Some companies are not entirely or at all subsidized by the tax payer. These companies do have to recoup their investments, and I believe drug companies are a pretty good example of this. I do not know that we subsize them at all.
I think you would find it difficult to find a company that doesn't benefit in someway from it or a supplier being subsidized, or otherwise effected by government controls (tariffs, tax breaks, etc).
I believe drug companies benefit greatly from research done in publicly funded universities, I think they are a particularly bad example.
Of course if you consider any of the ad blocking as somehow "cheating" anyone, then arguably forcing the advertiser to have to pay for something you were never even shown is "cheating" them.
This guy is effectively cheating a good source of revenue out of a photographer who is trying to earn a living
My reading of the article was that he went along with the terms of the photographer, simply lemented that it was not done differently.
As an aside, and unrelated, I think that "analog" photography is a much "truer" art form Just as many people think painting is much "truer" than photography. Whatever, art is art.
I had a working Perl based AIM bot before Aug 2000. Never did much with it, but i have plenty of people who knew about it and worked with it. This is such incredible BS.
but I'll go further to express my view that this is an anti-patriotic, and un-American statement in this time of crisis
I'd argue the opposite. At a time when everyone is agreeing it is even more important to question what is being said. Now the issue of the election is perhaps not the best example, but at times like this it becomes even more difficult, and more important, to disagree with the majority, even if it might be "un-American"
My roomate and I got off the subway at the walls st stop just after the second plane hit, had no idea till i got out what was going on. Saw the smoke when I got in the subway in the East Village, but thought it was local.
Went to our office on Broadway and Wall, watched the first tower collapse from the window there, that was all it took for me to decide to get out of there. It was like being in a blizzard out there, couldn't see the sun, couldn't breath too well. I managed to get pretty far away by the time the second tower came down, but my roomate was pretty close. (still on broadway). I am still amazed that none of my friends (many of whom work in the area) were hurt. One was 30 feet away from the south tower when the second place hit, he ran for his life and ended up ok.
I walked home, and feel pretty safe now.
I used to be able to see the wtc towers from my room, but no more.
my heart goes out to all how didn't make it. What a day.
The idea of ad feedback is a good one. There are several times where i have stopped reading an ad or even a site because it was continually displaying some incredibly annoying ad. As for the karma stuff, I figure I would ignore that, much like I do the message posting karma, I just don't care that much.
As for pop-ups, the day slashdot shows a pop-up ad is the day I stop reading it.
In other words, how can GNU be so holy if the little copyright "c" is meaningless? I'm curious as to thoughts.
First off, I think people are amazingly good at holding countless contradictory ideas simultaneously, so this kind of attitude doesn't really surprise me.
Personally I think that the idea of Intellectual Property is inherently bankrupt. The only ideas you "own" are those ideas inside your head. Now I have heard all of the arguments for patents and copyright, and realize that their are currently some societal advantages to having a concept of IP. This doesn't however, sway me from the ideal that IP is bogus, it just proves that creating a productive society without IP is arguably difficult.
That said, when given the choice I gpl all of my code. If I must play by societies rules, then I am going to do my best to "force" my code to be open. Is this hypocritical? Perhaps, but until we enact a system without IP it is the way I have chosen to "fight".
People that use it argue that they don't mean to imply that homosexuality is bad when they say it and and I believe that a lot of them don't. Unfortunately, this implication is still made.
An old girlfriend of mine used to make the same comment. My argument was that we had just created another meaning of the word. I mean, no one went around yelling at people for using "gay" to refer to homosexuals, since that implies that all homosexuals are happy, right? I'll admit that using gay to mean bad probably did originally intend to make the implications between homosexualtiy and bad, but like you said, I doubt many people who use it now are aware of this.
Of coruse this all said, I no longer use gay to mean bad, though when I hang out with people who still do I slip sometimes.
Just to be different I thought I'd server up a tarball of the soruce via finger. Just finger css@darkcorner.net, pipe it to a file, edit out the top few lines, and untar it. Does that count as mirroring it?
hmm, it seems the legal@ and abuse@ addresses are bouncing, anyways here is what I said:
I am writing in regards to your recent childish behavior towards the Internet artist group EToy. Such a clear abuse of money and power is very disappointing, and entirely uncalled for. Neither they nor their site did anything to warrent your attack. While the name similarity was unfortunate, it was just that, unfortunate. Nothing entitles you to a totally unambiguous domain name, and if you were concerned with this, you should have chosen another name. EToy.com was in existance for over TWO YEARS when you registered the domain.
