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Mozilla 1.7.5 Released
shokk writes "Mozilla 1.7.5 is out for all platforms. See the changelog for more details. Quite a few bug fixes are in this. A number of the bugs are Firefox/Mozilla specific, so you can expect that these will be avilable in the upcoming Firefox 1.1 Deer Park (that's good browser!) release. Is the Mozilla suite no longer at the forefront of browser technology, long surpassed by Firefox and Thunderbird? Will we ever see a Mozilla suite composed of Firefox and Thunderbird to keep it all simple? What are your reasons for running the old standby suite over the Firefox/Thunderbird combo?"
Nearly all of the 1.7.5 Mozilla Suite fixes are in Firefox 1.0. Firefox 1.0's code is Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.5) Gecko/20041107 Firefox/1.0. This is a small upgrade for Mozilla 1.7 to reach Firefox 1.0 parity. Firefox v1.1 will be based on Mozilla 1.8 (currently at 1.8 alpha 5), and Mozilla 1.8 should be released first. I wouldn't say either one is ahead in terms of technology, since they share so much.
Whether we'll one day have a suite of applications replace the actual suite seems to vary month to month and depends on who you ask. Personally, I would've liked that as a goal for Mozilla's 2.0 release.
PS: Mozilla 1.8/Firefox 1.1 should have the new user stylesheet code to support a color override for it.slashdot.org!
Quite simply, it's a better browser. The killer feature for me is searching. I hate the wasted real estate in Firefox from having a separate location and search box, and ease of use is dramatically better in Mozilla than in Firefox. In Mozilla, I just hit Ctrl-L, type my search commands, hit up arrow and enter. I haven't found any way of achieving the same thing in Firefox, and I hate the small size of the box I'm given to enter my search terms.
For email, I don't use either. Until something else comes close to the power of mh, I see no reason to change. But I also found out a major failing in Thunderbird yesterday. My other third uses it, and it turns out it can only get mail from a POP3 or IMAP server. It can't read from a local mbox file. How braindead is that?
"The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." -- Delos B. McKown
I've been wondering the same for a long while now. I stopped using Mozilla about 3 months ago when Firefox for Linux bypassed Mozilla for speed.
Disconnect and self-destruct, one bullet at a time.
Seriously. When you have multiple avatars on a forum RPG, logging out and in over and over again is error prone. So I have Mozilla be "STrRedWolf", KHTML be "Sandra Felis" and Firefox be "Dr. Mikail Markov" and post as usual.
--
# Canmephians for a better Linux Kernel
$Stalag99{"URL"}="http://stalag99.net";
Where Hebrew and Arabic (and presumably other RTL language) sites are occasionally rendered hugely wider than the window size?
Might seem silly, but when upgrades come out for the Moz suite, IT teams need only upgrade/test one piece of software. Might seem insignificant, but at my school EVERY computer had Moz installed, and that would mean a lot of work.
Also, Mozilla suite has a higher version number which, for some reason, keeps ignorant IT managers more at ease.
It's got IRC Chat. Therefore I don't need to download yet another program for IRC. It's the same reason why I use Trillian.
I use Firefox exclusively for web browsing, but if I need to use an HTML editor for simple stuff every once in a while, I still have the Mozilla suite installed for Composer.
Thats about it though. I haven't used the full suite for web browsing (I use Evolution for e-mail) for almost two years now.
It was my understanding that Firefox and Thunderbird were engineered to completely replace Mozilla.
Does anyone know when this is supposed to happen, i.e. when will the code branches merge into a single whole?
The unofficial
I use epiphany and mozilla mail,
epiphany need mozilla, so I have to install mozilla anyway,
I use mozilla mail regularly, if i switch to thunderbird, i still have to install mozilla to satisfy epiphany dependency.
can epiphany build base on thunderbird?
-- Hasbullah bin Pit (sebol)
What are your reasons for running the old standby suite over the Firefox/Thunderbird combo?
Because I can patch it from Redhat Network
Virtually serving coffee
Will the idiotic, rhetorical, redundant questions ever stop?
Once Mozilla improves/changes their icons and makes it something cooler I would gladly switch to Mozilla, since i would like to have my Firefox and thunderbird running in the system tray.
Simple. Because it works. There isn't enough reason for me to switch.
Also, because Firefox seems to have a problem running on my computer, and has every time I've tried it (0.7, 1.0, etc.) - If I try to save anything (^S), it hangs and has to be "kill -9'd"
I'm beyond the age where I care enough to build it from source and debug it myself, and since they're no entry in Bugzilla that I could find for it, it's probably something about my local linux installation, and again, I'm beyond the age where "reinstall the OS" is considered appropriate.
Will we ever see a Mozilla suite composed of Firefox and Thunderbird to keep it all simple?
What are the reasons for keeping two different project sets going at the same time? More and more it seems like the Mozilla Suite is becoming the "Legacy Trunk", and Firebox & Thunderbird are the next-generation R&D releases.
It seems if we could dedicate more developers to a single development tree, it would be more efficient? Just one primary development trunk, no need to sync in changes from Firefox/Thunderbird -> Mozilla and from Mozilla -> Firefox/Thunderbird.
94% of Repubs and 21% of Dems voted to renew the Patriot Act
I much prefer the suite to FF/TB.
I still can't stand FF as a browser - it simply isn't as good as Mozilla for my uses. If I'm going to use both the browser and mail components then why the hell would I want to sacrifice performance and features (such as opening email links in a new Mozilla tab by middle-clicking) by running two seperate programs?
Bring the "Open a new tab" button to the left of the tab bar and I'll switch. I don't want it in the navigation bar. Until that's fixed I can't use Firefox.
Now that Firefox has become popular I have to use Mozilla to prop up my feeble ego by running against the current and sneering at those along the way.
The only piece of the suite you can not get by it self is composer, which I use regularly for editing my personal web site. I know its not the greatest HTML editor out there, but it does what I need it to do and I am familiar with how it works.
Given all the attention it's getting, I expect Firefox will eventually get as solid as the Mozilla suite is now. But I don't feel it's quite there yet.
Ita erat quando hic adveni.
Essentially there is a group of people out there, educators for example, that were still using netscape (4.x ) and the modern browsers did not appeal to them, now there is a viable option, since the release of Mozilla 1.2 many of them have been enjoying the same solid browser/email experience they always had. Some people like the marriage of the browser/email, it means they don't have to think/do alot.
Different Strokes for Different Folks.
A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing. Emo Philips
Whatever happened to 1.7.4?
quidquid latine dictum sit altum videtur.
