We're talking about symmetry in terms of chunks of data being moved. I.e. the typical user, who might watch a video off the BBC News website. A 3.4 MB downstream. Almost nothing upstream. One could say that's the typical market that DSL was created for. Then people start trying to BE the BBC News website, or the 'cheap equivalent,' meaning they're piping big chunks of data upstream.
I certainly wasn't talking about technical details of the symmetry of a protocol.
I thought this discussion was about P2P, i.e. people moving big chunks of data around, often that they don't 'own' or have 'rights' to distribute.
It's all fine and nice to pretend everybody is a content creator. Very few people are. Big bunches of people just grab someone else's stuff, add distortion (i.e. compress it in a lossy fashion) and then shuffle it around with friends and strangers. It's obviously a better world where it's original content, and people are sharing their actual creative work. But not much of it is that yet.
Actually, that would be if you sucked down all the hysteria sites and propaganda garbage.
What I recall is that a whole lot of extra effort was exerted to make sure that even though Algore couldn't get the 'favorite son' voters from his own state to vote for him, that an accurite count (not just a 'recount' in the select precincts that certain storied interests felt would 'tip the scales' in their favor) was conducted.
We can carry on for hours and hours on this shit, because the hissyfit happened, all the shit got thrown up into the air, etc. Quite a jobs program for all those law school graduates, one might note. Enough 'work for worthless fucks' to last a lifetime.
right. because we all know that the underfunded, understaffed registrar of voters never fails to remove everyone from the voting rolls when they die, move away, etc. without telling them about it.
In Indianapolis this year, the registar tried mailing out postcards to try to clean out the stale and inaccurate voter registry.
As a result various predictable interest groups rolled all over on the ground pissing all over themselves in fury.
There is NO SUCH THING as a 'national popular vote.'
The only way to come up with a national 'total' is for journalists to run around the country adding up numbers where they are valid and constitutional, which is at the State level.
And since the choices posed to the voters at the state level vary significantly (i.e. all those states where the Democrats were able to crush third-party candidates like Nader), the numbers can't be directly added up.
We live in a democratic republic. People who don't understand the Constitution should cease blathering on until they've educated themselves of this fact.
PDF files can be hyperlinked, tables of content can be generated for them, etc. They can be annotated by people in collaborative groups.
I use Acrobat to scan paper documents directly into PDF format. My sheetfed scanner will do doubleside scans.
A 'print filter' is a pathetic comparison. I guess, however, if that's the only tool you have for generating PDF. ..
There isn't any tool at a realistic price range that compares to Cool Edit. My point really wasn't to raise these examples as 'absolute' claims, but rather to show a few examples where app developers went deep into the task and developed Windows Apps to meet a need. Linux is quite weak in the area of Multimedia authoring apps.
Microsoft licenses do in fact generate serious legal, financial, and IT issues for many groups.
And that's just fine. The GPL generates serious legal, financian, and IT issues as well. And it should generate issues, or it's a toothless and worthless waste of time.
But I know. Microsoft was found to be a Monopoly by a particularly wrathful judge (which generated a lot of head shaking from others in the court system), so they're pinned down for all of eternity and ordinary rules don't apply to them.
For anything more serious than "I can't print" (hyperbole, but not all that much), I just reinstall XP.
Sorry. You don't sound like a very qualified support person. There are 'boardswapping drones' in hardware repair, and have been since the minicomputer era. There are parts swappers at auto shops.
I won't say 'beneath contempt' because perhaps you just haven't had enough training.
the same hardware with Linux and all the extras you will likely ever want, or for an extra $150 you can have bare-bones Windows
The hitch, though, is that everything the consumer wants isn't available on Linux.
Until there is a seamless 'Install Shield' type mechanism, and racks of games and other software that people can buy and install on their Linux system, they won't want a Linux system.
I have personally gone for over a year at a time on only-Linux system at home, starting back in 1994. I used Linux-only for most of the year 1998. Shit, I've put 'comments' on snail-mail offers from Microsoft and shipped 'em back at them.
Linux doesn't cut it, for a lot of uses that a lot of people find important. Until there's a full WYSIWYG PDF editor like Adobe Acrobat (no, 'print to PDF' and 'PDF viewer' doesn't do it), until there's a powerful Sound editor like Cool Edit, it won't suffice for me. And those are just two instances.