I, and numerous friends and relatives who I have spoken with, will not be patronizing your site this Christmas season, or anytime soon. While I am confident that the decision against EToy will not stand in any court with a knowledgeable judge, I ask you to voluntarily stop action against EToy and win back some small part of the reputation and respect you have lost.
But isn't DIVX at least as dependent on some kind of copy-protection scheme as DVD?
Yes it is, and IIRC there was a small device you could build/buy that would allow you to watch a DIVX movie without paying for it. Copy protection is a waste of time either way.
This reminds me -- I've got to get a CD-R drive soon. I suppose you all know what I'm going to use it for. All I can say is, if the industry doesn't take steps to protect what's theirs (their intellectual property), they'll get exactly what they deserve.
This is so totally the wrong attitude. The studios will never be able to totally protect their IP with technology. Look at the cold war, or the last 10 years (at least) of software publishing, you can't beet technology with technology. As it becomes more and more obvious that it is impossible to long-term protect your IP, I think we are going to see a few shifts in the way society thinks.
Think of it like this: you leave your front door unlocked everyday while you're away at work, and one day, a thief breaks in and steals everything. Will your neighbours feel sorry for you? Should they?
I would sure hope they would feel sorry for me. I shouldn't have to lock my doors everyday to be safe, and in many places in the world I still don't.
don't let society change you for the worst, change society for the better.
Occasionally, I just feel the need to scream. Cant do that at work, so I'll post something Heh, I feel this way a lot.
You are so right. Damn it annoys me that _I_ get blamed if I try to steal a car. Just what are those car manufacturers thinking by not putting in better car alarms? Its all their fault.
Interesting point, but I don't think it is the correct analogy.
The true hackers are the ones that discover the problem, not those that exploit it all over. It is not that you shouldn't get blamed for trying to steal a car, however you shouldn't be blamed for pointing out that the car company built a car that lets anyone in if they tap just right on the door. The car manufacturer _should_ be held to a certain level of competence, and in the US is.
>just keep deluding yourself with the belief that hackers are heroes ok, and you can continue deluding yourself thinking that for every person that makes public a security problem, there isn't 100 bad guys already exploiting the problem.
Whats the quote? "If ignorance is bliss, I hope I'm never happy."
Shockwave Rider is a great book by the way, I believe it is in there that he talks about "tape worms" a concept that ashe describes it matches viri pretty closely.
Actually the core gnome people don't support either, it is others who build the rpms. And the gnomers are very interested in having.debs too, it is just that at the moment, the rpm builders are a tad faster. Or at least this is how I think it is -- not to dash any conspiracy theories or anything.
Personally I am torn. I think that MS has done some great things over the years. They have also hurt a lot of companies and done a lot of things that I feel are wrong. However I have trouble having too much sympathy for the PC industry. Many people have known about these things for years, yet they continue to support MS products.
There are other products out on the market. Give them a look. Everyone complains about how horrible MS is, and then goes and says how there is nothing else, so they have to use it. Give some of these other products a chance. If they aren't perfect work with the vendors. Heck, the earliest versions of Windows really sucked, but it has gotten better.
While I admit Microsoft is big and ugly right now, they weren't always. And it really is hard to stay on the top. I think MS saw this fact, and did everything possible to stay on top. Personally I understand this, who wouldn't want to stay #1. However to think that you did all this for the good of the industry takes some pretty big self deluding.
>This whole innovative spiel has always baffled me. Everyone in here is right on the button to >proclaim the "lack of innovation" of Microsoft while simultaneously implicitly implying others, >such as Linux, are chock full of innovation. This is quite an interesting claim.
I have yet to hear anyone say or imply that anything else is "innovating" either (I don't think many people even know what that means anymore). Instead people are saying MS which _claims_ to innovate, does not. There is a very big difference.
> Maybe a dual boot? Can lilo find happiness on a > laptop dual booting to NT?
A friend has some thinkpad, I have no idea which model, and he has it dual booting between linux and NT, though I think he uses NT's boot loader and not lilo. Not sure what it took him to get this going, but it definetly works.
ouch! - "Open-source software group GNU" - I am sure Stallman must be thrilled with that.
