" figure they'll get it anyway, might as well help them along if I can get something out of it." is a self fulfilling prophesy. People only win because you have already surrendered.
I won't claim that nobody has sifted my data for a profile, but I surely don't give companies anything even for a price. The exception I can think of off the top of my head is my GM Car and On-Star. I realize that they can track me by GPS, but I don't drive very much. My car is a 2011 with 18K miles on it, and about 4,000 of that is from when I moved across the country. The bank knows where my car is parked so I don't think On-Star makes that much difference.
Games, Facebook, Apps for the phone, forget it. Even things that require email addresses can generally be done with disposable email accounts with the exception of Facebook which I have not visited in years.
I'm not knocking you, your information is yours to hand away or sell as you wish. Just don't have the expectation that we should all do like you do.
What specific are you missing? Morally theft is wrong. Stealing something can be difficult or complex. The easier it is to steal something, the more likely it is to occur. That has been my assertion since the first post and every subsequent post.
I never stated that the victim is at fault, and don't agree with that position.
That comment was in regards to your assertion (sarcastically) that the victim is to blame for the crime.
You seem to have great difficulty in reading and comprehending English. What straw man has been set up or could be set up? You continue to conflate morality with the ease of an access to a crime. "Morality is not the same thing as ease of access."
You have repeated ignored my opinion and substituted your belief of what my opinion actually is. I'm sure you know everyone else' opinion way better than they do right? No, don't answer that. Go troll someone else.
I agree. My original point was that the situation should not be shocking to anyone. This is especially true of alleged "Nerds" who should know how these things work.
You are either implying that I approve of illegal behavior through sarcasm, or that you approving the illegal behavior. If the latter, I disagree. If the former, see the latter.
No matter which way I read your post I disagree. I never stated that the victim is at fault, and don't agree with that position. The point I made was that if you keep the candy jar open and in a spot where it's difficult to monitor, you should not be surprised that people grab a piece without your knowledge.
In other words, we have known for as long as Web ads have been around that "click to pay" can be spoofed. Advertisers kind of forced things in that direction because it looked cheaper on the surface.
First, morality has been in the trash can for quite some time. Some is my own cynicism as I age, but I don't remember corruption being this open when I was younger. I don't see many people even try to hide it today.
Now the easy part. How hard is it to spoof data? I could write code in seconds which builds BS HTML strings and pumps them to wherever I want. I don't believe the advertisers are too shocked about this either, or they would have done something long ago to ensure better security.
How many pay for Web sites are cash only? I know of exactly... zero
There is a reason registered credit cards are not used for laundering money, and at reasons that online vendors need to track who pays them for what goods.
I don't claim to know Canadian law, and didn't pay enough attention to see it was a Canadian company:) Class action suit would not fly in the US, but may in Canada.
The best that any company can do is reduce things down to a real name and transaction number, which could then be cross referenced (perhaps externally) to find payment data. Deleting "all" data would be a breach in law, as you are required to maintain financial records for at least 7 years. There is no restriction for credit card purchases, compliance testing just ensures that you are not keeping Card data and PII data like PIN numbers and SSN.
Sneaker-net is the only answer here, and it's difficult to maintain feasibility on a web site to begin with. And we all know what happens when people need bonus checks and higher profit margins. Why do you think we have all those articles on the risks to our power plants and water treatment facilities? When the Government with the biggest budget in world history won't pay a few bucks for it.. well why would you expect any different behavior from others?
Thank you for proving my point regarding not being much above illiterate several times in several displays.
Workable analogy for anyone else: If a person leaves a box of raisins on the train open for everyone to see, and writes a sign saying "not for public consumption" should it be illegal for someone to eat one of those raisins?
The obvious answer is no, it should not be illegal. The person who put the open container on the train is an idiot. People who see the bucket and can't read the sign can not have any expectation that the raisins are contraband, nor should they.
The same thing could be said about an open electrical outlet on a train where a person can easily access the outlet. Being able to see an outlet is not the same thing as being able to read the sign above it, but you can't seem to differentiate object from language.
I said "for anyone else" due to the fact that I have no confidence in your ability to process rational thoughts. You can not write them, so probably can not read them. I certainly hope that you visit a country like China one day and charge your cell phone in the outlet surrounded by language you can't comprehend. "Never happen with me" works until you are at 0% battery and lost, but you probably can not comprehend that far either.
