I get what you're saying, but we have seen democrats do things that go against democratic ideals/equates to hypocrisy, likewise with (insert any group or individual of any part of the political spectrum). Thus why say that it even matters if it's a group's ideal, I guess is what I question?
When are people going to realize that there are shitty politicians on all sides of the spectrum, not just left or right leaning? Only moderates tend to be the non-shitty folks.
I actually don't like or care for the "most often, etc" crap. My MP3 player already has that option, but I find that flat out shuffle tends to hit those random songs sometimes too. Ogg/flac/aac sound like a small difference but it's actually huge. Not only is the audio quality better, but they tend to take up a lot less space for the same bitrates. MP3 is nice up to a certain point, not that I have a problem with ti at all. However, ogg/flac/aac are a definite step above.
These other apps worked without hindrance too. That has 0 to do with it. Apple banned them because they work; in fact if they didn't, apple probably wouldn't ban them. The fact that they allowed people to do things the phone currently blocks but is capable of, should tell you a thing or two.
Remember apple's "works out the box" motto the next time you have a patch from apple that breaks a program. Or windows. Or anything other than linux.
In the open source world, you can write an app yourself and solutions are not limited or take huge amounts of time. Lots of people just program stuff casually in the evenings and go a long way with it, usually/eventually can even make a living off of it. The difference in open source is you can take an existing program that doesn't have something you want, modify it, and use it/give it to others. Good luck doing that on anything non GPL.
That may sound nice and all, but it won't necessarily hold up in court. I'd like to see developers go against it and show that. This is more like suppression of developers, but apparently apple doesn't know when to make a buck off their own fanbase.
It's about as accurate as a lie detector. You know, because we all know lie detectors are so perfect. It's not like people know how to game them or anything. The "you can't hide your true intentions; your body will know" part is a 100% fallacy and guaranteed to not be accurate.
I'm disappointed; gov't spending on some stupid shit here really.
Hmm, the world does. Simply because you cannot control (insert any object/thing/software/etc) the minute it's released.
For software, the minute you have a.exe, you have the source for a program whether the developer wishes it or not. This stuff is basic enough to find the source within minutes. There is absolutely no way to stop someone from reading the source of a program from the executable. Thus you can't really stop anyone, and you have no legal proof (DMCA does nothing if you can't prove someone decompiled an executable).
Thus, whether they like it or not, there is a public demand to try a game without buying aka software sharing. This in a million forms, has been around since before software existed in the form of mix tapes, videotapes, or even basic audio recordings earlier yet. How about even music (Chamber) after a composer creates it? Same idea. They (ignorant 21st century folk) just can't give up the control.
The smart folks embrace the trials, the ignorant ones simply try to stop you (and are shown to be pricks when they act like children that refuse to give up a toy).
I agree about second jobs, etc. However, 100$ to spare for emergencies, etc? You wouldn't even be able to afford going out for lunch, etc. Literally its borderline of basic living only.
Cars need oil changes. People need haircuts.
Haircut = 10, oil change = 20-25. You wouldn't even be able to afford a cellphone. I agree, you could live on the most basic of all basic levels. However, you wouldn't even break even in reality.
Helpdesk has nothing to do with it, on the base. You forgot that cost of living varies drastically across the entire country.
$12/hr might be survivable in Virginia or Texas, but in Chicago people have a hard time surviving on $18-20/hr.
When the cheapest food to survive a day runs around 1-2$ (thus about 4-6$ a day foodwise) and gas runs almost 4$, trust me that 12$/hr helpdesk job will not keep people afloat, even if it was $12/hr cash.
Don't forget that employers employ people to make a profit, not a loss; thus $12/hr is probably turning about$20-50/hr profit.
Helpdesk itself varies from company to company. I know on mine some ofo the employees are borderline retarded and helpdesk has to show them anything more complex than what a mouse is.
Why pay another company? Well, ever heard of Unisys? Lets just say you pay for what you get. Those suckers can barely speak english, and about 1 in 20 of them are competent. Their managers are good IT helpdesk. The rest don't understand you, don't listen, don't know how to do their job, and good luck understanding them.
Guess how many companies offshore to unisys? Tons.
Heh, nice to see a structured debate for once on the internet and on slashdot, no less.
What I'm saying is what difference does it make if the copy is physical or not? There is no ownership by the creator of the software whether a physical or electronic copy is created (or merely passed on back and forth). There is an inherent promotional value that the software maintains irregardless of it's current form (tell a friend,etc).
