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Microsoft Just Wants a Little Look
waynegoode writes "Do you want to let Microsoft check if your copy of Windows is legit? How about if they promise it's anonymous? How about if they give you some free stuff? Recently Microsoft launched their Genuine Advantage Program to let you (and Microsoft) check if your OS is legal. They hoped for 20,000 responses but received 800,000 without offering anything but piece of mind. Now they are throwing in a bunch of free and discounted stuff including Photo Story 3 and the Holiday Fun Pack to try to get more volunteers. Read more at news.com and Microsoft Watch."
If I pirated windows, why wouldn't I pirate this too?
If anything, give away a tshirt or a hat or some other convention junk.
Pain lasts, kid. Its how you know you're alive. Sometimes I think this growing up thing is just pain management-TheMaxx
Perhaps the RIAA should take some pointers from these guys? hehee
Ewww... does it at least come in a plastic baggie?
I've had this sig for three days.
Thay can check out my Debian!
Analogies don't equal equalities, they are merely somewhat analogous.
...then will come harassment and demands to look and that will just drive people away from Windows towards Linux.
Bullying people into buying a $15 CD might work, but $200 is a lot more, esp. when there are alternatives.
Seek the truth
Behold the truth
Reveal the truth
That is the law and the whole of the law
no thanks - i'll stick to open-source goodness.
Windows Update refuses to work if you're using a pirated Windows XP CD Key, so why would giving you free stuff be that big of a controvercy? It's not like they're telling you that you can't visit their site unless you do this.
Anyone here just download a corporate ISO of winxp with SP2, just because they dont want to install all the patches from scratch.
I guess you could slipstream everything, but damn thats a few hours work.
Not saying to pirate software, you already own a legit copy of WinXP Pro, you just want to have the SP2 already on the install cd.
Hell, does Microsoft even sell an updated version with all patches?
Pay 200 bux for an OS, they could at least offer an upgrade cd to make life easier...
Everyday I feel guilty about purchasing not 1, but 2 legitimate copies of WindowsXP @ retail price.
Simple reason too... My copy of Windows is not legit.
But it would probably be rather easy for M$ to keep a nice tidy database of who has "legit" windows vs. those who don't. Also, this could, with trivial modification, be used to detect duplicate product activation keys....might it be something along the lines of a means to find these keys for a future crackdown?
The article states that there is "no 'stick' as yet", and perhaps there never will be any official action taken against those with pirated copies who foolishly enough decide to tell Microsoft about it. [ After all, if they suddenly started sending out flying attack squads of lawyers, that would make for some bad press. ] However, how long will it be before such a check is integrated into the OS, and checked every time the computer goes online? It certainly wouldn't be that difficult to program in such a "feature', with the added bonus of locking down the system should the results not be acceptable.....
At any rate, it makes me sort of pity all those poor windows users who are going to get screwed over...and makes me very glad that I don't use windows.
In Xanadu did Kubla Khan
A stately pleasure dome decree
From their site:
Using genuine Microsoft software ensures that you get world-class reliability, security, and support...
I don't think I need to comment on the reliability and security issue around here. But I have a strange feeling if Microsoft really gave
"world-class" support, half of Slashdot's readers would be out of jobs. I think they need to come up with a more realistic explanation of why it's worth spending 300 dollars for Windows.
Has anyone noticed the photo for the Microsoft List Builder on the page? That woman must have the biggest set of gnashers ever! I find it kind of scary ;)
RebateFX.com - Spread rebates for Forex traders
MS doesnt really need ur permission to find if your copy is legal or not.it could have alraedy built that into winXP,98,2k.And no one can verify it.
And whats the point in asking for people to volunteer?ONly those who have legal copies will do so.Those who dont will stay away.So all those who take part will be having valid copies.
No one sane enough will believe MS when they say they wont do anything to you if ur copy is illegal.The illegal user just doesnt have to use it.
I believe, the first thing Longhorn does when it is connected to internet will be to check with MS ,whether the copy is legal.Or get caught up when the user hits Microsoft.com
And they can say dont require your permission for it...Probably screw up the PC if itsnt legal copy.A suit over that will probably lose for it is their product illegally used.
Why does yahoo do this
that is all.
C'mon kids, check and see if your windows copy is legitimate. I've got candy...
Click here for a free picture of an iPod!
..."without offering anything but piece of mind."
Piece of who's mind...?
Why would somebody willingly cooperate with Microsoft?
Anybody here one of those 800,000 fools that seems to trust MS?
Because they have such a lengthy record of stabbing customers and especially business partners in the back, I honestly see no reason to trust anything they say.
It's not so much for Joe user with his activation crack. I have a feeling this is more-or-less sniffing out people who use the Corp. Edition that is activation-free and thereby never needs to be registered, etc. and can run Windows Update to begin with (I've not yet found a copy of Home or Pro that can get on Windows Update "safely").
They may not shut down your copy but you can bet they'll look into the company that bought that strand of registration keys that you just so happen to be piggy-backing on.
While you might have to trust that they're not going to try to hunt you down, it really does seem at this point that they are simply seeking to inform unsuspecting users that they may have received an illegit copy of Windows from a retailer. Most people who are intentionally pirating, aren't going to try to validate it. The focus of this campaign isn't try to catch Joe-Bob that loaned his copy to his sister, it's trying to get consumers who bought a copy of Windows at the corner PC store to go back and demand a legit copy.
I was going to run it, but it doesn't work under Mozilla. Oh well.
What?
(posted as AC to protect my identity)
I have bought enough Dell's to have windows XP CDs out the ying-yang, but I hate having to go through the activation process each time I format a PC. I own licenses for each computer, all I want is a clean windows installation with no Dell OEM crap. So this is what I did:
1) Downloaded the Devil's 0wn corp version of windows.
2) Slipstreamed SP2 into the install CD.
3) Downloaded a keygen for SP2.
4) Installed Windows with serial from keygen.
I just downloaded Microsoft's authentication tool, and it said my copy was valid. I can download updates, their crappy photo software, and everything else. Im sure Microsoft is throwing millions of dollars into R&D to create this elaborate activation and serial number system, and yet their own tool says my obviously pirated copy is valid. Way to go.
This is voluntary right?
Why would the "pirates" then volunteer for it?
Won't they get 100% "genuine" participation?
As for the "in the dark" "pirates", I'd wager the number is quite small, errm why bother?
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Conclusion: Piracy doesn't exist for Windows.
Hey, if BSA can do statistics, so can we.
To help pay the wages for the new MS campus in India??
/me ducks
Let me just get adjusted here...
(zip)
(Drops pants/drawers, bends over)
Go ahead. Tell me... IS it genuine?
Now, where's my free software?
I'm not worried about my copy of XP being "pirated" since I got it at the Microsoft company store, but to see Joe User taken in by this invasive policy from yet another megacorp who thinks they have some right to a chunck of my paycheck they haven't earned just makes my hackles rise.
I've been a Gnome and Enlightenment fan for a while, but I hear that KDE is ready for prime time. Guess I'll take a look at it. I sure hope Linux for the desktop can start making some inroads into Microsoft's market share so Joe User can keep his current hardware and have a choice in OS, rather than wait for his next big purchase to go get a Mac.
"Like fire and fusion, government is a dangerous servant and a terrible master."~RAH
As i could see there are only two items being offered that are free. The rest is ... just a clever(?) way to sell more stuff and generate more profit... Just another marketing ploy.
get world-class reliability, security, and support...
;-)
No, they mean that Windows is about as reliable, secure and supportive as the world at large is today.
His Slackware turned out to be a legitimate copy of Windows. Figure that. The number could very well consist of page loadings or such, instead of actual verifications. Some people actually tried it out for fun. I guess I should give it a try from few OSes as well.
Posted anonymously to protect my job.
Microsoft isn't going after the end users with this program. They honestly don't care whether you personally bought and paid for Windows, because face it, no one goes to Best Buy and plunks down $100 - $300 for an operating system. The goal of this program is to show the value to users of having a genuine copy of Windows. Create "mindshare" if you will, that genuine Windows has greater value than your borrowed/downloaded/pirated copy. This will hopefully, in turn, encourage users to demand genuine Windows when they buy a PC. Again, face it, when people buy a new PC, they buy Windows. Most never upgrade after that. By creating users who ask for genuine Windows when they buy a PC, Microsoft can indirectly assert pressure on small OEM's and System Builders, where the largest amount of counterfeit Windows is sold to unsuspecting users. Even Microsoft realizes it's unfair to punish users who honestly believe their copy of Windows is legit.
You'll notice that those who fail validation are asked to provide (largely generic) information regarding their PC and their purchase. They get a 'courtesy key' in most cases that allows them access to the content (creating the image of a kinder, more benevolent Microsoft). It also goes straight into a reporting database where Microsoft can track trends like which resellers are selling large amounts of counterfeit copies of Windows.
Regardless of your software ideals, stealing software is wrong, and it's certainly within Microsoft's rights to restrict premium content to genuinely licensed copies of Windows. Validation isn't locking any genuinely licensed users out of any content; in fact, a large percentage of those people with counterfeit licenses will still be able to access downloads. Microsoft has also committed to allowing all counterfeit licenses to access critical security updates via Automatic Updates, probably so they don't get lambasted in the press for "denying users security fixes."
I'll try to answer any further questions that get posted as a reply to this post.
This isn't aimed at those who know they aren't legit. This is targeted to those who purchase a PC from some 3rd rate shop and want to check that the cd they were given is authentic.
our beloved hackers will do, is stopping(cracking) the OS, from ever contacting MS.
With a nice, big warning from them.
In a way, I do feel sorry for MS, as powerful they are, the "guerillas" aren't chump/chumpettes either.
___________
I have a question though, why is this under YRO?
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I've seen several comments wondering why a person who knows they have a pirated copy do this. This isn't for the "casual pirate". This is for people who saw a deal on the Web and got XP Pro for $50 and installed it. They'll "phone in" and Microsoft will tell them their copy is pirated, then ask where they got it. Voila! Pirate shop busted. That is what this is all about.
"Like fire and fusion, government is a dangerous servant and a terrible master."~RAH
but there ARE some people out there still running FCKGW-* keys who are completely clueless as to the legality.
