for shits sake did you even take a small look at the size of a 200 watt solar panel, the size of your roof, and the number of panels that would fit? I could fit 30KW- 80KW (depending on efficiency) of solar panels just on my house roof alone, which would give about 200 - 500 kwh per day! and my house isn't all that big. then I could also stick a small wind generator in the back yard for another 10-40 kwh a day if I wanted (and could afford and was allowed to). you really bought the bullshit didnt you.
lets see: TOTAL annual energy usage of the US: 100 billion giga joules . average yearly power per square meter (US, from wikipedia) : 6.1 GJ.
m^2 needed: ~16 billion.
solar panels range from 10% to 45% efficiency, so raise this to perhaps 90 billion m^2 and you have a square 300 km's across. Now either I'm completely mistaken or you are talking absolute rubbish because I swear I thought the US was slightly bigger than 300 KM (~200 miles) across..
(*) seriously, are you an oil company shill or something? where the frack did you get your "faKts" from?
THANK YOU! finally someone realises we DONT have a physical energy problem, we have a POLITICAL one.
When you look into the cost of wind, solar, electric cars (that ARE viable and BETTER than petrol ones, when done right), you start to realise that for the price of the ABSOLUTE FUCKING MADNESS that is called war (esp war on iraq) and the ongoing costs of the war machine, we could completely switch away from fossil (and nuclear) fuels and go wind/solar.
DONT tell me its not possible due to variability in the power source, THIS IS BULLSHIT, just build more than we need so even in low wind/sun there is enough power, and also pay for some damn energy storage (eg water towers or hydrogen production, whatever; solutions exist, and are not a problem when you start throwing the billions/trillions that are WASTED on the millitary at the problem.). DOnt tell me electric cars arent viable as they take too long to charge: this problem has been SOLVED (look up nano batteries and similar), (and posted on here multiple times I might note) its just not being used (and would have been solved LONG ago if it had any sort of decent money thrown at it (im talking millitary/nuclear funding decent, not the shit leftovers renewables get now)
ah bullshit. America is no longer a place of liberty and democracy. Your "democracy" is a false choice between two candidates from the same hidden party.
Take the bush/kerry option:
Out of three hundred million people, you were given the choice between two cousins, who went to the same school a year (I think) apart, who both where in the same secret society which only has a few members per year, and are both related to the old royal families of england/europe(ie nothing has changed)
. WHAT A LOAD OF SHIT. thats not democracy. Both of them are puppets for the same group with the same goal, both just attack it from different angles so you dont realise what they are doing. On top of that, the vote machines are rigged for that extra elemnent of distraction/control anyway, so your "democracy" is more useless. You claim to be a free country and tout your constitution (which I happen to think is a wonderful piece of work, too bad its no longer used) while (supposedly illegally) kidnapping, torturing, wiretapping, imprisoning indefinately without charges or trial, killing etc etc AND NO ONE RESPONSIBLE GETS PUNISHED FOR IT. Your president is having a good old laugh as he wipes his ass with your constitution and blows his nose on the first amendment.
Im so sick of people making statements like this. (not the posters here, the people writing the article.)
I admit their intentions are good, but to be honest, I dont get it. lets be real. 10% by 2050? stop spending trillions on bogus wars over oil and useless no bid military contracts, divert it to wind, solar and electric car conversions and you would have ~ 500+ gigawatts of average energy right off the bat: do that each year for the time it takes to build the infrastructure involved (5-10 years) and BAM no more non-renewable energy. Am I crazy? Is this idea retarded? Why? because it involves not spending so much killing each other? FUCK YOU!
why do we waste so much money killing each other and why is it considered sane to wage a trillion dollar war on a people who HAVE NOT attacked you but insane to consider diverting a large amount(and I mean most of it) to a purpose to the actual benefit of those who supplied it (taxpayers). Who the frack decided it was sane to spend billions on wars to protect oil but insane to spend the same amount WITHOUT killing or pissing anyone off to replace oil?
