PS3 Rumble Controller Confirmed

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PS3 Rumble Controller Confirmed

Posted by Zonk on Wednesday September 19, 2007 @05:33AM from the rumble-and-tumble dept.

IGN was playing a build of the upcoming title Burnout: Paradise when they noticed something new about the controller in their hands: it was shaking. The rumble-equipped PlayStation 3 controller is almost certainly a reality at this point, with Kaz Harai's keynote tomorrow expected to officially announce the product. "The controller we were using to play the demo looked exactly like a standard Sixaxis, except that it had a sticker on the bottom that said 'RUMBLE.' It also felt notably heavier than the standard Sixaxis."

177 comments

weight by moderatorrater · 2007-09-19 05:36 · Score: 1

I'm going to miss how light the sixaxis is right now. It was the first thing I noticed when I picked one up and I'm a fan. For certain games, I would even go so far as to say that I would prefer the lighter version over the rumble ability (except for those games where the rumble gives feedback that I can't get better elsewhere).
1. Re:weight by Supergibbs · 2007-09-19 05:41 · Score: 1
  
  Rumble trumps all! Think of the exercise we'll get from a heavier controller. We'll have another Wii situation :-)
  
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2. Re:weight by brkello · 2007-09-19 06:54 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  Why would you miss it? If you have it, just keep using and don't use rumble unless there is some game that really requires it.
  
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3. Re:weight by traindirector · 2007-09-19 08:59 · Score: 1
  
  I'm going to miss how light the sixaxis is right now.
  I won't. The current SIXAXIS feels cheap. The first generation of DUALSHOCK 2s felt great--they felt like they had a good build quality and were more than a couple of pieces of cheap plastic. Even the later DUALSHOCKs lost some weight and some of that "quality" feeling. I'm not saying that the build quality has actually gone down. I wouldn't know. Holding the SIXAXIS just doesn't give me the same warm fuzzies that the heavier, more substantial DUALSHOCKs did.
4. Re:weight by pthor1231 · 2007-09-19 09:33 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  I'm convinced that there is a direct correlation in people's minds about the quality of a product, and the heft of it. The light something is, it just feels cheaper. Even with a titanium watch, it feels cheaper than other metal band watches. This definitely extends into the electronics area. I think some of it is the fact that there are very few ways you can judge the quality of devices, so anything that is available, you latch onto.
5. Re:weight by donaldm · 2007-09-19 20:59 · Score: 1
  
  When I picked up the 6 axis for the first time I was surprised how light it was and for games such as adventure and RPG's I found the controller excellent to the point I don't miss the relatively heavy DualShock. I won't deny that for some games rumble can be atmospheric and for some people it is a must. Still if you play for long periods of time a heavy controller with rumble can lead to sore hands.
  
  What is annoying is the fact that a company like Immersion (backed behind the scenes by Microsoft when they litigated against Sony - http://www.techshout.com/gaming/2007/20/microsoft-sues-immersion-for-its-share-in-sony-patent-settlement/) patented rumble in 2000 when it was used by Nintendo and Sony two years before that and I am sure there would have been a one to two years lead up to the final product. What could be interesting is if Sony actually bring out their own rumble or force-feedback patented technology which is different to Immersion's off-centered motor (see Sony's patent 20070180910 http://www.latestpatents.com/2007/08/09/sony-patent-applications-published-on-09-august-2007/).
  
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That's funny by wamerocity · 2007-09-19 05:37 · Score: 2, Interesting

I remember when the PS3 first came out, the PR guy tried to spin the lack of Rumble as a good thing because it was "last generation." However, it turned out the company that they licensed the technology from would license it any longer and they finally came to terms a few months ago. PR is a funny thing. If anything, this will be good cause it will allow me to at least get rumble back in my ps2 games, a feature that I really missed. Now just to see how long before it hits the shelves and how much it will be. I really hope that this replaces the sixaxis and they just call it "the sixaxis rumble" or something silly so they don't have to increase the price much. Any word on whether the new controllers have a significantly bigger battery, or are they simply just wired?

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1. Re:That's funny by provigilman · 2007-09-19 06:58 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah, they also claimed that the Rubmle technology and the motion-sensing technology couldn't both fit into the controller. It's too bad they don't have Pinnocio working for them, with all the lying they're doing his nose could've supplied enough wood to rebuild the entire city of New Orleans!
  
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2. Re:That's funny by donaldm · 2007-09-20 00:35 · Score: 1
  
  You do realise that if you play PS1 and PS2 games on your PS3 that you can use a Dualshock controller with a PS2 to USB adaptor and if the the game supports rumble the controller will vibrate accordingly. Of course you should have firmware 1.8 or greater.
  
  As far as battery life goes I have a Logitech 2 wireless PS2 controller that supports rumble and I can get well over 50 hours out of 2 AA batteries so I would not be surprised if the new "sixaxis-shock controller" has a battery life of 24 or more hours with charging via the same USB cable which if you did not know can be used on any live USB port (PS3 or PC it does not matter and when the leds stop flashing the battery is charged). If Sony uses their new shock patent which looks very interesting then it may draw even less current than the original DualShock motors.
  
  Personally I play more PS2 games on my PS3 than native PS3 games because IMHO there are plenty (read too many) of PS2 games that I like with more coming out so I am quite happy to wait till next year for native PS3 games that I can really like. Since the PS3 will upscale and smooth PS2 games to a HDTV playing that PS2 game is almost, but not quite like playing a first generation PS3 game.
  
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But.... by NoobHunter · 2007-09-19 05:38 · Score: 1, Insightful

Will this save the PS3? Consider that Heavenly Sword was supposed to be a console seller...it turned out to be a 5 hours affair with 2 hours of cutscenes and gameplay that made me think of God of War, Dynasty Warriors and Ninety-Nine Nights....'cept with a much prettier lead character.

If I was Sony right now, I'd worry more about the driness of the system's game library rather than the cool new features avialable for the system. In the mean time, let me itterate the games that are gonna makes owning a 360 sooo sweet...*Drools over Halo 3 adverts..*

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So Jesus, Mohammed and Abraham walk into a Bar....
1. Re:But.... by Pojut · 2007-09-19 05:46 · Score: 1
  
  ::sigh:: another madden gamer...
  
  Halo 3 looks fun and all, but there are far more exciting things coming out for the system than Halo 3...
  
  Mass Effect, Too Human, Fable 2, the next Burnout game, the Warhammer RTS, the next Splinter Cell, the Orange Box, Condemned: Criminal Origins, Fallout 3...
  
  Seriously. There is WAY more coming out for the system than Halo 3...why do people keep focusing on just that?
  
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2. Re:But.... by NoobHunter · 2007-09-19 05:49 · Score: 1
  
  did you read my post? "Let me Count the number of games..." I was counting...COUNTING! Halo 3 is just one of them...well...the closest one to this time anyways.
  
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  So Jesus, Mohammed and Abraham walk into a Bar....
3. Re:But.... by Pojut · 2007-09-19 05:51 · Score: 1
  
  Sorry...It's just my initial reaction whenever I read or hear someone talking about how great the system is and then Halo 3 is the game that gets mentioned...twas a similar situation with the first Xbox 8D
  
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4. Re:But.... by Sciros · 2007-09-19 05:55 · Score: 1
  
  Ninja Gaiden 2, Resident Evil 5 == might end up being the two best games for the console when all is said and done (well along with Halo 3 if it fully delivers).
  
  There's also the Gears of War sequels... hopefully...
  
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5. Re:But.... by gurps_npc · 2007-09-19 05:58 · Score: 0
  
  They are trying to compete with Ninentdo. This is in effect their answer to the Wii Remote, etc. etc. It is a poos, sub-standard response. But they are smarter than you. The library will only increase if they give developers a reason to come to them. Right now, developers are more interested in building for the Wii, which requires more creativity and less pure data.
  
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6. Re:But.... by Pojut · 2007-09-19 05:58 · Score: 2, Funny
  
  Blasphemy.
  
  I left out Ninja Gaiden 2 in my list in a post a little above yours.
  
  I have shamed my family.
  
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7. Re:But.... by JordanL · 2007-09-19 06:05 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  Will this save the PS3? Consider that Heavenly Sword was supposed to be a console seller...it turned out to be a 5 hours affair with 2 hours of cutscenes and gameplay that made me think of God of War, Dynasty Warriors and Ninety-Nine Nights....'cept with a much prettier lead character.
  First, I work as a video game reporter, among other things. I've been to these shows, though sadly I didn't make it to TGS this year. (Last year was fun though.)
  
  Us people in the know have been very harsh on Sony about Heavenly Sword's length, but you know what, all the common video game consumer friends I have with a PS3 have called me up to ask if I absolutely loved the game as much as them... and when I tried to explain that it was great but short, most of them told me in a matter of fact way that the game was like an epic movie that you got to play, and that being short made sense to them because it kicked ass in the short time it played and it didn't have tons of filler, which they didn't want.
  
  Us 'elite' gamers have been giving it a bad rap, and I know that this is simply anecdotal, but it appears to me that the ho-hum consumer actually appreciates the shortness vs. the content.
  
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8. Re:But.... by EggyToast · 2007-09-19 06:11 · Score: 1
  
  I think it's more that it's a game that is at least good on the PS3. When you've only had crappy games for the past year, a game that is great but short seems that much greater. A truly great game has staying power, and remains fun long after it's beaten. Ask your friends again in January how often they've played Heavenly Sword.
  
  Or, even better, in January ask them if they feel they got their $60 worth out of the title. You can also point out that if you spend $60 on DVDs you'd get more entertainment time from the movies than the video game.
9. Re:But.... by king-manic · 2007-09-19 06:17 · Score: 1
  
  Us people in the know have been very harsh on Sony about Heavenly Sword's length, but you know what, all the common video game consumer friends I have with a PS3 have called me up to ask if I absolutely loved the game as much as them... and when I tried to explain that it was great but short, most of them told me in a matter of fact way that the game was like an epic movie that you got to play, and that being short made sense to them because it kicked ass in the short time it played and it didn't have tons of filler, which they didn't want.
  
  Yeah I would have preferred halo trimmed by about 50% since thats how much filler you had to go through to play the unique or interesting parts. Most modern games could be trimmed in a similar way. I guess they add the filler to prevent from being "rental" material. If you blow your load in 6h with no foreplay then they have less incentive to buy it versus rent it. So a game that requires a lot of foreplay may convince someone to work harder for the same err.. nerdgasm.
  
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10. Re:But.... by toolie · 2007-09-19 06:19 · Score: 1
  
  It isn't just the shortness of the game. Every single fight seems the same. There is the occasional 'aim and shoot' with either a crossbow, or cannon or whatever, but the majority is 'swarm of guys come at you, kill them'. At least the GoW series had different styles of enemies. In HS, they were all the same (at least until I got to the point where I said screw it and went back to finish GOW2).
  
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  -- toolie
11. Re:But.... by NoobHunter · 2007-09-19 06:28 · Score: 1
  
  Don't get me wrong...from what I've seen and played in Heavenly Sword, the game is freaking cool (the titles it reminded me of are all games that have a special place in my library..) but unlike all the other ones, this one was done and over with quicker than I could blink! Mebe game pricing should be related to it's length because paying 60 bucks for that would have made me feel ripped off at the end!
  
  Having said that...the PS3 has TONS of potential and a massive amount of staying power. But when you look at how Sony is reigning it in, you quickly make comparisons that equate to giving a professional grade movie camera to someone who barely knows how to use it...a somewhat decent yet lacking result at best.
  Now, don't get me wrong...if the PS3 manages to avoid being the DreamCast part 2, I will gladly invest in one. At this time though, I just can't warrant it. Rather get a Wii so I can finally play the Lightsabre game!
  