... wait ... FCKGW-*. I imagine it's a common scenario, and most of these people WILL drop the $100 for a legal copy upon finding out they got screwed.
I worked for a computer store, and we had at least 4 scenarios in 6 months where one of our customer bought Office/Windows XP off ebay, then we try to upgrade to SP1 to fix a problem and
Jay | http://oldos.org
...ok, if I have a pirated version, I'll do it to get FREE STUFF. Yes! I will get my ass thrown in jail for FREE STUFF. Yes! Please!
The friendliest digital photography forums on the net!
piss on you too!
When men used to be men
fuck you!!!
aren't you rich enough off corporate compliance???
you gave 53B away to your corporate drones...
I have an idea, let's go after the little guy...
Someone mentioned that this might be a way of hunting down errant, illegal copies of non-product activation corporate editions of MS Windows products. I would take that a step further and venture to say that this will be the next step in "product" activation. Instead of requiring the hassle of the product activation phone call/activation code entry for corporate clients, they will, instead, find ways to monitor corporate clients for errant product IDs floating around outside the bounds of a corporate purchasers' license terms.
I would suspect that Microsoft could easily come up with some way to monitor an individual corporate license being used during product updates. Maybe they keep a head count of how many licensed copies are out there under a particular company's account. When 2041 licenses are detected for a corporate account of only 1000 licenses, Microsoft will skip going after the pirates and basically take the issue to the company in terms of fines and/or a nice big Microsoft bill.
Could they do it with IPs? Make each company register a domain and/or IP range for corporate clients? Probably not, given that corporate clients could be working mobilely and the prospect of spoofing. But perhaps they could account for that and start issuing a set # of desktop licenses (that don't move) and a set # of laptop/mobile licenses that can move off the network. A little harder to say "you gave out more product IDs/licenses than allowed," but still a means of tracking licenses outside a set number of mobile clients. There would most likely be a threshold of, say, 20% more than the license limit before the company got called on it.
I could see this as Microsoft's wakeup call to its corporate customers. Control your licenses, or you will be charged/fined accordingly. It might hurt business for Microsoft and cause some changeover to other systems, but for the most part, businesses are going to have to do business with software that meets their needs. And as long as Microsoft is the dominant player in the corporate world for desktop computing, businesses will have to make the effort to meet their licensing demands.
IronChefMorimoto
someone has been listening to too much iron maiden
I think its funny that any *NIX os has millions of people around the globe all working for FREE! But outside their organization does anyone help them at all?
They can't even care about actual legitimacy it would just cost them numbers.
Do you mean the real world or the world inside of Bush's fantasy bubble? :-)
If they are offering free copies that are *nix compatible I am all for it.
Sorry about the writing. Robot fingers, you know? Cliff Steele in DOOM PATROL #23
Yes, as if. If it's anonymous then how can you receive your "free"/"dicounted" software?
And even if it was legit...My business is my business. I don't like people looking over my shoulder.
You know, this really makes me wonder.
The whole point of making users "activate" a new installation of Windows is to discourage the use or distribution of pirated copies. It didn't really work. The honest people stayed honest, but were inconvenienced. And the pirates kept pirating.
I might guess that activation is probably something of an inconvenience to MS as well. It didn't work as well as they had hoped, and in fact they had to keep track of illegitimate or "leaked" product keys in addition to the good ones. And it still hasn't stopped piracy.
So now MS is throwing "carrots" out to people in an effort to weed out illegal copies of Windows. They haven't said just what they're going to do with the data they've collected, or how they'll expect users to deal with it. More work for them, and potential pain for those that thought they had purchased legal copies of Windows, but didn't.
I don't know if I have a point... but this all just looks bad to me, and does seem to make product activation more and more of a hassle for everybody all around. It just seems to escalate, and I wonder if this is a case of diminishing returns. Maybe it gives MS some benefit (perhaps the marketing people get good data out of it somehow), but discouraging piracy doesn't seem to be one of them, from what I can see.
sigh
I guess this is somewhat of a prime example as to how security fails when it comes to the end user..
:-P) could log in and assist the user, but why not give any sort of warning yourselves. There's always the possibility that one asshole may go berzerk and abuse the software they have been provided to basically hijack ones system.
:-P
To have M$ estimate, hope rather, that 20,000 unforunate, uneducated users would sign up for this bogus crap.. then actually find out that 800,000 people have decided to give this a try, is a sad sad thing to see..
The problem is, people are unaware/uneducated about potential security threats. Thanks to M$ devious and sly marketing tactics though, the word FREE captures almost any saps attention..
So yes, we can blame the users for being idiots and having M$ spy on them. It's kind of hypocritical though how M$, Symantec, Dell and so forth always urge users to protect their computers from any sort of security threats or any harmful 3rd party software, spyware, malicious sites, etc.. yet they themselves are spying on their own customers.
Sure Dell, thanks for putting matcli/MotiveAssistant on my computer. I appreciate your concern for having some program constantly run in the background to which you claim is solely there for the purpose for when the user has any sort of technical issues and a rep (probably from India, but that's another story
In short, if we're going to try to make this crazy thing we call the Internet "secure", let's not abuse that power and assume that YOU are justified to install a program that gives a remote user access to ones system. Here's a simple solution. When you're helping them out, have them run the program and terminate it at the completion of the session.
Sheesh.. sorry for the rant
Genuine Microsoft software offers you greater reliability
Does it? A pirated copy of Windows still has exactly the same code as a genuine one. How can MS say that genuine software is more reliable?
Are they giving away Microsoft Bob along with those "Hot new holiday visualizations for Media Player?"
I have a better idea.
How about I don't run Windows at all. Ever.
Intolerance for ambiguity is the mark of the authoritarian personality.
...given that software is free?
Read my post further up, i was wondering the real motivation for this.
Regardless of your software ideals, stealing software is wrong
hHere in my country, a 'developing" nation I'd wager the piracy rate(for MS) is at 70-80%. Roll back 5 years ago,, it'd be near 100%.
Piracy has actually helped MS entrech its position. Nowadays, the instances of non MS OS or office(in the office) software is still near 0%.. All "pirates" who uses MS in the past(i.e Univ) is now working, and they wouldn't be interested in learning about new "tools"
I'd wager MS would not view 'stealing' that led them to a dominant position is wrong.
IMHO all developing or poor nation starts with 100% piracy rate, as they gradually become more prosperous the rate will go down. The softwares most pirated will benefit the most from this growth.
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I'm running a pirate copy of Windows XP SP2 on my scratch partition. I'm a Fedora guy that's interested in distros and operating systems, and have XP installed on my scratch partition right now. I used a pirate copy for the install as the one I was forced to purchase from Dell will destroy my main OS partition on my hard disk.
.hta you run instead (pity there's no XUL version, but hey...).
Interesting facts:
1. It works in Firefox. If the ActiveX control doesn't download, they give you a
2. They don't show the results.
Contrary to what another poster said, Windows Update seems to work fine with a pirate copy of XP, at least this one.
hmm.
i'm sure the brilliant minds at microsoft have devised/gleemed all sorts of angles on how this information might help them.
somehow, i doubt 3rd rate shops even rank in the top 10.
The only thing they can give me is a complete refund of the time I've wasted downloading patches and what not to fix their crappy code.
ok
exactly. However much MS would like to run down every joe schmoe with a pirated copy of windows (3.11 through 2003 server) they are more likely to be going after companies that sell computers with non-legit copies of winXP.
I wonder how many stores are selling computers with xp corp. and generated keys just so they can undercut the competition or make an extra buck?
As for the free software.. no one was going to buy it anyhow, so why not give it out as a perk? I think my parents might be getting some legitimate crappy photo software this week, for free.
"If you are going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
Is it in M$'s own interests to allow people to pirate windows? afaik, they make most of their money selling windows to companies.
If heaps of home-users pirate microsoft products, and become accustomed to them, this will encourage companies to use microsoft products.
Can someone more knowledgable on this matter explain why this is/isn't the case? (And yes, I can see the parallels with the music industry, but this is about microsoft, not them)
printf("Goodbye cruel world!\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b");
ok..!
Why is Microsoft selling pieces of mind? Don't they know you can't sell brain tissue to the general public? I mean...I know Windows sells to a lot of corporate zombies, but I'm pretty sure that's just a figure of speech. Windows wouldn't be selling brains just to placate the unholy brain-lust of it's undead market...would it?
I'm scared now. Somebody hold me.
Due to a hard drive failure and a couple times of general xp wonkiness, i've re-installed my legitimate copy of xp enough times that I couldn't activate my latest install unless I called them on the phone.
Nope, not gonna happen.
So I broke out my 8-in-1 CD a friend burned for me and installed a corporate license of xp.
Nice job, ms.
Sometimes, you have to reinstall. With an OEM disc, it is usually a 'format, image, oops forgot a file/driver/document? oh well.
Frankly, the BS versions that are distributed with PCs are crap. My wife and I got a new Compaq awhile back that came with a OEM Windows disk that didn't have the correct drivers. I called and sat on hold.
Finally I said fuck it, and installed the PIRATED FULL VERSION.
Didn't have a problem after that.
The MS verifying deal is great! More hoops for people to jump through. More excuses to just 'check and see'.
When I install Windows (on my own machines), I do not update it at all. I lock it down with just the apps I need, zonealarm, spybot, firebird, and use webmail.
Works fine, and is more stable than the ones I have to update at work.
Last year, I bought a mac, and it is the best computer decision I've made.
Posted anonymously, because I'm fucking Bill Gates godawful wife.
The fewer who "pirate," the more who will actually realize their disgruntlement with Microsoft and Windows, the more who will manage this in a constructive way (such as switching to Linux, etc...).
The asian gal near the title is part of the offer right?
I am gonna give this survey a ride.
I was not alluding MS is interested in public morality.
However:Piracy---->Dominant Position--->profit.
The government recently intensifies the effort for open source,hence XP starter pack.And I have to disagree, the crippled XP will not have any significant buyers.
The pirates will still use pirated XP, the price point for MS XP is acceptable for "genuine" users and small business would use originals(BSA and all).
