NetBSD Chooses New Logo

jschauma writes "Live from EuroBSDCon 2004: The NetBSD Project announces its new logo. The logo was selected out of over 400 submissions in an albeit lengthy process, where the developers considered various important aspects of a new identifying logo. See the official logo contest announcement (to refresh your memory) and the official press release."

Comments

More corporate looking

[fembots]

The new logo certainly has more corporate appeal, and its simplicity also allows different colors to be used, which means easier to place on different color background.

Coupled with a trademark, this might enough for people to push it to PHB.

Re:More corporate looking

[Anonymous Coward]

I wonder if these people had any implicit pressure placed on wasabi who might have discussed things with NetBSD. It just seems like a smart business move is all. Kind of like what firefox is doing and all.

For those who don't know what I'm talking about, have a lookee at NetBSD Support From Wasabi Systems, Inc.

Re:More corporate looking

[Anonymous Coward]

The new logo certainly has more corporate appeal, and its simplicity also allows different colors to be used[...]

Yeah, for example white flag.

Re:More corporate looking

[Anonymous Coward]

Wasabi employs half of the NetBSD developers that live in the US so it's hardly a surprise that they'll have some influence. Is that a bad thing? I don't think so. In the same way Yahoo has something to say about FreeBSD development, since they sponsor it and have some committers working for them (Bill 'Turbo Flamage' Fumerola, for example).

--
HawkinsOS, kicking Smorgreff in the ass since 2004.

Re:More corporate looking

[amerei]

so what happens to the cute little devil now?

Re:More corporate looking

[TelJanin]

You're thinking of the FreeBSD devil. The NetBSD devils looked more like pornstars than cute.

Re:More corporate looking

[ajs]

I'm curious, did the BSDs ever resolve the "disagreement" (I put it in quotes because the nature or extent of it and who exactly it was directed at was never clear to the public) between themselves and Phil Foglio? As I recall, it was Phil's Daemon design for one of the early Unix conferences that inspired the modern BSD daemon (I've seen the original T-shirt once, it's pretty cool).

Here's one person's recollection of the history of the Daemon design.

Re:More corporate looking

[Brandybuck]

What disagreement?!?! There is no disagreement! Do you guys just get bored over the weekend and make up stuff?

Re:More corporate looking

[eyeye]

But while we are on the subject a funny story about it :-)

Re:More corporate looking

[Pseudonym]

Now I'm confused. I always thought the first Daemon was drawn by John Lasseter.

Re:More corporate looking

[jUNKfOOD]

Is it the devil you're talking about?

Re:More corporate looking

[ajs]

Well, did you follow the second link in my post?

The disagreement (and, if you re-read what I wrote, you'll see it was, in fact a question), as I heard about it, was around the rights to the original shirt and any designs based on it. The original shirt showed a DEC PDP with many very Foglioesque daemons climbing all over it. The current daemon is much more detailed than any of Foglio's but the combination of the lack of citation of his original work and the re-issue of the T-shirt without permission (apparently involving a DEC marketting push for Ultrix) were reported to have gotten under Phil's collar, and he's been a bit touchy on the subject ever since.

I don't know how serious it ever was. I only talked to Phil at a con once, and I never brought up the design. I was just asking.

What disagreement?!?! There is no disagreement!

Unless you're Phil Foglio, I don't think it's really your place to make that assertion.

That it was resolved, I'd buy... if it was resolved, but to say that there was never a dispute? No.

Re:More corporate looking

[ajs]

The original cute-looking daemon you know today, yes. There was a shirt by Phil Foglio which showed a bunch of little creatures with horns and pitchforks climbing on a PDP mini-computer before that, though. The current daemon was clearly based on those little, much less detailed, daemons.

You can look here for Jonathan M. Bresler's take: http://www.lemis.com/grog/whyadaemon.html

His perception was that it was a work for hire, and Phil didn't have residual rights to it. It was, however, a highly informal deal and there was nothing in writing (which, under US copyright law, I believe gives credence to Phil's claim over the shirt itself, if not the derivative daemon as well, but I'm not a lawyer).

If anyone has more info, please reply.

Re:More corporate looking

[Brandybuck]

I've followed you second link, and I still don't see any "disagreement" with BSD. The second hand rumour (and that's all it is, a second hand rumour) of your link involves DEC, not BSD.

You asserted that Phil inspired the modern BSD daemon (Beastie). This is absolutely incorrect. For the link happy, here's the pictoral history of Beasty.

Re:More corporate looking

[ajs]

You asserted that Phil inspired the modern BSD daemon (Beastie). This is absolutely incorrect.

Wow, you're all fired up about this. I'll let Kirk do my talking for me, since you referenced his site:

About 1 year after Usenix produced the Portland conference T-shirts, they paid Phil for the artwork. Thus, Usenix currently holds title to the copyright.

The BSD daemon showed up again on the shirt shown in the second picture for the Usenix multimedia conference held in 1991 in Nashville Tennessee.

As I've said before, that is the BSD party line and has been for over 2 decades (long before the current round of kiddies or even some of the old timers like me got involved). If Phil agrees, that's fine, but last I heard he was not, in fact, in agreement, and with nothing written down other than Kirk's assertions, I'm at a loss as to how this is "resolved"

Let me stress that I have nothing but respect for all concerned, and I'm not suggesting anyone did anything deliberately wrong, but I've been hearing about this since I first saw the shirt, and I would have thought that at this point a) people would be openly thanking Phil for his wonderful contribution, not denying it and b) there would be some definitive document from Phil as to the ownership of the original copyright.

For those who have never seen it, check out: the very first, grinning red devil w/ pitchfork that inspired the modern BSD daemon.

New Logo

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe a headstone would be a more appropriate logo, no?

Re:New Logo

[cmad_x]

Well the older logo was considered bad because it was hard to recreate. And my guess is that they just wanted a simple logo. Unless they could symbolize the "team" aspect with something simple, they wouldn't use it for the new logo.

Re:New Logo

[Zoko Siman]

Netcraft confirms it, kicking a dead horse is still fun.

Re:New Logo

[seek31337]

Flags usually signify teams or groups.

Re:New Logo

[seek31337]

s/usually/often/

Re:New Logo

[Anonymous Coward]

Every Halloween I hope against hope that the letters "BSD" will appear on one of the headstones in the opening of the new simpons Halloween special. We should petition them. :)

Albeit?

[HawaiianMayan]

Try "in a lengthy process".

If you don't know how to use big words, please don't bother trying.

Re:Albeit?

[Anonymous Coward]

parent shouldn't be modded flamebait, his comment is obviously correct and the poster's usage is obviously wrong.

Re:Albeit?

[bwy]

Flamebait? my ass? Whoever posted this story doesn't have adequate command of our language.

Re:Albeit?

[pjt33]

I suspect that the poster redacted a sentence which talked about e.g. "a democratic, albeit lengthy, process" without understanding the meaning of "albeit".

Re:Albeit?

[Anonymous Coward]

If you don't know how to use big words, please don't bother trying.

Albeit is not that big a word. Medium at most.

Re:Albeit?

[Anonymous Coward]

"I Don't Think That Word Means What You Think It Means."

Re:Albeit?

[pyrrhonist]

Whoever posted this story doesn't have adequate command of our language.

Or German for that matter (from which the word is from originally).

Re:Albeit?

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, all that is wrong is some missing commas.

The logo, was selected out of, over 400 submissions in, an, albeit lengthy, process.

Diagram that! I dare ya! Commas = power, ultimate.

Re:Albeit?

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you just guessing to try to sound smart?

http://www.bartleby.com/61/85/A0178500.html

Also, it's "which the word is from", not "from which the word is from".

Re:Albeit?

[Anonymous Coward]

ok not flamebait but offtopic

Re:Albeit?

[ralinx]

If you don't know how to use big words, please don't bother trying.

you must be new here :)

Re:Albeit?

[Anonymous Coward]

Or even better: "from which the word originates." (So we don't end with a preposition.)

Re:Albeit?

[geminidomino]

It's Halloween! He's just hanging out with his buddies "an" and "lengthy", scaring little children and munching on Reese's cups.

Sheesh! Freedom of association, people!

Re:Albeit?

[Anonymous Coward]

So what?
Maybe he's an not a native english speaker?

Re:Albeit?

[Paradise Pete]

parent shouldn't be modded flamebait, his comment is obviously correct

A post can be factually correct and still be flamebait.
You fucking moron. (There, see?)

("You fucking moron" is for illustrative purposes. Parent poster may or may not actually be a fucking moron.)

Re:Albeit?

[Anonymous Coward]

or even "from which, that word". Punctuation going outside the quotes because the quotation is a fragment and I'm not a dumb American.

Re:Albeit?

[Anonymous Coward]

Parent poster may or may not actually be a fucking moron.

In the sense that we don't know exactly if he's a "fucking" one?

Re:Albeit?

[Anonymous Coward]

This is slashdot. It's obvious that he's not a "fucking" one.

Re:Albeit?

[Anonymous Coward]

("You fucking moron" is for illustrative purposes. Parent poster may or may not actually be a fucking moron.)

Void where prohibited. Offer not valid in Alaska and Hawaii, the freak states.

/ needed more disclaimers

Re:Albeit?

[Anonymous Coward]

OK lets try the substitution game to see if it is still OK.

The logo was selected out of over 400 submissions in an even though lengthy process

While not THAT good, it still makes sense.

Unlike a computer language English is rather fluid... You have to look NO further than the smurfs to know what I am smurfing talking about.

So the next time you feel the need to GO OFF on someone because of what they type. In the words of Jon Stewart 'Please stop...'

Re:Albeit?

[Anonymous Coward]

Albeit is not that big a word. Medium at most.

It's sort of medium-rare.

Re:Albeit?

[arodland]

The criteria for being a "big word" have never included length. Just think: "nor" is a big word for most people ;)

Ugh

[cmad_x]

The last one was too complex, but I don't totally like this one either. Maybe having Beastie somewhere would have been nice.

Re:Ugh

[Anonymous Coward]

Erhm, do you realise that it was beastie that was removed because some people (*cough*christians*cough*) could feel offended? (read: those morons cannot tell a daemon from a demon).

--
HawkinsOS, kicking Smorgreff in the ass since 2004.

Re:Ugh

[fluffybacon]

Erhm, do you realise that it was beastie that was removed because some people (*cough*christians*cough*) could feel offended? (read: those morons cannot tell a daemon from a demon).

Maybe we could have a BSD Saviour logo as well then

Re:Ugh

[julesh]

read: those morons cannot tell a daemon from a demon

Neither can I.

daemon n.

1. Chiefly British. Variant of demon.

(Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved -- via dictionary.com)

There is no difference, it's just a different way of spelling the same word. What's your point?

hmm

[nomadic]

I like it. Clean and attractive. Maybe someone can get that guy to design a new logo/mascot for linux, something other than that annoying-looking penguin.

Re:hmm

[schleyfox]

you bastard, tux is the shit. Also each distro has its own logo, and most of those are more corporate.

Re:hmm

[superpulpsicle]

I don't know about this NetBSD logo. Out of all the unix flavors, whether you like the OS or not, Sun Microsystem still have the most intelligent logo.

The linux penguin looks so damn friendly. We need an elite-looking penguin symbol, like the Atlanta Falcons logo.

