"you are just using the eyes of other programmers as your antivirus."
Yeah? So? And how is that bad? I also use MD5 sums to compare what I downloaded with what I was supposed to download.
"i am not saying this happens every day, but it has indeed happened before and ProFTPD isn't the first time."
It happens once every few years. I literally can't remember specifically when the last one happened, but I have a vague recollection of it.
Googling, I can find 3 instances, including this ProFTPD one in the last 10 years. Gentoo and Debian were at fault in the previous two.
That's how rare it is.
Compare and contrast this situation with the Windows situation, where there are literally millions of malware signatures, and the number keeps growing every day.
"but ultimately how is that so different than a binary?"
Because *someone* can look at the code. If not me, then someone else. With a binary, you get *zero* chance.
You're really fighting tooth and nail to hold on to that false equivalence fallacy. Sorry, but that's a load of bullshit.
"eyes of the developers and hoping they find the issue in a timely manner."
It's worked pretty well so far. Obviously trying to catch it all at the client side (Windows) hasn't worked at all over the past decade and a half.
because unless you read and understand the source code entirely you really don't know what could be hiding in it.
No. Still not the same.
Because I don't need to understand the source code if there is someone else that does. It's a kind of herd immunity.
Sure, you can sneak your malware on to a server like what happened with ProFTPD, and you may get away with it for a few days. But not everyone is Ken Thompson - able to hide a backdoor in the Unix C compiler for decades.
As opposed to what, Microsoft sitting on its hands for months or years because they won't fix or until they can't take the wailing and gnashing of teeth anymore?
How's that Windows Home Server goin' for ya?
"ANDROID HAS BUGS! BE AFRAID! BE VERY AFRAID! FRAGMENTATION! FRAGMENTATION! BOO!"
How bloody hard is it to copy a file? A text one at that? How hard is it to literally grab and drag a file from "Download" to where your local.opera directory is, or to directly save the file to.opera?
So now it's got a GUI wrapper? BFD. It actually makes it *more* complicated.
I swear that every complaint that "Hurr, durr, Opera had no adblock" is an intelligence shibboleth. Those that said it are stupid, without reservation.
Two best browsers on the 'net - Chrome and Opera. Hands down. The others aren't even close. Not Webkit nor Gecko based browsers. And IE is just a special case all to itself - a reminder of a bygone era when standards didn't matter.
No, the rules for filibustering have changed. The start of the rule changes began in the 60s. Then with more rule changes in the 70s the number of filibusters skyrocketed.
I get rude when people expect Linux to be Windows after about the third time they complain about where the control panel is (among other things) and when they're simply trolling. It's amazing the amount of trolling going on in the help forums. Sometimes it extends to irc.
Car analogy follows:
"Gee, this BMW is nothing like my Ford." "Why is the battery in back again?" "They should put the battery in the engine compartment" ("but it's there for weight distribution") "I don't care about that, it's stupid"
It's not Windows. It's not a cheap Windows. It's not anything like Windows. Stop expecting it to be Windows. Once you do that, a lot of things become _much_ easier.
ignorant people aren't ridiculed when making wildly incorrect statements.
I don't think it's a problem with the ignorant people per se, it's with the willfully ignorant people, of which there are many. These types are what you could call fractally wrong^1 and to try and counter their spewage with logic is maddening, since one doesn't even know where to stop, so one gives up easily.
-- BMO
Fractal wrongness: The state of being wrong at every conceivable scale of resolution. That is, from a distance, a fractally wrong person's worldview is incorrect; and furthermore, if you zoom in on any small part of that person's worldview, that part is just as wrong as the whole worldview.
With regards to your sig, it's not Apple you should thank, but the fine folks at KDE.org which did all the heavy lifting. Webkit is a modified version of khtml.
I used to be libertarian at one point. I grew the fuck up.
