" Yeah, apt-get, but then what happens when apt-get goes wrong and there's no support contract?"
First of all if you are using stable (and a corporation should) the chances of apt get going wrong are just about null.
Secondly you could buy a support contract. Just like you could buy a support contract from MS.
Finally this is OSS. You can get support even though you didn't buy it. The debian community is especially clueful and helpful. Chances are you'll get better support for free then the first or second level droid at your other company. In most cases you should solve your problem in less time then it would take to escalate it with MS.
"new one has no support contract, and the new one goes wrong, it's all YOUR FAULT. If you use the existing system, with a support contract, and it goes wrong, it's the fault of the contractors, or whoever installed it, not you."
Maybe where you work you can simply say "it's Microsoft's fault" and go home. Not where I work. Your ass is on the line when the server goes down. No ifs, ands or buts about it.
There was a song by the Gang of Four in the "ye olde days" which went. The problem of leisure, what to do for pleasure. In this day and age entertainment is more important then finding primes, dicovering intelligent life forms, or curing disease for 90+ percent of the western world.
BTW does anybody know if "entertainment" is still in print?
"Clinton made the military a 'not nice' place to be. Failed campains (Somalia) enforced this."
As opposed to now where the military is much more fun? Yea! you get to go to iraq in august and get blown up by car bombs. Much more fun yes siree bob!
Our company installed sharepoint. Nobody seems to like it very much.
Re:It ends when they get some tech folks in there
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When you buy a coke some of the money for that coke goes to the local bottler who then pays local taxes. Most of the money goes to the coca cola headquarters and the corporation pays US taxes. Not only that but the corporation then pays each of the political parties in order to influence them.
So yes in a very real way you buying a coke does indeed fund the bombing of iraq.
"And like any other country when America messes up, people complain about it. You don't like it? stop listening to them."
You missed my point. I'll state it again.
Complaining (or what the americans like to call bitching and moaning) will do no good. You can complain all you like but George W does not give a flying fuck about what the rest of the world thinks. He only listens to two things. God and corporate america. If ten percent of europe takes the streets and protests GW will not change policy. If the CEO of coke calls up and complains that his european profits are down by 10% then he will change his policy.
The question is this. Do you merely want to voice your dissatisfaction or do you actually want the US to change it's policy? If you want to effect change then you MUST start boycotting US goods. All of it. Stop buying US music, US food, US drinks, US clothes, US movies, US everything. People here make fun of you if they see protesters with US company logos on clothes.
"Bzzzt. Wrong. The Palestinian authority have already called for the complete destruction of Israel. How would building a wall according to "Internation Standards" do anygood to the Palestinians who don't give a shit anyways?"
If there was a wall and no arabs were allowed to go into israel how would they destroy israel? How can the hapless palestenians authority hope to ever defeat one of the most powerful armies on the planet?
""There is no moral justification for the Palestinians to conduct terrorism"."
But there is moral justification. People who are living occupation have the right to fight to try and gain their freedom. That's the difference here.
"And regrading the wall, according to the Palestinians, the wall would start at the Mediterranean sea, with Israel not even existing as a country."
Just build the wall where the UN says the border of Israel is. Keep out all arabs and voila no more terrorists attacks. Why is that so hard to understand? Just wall yourself in and keep out the arabs. That is what they are doing anyway just do it according to international law.
"You need the right tool for the job."
What the fuck? Doesn't israel have f-15s, cruise missiles, helicopters up the wazoo? If it does not have enough planes the US would be happy to lend them a few hundred.
There is no way in hell any arab country can take on israel. Ever. Ariel Sharon can kill every single arab on the face of the planet tommorow if he wants. There is nothing anybody can do to stop him. Nothing.
Say it with me. Israel is an immoral country conducting an immoral, illegal and unnecessary occupation of 3+ million human beings. The only historically recent precedent for such despicable behavior by a country is South Africa and you saw how long that lasted. Eventually this occupation will corrupt the jewish soul. Eventually your lame ass rationalizations will eat you from the inside out. It's wrong to torture people, it's wrong to deny them basic human rights, it's wrong to kill them. it's just wrong and before you say it two wrong don't make a right.