Re:hmm

[lspd]

I like it. Clean and attractive

I'd call it bland and meaningless, but YMMV. The press release says nothing about why this particular logo was chosen and doesn't mention the color of the flag at all. The color of a flag is supposed to mean something. Orange is usually a warning sign, as in the orange flags on kids bicycles or the orange flags on beaches to indicate hazardous swimming.

So why orange?

Re:hmm

[nomadic]

So why orange?

To warn people how frustrating installing netbsd will be?

Re:hmm

[arivanov]

I'd call it bland and meaningless

Objection your honour.

It is the flag from the old logo taken solely and transplanted. So anyone who has been around long enough to remember the old logo knows what it means. A bunch of d(a)emons sticking the banner on top of a mound of old computer kit. At the same time you can now present it to the PHB. He now no longer sees an image of satanistic computer abuse. You can now even put it on your website and say "driven by NetBSD" without being called onto the carpet.

I do not like the reasons why it is being done, but let's face it, the realm of free Unixes is no longer a realm of geeks. It is a large business now and NetBSD has its place in it.

Re:hmm

[nomadic]

I'd settle for something a little stylized, like this one.

Re:hmm

[lspd]

It is the flag from the old logo taken solely and transplanted. So anyone who has been around long enough to remember the old logo knows what it means.

Certainly a valid point. The slant of the flag pole indicates a team effort, even if the symbolism is lost on anyone who hasn't seen the old logo. Still, why is the flag orange?

Re:hmm

[thogard]

Why Orange?

Because MS has a trademark on the red, green, blue and yellow flag?

This new logo looks like a trademark law suit looking to be lost.

Re:hmm

[tverbeek]

Linux doesn't need a new logo, because it already has dozens. Don't like the penguin? Use the hat, or the lizard, or the spiral, or the flower, or the broken "L", or the puffy "g", or the menage-a-trois, or the dotty "X", or the lightning bolt, or... whichever one you think is going to appeal to whatever audience you want to pitch Linux too. And if you don't like any of those... make one yourself!

Re:hmm

[anethema]

Overruled.

Re:hmm

[bob beta]

I liked the Platypus Linux Logo.

It seems nuts to me to use a bird that devolved so much it forgot how to fly as a mascot.

Re:hmm

[Nutria]

he press release says nothing about why this particular logo

But puke liberal political correctness is the reason that the old logo was tossed.

http://mail-index.netbsd.org/netbsd-advocacy/2004/ 01/14/0001.html

"Has negative cultural, and religious ramifications."

Although, for the life of me, I can't figure out what "religious ramification" the USMC War Memorial has.

And, of course, the "negative cultural ramifications" is "defeat of really nasty aggressor regeime". Just ask the Chinese, Koreans, Philippines, Viet Namese, etc.

Re:hmm

[tverbeek]

Hmph! "Devolution" is a subjective - and arguably meaningless - concept. One could just as easily accuse sparrows of forgetting how to swim or to run. More correctly, one should say that each evolved to fill a particular niche.

Re:hmm

[nomadic]

Perhaps it was offensive to those marines who risked their lives to raise the flag there. Seeing the symbol of their courage turned into an operating system logo, where your fellow marines are depicted as devils might be a tad disrespectful. Call me politically correct, but I think I agree with them.

Although, for the life of me, I can't figure out what "religious ramification" the USMC War Memorial has.

I think you know perfectly well they were talking about the devils.

Re:hmm

[Anonymous Coward]

It is a warning to potential users that NetBSD may be dying.

>_

Re:hmm

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

Well, my interpretation, apart from that it's a revision of an old logo, is that it the flag represents teamwork (as another poster said) and also dominance or pioneering. Which is fitting since one of NetBSD goals is to run on any platforms.

As for the meaning of orange, orange does not symbolise warning per se. It's just that it's used as a warning color because it's bright. Orange can mean warmth, invigorating, stimulating, strength, energy, "energy of red and the happiness of yellow", etc. Do a google search of the meanings of colors, and you will find many different meanings from all sorts of cultures.

I like the logo. It's clean, simple, and has meaning, like all logos should be.

Re:hmm

[lahi]

Platypus is the *Darwin* logo!

And there's nothing nuts about that.

-Lasse

Re:hmm

[Anonymous Coward]

dunno why orange, other than it looks good, HOWEVER - in NetBSD, orange in the default highlight colour for a terminal without proper support... I've used it for so long now whenever I see orange I start to calm down and relax, don't worry, the man pages are here now ;)

Re:hmm

[EvilAlien]

WARNING: The OS You Have Just Installed Is Closer to Death Than It Appears

I can't believe it took them this long to select that.

Re:hmm

[jabberw0k]

VAX/VMS 3.1 manuals, all those shelves full of them, were about the same color orange.

Ah, for the comforting sight of a wall full of DEC manuals!

(And the faint whiff of vinyl ring binders, stale cigarette smoke, and dehydrated Dr. Pepper.)

Hmmm

[ShatteredDream]

So they dropped the BSD devils? I wonder what happened? Did somebody send a few planes full of Southern Baptists and Jehova's Witnesses over to Europe to have a little chat with the NetBSD team?

Re:Hmmm

[noselasd]

This is about a new logo, not about a mascot. A logo is not a mascot.

Re:Hmmm

[0racle]

I believe it was because the BSD Daemon is more closely associated with FreeBSD and the NetBSD team wanted something that was more their own. Some one also pointed out the 'raising the flag over iwo jima' might have been a touchy point for some people, especially as NetBSD moves more and more into corporate environments around the world.

BTW some people that believe in the Bible and are Christians actually do have a sense of humour. I personally painted the little devil guy onto my FreeBSD system.

Re:Hmmm

[Anonymous Coward]

BTW some people that believe in the Bible and are Christians actually do have a sense of humour.

I don't just believe in the Bible. I've seen one with my own eyes.

Re:Hmmm

[sydb]

I don't know about being Christian but there's no need to have belief in the Bible. It's a fact. It does exist. I've seen it on several occasions (usually in hotels for some reason).

So, it's no longer a matter of faith. The Bible is for real.

Re:Hmmm

[whereiswaldo]

I'm glad to see a new logo. Why have a project associated with the devil, whether you're religious or not?

"an evil spirit"

"an extremely wicked person"

"often capitalized : the personal supreme spirit of evil often represented in Jewish and Christian belief as the tempter of mankind, the leader of all apostate angels, and the ruler of hell -- usually used with the; often used as an interjection, an intensive, or a generalized term of abuse"

Re:Hmmm

[Smurf]

Yes, but if you RTFA you'll find that the old logo had four devils:

http://www.netbsd.org/images/NetBSD-old.jpg

Re:Hmmm

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, I have some news for you, dude. God doesn't exist, and there's nothing beyond death. Why in the world do you guys insist on living in the 12th century? The sooner you get rid of religion, the better.

--
HawkinsOS, total pwnage.

Re:Hmmm

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah that really worked well in the soviet union didn't it? Oh wait...

Well, they really were happy with all the freedom they enjoyed under godless socialism eh? Oh wait...

No thank you. I'm sure many non-fanatical atheists also prefer to live peacefully among believers than they would under your atheist's utopian regime/dictatorship.

Re:Hmmm

[geminidomino]

Daemons, please. Not devils. *BSD takes your sanity, not your soul. ;)

Re:Hmmm

[Tony Hoyle]

Yes this gideon bloke keeps leaving his behind in the hotels I visit.

Damn forgetfull, if you ask me....

Re:Hmmm

[MikeXpop]

Yes. They decided the devil was a little too risque, so they all decided on a more subtle, politically friendlier logo.

Re:Hmmm

[identity0]

Well, I know I'd never wear a shirt with the old logo on it, that's for sure. For those wondering what the old logo was, it's this thing. It had a few problems.

1) The ambiguously gay devils - no, scratch that, the flaming homosexual devils writhing naked to raise a 'flagpole'. Whoever drew this thing spent an awful lot of time drawing the fine muscles and bulging abs of those very 'horny' devils. They also all appear to be in various stages of sexual climax, and some of their 'tails' appear to be going from one's butt to another's crotch, as if it's something else...

2) As others have noted, the BSD daemons are mimicking the famous 'Iwo Jima' picture of the Marines raising the flag. Putting devils in the place of the Marines could be seen as disrespectful to veterans by some, while others might see it as glorifying war.

3) They appear to be stomping on and destroying a whole bunch of computers. Parts are littered about as if discarded, and some of the screens look like they were smashed because of the shading.

So in short, the old logo gave the impression that this 'NetBSD' thing was a militantly demonic anti-American homosexual cult dedicated to destroying computers.

It's a shame they changed it, it fit them perfectly.

Re:Hmmm

[Smurf]

Yes! I agree with you 100% and I apologize for my mistake. I used the wrong word because the grandparent post talked about "BSD devils", but I should have corrected that detail.

Now all those daemons are going to torment me with their tridents for eternity, specially Hexley (who is actually a platypus, but whatever).

Re:Hmmm

[SignificantBit]

Maybe they were threated to be included on the Axis of Evil.

Re:Hmmm

[Anonymous Coward]

What the fuck? The Soviet Union collapsed because they didn't believe in god?

Re:Hmmm

[JoeShmoe950]

Its good to see that you have lots of supporting evidence. I just love the way you actually prove that religion is false. I put even more trust in you, in the way that you actually make it obvious that real or not, religion is a bad thing. Thank you for being so imformative. You obviously have vote now, INFIDEL!

Re:Hmmm

[Anonymous Coward]

So just because you say you have seen this bible, I am supposed to believe in it? Never! The bible is like the tooth fairy! It doesnt exist!

Re:Hmmm

[IoN_PuLse]

godless socialism?!?!? Government has something to do with religion?

Re:Hmmm

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude, that's funny. I wonder how many fucktwats will waste mod points modding you down. Talk about ANTI-religious zealots.

Re:Hmmm

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks for the clarification there, Mr. Reagan.

Re:Hmmm

[Anonymous Coward]

Synonyms for daemon: demon, devil (thesauris.com)

Re:Hmmm

[marcovje]

It is not a devil, but a daemon :-)

Re:Hmmm

[Anonymous Coward]

Communism just changed the objects of worship. They merely changed "the opium for the people" to "heroin".

Now give me three Hail Marys, three Long Live The Central Committee, three Allahu Akbar, and three Heil Hitlers. Amen.

Re:Hmmm

[geminidomino]

Tridents? Hah!

Those daemons are going to torment you for eternity in much subtler ways...

Beware ere ye peer into /var/log/messages, and abandon all hope!

Re:Hmmm

[famebait]

So in short, the old logo gave the impression that this 'NetBSD' thing was a militantly demonic anti-American homosexual cult dedicated to destroying computers.

Yes?

Re:Hmmm

[legirons]

"They decided the devil was a little too risqué"

Someone inform these guys!

Logo Contest

[base_chakra]

Well, this was a long time coming, but I'm really pleased with the new logo. For a while I was wondering if the long delay meant that all the contest submissions were rubbish! In case you're wondering, the official reason for the long processing time was twofold: 1) the selection process (of course), and 2) the legal transfer of the logo from the artist to the NetBSD Foundation.

A month ago this item appeared in the NetBSD Quarterly Status Report:

"As announced in the last quarterly status report, the NetBSD Project has reviewed all of the entries submitted to the international competition for the creation of a new logo. Members of the NetBSD Foundation voted for the new logo from a short-list of six submitted designs selected by the logo committee. Characteristics important for the new logo were simplicity, appealing form and color choice, and dentification with the project.