Rand Paul, and his idiot son - the torchbearers (or maybe they should be pallbearers) of the ideology - demonstrate just how bankrupt that philosophy is. It's like Communism - looks good on paper until you involve actual human beings.
I laid it on thick, but it seems like those who hold such thoughts are leeches upon society. "I like all the benefits of civilization, but don't you fucking ask me to contribute to it"
Taxes and regulations are what we pay for civilization with. I'm ok with this. TANSTAAFL.
I am sorry, it's not our fault that you are blind or deaf.
Karma would be Gawd striking you temporarily blind, but since He doesn't exist (or has abandoned us for 2000 years) it's up to us to piss you off and make you accept everyone on even terms when dealing in commerce.
You don't have to like it, but getting along with civilization is generally a good thing, especially when you don't have to worry about boycotts.
In case you hadn't noticed, one of the reasons for the Bill of Rights is to keep the tyranny of the majority from making life impossible for others. It's also funny how the far-right jumps up and down about Christianity while the philosophy they spew goes against every single tenet of such teaching. You are your brother's keeper, Chuckles. Why do you hate civilization and the Baby Jesus so much?
You can take your kook-ade-drinkin'/randroid/unreformed-southern-democrat BS, print it out on oaktag, fold it up until it is all sharp corners, and stick it where only your doctor screening for cancer will find it.
There are too many flashy (pun intended) websites without any secondary way of seeing them. A proper public website should be navigable with a screen reader. As "Web 2.0" has marched on, it has only gotten worse. Some are even so user hostile that even those wanting a bit of privacy without Flash or javascript enabled are simply locked out.
Exceptions should be made for personal pages, but for organizations, governments, and commerce sites that deal with the public, there shouldn't be any excuse.
This probably had to do with something as simple as screw threads.
A Whitworth (55degree)threaded fastener (England) isn't going to go into a B&S(60 degree)(US) threaded hole regardless of quality.
But it didn't stop there. When English, Commonwealth, and US threads all became 60 degree inch based threads, it was still a crapshoot whether a fastener would fit in a hole. It was this way until the Unified Thread standard came to the fore in 1949.
You can imagine how much hell this played with "Lend Lease" equipment.
Take apart an American piece of equipment from WWII, snap/lose/strip an important screw, and you might as well junk it if all you've got is Canadian or English screws kicking around. And since the Unified Thread standard didn't get approved until 1949, this coincides with your WWII timeframe.
Many top Chinese engineers and scientists are Western educated, so calling them into question calls our own system into question. And yes, it's an unfair comparison. It's like asking Hasbro to come up with a moon rocket. Maybe, if there is a Werner Von Braun in Pawtucket, Rhode Island.
I don't get the arguments about how the Chinese will always lag in these threads, how they're slow, how they don't know how to do anything well enough, that they make crap. I'm actually old enough to remember the exact same arguments said about the Japanese. I was a kid, but I did hear it from my parents, especially when I was told about build quality. Then the 1980s happened. Then Chrysler had to be bailed out by Ronald Reagan, and suddenly Japanese cars and electronics were what everyone wanted.
And we proceeded to say the same things about the Koreans (A Hyundai is one of the most reliable cars out there, and everyone seems to have a Samsung computer monitor or big screen TV). And we've also said some not-so-nice things about the Taiwanese too.
Funny how they've been able to catch up. The Chinese can't do the same? I don't buy it.
I didn't say, "no other country" will make it to the moon this century
Explain what, exactly, you were thinking when you wrote this sentence. Seriously. What the bloody blazes are you replying to in my message? Go re-read my message.
upcoming economic crash
Yeah, and it took US merely 40 years to get to the moon from the beginning of the Great Depression with a world war eating up a significant chunk in between. But the space race to get to the moon really started from Kennedy's announcement in 1962, so it really took us 7 years with 1960s technology to get there.
So what you've said is that it will take the Chinese 13 times longer to get to the moon than we did assuming they start immediately.
