen. I totally understand why the user missed it -- because many monitors display pointless messages like "No signal" instead of going to sleep.

    People are inundated with useless, inappropriate information. As a result, our brains filter out information we don't understand.

  211. Give up on that. by v1 · · Score: 1

    Seriously. There's no point to expecting or attempting to educate, bribe, trick, or otherwise coerce users into remembering much less reading error messages. Save everything to a log file. Make it a running log file, not a "last error" log file, so when you do remote in after they've determined it's finally time to call you, you can see all the problems they've had recently and can fix their current issue, as well as all the other little problems they've been having and have failed to mention to you.

    If your circumstances support it, have the errors automatically emailed to you, with as much relevant information as possible.

    I like the "puppy error" idea though... sometimes you get a user that's not technical but is actually willing to be a part of the solution instead of wallowing in the problem, and you may be able to teach them a few tricks (haha) based on memorable icons. Like "when you see a red stop sign, you need to press the switch on the power strip and then press it again", or "the atomic cloud means you need to call me right away" or "when you see the briefcase you need to call your manager to come take a look" etc.

    --
    I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
  212. Good luck by taustin · · Score: 1

    I have occasionally gotten my users to call me before clearing out the error message on the screen. But these day, I don't bother, because most of my users literally cannot read the error message off the screen while on the phone with me. Because "that's computer stuff, and I don't know anything about that."

    Lord, how I wish I were exaggerating.

  213. Some people refuse to read by adipocere · · Score: 1

    It's that simple. A core percentage of your users simply refuse to read what is in front of them. They skim, they look for only the things they expect, and absolutely nothing else. They're basically running the visual equivalent of an Expect script, responding to a prompt in a way which may or may not be appropriate.

    I'll give an example. I had a password reset program which, of course, required an email address specific to our users. However, there was a possibility that users would use a different email address that wasn't valid. No, I had no access to that list of addresses to match and verify, that was simply out. Instructions were provided on the page as to which kinds of email addresses were allowed, and which were not. Of course users ignore instructions, as we all know. They see "email address" and they begin typing. Instructions could be on the top, on the bottom, or right before that row -- it didn't matter. This happened about 45% of the time. Okay, half of our users read directions, yay.

    So I added something which would detect the wrong type, I could at least do that much, and tell them, via a nice, big Javascript window you had to click to make go away, that they used the wrong kind, and here is what the right kind looked like. What kind of drastic reduction in errors did I see?

    95%? No.
    80%? Such an optimist!
    50%? Ha!

    Only thirty percent of my users, presented with a HEY IT LOOKS LIKE YOU ARE USING THE WRONG EMAIL ADDRESS HERE IS WHAT IT SHOULD LOOK LIKE kind of prompt, right in their face, changed their behavior. It was big! It was colored! It covered the form until you made it go away. The rest kept doing it the wrong way. Sometimes several times in a row (I watched the logs). I could see them return a month later to reset their password, which they had forgotten, and make the same mistakes. They will not remember more than a few minutes ago, they will not read instructions, and they will not respond to error messages. They will not remember error messages they see.

    Once you accept the existence of this core group and realize that you can do nothing to help them besides providing hopefully appropriate environmental prompts, the rest explains itself. Do not waste time trying to solve the problems with this group. If you carefully watch their behavior on other systems, they experience identical problems wherever they may go. They exist in a perpetual struggle with computers, thrashing like a goldfish thrashing in a corner of an aquarium. Feel sorry for them if you must, design around them if you can, but you cannot change their behavior for them, only provide a padded environment where they cannot hurt themselves too much and can hopefully mouth soft objects with rounded corners.

  214. Re:If clicking the OK box makes the error go away. by nickyj · · Score: 1

    Sounds like an idea.

    Make the error message do various things depending on the severity. Small error, make annoying noise. Big error, shuts down program. Huge error, force reboot.

    --
    Causing Chaos Everywhere,
    Nik J.
    The strange world of a loner, in a populous city, drowning in society
  215. In vs, u can... by hesaigo999ca · · Score: 1

    In the messagebox, you are able to associate an icon picture to the message, and also in .net that has been drastically been advanced.
    I agree that a puppy picture for some users would signal a more recognizable error message, however, going through the whole catalogue of the animal kingdom, I do not find enough species to cover all possible errors I could propagate in a software app.

  216. PSR.exe on Windows 7 by jamesyouwish · · Score: 1

    I your end users are running windows 7 check out psr.exe. I records what they do with screen shots each step of the way. Now if it could only tell me what PEBKAC is?

  217. It depends on where your software is deployed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The best way that I've ever found to support users with error messages is to make sure that I can be aware of them as soon as they happen. This was easy to implement in many corporate applications that I've built, as I simply built an error management object (in VB6...I'm old) that would log all error messages in one of three ways depending on the capability that the system was left in when the error happened.

    The first level was logging to a database table that was used by the application. I had a separate application that would poll that table and alert me whenever an error record was added. It blew the socks off users when I would call them within moments of the error telling them that I was working the issue. (BIG win for our IT department). In cases where the database connection or capability was gone the error management object would send me an email with all of the appropriate information. The last resort was creating a log file entry on the user's local drive.

    In all but the third level of managing errors I was empowered to be aware and proactive in my response to users and I didn't have to resort to the 'puppy error message'.

  218. Re: Great point, but .... by Nemyst · · Score: 1

    Your printing example ends up doing one of two possible results:
    1) By attempting to detect at launch, the program hangs for a few seconds every time, even if you never use the printing segment. See Adobe Photoshop hanging for 10 seconds whenever your default printer is a network printer that's offline.
    2) By giving an error after the job is completed, you risk people thinking the error does not apply to their task (they've completed all their memorized steps, after all) or that it won't matter anyways. Most will just end up clicking through it because the error message still gets in the way of their next task: closing the software.

    No, the problem's in the mindset. Do you see people ignoring "fuel low" indicators a lot? Do you see people gobbling all their pills at once despite the prescription saying it should be one a day? If people are too stupid to follow basic indications, then they should be stuck in their stupidity until their learn to work properly. In other words, screw them. Car manufacturers won't start blackening the windshield and reading out loud "fuel low" every time, so I don't see why computer software errors would have to be so insanely inventive to get their users' attention. Plus, it would be annoying for those who DO read the errors.

    Now, that does not excuse errors like "0xC0003F: Fault in core area."

  219. Haptic feedback by Arancaytar · · Score: 1

    I like to think that my users would remember the error that caused them to get a swift kick in the balls. And if they forgot it anyhow, I could always help them reproduce it.

    That is indeed a tempting thought. Maybe get one of these.

  220. Add images by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Add foobies to your error messages...

  221. Usability snob says... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You are solving a wrong problem and about to confuse your poor users even more with with strange error message icons.
    Instead of trying to force users to read incomprehensible techno bable, you should be designing your program so that it doesn't need to show error messages.

    At the very least do not use simple modal dialogs and error messages that only describe the problem. Use error messages that do not prevent doing anything but disposing the message (i.e., modal dialog) and always describe a SOLUTION to the problem.

    E.g., if the error is that a user tries to submit a form with a missing required field, you could just move focus back to where a value is missing, put a thick red border with a border title "REQUIRED FIELD" around the widget in question.