"At this point, a new logo has been selected the last formal step -- the process of transferring the Intellectual Property from the artist to the NetBSD Foundation (which includes the time-consuming but important careful review of some legal documents by a lawyer to ensure that everything is done correctly and appropriately) -- is virtually completed. Updating the website and creating imagery from the master copy are the last steps that need to be resolved. It is unfortunate that this procedure has delayed the official announcement of the new logo even further; the NetBSD Project would like to thank all users for their patience."

Re:Logo Contest

[wotevah]

It's nice that even we bought into the "Intellectual property" term.

What is the signifigance?

[Beautyon]

Of putting a snake's tounge at the end of a pool cue?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!

Re:What is the signifigance?

[Anonymous Coward]

What is the significance of your post?

favicon?

[dankelley]

What will the favicon look like? The logo is nice, but work will have to be done to simplify the fine elements of the design, so that they don't turn to fuzz in small versions of the image.

Re:favicon?

[base_chakra]

What will the favicon look like? The logo is nice, but work will have to be done to simplify the fine elements of the design, so that they don't turn to fuzz in small versions of the image.

Probably just the flag. Logos that have both text and graphical elements are often reduced to graphical emblems for certain purposes. The flag should scale to 16x16 with relative ease.

Re:favicon?

[NoMoreNicksLeft]

I hope they work quickly, my awstats icon is already stale. All 3 hits with it in the last year. ;)

Not bad

[Pros_n_Cons]

It's alittle plain, I like the BSD devil too, but RedHat's Shadowman is my favorite logo.

Re:Not bad

[sydb]

A little plain?? Logos are supposed to be plain. Take a moment and look at some memorable logos. They're generally very, very, simple. This makes them easy to associate with the product. It helps build the brand.

If only more Free Software projects would follow the lead of NetBSD. There are a lot of decent logos out there too but by and large Free Software logos constitute strong evidence that Graphic Design is indeed a valuable skill. Not as valuable as coding, but still valuable.

Specifically, it's not about technical prowess in using your favourite graphics program, it's about being able to come up with strong ideas and express them strikingly, visually.

Not that I'm any good at it...

Re:Not bad

[Anonymous Coward]

That Hurd logo youn linked to is much simpler than the new NetBSD one. It might not be any good, but that's another matter entirely.

Re:Not bad

[sydb]

I don't know if I agree, the directed graph is fussy and asymmetrical in a way that makes it more complicated. But there are certainly fussier logos.

Re:Not bad

[Artemis]

Except the Motorola logo could seemingly be confused with Macromedia or Bacardi. Maybe moreso Bacardi than Macromedia, but the stylistic shaping of the M looks very similar. This is why another critical characteristic of a logo is uniqueness

Re:Not bad

[Anonymous Coward]

Except the Motorola logo could seemingly be confused with Macromedia or Bacardi.

I think that it's possible that Motorola realized this problem, so they decided to raise brand awareness. They seem to have bribed the NFL to force all of its coaches to wear those dorky headphones with earpieces the size of dinner plates, with giant Motorola bat logos plastered on the side.

Now whenever I see the logo, I certainly don't think of rum or crappy websites; I just think of big clunky ugly head gear.

Re:Not bad

[Pros_n_Cons]

Just doesn't seem as creative to me thats what I ment by plain. No mistaking BMW, RedHat or Apple, Windows, Sun, etc.

Albeit?

[isomeme]

The logo was selected out of over 400 submissions in an albeit lengthy process

Anybody have a clue what the word 'albeit' is doing in there?

Obligatory Tired Cliché!

[The-Bus]

Netcraft confirms! The old NetBSD logo is dead!

Re:Obligatory Tired Cliché!

[benna]

is "Tired Cliché" one?

Re:Obligatory Tired Cliché!

[zoeith]

Parent is not a troll please. S/he said the *logo* is dead ... not NetBSD.

New Logo

[Nikkos]

The new logo looks very clean and professional. However, I would have liked to see a logo that continued on with the "team" aspect of the old logo.

It's not the name or the flag that makes NetBSD what it is, it's the people behind it. Unfortunatly that's what was taken out of the logo.

Finally they've raisen the flag.

[Anonymous Coward]

Time for them to recognize the defeat against other OSes.

We accept your surrender.

Re:Finally they've raisen the flag.

[sydb]

I won't celebrate until they've sultana the flag.

old logo was hideous

[Anonymous Coward]

hopefully the new logo will cause Linus to abandon Linux and work on NetBSD.

Re:old logo was hideous

[BawbBitchen]

God, I hope not. I do not want a kernel as messy as the Linux one to get mixed into the cleanness that is *BSD.

Re:old logo was hideous

[Anonymous Coward]

LOL.

Thus spoke the BSD zealot that hasn't looked at linux in the last 10 years and still judges it by v0.99 standards.

Re:old logo was hideous

[Anonymous Coward]

So, did they ever made a complete code auditing, cleaning up all the sources? naaaah. i.e. in the past ten years the sources got only more and more bloated, but not cleaner at all.

Re:old logo was hideous

[Anonymous Coward]

Which part of the Linux development process do you mean? The 2.4 VM fiasco? Or all the security problems found in 2.6? It's getting better now that IBM/Intel/SGI are putting real engineers to work on it. There's still a lot of code in the Linux kernel that is simply a piece of shit.

--
HawkinsOS, enterprise ready, today.

Re:old logo was hideous

[BawbBitchen]

Nope. Hate to disappoint you but I have a system running Gentoo with the 2.4 and 2.6 kernels. I also have a Ultra 2 running Solaris 10B63, a SS5 running OpenBSD3.6 and a file server running OpenBSD3.6. I am typing this from my iBook. (Oh, there is an Amiga on the back desk to, next to the Commodore 128D!) I have used Linux on systems since SLS. I keep coming back to BSD because for me it as a cleaner simpler design. I full install of Linux (Redhat, Fedora, SUSE) has become more bloated then an Windows 2K3 server install!

I like the simple, vi KERNEL, make clean && make depend && make for a BSD customer kernel. Not to mention that the ports setup of BSD (el. al.) beats any Linux package setup anyday. (Oh, know here come the rabi-Debian fans). Gentoo is closest in my book for a clean Linux install (then Slakware). Yet, I still hate the part were I get to the kernel config.

Simple is better.

an albeit lengthy process?

[bwy]

You keep using that word. I don't think that you know what it means.

Hint- if you've used it right, you should be able to substitute something like "although."

How freaking dumb does "an although lengthy process" sound? Another hint. To an educated person, "an albeit lengthy process" sounds just as dumb. It sounds like someone trying to sound smarter than they actually are.

Re: an albeit lengthy process?

[isomeme]

I can't help wondering what they thought it meant. What actual idea were they trying to convey? I'm drawing a blank on likely substitute words.

Re: an albeit lengthy process?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm drawing a blank on likely substitute words.

"acromulently"?

Re: an albeit lengthy process?

[nacturation]

How about "albeit, a lengthy process..."? That makes sense and could have just been somebody mixing the words up.

Re: an albeit lengthy process?

[Anonymous Coward]

How freaking dumb does "an although lengthy process" sound? Another hint. To an educated person, "an albeit lengthy process" sounds just as dumb. It sounds like someone trying to sound smarter than they actually are.

You must be pretty young and inexperienced with people, or only hang around with people with basic literacy (except for when you're on slashdot).

This is the way that most people "learn" language, especially those that don't read. People pick up on the usage of others. Sometimes this causes interesting transformations. "albeit" in this case came from this person hearing things like "The winning egg salad sandwich was chosen in a fair, albeit complicated process". and thinking that "albeit" must be some kind of fancy modifier or intensifier that smart people use. "Very lengthy" becomes "albeit lengthy".

My personal pet peeve is "for all intensive purposes".

There are thousands more examples of this. This is so common that there is a word for it: malapropism. This word dates back to a play from the 18th century, where improper word usage was the basis for one of the characters, named Mrs. Malaprop.

The most grating thing about this is that these illiterate buffoons invariably explain to you that the "langauge's is evolving" and you're just being an anal pedant and need to "get a life".
This doesn't bother me, because by definition anyone who tells you or someone else that they need to "get a life" needs to get a life themself [sic] if they are so worried about other people needing a life. The old thing about rubber and glue is completely applicable in this case.

One somewhat stereotypical attribute about a certain lot of pedants is that they constantly complain about the decay of language as being some sign of the times, as if it were something that just started occuring in this current, wicked generation. Clearly this class of pedants are no more well read then their slack jawed counterparts. Shakespeare contains numerous intentional malapropisms used amongst the less educated characters. The British are very much attuned to this as command of language has traditionally been used as an indicator of socio-economic status.
I constantly remind people that I am NOT in this inferior class of language pedants. People say I am very pedantic about my pedantry.

Re: an albeit lengthy process?

[civilizedINTENSITY]

"all be it"

Re: an albeit lengthy process?

[arodland]

No, that doesn't make sense. Try substituting it in. Albeit introduces some sort of contrast, like a fancy "but" or "although". For example, "carbon is compressed into diamond in a simple, albeit lengthy, process." But if the summary was trying to say something like that, then it would have the spirit of "they had to pick from a lot of candidates, but the process was lengthy". Oh yeah. Real suspense there. There's no call for albeit at all. It just doesn't work.

Re: an albeit lengthy process?

[Clueless Moron]

My personal pet peeve is "for all intensive purposes".

Well, that's a whole new level of confusion, because it's an entire phrase that's being misunderstood rather than just a single word. The phrase (as you know) is "for all intents and purposes", which makes perfect sense, while "intensive purposes" is utter nonsense.

That said, I think "for all intents and purposes" is not a phrase that should be used at all. It's a cliche. Empty calories in a good sentence.

Personally I think I'd be happy if people just stopped confusing "lose" and "loose".

Not cool enough

[systems]

Personally I am very disapointed
The logo is not cool, not artistic, not insipiring, not anything ...
I really like what OpenBSD did, they know how to play with their logo, I believe this speaks a lot about the attitude of the people behind the project.
And it says, that they like and want to have fun!
NetBSD have made a terrible statement by this logo, this logo declares in my opinion that the NetBSD is not about fun anymore!
I seriously can't imagine a worst logo ...

Re:Not cool enough

[Anonymous Coward]

How about a vurst logo?
Logovurst. Yum.
It's a patte with little letters in it like alphabet soup turned into a delightfully flavorful cracker spread.

Re:Not cool enough

[Zoko Siman]

There is always... this http://www.lilik.it/~michelefi/files/images/micro/ Bill_Nazi.jpg

Re:Not cool enough

[david duncan scott]

Really? In the land of goatsex man, you can't imagine a worse logo? (shudder) How I envy you...

Re:Not cool enough

[david duncan scott]

I think you meant this.

Re:Not cool enough

[gustgr]

I didn't like it either. I think the logo should show in some way that NetBSD is very portable and it can run on almost every plataform.

Re:Not cool enough

[Anonymous Coward]

Send patches or shut the fuck up.

--
HawkinsOS, kicking Smorgreff in the ass since 2004.

Re:Not cool enough

[MyDixieWrecked]

I seriously can't imagine a worst logo ...

you can't? how about a window on acid? rainbow colors, trails, and all... mmmmm, windows...

Re:Not cool enough

[Lisandro]

Seriously. The new logo looks great and has a "corporate" feel all over it, but the old demon (daemon?) was just too cute, and something you'd associate immediatly with *BSD. The one with the demons lifting the flag was too hard to reproudce though.