  --
  So Jesus, Mohammed and Abraham walk into a Bar....
12. Re:But.... by nuzak · 2007-09-19 06:34 · Score: 1
  
  > gameplay that made me think of God of War, Dynasty Warriors and Ninety-Nine Nights
  
  One of these things is not like the other... If a game has gameplay like God of War, I am sold. Hell, GOW3 together with Ratchet and Clank might move a PS3 for me if I ever stop playing the 360. But from the screens I've seen, it indeed does look more like DW or N3, games where it's fun to mow down enemies for the first minute, then it literally gets as boring as actual mowing.
  
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13. Re:But.... by Pojut · 2007-09-19 06:36 · Score: 1
  
  Woah there, bud. The Dreamcast had some AWESOME AWESOME games...It's popularity continues to rise even long after it's "death".
  
  It is definately a console that I shall never sell.
  
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  Living With a Nerd
14. Re:But.... by nullChris · 2007-09-19 06:44 · Score: 1
  
  Could be something to do with the fact that it is not only highly anticipated, but also officially available in 6 days.
  I'm totally excited about Mass Effect, Too Human, Fable 2, the Orange Box, and Fallout 3. None of those are coming out in 6 days, though.
15. Re:But.... by Pojut · 2007-09-19 06:46 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah...I had actually completely forgotten that it was that close....here's to hoping that november gets here just as fast ;-)
  
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16. Re:But.... by ivan256 · 2007-09-19 06:47 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  But my favorite part of first-person shooters are the parts where you fight your way back through areas you were already in to extend the playtime. I especially appreciate it when they strip you of all your weapons first.
  
  BTW, Doom 3 is my favorite game ever.
17. Re:But.... by Reapman · 2007-09-19 06:48 · Score: 1
  
  It felt very much like God of War to me, and I really enjoyed the combat more to be honest. In Heavenly Sword you have three "stances" that change your attacks radically. Getting crowded in use the ranged attack to back everyone up then focus on one guy with speed or the big attack stances. You switch back and forth on the fly (controlled with the shoulder buttons) time your counter attacks right and it's an instant kill for you mixed with a sweet CS sometimes. Getting banged up and flung in the air? Shake the controller a bit and She'll use the Heavenly Blade to counter and rip the guy a new oriface.
  
  I haven't played Dynasty or N3, but I'm really digging the combat compared to God of War. If i sound excited about the game, it's because I am :P Ya the length sucks for most, but my time is far less available then when I was younger so I appreciate that I can actually finish a game for once.
  
  YMMV, but that's my 2 cents. LIke anything rent before you get it I say, but I would definitly try it out, especially if you liked God Of War.
18. Re:But.... by nuzak · 2007-09-19 07:06 · Score: 1
  
  > I haven't played Dynasty or N3
  
  That would explain it. Dynasty Warriors (and its clones, like N3) is a distilled archetype of "repetitive". In these games, you face hundreds, thousands of enemies spawned by the Great Clone Brush In The Sky, and plow through them with spectacular attacks, scattering them by the dozens with each hit. It's really cool, for about a minute of gameplay. Then you realize that gameplay consists inevitably of mashing the same button, over and over and over and over and over and over. For some inexplicable reason, there's this core of purchasers who still buy DW titles, so they keep making them (the latest one slaps a Gundam skin on the same game).
  
  Sounds to me like HS isn't quite as bad as all that, but at six hours, that's the very definition of a rental title.
  
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19. Re:But.... by bigstrat2003 · 2007-09-19 07:29 · Score: 1
  
  Halo 3 looks fun and all, but there are far more exciting things coming out for the system than Halo 3... Not necessarily. I'm looking forward to some of those games quite a bit (Mmmm, Mass Effect), but none of them compare to my excitement for Halo 3 (finale to the best FPS series ever!). You don't have to be a "Madden gamer" (I'm assuming you're referencing the sterotypical Halo player) to really, really want the game.
  
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20. Re:But.... by NoobHunter · 2007-09-19 07:30 · Score: 1
  
  True but the Dreamcast was a system that had the potential to reach levels of popularity that Sony and Microsoft now have with their systems but it suffered the same problem that the PS3 is now suffering....a sore lack of direction and poor marketing. Otherwise, you are right...I will never get rid of mine either because the games on it were splendid.
  
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  So Jesus, Mohammed and Abraham walk into a Bar....
21. Re:But.... by 19thNervousBreakdown · 2007-09-19 07:33 · Score: 1
  
  WOAH! Whattha whosit WHERE? Ninja Gaiden 2 for the 360? AAAAAHAHAAAA! Where's the article!? I NEED CONFIRMATION! WILL THERE BE MULTIPLAYER!?!
  
  Sorry. I just regressed a little, but do you actually have concrete info about NG2? I haven't bought a next-gen system yet... I've literally been waiting to see which console this comes out on.
  
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22. Re:But.... by Pojut · 2007-09-19 07:34 · Score: 1
  
  Don't get me wrong, I really want it too...but when you get right down to it, it's still Halo. It can't possibly stray too far from the first two games, otherwise it would piss off too many people.
  
  I'm sure it will be a great game, it's just that it doesn't really seem to be introducing anything spectacularly new...I know, I know, the whole "reserve judgment until after you have played it" deal...still, I think it's reasonable to expect it to be More of the Same(TM), just (much) prettier.
  
  Personally, I hope the next story arch they make a series out of is a tactical shooter similar to Full Spectrum Warrior...now THAT would be sweet.
  
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23. Re:But.... by Pojut · 2007-09-19 07:38 · Score: 1
  
  That's the funny thing about the marketing aspect... I saw commercials on TV all the time for both the system and games for the system (remember the 9/9/99 deal?) It is completely beyond me why more people didn't buy one.
  
  The only thing I can think of is that they were taking the Sega Saturn as an indication of what the console was going to be like. For what it's worth, the Saturn's library as a whole was rather horrible, however the games that were good were REALLY good.
  
  Honestly, I bet that if Sega started to resell them for say....$50 dollars...they would still be able to sell a lot of them. ESPECIALLY given the user-created content that is available for it.
  
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24. Re:But.... by bigstrat2003 · 2007-09-19 07:45 · Score: 1
  
  So, by your own logic, you shouldn't look forward to Ninja Gaiden 2, because it'll still be Ninja Gaiden, when you get down to it. ;)
  I'm under no illusions that Halo 3 will rock the boat, my point was just that you don't have to be a dumb, beer-guzzling frat boy (or whatever "dumb Halo player" stereotype you prefer) to think that it's the best game coming out for the 360 that we know of.
  
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  "16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
25. Re:But.... by bigstrat2003 · 2007-09-19 07:49 · Score: 1
  
  HS is pretty amazing, imo. It's not as good as it could be (enemies do some REALLY cheap things sometimes, and the plot is generic), but it's a ton of fun to play. The voice acting is also some of the best I've seen in a game, especially the main villian, brought to life so well by Andy Serkis. And in what is an extreme rarity among games, the game is as much fun to watch as it is to play.
  Not to mention that since I had so much fun, I'm definitely going to replay it quite a bit. Well worth the $60, imho.
  
  --
  "16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
26. Re:But.... by Pojut · 2007-09-19 07:50 · Score: 1
  
  hey hey, no fair turning my own illogical logic against me! 8D
  
  Anyway, I know you don't have to be the beer-guzzling fratboy, it's just that I find people that are fanatical about it tend to be a certain kind of gamer (i.e. the type that don't delve into unknowns like Ico, Psychonauts, etc.) I know that is a very broad generlization and I know that I am wrong, but just in my own experience that is what it seems to be.
  
  I suppose another thing about it is I've been playing FPS games since Catacomb 3D...it takes quite a lot (Quake, Half-Life 2, Bioshock, etc.) for me to be excited about one.
  
  For me, Mass Effect, Fable 2, and Prototype are tied for the stuff I am most excited about.
  
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27. Re:But.... by Sciros · 2007-09-19 08:12 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah, there's gameplay footage and a "teaser" and screenshots available -- I think you can check ign.com for them. It's officially on 360; in fact it's being published by MS rather than TECMO as far as I know so there's no way it will be cross-platform, heh.
  
  Oh, and yes, the game PWNS N000BZ hard!! Looks wicked.
  
  --
  I like basketball!!1!
28. Re:But.... by 19thNervousBreakdown · 2007-09-19 08:18 · Score: 1
  
  I'm taking a week off as soon as that game comes out.
  
  Nothing about multiplayer, though. Oh well, if they had that I'd be the next guy dead after playing 96 hours straight. Well, maybe if I got myself on an IV feeder and a catheter... but then I'd wear my fingers down to nubs. Maybe I could rivet steel tips on, it'd hurt a lot at first, but I think the benefits outweigh...
  
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29. Re:But.... by provigilman · 2007-09-19 08:21 · Score: 1
  
  But why all of the Halo 3 hate? I understand that there are those out there who play nothing but Madden and Halo, but there are also those of us who play games like Blue Dragon, Bioshock, Project Sylpheed and will be playing the hell out of Mass Effect.
  Just because we also happen to love the Halo series isn't a bad thing. A group of my friends and I still get together for Halo:CE LAN parties even, and they're definitely not "Madden Gamers"...although a few of them do happen to play that franchise too. ;)
  
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30. Re:But.... by Sciros · 2007-09-19 08:23 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah this game is 50% of the reason I got a 360 a year ago. (The rest of its game library including upcoming games is the other 50%.) It was my favorite game of the previous generation, besides Morrowind which I played on PC. NG2 is likely to be my fav game of this generation not counting Oblivion, heh. Gotta get both my action and adventure fix, heh.
  
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31. Re:But.... by hansamurai · 2007-09-19 08:28 · Score: 1
  
  it turned out to be a 5 hours affair with 2 hours of cutscenes Honestly I'd much rather play a short, great game than a long, drawn out, decent game. When I was in high school I could play video games for 40 hours a week but all through college and now as a nine-to-fiver, I can barely manage three hours a week. That's part of the reason why I started my own video game review site, where I only review the first hour of a game ( http://www.thefirsthourblog.com/ ).
  and gameplay that made me think of God of War And that's bad how? God of War plays great. I've never played Heavenly Sword, heck I don't even own a PS3, but everything you've said so far sounds rather appealing to me. Except for maybe the 2 hours of cutscenes, but then again, I love the Metal Gear Solid series.
  
  --
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32. Re:But.... by Pojut · 2007-09-19 08:33 · Score: 1
  
  It's not hate, it's frustration that it gets so much attention when better, lesser known games are exactly that: lesser known.
  
  I'm not suprised, it's not like I didn't expect a huge marketing blitz and a lot of talk...but it still annoys me regardless:-)
  
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33. Re:But.... by rtechie · 2007-09-19 09:17 · Score: 1
  
  The crappy controllers didn't help either. This was the first system I've used where the third-party MadCatz controllers were DRAMATICALLY superior to the standard controllers. And piracy was also a factor.
34. Re:But.... by Pojut · 2007-09-19 09:24 · Score: 1
  
  I know I am in the minority, but I actually liked the Dreamcast controller...it was ugly as sin, but it fit rather comfortably in my hand.
  
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35. Re:But.... by Pojut · 2007-09-19 10:33 · Score: 1
  
  Well, it has had 23 years to mold itself to the shape of my left hand, hasn't it..
  
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36. Re:But.... by buffer-overflowed · 2007-09-19 10:35 · Score: 1
  
  Ok so we have a bunch of games that would be and will be better on the PC, especially if they weren't catering to the 360 crowd, and a bunch of ho-hum stuff with a few bright spots in it.
  
  Man, I'm excited, I can't wait to see how easy they make Fallout 3 so the console demographic can play it(see also: Bioshock).
  
  If you play an RTS or a sequel to a classic PC game(such as Fallout 3) on a console, you should be shot.
  
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37. Re:But.... by Pojut · 2007-09-19 10:41 · Score: 1
  
  Or, you could be like me (a pc gamer since '87) and get fed up with having to constantly upgrade your computer with expensive shit.
  