OK, I should stop ranting now. Im just goddamn sick of it. War and the budgets involved are insane. Poxy plans to produce 10% of our power by the year 4001 are insane: they are a cop out. Put the date so far in the future it is irrelevant. HOw about this for a target: spend half as much on renewable energy as you do on killing other people and developing weapons to kill other people and pretty soon (10 yrs) you wont NEED to kill people as you wont need to steal their oil anymore.
in other news: This article may be exciting... if we define exciting relative to grass watching (and quite possibly plaigiarism since I saw no credit given to Captain Obvious (tm), who I'm sure was involved in some way)
only if you assume that the universe cannot be arbitrary. This is almost a religious belief in itself. eg: the probability of me exactly existing, via the long chain of (I assume from available evidence) evolutionary events is infinitely small ((*)is it just? how do I know that? apply to original statement). Therefore evolution must have been occuring for infinite time. (rubbish). People assume life is extremely hard to achieve through random processes. I don't.
(*)Given just the section of universe we can see (13 billion ly) I have no trouble with the idea that random collections of atoms could sometimes form a base self replicating structure, and from there I have even less trouble with the idea of one of these sometimes copying itself slightly wrong enough to eventually achieve a decent complexity, "dna equivalent" etc to satisfy my definition of life. (Ive studied genetic algorithms at uni and seen just how powerful (and to be honest, amazing) the process can be.)
Once there is some sort of simple structure that can undergo genetic selection (ie self replicator with a very basic dna equivalent), life is an almost foregone conclusion. Getting this structure seems not so hard given the sheer number of atoms available for random assembly and the small size of some single celled (hell do they even need to have a cell? probably but who knows) organismz
"So let's say that God reveals himself: let's say he does it by union to the creature. So the creature sees with God's eyes and see's God's reality as if he were God. I've just defined baptism . Even mathematics can't beat that for proof."
wow what drugs are you on? give me some.
So let's say that little pink unicorns reveals themselves: let's say they do it by shitting in your bed. So the creature pees with disregard and gobbledygook nincomswallap. I've just defined googleywoogle . Even v1agraSt0cks can't beat that for proof. (in other words, wtf are you talking about, you make up some weird idea with no evidence and barely any sense to it and call it a proof? wtf? wow religious people never fail to amaze me with their stupidity.
there is no anti bush propaganda machine, only truth...
(actually I dont completely believe that. almost EVERYTHING on mainstream news seems to be propaganda from one group or another to me. Its just that where bush is concerned, they dont really have to try very hard)
"Many people happen to disagree and it has never been publicly stated that the war was for oil by anyone in the position to control our actions."
What, you mean, you need the corrupt man to TELL you he is corrupt before he becomes corrupt? you'd make a good judge:)
heroin addict: "no sir, I didn't murder this man just to steal his wallet, I was defending my freedom to buy drugs and his lack of generosity was standing in my way"
you: "good enough for me, let him go"
"It is all unfounded conjecture by people wishing to diminish the creditability of the president"
HAHAHA you think he has credibility? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAhahahahAHHAHAHA mmmmhmhhhahahahahahHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHa tehehehe...
yes. Unfounded conjecture. We did it for the WMD's (hehe theres some unfounded conjecture for ya). Wow you are thick (kinda surprising given the rest of your comment, which shows a decent level of thinking and logic. You sure that you aren't two different posters using one username?)
hey come on, who modded the parent down, its the funniest comment Ive seen all day:) (and relevant, maybe if he played it some more the incident wouldnt have happened....(or it would have been fatal, depending on if it was accidental)
the US invented islamic fundamentalist terrorists (literally, see who funded/trained "al queda" in the early days. You know what you normally call someone who has been funded and trained by someone else? their employee).
The US would not BE a target of terrorism if they weren't hippo-critically sticking their noses into everyone else's business, claiming they are fighting for freedom when every one with a brain can see they are just positioning themselves to best control oil resources/keep oil being sold in USD and serving other self interests.