Sure, there are some dipshits in the world but that percentage is so small that they should never every get any coverage by anyone.. Yet here we have 4 different (semi) reputable sources repeating someone's nonsense.
My theory is as good as theirs by the way, and historically more plausible.
Sad that you have such a shallow view of the world. I'm sure that the immigrant or tourist who has not been educated by your public schools would agree with me. As would the person born in poverty that had to drop out of school in order to live. Both would be rare, but the law must be applied universally or it is unjust.
I should not have had to show you the exceptions to the rule, you should have been able to see them for yourself. Don't put your "public education" that far above illiterate because it really isn't.
I didn't bother reading anything but the summary, because the summary takes every possible approach attempting paint criminals and scum as good for society. MS is lobbying for he wrong things for the sole reason of making more money. The 10mil is peanuts compared to companies which make a lot less profits without screwing over neighbors for "moh money"
Surely Gates, Balmer and even Microsoft could pay back society.. but this is not a a payment at all.. it is business as usual.
You seem to be attempting to isolate applications that phone home from software with a back door. One does not discount the other, and one is not necessarily better or worse than the other. We happen to see more legitimate applications phoning home (CAD/CAE software for example) but Botnet hosts do also.
Phoning home is something that can be detected, so the high end software won't.
Really, Hacking Team was just doing things the way a very small segment of society which currently holds most financial capital thinks everybody should be operating.
FTFY - SOPA, TPP, etc.. are not products of the Software industry. I am pretty sure I agree with your point under the surface, but the generalization is plain wrong.
And who exactly would have prosecuted them? The Governments paying them to build software so that the Governments could hack people? Without the source leak, how would anyone have known except by the end consumer providing network dumps? Call me a skeptic, but I doubt the people buying this were installing it locally for forensic reasons.
I'm curious what Hacking Team thought was worth the risk of watermarking their products to customer installations and having these alleged backdoors to backdoors. Seems like a lot of risk for no payoff unless they hoped one day to "flip the script" and hack their customer base...
I can easily see a few reasons for them to watermark their customer's installations of their software. First is obviously leverage against prosecution. Second would be to determine who did what with their software. Their own back door would allow them to kill software on a non-paying customer (or one that caused litigation). The last is an increase in revenue. There are some interesting ways to encrypt your binaries which the watermarks could have done. Sudan's software would not be able to run Nigeria's software for example, so this would ensure that everyone pays for everything individually.
Lots of reasons for an immoral shitbag company to do immoral shitbag things to everyone, not just "some" people.
I would imagine the fact that Tsipras has had numerous face to face and phone meetings with Putin in both Greece and Russia in the last 6 months alone:
So has Barack Obama, so has Angelina Merkel, John Kerry, David Cameron, etc, etc, etc... That is what heads of National Departments and Nations do because it's in their job description. Your reasoning is completely irrational.
Something for nothing? Heck no, the EU creditors were not giving loans from the goodness of their hearts.
Yes, the Greek Government is mostly at fault for this.. but so are the Greek people who keep voting in people making false promises. You know, the guys who claim that you can have all of these Government programs for "free".
I really have no idea why you tried the ole cold war propaganda routine, but it does not make any sense here at all.
Prior to the Internet, and the corporate and government push to get everyone on line, spying on people was expensive in both human and physical resources. The "good ole days" was really not that long ago, because until very recently nobody could afford to spy on everyone in a country.
When a Government must lie to the populace it is supposed to represent, and must operate in extreme secrecy, it is no longer a Republic.
Just because we are not seeing Government death squads you believe we are still being ruled by the people? If you really believe that, I'd recommend a lobotomy. The West has been gone for at last three decades, only existing as a fantasy for the masses who have enough "entertainment" to maintain the fantasy.
Sadly, there will still be a push to outlaw encryption just like there is a push to outlaw guns. Everyone should know the consequences of giving up everything to the Government. Cretins have always been attracted to public offices. Rights for you are expendable as long as their rights are covered. Every government in history has had to be overthrown because of the same damn problems. Too bad we never learn.
Can the politicians! Order the code red! Don your helmets! E... Dang it, I'm out of ideas for my cypher....
Slashdot Mirror
" figure they'll get it anyway, might as well help them along if I can get something out of it." is a self fulfilling prophesy. People only win because you have already surrendered.
