I'm not sure what you're doing in this discussion if you can't make a good guess as to what's in the recurse() function for the purposes of this discussion.
You also seem to have missed the fact that Ruby isn't Rails.
Try Ruby, code up a project in it after you actually understand the language, and you'll see the draw. For instance, just an hour ago I was writing a quick script to recurse through directories and apply ReplayGain. I had a loop like this:
Dir.foreach(target) do |entry|
if File.directory?(entry)
recurse(target + '/' + entry)
else
dostuff(target)
end end
Later on, just on a whim, I decided I wanted it to sort the dir listing so I could judge how far it was through the process. I only had to change the first line:
Dir.entries(target).sort().each() do |entry|
A teensy tiny sript to be fair, but that's just an example that I was able to pull out of the last couple hours, I've done much larger things but it'd be hard to think of a good example. There's nine different ways to do everything, and they all work exactly like you'd expect. There's a million things that allow beautiful constructs, like lambda functions and yield statements, implict reference but easy to do deep copies, it goes on and on. The langugage is just an absolute joy to work with, and I'm saying this as a hard-line strict ANSI C++ programmer--so much so that I still find it hard to make myself use long long.
The problem is, it's so easy that it attracts people who hardly understand programming. It also makes you want to try out weird new ideas. I've never looked very hard into it, but from everything I've heard about Rails and its almost code-generation level programming I get the impression that it's a great idea that got over-engineered to Frankenstein proportions, like the first home project of any size a fledgling programmer makes. Not saying these guys are that... just that's what it reminds me of.
One good measure I try to follow is, if you have to basically learn an entire new language to use your product, be it a framework or a word processor, unless you've purposefully designed it as a language, with all the deep thought that goes into that, you're probably doing something wrong. Really, the yardstick I try to go by is, you should only have to learn one thing to progress further, never two things at once, and it should always be apparent what directions are available. I looked over the Rails documentation and example source, and it doesn't meet that criteria.
Ruby Isn't Rails. Check out the language, it's a thing of beauty, and it allows you to do things really quickly, really easily, and most importantly, the Right Way without a lot of extra effort (an area C++ fails miserably at, unfortunately). No, it's not the fastest language by a long shot, but haven't we always said that premature optimization is the root of all evil? They can (and in all likelihood will) fix that later. Plus, given how easy it is to add inline C, which can easily interact in both directions, make calls, construct objects, etc... well, when I discovered that it was like I was banging a smoking hot woman, who to be fair is a little slow, and I found the keys to a Porche at the bottom of her vagina.
<kylev> BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
<kylev> hahahahaha
<kylev> some girl just came onto our floor
<kylev> and was yelling "sexual favors for anyone who does my sociology paper"
<kylev> i just asked her what the paper was about
<kylev> and she said the accomplishments and growth of feminism
<`Neo> bahahahaha
See, that's why I put the parenthetical in there, I am a programmer, but I'd prefer 2 features that both work right to 1,000 that half work. To me, the latter is morally equivalent to lying. Although Gnome absolutely has its share of problems, it's well ahead of KDE as far as actually working. I keep an updated KDE installed on my desktop and check it out at least every 6 months--mostly because Gnome isn't good enough either, but it's the best I can find. The thing is, I jump into KDE, and within a half hour I've found four things that don't work, cause crashes, silently fail, or just suck (by just suck I mean unresponsiveness, the crappy menu transparency and shadows that are off by a couple pixels that's completely different from the crappy window transparency, which isn't even consistent in itself!).
As for the list of junk I rattled off for Gnome, yeah, you got me, that's just what I remember from when I was going to help out with the project a few years ago. After realizing that I'd have to learn 40 different, sometimes incompatible, often redundant frameworks, I decided my time would be better spent elsewhere. And yeah, I do have something that will be coming out Real Soon Now (had to take a break from programming due to tendinitis in the wrist that's still bothering me to this day) but the point is, Gnome looks like it does not because all that crap actually helps out, but because 50 different people had a Great Idea.
No, wait, there is no point. Oh! Here's one: A project as big as a desktop environment that needs to be extremely consistent throughout, needs a Linus. It needs one guy to be the benevolent dictator, because right now it looks like anyone can get any old thing in there. Tomboy a C# app? wtf? It's not complicated, it's an applet, a couple borderless windows, and a simple WebDAV client, all of which I'd bet lots of money Gnome already has libraries for. It could be just as easily implemented in C, and a halfway experienced Gnome developer could implement it, with all of its current features, in probably a week or less. I'm halfway tempted to take a week of vacation and do it myself just to prove a point.
I'm a hardcore Gnome user (it's prettier, more "solid", and I like how simple they make configuration, even though I've been a programmer, sysadmin, have used Linux exclusively for about 5 years and am by all accounts a "power-user") but man it bugs me that they chose to use C and then load the language up with 500 different code generators and other shit shoehorned in so that it's hardly recognizable as C anymore. If you're going to do it in C, just give a nice clean API and screw all that Glade, Pango, Orbit, yadda yadda yadda shit. Or, even better, use C++!