Since This is my opinion of the current purpose of the US military (twofold, 1: line the pockets of defence contractor/oil investors, who just happen to be well represented amongst the current administration, and 2: maintain US control of as much oil as possible) and this purpose would be removed given the right funding for a) distributed wind power (including personal home generators if possible), B) battery tech research and mass production (especially advanced lithium tech. eg LiS batteries that can store 350+ whr/kg, or Li-air which could achieve storage of 6KWhr/Kg), your defence from "islamic terrorism" DOES affect the cost of your current energy supplies.
caveat: Im a conspiracy nut, those not into conspiracies ignore the following comment:)
first off, I'm undecided on global warming, Im pretty sure its happening, pretty sure we're causing it (but either way, who cares who's to blame, if its a problem, fix it), but papers like this sometimes make me wonder.
from a conspiracy point of view, the following possible, but possibly doubtful scenario has occurred to me:
imagine you pretty much rule the world. Not like a dictator, more like a group of ultra powerful people in the shadows, pulling strings.
Now imagine your goal is complete control, orwell/v for vendetta style, one world government (controlled by you) and maximising your profits from the gigantic banks and corporations you own. (basically a world enslaved to you if possible)
Now imagine we are on the verge/entering into the robotic age where productivity of each person is multiplied by a huge factor over past levels, and that productivity has been constantly rising for hundreds of years. You know that if people get to keep enough of this extra productivity, many will become at least partially satisfied, having a decent house, food, clothing and money for entertainment etc, and start looking to only work part time/taking long interesting holidays/doing things they love rather than things they have to. On the other hand, if they dont keep enough of it, they may start realising somethings up and rise up against you. Basically what Im suggesting is that in this groups opinion there is likely an optimum level of wealth at which people have enough money to be very productive due to the tools etc they can purchase/not rebelling/not living in complete poverty, but not enough to not NEED to be productive, kind of a balance point between abject poverty (with the incurred risk of uprising) and eden, where no one bothers working much as they all have enough anyway.
With this in mind, the question they would have is: how do they control productivity (or even better skim it off the top so the worker doesn't get it) without the average poor slave (as thats what the workers are if this is real) realising whats happening.
One answer: invent a massive problem that means using too much fossil fuel energy (which in general means being too productive) is bad. Now there is a risk involved, because if people actually had brains and a bit of knowledge, they would realise that powering themselves entirely off of wind power is entirely within reach, and would actually bring huge productivity/wealth increases after it had been done due to the almost free energy (Im talking after the initial investment) (think about it. If the cost of the iraq war had gone into wind power, america would have about 1-2KW of electric power for each and every citizen.... not to mention far fewer people pissed off at them.)
So they have to be careful and make sure that the only solutions we are allowed are the ones their own corporations supply and can control(hybrid cars, hydrogen economy requiring massive investments and research, nuclear power, "green" coal (haha what?) etc etc) and none that could get away from them (eg electric cars: if people started driving them, they may be tempted to add on the cost of a small wind generator/a few solar panels onto the purchase cost and remove the energy costs (and more importantly to these assholes, control) entirely....
of course thats not the only way to keep the population poor and working, by illegal forms of taxation that penalise the honest working wealthy while the real rich useless (and crooked) types get around it through loop holes etc (check out the constitution, you might find it has some interesting things to say bout taxation), by the federal reserve rippoff and similar ripoffs in almost every nation world wide (federal reserve is a PRIVATE bank, yet it creates money out of thin air, not backed by anything, and loans it to the people (well other banks anyway) at interest... !!! america pays billions/t
Thatd be fine dr damage, if it weren't for the fact that
A) the people being tortured are often innocent of any "terrorist" activity, as seen in various extraordinary rendition victims that ended up being released months later (but of course not apologised to or compensated for or given justice by punishing those responsible for months of torture)
B) The US has no real chain of command for responsibility purposes anyway. Bush and his cronies dont have "the buck stops here" signs, they have "I didnt do it, blame him, I know nussink" signs. Its not a punish those responsible system so much as a blame the (probably innocent) scapegoat for your mistakes and crimes.
