So yet again, only -one- focused on the murder and abortion, -one- focused on grammar, and the entire rest of the comments to my thread were on topic. That's great.
Interesting, from my example only two posts actually stayed on the example topic, the rest discussed the parent topic itself and the origonal subject I brought up - having two opinions is fine. The one that tried to improve upon how my example was worded, and thus not an issue that got them worked up, was modded off topic. The same for the one that actually got worked up, which was also modded as being off topic.
So, if only one out of all the replies to this actually got "worked up" over the example, how on earth can you see the example as not having gotten the point across?
Well, no. There was a thread discussion, but not a big one. There are still a large group of us who still think the Lycos attack was a good step, and we are free to have that opinion.
The internet isn't a courtroom, nor a single national jurisdiction. How can we rely upon either to solve problems in a world not founded nor oriented around neither. The internet is the Wild Wild West, and will remain that way. And like the Wild Wild West, you can have sheriff's all you want... but in the end.. a man's got to do what a man's got to do to take down someone who threatens their community.
We have one opinion about taking down spammers, but we have a seperate opinion about services that we may be using.
I think that's perfectly fine. For some reason, people want us to have a single unified opinion about a broad range of subjects that are different from one another. Each answer and opinion needs to be circumstantial and based on each instance rather than sweeping generalizations, otherwise we end up in a situation similar to:
(Note: This isn't a political statement, nor am I trying to show my opinion, it's just the example that seemed to fit the most right now)
Man: So are you for or against abortion?
Woman: AGAINST! It's wrong, it's taking life, and is the same as murder! Any instance of it is WRONG! Put it up for adoption, or take some responcibility!
Man: So you are saying that if the young woman was raped so badly, that she should have the child from the instance regardless of the future psychological damage it would have on her? And even if having the child would, if the circumstance brought it up, kill her?
Well, until about 3am (mountain time) the game will be down tonight due to the release of a HUGE upgrade named Exodus. Not to worry, tomorrow things should be as good as new.
If you would like a free seven day trial, let me know and I'll activate one for you as soon as the servers come online tonight/this morning.
Because I was referring to the typical time it takes to get a gentoo machine off the ground from a stage 1 process. I know, because I've done it many times when I heavily enjoyed the gentoo community.
And I brought up the two days because we were talking about package management and wanted to show that the only difference between the dep handlers that gentoo got the idea from, and the actual emerge it self was source versus binary. And that even the benifit of source compiling rarley beat a precompiled binary (in this case example, i686) in speed and clockcycles.
Why is it that the ones who post Anonymously are the ones who typically don't have a clue regarding what the discussion is about, and thus things have to be explained on a simple and basic level for them?
If you like a bit of roleplay, enjoy rpg style action blended with amazing graphics... you might want to consider EVE online. There are a ton of reasons why, but I'll brush up on only a few:
1. No level grind. Since this game takes place in the future (WAY in the future) the human mind no longer learns just through experiences, it learns through memory chips. You insert them Matrix-style and your brain processes the information. This means, instead of killing over and over for experience you can just right click on your skill list (obtained by purchasing them), and set it to learn. Each skill has 5 total levels to it, the skills are organized into different ranks(difficulty) of learning them.
At that point, that's it. You're done with the leveling. Now you just wait for it to complete. Some skills take 6 minutes to learn, some 39 days to fully learn (like Navigation level 5). However, that's okay because you can continue learning skills even while not logged in. That's right, you can be away on a cruise and still be learning skills. Just set it to a LONG term skill (say a week or two) and go on the cruise. While you are away, the skill is cheerfully working it's way into your character's brain.
2. Space. It's a massive area just begging for a good MMORPG to take hold of it. Fortunatally EVE Online has. EVE online is a space-flight based game in third person mode, using rpg style controls rather than first person controlling.
3. The graphics continually amaze everyone who plays. Here are some from my own character ingame:
4. Customer service is actually very helpful, and by that I mean familiar with the topic they are trying to help you on because support not only progroms EVE, but is most likely also one of the GM's ingame. They are network professionals who deal with the problems as soon as they appear.
Anyways blah blah blah, sell sell sell. Give it a trial, and see if it may end up being something you could spend $15 a month on.
The process Gentoo uses is almost identical to the way debian, fedora, freebsd, openbsd, and slapt-get work. They all sort out all the depedencies and download the required files/deps.
