Unfortunately for these people, that option wouldn't have worked either. They were e-mailing client information, not just bitching about the boss's unsanitary habits.
This is just a shot in the dark, but wouldn't proxy servers at most financial institutions stop you from accessing web-based e-mail?
There are two big incentives for just about any employer to do this kind of thing:
1. Protecting confidential information -- even more important at a bank. 2. Protecting the network from malicious worms.
It's much easier to track (and filter) what comes and goes if it all travels through a mail server.
Your subject line hit the nail right on the head. However, your list wasn't just OSs Microsoft's anti-spyware product support, it's a list of OSs that Microsoft supports - period.
Windows '95, '98 and ME are no longer supported by Microsoft, with the exception of the odd security patch. The more backward compatible MS products remain, the less likely you are to upgrade.
If your relatives just need a box to check e-mail, you should seriously consider one of the desktop-friendly distros of Linux.
For example, I had some out-of-town relatives over (all 50+) who occupied my office for the better part of an hour checking e-mail. They were browsing using Mozilla Firefox running Ubuntu 4.10 and Mepis 2004.6. I don't even think they noticed that the computer wasn't running Windows.
(dragging the tangent back on topic).. not having to worry as much about spyware is just a bonus.
You lost all credibility as soon as you said "Netizen."
Do you really think that Joe User is going to apply for a broadband license? More importantly, do you think that broadband ISP's would be willing coordinate anything of this magnitude?
Give me a break.
I've learned that people don't care what runs in the background -- as long as it works. My wife is happy when she can browse the web, check e-mail and use a functioning office suite with an intuitive interface. Everything else should be happening in the background.
Yes, there needs to be more awareness around phishing and trojans, however, the grunt work will ultimately be in the hands of the ISPs and software developers.
Easier said than done on some platforms. Nvu as a stand-alone application is fairly new, and not supported on on a lot of Linux distros. For example, I use Ubuntu, and there's a whole song-and-dance to go through just to install it.
I'm a slightly above-average joe desktop user, but if I can't find what I want using Synaptic, then I don't bother.
I'm sitting on pins and needles for Nvu to be available in Ubuntu's Universe repository. I don't want to bother having the Mozilla suite, and Firefox, and Thunderbird, and Nvu. It's just waaay to redundant.
The trick is to do this with empathy. "I told you so," won't get you anywhere.
Where I work, there are "supported applications" and "unsupported applications." If you've installed an unsupported app, then you're pretty much up the creek if the problem can't be solved in five minutes or less. You lose your computer for a day.
Fortunately, larger companies tend to have a standard image for each model that install over the network, so it's your time that's lost, not the IT guy's. He just presses a button and lets it run.
Do most universities run like this -- with bulk purchases of hardware for staff, or is equipment purchased as needed?
I deal with this kind of stuff on a different level. I manage an intranet and need to deal with people wanting things 'their way,' only to have them complain when their way is the wrong way.
I get them to e-mail me acknowleding that this is against my recommendations or against policy X. When it blows up the first time, I fix it and hopefully gain his or her trust.
If he or she is still pig-headed one major experience or a couple minor ones, put solving their problem at the bottom of your list of priorities. Remember, you hold the power.
Just remember to have them acknowledge in writing or via e-mail that whatever they're demanding is against your recommendation or policy if you can't convince them to back off.
Twanfox does have a strong point. IBM and Novell are hailed for running their own distributions of Linux in-house as well.
Yes, they'll need to know the enemy -- so run an extra box under your desk for testing purposes. But your day-to-day work better be hacked out using your own tools.
Heck, I do the same at home. If I'm trying to sell the idea of open source software and Linux to friends and relatives I need to walk the talk.
I sure as heck miss FrontPage 2000 -- Nvu isn't quite as polished for bulk dumps of text and tables into HTML pages. I just keep smiling.
I must admit, these suckers are the most stable - in terms of software compatibility and durability. I've had a 600x and a T40 - and both are wonderful.
I did hear about some potential hard drive problems with the T22 or T23 models, however, they did a mass recall. At work, IBM brought a crew in that backed every unit up and restored the image on a new hard drive.
It's not only the hardware I'm going to miss, it's the servicing.
I only wish my employer would allow me to buy it back when the lease ends.
My questions is "how long does a computer sit powered on before someone actually starts Windows Update (or IE)?"
I think digrieze missed my main point of the update not happening as part of the installation process - leaving it up to the user.
Yankel
I think that says something about Microsoft's installation process.
My last Linux install included an automatic upgrade of the latest packages that had been upgraded for security reasons - even before X was started for the first time.
How are the first round of patches applied when you install XP? My guess is after you finish the installation, you must:
1. Start Windows Updater
Which, I imagine is where we lose pretty much everybody because:
a) users just want to get going already - not install secuirty patches
b) as an article about counterfeit copies of XP in Asia put it, "Windows Update wouldn't work, so they gave up."