I find it hilarious (in a laugh till you cry morbidly sort of way) that everything americans accuse other "terrorist nations" or "rogue states" of doing, they are doing themselves.
They are basically like a big primary school bully, walking around punching people and stealing their lunch money, all the while crying to the principal that some of the victims tried to fight back.
Now Im not religious, but it seems a decent percentage of the idiotic americans behind such behaviour claim to be, perhaps they should actually read that book they love so much, something about removing a log in your eye?
as far as I know, turbines rate from as small as you want (eg 1w educational kits) all the way up to multi megawatt monsters with 100metre blades!(ie a couple of megawatts PER turbine).
Pricing varies, in the domestic home user segment it seems to be about $1.5 per rated watt, which means it will put out one watt constantly in ok-medium wind. More in stronger wind, less in weaker wind, and for most people I'd say theyd be getting less than the rated power on average unless they live in a fairly windy place (my guess was 1/2 but this is just pulled out my a%$#). Converting to AC is fairly efficient (using an inverter), I think 80-90% is common
At the large scale, they seem to be approaching $1 per watt of AVERAGE power output, in install costs, though I dont think this includes the small but still noticeable maintainance costs. To put this in perspective, the iraq war has cost something like 0.5 trillian dollars. This would buy 500 gigawatts of wind capacity, or 1.5KW per american citizen.... (this is in my mind relevant as I see the iraq war as mostly a war for oil and a war for wars sake.) and a whole lot less pissed off middle eastern people.
9k minimum? jeez, a little basic research before posting a fricken article: go to ebay, type: "wind generator" HEY LOOK, prices start at $300 for 200w ones!!!
basically wind costs about $1.50 per watt rated power at the moment, not sure what that is in actual average power in average wind conditions (whatever they might be...), but it sounds pretty darn cheap to me. My house needs about 1kw average power, so $1500 * (rough guess out of my ass) 2 (rated = 1/2 average power) = 3-4k, my electric bill is over 1k per year, so this will pay itself off in a few years.
add on a decent inverter $1k+, battery storage for a day or so $2k, and I'd be mostly off grid for about 6-7k, payoff time, 5-6 years.
WHO GIVES A FLYING RATS CRACK WHO IT WAS THAT STOLE IT, THE POINT IS IT WAS STOLEN. Im not a democrat, im not a republican. for shit sakes Im not even american (though like most of the world, I am affected by their mistakes blunders and outright stupidity). It doesnt matter what party he represented, IT MATTERS THAT HE RIGGED THE ELECTION. It doesnt matter what party a vote rigging accuser votes for IT MATTERS THAT BUSH RIGGED AN ELECTION TO DEFRAUD THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. Hell, personally, I think both sides are ruled by the same masters (big money corporations and mil.indust.complex)), and the whole election thing is a side issue to distract you all, but if you cant even see that it was stolen, you'll never see the bigger picture.
anyway, I know I cant change anything, just letting off steam.
Slashdot Mirror
EXACTLY. understand this post and understand why this bullshit happens.
debbie does utah
for shits sake did you even take a small look at the size of a 200 watt solar panel, the size of your roof, and the number of panels that would fit? I could fit 30KW- 80KW (depending on efficiency) of solar panels just on my house roof alone, which would give about 200 - 500 kwh per day! and my house isn't all that big. then I could also stick a small wind generator in the back yard for another 10-40 kwh a day if I wanted (and could afford and was allowed to). you really bought the bullshit didnt you.
lets see: TOTAL annual energy usage of the US: 100 billion giga joules . average yearly power per square meter (US, from wikipedia) : 6.1 GJ.
m^2 needed: ~16 billion.
solar panels range from 10% to 45% efficiency, so raise this to perhaps 90 billion m^2 and you have a square 300 km's across. Now either I'm completely mistaken or you are talking absolute rubbish because I swear I thought the US was slightly bigger than 300 KM (~200 miles) across..
(*) seriously, are you an oil company shill or something? where the frack did you get your "faKts" from?
