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Germany Wants EU to Ban Violent Games
FredDC writes "Germany is seeking support among other European countries to ban violent videogames during its EU Presidency, according to Infoworld. In an initiative led by Franco Frattini, the European Justice commissioner, Germany is pushing for restrictions on the sale of games with violent content of any kind, from Half-Life to Star Trek . In the eyes of the EU, gaming and real-world violence is 'linked', and steps should be taken to prevent the purchase of these games by younger people. From the article: 'The German government said it will conduct a study of all the different national rules concerning video games, with a view to setting Union-wide norms. Its initiative makes the prospect of a ban much more likely. Video game violence became a hot political issue in Germany at the end of last year when 18-year-old Sebastian Bosse shot up a high school in Emsdetten, Germany, injuring 37 before fatally turning the gun on himself. Police said Bosse spent most of his waking hours playing Counter-Strike.'" This, just days after two Final Fantasy VII fans were arrested in connection with a series of killings.
Isn't Germany where Hostel 1 and 2 are based?
"Thanks for all the money you paid to us. We've used it to buy off ISO among other things" -Microsoft
The rest of the west wants the United States to ban captial punishment. Not going to happen...
Fuck off, fuck off, fuck off, fuck off.
Christ, first WWII and now this. Why does Germany hate the rest of Europe so?
They just aim to create EU-wide unified criteria for judging violence in games. Nothing more. It has nothing to do with banning games!
They should just implement some kind of gun control. Yeah, that's the ticket; keep guns out of the hands of kids. Oh wait ...
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
They already have enough trouble getting stuff at the same time as the NA/Asian markets, and if this goes into effect, they'd be even worse off.
Ah, yes. Germany, where they limit freedoms and lock people up so that no one will come along and limit freedoms and lock people up.
I feel for Germany. As the country that was host to probably the greatest villain in the twentieth century there is going to be a lot of pressure to condemn things that could ever be even remotely like the horrible things that happened there during WWII. I say this is an overreaction, but it still makes sense in some way. After reading about this http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showthread .php?t=31767 story on slashdot earlier, and forcing myself to remember that Europe has its nudity/violence tolerance levels switched compared to America, I see this as a misguided, but inevitable event.
From the article.
"The Commission also wants to harmonize national rules in the 27 countries in the Union. "Protection of children cannot have borders," Frattini said. The Commission wants to see a combination of outright bans on the most violent games, together with minimum age rules on other titles."
How does an outright ban have nothing to do with baning games?
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
Violent crime has gone every year since videogames were first introduced. And the rate of violent crime began dropping very sharply starting in 1994 in the USA. Doom, the first modern "murder simulator" and poster child for those who like to like fantasy and real-world violence, was released in 1993. Is there a correlation? Maybe not, but it's every bit as cogent an argument as anything these anti-gaming fascists can come up with.
+0 Meh
It's no surprise they want to ban violent games, they'll be gassing muslims next!
I think we're all pretty sick of the constant political campaigns against violent games. In every case it's someone who goes nuts and commits some heinous crime and the fact that they played violent video games often is trotted out as either the sole cause or the trigger for the event. But there's thousands (maybe tens of thousands I don't have figures for EU) of other EU gamers playing HL and CS and somehow, beyond all odds, they manage to not go psycho and kill a bunch of people, how do they manage? [/sarcasm]
Why in this modern age must popliticians treat entire continental populations like a kindergarten class? A statistically insignificant number of people are in the ven diagram overlap of violent videogame players and violent criminals so such games are banned for everyone? Talk about lazy legislation, so sorry it's easier to try and ruin it for everyone else instead of actually investigating the other motivations and causes that lead to these tragedies and maybe learning to diagnose and treat or prevent such violent behavior. This has all been said before, it will all be said again, just ranting to get it out of my system.
-- I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist. It's not my fault that life sucks so much. --
Violent crime has gone down every year since videogames were first introduced.
+0 Meh
Let's get some swastikas going before Germany bans them!
I remember the German exchange student in my highschool years relating a story to me that fist fights and such outward violence is viewed as idiocy. He told me they tend to resolve conflicts verbally. Sure, they might swear at each other, but rarely does anyone resort to violence. He also played tons of GTA and said he did enjoy videogames. The guy woldn't hurt a fly. He was one of the coolest, most laid back people i've ever met, but the pot might've had something to do with that.