The ONLY difference is that they are precompiled binaries versus source. Which.. mind you, if you use i686 compiled binaries in the first place (ala dropline for slackware) then the actual speed/loading difference between your gentoo binary and my already compiled slackware binary are in the millaseconds.
That's right, millaseconds of a difference. Not worth even two days of wasting compiling time. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to bash Gentoo. But let's not try and pull a smoke and mirrors act to make people thing that gentoo was the inventor of a clean package system. Even the lead developers of Gentoo will speak of how they got the idea and base workings from the FreeBSD portage system.
You are correct in that program access is contained. However, the primary difference, and of course I could be wrong, is that it is only blocking program name access to the internet rather than allowing outgoing port blocking. For instance, you could allow the AIM program to connect to the internet, but still not be able to control whether or not the port used by AIM can be blocked on outgoing.
If I'm wrong on this, someone please let us all know. As I'm only 95% sure of this and tired
There isn't a way to block outgoing access, as it is an incoming only firewall. Good catch:)
I never said it could do outgoing, and I did say that there are better alternatives out there. Don't get me wrong, I know the firewall in SP2 is limited, but I also know that the information the parent poster provided was completely inaccurate. MeErely wanted to clear up a few things.
And yes, you are entirley correct. The custom section does have that minor exploit, but since the SP2 is targetted moreso with home users 255.255.255.0 would only be their brother/father's/sisters/dog's computer on the same network as them, and thus only someone on the same home network could have unlimited access with default FW configurations. Of course, if I'm wrong please correct me. Also, if a buisness or anyone other than a typical home user network wanted to focus on security, then let's hope their tech knows enough to have a hardware firewall/router and not depend upon software alternatives.
I'm glad it did work for you. But it certainly isn't something recommended nor encouraged merely because it's a risk. This is a large reason why so many people have a bad opinion about SP and I have had very little with my customers. SP2 done properly very very rarely causes a problem, so long as the system is clean and for the most part bugfree.
Too many variables to slap on a huge system upgrade when holes and bugs could exist in things the user did, and thus not something an sp2 could fix. Don't rely on SP2 to solve problems occuring in the system is all I'm saying. Treat it as an update to the system, not a bug fix to something like IE crashing on loadup.
SP2 was meant to take a working system and secure it beyond the normal level of security.
If IE or any part of the system was borked, you should have run a virus scan, spyware scan, and troubleshot the problem before slapping SP2 on.
Never assume a security update can solve already existing errors within the operating system. SP2 is not to blame here, refusal to solve the problems before upgrading the system is on your side.
Did you look past the fact that it not only allows filtering per program, but also per port? You can open up and allow specific services, programs, instances, and protocols. It's very configurable, granted not as powerful as other 3rd party peices of software (kerio), but still impressive in the hands of someone who knows and understands the features of SP2.
See that little "Advanced" tab beside the firewall? Yeah, you might want to take a look at that beforehand.
The examples were only examples, nothing more, and hence thus why I said example. I'm quite sure most readers (that aren't out with a jackboot) will get the drift of what I am saying.
If a user wants simplicity, then they will get a simple search. If a user wants an advanced and refined search, then that requires advanced knowledge of google.
If people go elsewhere, oh well. those who know how to use the search engine properly will still be here, educating those who do not know how to use it. Know why? Because eliminating all spam and fake pages from searches won't happen. It just won't due to the time it would take to check each and every page for content, much less content defeating methods.
It isn't about having a better search engine, so much as it is knowing how to use it. If you are looking for information on a recipe for oriental rice using asian spice, how would you search?
Bad search example:
oriental rice recipe asian spice
Good search example:
recipe+"oriental rice"+spice
See the difference? google tries its best to get rid of the spam pages, but it won't ever combat them all. Half of the work has to be done with you understanding the best way to describe to the search engine, what it is you want to do. The better you explain it, the better it can search for you.
Sucks? Odd, it has never onced crashed for me in Windows, Linux, or OpenBSD.
In fact I've even had the following plugins work without hassle nor error: flash, quicktime, realmedia, wmv, mid, and so forth. And unless you are either A.) behind in internet news regarding programs you use or B.) only have an internet connection ever few months, then the plugins created by 3rd parties (such as tab prefernces and all-in-one mouse gestures) won't cause you conflicts.
It renders CSS1 and CSS2 with a lethal whip of strictness, much like how it handles HTML. Not to mention that if you have -ever- even seen the source code, you will notice how streamlined it is compared to most other browsers on the web. You're blowing hot air and spreading FUD, without research.
