"So, my question is - how can they be sure it is bug free?"
Keep in mind that it was Fast Compay that said the software is bug-free. They then turn around and say it had bugs in it:-)
Anyway, the article mentions that the Shuttle Group uses a database to keep track of bugs. Whenever one bug is found, it is eliminated and then placed into the bug database. The testers then look over every other part of the codebase that has similar {contructs|calls|whatever} and analyze those parts for bugs. Considering how many entries are in the bug database, I would suspect that all of the code has been thoroughly gone over...
...which still doesn't ensure 100% percent that it's bug-free. Being human, we cannot, by definition, be 100% sure that a particular codebase is 100% bug-free. However, I think it's safe to say that the code is 99.995% bug-free.
"Anyway, what exactly is the difference between Oracle 8 and 8i?"
Disclaimer:IANAODBA.
I believe that the difference is WebDB. Basically, it's a section of stored procedures that allow you to generate HTML on the fly from whatever's in the database.
Advantages:
Real time data over HTTP (Important for employees on the road).
You don't need a web person to do dynamic updates all the time. WebDB handles that for you.
Your DBA can concentrate on doing DBA stuff and not worry about a scripting language always hitting the database.
Disadvantages:
The default pages look cheesey
It's more difficult (in my experiance, YMMV) to have pages generated by WebDB conform to a company look and feel
If you want more processing of the data done, you have to rewrite the stored procedures. If you're going to do that, why use WebDB?
Something that may be outside the scope of your question, but I thought I'd include it too.
I recently attended a coference on EJB and CORBA. I met a guy who does customized home pages. He starts with a generic XML template. Based on user preferences, he has servlets (using a SAX compliant tool; look here) parse the user-defined template and insert whatever info is needed.
The coolest thing about this is the fact that it's all very lightweight. Also, the process is infinately scaleable (if you want to go full blown EJB and CORBA).
I was actually thinking of the Shire after the Hobbits' return.
Saruman was in control of the shire and doing his best to destroy it. Trees had been cut, sherrifs were hassling the populace, and black smoke was choking the air.
After the battle in the square, Saruman could have been easily taken, tried, and executed for his crimes. As a matter of fact, that's what most of the town wanted.
Frodo said no.
Worm was the one who killed Saruman. Frodo knew when to pursue, and when to lay off.
That was actually the example I was thinking of...:-)
I thought it kind of odd that the replys were set up that way. I mean, of course I could go back to the original interview and look over the posts easily enough (in fact, I remembered almost all of the questions and could peg about three people to their comments without looking), but I digress...
I consider the differing format an experiment that maybe didn't work out as well as had been hoped for.
May I make a suggestion? Provide a link with each question to the original comment in the original story. That way, I can see who made the comment and what kind of discussion it sparked.
First, I admire RMS for being able to always stick to his guns. Let's admit it: there are those of us here who dislike RMS and do not agree with him. There are those who feel he is too inflexible, and that he is doing us a great disservice by being such a zealot. To these people I say, `Are you able to pursue something that's as important to you as Free Software is to Stallman for twenty years without losing your vigor? Are you still willing to fight as hard today as you were when you began?'.
I am unable to answer either question in the affirmative...yet.
Second: Robin, where are the poster's names? Why was Bruce the only person who received credit for his comments? Does this stem from the Katz-book thing? Can we expect to see only famous people owning their comments?
Did RMS do this?
Third: Though I hate to say it, the more I read about RMS' philosophy and the more I understand, the more I agree. I don't think he's going too far. When one side of an argument goes too far in one direction (UTICA, DMCA, etc), the other side must react in an equally forcefull manner to restore balance. The danger here is going too far after you have won.
Would it have been right for the UN to nuke Iraq after her armies had been destroyed? (Bad analogy, I know, but the only better one I can think of involves Tolkien, and I don't want to go there;-)
In any event, I'm glad the answers have finally been posted. I look forward to the other interviews that are still pending.