The $150 bare-bones Windows at least can be realistically enhanced with stuff people want, in the ways they're accustomed to getting them. Come back when Linux is close to being done.
Yggdrasil was the first 'distro' packaged to be installed off a CD-ROM, but it was NOT the first distro. Plus, I have the first Infomagic 'UNIX' cdrom **, which had SLS on it (in additional to NetBSD and 386BSD) which is a slightly older pressed-CD product than that first white-cover-green-ink Yggdrasil release (which most people who carry on about Yggdrasil never saw in any event)
(** Predecessor of the big multi-CD 'Linux Resource' sets that Infomagic sporatically published so 'the rest of us' without the bandwidth could get our Linux fix)
I just wish Bin Laden had explicitly endorsed Ted Kennedy's fistpuppet instead of beating around the bush on the topic. It would be good therapy for the American public to have somebody to crush the juice out of, and Bin Laden himself is still, for a while, out of reach.
Who said anything about 'recycling'? You detract from the point I was making
But anyways, you're right. 'Recycling' just filters, sorts, and concentrates dangerous toxins into concentrated piles. The people 300 years from now who prosper by strip mining old landfills and are reaping huge amounts of valuable resources by processing it will curse the recyclers and the 'brownfields' of highly concentrated waste created by clueless fuck 'do-gooders' before humanity had the proper means to handle the waste properly.
How many BSD ISOs do you need? You download one, install it, then fetch updates and what-not.
You're one of those ISO collectors who is the freenix communities (the portion who pay for FTP site bandwidth, anyways) worst enemies, it seems. 'Whoah, they came out with NetBSD-1.6.7, all I have is 1.6.6. I better download the whole damn thing for all architectures again, in case I ever get a VAX between now and the time when 1.6.8 comes out and I have to download it all again.'
IOW- lame excuse for why you 'need' all that P2P traffic, dude.
Actually, another five years and there will be a solid but tiny subculture of angry nerds who have no idea what the rest of their culture enjoys. A small pack of angry denizens of their parent's basement, wearing tattered 'Boycott the RIAA' t-shirts that nobody else knows what the hell mean, on those rare occasions when they venture out.
An analogy for what you're bemoaning the lack of can be illustrated by a football game.
A football game with 'symmetrical bandwidth' is one in which each person in the crowd has a bullhorn of equal output power. There's a reason not everybody at the game is allowed to blast their thoughts out to everyone else at full volume. Similarly, 'symmetrical traffic' on the 'net is a bullshit concept that has no relevance to how people use the net.
I'm sorry, but 'non-symmetrical bandwidth' is a non-problem. People who have large volumes of their own content (as opposed to people shoving around the same bytes to each other endlessly in a pathetic contest to see who can gather the most 'bulk' in content) can pay for 'send' bandwidth.
The economic model for DSL and other 'asymmetrical' connections is real. But carry on pretending it's a conspiracy if it amuses you to do so.
(and yes, moderator-fucks. tag this a 'troll' because it both confuses and angers you)
Traffic has never been symmetric. The whole concept of communications implies that information travels to where it is needed/wanted. There's no balance or symmetry implied, and none should be assumed.
This tricky 'bandwidth' term you're throwing around. ..
Are you sure you're not just trying to be clever with words?
I was just clarifying and extending the discussion. Little of that kind of software exists for the Mac, which is largely a 'peronal Desktop' machine. Not a scientific/technical machine.
Slashdot Mirror
'Florida 2000' is precisely the kind of 'information' that Wikipedia is least credible with.
The truth isn't a shouting match.
We're talking about symmetry in terms of chunks of data being moved. I.e. the typical user, who might watch a video off the BBC News website. A 3.4 MB downstream. Almost nothing upstream. One could say that's the typical market that DSL was created for. Then people start trying to BE the BBC News website, or the 'cheap equivalent,' meaning they're piping big chunks of data upstream.
I certainly wasn't talking about technical details of the symmetry of a protocol.
I thought this discussion was about P2P, i.e. people moving big chunks of data around, often that they don't 'own' or have 'rights' to distribute.
It's all fine and nice to pretend everybody is a content creator. Very few people are. Big bunches of people just grab someone else's stuff, add distortion (i.e. compress it in a lossy fashion) and then shuffle it around with friends and strangers. It's obviously a better world where it's original content, and people are sharing their actual creative work. But not much of it is that yet.
