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The Verdict on WinXP SP2?
A reader writes: "Now that time has passed, people have been giving their opinions as to the effectiveness of Windows SP2. The jury has been good, but mixed." The ITMJ Product Guide is part of OSTG; what's been your, if any, experiences with SP2?
The article's like totally content-free. If you've vaguely heard of XP SP2 before it adds nothing.
And there are no user reviews on the site - the four-day old "discussion" has been "archived".
I'll let you know in a couple of months, when I actually download and install it. I'm waiting for a few more of the "issues" to be worked out.
Kierthos
Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
Most users are going to be confused by the firewall (i.e. my mother) this is not making easier to work with computers. WinXP should be strong enough to be safe with open ports.
The firewall is either on or off, not very configurable.
It's been running for nearly six months now on my Thinkpad T40 (I was in the beta program) and I've never had a problem. I've been able to take off my software firewall and let Windows handle it. No stability issues or compatiblility issues.
;)
A job well done, though it'll pain a moderator to let that last comment stand.
PocketGamer.org - For the gamer on the go!
- sounds like a rare skin disease...
No matter how many SPs they are going to release it will take much more then a patch set to fix this one big security hole. My expirience have been nutral and I am using XP just because my company forces me. Does it suck?, same windows wide open. Did not change or fixed a thing.
Wow talk about relevant... I was at someone's house last night and they had just downloaded Service Pack 2. They were having problems with Internet Explorer so they hoped SP2 would fix it so they let the computer chew away for 5 minutes, then once it was installed they rebooted.
The computer got 5 seconds in to loading Windows before getting a BSOD (which lasted less than a second) before rebooting again.
And again. And again.
After 5/6 crashes it was obvious SP2 had royally fucked the PC up. Luckily we managed to boot up in Safe Mode and use System Restore to undo the effects of SP2 and now the computer is working normally (in fact, the IE problems seem to have gone!).
Now I am very dubious about installing SP2 at work, I think we'll be forced to upgrade before long but MS clearly still have some bugs to squash.
Sorry, but my karma just ran over your dogma.
I work at a boarding school, and we're still trying to prevent it's spread, but I've had great luck with it. Just provided the Desktop staff with slipstreamed install CDs which we have begun using. The small cost of having to disable the firewall (causes more support trouble than it's worth) is a small price to pay to save up to an hour downloading windows updates.
Eventually we're all going to HAVE to upgrade, MS isn't going to support SP1a forever. May as well do it now, if your apps run (don't have any that don't yet).
I really wish MS had a 'rolling' service pack though, that included ALL of the critical updates for a given product. It's going to go back to sucking when I have to drop sixty patches on top of SP2, I'd rather install a 'security rollup'.
I'd install now though, because the upgrade takes so long to install, it's not something you can do in a reactive environment. When the next worm hits, you won't be able to drop SP2 like you dropped the RPC patch, it takes an order of magnitude longer to install.
"Sometimes, I think Trent just needs a cup of hot chocolate and a blankie." -Tori Amos on Nine Inch Nails
My experience?
Since installing it on my brother's computer, my Mum and Dad's c computer. I've found myself having more time to watch TV, then trying to rid their computers of adaware and trying to explain to them why hundreds of screens pop up all the time.
I am not a Windows fan by any lengths, but hey. It's saved me some hassles so I am a happy camper.
Yes, I remember reading here that SP2 had vulnerabilities/holes within...and also that it had spyware. Is this true or just a flame/troll? But even after its release, I was very very skeptical about installing it first time. So I will not install it. Days ago, I had Win2K install a patch after which I lost sound from Media Player! I guess these defects have become as predictable as day-break. Cb..
I downloaded SP2 on my laptop and it caused a ripple effect thus disabling 99% of my non microsoft programs. Thus the last straw to be broken for me to switch to Linux. Looks like Bill is now off my christmas card list :P.
Please keep the Service Pack 2 shot my mother and buggered my dog posts to a minimum.
Thanks,
It doesn't run with Wine.
Signatures are for stupids.
You did not read the EULA did you? Since you installed it, M$ has no responsibility whatsoever when it comes to what breaks or does not work as expected. Be informed. Cb..
1) Search no longer working
2) Windows installer no longer working
and the fixes MS lists involve long registry edits that don't usually work. And these problems happen on most machines I put SP2 on. :-\
Sounds more like your audio drivers than the operating system. The audio subsystem in windows is rock-solid on good hardware with good drivers. If it was a problem with XP itself, we would have heard a LOT more about it, and starting with Windows 2000.
But if IIRC, this SP adds a popup killer, and a personal software firewall (and some bugfixes along with side effects).
So I understand the reason why most of the big Swiss companiesI am working with decided to stay on Windows 2000 (with ActiveX and VBScript deactivated).
Trolling using another account since 2005.
Yeah, the default firewall and other security stuff is pretty nice. Doesn't make much of a difference to me or the amount of crap I find on my clients' computers, though. My favorite aspect of SP2 is the new wifi management app. I used to constantly have random 802.11x connectivity problems, as did many other Windows users. I'd just occasionally get dropped and have to repair the connection. Irritating. But... SP2 fixed it! Yay! Anyone else see this behaviour? -Yoweigh
... on a friend's PC, I guess it has something to do with a limit on the number of open connections a process can have.
as for me, I have a hardware firewall thank you very much.
With all the horror stories I've heard (thought it works fine on my laptop I'm not game enough to put it on my workhorse pc) I'm sticking with SP1 for now. I skipped sp1a cause it is the same as sp1 except microsoft took out the sun java component.
http://www.livejournal.com/users/metricmusic
I installed it, and my Firewire external disk stopped working.
Instant un install.
Is it coincidence that is disables USB disks, which are sometimes used to transport warez?
It be a conspiracy I tell's ya.
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
I think SP2 is the best thing that ever happened. Carshed my computer and since then I haven't had a singel Windowsinstallation running at home. Thank you Microsoft!!! =D
Every now and then I get a bluescreen (never got one with SP1a), and I've been getting video driver crashes when playing games (although I'm suspecting heat, and it's a laptop, so forget upping the cooling). Other than that, it's been great.
It's a Dell Inspiron 1100.
I've installed it on one of my home computers. The only thing that screwed up was that I couldn't connect to my wireless network anymore, but all I had to do was dig out a checkbox that said something about "Windows should manage my wireless networks."
I plan to install it on my other home computer sometime in the next few weeks.
Took a long time though. Found that very irritating. I started at about 8pm, and ended up going to bed before it had finished.
My other processor is big-endian.
Exclusive... to all tech news sites:
In light of the fact that everybody seems to have given in and installed it anyway, we would like to express our gratitude to Bill Gates and his wonderful Microsoft staff for bringing this vital update to the computing community.
We apologise unreservedly for any misunderstandings caused by earlier reports.©All tech news sites.
Many more support requests, especially from XP Home (Student) users who installed the first official release of SP2 (not RTM).
--
Never mind the jury, what was the verdict like?
sudo ergo sum
"After spending an hour on the phone with Microsoft's India-based support team, I resolved the problem. Unfortunately, I never figured out the cause or the fix; things were just suddenly working."
HE resolved the problem without knowing the cause or what he did! WOWSA, it's like magic DOODZ! Better grab this guy for your support team, he's worth his weight in gold!
MS Hint: When speaking to Indian based MS support, for best results, hop up and down three times on left leg. Please contact support if leg is inoperative, leg is missing, or gravitational challange is experienced. A patch will be provided.
Now I'm the grandest Tiger in the Jungle!
My experiences with SP2 have been mostly great! I play the new Grand Theft Auto : San Andreas on it all the time which keeps my parole Orficer really happy as he says it keeps my hands AND mind busy. Fooey to pros having guns now.
"Persistance is Fertile" - Me. I can quote myself if I want to.
What does that mean? The people who are judging the product consists of white and black males and females,with some straight, gay, disabled etc representatives?
Or do they mean that the verdict was good, but mixed. Which means...mixed, and not good.
It looks like the grammar and spelling of the articles posted here are being dumbed down to the level of most of the comments!
Did you look past the fact that it not only allows filtering per program, but also per port? You can open up and allow specific services, programs, instances, and protocols. It's very configurable, granted not as powerful as other 3rd party peices of software (kerio), but still impressive in the hands of someone who knows and understands the features of SP2.
See that little "Advanced" tab beside the firewall? Yeah, you might want to take a look at that beforehand.
"We're breaking out the ramen noodles. . . "
"Really? Is it someone's birthday?"
You must have a Creative sound card or something. Their drivers for 2000/XP have always been terrible. If you have a SBLive! or Audigy, I recommend getting the kX Project Audio Drivers. They're third party and do a lot of the basic things better than the orginal drivers do. It has things like a fully customizable bus and surround filters so you can upmix stereo music to surround - something Creative dumped when they moved on from Windows 98. EAX is supposedly not supported, but surround seems to be working just fine for me.
It would be cool if it didn't suck.
Several things XP SP2 caused a complete balls-up on, including making my DVD-ROM disappear from My Computer, and a load of other craps. I'm currently preparing to delete Windows and install Linux instead.
(AC Because I've been modding in this thread)
2 Installs of SP2 by me.
First; rendered the machine incapable of booting for no appreciable reason, system restore to remove, and that machine obviously won't be getting it re-installed.
Second; This machine was a clean install of WinXp SP1, immediately upgraded to SP2 through win update. This install worked fine.
My thoughts; overall, shoddy as hell.
Specifically windows firewall if "teh suxxors"; unconfigurable crap, immediately disabled on my PC (i have a hardware firewall that is much more useful in the real world).
Worth noting that the second install was runnning Norton AV 2003, and SP2 noticed that and was happy. The first (at work) was running Norton Internet Secure-titty 2004 (another POS, by the way) and windows declined to realise that has a virus checker in it.
IE fixes: only the retarded still need fixes for IE - firefox just plain IS BETTER, and any site that requires IE should be avoided (ESPECIALLY if its your onlyine bank; forcing you to use the least secure browser to deal with your bank? priceless...)
All I know is : my machines don't answer to pings anymore. Whatever I do (add rules to allow icmp or disable the firewall completely), it just doesn't work anymore.
BoD
distributed it through the org through SUS. happened in the background. nobody even noticed it. Of course I actually have my users as users,not admins, and I don't let them run filesharing, browse pr0n, etc.
Vote Quimby!
You windows users go back for doing what ever windows does best.
Emacs is good operating system, but it has one flaw: Its text editor could be better.
SP2 was meant to take a working system and secure it beyond the normal level of security.