And BTW please stop giving me bogus links from jewish organizations. I would not trust any numbers from them as farther then I could throw an elephant. As this converstaion shows jews are incabable of perceiving the evil deeds committed by Israel. To them any action is justified and they can find plenty of bogus reasons like "they never had a country in the first place" and "all of the arab countires have less money then spain" or some shit.
Re:It ends when they get some tech folks in there
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"There's a big difference between not liking your foreign policy and not liking your culture."
As long as you keep buying our products you fund our foreign policy.
Re:It ends when they get some tech folks in there
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"Although you have to give us some credit, when the world needs us we are there"
Really? The following people need our help desparately.
Liberians, Somalians, Sudanese, Chechnians, Palestenians, North koreans, Chinese, taiwanese, and billions more. Only if they had something we wanted...
Re:It ends when they get some tech folks in there
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"Why?"
Why? Let me explain to you why.
If ten million people take to the streets and protest US foreign policy GW does not give a flying fuck. If the CEO of pepsi calls up GW because his european profits are down by 10% you can bet your ass GW cares.
Re:It ends when they get some tech folks in there
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"I predict that only until the U.S. itself becomes irrelevant, economically, nothing here will change."
And the US will not become irrelevant until the rest of the world stops buying pepsi, nike and britney spears CDs.
it just amazes me that millions of people protest US foreign policy but go see an americna movie or buy american cigarettes.
"Yes, true. But everytime they pull out, the terrorist attacks get worse. You fail to give any creedance to the threat that Isreal faces."
They need to pull out period. Those people deserve freedom just as much as ony other people on the planet. If they don't want terrorists they can seal their borders. They can build a damned wall just like they are doing now but on their official borders. They can prevent palestenians from entering their country. The occupation of palestine is illegal and immoral.
"hile the Israelis have tried to avoid them and to defend themselves by going after the terrorists."
If they are trying to avoid civillians then they are the most inept force on the face of the planet. They kill thousands of them every year.
The problem with you religious fanatics is that you can't see past your own ideology. To you israel can do no wrong. The thousands of dead palestenians are not human beings so they don't count. The fact that there are over 3 million people living under israeli occupation in the most brutal matter is all justified because they never had a country in the first place or because of something it says in the bible.
Israel needs to pull out. It's the only moraly and legally acceptable solution. It needs to stop killing thousands of civillians a year. It needs to stop building settlements, it needs to stop taking other peoples property, it needs to stop torturing people, it needs to join the rest of the civilized world.
All this bullshit about "isreal needs to defend itself" has got to go. Israel is the third largest nuclear power in the world. It has the best armed forces int he middle east. It is immune from international law. It can completely anhilate any country it wants and regularly bombs other countries like syria and lebanon with no worries about retaliation. Since the US would completely turn any country that dared to attack israel into parking lot overnight it is for all practical purposes the most powerful country on the planet.
There is no need to torture the palestenians, there in no need for apartheid. Israel can and should act like any other civilized country. Either pull out or assimilate. Either make these people your citizens or get out.
Context means everything. Your sense of context is warped. You think that it's OK to kill palestenians because they didn't officially have a country I don't.
"I am trying to decide if you are either anti-semetic or are just plain ignorant."
i think it goes without saying that anybody who critizes israel is anti semitic. Of course technically there are more semitic palestenians then semitic jews but what the hell the only semites that count are the ones that live in israel.
"Who are the aggressors? Israelis or Arabs (aka "Palenstinians")"
Israelis. They occupy the west bank and the gaza strip. This occupation is illegal according to the UN and the international laws.
"Do you honestly think that Israel deliberately targets innocent women and children?"
Yes I do. They think that by making the palestenians suffer they can get them to stop resisting the occupation. They want to subjugate the palestenians by breaking them. They believe that the best way to break them is by torturing them in every way possible including killing their children.
You keep dancing around the issue, making up excuses and misdirecting all the while ignoring the real issue.
Right now, this very minute there are over 3 million human beings living under israeli rule. Peple who are being killed, tortured, humiliated, living in abject poverty and despair.
You have made a lot of excuses for this dispicable rule of the isralies. Basically your arguments are scattered and don't make any sense. Does the fact that the palestenians didn't officially have a country mean that the israelis get to torture them? Does the fact that the GDP of all of islam is smaller then spains mean it's OK for israel to deny human rights to palestenians? Does the fact that people immigrated illegally mean Israel gets to drop bombs into crowded citites?