You constantly struggle for self improvement - and it shows.
Hooray for bad Engrish on fortune cookies
I have criticized the EU gov't for a long time already because it is an overreaching, overregulating piece of bureaucratic uselessness. This is the final straw.
Go on, restrict free speech a bit more, not that it matters by now. I'll download everything from respectful countries if need be. My country will probably be first in line supporting this idiotic idea, seeing as a liberal gov't official was recently quoted advocating the ban of Rule of Rose and this gov't is oh so keen on "protecting" me...
Global warming is a cube.
Will they ban the ever-popular french game, set cars on fire?
Other than aliens, who gets more deaths in video games than "za Hairmons"?
I would get a little tired of it to. "Jeez! Don't you nerds have anyone else you
can kill for awhile? The Nazis have been beaten for a little while now...can't you
make a game where you are invading the middle east? Or Russia, WTF happened to all
that animosity towards the soviets?!? Your gonna give the CCCP a big 'ol smooch,
but look out, here comes yet another Nazi-shooter..."
(joking aside, I am in agreement with the core issue: STOP MAKING FREAKING WWII
THEMED GAMES!!!)
What is with the constant scapegoating of video games in Germany? Folks connected to a murder being Final Fantasy fans is about as relevant as their being, I don't know, Nestea Cool fans or something. You would really have to be flat-out disingenuous and have some alternate agenda in order to make a connection between Final Fantasy VII and a homicide (unless it was with a big big sword, or one of those sweet guns Vincent has... mmm triple barrel goodness...). As for pushing for EU-wide standards for violence in games, well unless the EU is all one big monolithic culture, those standards will not reflect the views of enough people IMO. But then again I'm not even a supporter of ESRB ratings in the US. Or movie ratings for that matter.
I like basketball!!1!
... Violent Video Games Play You!
:D
Sorry, couldn't resist
Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
The Infoworld article is misleading and wrong (american journalism at work).
What has been reported in German-language news (see heise: http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/83790)
is simply that steps are being taken to create a central list of banned games in member states.
This in itself has NO effect on the actual bans or lack thereof.
The second thing is that the EU justice comissionary wants to (rough quote) "harmonise member state laws" on the matter (or as he refers to it, protection of children). It seems more likely that he means the list can be used by other countries, not that the EU will ban things directly.
Come on, people, everyone knows videogames make people violent. For example, Adolf Hitler was a Duke Nukem 3D fanatic, Josef Stalin loved Mortal Kombat, Che Guevara played Carmageddon the whole day, Pol Pot was crazy for Resident Evil...
Circumcision is child abuse.
I think they are all just pissed off about being the bad guys forever, since Wolfenstein 3-d. But that's what happens when you let a false flag terror operation suspend the original precepts of democracy so that the fascists can take over and start espionage against the public. Luckily here in the US we're way too smart for that..... Oh. Shit.......
rhY
I hold very few opinions. I hold information based on observation and fact. If you wish to disagree, please use facts.
Germany has had a few kids going nuts and in every case there was something in common. The person in question owned 'violent' video games. So it is very easy to ban video games.
But they forgot another thing all cases had in common, every person was attending high-shool of some sort of education. So my conclusion is to ban education and no more school shootings.
This give the kids also more time to play video games.
What power has law where only money rules.
For that matter, come to think of it, BAN GERMANY.
This space available.
Most people are a fan of something. Is the media going to start associating other crimes with the personal interests of those perpetrators? In some cases it may provide some insight but in most cases it does not. I can think of a few things out there more closely related to crime than this and those aren't investigated.
But I guess this hits closer to home for many people and when was the last time the news media hasn't sensationalized a story to make a few extra dollars?
There's something very frustrating about government officials getting fixated on non-issues when there are far more serious problems to contend with.
This, just days after two Final Fantasy VII fans were arrested in connection with a series of killings.
They're calling Final Fantasy VII "Killerspiele" ("killer game") because two killers used aliases from the game.
They think the game inspired them to kill. How? Did they take turns?