I liked the Platypus Linux Logo.
It seems nuts to me to use a bird that devolved so much it forgot how to fly as a mascot.
Well, the Germans were efficient about it, but there's always room for improvement.
Once the gates and bars are in place, only the rules need to be changed. I thought that was obvious. Perhaps it's not.
at least the actual mechanism of a paper ballot is transparent
Ummm, actually, by necessity, the mechanism of the paper is opaque.
Better luck next time. hah
Actually if you recall
Actually, that would be if you sucked down all the hysteria sites and propaganda garbage.
What I recall is that a whole lot of extra effort was exerted to make sure that even though Algore couldn't get the 'favorite son' voters from his own state to vote for him, that an accurite count (not just a 'recount' in the select precincts that certain storied interests felt would 'tip the scales' in their favor) was conducted.
We can carry on for hours and hours on this shit, because the hissyfit happened, all the shit got thrown up into the air, etc. Quite a jobs program for all those law school graduates, one might note. Enough 'work for worthless fucks' to last a lifetime.
right. because we all know that the underfunded, understaffed registrar of voters never fails to remove everyone from the voting rolls when they die, move away, etc. without telling them about it.
In Indianapolis this year, the registar tried mailing out postcards to try to clean out the stale and inaccurate voter registry.
As a result various predictable interest groups rolled all over on the ground pissing all over themselves in fury.
Benefit of this is, whenever anyone leaves DNA at a crime, you know who they are.
In other words, all you need to do is define something as a crime, and load the citizens up in their respective wire cages.
There is NO SUCH THING as a 'national popular vote.'
The only way to come up with a national 'total' is for journalists to run around the country adding up numbers where they are valid and constitutional, which is at the State level.
And since the choices posed to the voters at the state level vary significantly (i.e. all those states where the Democrats were able to crush third-party candidates like Nader), the numbers can't be directly added up.
We live in a democratic republic. People who don't understand the Constitution should cease blathering on until they've educated themselves of this fact.
PDF files can be hyperlinked, tables of content can be generated for them, etc. They can be annotated by people in collaborative groups.
.
I use Acrobat to scan paper documents directly into PDF format. My sheetfed scanner will do doubleside scans.
A 'print filter' is a pathetic comparison. I guess, however, if that's the only tool you have for generating PDF. .
There isn't any tool at a realistic price range that compares to Cool Edit. My point really wasn't to raise these examples as 'absolute' claims, but rather to show a few examples where app developers went deep into the task and developed Windows Apps to meet a need. Linux is quite weak in the area of Multimedia authoring apps.
Microsoft licenses do in fact generate serious legal, financial, and IT issues for many groups.
And that's just fine. The GPL generates serious legal, financian, and IT issues as well. And it should generate issues, or it's a toothless and worthless waste of time.
But I know. Microsoft was found to be a Monopoly by a particularly wrathful judge (which generated a lot of head shaking from others in the court system), so they're pinned down for all of eternity and ordinary rules don't apply to them.
For anything more serious than "I can't print" (hyperbole, but not all that much), I just reinstall XP.
Sorry. You don't sound like a very qualified support person. There are 'boardswapping drones' in hardware repair, and have been since the minicomputer era. There are parts swappers at auto shops.
I won't say 'beneath contempt' because perhaps you just haven't had enough training.
the same hardware with Linux and all the extras you will likely ever want, or for an extra $150 you can have bare-bones Windows
The hitch, though, is that everything the consumer wants isn't available on Linux.
Until there is a seamless 'Install Shield' type mechanism, and racks of games and other software that people can buy and install on their Linux system, they won't want a Linux system.
I have personally gone for over a year at a time on only-Linux system at home, starting back in 1994. I used Linux-only for most of the year 1998. Shit, I've put 'comments' on snail-mail offers from Microsoft and shipped 'em back at them.
Linux doesn't cut it, for a lot of uses that a lot of people find important. Until there's a full WYSIWYG PDF editor like Adobe Acrobat (no, 'print to PDF' and 'PDF viewer' doesn't do it), until there's a powerful Sound editor like Cool Edit, it won't suffice for me. And those are just two instances.