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I once burned 50 XP Pro CD's, generated them unique corporate version serial numbers, took the cd's in my coat to Best Buy and dropped them all over the floor right where they sell software! Beat that, grandma! Boo-yah!
Interesting either way though.
Last, "they hoped for more" is crap. They *expected* a ton more, and this line is spin. Less than 10% adoption rate by your own customer base is pathetic.
Just my US$0.02 and I could be wrong.
Too dumb to wait and see if the install worked before entering in the key?
That is what I am reading.
Mega Bite might be more appropriate :o
I had an idea for a fun virus a while back. This one doesn't do any harm at all. The only thing it does is run a keygen for a while, and replace the current windows key with the first valid key it manages to generate before uninstalling itself as neatly and cleanly as possible. Most Windows users would never even notice..
455fe10422ca29c4933f95052b792ab2
Since I am an extremely savvy and smart customer I shall certainly enroll in this program.
Just imagine how nice the Holiday Fun Pack will look at my recently purchased time share appartment in Cabo San Lucas.
ich bin der musikant
mit taschenrechner in der hand
kraftwerk
How is it evil to want to find people selling illegally copied software as legit? Look, if I pay for something, I expect it to be legit, as in I expect it to be what I wanted, made by the company, not stolen, etc. If I go and and buy something from a store, I expect that it's not stolen good. Likewise, if I buy software, I expect it's a legit copy, not an illegal one.
Look, you can argue that people should be allowed to make copies of software you have and distribute them. That is a defensible alternate view of copyright. However to sell software as legit when it's not, that's just fraud. We are talking about bussinesses lying to consumers to make extra money.
goddammit, why can't you /. people spell?
Ohhhhhhhhh yeah!
That was intentional! MS is offering a PIECE of (their) mind to users. Users are expected to insert it into their own minds; thus lobotomizing themselves.
cpghost at Cordula's Web.
you mean pay for the wages of the ENTIRE india campus? $300 should cover it for a good month or so...
I tried it like 1000 times ! Of course on the company computer. Turn on Active X ? WTF ?
Needless to say it failed like 1000 times.
Warez without Active HoleZ is more secure.
If you pirate Windows, you're helping Microsoft dominate the desktop market.
If you need software, you should purchase it. To support proprietary solutions with their domination, will only come back to haunt us. This is stupid and egoistical short-term thinking.
Scared to talk to someone over the phone? I activated XP too many times and had to call. They asked if I had XP installed on more than one computer. I said no and they gave me the activation key. I've since had to activate several more times, but haven't had to call back in yet.
By pirating Windows, you're supporting Microsoft domination on the desktop.
Justify your actions all you like, but in the end you're just helping Bill Gates while he's laughing all the way to the bank.
Probably,Not even FBI would have known such things.
Why does yahoo do this
Yes, all Microsoft wants is a "Piece" of everyone's mind! The great cerebellum will be completed soon!
1.Check for pirated software 2.Offer cheaper software 3.Go to 1 4.Profit! Damn my programming is bad.
I paid for my copy of Windows, as in ordered it and paid cash, not as in got it with my PC. If it isn't legit, then I've been ripped off at least as much as they have, and I'd really like to know, so I can take appropriate action against the people I bought it from (warn them they have counterfeit software, stop doing business with them, whatever).
How about if they promise it's anonymous?
Honestly, why would I care either way? They already have my name, address, email address, etc from when I ordered some trial CDs and downloaded some trial software. So far, the only thing I've had from them that I haven't specifically requested is a trial copy of a new version of one of the apps I trialled. Apart from that, nothing - no news letters, no surveys, no "you might also like this tenuously related software", nothing.
You people really have to stop being so paranoid. MS may be big enough to do to its competitors what most businesses can only dream of doing, but they treat their customers pretty well in my experience.
It's official. Most of you are morons.
Doesnt a software have a particular key assigned to it?[the one that was given legally by the manfr ]
Wouldnt the manufacturer made the software such that it wouldnt accepr any other ket except the one assigned?
Like,how is it that ,a software key can accept more than one key? [ the ones generated by keygen]
Or the way it works is on the lines of crack?
Why does yahoo do this
out of curiosity after reading slashdot, I thought I'd give it a go:
"Unfortunately we are unable to automatically validate your Windows installation. It appears that you are using an operating system that is not currently supported by the Windows Genuine Advantage validation process. We hope that you'll return later to retry the validation process so that you may enjoy the full benefits of genuine Microsoft software.
"
Guess what? Windows ME is on the computer I tested with!
ohh had you been caught littering in best buy with thier cameras all over, cops have to take the copyright infrigment into consideration, microsoft is now your daddy biatch.
Give credit where credit is due. Things DO get patched, particularly if a nasty bug is discovered. Shouting "OMG LOL WINDOZE SI TEH SUK ROFL" may get you karma, but thats all.
Here's some free clue for you: "support" doesn't mean they'll come administer your servers for free, or write your programs for you. Which is what would put people out of job.
It means you can call when you have a problem.
And "world class" is a very relative term. Support from most companies is a sick joke nowadays. Support people are something like taxes: you pay them because you have to, but you don't want to pay a cent more than you absolutely have to. So the ones hired are the cheapest monkeys who can read a bulleted list. Occasionally even the right bulleted list, but no biggie if they read the grocery list instead.
So it's not even hard for MS to actually be in the top tier. You know, the thing about the one-eyed man among the blind.
E.g., having spent the last 2.5 years dealing with WebSphere, which is a buggy unfinished sick joke if you actually use EJBs. And reporting the bugs to IBM. Now IBM's WebSphere support is enough to drive one neurotic, to drinking, or both. And we're not talking support to end-(lusers) but to a big corporate client.
It's a feat just getting past the mindless check-list reading drones. They don't even read what we send them. The first _weeks_ are spent just with them sending us canned "solutions" off their check lists, that don't even match what we wrote in the bug description. That idiotic.
And once you got past those, it's like dealing with a corporate sized Wally (from the Dilbert comics.) It's an endless delay tactic. Including, but not limited to, asking if they can close the bug report just because they want to go on vacation. (No, I'm not making this up. It's too sad to make up, folks.) Or sending us a Jar file as a "fix" that didn't solve the problem, or one even broke WebSphere completely. Or once, after such a "fix" didn't solve the problem, they sent us the exact same file again, as the new "fix".
Or to get you an idea of software quality: they never run the tests we send them to reproduce the problem, and obviously don't have any test cases of their own.
An annoyed coleague finally actually asked them what test cases they used to prove they fixed the problem, 'cause their fix did nothing for us. The answer? A longer version of "no, we didn't actually test it, we didn't even reproduce the problem, but we're confident that we've fixed it. And we thatk you for testing it for us." (Again, I'm not even making it up. They thank us for acting as testers for them.)
Or here's one actual support case that didn't involve a bug: Another team needed to import a SSL certifficate to get IBM's WebSphere Portal Server to talk to another server. So they ask IBM. After getting nowhere with the phone support, they actually pay a big heap of money to get an IBM "consultant" to come show them.
Again, not some underpaid, overworked telephone support slave. A consultant. IBM consultants cost a small fortune.
So the consultant messed around with the server for a _week_, and then said something to the effect of "uhh... I have no bloody idea. Try searching for key store files in all directories and importing your certificate in all of them. It's got to be one of those. I have no idea which, though."
Sad.
So, well, again, it's not even hard for MS to be better than such clowns. It may not be the ideal support by the client's standards, but it's waay better than the sick joke you get as support from some other companies.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
Chump is right, but here's a good reason why: Rather than pay full retail for XP, you could have bought an OEM copy. Perfectly legal and fully supported. Some mail order houses make you buy iy with a system, or at least with a CPU or hard drive, but some will sell it with any hardware (even a 95 cent cat-5 patch cable). And heck, even if you buy it with a low end cpu or small hard drive, your total cost is still less than the retail cost of XP.
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
They are having problems explaining why its worth spending $30, thats why there is a piracy problem and appears to be no problem on their web page.
If you pay $10, you known damn well its not legit. Right now, few people will spend $100 on a copy that "might be" legit, and certainly not because of bogus claims of "support". Everyone knows MS support is a figment of their imagination, and you get more support for 10 year old shareware. MS suppport just put you on hold till you can't stand the phone bill, and if you do hang on cos someone else pays the phone bill, they tell you to reformat your hard disk and reinstall windows!
You dont need to be an MSCE to know that advice is not worth £30, let alone $300. Joe public is more likely to petrol-bomb MS than pay them money after finding out all his work has vanished as a result of MS's "support".
MS service is not significantly better than the average spammer, and that is why they get about the same amount of respect.
This is another 'brilliant' move on their part...
They get to sell people a load of crap: half price unoriginal software that they'll still be making a a profit on, that people think is a good deal for them; or services at reduced cost that require you to pay for every month.
Its a normal capitalist technique - make contact with the consumer and you'll invariably sell them something.
The sort of people that will buy this just want to be sold something, anything.
And I think, more importantly, they're engendering a culture where-by people expect to have to validate their software with the manufcaturer to test its for real. before you know it they'll have people saying 'what, you expect me to download that dirty Free Software that never even asks me to validate it with the manufacturer? you think I'm a fool? there could be ANYTHING bundled up in that!'
Never mind that Microsoft's technique is probably far less secure than the SHA1 verification offered by the Free Software, bcos (currently atleast) that method is a bit too tricky with most distros (that I've seen) and with Free Software on Windows
Where's me bucceneers? That's right, they're on me buccen head.
I think she's kind of cute.
I have a legit copy of Windows XP that I got from school, didn't have a choice, we had to pay for it, was included with our tuition "technology costs". I don't have it installed, Suse works better for me. Can I call up Microsoft and read them my cd key and get free stuff, or do I have to have me legit copy of windows actually installed. Not that I particularly want any of the stuff they are giving away, but, you know, if it's free, might as well take advantage if I can.
Famous Last Words: "hmm...wikipedia says it's edible"
I'm an unashamed penguin-shagger; all my boxes are running some sort of Linux. Just for shits and giggles {a motivating factor only ever underestimated by fools}, I checked the site using Konqueror; but it was having none of it. But I know my Debian is genuine anyway, since it's damn nigh impossible to have such a thing as an infringing copy of Open Source software!