Chances are, you are one of the people who stopped using Windows because "it was buggy", but never took the time to figure out why it was crashing on you and not the people who have had amazing, bug-free experiences with it. Or, you could be the Windows zealot who refuses to use Linux because you won't take the time to learn the interface, and thus choose to whine about how "unfriendly" it is, when in fact it's only different.
Anonymous Cowards... got to love the spineless bastards in the world.
Incredible speech. Seriously, that spoke mountains of truth about how America and the American media interact with one another.
Don't ever confuse the majority of American public with a group of people who know what they are talking about (I'm American, careful with that Troll) simply because of their greedy views towards.. well.. everything. Like a moth to the flame, the American people will suck up the news that is released by our media and then place it on stone commandments as "indestructable facts". The only freedom that most of us exersize is our ability to act like we are on the top of the world, able to ignore the insights of those beyond our "special kingdom of god" (aka: abused first amendment).
What will it take for America to wake up? Another Rome? Another Nazi empire? Must another vast empire/large nation fall before we remember history class?
They aren't asking normal users to give them the information.
What good is asking a complete beginner to Linux their exact model and make numbers? None at all. That's why this is a -beta- test and not a final release. They have to collect the model numbers so that when people ask (and they WILL ask) if their specific model of hardware is supported, they can say "Yes" or "No", instead of the typical Linux answer "Try it and see".
Beta testers is for people who know how to test a system, not for people who are learning to use a computer.
Slashdot Mirror
http://autoform.mozdev.org/
That can solve your problems for now, somewhat. Give it a runthrough.
So yet again, only -one- focused on the murder and abortion, -one- focused on grammar, and the entire rest of the comments to my thread were on topic. That's great.
You get a gold star for the day.
Interesting, from my example only two posts actually stayed on the example topic, the rest discussed the parent topic itself and the origonal subject I brought up - having two opinions is fine. The one that tried to improve upon how my example was worded, and thus not an issue that got them worked up, was modded off topic. The same for the one that actually got worked up, which was also modded as being off topic.
So, if only one out of all the replies to this actually got "worked up" over the example, how on earth can you see the example as not having gotten the point across?
Did you even read the thread?
I'm afraid your chance to troll has failed, while the rest of /. has understood how the example applies completely.
This ends a lesson on why argument by wit is a bad idea.
Well, no. There was a thread discussion, but not a big one. There are still a large group of us who still think the Lycos attack was a good step, and we are free to have that opinion.
The internet isn't a courtroom, nor a single national jurisdiction. How can we rely upon either to solve problems in a world not founded nor oriented around neither. The internet is the Wild Wild West, and will remain that way. And like the Wild Wild West, you can have sheriff's all you want... but in the end.. a man's got to do what a man's got to do to take down someone who threatens their community.
Of course, that too, is just my opinion.
We have one opinion about taking down spammers, but we have a seperate opinion about services that we may be using.
I think that's perfectly fine. For some reason, people want us to have a single unified opinion about a broad range of subjects that are different from one another. Each answer and opinion needs to be circumstantial and based on each instance rather than sweeping generalizations, otherwise we end up in a situation similar to:
(Note: This isn't a political statement, nor am I trying to show my opinion, it's just the example that seemed to fit the most right now)
Man: So are you for or against abortion?
Woman: AGAINST! It's wrong, it's taking life, and is the same as murder! Any instance of it is WRONG! Put it up for adoption, or take some responcibility!
Man: So you are saying that if the young woman was raped so badly, that she should have the child from the instance regardless of the future psychological damage it would have on her? And even if having the child would, if the circumstance brought it up, kill her?
Woman: Well.. um
I'm having fun just watching the page do it's job
Anyone thought about it? Tinfoil hats on, it would explain why such a bizarr move was pulled in the first place.
1. Take the firefox build of one of the worst milestones possible.
2. Allow it to use the IE Rendering Engine
3. When it breaks, runs slow, has the same bugs as IE, blame it on the firefox base code.
4. The users of the new netscape browser will think that firefox (that browser everyone keeps talking about) is just as bad as IE.
5. IE users stay IE users, even netscape users because now they don't feel there is any reason to use firefox if it breaks all the time.
6. ????
7. Profit!!!
Comparing WoW to the legendary DnD is like comparing ...