Not one thing you have said provides justification for apartheid. How many children did the Israeli army kill last year? What was the justification for it?
Chances are the MS team found the bug and fixed it. Of course they never contributed their code back but then again the MIT license does not force them to.
So let me get this straight. Your arguments are that.
1) The entire west bank and gaza stip was empty before israel took over the land. There was nobody living there.
2) If you see some empty land in which nobody is living you can take it, build housing on it and declare it to be a part of your country.
3) because the palestenians did not officially have a nation before it's OK to torture them, to kill them, to humiliate them and to deny them any human rights whatsoever.
4) If people illegally immigrate to a place then it's OK to kill them.
"Nelson Mandela and his ties to the communist party:"
Again. In what way does this negate his knowledge of apartheid?
"You know, if you would have read the article you would have learned that the place was practically empty. VIRTUALLY EMPTY. GOT IT Forest?"
Bullshit. People were living there. This is something the israelis tell themselves to sleep better. It somehow justifies the taking of land from other people.
What the fuck is wrong with you? Do you honestly believe that the entire west bank and gaza strip was empty until Israel moved in? There was nothing but a forrest that did not belong to anybody? What the fuck kind of an insane argument is that?
Most of Montana is a forrest too. There are hundreds of thousands of acres where nobody is living. It's all empty. Does that make it OK for canadians to build settlements there? Of course not. Just because some land is empty that does not mean you get to build houses on it.
"I am not saying that everything the Israelis are doing is right."
really? I want to hear you say one thing that the israelis are doing wrong. Go ahead say that it's despicable to drop bombs on crowded cities. Say that it's morally reprehensible to have an official state policy of torture. Say that it's wrong to round up thousands of people and haul them off to jail with no charges or attorneys. Go ahead say it. I dare you.
"But you can't say that the Palestinians have right to the land."
That's not me saying that, it's the UN, the United States and the rest of the world. The west bank and the gaza strip are occupied terratories. Israel is occupying land that belonged to other people. They are building settlements on other peoples property. Both the UN and the US have asked repeatedly for israel to stop doing that but they don't.
"You Nelson Mandela, the one associated with his local communist party? OK."
LOL. OK so Nelson Mandela is a communist *snicker*. Ok so I guess that means he knows nothing about apartheid right?
"You talk of "Palestinians" like they were a nation prior to the Israeli state being formed."
Wow so they didn't officially have a nation. I guess that makes it perfectly OK to kill them and take away land that has belonged to them for generations. Since they never officially have a nation I guess that also means it's perfectly OK to round them up and torture them once in a while too. Since they are a nationless people it's perfectly OK to put them in reservations, build fences around them, take away their water and deny them any human rights whatsoever.
I see it clearly now. The morality of it all is perfect. You can do whatever you want to people as long as they did not officially exist as a nation.
Is that in the talmud someplace? If so let me know the passage, I want to bookmark it.
I recently upgraded WMP to version 9 because the old one kept crashing on me. As far as I can tell it's just a program to deliver advertising to me that just happens to play videos too.
IN any case it didn't cure the crashing problem so off it goes, I just hope I can uninstall it all the way.
Wow. I guess that proves your point once and for all. Do you know who called the palestenian stiuation apartheid? It was Nelson Mandella. I think I'll take his word over yours. I think he probably knows a thing or two about apartheid.
"Apples and Oranges. You can't compare history of the U.S. to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict."
Really? Why not?
"There are over 1.5 million muslims living IN Israel, working in Israel."
Yes there are. Those arabs living in israel don't have the same rights are the jews living in israel. For example there are numerous "jewish only" neighborhoods where arabs are not allowed to live.
Of course that's irrelevent to this discussion. There are 3.5 million palestenians living under israeli occupation who have no rights at all. They are living under apartheid.
Slashdot Mirror
" Yeah, apt-get, but then what happens when apt-get goes wrong and there's no support contract?"
First of all if you are using stable (and a corporation should) the chances of apt get going wrong are just about null.
Secondly you could buy a support contract. Just like you could buy a support contract from MS.