I still use regular Mozilla for two reasons. :-P
1. Mozilla composer. - I'm aware that someone made a standalone version, but I like having the ability to edit pages in the same program I use to browser them.
2. Chatzilla. - Who needs a standalone IRC client when I rarely use IRC?
That, and I'm used to Mozilla, and have it set up how I like it.
What are your reasons for running the old standby suite over the Firefox/Thunderbird combo?
I use Firefox and Thunderbird, but I also use the full suite because of Composer. As you can tell from the "horribly reminiscent of NCSA circa 1994" appearance of my website.
And last I checked nVu wasn't available for Linux/PPC.
--saint
The underlying rendering code might be the same, but the interface (and the features) are completely different.
Firefox is lightweight and quick and I use it on slow/low memory machines, but I prefer mozilla simply because it still looks and behaves like netscape. Firefox is for those people that use IE and switch over.
It might sound silly but there are subtle interface differences and keyboard controls, etc that are missing in Firefox. I went from using netscape to mozilla (when it was stable enough) and I've always disliked IE.
I'm sure Firefox will gain netscape behaviour features at some point, but I guess at that point certain users will start complaining about bloat.
Until there is a compelling feature to move I'm not going to, and I wish people wouldn't make it into some open source guilt trip not to use Firefox! Damnit! I only recently started using mozilla mail over PINE! (and that was for the junk filtering).
crash my mail & web at the same time.
I have noticed the mozilla still does a better job of password logging on then mozilla.
Firefox alone will not remember gmail passwords (yes I have it set correctly) but Mozilla will.
Anyway body else see this problem?
Sigs are dangerous coy things
1. I, along with a bunch of other people, funded a developer to add roaming profile support. It's in the 1.8alpha builds but AFAIK hasn't made it into Firefox yet. Roaming profiles was a huge loss for me when I stopped using Netscape 4. I'm glad to have it back and I'm glad that open source allowed me to do something about it rather than just sit around and complain about it being gone.
2. The new Google Groups displays messages in a proportional font and doesn't have a setting to display it in monospace. This really screws up messages that are meant to be monospaced such as source code. Google has some kind of algorithm that attempts to see if the line should be monospaced but it works poorly and shows a mixture of proportional and monospaced lines in some messages. That can make things more difficult to read.
As of Mozilla 1.8a3 I can limit stylesheets to a specific web site which allows me to fix my google groups problem. The following code in my chrome/userContent.css file lets me show google groups messages in monospace:
Right now the Mozilla trunk is where the action is for new features. Eventually new development will focus on Firefox, at which point I'll probably switch over. Until then, there are new features that I need and those needs aren't being met in Firefox (yet).
Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
Of course it can read from a local mbox file... See menu "Tools" > "Account Settings" > "Add Account" > "Movemail". I use it on a regular basis.
Nope. Firefox works perfectly well for remembering GMail Passwords.
Mozilla is slow and bloated. Firefox is simple.
Type ahead fine works better in the suite. I prefer a links only search if i just start typing, with / for the fulltext. Firefox always does fulltext.
Type ahead find doesn't work in the View Source window of FireFox.
Type ahead find doesn't work in Thunderbird.
Too many options have been removed from the preferences window in FF/TB. The new design isn't very usable for the more complicated tabs (such as Advanced).
I like right clicking a link in an email and selecting "Open in New Tab".
TB/FF don't have a window menu, making it slower to navigate between multiple windows.
Those are the main ones I can think of. Probably more that I don't run into as often.
Why won't I switch from Mozilla to Firefox / Thunderbird? Two reasons:
1. The okay / cancel buttons are reversed, and since every other program has 'okay' on the left, Firefox is impossible to adapt to. I kept cancelling my page saves! Why this change was made boggles the mind and I hope someone gets a clue and fixes it.
2. I am accustomed to doing Google searches by hitting ctl-L, typing in my search string, and arrowing down to search. The separate Google box is nice, but I think they should have retained the other capability for those of us who're used to the Mozilla interface (it's been my day-to-day browser since M16).
+++++++
"Look, dear, it's a crazy hairy scary man!"
Last I checked FF had an extremely abbreviated preferences window with the rest of the options available through an enormous about: page. I like Mozilla's prefs interface better.
Moz is also a great drop-in replacement for people who are used to NS 4.x (a population that includes many of the users I support).
Firefox seems to use an internal clipboard. Mozilla suite doesn't. Meaning that if I were to select a location or copy a url in Mozilla I can expect to middle-click it into an xterm, for example, for a wget. Or that if I select a link from elsewhere, I can middle-click that into the location bar. Not so for Firefox.
Doing the Right Thing should not be preempted by making a buck.
First off, I like to install only what I need. Mozilla is suffering from serious bloat. Secondly, the Mozilla browser still has the look and feel of the old Netscape, which I can't stand (or maybe I just have bad associations with NN 4.x). Firefox seems to be fresh, light, and fast, while Mozilla seems old, bulky, and slow. And yes, I've also standardized the entire company with Thunderbird, too.
I don't respond to AC's.
Mozilla does just what I want, even it it does take some time to load. I like having an integrated Browser/HTML Editor/E-Mail client.
At work, I run Firefox under NT4 (!) and editing HTML there is a pain in the ass - no 'Edit Page' option there. I am sure there are other ways to do this, but what I actually do at work is sufficiently taxing that looking things up (with no internet access) would just be a distraction.
Mielipiteet omiani - Opinions personal, facts suspect.
For myself to switch to Fire and T-bird I think there will need to be some links between the two. When I click on a mailto link in Fire nothing happens, nada zip zero. Not even and open with screen. Same thing when clicking a web link in T-Bird.
I like moz because the mail program is right there when you need it. As far as features go, there is not a huge difference between the two. If it wasn't for foxytunes I think I would have switched back to moz even faster than I did.
Like many others here, I don't like having a separate location bar and google bar in firefox. Just having one location bar and hitting down like in mozilla is a lot better in my mind.
.com address and requires alt-enter to open a tab for some stupid reason. Ctrl-enter is easier and faster to hit than alt-enter since the two keys are so close. Who uses URL .com completion anyway? If you don't type in the .com the browser autocompletes as it is...
But the BIG thing for me is that mozilla opens tabs with ctrl-enter, while firefox uses ctrl-enter to auto complete a URL as a
Also, I feel that the whole mozilla organization is much more reasonable. Are options really some type of "tool"? No. Mozilla got it right to put it under preferences. Just because IE did something stupid doesn't mean that firefox has to copy it.
