Good people make evil decisions to make money because they know they will not be held responsible for them. The corporation is the greatest intrument for shirking personal responsibility ever invented.
"Riiiight. Just as some lowly developer is responsible for (or has any influence on) an upper level manager who is bullying vendors and/or competitors with next-to-illegal means."
The lowly programmer works hard every day earning MS money. MS then takes this money and spend it in evil ways. Don't tell me the lowly programmer didn't help at all.
"Regardless, I don't understand why the market can't solve this problem"
If the market could have solved this problem it would have. Through history whenever minimum wages were left to the market the rich ended up owning the poor.
"Who's to say if I'm licensed or not? You don't know my qualifications nor do you know the qualifications of anyone else here."
In what state do you have to be licenses to program or to maintain a network? NONE. In what state do you have to be licenses to pull wire and hook it up to a fusebox? ALL. I am pretty sure you are not licensed.
"Secondly, unions do a lot of their own qualifications -- its how they keep their bargaining chips in place."
Do they have to pass state or federal tests to practise? Do their work gets inspected by state and federal officials? Do you?
"So yeah, I'm proud to say there are little differences between what I do and what a plumber does -- we both are professionals."
Great. A society without proper plumbing is nowhere I'd want to live. I am in no way denigrating the lumbers who as I have said before are actual professionals who have to get certified before they can practise. Unlike your typical geek. Oddly enough these days the plumber actually makes more money then your average geek too. Maybe that's due to them being unioninized.
"So is *every* American responsible for President Cheney and his puppets and their personal war^h^h^h^h power grab? (hears resounding yes from international community)"
Yes because we elected him and he is acting in our name. It looks like we are about to re-elect him too which makes us doubly responsible.
"Is every German alive during WWII responsible for Hitler and his war?"
Yes because he got into power by democratic means.
"Is every Muslim responsible for the Taliban?"
No because the taliban was only in afghanistan and got into power by military means. They were not elected. Oh and the afghans in the north had a protracted war against them and they are muslims too.
"Is every French/English/Belgan responsible for atrocities in colonial Africa (during that time, which wasn't so long ago) and the aftermath they're still dealing with now?"
If the atrocities were committed by their government and they elected those governments then yes.
"Is every Russian (or former memeber of the Soviet Union) responsible for Stalin?"
No because it's not a democracy the people had no say.
"Their Afghanistan?"
Same as above.
"Is every Catholic responsible for pedophile priests?"
Nobody voted for the priests did they?
"Is every Christian responsible for Jerry Falwell?"
Same as the taliban.
"Is every Japanese responsible for Pearl Harbor?"
Kind of. Japan was a monarchy but pretty much all the japanese supported the army. They are not only responsible for perl harbor but also responsible for the atrocities committed by their soldiers in east asia.
"Atrocities in occupied China?"
Still not a democracy.
"Is every Canadian responsible for Celine Dion? (hears resounding yes from international community)"
Did anybody vote for her?
"Just be careful in overly broad assiging of blame.If you aren't, then you're probably guilty and should be executed along with the rest of us."
I am sad to say you are a typical american. You can only see the world in black or white. In your feeble brain there is only 100% blame and 0% blame. Unless you are ssigned 100% of the blame then you must be blameless. The real world does not work like that.
In your overly simplistic view the only person shouldering the blame for dropping the atomic bomb was the shlub who pushed the button. The pilot who flew the plane, the navigator that targetted the city, the general that gave the order, the president who made the decision and the people who voted for that president are all blame free and float happily in heaven while the poor bombodier burns in hell.
"However the bottom-of-the-rang programmers are not to 'blame' if someone higher up makes some immoral decision."
I disagree. The people in the bottom rung work to earn the company money thereby enabling the decision makers. They must shoulder some of the blame.
"I also don't consider every American 'guilty' for the fact that they're American, even if all Americans might be to some degree benefiting from some very immoral government policies worldwide (there go my karma points.... but take the CIA overthrowing the government in Guatemala to defend US business interests)."