Ubuntu is a pretty good idea if you want something that's nice to look at and doesn't try to be everything for everybody. My favorite feature is no desktop icons by default - the drives and documents folder are accessible through the gnome "computer" menu. Looks a little "Mac"ish.
You can also get the pressed CDs mailed to you for free at www.ubuntulinux.org. Each order gets a LiveCD and an Install CD. I'm hoping mine will arrive in time for the holidays.
I think the key is to offer support for installation during a visit. Anybody can pop in the LiveCD, but no matter what distro you use, there's a little bit of tweaking involved to actually install it.
Even on Ubuntu, I had to: - switch from totem gstreamer to totem xine - get rid of Evolution in favour of Thunderbird - install tuxpaint (for the kid) and bluefish (for me) - set it up to login automatically
Ubuntu uses Gnome, however, if you prefer KDE, I've also heard good things about SimplyMEPIS. Never tried it myself.
On that note - who's filling up the seasonal gift box with free copies of Ubuntu Linux? The i386 version is mailed with both the live and install CDs.
I think this'll be my new standard for family desktop support: - set it up to log in automatically - don't give them the password for sudo - delete the terminal option in the gnome menu
Whenever I vist, I can update everything through Synaptic Package Manager.
Disclaimer: I prefer KDE and Konqurer over Gnome and Nautilis
I installed Ubuntu this weekend and I'm really impressed with the interface - very little tweaking was required (mostly Nautilis) to get things working 'my way.'
I read on Ubuntu.com that you were planning on implementing KDE as a second desktop option, and my initial reaction was "why?"
I think the strength of Ubuntu is its focus. A limited selection of applicationa on an easy to navigate Gnome desktop. Most distros try to be everything for everybody, and stretch their resources too thin to make a meaningful contribution, or arrive at a unique product.
Couldn't "Ubuntu with KDE" be someone else's project? Wouldn't it be better for Ubuntu (and Debian overall) to focus your resources on doing what you do best, Debian integration with Gnome, rather than pleasing everybody?
Unfortunately Canadians don't have that option. They get to choose from Royal, CIBC, Scotiabank, and Bank of Montreal. There are a couple others I can't remember right now. They all have the same rules and rates so you're fucked wherever you go. There are a few little credit unions around, but it's not like the privatized system in the states, and are limited in what services they can offer.
Yay socialism.
Not quite. Royal Bank is a publicly traded company. RY-T (Toronto Stock Exchange).
Slashdot Mirror
Unfortunately for these people, that option wouldn't have worked either. They were e-mailing client information, not just bitching about the boss's unsanitary habits.
This is just a shot in the dark, but wouldn't proxy servers at most financial institutions stop you from accessing web-based e-mail?
There are two big incentives for just about any employer to do this kind of thing:
1. Protecting confidential information -- even more important at a bank.
2. Protecting the network from malicious worms.
It's much easier to track (and filter) what comes and goes if it all travels through a mail server.
Your subject line hit the nail right on the head. However, your list wasn't just OSs Microsoft's anti-spyware product support, it's a list of OSs that Microsoft supports - period.
Windows '95, '98 and ME are no longer supported by Microsoft, with the exception of the odd security patch. The more backward compatible MS products remain, the less likely you are to upgrade.
If your relatives just need a box to check e-mail, you should seriously consider one of the desktop-friendly distros of Linux.
For example, I had some out-of-town relatives over (all 50+) who occupied my office for the better part of an hour checking e-mail. They were browsing using Mozilla Firefox running Ubuntu 4.10 and Mepis 2004.6. I don't even think they noticed that the computer wasn't running Windows.
(dragging the tangent back on topic).. not having to worry as much about spyware is just a bonus.
Hey, you're the one that thinks we can teach Joe User everything there is to know about security.
I know to love my kid for doing the best he can do and try to protect him from trouble.
You lost all credibility as soon as you said "Netizen."
Do you really think that Joe User is going to apply for a broadband license? More importantly, do you think that broadband ISP's would be willing coordinate anything of this magnitude?
Give me a break.
I've learned that people don't care what runs in the background -- as long as it works. My wife is happy when she can browse the web, check e-mail and use a functioning office suite with an intuitive interface. Everything else should be happening in the background.
Yes, there needs to be more awareness around phishing and trojans, however, the grunt work will ultimately be in the hands of the ISPs and software developers.
Here's the true test of the Slashdotter: does he or she have a brain -- or not? If Gator gets Slashdotted from that post, we're all doomed.
Easier said than done on some platforms. Nvu as a stand-alone application is fairly new, and not supported on on a lot of Linux distros. For example, I use Ubuntu, and there's a whole song-and-dance to go through just to install it.
h owto/helpcenterhowto.2004-10-20.3307060179/view?se archterm=nvu
http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/
I'm a slightly above-average joe desktop user, but if I can't find what I want using Synaptic, then I don't bother.
I'm sitting on pins and needles for Nvu to be available in Ubuntu's Universe repository. I don't want to bother having the Mozilla suite, and Firefox, and Thunderbird, and Nvu. It's just waaay to redundant.