If I want a free photo slideshow, I'll use animate foo.jpg bar.jpg baz.jpg qux.jpg quux.jpg. I know enough about perl and MySQL to write a free mailing list manager {because I already have}. If I want screensavers and wallpaper, I can find plenty. Hell, by the time KDE4 is out, it'll be possible to specify an ftp:// or a http:// URL for a desktop wallpaper.
The only advantage of using genuine Microsoft software is that you don't get hassled off Ballmer's goon squad. But then again, if you use Open Source software, you don't get hassled off Ballmer's goon squad either and you save a fortune on licencing. And when you've got two dozen PCs running literally just a Javascript-capable web browser which interfaces with a server-side script, and a dozen more running just a JS-capable web browser, word processor and spreadsheet, then why pay through the arsehole for Microsoft licences? br>
By the way, I have just one word for anyone who whines that OpenOffice.org doesn't have a replacement for Microsoft Access: PHPMyAdmin. Alright, alright, Apache, PHP and MySQL as well; but they're all on your distro CDs and if the dependencies are done properly, PHPMyAdmin will ask for them.
Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
I just installed an MSDN copy (valid for 10 licenses, although I don't know if they enforce that), and registered it because of that pesky reminder. Now I find out that my partition is too small (remember this is for testing only), and I cannot install SP1 nor SP2.
Basically, I just wasted an activation, but I could get their freebie crap and install them on a machine I don't even dare to run behind a firewall. If I had used a generated key, I wouldn't mind. I could reinstall somewhere else, use a new key and get the SPs. So, many pirated copies are probably safer than my "genuine Microsoft software".
I would be really mean, I could take revenge by leaving it open to the outside world, but I won't. In fact, I'll just take it as a good excuse not to use that OS at all.
$ uname -r
2.6.8.1-12noxp
That's the good genuine stuff everyone should pie rate.
Wel, for starters Microsoft has not the right to verify without the users knowledge. This has to do with protection of private and personal information.
But is it ethical to use a pirated piece of their software? I personaly think not (/.'s are going to
kill me for this i gues).
So if Microsoft uses this program to verify youre software on a volutiery basis, why not. You have a choice you know?
The matter of the fact remains that you are useing their software eighter Legal or Illegal, according to their license.
If you don't like to pay as much for youre OS and software running on youre PC, then use one of the alternatives like FreeBSD, the GNU/Linux's or the free version of BEOS for that matter.
My input, hope it helps this topic.
Cheers,
M
He: "Hi there, can I take a look at your tits and your pussy?"
She: "Get lost, you piece of shit!"
He: "I could tell if you've got legit tits and an authorized pussy!"
She: "I really don't know... could you really?? I mean I've got a sticker on my ass but I always wondered whether it was fake and all..."
He: "What if I also gave you a copy of Porn Story?"
She: "Okay... but not here... let's go someplace else"
I think you are 100% wrong and I am surprised that with all the conspiracy theorists who post here no one has really put together that MSFT is making the move towards updates only for verified, activated copies and, likely, attempting to close the non-activation loophole for volume licensed copies with Longhorn (which is how Windows is pirated today). The "we just want to make sure you didn't ... er ... buy a copy that was pirated" line is crap.
... Ask you Mom to pay $500 for Office and see how she reacts (your Mother might be an OSS super-coder, so please just take the example as an example and don't be a prat). Piracy has always made commercial software pricing palpable & if the commercial software world wants to challenge that thesis, I really believe they do so at their peril.
They have to be careful and I think they know it. If you piss off mixed sites (household or business sites that have a mix or paid-for and pirated copies) you run a serious risk of migration to Linux (as Windows - or any OS - without updates is pretty worthless). Also, you have the old "you have some type of responsibility to your code" argument that was made around SP2. Not that I think MSFT gives a shit about the idea, but as a PR idea it is of value ("MICROSOFT CODE PLAGUES INTERNET DUE TO REFUSAL OF PATCH!").
In reality, I think the recent trend towards copyright-with-an-iron-fist-double-checked will likely backfire. If every Joe User and even every Bob SuperAdmin had to pay full price (even OEM) for every single copy of Windows & Office (and Photoshop and x and y and z) out there, you would see a serious exodus to Linux and related. Fuck security, fuck philosophy
Actually, I have thought for a while that if the OSS community wanted to heighten the Linux desktop penetration numbers, the best way would be to form a "We Hate Dirty Pirates" group and spend six/twelve months devising & implementing (for free) anti-piracy mechanisms for the Win32 platform. Come up with a killer scheme, and you would have done more than anyone for your platform.
Check out this URL: http://www.microsoft.com/genuine/default.mspx?disp laylang=en
Genuine Microsoft software ensures that you get world-class reliability???
You gotta be kidding me? Arguably, they make this claim by comparing their OS to others, who provide far less than world-class reliability...
If not... what the heck are they on?
So, many pirated copies are probably safer than my "genuine Microsoft software"
Probably because of Microsoft's goodwill, and thanks to them. I am sick of these:
24.7.104.198 - - [26/Oct/2004:20:16:40 -0700] "GET /scripts/..%%35c../winnt/system32/cmd.exe?/c+dir HTTP/1.0" 400 226 "-" "-"
MS says...
"How Microsoft is Protecting Customers
Learn about our commitment to protecting customers against software piracy through the three E's: Education, Engineering, and Enforcement."
Enforce the use of MS products.
Engineer customer management and control.
Educate the customer that any diviation from the plan is futile.
Yes, very friendly.
[localuser@localhost localuser]$ uname -a
Linux localhost.localdomain 2.6.10-rc1 #1 Fri Oct 29 12:30:23 EDT 2004 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux
Full compliance with Microsoft licensing terms is good for FOSS. As long as people live with the misconception that Microsoft software is affordable, because they pirate it or don't bother buying the right version, Microsoft's proprietary formats will remain entrenched. Furthermore, people should also take into account the impact on TCO that attempts to comply with vendor restrictions have (I'm sure Microsoft doesn't count that in their TCO studies).
To put it differently, OpenOffice would probably have a big jump in market share if all the pirated or incorrectly licensed versions of MS Office wordlwide were replaced with OpenOffice.
Important Notes:
1. This application is a free product and is not supported by Microsoft PSS. 2. Use of the Microsoft Calculator Plus ("Calculator") is completely voluntary on the part of the end user. The information, calculations and/or conversion estimations generated from use of the Calculator are for informational purposes only and Microsoft makes no warranties, express or implied, with respect to the Calculator or the accuracy of any information, calculations or conversion estimations generated as a result of its usage.
Yep, Microsoft surely supports it's products!
And don't forget the lame-ass relpy that it's the OEM manufacturer that you have to contact for a problem with the MS-OS.
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
I see your email, anandcp@gmail.com, and your ICQ 271647909, are prominently displayed in case Bill wants to serve a rebuttal.
You paid $80 for a piece of software you've been using every day for 6 years now, and are too fucking cheap to buy a newer version? You think $13/year is too much for something you use every fucking day?
This attitude is why games developers and app makers very rarely put effort into making stuff for desktop linux, because you're all fucking cheapskates.
Let's look at a few fun factoids, shall we?
1. AFAIK, XP is the primary version of Windows being sold by MS atm. There might be others for corporate peeps...Server 2003, etc...but I'm talking in terms of home users. ME is still *supported* AFAIK, but from what I read 95 isn't and I don't know about 98...but even if it is, it's not still generating MS money. So from what I can see, XP alone is pretty much where it's at in terms of current home user OS revenue for them.
2. There seems to be a fair amount of evidence that XP is currently being pirated to an insane degree. We know about MS bringing out Starter Ed in Asia to try and combat piracy there, and they had the serial number top 10 etc etc.
3. Although it's true that it is now at that stage of the game where from MS' point of view, pirate XP on someone's machine is still more desirable than legit Linux, (because of mindshare retention) they have been starting to feel (at least compared to what they're used to) a rather nasty profit pinch over the last year or two. Because of this, it's understandable that given where they are now, they're probably more interested in stopping piracy at the moment than they ever have been before...however, they're not likely to be successful IMHO because
4. They've destroyed/damaged consumer trust/credibility to the point where they're not going to be getting it back. Ever. For anyone who's been paying attention, Microsoft's list of crimes is a mile long, including violation of the Sherman Act, raping/destroying various other software companies and acquiring their software through dubious means, and more relevant to this particular topic, suspicion of engaging in various forms of surveillance of Windows users. I'm guessing Gates could quite literally donate his entire fortune to charity at this point and it wouldn't substantially improve most people's opinion of him. The PR crisis is actually Microsoft's biggest problem...Bigger than Linux...bigger than anything else currently challenging it. The plain and simple fact is that people passionately hate the company, in large numbers...or at the very least seriously distrust it...and it is utterly impossible to continue to successfully do business when the majority feel that way towards you.
Gates would do very well at this point to acquaint himself with what Machiavelli wrote about a leader who allows himself to become hated.
Because of this, however, I'm assuming that only the most gullible of casual users for the most part are going to go along with allowing Microsoft to check their copies of Windows...And I also have a feeling Microsoft know that. The line about improving reliability is one of their usual transparent-as-glass lies.
this is not just an inspection of windows. MS is picking up information about who and where you are.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
came up to me in office hours yesterday telling me how he just bought a laptop, but didn't get an OS on it. He figured he would just "borrow" a copy of Windows from a friend and he couldn't get it to install on his laptop for some reason. It kept rebooting and it wouldn't accept the Windows disk. He came to me looking for help, but I didn't help him. Instead, I told him that I wouldn't help him with installing it because I don't like to help people to copy things illegally, and boy did he get pissed and storm away. He deserves it, however since he is a CS major, and although I can understand that people are greedy, lazy fucks who don't want to pay for anything they can get for free, you shouldn't pirate software if you're a CS major. That's just ignorant and makes me hope that he'll flunk out of CS (not that I would or could do it intentionally because of how uniform grades are determined), but just because he doesn't get where the money comes from that he will pay his rent some day when he gets a job. So yeah, MS has a problem, but I can't believe people wouldn't know if their Windows is legal or not. Generally it comes pre-installed by a big company, or they go to a store and buy it in a nice shiny box. Shrug.
