From the user manual of he 7000-8000 user guide (pdf) found on page 42:
11 Press F8 to save your configuration and reboot the system. The rebuild will start within a few minutes of the 3ware driver loading, once the operating system has booted.
The 3ware 7506 does not do hardware RAID by itself.
I have talked extensively with 3ware engineers and can assure you this is the case. They might have aprocessor on the card but it is using the CPU to do RAID calculations.
If you want to compare marketing blurbs with real life experience diagnosing and troubleshooting these products, then by all means go ahead, but saying I am spreading FUD is not informative.
Like I said, it DOES say in their documentation that it is hardware, they can SAY anything, the proof is that if you read further into the documentation, you will see that any initialization occurs 10 minutes AFTER the OS has booted.
The hardware RAID is just marketing BS, from years of supporting these cards I can definitely tell you they are NOT hardware based.
Yes you can "create" an array in the BIOS, will it be initialized or useable until the RAID driver has loaded into the OS? No.
I dunno about that, with U160 and U320 you would have to use at least 5 drives or more to max out the bandwidth that U160 provides and upwards of 8 or more for U320.
No RAID systems use one channel per drive, maybe you are thinking connector, in which case that would be SATA, and possibly IDE to maximize bandwidth.
Most RAID cards have more than one channel per card, but multiple connectors per channel (7-15 on SCSI, up to 12 that I have seen on SATA, and 2 per channel for IDE).
"Of course there are the companies that won't so much as touch software RAID (namely 3ware)"
Until the 9500 (and MAYBE 9000) series ALL of 3ware's offerings were software RAID. this is why you couldn't initalize a RAID array until the OS booted (and 10 minutes after that), it even says this in the manual.
I worked in tech support for a company that sold these for 2 years and talked with the 3ware techs quite extensively on the subject.
As a company they don't officially admit it, but from a technical standpoint it is obvious they only supported software RAID.
"Modern CPUs are very, very fast, and in many cases can calculate parity faster than dedicated controllers,"
Especially given the fact that most CPU usage is less than 18% when calcualting parity for RAID 5, so compare 18% of your CPU cost and see if it is worth it to lose that much over head (or buy the next higher model) OR pay 400+ for hardware RAID.
I'd say RAID 5 is the best solution for home backups, you have redundancy for disk failure and with monthly or even quarterly backups you should be fine. (who wants to spend 12 hours a week backing up to tape?).
The nice 3ware cards for 100 bucks are NOT hardware raid, they use the CPU to calculate the RAID, it might even say it is in the literature but working at company (tech support) who sells servers that use 3ware for 80% of it's business, I can definitely tell you this isn't the case.
You CAN get a hardware based 3ware card, but then you are looking at 400-500 bucks (+some for the battery backup unit).
Plus if you read the parent correctly, 4 300GB hard drives for 50 bucks totals 200 bucks, a "3ware card for a few hundred bucks " WOULD double the cost.
"Anybody charging less either goes out of business due to insufficient revenues, or forces his competitors to lower prices or fail. In the equilibrium state, all prices are nearly identical."
If this WAS true, then the oil companies could take a hit on their monthly/quarterly billion dollar profits to capture more of the market and force out their competition, like the Japanese did in the 70/80s with their cars.
But they don't because they are monopolies and have no reason to, they would only be competing with themselves.
""maximising shareholder value" is what businesses do, looking for bargains is what consumers do, the end result is "supply and demand""
Really? What it seems to work out to is "anything to make more money regardless of morals and integrity" is what businesses do, fighting as hard as we can to minimize the damage these corporations do to our health and environment while still trying to afford 5 dollars a pound for meat and 3.50 a gallon for gas is what consumers do, and the end result is "the strong preying on the weak with the permission of the government".
Shoot, that is the wrong video.. oh well, sorry for the confusion, I have been looking trying to find the video I saw a week or so ago but I haven't had much luck. If I can find it I will rep-ly again with a link.
I personally hate reading the escapist, I don't find it particularly entertaining and the way the articles are laid out is makes me feel like I am reading a gaming magazine, do I need 15 pages for an article that could be fit in one? oooh text on top and next to pictures, am I 3 years old and need to be placated with 3 lines of text and a 640x480 bitmap?
anyway, that's why I don't read articles by them submitted in slashdot, maybe this should have been a journal entry but i'm sure i'm not the only one who feels this way.
I will "miss out" on DX10, and i guess that's fine, but i'm not an early adopter, sheesh I was running 98SE (stable mind you) until mid 2003.
Making DX10 vista only is just a bad decision in my mind, I can see the advantages but they aren't enough to get me to early adopt, esp when the 3 year old rig i have now runs all of the latest games that are out and I understand XP enough to know the solution to any current driver/game/hardware problems. (and be IT support for the OS btw).