Nope, I don't buy it. I don't buy your stupid assertions. They have no basis in reality. You ignore the development rate of the Chinese. You completely ignore the starting point of the Chinese. You ignore the education level of US educated Chinese scientists and engineers. Indeed, the only reference you have is your own biases from your own head.
It's attitudes like yours which make me fear for the future of the US in science and technology. Many people think like you. Many are willing to simply write off the Chinese even as they have been kicking our ass for 10 years. This is the complacency that nearly brought down the US automotive industry *twice* in the last 40 years. This is the complacency that will cost us our future.
China is behind. But they have things working in their favor:
They think in the long term. Unlike every company in the US that looks to the next quarter and no further.
They're motivated. Unlike many complacent CEOs in the US (US workers are still the most productive in the world - it's not their fault they are leaderless)
They've learned to stop letting the West take advantage of them. The West still thinks they can take advantage of them. We are wrong.
And they've stopped with the ideology bullshit getting in the way of targeting markets and picking winners and losers - anathema to the "free market" ideology of the US, but the Japanese did it to great success, and the Chinese learned by watching them.
Slashdot Mirror
Corporate citizenship went out of style back around 1980.
"Greed is good" and all that.
--
BMO
"you are just using the eyes of other programmers as your antivirus."
Yeah? So? And how is that bad? I also use MD5 sums to compare what I downloaded with what I was supposed to download.
"i am not saying this happens every day, but it has indeed happened before and ProFTPD isn't the first time."
It happens once every few years. I literally can't remember specifically when the last one happened, but I have a vague recollection of it.
Googling, I can find 3 instances, including this ProFTPD one in the last 10 years. Gentoo and Debian were at fault in the previous two.
That's how rare it is.
Compare and contrast this situation with the Windows situation, where there are literally millions of malware signatures, and the number keeps growing every day.
"but ultimately how is that so different than a binary?"
Because *someone* can look at the code. If not me, then someone else. With a binary, you get *zero* chance.
You're really fighting tooth and nail to hold on to that false equivalence fallacy. Sorry, but that's a load of bullshit.
"eyes of the developers and hoping they find the issue in a timely manner."
It's worked pretty well so far. Obviously trying to catch it all at the client side (Windows) hasn't worked at all over the past decade and a half.
--
BMO
because unless you read and understand the source code entirely you really don't know what could be hiding in it.
No. Still not the same.
Because I don't need to understand the source code if there is someone else that does. It's a kind of herd immunity.
Sure, you can sneak your malware on to a server like what happened with ProFTPD, and you may get away with it for a few days. But not everyone is Ken Thompson - able to hide a backdoor in the Unix C compiler for decades.
--
BMO
The fact the ProFTPD backdoor is news is because it's so rare.
Malware on Windows? Not news. Not when there are millions of signatures.
Why do Windows boosters *always* use the false equivalence fallacy when it comes subjects such as this?
--
BMO
As opposed to what, Microsoft sitting on its hands for months or years because they won't fix or until they can't take the wailing and gnashing of teeth anymore?
How's that Windows Home Server goin' for ya?
"ANDROID HAS BUGS! BE AFRAID! BE VERY AFRAID! FRAGMENTATION! FRAGMENTATION! BOO!"
--
BMO
>about fucking time
Say what?
How bloody hard is it to copy a file? A text one at that? How hard is it to literally grab and drag a file from "Download" to where your local .opera directory is, or to directly save the file to .opera?
So now it's got a GUI wrapper? BFD. It actually makes it *more* complicated.
I swear that every complaint that "Hurr, durr, Opera had no adblock" is an intelligence shibboleth. Those that said it are stupid, without reservation.
Two best browsers on the 'net - Chrome and Opera. Hands down. The others aren't even close. Not Webkit nor Gecko based browsers. And IE is just a special case all to itself - a reminder of a bygone era when standards didn't matter.
--
BMO
If I turn the chair 'round and use the neighbor's wifi (because it comes in spectacularly if I do that), who gets the letter?