If IE or any part of the system was borked, you should have run a virus scan, spyware scan, and troubleshot the problem before slapping SP2 on.
Never assume a security update can solve already existing errors within the operating system. SP2 is not to blame here, refusal to solve the problems before upgrading the system is on your side.
"We're breaking out the ramen noodles. . . "
"Really? Is it someone's birthday?"
...is they can't use a spell checker.
Had to disable the firewall, but since I'm always behind a hardware one I think this is ok. But everytime I start windows it's complaining about my computer not being safe and thats a bit annoying. Haven looked up how to disable that.
Explorers popup blocking is nice though sometimes it doesn't work and I don't know why. Maybe it's a deal with Microsoft with some advertisers or something.
On my wish list. I would like the option of having Windows as administrator password before allowing any installation of extensions for explorer. Darn kids keep downloading stuff from different game sites and I can't keep up with them, but don't have a heart to deny playing completely.
(nt stands for no-text)
I think the situation is very simple.
SP2 improves security. This is Good.
Some applications rely on insecure functionality. This is Bad.
SP2 breaks some of these applications. If this affects you, you will need to find different applications before you install SP2, or secure your system in a different way.
The upshot is that Real operating systems and applications are not affected by this.
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
Oh I do got my windows game machine but that is windows 2003 (it ain't xp wich is why it is better).
No SP2 for that either then again it is firewalled with a proper firewall and only runs games. Nothing else.
Intresting eh? Considering MS own figures on XP takeup this is not all that rare. Many many people are still on w2k or 98. Until recently for home use their was no reason to upgrade. I think only Star Wars Battlefront claimed to require XP.
Oh and for those who want to know, 2003 ran all but one game (vietcong purple haze) allthough some have problems during install because 2003 is not regonized as a valid target OS. Edit the msi files and it works fine.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
SP2 seems to be a "faults enlarger" software.
it seems that if you had a tiny problem before the installation it will be a major one after.
In my case, I've installed it on a fairly new and "clean" system (with mostly audio software installed) and i have no problems with it. Still using a 3rd party FW and the "security center" service is turned off, but overall, no probs here.
Well, we learned a few months ago that SP2 has done a few things right, but still has some key flaws: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/09/02/winxpsp2_s ecurity_review/
Today's article, while informative about a few features, lacks any meat when it comes to whats wrong with SP2.
i fix a *lot* of machines for people, and if you get a spyware-ridden box, clean up as best you can with adaware and spybot search and destroy and then whack SP2 over the top. out of about 20 boxes, it's fixed all of them so far...
I'll second that, device manager showing working hardware, however no applications can make use of sound playback.
This worked fine before SP2.
Two thirds?
Security center popup lots of warnings, and thus gives you the feel you are safe if you have antivirus and updates and firewall. But users still have to understand that if they open an .exe/.scr file from mail this is unsafe.
It does not detect my (kerio 2.15) firewall. (and running 2 firewalls makes the system less secure than running 1!). Was this so hard?
It did not detect my norton antivirus.
What updates? I want uptime, not updates! The new settings for updates rebooted my computer once without me at the steering wheel. (bad, very bad!)
So first thing to do is disable the security center.
sp2 blocked my internet banking software and i had to dig deep in the settings of internet explorer to enable it. (No, firefox is not an option here.)
However recompiling the OS to be more secure against buffer overflows seems to have had an positive effect on the security of the latest updates where XP sp2 was "not affected".
SP2 success is medium cause users have different skills.
SP2 saved a lot of regular family members who are not deep into computers from keeping track of e.g. security issues. SP2 added some more wizards to the interface too regarding wireless networking.
For the more hardcore users, SP2 just ate up more diskspace and brought more annoying balloons to the systray.
On one PC that I use, SP2 worked fine and enabled access to it via a VNC server. On another, getting SP2 to allow VNC was a complete nightmare, despite disabling firewall, installing another firewall, trying many different VNC variants, disabling multiple concurrent logins, and so on. In the end I reverted to SP1, but I'm still not sure exactly what made VNC start working again. VNC was working perfectly on my mother's Windows NT previously, so it wasn't ISP firewalling.
Has anyone else had problems or success with VNC on SP2? Without VNC it's virtually useless. Most other remote control apps, even commercial trials, failed to work as well.
use the corporate tool to either disable windows update, or better pull patches from your own patch server. use the qchain utility to automate patching. script installs of patches and run in the logon script, removing any unneccessary reboots. consider the use of an app like symantec personal firewall.
I pressed F8, selected the menu item, "Disable automatic restart on system failure", which let me see a blue screen with a rather generic message saying:
STOP: c000021a {Fatal System Error} The Windows SubSystem system process terminated unexpectedly with a status of 0xc0000005 (0x7ffe0297 0x0015fab8). The system has been shut down.
I disabled Date Execution Prevention (DEP) by editing boot.ini with emacs under Knoppix and added /NoExecute=AlwaysOff This had no visible
effect.
This link smugly claims to have a solution if I fork out $10 US on the VISA card.
After a multitude of reboots and selecting Debugging and Safe mode, found that it was getting stuck at Mup.sys. That, presumably, is a critical component of the Muppet system :-).
In the recovery console, I used the command:
disable mup
but this did not change the behaviour in any useful way that I could see.
I also disabled and reenabled many drivers loaded before Mup.sys. No visible effect.
Selecting "Last Known Good Configuration (your most recent settings that worked)" had no visible effect; the machine still rebooted after about 5 seconds.
Googling led to many blind alleys, but I am still unable to boot the machine to XP, except with the recovery console from the installation CD.
One very long exchange (related to Mup.sys, but not really SP2), ends with this exchange:
I am unable to see the "all is happy" and "Cool" part of this "solution".I am sure that there must be some well-known solution (besides reinstall). I'd be grateful for any suggestions.
The machine still runs Fedora Core 1, Windows 98 okay. Windows XP worked okay before SP2.
...that other people apply it to.
what does this tell you?
I had similar problems. I installed SP2 and after that the machine just refused to boot. Just before the XP-logo is supposed to show the screen just went blank and nothing else happened. Annoying as hell. Since I had the orgiginal XP-CD I tried the "repair" utility but no matter what I tried the machine just wouldn't boot. I even tried installing the whole thing over the old installation but still nothing. Fortunatly I had two HD's in the machine and since Linux never fail me it was no biggie booting into Linux and getting the files I wanted.
:-/
.haeger
A complete reinstall of XP was required to get the damn thing to work. If I hadn't been required to run IE to access some work related things I wouldn't have installed it again.
Oh, and now I won't forget to backup all files every now and then.
You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. -- Harlan Ellison
It also shows MS took some good precationary steps with it, as some recent vulnerbalities that have surfaced doesn't apply to Windows XP SP2. Can't really say much else about it, no crashes, no bugs, no annoyances besides a bit more agressive Windows Update, but I suppose that's necessary when stupid users don't get it. :-P
I use Kerio's firewall instead of Microsoft's (which should really have controls for outgoing traffic) and Firefox instead of IE so these are unused and can't really comment about them.
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
since installing SP2 is that Windows Media Player (version 10) won't run at all. I've read everything and tried everything that I could find (from MS and others), but nothing helps.
I don't consider it to be much of a loss since there are better players out there.
By the way, there's a bad gotcha in the Internet/Subnet/Custom selection. The Subnet setting appears to not be your LAN address range. Rather than using the IP address of the LAN NIC, it uses the DHCP assigned address for the PPP connection. Anyone on your ISP who falls within the 255.255.255.0 IP mask will have access. To properly configure it, you have to use the custom setting and your actual LAN IPs. (Which explains all the 445, 137, etc port attempts that I'm always peppered with from other local people.)
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
I dont know what the problem is, but SP2 is notorius for causing slow down on some systems, especially laptops. I've searching on the web for a solution without luck.
I suspect its the network stack, since most applications run OK when there is no networking, but when networking (or internet) is enabled the systems slow down to a halt.
Until such problem problem is solved, I recommend against installing SP2
Didn`t make much debate. Heard someone talk about it once, but it seems like it don`t work in Linux?
My verdict? Isn`t this a small update?
There isn't a way to block outgoing access, as it is an incoming only firewall. Good catch :)
I never said it could do outgoing, and I did say that there are better alternatives out there. Don't get me wrong, I know the firewall in SP2 is limited, but I also know that the information the parent poster provided was completely inaccurate. MeErely wanted to clear up a few things.
And yes, you are entirley correct. The custom section does have that minor exploit, but since the SP2 is targetted moreso with home users 255.255.255.0 would only be their brother/father's/sisters/dog's computer on the same network as them, and thus only someone on the same home network could have unlimited access with default FW configurations. Of course, if I'm wrong please correct me. Also, if a buisness or anyone other than a typical home user network wanted to focus on security, then let's hope their tech knows enough to have a hardware firewall/router and not depend upon software alternatives.
"We're breaking out the ramen noodles. . . "
"Really? Is it someone's birthday?"
Installed it on my 2 computers at home, no problems and no indication. Since I already have firewalls, the sp2 one was turned off the first thing.
At work we have had 2 problems on home computers, had a few others but that was because they already were running a firewall and left the SP2 on one, disable that it started working. The first one could not get links to work anymore using outlook express and internet explorer(no firefox comments). The other was a problem with a power outage in the middle of the install, which required some work to remove and then reinstall.
Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
...this should be done as a last resort. usually just before you're preparing to nuke the box and start again. just making the point that it often *does* fix stuff, although as you say there's no subsitute for backing up and doin it properly.
I've used SP2 on my game/internet machine for a while. First thing i did was disable the firewall and Anti-virus notices (it wouldn't see symantec antivir) and disable automatic updates. I didn't have spyware or virus problems before, don't have them now. Using kerio for firewall, outlook 2003 for mail (no problem with virus or anything at all) and firefox and maxthon for browsing. I have pretty much the same thing on a machine running SP1 that's online 24/7 and i don't really notice any difference between SP1 and SP2 except more critical updates are available for SP1 usually.
Sample this!
pagefile.sys is in c:\, not in c:\windows\
Playing poker with a joker and some Uno cards
The QEP with A64 does make initial tweaking a pita, but then again i spose AIM could code their software to not trip out QEP/NX.
Alcohol 120% an old version i tried to install wasn't having it, i guess i'll have to leech a newer copy.
otherwise a-okay works great.
I installed SP2 and had absolutely no problems. It's easy to bash MS and chant the open source mantra, but XP works well for me, and SP2 didn't give me any problems at all. Maybe I'm the minority here. (Ya think?)