A bit more on topic, I've been using GPG for a little while now, and have been real happy. As someone who likes to do too much, other than integration with mail clients, what other GUI interfaces would people want to use gpg with? I have used NAI's gui for windows, and have been thinking of doing something similar for Linux (or maybe just helping out gnomegpg) but am curious as to what other people think.
>OK, now Redhat has gifted 1000 open source >developers (people who seem to hate money, > because nearly 2/3 of all invited didn't buy in).
I still don't get those numbers, but perhaps the emails went to people away, dead accounts, people who just didn't have the capital up front, etc.
>There is now one group of Linux supporters who are invested in Redhat and another group, >whose contributions to Linux will incrase nothing but their peer recognition
I disagree with this, I am sure a lot of people who contributed to "Red Hat" will continue to contribute for the same reasons. I recieved the offer but got rejected by E*Trade, however I feel I can say that my reasons would not have changed.
>As a non RH share holder, I feel no reason to >contribute to RH anymore. But I think that my >efforts will be invested better into something >like Debian.
I don't see why you would no longer want to contribute to RH. You weren't getting anything (read money) for it before, and still aren't. How has anything changed? The only thing that has changed is the people that benefit from it. Now shareholders benefit, and not just employees.
Besides, I don't know too many people who contribute "just" to Red Hat. Most projects (including mine) are used in multiple distributions, so I am contributing to everyone. Even if you work on something Red Hat specific, like the installer, well it is GPL'ed, so you are still contributing to everyone. That in my mind is the beauty of how Red Hat works.
And yes, I run both Red Hat and Debian, and distrbute packages for both.
>Do the math to see why RedHat's strategy to grow the market for Linux is the right one. It boils >down to if you want a potential market of half a million or half a billion.
I agree with this right now. My only question is what happens if (when) this is no longer the case. When everyone has a bit more equal share, and all of a sudden Linux-competiter-x is just as good a target as Microsoft. Will the companies stay as "friendly" and community minded then?
I am hoping that what we are seeing with Red Hat and all anmd the way they do business is really different, and that it is not just the circumstances that are different. As I like to say, only time will tell, though hopefully all of us can make a difference too.
Slashdot Mirror
Some companies are not entirely or at all subsidized by the tax payer. These companies do have to recoup their investments, and I believe drug companies are a pretty good example of this. I do not know that we subsize them at all.
I think you would find it difficult to find a company that doesn't benefit in someway from it or a supplier being subsidized, or otherwise effected by government controls (tariffs, tax breaks, etc).
I believe drug companies benefit greatly from research done in publicly funded universities, I think they are a particularly bad example.
Of course if you consider any of the ad blocking as somehow "cheating" anyone, then arguably forcing the advertiser to have to pay for something you were never even shown is "cheating" them.
Back in college I had a drive that would do this with any CD it couldn't read. Tons of fun.
-chris
This guy is effectively cheating a good source of revenue out of a photographer who is trying to earn a living
My reading of the article was that he went along with the terms of the photographer, simply lemented that it was not done differently.
As an aside, and unrelated, I think that "analog" photography is a much "truer" art form
Just as many people think painting is much "truer" than photography. Whatever, art is art.
-chris
Studio Appartments? That is more than twice the size of my old 3 bedroom!
I had a working Perl based AIM bot before Aug 2000. Never did much with it, but i have plenty of people who knew about it and worked with it. This is such incredible BS.
but I'll go further to express my view that this is an anti-patriotic, and un-American statement in this time of crisis
I'd argue the opposite. At a time when everyone is agreeing it is even more important to question what is being said. Now the issue of the election is perhaps not the best example, but at times like this it becomes even more difficult, and more important, to disagree with the majority, even if it might be "un-American"
-chris
Not sure if anyone will even read this far but...
My roomate and I got off the subway at the walls st stop just after the second plane hit, had no idea till i got out what was going on. Saw the smoke when I got in the subway in the East Village, but thought it was local.
Went to our office on Broadway and Wall, watched the first tower collapse from the window there, that was all it took for me to decide to get out of there. It was like being in a blizzard out there, couldn't see the sun, couldn't breath too well. I managed to get pretty far away by the time the second tower came down, but my roomate was pretty close. (still on broadway). I am still amazed that none of my friends (many of whom work in the area) were hurt. One was 30 feet away from the south tower when the second place hit, he ran for his life and ended up ok.
I walked home, and feel pretty safe now.
I used to be able to see the wtc towers from my room, but no more.
my heart goes out to all how didn't make it. What a day.