Oh, opening a set of bookmarks as a group of tabs is a great feature in mozilla too. For some reason my firefox won't do that.
I'm a gnu world man.
I remember one of the biggest complaints about Mozilla was that it was a huge, integrated mess. Now that we have what everyone was clamboring for, what do people ask for? An integrated suite! This just goes to show you that you can't please everyone no matter what you do.
[ home ]
I still stick to Moz because the Form and Cookie Managers in Firefox are nowhere near as robust. Mozilla allows me to double-click, say, the "Name" field on a form and it'll automatically plug in my name. Firefox simply comes with that IE-style drop-down list, which I've always found annoying (especially for search boxes). Plus, with Moz, in three clicks I can fill out all major fields on a standard form that asks for name, address, e-mail, and phone. That's just convenient.
And then there's Mozilla's cookie manager, which lets you set up different levels of cookie permissions (even though the grammar in a few of the options can leave you scratching your head for a few seconds). Firefox has no such levels.
Oh, and I almost forgot about the History pane, which in Firefox is just a rip-off of IE's. In Moz, it's a separate window (I've never been too crazy about panes), and I can add separate columns for address and date, with no grouping.
So, I guess the point I'm trying to make here is from a power user's perspective, Mozilla is still simply the better choice. And until I can find Firefox extensions that I can tack on for all my needs (still waiting for that Form Manager one), I'm sticking with Moz.
"Each time you smile, it'll only last awhile. Life may be scary, but it's only temporary."
I still use the Mozilla suite because I cannot find the "Classic" skin for Firefox. When I can get the "Classic" skin, I might move to Firefox. Naw, I'm too lazy to make it myself, especially when Mozilla Suite works for me.
Normally though, I'd say Firefox is better in terms of it's design. Mozilla is a suite of apps, so that alone makes it useful... to me though, Firefox is the "Google" of the web *browser* world: small, fast, and useful results.
I stick with Mozilla because I can hit F6, type in my search terms and use the down arrow to search google. I can't remembet the last time I went to google.com.
Mozilla has everything I need that Thunderbird does and more. Thunderbird is also a little cartoony looking to me, maybe to match the ugly Windows XP interface - I guess that's a fairly subjective opinion. I don't even use mozilla suite either. Just the browser.
I've even tried o switch. My Windows 2000 server has Firefox on it but I just prefer Mozilla.
John the Kiwi
Firefox remembers all my gmail passwords. I don't know it's not remembering yours.
I would not count on this happening anytime soon (i.e. in the coming year). The GRE is still not shared between applications (I think this has been planned for two years or something like that?), and it seems there are too much fans of the actual Mozilla suite. Merging Firefox and Thunderbird in one suite, would not bring any advantages either, except that you would have to do one installation instead of two, which is not that a big issue...
At least the last time I tried, disabling format=flowed didn't work, and until it does, I'm not switching. I guess I'll try again sometime. If someone wants to do it but hasn't figured out how, my user.js follows:d _plaintext_flowed", false); // RFC 2646=======t _flowed_suppo rt", true);" , false);
===================
pref("mailnews.sen
pref("mailnews.display.disable_forma
user_pref("mail.server.default.abbreviate
pref("mail.quoted_graphical", false);
pref("mail.quoteasblock", false);
But otherwise at home I use Mozilla. The integration between the two programs is just less hassle for me and easier to use.
But at work, everyone uses firefox now. Anyone notice that firefox picks up the favicon.ico on all sites that IE can't? It's odd, but cool for FF.
Most folk'll never lose a toe, and then again some folk'll...
Composer: I give lectures and use Composer (a lot) to create 'poor man's Power Point' presentations...the advantage of this to me is enormous: I don't like Power Point - I no longer use any MS products, .html is quick and easy, I can embed any media I want into a page, and it does exactly what I need it to. I rely in Composer heavily and would be lost without it even though I have tried other methods of creating slides for my lectures.
Chatzilla: this is very handy, easy to use, and I like the interface...plus people can download it and use it in my workshops for free and it's x-platform...wish it could do file transfers but maybe it does this in the new 1.7.5?
Browser: sorry, but I don't like IE, Safari is still half-baked and while Firefox is very nice Moz has all the moving parts I need in one place without having to launch and manage new apps/windows during heavy work sessions.
it works here: ...
Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.5) Gecko/20041124 Firefox/1.0
so its not a bug in ff but in the built you (your distro) have/has
I have Gmail as one of my nine homepages in Firefox, and Firefox remembers my password perfectly. Never ever had a problem with it.
The reason you were able to save your password previously was because GMail did not originally have the autocomplete="off" attribute on their login form. They later added this attribute to their form, preventing you from saving your password from that point on.
To override this, you can use the Remember Password bookmarklet from http://www.squarefree.com/bookmarklets/forms.html
Go to the gmail page and right click on the sign in box and choose "This Frame" > "Show only this Frame" from the context menu. Then use the Remember Password bookmarklet and sign in. You should then be prompted to save your password.
For me, it is the fast access to cookie settings in the Tools menu in Mozilla. To change the setting for a page in Firefox, I have to go to the Preferences (Options in Windows) dialog and then enter the address of the site manually.
Other than that, I would use Firefox instead. Unless of course, the same feature is in Firefox and I just have not found it.
in debian Tbird and Ffox comes each with their own launch scripts that try to detect if another mozilla family member is running. if one is runnig you can't launch the other. so if i'm reading e-mail i can't launch URL from Tbird and if i'm browsing i cant read e-mail...
plus, the suite already have a (primitive) calendar that is quite handy sometimes.
What ? Me, worry ?
WORKSFORME (Debian GNU/Linux Unstable, Some gnome stuff installed, Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.5) Gecko/20041107 Firefox/1.0) )
This is why. If I set up thunder as the email client, and then firefox as the web client, that leads to more choices, and choices are what often cause significant security problems for the average user. Perhpas they will open IE instead of firefox. If the web window is already open, then the use of IE will be less likely.
So, in a setting in which the inherently insecure features of IE are not needed, running mozilla is one way to keep IE from being run. The user will load up moz for email, and continue for web browsing.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
Could this writeup be any more inflamamtory? Maybe you should throw in some jabs at various operating systems, programming languages, and desktop environments. I mean seriously, it's like you're trying to create a flamewar of screeching monkeys.
Reference Jon Stewart's "You're Hurting America" appearance on Crossfire
I have 4 computers, 2 Mozilla, 2 Thunderbird.