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  Living With a Nerd
38. Re:But.... by rtechie · 2007-09-19 10:56 · Score: 1
  
  The inward curving grips were brutal for my hands. The Madcatz controllers also had a six-button face (duplicating the shoulder buttons on the face) making it perfect for six-button fighting games, like Capcom vs. SNK. DC was basically THE platform for fighting games, with Soul Calibur being one of the launch titles and one of the best fighting games ever.
39. Re:But.... by buffer-overflowed · 2007-09-19 11:34 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, I much prefer to buy a non-deductable $350 piece of equipment every 4 years that *will* break, versus an $800 piece of equipment every 4 years that comes with a display, does many other tasks(some of which I require not as a matter of leisure), has superior game depth, controls, resolution and graphics compared to the $350 piece of hardware and can be amortized over it's lifetime on my taxes.
  
  Also the games are $10 cheaper... for some reason, and mods are free.
  
  My, what a value.
  
  --
  The key to the enjoyment of pop music is to replace any instance of "love" with "C.H.U.D."
40. Re:But.... by Pojut · 2007-09-19 12:56 · Score: 1
  
  Right...because that $800 dollar computer that you buy today will really be able to play games at max visual quality four years after you buy it.
  
  The $400 dollar video card that I bought a few years ago (x800xt) doesn't even meet the minimum requirements for most games out there now.
  
  I agree with you...a keyboard and mouse combined with top-notch innards blows away a console any day...but those top-notch innards become minimum required innards in a very, very short amount of time.
  
  --
  Living With a Nerd
41. Re:But.... by buffer-overflowed · 2007-09-19 14:00 · Score: 1
  
  No it won't, but if you put it together right, it'll perform better then the consoles for the rest of *their* lives, and it has an upgrade path. If you place such a premium on visuals a console isn't a viable option *anyway* since you can always get a PC to outperform it, even at release, if cost isn't a concern.
  
  --
  The key to the enjoyment of pop music is to replace any instance of "love" with "C.H.U.D."
42. Re:But.... by lucas+teh+geek · 2007-09-19 14:24 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah I would have preferred halo trimmed by about 50% since thats how much filler you had to go through to play the unique or interesting parts.
  +1. I think 50% is proably being generous.i only ever got a few hours into halo because i found it dull and unnecessarily repetitive. from what i played it seemed like for every hour of gameplay, 40 minutes was spent playing filler. some gamers seem to love filler, I call them jocks. I suspect their thinking is something along the lines:"oh, wow! more of the same! this is great because its so easy, I already know how to do this bit! woo!".
  
  disclaimer: not a sony fanboy. I dont own or want a PS3. I think the thing is a pile of crap. but halo is really, really dull.
  
  --
  TIAEAE!
43. Re:But.... by Pojut · 2007-09-19 14:33 · Score: 1
  
  See that's the thing...visuals are nice, but money is nicer ;-)
  
  --
  Living With a Nerd
44. Re:But.... by ChildeRoland · 2007-09-19 15:52 · Score: 1
  
  Condemned: Criminal Origins???????????? The original was a huge, steaming pile of SHIT
  
  --
  The mark of a mature person is not creating arbitrary criteria for considering others mature.
45. Re:But.... by ChildeRoland · 2007-09-19 15:54 · Score: 1
  
  You bought a 360 a year ago primarily for a game that was announced within the past week?
  
  --
  The mark of a mature person is not creating arbitrary criteria for considering others mature.
46. Re:But.... by Pojut · 2007-09-20 00:34 · Score: 1
  
  Different strokes for different folks, I suppose...
  
  --
  Living With a Nerd
47. Re:But.... by Sciros · 2007-09-20 02:23 · Score: 1
  
  Primarily, yes. Just like most Wii owners I know (who got it as soon as they could) primarily bought it for Smash Brawl. But for now I've been enjoying Oblivion, DOA4, Gears of War, Forza 2, and a couple of other games very much. I don't have that much free time for games so between those and my PS2, PC, Cube, and DS, I'm basically set for a while. Halo 3, Mass Effect, and a couple other titles will hold me over until NG2. Plus I'll get a Wii for Smash and Galaxy in the meantime.
  
  --
  I like basketball!!1!
48. Re:But.... by Devir · 2007-09-20 05:25 · Score: 1
  
  I loved playing God of WAr, but that game dragged on for me. Quite a few modern games (BioShock) are great, but they start to drag after 10 hours of play. Action, FPS... games should be short, and have tons of replayability to them. Habitually I only play through them once and shelve em after. Loooong story lines should be kept to the RPG settings of epic stories like Final Fantasy, Xenosaga... Then again with the 300hours of Baldur's gate, I only sufered it once, even though it was awesome.
  
  If companies want our cash they should trim the fat on the games they make, focus on higher production value and lower price point. If I could play 10 games a month at ~5 hours a piece and $30-40 price point I would be much happied than $60 for a game draging my life away.
  
  I'm an Adult now and have to balance my love for games with 40hour Job + commute time, cleaning the gutters, lawn work, wife, kids, laundry, hygene, social life... Short games are a dream come true for me. The cost of Heavenly Sword is not so much a dream. Sell it for $30 and you hit the sweet spot of perfection.
49. Re:But.... by Mr2001 · 2007-09-20 10:33 · Score: 1
  
  The $400 dollar video card that I bought a few years ago (x800xt) doesn't even meet the minimum requirements for most games out there now. There's your problem... you spent $400 on a video card.
  
  I spent $150 on a video card, about $350 on the rest of my system (I reused an old case and optical drives), and I can play new games (C&C 3, BioShock) at full settings.
  
  In a couple years, maybe I'll have to buy another $150 video card, but so what? That's still cheaper than Xbox Live.
  
  --
  Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
50. Re:But.... by Pojut · 2007-09-20 10:39 · Score: 1
  
  Appreciated, but are you able to do that at 1680 X 1050 resolution (the native resolution of my monitor) along with all the bells and whistles in bioshock (lighting, shadows, etc.) running at a smooth 60 frames per second (or hell, even solid and consistent 40 frames per second). Also, I VERY VERY HIGHLY doubt you can play that game at said 1680 X 1050 resolution with FSAA and AF maxed (or even set halfway) and the game still be smooth. Sorry, gotta call bullshit on that one.
  
  To me, there is no point in playing a game on a computer unless you have it looking it's best and running it's smoothest. If there was no difference between a video card that costs a third as much (and runs slower, and has less onboard ram, and has a different design) then people wouldn't spend as much as they do.
  
  Back when I had disposable income, I had no problem dropping that much money on a video card. Now that I have real life responsibilities, I do have a problem with it.
  
  --
  Living With a Nerd
51. Re:But.... by Mr2001 · 2007-09-20 12:58 · Score: 1
  
  Appreciated, but are you able to do that at 1680 X 1050 resolution (the native resolution of my monitor) along with all the bells and whistles in bioshock (lighting, shadows, etc.) running at a smooth 60 frames per second (or hell, even solid and consistent 40 frames per second). I play at the native resolution of my monitor, which is 1280x1024. Your monitor only has 34% more pixels, so I still wouldn't expect you to need a video card that costs 160% more.
  Also, I VERY VERY HIGHLY doubt you can play that game at said 1680 X 1050 resolution with FSAA and AF maxed (or even set halfway) and the game still be smooth. Sorry, gotta call bullshit on that one. I crank every in-game setting as high as it'll go, and the frame rate is still smooth -- I'll run a benchmark tonight. I haven't seen any slowdown in any game.
  If there was no difference between a video card that costs a third as much (and runs slower, and has less onboard ram, and has a different design) then people wouldn't spend as much as they do. People spend that much because they're obsessed with having the very latest products, whether or not they get a significant boost in performance or quality... and/or because they're gullible and have more money than they know what to do with (see also: $50 HDMI cables). For example, my card doesn't do DX10, and I wouldn't doubt that a DX10 card with the same performance costs a lot more. But who cares? It still looks as good as any console.
  
  --
  Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
52. Re:But.... by Emetophobe · 2007-09-20 19:51 · Score: 1
  
  All those titles sound pretty good, but only Mass Effect and Too Human are xbox 360 exclusives AFAIK. Most of those games you listed will be on the PS3 and/or PC.
  
  I already bought/preordered my copy of The Orange Box and I'm playing the beta of Team Fortress 2 and it's absolutely amazing. I'm a diehard team fortress fan, ever since the original QW:TF, and I love what Valve has done with TF2. I don't really like the fact that Valve removed all grenades, pyro rocket launcher, medic infections, etc.. It's basically a simplified version of team fortress, but it's still amazing. It took me a while to get over the fact that they removed grenades (I was pretty pissed to say the least), but now I'm really starting to enjoy TF2 and it's a solid 10 out of 10. I've actually been itching to play for the last couple hours and I'm probably going to go play after I submit this post.
  
  ps. Look at my sig for my Team Fortress 2 stats.
53. Re:But.... by Mr2001 · 2007-09-20 20:43 · Score: 1
  
  All right. Bioshock doesn't have a built-in benchmark, but with the default driver settings and the in-game settings on maximum, I get a solid 30+ fps through the whole demo, dipping down to 27 in a couple places, but also going up to 40-50 in some areas. With the drivers tweaked to highest quality (6x AA, 16x AF), I get 27-30 overall, minimum about 24, maximum about 43.
  
  --
  Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
54. Re:But.... by Pojut · 2007-09-21 09:24 · Score: 1
  
  Sorry, DEFINATLEY have to call bullshit.
  
  http://www.amdzone.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Sections&file=index&req=viewarticle&artid=315&page=1
  
  There is absolutely no way you are telling the truth, dude.
  
  --
  Living With a Nerd
55. Re:But.... by Mr2001 · 2007-09-21 09:41 · Score: 1
  
  Sorry, but I am telling the truth. I saw it with my own eyes.
  
  Athlon 64 X2 6000+
  Asus M2A-VM
  2 GB DDR-800
  HIS Radeon x1950 Pro 256 MB
  
  I doubt CPU speed is a factor in the difference, since mine only runs at the stock 3.0 GHz and theirs is apparently overclocked to 3.4. But notice that they didn't test any ATI cards, and their chosen 30 seconds of gameplay may well be some of the most complicated parts in the game. My score is only slightly higher than the 7900 GTX at 1280x1024, what's so hard to believe about that?
  
  --
  Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
56. Re:But.... by mink · 2007-09-25 04:01 · Score: 1
  
  I dont know about LCD screens, but I tend to play games at 1600x1200 (4:3 CRT). Is 1680x1050 a valid LCD native resolution?
  
  --
  Well I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years doctor, and I'm happy to say I finally won out over it.
57. Re:But.... by Pojut · 2007-09-25 04:30 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, it's used for some widescreen LCD's (in my case, a Dell 2005FPW)
  
  --
  Living With a Nerd
Re:Whee! by insanius · 2007-09-19 05:45 · Score: 0, Flamebait

preface: i own all 3 current gen consoles...
i love how the ps3 and wii guys take shots at each other and the xbox crowd. all of their arguments are hardware based because they have no games to argue about.
now...what do i want to play today on my 360....decisions, decisions...
last gen? by spazard1 · 2007-09-19 05:45 · Score: 2, Insightful

i thought sony said that rumble was last gen?
1. Re:last gen? by Kohath · 2007-09-19 06:00 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  Way to go. What a zinger! You really zinged them.
  
  That will teach them to try to promote their choices as the best ones. They won't try that again.
  
  I look forward to the future of marketing slogans you've created. "It's only as good as it is", "We like it, but you should make up your own mind", "Adequate. At least for us.", and so on.
  
  No more hype ever. Not for us. Someone on the net might have a counterpoint, after all.
  
  (This post makes me feel British.)
2. Re:last gen? by MobileTatsu-NJG · 2007-09-19 07:33 · Score: 1
  
  "Way to go. What a zinger! You really zinged them."
  