Finally this is OSS. You can get support even though you didn't buy it. The debian community is especially clueful and helpful. Chances are you'll get better support for free then the first or second level droid at your other company. In most cases you should solve your problem in less time then it would take to escalate it with MS.
"new one has no support contract, and the new one goes wrong, it's all YOUR FAULT. If you use the existing system, with a support contract, and it goes wrong, it's the fault of the contractors, or whoever installed it, not you."
Maybe where you work you can simply say "it's Microsoft's fault" and go home. Not where I work. Your ass is on the line when the server goes down. No ifs, ands or buts about it.
There was a song by the Gang of Four in the "ye olde days" which went. The problem of leisure, what to do for pleasure. In this day and age entertainment is more important then finding primes, dicovering intelligent life forms, or curing disease for 90+ percent of the western world. BTW does anybody know if "entertainment" is still in print?
"Clinton made the military a 'not nice' place to be. Failed campains (Somalia) enforced this."
As opposed to now where the military is much more fun? Yea! you get to go to iraq in august and get blown up by car bombs. Much more fun yes siree bob!
NY times twice as far from the center as Fox? LOL. I bet not even the person who wrote that actually believes it.
Wasn't there a study done a while back that showed that Fox viewers were the most misinformed?
Our company installed sharepoint. Nobody seems to like it very much.
When you buy a coke some of the money for that coke goes to the local bottler who then pays local taxes. Most of the money goes to the coca cola headquarters and the corporation pays US taxes. Not only that but the corporation then pays each of the political parties in order to influence them.
So yes in a very real way you buying a coke does indeed fund the bombing of iraq.
"And like any other country when America messes up, people complain about it. You don't like it? stop listening to them."
You missed my point. I'll state it again.
Complaining (or what the americans like to call bitching and moaning) will do no good. You can complain all you like but George W does not give a flying fuck about what the rest of the world thinks. He only listens to two things. God and corporate america. If ten percent of europe takes the streets and protests GW will not change policy. If the CEO of coke calls up and complains that his european profits are down by 10% then he will change his policy.
The question is this. Do you merely want to voice your dissatisfaction or do you actually want the US to change it's policy? If you want to effect change then you MUST start boycotting US goods. All of it. Stop buying US music, US food, US drinks, US clothes, US movies, US everything. People here make fun of you if they see protesters with US company logos on clothes.
"Bzzzt. Wrong. The Palestinian authority have already called for the complete destruction of Israel. How would building a wall according to "Internation Standards" do anygood to the Palestinians who don't give a shit anyways?"
If there was a wall and no arabs were allowed to go into israel how would they destroy israel? How can the hapless palestenians authority hope to ever defeat one of the most powerful armies on the planet?
""There is no moral justification for the Palestinians to conduct terrorism"."
But there is moral justification. People who are living occupation have the right to fight to try and gain their freedom. That's the difference here.
"And regrading the wall, according to the Palestinians, the wall would start at the Mediterranean sea, with Israel not even existing as a country."
Just build the wall where the UN says the border of Israel is. Keep out all arabs and voila no more terrorists attacks. Why is that so hard to understand? Just wall yourself in and keep out the arabs. That is what they are doing anyway just do it according to international law.
"You need the right tool for the job."
What the fuck? Doesn't israel have f-15s, cruise missiles, helicopters up the wazoo? If it does not have enough planes the US would be happy to lend them a few hundred.
There is no way in hell any arab country can take on israel. Ever. Ariel Sharon can kill every single arab on the face of the planet tommorow if he wants. There is nothing anybody can do to stop him. Nothing.
Say it with me. Israel is an immoral country conducting an immoral, illegal and unnecessary occupation of 3+ million human beings. The only historically recent precedent for such despicable behavior by a country is South Africa and you saw how long that lasted. Eventually this occupation will corrupt the jewish soul. Eventually your lame ass rationalizations will eat you from the inside out. It's wrong to torture people, it's wrong to deny them basic human rights, it's wrong to kill them. it's just wrong and before you say it two wrong don't make a right.