I have a HTPC that I have tried to install SP2 on three times, the last time being last night, and each time it has hosed my system. After the second time calling 1-888-SP2-Help they told me to order the CD, then start the machinge in safe mode to do the install. That's what I did last night, and guess what, it still freezes after reboot.
I have seen 1 worse example: Norton system works has an option "Anti worm protection". When searching what this things does it says it blocks worms at the entry point.
It fails to mention that this is a (simple) firewall that will block other incoming traffic as an unexpected bonus. Even for an experienced user this is hard to trouble shoot since you think that THERE IS NO FIREWALL.
at least SP2 screams firewall all over the place.
I have a good one, after updating a suit of PC's to service Pack 2 (XP), I now can no longer install office 2000, as it asks for a service pack CD.... well done microsoft. Lets hope the service packed includes more stolen code from sourceforge....
> Never assume a security update can solve already existing errors within the operating system. SP2 is not to blame here, refusal to solve the problems before upgrading the system is on your side.
Well, SP2 is also a service pack, which generally points at also including fixes.
If the problem is the result of a bug in Windows (which is definitely not the only option, but one of the more likely options) then installing fixes is the only way to solve that problem, and the past decade has tought people that usually when they have problems and call support for it, the first thing they'll be told to do is install the latest updates, so people have been pre-conditioned to try this option first.
If this is intended to be installed by the average Windows XP end-user also, then it is a huge mistake to count on people being able to diagnose the cause of the problem they have and then judge if SP2 might be a solution.
If SP2 not only doesn't fix the problem, but actually messes up the install in cases where Windows XP has been damaged by spayware or such, then it would have been an extremely good idea to have the SP2 installer do an integrity check on the system before installing, and produce a warning or error on such a condition before installing. Its not like a malware infected Windows machine is exceptional or such.
I was configuring Windows Firewall for exactly the small home LAN configuration that you mention. The Subnet setting is inherently insecure, especially with file/printer sharing. (Unless the fixed address for my LAN NIC has it confused?) As for techs knowing better, well, we can always hope, right? :^P
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
Justin.
You're only jealous cos the little penguins are talking to me.
Well, with all of the dubious horror stories being posted, I wanted to say that I put SP2 on 6 machines, and it worked seamlessly on all of them. Thrilled with the firewall, and the security thing even knows when my fairly obscure virus program (freeav.com) is a day out of date. I'm very impressed with XP SP2.
I don't respond to AC's.
MicroSoft Wheel XP Service Pack 2 technical note:
"Previously, Microsoft Wheel has come pre-configured in a circular shape, which only has a small area of contact with the road. MS Wheel SP2 sets the default configuration to square, creating a greater road contact area which improves braking and prevents unwanted rolling due to malicious external attacks, or 'pushing'. This update also addresses an issue with MicroSoft HubCap, where resources could be unintentionally purged at speeds exceeding 5mph.
The future version of MS Wheel, codename 'Airhorn', will be triangular to increase road contact area again and further improve safety, and reduce the possibility of successful 'pushing'."
SP2 installed just fine, however the automatic firewall caused a few issues...until it was shut down. Now it works just fine.
We had problems with email, chat software, (trillian/icq) and of course VNC.
What problems? no internet connectivity. Besides, the computer is on dialup...not too worried about being a zombie.
Nobody ever mentions this (well, nobody has a tablet PC), but I have worked with a number of models of tablet PC, and EVERY SINGLE ONE of them suffers from the move to SP2 (and the new tablet input system). '
In every case, Tabtip.exe (the text input program) is slower and takes up much more RAM. And it has to be killed and restarted constantly to stop it from locking up. Tablet text input without a keyboard is a nightmare!
Yeah, the handwriting recognition is better, but mostly I stick to SP1 now.
Experts exchange put the whole text of their answers in the meta of the page so that it comes up in searches.
Just use view->page source and you are away!
So let me get this straight... Microsoft's ueber-update to improve Windows security works great, as long as you install it on a machine that was already secure enough not to have malware/spyware on it?
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
You really should try this Windows XP Service Pack[goat.cx] instead.
Well, I've installed it on four machines now (my one at home and three at work), and I haven't had any problems with it. All four machines came up and worked as expected.
About the only change I noticed was that the Security Center was yelling at me on my home machine for not having virus protection, a firewall, and not having automatic updates installed. So I disabled those alerts. (I have my reasons for not using any of that on my home machine - the biggest one being that it's behind an actual firewall that blocks all incoming connections.)
Since I don't use IE and instead use Firefox on all four machines, I haven't noticed any real change with IE yet. About the only thing I noticed was that it apparently doesn't run JavaScript on local HTML files without prompting first, which is kind of weird. Oh, and it warns you before running programs you've downloaded off the Internet, even if you don't run them through the Download dialog.
So, ultimately: no problems, yet, but no real improvements that I've noticed. Granted, most of the improvements were supposed to be added security, so it's not like I'd magically notice my box was more secure. They just kind of run like they've always run.
You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
They'll support it as long as megacorps are refusing to upgrade their desktops to SP2 because of all the instability problems. I work for one, and we're all under strict orders not to download the update until it's been properly checked out by our IT guys. Go on, tell me you haven't heard that from millions of others as well. :-)
It's just like dropping support for old versions of Windows itself: MS would love to, but since they've borked the update process and their major customers aren't riding with them, they can't do so without seriously damaging their business.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
Regardless of how effective some of the features are, Microsoft is labeling SP2 as a security-related bundled patch. Out of their Top 10 Reasons to Install XP, six are clearly mentioned as being there to improve security.
IIRC, wasn't SP2 first mentioned when their new Trustworthy Computing initiative was announced?
I've installed SP2 on a bunch of systems and had no functionality problems I've been able to attribute to SP2.
However, it still doesn't eliminate people from getting themselves full of spyware. I rebuilt my neighbor's system with SP2. I reinstalled and updated their AV, left on the firewall and tightened up the IE policies to no avail.
Two weeks later, their machine was so full of spyware it was almost unusable, and it wasn't apparent that they had downloaded anything, either. I'm suspecting that their son, who's a big "Texas Hold 'Em" player, started hitting search-engine matches to "Poker" and installed every ActiveX control offered, but there's no proof.
I should have added Mozilla or Firefox, but it's an old Celeron box and the slipstreamed SP2 install took too much of my time as it was; hanging around for one more install was another block of time I didn't have.
I work for the IT Security department of a relatively large university with 1000s of computers running mostly W2K and XP.
:)
We told people to wait a while initially on SP2. But after a month or so we started deploying.
It has been very good for us. Only about 1% of users have problems and they are relatively minor - usually printing problems.
So I say security-wise, thumbs up - at least till the first SP2 killer worm shows up - and it will.
I decided to install Linux on my box Windows box and leave Windows XP at SP1 in a partition unable to connect to the outside world. That's worked pretty well for me so far.
SP2 has only caused problems for several other people I know. For some reason, it introduced massive instability into 3 of our laptops(1 Compaq Presario R3240 and 2 Dells). My roomate's computer kept crashing after about 10 minutes of WoW. It has only crashed twice since he removed SP2. In fact, I don't think I know anyone that has SP2, even though local network policy is that you need SP2...
In other words, SP2 seems to have some stability problems. Anyone else have that problem?
"73% of quotes on the Internet are made up" -Ben Franklin
I installed SP2 on my reasonably fast (Athlon 2600/512MB Ram) PC and found it was dramatically slower. Startup times for applications like MS Office were particularly bad. One basic powerpoint with 20 slides took a minute and a half to open and show thumbnails. I removed SP2 and the same ppt only took five seconds to open. I don't like running my system without up-to-date patches, but I won't accept that kind of performance hit.
SP2 crashes about twice a day on my AMD64 3200 / 1GB Ram / 120Gb SATA machine. SP1 crashed about once a day. almost always the same device driver error. I wish Windows supported cutting edge hardware better, but XP is pretty old now and is only 32bit. Gentoo and SuSE run fine, no crashes.
I always tidy up first - Ad-aware especially - especially make sure AV and firewall software is on the latest version, so that they and SP2 can coexist happily.
A good summary can be found here.
On Linux. On my Xbox.
I can no longer use my scanner and I had to change a nic card, but otherwise it's OK
Some people are like slinkys. They're useless, but it puts a smile on your face to push them down the stairs.
XP sp2 has seemed about the same as XP sp1 as far as preformance and such. I'v been running it since one of the early betas. Aside frome these two things, I cant tell a lot of differences between it and sp1
The firewall seems easy to configure, but spotty with its effectiveness. Iv has experiences with playing a game online, and then after closing the game im greeted with the xp firewall offering to 'keep blocking' the program. This doesn't particulary bother me though, as i have a hardware firewall.
I have had one serious issue with it. often when I go into a folder with several (20+) movie files in it, explorer hangs. After a minute or so, i get a "Dr. Watson has crashed, would you like to send an error report?" If you don't remember, Dr. Watson isn't suposed to crash. It's supposed to come up when other programs crash.
Nathan Friedly
[Insert joke about "experienced" users not using a Microsoft OS in the first place. :P]
The slightly improved IE security, the IE popup blocking, the firewall, and the execute-disable stuff are probably pretty nice for new users. If I were building a machine for a casual user SP2 would be great and I wouldn't let them leave without it.
I wound up disabling the firewall, though, because it really killed my LAN transfer speeds. The IE stuff doesn't help me since I dumped that crappy web browser a long time ago for Firefox. And my CPU (AthlonXP) doesn't support the execute-disable feature.
While the firewall's nice, and several orders of magnitude better than leaving a "naked" Windows install exposed to the Internet... I don't know. I still don't trust it. I'd feel real weird hooking a box up to the 'net without some kind of hardware router/firewall that at least does NAT and isn't forwarding any ports by default.
OtakuBooty.com: Smart, funny, sexy nerds.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Installed SP2 on 4 of the PCs at home (2 which dual boot to Linux). On 3 machines which are mainly used for gaming, surfing, messaging, and word processing, there appears to be no problem.
On another PC which is being used for development (.NET Framework installed, IIS Web Server, etc.) and with a bunch of peripherals installed (Scanner with SCSI interface, USB Printer, CD/DVD Rewriter), SP2 is causing the PC to BSOD intermittently (maybe once every 1 or 2 weeks).
I am now thinking doing a clean install of XP with SP2 on this machine then re-installing everything... a real pain in the rear. So I guess your mileage will vary with SP2.