  That's funny if.. like.. you don't know the whole history of the SIXAXIS/Rumble story. To everybody else, it's yet another example of how Sony's been tripping over its arrogance over the last two years. Instead of just saying "We don't want to pay the licensing for it, and we don't think our customers will mind..." they spouted several different stories from technical problems with the unit to claiming it's not a big deal anyway. So yes, you're right, that'll teach them to promote their choices as the best ones, that is when they choose to be dishonest.
  
  There actually are several reasons why Sony's been hard to take seriously lately. A bunch of people didn't spontaneously wake up with a craving to hate them.
  
  --
  
  "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
3. Re:last gen? by Khaed · 2007-09-19 07:50 · Score: 1
  
  There actually are several reasons why Sony's been hard to take seriously lately. A bunch of people didn't spontaneously wake up with a craving to hate them.
  
  and man, if I did wake up with an unusual urge to hate Sony with no actual reason, I might start wearing a tinfoil hat to keep Bill Gates's mind control rays out.
4. Re:last gen? by gamer4Life · 2007-09-19 07:51 · Score: 1
  
  Or because the whole patent was a sham, that Microsoft bought into to prevent Sony from using it - ala SCO.
  
  Microsoft and Immersion are the real villains here. Of course if you're a Microsoft/XBox 360 fanboy, you won't care.
5. Re:last gen? by MobileTatsu-NJG · 2007-09-19 08:05 · Score: 1
  
  "Or because the whole patent was a sham, that Microsoft bought into to prevent Sony from using it - ala SCO."
  
  Yeah, that makes sense. That's why Sony'll never rumble in their controllers. Oh wait...
  
  "Of course if you're a Microsoft/XBox 360 fanboy, you won't care."
  
  I'm not an XBOX fan, yet, I do not care. You'd look less like an overzealous Sony fan if you didn't jump to silly conclusions like that. :)
  
  --
  
  "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
6. Re:last gen? by This_Is_My_Happening · 2007-09-19 08:23 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  MS is a villain in a lot of areas, but not in this case. Immersion sued both MS and Sony for using rumble technology in their consoles without licencing it.
  
  MS bought a share of Immersion as a settlement, while Sony decided to keep fighting and eventually lost. I think it was obvious to both companies at the start that Immersion had a good case - MS quickly decided to settle while Sony decided not to. The 10% share of Immersion that MS bought as a settlement has nothing to do with Sony refusing to settle. If anything, seeing MS settle should have been a good clue to Sony that they might want to settle as well.
  
  Sony paid a lot for their lack of forsight too; It cost MS about 25 million to settle. Sony got stuck with a bill 4 times as much, not counting the years of legal fees. Sony gambled and lost. It was their decision, not MS's.
  
  I'd also like to point out that Immersion isn't the standard patent troll that we hear about on Slashdot all the time. They actively develop and sell their technologies, not just sit on patents and litigate their way to profit like some other companies. MS and Sony both used their designs without permission, and there was a good reason Sony lost their fight. Immersion isnt a villian either.
  
  Side note: Nintendo wasn't sued because their rumble technology works differently, and was developed in house. Immersion has a patent on a specific method of providing rumble feedback, not just rumble feedback in general. Since Nintendo used a different method, they were fine. MS and Sony (for some dumb reason) both decided to use the same method Immersion had patented.
  
  --
  God made me an atheist. Who are you to question his wisdom?
7. Re:last gen? by Kohath · 2007-09-19 08:47 · Score: 1
  
  you don't know the whole history of the SIXAXIS/Rumble story
  
  Sure I do.
  
  it's yet another example of how Sony's been tripping over its arrogance over the last two years
  
  That's a fine opinion. I guess I don't care about "arrogance", whether it be imagined or real, lasting two years or more or less. It's a game console. The arrogance is just a bonus. You can have the arrogance I got with mine, BTW, I'm not using it.
  
  You may want to be in love with the company that makes your game console. I don't have that requirement.
  
  they spouted several different stories from technical problems with the unit to claiming it's not a big deal anyway. So yes, you're right, that'll teach them to promote their choices as the best ones, that is when they choose to be dishonest.
  
  You don't know that much about marketing and advertisement, do you? Every advertising and marketing claim can be considered dishonest from some perspective of ultimate purity (or if you are the competition).
  
  They never claimed to have rumble. That would be a straight-up lie.
  
  Why should anyone care why? If you knew why, would your games would be more fun? What's the specific benefit to knowing why? (Everyone knew it was because of the Immersion dispute anyway. I guess knowing that has been making my DVDs have higher resolution and better sound all along. Hmm.)
  
  There actually are several reasons why Sony's been hard to take seriously lately. A bunch of people didn't spontaneously wake up with a craving to hate them.
  
  Got to hate someone, right? You can't, um, just buy or not buy a product based on what it does versus what you want and how much money it costs. Hate is required. Needed.
  
  (It calls us, waking us at night, putting orangish images in our heads with flashes of teeth. We have directed it, but have not tamed it. It is still wild, it is. We must hold it tightly...)
8. Re:last gen? by MobileTatsu-NJG · 2007-09-19 09:09 · Score: 1
  
  "You may want to be in love with the company that makes your game console. I don't have that requirement."
  
  Right. If you have a PS3 right now, you purchased it as an investment. That means the stuff they do down the road is important to you. You care whether you're part of a flame war or not.
  
  "Why should anyone care why? If you knew why, would your games would be more fun? What's the specific benefit to knowing why"
  
  You'd care if the company selling you stuff was lying to you, right? No? Okay, you're a good little consumer keeping the economy alive. I admire that.
  
  "You can't, um, just buy or not buy a product based on what it does versus what you want and how much money it costs. Hate is required. Needed."
  
  Amusingly, I wouldn't be replying to a post right now if you took your own advice.
  
  --
  
  "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
9. Re:last gen? by Kohath · 2007-09-19 09:17 · Score: 1
  
  you purchased it as an investment.
  
  It's a game and Blu-Ray player. I play games and Blu-Rays on it.
  
  You'd care if the company selling you stuff was lying to you, right? No?
  
  I focus on what matters to me. Then I check whether it meets my requirements. I didn't buy it thinking it had feature X and then later find out it didn't. I checked before I bought it.
  
  If any company is guilty of that kind of thing, it's Microsoft, BTW. I don't think people bought their 360 thinking it would crap-out on them. (Nothing against the 360. I may buy one when they have a more reliable one. It has some great exclusive games.)
  
  Amusingly, I wouldn't be replying to a post right now if you took your own advice.
  
  I like pie.
10. Re:last gen? by MobileTatsu-NJG · 2007-09-19 09:30 · Score: 1
  
  "It's a game and Blu-Ray player. I play games and Blu-Rays on it."
  
  Exactly. That includes games and movies that are coming in the future. In an extreme case, if Sony suddenly folded up shop on the whole PS3 thing, I seriously seriously doubt you'd be anything but pissed off about it.
  
  "I didn't buy it thinking it had feature X and then later find out it didn't. I checked before I bought it."
  
  That's great. But you still didn't buy a system without some form of trust with them. In the case of a game console, you trust that more games to your liking will be published, you trust that their online services will work, you trust that their systems will last a few years, etc. It may not bother you personally if you cannot believe the words coming from their press-releases, but that doesn't mean everybody else should just take everything they say at face value.
  
  "If any company is guilty of that kind of thing, it's Microsoft, BTW. I don't think people bought their 360 thinking it would crap-out on them. "
  
  Boy do I agree with that. You should NOT have to feel like you need to purchase that Best Buy warrantee when you buy a system. Evil.
  
  --
  
  "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
11. Re:last gen? by KDR_11k · 2007-09-19 09:44 · Score: 1
  
  MS and Sony (for some dumb reason) both decided to use the same method Immersion had patented.
  
  They were probably dodging Nintendo's patent, it's very unlikely that they would have been able to settle with Nintendo or license the patent from them.
  
  --
  Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
12. Re:last gen? by poofyhairguy82 · 2007-09-19 13:58 · Score: 1
  
  In an extreme case, if Sony suddenly folded up shop on the whole PS3 thing, I seriously seriously doubt you'd be anything but pissed off about it.
  No- I would continue to play my old PS2 games, Blue Ray movies, and my ripped dvd collection sitting on its hard drive like I do now.
  Amazingly enough, for some people what the Playstation 3 offers other than games designed for it (blue ray, upconverts DVDs and PS2 games so they don't look like crap on my TV, play ripped movies and music, etc.) make it worth the money. If it wasn't for the PS3, I would have put together a MUCH more expensive computer (seeing as how expensive Blue Ray computer drives are) for my living room to do the same thing. I didn't buy it for any game and neither did most of those who have it- being the cheapest Blue Ray player on the market is enough...
  
  --
  Open Source Sushi
13. Re:last gen? by SethraLavode · 2007-09-20 03:25 · Score: 1
  
  Side note: Nintendo wasn't sued because their rumble technology works differently, and was developed in house. Immersion has a patent on a specific method of providing rumble feedback, not just rumble feedback in general.
  On a side note to your side note, I really hope that when Nintendo starts work on the successor to the DS, they pay a visit to Immersion and license their haptic touchscreen technology.
14. Re:last gen? by buffer-overflowed · 2007-09-20 09:07 · Score: 1
  
  I wonder if that be combined with Sharp's 3D Parallax LCD tech? Because that would be cool as hell.
  
  --
  The key to the enjoyment of pop music is to replace any instance of "love" with "C.H.U.D."
Remember this? by igotmybfg · 2007-09-19 05:57 · Score: 2, Informative

"We have no plans to do so in the standard controller that ships with PlayStation 3. I believe that the Sixaxis controller offers game designers and developers far more opportunity for future innovation than rumble ever did. Now, rumble I think was the last generation feature; it's not the next-generation feature. I think motion sensitivity is. And we don't see the need to do that." - Phil Harrison, President, Sony Worldwide, 26 Feb 2007

hahaha
1. Re:Remember this? by Gravatron · 2007-09-19 06:24 · Score: 1
  
  What exactly would they say? They were being SUED at the time. I think Phil even later admitted that. All it was was trying to spin a bad situation. I'd wadger this controller has been in prototype for a long, long time and now is the first time they can really show it off with games.
2. Re:Remember this? by nickyj · 2007-09-19 07:08 · Score: 1
  
  Prototype for a long time??? Do you remember the boomerang controller? They haven't change anything. They really need to change it to make it more ergonomic or cooler or something, but their controller is the only one that is still last gen looking.
  
  --
  Causing Chaos Everywhere,
  Nik J.
  The strange world of a loner, in a populous city, drowning in society
3. Re:Remember this? by revengebomber · 2007-09-19 09:42 · Score: 1
  
  Maybe the controller won't ever come packaged with a system? Maybe it won't have any SIXAXIS, and you'll have to choose.
  
  --
  09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
  45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
Adding Rumble helps, but please fix the rest... by trdrstv · 2007-09-19 06:00 · Score: 3, Interesting

Ok, I missed Rumble (at least in MotorStorm), but please can you fix a few other things while you're at it?
1) Sixaxis Tilt is Not nearly sensitive enough to be useful. Please figure out a Fix or Hire someone who worked on ExciteTruck to do it for you.
2) The R2 & L2 Buttonie-trigger thing. Either make them proper buttons (like L1, R1), or triggers (like the 360), don't care which but this inbetween solution you have now is bad.
3) Swap the left Analog and Dpad. MS, Nintendo and Sega all did so because it is more comfortable to play 3D games that way. Bolting the Dual analogs at the bottom made sense in the PS1 era, but not 2 gens later.
4) User replaceable Battery. Make it AAA, AA, or Proprietary; I don't care which so long as I can swap it with another in a few seconds without disassembly.
1. Re:Adding Rumble helps, but please fix the rest... by Ang31us · 2007-09-19 06:16 · Score: 1
  
  "Hire someone who worked on ExciteTruck to do it for you."
  