I'll never understand the OSS community's C++ phobia. Of course, most of the C++ that comes out of the OSS community makes me want to take up trepanning, so maybe that's not such a bad thing...
I'm taking a week off as soon as that game comes out.
Nothing about multiplayer, though. Oh well, if they had that I'd be the next guy dead after playing 96 hours straight. Well, maybe if I got myself on an IV feeder and a catheter... but then I'd wear my fingers down to nubs. Maybe I could rivet steel tips on, it'd hurt a lot at first, but I think the benefits outweigh...
WOAH! Whattha whosit WHERE? Ninja Gaiden 2 for the 360? AAAAAHAHAAAA! Where's the article!? I NEED CONFIRMATION! WILL THERE BE MULTIPLAYER!?!
Sorry. I just regressed a little, but do you actually have concrete info about NG2? I haven't bought a next-gen system yet... I've literally been waiting to see which console this comes out on.
The Silk scene was good, I'll give you that, but Silk's also one of the better characters. Nothing on Belgarath or Polgara, but still. Hmm... but compare Silk's reaction with Bethra with Thom Merrilin's reaction to Dena. Silk's scene was neat, Thom's made me sad, angry, empty... I stayed up an hour later because I couldn't sleep afterward. Makes you wonder if RJ was a DE fan, though.
Anyway, if you liked the Belorian Cycle you should read the Elenium. As I recall it was much better, more adult.
One of my best memories is staying home sick from school with a fever. It was the beginning of September, and about 90 degrees out, so I had a fan going in the window, and I laid on my bed and read book five cover-to-cover in one sitting. When I was done, I was so pulled into the world that I heard the fan going and freaked right out. All I can remember thinking is, what the fuck is a fan? Then I realized that I just wondered what some thing from the future was that I just referred to by name, and then I wondered how in the hell I knew it was from the future, and then I really got twisted. I just sat there with a "poleaxed" look on my face for a good ten minutes before I could think my way out of that mental tar baby.
Haha, I've read other people trying not to post spoilers but been somewhat callous about it myself, given that even if you spoil one or two things it's no big deal... but man you freaking nailed it. Hah!
Agreed on the Herbert thing. Man he took Dune and turned it into one big pile of shit... and the stuff he said about the Jews, omg.
Slashdot Mirror
RELAX IMMEDATELY!
Ever notice the parents in the grocery store? *shake* *shake* *shake* CALM DOWN RIGHT NOW! *shake*
Oh, yeah, there's nothing like the Internet for peaceful and enlightened communication.
I'm not sure what you're doing in this discussion if you can't make a good guess as to what's in the recurse() function for the purposes of this discussion.
You also seem to have missed the fact that Ruby isn't Rails.
Ugh. There appears to be a troll under this bridge. Nevermind, I'll go around another way.
Try Ruby, code up a project in it after you actually understand the language, and you'll see the draw. For instance, just an hour ago I was writing a quick script to recurse through directories and apply ReplayGain. I had a loop like this:
Later on, just on a whim, I decided I wanted it to sort the dir listing so I could judge how far it was through the process. I only had to change the first line:
A teensy tiny sript to be fair, but that's just an example that I was able to pull out of the last couple hours, I've done much larger things but it'd be hard to think of a good example. There's nine different ways to do everything, and they all work exactly like you'd expect. There's a million things that allow beautiful constructs, like lambda functions and yield statements, implict reference but easy to do deep copies, it goes on and on. The langugage is just an absolute joy to work with, and I'm saying this as a hard-line strict ANSI C++ programmer--so much so that I still find it hard to make myself use long long.
The problem is, it's so easy that it attracts people who hardly understand programming. It also makes you want to try out weird new ideas. I've never looked very hard into it, but from everything I've heard about Rails and its almost code-generation level programming I get the impression that it's a great idea that got over-engineered to Frankenstein proportions, like the first home project of any size a fledgling programmer makes. Not saying these guys are that ... just that's what it reminds me of.
One good measure I try to follow is, if you have to basically learn an entire new language to use your product, be it a framework or a word processor, unless you've purposefully designed it as a language, with all the deep thought that goes into that, you're probably doing something wrong. Really, the yardstick I try to go by is, you should only have to learn one thing to progress further, never two things at once, and it should always be apparent what directions are available. I looked over the Rails documentation and example source, and it doesn't meet that criteria.
Ruby Isn't Rails. Check out the language, it's a thing of beauty, and it allows you to do things really quickly, really easily, and most importantly, the Right Way without a lot of extra effort (an area C++ fails miserably at, unfortunately). No, it's not the fastest language by a long shot, but haven't we always said that premature optimization is the root of all evil? They can (and in all likelihood will) fix that later. Plus, given how easy it is to add inline C, which can easily interact in both directions, make calls, construct objects, etc... well, when I discovered that it was like I was banging a smoking hot woman, who to be fair is a little slow, and I found the keys to a Porche at the bottom of her vagina.
He can have that trick when he pulls it out of my cold, dead sinuses.
Well, that's the first time I've ever shot pretzels out my nose...