  222. Re: Great point, but .... by pla · · Score: 1

    I think users would like computers to ignore error conditions until they're done with all input related to performing an operation, for starters.

    Absolutely, positively wrong. I don't mean that caustically - I see your idea, and consider it good in theory, but I can tell you from first-hand experience exactly what this leads to in practice:

    "Hey, you the jackass that wrote this thing? Yeah, I just spent an hour putting in a quote for a customer standing in front of me, and now it tells me it can't connect to your server?"


    At that point, give them a friendly error telling them the printer seems to be disconnected, and their print job will complete automatically, once they re-attach it.

    Continuing with the previous example, the error message in question explicitly tells the user that it will just save a local copy (which they can print and otherwise work with as normal) until it can reconnect to the server. But no one actually reads that far.

    At least if the program tells them it can't get to the server (and will save locally instead) right up front, you don't have to pretend to feel bad that they wasted an hour.


    And yes, I've just described a real example (complete with me answering the phone to hear "hey jackass!").

  223. It's not the users job, it's yours. by bill_kress · · Score: 1

    The user should see nothing, or as little as possible. If your program can adapt to the error without the users input, it should (as an example, using relative paths to ensure that if your program is moved it doesn't break).

    If it needs further input, it should ask for it directly (this file seems to have moved--where is it now?)

    If it's an unexpected exception, always append as much of your state as you can to a log and restart. Never clear this log. If you cannot start, offer the user the ability to send you his log in a Very Short Dialog. Make it trivial to send, a single button-press if possible.

    Don't expect them to read a dialog and implement a solution for you. If you know enough about what's going on in the dialog to have them fix it, fix it for them. If you don't, don't have them guess, have them contact you (assuming it's internal company support).

    Whenever you solve a problem, be sure to incorporate it back into your program so you don't see that problem again.

  224. well.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    One way I've seen, which I thought was particularly good, gave an error message. In order to move past the error screen the person had to call the support company for a passcode to close it. This way, the support company had a full history of 'incidents', could ensure the end user didn't proceed after a meltdown, and knew what error code was being given at what time.

  225. Mappers vs Packers by Oloryn · · Score: 1

    Part of what you're running into is the distinction between packers and mappers (Google 'The Programmer's Stone' for more info). Packers learn by collecting little packets of information, while mappers learn by making mental maps of information. I don't agree with all the directions the originator of the concept has taken it, but I've found it to be a useful distinction. IT types (especially programmers) tend to be mappers, while the user is typically a packer. Businesses tend to run on a Packer mindset. Packers are typically much more comfortable with memorized procedures than with having to think about unfamiliar information(as you noted).

    Instead of trying to tweak error messages to make them memorable, your best bet might be to get management to promulgate a procedure to be followed when the user contacts support about an unfamiliar error message. Make it include grabbing a screen shot of the error message, or writing the error message down. Try to make it short, but sufficient to capture the typical information that you need to diagnose a problem. Since they're good at memorizing a set of steps to follow, give them a memorizable set of steps to follow when they encounter a problem. This might be more successful than trying to push them into a mode of operation they're not good at.

  226. Re:If clicking the OK box makes the error go away. by 91degrees · · Score: 1

    Well, it's more the case of small error - don't allow user to continue until error is fixed, medium error - don't allow user to continue until error is fixed, huge error - don't allow user to continue until error is fixed.

  227. Wow I just realisez what made me good at computers by Lazypete · · Score: 1

    I just realized that what made me soo good with computer.. you know the kind of guy that get called by his whole familly, and even the families of friends ... is that I know how to read an error message....

  228. Make them solve a simple math problem. by ameline · · Score: 1

    Make them correctly solve a simple math problem in order to enable the "OK" button. My favorite is the captcha from the Moscow institute of physics and technology; http://lib.mipt.ru/?spage=reg_user

    You have to determine the total resistance of a very simple resistor network (a wheatstone bridge). Sounds easy, right? Better dust off your knowlege of Kirchoff's law.

    Several solutions can be found here; http://yaroslavvb.blogspot.com/2008/01/russian-captcha-revisited.html

    --
    Ian Ameline
  229. Try Audio. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    10 years ago, I ran a few Linux print servers in an otherwise OS/2-only envirunment (yep, that was the banking world 10 years ago, IBM all the way). As I couldn't access SSH from the OS/2 machines (they were too locked down to install additional software), and didn't always have access to a Linux box with a SSH client on it, I had resorted to use different beeps for relaying status messages. The server would go beep-Beep-BEEEEP (melodic ascending beeps like C-E-G) for every successful job and meep-meep for every failed one. So when folks called in, all I had to do was ask them to hold the phone against the server while someone else triggered the print job again. The specific issues we had were reproducable, i.e. if a job failed with a meep-meep the first time, it would fail on all subsequent tries as well, and it had exactly one cause, so we knew where to look. If it would play the melody, but still wouldn't print, we knew it was something like paper jam, paper empty, etc.

  230. Re:Oh, I dunno, try making the error messages usef by Lazypete · · Score: 1

    Oh here I have to say something... Deadlines... you dont know how fancy and neat every program would be if we had the time we need to finish these up.. but management dont care... they want ti on the shelf yesterday... not when its ready!

  231. As a professional dev here is my words! by el_jake · · Score: 1

    I do not make code errors, should the impossible surface then:

    On Windows> pop some reg's in HAL divide them with zero reg's and tada a blues screen will display nicely in front of the user it's a very clean and nice way to display error messages on Windows. The user will feel home..

    On Linux> impostor a module, call a stack send some nulls, voids whatever the core dumb's. All Linux users reads there daily core dumb's. So this is a fine place for error messages.

    On Mac> Show the beach ball in an infinite loop. Mac users don't know how to read error messages.

    --
    In order to form an immaculate member of a flock of sheep one must, above all, be a sheep.
  232. Use Preattentive Attributes? by KeithConover · · Score: 1

    If the goal is simply to have users remember the error message, there is some science on learnability and memorability.

    See http://ed-informatics.org/2009/12/28/computers-in-the-ed-1/

    First of all, if you read about evolutionary psychology, say, the works of Merlin Donald, you will realize that people are designed to remember stories and not numbers, so you could have each error message tell a different story.

    See http://ed-informatics.org/2010/01/07/computers-in-the-ed-5/

    Or, you could reference the work of Colin Ware, and design error messages that have icons that use preattentive attributes.

    See http://ed-informatics.org/2010/01/25/computers-in-the-ed-8

    and

    http://ed-informatics.org/2010/02/11/computers-in-the-ed-9/

    While this tends to answer what you asked, which is to help users remember error messages, some of the other proposed solutions already posted may actually help solve your problem better (debug logs, etc.).

  233. Extend from Error Message to (other) UI by FordPrefect276709 · · Score: 1

    I very much fancy the idea with different icons for different error messages. It does improve the recognition of 'something special going on', as I can say from some pretty small samples where I could test that.

    Two downsides remained:
    a) Users DID (as they reported later) recognize a special message ('with that picture of a puppy') being presented. But they did not get the message at all (reading - understanding - correcting the problem wasn't improved)
    b) The more different icons got involved, the more people just got confused. They just thought of the application as 'a little bit' funny

    What got me better results is incorporating the error message into the actual working ui. Think of red boxes around fields that are not properly filled. Say if they break something while entering some customer data, let the whole customer data form turn angry-red or mildly-orange - or maybe just parts.