I dont suppose you ever have any wind there? ever thought of sharing with another state that does? WOAH WOAH slow down egg head....
When you look into the cost of wind, solar, electric cars (that ARE viable and BETTER than petrol ones, when done right), you start to realise that for the price of the ABSOLUTE FUCKING MADNESS that is called war (esp war on iraq) and the ongoing costs of the war machine, we could completely switch away from fossil (and nuclear) fuels and go wind/solar.
DONT tell me its not possible due to variability in the power source, THIS IS BULLSHIT, just build more than we need so even in low wind/sun there is enough power, and also pay for some damn energy storage (eg water towers or hydrogen production, whatever; solutions exist, and are not a problem when you start throwing the billions/trillions that are WASTED on the millitary at the problem.). DOnt tell me electric cars arent viable as they take too long to charge: this problem has been SOLVED (look up nano batteries and similar), (and posted on here multiple times I might note) its just not being used (and would have been solved LONG ago if it had any sort of decent money thrown at it (im talking millitary/nuclear funding decent, not the shit leftovers renewables get now)
the rubbish stupid. plastic etc is actually quite energy rich (made from petrol remember)
Take the bush/kerry option:
Out of three hundred million people, you were given the choice between two cousins, who went to the same school a year (I think) apart, who both where in the same secret society which only has a few members per year, and are both related to the old royal families of england/europe(ie nothing has changed)
. WHAT A LOAD OF SHIT. thats not democracy. Both of them are puppets for the same group with the same goal, both just attack it from different angles so you dont realise what they are doing. On top of that, the vote machines are rigged for that extra elemnent of distraction/control anyway, so your "democracy" is more useless. You claim to be a free country and tout your constitution (which I happen to think is a wonderful piece of work, too bad its no longer used) while (supposedly illegally) kidnapping, torturing, wiretapping, imprisoning indefinately without charges or trial, killing etc etc AND NO ONE RESPONSIBLE GETS PUNISHED FOR IT. Your president is having a good old laugh as he wipes his ass with your constitution and blows his nose on the first amendment.
I admit their intentions are good, but to be honest, I dont get it. lets be real. 10% by 2050? stop spending trillions on bogus wars over oil and useless no bid military contracts, divert it to wind, solar and electric car conversions and you would have ~ 500+ gigawatts of average energy right off the bat: do that each year for the time it takes to build the infrastructure involved (5-10 years) and BAM no more non-renewable energy. Am I crazy? Is this idea retarded? Why? because it involves not spending so much killing each other? FUCK YOU!
why do we waste so much money killing each other and why is it considered sane to wage a trillion dollar war on a people who HAVE NOT attacked you but insane to consider diverting a large amount(and I mean most of it) to a purpose to the actual benefit of those who supplied it (taxpayers). Who the frack decided it was sane to spend billions on wars to protect oil but insane to spend the same amount WITHOUT killing or pissing anyone off to replace oil?
OK, I should stop ranting now. Im just goddamn sick of it. War and the budgets involved are insane. Poxy plans to produce 10% of our power by the year 4001 are insane: they are a cop out. Put the date so far in the future it is irrelevant. HOw about this for a target: spend half as much on renewable energy as you do on killing other people and developing weapons to kill other people and pretty soon (10 yrs) you wont NEED to kill people as you wont need to steal their oil anymore.
wow. Explains a LOT!
in other news: This article may be exciting... if we define exciting relative to grass watching (and quite possibly plaigiarism since I saw no credit given to Captain Obvious (tm), who I'm sure was involved in some way)
(*)Given just the section of universe we can see (13 billion ly) I have no trouble with the idea that random collections of atoms could sometimes form a base self replicating structure, and from there I have even less trouble with the idea of one of these sometimes copying itself slightly wrong enough to eventually achieve a decent complexity, "dna equivalent" etc to satisfy my definition of life. (Ive studied genetic algorithms at uni and seen just how powerful (and to be honest, amazing) the process can be.)