I like that when I start Mozilla Browser, it will check my email and tell me if there are new messages. Firefox/Thunderbird does not do this.
The other issue I have is the way tabbed bookmarks open. On Mozilla, I just left click on the group of tabbed bookmarks. On Thunderbird I have to right click and specify to open in tabs.
Another item that is odd, Mozilla has a button next to the tabs for a new tab. On one installation I can't seem to put the button there on Thunderbird. On another installation, I managed to put it there on an old version of Thunderbird and it stays there through the upgrades. I wish I knew how to get it there for my new Thunderbird installation.
I guess I could live without the integration. The tabbed bookmarks might be fixed by some advanced configuration I haven't found yet, same goes for the new tab button. Maybe I could switch, but I am not doing so for now.
You can lose something that is loose, so tighten the loose item so you don't lose it.
thus I don't use it.
Am I missing something, or is there really no way to quick launch firefox and tbird?
It takes FOREVER to open these two applications comared to the mozilla equivalents - or even IE and OE. This is my main gripe - and the grip of some people who I have switched over from IE.
I run mozilla instead of firefox/thunderbird because, well, I'm used to it and haven't seen anything that compells *me* to wanna switch. My wife runs firefox/XP, though. ;-)
'Sorry for the lame reason.
Mark
Firefox seems to be designed as a very good replacement for IE. It is faster, safer and has more features, but it cannot do what Mozilla does. I have always viewed the Fireefox and Mozilla as being for different crowds. Firefox is for those who want a fast and simple browser, but don't need the ability to customize all the settings. Mozilla is for the power users who want to tweak every portion of their browser. I for one hope no one ever replaces Mozilla with Firefox, because although I like Firefox, I don't enjoy being restricted on what I can tweak. If you don't know what I am talking about, go download it here http://www.mozilla.org/products/mozilla1.x/ Then play with the preferences, you won't be able to miss the differences.
Always remember password on this page should do what you want:
http://extensions.roachfiend.com/index.php
I still use Mozilla as my main browser when doing site development and web programming. The options easily available under Tools such as Cookie Manager, Image Manager, Popup, Form, and most important - the Web Development options.
I use Firefox when I am doing general browsing. It does everything I need it to do when I need something quick in a pinch.
I also use Thunderbird for a secondary e-mail account but the latest version doesn't work for me. I try to add accounts and they don't show up even though they are created in the Profiles directory. If it doesn't work well out of the box, I don't have the time to track down the problem and fix it. I used to have the time to figure out these problems but not lately. Which is probably a shame.
However with work I always have my e-mail open as I often receive time-sensitive e-mails. The tighter integration of the Mozilla mail client and browser is something that still works much better than Thunderbird and Firebird. Had they not added the "Send Link" in Firefox 1.0 I probably would not use the browser at all. Now if they would just add the "send page".
As a minor quibble, I also am not thrilled with the themes available for Firefox or Thunderbird (are there any that work? I couldn't get any to). I use Orbit Retro on Mozilla and find it clean and balanced and have found nothing for Firefox that really suits the look and feel I've had with Mozilla. I understand that the themes are developed by third parties and aren't inherent to the software itself. Still, look and feel is important when I have to sit down and use a piece of software 8 to ten hours out of the day.
2. Resource savings. Using a firefox/thunderbird combo I have to wait for the browser to startup and I have to wait for my mail clien to start up everytime I start it. When I start mozilla I only have to wait once.
3. I don't have to download an extension or post to forum everytime I want to change a less then totally common option.
China is the #1 source of viruses, spam, and malware. Watch out.
Well, you can still edit the userContent.css file in Firefox, it just doesn't support specific websites. However the `class="mbody"' attribute is probably very unique, so you shouldn't notice a difference on other websites
And even if Firefox is behind in some core features, the ability to use extentions means that it has features the Mozilla Suit will probably never have, because they would look like bloat to most users. That's the power of extentions - everyone can have their cake.
Oh, and on the topic of the configuration files, there is a very nice (although currently incompatible) extention for Firefox that allows editting these files from withing the browser itself. It's called "ChromeEdit".
Anton Markov
*** Linux - May the source be with you! ***
Mostly because it doesn't work that well. I couldn't even get Java to work with it for Pete's sake. There's not even a dialog to choose your Java!
Sure, a lot of good work went into it and it seems to work for a lot of people, but really, a typical user doesn't want to futz with config files, downloading/installing extensions, etc. Something as basic as a browser should just work. Firefox doesn't for me. Opera does. Opera has everything bundled together nicely and it works great "out of the box". I think it would be a greater service to our User friends who are sick of IE to encourage them to try Opera, because it is way more user-friendly, than Firefox, which may work great after a great deal of effort.
I've purchased Opera for Windows and Linux and am glad I did. You truly do get what you pay for.
"Would it kill you to put down the toilet seat?" -- Maya Angelou
For reasons, I suppose I find having mail and web integrated makes more sense for the way I use the net. I like the way mozilla handles its options better. I *love* Gashu's 'lo-fi' theme and I'm pretty sure it's moz-only. Very spare and plain and tasteful and leaves a lot of browsing real estate.
But it's not really a reason. I was late coming to the net - used an offline DOS box for years before - and was one of those 'hit the blue thing' surfers. I got sick of it simultaneous with hearing something about Mozilla 1.0. I downloaded it and fell in love. It opened up what felt like a more 'real' web to me. I've used it ever since. I simply don't *want* anything else. When I switched to Linux shortly thereafter, *everything* was different - except mozilla. When I was googling and poring through TLDP, no matter how frazzled I was with Linux problems, I was always 'home' in my browser. Firefox just doesn't feel like home and never will. Reminds me a little too much of the browser I left, if anything.
There's just a few apps that I mesh with and moz is one.
It seems to me, there's really no advantage to merging Firewox/Thunderbird into a single product - and meanwhile, Mozilla "fills the bill" for people who *do* prefer these types of apps bundled into one program.
So much depends on your OS preference and situation.
EG. On my Apple Powerbook running OS X, I'm pretty comfortable using the built-in "Mail" application. It does all of the basics I need (even things like spam filtering) and is tightly integrated into the OS (address book, etc.). I do, however, want the benefits of a better/faster browser - so I like having FireFox on it. There'd be no reason I'd prefer Mozilla (or a TBird/FFox combo) instead, since it'd just mean loading up a larger app than I needed each time I wanted to view web pages.
On the flip-side, I could get used to a combo web/email product on my Windows box - because both Outlook Express and IE could stand being replaced, and as often as not, I seem to leave both email and web browser running at the same time anyway on this system.