"But compare it to the IE 5.5 beta, or the iCab 1.9 alpha, and it looks very unfinished."
IE hasn't been rewritten from the ground up in years. I can't speak for the iCab (their website doen't specify how much of the code is new).
Keep in mind that everything you see in Mozilla is brand spanking new. To put it another way, imagine how much something like XEMACS would suck if it was written all at once (while developing new technologies (XUL) no less!).
"And if they don't like it, they're going to be turned off."
I have to agree with you here. But if you know why NN6 sucks so much, then you might want to enlighten the rest of the unwashed masses as to what you know (Goddess knows I've been doing enough of that lately:-).
"The DMCA was the response from the beleagured music industry to this new wave of blatent infringement of their, and their artist's, rights to profit from their work."
Ummm... who said anyone has a right to profit from anything?
I don't recall seeing anything in the Constitution referencing a person's right to `life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, and lots 'o cash'. Do please tell me where that's listed, hrm?
"I'd report the crashing problems, but I can't think of anything to say other than that no matter what I do, it crashes upon trying to load a new page. How helpful is that?"
Very. Look to the bottom of the chrome. You should see a build ID (mine's 2000022820 (M14)). Send that and your exact machine configuration (i.e. NT 4.0 build 1381 SP4.01 SR1, or whatever).
Maybe there's something that Mozilla (Sorry, can't call it Netscape) needs that doesn't work quite right for a particular coinfiguration. Whatever the case, they need to know.
Also, so long as you can reproduce the problem consistantly, it's a bug.
"Many of my old Java applets don't display correctly. This might just be my bad programming, but given my horrible memories of trying to get applets to function under Netscape/Mac I'm a bit worried."
FWIW, Mozilla (I'll still call it that, and Netscape be damned) renderd java.sun.com just fine. Maybe it is bad programming; I don't know how well you code.
I figure if it renders the java that the java folks write, it must be doing something right;-)
while(1){ printf("This is a very Good Thing"); printf("However, we cannot stop fighting now."); printf("There is much yet to do. This is merely another weapon in our arsenal");
if (Programmers.areNotBeingPersecuted){ break; }else{ continue; } }
"So you are in favour of race-hate campaigns, terrorist propagranda and bigotry in all its forms?"
<ASBESTOS SUIT="ON">
I am in favor of such things IF, and only if, all other sides can be fairly represented. Free speech is free speech only of all speech can be made. In other words, though I may not agree with your pro-Christian (belief|bigotry|zealotry), I will in no way hinder your ability to speak your mind or to communicate with others.
"It's that sort of thing which led to things like the Columbine massacre and bomb-threats to schools."
Actually, lack of parenting and an oppressive caste structure lead to Columbine. Bomb threats to schools were largely copy cat attempts.
Do tell me, AC; how does a six year old boy murdering a classmate with a(n illegal) handgun tie in with the spread of information or freedom of speech? Sounds like absentee parents to me.
"Children need to be protected from things like this which can lead them astray from living a decent life."
They also (IMHO) need to be informed of what's out there. Sticking your head (or your child's head) in the sand will not make the guns, bombs, hatred, or ignorace go away. Tell me, what's the short definition of ignorance? Not knowing. If children are not educated fully (made possible by *gasp* free speech and the spread of information), then how are they going to be prepared for the difficult issues in life? If you don't want your child to drink, which will be more effective: beating her ass when the subject comes up, or showing her what the effects of underage drinking can be?
"Trying to censor it out of existance is not dangerous...any good Christian and parent should attempt to do so as a matter of course."
I'm uncertain as to with which diety you hold allegience, but it does not sound like the God of Abraham.
This is the place you really want to go. Slashcode.com. Here, you'll find bug reports, feature requests, and the latest source (and a few trolls...just like home:-).
Also be sure to look through the mailing list archives... (at Server51, I believe)...