Again I disagree. We are a democracy and thereby have voted in the people who act in our name. We very much are the blame for everything our govt does. BTW we are responsible for our countries actions much more then Iraqis were resposible for Saddam because they were not a democracy.
" Sure, the benefit to the average American is in such cases very tenuous, but so is the benefit of Microsofts 'evil' ways to the average Microsoft employee, so the analogy holds I would say."
Wow that's shocking. You are saying that prices increased even though minimum wage stayed the same and you had to raise minimum wage in order to keep up. That seems to be the opposite of what the parent was saying which was the rasing the miminum wage actually caused prices to rise.
So apparently the correlation of the inflation and minimum wage is actually opposite of what the grandparent was saying.
Presumably the people in engineering schools are the smartest sliver of the population. The Americans in engineering school are not "average" they are the cream of the crop and have the SAT scores to prove it. SO I don't buy your premise that I am somehow comparing average americans to the best chinese.
It's not just brains either. Like you said it's also cultural. The foreign students work harder and Americans students party harder.
"It's only the company as a whole that's done anything truly wrong."
Huh? How did the company do the wrong things without the humans that work for the company?
Everybody who works for MS has to shoulder the blame/credit for everything MS does. They all help whether directly or indirectly. You don't get a pass just because you are nice guy, your salary is what it is because your company is an asshole and the people who run your company are immoral bastards.
People don't go to harvard or yale because it offers a superior education they go there because it gives them an oopportunity to hook up with other people who come from powerful and wealthy families.
I was watching the Howard Stern show one day and he had a famous model on. He asked the model "what is in the center of the solar system". She did not know the answer. He then asked her "what school did you go to?" and she said "harvard".
You think she got into Harvard because she was smart and wanted a good education or because she was a rich model by the time she was 18?
BTW when Ken Lay was testifying in front of congress the same type of thing happened. A congresperson asked him about some accounting thing and he said he didn't know the answer. The conversation went something like this.
How can you not know that? It's a basic accounting procedure
One day some country will enslave an unpopular minority and sell that labor to corporations for the cheapest price possible. They will become very successful which will spur other countries to do the same. Eventually all products manufactured will be created with slave labor.
Go to any engineering school and you'll find that the people with the highest GPAs are chinese, arab, hindu or what have you. The fact of the matter is that these immigrants are both smarter and work harder then then the US citizens going to the same school.
The whole idea that somehow unskilled positions will be outsourced so that the US will have the skilled positions is just ridiculus.
For the exact reasons you have listed walmart has become the outlet mall for china. sure you saves 5 cents on toilet paper but a bunch of people lost their jobs.
First of all what makes you think you are a professioinal? Traditionally professionals have been licensed by the state. People like doctors, lawyers, professional engineers etc have to pass rigorous tests before they can practise their profession.
You are just a laborer like any other. There is no significant difference between you and a plumber except for the fact that the plumber probably needs some sort of a license and bonding.
Secondly professionals have the most powerful unions in the country. It's just that they call themselves unions, they prefer the term "association". The AMA and the Bar association regularly sit down with the president, congress and your governor office and write down legislation which then gets dutifully passed by your so called representitive.
That's not really true is it. Just because you are on strike that does not mean the email server magically stops working or the router magically stops routing.
Trust me you are just as disposable as the steel worker. MS even touts that on their TCO studies. They say you can grab just anybody off the street to run exhcange. You don't need an expensive sysadmin.
Re:Removing motivation to create innovative IP
on
Is IP Property?
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· Score: 1
That's nonsense. People have been writing songs forever. Other people have been learning those songs and passing them on generation after generation until somebody invented copyright. Now it's illegal for you to perform somebody elses song. Imagine that. It's illegal for you to sing a song you heard someplace. How fucked is that?
It may not have saved the steel industry but then again while the industry was alive the workers were paid pretty good. Who's to say the steel industry would have been saved if they paid everybody minimum wage? Even minimum wage can't compete with chinese labor. Unless of course you wanted the steel industry to pay two dollars a day like the chinese workers get.