I just though the demon would appear in some way in the new logo.

Re:Not cool enough

[l0rd]

I thought I was the only one reading the replies.

The new logo definately isn't cool. Come on people, Open source projects aren't selling products. They don't have to appeal to brain dead managers.

Open Source is about creating free for all solutions for problems. Everyone's problems, not just your bosses.

I think that, considering the nature of the project, a wrong logo was chosen. It's lame and NOT cool. It also isn't playful in any way. This is something I'd expect from microsoft or redhat, not from a bsd OS. Very dissapointed, to say the least...

Re:Not cool enough

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

The OpenBDS puffer fish is a good mascot, but a poor logo. It's not simple (infact it seems to change), and doesn't really symbolise anything, with the possible exception of security.

Fun? I though NetBSD was about secure computer systems that run on many platforms? Why would they want a symbol that promotes fun? Are they going to change into an entertainment company? Aren't the mascots supposed to be the "fun" side of a organisations symbolism?

OSS has come of age

[mollusk]

Finally, proof that the OSS community can produce something as generic, uninspired, and forgettable as even the best corporate marketroids. I can't wait for the upcoming Apache Mission Statement contest. ("embiggens a dynamic paradigm in scalable infotecture")

Seriously, is this the best that was submitted? Not trying to flame, but the best feature of a logo is a unique image that's easily remembered. Looking at the NetBSD logo I'm not sure if I'm installing an OS or playing in a CTF clan.

Note to the judges, If the text in your logo needs to be readable to identify your product, it's not a good logo.

Re:OSS has come of age

[ChairmanMeow]

("embiggens a dynamic paradigm in scalable infotecture")

That's a perfectly cromulent statement...

Shadowman has been identified as!

[Anonymous Coward]

Did you know the Shadowman is an ex-sco employee!

NetBSD Devils != WWII Soldiers

[miket]

As a member of the US Air National Guard I don't like the devils raising the NetBSD flag in the likeness of World War II soldiers raising the Unites States flag over Iwo Jima. I hold the sacrifice of my grandfather's generation sacred.

Re:NetBSD Devils != WWII Soldiers

[zentex]

As a member of the US Air National Guard I don't like the devils raising the NetBSD flag in the likeness of World War II soldiers raising the Unites States flag over Iwo Jima.

Some Soldier you are! If you were better educated, you would know those "World War II Soldiers" were infact U.S. Marines.

err...your only a guardsman, sorry to hold you to higher standards ;-)

I was going to moderate you as flambait, but I felt compelled to set you straight; as my Grandfather was *ON* that island.

Anyways, the previous logo was meant to convey the fact that NetBSD has "conquered" almost all hardware; nothing more. Don't be an idiot.

Re:NetBSD Devils != WWII Soldiers

[Anonymous Coward]

Score: 1, Funny.

Why is this rated funny? I completely agree. I'm not American myself, but I always did think that the old NetBSD logo trivialized something so important and meaningful, ofcourse no bad intentions were ever meant by it, but I never appreciated it.

Re:NetBSD Devils != WWII Soldiers

[Fnkmaster]

Likewise here - my grandfather was a Marine and was on Iwo Jima when the 4th and 5th Marines invaded. I take their sacrifices extremely seriously too, but I think that image has become such a part of the cultural millieu for victory it's hard to hold it as inviolate.

If the image were being used in a way that mocked the sacrifices of the Marines in WWII, then I would understand finding it offensive.

In any case, there were more than enough other things wrong with that old logo to justify trashing it and I'm glad they did. The new logo is an improvement, even if it is a bit bland.

Re:NetBSD Devils != WWII Soldiers

[Anonymous Coward]

If you were better educated...your only a guardsman

Oh the irony.

Re:NetBSD Devils != WWII Soldiers

[Anonymous Coward]

Because GP was making fun of idiots like you.

Re:NetBSD Devils != WWII Soldiers

[jeepmeister]

As a devout military supporter, as a veteran myself, as the son of a WWII vet and the father of a US Navy sailor, I too was slightly offended by the trivialization of the raising of the flag over Iwo as characterized by the NetBSD demons; although I have enough brains to understand they probably meant no harm and intended no insult. Your unimaginative and immature posting however, profoundly disturbs me. Unless you're a Japanese national, or your own relatives were of Axis national origin, you owe a personal debt of gratitude to those who defended civilized society in uncivilized times by giving up their lives in defence of liberty, truth, justice and the human condition. You obviously fail to recognize your own place in history; and I'm embarrassed for you. On the other hand, there may possibly be a more rational explaination for your obnoxious behavior; perhaps you're French?

Re:NetBSD Devils != WWII Soldiers

[fuck_this_shit]

And I was slightly troubled by their identification through that logo with american militarism.

Re:NetBSD Devils != WWII Soldiers

[Anonymous Coward]

and, the raising is staged (or rather "re-performed") for the photograph.

Re:NetBSD Devils != WWII Soldiers

[pnot]

Your unimaginative and immature posting however, profoundly disturbs me... On the other hand, there may possibly be a more rational explaination for your obnoxious behavior; perhaps you're French?

Nice, well-reasoned post, until the final sentence revealed you to be just as unimaginative and immature as the poster to whom you were replying.

Re:NetBSD Devils != WWII Soldiers

[Anonymous Coward]

that was funny as shit

lol

Re:NetBSD Devils != WWII Soldiers

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm embarrassed for you. On the other hand, there may possibly be a more rational explaination for your obnoxious behavior; perhaps you're French?

While I don't disagree with most of your post, being french and having lost some of my family during WWII, I do feel embarrased for you and your last comment. If you want to show your righteousness, please look at yourself first, then critize others.

Re:NetBSD Devils != WWII Soldiers

[Digi-John]

While your irritation is understandable, you violated a basic rule of Slashdot: Never reply to an Anonymous Coward, especially if the post is an obvious troll. A quick look can usually sort the idiots from the rare ACs worth reading or replying to.

Note the overuse of a certain offensive word. Also note that he calls the parent, a supporter of the U.S. military, a Nazi. Even a short post such as the one in question can provide an easy guide to the poster.

By the way, not all the French are obnoxious... to gain the respect of the other denizens of Slashdot, avoid making those kind of generalizations. Better to say stuff like "Windoze suxors!"

Re:NetBSD Devils != WWII Soldiers

[Brandybuck]

Hmmm, you do know that the famous flag raising photo was *staged*? You know that, don't you?

Re:NetBSD Devils != WWII Soldiers

[danimrich]

The act of raising a flag has been depicted on numerous occasions in history, e.g. on a famous painting from the 18th/19th century (can't remember the painter). It's not necessarily a reference to WW2.

Re:NetBSD Devils != WWII Soldiers

[miket]

Some Soldier you are! If you were better educated, you would know those "World War II Soldiers" were infact U.S. Marines.

If I understand what you are saying then, according to you, a US Marine is not a soldier. I disagree with this. I know they are Marines.

your only a guardsman, sorry to hold you to higher standards

I don't know what standards you use but I am required to maintain the same level of readiness and profeciency as the active duty Air Force (but don't get to practice every day), not to mention that every day I work someone trusts me, in part, with his or her life. I believe that those are pretty high standards.

my Grandfather was *ON* that island

I hold your grandfather and all the men and women who fought in that war in the highest respect. My grandfater fought in Europe.

Anyways, the previous logo was meant to convey the fact that NetBSD has "conquered" almost all hardware; nothing more. Don't be an idiot.

This is something that I never new. So that would make me not an idiot, but ignorant. I appreciate you educating me but find your tone to be hightly disrespectful. And that is a shame.

I was going to moderate you as flambait, but I felt compelled to set you straight

I did not intend to draw flames, I just stated my opinion. I didn't realize this was such a hot topic for so many people (well, at least one person). Since I did not blatently attack anyone for no reason and with no factual backing I fail to see how my comment was flamebait. Just because you choose to respond in an inflamatory manner does not make my comment flaimbait. I just felt compelled to set you straight.

Re:NetBSD Devils != WWII Soldiers

[miket]

I can say this, given the tone of the responses to my message coupled with the fact that my comment was rated "Funny" has caused me to loose a great deal of respect for the slashdot community.

To those of you out there who are tolerant of other people's positions, I apologize that you find yourself associated with a group such as this.

Re:NetBSD Devils != WWII Soldiers

[Anonymous Coward]

Not necessarily, but in this case it is.

Re:NetBSD Devils != WWII Soldiers

[PitaBred]

It was rated funny to keep you from getting as much karma from it.
They didn't want you to get karma because it was a knee-jerk reaction on your part, and a rather stupid one at that. I suppose the mods don't care if you LOSE respect for the community.
One can only be offended if one chooses to be so. Perhaps you should simply lighten up and take it at face value. It wasn't meant as a belittling of that accomplishment in any way, shape or form.
But then again, that's America for you. BTW, I'm offended that you didn't know the real facts of the marines raising the flag, miket. I am 'loosing' respect for you. (that was irony coupled with sarcasm, for those of you who didn't get it)

Re:NetBSD Devils != WWII Soldiers

[Brandybuck]

Who the hell marked this as "troll"? Get your freaking facts straight before you start marking stuff down!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raising_the_Flag_on _I wo_Jima

Re:NetBSD Devils != WWII Soldiers

[EllynGeek]

Tolerant? Of what, idiocy? Oh wait, this is Slashdot, where idiocy is required. Anyway I am definitely not tolerant of your finding the staged photo of raising the flag at Iwo Jima sacred, and somehow turning that into an attack on the NetBSD logo. The "funny" mod is appropriate, 'cause how can that be taken seriously?

Re:NetBSD Devils != WWII Soldiers

[lost_it]

Who the hell marked this as "troll"? Get your freaking facts straight before you start marking stuff down!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raising_the_Flag_on_I wo_Jima

I almost modded you as a troll (because there is no moderation titled "misinformative"), but since you'd probably just think I was an ignorant moderator, I'll explain why you are wrong.

According to that wikipedia page (which agrees with every other account I've heard), the flag depicted is not the first flag raised on Iwo Jima. The colonel of the battalion that owned the first flag was afraid of it being stolen by someone else for a souvenir, so the colonel arranged for the battalion's flag to be replaced with a second flag.

All of the above information is in your link. The text in the link does not claim or suggest that the picture was staged. The rest of this post is what I've heard elsewhere.

A photographer for the Associated Press, Joe Rosenthal, heard that the first flag was to be replaced, and realized that he would get a second chance to photograph such a historic event. He made sure he was present when the second flag was being raised, and took the picture.

Thus the photograph is not of the initial flag raising, but it is not "staged".

Re:NetBSD Devils != WWII Soldiers

[Brandybuck]

...and realized that he would get a second chance to photograph such a historic event.

A "second chance" at history? While we may quibble over the definition of "staged", that photograph has been erroneous portrayed for the last fifty years as the initial flag raising event.

But be that as it may, I'm still distressed that the Slashdot population would so quickly mod my post down as "troll". Did I offend someone? Since when has Slashdot modded down misinformation? Heck, most of the time it gets modded up!

Re:NetBSD Devils != WWII Soldiers

[Anonymous Coward]

Personally, I wouldn't get too offended. They probably did think you were being sarcastic and weren't trying to insult you or belittle your comment. However, quite honestly, I don't think it makes the moderator look too good if he or she just cannot understand your sentiment. And if he or she really was trying to insult you then it definitely makes them look worse.