Best. Comment. Ever. Enjoy!
All you can be 99% certain of is that there is no more there to mistrust than MS intended to put there.
Also, if this is meant to catch "legitimate" looking pirated copies, they will NOT look like a burned CD but like a pressed CD.
The CD should last as long as MS's system.
Lastly, since the code is hidden and even if not, impossible to build without the correct environment, the code is 99% secure as original.
True, but if you have to go with Windows anyway -- for software compatibility reasons, for example -- then every buck you give them helps their domination even more.
That said, my primary OS is legit. But it happens to be made by Apple...
“Wait for Hurd if you want something real” –Linus
Hmmm, I got windows preinstalled on my laptop but put linux on before booting the thing. It didn't ship with a full install media, just some bizarre 'restore disc' which impedes my resale rights of software under EU law. I wonder how Microsofts 'world class' support will handle getting install media out to me for my legally obtained windows license so that I can exercise my legal right of resale?
MS wants everyone to check if it's verion of Windows is legit. Logically speaking, only people that are allready thinking that theirs is will do such a thing (and return the result to MS).
Now what about the people that discover that their costly Windows-version actually is pirated ?
If MS really wants to go after the "bad" retailers, why don't they offer a replacement to the nuyesr if they can show where they bought it ?
That way the the honest customer who discovers they got whacked does not need to buy the same software twice.
Now that is what I call an incentive (to "take the test" and to "rat" about the results) !
It's prefectly defensible to say that you should be allowed to distribute IP for free without paying the owner. IP, unlike real property, has no marginal cost, no inherant value in a single copy. Thus one could say that the creator is entitled not to a fixed value, but to a percentage of the profits. So if you charge $X, the creator is entitled to a percentage of X. If X is zero, then they are entitled to nothing.
I'm not saying this is a viable model, I'm saying it's a defensable position.
However it's not really defensable to say that it's ok for a bussiness to make copies of software at no cost, then charge consumers for those copies and further pretend that those copies are legal under the current laws. That's just fraud.
Funny how XP, the version of Windows with the toughest restrictions so far, is being more widely copied than any other version has been.
Sad thing is, I still don't think Microsoft will get it.
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
And his sheep respond...
Works with Bama blondes (real and bleached) !
Maybe they want to lambast resellers.
;-)
Suppose you discover that many people who bought a PC in, e.g., an Asian country chose PCs without Windows and _all_of_them_ are using the same Windows product key.
You may reasonably suppose the PC reseller, or someone acting with priviledged information, is installing Windows on that OS-free (or free-OS) PCs.
If they get this information, they could tip BSA to channel its efforts to locate such people and stop them.
DISCLAIMER: Of course, all the above is just fiction. I'm training to become a fiction writer...
Oh, and any mentioned products, services and respective trademarks are not mine, but belong to their owners.
Who's mind are they offering pieces of?
"It means you can call when you have a problem."
And pay for it.
If you think you can call MS any time you want and get free support, then you believe in Santa Claus.
And if you get an OEM copy, you can't call MS at all.
That $300 for Windows gets you...a lighter wallet. If you pirate the damned thing, at least you're $300 richer, and bill is not.
That suits me just fine.
What? Who mentioned Linux? This guy is primarily a Mac user, who has a pirated copy of XP.
Humans generally are cheapskates, it's not a Linux thing.
Microsoft's Product Activation was supposed to eliminate all software sharing and piracy. Anyone with any knowledge of Asia knows that XP didn't put a dent in piracy there. And from the looks of this new campaign, it appears that it didn't put a dent in sharing either.
I can't help but wonder why we were ever scared of Palladium?! Microsoft can't even lock down their own OS, how could they possibly ever lock down an entire computer?!
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
FUCK Gates! FUCK Ballmer! FUCK mICRO$OFT! FUCK the whores that brought these clowns into the world!
...simply isn't what it's purported to be.
go!. If we can invalidate all the keys using distributed methods, then every copy of windows will be pirated and this study/database will be mostly useless.
OpenOffice would probably have a big jump in market share if all the pirated or incorrectly licensed versions of MS Office wordlwide were replaced with OpenOffice
So let me get this straight - you're saying that OpenOffice would have a bigger market share if more people used OpenOffice? Glad we got that cleared up then.
This is targeted to those who purchase a PC from some 3rd rate shop and want to check that the cd they were given is authentic.
My first thought was that it is aimed at people who will do anything for a t-shirt; i.e., those "girls gone wild...just wait til daddy orders a copy of your 5 minutes of fame" types. Sort of a self-selecting sample population, IMO, making any of Microsoft's published statistics worth taking with a grain of salt.
-- "Makes Little Debbie look like a pile of puke!" - Moe Szyslak
I also run a cracked copy of XP Pro. In fact, on quite a few machines. All my copies of XP are legitimately purchased. I just don't want to go through all the activation rubbish every couple of months when I change hardware in the machines they're installed on, and after a few times, having to call up Microsoft UK to explain that yes, this is the 12th time I've activated it, and no, it is only on one machine, but that the hardware in said machine keeps changing.
I do exactly the same thing with games: buy them, then download the no-cd crack. Why? So I don't have to shove the disc into a drive, often in another room, before I'm able to play the thing.
Companies shouldn't assume that everyone who's using dodgy/generated keys didn't legitimately purchase their software...
Yes, it may sound as a stupid idea, but it makes so much sense.
a) Immediate good boys status
b) A significantly improved code review and improvement. Less bugs, better perceived image
c) TotalWorldDomination(TM). The main reasons why people are choosing Linux over windows is the cost and willingness to be in the clear from piracy. MacOS is the one people choose if they feel that windows is that bad (i'm talking about consumers, here)
d) Stabilisation of market share. Windows clients require windows servers.
e) Microsoft Office still is the obvious choice on the desktop. Just expensive.
The only point against, I can see, is that it will gain additional consumer attention to open source in general. But otherwise... it makes so much sense, I am just tempted to think that ballmer&gates&co are really stupid.
The whole point of this is to protect the existing base, it's called due diligence. Pirate copies are free mindshare, they encourage it in "emergent markets". It's where the real money will be and is their true reason for fearing competitors.
As the anonymous MS poster said, it's the manufacturer's and resellers loyalty they're trying to shore up. Once that goes, they're really in trouble. Because then those resellers will not protect them in the new markets.
insecurity asks the wrong question irritation gives the wrong answer
Firefox downloads an .exe file, but when I double-click on it I get nothing. If I try to run it from the command line I get the following error: "cannot execute binary file".
This happens on a Fedora Core 2 box. What's wrong?
No, seriously, I just come here for the articles.
As I previously mentioned here, the whole Genuine Advantage Program is a piece of crap. If you produce a valid VLK key based on my previous post, there is no way for microsoft to realize you are using a legal or a illgal key. I just validated my key and downloaded Photo Story 3! It's really worthless. Just follow my Algorithm.
But I have a strange feeling if Microsoft really gave
"world-class" support, half of Slashdot's readers would be out of jobs.
Hmm... I thought that already was the case... The latter part of course, not the first part.
Nope, you've just reduced the incentive for the software authors to port to another platform.
Phones to low-tech for you?
Don;t trust the person on the other end? Don;t worry, its a machine.
Struggle typing in all those long numbers?
I have rung the MS Phone activation many times. Simple, Quick, and WORKS. Allowing you to run your legal copy legally.
Its a free-phone number.
Why do you say "Not gonna happen"?
b3 4phr41d 0f my 4bov3-4v3r4g3 c0mpu73r kn0wI3dg3!
MadDwarf
Does it run under WINE?
yep, market share is worth a lot more to an OS developer than the retail price.
By pirating Windoze your just having to bow to the empire simply because of apps that are not able to run under Linux yet - if you are forced to bow in such a way, would you rather give them $300 in the process or just do it quetly?
Giving them the $$$ is supporting them - being forced to use their product (if you want to call it that), isn't neccisarily supporting them...
I'd love to help out with writing some of this antipiracy stuff, but i'm a self righteous bastard who wouldn't run windows if I was paid to, besides, I don't wanna have to download a stinking compiler to do it. :-)
I wonder how well microsoft will survive the reality check, when their user base has a huge chunk taken out of it, because they wont give freebe's anymore to the 'pirate scum'?
They won't be taking in that much money from those few scared pirate fools rushing out to buy a legit copy.
Sure makes me glad my O/S is free, works fast and stable, comes with both C compiler and source code, and every app i'll ever need.. and on top of that, I get a clean conscience in the bargain.
Sorry Mr Gates, you aint gonna see a single cent from me.. unless I find Micro$ucks has crumbled and your destitute begging on the street corner.. in which case I might let you work for a couple of bucks an hour bootstrapping gentoo boxes for me... ;-)
..is already theirs to freely build their windows from/on:)
They are likely doing this for marketing.
And they are not always right. I tried to update MS Office once, and a screen came back and said I had an illegal copy. I didn't.
But being a little fish, even if I have a legal copy I don't want the legal expense of defending myself. Because even if you do win, there is the issue of compensation for aggrevation, legal expense and lost work time.
So I promptly unloaded MS Office and loaded Open Office... and once you get used to it you wonder why you spent so much on MS Office.
Also consider this:
Wonder how many shops are reinstalling computers with XP Corp because the owner doesn't have / lost the original media and the computer had to be formatted. Telling them they're gonna have to shell out another hundred bucks for an OS is NOT a way to keep them happy
If you can't see the value in jet powered ants you should turn in your nerd card. - Dunbal (464142)
Given that quite a few people that use W*nd*ws seem to do all their "work" reading a certain popular website and getting boned by IE, spyware, and a few viruses, the last claim seems even reasonable.
I, just btw, proudly have not a single legit copy of any MS product. I wonder if they'll verify my operating system as being legit. ^^;
Just another "DOJ fascist authoritarian totalitarian bootlicker" -- Zeio
Thats the short answer. No, they wont get my permission to look at my stuff. Not even with a bribe.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Only problem with your scenario, is that if a keygen can duplicate ( even by a slim chance ) an existing corporate keyoode, then the legit company really cant be held liable at all.. its not their fault, most likely..