I would love to see EA hurt by watching the company go up in flames. However, I'm not going to take action and sadly they probably wouldn't learn even if they did. Damned if you do, damned if you don't, they think they should have consumer control.
I agree; however, if these street dudes who sell bootleg equivalents or flea market equivalents (I'm assuming thats what you mean) are enough that you like something and shitty enough quality that it justifies buying the real version, then what? I've done exactly that myself before, where a bootleg of a movie was crap so I decided I wanted the real thing after having seen the bootleg and since people value my opinion about 15-20 copies of the movie (dvd version) were sold. It's not like these people don't know how to do a netflix rental+burn, just people are reasonable if not treated like shit (aka how I treat them in comparison to the mpaa/riaa). In a sense, it is indeed an evaluation copy. The thing people don't get is an evaluation copy needs to be SUFFICIENT. It needs to be something that doesn't expire, or has limited gameplay. Just don't have it be the finished product. Like finding half of a movie on the "demo", or half of a game on the demo. You know sure as hell people will buy full at that point if they like it. These 2 week demos for some games, are pointless.
Simple example: If wow allowed ALL players to be able to play up to lvl60 chars and through old nax for free on blizz hosted servers at no subscription cost, they would bring in so many new players even before LOTLK than I can hardly describe. Evaluations need to become longer as a product becomes more detailed. If you have a whole Spiderman 1-3 series of movies, give away 1 and 2 as a 100% free evaluation with a discount if you buy the third when you turn in the evaluation or something. This is honestly truly basic promotional value here.
Okay, it doesn't matter what they borrow. If the first friend can play or not doesn't reflect, since there still isn't a physical copy. The "borrowing" doesn't have to be physical at all.
If you are selling something pirated, who is to say that the people who bought the illegitimate copy would have bought the original? No, its not that easy. You cannot dictate the minds of the consumers. Nobody can.
(note, I'm agreeing with you)
and sadly, people like oreilly don't understand anything and represent the kind of folks that probably push legislature about the internet. Disturbing.
If you charge too much, or someone wants to try your game before deciding if you deserve their money, they are entitled to do so.
"Pirating" a game fits that purpose directly.
If someone doesn't have enough money to pay for a game but wants to play it, well, he can "pirate" it too.
would any of these scenarios constitute a sale? no.
The best comparison is like 2 people having a PC, and one borrows the game from the friend. No sale is necessarily made, and no copy is truly "distributed". Meanwhile, does the company get something? Yes, promotional value. Could those people possibly in some indirect fashion lead to others buying the game? Absolutely. However, when it comes to software, there is only one copy. After that is made copies onto other things, technically there is nothing more to be stolen. It has already been released and there is no way to prevent copying at this point.
Cars are not like software. Why? Because a car is a physical loss if it is taken. "taking" software in any frame of mind is more like saying "you can't breathe our air unless you do it in our specially approved area" and well, guess what happens if we don't breathe that air? Guess what happens to "your" air? Nothing.
People cannot embrace piracy because it's a false term. They are associating things indirectly through the wrong terms. "Intellectual property" is an oxymoron in and of itself. When someone refers to a game as IP, or as piracy, they are associating things that are not the case. Piracy would be more accurate simply being called "copying", ala mixtapes. Calling it piracy demonstrates someone's lack of understanding and wanting to simply villify sharing.
Just like their "up to" line, they want to advertise more than they can do while lying, as many businesses do. This is like having a 160mph speedometer on a bicycle. Sure, you can do up to 160mph, or have unlimited usage, but they hid the reality, which is "no, you can't have what we promised or else we will disconnect you".
Asian games are set up with "infinite level grinds", where you can always be stronger if you grind for XYZ amount of time to gain another level of the hundreds+.
So yes, it does undermine pvp when you're a level 50 who's been playing for 3 months and they're a level 120 who's been playing for 3 months, but for 1/3 as much time over those 3 months in addition.
Or if you create super power cash shop items. Well then, what does that sound like?
So clearly, we have no bias yet again? Is new scientist going republican? It sure sounds it, since they put Obama at the absolute highest on spin, Bush at "average spin", and Mccain as "no spin at all".
It's a step towards being "allowed". It means that until someone takes em to court, and proves that it is unconstitutional, they can do it and JUSTIFY it. Thus if you refuse, you are actually breaking the law (as it is a law at that point). Remember that even during an appeal of such a scenario it is not uncommon for the gov't to continue breaking the law via their own unconstitutional law.