There are some pages (forms,images,etc) that do not display or work under Firefox, but do with Mozilla. While I'm pretty sure that the fault lies with web developers designing for IE only, I still need Mozilla as a backup for some pages. That's not to say that I haven't messed something up with Firefox myself, but it's unlikely.
--dingletec--
That's a big problem for me. And why wouldn't the subject box let me put a question mark on the end of my subject??
I think you may be thinking of an old behaviour in really old firebird/phoenix/whatever.
It used to be if you clicked in the URL bar, it would highlight the URL without copying it. This would allow you to "paste over" an existing URL without hassle, something that is not easy in X because the way the clipboard works normally.
They changed it back in later version to have a behavior more consistant with normal X behavior.
I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
It was an annoyance but it looks like the firefox devs have fixed it https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=27267 8
I would run Mozilla to build up my cookie whitelist then import them into Firefox. Any build prior to 1209 seemed affected by this. Just a little privacy netpick of mine.
It was probably done to make it easier for new users. I know my parents, for example, are intimidated by the options dialogue in IE or Mozilla/Netscape.
For us advanced users, there is always the about:config URL and some other extentions such as Tweak Network: https://addons.update.mozilla.org/extensions/morei nfo.php?application=firefox&id=327&vid=989 and others I can't find now.
Anton Markov
*** Linux - May the source be with you! ***
Firefox is not a full web browser like Mozilla (which is the successor of good old Netscape). I don't like Firefox.
Two reasons to keep Mozilla Suite:
.8 from 1.0, as .8 seems to be the last stable version.
* The mail part of the equation is more stable than Thunderbird, which crashes and behaves oddly. I had to downgrade to
* You can't middle-button-click on an email link and have it come up as a new tabbed window in FireFox. Very handy behavior.
JH
In Mozilla I'm logged in as "Stormy Eyes" and in Firefox I'm logged in as "Redseal"
Even though there's no logical connection, I spend a large chunk of my time on the system doing email and browsing, so the better those two work together, the better I like it. Bottom line: FF/TB don't work together nearly as well as the suite does.
-
Opening links in the other component is slower (maybe a lot) when it's a different app.
-
I work over a modem at home, so on/off line state is twice the hassle with two apps.
-
There's no one place to select a specific window (Moz has the 'Window' menu)
-
Themes don't match (without extra work).
Same goes for the composer, which I use frequently for making my own 'printable' page which actually has plain, readable text.I haven't tried it myself, but there is an extention for Firefox which claims to let you resize the searchbox: https://addons.update.mozilla.org/extensions/morei nfo.php?application=firefox&id=349&vid=1245
That is the power of Firefox. It's much easier to add new features or "fix" things you don't like. No need to go hacking the sourcecode or re-compiling it!
Anton Markov
*** Linux - May the source be with you! ***
Tools->CookieManager->ManageStoredCookies, for one. I'm in there probably a dozen time a day. You can leave the dialog up and watch the cookies as they come in, and delete them whenever you want. Since site access controls are often cookie-based, that can be quite useful. Firefox has a similar interface, but it's buried deep in the Preferences menu and not nearly as convenient to use.
Formerly, I would also have cited control over animated images (I like to let mine cycle only once, since blinking stuff drives me nuts). That was a show-stopper for me until I discovered that you can do it in Firefox by editing a config file (prefs.js, I think). Still, most users aren't going to do that.
What are your reasons for running the old standby suite over the Firefox/Thunderbird combo?
Multizilla
Resistance is futile. Reactance buggers it up.
I have to keep Mozilla around because there are somethings that firefox or konqueror still don't do well. Javascript for instance. And the place I work seems completely enamoured with SurveyMonkey.com - which doesn't work on those two either....
My wife & I have a few computers here running win2k and win98, and we are still using mozilla 1.6. We have both tried to upgrade to 1.7.1, 1.7.2 & 1.7.3 but regularly run into sites that wedge or crash the browser. Bank of America comes to mind as an example site that has been unusable. Schwab.com might be another one, it's been a while since I've last given up on 1.7x (sorry). Every time we've tried to upgrade we've been stymied by maybe 3 to 5 percent of the sites we need, so we go back to 1.6 without problems.
/. feelers on this, my past searches would lead me to believe that the lady & I are alone in out 1.7 problems, but our troubles are consistent enough that I find that hard to believe and want to get a handle on what the problem is and how do we make 1.7 go. Help? Thanks!
I assume that our problems are not universal or they would have been fixed in some of the 1.7 updates (& I have had the mozilla crash handler send plenty of logs to the mozilla dev team).
Is it known that some mozilla 1.7 systems have problems on a substantial number of sites, and if so what is common amongst the problematic setups or sites, and how is it best addressed?
Our windows computers are otherwise lean, clean, & problem free, and moz 1.6 is consistently without trouble. I would like to pick up the bug fixes and optimizations of 1.7, but have so far failed to successfully transition to the last 3 or 4 releases. Firefox isn't (yet) for me as I like the way mozilla is configured.
Sorry I don't have better details for y'all but I wanted to put out
Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
When will they have something that works as well as aspell (called from pine) (for quality of getting the right word) or eudora (for that + the right click replace options, and real-time checking as you type)?
--
draziw
What are your reasons for running the old standby suite over the Firefox/Thunderbird combo?
I still use Mozilla because of Multizilla and Googlebox, which do not yet run on Firefox.
Multizilla is a tabbed browsing extension that allows you to do things like duplicate tabs, gather tabs from other instances of Mozilla, set permissions on a tab-by-tab basis (e.g, turn off image loading, turn off javascript, turn-off plug-ins, etc.), force auto-reload of a tab on a timed basis, reopen tabs that you closed, and more.
Googlebox, it a toolbar for searching and it's very handy. I won't waste space describing it when it's done much better at the provided link.
I don't use Thunderbird or Mozilla as my e-mail client as I prefer Outlook 2003 (not Express). Please, no anti-Microsoft comments. I tried lots of clients, including Thunderbird, Mozilla, The Bat, Eudora, Poco Mail, and Pegasus Mail, before deciding on Outlook 2003. Whether you like MS or not, it's a damned good client (though not without flaws).
Easier said than done on some platforms. Nvu as a stand-alone application is fairly new, and not supported on on a lot of Linux distros. For example, I use Ubuntu, and there's a whole song-and-dance to go through just to install it.
h owto/helpcenterhowto.2004-10-20.3307060179/view?se archterm=nvu
http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/
I'm a slightly above-average joe desktop user, but if I can't find what I want using Synaptic, then I don't bother.