It's not just tough for you. I am the kind of geek that tweaks out his computer from the BIOS to the registry settings, and I thought my computer was in amazing shape and ran really fast, with surround sound, of course. I was a happy camper. Then, one day I installed the final release of SP2 using the administrative redistributable package. Upon completing the installation and rebooting, I found myself with the exact same problem you're having. I could ajust my sound mixers, and programs detected my sound card, but Windows had magically "unregistered" all my sound codecs, and uninstalling/re-installing did no help. I finally decided to uninstall SP2, and my sound still didn't work.
I ended up re-installing Windows and sticking with SP1a. My computer works perfectly again, runs very fast (faster than with SP2) and I once again can bathe in surround sound.
By the way, I use a Shuttle SN41G2 motherboard with an NVidia graphics card and a Creative Audigy Gamer for sound. I know that other people using the Audigy/SP2 have had issues like this, but despite all my searching, I was unable to find a solution. I think either Microsoft needs to release a patch, or Creative need to update their drivers (as far as I can tell, they have not released a SP2 compadible build...).
Two freaks, no foes. It takes absolutely nothing to make some people angry.
Working at a tech shop, I get to work with it day in and day out.
:)
:)
Security center is a bitch. It complains about things when there is no problem, and does not complain when there is.
SP2 causes wireless devices to not be able to scan for wireless networks, and sometimes to connect but not send any packets. Uninstalling and reinstalling the driver for the wireless NIC in device manager fixes the problem sometimes, not others.
Firewall blocks things it shouldn't and allows things it shouldn't. It asks questions when it doesn't matter and fails to do anything when it does. At least it blocks 135-138... sometimes.
The biggest problem from a tech shop point of view is the fact that it offers an uninstall function, but every single time an uninstall has been attempted, the rollback has been disastrous. The system usually has weird quirks (one in particular had file properties boxes that would extend far off the display; it would probably be a few hundred feet if you measures it physically). Other weird quirks include missing DLLs, random reboots and/or BSODs, text and/or controls disappearing from dialogs and windows.... I could go on but it's too early in the morning right now.
It's not worth it unless the computer is a new build. If it's a new build, some of the problems like Security Center and firewall sucking still exist... but as long as you know about it...
No problems here with SP2. did a fresh install from cd with SP2 included. I think the main problems from SP2 are related to people who update via windows update and that some running programs disturb the installation proces.
Did anyone else notice that they disabled windows updates unless the automatic updates service was enabled and set up to download by default?
Note: WinXP sp2 adds the option "Disable automatic restart on system failure" on the F8 menu. So press F8 as the computer is booting, and you should see it listed on the menu along with Safe Mode.
On Windows 2000 and XP SP1 the following works:
0) Boot with a BartPE CD
1) Run RegeditPE from a floppy disk or CD....
2) If prompted to load remote user profiles for editing, you can choose "No."
3) Go to [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Cont
4) Change the value of the DWORD AutoReboot from 1 to 0.
5) Close RegeditPE, and restart the computer.
SP2 is best when installed on a virgin copy of XP or directly as an SP2 enhanced I86 package- the point is install it before any other applications to ensure less (better chance of, anyway) application issues.
While the security features are indeeed enhanced, some of them are simple less functionality.
Point being- don't count on your users to be able to handle the firewall setup and possible not the maintenance.
If I were in charge of rolling this out, I would still rely on a thrid party firewall for host protction (in addition to the normal network security) and virus protection.
I think most admins will find that several "features" of SP2 may need to be tweaked or turned off to allow compatability in certain environments.
I am not a MS basher, but I am also a fan of several other O/S's. I think SP2 is a good attempt, albeit a little late and yet still too premature for release, to fix a few of the trouble spots on the worlds most popular and most targeted OS.
As with ANY O/S, if you are relying stricly on the O/S to provide you with protection, you are only asking for trouble. Heck, PIX firewalls were advertised as "Secure out of the box", but I would never leave one at a client site that way.
No matter what O/S you run, and hopefully you try several, make sure you have a good firewall and A/V package installed and understand how to maintain it.
Repant. Thy end is sheer.
"The jury has been good, but mixed." As has the metaphor.
After some initial trepidation caused by the kneejerk prejudicially anti-SP2 sentiments of some of my "technologically-inclined" (actually, just arrogant and self-aggrandising) colleagues, I installed SP2, and have had no problems with it whatsoever. There's nothing wrong with it that wasn't also wrong with SP1 or the original release. 5 stars for pointlessness, but it's not evil.
-- "Broadly speaking, the short words are the best, and the old words best of all."
I'm running Debian you insensitive clod!
#!/
Knowing a number of people who write software at MS, I checked using Ethereal for trojans. There was OpWin trojan I got from IE. Got it from a gateway I connected to almost 2 years ago and it's still sending out messages every 10 seconds. The gateway address was not there so it keeps sending.
I did the whole hour long SP2 update and OpWin is still there, trying to find a 2 year old gateway address.
We should all sue MS for wasting our time. xp is just a big piece of sh*t.
I have an A30 IBM using xp and it can't even restore audio after sleeping. It is not the hardware, Linux works great on it.
xp needs over 300 megs of ram just to start up the OS, that should give you a hint of why high school kids are sued by a trillion dollar company for 'illegal' activity.
If you worked for me you would been fired long ago.
MS has sucked $100 billion out of the economy and keeps on sucking your lifeblood and mine.
And I need anti-virus software after paying MS?
That's BS. Fix your crappy OS before it really creates a worldwide problem.
All the spam I get in email is from zombie MS machines.
Never had this problem with OSX or Linux.
This is the moment I switched to OSX.
I am on an AMD64 machine running WinXP 32 bit version(Beta 64 is too unstable). After SP2 my machine would automatically reboot after i login about 90% of the time. The only way i could get in was with Failsafe mode. I tried removing all programs from my startup still the same problem was there. Removing SP2 solved the problem
My Aurora : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o91ZsGwJYyg
FB : https://www.facebook.com/TanveersPhotography
Well, my leadtek WinFast TV2000 XP Expert tv capture card's software used to freeze my computer when I frequently turned it off and on. After SP2 it works flawlessly. As for other programs and limitations on TCP/IP connections... I hate it!
I've upgraded 4 desktop computers and a laptop computer to SP2 and have had zero problems. I waited quite a while before patching after reading all the bad things people wrote about it. My kid's computer was the guinea pig after a couple days on there I did my systems.
SP2 does not get along with the latest versions of Cygwin, at least if you're using Cygwin's SSH. It all still works if you have a slightly older version of Cygwin.
More info on my blog.
I checked a couple weeks ago and the problem still wasn't fixed, but maybe it is now?
SP2 broke a good majority of my previously installed software; oddly the standard suggested solution of re-installing the 3rd party software does seem to mostly fix things. Which suggests to me the install process its self is somehow screwing up the 3rd party software installation/configurations rather than the SP2 itself.
Well for one small detail that takes about 20 hours away from my month when updates come out The automatic update. Now you can download install these updates whenever your want without being an administrator. And it eliminated the need for a SMS server and elimintaed the clunky SUS server. Hmmm nothing? That is one small point. I could go on. Being the first to post on this I must say Haste Makes Waste! I will have to mention the pop-up blocker and the improved firewall. There is more should I continue? Nah I've made my point.
Everyone keeps bashing SP2 so much, I decided I'd even this up a bit.
Although I'm not an NT admin, I did install SP2 in a couple of places, and here's my take:
1. Added a simple, probbably far-from-what-we-here-on-/.-would-call-decent but TURNED-ON-BY-DEFAULT firewall to joe-clueless-user. IMHO, this will severely reduce virus infections on the vast amount of joe-user machines that are not properly mainained with good up-to-date malware-protection.
Yes, a minority of 'joe-average's will have stuff break due to this, but the majority will benefit.
2. Enabled windows update by default. Again, will severely increase resilience of a vast number of joe-poorly-mainained-user boxen.
3. Tags files that were downloaded from the internet as such, and gives a proper warning when attempting to execute it. Another simple idea that will decrease suffering of people from malware.
4. [...Finally] added a decent popup blocker.
5. IP configuration GUI improvements. After 9 years of renewing a DHCP lease from the command line, they finally put a "right-click-on-tray-icon--->>REPAIR" option that gets a new one. right-click-->STATUS was also complemented with a new tab that... SHOWS MY IP ADDRESS. BRILLIANT!
Sheesh, and it only took them 9 years. Buy hey, better late than never, I say.
6. After 2 years with flaky, unstable, bugged, alpha, crappy user UNfriendly blowatware bluetooth drivers based on the WIDCOMM "my-dog-can-write-better-software" SDK, Microsoft finally threw in their long awaited BT stack. And boy, was it a sight for sore eyes. It supports all my BT plugs out-of-the-box, Its simple and intuitive to use, and works like charm. BT network driver works great, as does syncing with PDA and a symbian phone. No more 30-minute battles with the Nokia suite, the BT tray icon that stopped responding and a guess-list of 12 serial port drivers to sync my phone with Outlook.
I tip my hat to MS for issuing an *excelent* BT driver suite, albeit 2 years overdue.
And yes, they crippled raw packet API on the TCP/IP stack, so nmap had to write a little workaround.
So go ahead and bash MS all you like, but as far as both myself and quite a clueless family members I inevitably get to support are concerned, SP2 did good. If fewer people have to spend their time, money and nerves treating virus-related computer problems, all the better.
Kudos Microsoft, and thats coming from a hardcore UNIX geek and fulltime Linux/Solaris admin.
Flame away kids.
-
If you asking for a verdict, that implies a jury - and jury's imply impartial. Slashdot impartial about a Windows service pack? Yeah, okay....I've got this bridge for sale, anybody interested?
I've got a bunch of friends with VNC so I can fix their computer troubles from my home. After waiting a bit to see if SP2 had some major problems, I made them upgrade to it.
It worked perfectly for nearly all of them. But for one of my friend, SP2 killed VNC. I tried to install every fucking VNC prog on this computer, but no luck. There is no ISP firewall problem either I checked that.
I don't have the slightest idea of why this PC and only this PC refused VNC.
Like parent, I would appreciate any hint on how to restore VNC capability to this SP2 machine.
So far a nice collection of security loopholes have been closed up. Of course it isn't perfect, but it is an improvement. Stack smashing is a bit harder to do, the firewall is greatly improved, and there are lots of warnings to give the worlds Luddite community a clue. It still has a long way to go to match OpenBSD or Solaris 10, but it's good enough if configured properly, and you ditch MS Office.
Patching a current installation of XP seems to be problematic, but doing a fresh install with a slipstreamed SP2 copy of XP works very well.
Thumbs up and some props to MS... wait... shit...
As a Visual C++ developer, I'm disappointed that Service Pack2 changed the symbol format for the system DLLs and Visual C++ 6 debugger can't understand them. .NET 2003.