    Highlight broken parts where they should go and fix something. They would only do it, if it got some value for them. If they are responsible for a customer telephone number to be correct, they'd care about a red phone number field. Otherwise they wouldn't.

    If they want to go online with their wi-fi, they will care about a red wi-fi icon.

    So my advice: Don't distract with (unrelated) icons, pictures or error messages as a whole. You already got their attention on the subject that matters to them. Tell them in an easy and intuitive pattern (traffic light color) if that's ok or not.

    Always remember: They care about their work, not about the inner feelings of your app!

  234. The "my users are idiots" cop-out by pclminion · · Score: 1

    1) The fact that your software produces errors means that your software has a problem you need to fix. I distinguish between resource failures (file not found) and full on errors (attempted to access null object, for instance). Files not being found is normally outside your control. Dereferencing a null pointer is completely your fault. The fact that the user doesn't understand your message is not the user's fault. The user does not, nor should, give a shit what a "null pointer" is. By the time the error is displayed on the screen, you have already failed.

    2) Depending on users to accurately report complex error conditions is an exercise in futility. Humans do not work that way. Assuming that they do, then accusing them of being stupid when they don't, makes you the moron. If you need to know error details, log them, and give the user a way to send you the report -- even better, send the report automatically.

  235. Do you even need the error messages? by idontusenumbers · · Score: 0

    Most error messages can be dealt with programatically on the developer's side. If a file isn't found, maybe the program should try to find it. If there's a required text box, indicate so on the text box instead of alerting the user when they click the okay button, maybe even making the okay button disabled until text has been entered and (this is important) including a tool tip on the okay button indicating why it is disabled. I've clicked past many dialog boxes without reading them and wished that I could 'undo' or 'go back' to see what they said again. Try to replace the dialog with a better method of informing the user.

  236. What we can learn from basic by Leolo · · Score: 1

    I work with legacy systems written in Pro/5 BASIC. Yes, pain. But... if a user calls you up and says "Error 11 on line 31210" you can know pretty quickly what the problem was. Because all our programs are structured in such a way that we know roughly what 31210 is doing.

    I don't really handle the BASIC stuff (my part is in Perl and Javascript), but I've heard my associate dictating a new line of code over the phone. Basically a one-line patch, improvised on the spot.

    I was very impressed.

  237. An object that represents a non-fatal error by tepples · · Score: 1

    The user did not ask for a limit of division when the divisor approaches 0

    People don't always get what they ask for. When someone tries to calculate something that is defined only as a limit, he gets the closest approximation: an object, which is not a real number, that represents this limit. The user can still do useful things with the limit, such as divide real numbers by it to produce 0. If the error condition is not fatal, represent it as not fatal.

    The fact that IEEE might define a state for when a cpu tries to calculate it (NaN - which btw really is NOT a number), does not change the cold fact that doing so is an error and has to result in an error message.

    It's a distinct object that represents an error condition, and such an object doesn't trigger the reflex to click OK because it isn't communicated as an alert box. Nor does a misspelled word in a word processor result in an alert box; it just results in a red underline.

  238. Are we moving toward 'iconerate' users? by Japher · · Score: 1

    I read a book some time ago in which most people were 'iconerate' as opposed to being fully literate. It meant that they could recognize specific icons and symbols and understand them, but that user interfaces has become so sophisticated that understanding beyond that wasn't needed.

    While this isn't exactly the idea you've described, there is more than a passing similarity. Users fly through messages and menus quickly because they know what to expect. They remember that blue thing with the W on it starts word, and the green one with the X starts excel. The problem with using this kind of system with error messages is that unless you're using it to capture very common errors, the users will never get to the point where they can immediately associate the icon with a specific problem. And if the users see the error often enough to achieve that level of understanding then they probably know how to deal with it themselves. Which, come to think of it, may not be bad if they could come to associate an icon with specific recovery steps. but it's not going to help you with the complex issues which is where the helpdesk really needs it.

    The puppy error idea may work in the short term, but soon I think that the novelty will wear off and they'll all blur into "some cartooish icon" in the user's mind.

  239. Eeeeeeeeema! by SEWilco · · Score: 1

    I had a longer comment, but it got lost when I got the screaming yellow unicorn error.

  240. I've always wanted to make a post with acronyms by biryokumaru · · Score: 1

    FTFS

    FTFW

    --
    When you're afraid to download music illegally in your own home, then the terrorists have won!
  241. Maybe so. by maillemaker · · Score: 1

    People have been fired here in the past for trying just that.

    --
    A work that expires before its copyright never enters the public domain and thus enjoys eternal copyright protection.
  242. Shop floor interface by PPH · · Score: 1

    I developed one some years ago. After noticing that the users of the legacy app didn't, or couldn't[1] read the text error messages, I used a series of background colors for the new web app that indicated the general type of error and what should be done about it. The application itself was somewhat checklist based in that it would step the operator through the requisite procedures needed to remedy a situation. The colors, and some appropriate iconography[2] would indicate whether the operator was stepping through the normal operating path or handing an exception.

    [1] The original text-based app would present a cryptic error message to the operator along with our on-call pager number. All that was necessary was that the operator contact us and read the message back. Most fixes could then be handled remotely in a few minutes. One night, when I was on call, I received a message from a shop floor manager to the effect that the system was down and I needed to drive down and fix it. I asked him to read me the message on the screen with the idea that it might be something I could fix on line (sitting in my PJs) in a few minutes. At this point, he became quite irate, insisting that there was no message, other than the pager number and for me to get my ass down to the factory. An hour or so later (with production stopped), when I showed up, there was the message (fixable on line in about 5 minutes). But no manager in sight. When I asked one of the employees what the problem was with his boss reading the message to me over the phone, he informed me that this guy was functionally illiterate. He could figure out the pager number to call me, but not read the text.

    [2]All error pages included an animated graphic of a character sitting at a screen/keyboard, repeatedly bashing his head on the keyboard. It became obvious to (even untrained) users that somehow, something was f*cked up and they were now in some sort of exception handling mode.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  243. Re:This is a sore subject with me because it's tru by DutchUncle · · Score: 1

    Another echo: differences dealing with family tech support. Age is not the issue.

    One elder was a stereo freak in the old days, and very Rolodex/to-do-list oriented. When he calls with a problem, he tells me what happened reasonably well, reads what is on the screen, and can follow directions precisely (as long as I give them slowly and clearly). Another elder, formerly a professional artist, when told "Click where it says FOO", denied that it said FOO anywhere on the screen, then when directed there a column at a time skipped some of the column headers, then clicked on something else because it "sounded similar".

    People simply don't see what doesn't fit their worldview.

  244. Re:If clicking the OK box makes the error go away. by geekboybt · · Score: 1

    Actually, haven't we essentially solved this in the web world now? Nobody uses javascript:alert("ERROR: 45322626") anymore. Now, we take the user to where the problem can be fixed, or provide them a link directly to it. If it's a form validation problem, the fields with errors can light up and highlight the problem.

  245. Liers are usually tring to Sleep by Roger+W+Moore · · Score: 1

    Is it plugged in? yes? LIER! It it turned on? yes? LIER! Can you see any messeges on the screen? no? LIER! Why do they lie!??!?