You are certainly welcome to refuse to hand over your laptop at customs. good luck getting on your flight, though!
As is right now, if they try, it's still 4th/5th amendment violations and you can essentially verbally fight your way onto your own flight.
Laws don't just immediately take big steps; they take small baby steps to get up to a run, because laws are required to be specific and not broad.
Well yes, you and I understand that, but I didn't think it was necessary to mention that all forms of protection are useless if someone intends to gain access to the router.
However, my question remained as to whether you can truly control whether someone can provide open access or not.
Well, I agree with what you are saying, but I disagree about the "willing to take action".
It's not that people aren't willing to take action, it's that politicians don't listen and the elections are gamed. Add to that the noerr pennington doctrine and you have a situation where even 10 thousand people speaking up on an issue are brushed aside. I send letters to politicians all the time; but they don't even respond. I have sent group letters representing hundreds of people, with identical replies. I have met with the politicians in person, with "promises without guarantee". When it comes to email, they have lackeys who type up semi-canned replies that are stamped with the politician's seal of approval.
When was the last time you heard of a politician of either side who did something royally corrupt and didn't somehow "magically" manage to be reelected continually into the same position?
This is why armed rebellion is still potentially going to occur irregardless of who makes office. Currently politicians have ceased listening to the people at all.
beyond this sounding odd from a US-perspective (even though this isn't a US thing), would this even be enforceable? I mean can you really force someone to not be able to just hid their SSID or mac filter or something?
I do understand that it would set a legal precedent over there, etc...but still.
Have you looked at our country lately (US)? There's worse problems than racial profiling to deal with right now. I am insulted that this law suddenly enables laptop searches where right now it's a violation of the 4th amendment. People are forgetting that aspect.
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I get what you're saying, but we have seen democrats do things that go against democratic ideals/equates to hypocrisy, likewise with (insert any group or individual of any part of the political spectrum). Thus why say that it even matters if it's a group's ideal, I guess is what I question?
Uh?
When are people going to realize that there are shitty politicians on all sides of the spectrum, not just left or right leaning? Only moderates tend to be the non-shitty folks.
I actually don't like or care for the "most often, etc" crap. My MP3 player already has that option, but I find that flat out shuffle tends to hit those random songs sometimes too. Ogg/flac/aac sound like a small difference but it's actually huge. Not only is the audio quality better, but they tend to take up a lot less space for the same bitrates. MP3 is nice up to a certain point, not that I have a problem with ti at all. However, ogg/flac/aac are a definite step above.
These other apps worked without hindrance too. That has 0 to do with it. Apple banned them because they work; in fact if they didn't, apple probably wouldn't ban them. The fact that they allowed people to do things the phone currently blocks but is capable of, should tell you a thing or two.
Remember apple's "works out the box" motto the next time you have a patch from apple that breaks a program. Or windows. Or anything other than linux.
In the open source world, you can write an app yourself and solutions are not limited or take huge amounts of time. Lots of people just program stuff casually in the evenings and go a long way with it, usually/eventually can even make a living off of it. The difference in open source is you can take an existing program that doesn't have something you want, modify it, and use it/give it to others. Good luck doing that on anything non GPL.
That may sound nice and all, but it won't necessarily hold up in court. I'd like to see developers go against it and show that. This is more like suppression of developers, but apparently apple doesn't know when to make a buck off their own fanbase.
go, voltron!
It's about as accurate as a lie detector. You know, because we all know lie detectors are so perfect. It's not like people know how to game them or anything. The "you can't hide your true intentions; your body will know" part is a 100% fallacy and guaranteed to not be accurate.
I'm disappointed; gov't spending on some stupid shit here really.
Hmm, the world does. Simply because you cannot control (insert any object/thing/software/etc) the minute it's released.
For software, the minute you have a .exe, you have the source for a program whether the developer wishes it or not. This stuff is basic enough to find the source within minutes. There is absolutely no way to stop someone from reading the source of a program from the executable. Thus you can't really stop anyone, and you have no legal proof (DMCA does nothing if you can't prove someone decompiled an executable).
Thus, whether they like it or not, there is a public demand to try a game without buying aka software sharing. This in a million forms, has been around since before software existed in the form of mix tapes, videotapes, or even basic audio recordings earlier yet. How about even music (Chamber) after a composer creates it? Same idea. They (ignorant 21st century folk) just can't give up the control.