  AMEN, my brutha! Excite Truck's tilt control using the WiiMote is an excellent model for how Sony should implement tilt control on the SixAxis rumble. While Sony gets to work on fixing the issues you listed, I have an item to add to your list:
  
  5) Bring the price down to $250, so I will be willing to buy one for my living room.
2. Re:Adding Rumble helps, but please fix the rest... by ivan256 · 2007-09-19 06:31 · Score: 0, Troll
  
  Swap the left Analog and Dpad. MS, Nintendo and Sega all did so because it is more comfortable to play 3D games that way.
  
  5. Don't listen to this guy. Leave the D-Pad right where it is. It's 1000x better that way. If you're going to move them, put them in the same place on both sides of the controller. If you're going to move them up, you'll have to make the controller wider, otherwise your thumbs won't be properly aligned with the analog sticks.
  
  Also: Somebody get this guy a copy of super-rub-a-dub, or something so he can realize that the problems he's having with the tilt are because of the game developers, not the controller....
3. Re:Adding Rumble helps, but please fix the rest... by Anonymous Coward · 2007-09-19 06:45 · Score: 0
  
  3) Swap the left Analog and Dpad. MS, Nintendo and Sega all did so because it is more comfortable to play 3D games that way. Bolting the Dual analogs at the bottom made sense in the PS1 era, but not 2 gens later.
  
  Your opinion. I don't get much difference, nor does my extremely coordination-challenged gf. Nintendo put it there because the majority of games were still using the d-pad for movement. Microsoft put it there because Nintendo gamers were used to it there. Or maybe Sony has the layout patented (seems unlikely). PS[1-3] gamers are used to the stick placement, and if you want another console, the competition is over that-a-way.
4. Re:Adding Rumble helps, but please fix the rest... by Pojut · 2007-09-19 07:16 · Score: 1
  
  Sorry, but I gotta agree with the "swap location" group...I find that I have to actually stretch my thumb slightly to use a Playstation controller as opposed to simply resting my hand as it falls on the xbox/360/gamecube controller...I also find that my hand gets fatigued quicker on a Playstation controller than it does on either of the others.
  
  Anytime I have to adjust how my hands naturally rest on a controller into a position where I have to use muscle control to KEEP them in that position...yeah, that's what they call a bad design.
  
  --
  Living With a Nerd
5. Re:Adding Rumble helps, but please fix the rest... by Chris+Burke · 2007-09-19 07:17 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  5. Don't listen to this guy. Leave the D-Pad right where it is. It's 1000x better that way. If you're going to move them, put them in the same place on both sides of the controller. If you're going to move them up, you'll have to make the controller wider, otherwise your thumbs won't be properly aligned with the analog sticks.
  
  Don't listen to the guy who thinks unnecessary hand stress is 1000x better. No, really. Putting the most used control down and to the right means you have to bend your thumb outward away from it's natural configuration. The reason you don't put them in the same place on both sides is because on the right side you want the buttons to be where it is most natural to push them -- imagine if they put the 4 primary buttons where the right analog stick is now. Hard to hit them, right? Right, because it's an unnatural position. The goal is to have the most neutral hand position for the most common items. MS and N understand this.
  
  Back in the PS1, when the DPad was the most common item, Sony put the analog stick where it is for that reason. Keeping it out of the way of the DPad, so the DPad would be just as familiar and comfortable as it used to be. There was no excuse for keeping it in the same place on the PS2, and for the PS3 still having the mostly useless DPad where the thumb most naturally rests is idiotic. They keep it that way solely because of the brand recognition. But some people have convinced themselves that these historical reasons that de-emphasized the analog stick are actually ergonomic reasons that favor the analog stick. That the current location is the ideal spot for the analog stick, even though it was originally put in that spot exactly because it isn't the ideal spot for primary input.
  
  If you really think down and to the right is the best, most optimal and comfortable position for the primary input method, why did zero controllers have that setup with the Dpad? The original PS1 controller didn't put the D-pad or buttons in that area, they put it in the upward position so that it's easiest to reach, just like everyone else.
  
  --
  
  The enemies of Democracy are
6. Re:Adding Rumble helps, but please fix the rest... by bigstrat2003 · 2007-09-19 07:22 · Score: 1
  
  Don't listen to the guy who thinks unnecessary hand stress is 1000x better. Don't listen to this guy...
  *waits for a "Don't listen to this guy" post in response*
  In all seriousness, I do disagree, though. There's nothing wrong with the way the controller is now.
  
  --
  "16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
7. Re:Adding Rumble helps, but please fix the rest... by MDiehr · 2007-09-19 07:33 · Score: 1
  
  1000x better? Try pressing L1/L2 while using the left analog stick. It kind of sucks, you have to make a big letter C with your left hand.
8. Re:Adding Rumble helps, but please fix the rest... by British · 2007-09-19 08:11 · Score: 1
  
  3) Swap the left Analog and Dpad. MS, Nintendo and Sega all did so because it is more comfortable to play 3D games that way. Bolting the Dual analogs at the bottom made sense in the PS1 era, but not 2 gens later.
  
  How come no 3rd party(Mad Catz, etc) has done this yet? You would think they would sell d-pad/left analog swapped game pads for PS2 or PS3 by the truck load to Xbox converts.
  
  As for the analog triggers, they should have made them concave-shaped so your fingers don't slip off in all the action. I guess they were more concerned with their "me too" functionality.
  
  As for the battery life, that's why I stick with wired controllers + extension cord. It's no big deal to me to have a wire to the console.
9. Re:Adding Rumble helps, but please fix the rest... by sanosuke001 · 2007-09-19 08:27 · Score: 1
  
  so.... your thumb gets fatigued because the left stick is on the bottom? Well, how about the right stick? You do know that your left hand is the mirror image of your right... it should be equal if indeed it happens. I think you're full of shit. Either that, or you have tiny hands... Either way, the right one should still give you trouble just as must as the left one does.
  
  I can't stand that the Xbox controller has them misaligned. It makes me have to hold the controller at an angle to work with them both.
  
  --
  -SaNo
10. Re:Adding Rumble helps, but please fix the rest... by ivan256 · 2007-09-19 08:28 · Score: 1
  
  Don't listen to the guy who thinks unnecessary hand stress is 1000x better. No, really. Putting the most used control down and to the right means you have to bend your thumb outward away from it's natural configuration.
  
  Whether you have to bend your thumb down to get to where the lower control is has to do with the width of the controller, where you grip the controller, and how far apart your elbows are when you hold the controller.
  
  If you're bending your thumbs to reach the analog stick, you're holding the controller wrong, plain and simple.
  
  I really honestly don't give a shit why they didn't put the D-pad there in the first place. The original Playstation controller from pre-DualShock was a total piece of crap. Using their rationale for the design of that particular product to justify the movement of the controls today is just plain broken, and a stupid rhetorical argument anyway.
11. Re:Adding Rumble helps, but please fix the rest... by Pojut · 2007-09-19 08:30 · Score: 1
  
  Actually, yes, my right thumb in certain genres (FPS comes to mind) does in fact get tired faster than my left with with an xbox/360/gamcube controller. And with a playstation controller, with certain genres, they do both get fatigued just as quickly.
  
  --
  Living With a Nerd
12. Re:Adding Rumble helps, but please fix the rest... by Pojut · 2007-09-19 08:35 · Score: 1
  
  One other thing. If you have to hold a controller at a weird angle just so you can keep your hands in their natural position, then it is quite clear which gaming system was your first.
  
  Either that, or you're full of shit. (See how stupid that sounds?)
  
  --
  Living With a Nerd
13. Re:Adding Rumble helps, but please fix the rest... by MS-06FZ · 2007-09-19 08:53 · Score: 1
  
  3) Swap the left Analog and Dpad. MS, Nintendo and Sega all did so because it is more comfortable to play 3D games that way. Bolting the Dual analogs at the bottom made sense in the PS1 era, but not 2 gens later. Oh, yuck. No way in hell do I want that. Analog sticks are fine where they are. Beautiful symmetry.
  
  Those L2/R2 triggers are a mess, though, as you say. I shudder to think what it'd be like trying to play "Amplitude" on a controller like that...
  
  --
  ---GEC
  I'm but the humble pupil, seeking to snatch the scratchbuilt pebble from the master's fully articulated hand
14. Re:Adding Rumble helps, but please fix the rest... by Chris+Burke · 2007-09-19 09:03 · Score: 1
  
  If you're bending your thumbs to reach the analog stick, you're holding the controller wrong, plain and simple.
  
  Wrong, how it's designed to be held, same difference. They made the controller wrong. Unless your forearms are at 180 degrees, you're bending your thumb to reach the sticks. If they made the controller correctly, there would be no issue of having to hold it "right" where "right" means "unlike the handgrips are designed for you to hold it".
  
  I really honestly don't give a shit why they didn't put the D-pad there in the first place. The original Playstation controller from pre-DualShock was a total piece of crap. Using their rationale for the design of that particular product to justify the movement of the controls today is just plain broken, and a stupid rhetorical argument anyway.
  
  Uh, it's the rationale behind which the analog stick ended up in its current position; you're relying on it to justify not moving the stick like it or not.
  
  I agree the original PSX controller was a piece of crap. And then they hacked analog controls onto that piece of crap, resulting in the piece of crap knows as Dual Shock. They didn't change anything about the controller other than to add awkwardly placed analog sticks. The idea that a piece of crap that was then hacked to add additional controls just by chance ended up having the ideal position of those controls, while everyone who designed those controls in from the beginning did it wrong, is just silly.
  
  Non-crap controllers put the analog stick in the right place, because they were designed with the analog stick from the beginning. The crappiness of the original PSX controller is not an argument against that, it's just an example of why playstation controllers have continued to suck: Their designers can't make good controllers, and their fans convince themselves that it's the opposite and everyone else is the crappy designer, so they don't ask for better.
  
  --
  
  The enemies of Democracy are
15. Re:Adding Rumble helps, but please fix the rest... by bigstrat2003 · 2007-09-19 09:22 · Score: 1
  
  their fans convince themselves that it's the opposite and everyone else is the crappy designer, so they don't ask for better. That's one of the most idiotic things I've ever seen on slashdot. Do you seriously believe that no one actually likes the controllers? Not everyone agrees with you. Deal with it, rather than throwing fanboy-like accusations.
  
  --
  "16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
16. Re:Adding Rumble helps, but please fix the rest... by G+Fab · 2007-09-19 09:34 · Score: 1
  
  Sony could reduce the size of the analog stick that moved to dpad location. I believe this would be a better controller, but aside from that I love how sony hasn't screwed much with their controller since they ripped off the SNES controller. Now, they have a real brand image that looks nice and cool.
  
  But if it were really this much of an enhancement, why don't I see a logitech PS3 controller in this configuration? I suspect that in practice you might be right about the analog sticks needing to be symmetrical.
  
  I would love it if the battery were user replaceable and the unit recharged, but I'd pick the PS3 controller over the wiimote any day of the week... swapping batteries is usually lamer than recharging, and the PS3 controller doesn't die if you recharge it on a regular basis.
  
  Anyway, the parent isn't that far off from what most folks think.
17. Re:Adding Rumble helps, but please fix the rest... by KDR_11k · 2007-09-19 09:55 · Score: 1
  
  I guess third parties are just too uncreative to change anything about the controller. Hell, you couldn't even get a PC gamepad with a properly positioned analog stick before the XBox 360 controller came out.
  
  --
  Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
18. Re:Adding Rumble helps, but please fix the rest... by MikeBabcock · 2007-09-19 10:15 · Score: 1
  
  Parent is not a troll -- the motion sensitivity is *very* sensitive. Play super rub'a'dub or any other game that uses the tilt functions heavily and you'll see how sensitive it can be. Watch the replays of the top players in super rub'a'dub to realize how precise it *must* be to let them do what they do.
  