SO to sum up, the parent makes a great point, i think it has some interesting parallels with the HD blu-ray war going on right now, just not enough to justfy upgrading as soon as it comes out.
I think you would need Microsoft and DRM in the same sentence, but then also something ABOUT microsoft and DRM in the same sentence, preferably that the combination is bad. Which it is bad. No likey. Evil M$
They did question me, they asked where the dope was and what I was doing in that part of town.
Or are you saying that they wouldn't "falsely imprision" this man to ask him questions about his possible pedophilic tendencies? Have you ever watched COPS?!? The cuff go on THEN they inquire, not the other way around...
Oh, I was talking about PCs, try gamefly, you can try the games out and make up your own mind.. SS2 was not as good as the first installment, but mainly from a PC POV, the ps2 would more likely be a lot of fun, esp with co-op.
Re:Still my Pentium favourite
on
Quake is 10
·
· Score: 1
"got my screenname [used on Slashdot now too] from playing Quake on dialup, and P2P with another local kid."
I used to have the name Somebody in my quake days, i thought it was hilarious to go into the console and see the death messages:
"FragMaster was nailed by Somebody"
"Somebody rode Fragmaster's rocket"
Works just as well nowadays with SomeLlama, but a bit more humiliating when I kill someone:-P
Re:quake on a dual ISDN
on
Quake is 10
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
"Good stuff, having 10ms pings to most other college servers."
Oh man I hated you guys soooo much!!!! I couldn't afford an ISDN or 2 56k connections back then (you could use this special modem from Diamond MM that would aggregate 2 modem connections).
So I would kick everyone's butt except for those creeps with the sub 100 pings, zipping around with your rocket launchers, grabbing the pentagram of protection before I could.. arrgh!!
I remember thinking that once I had sub 250 pings i would kick anyone's butt, then when dsl was finally affordable CS was all the rage and I had another year of losing before i got some skills...
"Me and a bunch of friends against a seemingly unstoppable horde of alien scum--that's what I want in a game."
Then checkout Starship Troopers, based off of the movie, it has Co-Op for most of the single player missions, endless waves of baddies and tons of guts to be spilled!
Also Serious Sam is great fun (the first 2 original versions or the newest sequel).
"I'd say the police have as much right as anyone else to question him (assuming no crime was committed). "WTF did you think you were doing?" sort of thing. Social pressure is an important part of the social glue that keeps society together."
You are SOOO right, this is why I am glad that the police stopped my vehicle, put me in handcuffs in the back of a police car and then searched my car thoroughly for 30 minutes while repeatedly asking me where "the dope was hidden".
Apparently (the cop told me) I was not supposed to be on that side of town and asked me what I was doing there (the answer, visiting a friend who lived in the neighborhood).
Luckily he let me off with a warning and made sure to let me know that "I owed him one for letting me go".
I'm glad we have police who are willing to go the extra mile and question people who don't behave the way the police believe they should behave, or visit places deemed "appropriate".
(true story).
Re:Ok, I was interested before but now....
on
Wii-mote In Action
·
· Score: 1
"This said, this idea doesn't compansate for everything, like vertical sword blocks. You wouldn't want the camera doing lateral pans, or you'll most likely end up looking at the characters from underground."
That's a good point, I guess what I would do is have the camera pan straight back at an upwards angle, but it most likely be pretty rare to be 100% at a right degree for this to not have some sort of circualr pan happening, but definitely something I hadn't thought of...
"Hell, send off an email to someone at Nintendo, probably nothing will come of it, but ya never know."
*blushes* Aww shucks, I doubt the'd listen to a gamer telling them how to improve their gameplay, although if any game console developer would, I am starting to believe it would be Nintendo.
I mean how long have consoles had USB support but no drivers built into the core OS or game design to allow mouse/keyboard controls for FPS? I would buy the FPS genre on consoles if this was possible (and might for the Wii).
"Caveat: I run Trend Micro's Free Online Housecall Virus Scan occasionally and it's always clean."
You know I have had the opportunity twice to use this utility (helping others with virus/trojan problems)and from my experience it has issues, in both instances it found viruses but was unable to delete them or ended up crashing when it tried to, very frustrating since it can take up to 3 hours for the full scan.
Anyone else use trend micro with any good outcomes? Any hints for me?
Otherwise i'm tempted to just use AVG as a free alternative.
Slashdot Mirror
From the user manual of he 7000-8000 user guide (pdf) found on page 42:
11 Press F8 to save your configuration and reboot the system.
The rebuild will start within a few minutes of the 3ware driver
loading, once the operating system has booted.