---- Booth was a patriot ----
I never said I wanted it for free.
We don't get that sick joke called "support" from IBM either. Again, we're talking support to a corporation. Paid-for premium support.
And it's so useless, you just can't describe how useless it is. All that huge message I've wrote doesn't even scratch the surface of the madness.
We've actually had several people quitting because of WebSphere and the frustration of dealing with IBM's support. Roll it around in your head. In a job market collapse, people rather quitting than keeping working with a product. That bad.
So again, it's not even hard for MS to look good by comparison. It's not that MS products are great per se, it's just that "software quality" or "good support" nowadays are complete oxymorons. Microsoft's just happens to be, well, "among the least bad".
It's sorta like choosing the "best" between being whipped and being kicked repeatedly in the balls, really. Me, I'll take the whipping if I have a choice.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
That is where the stronger conspiracy theory put forward does not work (although there probably is a conspiracy here somewhere). Remember, Microsoft actually encourage piracy of their products in some circles (where as they force big law-abiding users like governments to pay up) as this is the only way they can stop everyone from moving to a better OS. These facts have been well documented.
Joe Llywelyn Griffith Blakesley
[This post is in the public domain (copyright-free) unless otherwise stated]
When I went to view this article, I was greeted by two Microsoft ads.
I have gas, but my car uses petrol.
By pirating Windows, you're supporting Microsoft domination on the desktop.
No no, didn't you hear - downloading hurts the industry - he is sticking it to Bill!
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
You're right. You should send your laptop back, and make damn certain the company you tried to buy it from knows why.
Good luck.
this is almost as bad as their "The Facts" site:
Using genuine Microsoft software ensures that you get world-class reliability, security and support so you can be confident that your PC and system will provide the perofrmence and the experience that you have come to expect from...Microsoft...ask for geuine MS software
ye..right...and I had to retype that because for some goddamn reason the text is on the page as an image (without appropriate alt text)
http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fw ww.microsoft.com%2Fgenuine%2Fdefault.mspx%3Fdispla ylang%3Den arrggghh!
Joe Llywelyn Griffith Blakesley
[This post is in the public domain (copyright-free) unless otherwise stated]
That's still easy to crack.
Just change some of the assembly lines where it say: Go online verify.
Instead of having a image copy of Windows, one would have to settle with a cracked version of windows.
Thank you bill, at first I didn't think that linux migration isn't gonna work. But you have proven me wrong.
HWX3R-KMFCC-WPMCK-VMCHG-HWD6Q8 6PJY-GFKYM8 PKHX-HRMQG-28FW8-2QGW69 GM8F 89P-FJCPV-V4BDB7 YRW-6DVY8-24F8D-J77DK-YQQ2JQ 42-KVG33P H9-GBWFM-WWJJF-X7FYM
B89YQ-W7T8B-XBJJK-
RHQ2P-472GW-R7CC9-9FFJ3-4GTJG
CGVR9-
KWYMP-KV3TW-DD4XM-KRR79-D
M297F-F9R98-QV7TH-CJ3QK-3P3PJ
GV3MP-MX4JR-R
M28HD-RX7RD-2J77K-QTGJV-W4MYW
C
H9V8W-FRPCX-FR3DB-HJ
KRH72-BRV4D-KF3P3-9KHM9-8B86D
TDKXV-BT
I installed XP back in december of 2000.. i used that devils0wn FCK corp key.. once the keygen came out I generated a bunch of keys for me and some friends.. I changed my key years ago
I've installed the service packs and they install fine, they dont detect the key..
But I tried this validation thing and got
"Invalid Windows Product Key
Unfortunately the key that you used to install Windows matches one on a list of known invalid Product Keys."
then it says how it might be an invalid VLA or an old VLA key
How can that be? It's a custom generated key
I think its the corperate key, should i have used the Pro key?
Whew! I sure was worried that my linux dist. would not pass the Windows autenticity test!
Agreed! I sincerely wish Bill and co. absolutely 100% success in stamping out Windows copyright violations. The most likely manifestation of that will be white box vendors offering the same hardware with Linux and all the extras you will likely ever want, or for an extra $150 you can have bare-bones Windows. The Linux option will be the price they advertise.
and, likely, attempting to close the non-activation loophole for volume licensed copies with Longhorn
First, plenty of pirated versions of XP just use a cracked activator. VLK might make up for a larger percentage, only because it takes less effort. Fix that approach, and they'll just shift the balance rather than significantly affect the total.
Second, although to the average home user, the magic acronym "VLK" might sound like a godsend for piracy, for the average corporate IT person dealing with more than a dozen machines, the idea of not using a VLK sounds like insanity.
I spend almost half of my time at work healing PCs (around 150 wired employees, and not even my primary job description to keep them all happy). For anything more serious than "I can't print" (hyperbole, but not all that much), I just reinstall XP. Now, if I had to go through activation each time I do that... <Shudder>.
If every Joe User and even every Bob SuperAdmin had to pay full price (even OEM) for every single copy of Windows & Office (and Photoshop and x and y and z) out there, you would see a serious exodus to Linux and related.
Agree completely. You can currently get a decent new PC for well under $500. If the cost of that tripled just for software licensing, no one would run Windows.
I set up a machine in VMWare, installed using a key from the MSKey 4in1 VLK, product range 640-500 to 640-600.
It validates fine.
I have MSDN universal, so I'm fine, but it seems that the "is it valid" thing should actually detect invalid copies.
-Kacy
Companies shouldn't assume that everyone who's using dodgy/generated keys didn't legitimately purchase their software...
They don't have to assume. Given the legitimacy of EULAs, by cracking the software, you are in violation of the license. Therefore, you are obligated to destroy your copy. (No, they aren't obligated to return your money. Ha ha.) Therefore, if you continue to use it, you are doing so illegally without license, so they can pursue everybody using fake keys or patches without regard to whether the customer bought it.
It may have an impact on the resulting (theoretical) lawsuit, though. A non-paid-for copy of XP Home can plausibly be said to carry $100 in damages if you get charged with copyright infringement, but it is going to be hard to convince a judge of any damage for a paid-for copy. They might try to hit you with a contract-breach suit, but there's a reason no breach-of-EULA has ever actually gone to court, at least at the consumer level.
Practically speaking, there isn't much they can do legally. But given the legitimacy of EULAs, they can still safely act as though all cracked copies are illegitimate.
(Now, a lesson in logic for the Slashdotters who may not have gotten there yet: I use the term "given" to mean "If we assume X to be true". You see it a lot in real math classes. It does not make any claims about the actual truth of X. I personally do not accept EULAs in their current form. But Microsoft clearly does, and if you want to look from their point of view, as I did in this post, that's one of the things you have to take as a "given".)
But I ran the test and it said it was probably legitimate??? If they can't even tell, then why should I care if I pay for it or not?
My sig beat up your sig.
But computer software? Sorry man, you should care because you should have a conscience and know that stealing is wrong.
My Linux Command of the Day site : LCOD
Im not sure if its a good thing or a bad thing that Microsoft is starting to officially recognize and acknowledge its competition.
- They want people with Microsoft platforms to run the test.
- Some of them have abandoned IE for other browsers (such as Firefox).
- So to get non-IE browser users to run the test they have to tell them it will work on other browsers, and give special instructions for the users of browsers (Firefox) who might have to do something different to get it to run.
In this case it's more valuable to them to actually mention the other brwosers than to keep it mum, because getting more people to run the tool is less important to them than avoiding letting people know that there are options available.
Firefox penetration is quite large - especially among both people likely to have a pirated copy. And I'd IE replacement in general is getting up there at government and corporate sites, now that the US government's antiterrorist operation has issued specific warnings against IE as a hole for terrorist attacks on the US information infrastructure.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
Compatability with incompatability...
It may not keep them happy, but it's not the fault of the store. When we do a reinstall of XP at the store I work at if they've lost their key, we tell them they need to buy a new copy and that's the end of it. If they don't like it they can go somewhere else.
Sepluv, is there any chance you could provide a link or two to sources showing microsofts encouragement of piracy? Not that I doubt you, I just find the idea interesting and would like to read more about it.
Mine's a lot higher.
:)
How's this:
I'll let you check if my XP Home is legit if you'll give me a free upgrade to Longhorn when it comes out.
Not interested? I thought not.
I'll let Linus check if my Linux kernel is legal in exchange for a free upgrade to the 2.8 kernel when it comes out
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Actually, it is in the top 3. Microsoft spends most of its effort targeting corporate and reseller piracy.
I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
Can I get this validator to work with wine?
-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+ *** http://www.mountainfort.com *** +-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-
I already know all the copies of non-xp I install, and some of the xp I install, are pirated. Come get me.
Often wrong but never in doubt.
I am Jack9.
Everyone knows me.
I have rung the MS Phone activation many times. Simple,...
Sure...if you have a phone. Lots of folks here with internet but no phone service.
What?
Although where I used to work, not with Win XP. I quit my job because they were just 'sliding' copies of 98/ME on new computers and using used 2k/XP OEM keys on new computers (which is illegal).
No job is worth a knock on the door from the BSA.
Hrm. I probably should post this AC, but oh well.
Jay | http://oldos.org
Micro$oft: "Ja, zee process iz non-mandatory und anonymous. Of course all zose who do not pass zee test must vear zis little gold penguin sewn on all clothing"
A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
The anti-Microsoft bias here on slashdot is showing. :-)
50% Interesting
30% Insightful
20% Troll
But I wonder. Did the troll moderation because the post was anti-Microsoft, or because it praised Windows XP?
So what is your suggestion then? Give up doing what you were about to do entirely, because the software you would have absolutely needed only happens to run on Windows? And only continue using it after one year or so when it has been ported to some other platform?
Sorry, but your viewpoint is simply way too idealistic. It's sounds a bit like not using proprietary apps at all due to ideological reasons. Such an ideology just leads to situations, where you have to entirely give up doing something, which is otherwise technically possible.