On the other hand, a system without the service pack doesn't survive more than 10 minutes when connected to the internet.
This makes the Visual C++ 6 environment worthless when it comes to power debugging low-level problems (like multithreaded deadlocks), the only solution is to upgrade to Visual C++
So SP2 is a *required* update, which *forces* me (as a developer) to purchase VS.NET 2k3.
Smart move by microsoft, but frustrating for me. I'm sure they could have included both debug formats for compatibility, but they didn't...
I installed SP2 on my brother-in-law's XP Home system a while back and I haven't heard any complaints from him. He's not what you'd call computer savvy, but he hasn't mentioned anything failing on him. Actually, I did have to reinstall the whole system (and put SP2 back on it), but that was because of some nasty spyware that just didn't want to go away. Not really the fault (probably) of SP2.
Having a smoking section in a public restaurant is like having a peeing section in a public swimming pool.
Whatever about security flaws and errors introduced in SP2, it accommplpished one thing very well. It makes users more security conscious
The XP SP2 security center is the greatest thing to come out of Redmond since the start button. it forces users, through alerts to be aware of the vunerabilities of their own system. if they are without Antivirus, Firewall or automatic update, it tells them, and keeps telling them, until they fix the problem. This alone has saved me countless hours of explaining why security is important to people who just don't give a shit. For some bizarre reason, lecture after lecture from a techie on security will result in a user who still installs spyware ridden file sharers and smileys, browses on IE and won't install a simple antivirus, and who thinks your being paranoid. And yet a simple taskbar bubble proclaiming 'Your computer may be at risk' grabs and holds their attendion, to the extent that they actually do secure their PC(In as much as a windows PC can be secured).
Security Center Rocks!
Time for a Gnome Version methinks.
P.S.
BITS is also a lifesaver! Now at least when little annie stops downloading MP3's for 5 minutes, updates will actually be downloaded.
P.P.S.
Remember to set the install time for the updates when you fix computers for friends and family. I find 0600 is good. Everyone is in bed, so no panic results when the installer dialog pops up. Of course the computer must be on 24/7 , but just tell them that turning it on and off too much will break it.
May the Maths Be with you!
SP2 slowed down the crap out of my 1.8-M Celeron laptop. Takes a LONG time to boot now. (I was actually so frustrated with windows altogether that I just sold that laptop and got an iBook!)
That SP2 is stable, reliable, and adds quite a bit of security. It has proven itself to be immune to several previously unknown exploits and viruses.
The 3 or 4 FUDsters on this site that are ranting about it have mostly only deployed it to one or two home computers, running god knows what old, unsupported software and hardware, and having god knows how many pre-exisiting problems.
Until you have deployed SP2 to 10,000+ clients of all different hardware/software configs, you don't know what you're talking about.
i have a hardware firewall (A modem with buildin NAT to be more accurate) AND i do use a software firewall (kerio 2.15). XP sp2 failed to detect them both (even as the modem has a windows logo on it). This gives me a clue that you are supposed to run the windows firewall according to windows.
I do not believe everything MS tells me to.
I still haven't figured out how to my firewalling for ipv6 (kerio does nt support it, and windows firewall is all or nothing)
I run an FTP server and things went all wacky when I (and my users) upgraded to SP2. Before you start assuming it was a fire wall issue let me state that it was NOT. Command line ftp worked fine so I didn't notice anything wrong but other people complained they couldn't get in. It took me a while to find out that in Internet Explorer there is a setting that was changed from off to on that basically breaks GUI ftp using IE. Just annoying as it drove me crazy for days trying to figure out if it was a client or server problem.
While I pity those who installed SP2 and it ruined their Windows install, it is a leap forward. People are more concious of security, which is good. Wireless support for SP2 is frankly excellent. I understand people's misgivings about it, because it's not perfect, but it's better.
It makes IE smarter, and makes wireless "support" worthy of the word.
Please stop stalking me, bro.
For us, it broke the Windows activation. Thirty days after upgrading to SP2 on about fifty Dells, Microsoft started disabling our computers. You couldn't login as a normal use and an admin user would go straight to the activation screen. I litterally spent about a week on hold with Microsoft to get new activation #'s from them for each new system. They also wouldn't allow you to do more than one system per call so you had to start the entire process over at each computer.
Microsoft's actions really hurt our company. Having the computers not working for up to a week was ridiculous. They should have allowed their customers to login and uninstall SP2 rather than just screwing us by disabling our computers.
Thanks Bill, gee Thanks, I really wanted that processor upgrade anyway...
A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing. Emo Philips
Speaking as someone who does broadband ISP tech support, we all refer to it as "Super Crap 2." The firewall additions are great but it's overly efficient at killing your tcp/ip connection or converting it to "limited or no connection." In Microsoft's defense I will say that they may have released yet another bug-prone lemon but at least they gave us a better bandage in the system restore.
My IT Manager actually called Microsoft about this issue. You add a computer to the domain and the Windows Installer would break. After 5 hours on the phone they found out it was a group policy causing this and did not charge him for there support. Because thay stated that it was not documented. Other than some older programs not working and the MILLIONS of questions from users, it's been ok.
Some really good things about SP2 and security that people like my mother would benefit from:
1) Application warnings
In a similar way to some adware programs (such as WinPatrol), SP2 warns when new applications are trying to add themselves to your startup and gives quite a good explanation as to what is going on.
It also warns if applications are trying to contact the internet like some of those personal firewall things.
2) Internet security warnings
You know those dialogs "This is a really complex technical thing about running ActiveX controls and you know nothing about them, hey, so just click Yes or press Enter because that's what we've decided to default this dialog to". Well those are now quite different. The Action button to say yes is actually disabled for about 5 seconds or so to encourage reading of the dialog (and its better worded) and they also don't default to evil actions.
A few other things I like:
* They've hidden all of those pesky updates from Add/Remove programs, you can turn them on with a checkbox. My Add/Remove was becoming ridiculously long with all the automatic update patches showing up as installed applications.
* Much improved Wireless networking capabilities. Made it user friendly enough for lusers to understand and configure without impacting on advanced capabilities.
I haven't had any major problems as some others seem to have had (and neither have the 100 odd people in my company who have also updated), so I can't comment on that. All I can say is that I've updated certain "stuff" on my linux boxes before that has broken other things, so lets not get overly critical about one or two teething problems.
As much as I hate to admit this, I think that MS have actually done quite a good job with SP2.
I go to a large university and every one I know who runs SP2 has the web (not AIM, though) mess up after 20 minutes and they have to either renew their IP or reboot. It's awful.
http://www.qdi.nl/download/KZ7T.htm
:(
BIOS modification:
1. Fix error of BootEasy
2. Fix ACPI error in Windows XP
(I think I need this one but im afraid....)
BIOS modification:
1. Add QDI Windows XP Recovery CD string.
2. Fixed: No modification of CPU frequency with phaselink clock chip.
3. Update "Athlon XP" string to CPU. (Only the KinetiZ 7E mainboard model can support Athlon XP!)
4. Support LogoEasy( CBLOGO3.0/Qflash).
5. Fixed:Install WindowsXP fail using Geforce2-MX.
Goddamn QDI, my XP upgrade would bluescreen on install until a bios flash.
Still XP is better than ME which was on before, although it blue screens (STOP) like crazy!
Pretty simple actually.
.
Got a real firewall. Don't use IE or Outlook Express
I don't see the need to update especially if you know you will likely have to buy new versions of software that work just fine now!
I moved pretty quickly from SP1 to SP2 because I recently got a system that had Windows XP Home preinstalled. It worked pretty smoothly, although I went to http://www.blackviper.com/WinXP/servicecfg.htm to mess around with and shut down services that were unneeded. However, I ended up going back to SP2 settings because VPN stopped working. I would say the app that took the biggest hit was IE. For example, load a page that you know contains popups and the load time is quite a bit longer. IE was so noticeably different for me that I checked out Firefox and am so happy I did!
This sig donated to Pater. Long live
http://www.ihate.org.uk/Microsoft
:
http://www.ihate.org.uk/Windows
This site is a wiki so you can add your hate of MS + Windows (and anything else i suppose)
Also see
http://www.ihate.org.uk/linux
I work for a major web-hosting company. I have been seeing several cases a day with the following two main problems:
1 - Mercantec PGP issues where SP2 changes the placement of quotes, changing strings for example:
"c:\blah\blah\foo.exe" "%1" becomes:
"c:\blah\blah\foo.exe "%1""
2 - Blocked ports.
Try walking a non-tech through changing a file-type association like that, or explaining that the reason they are receiving an error that states that their 'mail server is down or unavailable' is actually because an automatic update has suddenly changed some settings that they know nothing about.
The hardest thing is that the port-blocking seems to be random. I have not seen a pattern.
The file-association problem seems consistent.
I'm fairly indifferent. I have Debian, OpenBSD,and FreeBSD boxes for 'working' and utilities (music, general surfing, web-design), and an XP box for gaming, although I find myself console gaming more often.
Also, I found out yesterday that the Indeo codec is no longer included in Windows XP! All new installations of XP SP1 or higher don't include it, and the Windows version of the codec costs $15 from Indeo's website. I had to play my video on my laptop with OS X (OS 9 Quicktime in Classic), because OS 9 came with an Indeo codec, when previously, Indeo was pretty much the Windows codec to use (before WMV anyways)
SP2 is the first verion of Windows to support Blue Tooth.. and it is a GREAT improvement over using vendor supplied drivers and utilities.
Oh yeah.. the WiFi support and interface is MUCH bettter too.
Not in 100% of cases, but at the very least they shouldn't make those systems any worse. By the arguments people are giving in reply to my previous post, no security patch can ever install reliably, yet strangely, many have until this point.
For a start, Windows XP is supposed to have filesystem protection in place to prevent permanent changes to key Windows system files. This was one of the much-hyped benefits of upgrading, if you recall. If this has been circumvented, Microsoft must at least know the correct checksums etc. for all the key system files in their unmodified state.
At the very least, following the "do no harm" policy, each included patch in the SP could check whether the previous versions of the files it's changing were unmodified, and issue a warning rather than messing around trying to install over bad starting data in that case. That alone would probably prevent a lot of the problems.
Taking that to its logical conclusion, it would be hard to compromise a system without affecting any key files at all. Why can't the update include checksum information for all the key system files, check them all at the start of installation, and abort with a suitable warning rather than proceeding if the system has been compromised? It's not as though it's a small, modem-friendly download and they're worried about file sizes.