"Somehow the idea of people losing jobs because of it, as well as paying higher prices (which hurts most those very people the law is supposed to help) doesn't seem to cross their minds."
Mmmm. That's an interesting theory. Luckily it's also very easy to test. Throught the last couple of decades the minimum wage has been raised quite a few times. According to your theory after each raise in minimum wage there should be an increase in unemployment and an increase in inflation.
Well I have been alive for the last couple of decades and I certainly don't remember such a corrolation so perhaps the economy is more complex then your theory suggests. Why don't you do some research and see what happened to the economy after minimum wages were raised. You might find the results surprising.
Re:Removing motivation to create innovative IP
on
Is IP Property?
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· Score: 1
I just don't buy your premise that solutions to the worlds medical problems would never be created unless there was IP.
I could very easily argue that IP has done more harm then good.
Re:A Conservative is a Liberal who got 0wned
on
Is IP Property?
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· Score: 1
He turned a surplus into a deficit. Does it matter if it's the biggest or the second biggest deficit in terms of % of GDP?
RE foreign policy: It's may be fascist but it is in no way conservative. No real conservative approves of intervention on this scale around the globe. Most conservatives believe that the US military should be used to protect the homeland not give other people freedom from their local tyrant.
RE taxes:. It's meaningless to cut taxes without also cutting spending. If you cut taxes and increase spending then you are simply fiscally irresponsible. Certainly not a conservative value.
"When was the last time you agreed 100% with anyone?"
Never but why is that important. If small govt, free trade, sanctity of the constitution and fiscal responsibility are important to you then you should not vote for George Bush.
If making sure that homosexuals never marry by amending the most scared document of our nation, and endless war on terrorism and occupation of foreign countries is important to you then you should vote for George Bush.
Slashdot Mirror
Good people make evil decisions to make money because they know they will not be held responsible for them. The corporation is the greatest intrument for shirking personal responsibility ever invented.
"Riiiight. Just as some lowly developer is responsible for (or has any influence on) an upper level manager who is bullying vendors and/or competitors with next-to-illegal means."
The lowly programmer works hard every day earning MS money. MS then takes this money and spend it in evil ways. Don't tell me the lowly programmer didn't help at all.
The problem is that most middle to lower level managers don't have the power to hand out raises or fire people.
"Regardless, I don't understand why the market can't solve this problem"
If the market could have solved this problem it would have. Through history whenever minimum wages were left to the market the rich ended up owning the poor.
You have to prove that the raise in minimum wage came first. The minimum wage could have been raised to counteract the weaking dollar.
Unless she will actually be sucking I get tired of her playing the same character over and over again.
Let me know if she is going to be naked most of the time, then it'll make seeing her character worthwile.
So does increasing the minimum wage cause unemployment and inflation or not? You seem to be saying not.
"Who's to say if I'm licensed or not? You don't know my qualifications nor do you know the qualifications of anyone else here."
In what state do you have to be licenses to program or to maintain a network? NONE. In what state do you have to be licenses to pull wire and hook it up to a fusebox? ALL. I am pretty sure you are not licensed.
"Secondly, unions do a lot of their own qualifications -- its how they keep their bargaining chips in place."
Do they have to pass state or federal tests to practise? Do their work gets inspected by state and federal officials? Do you?
"So yeah, I'm proud to say there are little differences between what I do and what a plumber does -- we both are professionals."
Great. A society without proper plumbing is nowhere I'd want to live. I am in no way denigrating the lumbers who as I have said before are actual professionals who have to get certified before they can practise. Unlike your typical geek. Oddly enough these days the plumber actually makes more money then your average geek too. Maybe that's due to them being unioninized.
"So is *every* American responsible for President Cheney and his puppets and their personal war^h^h^h^h power grab? (hears resounding yes from international community)"
Yes because we elected him and he is acting in our name. It looks like we are about to re-elect him too which makes us doubly responsible.
"Is every German alive during WWII responsible for Hitler and his war?"
Yes because he got into power by democratic means.