“Wait for Hurd if you want something real” –Linus
It's included with the computer. Dell doesn't break down and seperate the price of Windows from the system, they include it. Many local builders do the same. They have complete systems with a price tag, and that includes Windows. Well, if I buy one of those, it's reasonable to assume that the copy I'm getting is legit. It should be part of the price. If they are giving me an illegal copy, that's fraud.
Bullshit. MSFT once owned some preferred stock of AAPL. But the sold them away few years ago, and preferred stocks do not count anyway. More information about the motives of that deal in this thread.
“Wait for Hurd if you want something real” –Linus
the same hardware with Linux and all the extras you will likely ever want, or for an extra $150 you can have bare-bones Windows
The hitch, though, is that everything the consumer wants isn't available on Linux.
Until there is a seamless 'Install Shield' type mechanism, and racks of games and other software that people can buy and install on their Linux system, they won't want a Linux system.
I have personally gone for over a year at a time on only-Linux system at home, starting back in 1994. I used Linux-only for most of the year 1998. Shit, I've put 'comments' on snail-mail offers from Microsoft and shipped 'em back at them.
Linux doesn't cut it, for a lot of uses that a lot of people find important. Until there's a full WYSIWYG PDF editor like Adobe Acrobat (no, 'print to PDF' and 'PDF viewer' doesn't do it), until there's a powerful Sound editor like Cool Edit, it won't suffice for me. And those are just two instances.
The $150 bare-bones Windows at least can be realistically enhanced with stuff people want, in the ways they're accustomed to getting them. Come back when Linux is close to being done.
"What's the frequency Kenneth?"
You are mostly correct about the piracy rates going down, they do. What is funny, at it's only a recent development, that some pirates would rather migrate to GPL software in certain cases. For example, you need to include a media player and a codec on a CD disc with a DivX movie, because who knows what the user have installed and what he haven't. The movie can be a standard pirate fare, but the question is - what player you put there? It happens that licensing a commercial player would be prohibitively expensive (several times more per copy than the disc would sell for). This is mindboggling, but pirates actually do care about license issues sometimes and so they turn to GPL players. :) Seriously.
For anything more serious than "I can't print" (hyperbole, but not all that much), I just reinstall XP.
Sorry. You don't sound like a very qualified support person. There are 'boardswapping drones' in hardware repair, and have been since the minicomputer era. There are parts swappers at auto shops.
I won't say 'beneath contempt' because perhaps you just haven't had enough training.
"What's the frequency Kenneth?"
Only if they knew how to operate those cameras... Teir sales people can't even explain the difference between Intel and AMD, and you think they can operate cameras? Ha! When penguins fly! (And I don't mean the penguin in Tux Racer.)
How droll we are to swallow Micro$$$$$ argument about 'legitimate software'! No software sold at retail in common stores in the United States today is really 'legit'! Look at the legal conundrums that serve as 'limited warrantees' to see the lie of claimes of legitimacy exposed for anyone who cares to read them. I mean really read them, not just 'click and fly away to ignorance is bliss land'.
Read those 'agreements' and you will see that the makers of the software consider there product is unreliable junk. They run away from all guarantees or warrantees, even that of merchantability or fitness. That means, sports fans, that the software is considered by its makers not worth the paper that it is boxed in. All arguments about value or legitimacy should really be directed at the manufacturers who do not want us to even look at the code of the stuff to see how deficient it probably really is!
I'm pretty sure if you register with microsoft by providing your CD key, name and address, like most companies recommend, you can call and get your key back / get a new key.
Reason, free market capitalism, and individualism
Well, I can tell you that some things are quicker fixed by reinstalling windows then by going through the steps of fixing them. Back in my IT days (9 months ago) we just prepared a ghost image for all the computers. All user data was on active directory and it would takes us about 30minutes to an hour to reinstall windows and get all the user settings and such back. Sometimes it's easier then going through the hassle of fixing the damn thing.
Month 1
Me: Hey Bob, guess what I got?
Bob: What?
Me: I got pirated copy of firefox, no key required.
Bob: Really, can you burn me one.
Me: Take this one, I already have a copy on my HD. If ya want the source code, let me know.
Month 2
Me: Bob, guess what?
Bob: What
Me: I got an office suite; its pirated from sun.
Bob: Sun?
Me: Sun, yea, they made a new proto-type MS Office killer. Serial numbers have been removed from the product. Some crackers removed the name and called it OpenOffice. They have a web site mocking them. Its great.
Bob: Can I get a copy?
Me: Take this one, I got a copy on my HD. If ya want the source code, let me know. I know people.
Month 3:
Enter in this whole FOSS / GNU / Linux thing.
"piece of mind" A great of example of why correct spelling is important. I know how shouldn't let these things bother me and I know it is rude to correct someone's spelling. I also know that a lot of grammer experts are going to rip this port apart but when a sentence is rendered meaningless....... The word is peace. It's not the same as piece. They're called homonyms - same word but different meaning. That's why correct spelling is important. If it was in a posted comment I wouldn't bother but it is in the blurb for a submitted story! Is there any editorial control, any proof-reading?
The new Holiday Fun Pack!
Spend the holidays in prison you filthy pirate!
You get cool stuff like!
-An 8 year sentence in prison!
-a 99 cent post card to write to your friends and family!
-Free unlimited Prison Sex!
-A premade noose!
and much much more!
Steam allows its users to download and install the software wherever they want, so long as they only use one copy per license at a time. I think the only restriction they have is that Steam cannot be installed to a network device.
Serial numbers weren't even implemented until Windows for Workgroups 3.11. Even then, it still wasn't required to have one upon installing Windows. Windows 95 was the first that "required" inputting a serial number, but of course everyone knows the generic serial for 95 and 98. How on earth do they plan on cracking down on these old versions of Windows? Just because some of them aren't supported, doesn't meant they aren't still in use.
Frankly I always wonder how they can prove you actually accepted that EULA. If _you_ did not have somebody accept it on your behalf, and you did not accept it. How can _you_ be accountable. "Oh my friend must have installed that on my computer when i wasn't around."
I have a legit copy of WinXP - it was given to me by MS after I made a suggestion on how to improve hotmail - the irony is, I now use Gmail and firefox. The point is, having snooped the packet that is sent, I am satisified they aren't poking around in my computer. So I grabbed Photo Story 3, only yesterday. As it happened I was at a pissup last night and with minimal effort made a photo thingy that has resulted in heaps of "shit, that was good, how did you do it". I don't think MS are the good guys, but since I am not suffering from paranoid delusions, I don't think that I have anything to fear from them.
President ISES
(International Society for Elimination of Sigs)
I speak from experience with a client. He has a Toshiba Laptop.
The Toshiba guys have some sort of CLONED CD from a hard drive, and when something goes wrong with your legitimate Windows XP (Home - ack), there's no choice. You can't just insert the Microsoft Windows XP CD and choose "repair". No. You have to insert the cloned CD from Toshiba, make it repartition your HD, format it, and install their already-tweaked version.
Microsoft could do their users a BIG favor if they forced their re-vendors to distribute "rescue" CD's in case some of these stupidities happen.
Oh, you wanna know how this guy's HD was messed up in the first place? He said "yes" when asked to install SP2.
It's still fucking legal if you run XP without activating it, you goddamn moron. Just because you don't comply 100% with Microsoft's EULA doesn't mean you're a criminal. Just because MS says something is illegal does NOT make it illegal. There's copyright and then there's crime.
Nobody should have to ask permission to use software once they've already bought it. You're just one of the poor few too ignorant and naive enough to believe Microsoft, in it's ever-increasing legalized monopolistic behavior, will gravitate towards reason.
A free-market economy cannot influence Microsoft any longer since there is no longer a free market. So, the only thing left is active disobedience. By submitting to MS's phone activation scheme, you're just showing MS that there's willing drones ready to do anything required to run their software.
Non-morons know that asking permission to use something you already bought it unreasonable, so I am justified by calling you a moron. Not only do you submit to their requirements, but you actively defend them.
--- We need more Ron Paul!
Linux doesn't cut it, for a lot of uses that a lot of people find important. Until there's a full WYSIWYG PDF editor like Adobe Acrobat (no, 'print to PDF' and 'PDF viewer' doesn't do it), until there's a powerful Sound editor like Cool Edit, it won't suffice for me. And those are just two instances.
OpenOffice.org and Audacity. You can test both of them on your Windows machine without making the switch.
Um, I don't actually know if there's an import pdf filter for OpenOffice.org. I keep my source material so I don't have to deal with editing the PDF, I just generate new ones.
Like what I said? You might like my music
(Posted as AC to protect my butt).
But you wanna know something? If Microsoft didn't have a monopoly over Microsoft Word (I used to haev WordPerfect on my machine), Excel (my dad used Lotus), and even DOS (we tried DR-DOS, but stupid microsoft undocumented code screwed compatibility - hey, ), and of course, Windows (I wanted OS/2!), I _WOULD_ have considered buying Windows.
But now, they had to screw us ALL users to get all the marketshare. So now we end up having ONE operating system, ONE "decent" office, etc.
I'm forced to use crappy tools to make Excel stylesheets from PHP webpages because Microsoft hasn't RELEASED the excel file format (the heck, they keep adding more secret stuff every year).
I used to use Netscape, but Microsoft came over with IE4 included with windows and we all know where that went.
And they want me to PAY them for the "favor" of giving me "great" products? Screw' em all. If I could I would bomb the entire Redmond facilities or destroy all their MS Office soure code.
Really. Microsoft would do us ALL a favor if they simply released their file formats and the XP source code.
In the meantime, I can only daydream of a decent Linux who will run all windows software (i.e. winamp with all the MOD and MIDI plugins, games, etc) except the malware.
That's why I haven't bought Windows, and NEVER WILL.
I downloaded the installer, and it wouldn't install, it gave me the message "Windows Media Player 10 must be installed..." etc.
Well, as you may know, WMP 10 includes no improvements at all, but mainly exists because it has strengthened digital right management tools. It actuallys lets you do less than WMP 9.
This space available.
PDF files can be hyperlinked, tables of content can be generated for them, etc. They can be annotated by people in collaborative groups.
.