The $150 bare-bones Windows at least can be realistically enhanced with stuff people want, in the ways they're accustomed to getting them. Come back when Linux is close to being done.
Yggdrasil was the first 'distro' packaged to be installed off a CD-ROM, but it was NOT the first distro. Plus, I have the first Infomagic 'UNIX' cdrom **, which had SLS on it (in additional to NetBSD and 386BSD) which is a slightly older pressed-CD product than that first white-cover-green-ink Yggdrasil release (which most people who carry on about Yggdrasil never saw in any event)
(** Predecessor of the big multi-CD 'Linux Resource' sets that Infomagic sporatically published so 'the rest of us' without the bandwidth could get our Linux fix)
Ooooh. But now you're angry, eh?
Or are you being 'nuanced and ironic'?
heh
How does it feel to be giving aid and comfort to the enemy?
You want to ask a real expert quesitons like this.
Dukakis, or whatever the loser's name is this time around, could have answered that question in 1972.
Unfortunately he isn't asked that one often enough.
I just wish Bin Laden had explicitly endorsed Ted Kennedy's fistpuppet instead of beating around the bush on the topic. It would be good therapy for the American public to have somebody to crush the juice out of, and Bin Laden himself is still, for a while, out of reach.
Who said anything about 'recycling'? You detract from the point I was making
But anyways, you're right. 'Recycling' just filters, sorts, and concentrates dangerous toxins into concentrated piles. The people 300 years from now who prosper by strip mining old landfills and are reaping huge amounts of valuable resources by processing it will curse the recyclers and the 'brownfields' of highly concentrated waste created by clueless fuck 'do-gooders' before humanity had the proper means to handle the waste properly.
How many BSD ISOs do you need? You download one, install it, then fetch updates and what-not.
You're one of those ISO collectors who is the freenix communities (the portion who pay for FTP site bandwidth, anyways) worst enemies, it seems. 'Whoah, they came out with NetBSD-1.6.7, all I have is 1.6.6. I better download the whole damn thing for all architectures again, in case I ever get a VAX between now and the time when 1.6.8 comes out and I have to download it all again.'
IOW- lame excuse for why you 'need' all that P2P traffic, dude.
Actually, another five years and there will be a solid but tiny subculture of angry nerds who have no idea what the rest of their culture enjoys. A small pack of angry denizens of their parent's basement, wearing tattered 'Boycott the RIAA' t-shirts that nobody else knows what the hell mean, on those rare occasions when they venture out.
I mean, come on.
Similarly, people will pay 50 cents, up to sometimes even several dollars, for a 'fresh' newspaper off the news-stand.
And yet, the same people bundle big sheaths of newsprint up and then pay someone to haul it away.
What's up with that? Didn't the pages of paper cost the same, no matter what the value of the content printed on them??
An analogy for what you're bemoaning the lack of can be illustrated by a football game.
A football game with 'symmetrical bandwidth' is one in which each person in the crowd has a bullhorn of equal output power. There's a reason not everybody at the game is allowed to blast their thoughts out to everyone else at full volume. Similarly, 'symmetrical traffic' on the 'net is a bullshit concept that has no relevance to how people use the net.
I'm sorry, but 'non-symmetrical bandwidth' is a non-problem. People who have large volumes of their own content (as opposed to people shoving around the same bytes to each other endlessly in a pathetic contest to see who can gather the most 'bulk' in content) can pay for 'send' bandwidth.
The economic model for DSL and other 'asymmetrical' connections is real. But carry on pretending it's a conspiracy if it amuses you to do so.
(and yes, moderator-fucks. tag this a 'troll' because it both confuses and angers you)
I've never understood why anybody would buy the soundtrack to a movie (unless, perhaps its a Musical with all original music) in the first place.
It's always seemed to me like 'Joe film-scum's favorite tracks all clustered into one mass,' and Joe film-scum is just your typical Hollywood moron.
Traffic has never been symmetric. The whole concept of communications implies that information travels to where it is needed/wanted. There's no balance or symmetry implied, and none should be assumed.
.
This tricky 'bandwidth' term you're throwing around. .
Are you sure you're not just trying to be clever with words?
I was just clarifying and extending the discussion. Little of that kind of software exists for the Mac, which is largely a 'peronal Desktop' machine. Not a scientific/technical machine.
Why the name calling?