I won't claim that nobody has sifted my data for a profile, but I surely don't give companies anything even for a price. The exception I can think of off the top of my head is my GM Car and On-Star. I realize that they can track me by GPS, but I don't drive very much. My car is a 2011 with 18K miles on it, and about 4,000 of that is from when I moved across the country. The bank knows where my car is parked so I don't think On-Star makes that much difference.
Games, Facebook, Apps for the phone, forget it. Even things that require email addresses can generally be done with disposable email accounts with the exception of Facebook which I have not visited in years.
I'm not knocking you, your information is yours to hand away or sell as you wish. Just don't have the expectation that we should all do like you do.
What specific are you missing? Morally theft is wrong. Stealing something can be difficult or complex. The easier it is to steal something, the more likely it is to occur. That has been my assertion since the first post and every subsequent post.
I never stated that the victim is at fault, and don't agree with that position.
That comment was in regards to your assertion (sarcastically) that the victim is to blame for the crime.
You seem to have great difficulty in reading and comprehending English. What straw man has been set up or could be set up? You continue to conflate morality with the ease of an access to a crime. "Morality is not the same thing as ease of access."
You have repeated ignored my opinion and substituted your belief of what my opinion actually is. I'm sure you know everyone else' opinion way better than they do right? No, don't answer that. Go troll someone else.
here... You only need the car to receive a radio signal, so could use standard radio stations for the push.. just make a commercial.
I agree. My original point was that the situation should not be shocking to anyone. This is especially true of alleged "Nerds" who should know how these things work.
You are either implying that I approve of illegal behavior through sarcasm, or that you approving the illegal behavior. If the latter, I disagree. If the former, see the latter.
Morality is not the same thing as ease of access.
No matter which way I read your post I disagree. I never stated that the victim is at fault, and don't agree with that position. The point I made was that if you keep the candy jar open and in a spot where it's difficult to monitor, you should not be surprised that people grab a piece without your knowledge.
In other words, we have known for as long as Web ads have been around that "click to pay" can be spoofed. Advertisers kind of forced things in that direction because it looked cheaper on the surface.
First, morality has been in the trash can for quite some time. Some is my own cynicism as I age, but I don't remember corruption being this open when I was younger. I don't see many people even try to hide it today.
Now the easy part. How hard is it to spoof data? I could write code in seconds which builds BS HTML strings and pumps them to wherever I want. I don't believe the advertisers are too shocked about this either, or they would have done something long ago to ensure better security.
How many pay for Web sites are cash only? I know of exactly... zero
There is a reason registered credit cards are not used for laundering money, and at reasons that online vendors need to track who pays them for what goods.
I don't claim to know Canadian law, and didn't pay enough attention to see it was a Canadian company :) Class action suit would not fly in the US, but may in Canada.
The best that any company can do is reduce things down to a real name and transaction number, which could then be cross referenced (perhaps externally) to find payment data. Deleting "all" data would be a breach in law, as you are required to maintain financial records for at least 7 years. There is no restriction for credit card purchases, compliance testing just ensures that you are not keeping Card data and PII data like PIN numbers and SSN.
Sneaker-net is the only answer here, and it's difficult to maintain feasibility on a web site to begin with. And we all know what happens when people need bonus checks and higher profit margins. Why do you think we have all those articles on the risks to our power plants and water treatment facilities? When the Government with the biggest budget in world history won't pay a few bucks for it.. well why would you expect any different behavior from others?
Thank you for proving my point regarding not being much above illiterate several times in several displays.
Workable analogy for anyone else: If a person leaves a box of raisins on the train open for everyone to see, and writes a sign saying "not for public consumption" should it be illegal for someone to eat one of those raisins?
The obvious answer is no, it should not be illegal. The person who put the open container on the train is an idiot. People who see the bucket and can't read the sign can not have any expectation that the raisins are contraband, nor should they.
The same thing could be said about an open electrical outlet on a train where a person can easily access the outlet. Being able to see an outlet is not the same thing as being able to read the sign above it, but you can't seem to differentiate object from language.
I said "for anyone else" due to the fact that I have no confidence in your ability to process rational thoughts. You can not write them, so probably can not read them. I certainly hope that you visit a country like China one day and charge your cell phone in the outlet surrounded by language you can't comprehend. "Never happen with me" works until you are at 0% battery and lost, but you probably can not comprehend that far either.
Hey, look over there! SHINY STUFF!