I use Acrobat to scan paper documents directly into PDF format. My sheetfed scanner will do doubleside scans.
A 'print filter' is a pathetic comparison. I guess, however, if that's the only tool you have for generating PDF. .
There isn't any tool at a realistic price range that compares to Cool Edit. My point really wasn't to raise these examples as 'absolute' claims, but rather to show a few examples where app developers went deep into the task and developed Windows Apps to meet a need. Linux is quite weak in the area of Multimedia authoring apps.
"What's the frequency Kenneth?"
Not every store has the luxury of being able to afford to turn away customers.
If you can't see the value in jet powered ants you should turn in your nerd card. - Dunbal (464142)
OpenOffice.org's pdf filter isn't a print filter, it's an export filter, and supports all the linking and crap you're talking about. Furthermore, LyX supports it very directly, by using LaTeX in its backend. So if that's what you're looking for, it's already there.
Audacity does everything CoolEdit 2000 does, and most of it it does better (the only exception being export to mp3, and that's debateable, and also the pop'n'click filter). I don't know how Audacity compares to the newer versions that have been rebranded since CoolEdit got bought by Adobe (or was it Apple? Someone with an A-name).
I wasn't specifically trying to refute your examples. I was trying to make a completely different point, which is that many times people hold up a few examples and say "Linux isn't good enough", and all the examples demonstrate is that whatever the poster was trying to say, he hasn't actually checked to see if it's true, because it wasn't.
The only sense in which Linux is weak in the area of multimedia authoring apps is the sense that some of the key apps are still unstable. Once stability has arrived (coming soon), Linux will be quite superior to Windows simply because the multimedia programmers for Linux have taken the time to build an extremely powerful architecture (the first A in ALSA means "Advanced". There's also Jack, and a few other things). So we're just waiting for stability. And for many of us, stability is already here where we need it.
As for word processors and pdf support, it's been here for awhile as well. And I'm not just talking about a print filter. LyX has had excellent pdf support for several years, OpenOffice.org got it in the 1.1 branch. So I'm not entirely certain what you're looking for, especially since I've *never* managed to coerce Acrobat to do anything for me. Maybe I'm too dumb to use Adobe applications, but I'm not too dumb for Linux. Go figure that one.
Like what I said? You might like my music
> but received 800,000 without offering anything but piece of mind.
Piece of mind? Sure! How about: screw you M$!
The legislation I have the pleasure to enjoy where I am right now doesnt consider EULAs to be binding in anyway, it isnt even considered any form of contract. Actually it is simply impossible here that I coud have made any contract with m$ anyhow (yes, no shrink wrap license), as I didnt buy my copy from them but from a vendor. Easy : I have a contract with the vendor, not with m$ - so they cant impose anything by any means legal that goes beyond the extend of IP laws that apply anyway. Nice isnt it?
IANAL blabla
Life has become the ideology of its absence - T.W. Adorno
...VST(2)-support? Rewire? Just about any decent audio/midi sequenzer? As much as I like Linux, but it really sux big time in the music creation department, both consumer and pro level. Given, that it is only a very small user group affected, but I think it illustrates a thing or two.
... well, way to go.
I'll grant that audacity is a nice app and ardour seems to be on a promising way, eventually there might even be some softsynth-ports sometime and midi integration is on their roadmap for 3.0, but currently its 0.9betasomething. If I could have Reason (yes, it is a toy but a great one) for linux, too
Life has become the ideology of its absence - T.W. Adorno
MonkeyBoy Ballmer wants to gather a starting list for lawsuits after seeing the **IA's recent "court settlements for profit" business model being so lucrative. Don't kid youself that it's to your best interests! It's for their shady business plans, no doubt.
Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
but can apparently afford to knowingly break the law?...real smart.
Saying they are knowingly breaking the law is assuming a lot of things which may not be true...
SSL Certificate
I'd be more worried about installing illegal software personally. Also, we rarely turn customers away in a case like this. They might get mad and huff and puff but in the end they usually just tell us to go ahead and sell them another copy.
Just like you can afford to knowingly break the law when you download MP3s. The odds of being caught are about the same, for a small time computer shop.
If you can't see the value in jet powered ants you should turn in your nerd card. - Dunbal (464142)
I stab at thee!
Nope, what I would do is bite the bullet and pay for Windows along with some antivirus software and deal with the complexity of interacting with your favourite OS and keeping the environment stable.
In reality, yeah, many people would probably pirate the OS and pirate the software. But when you wonder why there are no little guys offering slightly lesser products for $50 instead of full blown professional products for $1000, you'll know that you've got the $1000 product for nothing, and software companies, by tolerating piracy, have effectively found a way to freeze out the competition through "market dumping" and pass the blame on to the consumers.
IMHO, the software license model is flawed. It depends on the public legal system to incur the costs of enforcing private interests. Make the software companies pay for their screwed up business model and they'd all quickly shift from a software license model towards a service-based model. Why are our taxes being used to protect Microsoft from piracy?
Sorry. You don't sound like a very qualified support person.
It takes less than an hour to reinstall Windows.
It (can) take considerably more than an hour to track down whatever stupid mistake user-X made (or get them to admit they did something wrong, with enough detail to track it down), assuming they broke something non-trivial.
There are 'boardswapping drones' in hardware repair, and have been since the minicomputer era.
You incorrectly make the mistake of assuming that my choosing to reinstall Windows rather than waste more time repairing it means I could not repair it, if I so wished. If that held true, I would actually agree with you. But my goal in doing my job involves only getting the job done in the most efficient manner possible. I consider taking longer than necessary to do a job nothing more than egotistical self entertainment. Yes, fixing a machine the "right" way gives almost a sort of thrill-of-the-hunt feeling... I don't get paid to hunt, I get paid for results.
I won't say 'beneath contempt' because perhaps you just haven't had enough training.
I will. "Beneath contempt". Perhaps you get paid hourly rather than on salary... As for myself (and my employer, but I consider that the less relevant point), the less time it takes me to fix something, the more time I have to do my actual job.
Okay, sure. Any college/university bookstore that sells legal copies of Microsoft operating systems, applications and development tools. For example, I bought a licensed copy of Visual Studio 6, complete, for five bucks. Interestingly, being an "academic" version it didn't have nor require a serial number. It just installed, and while it did ask for a registration code, you could type in "slashdot sucks" and it would install fine. Microsoft knows full well that every kid on campus will have a copy of any of their products that they want, and the lack of a registration code just makes it that much easier to give away. So yes, Microsoft does (in some circles, as the parent said) encourage "piracy" (and I use the term loosely, this isn't really piracy) with the express intent of gaining and maintaining mindshare. They want those thousands of graduates to be familiar with Microsoft's products, so that when they eventually get out into the corporate world they will buy and recommend what they know. In Bill Gates' ideal world, this would only be Windows and Office.
Apple began doing this back in the early 80's, and Microsoft, as usual, embraced and extended someone else's good idea.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
You have to run this validator to get it now, I see (I'm going to see what little hardware XP needs - XP Pro's been run on as little as a 20MHz Pentium (with 32MB RAM), and a 63MHz Pentium OD with 18MB RAM).
I wish that people would get past the propaganda that you must use windows. Any software for the win32 platform can be run with emulators on the Mac. I know they cost more than most pcs, but what are you willing to pay for security and long life. The pc you buy today will be outdated yesterday, but most other platforms have a long product life as evidenced by the VAXes still in use. But remember that if you need an emulator don't use VirtualPC now owned by the devil himself.
Hmm, that's interesting. Thanks for the info.
i still think its crazy to want to edit pdf documents directly. pdf lets ppl share documents that are easily readable, printable, fast and free of virii. if you want someone to *edit* your work, send a text file or word doc, or latex source
The hitch, though, is that everything the consumer wants isn't available on Linux.
Some consumers want things that aren't available on Linux. Others will be quite happy with what is already there. For example, I haven't had a Windoes machine since '95, and I haven't missed it.
Some parents may consider the sparcity of games for Linux to be a feature!
As more people who are used to paying for proprietary software have Linux machines, the incentive for companies to have a Linux port will grow.
As for Install Shield, why in the world would anyone want that crap when Linux offers several package management systems (yum, apt, apt4rpm, etc) already? With many of the desktop systems available in Linux, the install procedure is: Insert the CD. When the window pops up, doubleclick install. Done. If people can't handle that, they won't likely have a computer unless they hire an electrician to plug it in for them.
Also keep in mind that the $150 is just the start. If MS is successfull in stamping out copyright infringement, there'll also be extra costs for Office, etc. That might make OpenOffice look fairly attractive.
I tried it. But they insist that I be online when I run the checker. Sorry, Bill, but I won't connect to the Internet using Windows. Too many security holes. Give me a validity checker that I can download and I'll use it.
AFAIK, I run a legal copy of Windows 98 Thai Edition First Edition, which Microsoft no longer supports, so no patches.
Sorry, Bill, but no way am I going to let your holey system wade through the Internet swamp.
Using a 'phone isn't as trivial for everyone as most people think. Although I doubt the grandparent poster is in this category there are people out there for whom making a non-personal 'phone-call is a heck of a trial.
I get anxiety attacks sometimes trying to make phone-calls. To me that's more than enough for me to never buy software that requires phone-activation. I'm not paying for something that ensures me having to work myself into a right state merely to use what I've legitimately paid for.
No definitely not "simple" in my case. And I know that my anxiety issues are minor compared to some. And my experience with any phone-support line tends to suggest it wouldn't be "quick" either.
Plus, anxiety issues or not, why should someone have to phone up to validate something they've paid (usually a lot of) money for just because they've chosen/needed to change the hardware several times?
Once you've bought it the software's still legal. You shouldn't have to go out of your way so that the company you've already paid can "allow" you to get what you paid for.
Tiggs
"120 chars should be enough for everyone..."
Simply move to Iran. It appears the government there can stop "false" political speech!3
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=1941
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
I would say the odds of being caught as a small business are BETTER than being caught as a private individual.
Businesses have employees and customers that can be disgruntled. Home users are one fish in an ocean, and the lawsuits are just the RIAA out of a boat, casting a net.
-- Having a Creationist Museum is like having an Atheist place of worship