  As for the analog layout, my thumbs reach the sticks fine, with no funny bending, and I have great control, I just wish the L2 and R2 were concave as the other comment mentionned.
  
  --
  - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
19. Re:Adding Rumble helps, but please fix the rest... by Chris+Burke · 2007-09-19 10:33 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  Do you seriously believe that no one actually likes the controllers?
  
  Don't be ridiculous. Of course people actually like it. I think a lot of them would also like a controller with the analog control swapped even more if they gave it a chance. And I think there are those who wouldn't prefer the analog-up configuration, even if that was the controller Sony had originally came out with. Yet that wasn't the controller came out with, they came out with Dual Shock, and that controller is the one many people cut their teeth on analog gaming with. Our preferences frequently depend on tons of subjective things, like nostalgia, what we're used to, as opposed to more objective things, like hand stress. There's nothing wrong with having that preference. Nothing wrong with saying "I just like it".
  
  There is something wrong with acting like a historical quirk is actually a superior design, that the design could not be improved in simple ways. Look at your relaxed hand, and the angle made between thumb and forefinger. Imagine your forefinger wrapped around the outside of a controller. Your thumb would naturally be resting slightly below the tip of your index finger. Create a controller to put into this relaxed hand, and you'd get the primary controls placed where they are on the Xbox, Gamecube, heck even the pre-dualshock and just about every game pad ever made.
  
  There's a reason that nobody who was designing a controller without the historical baggage of the Dual Shock put the primary control where Sony did. There's a reason that Sony did put it there, and it was aforementioned historical baggage, not because it was the best place to put it if you were considering a from-scratch design. The whole point of the Dual Shock design was that the analog was not considered the primary control. Deny that, and yeah, I'm going to refer to Sony fans convincing themselves that whatever Sony does is inherently the best.
  
  Oh hey, I just remembered there's a counterexample to the rule -- the Wii Classic controller also has the dpad up and the left analog down. Oddly enough, it too has historical baggage in the sense that it is designed to play games which range from the NES to the GC. Like the Dual Shock, it's designed with the d-pad as primary for that reason, though in my brief experience with it I think it's even less comfortable than Dual Shock. Good thing I have my GC controller -- though I'll probably use the wiimote for NES titles, since using the DPad on the GC controller is just as uncomfortable as using the analog stick on the Dual Shock.
  
  --
  
  The enemies of Democracy are
20. Re:Adding Rumble helps, but please fix the rest... by bigstrat2003 · 2007-09-19 10:45 · Score: 1
  
  Deny that, and yeah, I'm going to refer to Sony fans convincing themselves that whatever Sony does is inherently the best. Yes, but what you said was that anyone who doesn't think Sony's design is inferior is being a fanboy (you didn't say fanboy, but you gave the standard definition of one). You didn't allow for the fact that people might actually prefer the design! I find the Dual Shocks extremely comfortable, and I prefer them to the 360 controllers (I won't touch the abomination that was the original Xbox controller) due to button placements, which work better for me. The sticks aren't better or worse, both designs work equally well. And I'm hardly of the opinion Sony makes the best, because to this day, the GC controller remains my favorite (they must have worked deep magic to get the controller to fit my hands so perfectly).
  While it may not have been what you were trying to say, what you came across as saying was akin to someone saying that anyone who doesn't like the GUI in Mac OS is a liar, because it's objectively provable to be the best design.
  
  --
  "16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
21. Re:Adding Rumble helps, but please fix the rest... by buffer-overflowed · 2007-09-19 11:25 · Score: 1
  
  The analog sticks being in the position there in has nothing to do with ergonomics and everything to do with the fact they were tacked onto what was effectively an SNES controller with extended grips.
  
  Which is precisely why the classic controller for the Wii has them in the same place.
  
  --
  The key to the enjoyment of pop music is to replace any instance of "love" with "C.H.U.D."
22. Re:Adding Rumble helps, but please fix the rest... by Anonymous Coward · 2007-09-19 11:32 · Score: 0
  
  FWIW, I hold the PS2 and PS3 controllers with the grip prongs resting on the bottom three fingers of each hand past the first joint (sometimes just two if I need to use both shoulder buttons on both sides a lot). In this configuration, the current location of the sticks is obviously the most natural location for them. In order to reproduce the "hand stress" you talk about, I have to shift my grip way down so that the prongs are resting in my palms, which is an absurd way to hold the controller.
  
  Short answer: the problem is you.
  
  (As for why they didn't put the D-pad there, that location isn't nearly as natural for that grip with the much lower profile and much greater needed downward force of a D-pad)
23. Re:Adding Rumble helps, but please fix the rest... by Chris+Burke · 2007-09-19 11:33 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, but what you said was that anyone who doesn't think Sony's design is inferior is being a fanboy (you didn't say fanboy, but you gave the standard definition of one). You didn't allow for the fact that people might actually prefer the design!
  
  No, that's not what I said. I said fanboys convince themselves that Sony's design is superior, and it was directed at the person I was replying to. That's not the same as saying everyone who likes the Dual Shock is a fanboy.
  
  While it may not have been what you were trying to say, what you came across as saying was akin to someone saying that anyone who doesn't like the GUI in Mac OS is a liar, because it's objectively provable to be the best design.
  
  Well, okay, you're right, I did come across too strong and it is my fault. Because while I don't think that anyone who likes the Dual Shock is somehow lying about liking it, I do think that it is objectively provable that the most natural position for the human thumb at rest would place it over where MS, Nintendo, and every other game pad maker puts their primary input controls. Even Sony puts the right-hand primary controls there, and used to put the left hand primary controls there. I think it's obvious the only reason Sony didn't put it there is for historical reasons. I can't tell you that you don't find it comfortable, I can't tell you that you aren't allowed to like it. I can say it's bad design.
  
  I mean, a kinesthesiologist could come in and prove to you using whatever measurements it took that your favorite chair was terrible for you and damaging your spine and causing a thousand other problems. That doesn't mean you would suddenly stop liking the chair, or that you would stop being comfortable in it. Our likes and dislikes are more complex than that. However your liking the chair would not change it from being unergonomic, either. Or I should say "I", since I like both chairs and sitting positions that are completely bad for me.
  
  I'm no kinesthesiologist, I just can't shake the feeling that people's affinity for the dual shock is the same thing -- learned. The feeling that if millions hadn't gotten into 3d gaming with a Dual Shock, there'd be basically nobody who preferred that configuration.
  
  --
  
  The enemies of Democracy are
24. Re:Adding Rumble helps, but please fix the rest... by Chris+Burke · 2007-09-19 11:36 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah, I know, and the idea that this somehow by chance happens to be the most ergonomic design just seems silly to me. The implication is that the d-pad on the original psx controller is poorly placed and unergonomic...
  
  --
  
  The enemies of Democracy are
25. Re:Adding Rumble helps, but please fix the rest... by Chris+Burke · 2007-09-19 11:47 · Score: 1
  
  so.... your thumb gets fatigued because the left stick is on the bottom? Well, how about the right stick? You do know that your left hand is the mirror image of your right... it should be equal if indeed it happens. I think you're full of shit. Either that, or you have tiny hands... Either way, the right one should still give you trouble just as must as the left one does.
  
  Exactly! It is the same. Yet why after a marathon session of GTA:SA does my left hand hurt and not my right? Because like in most games the left hand is on the analog stick all the time controlling my character, while the right hand is hitting buttons which are -- surprise! -- in the natural upward position. The right analog stick is used for camera controls or other features where it's okay to stretch your thumb occasionaly. The face buttons are the primary input device for the right hand by the design of the controller. The primary input for the left hand is the same as it was on the PSX, the D-pad.
  
  For games where the right analog is used equally -- mostly FPSes -- then the complaint applies equally. This is part of why FPS controls suck on every dual analog controller. When playing Time Splitters on the Game Cube it was only the right hand that complained because my left was comfortable.
  
  --
  
  The enemies of Democracy are
26. Re:Adding Rumble helps, but please fix the rest... by Chris+Burke · 2007-09-19 11:50 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah, just like there weren't any (to my knowledge browsing at best buy and fry's :P) 3rd party GC controllers that had normal shaped/sized face buttons. I mean it's usually not about being creative, it's about being a cheap knockoff with rapid fire or other basic features.
  
  --
  
  The enemies of Democracy are
27. Re:Adding Rumble helps, but please fix the rest... by macshit · 2007-09-19 12:33 · Score: 1
  
  But if it were really this much of an enhancement, why don't I see a logitech PS3 controller in this configuration?
  
  There actually are 3rd-party PS2 controllers sold in Japan with the left analog and dpad swapped. I don't know the brand, or if they're also available in other countries.
  
  Sony has always been bad at controller design, and the analogue stick placement is IMHO the dualshock's worst flaw. Sony, unfortunately, seems to not particularly care about the ergonomics of the controller -- and what little attention they devote to it seems focused more on how it looks ("oooooh, it's symmetric")! The PSP controller has the same damn issue, and it doesn't even have backwards compatibility as an excuse!
  
  --
  We live, as we dream -- alone....
28. Re:Adding Rumble helps, but please fix the rest... by toolie · 2007-09-19 13:28 · Score: 1
  
  5. Don't listen to this guy. Leave the D-Pad right where it is. It's 1000x better that way. If you're going to move them, put them in the same place on both sides of the controller. If you're going to move them up, you'll have to make the controller wider, otherwise your thumbs won't be properly aligned with the analog sticks. Anybody want to take a guess what who in this conversation has never worked with, or for, a human factors group?
  
  --
  -- toolie
29. Re:Adding Rumble helps, but please fix the rest... by NeMon'ess · 2007-09-19 18:39 · Score: 1
  
  You're declaring symmetry is more important than comfort and usability? You have some strange priorities.
30. Re:Adding Rumble helps, but please fix the rest... by Chris+Burke · 2007-09-20 01:19 · Score: 1
  
  FWIW, I hold the PS2 and PS3 controllers with the grip prongs resting on the bottom three fingers of each hand past the first joint (sometimes just two if I need to use both shoulder buttons on both sides a lot). In this configuration, the current location of the sticks is obviously the most natural location for them. In order to reproduce the "hand stress" you talk about, I have to shift my grip way down so that the prongs are resting in my palms, which is an absurd way to hold the controller.
  
  Uh-huh. I hold them the same way, two fingers under the prong, index and middle finger curled around the top to use the shoulder buttons. Which means my index finger is pointing straight up, while my thumbs are angled out. Hold up your hand. Let it relax. Notice how your thumb is roughly parallel with your index finger to the first knuckle. Notice how the side of the Dual Shock is not even close to parallel with the line from the grip to the analog controllers. Our thumbs don't naturally stick out like that; you're pulling them out.
  
  You're experiencing the stress, you probably don't notice it because it's "normal" to you. Congrats, you've demonstrated the human ability to adapt to crap. The controller should be adapted for the human hand, not vice versa.
  
  But yeah, I can only imagine how awkward the original PSX controller must have been for you. "Why are there no buttons here, where my thumbs 'naturally' lay?!"
  
  --
  
  The enemies of Democracy are
31. Re:Adding Rumble helps, but please fix the rest... by MS-06FZ · 2007-09-20 04:19 · Score: 1
  
  You're declaring symmetry is more important than comfort and usability? You have some strange priorities. I don't think comfort or usability are a problem with the Dual Shock, or chances are I wouldn't like the controller, dur-hey. My favorite PS2 games, the Armored Core series, use the analog sticks as the primary controls (for the last 4-5 years, anyway...) so it's not as though I'm not using these controls.
  