    Probably because they are trying to sleep (or may actually have achieved said state which would explain why they are not reading the error messages) but that's what you would expect if you are talking to liers. Of course you might also be talking to liars but that would be different.

  246. Re: Great point, but .... by FireFury03 · · Score: 1

    I can't begin to count the number of times I've received an error dialog box in an application that told me nothing useful.

    Possibly one of the most annoying error messages I see are the ones that end "Please contact your system administrator."... Which is great when I *am* the system administrator and I don't have a clue what's broken because, rather than give me enough detail to figure it out, it just told me to go talk to myself...

  247. Error text copy/paste by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A little off topic, but I try to include the EXACT text of error messages for the hard working tech support dweebs. I find it frustrating when the text not only cannot be captured by normal means, but often not even by my Scraper tool. Help us help you.

  248. They can't memorize what isn't consistent. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Implement a random number generator and design several styles of error messages with the buttons moved around. 10 buttons that say "this button doesn't do anything" "this button rapes your computer" and "this button is made of clowns" which are distributed in a random order should help.

  249. Re:If clicking the OK box makes the error go away. by cxx · · Score: 0

    This is what annoys me most about modeling hardware in VHDL, verilog, etc. versus programming software.

    With software, the goal is to fix any warning messages (even with -Wall), to the point that many programming standards require -Werror as well. The warnings are generally important to follow and are generally heeded.

    With hardware, synthesizing a design produces hundreds of warnings even with simple designs -- many of which warn about common, intended behavior. Maybe I just used crappy tools? Either way, the warnings were ignored simply because they didn't seem to be important.

    The lesson: don't overload the user with warnings, but use them selectively and usefully.

  250. Re: Great point, but .... by johnw · · Score: 1

    I think the core problem is, perhaps, with the mindset of most software developers. They think logically and prefer a computer to immediately notify them about exactly what's wrong, as soon as an issue arises. They're also accustomed to the traditional way errors are reported, and feel most comfortable making things stick to "tried and true" methods.

    The typical user, however, doesn't see any of that as advantageous or even sensible.

    I think you overestimate the difference between programmers and users.

    I remember a curious thing when Acorn first launched their C compiler (Norcroft C) for the Archimedes computer. It was far more sophisticated than most C compilers then available, and was very good at spotting mistakes in the code and warning about them. Compared to the contemporary Microsoft C compiler it was streets ahead.

    The odd thing though was the number of times I saw this reported as a defect in the Acorn compiler. "Microsoft C can compile this code without difficulty but this new compiler had 128 errors." was a typical comment. The fact that the errors were in the source code and the Acorn compiler was actually doing a much *better* job of diagnosing them was beyond the comprehension of most of the reviewers.

  251. Mappers vs Packers by Oloryn · · Score: 1

    Part of what you're running into is the distinction between packers and mappers (Google 'The Programmer's Stone' for more info). Packers learn by collecting little packets of information, while mappers learn by making mental maps of information. I don't agree with all the directions the originator of the concept has taken it, but I've found it to be a useful distinction. IT types (especially programmers) tend to be mappers, while the user is typically a packer. Businesses tend to run on a Packer mindset. Packers are typically much more comfortable with memorized procedures than with having to think about unfamiliar information(as you noted).

    Instead of trying to tweak error messages to make them memorable, your best bet might be to get management to promulgate a procedure to be followed when the user contacts support about an unfamiliar error message. Make it include grabbing a screen shot of the error message, or writing the error message down. Try to make it short, but sufficient to capture the typical information that you need to diagnose a problem. Since they're good at memorizing a set of steps to follow, give them a memorizable set of steps to follow when they encounter a problem. This might be more successful than trying to push them into a mode of operation they're not good at.

  252. My Favorite? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I hate it when someone calls their computer a 'cpu'. A CPU!!! That's like calling your car an engine.

  253. Just in case nobody has said it.... porn by SpacePunk · · Score: 1

    Yes, porn is the answer. Users will pay attention to error messages if there are tits and ass in them, or bait n tackle for the ladies.

  254. Users Don't Follow Directions - NOT A Cop-Out by Isarian · · Score: 1

    I have a lot of respect for computer users who get thrown in with software that sports poorly written error messages and excessive numbers of confirmation-required dialogs, forcing them to learn to just "click past" to get their work done. I respect these people when they understand to call tech support and follow directions as they are clearly provided.

    I have no respect for computer users who refuse to follow clearly provided directions and then blame tech support. True story:

    Me: Okay, in this command prompt we opened up I need you to type "ipconfig", spelled like "India", "Papa", "Charlie"... then hit "Enter" on the keyboard.
    Him: Okay, I typed that in but it just says "not recognized as a valid internal or external command"
    Me: Can you read back to me what you typed in before hitting "Enter"?
    Him, Angry: I don't get it, I typed "I" then a space, and then "Configure" just like you told me to!

    Or...

    Me: Okay, in the lower-left hand pane of the window there is a Log Pane that shows the error message I need to assist you. What does it say?
    Him: I don't know what you're talking about, there's no error in the lower-right hand part of the screen!
    Me: No sir, I need you to look in the lower-left hand part of the screen - what error does it say?
    Him: I'm telling you, there's no message, it just won't connect!
    Me: Okay, in that case can you just read off the last line of text in the lower-left hand corner of the screen?
    Him: It says "Error, could not open SFTP connection on port 22, connection timed out..."

    There are shitty tech support people out there who give vague directions and then get pissed at their users because they can't magically extrapolate details or directions. I despise these people because they give decent support techs a bad name. However, I submit we'd have a lot fewer pissed off/burnt out support techs if more computer users were able to follow basic directions.

  255. On stackoverflow... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The question was also asked on stackoverflow: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2356698/how-to-get-users-to-read-error-messages with some interesting comments over there.

  256. How Do You Get Users To Read Error Messages? by Genwil · · Score: 1

    Most people have no clue what most error messages say to them, so they can't possibly remember what they say. Making sure error messages say something a regular person can understand will make it more likely they will read, and remember the messages. It's just like asking someone to remember names in their mother tongue or a completely different language: it's way easier for people to remember names from their own language.

  257. Re:This is a sore subject with me because it's tru by johnw · · Score: 1

    He clearly thought I was an imbercile

    Yesterday I couldn't even spell "imbecile" - now I are one.

  258. Re:If clicking the OK box makes the error go away. by 91degrees · · Score: 1

    True. And while it's irritating to search through a long form to find all the fields that are mandatory it does seem to be pretty robust at preventing people from clicking through without thinking.

  259. Best idea by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 1

    Developers need to start making it so error messages don't go away until you reply to an question asking what caused the error to ensure they read it. If they fail at that then they should stick to pen and paper.

  260. Would you like crackers with that? by unixguy43 · · Score: 1

    From my experience, users tend to ignore what the consider to be "normal" error messages. Unless something strange and abnormal comes up, they generally will ignore the message.

    Case in point- while managing a school computer lab, we decided to have some fun after listening to an all night marathon of Monty Python CD's containing, amongst others, the "cheese" sketch. We had located the command codes to send signals to the network attached HP printer, allowing us to change the default display message on the printer. Nobody noticed that the printer was out of paper, when it really was, but 5 people within 10 minutes noticed that the printer was "Out of Cheese" when there was really no problem with it.