The smart folks embrace the trials, the ignorant ones simply try to stop you (and are shown to be pricks when they act like children that refuse to give up a toy).
I agree about second jobs, etc. However, 100$ to spare for emergencies, etc?
You wouldn't even be able to afford going out for lunch, etc. Literally its borderline of basic living only.
Cars need oil changes. People need haircuts.
Haircut = 10, oil change = 20-25. You wouldn't even be able to afford a cellphone. I agree, you could live on the most basic of all basic levels. However, you wouldn't even break even in reality.
I disagree with you.
Helpdesk has nothing to do with it, on the base. You forgot that cost of living varies drastically across the entire country.
$12/hr might be survivable in Virginia or Texas, but in Chicago people have a hard time surviving on $18-20/hr.
When the cheapest food to survive a day runs around 1-2$ (thus about 4-6$ a day foodwise) and gas runs almost 4$, trust me that 12$/hr helpdesk job will not keep people afloat, even if it was $12/hr cash.
Don't forget that employers employ people to make a profit, not a loss; thus $12/hr is probably turning about$20-50/hr profit.
Helpdesk itself varies from company to company. I know on mine some ofo the employees are borderline retarded and helpdesk has to show them anything more complex than what a mouse is.
Why pay another company? Well, ever heard of Unisys? Lets just say you pay for what you get. Those suckers can barely speak english, and about 1 in 20 of them are competent. Their managers are good IT helpdesk. The rest don't understand you, don't listen, don't know how to do their job, and good luck understanding them.
Guess how many companies offshore to unisys? Tons.
Untag yourself so that you're not marked in the photo if it's facebook or myspace? /duh.
Heh, nice to see a structured debate for once on the internet and on slashdot, no less.
What I'm saying is what difference does it make if the copy is physical or not? There is no ownership by the creator of the software whether a physical or electronic copy is created (or merely passed on back and forth). There is an inherent promotional value that the software maintains irregardless of it's current form (tell a friend,etc).
I would love to see EA hurt by watching the company go up in flames. However, I'm not going to take action and sadly they probably wouldn't learn even if they did. Damned if you do, damned if you don't, they think they should have consumer control.
I agree; however, if these street dudes who sell bootleg equivalents or flea market equivalents (I'm assuming thats what you mean) are enough that you like something and shitty enough quality that it justifies buying the real version, then what? I've done exactly that myself before, where a bootleg of a movie was crap so I decided I wanted the real thing after having seen the bootleg and since people value my opinion about 15-20 copies of the movie (dvd version) were sold. It's not like these people don't know how to do a netflix rental+burn, just people are reasonable if not treated like shit (aka how I treat them in comparison to the mpaa/riaa). In a sense, it is indeed an evaluation copy. The thing people don't get is an evaluation copy needs to be SUFFICIENT. It needs to be something that doesn't expire, or has limited gameplay. Just don't have it be the finished product. Like finding half of a movie on the "demo", or half of a game on the demo. You know sure as hell people will buy full at that point if they like it. These 2 week demos for some games, are pointless.
Simple example: If wow allowed ALL players to be able to play up to lvl60 chars and through old nax for free on blizz hosted servers at no subscription cost, they would bring in so many new players even before LOTLK than I can hardly describe. Evaluations need to become longer as a product becomes more detailed. If you have a whole Spiderman 1-3 series of movies, give away 1 and 2 as a 100% free evaluation with a discount if you buy the third when you turn in the evaluation or something. This is honestly truly basic promotional value here.
Okay, it doesn't matter what they borrow. If the first friend can play or not doesn't reflect, since there still isn't a physical copy. The "borrowing" doesn't have to be physical at all.
If you are selling something pirated, who is to say that the people who bought the illegitimate copy would have bought the original? No, its not that easy. You cannot dictate the minds of the consumers. Nobody can.
(note, I'm agreeing with you)
and sadly, people like oreilly don't understand anything and represent the kind of folks that probably push legislature about the internet. Disturbing.
The argument is dead on, and yes you missed it.
If you charge too much, or someone wants to try your game before deciding if you deserve their money, they are entitled to do so.
"Pirating" a game fits that purpose directly.
If someone doesn't have enough money to pay for a game but wants to play it, well, he can "pirate" it too.
would any of these scenarios constitute a sale? no.