"Parents could set up a proxy server for every computer their kid has access to, which remembers every URL the kid visits; later, the parents could review the list..."
That's a great idea. However, I read something here yesterday (on jamie's library story) that makes this a bad idea.
If you're a kid, and your parents are abusive, you don't want them to see you researching how to [run away|get help| remove yourself from their control]. If you're a fifteen year-old girl, you may not want your dad to see that you accessed Planned Parenthood looking for information on contraceptives.
There are other examples as well. These are situations where complete disclosure could potentially put someone's life at risk (especially the first example).
Any suggestions as to how to get around this problem, while still implementing this idea?
Slashdot Mirror
"So, my question is - how can they be sure it is bug free?"
:-)
Keep in mind that it was Fast Compay that said the software is bug-free. They then turn around and say it had bugs in it
Anyway, the article mentions that the Shuttle Group uses a database to keep track of bugs. Whenever one bug is found, it is eliminated and then placed into the bug database. The testers then look over every other part of the codebase that has similar {contructs|calls|whatever} and analyze those parts for bugs. Considering how many entries are in the bug database, I would suspect that all of the code has been thoroughly gone over...
...which still doesn't ensure 100% percent that it's bug-free. Being human, we cannot, by definition, be 100% sure that a particular codebase is 100% bug-free. However, I think it's safe to say that the code is 99.995% bug-free.
I'd ride the Shuttle on those odds...
Here's my copy of DeCSS. Where's yours?
Disclaimer:IANAODBA.
I believe that the difference is WebDB. Basically, it's a section of stored procedures that allow you to generate HTML on the fly from whatever's in the database.
Advantages:
Disadvantages:
Just my $0.02 US
Here's my copy of DeCSS. Where's yours?
Something that may be outside the scope of your question, but I thought I'd include it too.
I recently attended a coference on EJB and CORBA. I met a guy who does customized home pages. He starts with a generic XML template. Based on user preferences, he has servlets (using a SAX compliant tool; look here) parse the user-defined template and insert whatever info is needed.
The coolest thing about this is the fact that it's all very lightweight. Also, the process is infinately scaleable (if you want to go full blown EJB and CORBA).
Mail me for an example...
Here's my copy of DeCSS. Where's yours?
I was actually thinking of the Shire after the Hobbits' return.
:-)
Saruman was in control of the shire and doing his best to destroy it. Trees had been cut, sherrifs were hassling the populace, and black smoke was choking the air.
After the battle in the square, Saruman could have been easily taken, tried, and executed for his crimes. As a matter of fact, that's what most of the town wanted.
Frodo said no.
Worm was the one who killed Saruman. Frodo knew when to pursue, and when to lay off.
That was actually the example I was thinking of...
(Tolkien ru13z)
Here's my copy of DeCSS. Where's yours?
Thanks for the reply. :-)
:-)
I thought it kind of odd that the replys were set up that way. I mean, of course I could go back to the original interview and look over the posts easily enough (in fact, I remembered almost all of the questions and could peg about three people to their comments without looking), but I digress...
I consider the differing format an experiment that maybe didn't work out as well as had been hoped for.
May I make a suggestion? Provide a link with each question to the original comment in the original story. That way, I can see who made the comment and what kind of discussion it sparked.
I can also give credit where credit's due
Thanks
Here's my copy of DeCSS. Where's yours?
First, I admire RMS for being able to always stick to his guns. Let's admit it: there are those of us here who dislike RMS and do not agree with him. There are those who feel he is too inflexible, and that he is doing us a great disservice by being such a zealot. To these people I say, `Are you able to pursue something that's as important to you as Free Software is to Stallman for twenty years without losing your vigor? Are you still willing to fight as hard today as you were when you began?'.
;-)
I am unable to answer either question in the affirmative...yet.
Second: Robin, where are the poster's names? Why was Bruce the only person who received credit for his comments? Does this stem from the Katz-book thing? Can we expect to see only famous people owning their comments?