    Put any of the standard error codes on the panel, and nothing is noticed. Tell a user something unbelievable and weird, and they'll pay attention to it.

    Of course the puzzled look that users will give you when you tell them that the printer works much better without cheese is absolutely priceless too.

  261. Re:Ingenious 1, Incredulity 99 by sammy+baby · · Score: 1

    Right. So Edna, the sweet octogenarian who volunteered at the local library, calls us because the Internets would stop moving at that branch. Do you really think any of us cared what she thought of us, just so long as we were polite and the problem was resolved?

    Anyone smart enough to know that it was a three-pronged plug and call us on it would get an explanation as to why we did it. The one time I know of that it happened, the guy had a good laugh over it.

  262. Re:This is a sore subject with me because it's tru by clone53421 · · Score: 1

    File, Open Location, type it. Press Enter.

    --
    Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
  263. Re:This is a sore subject with me because it's tru by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    HP had recently made a change to their nework removing the browser ID string when employees were surfing the net.

    okay, please tell me why did you not check the actual data the client was sending to your servers?

  264. Get them to read instructions in the first place? by SoundGuyNoise · · Score: 1

    The instructions on the website I support are spelled out in sequential steps:
    1. Enter info
    2. Click button A
    3. Repeat 1-2 as needed
    4. Click button B

    Or when given a page of several items to fill out, why oh why do they always start at the bottom and wonder why it didn't work?

    --
    You never expect irony, do you?
    Want to be a professional wrestler? Visit www.iyfwrestling.com
    @iyfwrestling
  265. Re:simply not, , reading the error by Magic5Ball · · Score: 1

    "they'll sheepishly turn on the printer and apologize for wasting my time"

    That symptom reflects the major part of the problem. Somehow, your interaction style leaves the impression that the user is in some undeserving class, and that it's the user's fault for being there. That does not provide the user with encouragement to understand or work with the system.

    The mammalian body plan is full of discoverable interfaces which encourage discovery through interaction. Humans are wired to experiment to discover and understand how the works around them. Small children put things in/on/around other things (often dangerously) before the grups tell them that doing so is inappropriate. Geeks punt around with config files and get it wrong all day, without having to apologise to the kit.

    The moment that the IT support overlord becomes anything other than a partner in discovery is the moment that users stop learning.

    As a first step to improving support, I would suggest never touching any deskside kit and instead teach the users how and why to perform the steps required to resolve the issue (as a support person, you already know how to do those tasks, and are not paid for performing the user's job function). I've found that telling the story of fixing the issue (what do you want to do? what do you see around you? what might that do? how might that help you?) without being condescending, and having the user act out and narrate their actions, takes around 10-15% more time per incident, but they, and their cube neighbors, will become self-supporting on the issue (and on related issues) because they've learned tactilely, visually, and aurally, what they are doing to interact with a particular sub-system. Leaving the highly critical adult mode of thought for a simpler juvenile construction of mutual discovery is quite literally childish, but its effective /because/ its closer to our default way of thinking. After a few visits, your users will have discovered and internalized your problem solving pattern, and *gazp*, will do it from start to finish on their own, or with Google, because that's faster than getting ahold of support. /formally left support five years ago because everyone in my group became self sufficient in their software, except for the once in a decade circumstances (or when we've broken something in infrastructure) where Google doesn't help, so we all have to learn together

    --
    There are 1.1... kinds of people.
  266. Re:Oh, I dunno, try making the error messages usef by rdavidson3 · · Score: 1

    The blame lies with LAZY system designers and LAZY developers.

    Since we're spreading blame, then don't forget the lazy QA department for not testing that, and the lazy BA for not writing sufficient specs, or the data architect who thinks that a CustomerID should only be an INT.

    I believe that the root of these issues arises from poor specs that the developer and QA consume to produce code / unit tests that ultimately fail in the end product. I've worked for many companies throughout my career and almost every time this issue occurs it can be pointed to the BA producing the original spec. Most times the BA is over worked / inexperienced and management isn't interested in spending more time on the front of projects to get things done right, or the end users don't want to invest time in working with the BA to get things right. I've seen it all.

    Lots of blame to go around, just don't pile it on the developers.

  267. Re:Explaining error messges is what support is for by Matheus · · Score: 1

    Why is this modded "Funny"? This is exactly right no matter how much we may not like it, although I would go as far as to say it is on a different topic.

    TFA is referring more to internal users relaying to an internal team who has to fix internal problems. Once you cross the barrier to the outside of the organization to someone who is paying you (usually a very large sum of money) then "Tech Support/IT" transforms into "Customer Service". Customer Service means you need to do whatever you can to fix their problem while keeping them happy and interested in doing possibly more business with you. Frustrating? Yes. Essential to stay in business? Equally if not more Yes.

  268. logging... by ZenDragon · · Score: 1

    We have had this problem in the past. We implemented a BSOD style of system that would literally consume the entire space of the application being run to notify them of errors. No possible way they could miss it, they are not allowed to continue without restarting the application. In addition to the error message we would log basically a full stack trace to a central logging database along with a time stamp, user id, application name, etc. So a use reporting an issue would need only to read a quick id that showed on the error message and we could look it up in the database without having to pester the user for more information. This process seems to work well, and I think they key to get around the task asfixiation thing is to simply not allow them to continue with their session if it is a process breaking errors. For the most part, all other non-ciritical errors that arent affecting data or process are logged silently.

  269. Re: Great point, but .... by element-o.p. · · Score: 1

    So what would improve this? I think users would like computers to ignore error conditions until they're done with all input related to performing an operation, for starters. Don't want them to click through a warning dialog? Ok ... then don't present them with it until the end.

    Yikes!!! That sounds all warm and fuzzy, but the first thing that came to my mind was, "Great...the computer detected way back at step one that it can't do anything with the data I am about to enter because my network card failed, so the data won't be stored (no network drive) and it won't be submitted (can't reach the database server). However, it's going to wait until I've taken half an hour to enter everything and *THEN* tell me that I was wasting my time."

    Ideally, you could write the data to local storage until it could be submitted, but I've seen web apps do exactly what I described above.

    --
    MCSE? No, sir...I don't do Windows. Yes, I am an idealist. What's your point?
  270. Re:Oh, I dunno, try making the error messages usef by einhverfr · · Score: 1

    Your restaurant performed an illegal operation and will be shut down. (Health department officials on their way....)

    --

    LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
  271. boxes that you click away by Mirar · · Score: 1

    The problem seems to be the boxes that you click away. Everyone gets a million of those boxes every day, noone reads them and they are clicked away as fast as possible because you're busy and don't have time to read silly things.

    So, maybe:

    1) there should only be boxes that are important

    or

    2) the actually important messages should appear elsewhere, for instance on a part of the screen that stays there and doesn't have to be clicked away

    The second solution would actually solve the tech support problem. "Read to me the red text in the bottom right of the screen", would be much easier to answer than "what was in one of the million boxes you clicked away earlier today that was actually important".

  272. Re:Oh, I dunno, try making the error messages usef by erple2 · · Score: 1

    What business are you in? That's right. SHIPPING SOFTWARE. You do not develop software. You do not write code. All of that is completely immaterial. It is simply a means to do what you are in the business of. The single most important thing that you do is ship software. You WILL ship cringeworthy code. You WILL ship unfinished code. You should darned well accept that. The "When it's ready" is a total cop out. Virtually NOBODY has that luxury of shipping "when it's ready" code. The demands of schedule and finance will dictate when you can ship, not any esoteric nonsense about "when it's ready". If you run out of money developing the software, then who cares if you're holding on to this notion of not shipping when it's ready? Nobody. If code is developed, and that code is scrapped on a shelf, was it ever written?