Not like I'll do it (and really, i have better things to do).
--
BMO
No, the rules for filibustering have changed. The start of the rule changes began in the 60s. Then with more rule changes in the 70s the number of filibusters skyrocketed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filibuster_in_the_U.S._Senate
In an effort to make things "easier" they broke the system.
--
BMO
"This car is so fucked up. I had to crawl under the car and patch together two wires just to get the windshield wipers to start.
Clearly a British car with electrics made by Lucas.
--
BMO
Note to mods: "Flamebait" is not "I disagree"
Hope this helps.
--
BMO
I get rude when people expect Linux to be Windows after about the third time they complain about where the control panel is (among other things) and when they're simply trolling. It's amazing the amount of trolling going on in the help forums. Sometimes it extends to irc.
Car analogy follows:
"Gee, this BMW is nothing like my Ford." "Why is the battery in back again?" "They should put the battery in the engine compartment" ("but it's there for weight distribution") "I don't care about that, it's stupid"
It's not Windows. It's not a cheap Windows. It's not anything like Windows. Stop expecting it to be Windows. Once you do that, a lot of things become _much_ easier.
--
BMO
ignorant people aren't ridiculed when making wildly incorrect statements.
I don't think it's a problem with the ignorant people per se, it's with the willfully ignorant people, of which there are many. These types are what you could call fractally wrong^1 and to try and counter their spewage with logic is maddening, since one doesn't even know where to stop, so one gives up easily.
--
BMO
Fractal wrongness: The state of being wrong at every conceivable scale of resolution. That is, from a distance, a fractally wrong person's worldview is incorrect; and furthermore, if you zoom in on any small part of that person's worldview, that part is just as wrong as the whole worldview.
With regards to your sig, it's not Apple you should thank, but the fine folks at KDE.org which did all the heavy lifting. Webkit is a modified version of khtml.
Just sayin'
--
BMO
I used to be libertarian at one point. I grew the fuck up.
Rand Paul, and his idiot son - the torchbearers (or maybe they should be pallbearers) of the ideology - demonstrate just how bankrupt that philosophy is. It's like Communism - looks good on paper until you involve actual human beings.
I laid it on thick, but it seems like those who hold such thoughts are leeches upon society. "I like all the benefits of civilization, but don't you fucking ask me to contribute to it"
Taxes and regulations are what we pay for civilization with. I'm ok with this. TANSTAAFL.
--
BMO
I am sorry, it's not our fault that you are blind or deaf.
Karma would be Gawd striking you temporarily blind, but since He doesn't exist (or has abandoned us for 2000 years) it's up to us to piss you off and make you accept everyone on even terms when dealing in commerce.
You don't have to like it, but getting along with civilization is generally a good thing, especially when you don't have to worry about boycotts.
Have a nice day.
--
BMO
Oh look, a randroid troll; possibly a teabagger.
In case you hadn't noticed, one of the reasons for the Bill of Rights is to keep the tyranny of the majority from making life impossible for others. It's also funny how the far-right jumps up and down about Christianity while the philosophy they spew goes against every single tenet of such teaching. You are your brother's keeper, Chuckles. Why do you hate civilization and the Baby Jesus so much?
You can take your kook-ade-drinkin'/randroid/unreformed-southern-democrat BS, print it out on oaktag, fold it up until it is all sharp corners, and stick it where only your doctor screening for cancer will find it.
--
BMO
There are too many flashy (pun intended) websites without any secondary way of seeing them. A proper public website should be navigable with a screen reader. As "Web 2.0" has marched on, it has only gotten worse. Some are even so user hostile that even those wanting a bit of privacy without Flash or javascript enabled are simply locked out.
Exceptions should be made for personal pages, but for organizations, governments, and commerce sites that deal with the public, there shouldn't be any excuse.
--
BMO
Really, you really came here to say that?