Re:NetBSD Devils != WWII Soldiers

[Anonymous Coward]

Mod parent up. I don't think anyone could have worded that better.

Re:NetBSD Devils != WWII Soldiers

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's an idea : go and do something worthy of respect yourself, instead of spending all your time on the internet talking about how great your ancestors were.

Your granddad would toss your whiny ass off that computer and tell you to go make something of yourself.

Re:NetBSD Devils != WWII Soldiers

[miket]

Alright, after reading the responses to my postings I understand the reason for the modding and hae come to agree. But I would like to make a few last points:

1) Nothing I posted in my origonal post was factually incorrect. US Marines are soldiers. I never said that photo was an action shot taken during combat, I knew then and know now that the scene was recreated.

2) I did not say that I hold the photograph itself sacred, but the sacrafice of my grandfather's generation.

3) I did not fly off the handle and I did not use the word "offended" when refering to the BSD logo. My post was not a flame. I am obviously more sensitive to issues such as theres that the general Slashdot community and I see no problem with that.

4) Most of all I am dissapointed with the flames that I received for posting my comment. I still do not understand what about my post brought on such flames.

Good night.

Re:NetBSD Devils != WWII Soldiers

[Anonymous Coward]

Nothing about the old NetBSD ``trivialises'' the sacrifices of our grandfather's generation.

If nothing else, using the image to convey that NetBSD is liberating computer hardware (as the image was originally intended) is paying homage to the US Marines in Iwo Jima. After all, why choose that image if it were not so obvious what it means?

Mirror

[Rufus211]

I think the new logo looks quite nice. Very simple and stylish. Since the site is somewhat slow loading, I threw up a mirror including the large versions.

Re:Mirror

[Distortions]

On my connection your mirror is much slower.
The large PNG would not even finish loading.

I think the new logo is much better than the old one.
But, I think it much too plain. Keep the same idea but add something memorable.

I'm not sure I'm convinced ...

[Kaemaril]

I don't know, it just seems a little ... bland and generic. Looking at it, if you removed "NetBSD" and substituted virtually any short word or phrase it could just as easily be the logo of a political party, or a company that makes ... well, practically anything, really. It seems ... personality free.

Still, YMMV and all that.

Re:I'm not sure I'm convinced ...

[Anonymous Coward]

Same with Tux, the Linux penguin, which could be used by a political party as well.
This seems to have tradition in the US anyway, with the donkey and the elephant - so why not a penguin party?

Re:I'm not sure I'm convinced ...

[Anonymous Coward]

So my mileage may vary with...looking at the logo? The amount of performance that I may or may not get with something has nothing to do with my opinion of it.

Its a Crusade!!

[ElitistWhiner]

... this looks so faith based.

the contest, months of waiting... for THAT?

[ArbitraryConstant]

I'm sorry, but it's really hard to get excited about that logo. Seems to me they wanted to be so neutral, so inoffensive to everyone in the entire world that they picked a logo that means nothing.

That sound you hear is millions of geeks the world over saying "meh".

Re:the contest, months of waiting... for THAT?

[Anonymous Coward]

That sound you hear is millions of geeks the world over saying "meh".

The six of us BSD users aren't that loud.

Re:the contest, months of waiting... for THAT?

[buddha42]

I'm sorry, but it's really hard to get excited about that logo. Seems to me they wanted to be so neutral, so inoffensive to everyone in the entire world that they picked a logo that means nothing.

It's classic design-by-commitie. er... I'm sorry I meant "open development process"

Re:the contest, months of waiting... for THAT?

[Anonymous Coward]

So... where can I see these other 399 logos that were not as good as this (piece of crap)? Considering that as part of the contest you had to sign it over to the netbsd foundation, the artists themselves can't even display them anymore.

Re:the contest, months of waiting... for THAT?

[ralinx]

surely you ment hundreds of geeks... let's not get carried away :)

Re:the contest, months of waiting... for THAT?

[Anonymous Coward]

Send patches or shut the fuck up, KTHX.

--
HawkinsOS, kicking Smorgreff in the ass since 2004.

better logo, yes

[Anonymous Coward]

But I still haven't forgiven the NetBSD team for the way they treated Theo DeRaadt. He was basically forced out because of the huge egos in the NetBSD core team.

Re:better logo, yes

[Anonymous Coward]

There's also Thorsten Glaser's MirOS which is not more than an ego-pushing thing too.

Re:better logo, yes

[MetalliQaZ]

"He was basically forced out because of the huge egos in the NetBSD core team"

Ridiculous! Who could have a bigger ego than Theo??

Re:better logo, yes

[Anonymous Coward]

Dixitur illum scribere Anonymous Coward

--
HawkinsOS, kicking Smorgreff in the ass since 2004.

Re:better logo, yes

[Anonymous Coward]

Except that we're not interested in your silly patch. No go away because the grownups have work to do.

Re:better logo, yes

[Big Mark]

I've been keeping an eye on DragonFly for a while. It's basic premise is to take several concepts from the still-not-quite-dead-yet AmigaOS, add in some new ideas for good measure, and hack them into the BSD core, all for the simple reason of Just Because. The project leader's a noted ex-Amiga developer, which explains the Amiga influence.

It's kernel is a hybrid monolith/microkernel design, which apparently has the least disadvantages.

Re:better logo, yes

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, BSD and Amiga combined into one! My dream OS!
-- Cnt. Dracula.

Yuk

[Space cowboy]

Blandness incarnate. Sorry guys/gals, I'm sure everyone put a lot of effort into it, and you'll never please all the people all the time, but it looks like a political-party logo to me, or possibly a mega-conglomerate corporate logo.

I guess if, as a brand, you're all trying to move up-market - say, to distinguish yourselves from those upstart linux rabble [grin], then it'll work just fine. In my case, my eyes would automatically shift to [next topic], but then I'm not a corporate clone, so I guess it's doing its job.

Just to be non-PC for a second, some people have far too much time on their hands - the old image was cute, easily recognised, and daemons (note the 'a') have a long and distinguished history in Unix. My Oxford english dictionary defines 'daemon' as:

• An inner or attendant spirit; a genius (the daemon of creativity)
  
• A supernatural being in ancient greece
  

... which is a *little* different to how it defines 'demon' (lots of definitions - basically really nasty thing you don't want to meet in a dark alley. Or anywhere.) Interestingly, the online dictionaries tend to blur the meaning a bit more...

I take the point in the requirements about it being complex - hard to render at low resolutions etc, but to reject the whole idea of a cute daemon just because some people can't handle that there is no god (hey, I said I was going to be non-PC, you knew it was coming :-) seems to be cutting off your nose to spite your face...

Simon.

Re:Yuk

[Anonymous Coward]

some people can't handle that there is no god (hey, I said I was going to be non-PC, you knew it was coming :-) If non-pc means closed to alternative possibilities of an unknowable realm, you did it!

Re:Yuk

[Anonymous Coward]

If non-pc means closed to alternative possibilities of an unknowable realm, you did it!

Yeah, I bet he doesn't believe in the tooth fairy either. Closed minded buffoon.

Re:Yuk

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, if string theory is correct, and we really exist in more than 4 dimensions (3+time), then who the heck knows whats out there?

I personally like to think we're in some test tube with some BGBEM (big green bug-eyed monster) poking around here and there to screw things up now and then. But who knows.

Re:Yuk

[Slack3r78]

Meh, I can't say I agree with you at all. Personally, I have a strong sense of cynicism about the world and the power of big business, but I refuse to see "corporate" as a dirty word as many Slashdotters do.

I also see a distinction between "corporate" and "professional," myself. While corporate generally implies professional, professional does not necessarily mean corporate. It's entirely possible to have a professional looking logo while retaining a free thinking attitude.

The whole point of this logo is that it *doesn't* look like some kid sketched it in the margin of his notes during class. It doesn't look like the programmer took 5 minutes away from hacking source to apply his minimal artistic ability to throwing together a logo just because he needed one. It can be the difference between someone feeling comfortable enough to give your project a try or ignoring it. Your logo represents your project, and if it looks like it was slapped together in 5 minutes, people are going to assume that a simliar amount of effort was put into the code, rightfully so or not.

*Professional* logos look the way they do not because the thing they represent is cold and souless, but because a well designed logo should be easy to reproduce, scale, xerox all day long and remain recognizable. If it's simple, it's easier for people to recognize, which makes it easier to remember whatever it represents. If this offends your hacker sensibillities, I'm sorry. To me this is just a good example of why most hackers are poor graphic and UI designers.

Re:Yuk

[Anonymous Coward]

the old image was cute, easily recognized, and daemons (note the 'a') have a long and distinguished history in Unix

Since when has using a logo likely to offend a specific audience been considered a good policy? (note the demon images)

I don't like this logo, here is why

[cjmckenzie]

It has been coming for a while now - the end of the anarchy - the end of the tightly knit communities of hackers with criminal records. Like the commercialization of 60's leftism through a lucrative popular culture, the free software movement is starting to lose its roots. The flag is too polished. It's too professional. It basically makes me think that I am looking at evilcorp.com. This is not what free software is supposed to be about - it's supposed to be about things like EFF, stallman, nogifs, sokol, etc - not about appealing to corporate monery mongering beauracrats. It's perfectly fine with me if it stays fringe - in fact, the downfall of freebsd is its mainstream-ness . . .

Re:I don't like this logo, here is why

[schleyfox]

I can definitely see your point, and I am not thrilled about the new logo but your post makes it seem as though opensource things cannot be proffesional or polished. Open Source will still work, but it will have to make room for large corporations. I am not sure this is a good thing, but it isnt nescesarily a bad thing. If it makes the developers happy then by all means they can use their new spiffy logo.

Re:I don't like this logo, here is why

[sydb]

The point is, infiltrate and subvert. You can't do that wearing flares and round-rimmed spectacles, you need a sharp suit.

A lot of the hippies from the 60s became the rich bankers, accountants and lawyers of the 80s. Fortunately, the goodness of Free Software is enshrined in the licenses.

I was going to say something rude there about BSD versus GPL but that would have been inflammatory.

Re:I don't like this logo, here is why

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

Oh great. Another complete idiot who things that a logo with a little professionalism means the end of the world.

Fine. You can stick with your complex, crappy, pencil-sketch logos that have nothing to do with communities or grass-roots efforts.

If anything, this wave of professionalism that seems to be sweeping through some parts of the OSS community (FireFox etc), just goes to show the strength that the community has; it's no longer a just a small group of nerds bumming around any more.

Sigh.

[arcade]

Not that the logo makes a difference when it comes to the OS (which I absolutely love. NetBSD is one of my favorite OSs) - but I think the new logo sucks.

I loved the look of the old one. The BSD daemons scrambling to raise their banner. It gave me a nice feel.

Now we've got this .. flag .. and nothing more. It doesn't tell me anything. It's got no feelings, no 'struggle', no cooperation .. and no _daemons_.

But sure.. it's clean looking .. but .. I really don't care about that.

Bad choice, imho.

Re:Sigh.

[Anonymous Coward]

nobody cares what you think.

orange and black

[justforaday]

Hey, it's got just the right colors for halloween!

Re:orange and black

[TuxMelvin]

And I'm not sure they're the right colors for anything else!

your sig

[EnormousTooth]

It's +++ATH0, as I recall, if you simply type ATH0, it has no effect on your modem. The +++ is the command escape sequence

Re:your sig

[EnormousTooth]

That should be a semicolon after "as I recall", my bad.
P.S. I thought I already replied and corrected it, but it isn't showing up, so...