  --
  ---GEC
  I'm but the humble pupil, seeking to snatch the scratchbuilt pebble from the master's fully articulated hand
32. Re:Adding Rumble helps, but please fix the rest... by NeMon'ess · 2007-09-20 07:13 · Score: 1
  
  Meanwhile about what percentage of all the other critically well-received games use the left analog stick and the buttons on the right?
33. Re:Adding Rumble helps, but please fix the rest... by MS-06FZ · 2007-09-20 07:42 · Score: 1
  
  Meanwhile about what percentage of all the other critically well-received games use the left analog stick and the buttons on the right? I believe it's precisely "I don't give a shit" percent.
  
  Why would I? If they use the left analog stick and the buttons on the right... then my left thumb will be on the left stick, my right thumb will be on the buttons. What's the problem?
  
  I mean, there was a trick in Amplitude in which getting to the analog stick was a bit of a challenge - but that was only because the trick involved working the D-pad and the left analog stick simultaneously to move around the board faster - kind of an "unintended feature" I think - so you needed to get to the left stick with the right thumb... But left stick with left thumb? No fucking problem.
  
  --
  ---GEC
  I'm but the humble pupil, seeking to snatch the scratchbuilt pebble from the master's fully articulated hand
34. Re:Adding Rumble helps, but please fix the rest... by NeMon'ess · 2007-09-22 09:50 · Score: 1
  
  The problem is the left hand is positioned down the controller and the thumb has farther to reach than when manipulating the d-pad. Since you're used to dual shock shape I'm guessing you don't expect a controller to contour into you palms. You're used to the nubby ends of the dual shock.
  
  As for your don't give a shit percent. So your argument is Sony shouldn't change it because a very small minority of games play more comfortably since both analog sticks are regularly used. Meanwhile comfort for the other games shouldn't matter.
Sod that! Women can use dildos instead, but... by Anonymous Coward · 2007-09-19 06:03 · Score: 0

where are the bloody PS3 steering wheels? We've more racing games than you can shake a stick at, and yet there are no official wheels for the PS3 in the US (and Europe?). Just a hope and pray selection for the PS2, which may or may not be supported properly. Which the manufacturer, game publishers and sony won't create a definitive list of what products fully work with with games.
"almost a certainty" != confirmed by Shadowlore · 2007-09-19 06:07 · Score: 1, Insightful

Subject says it all.

--
My Suburban burns less gasoline than your Prius.
1. Re:"almost a certainty" != confirmed by Anonymous Coward · 2007-09-19 06:59 · Score: 0
  
  we'll see after tomorrow
2. Re:"almost a certainty" != confirmed by brkello · 2007-09-19 06:59 · Score: 2, Funny
  
  The sun will come up tomorrow.
  
  This can't be 100% confirmed, but still, I will guarantee you it is going to happen.
  
  --
  Support a great indie game: http://www.abaddon360.com
3. Re:"almost a certainty" != confirmed by Shadowlore · 2007-09-19 13:29 · Score: 1
  
  I love slashdot. Where pointing out a fact that saying something is "almost a certainty" is not the same thing as "confirmed" gets labeled a troll. It's one of the reasons I hang out here, funny stuff like that. What did I step on a few fanboi's toes? That'd be funny as hell given I own and applaud my PS3, have zero interest in Xbox or 360. I'm no fan boy but the PS2 and PS3 are the consoles used in this house.
  
  Still, it is a fact that "almost a certainty" is not the same thing as confirmed. Confirmed would be, for example, Sony making an official statement saying "yes we are going to make one", not "we are considering various options" or similar.
  
  It's not insightful, but it isn't a troll either, it is a statement of fact.
  
  I bet if someone said MS has confirmed Linux is superior, but then said it was "almost a certainty" that they would do that, I'd not get modded troll for saying what I said here.
  
  You can't pay for entertainment this good, people.
  
  On second thought perhaps I should have added something like "a rumble controller still wouldn't save Lair". Then the "insightful"s would come a knockin down my door. ;)
  
  And if you take this post as anything less then humorous sarcasm (except the fact stated in the original), well then my friend you might want to consider your own biases and sense of humor. ;)
  
  --
  My Suburban burns less gasoline than your Prius.
4. Re:"almost a certainty" != confirmed by Anonymous Coward · 2007-09-19 15:26 · Score: 0
  
  It is "almost a certainty" that the parent post is a complaining about his lost karma points but this is has yet to be an official announcement.
  I bet if someone said MS has confirmed Linux is superior, but then said it was "almost a certainty" that they would do that, I'd not get modded troll for saying what I said here.
  Actually, you would. Its simply a matter of evidence vs. unsubstantiated claims. Show us a MS employee claiming to have an official internal memo, show us an announcement from MS stating that they will be making an official announcement the next day but not release the details, show us a news report saying that "Possible secret software development assistance given to Microsoft by several key Linux developers, details tomorrow" and we'd believe you. Otherwise, we'd mod you as flamebait or troll.
  In this case its simply a matter of :
  In fact, the controller we were using to play the demo looked exactly like a standard Sixaxis, except that it had a sticker on the bottom that said "RUMBLE."
  A formal announcement is expected tomorrow at Kaz Hirai's keynote address.
$ony by Swordopolis · 2007-09-19 06:08 · Score: 1

Hooray for having to buy all new controllers again! I'm sure your average PS3 owner is going to enjoy buying 2-4 of these new things at $50 a pop. Just when I'd thought that their old ways of nickel-and-diming you with peripherals had disappeared.............

--
Alchemist: Be Thou For the People
1. Re:$ony by TriezGamer · 2007-09-19 06:21 · Score: 1
  
  I would buy new controllers with rumble features, but I wouldn't replace a perfectly functional controller at that price. I don't have a PS3, but if I did, I'd wait till my current controller(s) died before replacing it just for a rumble feature.
2. Re:$ony by Anonymous Coward · 2007-09-19 08:01 · Score: 0
  
  Why is this a problem?
  
  If you like not having rumble, then you can keep your current controllers. You lose nothing. No one is taking anything away from you. You're not missing features of new games, because you've already said you don't want rumble. The new rumble enhanced games will play 100% fine with your current controller.
  
  But if you like rumble, now you can get it.
  
  It's almost a year after the PS3's release. This is not like apple did with the iPhone where they doubled the memory for 2/3 the price within a month or two. If a car manufacturer offered the same car a year later with upgraded features, would you complain?
3. Re:$ony by Swordopolis · 2007-09-19 09:02 · Score: 1
  
  Except that cars DO change and add features every year. Also, it's annoying that they're adding this feature after they said they weren't going to use it. And it leaves anyone who really does want it out in the cold for being an early adopter. Suppose Ford made a brand new car and didn't include extra airbags, even though a large chunk of the user base wanted them and they were pretty much standard in most models of cars for years beforehand, because Ford said the car was safe enough to ride in already. What would you say if for next year's model, they suddenly added the airbags and went around touting those airbags as a key feature of the car?
  
  --
  Alchemist: Be Thou For the People
4. Re:$ony by Anonymous Coward · 2007-09-19 13:24 · Score: 0
  
  Holy terrible analogy fanboy!
5. Re:$ony by buffer-overflowed · 2007-09-19 14:06 · Score: 1
  
  It didn't hurt them the first two times they did this, with the original playstation, in the US at least.
  
  Remember, the original playstation controller had no analog sticks. The second controller they introduced had analog sticks, but no rumble. The third controller they released was the dual shock.
  
  --
  The key to the enjoyment of pop music is to replace any instance of "love" with "C.H.U.D."
6. Re:$ony by donaldm · 2007-09-20 01:32 · Score: 1
  
  No you don't need to rush out an buy the sixaxis shock controller unless you feel that you "positively have" to have rumble in the game your playing (assuming it supports rumble). Even if you go back to the PS1 and PS2 games that support rumble you normally had the option to turn the rumble feature off. With the PS3 games that support sixaxis functionality you wont have any option to turn this feature off, so sixaxis on the PS3 is essential while rumble will become optional which it always has been.
  
  Since the PS3 can work with 1 to 7 controllers you most likely only need one new sixaxis shock controller (well maybe two) but only if you feel you absolutely need it, still it's your money and Sony is not the only company "nickel and diming" you with peripherals. Actually the winner would be Nintendo since I never seen so many options for the Wii.
  
  --
  There ain't no such thing as proprietary standards only proprietary formats. Standards are by definition open.
Battery life? by neumayr · 2007-09-19 06:09 · Score: 3, Interesting

I'd imagine that rumble feature to be quite power hungry, so what will that do to sixaxis' battery life? Get it down to wiimote level or even worse?

--
Truth arises more readily from error than from confusion. -Francis Bacon
1. Re:Battery life? by Duffy13 · 2007-09-19 06:35 · Score: 1
  
  While still annoying, it looks like that 10ft USB cable now has a purpose.
  
  --
  "Now you know, and knowing is half the battle!"
2. Re:Battery life? by Xtravar · 2007-09-19 06:40 · Score: 1
  
  What? I have wireless rumbling controllers for last gen's consoles. Logitech has made them for some time, and the battery life is decent.
  
  --
  Buckle your ROFL belt, we're in for some LOLs.
3. Re:Battery life? by G+Fab · 2007-09-19 09:44 · Score: 1
  
  keep in mind that the PS3 controller can last for several days without recharging... hell I've gone weeks in some cases.
  
  Now that we're accustomed to that, most folks are going to be surprised and annoyed at the understandably (to me) shorter battery life that might still be decent, but not days.
4. Re:Battery life? by MikeBabcock · 2007-09-19 10:01 · Score: 1
  
  My only battery life annoyance with the PS3 controller is that it doesn't charge if the system is shut off. And no, its not off, its on "standby" of course, and could easily send power to the USB ports for charging purposes. It doesn't matter much as I usually leave it on F@H overnight with the controller plugged in.
  
  And technology considered, its quite possible they've improved battery lifetime over the year as well, either with a better battery pack or lower power internal electronics, so we may not notice much difference in the end.
  
  --
  - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
5. Re:Battery life? by G+Fab · 2007-09-19 14:34 · Score: 1
  
  motors use a ton of electricity, so I imagine either the controller uses some extremely expensive batteries or the battery life will be greatly lower.
  
  And yeah, the fact that the PS3 doesn't charge controlelrs when off is crap crap crap. I just use the USB off my computer (which is never off), but still, what a stupid thing to lack.
6. Re:Battery life? by samdu · 2007-09-19 19:06 · Score: 1
  
  Logitech Cordless Action Controller for PS2:
  
  "Play longer--at least 50 hours of gameplay with vibration on."
  
  50 hours seems a decent amount of time to me. I can't imagine that the DS3 would be significantly worse than that.
Missing the Game of the Year... by trdrstv · 2007-09-19 06:11 · Score: 2, Interesting

Halo 3, Mass Effect, Too Human, Fable 2, the next Burnout game, the Warhammer RTS, the next Splinter Cell, the Orange Box, Condemned: Criminal Origins, Fallout 3...
Seriously. There is WAY more coming out for the system than Halo 3...why do people keep focusing on just that?

What? No love for 2007's GOTY? Not to outright disrespect the other games, but I'll probably put more time into that than Halo3, Smash Bros and Warhawk combined.
1. Re:Missing the Game of the Year... by Pojut · 2007-09-19 06:13 · Score: 1
  
  Nope, no love for Rock Band...not a big fan of those style games (most likely because I suck at them, lol)
  
  I am kicking myself for not including Ninja Gaiden 2 though...not sure what the hell I was thinking with that one...
  
  --
  Living With a Nerd
Re:Whee! by bateleur · 2007-09-19 06:24 · Score: 3, Funny

what do i want to play today on my 360....decisions, decisions...
An FPS? ;-)
I just bought Colin McRae's Helicopter Rally by Anonymous Coward · 2007-09-19 06:33 · Score: 0, Troll

It keeps crashing. Any advice?
1. Re:I just bought Colin McRae's Helicopter Rally by randuev · 2007-09-19 09:11 · Score: 1
  
  you son of a bitch, humphrey. (c) cannibal the musical
Re:Whee! by ivan256 · 2007-09-19 06:36 · Score: 1

Madden.