Once there is some sort of simple structure that can undergo genetic selection (ie self replicator with a very basic dna equivalent), life is an almost foregone conclusion. Getting this structure seems not so hard given the sheer number of atoms available for random assembly and the small size of some single celled (hell do they even need to have a cell? probably but who knows) organismz
wow what drugs are you on? give me some.
So let's say that little pink unicorns reveals themselves: let's say they do it by shitting in your bed. So the creature pees with disregard and gobbledygook nincomswallap. I've just defined googleywoogle . Even v1agraSt0cks can't beat that for proof. (in other words, wtf are you talking about, you make up some weird idea with no evidence and barely any sense to it and call it a proof? wtf? wow religious people never fail to amaze me with their stupidity.
(actually I dont completely believe that. almost EVERYTHING on mainstream news seems to be propaganda from one group or another to me. Its just that where bush is concerned, they dont really have to try very hard)
What, you mean, you need the corrupt man to TELL you he is corrupt before he becomes corrupt? you'd make a good judge :)
heroin addict: "no sir, I didn't murder this man just to steal his wallet, I was defending my freedom to buy drugs and his lack of generosity was standing in my way"
you: "good enough for me, let him go"
"It is all unfounded conjecture by people wishing to diminish the creditability of the president"
HAHAHA you think he has credibility? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAhahahahAHHAHAHA mmmmhmhhhahahahahahHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHa tehehehe...
yes. Unfounded conjecture. We did it for the WMD's (hehe theres some unfounded conjecture for ya). Wow you are thick (kinda surprising given the rest of your comment, which shows a decent level of thinking and logic. You sure that you aren't two different posters using one username?)
hey come on, who modded the parent down, its the funniest comment Ive seen all day :) (and relevant, maybe if he played it some more the incident wouldnt have happened....(or it would have been fatal, depending on if it was accidental)
actually australia was an early pioneer in computing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSIRAC
you sir are a moron. enjoy your prison country (while I try to avoid the repercussions from the stupidity of people like you). that is all
The US would not BE a target of terrorism if they weren't hippo-critically sticking their noses into everyone else's business, claiming they are fighting for freedom when every one with a brain can see they are just positioning themselves to best control oil resources/keep oil being sold in USD and serving other self interests.
Since This is my opinion of the current purpose of the US military (twofold, 1: line the pockets of defence contractor/oil investors, who just happen to be well represented amongst the current administration, and 2: maintain US control of as much oil as possible) and this purpose would be removed given the right funding for a) distributed wind power (including personal home generators if possible), B) battery tech research and mass production (especially advanced lithium tech. eg LiS batteries that can store 350+ whr/kg, or Li-air which could achieve storage of 6KWhr/Kg), your defence from "islamic terrorism" DOES affect the cost of your current energy supplies.
first off, I'm undecided on global warming, Im pretty sure its happening, pretty sure we're causing it (but either way, who cares who's to blame, if its a problem, fix it), but papers like this sometimes make me wonder.
from a conspiracy point of view, the following possible, but possibly doubtful scenario has occurred to me:
imagine you pretty much rule the world. Not like a dictator, more like a group of ultra powerful people in the shadows, pulling strings.
Now imagine your goal is complete control, orwell/v for vendetta style, one world government (controlled by you) and maximising your profits from the gigantic banks and corporations you own. (basically a world enslaved to you if possible)
Now imagine we are on the verge/entering into the robotic age where productivity of each person is multiplied by a huge factor over past levels, and that productivity has been constantly rising for hundreds of years. You know that if people get to keep enough of this extra productivity, many will become at least partially satisfied, having a decent house, food, clothing and money for entertainment etc, and start looking to only work part time/taking long interesting holidays/doing things they love rather than things they have to. On the other hand, if they dont keep enough of it, they may start realising somethings up and rise up against you. Basically what Im suggesting is that in this groups opinion there is likely an optimum level of wealth at which people have enough money to be very productive due to the tools etc they can purchase/not rebelling/not living in complete poverty, but not enough to not NEED to be productive, kind of a balance point between abject poverty (with the incurred risk of uprising) and eden, where no one bothers working much as they all have enough anyway.