Re:your sig

[Anonymous Coward]

It's +++ATH0, as I recall, if you simply type ATH0, it has no effect on your modem. The +++ is the command escape sequence

Most newer modems usually require the command escape sequence to be to be bracketed on both sides (before and after) by a delay that is usually more than 1000 character periods.

Re:your sig

[Anonymous Coward]

They all do that. The whole "AT" command set came from the Hayes modem company, and they always required about a second of silence before and after the +++. Their patent on that idea was one of the first geek-controversial lawsuits.

Anyway, instead of ATH0 it'd usually be better do to ATZ. That resets the whole modem, which includes hangup.

One Word

[maroberts]

Boring!!
It looks like the guys in suits won.

Congrats to the winner.

[Anthony Boyd]

I'm bummed that they didn't pick one of mine. But at least the flag has a creative idea behind it -- namely, keeping the tradition of the original logo alive a little bit.

Oh well. If any developers would like to claim those logos I made, I have SVG (and EPS, I think) versions lying around. I can send them on, possibly with a project name added in. There is a link at the bottom of my logo page that reads, "contact the webmaster." Use that if you're interested.

Re:Congrats to the winner.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm glad they didn't pick your logo, especially the orca one, don't orca eat penguins? You sick bastard.

Re:Congrats to the winner.

[The FooMiester]

I didn't notice the similarity in the logos until I saw them side by side. The thing that stood out most to me, I guess, is the pile of various hardware and the crowd being triumphant having conquered it. I can't really say that I noticed the flag all that much, but I know I must have known it was there.

And I've been using NetBSD for 3 or 4 years now

Re:Congrats to the winner.

[Anonymous Coward]

Your logos probably didn't get chosen because they're ass-ugly.

HTH HAND

Re:Congrats to the winner.

[sydb]

Your "one ring" rocks.

Re:Congrats to the winner.

[macshit]

I strongly agree -- the flag is boring and un-memorable. It feels generic.

Your (Anthony Boyd) suggested logos are much better; they have the requisite simplicity (they're even simpler than the flag), but are far more striking, and for a logo "striking" is a very good thing. The first two retain the daemon image people like and associate with *BSD, without being too overt about it (keep the fundies at bay). They also simply have a panache that is completely lacking from the flag logo.

I don't know WTF happened with the official selection process, but in these situations it often comes down to picking the choice everybody hates the least -- and nobody actually likes -- followed by a round of rah-rahing among supporters with everybody trying to convince themselves how much they like the new choice, while hiding their disappointment.

Not very inspiring guys. Whatever happened to the image of NetBSD as the branch of *BSD that doesn't compromise its ideals?

Re:Congrats to the winner.

[crimson30]

In a slashdot poll, I'm sure the ring logo could beat the lame flag they picked. Unfortunately, whoever judged submissions obviously had poor taste.

Re:Congrats to the winner.

[Anonymous Coward]

Agreed

Re:Congrats to the winner.

[strikethree]

I like your Bob the Orca logo. It is the best one you have there. I imagine Bob would scale well as an icon. It is also very memorable. I am not sure Bob is such a great name for a mascot though.

strike

nah

[Anonymous Coward]

I dont like it, the cute devil is ubiquitous and synonymous with BSD!

good logo, missing key history

[davidwr]

On its own, it's a good logo. Simple, spot-color, has name, has a key element (the flag).

However, by dropping the devil, it obscures its historical relation to other BSDs. This is A Bad Thing.

A small devil silloette somewhere in the logo would've eliminated this problem.

Some /.'ers have complained about the lack of "team" in the logo. The very presence of a pennant or flag suggests a team effort, at least in my eyes.

Re:good logo, missing key history

[Anonymous Coward]

However, by dropping the devil, it obscures its historical relation to other BSDs.

Sorry, but that's plain bullshit. They haven't changed their name, have they?

Re:good logo, missing key history

[Anonymous Coward]

You mean like OpenBSD and DragonFlyBSD?

--
HawkinsOS, kicking Smorgreff in the ass since 2004.

Everyone will forver associate linux with penguins

[Julian Morrison]

But will anyone look at a bland flaggy thing and think "NetBSD"? Meh.

Hint for the suits: if your logo could without alteration be applied to pretty much any category of business or thing, if it could be mistaken for a thousand similar logos, then it's too bland to mean anything or be memorable. Ie: it is unable to function properly as a logo.

But but but

[JavaRob]

I'm still trying to imagine a tattoo of a... flag. Or an attractive woman (sorry, can't find the link) in a... flag costume.

Nope. Still no good.

I understand the reasoning behind making a blander, more corporate logo, but it's kind of a sad change, nonetheless.

Re:But but but

[cavac]

Well, i'd say that merely depends on the amount of flag compared to the amount of woman. Let's see, take a 1 square-inch flag and...

Re:But but but

[ulib]

I'm still trying to imagine (...) an attractive woman (sorry, can't find the link) in a... flag costume.
What about an attractive woman in an orange bikini. :)

*laugh*

[TWX]

Thanks! I needed a laugh today...

Bob the Orca is cool

[ArbitraryConstant]

I'm not saying you deserved to win (as I'm sure there were hundreds of equally cool or cooler logos submitted), but you deserved to win a great deal more than the "flag of indifference".

NEVERMIND THAT; WHAT ABOUT....

[Anonymous Coward]

.. all getting together and building a damn kick ass Open source game engine then a REAL Tribes3 game to better the feeble attempt of tribes vengeance, now that would be worthy of news.

More links

[wikinerd]

Some more links:

• NerdyPC Report
• BSDnews.com Report
• NetBSD Homepage
• PNG image of the new logo
• JPEG image of the old logo
• List of all NetBSD logos

fyi

[Anonymous Coward]

punctuation goes inside quotes.

Re:fyi

[Anonymous Coward]

punctuation goes inside quotes.

Only if you're a dumb American.

Re:fyi

[Anonymous Coward]

You're right. You have to admit that's a pretty silly convention, though. I bet in ten years it'll be like starting a sentence with a preposition -- discouraged but acceptable.

Yay Internet.

Re:fyi

[rpdillon]

Actually, punctuation only goes inside quotes if the punctuation is in the quote (amazing, huh?) If you're quoting a fragment, then the punctuation goes outside the quotes.

I'm not a fan of being pedantic, but if you're going to be, at least be right.

Re:fyi

[Anonymous Coward]

You're both right. It used to be the case that punctuation was inside the quote; the tendancy is now not to do so ( Apparently especially in England ). As with all English gramar, there's no One Set Of Rules.

Re:fyi

[lav-chan]

In American English, for some retarded reason, that is not always the case. Commas and full stops ALWAYS go inside the quotes, whether they were part of the quoted material or not. With other punctuation marks, they go outside the quotes unless they were actually part of the source material. (e.g., if your quote is at the end of the sentence, you would put the period before the quotation mark, but if you were shouting and the person you quoted was not, your exclamation mark would go outside.)

It's increasingly popular to ignore this rule, though, especially in technical situations (like computer manuals). But... in schools, they still teach it stops and commas inside. :/

Re:fyi

[SparklingClearWit]

"Traditionally," said the teacher, "puncuation DOES go inside the quotes!"

"That isn't always the case in modern dialogue", she continued, "as sometimes delineating technical data without puncuation is desirable."

"Lastly," she breathed, "the 'old way' does seem to be more pleasant aesthetically..."

Re:fyi

[Anonymous Coward]

"punctuation goes inside quotes."

Depends if you're quoting the punctuation.

(Technical writers ensure that everything inside the quotes is from the quoted text, while "normal" writers put their own punctuation inside someone else's text, for neatness. Type "ls something?" to see how it can be confusing in computer-related contexts. Did you match something1? )

First Impressions...

[Dogtanian]

Whilst it's good that the NetBSD people have recognised the need for a proper logo, my impressions are...

It looks slightly dated, like something from the late 80s/early 90s when corporate types were going for 'flowing' logos with gentle curves. The typeface and colours also contribute to this impression.

It's also fairly boring. If they decide to have a mascot as well, this won't such a problem though; logo for corporate stuff, mascot for the fans and developers.

In fact, I wish someone would design a proper (generic) Linux logo. Specifically, one that incorporates the word 'Linux' and could be used without fear of looking unprofessional. Tux seems to have become logo (as well as mascot) by default, but is not really suitable for more serious use.

Of course, Tux would remain as the mascot (although personally disliking Tux, I appreciate that I'm probably in the minority). 'Serious' literature would use the Linux logo, everyone else could use either- or both- as they pleased.

Re:First Impressions...

[xbsd]

You're not alone. I've been trying to find Linux logos without the penguin for a while. I don't like it.

Re:First Impressions...

[Wouter Van Hemel]

Linux isn't made by stiff suits, and this is what the logo reflects. It doesn't try to be cool, sleek, fast, super, ultra, faceless or generic. It's just a fat penguin. Same for the BSD daemon logo - now only used by FreeBSD I guess - and the OpenBSD fish. Tux, in by his uncoolness, is cool. And memorable. And a bit of a subtle middlefinger.

Why would 'serious literature' need anything better, serious or bland-marketing-friendly than the system itself?

Ofcourse, distro's have their own logo's, and some of those logo's might speak more to management suits.

Re:First Impressions...

[Dogtanian]

Why would 'serious literature' need anything better, serious or bland-marketing-friendly than the system itself?

Superficially, a good rational argument. My counter-argument would be that this is the way the world works, and if Linux wishes to be adopted and seen as professional, this is what should be done.

However, I'm going to say this instead. A logo is a good piece of shorthand, e.g. when you pick up a package, or software, or whatever, a good logo is easy to recognise; far more so than simply writing 'Linux'. Equally importantly, a logo will get more attention from people, and raise Linux to prominence. Thus, a logo is A Good Thing.

However, Tux sits uncomfortably between being a logo and a mascot. Like it or not, there are cases where Tux's (alleged) cuteness may be out-of-place, and the opportunity to display a Linux-publicising logo is lost. The non-inclusion of the words "Linux" also means less direct publicity.

By having a proper logo, we get the benefits of both.

Having said that, I'll say this. I do not like Tux as a mascot either; my case above could also apply to the FreeBSD daemon, but I quite like "Chuck".

Tux, on the other hand, leaves me cold. I *like* cute logos and mascots in many cases, but Tux has always seemed lifeless and banal to me, like some toy made of shiny plastic that doesn't do anything. Chuck (the daemon) looks like it has life, whereas Tux just sits there, glassy eyed, forever in the same pose. I can't imagine Tux as anything more than a failed, static attempt at being cute. His cutness lacks warmth.... it's like saccharin compared to real sugar.

Tux is professionally drawn, but is too frivolous to be a logo, and too lifeless to be a mascot. In a lesser way, he also irritates me like Barney the Dinosaur does.

It's a matter of personal preference, but my dislike of Tux is not solely because of his unsuitability as a logo.

Re:The reason for poor logo design...

[wikinerd]

The logo was designed by Grant Bissett, an Australian designer.

Much more professional logo

[Infonaut]

If you're trying to get people interested in your product, the first rule is don't offend people. Like it or not, there are folks out there who don't understand the difference between daemon and demon. If you're the tech guy trying to show management that OpenBSD is worth using, the new logo is going to be much more reassuring than the old one, particularly if you happen to be operating in the Bible Belt. You may laugh, but it's true.