Come on guys, this isn't rocket science, it's kindergarten. Failing to read page one of the manual is no excuse for delivering an update to such essential software that takes out something like 30% of your installed base according to early adopters. I could understand the odd slip up, some particularly clever malware or a human error among hundreds of fixes, but we're talking about thousands and thousands of installations being wrecked here.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
Really... The only noticable thing that SP2 does is add the whole "Security Center" thing, but for anyone who already runs a firewall it's pretty useless. Downloading Zone Alarm and Antivir Guard (or AVG, etc, what have you) does as a good a job of keeping the nasties out, and it's a much smaller download. Granted you can have them mail you SP2, but I for one don't welcome my Microsoft offline mailbox spamming overlords...
This has helped my text searches.
But why didn't MS use the filename field as well ?
I.e.
FileName: *.cpp
Find in File: myFunction
Surely this would limit the scope enough!
I had/have problems with my volume/mixer controls with apps like windows media player. I disabled all the additional security features they added though. I'm sure I would have seen more headaches had I not.
Some computers it's helped a lot..
.. nasty.
.. SP2 took 3 hours to install and made the machine slower than molasses.
Some computers
My P2-366 laptop (192mb ram, 6g drive) running XP-SP1 is not too bad
I'm staying away from it for most of my network centric clients..
= Grow a brain...
SP2 was the final nail in the coffin.
I decided it was about time i got rid of this desease ridden software and stop trying to pump it full of drugs to prolong its life, so i performed some euthanasia and my computer was reborn with Linux, and its never been happier.
I had to uninstall XP SP2 on both my machines. After installation, the NEC CD and DVD drives on the secondary IDE channels of both machines "dumbed down" to using PIO mode instead of DMA. This killed my disc read and write speeds on both machines. Under no circumstances could I get XP to utilize DMA on these drives, even though DMA worked fine pre-SP2 and after uninstalling SP2.
The HDs on the primary IDE channels had no problem with DMA... only the ATAPI drives on the secondary IDE channels.
MS support confirmed it was an issue, and I've seen other poeple experience similar problems on various forums, but I never heard of a workaround or fix.
well, it's incompatability with popular graphics apps has stalled my hardware upgrades since they'll require software upgrades also. a real hinderance to our progress here.
SP2 is a difficult upgrade. Once it's done, it's good.
One upgraded marvelously. A lousy laptop that used to crash doesn't crash anymore under windows xp. This was a huge benefit for me. The other elements have been fine to.
Another failed miserably and required a complete re-install. With the re-install (including SP2), it works fine.
That's why at the end of the day the verdict is good for SP2 once it's installed but the install process was pretty risky).
The Wireless Zero Configuration service was far from Zero effort on my laptop. If the zero applied to useful functionality then it was 100% effective. It doesn't support my NetGear 802.11a PC-Card. It does support the on-board 802.11b. If it's enabled then WEP doesn't work on the NetGear (even if the NetGear config software is running). If it's disabled then the on-board wireless NIC doesn't work. In the end I had to disable the service and use the NetGear XP driver and config S/W then go get Windows 2000 drivers and config S/W for the on-board NIC so that I could run both at the same time. I burned hours "fixing" SP2. I saw the posts about Joe-average and agree but if it breaks big-time when it doesn't work then that's nasty for Joe-average and irritating for me. Joe-average would never have figured out why their shiny new wireless network stopped working.
Not sure what the big deal is... I installed it, rebooted, disabled the Windows firewall in Security Center and all is golden. But since I use Firefox and Novell Client Firewall, I am probably avoiding most of the issues that have caused others problems.
I haven't allowed anything from Symantec onto any of my or friends' systems since I discovered their "Crash Guard" program was causing my Mac to crash regularly. And, near as I could tell, most of the disk problems were caused by their background disk integrity program. (As in, after removing it and getting my money back, the system didn't crash and I didn't get disk integrity problems any more.)
So I sure wouldn't trust their Windows programs to not wedge into parts of the system where they shouldn't and trash the service pack install.
In the K12 environment, we are particularly caught up with this ping-pong match. Most of our software vendors don't support SP2, and claim it can nullify our service agreements. This has been going on for months. We run some curriculum packages that run over the web, and the pop-up blockers stop them cold. To put on SP2 means to go back and undo most of the defaults.
One interesting note is that Windows Movie Maker, always a separate install in the past, is now integrated into SP2 - you cannot install the new Movie Maker without installing SP2, but installing SP2 can inadvertently disable several of our weird reading, writing and math programs already installed on the computer.
On the home front - we have two IBM thinkpads, different years/models - one took SP2 fine, the other BSODed causing us to go back to Last Known Good, adding a few more service packs, then trying again.
Working as a residential assistant in halls, my experience has been that everyone has turned up to uni after the summer and half the students have had someone install SP2 on their computers... that's fine... only that SP2 is so damn secure that it wont allow a connection to our wireless network. "why wont it work, why wont it work!!?????" I say grr to SP2, mostly just cus it made me work harder.
Do you know the funniest thing about DEP? It's been in you pc since the 386. Im protected mode you can set memory as executable,readable or both.
.. at least 12 years old, and M$ has only just found out if can do DEP.
Now the 386 is... well scratched head
This reminds me of a post about window (3 i think), and it basicly says that someone at microsoft decovered protected mode and hacked out the windows kernel (3.1/95/98/me), to use this extra magical memory and allow task switching, unfortunatly he didn't notice that you can set the executeable flag on memory that should be data or stack and prevent buffer overruns from executing code.
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
If SP2 was that thing I tried on my computer many months ago, even if beta, here's my opinion. Worst thing I ever done. Aside from taking like 10 minutes to boot, I'm still having computer problems after removing it.
I installed it at home and we've rolled it out at work, so far no major problems. At work it's on about 300 systems, which is almost all the XP systems in the department.
Thus far we had 1 install problem. A user elected to install it on his laptop himself, and when he did that, the system failed to boot to a login prompt, it would just hang. My boss rolled it back, tried the install himself and it worked fine. No one is sure what happened since, of course, the user claims he "did just what he was told to do".
Firewall seems to work well. Most users never even notice. In the labs it has to have a port unblocked to work with the print charging software (it pops up and asks if it can). It has caused some reported trouble with the campus wireless VPN. We can't nail down the issue, but seems to be related to using older versions of the client. People with new versions haven't reported any problems. All on non-departmental computers so we haven't investigated it much.
App compatibility has been fine. Nero whines that it doesn't like SP2, and is made happy with an update, so far it's the only one that's noticed. Even the pickey engineering apps (Matlab, Texas, Opnet, Orcad, ADS, HFSS, and Visualworks) are all happy with it, none required changes to work from what they had in SP1.
As for speed, I don't really notice any change. I'm not sure it's any faster as claimed, but it's certianly not any slower. I'd have to benchmark it to say for sure, but it seems to run the same over all.
The whiny security centre is nice. Annyoed me initally, till I figured out how to turn it off (it's off by default in the domain). However it has lead to some of our problem users actually inquiring about virus software (which the university has a site license of) where they ignored repeated e-mail pleas and deparmental memos and turning on automatic updates.
All in all, I'm quite satisfied. It seems to have done a good job enhancing the security of systems by default, and hasn't caused any trouble doing it. We've rolled it in to the install media we use and it's now installed by default on all new systems.
I don't know what this company does with their softwares, but ALL of them have this nice ability to fuck up everything for no reason.
Appauling
One problem with SP2 that has not been mentioned yet is the fact that in all of MS's infinite wisdom, they broke the definition of a loopback address. According to SP2, a loopback address is defined as ONLY 127.0.0.1, not the entire 127/8 address range. If you use certain types of remote access, such as client-based or clientless VPN methods, it will break the user's access. Although MS issued a hotfix for the problem several months later, this is aother demonstration of their lack of pre-release testing or software QA... --->Rob
it sucks ass and is a waste of perfectly good bandwidth to download. the new IE is more annoying than ever before cuz the popup blocker sucks and doesn't work correctly and the new security doesn't do anything cuz as soon as you go to a website you get adware and spyware and popups all the time.
I've been having USB 2.0 device issues.
Immediately post install, no USB 2.0 device would work (Windows "suggests" plugging the device into a high speed USB port.) Frustrating because I *ONLY* have high speed USB 2.0 ports.
Re-install of chipset, then I still get the message occasionally, but the devices do work AT USB 1.1 speeds.
Before SP2, USB 2.0 worked at USB 2.0 speeds on my computer. It still works at USB 2.0 speeds with Suse Linux 9.2 Pro, though!
I hate WinXP SP2... As soon as I installed it, all my firewire devices (two external, big hard drives and my dear iPod) stopped functioning. I immediately uninstalled it and after reinstalling the firewire drivers, it all went back to normal. I'm never touching that piece of shit until I see an official statement on their webpage that their firewire support is fixed. My verdict: DON'T install it if you have ANY firewire devices.
SP2 has some important security enhancements. That said, it's not secure by default. To improve the security quite a bit, take a look here;
Securing Windows XP
The guide has lots of practical advice and is almost complete (I could add 2-3 more pages). I'd consider it a minimum base configuration for all Windows XP systems out there -- even helps quite a bit with NT-style pre-XP versions of Windows.
(If you don't need it, consider passing it along to those who do.)
Add a good external audit tool such as Nessus to the list, and XP becomes pretty darn secure.
Keep in mind that unless you automate these steps for larger installations, each machine will take about 2 hours to secure and bring up what is common under different flavors of *nix. Consider that by not doing these steps you could get exploited and spend 2+ hours cleaning up and recovering -- if at all possible!
A firewall can not protect you from yourself. Turn off what you do not need. Do not use the firewall to do your work.
The "verdict" is that sp2 is much needed help for the masses of users who not even do not know what a firewall is, they could care less. automatic patches are turned on as well. Another major improvement for joe clueless. For the rest of us, sp2 is just an annoyance.
Since i'm known as Nick Burns the com[uter guy around here, i came in and fixed the comp. I had to boot up w/ the boot disc. (my backup boot disc *cough* *cough*). He lost his admin password when i went to the recovery console so i rebooted using ntpassword change and deleted the password (kinda too easy if you ask me, thanks bill!)
rebooted again, went into the xpsp2uninstall directory ran a batch file, manually uninstalled from the console, (bc when windoze rebooted after installing the sp2 i got a bluescreen when win loaded, yay!) so i said to him fuck sp2, just keep sp1. rebooted, windoze finally loaded but slowly, i then uninstalled sp2 the normal way, rebooted again, then i unticked the automagic install stuff so sp2 wont install until sp2a comes out i reckon.
i left with £35 and i was off for the day. thanks m$, easy money for me!