With this in mind, the question they would have is: how do they control productivity (or even better skim it off the top so the worker doesn't get it) without the average poor slave (as thats what the workers are if this is real) realising whats happening.
One answer: invent a massive problem that means using too much fossil fuel energy (which in general means being too productive) is bad. Now there is a risk involved, because if people actually had brains and a bit of knowledge, they would realise that powering themselves entirely off of wind power is entirely within reach, and would actually bring huge productivity/wealth increases after it had been done due to the almost free energy (Im talking after the initial investment) (think about it. If the cost of the iraq war had gone into wind power, america would have about 1-2KW of electric power for each and every citizen.... not to mention far fewer people pissed off at them.)
So they have to be careful and make sure that the only solutions we are allowed are the ones their own corporations supply and can control(hybrid cars, hydrogen economy requiring massive investments and research, nuclear power, "green" coal (haha what?) etc etc) and none that could get away from them (eg electric cars: if people started driving them, they may be tempted to add on the cost of a small wind generator/a few solar panels onto the purchase cost and remove the energy costs (and more importantly to these assholes, control) entirely....
of course thats not the only way to keep the population poor and working, by illegal forms of taxation that penalise the honest working wealthy while the real rich useless (and crooked) types get around it through loop holes etc (check out the constitution, you might find it has some interesting things to say bout taxation), by the federal reserve rippoff and similar ripoffs in almost every nation world wide (federal reserve is a PRIVATE bank, yet it creates money out of thin air, not backed by anything, and loans it to the people (well other banks anyway) at interest... !!! america pays billions/t
A) the people being tortured are often innocent of any "terrorist" activity, as seen in various extraordinary rendition victims that ended up being released months later (but of course not apologised to or compensated for or given justice by punishing those responsible for months of torture)
B) The US has no real chain of command for responsibility purposes anyway. Bush and his cronies dont have "the buck stops here" signs, they have "I didnt do it, blame him, I know nussink" signs. Its not a punish those responsible system so much as a blame the (probably innocent) scapegoat for your mistakes and crimes.
I find it hilarious (in a laugh till you cry morbidly sort of way) that everything americans accuse other "terrorist nations" or "rogue states" of doing, they are doing themselves.
They are basically like a big primary school bully, walking around punching people and stealing their lunch money, all the while crying to the principal that some of the victims tried to fight back.
Now Im not religious, but it seems a decent percentage of the idiotic americans behind such behaviour claim to be, perhaps they should actually read that book they love so much, something about removing a log in your eye?
let the flaming begin (oh no you didnt...)
Pricing varies, in the domestic home user segment it seems to be about $1.5 per rated watt, which means it will put out one watt constantly in ok-medium wind. More in stronger wind, less in weaker wind, and for most people I'd say theyd be getting less than the rated power on average unless they live in a fairly windy place (my guess was 1/2 but this is just pulled out my a%$#). Converting to AC is fairly efficient (using an inverter), I think 80-90% is common
At the large scale, they seem to be approaching $1 per watt of AVERAGE power output, in install costs, though I dont think this includes the small but still noticeable maintainance costs. To put this in perspective, the iraq war has cost something like 0.5 trillian dollars. This would buy 500 gigawatts of wind capacity, or 1.5KW per american citizen.... (this is in my mind relevant as I see the iraq war as mostly a war for oil and a war for wars sake.) and a whole lot less pissed off middle eastern people.
basically wind costs about $1.50 per watt rated power at the moment, not sure what that is in actual average power in average wind conditions (whatever they might be...), but it sounds pretty darn cheap to me. My house needs about 1kw average power, so $1500 * (rough guess out of my ass) 2 (rated = 1/2 average power) = 3-4k, my electric bill is over 1k per year, so this will pay itself off in a few years.
add on a decent inverter $1k+, battery storage for a day or so $2k, and I'd be mostly off grid for about 6-7k, payoff time, 5-6 years.
anyway, I know I cant change anything, just letting off steam.