    You can't blame management for your inability to communicate. People sit down and blame management continually about every little detail about "I don't care, ship it!". Remember, that's because what you do is SHIP CODE. Management wants that stuff on the shelf yesterday because you didn't convince them that it wasn't possible. You can say that you did, and that stupid management ignored you, but the reality is that you're just plain wrong.

    There HAS to be a reason why there are plenty of successful software applications out there that shipped "unfinished". BTW, how you handle the second part of shipping code (ie what you do with software patches) is where you can redeem yourself.

  273. Don't Ask - Look For Yourself by Flere+Imsaho · · Score: 1

    I don't bother asking users to describe anything any more. I just remote in with UltraVNC and have a look myself.

    --
    It gripped her hand gently. 'Regret is for humans,' it said.
  274. Swear words by DeadCatX2 · · Score: 1

    Include cussing or other language that is likely to get the user's attention.

    "Your network connection is fucked." Easy to understand, and will grab your users' attention.

    --
    :(){ :|:& };:
  275. Re:simply not, , reading the error by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 1
    the impression that the user is in some undeserving class, and that it's the user's fault for being there

    Damned right it is! No user: no problems.

    --
    Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
  276. Re:Error messages are for the programmers, not use by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Maybe it was a "percentage of browsers visited this webpage" component.

    Also, it's easy to bitch about such things in hindsight. It's also easy to _imagine_ getting permission to send log files automagically to the supplier, rather than _actually_ getting permission.

  277. The problem is in the design by chadfactor · · Score: 1

    The reason user's don't read the error messages is largely because, they don't mean anything to anyone but the person who wrote the application or environment. I have been a software developer for over 10 years, and I have difficulty understanding half the error messages I read on a daily basis. Developers, majoritively, lack the understanding that the people who will see their error messages the most, have no idea what 'data' or 'uninitialized' even mean. Even if they do know that basic stuff, that doesn't mean to say they know how it relates to the specific application and what has gone wrong. They will never remember what it said. If you speak english as your only language and you read a sign containing 10 or 20 words in arabic.... are you going to remember what it said half an hour or a day later when you speak with your support guy ? I doubt it. People ignore and fear what they don't understand. Make useful error messages, and people will most likely not only remember what went wrong, they may know how to fix it themselves. ;)

  278. Re:If clicking the OK box makes the error go away. by ckarras · · Score: 1

    I like the IDE (Eclipse, Visual Studio...) way: - group all errors into a list - double-click on a error takes user to the screen/field that causes the error - fields causing errors are highlighted - when possible, a "autofix" icon next to the error can be clicked to see a list of suggested fixes. Clicking on a suggestion applies the fix (similar to Resharper) The missing part to make this a realistic option would be frameworks that make this easy to implement for "business applications"

  279. Chicken? Check. Egg? Check. Launch! by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 1

    So, which came first?

    The farm.

  280. Should've used keyboard shortcuts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Since you're basically operating blindly, you should have said:

    Open your web browser. Hold down the Alt key. Hold down the D key. Release both the Alt key and the D key. Now type I N T R A N E T and then hit enter.

    As a bonus, the person learns a faster way to point their web browser.

  281. Science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You should consider looking into books on improving memory. There are very simple techniques that make things easy to remember - like adding movement. E.g. an animation is easier to remember than an icon.

    I'm not that much into memory techniques but say, nine different errors could be nine different animations with combinations of three animals combined with three objects - all interacting differently (dog, rabbit, crow, ball, cake, hat). A dog bites a ball, a rabbit eats a cake. A crow balances on a ball. A rabbit jumps on a hat, a dog burries a cake etc.

  282. Good luck by xenocide2 · · Score: 1

    We can't get developers to pay attention to compiler warnings, what makes you think users are going to fare better?

    --
    I Browse at +4 Flamebait

    Open Source Sysadmin

  283. Basic user here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A someone who is just barely more informed about computers than his fellows, I know that seeing an error message with a lot of numbers and "technobabble" words just causes me to space it all out. A simple code such as you suggest would be VERY helpful in allowing me to note and report the error message.

    One thought: you might want to avoid using actual colors in case any of your people are color blind.

  284. Do not pander to ignorance. by RFguy · · Score: 1

    Society should be expected to keep up with current terminology and technology. I don't think we should pander to them by making it stupidly simple. Although the idea of an error message opening the lolcatz page is hilarious/ "Do you see cute kittens with terrible grammar" "yes, ooozy boozy kwittens" "Ok your problem is x" Idiocracy here we come.

  285. One of my experiences by QuestorTapes · · Score: 1

    Application from hell. Client was almost ready to accept delivery of an application from another firm. Application was to distribute procedure documents created by central office.

    Client forgot to develop and application to generate the procedure documents.

    We had to slap together a tool to do this in less than 1/100 the time used to design the original application.

    Did I mention it needed to support rich text, linked documents incremental translation and editing for the overseas offices?

    Duct taped together several programs (Word, Access, Excel, others), users had to follow instructions and prompts. But, users don't -read- instructions or prompts.

    One guy on my team wrote a custom messagebox. Anywhere any code called Windows MessageBox, it logged to a flat file:

      - the calling function and context
      - the exact title of the message
      - the exact text of the message body
      - the exact selection the user made

    Tech support could view the flat file, read backwards, and see exactly what the user did, then walk them through doing it correctly.

    Still a pain, but a manageable one.

  286. Re:Oh, I dunno, try making the error messages usef by ZERO1ZERO · · Score: 1

    I think that as caused by the BSOD. ( the Bleu Steak Of Death )

  287. Stop blaming users - conduct usability testing! by cia9* · · Score: 1

    Stop blaming users - conduct usability testing! Poor interface design is the problem. This may not be sexy, but: Most error messages are not seen because they are competing for the user's (limited) attention. Common problems: Unexpected placement. Incomprehensible messages. Think like a user, or better yet, conduct usability testing. At @InterfaceGuru, over hundreds of usability tests, we ALWAYS ask users what they see "first." Every application is different, so testing is warranted above and beyond best practices. With all due respect to RFguy, society can only keep up with technology when we make it universally accessible.

    --
    cia9* Wanting the moon + 9 stars
  288. VIRUS DETECTED! by martynd · · Score: 1

    Clearly you just need to make it a popup resembling My Computer stating in massive bold capitals VIRUS DETECTED ON YOUR COMPUTER! TO REMOVE IT DO THE FOLLOWING:

    Followed by your error message. Clearly this works for the malware industry, why shouldnt it work for legitimate folks like us?

  289. try writing readable error messages by mangodhamma · · Score: 1

    It's clear from scanning a good portion of the replies that the first obstacle is the utter contempt in which many Help Desk jockeys seem to hold the average user. Sorry guys (and it's always guys) but I bought a computer to do stuff with not to be a code monkey. When I get an error message like Error: No default for Main.CNode at 13:1-13:29.(Id 219,[(Id 200,Id 249)])it's clear the intended audience was not me. When I do get an error message in something that resembles English, I try to figure it out, I go read the FAQs, I try a forum or two, I thrash around and believe it or not I sometimes manage to sort out the problem. You have had some sensible suggestions from slashdotters like snspdaard, codehog, geoffrey.landis and gestalt n pepper. Try putting the crude humor aside and pay attention. Believe it or not there are a few users out here who do know what a power cable is.