Also, it would be really helpful if someone explained the order you install drivers/service packs. Is it fresh install --> drivers that came with mobo --> service pack or fresh install --> service pack --> drivers that came with mobo? Or does it just come down to "which ever has the latest date."
Thanks in advance,
-truth
I had a steady B+ in my AI class until I failed the Turing test...
I recently installed XP SP2 on my best XP box. During the installation it crashed, requiring reinstallation of windows. I booted off knoppix to recover the .pst file that Outlook uses to store email (this is overwritten during reinstallation). The second time, the installation went fine.
I slipstreamed SP2 into XP. It loads from scratch without issue.
And SP2 loads just fine to current installs if you are free of issues. Spyware/Malware/Viruses/Etc. are ALWAYS found on every machine I work on. I boot from a WinPE CD and manually remove that which I know is going to cause problems and then uninstall all crapped-up software. I even run Scandisk & Defrag prior to ensure a smooth transition.
I have yet to have an unexplained issue.
I've upgraded dozens of machines this way. And it keeps me in beer money!
Kenny P.
Visualize Whirled P.'s
"Now it turns out these APIs did not withstand that test."
Oh, you must mean just about every C standard library call, that by the way, originated in the Unix world right?
We now know just how safe all those string libraries are.
+1
Sure. I'd love to post my opinion of SP2. That is, if I could download it. For some reason it always gives me a "failed to install" error message. :/
So I just use my personal firewall + anti-virus + AdAware/Spybot and Firefox.
Warning: Could be fatal if taken seriously
I bought my parents a 2400 a little more than a year or so ago, and things ran fine on it, until told them to install SP2. Now, for some reason, it's slow as hell; every little mouse click takes a very noticable pause. At first I thought it was malware, but we ran Adaware on things and nothing's helped. I think I've covered everything I can:
I've installed a decent video card
It has 768MB of RAM in it
It's firewalled (hardware router/firewall)
It has zonealarm just in case
It has Norton Antivirus
No programs installed in the last 9 months
It's been defragged
The only conclusion I have is that it's SP2. The Dimension was a little slow before, but once SP2 was installed, it went from a consistent 'kind-of' slow to a now progressively slower and slower system. Grr! I'll have to do windows reinstall next time I visit. Probably stick to SP1
0- Eamonman Proud member of DNRC
SP2 actually works well and is fairly simple in its implementation of what is at the heart of most incompatibilities: the firewall.
I installed it on our domain, here, and found, that, yes, computers did slow down somewhat. More importantly, I spent a good deal of time unblocking ports and programs. Luckily, I was able to do this in the group policay settings, which took their sweet time propagating, but worked when they did.
What MS did wrong was continue with their philosophy of user as guinea pig. Instead of releasing proper notes on the best way to implement the service pack, or, better yet, using all of that lead time to build in some easy settings for widely used programs (or an API for programs to do the same through the GP), MS makes the user survey the whole network for problems after the fact. (Sound familiar?)
Once it is configured, though, SP2 works well and is a logical piece of infrstructure and a useful one, especially for home users.
One thing to say about SP2 - if I click a link, if means I want to download the file. If I double click an executable, it means I want to run it. I do not need to be asked.
http://shit.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/11/16/0 349257
I'm at a university, and lately we've been seeing a rather mysterious problem:
"Limited or No Connectivity"
This error message comes up rarely, but when it does, it's always on wireless cards, it's frequently on new machines, and it's always a mystery. These computers can see the wireless networks just fine, they just don't pay attention.
It seems as though the computer is just ignoring what it's told: We see it send a DHCPREQUEST, we see the server send a DHCPOFFER, but Windows just ignores it.
Various bits of voodoo can coax the card into listening, and therefore working, at least until the next reboot. Forcing the card to reload its drivers, usually by changing a Device setting, sometimes causes it to work. Stopping services, such as the AOL Connectivity Service, sometimes causes it to work. Doing a 'netsh' reset or clicking the "Repair" button almost never causes it to work.
These mysterious computers have no spyware on them, usually because they're brand new. They also have no extra LSPs installed. Manually assigning an address obviously eliminates the DHCP problem, but does not allow it to work on the network.
Odd.
char sig[120] = "\0"
My PHB has some old financial software that i had running on his XP machine that ceased running when I installed the SP2. when I called MS support they asked me how I even got it running before the patch. they seemed to think that my setting up an old box running 98 next to the XP machine was a good solution and called it fixed.
backwards compatibility my ass
"He's a real midnight golfer"
I've had no significant problems with SP2 itself either. But I did have two external but related issues.
SP2 came out right before my daughter ran off for college with her brand-new laptop in tow, and I wanted to make sure she had SP2 on it, and I also wanted to make sure it wouldn't cause her or me grief. I wouldn't be surprised if SP2's timing proved especially bad for schools.
So I did my first SP2 upgrade on my VM copy of XP (VMware running on a Dell workstation) in a rush and beat it up as much as I could before recommending it to my daughter. SP2 itself gave me no problems, but two important apps did: ZoneAlarm Pro and McAfee VirusScan AsAP. Both fall into the Security Center's "installed but status unknown" pit, meaning that things are fine but the SS nags that they aren't.
ZoneAlarm should have been OK, but Zone Labs so badly botched their SP2-aware 5.x release that I had stayed back with the non-SP2-aware 4.5 version. There are some installation issues with the older version and SP2 that were covered in their forums.
McAfee, on the other hand, seems to be taking its sweet time updating VirusScan AsAP to be SP2-aware. (BTW, I prefer this product over the retail one because I have more than one system, and it nags my family with admin-level messages and focus-stealing far less.)
After my own upgrade, my daughter's upgrade was straightforward with no problems at college so far.
For those two apps, I fault the vendors, not SP2, since both have had plenty of beta time and plenty of time since release to get in gear, but didn't.
No trouble since then. All applications working perfect. I replaced the builtin firewall with Kerio personal firewall. Norton AV 2004 was instaled, LiveUpdate fetched some updates for it, and now it as well as Kerio are detected by the Windows Security Center.
I never have to worry about spyware/ads/popups since getting Ad Muncher, so it makes no difference whether I use barebones IE, Firefox with Adblock, or the SP@ IE with its pop up and activex blocking doodads. None of these things even get a chance to work, since AdMuncher blows everything out of the way before it can even reach these apps! (divs, spans,tables, iframes, scripts-u name it-can be blocked) :) )
Upshot is-if you want to play safe-don't blindly install it over your existing system, go for a clean new install and it should work without hassles. It's worth the trouble, since several flaws and even a few new exploits have been fixed by it. (Of course, newer holes will popup sure as the sun shines, but thats' another story
"..One hosts to look them up, one DNS to find them, and in the darkness BIND them."
Yeah, a few things broke, but I consider that A Good Thing.
My Windows system:
XP SP2
Hardware firewall with unused inbound and outbound ports blocked.
3rd party antivirus, firewall, and anti-spyware.
Web-based email with antivirus and antispam.
Non-IE browser for everything but Windows Update.
All in all, it's quite stable. The HW firewall, web email, and 3rd-party web browsers keep out almost all the nasties, and the PC's security tools block or deactivate the rest. The outbound abused-port block on the NAT is a "last resort" in case I get a nasty that knows how to defeat my PC's security tools.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
I'd normally never touch the stuff - but the Mother in Law needed someone to do the SP2 install - and she offered money.
First reboot the machine would barely get to the boot splash screen before freezing. After a few hours of torturous anxiety (never expected any major problems!) I managed to pin the problem down (Windows, of course) and get it booted.
Didn't have the parent posts luxury of Safe Boot working -- and I find out now MS knew about it... and typically - blames the manufacturer.
I quote:
CAUSE
This issue may occur if the following conditions are true:
Worked fine ever since - and a lot less "can you fix my computer" phone calls from the Mother in Law with SP2 so far. Now all I get is my Father in Law - "I think she broke my computer" - as he now has the rejected old PIII/550 that inspired the new machine purchase - it has an upgrade of 95/98 and other issues.
Blow by blow is over here
Mangee: Father to Lliam
After I installed SP2 on my laptop, my Outlook Express was reset. I used to store all of my email in local folders on Outlook. I did find the archives in the Program Files folder on my comp but Outlook did not allow me to re-load my old identity. It asks for some specific file name extension which does not exist in that folder. Maybe that was a little too much detail, but I'm curious if anyone else had the same problem... I was really pissed off by the fact that Windows XP is supposed to be user-friendly-no-brainer kind of a thing, but a non-geek user would have no idea how to retrieve the lost email.
please change me. - sig
Norton Anti-Virus *is* a driver (a file-system filter driver, to be exact). It is absolutely a legitimate source of blue-screen (NT Bugcheck) crashes because if the filter driver misbehaves, it clobbers all of kernel memory. Bad. I have debugged several NAV Bugcheck crashes myself.
As far as crashing in UT2004 goes, what does the minidump tell you? I'm willing to bet that it's your display driver crashing after attempting to execute something on the stack in kernel mode. The "auto-triage" scripts run by the Microsoft Error Reporting tool should be able to pinpoint the offending driver.
XPSp2 is *designed* to BugCheck (crash with a blue screen) when pages marked with NX are attempted to execute in kernel mode. It's the only safe thing to do. In user mode, the apps are simply terminated.
= a much smaller service pack
all i know is the people who constantly vented their anger about how long sp2 was taking to be released were even more pissed off wne their machine didn't come back up after the install/reboot... other than patching some vaulnerabilities that were being exploited by worms most people using alternatives to ie didn't need the 100's of irrelevant patches in the sp
Get your torrents...
Other than that SP2 is ok - when I dont use the VPN, that is. No BSODs for the last couple of months which is how long ago I installed it. The PC is a home PC.
>Many many people are still on w2k or 98.
Tell me about it. My main PC runs XP (behind a hardware firewall/router) but mainly because it's more stable than 98SE and because iTunes requires either 2000 or XP.
My other x86 PCs run either Win98SE (Thinkpad 760XL, Epia 5000) or MS-DOS (Epia 9000 mini arcade cabinet, Celeron 1.4GHz big arcade cabinet). They don't need anything more.
I really wish there was iTunes for Win98SE (even if DRM's songs couldn't work, iTunes is still a great ripping/cataloging/playing/music networking tool).
I've noticed post SP2 that my ThinkPad has developed a small BSOD issue at boot time, requiring me to try Pervious Known Good configs. As far as I know, my ThinkPad didn't get new SW or drivers...so why would it not want to reboot correctly.