"Is every Muslim responsible for the Taliban?"
No because the taliban was only in afghanistan and got into power by military means. They were not elected. Oh and the afghans in the north had a protracted war against them and they are muslims too.
"Is every French/English/Belgan responsible for atrocities in colonial Africa (during that time, which wasn't so long ago) and the aftermath they're still dealing with now?"
If the atrocities were committed by their government and they elected those governments then yes.
"Is every Russian (or former memeber of the Soviet Union) responsible for Stalin?"
No because it's not a democracy the people had no say.
"Their Afghanistan?"
Same as above.
"Is every Catholic responsible for pedophile priests?"
Nobody voted for the priests did they?
"Is every Christian responsible for Jerry Falwell?"
Same as the taliban.
"Is every Japanese responsible for Pearl Harbor?"
Kind of. Japan was a monarchy but pretty much all the japanese supported the army. They are not only responsible for perl harbor but also responsible for the atrocities committed by their soldiers in east asia.
"Atrocities in occupied China?"
Still not a democracy.
"Is every Canadian responsible for Celine Dion? (hears resounding yes from international community)"
Did anybody vote for her?
"Just be careful in overly broad assiging of blame.If you aren't, then you're probably guilty and should be executed along with the rest of us."
I am sad to say you are a typical american. You can only see the world in black or white. In your feeble brain there is only 100% blame and 0% blame. Unless you are ssigned 100% of the blame then you must be blameless. The real world does not work like that.
In your overly simplistic view the only person shouldering the blame for dropping the atomic bomb was the shlub who pushed the button. The pilot who flew the plane, the navigator that targetted the city, the general that gave the order, the president who made the decision and the people who voted for that president are all blame free and float happily in heaven while the poor bombodier burns in hell.
"However the bottom-of-the-rang programmers are not to 'blame' if someone higher up makes some immoral decision."
.... but take the CIA overthrowing the government in Guatemala to defend US business interests)."
I disagree. The people in the bottom rung work to earn the company money thereby enabling the decision makers. They must shoulder some of the blame.
"I also don't consider every American 'guilty' for the fact that they're American, even if all Americans might be to some degree benefiting from some very immoral government policies worldwide (there go my karma points
Again I disagree. We are a democracy and thereby have voted in the people who act in our name. We very much are the blame for everything our govt does. BTW we are responsible for our countries actions much more then Iraqis were resposible for Saddam because they were not a democracy.
" Sure, the benefit to the average American is in such cases very tenuous, but so is the benefit of Microsofts 'evil' ways to the average Microsoft employee, so the analogy holds I would say."
I'd say that your salary was ample benefit.
Again
Wow that's shocking. You are saying that prices increased even though minimum wage stayed the same and you had to raise minimum wage in order to keep up. That seems to be the opposite of what the parent was saying which was the rasing the miminum wage actually caused prices to rise.
So apparently the correlation of the inflation and minimum wage is actually opposite of what the grandparent was saying.
Presumably the people in engineering schools are the smartest sliver of the population. The Americans in engineering school are not "average" they are the cream of the crop and have the SAT scores to prove it. SO I don't buy your premise that I am somehow comparing average americans to the best chinese.
It's not just brains either. Like you said it's also cultural. The foreign students work harder and Americans students party harder.
MS has entered the Market. This means there will only be one in a few years unless the opposition acts now to counteract a 50 billion dollar warchest.
"It's only the company as a whole that's done anything truly wrong."
Huh? How did the company do the wrong things without the humans that work for the company?
Everybody who works for MS has to shoulder the blame/credit for everything MS does. They all help whether directly or indirectly. You don't get a pass just because you are nice guy, your salary is what it is because your company is an asshole and the people who run your company are immoral bastards.
People don't go to harvard or yale because it offers a superior education they go there because it gives them an oopportunity to hook up with other people who come from powerful and wealthy families.
I was watching the Howard Stern show one day and he had a famous model on. He asked the model "what is in the center of the solar system". She did not know the answer. He then asked her "what school did you go to?" and she said "harvard".