And BTW please stop giving me bogus links from jewish organizations. I would not trust any numbers from them as farther then I could throw an elephant. As this converstaion shows jews are incabable of perceiving the evil deeds committed by Israel. To them any action is justified and they can find plenty of bogus reasons like "they never had a country in the first place" and "all of the arab countires have less money then spain" or some shit.
"There's a big difference between not liking your foreign policy and not liking your culture."
As long as you keep buying our products you fund our foreign policy.
"Although you have to give us some credit, when the world needs us we are there"
Really? The following people need our help desparately.
Liberians, Somalians, Sudanese, Chechnians, Palestenians, North koreans, Chinese, taiwanese, and billions more. Only if they had something we wanted...
"Why?"
Why? Let me explain to you why.
If ten million people take to the streets and protest US foreign policy GW does not give a flying fuck. If the CEO of pepsi calls up GW because his european profits are down by 10% you can bet your ass GW cares.
"I predict that only until the U.S. itself becomes irrelevant, economically, nothing here will change."
And the US will not become irrelevant until the rest of the world stops buying pepsi, nike and britney spears CDs.
it just amazes me that millions of people protest US foreign policy but go see an americna movie or buy american cigarettes.
"Yes, true. But everytime they pull out, the terrorist attacks get worse. You fail to give any creedance to the threat that Isreal faces."
They need to pull out period. Those people deserve freedom just as much as ony other people on the planet. If they don't want terrorists they can seal their borders. They can build a damned wall just like they are doing now but on their official borders. They can prevent palestenians from entering their country. The occupation of palestine is illegal and immoral.
"hile the Israelis have tried to avoid them and to defend themselves by going after the terrorists."
If they are trying to avoid civillians then they are the most inept force on the face of the planet. They kill thousands of them every year.
The problem with you religious fanatics is that you can't see past your own ideology. To you israel can do no wrong. The thousands of dead palestenians are not human beings so they don't count. The fact that there are over 3 million people living under israeli occupation in the most brutal matter is all justified because they never had a country in the first place or because of something it says in the bible.
Israel needs to pull out. It's the only moraly and legally acceptable solution. It needs to stop killing thousands of civillians a year. It needs to stop building settlements, it needs to stop taking other peoples property, it needs to stop torturing people, it needs to join the rest of the civilized world.
All this bullshit about "isreal needs to defend itself" has got to go. Israel is the third largest nuclear power in the world. It has the best armed forces int he middle east. It is immune from international law. It can completely anhilate any country it wants and regularly bombs other countries like syria and lebanon with no worries about retaliation. Since the US would completely turn any country that dared to attack israel into parking lot overnight it is for all practical purposes the most powerful country on the planet.
There is no need to torture the palestenians, there in no need for apartheid. Israel can and should act like any other civilized country. Either pull out or assimilate. Either make these people your citizens or get out.
Does it have a DVD burner?
1) I said "if you are correct". If he was not correct then it goes without saying that my statement is moot.
2,3,4) The GPL would have prevented that.
"It's all moot, because most of us will never know"
The GPL would have prevented that.
"Apparently context means nothing to you. "
Context means everything. Your sense of context is warped. You think that it's OK to kill palestenians because they didn't officially have a country I don't.
"I am trying to decide if you are either anti-semetic or are just plain ignorant."
i think it goes without saying that anybody who critizes israel is anti semitic. Of course technically there are more semitic palestenians then semitic jews but what the hell the only semites that count are the ones that live in israel.
"Who are the aggressors? Israelis or Arabs (aka "Palenstinians")"
Israelis. They occupy the west bank and the gaza strip. This occupation is illegal according to the UN and the international laws.
"Do you honestly think that Israel deliberately targets innocent women and children?"
Yes I do. They think that by making the palestenians suffer they can get them to stop resisting the occupation. They want to subjugate the palestenians by breaking them. They believe that the best way to break them is by torturing them in every way possible including killing their children.
You keep dancing around the issue, making up excuses and misdirecting all the while ignoring the real issue.
Right now, this very minute there are over 3 million human beings living under israeli rule. Peple who are being killed, tortured, humiliated, living in abject poverty and despair.
You have made a lot of excuses for this dispicable rule of the isralies. Basically your arguments are scattered and don't make any sense. Does the fact that the palestenians didn't officially have a country mean that the israelis get to torture them? Does the fact that the GDP of all of islam is smaller then spains mean it's OK for israel to deny human rights to palestenians? Does the fact that people immigrated illegally mean Israel gets to drop bombs into crowded citites?