This is about marketing - pure and simple. The people behind NetBSD have every right to make the OS more accessible to as wide a range of users as possible, and part of doing that involves making it look more professional and less like something thrown together by a bunch of gamers in their parents' basement.

The new logo is clean, elegant, shows motion, uses bold colors, and is readily distinguishable from any other OS-related logo. Having a professional logo doesn't make you evil, and it doesn't mean you've sold out. But for better or worse it does mean that people (and not just management types) will tend to take you more seriously.

Re:Much more professional logo

[cavac]

If you're trying to get people interested in your product, the first rule is don't offend people.

Having read slashdot-articles for the past few years, i'd say that offending people makes them buy your products. Just think of Microsoft, SCO, Nokia, Siemens, Redhat, SuSE and - especially and - IP phone vendors like Grandstream...

Maybe BSD's would do a lot better on market-share if they'd stop beeing polite and start kicking ass...

Re:Much more professional logo

[Anonymous Coward]

Uh... this doesn't make a lot of sense. :)
Let's try: "Will you buy my product, you fucking moronic retarded nitwit?"

...see? :)

Re:Much more professional logo

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course it doesn't work - you didn't say what you were selling. Fuckup. :)

Re:Much more professional logo

[Derleth]

"Will you buy my product, you fucking moronic retarded nitwit?"

More like: "You're my bitch, now bend over and take it!"

Re:Much more professional logo

[Wouter Van Hemel]

If you're trying to get people interested in your product, the first rule is don't offend people. Like it or not, there are folks out there who don't understand the difference between daemon and demon. [...]

The question that raises, is if we must always please the weakest chain, the most prude, the fundamentalists. The old logo needed a bit of a makeover; but please don't let a handul of offended fundamentalists be the reason. They already sicken this world enough as it is.

The logo really isn't bad, if it would have been for a project less personal, fun and volunteer-driven. It's a great logo for the suits, but I would understand if many people of the NetBSD community would find it a bit lacking in personality and charm.

It was World War II Marines, not Soldiers...

[wasted]

at Iwo Jima.

Pink Slip

[BSDevil]

I take it this means I'm now fired...

What?!?!

[FireBreathingDog]

A freaking LOGO is news?!?!?!

I doubt SlashDot would consider it "news" if Microsoft came out with a new logo for their latest InternextActiveDirectXbox product. Why are we supposed to give a damn about this?

Re:What?!?!

[Anonymous Coward]

White text on a blue background?

Re:What?!?!

[nacturation]

This isn't a new product logo, it's a new company logo. I'm sure you'd consider it news if Microsoft changed its corporate logo for ALL of its products.

Re:What?!?!

[cavac]

I'm sure you'd consider it news if Microsoft changed its corporate logo

Like, for example, a big "M" with Mickey Mouse ears?

Re:What?!?!

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sure you'd consider it news if Microsoft changed its corporate logo for ALL of its products.

No actually. What is their corporate logo anyway, just 'Microsoft' in some specific font or other?

I'm sure big computer companies have changed their logos before, maybe Microsoft maybe not, and it's never been newsworthy. Why would anyone care?

Re:The contest,months of waiting...for a RED FLAG?

[D4C5CE]

Seems to me they wanted to be so neutral, so inoffensive to everyone in the entire world that they picked a logo that means nothing.

And then while they might insist this is "just orange", what they did pick looks awfully similar to a red flag, raising the specter of all the atrocities that have been committed in its name. BTW Mozilla ditched the red star for this very reason. Neutral? Inoffensive? How "good" intentions often go terribly wrong (if the ones you name ever really were more than epitomes of "political correctness")... And moreover, this one's already taken.

Re:Why not trade on their reputation instead?

[Anonymous Coward]

Same could be said for Firefox's logo. How many times have you seen a browser with some kind of element embracing a globe icon. Maybe the folks over there could come up with something more original than going with a more familiar look and appeal.

Just to be corny...

[CliffH]

... if I were artistically inclined (drawing wise, anyways), I would have put BSD in a net. Corny, but ya know what it is. :)

Why NetBSD is important

[Anonymous Coward]

NetBSD is always the first OS to be ported to new hardware because it is the most portable code. In a similar fashion, the new NetBSD logo is always the first logo to be designed for new Slashdot articles because it is very easy to draw.

Significance

[base_chakra]

Note to the judges, If the text in your logo needs to be readable to identify your product, it's not a good logo.

That is not the case. By your definition, no text-only logo could ever be "good". The thing to understand here is that in graphic design, text functions simultaneously as a means of encoding a verbal message and as a formal graphic in its own right. The letterforms or typefaces are significant, the configuration is significant, the colors are significant, and all of those things culminate in a recognizable pattern. Don't view the word and the image as mutually exclusive concepts when looking at the logo (or in general, for that matter). There are more aspects to reaction than the cognitive.

Anyone who knows NetBSD's heritage knows the significance of the flag. The old image has been distilled into something iconic, but by the reactions it seems that many slashdotters have again demonstrated that unfortunate tendency to hastily judge based on instantaneous first reaction. Contrary to some of the criticisms voiced today, this logo does mean something.

Re:Everyone will forver associate linux with pengu

[Anonymous Coward]

yeah, just look at the flop that was the Nike swoosh. Way too bland and generic for serious use.

The old logo was better

[Anonymous Coward]

The old logo was better.

Re:The old logo was better

[octaene]

And better is better!

assumptions the mother of all evil!

[ASAPnetworks]

I honestly believe that anyone remotely interested in downloading the NetBSD logo's has the computer know-how to do to so. I don't think the 9 or so various README's on HOW-TO download images off the web! and suggested html tags are absolutely necessary. it's almost insulting. give us more credit then that!

And probably the reason he won

[Anonymous Coward]

If there were 400+ designers in the competition, I'm sure we'd have a better logo.

Lame

[Anonymous Coward]

One of the stated reasons for coming up with a new logo was that the old one was too nationalist, violent, upsetting to religious types, bla bla bla. But guess what -- when the primary goal of your design effort is not to offend anyone, you end up with a bland and totally forgettable image. I couldn't have come up with a better example of pussified PC thinking if I tried.

So, the good logo is gone...

[cavac]

...do they still stick to the daemon as maskott? Cause i rather like to stick to my 30cm daemon i have on my desk than to an orange/grey flag that looks like the latest advertising campaing for generic viagra...

You keep using that quote...

[Anonymous Coward]

You keep using that quote. I do not think it goes how you think it goes :P

The devil is in the details

[elflet]

Turn the logo on its side...ohmighod, the flag suddenly develops horns!

;)-

Re:The devil is in the details

[setagllib]

The article you're naming your post after did not have plural 'details', since it isn't really necessary. 'So much detail' is so close in meaning to 'so many details' to most people that it doesn't seem Right to print an extra letter on every newspaper (and in my case, photocopy for persuasion analysis - damn english).

Can anyone say

[Epsillon]

BIKESHED? :-D

In other news

[Linker3000]

Kettle boils dry - no-one is injured.

Yawn!

The new logo is cool

[ulib]

Clean, simple, and tasteful.
Also notice that the flag is the surviving element from the old logo - representing the strain to "conquer" new platforms :)
Choosing a logo with these qualities could be *much* harder than it seems... It's definitely a good pick.

Confusion

[JoeNotCharles]

Anyone else think for a minute that the ad below the story was a graphic of the new logo? I got the Sybase one with a big red demon-guy shaking money out of someone's pockets. With the BSD-demon connection I thought it was plausible, but bizarre.

PHB was watered-down devil also

[billstewart]

Gak. Don't you k1dd13z remember your Dilbert history? The Pointy-Haired Boss was originally a devil also, but got watered down. (And that's not even counting his cousin Phil from Heck, the Prince of Inadequate Light, carrier of a big pitch-spoon...) In the PHB's case, that was probably a distinct improvement, but here it's just lame corporate blandness.

Disclaimer: I work for a different Phone Company than the one Scott Adams worked for back when Dilbert was mostly a Phone Company thing.

the old one

[r00t]

The old one really, truly, was a proper representation of terminal decay.

New logo sucks.

[jcuervo]

It just looks... boring. A flag? What the fuck? Speedy must be spinning over in his grave.

(That was a "BSD is dead" joke, by the way -- emphasis on joke. :-))

same with Linux

[r00t]

vi .config
make oldconfig && make install

May I suggest using /bin/ed instead?
It's the standard editor, and it seems
to fit your masochistic style.

I'd use menuconfig for changes.

Re:same with Linux

[setagllib]

Pfft. It's not the same. Linux configs were meant to be simple to parse by software, not by humans. The menuconfig/xconfig/etc hacks were just to make it easier to bridge the gap between human and configuration. If they were consistent in layout, naming and help for the options, it might even be a good idea. But since the BSDs have kernel configs with inline comments and tips, a syntax that makes sense and is perfectly readable, and detailed manpage/Handbook/etc documentation for every option (oppose Linux, which still has 1/5 or so of its options undocumented or close enough, and some rubbish like saying everyone should enable IPSec even though 90% of users won't have any idea what to do with it on their home network), they're clearly in the right here. I never liked menuconfig more than writing and keeping a config for a BSD kernel.

Honestly though, who could like 'CONFIG_8139TOO' more than 'device rtk' (NetBSD) or 'device rl' (FreeBSD)? The devices are at least consistently and shortly named, so you don't have to scavenge through references to know what module to load or option to request. Plus, on systems without a working ncurses or X (I'm sure there are such systems...), menuconfig and x/gconfig are out the door, and you're stuck using the per-question-and-restart-if-you-change-your-mind design of make config.

BSD is about getting it right and making it sensible, even if it means being a year behind in the technology. Linux could learn a lot from this. No wonder NetBSD is breaking internet land speed records in 'betas' while Linux is cropping up with huge bugs in 'releases'.

Re:same with Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

Very well and nicely said! You couldn't have said it any better.

Re:same with Linux

[r00t]

Sure, the config is meant to be parsed by software.
You will surely screw up otherwise. You might know
that TCP requires networking (duh!), but there are
plenty of things that are less obvious.

It wouldn't be hard to spit out a config file with
the help text embedded in it. Probably that only
requires a 1-line perl script... doesn't everything?
Of course, that would be dumb, because then you'd
lose the error prevention provided by menuconfig.

Have you heard of randomconfig? It randomly
answers config questions for you. The resulting
kernel should always compile! With BSD, you'd
end up with a failed build.

The advice to choose IPsec is correct. It won't
hurt, except for a trivial amount of RAM. If you
leave it out but your network depends on it,
you'll be in a world of hurt.

On a modern Linux system, you don't scavenge
through references to know what module to load.
Modules are loaded on demand when the kernel
runs /sbin/hotplug in response to discovering
new hardware. Modules contain data that maps
them to PCI IDs, ISA PnP IDs, network protocol
IDs, USB class IDs, and so on. Then, via DBUS,
your device appears on the desktop... :-)
GNOME will even offer to grab photos from your
new digital camera as soon as you plug it in.

The mark of a bad logo

[tentimestwenty]

I think that's the sole universal criteria of a bad logo. If you can change the word to another company or anything really and have it fit, it means your logo has no intrinsic meaning. The only way these generic logos attain character is through ruthless repetition which is lame compensation.

Re:Slashdot Out of Date?

[belg4mit]

NetBSD : BSD :: RedHat : Linux

bah...