The trick is to do this with empathy. "I told you so," won't get you anywhere.
Where I work, there are "supported applications" and "unsupported applications." If you've installed an unsupported app, then you're pretty much up the creek if the problem can't be solved in five minutes or less. You lose your computer for a day.
Fortunately, larger companies tend to have a standard image for each model that install over the network, so it's your time that's lost, not the IT guy's. He just presses a button and lets it run.
Do most universities run like this -- with bulk purchases of hardware for staff, or is equipment purchased as needed?
You either have a network policy or you don't.
I deal with this kind of stuff on a different level. I manage an intranet and need to deal with people wanting things 'their way,' only to have them complain when their way is the wrong way.
I get them to e-mail me acknowleding that this is against my recommendations or against policy X. When it blows up the first time, I fix it and hopefully gain his or her trust.
If he or she is still pig-headed one major experience or a couple minor ones, put solving their problem at the bottom of your list of priorities. Remember, you hold the power.
Just remember to have them acknowledge in writing or via e-mail that whatever they're demanding is against your recommendation or policy if you can't convince them to back off.
And if you run out of ideas, just follow Simon's lead http://bofh.ntk.net/Bastard.html.
Twanfox does have a strong point. IBM and Novell are hailed for running their own distributions of Linux in-house as well.
Yes, they'll need to know the enemy -- so run an extra box under your desk for testing purposes. But your day-to-day work better be hacked out using your own tools.
Heck, I do the same at home. If I'm trying to sell the idea of open source software and Linux to friends and relatives I need to walk the talk.
I sure as heck miss FrontPage 2000 -- Nvu isn't quite as polished for bulk dumps of text and tables into HTML pages. I just keep smiling.
I must admit, these suckers are the most stable - in terms of software compatibility and durability. I've had a 600x and a T40 - and both are wonderful.
I did hear about some potential hard drive problems with the T22 or T23 models, however, they did a mass recall. At work, IBM brought a crew in that backed every unit up and restored the image on a new hard drive.
It's not only the hardware I'm going to miss, it's the servicing.
I only wish my employer would allow me to buy it back when the lease ends.
Yankel
My questions is "how long does a computer sit powered on before someone actually starts Windows Update (or IE)?" I think digrieze missed my main point of the update not happening as part of the installation process - leaving it up to the user. Yankel
I think that says something about Microsoft's installation process.
My last Linux install included an automatic upgrade of the latest packages that had been upgraded for security reasons - even before X was started for the first time.
How are the first round of patches applied when you install XP? My guess is after you finish the installation, you must:
1. Start Windows Updater
Which, I imagine is where we lose pretty much everybody because:
a) users just want to get going already - not install secuirty patches
b) as an article about counterfeit copies of XP in Asia put it, "Windows Update wouldn't work, so they gave up."
Yankel
Ubuntu is a pretty good idea if you want something that's nice to look at and doesn't try to be everything for everybody. My favorite feature is no desktop icons by default - the drives and documents folder are accessible through the gnome "computer" menu. Looks a little "Mac"ish.
You can also get the pressed CDs mailed to you for free at www.ubuntulinux.org. Each order gets a LiveCD and an Install CD. I'm hoping mine will arrive in time for the holidays.
I think the key is to offer support for installation during a visit. Anybody can pop in the LiveCD, but no matter what distro you use, there's a little bit of tweaking involved to actually install it.
Even on Ubuntu, I had to:
- switch from totem gstreamer to totem xine
- get rid of Evolution in favour of Thunderbird
- install tuxpaint (for the kid) and bluefish (for me)
- set it up to login automatically
Ubuntu uses Gnome, however, if you prefer KDE, I've also heard good things about SimplyMEPIS. Never tried it myself.
Put them out to pasture, of course!
On that note - who's filling up the seasonal gift box with free copies of Ubuntu Linux? The i386 version is mailed with both the live and install CDs.
I think this'll be my new standard for family desktop support:
- set it up to log in automatically
- don't give them the password for sudo
- delete the terminal option in the gnome menu
Whenever I vist, I can update everything through Synaptic Package Manager.
Instant dad-proofing.
Disclaimer: I prefer KDE and Konqurer over Gnome and Nautilis
I installed Ubuntu this weekend and I'm really impressed with the interface - very little tweaking was required (mostly Nautilis) to get things working 'my way.'
I read on Ubuntu.com that you were planning on implementing KDE as a second desktop option, and my initial reaction was "why?"
I think the strength of Ubuntu is its focus. A limited selection of applicationa on an easy to navigate Gnome desktop. Most distros try to be everything for everybody, and stretch their resources too thin to make a meaningful contribution, or arrive at a unique product.
Couldn't "Ubuntu with KDE" be someone else's project? Wouldn't it be better for Ubuntu (and Debian overall) to focus your resources on doing what you do best, Debian integration with Gnome, rather than pleasing everybody?