Did RMS do this?
Third: Though I hate to say it, the more I read about RMS' philosophy and the more I understand, the more I agree. I don't think he's going too far. When one side of an argument goes too far in one direction (UTICA, DMCA, etc), the other side must react in an equally forcefull manner to restore balance. The danger here is going too far after you have won.
Would it have been right for the UN to nuke Iraq after her armies had been destroyed? (Bad analogy, I know, but the only better one I can think of involves Tolkien, and I don't want to go there
In any event, I'm glad the answers have finally been posted. I look forward to the other interviews that are still pending.
Here's my copy of DeCSS. Where's yours?
s/Microsoft/Apple/gi
`s' search and replace 0 or more instances of whatever is after the first slash with whatever is in the second slash.
`g' globally
`i' case-insensitive
Here's my copy of DeCSS. Where's yours?
"But compare it to the IE 5.5 beta, or the iCab 1.9 alpha, and it looks very unfinished."
:-).
IE hasn't been rewritten from the ground up in years. I can't speak for the iCab (their website doen't specify how much of the code is new).
Keep in mind that everything you see in Mozilla is brand spanking new. To put it another way, imagine how much something like XEMACS would suck if it was written all at once (while developing new technologies (XUL) no less!).
"And if they don't like it, they're going to be turned off."
I have to agree with you here. But if you know why NN6 sucks so much, then you might want to enlighten the rest of the unwashed masses as to what you know (Goddess knows I've been doing enough of that lately
Here's my copy of DeCSS. Where's yours?
Meals Ready to Eat...
Three lies for the price of one.
Here's my copy of DeCSS. Where's yours?
"The DMCA was the response from the beleagured music industry to this new wave of blatent infringement of their, and their artist's, rights to profit from their work."
Ummm... who said anyone has a right to profit from anything?
I don't recall seeing anything in the Constitution referencing a person's right to `life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, and lots 'o cash'. Do please tell me where that's listed, hrm?
Here's my copy of DeCSS. Where's yours?
"I can't get rid of that annoying side bar like I can with Mozilla"
Click on the lighter blue area on the outside frame of the sidebar.
zantispam (who has NS6 running on a different machine and is posting this with M14)
Here's my copy of DeCSS. Where's yours?
"I'd report the crashing problems, but I can't think of anything to say other than that no matter what I do, it crashes upon trying to load a new page. How helpful is that?"
Very. Look to the bottom of the chrome. You should see a build ID (mine's 2000022820 (M14)). Send that and your exact machine configuration (i.e. NT 4.0 build 1381 SP4.01 SR1, or whatever).
Maybe there's something that Mozilla (Sorry, can't call it Netscape) needs that doesn't work quite right for a particular coinfiguration. Whatever the case, they need to know.
Also, so long as you can reproduce the problem consistantly, it's a bug.
(Posted with M14)
Here's my copy of DeCSS. Where's yours?
"My question is, what happened to 5? Did Netscape forget how to count or are they trying to "Outversion" IE?"
Netscape 5 was the original codebase to get open-sourced(TM). It stank so bad that the Mozilla guys threw it away and started from scratch.
Here's my copy of DeCSS. Where's yours?
"Many of my old Java applets don't display correctly. This might just be my bad programming, but given my horrible memories of trying to get applets to function under Netscape/Mac I'm a bit worried."
;-)
FWIW, Mozilla (I'll still call it that, and Netscape be damned) renderd java.sun.com just fine. Maybe it is bad programming; I don't know how well you code.
I figure if it renders the java that the java folks write, it must be doing something right
Here's my copy of DeCSS. Where's yours?
"Take a look at Dynamic Drive and see how many of the DHTML scripts you can get to run."
Hell, I can't get *any* of them to run in Communicator 4.72. And I do DHTML on Netscape for a living.
Would you happen to know why that is?