[irg1231491]

i, for one, think this sucks...

it's really annoying seeing a really cool logo with history and personality be dumped in favor of one that looks like every other corporate logo out there... bland and tasteless, in my opinion. ...of course, anyone who would pick an OS based on logo deserves a swift kick in the head anyway.

Ian

nice

[chadm1967]

I think it looks nice. Very good choice.

The whole "cute animal" thing has got to go

[carcosa30]

When I see cute cartoon Tuxes and BSD devils, whether they're doing their imitation of the Iwo Jima flaglifting or not, I think "my god, and we're trying to get onto the corporate desktop here."

I've actually had an experience where I was recommending Linux in a corporate environment, and someone said "Is that the one with the cartoon penguin? How can we take that seriously?"

And it's no joke. You have to remember, appearance is everything to those people. Appearance matters more than reality. And if you have a cartoon demon as your "mascot--" or Eddie from the Iron Maiden albums, or WHATEVER-- nobody but hackers are going to take the thing seriously.

Re:The whole "cute animal" thing has got to go

[smcavoy]

Linux will always have a "cool" logo. The (corporate?) Distros supply corporate stiff type logos.

Re:The whole "cute animal" thing has got to go

[setagllib]

Yeah... I can see how a fattened and daft-looking penguin is 'cool'. You must have gotten beat up as a kid :)

Daemons always own penguins, especially with the daemonettes. They're... really hot.

http://people.freebsd.org/~wpaul/daemonette/
http://www.uberg33k.com/bsdgirl/
http://community.borland.com/article/images/20108/ freebsd.jpg

It's simple: Women can't dress as penguins, and if they try to, it's really not that hot. BSD has a sufficiently humanoid yet abstract (since horns, fork, etc. can all be relevant without the rest of the daemon) mascot that, besides being cool by appearance alone, is very successful as something for women to wear

/me grins like someone who's never had a girlfriend but just found an awesome stash of porn

Re:The whole "cute animal" thing has got to go

[fracex]

Because Windows XP is SO professional with its Luna interface.

Re:The whole "cute animal" thing has got to go

[ink]

Yeah, stupid Walmart and their cute little smiley guy, or the AOL running man, what a DUMB idea, and that whole Jack-In-The-Box and M&M's, Little Caesar's, Aflac, Coca-Cola Bears... not professional, like a duotone flag.

Re:The whole "cute animal" thing has got to go

[Anonymous Coward]

I suspect that most of those logos you mentioned came out after their owners were already huge.

Furthermore, those companies really aren't trying to reach into more professional markets.

At least I hope AOL isn't.

Re:The whole "cute animal" thing has got to go

[Anonymous Coward]

I suspect that most of those logos you mentioned came out after their owners were already huge.

So is IBM. So is HP. Anyone who decides not to use Linux because of the penguin don't care how 'huge' a company is. Clue: it isn't Linus Torvalds who turns up on their doorstep trying to sell it to them.

FreeBSD, are you listening?

[caulfield]

Time for FreeBSD to do the same. FreeBSD needs something other than a 20-year-old drawing of a devil to appeal to the masses, right?

Re:FreeBSD, are you listening?

[setagllib]

Hardly. FreeBSD is the only BSD, now, that has stuck to its original logos, at least in content.

"Corporate" was the first word that hit me when I saw the new NetBSD logo, and judging by this thread I'm not the only one that thinks this way. I hated it for the first few minutes (unfamiliarity more than anything - I'd more hate some glossy kitsch like Gentoo's logo, which, to anyone who didn't know Gentoo, could just as well be a breakfast cereal logo) but now I've grown a liking to it. It constitutes my MSN 'display pic' (Microsoft = long names for simple things, just so people don't have to remember new words like 'avatar') and still is getting appreciated.

Simple is good, but I still think they dropped too much of their proud BSD culture when they 'distilled' the original (I say 'they' because it is now 'their' intellectual property, at least in as much as they chose it over other images which were probably better anyway).

I mean, OpenBSD dropped the BSD Daemon in favor of an icon largely relevant to their cause (for those that don't know, blowfish is a symmetric encryption algorithm, a darn good one at that), and that's fair enough - it's flexible and 'fun'. NetBSD's is dry now, completely unlike the dated but awesome old logo, which had relevance to their cause and the old BSD culture. The new one has some very loose relevance, at least if people recognize the flag, but where's the BSD in it? (not counting the NetBSD text)

We'll note that BSD is still generalised on Slashdot with the classic daemon, even though it now only applies to FreeBSD and (if they keep the older icons, at least) NetBSD.

DragonFly has a good icon, IMHO. It is colourful, which reduces its use on monochrome media and all, and I can't for the life of me remember the whole thing all at once - but it is instantly recognizable as 'dragonfly' even if you've never heard of the project, it's simple and professional enough to appeal to business, while still being interesting enough to appeal to geeks. 'Course I don't run DragonFly since it still has too much of FreeBSD's brokeness (remove kbdcontrol and moused necessity, then I'll go back) to be made up for by the amazing technical merit, most of which NetBSD offers anyway without any of the brokeness - plus it runs as well on my x86s as my Indy :)

Re:FreeBSD, are you listening?

[caulfield]

I'm not necessarily for "[dropping BSD's] proud culture," although I think the case can me made that a li'l devil isn't the best choice of a mascot from a marketing perspective. To those who scoff at "marketing," think of this: FreeBSD needs to work at becoming mainstream or else risk being left behind. I think that the beastie needs a serious overhaul, including making one-colour and spot-colour versions that can easily be put in to print (or t-shirts :).

I have nothing against DragonFly BSD. I don't think forking the 4 tree helps BSD adoption, though. It definitely muddies the waters. Their logo is very nice (and useable).

I think FreeBSD could use a redesign of their "corporate" identity. I'm not saying get rid of the beastie, but a new look, one that isn't so stale, is definitely required.

OpenBSD had a very cool 3D wire-frame beastie several versions ago. Something different like that could spark interest in FreeBSD. If nothing else, you can say that NetBSD's logo change has brought them publicity.

Yech

[Anonymous Coward]

I liked the old logo.

Actually, I like it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Sure, it's el-bland-o. That's the whole point. It's a subversive, sneaky way to get our favorite daemon team past the PHBs and into the corporate centres.

It's a DISGUISE, people. The mascot has not changed. The software has not changed. It's just gone stealth, dived below the loony-religious radar.

The new logo is funny because it's so deliberately bland that PHBs won't remember what it means in a weeks' time. It's the semantic relative of '404' or a little green light - means nothing to the beancounters, but speaks volumes to those in the know.

I'll say it again

[deunan_k]

Look at this link

I, for one,

[Anonymous Coward]

welcome our new phallic logo.

Re:The contest,months of waiting...for a RED FLAG?

[Calroth]

BTW Mozilla ditched the red star for this very reason [mozilla.org].

The bug you linked to, claiming that the red star was offensive, was closed as VERIFIED INVALID.

Re:Hmmm - past is better

[Anonymous Coward]

that dull new ghey flag logo suxxors

I prefer the old logo, and will do a rip and replace on all distro revs hence forth.

Re:The contest,months of waiting...for a RED FLAG?

[ink]

Although, the logo has changed; both Firefox and Mozilla now sport newer logos (the "communist" star was MUCH better than that awful Phoenix logo!), and the mozilla.org team has a marketing group as well.

DEFEAT!

[Anonymous Coward]

The flag stands for defeat. Go orange flag! ---- Matthew Daniel Leung

As an art guy,

[MQBS]

I have to say that I like the logo. It meets my one requirement for a good logo, and in spades:

A good logo can be recognizably spraypainted with one template.

In other words, the logo is simple enough that it doesn't require any serious work to put it on things, it can be read from close up or afar, its not overly complicated and it looks unique. And this logo fits that requirement quite nicely.

I also like the placement of the flag, the diag it makes with the text really gives the logo some oomph.

and they still managed to offend someone

[ModernGeek]

Even with the new logo, NetBSD and still managed to offend some people because of the flag coming from that other picture from Iwo Jima. Everything offends someone, no matter what it is. I bet if I popped my neck in public, or cracked my knuckles, someone would be offended. There is a girl at school who freaks out if someone rubs things, like runs their hand down their desk, or down a peice of paper. Everyone needs to grow the fuck up.

Next contest...

[Anonymous Coward]

...a lengthy process is now under way for a design for a NetBSD flag.

Shitty

[Anonymous Coward]

God that's bad

Re:Shitty

[Anonymous Coward]

I'll third that

i bet that competition

[The MESMERIC]

was rigged. damn ugly logo.

About the new logo ant NetBSD's site..

[hugo_pt]

http://www.netbsd.org/

Am I the only one thinking the orange/gray on the logo doesn't look pretty at all with the bluish menus ?

The logo itself is ok, it just doesn't seem to fit with NetBSD's site.
Perhaps the site colours should be changed ?

Wild Speculation

[bill_mcgonigle]

So why orange?

Well, the Daemons are Red, so that would have been the first choice.

But Red Flag Linux is taken by Communist China.

So, Orange is the next closest color. Near InfraRed would have been a hipper choice.

Interesting line from the Changes...

[SYS2066]

"Chris Gilbert has added experimental ABLE firmware support on cats, please see his mail to port-cats for more information."

We now wait for the port-dogs to emerge...

Yuck

[Anonymous Coward]

Nice boring corporate logo. Yuck.

AOL AOL Revolution

[tepples]

Why does the AOL running man remind me of a DDR song, namely Drop Out?

you are a legend

Looks like the old anarchist flag to me!

[Anonymous Coward]

Long Live Bakunin,
Long Live Prince Kropotkin,
Long Live Malatesta!,
Long live Noam Chomsky!
Long Live Other Anarchists!

Cheap motel or roller coaster theme park...

[Anonymous Coward]

Whats your off-peak rate ?

It's f**kin' good.

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a perfect logo. People bashing it either don't have good taste or don't know what a logo is.

Legal reasons?

[Anonymous Coward]

Was this in response to the copyright-infringement lawsuit threatened by Satan, on behalf of Hell L.L.C.?

FreeBSD has no logo

[Helevius]

FreeBSD has no logo. OpenBSD has no logo. Linux has no logo. All of them have mascots, being the Beastie daemon, puffer fish, and Tux, respectively.

Only DragonFly and now NetBSD have logos.

Helevius

This is to counter the FreeBSD booth chicks

[Anonymous Coward]

With the FreeBSD folks having the demon babes, with the flag, NetBSD can go now to something in the bare breasts line of this Painting ;-9

All together now...

[timbck2]

It took NINE AND A HALF MONTHS to come up with the word "NetBSD" and a flag???!!!

A Jap Soldier Being Burned Alive on Iwo-jima

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you know the tragedy on Iwo-jima during the WWII? More than 27,000 soldiers have lost their lives there.

Hey Fucking Yankee! Your granpa killed a bunch of Japanese in caves, burned alive them by flamethrowers. You, prised as hero saving the world, are the only brutal bloodthirsty killers. Or just wanna eat human-B-B-Q?

That's the story of Iwo-jima and the previous logo was appearently taken from its symbolic picture:

http://www.iwojima.jp/stamp.jpg
http://www.iwojima.jp/statue.html

And the new logo still inherits the original concept. Under the flag, I see mortified ghosts.

I'd rather like to choose the logo of twin-tower with 911 airplane. Or burned soldier on the bridge of Bagdad? They're much suitable for stupid Amaricans. Ha Ha.