We went to the Moon with German technology. Not specifically "our own"
Thank you for playing.
Werner Von Braun is laughing his ass off.
--
BMO
It probably wasn't about quality.
Read further down this part of the thread about screw threads.
--
BMO
This probably had to do with something as simple as screw threads.
A Whitworth (55degree)threaded fastener (England) isn't going to go into a B&S(60 degree)(US) threaded hole regardless of quality.
But it didn't stop there. When English, Commonwealth, and US threads all became 60 degree inch based threads, it was still a crapshoot whether a fastener would fit in a hole. It was this way until the Unified Thread standard came to the fore in 1949.
You can imagine how much hell this played with "Lend Lease" equipment.
Take apart an American piece of equipment from WWII, snap/lose/strip an important screw, and you might as well junk it if all you've got is Canadian or English screws kicking around. And since the Unified Thread standard didn't get approved until 1949, this coincides with your WWII timeframe.
So yes, I'll buy the U/S story.
--
BMO
Thanks for the vote of confidence.
Many top Chinese engineers and scientists are Western educated, so calling them into question calls our own system into question. And yes, it's an unfair comparison. It's like asking Hasbro to come up with a moon rocket. Maybe, if there is a Werner Von Braun in Pawtucket, Rhode Island.
I don't get the arguments about how the Chinese will always lag in these threads, how they're slow, how they don't know how to do anything well enough, that they make crap. I'm actually old enough to remember the exact same arguments said about the Japanese. I was a kid, but I did hear it from my parents, especially when I was told about build quality. Then the 1980s happened. Then Chrysler had to be bailed out by Ronald Reagan, and suddenly Japanese cars and electronics were what everyone wanted.
And we proceeded to say the same things about the Koreans (A Hyundai is one of the most reliable cars out there, and everyone seems to have a Samsung computer monitor or big screen TV). And we've also said some not-so-nice things about the Taiwanese too.
Funny how they've been able to catch up. The Chinese can't do the same? I don't buy it.
--
BMO
I didn't say, "no other country" will make it to the moon this century
Explain what, exactly, you were thinking when you wrote this sentence. Seriously. What the bloody blazes are you replying to in my message? Go re-read my message.
upcoming economic crash
Yeah, and it took US merely 40 years to get to the moon from the beginning of the Great Depression with a world war eating up a significant chunk in between. But the space race to get to the moon really started from Kennedy's announcement in 1962, so it really took us 7 years with 1960s technology to get there.
So what you've said is that it will take the Chinese 13 times longer to get to the moon than we did assuming they start immediately.
Nope, I don't buy it. I don't buy your stupid assertions. They have no basis in reality. You ignore the development rate of the Chinese. You completely ignore the starting point of the Chinese. You ignore the education level of US educated Chinese scientists and engineers. Indeed, the only reference you have is your own biases from your own head.
It's attitudes like yours which make me fear for the future of the US in science and technology. Many people think like you. Many are willing to simply write off the Chinese even as they have been kicking our ass for 10 years. This is the complacency that nearly brought down the US automotive industry *twice* in the last 40 years. This is the complacency that will cost us our future.
Fuck you.
Sincerely,
BMO
The Chinese aren't going to make it to the moon this century
That's 90 years.
We went from not flying at all to the moon in 65 years.
I'll bet my 401K *and* both testicles that you're wrong.
--
BMO
China is behind. But they have things working in their favor:
They think in the long term. Unlike every company in the US that looks to the next quarter and no further.
They're motivated. Unlike many complacent CEOs in the US (US workers are still the most productive in the world - it's not their fault they are leaderless)
They've learned to stop letting the West take advantage of them. The West still thinks they can take advantage of them. We are wrong.
And they've stopped with the ideology bullshit getting in the way of targeting markets and picking winners and losers - anathema to the "free market" ideology of the US, but the Japanese did it to great success, and the Chinese learned by watching them.
--
BMO
You're delusional.
--
BMO