Not one thing you have said provides justification for apartheid. How many children did the Israeli army kill last year? What was the justification for it?
Yes but you'd think that they would have at least told the MIT guys about the problem they found and fixed.
If you are right them MS found the problem and fixed it but didn't give the bugfix back to the community.
The GPL would have prohibited that.
Chances are the MS team found the bug and fixed it. Of course they never contributed their code back but then again the MIT license does not force them to.
So let me get this straight. Your arguments are that.
1) The entire west bank and gaza stip was empty before israel took over the land. There was nobody living there.
2) If you see some empty land in which nobody is living you can take it, build housing on it and declare it to be a part of your country.
3) because the palestenians did not officially have a nation before it's OK to torture them, to kill them, to humiliate them and to deny them any human rights whatsoever.
4) If people illegally immigrate to a place then it's OK to kill them.
Nice religion that judaism.
"Nelson Mandela and his ties to the communist party:"
Again. In what way does this negate his knowledge of apartheid?
"You know, if you would have read the article you would have learned that the place was practically empty. VIRTUALLY EMPTY. GOT IT Forest?"
Bullshit. People were living there. This is something the israelis tell themselves to sleep better. It somehow justifies the taking of land from other people.
What the fuck is wrong with you? Do you honestly believe that the entire west bank and gaza strip was empty until Israel moved in? There was nothing but a forrest that did not belong to anybody? What the fuck kind of an insane argument is that?
Most of Montana is a forrest too. There are hundreds of thousands of acres where nobody is living. It's all empty. Does that make it OK for canadians to build settlements there? Of course not. Just because some land is empty that does not mean you get to build houses on it.
"I am not saying that everything the Israelis are doing is right."
really? I want to hear you say one thing that the israelis are doing wrong. Go ahead say that it's despicable to drop bombs on crowded cities. Say that it's morally reprehensible to have an official state policy of torture. Say that it's wrong to round up thousands of people and haul them off to jail with no charges or attorneys. Go ahead say it. I dare you.
"But you can't say that the Palestinians have right to the land."
That's not me saying that, it's the UN, the United States and the rest of the world. The west bank and the gaza strip are occupied terratories. Israel is occupying land that belonged to other people. They are building settlements on other peoples property. Both the UN and the US have asked repeatedly for israel to stop doing that but they don't.
"You Nelson Mandela, the one associated with his local communist party? OK."
LOL. OK so Nelson Mandela is a communist *snicker*. Ok so I guess that means he knows nothing about apartheid right?
"You talk of "Palestinians" like they were a nation prior to the Israeli state being formed."
Wow so they didn't officially have a nation. I guess that makes it perfectly OK to kill them and take away land that has belonged to them for generations. Since they never officially have a nation I guess that also means it's perfectly OK to round them up and torture them once in a while too. Since they are a nationless people it's perfectly OK to put them in reservations, build fences around them, take away their water and deny them any human rights whatsoever.
I see it clearly now. The morality of it all is perfect. You can do whatever you want to people as long as they did not officially exist as a nation.
Is that in the talmud someplace? If so let me know the passage, I want to bookmark it.
I recently upgraded WMP to version 9 because the old one kept crashing on me. As far as I can tell it's just a program to deliver advertising to me that just happens to play videos too.
IN any case it didn't cure the crashing problem so off it goes, I just hope I can uninstall it all the way.
"No they haven't."
Wow. I guess that proves your point once and for all. Do you know who called the palestenian stiuation apartheid? It was Nelson Mandella. I think I'll take his word over yours. I think he probably knows a thing or two about apartheid.
"Apples and Oranges. You can't compare history of the U.S. to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict."
Really? Why not?
"There are over 1.5 million muslims living IN Israel, working in Israel."
Yes there are. Those arabs living in israel don't have the same rights are the jews living in israel. For example there are numerous "jewish only" neighborhoods where arabs are not allowed to live.
Of course that's irrelevent to this discussion. There are 3.5 million palestenians living under israeli occupation who have no rights at all. They are living under apartheid.