No, you just don't do it.
Well, until about 3am (mountain time) the game will be down tonight due to the release of a HUGE upgrade named Exodus. Not to worry, tomorrow things should be as good as new.
If you would like a free seven day trial, let me know and I'll activate one for you as soon as the servers come online tonight/this morning.
Because I was referring to the typical time it takes to get a gentoo machine off the ground from a stage 1 process. I know, because I've done it many times when I heavily enjoyed the gentoo community.
And I brought up the two days because we were talking about package management and wanted to show that the only difference between the dep handlers that gentoo got the idea from, and the actual emerge it self was source versus binary. And that even the benifit of source compiling rarley beat a precompiled binary (in this case example, i686) in speed and clockcycles.
Why is it that the ones who post Anonymously are the ones who typically don't have a clue regarding what the discussion is about, and thus things have to be explained on a simple and basic level for them?
http://www.eve-online.com
If you like a bit of roleplay, enjoy rpg style action blended with amazing graphics... you might want to consider EVE online. There are a ton of reasons why, but I'll brush up on only a few:
1. No level grind. Since this game takes place in the future (WAY in the future) the human mind no longer learns just through experiences, it learns through memory chips. You insert them Matrix-style and your brain processes the information. This means, instead of killing over and over for experience you can just right click on your skill list (obtained by purchasing them), and set it to learn. Each skill has 5 total levels to it, the skills are organized into different ranks(difficulty) of learning them.
At that point, that's it. You're done with the leveling. Now you just wait for it to complete. Some skills take 6 minutes to learn, some 39 days to fully learn (like Navigation level 5). However, that's okay because you can continue learning skills even while not logged in. That's right, you can be away on a cruise and still be learning skills. Just set it to a LONG term skill (say a week or two) and go on the cruise. While you are away, the skill is cheerfully working it's way into your character's brain.
2. Space. It's a massive area just begging for a good MMORPG to take hold of it. Fortunatally EVE Online has. EVE online is a space-flight based game in third person mode, using rpg style controls rather than first person controlling.
3. The graphics continually amaze everyone who plays. Here are some from my own character ingame:
Screenshot 1
Screenshot 2
Screenshot 3
Screenshot 4
4. Customer service is actually very helpful, and by that I mean familiar with the topic they are trying to help you on because support not only progroms EVE, but is most likely also one of the GM's ingame. They are network professionals who deal with the problems as soon as they appear.
Anyways blah blah blah, sell sell sell. Give it a trial, and see if it may end up being something you could spend $15 a month on.
The process Gentoo uses is almost identical to the way debian, fedora, freebsd, openbsd, and slapt-get work. They all sort out all the depedencies and download the required files/deps.
The ONLY difference is that they are precompiled binaries versus source. Which.. mind you, if you use i686 compiled binaries in the first place (ala dropline for slackware) then the actual speed/loading difference between your gentoo binary and my already compiled slackware binary are in the millaseconds.
That's right, millaseconds of a difference. Not worth even two days of wasting compiling time. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to bash Gentoo. But let's not try and pull a smoke and mirrors act to make people thing that gentoo was the inventor of a clean package system. Even the lead developers of Gentoo will speak of how they got the idea and base workings from the FreeBSD portage system.
You are correct in that program access is contained. However, the primary difference, and of course I could be wrong, is that it is only blocking program name access to the internet rather than allowing outgoing port blocking. For instance, you could allow the AIM program to connect to the internet, but still not be able to control whether or not the port used by AIM can be blocked on outgoing.
If I'm wrong on this, someone please let us all know. As I'm only 95% sure of this and tired
There isn't a way to block outgoing access, as it is an incoming only firewall. Good catch :)
I never said it could do outgoing, and I did say that there are better alternatives out there. Don't get me wrong, I know the firewall in SP2 is limited, but I also know that the information the parent poster provided was completely inaccurate. MeErely wanted to clear up a few things.
And yes, you are entirley correct. The custom section does have that minor exploit, but since the SP2 is targetted moreso with home users 255.255.255.0 would only be their brother/father's/sisters/dog's computer on the same network as them, and thus only someone on the same home network could have unlimited access with default FW configurations. Of course, if I'm wrong please correct me. Also, if a buisness or anyone other than a typical home user network wanted to focus on security, then let's hope their tech knows enough to have a hardware firewall/router and not depend upon software alternatives.