I'm sitting on pins and needles for Nvu to be available in Ubuntu's Universe repository. I don't want to bother having the Mozilla suite, and Firefox, and Thunderbird, and Nvu. It's just waaay to redundant.
--- Dan
Mozilla suite includes a simple, useful HTML editor that is not available with the Firefox/Thunderbird combo.
I hope someone fishes this editor code out and maintains it.
When will I be able to install the Gecko runtime (along with all the other common components, XUL, XPCOM, etc) only ONCE, then have any/all of the Gecko based apps (Firefox, Thunderbird, Chatzilla, NVU, Sunbird, etc...) actually share all that supposedly common code ?
nbiar
Because I default open a browser and the email anyway, and I most always used netsacpe communicator in the past so it's about the same thing.. I don't really see much difference in having one app open or two. What I would like to know (don't have thunderbird so I can't check) what is the cpu and memory footprint between moz suite, or having firefox and tbird open at the same time? Is there really much difference in speed and memory usage?
I could not find a BitTorrent link for Mozilla on the mozilla.org web pile. So here I am downloading via ftp. Expected duration: 3.1 hours.
The choices seem to be "newsgroup account" and "Email account" when setting up a new account. Where does one find this "movemail" option?
This post written under Gentoo-linux with an SCO IP license.
because it is more Netscape like than Firefox is. Firefox leans heavy in the IE direction. Of course a lot of people like this about it, but I don't.
Both browsers are good performers, I just don't go for the little interface annoyances I see growing in Firefox.
To the developers: Hey, it could just be me, so don't take that personally. You do have plenty of Firefox downloads afterall.
Blogging because I can...
At least on Winblows, the Mozilla installer, if you choose the "custom" install option, lets you install, or not, the E-mail portion of mozilla, etc. Since I don't use IRC, I don't install the chatZilla part of it.
I've tried FireFox, and I like it - but I still prefer Mozilla. I just prefer having several individual browsers rather than tabbed browsers by default from a middle-mouse click. Tabbed browsing isn't so bad when you get the keyboard commands down - but when selecting between several applications, I just find it faster to use the taskbar and alt-tab to go between browsers rather than select Mozilla, then hunt for the right tab.
If Firefox could allow me to change the action of the middle-mouse button back to Mozilla-style new browser, then I'd gladly switch over - but there's no need now, so I prefer Mozilla for my own systems.
Ryan Fenton
It's really weird; Moz ate my old OE mail just fine (even though it was internally screwed up to where *OE* couldn't!) and now I've got scads of archived stuff in folders in Mozilla mail.
Loaded Thunderbird (.8), it wouldn't recognize my Moz mail (Mozilla 1.7.3) for love or money.
I'll get Moz 1.7.5 up first and once debugged grab the latest TBird and try again. But the ability to read mail files that closely related is...gawd, *basic*, no?
I've just started up moz (it's been a while) and I'm surprised that they even bothered putting the extra search box in that isn't big enough and gets in the way.
I can't see how they though it was easier to use then a great big button with the word search written on it.
Having two possible text input boxes instead of one is a big step in the wrong direction.
someones already raised the bug and it got the usual , it hurts me head to think about this one, won't fix, should be an extension.
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
I just want more of the same. Faster, smaller, more stable, more ports, more porable.
Would be nice to be able to fit firefox onto a floppy, as opera used to be able to do. Another version should be about speed compiled with -O4 using intels C compiler for x86, sun forte for sparc etc. As for ports, instead of more binaries I'd rather see the code being made more easily portable. I certainly wouldnt mind an SDL or SVGALIB version of firefox for linux bypassing X, or an AAlib version competing with lynx.
Lastly I wouldnt mind an MSI version that can be easily deployed with specific configs across a microsoft network, and be made the default browser while all signs of IE are removed. Heres an even better idea, renaming firefox iexplore.exe and replacing the executable, while making firefox embeddable into explore.exe. The runtime requirements of windows suddenly becomes 32MB less ram.
"Give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you." -Nim Chimpsky
Gotta have it for debugging javascript.
?
u ite much easier (and this was supposed to have happened already in 1.6, if you remember...).
It is totally asinine that if you run several Mozilla products (here Camino and Thunderbird/Mac), each one of them has to have the WHOLE XUL platform (1) compiled in and (2) waste resources at runtime.
IMHO this should be THE first focus of the Mozilla team, as it would also allow much easier installation of Mozilla applications and make the combining-Firefuck-and-Thunderborg-into-The-New-S
Anonymous Cow
1. On Linux, unless you're running Gnome or KDE, the integration between TB and FF is non-existent. Clicking on a mailto link in FF does not bring up TB, and clicking on a link in TB does not open FF.
2. Linux again: If you are using both the browser and the mail client, and you are compiling your own software, it's easier to download and compile a single tarball than grab the separate components.
3. On Windows: If I'm installing this for a friend or relative who doesn't know a lot about computers, I'm usually wanting all of the apps anyway: The browser to browse the web, the mail client to get mail, chatzilla so they can easily go to my website and click the irc:// link to talk to me, etc. Saves me a lot of time to just download and install mozilla than tracking down all of these apps separately.
Basically, it boils down to this: If all you need is the browser, then it's overkill to download the suite. But as soon as you need the mail program or anything else in addition, it's a lot less trouble to download the suite rather than downloading everything separately.
Why do I still use Mozilla Suite?
Send Page.
Why do I use Firefox?
Can close browser without closing mail or vice versa.
Mozilla seems to get sluggish if I continue to use the same instance for days (probably due to memory fragmentation jumbling the disk swap space), so when it gets sluggish it is nice to be able to close the browser without closing logged in mail accounts, or close mailer with all its spam filtering space without closing working browser tabs.
1. I like the way search is integrated into the URL bar, as opposed to having that separate search bar.
2. I use Mozilla Mail, Chatzilla, and Mozilla Calendar, and I like the way they are all nicely integrated.
3. I use Multizilla, which last time I checked, does not work on Firefox.
4. I don't like the Firefox preferences panel(s). It's too "dumbed down", plus I'm just used to the way that stuff works in Mozilla.
5. I prefer the Mozilla style sidebar over the Firefox sidebar.
Having said that, what I would like to see, is for the Mozilla developers to continue developing Firefox, Thunderbird, Sunbird, Composer, etc. as standalone apps, but create provide necessary hooks to integrate them. That is, I'd like to be able to use anywhere from none to all of the Mozilla products, and where I choose to use multiple ones (say Firefox and Thunderbird) they will have the kind of integration that Mozilla Suite has now.. but without the annoyance of having your email app shutdown if your browser crashes (or vice versa).