I'm reminded of this quote:
<kylev> BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
<kylev> hahahahaha
<kylev> some girl just came onto our floor
<kylev> and was yelling "sexual favors for anyone who does my sociology paper"
<kylev> i just asked her what the paper was about
<kylev> and she said the accomplishments and growth of feminism
<`Neo> bahahahaha
Don't even get me started on Java.
See, that's why I put the parenthetical in there, I am a programmer, but I'd prefer 2 features that both work right to 1,000 that half work. To me, the latter is morally equivalent to lying. Although Gnome absolutely has its share of problems, it's well ahead of KDE as far as actually working. I keep an updated KDE installed on my desktop and check it out at least every 6 months--mostly because Gnome isn't good enough either, but it's the best I can find. The thing is, I jump into KDE, and within a half hour I've found four things that don't work, cause crashes, silently fail, or just suck (by just suck I mean unresponsiveness, the crappy menu transparency and shadows that are off by a couple pixels that's completely different from the crappy window transparency, which isn't even consistent in itself!).
As for the list of junk I rattled off for Gnome, yeah, you got me, that's just what I remember from when I was going to help out with the project a few years ago. After realizing that I'd have to learn 40 different, sometimes incompatible, often redundant frameworks, I decided my time would be better spent elsewhere. And yeah, I do have something that will be coming out Real Soon Now (had to take a break from programming due to tendinitis in the wrist that's still bothering me to this day) but the point is, Gnome looks like it does not because all that crap actually helps out, but because 50 different people had a Great Idea.
No, wait, there is no point. Oh! Here's one: A project as big as a desktop environment that needs to be extremely consistent throughout, needs a Linus. It needs one guy to be the benevolent dictator, because right now it looks like anyone can get any old thing in there. Tomboy a C# app? wtf? It's not complicated, it's an applet, a couple borderless windows, and a simple WebDAV client, all of which I'd bet lots of money Gnome already has libraries for. It could be just as easily implemented in C, and a halfway experienced Gnome developer could implement it, with all of its current features, in probably a week or less. I'm halfway tempted to take a week of vacation and do it myself just to prove a point.
I'm a hardcore Gnome user (it's prettier, more "solid", and I like how simple they make configuration, even though I've been a programmer, sysadmin, have used Linux exclusively for about 5 years and am by all accounts a "power-user") but man it bugs me that they chose to use C and then load the language up with 500 different code generators and other shit shoehorned in so that it's hardly recognizable as C anymore. If you're going to do it in C, just give a nice clean API and screw all that Glade, Pango, Orbit, yadda yadda yadda shit. Or, even better, use C++!
I'll never understand the OSS community's C++ phobia. Of course, most of the C++ that comes out of the OSS community makes me want to take up trepanning, so maybe that's not such a bad thing...
I've always known this.
I'm taking a week off as soon as that game comes out.
Nothing about multiplayer, though. Oh well, if they had that I'd be the next guy dead after playing 96 hours straight. Well, maybe if I got myself on an IV feeder and a catheter... but then I'd wear my fingers down to nubs. Maybe I could rivet steel tips on, it'd hurt a lot at first, but I think the benefits outweigh...
WOAH! Whattha whosit WHERE? Ninja Gaiden 2 for the 360? AAAAAHAHAAAA! Where's the article!? I NEED CONFIRMATION! WILL THERE BE MULTIPLAYER!?!
Sorry. I just regressed a little, but do you actually have concrete info about NG2? I haven't bought a next-gen system yet... I've literally been waiting to see which console this comes out on.
No kidding, I stand corrected. Danke :)
Neither is USB when you're running a hard drive.
Better authentication mechanisms? Like what?
No kidding, I'd pay twice as much to get a CD mastered without speaker and ear-destroying clipping and a little bit of dynamic range.
The Silk scene was good, I'll give you that, but Silk's also one of the better characters. Nothing on Belgarath or Polgara, but still. Hmm... but compare Silk's reaction with Bethra with Thom Merrilin's reaction to Dena. Silk's scene was neat, Thom's made me sad, angry, empty... I stayed up an hour later because I couldn't sleep afterward. Makes you wonder if RJ was a DE fan, though.
Anyway, if you liked the Belorian Cycle you should read the Elenium. As I recall it was much better, more adult.
Now I have something I need to do. See you later.
Book 11 is worth books 7-10.
One of my best memories is staying home sick from school with a fever. It was the beginning of September, and about 90 degrees out, so I had a fan going in the window, and I laid on my bed and read book five cover-to-cover in one sitting. When I was done, I was so pulled into the world that I heard the fan going and freaked right out. All I can remember thinking is, what the fuck is a fan? Then I realized that I just wondered what some thing from the future was that I just referred to by name, and then I wondered how in the hell I knew it was from the future, and then I really got twisted. I just sat there with a "poleaxed" look on my face for a good ten minutes before I could think my way out of that mental tar baby.
rofl.
My brain just threw up.
Haha, I've read other people trying not to post spoilers but been somewhat callous about it myself, given that even if you spoil one or two things it's no big deal... but man you freaking nailed it. Hah!
Agreed on the Herbert thing. Man he took Dune and turned it into one big pile of shit... and the stuff he said about the Jews, omg.
Read the first two, at least.