  290. Scorn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    First I want to get out of the way the fact that interface design in Windows(tm) is the most godawful shitty mess I've ever seen. Finishing an action with no error should not pop up a dialog saying "Your action finished correctly". Ridiculous and annoying, and trains everyone to quickly click on everything because 99% of that idiot boxes are unimportant and they are really an impediment to work: nothing bad has happened but they are not progressing unless they click there fast. That's rational behavior on everyone's part. Heck, those stupid dialogs could go even further and pop up every 20 seconds for no reason at all. That has to stop. When an important one pops up, they have clicked something before they realize they should have called me.

    So I understand that and I'm not hard on the smart people. Now, on to the idiots. Scorn. That works every time. It works on small people because their stupid world is big about how others act around them. Their minds (for lack of a better word) are highly trained on small, petty feelings like shame and that's where you should hit. Scorn them, calmly, dispassionately, (not with irony! they don't get it!) as if you are talking to a disappointing animal (you are, but they think they are pretty smart, and don't see that coming until after you are gone). Say something along the lines of 'don't waste my time again' or 'call me only if you can still read the message' or, if you are grumpier than the usual me and it's been several times of this, just walk away without even opening your mouth and let them chase you and email inane drivel to your boss. Nothing will happen to you, and they learn something sometimes.

    I don't know if my opinion seems far fetched or not, but I can get away with it at my workplace, and it's great. Of course they fear me, some resent me and I get no appreciation from the idiots. But they call rarely.

  291. Two things... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    boobs

  292. Haptic feedback? by RichiH · · Score: 1

    Maybe I can interest you in my newest USB gadget. I decided to go with the mnemonic CrotchBrick (tm). And yes, you can trigger it remotely and repeatedly.

  293. Re:If clicking the OK box makes the error go away. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Gosh, I hate that. Those warnings are there for a reason. If you truly feel they do not apply to your program, then disable those warnings in your Makefile or equivalent. Or actually fix them.

  294. Re:This is a sore subject with me because it's tru by natehoy · · Score: 1

    Which is why the application I work on displays enough information for an experienced user to have some idea of what is going on, and also logs that error message and a memory dump of every variable, open table, open program, and anything else we can gather and puts it all in a central error repository that all the programmers can get to easily. Along with a database where the programmers can put notes associated with each program or error message with suggestions as to causes and how to fix them with the users (which of course is also used to fix underlying problems when there's time).

    A typical support ticket, from a user who reprinted a pick directive that someone else was already working on.

    Experienced user: "Oh, Hi, John. You got a message 5 minutes ago saying the pick you wanted to do was already done? Well, hang on a second." (click, click, tappity tappity tap) "There we are, it says that Frank aready picked the item, you didn't reprint that pick directive by any chance did you? You did, because the original pick was damaged? Looks like Frank somehow got ahold of one or more of the sheets you thought you had thrown out or something. You and Frank need to go compare pick sheets and figure out who needs to pick what. Be sure and pull a report of pending picks for your area and eliminate stuff one of you has already done to save walking around."

    Inexperienced user: "Oh, Hi, John. You got a message 5 minutes ago, but you don't know what it means? Well, hang on a second." (click, click, tappity tappity tap) "There we are, it looks like you were trying to pick something, right? OK, it says that someone else already picked the item, you didn't reprint that pick directive by any chance did you? You didn't? Hmm..." (looks at screen showing John HAD in fact done a pick reprint 15 minutes ago) "Ah, there we have it, must have been a printing error. Frank somehow got the same pick sheet you did and picked that item before you tried, so you and Frank need to have a chat about who is picking what. I'll send you a report of pending picks for your area and you and Frank can divvy it up."

    The database also comes in really handy for identifying problems that the users experience often. "We had program XYZ raise error ABC 24 times yesterday, we need to identify what procedural breakdown is causing this, or what controls we can put in the program to prevent it."

    --
    "This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
  295. Unique Sound? by donak · · Score: 1

    "I've even wondered if it would be possible to expand that to cover the other senses, for example, playing a unique sound with the error."

    Of course it would be possible:

    "STEP AWAY FROM THE KEYBOARD, TOUCH NOTHING ... I'M WARNING YOU, THIS THING IS LOADED!"

    should do the job.

    --
    Don't blame me, it's usually 2 in the morning when I post ...
  296. Screen clutter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because of the online popup revolution of the early 2000s, people have become numb to the sight of error messages. People have formed the habit of immediately closing any window that pops up into their view. They may catch the first part of the message, but most of it is lost to them. They'll close the error message and then not understand why things aren't working correctly.

    This leads me to my bigger pet peeve about those who PARTIALLY read error messages, but don't read the rest out to you. For example, someone may call me and say "I receive an error message while opening my email.. It says could not receive, yadda yadda yadda, and it keeps popping up every time I open my email."

    "..... ok, could you read it to me exactly?"

    "oh, I already closed it."

    ARGH!

    As far as not reading error messages is concerned though, the worst (I have found) are those messages that appear in Internet Explorer on the pale yellow bar. The messages that tell you a popup has been blocked, that you need to download the ActiveX, etc.. Trying to get people to focus their eyes on that bar is like trying to get them to stare at the sun. They just can't do it.

  297. Re:Explaining error messges is what support is for by starcraftsicko · · Score: 1

    This is a very reasonable response. Parent should be modded insightful, not funny.

  298. Here's how I approach it by Atrox666 · · Score: 1

    I've used pictures before and they do work for a lot of people.
    The approach I generally use is to think of an error message like spam. To the user it is spam..they just want to accomplish their task and most don't like the computer at all. This message is just an annoyance. So you approach it like a spammer. 1) you can scare them into reading it. I would send out a critical virus update with the title "ACTION IMMEDIATELY TO AVOID SERVICE INTERRUPTION" You do run the risk of the boy who cried wolf so use it sparingly. Much like spam the caps lock is cruise control to awesome. 2) Hook it to something they want. Give a away some new mouse pads or something for early response.
    3) Fake authority: Have a director sign off on it and send out a message people would never read if it came from you. 4)You could try promising them a larger penis but that might be NSFW

  299. Re: Great point, but .... by King_TJ · · Score: 1

    Well, there are several issues here, really.

    First and foremost, why do apps like Photoshop hang the system for 10 seconds when the default is set to an offline network printer? Is that Photoshop's fault, really? No, it's an inherent problem/defect in the way Windows handles network devices! There's no reason it should take a computer 10 seconds (of CPU intensive behavior, to the point it hangs the app running in the foreground!) to figure out a specific network device isn't online! Why have so many people decided this is "acceptable" for so long?

    As for giving error messages AFTER a task is completed? Really, it depends on the type of task -- but a message telling them the printer wasn't connected so the job will print when it's re-attached? Even if they click past that, assuming it doesn't apply - they should get a clue when their print job never appears.