And of course they could offer downloads both as discrete pieces, or as packaged bundles with various combinations of the pieces.
Regular old Mozilla will still have a better UI, however, even in this scenario.
// TODO: Insert Cool Sig
How about "Bookmark this group of tabs". Firefox makes it much more of a pain.
See here: http://www.hacksrus.com/~ginda/chatzilla/ I've been using it in Firefox for quite some time, works handy. Even semi-works (with some tweaks for overlapping keystrokes) in a tab.
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
Why would I want to use a giant behemoth of an editor like FrontPage (how does that address the Mac exactly?) or Dreamweaver when you have a perfectly useful and simple HTML editor in Composer? I use it all the time to throw simple stuff together, it's a reason why I mostly use Mozilla at work as well (that and the Javascript debugger, does Firefox have that as an extension yet?).
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Check their download page here: http://www.nvu.com/download.html
Or for those too lazy...
Mac OS X:
nvu-0.60-mac.dmg
Windows:
nvu-0.60-win32-installer-full.exe
nvu-0.60-win32-installer-full.zip
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
For starters: Mozilla's preferences menu allows a lot finer control of the options than Firefox's. This is very puzzling: why would the Firefox team remove options and then turn around and hide them under the "about:config" panel? Is this some kind of an Easter egghunt or something?
Second, cookies. Mozilla's cookie handling was great; FF leaves a lot to be desired. Usually I disable cookies; but some sites refuse to work without cookies, and in which case I have to enable session cookies. Mozilla had a convenient option under Tools. Even if I mistakenly denied the cookies from a site, one could go to Tools -> Cookies -> Allow session cookies to conveniently allow from the site. Under FF, if you disallow cookies from a site, you have to go to Edit -> Preferences -> Privacy -> Exceptions; and then hunt around for the site in that list (without any convenient search function). It takes much longer to enable session cookies for sites once they've been disallowed.
While the FF team is doing a great job of coming up with a standalone browser, their "usability" decisions leave something to be desired.
...because of the cool extras.
I mean, I already use Thunderbird for mail.
But the webpage editor is a great to scrap together a webpage (and then clean up the HTML by hand), the Chatzilla is great way to access IRC channels, if for nothing else, for free Linux user support, and for quite a few other things...
if all these come as stanalone appliations from Mozilla (no, no mIrc, no Dreamweaver please...) then I'll probably abandon Mozilla.
45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
Mozilla is far superior in that I can tune it once and then download upgrades in one swift sweep. WIth Firefox I would have to download a zillion addons as well - addons that are already included and set - once and for all - as my user preferences in Mozilla.
Easy usage and integration with Composer and Mailnews is also important. But it's all those little things that really make it excel - like the search function. In Firefox its impossible to perform a search from URL-bar - or even the "search bar" - without using the keyboard.
In Mozilla I just paste whatever words i want to search for, then click the GO button.
In Firefox, i have to paste - then i don't see half of what i pasted because the search-bar is too small - and then i have to go out of bed, across the room, over to the PC and keyboard, and then hit the Enter button, to perform the search.
Mozilla goes that extra mile for me. Ease of use is why I use a computer in the first place. Firefox is clunky and amateurish in comparition to the suite.
I can understand why they wanted a more clean cut alternative to MSIE, but less is always less - not more. Mozilla is just the best browser/mail/composer suite around. Even if I didn't use mail or the editor, I would still stick with Mozilla. I can't see any benefits from the stripped down version that is Firefox. If i want similar features i will have to download from several places. All it all it takes me much longer than to deal with the suite.
I find it regrettable that the great Mozilla project now seems to disintegrate into inferior fractions of itself. It slows down development.
For composer of course, it's good for knocking out mockups, and that nvu thing doesn't seem quite finshed yet... composer is quite good! (Still I hand code my real pages...)
First off my I use the fluxbox window manager on gentoo. Since fluxbox is lightwieght it doesn't link thunderbird and firefox together. So I can't click on a link someone emails me in thunderbird or a mailto link in firefox and have it come up. It does come up in mozilla. I know this is not an issue in KDE or gnome because those are feature full (also bloated) window managers. I do consider this a bug and assume that it will be fix sometime. My second reason is the html editor. I like it because it keep the html simple and doesn't put tons of extra crap into it like say Frontpage. Even the editor in open office I think goes to far.
if you install firefox and thuderbird on linux, the two are too stupid to realize that the other one is there. so, I cannot click on a web link in thunderbird and a mailto link in firefox, and get results. yes, this may be possible to set up, but it should work out of the box.
general gripes:
* why is there no feature to easily move address books across computers?
* why do these not come with the option of having all free plugins already pre-installed?
* why is there no collaborative spam filter built into thunderbird?
I still use the Mozilla suite over Firefox for one basic reason.
"Password manager" on Firefox is horrendously crippled. See bug here
This bug is a showstopper for me and countless others, but it continues to categorized as "minor". How odd.
_Am
It has been my 'default' browser off and on since 0.7, but speed/memory is something I always hated about Mozilla.
When FF came out, it was just faster in every department and my computer had no problems running it. With the built-in Google search, I didn't have ot download Google search bar extension.
The only thing I ever use vanilla Moz for is for the rad JavaScript debugger. But if it's a tool you need, it's worth having Moz Suite installed- it's quite nice.
Working toward a usable PDA environment in the spirit of Newton OS: Dynapad
is that sometimes i have to hit the reload button when i go to the slasdot thread from the main page.
I think it may choking on the ads when it tries to display them. i'm not web coder though. i just maintain networks and machines
- memory resident icon for faster launching
- can search google from the main address box
What are your reasons for running the old standby suite over the Firefox/Thunderbird combo?
Weak processor and small memory. I have only 3.5GHz CPU and 2 GiGs of RAM so I am stuck with KDE K* suite only...
There you are, staring at me again.
I have since switched to Firefox and Thunderbird, but I used the Mozilla suite for some time. I liked the fact that it would stay in memory so I could open a new browser window very quickly even if I didn't have the browser already open.
At the time, I also used Mozilla Composer a little bit for a very simple website I was running. I don't like FrontPage or any of the other programs, and I had never used a WYSIWYG HTML program before Mozilla Composer. I always wrote websites in a text editor, but not for this one. Since I have stopped maintaining that website, I had no reason to keep Mozilla around.