Personally, I an leary of SP2. I'm more annoyed I've got a update it now zealous hubby who blindly trusts the Windows Updater...ugh...
I don't blindly trust just about any auto-updater, I'm more of the hang back a bit, see what others stuble on first. I still think my ThinkPad would be better off w/o SP2.
When in danger or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.
I think SP2 was supposed to disallow over 10 attempts for connections at the same time, and this was supposed to cause problems on P2P programs.
I read it on slashdot at some point. I don't see anyone writing about it this time. Has anyone had any experience with P2P programs on SP2? Problems??
...stick with SP1. All SP2 adds is headaches. The "bug fixes" and "patches" (ya, those alleged ones that really add more bugs and holes?) aren't worthwhile if your NATed and/or firewalled, which I expect most of the Slashdot crowd is. (At home at least) As long as you don't have idiots on your network openning "awesome_pic.jpg.exe" you'll be fine. (And if your a Slashdotter, I expect you've already setup Norton to scan all incomming email, right? That or you've converted everyone to Linux. ;-) )
...Had this been an actual emergency, we would have fled in terror, and you would not have been informed.
I read that the BSOD happens if your computer is infected with adware when you install SP2.
My Journal.
I use linux only, I have six machines. I run my own business programming. Windows is awful as a programming environment. It is okay as a client machine, never as a server.
My $0.02AUD.
My mother-in-law, on the other hand, is a nurse, and to her the computer is just a mysterious box on her desk that lets her send email and surf the internet. She decided to follow the advice her computer gave her, and she installed SP2 on her < 1 yr old Dell. She lost all internet connectivity and spent over 6 hours on the phone talking to tech support for her internet provider and Microsoft. I feel pretty confident that she will no longer follow her computer's update advice, which will probably be a bad thing in the long run. Plus, she has no idea what it was that tech support ultimately had her do, so next time she wants something installed or if she ever has another problem, she's starting from an unknown state - I'll have no idea if the next problem is a result of whatever 6 hours of tech support did, or if it's whatever new thing I'm trying to install for her. At this point, I'm worried because I don't know if they made her disable the virus protection and/or her software firewall. I know SP2 turns one on by default, but I don't know how good it is. What's the current feeling on the built in firewall?
So far my conclusion is that SP2 is great if you are an expert, or if you're lucky enough to have it all go smoothly. But it can really hose up a casual user when it doesn't install cleanly -- and even recent PCs from fairly large / well known vendors are at risk for a bad install.
Work hasn't taken the plunge yet, but they have a massive number of users and many different waves of hardware purchases and software sets that they have to support, so I'm not terribly surprised. It will be interesting to see how long it takes them. The good news is that whenever they break your PC and can't fix it on the spot, they roll out a (usually newer) one on a cart and swap it out. Might mean I'll get a faster box!
We apologize for the preceding message. All those responsible have been sacked.
sounds interesting... so what does it do? give you little sounds when you are probed? like rain drops? first a few, then a downpour when you get hit a lot?
is that it is inbound-only.
s ecurity_review r s_windows 2 4 130&product=windowsxpsp2
The folks that are having problems with SP2 are the same ones for whom the Windows "firewall" is inadequate.
Their boxes are already infected with spyware.
That causes problems with SP2 (and they are already phoning home from malware that is already in place).
As always, get a firewall that has egress blocking.
On Joe Average's one-boxen system that means Sygate Personal Firewall (now the prefered app)
or an old version of ZoneAlarm (the new ones add bloat without adding significant functionality).
http://www.oldversion.com--Caution:The scroll bars at this site lock up my Gecko browser.
Re: SP2
The best results are obtained by a clean install of XP, install SP2, and follow Thomas C. Greene's configuration advice.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/09/02/winxpsp2_
[Our previous column] "was NOT a practical guide to hardening a Windows system".
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/09/14/reg_reade
XP Home this time:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/09/17/xphome_sp
Programs that have problems with SP2:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=88
For reference: Black Viper's SP1 page
http://www.blackviper.com/WinXP/servicecfg.htm%20
(Dontcha just love the way MICROS~1 allows spaces in file names?)
The 2nd-best results can be had by running multiple malware killers, installing SP2, and following Greene.
gewg_
It's at the URL in my header. If nothing else, it's a nice collection of wav files. Source available once I clean it up. Just ZoneAlarm support so far.
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
Yeah, yeah, yeah...
I heard the same thing about Windows ME and the first version of Windows 98 - they were really great too (* yes, this statement is sarcasm *).
Microsoft can release an absolute dog and the public will eat it like sliced bread.
A few years ago I saw an Internet poll that said Windows ME had 87% of users satisified. Ask people today - and guess what??? Most of them bag it to death - because it's no longer the latest and greatest (* cough, cough - it never was *).
Enough said about XP.
IMHO, Win2k is their best recent platform - and prior to that, most probably Windows 98 SE. Both are reliable, stable and perform reasonably well. Sorry - but XP is another dog - and SP2 has not helped one iota.
Anonymous Coward
PS These opinions are only intended for those that can think outside of the box
Of the various test machines we have have put Service Pack 2 on we have had mixed results. All of the desktop machines we have tested had at least one or more repeatable "issues". None of which we found to be completely unfixable (with the exception of a nasty WiFi problem with Broadcom chipsets). The reason we are not deploying SP2 right now is what happens when you install it on a laptop. No less that 2/3rds of the laptop test models took massive performance hits. At the moment we haven't been able to locate the exact cause and as such are simply shelfing SP2 for the time being. Anyone else had the notebook performance problem with SP2?
I installed SP2 on two machines at home. My personal machine (which I also use for business purposes) and my dad's brand spanking new Athlon64 system. In both cases, it broke so many applications and caused so many problems that I had to reinstall both systems. I won't be installing it on any other systems. I've also heard of others having issues with SP2 with pretty run-of-the-mill applications as well.
considering my slow dial-up connection at home, the appropriate sound for my traffic is probably low, slow deep-voiced whale-song. ;-)
Is how I got most of my MS licenses. I liberate a machine by installing linux then use the license for my game needs. I do believe that MS doesn't like that but for now this perfectly legal under dutch laws.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Having them leave their computer on all the time is wasteful, and is likely to cost them $50 or more per year just because you felt like telling them they might break it.
Conservation is the best way to reduce energy costs. And every bit helps.
"There isn't a way to block outgoing access, as it is an incoming only firewall."
I don't think this is the case. Whenever a new app tries to connect you get the "Allow this connection?" dialog. If you say yes it is added to the exceptions list. If you decline, it is unable to connect.
This was the case when I installed Steam last night anyway.
This is timely. We have a laptop computer at home that has been essentially unusable ever since SP2 was installed. Internet Explorer takes 37 seconds to start on a 1GHz system with 256MB RAM and 97% system idle time, unable to run Windows Update, network drops out periodically, etc. Compaq tech support says that they've seen a lot of this, and they're recommending that we uninstall SP2.
It stinks! It stinks! It stinks!
You are correct in that program access is contained. However, the primary difference, and of course I could be wrong, is that it is only blocking program name access to the internet rather than allowing outgoing port blocking. For instance, you could allow the AIM program to connect to the internet, but still not be able to control whether or not the port used by AIM can be blocked on outgoing.
If I'm wrong on this, someone please let us all know. As I'm only 95% sure of this and tired
"We're breaking out the ramen noodles. . . "
"Really? Is it someone's birthday?"
Creative is known for their bad live drivers.
In fact they are almost legendary for it.
I see. I think you are right about that as far as port access goes.
Once you grant an app access it can use any port it needs to as far as I know.
None! I switched to Linux on the desktop.
(Well I still run a couple of windoze 2000 thingies inside a VMware machine, but let's just forget about that dirty little secret.)
http://sourceforge.net/projects/html2fpdf
This pdf module does no longer run in INTERNET EXPLORER after service pack 2 is installed.. i did tests on all other windows installs with all service packs prior to service pack 2. I think something they did to internet explorer broke this software. However, firefox runs the class just fine. That has been my solution to this nasty service pack2 situation.
I have been searching the Net for a solution since I installed SP2 when it is released. But I have yet find an answer...
Here is the problem. I have been getting random blue screen since I installed SP2. The blue screen did not specify a particular dll casuing the blue screen. From MS website, it only explain it *should* be a device driver issue.
Error code 1000000a, parameter1 c0000000, parameter2 00000002, parameter3 00000000, parameter4 804f1623.
For more information, see Help and Support Center at http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.
I was using an Audigy, so I thought it might be the sound card. So, I take out the sound card and still got the same BSOD. After searching on the Net, Error code 1000000a might be caused by bad memory. So, I ran memtest86, no problem found. Fine, I replace a new Antec 430w powersupply, same BSOD.
One thing I will need to note though, playing games would not cause the BSOD. I only get BSOD when I am working on the desktop, BT using BitComet, or when Diskeeper runs in background.
Here is computer spec:
AMD MP 2000+ x 2
512mb Corsair register ram X 2
Tyan MPX 2466-4N
Adaptec 29160 SCSI card
Winfast Geforce 5900
Segate 72g 10000rpm SCSI harddisk
Audigy sound card
On board LAN card.
I don't know bout you guys but my wireless reliability was much improved on my IBM A31, T41, and T42. With XP it was slow to aquire, and often lost signal, with SP2 anytime I'm reasonably in range of an AP I'm guaranteed a quick and reliable connection.
From my experince so far, sp2 is a wounderful update. I have seen people on hear calling sp2 a majic bullet to solve current problems, it is not, if you have a system ful of virueses, spyware, and other crappy programs, sp2 will most certinly crash when you install it. But if you have a system in good working condition there should be no problems.
Installing SP2 on top of my X40's XP was a Bad Idea.
Anyway, I'll restore the original XP when I partition it for Linux.
-j
Actually the dialog says: "Windows Firewall has blocked this program from accepting connections from the Internet".
Note that it's "accepting", not "initiating".
This is why your browser can make HTTP connections even though it's not on the exceptions list.
You are wrong Sir, but you made me check myself.
The dialog actually says:
"Do you want to keep blocking this program?"
Then it lists the name of the application and the publisher if there is one.
There are three buttons, Keep Blocking, Unblock and Ask Me Later. Note that none of them are 'default' buttons. So hitting Enter does nothing. The user needs to make an active choice.
Using the tcpview tool from SysInternals I can see that it has not yet made a connection.
As another poster pointed out though, once you give the app access it can use any port it likes.
I assume any browser can use port 80 though as I don't recall Firefox or Maxthon being an issue. I don't think that is a big deal though because everyone would have port 80 on the exception list I think.