The 3ware 7506 does not do hardware RAID by itself.
I have talked extensively with 3ware engineers and can assure you this is the case. They might have aprocessor on the card but it is using the CPU to do RAID calculations.
If you want to compare marketing blurbs with real life experience diagnosing and troubleshooting these products, then by all means go ahead, but saying I am spreading FUD is not informative.
You are confusing channels with controller ports. SATA raid cards have one driver per controller port but multiple ports on a "Channel".
Like I said, it DOES say in their documentation that it is hardware, they can SAY anything, the proof is that if you read further into the documentation, you will see that any initialization occurs 10 minutes AFTER the OS has booted.
The hardware RAID is just marketing BS, from years of supporting these cards I can definitely tell you they are NOT hardware based.
Yes you can "create" an array in the BIOS, will it be initialized or useable until the RAID driver has loaded into the OS? No.
I dunno about that, with U160 and U320 you would have to use at least 5 drives or more to max out the bandwidth that U160 provides and upwards of 8 or more for U320.
No RAID systems use one channel per drive, maybe you are thinking connector, in which case that would be SATA, and possibly IDE to maximize bandwidth.
Most RAID cards have more than one channel per card, but multiple connectors per channel (7-15 on SCSI, up to 12 that I have seen on SATA, and 2 per channel for IDE).
"Of course there are the companies that won't so much as touch software RAID (namely 3ware)"
Until the 9500 (and MAYBE 9000) series ALL of 3ware's offerings were software RAID. this is why you couldn't initalize a RAID array until the OS booted (and 10 minutes after that), it even says this in the manual.
I worked in tech support for a company that sold these for 2 years and talked with the 3ware techs quite extensively on the subject.
As a company they don't officially admit it, but from a technical standpoint it is obvious they only supported software RAID.
"Modern CPUs are very, very fast, and in many cases can calculate parity faster than dedicated controllers,"
Especially given the fact that most CPU usage is less than 18% when calcualting parity for RAID 5, so compare 18% of your CPU cost and see if it is worth it to lose that much over head (or buy the next higher model) OR pay 400+ for hardware RAID.
I'd say RAID 5 is the best solution for home backups, you have redundancy for disk failure and with monthly or even quarterly backups you should be fine. (who wants to spend 12 hours a week backing up to tape?).
"3ware card for a few hundred bucks "
The nice 3ware cards for 100 bucks are NOT hardware raid, they use the CPU to calculate the RAID, it might even say it is in the literature but working at company (tech support) who sells servers that use 3ware for 80% of it's business, I can definitely tell you this isn't the case.
You CAN get a hardware based 3ware card, but then you are looking at 400-500 bucks (+some for the battery backup unit).
Plus if you read the parent correctly, 4 300GB hard drives for 50 bucks totals 200 bucks, a "3ware card for a few hundred bucks " WOULD double the cost.
"Anybody charging less either goes out of business due to insufficient revenues, or forces his competitors to lower prices or fail. In the equilibrium state, all prices are nearly identical."
If this WAS true, then the oil companies could take a hit on their monthly/quarterly billion dollar profits to capture more of the market and force out their competition, like the Japanese did in the 70/80s with their cars.
But they don't because they are monopolies and have no reason to, they would only be competing with themselves.
""maximising shareholder value" is what businesses do, looking for bargains is what consumers do, the end result is "supply and demand""
Really? What it seems to work out to is "anything to make more money regardless of morals and integrity" is what businesses do, fighting as hard as we can to minimize the damage these corporations do to our health and environment while still trying to afford 5 dollars a pound for meat and 3.50 a gallon for gas is what consumers do, and the end result is "the strong preying on the weak with the permission of the government".
here ya go :)
:)
This is the one I was talking about
http://www.internetofthefuture.org/
but here is another gem
http://www.dontregulate.org/
Shoot, that is the wrong video.. oh well, sorry for the confusion, I have been looking trying to find the video I saw a week or so ago but I haven't had much luck. If I can find it I will rep-ly again with a link.
http://www.savetheinternet.com/
There are 2 other sites that host this misinformational video. If you watch it you'll see the "tubes" that the senator talks about.
I personally hate reading the escapist, I don't find it particularly entertaining and the way the articles are laid out is makes me feel like I am reading a gaming magazine, do I need 15 pages for an article that could be fit in one? oooh text on top and next to pictures, am I 3 years old and need to be placated with 3 lines of text and a 640x480 bitmap?
anyway, that's why I don't read articles by them submitted in slashdot, maybe this should have been a journal entry but i'm sure i'm not the only one who feels this way.
I will "miss out" on DX10, and i guess that's fine, but i'm not an early adopter, sheesh I was running 98SE (stable mind you) until mid 2003.