I like to keep Thunderbird open all the time, and I've found that Firefox + Thunderbird takes up less memory than the entire Mozilla suite being open all the time.
Well, in fact it looks like many of the features of the mentioned extension are actually implemented as user stylesheets!
Mozilla's download manager is much more acceptable than Firefox's pretty little toy. Especially considering that when I tried Firefox I quickly turned off the Download Manager because my browser would lock up as it was opening, and that is just plain unacceptable.
And I know a lot of you hardcore types don't like the idea of something staying preloaded in your browser
IMHO Mozilla is BLOATWARE.
I use Firefox (cookies enabled) and Opera (cookies and pop-ups disabled) for my web browsing needs. Trillian takes care of my IM needs, and Eudora is my tool of choice for email. IE only gets used for Windows Update.
In Moz, I can tell it to ask me to about every cookie, whether first- or third-party. I can't (well, haven't figured out how to) do this in FF. I prefer the fine-grained control over cookies that Moz gives me.
For that matter, Moz used to have an option to ask me about every *image*, but that went away many versions ago. Oh, how I miss that!!!!!!!!!!!! It made me feel safer against web bugs.
"Don't blame the log for the fire." --Andrew Ratshin
Open Sourcedness is not the decisive factor, usability is. That's where Opera wins over any Mozilla variant, any day: it does what I want, right out of the box.
Now, if only they could just make it GTK2-based, instead of QT-based...
Software is not supposed to be about how to work around a useability issue. - Ken Barber
For a while I switched back to Mozilla on my home machine also, because Firefox was crashing way too often, but it's getting a bit better and Mozilla's occasionally crashing now.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
For awhile, Firefox did not have master password support for encrypting remembered passwords. For sensitive logins, I either used Figaro's Password Manager, or switched to Mozilla. Now, ffx supports the PSM, so I no longer need Mozilla at all.
Although I like some features from Firefox for web browsing, Firefox has one showstopper flaw for me: Firefox doesn't let you turn off URL bar autocomplete. I feel like I'm losing my privacy every time I type in a URL into Firefox.
Mozilla suite makes it trivially easy to turn off URL bar autocomplete. You don't have to lose your history.
Opening links into tabs with the middle mouse button was nice in Firefox, and downloading files to my Desktop with alt-click is nice too, but I don't think I should have to reveal where I've browsed lately to onlookers just because I want to go somewhere else by typing in a URL.
Digital Citizen
http://shit.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/12/18/1 524227
I agree with many of the other coments here such as liking the way mozilla does google searches as oposed to the seperate box in firefox but my main reasons is this:
I really like the fact that I can close the mail application and it still sticks around and pops up an icon in the system tray when there is a new message. If you use thunderbird theres no way that I've seen to get it off of the task bar/sys tray when you are not using it. I always have a browser open but I don't like keeping my mail program open. Mozilla lets me do this so until TB has a minimize to tray I'll stick with the suite.
Belive in Technology and AMAZE yourself. -- RIP ZDTV/TechTV
The IMAP implementation in TB is much smoother than Mozilla. Behavior in Mozilla is not consistent - hangs opening folders and emails are common. TB always works.
Why would I run Mozilla anymore, instead of Firefox, when Firefox is "the faster, better web browser", and common bugfixes arrive in Firefox first? I don't use Mozilla project tech for email or Usenet, or RSS consumption. Whjy would I use it for anything?
--
make install -not war
I realize this is a Windoze-specific thing, but...
Mozilla has a DDE interface, Firefox does not. This means that remote control of Mozilla by, e.g., a bookmark program is possible. See http://www.kaylon.com/browsersupport.html for example. That's why I stay with Moz.
they're not well integrated enough under *ix.
is to try my best to crash it and send mozilla.org some pieces of useful information, so they could improve their small gecko.
There is a spark in every single flame bait point.
The only reason I haven't switched to Firefox is because it lacks the little button, on the left, to open a new tab.
I still use mozilla because the firefox uh, how to put this diplomatically, Zealots, remodelled the new tab button of the tab bar. I have used mozilla for years now and my brain is hard wired to click that little button. I understand the firefox folks want to remove cruft and excess UI but the button is less junky than the interface they have now. Right now you can double-click empty space on the bar for a new tab UNTIL you have several tabs and there is no more empty space. That is inconsistent. Save code space by ripping that shit out or fix it by always leaving blank space on the bar. Another way to get a new tab is for you to right-click and traverse a popup menu. A function I use in frequency just behind "close tab" and "back" should not require navigation of menus! No doubt someone will jump in and tell me I can use a key combo to create a new tab. That is inconsistent for people who browse using visual controls for every other frequent function though. The argument for code size is a joke also as you CAN add a new tab button to the navigation or bookmarks bar but just not to the tab bar where it belongs as the ying to the close tab's yang. Before someone yells extension; yes there are extensions to add a new tab button, however, I use a different skin so it looks like ass, doesn't change graphics on click like the original button, and is often disabled by version upgrades. I still use the mozilla suite even with its banged up bookmark handling for this simple reason. And before anyone who jerks it thinking about firefox trys to tear me up, Please consider my reasoned arguments for the UI and try to debate them instead of hurling an insult OK?
Sometimes at night I imagine the darkness is filled with horrible things with too many teeth, like Julia Roberts.
"Graphic Loop Control"
FireFox doesn't give as much control (anyplace obvious anyway) over things like whether a graphic loop will "play once, loop, or not animate at all".
There have been several settings that I have gone fishing for in FireFox and not subsequently found.
I have seen add-ins that claim to do some of the "missing" things, but I'll stay with the fully-featured mozilla for now.
I do give FireFox to the IE clones at work, but I use the full suite at home and work.
Innocent people shouldn't be forced to pay for inferior software development.
--"Code Complete" Microsoft Press
This whole Firefox vs Moz thing is quite ridiculous. I and many others use the suite simply because we like the suite. Integrating email, browsing, and editing are just as logical as integrating editing, debugging, and profiling. Where did this push to force people to accept some singular view of how things ought to be come from anyway?
Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
Does FF/TB share dynamic ibraries or do they still load a separate copy?
I personally use Galeon whenever I can - it's faster, lighter, and has a much more powerful interface and better features - but when faced between the Mozilla suite and Firefox I still choose the suite for one reason:
Ctrl-Enter in the address bar!!
This often-overlooked feature is probably the most important for me. Firefox still does not open a new tab if you press Ctrl-Enter in the address bar, and I use that feature quite constantly.
May sound a bit ridiculous, but it is true...
Creative misinterpretation is your friend.