Did someone translate the X-Play skit for "RPG Radiculopathy" into German and leave out the humor?
Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
Well, I hope you are aware of the fact that the use of the swastika is only banned in Germany if you use it as a political symbol (meaning as a propaganda in favour of national socialism). The use of the swastika (and also the nazi flag) is legal in Germany in academia, theater, film, and also in all other circumstances where it is used not related to national socialism.
No officer, we're not national socialists, nothing of the sort. We are the local chapter of the Aryan Healthy Cookery Institute. Do try the strawberry and banana meringue pie, it's delicious with a sprinkle of cinnamon. The pie has been very popular this week; so popular in fact that there's been precious little room in the oven for jews. I'm only joking, there is always room in our oven for the cause. Shall I get you a spoon?
Do they have any supporting data, other than hearsay and fear? The only thorough study of the idea that violent video games and violent tendencies are linked that I know of (here) failed to find any such link at all, even when the researchers entered the study expecting to find a link. And this is any link whatsoever, not just whether violent video games cause violent tendencies.
What else would the nazi flag be associated with?
:)
OK, let me phrase it more clearly:
1) The use of the swastika (and also the nazi flag) is legal in Germany in academia, theater, film.
2) The use of the swastika is also legal in all other circumstances where it is used not related to national socialism.
(You might know that the swastika as a symbol is older than national socialism.)
The clue to this distinction should have been the comma before the "and". But I know, these little details are easily lost on the casual reader...
Violent video games do not create violent people. Instead, society ills create violent people, none of which are the video game's fault.
...that this gory Worms mayhem is stopped by the authorities
I'll take 'Exercises in futility in the age of file sharing' for a thousand Alex.
In Call of Duty.
Once I was a four stone apology. Now I am two separate gorillas.
Only some stupid politicians!
The Germans, they are not a warlike people.
Apparently violence is bad, but shitting and pissing on someone in a porno is A-OK. I could wrong though, perhaps I wasn't watching German porn so much as it was the German version of the School House Rock segment on how the government works.
Some of the games that I have played (and enjoyed) include Carmageddon, Doom, Doom2, Unreal Tournament, Quake3, Return to Castle Wolfenstein, Unreal Tournament 2004, Doom3. After all this virtual blood, I can't hurt an ant and I can't stand to even see violence in real.
Some people just don't get it. Real violence is one thing, virtual is another.
And it's not like that violence in movies can be as (or more) graphic as in video/computer games, right? Not that violence in Germany wasn't present before video games either (WWII).
How about if I have a swastika and the words "Heil Hitler" tattooed on my forehead?
I'm not a Nazi, I just don't see a clear-cut distinction. If the Nazis organized meetings under the pretense of cookery or bavarian beer tasting, would that be illegal?
Politicians never bother with it, they go with what they think, and they got elected so they must be right.
For examples of this behaviour see the war on drugs. Whenever new studies come out, even if they were funded by the government, if they don't fit the ideology they are discarded.
We do not currently have a society based on evidence or reason. More's the pity.
You miss the point. You can't buy porn if you're under 18, yet you can buy video games that contain violence. There is a system to rate violence in video games, but some german politicians seem to thing that it's not strict enough, that's all.
Why would Germany care for what other countries allow? :-p
Are they losing out revenue on not wanting violent games in their own country, and thus don't want anyone else to profit from sales or what?
If they only minded their own business and limited their own crazy laws to themselves.
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
Ok.. so a country bans a video game... because it creates violence for children and kids.
Well violence still continues...
So, do you ban the console video games are played on? Start banning hockey, soccer, other sports, media, wars?
For every bit of violence that is seen, someone will make an excuse for the violence. It is becoming a never ending cycle - ban something you do not understand instead of actaully seeing where the problem stems from.
Shall we ban people from the internet next? What a kid doesnt see on a video game, they can always go see/read/listen to on the internet. What I have seen on the 5 o'clock news can be worse than many "violent" video games.
Me personally... I watch what my kid plays.. I play the video game too (rented).. and if I think it is too violent, then I dont buy it or let him play it. My kid is my responsibility.. I am responsible for what he watches and sees.. not the government.