Sure, there are some dipshits in the world but that percentage is so small that they should never every get any coverage by anyone.. Yet here we have 4 different (semi) reputable sources repeating someone's nonsense.
My theory is as good as theirs by the way, and historically more plausible.
Sad that you have such a shallow view of the world. I'm sure that the immigrant or tourist who has not been educated by your public schools would agree with me. As would the person born in poverty that had to drop out of school in order to live. Both would be rare, but the law must be applied universally or it is unjust.
I should not have had to show you the exceptions to the rule, you should have been able to see them for yourself. Don't put your "public education" that far above illiterate because it really isn't.
Not any different, as this would require that 100% of the people on the trains are fully literate in English.
I didn't bother reading anything but the summary, because the summary takes every possible approach attempting paint criminals and scum as good for society. MS is lobbying for he wrong things for the sole reason of making more money. The 10mil is peanuts compared to companies which make a lot less profits without screwing over neighbors for "moh money"
Surely Gates, Balmer and even Microsoft could pay back society.. but this is not a a payment at all.. it is business as usual.
You seem to be attempting to isolate applications that phone home from software with a back door. One does not discount the other, and one is not necessarily better or worse than the other. We happen to see more legitimate applications phoning home (CAD/CAE software for example) but Botnet hosts do also.
Phoning home is something that can be detected, so the high end software won't.
Really, Hacking Team was just doing things the way a very small segment of society which currently holds most financial capital thinks everybody should be operating.
FTFY - SOPA, TPP, etc.. are not products of the Software industry. I am pretty sure I agree with your point under the surface, but the generalization is plain wrong.
And who exactly would have prosecuted them? The Governments paying them to build software so that the Governments could hack people? Without the source leak, how would anyone have known except by the end consumer providing network dumps? Call me a skeptic, but I doubt the people buying this were installing it locally for forensic reasons.
I'm curious what Hacking Team thought was worth the risk of watermarking their products to customer installations and having these alleged backdoors to backdoors. Seems like a lot of risk for no payoff unless they hoped one day to "flip the script" and hack their customer base...
I can easily see a few reasons for them to watermark their customer's installations of their software. First is obviously leverage against prosecution. Second would be to determine who did what with their software. Their own back door would allow them to kill software on a non-paying customer (or one that caused litigation). The last is an increase in revenue. There are some interesting ways to encrypt your binaries which the watermarks could have done. Sudan's software would not be able to run Nigeria's software for example, so this would ensure that everyone pays for everything individually.
Lots of reasons for an immoral shitbag company to do immoral shitbag things to everyone, not just "some" people.
I would imagine the fact that Tsipras has had numerous face to face and phone meetings with Putin in both Greece and Russia in the last 6 months alone:
So has Barack Obama, so has Angelina Merkel, John Kerry, David Cameron, etc, etc, etc... That is what heads of National Departments and Nations do because it's in their job description. Your reasoning is completely irrational.
Something for nothing? Heck no, the EU creditors were not giving loans from the goodness of their hearts.
Yes, the Greek Government is mostly at fault for this.. but so are the Greek people who keep voting in people making false promises. You know, the guys who claim that you can have all of these Government programs for "free".
I really have no idea why you tried the ole cold war propaganda routine, but it does not make any sense here at all.
Prior to the Internet, and the corporate and government push to get everyone on line, spying on people was expensive in both human and physical resources. The "good ole days" was really not that long ago, because until very recently nobody could afford to spy on everyone in a country.
I wish there was a grammar robot ...
if(No_Caps){lashes=lashes+1};
if(No_Punctuation){lashes=lashes+1};
if(lashes >10){put_user_out_to_pasture};
When a Government must lie to the populace it is supposed to represent, and must operate in extreme secrecy, it is no longer a Republic.
Just because we are not seeing Government death squads you believe we are still being ruled by the people? If you really believe that, I'd recommend a lobotomy. The West has been gone for at last three decades, only existing as a fantasy for the masses who have enough "entertainment" to maintain the fantasy.
Sadly, there will still be a push to outlaw encryption just like there is a push to outlaw guns. Everyone should know the consequences of giving up everything to the Government. Cretins have always been attracted to public offices. Rights for you are expendable as long as their rights are covered. Every government in history has had to be overthrown because of the same damn problems. Too bad we never learn.
Can the politicians! Order the code red! Don your helmets! E... Dang it, I'm out of ideas for my cypher....