You think she got into Harvard because she was smart and wanted a good education or because she was a rich model by the time she was 18?
BTW when Ken Lay was testifying in front of congress the same type of thing happened. A congresperson asked him about some accounting thing and he said he didn't know the answer. The conversation went something like this.
How can you not know that? It's a basic accounting procedure
I just don't know.
Did you goto collage?
Yes
What was your degree.
I have an MBA
Where did you get that MBA?
Harvard business school
One day some country will enslave an unpopular minority and sell that labor to corporations for the cheapest price possible. They will become very successful which will spur other countries to do the same. Eventually all products manufactured will be created with slave labor.
It's the natural outcome of capitalism.
Go to any engineering school and you'll find that the people with the highest GPAs are chinese, arab, hindu or what have you. The fact of the matter is that these immigrants are both smarter and work harder then then the US citizens going to the same school.
The whole idea that somehow unskilled positions will be outsourced so that the US will have the skilled positions is just ridiculus.
For the exact reasons you have listed walmart has become the outlet mall for china. sure you saves 5 cents on toilet paper but a bunch of people lost their jobs.
First of all what makes you think you are a professioinal? Traditionally professionals have been licensed by the state. People like doctors, lawyers, professional engineers etc have to pass rigorous tests before they can practise their profession.
You are just a laborer like any other. There is no significant difference between you and a plumber except for the fact that the plumber probably needs some sort of a license and bonding.
Secondly professionals have the most powerful unions in the country. It's just that they call themselves unions, they prefer the term "association". The AMA and the Bar association regularly sit down with the president, congress and your governor office and write down legislation which then gets dutifully passed by your so called representitive.
That's not really true is it. Just because you are on strike that does not mean the email server magically stops working or the router magically stops routing.
Trust me you are just as disposable as the steel worker. MS even touts that on their TCO studies. They say you can grab just anybody off the street to run exhcange. You don't need an expensive sysadmin.
That's nonsense. People have been writing songs forever. Other people have been learning those songs and passing them on generation after generation until somebody invented copyright. Now it's illegal for you to perform somebody elses song. Imagine that. It's illegal for you to sing a song you heard someplace. How fucked is that?
It may not have saved the steel industry but then again while the industry was alive the workers were paid pretty good. Who's to say the steel industry would have been saved if they paid everybody minimum wage? Even minimum wage can't compete with chinese labor. Unless of course you wanted the steel industry to pay two dollars a day like the chinese workers get.
"Somehow the idea of people losing jobs because of it, as well as paying higher prices (which hurts most those very people the law is supposed to help) doesn't seem to cross their minds."
Mmmm. That's an interesting theory. Luckily it's also very easy to test. Throught the last couple of decades the minimum wage has been raised quite a few times. According to your theory after each raise in minimum wage there should be an increase in unemployment and an increase in inflation.
Well I have been alive for the last couple of decades and I certainly don't remember such a corrolation so perhaps the economy is more complex then your theory suggests. Why don't you do some research and see what happened to the economy after minimum wages were raised. You might find the results surprising.
I just don't buy your premise that solutions to the worlds medical problems would never be created unless there was IP.
I could very easily argue that IP has done more harm then good.
He turned a surplus into a deficit. Does it matter if it's the biggest or the second biggest deficit in terms of % of GDP?
RE foreign policy: It's may be fascist but it is in no way conservative. No real conservative approves of intervention on this scale around the globe. Most conservatives believe that the US military should be used to protect the homeland not give other people freedom from their local tyrant.
RE taxes:. It's meaningless to cut taxes without also cutting spending. If you cut taxes and increase spending then you are simply fiscally irresponsible. Certainly not a conservative value.
"When was the last time you agreed 100% with anyone?"
Never but why is that important. If small govt, free trade, sanctity of the constitution and fiscal responsibility are important to you then you should not vote for George Bush.
If making sure that homosexuals never marry by amending the most scared document of our nation, and endless war on terrorism and occupation of foreign countries is important to you then you should vote for George Bush.