Here's my copy of DeCSS. Where's yours?
while(1){
printf("This is a very Good Thing");
printf("However, we cannot stop fighting now.");
printf("There is much yet to do. This is merely another weapon in our arsenal");
if (Programmers.areNotBeingPersecuted){
break;
}else{
continue;
}
}
Here's my copy of DeCSS. Where's yours?
...for that last comment. Those responsible for sacking the people who were sacked have been sacked.
Here's my copy of DeCSS. Where's yours?
...one copy for each distro.
*ducks*
Here's my copy of DeCSS. Where's yours?
Finger, mount, fsck, fsck, fsck, unmount, done.
;-p
Or something like that.
Here's my copy of DeCSS. Where's yours?
"So you are in favour of race-hate campaigns, terrorist propagranda and bigotry in all its forms?"
<ASBESTOS SUIT="ON">
I am in favor of such things IF , and only if, all other sides can be fairly represented. Free speech is free speech only of all speech can be made. In other words, though I may not agree with your pro-Christian (belief|bigotry|zealotry), I will in no way hinder your ability to speak your mind or to communicate with others.
"It's that sort of thing which led to things like the Columbine massacre and bomb-threats to schools."
Actually, lack of parenting and an oppressive caste structure lead to Columbine. Bomb threats to schools were largely copy cat attempts.
Do tell me, AC; how does a six year old boy murdering a classmate with a(n illegal) handgun tie in with the spread of information or freedom of speech? Sounds like absentee parents to me.
"Children need to be protected from things like this which can lead them astray from living a decent life."
They also (IMHO) need to be informed of what's out there. Sticking your head (or your child's head) in the sand will not make the guns, bombs, hatred, or ignorace go away. Tell me, what's the short definition of ignorance? Not knowing. If children are not educated fully (made possible by *gasp* free speech and the spread of information), then how are they going to be prepared for the difficult issues in life? If you don't want your child to drink, which will be more effective: beating her ass when the subject comes up, or showing her what the effects of underage drinking can be?
"Trying to censor it out of existance is not dangerous...any good Christian and parent should attempt to do so as a matter of course."
I'm uncertain as to with which diety you hold allegience, but it does not sound like the God of Abraham.
Here's my copy of DeCSS. Where's yours?
"Please folks, don't get your image of native Americans from John Wayne films."
Where, pray, does your image come from?
(Genuine questtion)
Here's my copy of DeCSS. Where's yours?
Pertinant links:
:-).
Here, at Server51.net, is some info on SLASH.
-and-
This is the place you really want to go. Slashcode.com. Here, you'll find bug reports, feature requests, and the latest source (and a few trolls...just like home
Also be sure to look through the mailing list archives... (at Server51, I believe)...
Here's my copy of DeCSS. Where's yours?
...to this episode was seeing Gillian with a BFG ;-)
Anyone else think that was cool?
BTW, I missed the Cops episode. Did that one suck more than this one?
Here's my copy of DeCSS. Where's yours?
"Parents could set up a proxy server for every computer their kid has access to, which remembers every URL the kid visits; later, the parents could review the list..."
That's a great idea. However, I read something here yesterday (on jamie's library story) that makes this a bad idea.
If you're a kid, and your parents are abusive, you don't want them to see you researching how to [run away|get help| remove yourself from their control]. If you're a fifteen year-old girl, you may not want your dad to see that you accessed Planned Parenthood looking for information on contraceptives.
There are other examples as well. These are situations where complete disclosure could potentially put someone's life at risk (especially the first example).
Any suggestions as to how to get around this problem, while still implementing this idea?
Here's my copy of DeCSS. Where's yours?
Real Software Engineers
Real Computer Scientists
These and many others can be found here.
And, to anyone who might know, the evolut ion of a programmer page has code that looks like LISP (senior year in high school). Is this so?
Also, will the code for the master programmer compile?
Here's my copy of DeCSS. Where's yours?