The idea of ad feedback is a good one. There are several times where i have stopped reading an ad or even a site because it was continually displaying some incredibly annoying ad. As for the karma stuff, I figure I would ignore that, much like I do the message posting karma, I just don't care that much.
As for pop-ups, the day slashdot shows a pop-up ad is the day I stop reading it.
In other words, how can GNU be so holy if the little copyright "c" is meaningless? I'm curious as to thoughts.
First off, I think people are amazingly good at holding countless contradictory ideas simultaneously, so this kind of attitude doesn't really surprise me.
Personally I think that the idea of Intellectual Property is inherently bankrupt. The only ideas you "own" are those ideas inside your head. Now I have heard all of the arguments for patents and copyright, and realize that their are currently some societal advantages to having a concept of IP. This doesn't however, sway me from the ideal that IP is bogus, it just proves that creating a productive society without IP is arguably difficult.
That said, when given the choice I gpl all of my code. If I must play by societies rules, then I am going to do my best to "force" my code to be open. Is this hypocritical? Perhaps, but until we enact a system without IP it is the way I have chosen to "fight".
People that use it argue that they don't mean to imply that homosexuality is bad when they say it and and I believe that a lot of them don't. Unfortunately, this implication is still made.
An old girlfriend of mine used to make the same comment. My argument was that we had just created another meaning of the word. I mean, no one went around yelling at people for using "gay" to refer to homosexuals, since that implies that all homosexuals are happy, right? I'll admit that using gay to mean bad probably did originally intend to make the implications between homosexualtiy and bad, but like you said, I doubt many people who use it now are aware of this.
Of coruse this all said, I no longer use gay to mean bad, though when I hang out with people who still do I slip sometimes.
Just to be different I thought I'd server up a tarball of the soruce via finger. Just finger css@darkcorner.net, pipe it to a file, edit out the top few lines, and untar it. Does that count as mirroring it?
hmm, it seems the legal@ and abuse@ addresses are bouncing, anyways here is what I said:
I am writing in regards to your recent childish behavior towards the Internet
artist group EToy. Such a clear abuse of money and power is very disappointing,
and entirely uncalled for. Neither they nor their site did anything to warrent
your attack. While the name similarity was unfortunate, it was just that,
unfortunate. Nothing entitles you to a totally unambiguous domain name,
and if you were concerned with this, you should have chosen another name.
EToy.com was in existance for over TWO YEARS when you registered the
domain.
I, and numerous friends and relatives who I have spoken with, will not be
patronizing your site this Christmas season, or anytime soon. While I am
confident that the decision against EToy will not stand in any court with
a knowledgeable judge, I ask you to voluntarily stop action against EToy
and win back some small part of the reputation and respect you have lost.
But isn't DIVX at least as dependent on some kind of copy-protection scheme as DVD?
Yes it is, and IIRC there was a small device you could build/buy that would allow you to watch a DIVX movie without paying for it. Copy protection is a waste of time either way.
This reminds me -- I've got to get a CD-R drive soon. I suppose you all know what I'm going to use it for. All I can say is, if the industry doesn't take steps to protect what's theirs (their intellectual property), they'll get exactly what they deserve.
This is so totally the wrong attitude. The studios will never be able to totally protect their IP with technology. Look at the cold war, or the last 10 years (at least) of software publishing, you can't beet technology with technology. As it becomes more and more obvious that it is impossible to long-term protect your IP, I think we are going to see a few shifts in the way society thinks.
Think of it like this: you leave your front door unlocked everyday while you're away at work, and one day, a thief breaks in and steals everything. Will your neighbours feel sorry for you? Should they?
I would sure hope they would feel sorry for me. I shouldn't have to lock my doors everyday to be safe, and in many places in the world I still don't.
don't let society change you for the worst, change society for the better.
Occasionally, I just feel the need to scream. Cant do that at work, so I'll post something
Heh, I feel this way a lot.
You are so right. Damn it annoys me that _I_ get blamed if I try to steal a car. Just what are those car manufacturers thinking by not putting in better car alarms? Its all their fault.
Interesting point, but I don't think it is the correct analogy.
The true hackers are the ones that discover the problem, not those that exploit it all over. It is not that you shouldn't get blamed for trying to steal a car, however you shouldn't be blamed for pointing out that the car company built a car that lets anyone in if they tap just right on the door. The car manufacturer _should_ be held to a certain level of competence, and in the US is.