Making DX10 vista only is just a bad decision in my mind, I can see the advantages but they aren't enough to get me to early adopt, esp when the 3 year old rig i have now runs all of the latest games that are out and I understand XP enough to know the solution to any current driver/game/hardware problems. (and be IT support for the OS btw).
SO to sum up, the parent makes a great point, i think it has some interesting parallels with the HD blu-ray war going on right now, just not enough to justfy upgrading as soon as it comes out.
I think you would need Microsoft and DRM in the same sentence, but then also something ABOUT microsoft and DRM in the same sentence, preferably that the combination is bad. Which it is bad. No likey. Evil M$
*crosses fingers*
Cornwall. Goonhilly satellite station. on the Lizard peninsula.
Is the ministration of funny names next to the minister of funny walks?
Just curious...
Don't forget the R-type sticker...
They did question me, they asked where the dope was and what I was doing in that part of town.
Or are you saying that they wouldn't "falsely imprision" this man to ask him questions about his possible pedophilic tendencies? Have you ever watched COPS?!? The cuff go on THEN they inquire, not the other way around...
Oh, I was talking about PCs, try gamefly, you can try the games out and make up your own mind.. SS2 was not as good as the first installment, but mainly from a PC POV, the ps2 would more likely be a lot of fun, esp with co-op.
"got my screenname [used on Slashdot now too] from playing Quake on dialup, and P2P with another local kid."
:-P
I used to have the name Somebody in my quake days, i thought it was hilarious to go into the console and see the death messages:
"FragMaster was nailed by Somebody"
"Somebody rode Fragmaster's rocket"
Works just as well nowadays with SomeLlama, but a bit more humiliating when I kill someone
"Good stuff, having 10ms pings to most other college servers."
Oh man I hated you guys soooo much!!!! I couldn't afford an ISDN or 2 56k connections back then (you could use this special modem from Diamond MM that would aggregate 2 modem connections).
So I would kick everyone's butt except for those creeps with the sub 100 pings, zipping around with your rocket launchers, grabbing the pentagram of protection before I could.. arrgh!!
I remember thinking that once I had sub 250 pings i would kick anyone's butt, then when dsl was finally affordable CS was all the rage and I had another year of losing before i got some skills...
Bah.
"Me and a bunch of friends against a seemingly unstoppable horde of alien scum--that's what I want in a game."
Then checkout Starship Troopers, based off of the movie, it has Co-Op for most of the single player missions, endless waves of baddies and tons of guts to be spilled!
Also Serious Sam is great fun (the first 2 original versions or the newest sequel).
"I'd say the police have as much right as anyone else to question him (assuming no crime was committed). "WTF did you think you were doing?" sort of thing. Social pressure is an important part of the social glue that keeps society together."
You are SOOO right, this is why I am glad that the police stopped my vehicle, put me in handcuffs in the back of a police car and then searched my car thoroughly for 30 minutes while repeatedly asking me where "the dope was hidden".
Apparently (the cop told me) I was not supposed to be on that side of town and asked me what I was doing there (the answer, visiting a friend who lived in the neighborhood).
Luckily he let me off with a warning and made sure to let me know that "I owed him one for letting me go".
I'm glad we have police who are willing to go the extra mile and question people who don't behave the way the police believe they should behave, or visit places deemed "appropriate".
(true story).
"This said, this idea doesn't compansate for everything, like vertical sword blocks. You wouldn't want the camera doing lateral pans, or you'll most likely end up looking at the characters from underground."
:)
That's a good point, I guess what I would do is have the camera pan straight back at an upwards angle, but it most likely be pretty rare to be 100% at a right degree for this to not have some sort of circualr pan happening, but definitely something I hadn't thought of...
"Hell, send off an email to someone at Nintendo, probably nothing will come of it, but ya never know."
*blushes* Aww shucks, I doubt the'd listen to a gamer telling them how to improve their gameplay, although if any game console developer would, I am starting to believe it would be Nintendo.
I mean how long have consoles had USB support but no drivers built into the core OS or game design to allow mouse/keyboard controls for FPS? I would buy the FPS genre on consoles if this was possible (and might for the Wii).
Maybe i'll give it a shot
"Caveat: I run Trend Micro's Free Online Housecall Virus Scan occasionally and it's always clean."
You know I have had the opportunity twice to use this utility (helping others with virus/trojan problems)and from my experience it has issues, in both instances it found viruses but was unable to delete them or ended up crashing when it tried to, very frustrating since it can take up to 3 hours for the full scan.
Anyone else use trend micro with any good outcomes? Any hints for me?
Otherwise i'm tempted to just use AVG as a free alternative.