    I agree that people should be smart enough to follow basic instructions. They can handle things like a "fuel low" indicator on a car, because it's very basic. A warning lamp illuminates, usually right on top of the gauge monitoring the level of fuel remaining - and it's pretty easy for anyone to make the connection that it's trying to call your attention to the state of that gauge. If only software errors were so straight-forward!

  300. Re:Oh, I dunno, try making the error messages usef by randyleepublic · · Score: 0

    What is a BA? I guess it must be a [something] Analyst, yes? Well, to amplify rdavidson's comment, the one time I worked for a software company as a QA, there were no specs, to speak of, and there were no BAs or any other sort of As at all! Not one person in that multi-national software firm had the title of Analyst. I'm serious. So, it was a little hard to complain to the developers about their crappy dialogs without a meaningful spec. I would do so anyway, and sometimes they got better. Often they didn't. Not one of the other QAs made a peep. So, when I finally got my promotion, it was to the Testing Automation Team - the first unit to get axed when there's a downturn. You know the rest of the story.

    --
    Social Credit would solve everything...
  301. My Two Cents by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Here's an idea: let the user ignore the error, but you make it more noticeable over time. For example you could have some sort of a toolbar (people always ignore these) with the error message (or something along the lines of "Click here to report this error."). The user is free to ignore this message (and they will), so why don't you force it on them without blindly clicking on an OK button? Like, make the toolbar grow by 50% every minute, or every time the ignorant user clicks somewhere else...

  302. Critical errors comes with... by Fotograf · · Score: 1

    time delayed activation of confirm buttons and different color of dialog.

    --
    God's gift to chicks
  303. If users are ignoring your error messages... by Kagetsuki · · Score: 1

    If users are ignoring your error messages then you have too many error messages. Users train themselves to ignore error messages because they see the same errors or types of errors over and over. Particularly popup errors will annoy the crap out of the average user to the point that if any popup error shows up they'll just OK them out of frustration or spite. If the user didn't fill out a field that is necessary for example, DON'T pop up a message indicating they didn't fill out field X, instead turn the label of field X red or something like that. It's the difference between saying to a user "you forgot this" with a simple indication and getting up into their face and saying "you are an idiot" with an generic error message popup. The fact that you have users calling you so much because of error messages to begin with is concerning; that is indicative to me that your users are fighting with your software or it is not intuitive enough or it is buggy.

  304. First Question.. by MercTech · · Score: 1

    Also, try asking "Are you the person that received the problem?"

    Ask who found the problem....

    I have trouble counting how many times I've had an error in a program, read the error code, knew what the problem was and a few potential fixes but didn't have admin so I could fix it myself. I let the supervisor know there is a problem and have a clueless supervisor jump in and give IT a load of crap and be unable to even read the message on the screen. I guess the words there were not in his crossword puzzle dictionary.

    Remember, a trained manager can manage anything even if they don't understand it just like a trained teacher can teach anything even if they don't understand it. (If you believe this I have shares in a big bridge in Brooklyn you might be interested in.)

    As to not reading error messages... try poking one spot on your skin over and over... the spot becomes numb. MS Windows give out so many irrelevant popups that you have to click through that it becomes second nature to "close the damned window that is covering up what you are doing".

    I really enjoy having the error log in Windows 7. It allows me to go back and see what irrelevant errors popped up while I was doing something else. i.e. "X application cannot connect" errors that come up when you do not have an internet connection. (peeve - programs that insist on trying to phone home when you are working in standalone)

    --
    NRRPT/RCT
  305. sudo fix this by tepples · · Score: 1

    Possibly one of the most annoying error messages I see are the ones that end "Please contact your system administrator."

    That tends to pop up when the common solutions involve a setting that one would have to sudo to change or (in well-locked-down installations) even look at.

  306. Modeless error messages by tepples · · Score: 1

    You could grey out the "send" button until all the required data is filled in - this eliminates the need for an error message because it prevents the "sending with a blank recipient" condition ever occurring. But the cost is high - you're now relying on the user to figure out for themselves why the "send" button can't be pressed, instead of allowing them to press it and then informing them why it doesn't make sense by displaying an error message.

    Or you could display the error message in a form other than an alert box, such as the tooltip on the disabled Send button. For example, "Send the message" becomes "Send the message once you have put an address in To:". The early implementation of tooltips in Mac OS 7.x, called "Balloon Help", did it this way.

  307. Can read but not write by tepples · · Score: 1

    The design of your program is faulty; it should not be able to load or especially modify a file type it can't save.

    For some formats, it's a lot easier to write a reliable importer than a reliable exporter. This happens in three cases:

    • The source format represents something in a different domain from the one that the program ordinarily edits, such as GIMP's ability to import and rasterize SVG drawings.
    • The format is a trade secret and horribly denormalized, and the only way an importer got written in the first place was from reverse engineering. I'm looking at you, Microsoft Word .doc.
    • The program is distributed in a jurisdiction with software patents. It could be that encoding is patented but decoding is not, as in the case of GIF before the patent expired mid-2004. Or the program is licensed to decode but not encode, as in the case of Winamp's Disk Writer feature or some programs that handle H.264 video.

    Why would any application reformat the hard drive?

    Because it is a third-party replacement for an operating system component. Partition Magic is an example.

    There is a time stamp, there should be no reason why I can't have two files with the same name.

    If an application's response to a duplicate filename is appending the date and/or time to the filename, that just makes the operating system show "Your disk is full" that much sooner.

    The only time you should have to reboot for any kind of update is an update to the kernel or file system.

    A lot of applications install something that affects the kernel (such as a device driver) or the default file manager (such as a shell extension).

  308. Need legible error messages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Getting users to read error messages requires (drum roll please!) ERROR MESSAGES THAT MEAN SOMETHING! Shocking, I know, but most users have absolutely no idea what IRQL = 0x#$%%#@ means or why they should care. On the other hand, an error message such as "USB Driver Failed; if this is the first time reboot, if not call the (no!) help desk" they might actually read the error message and respond.

    I have a Comp Sci degree, and a Masters and almost a Ph.D. in Engineering - and where I work, I don't understand all of the error messages being generated...

  309. Simple SA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The real issue, seems to me, is to convey some actual information in the error messages. That is, something more than 'An error has occurred'. That gives basically no "actionable" direction, but constitutes 80%-90% of the messages I troubleshoot.

  310. Re:Oh, I dunno, try making the error messages usef by Geminii · · Score: 1

    Also, the use of "Yes" "No" and "Cancel" should be BANNED from dialogue boxes. Make the buttons actually say what they are going to do.

    [Yes, you are absolutely right!] [What? That's stupid!] [No comment] [More info, please]

    Additionally, in a corporate environment, why not make in-house app errors load part of their text from an external database that the Helpdesk can modify? (For example, the error can have a short, unchanging alphanumeric code string as an index, followed by a 255-character field.) After all, it's the Helpdesk that the user will be calling 99% of the time, so they've got the most invested in coming up with and tweaking text which will make the user NOT call them.

  311. Re:Explaining error messges is what support is for by Geminii · · Score: 1

    "What's your time worth? Now how much of it do you waste calling us when you could have been back to work five seconds later if you'd just read what was right in front of you?"

  312. Re:"Made to Stick" supports the 'puppy picture' id by david.emery · · Score: 1

    No winners. Xerox/SDS Sigma series error message if you mistyped the name of an executable.