>just keep deluding yourself with the belief that hackers are heroes
ok, and you can continue deluding yourself thinking that for every person that makes public a security problem, there isn't 100 bad guys already exploiting the problem.
Whats the quote? "If ignorance is bliss, I hope I'm never happy."
Shockwave Rider is a great book by the way, I believe it is in there that he talks about "tape worms" a concept that ashe describes it matches viri pretty closely.
Actually the core gnome people don't support either, it is others who build the rpms. And the gnomers are very interested in having .debs too, it is just that at the moment, the rpm builders are a tad faster. Or at least this is how I think it is -- not to dash any conspiracy theories or anything.
'cept some of us have been reading for much longer than we have had an account :)
Personally I am torn. I think that MS has done some great things over the years. They have also hurt a lot of companies and done a lot of things that I feel are wrong. However I have trouble having too much sympathy for the PC industry. Many people have known about these things for years, yet they continue to support MS products.
There are other products out on the market. Give them a look. Everyone complains about how horrible MS is, and then goes and says how there is nothing else, so they have to use it. Give some of these other products a chance. If they aren't perfect work with the vendors. Heck, the earliest versions of Windows really sucked, but it has gotten better.
While I admit Microsoft is big and ugly right now, they weren't always. And it really is hard to stay on the top. I think MS saw this fact, and did everything possible to stay on top. Personally I understand this, who wouldn't want to stay #1. However to think that you did all this for the good of the industry takes some pretty big self deluding.
ok 'nuff ramblings,
>This whole innovative spiel has always baffled me. Everyone in here is right on the button to
>proclaim the "lack of innovation" of Microsoft while simultaneously implicitly implying others,
>such as Linux, are chock full of innovation. This is quite an interesting claim.
I have yet to hear anyone say or imply that anything else is "innovating" either (I don't think many people even know what that means anymore). Instead people are saying MS which _claims_ to innovate, does not. There is a very big difference.
> Maybe a dual boot? Can lilo find happiness on a
> laptop dual booting to NT?
A friend has some thinkpad, I have no idea which model, and he has it dual booting between linux and NT, though I think he uses NT's boot loader and not lilo. Not sure what it took him to get this going, but it definetly works.
ouch! - "Open-source software group GNU" - I am sure Stallman must be thrilled with that.
A bit more on topic, I've been using GPG for a little while now, and have been real happy. As someone who likes to do too much, other than integration with mail clients, what other GUI interfaces would people want to use gpg with? I have used NAI's gui for windows, and have been thinking of doing something similar for Linux (or maybe just helping out gnomegpg) but am curious as to what other people think.
>OK, now Redhat has gifted 1000 open source >developers (people who seem to hate money,
> because nearly 2/3 of all invited didn't buy in).
I still don't get those numbers, but perhaps the emails went to people away, dead accounts, people who just didn't have the capital up front, etc.
>There is now one group of Linux supporters who are invested in Redhat and another group,
>whose contributions to Linux will incrase nothing but their peer recognition
I disagree with this, I am sure a lot of people who contributed to "Red Hat" will continue to contribute for the same reasons.
I recieved the offer but got rejected by E*Trade, however I feel I can say that my reasons would not have changed.
>As a non RH share holder, I feel no reason to
>contribute to RH anymore. But I think that my
>efforts will be invested better into something
>like Debian.
I don't see why you would no longer want to contribute to RH. You weren't getting anything (read money) for it before, and still aren't. How has anything changed? The only thing that has changed is the people that benefit from it. Now shareholders benefit, and not just employees.
Besides, I don't know too many people who contribute "just" to Red Hat. Most projects (including mine) are used in multiple distributions, so I am contributing to everyone. Even if you work on something Red Hat specific, like the installer, well it is GPL'ed, so you are still contributing to everyone. That in my mind is the beauty of how Red Hat works.
And yes, I run both Red Hat and Debian, and distrbute packages for both.
>Do the math to see why RedHat's strategy to grow the market for Linux is the right one. It boils
>down to if you want a potential market of half a million or half a billion.
I agree with this right now. My only question is what happens if (when) this is no longer the case. When everyone has a bit more equal share, and all of a sudden Linux-competiter-x is just as good a target as Microsoft. Will the companies stay as "friendly" and community minded then?
I am hoping that what we are seeing with Red Hat and all anmd the way they do business is really different, and that it is not just the circumstances that are different. As I like to say, only time will tell, though hopefully all of us can make a difference too.