Video games and motion pictures are both audiovisual works. Would a swastika in a video game be treated the same as one in a film?
How about if I have a swastika and the words "Heil Hitler" tattooed on my forehead?
:)
I'm not a Nazi, I just don't see a clear-cut distinction. If the Nazis organized meetings under the pretense of cookery or bavarian beer tasting, would that be illegal?
The distinction might be in some cases difficult. Just to be clear: I'm not arguing that there are no restrictions in Germany, there are. Flying the nazi flag on your flag pole in the back yard, or putting a nazi sticker on your car surely is illegal in Germany (not sure what would be the exact consequences, though). But when I read comments like "but you need the symbol for historic education, movies and theater" I get the feeling that many people have a quite limited knowledge what the situation is like in Germany. You can see nazi symbols quite a lot in Germany. In movies, reports, books, whatever. But just showing the nazi symbols without a "proper" context is surely not accepted. And yes, there is sometimes trouble since there seem to be different opinions when the use of the symbol is acceptable and when not. I remember there was the case of some guys using he symbol for a sticker which was clearly supposed to be anti-nazi, but they still got in trouble. I don't remember how the case ended, though.
We have right wing organisations (so called neo-nazi organisations) which organise meetings, demonstrations etc. The biggest one being the NPD (National-democratic party of Germany. The established parties wanted to let them (the NPD) be declared illegal not too long ago, but they failed at the constitutional court. Organisations like these organise their meetings, demonstrations, party ralleys etc. Sometimes they have trouble because many cities don't want these events taking place in their area. Organisation like the NPD have gone to court to force cities to allow their party ralleys and demonstrations, and the often succeed. After all, as long as they are not outlawed they have the right to have their meetings like other organisations, too. But you can be sure that the NPD takes care that no nazi flags are shown on their events (although surely at least some of their members would like to).
It's quite a complicate topic.
The Infoworld article is misleading and wrong (american journalism at work).
This has always puzzled me. Why does every defense of European legislation involve a slam on the United States? Is it to divert attention, or do you truly think American reporters are sitting around a table going "Well, we haven't made up anything about Germany lately, let's report they are turning old people into Snausages."
Has everyone on this planet forgotten there were murders and crimes before we had video games?
Ok, this guy did spend quite a lot of time playing Counter-Strike, and thus, when he kills some people with a gun, it has to be linked. Correct?
No, it isn't. Now, if I was an avid surfer (IANAS), and one day I cracked and decided to kill my classmates, I would not whack them to death with my surf board. No, I would get access to whatever knife or gun I could and kill people that way. These people are over-reacting.
Ninjas use italics.
You know perhaps the issue is about a young man playing to much computer games (I'm guessing 8 hours to 14 hours a day)... I played alot of Quake ten years ago, and got very good at it, well you have to get good if you play 8 hours a day for a couple of months. But you can't play that much without getting into somek ind of trouble, e.g. not doing everything you should in school, moving around less.
There are several reactions you can have when you discover that you are playing to much, either you stop, or you play more and more. The "I will shoot down all my classmates" reaction, is pretty long down that list, though.
Not germany, Bavaria (dont mix that up with austria, we are very close languagewise, but totally different mentalitywise) Bavaria sort of is the Redneck state of germany, with some asshole populist politicians who have been on an anti gaming and video crusade for almost 20 years.
As someone stated once,
If computer games makes you violent, why isn't there more violence at computer gaming cons?
It would be the perfect opportunity, people play counterstrike for 40 hours straight, have their senses depraved from lack of sleep and too much Red Bull and CC and Jolt and whatever, probably gets pissed at the kid who kills them in every single game...
When, for god's sake, are they going to realize that it's responsability of the parents to guide their children and prevent such cases of younger people playing too many hours or inadequate games. I have played all kind of games trough all my life and I've never kill anybody, the difference is, my parents told me when to stop. Instead of banning games, they should made a training camp for parents.
When you're under 18 you can buy games with violence in them, yes. But that's only because a little violence doesn't immediately trigger the 18 rating. In Germany many of the more violent games are rated 18 and cannot be legally sold to minors.