And somebody pass him the funnel. ;-)
Re:Whee! by trdrstv · 2007-09-19 06:55 · Score: 1

preface: i own all 3 current gen consoles... i love how the ps3 and wii guys take shots at each other and the xbox crowd. all of their arguments are hardware based because they have no games to argue about. now...what do i want to play today on my 360....decisions, decisions...

Preface. I too own all 3 systems, and yes the 360 has more good games but currently that's like "Beating two quadruple amputies at swingball."
I got yer advice right here by Tony · 2007-09-19 06:56 · Score: 1

It keeps crashing. Any advice?

Learn to fly?

--
Microsoft is to software what Budweiser is to beer.
1. Re:I got yer advice right here by revengebomber · 2007-09-19 09:44 · Score: 1
  
  WHOOSH
  
  (And that's not a helicopter.)
  
  --
  09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
  45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
Re:Whee! by AuMatar · 2007-09-19 07:11 · Score: 0, Troll

But not a single one I'd pay 10 bucks to play, let alone 50.

--
I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
Re:Whee! by provigilman · 2007-09-19 08:09 · Score: 1, Redundant

Blue Dragon is an FPS??? Oh wait...I forgot, it's a hotly anticipated and highly rated RPG. Better luck next time. ;)

--
"Life's short and hard, like a body building elf." -- The Bloodhound Gang
Re:for those that complain about additional cost by entmike · 2007-09-19 08:24 · Score: 1

$860 to make my XBOX playable.

With the exception of you citing the $150 repair fee, all that other stuff is completely optional to make your XBOX "playable". You might as well have included the gas it took you to drive to Best Buy and your electricity bill to make the number even more meaningless.
People don't buy systems for "Rental" games... by trdrstv · 2007-09-19 08:46 · Score: 2, Insightful

Us people in the know have been very harsh on Sony about Heavenly Sword's length, but you know what, all the common video game consumer friends I have with a PS3 have called me up to ask if I absolutely loved the game as much as them... and when I tried to explain that it was great but short, most of them told me in a matter of fact way that the game was like an epic movie that you got to play, and that being short made sense to them because it kicked ass in the short time it played and it didn't have tons of filler, which they didn't want.
Us 'elite' gamers have been giving it a bad rap, and I know that this is simply anecdotal, but it appears to me that the ho-hum consumer actually appreciates the shortness vs. the content.

The issue is that the game isn't worth the $60, let alone the system cost on top of it. People were banking on this game being a system seller, and it flatly isn't one. People buy systems for games that are truly epic in scale (like an Oblivion, a Zelda, or a Final Fantasy) or for something they simply can't find anywhere else (like WiiSports, or Steel Battalion). They do not buy a system for a game that they can rent, beat in a weekend and feel satisfied due to no real replay value.
This game isn't a system seller. It's something that is fun, and enjoyable and I would recommend it as a RENT to PS3 players who enjoyed God of War, but were turned off by its length, difficulty or depth.
Re:for those that complain about additional cost by Anonymous Coward · 2007-09-19 08:49 · Score: 0

You assume the poster wants to play games solo. Whether we like it or not, more and more big titles are for online multiple user game play.
Re:for those that complain about additional cost by provigilman · 2007-09-19 08:55 · Score: 1

Yeah cuz, you know, it toally makes sense for you to factor in the cost of a wireless headset when the 360 already comes packaged with a wired one. It also totally makes sense to completely discount the wireless headset from your phone as a "cost". I have no bluetooth headset for my phone, so I guess that means that PS3 will magically cost more for me then according to your logic.
Just as a counterpoint though, let me run down what it took to get my 360 "playable".
$400.

--
"Life's short and hard, like a body building elf." -- The Bloodhound Gang
Re:Whee! by Anonymous Coward · 2007-09-19 09:25 · Score: 0

Which sucks balls. If I wanted to play a JPRG (which I don't), I would play an actual JRPG and not some American wannabe. Luckily the 360 has enough good stuff, especially now, to accommodate even your questionable tastes.
I wish I still had mod points.. by rikkitikki · 2007-09-19 10:02 · Score: 1

I wish I still had mod points so I could mark your comment as flamebait. You obviously haven't played the game. It took me 12 hours to beat the game (yes, I timed it). And while that's still short (along the same lines as Gear of Wars short), it's no where near the claim of "5 hours with 2 hours of cutscenes". You simply made that up.

It's a really good game. Beautiful graphics, decent story, surprisingly good acting for a video game, and good gameplay. The gameplay is sort of a Goddess of War, but the different fighting stances and combos keeps it interesting and keeps it from getting repetitive. It's also the first PS3 game that I feel that uses the sixaxis well. Oh, and towards the later chapters, I felt the combat was rather intense and would have to take a long break from it after a half-hour to an hour of play.

Next time, try playing the game before you start bashing it.
Re:Whee! by provigilman · 2007-09-19 10:42 · Score: 1

You sir, are a moron.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Dragon/
Blue Dragon's designers include Hironobu Sakaguchi, Akira Toriyama, and Nobuo Uematsu, respectively producer and scenario writer, character designer, and composer. The game's original story was created by Hironobu Sakaguchi, the game director of the first five Final Fantasy video games. The game features art from Akira Toriyama, the creator of Dragon Ball and visual, character and monster designer and illustrator of Dragon Quest. Blue Dragon's soundtrack is produced and composed by Nobuo Uematsu, a composer responsible for much of the music in the popular Final Fantasy game series. The music was performed live at the PLAY! A Video Game Symphony concerts in 2006. One of the boss themes, Eternity, was written by Sakaguchi, composed by Uematsu, and includes vocals by English singer Ian Gillan.

Except for the English singer, those names don't sound very "American" do they? Oh, and they happen to include people that worked on things like the Final Fantasy series, Chrono Trigger, Dragon Quest and Vagrant Story. Maybe you should actually take the time to read about things before you wind up choking on that foot in your mouth.

--
"Life's short and hard, like a body building elf." -- The Bloodhound Gang
So... by axia777 · 2007-09-19 11:10 · Score: 1

It's kool if Nintendo does it? Because they love hardware revisions, but nobody seems to bitch when they do it. Unless you thinks it sucks when any company does it of course. Because all three companies;Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft; have been guilty of this kind of crap.
Wii Classic controller makes sense for the 2D VC by trdrstv · 2007-09-19 11:52 · Score: 1

Oh hey, I just remembered there's a counterexample to the rule -- the Wii Classic controller also has the dpad up and the left analog down. Oddly enough, it too has historical baggage in the sense that it is designed to play games which range from the NES to the GC. Like the Dual Shock, it's designed with the d-pad as primary for that reason, though in my brief experience with it I think it's even less comfortable than Dual Shock. Good thing I have my GC controller -- though I'll probably use the wiimote for NES titles, since using the DPad on the GC controller is just as uncomfortable as using the analog stick on the Dual Shock.

That is an excellent point, however I don't mind the classic controller for the Wii for the reason that's it's primary use is for 2D gaming. All systems in the Virtual console that use it (with the exception of the N64) were made to be 2D systems, and though they tacked on the analogs so you could play the N64 games that way if you liked, the GameCube controller is the superior choice for 3D gaming.
Rumble? Meh. by morari · 2007-09-19 12:06 · Score: 1

Rumble is annoying, and begins to make my hands go numb after so long. I turn it off unless it is integral to the gameplay itself and acts in short, occasional bursts. I wouldn't mind it being used as a sort of sixth sense in a game, warning you of approaching danger now and then. Having it in a racing game though, for example, is downright painful due to the near constant vibration.

--
"He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." --Paul Atreides, Dune
1. Re:Rumble? Meh. by Firefly1 · 2007-09-21 05:39 · Score: 1
  
  Rumble is annoying, and begins to make my hands go numb after so long...
  Both of Koei's Warship Gunner games give the PS2 controller's rumble feature a workout... especially if your ship's armament is heavy on 'special machineguns' (dubbed 'Vulcans in WG2); these can get up to 406mm in caliber, and shred most everything you'll run across in WG; they were toned down a bit in WG2. Fortunately, such lead-hose fans can disable vibration from the options menu.
  
  --
  - White Knight of the Order of Mihoshi Enthusiasts
By that logic... by MMaestro · 2007-09-19 15:10 · Score: 2, Insightful

Sony should have cut the game down to $30~$40 from the get-go to promote sales. Instead, Sony marketed the game as a full-fledged game and gamers were disappointed when it turned into a movie with button mashing filler.
Its not about shortness/length vs. content (at least in this case), but a matter of interactivity vs. non-interactivity. Games like Halo or Bioshock (not counting the intros or endings, both games have extremely little cutscenes or FMVs) have very high action vs. inaction ratios in this case while games like Metal Gear Solid 2 and Heavenly Sword have very low action vs. inaction ratios (yes, both games have their moments but assuming you go straight forward, both games bogs themselves down with cutscenes and FMVs).
1. Re:By that logic... by JordanL · 2007-09-19 15:13 · Score: 1
  
  gamers were disappointed when it turned into a movie with button mashing filler.
  That's what I was saying... gamers weren't disappointed from what I've seen. It's the elitist forum going snobs and reviewers that were.
  
  --
  FanFictionRecs.net
No next-gen rumble?? by Anonymous Coward · 2007-09-20 02:17 · Score: 0

As much as I was looking forward to a rumbling PS3 controller, I am surprised they did not choose to include any "Next-Gen" rumble for their "Next-Gen" system. Where is the tactile feedback? This feels like a rush job to me.
User replaceable battery by Anonymous Coward · 2007-09-20 04:28 · Score: 0

Are you kidding me?

I can't count the number of times that the 360's controller not having good batteries has stopped me from playing it. Even if I've left the controller unplugged and the battery has run down, at worst I can plug in the usb cable and charge it while playing. Hell, the usb cable doesn't even have to be plugged into the PS3. I have a powered USB hub at my couch to charge the controller.

If they allowed user replaceable batteries, I can bet they won't have a nicely integrated charging system.

I agree on 2 and 3 though.

I think the sixaxis is useless due to the latency; move the controller, and an instant later the system responds. That instant is too much right now, and makes it useless to me.
Re:for those that complain about additional cost by entmike · 2007-09-20 04:57 · Score: 1

I'll buy that. But he cites $100 for XBL. He didn't have to pay for 2 years of it to make his XBOX "playable". I think it's $7.50/mo or something. The wireless headset is not a requirement and neither was the wireless adapter. The $399 package he bought provided the wired headset and network cable. (Surprised he didn't lump in his ISP cost in his figure). Needing wireless is a preference, not a requirement for playability.
Ninja Gaiden by Devir · 2007-09-20 05:32 · Score: 1

Rumble is mandatory for that game. The PS3 version looks preetty, but without rumble...
RIP PS3 by OrangeTide · 2007-09-20 08:30 · Score: 1

You died when Microsoft and Nintendo released cheaper systems with more practical features than your costs-as-much-as-a-home-computer game console. I don't think people at Sony got the memo that the potential to have amazing graphics and realistic simulation of AI and physics doesn't mean squat if nobody actually delivers on that at release.

Besides it seems now that fancy 3D graphics are secondary, and that online service and "community-based" gaming is what is the cutting edge. You figure out how to combine the ideas of myspace and facebook with an immersive interactive game and that's what is going to sell games faster than special effects. Worship of the all mighty GPU is over, RIP.

--
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
Ugh by Anonymous Coward · 2007-09-24 03:49 · Score: 0

Us people in the know have been very harsh

Us 'elite' gamers have been giving it a bad rap

You may work as a "video game reporter", but I hope you don't have aspirations to be an editor. The correct usage is "We people ..." and "We 'elite' gamers ...". Or do you speak a dialect where "Us have been very harsh" is considered normal?