The best comparison is like 2 people having a PC, and one borrows the game from the friend. No sale is necessarily made, and no copy is truly "distributed". Meanwhile, does the company get something? Yes, promotional value. Could those people possibly in some indirect fashion lead to others buying the game? Absolutely. However, when it comes to software, there is only one copy. After that is made copies onto other things, technically there is nothing more to be stolen. It has already been released and there is no way to prevent copying at this point.
Cars are not like software. Why? Because a car is a physical loss if it is taken. "taking" software in any frame of mind is more like saying "you can't breathe our air unless you do it in our specially approved area" and well, guess what happens if we don't breathe that air? Guess what happens to "your" air? Nothing.
People cannot embrace piracy because it's a false term. They are associating things indirectly through the wrong terms. "Intellectual property" is an oxymoron in and of itself. When someone refers to a game as IP, or as piracy, they are associating things that are not the case. Piracy would be more accurate simply being called "copying", ala mixtapes. Calling it piracy demonstrates someone's lack of understanding and wanting to simply villify sharing.
Plenty of people do understand the difference, trent reznor and a video game developer as a few examples.
Okay, simple example.
Just like their "up to" line, they want to advertise more than they can do while lying, as many businesses do. This is like having a 160mph speedometer on a bicycle. Sure, you can do up to 160mph, or have unlimited usage, but they hid the reality, which is "no, you can't have what we promised or else we will disconnect you".
Hello? This is what creates the imbalance.
Asian games are set up with "infinite level grinds", where you can always be stronger if you grind for XYZ amount of time to gain another level of the hundreds+.
So yes, it does undermine pvp when you're a level 50 who's been playing for 3 months and they're a level 120 who's been playing for 3 months, but for 1/3 as much time over those 3 months in addition.
Or if you create super power cash shop items. Well then, what does that sound like?
So clearly, we have no bias yet again? Is new scientist going republican? It sure sounds it, since they put Obama at the absolute highest on spin, Bush at "average spin", and Mccain as "no spin at all".
Yeahhhh, right.
hows that IE8 working for you? Has microsoft told you what you should be browsing today?
I heard there's this IE6 thing, but it's kinda hard to use in SP3, no? /sarcasm.
I don't get it, why is passing an unconstitutional law pragmatic under any circumstance?
It's a step towards being "allowed". It means that until someone takes em to court, and proves that it is unconstitutional, they can do it and JUSTIFY it. Thus if you refuse, you are actually breaking the law (as it is a law at that point). Remember that even during an appeal of such a scenario it is not uncommon for the gov't to continue breaking the law via their own unconstitutional law.
You are certainly welcome to refuse to hand over your laptop at customs. good luck getting on your flight, though!
As is right now, if they try, it's still 4th/5th amendment violations and you can essentially verbally fight your way onto your own flight.
Laws don't just immediately take big steps; they take small baby steps to get up to a run, because laws are required to be specific and not broad.
Well yes, you and I understand that, but I didn't think it was necessary to mention that all forms of protection are useless if someone intends to gain access to the router.
However, my question remained as to whether you can truly control whether someone can provide open access or not.
Well, I agree with what you are saying, but I disagree about the "willing to take action".
It's not that people aren't willing to take action, it's that politicians don't listen and the elections are gamed. Add to that the noerr pennington doctrine and you have a situation where even 10 thousand people speaking up on an issue are brushed aside. I send letters to politicians all the time; but they don't even respond. I have sent group letters representing hundreds of people, with identical replies. I have met with the politicians in person, with "promises without guarantee". When it comes to email, they have lackeys who type up semi-canned replies that are stamped with the politician's seal of approval.
When was the last time you heard of a politician of either side who did something royally corrupt and didn't somehow "magically" manage to be reelected continually into the same position?
This is why armed rebellion is still potentially going to occur irregardless of who makes office. Currently politicians have ceased listening to the people at all.
beyond this sounding odd from a US-perspective (even though this isn't a US thing), would this even be enforceable? I mean can you really force someone to not be able to just hid their SSID or mac filter or something?
I do understand that it would set a legal precedent over there, etc...but still.
that was exactly my point, I suppose I used horrible wording yet again.
Have you looked at our country lately (US)? There's worse problems than racial profiling to deal with right now. I am insulted that this law suddenly enables laptop searches where right now it's a violation of the 4th amendment. People are forgetting that aspect.