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
people, could we switch back to normal? we hear proposals to outright ban all computer and video games from rightwing politicians all over the world. germany also has it's share of conservative fundamentalists and some sensationalist yellow press, while the majority rejects either the ban of games, of abortion or of free speech. on the other hand, some people even enjoy watching snuff videos. are snuff videos free speech? should it be legal to make a business from it? no. are 'manhunt' and 'postal' the right games for a 9-year-old? no. there should be big fat labels on the box, cd and starting screen of games, showing the appropriate user age, so parents can decide. and exactly this is what the EU is trying to achieve these days: continent-wide rules for age labels. which is good. no matter what rightwing nutheads are trying to tell us.
37 injured no kills? must be a laggy server
Why has no one ever mentioned banning something that has a REAL correlation to centuries of violence like organized religion?
Stop using your logic! You're not being a good little zombie who "thinks of the children, blah blah blah". :)
There are no tiger attacks in my area and it's all because this rock I'm holding keeps the tigers away.
Due to their track records of very bad decisions, politicians in general are less and less trusted to make correct decisions. In all areas that count, like economy, foreign politics, energy, there is a strong milieu of think tanks, lobbyists and experts that make the politician's individual ideas a minor factor. So when politicians find a relatively unchartered territory, where expert knowledge has not created a clearly limited field of options, they like to hold extreme views that they wouldn't get away with under the scrutiny they are used to. This doesn't just apply to video games, but also to the treatment of illegal immigrants, internet monitoring and other fields.
In other words, this will continue to happen until video game producers and gamers organize and build up a power structure that exerts political influence and whacks over the head those who offer stupid ideas. A workers union of video game coders and artists, plus a representation of interests of video game companies, plus a couple of anti-legislation groups of consumers that manage to ally themselves under an umbrella organization would probably do the trick.
blow your mind already
Something I haven't seen mentioned yet is the developers of FarCry, who have a 100-strong team in Germany told 1up.com that if the German goverment were to enforce this rule - they would simply relocate. Now surely this would not only hurt their development industry but also the sales industry (with a 3million+ selling game like Gears of War dissallowed, people will start being reluctant to paying out the prices for next-gen consoles if they can't get their favourite games for them). Another point to consider is that where will they stop, first it's video games - on the same page you can also then move on to movies and TV programmes... hell let's do books while we are at it. I think someone in the government needs to have a realisation of what they are trying to do here - as it seems like it will do a lot more damage than it will good (it's not like if these kids don't play counter strike they can't go and watch terminator 2 and see much of the same kind of thing).
Business Voyeur
This is a perfect example of my friend. He was raised with the mentality that he was never too young to take responsibility for something. Hence, his dad (who owneds a business) had him placing orders and running the office work at the age of 14-15. By the time I was working with him and his dad, he could run the entire business at the age of 16. The kid's ~20 now and he's insanely good at whatever he puts himself to. You don't get that from treating kids like kids.
Man is the lowest-cost, 150-pound, nonlinear, all-purpose computer system which can be mass-produced by unskilled labor.
There's too many people out there who are mentally deranged enough to act video games out in real life. I dont think we can ever pinpoint these psychos entirely, but the best we can do is limit gaming content. On one hand, I do enjoy a good FPS, but on the other, so does Mr Psycho in the Middle East. Who takes action? Me? Living in a first world country where violence is a minimal thing - I dont think so. Or Mr Psycho in the Middle East where violence is as prevalent as breathing. I can't see an answer there, shall we ban violence in video games? limit it to people over the age of 18? I dont know. But why the focus on just violence? Female objectification and even pornography in video games is becoming a more and more prevalent thing. Do we forget the rape statistics and how women are being demeaned and disrespected in this day and age? Are women doomed to be the lesser of the 2 sexes? I think not. Both of these evils are alive and well, tainting men and women's minds including children to make society what it is today. We need to do something, but I'm not sure what. Maybe just ban everything so we all have to play happy fun time games like Spongebob Squarepants :) lol that would go down well!!!
But then we have the issue about movie content too. Then the internet.
Obviously the issue of how content affects us is huge, and there will always be people out there exploiting these mediums and the deranged ones will still go about being deranged whether they have played a violent game or not, but I'd rather not feed their psychosis.