I'm glad it did work for you. But it certainly isn't something recommended nor encouraged merely because it's a risk. This is a large reason why so many people have a bad opinion about SP and I have had very little with my customers. SP2 done properly very very rarely causes a problem, so long as the system is clean and for the most part bugfree.
Too many variables to slap on a huge system upgrade when holes and bugs could exist in things the user did, and thus not something an sp2 could fix. Don't rely on SP2 to solve problems occuring in the system is all I'm saying. Treat it as an update to the system, not a bug fix to something like IE crashing on loadup.
SP2 was meant to take a working system and secure it beyond the normal level of security.
If IE or any part of the system was borked, you should have run a virus scan, spyware scan, and troubleshot the problem before slapping SP2 on.
Never assume a security update can solve already existing errors within the operating system. SP2 is not to blame here, refusal to solve the problems before upgrading the system is on your side.
Did you look past the fact that it not only allows filtering per program, but also per port? You can open up and allow specific services, programs, instances, and protocols. It's very configurable, granted not as powerful as other 3rd party peices of software (kerio), but still impressive in the hands of someone who knows and understands the features of SP2.
See that little "Advanced" tab beside the firewall? Yeah, you might want to take a look at that beforehand.
The examples were only examples, nothing more, and hence thus why I said example. I'm quite sure most readers (that aren't out with a jackboot) will get the drift of what I am saying.
If a user wants simplicity, then they will get a simple search. If a user wants an advanced and refined search, then that requires advanced knowledge of google.
If people go elsewhere, oh well. those who know how to use the search engine properly will still be here, educating those who do not know how to use it. Know why? Because eliminating all spam and fake pages from searches won't happen. It just won't due to the time it would take to check each and every page for content, much less content defeating methods.
It isn't about having a better search engine, so much as it is knowing how to use it. If you are looking for information on a recipe for oriental rice using asian spice, how would you search?
Bad search example:
oriental rice recipe asian spice
Good search example:
recipe+"oriental rice"+spice
See the difference? google tries its best to get rid of the spam pages, but it won't ever combat them all. Half of the work has to be done with you understanding the best way to describe to the search engine, what it is you want to do. The better you explain it, the better it can search for you.
Sucks? Odd, it has never onced crashed for me in Windows, Linux, or OpenBSD.
In fact I've even had the following plugins work without hassle nor error: flash, quicktime, realmedia, wmv, mid, and so forth. And unless you are either A.) behind in internet news regarding programs you use or B.) only have an internet connection ever few months, then the plugins created by 3rd parties (such as tab prefernces and all-in-one mouse gestures) won't cause you conflicts.
It renders CSS1 and CSS2 with a lethal whip of strictness, much like how it handles HTML. Not to mention that if you have -ever- even seen the source code, you will notice how streamlined it is compared to most other browsers on the web. You're blowing hot air and spreading FUD, without research.
Chances are, you are one of the people who stopped using Windows because "it was buggy", but never took the time to figure out why it was crashing on you and not the people who have had amazing, bug-free experiences with it. Or, you could be the Windows zealot who refuses to use Linux because you won't take the time to learn the interface, and thus choose to whine about how "unfriendly" it is, when in fact it's only different.
Anonymous Cowards... got to love the spineless bastards in the world.
It is, unless you didn't read the manual?
Or did you need the fedora interface to help you install Linux?
Incredible speech. Seriously, that spoke mountains of truth about how America and the American media interact with one another.
Don't ever confuse the majority of American public with a group of people who know what they are talking about (I'm American, careful with that Troll) simply because of their greedy views towards.. well.. everything. Like a moth to the flame, the American people will suck up the news that is released by our media and then place it on stone commandments as "indestructable facts". The only freedom that most of us exersize is our ability to act like we are on the top of the world, able to ignore the insights of those beyond our "special kingdom of god" (aka: abused first amendment).
What will it take for America to wake up? Another Rome? Another Nazi empire? Must another vast empire/large nation fall before we remember history class?
Seriously, it's nothing more than a karma whore.
They aren't asking normal users to give them the information.
What good is asking a complete beginner to Linux their exact model and make numbers? None at all. That's why this is a -beta- test and not a final release. They have to collect the model numbers so that when people ask (and they WILL ask) if their specific model of hardware is supported, they can say "Yes" or "No", instead of the typical Linux answer "Try it and see".
Beta testers is for people who know how to test a system, not for people who are learning to use a computer.