I live in Athens Greece, which must rank as one of the er less desirable high density population areas in terms of green area (at least in Europe). But, if you pick the right place (like where I am now - no don't ask) it's pretty good even for a convinced ruralite like myself (from East Anglia UK).
Mixed business and accomodation keeps a city centre vibrant and alive. The alternative - seen widely in my homeland (the UK) is desolate wastelands filled with security cameras and muggers. This morning, I could have picked from at least 5 or 6 bakeries within walking distance for my breakfast (yummy fresh bread). Actually, I know which one I go to because I end up debating football (soccer to you US people) before returning to the office... Life. Get one! (no money here though).
Funny thing here. Nobody worries about muggers or rapists here. It (mostly) doesn't happen.
I wish urban planners would look more carefully at the mediterranean model. Just like diet, it seems to work (albeit sometimes painfully slowly for my tastes).
I can't blame games designers for designing games based on their local cultural predujices. But, I wish we could find ones that tell the whole story. (Hint: Small pockets of the US aren't the US, let alone the rest of the world).
Anybody who thinks we are living in some sort of paradise here, please note - it isn't. (Don't ever expect to actually get paid for that work you did).
But the bread makes it all worthwhile (crunch, crunch).
Best wishes from not so sunny (rather cold at the moment) Athens Greece.
Steven, even if Sun releases Solaris as open source, I'd suggest that their *real* motive can be summed up in two words:
code taint
1. Patent anything interesting (already done?) 2. Release source (allegedly open) 3. Wait for somebody to put code derived from said
source into Linux 4. Go into SCO attack mode.
Spending $500 million to develop an open source version of their OS seems to be suicidal, unless the real reason is something else (or maybe I've been watching that famous Gene Hackmann movie too much!). (I suspect that the "open source" licence will be similar to the "open licence" that MS is using for their model.NET implementation).
Well, in greek "minute" is lepto, and second (in modern greek) is deutero (second) lepto, so that sort of makes sense... (although I'd guess the greek version is really from the old english one ).
Hmm. A horrible idea popped into my head. Somehow this scheme looks like a grand plan to deorbit the moon (grinning). Well, it *is* a satellite, and that *is* a tether, and there *is* a magnetic field.
For sure, it's the solar rather than the earth's field that bothers me, but since the earth-moon system is orbitting the sun I'd expect some kind of generator effect. Not to mention the fact that nobody really has a clue about the dynamics of the solar field.
So, even after somebody does some calculations to check whether electrical effects could dust the idea, it would be a great idea for NASA or ESA to launch a probe to L1 with the intention of spooling out a very long cable, so that any electrical stuff could be measured.
Now, for the really wacko suggestion. Why not connect the Lagrange points to each other with wires? Hmm. Really big LAN that one...
Anyone with enough physics want to do the back of pad electrical calculations?
Ouch. I think that perhaps somebody got upset here. Sorry, but I'm an engineer (at least I try to be) and being honest is better than being liked universally. I've been in this industry 20+ years and unlike our friends in the U.S. haven't benefited financially (I just scraped my life out of more than a year living on the street homeless).
Nonetheless, despite my admiration for how lean mean and sexy Opera is, I think the firefox crew are better at business. RMS started that fire when almost nobody could see it... Bob Wallace fanned it, and others have noticed too.. Fortunately not enough...
I think from your reaction you must be somebody at Opera. Hey: If u guys really want to avoid going the way of WordPerfect you should notice how the world changes. Ironically, I'm just right now reading W.E Pete Peterson's account thanks to those splendid people over at Groklaw.
Mind you I'm only 2/3rds the way through. It is kind of long.
Sometimes I wish people would notice that as engineers we have more in common than we do with our own managment. (The problem for me right now is that I am my own management).
A while ago, when mozilla was first released in source I used to use it as a benchmark for burning in new machines (it took a long time to cook one).
Oh boy. twenty different object orientated frameworks and and and. About 1 million lines of code. (I know that's an underestimate).
Never thought anybody would be crazy enough to actually pick up that stuff and run with it.
Too much of a coward myself.
It's a *lot* harder to tear down something and keep it sane than to rewrite. But the firefox crew (much to my great admiration) managed to do just that. We know it's tough guys. You did a great job. Hope you manage to resurrect composer too...
It's nice to know that great software engineering is alive and well. (Guess what browser I'm using).
Sorry to the Opera people, but the honest truth is that when you insisted on advertising in your browser we all instinctively thought spyware, malware other stuff. You should have reacted to how the world has changed if you wanted to stay in the running...
Hmm. Checked with notepad, and then cooledit. Since you can change the producer or whatever RIFF field anybody could patch this to anything they desire...
Come on guys, even the drones at MS have a sense of humour. Why does this deserve such a long thread? (all big companies have tiny rebels).
I wish people would stop the knee jerk reaction of assuming that everything at MS is evil. So Anders, Jim Hugenin & Co are *evil*?. Not in my book...
Misguided perhaps.
Long ago, back in perhaps '92, MS's *engineers* (note emphasis) taught me some stuff that made localizing my greek/english dictionary a piece of cake. Sadly, their apps people were so arrogant that it took them 7 years to play catch up with me (even though it was my first serious windows app in the wild).
Even longer back, we used to regard IBM as the source of all evil. Hey, what happened to that?
I wonder who is next. I just hope we can find another target to villify. This one is getting boring...
Must of taken a *long* time to get specfp up given the brain damaging "software has to do it" thing on itanic. All I want (personally) is a low watt, high screaming 64 bit version of the 11...Somebody resurrect the Alpha or implement the stanford cpu please? (You are right VLIW was soo 1980's wasn't it..) - oops I wrote 32 bit initially.
The irony is that when we get a mass market 64 bit processor the first thing some of us will do is to make a good emulator for the old 36 bit cpu's (grins)
First page email traffic shows it's a fake. Spent a couple of miserable days back in the early 80's briefing a real lawyer (sic) about computer software. Some idiot tried to sue us because he was using UCSD p-system *fortran* for databases. It wasn't a happy time for me. Three days in Franz Kafka territory. Yikes - how do i explain "compiler" and "operating system" to an anally retentive SOB? (BTW: it's really difficult).
So, I'll go back and giggle (maybe it gets better)
Just had this thought: maybe the same lawyer works for Darl & son's (grins)...
Back in the dark old days of before JFK to date (got to use something the US folks understand (grins)), the GPO (General Post Office) in the UK ruled everything. They could if they wished walk into your house and take away your tape recorder (reel to reel of course) or anything else if they thought you were transmitting something they didnt approve of. Even if they were wrong, you'd normally get said kit back mangled because they weren't the nice guys (there I did say that nicely don't you think (grins)).
So, here we are expecting PTT's to do the innovative thing. Not likely.
That's the model across many countries. Monolithic, mind dullingly soviet comms monopolies.
The asians and others have the luxury that they are starting from scratch, so VoIP is a great idea which will grow really fast...
I for one like SkyPE. Just started using it a couple of days back, had some really good chats with folks in Finland, Taiwan. Giggles. This is almost better than being G8VUP (not active now)
If you know that you want to talk to somebody (say in a collaboration about business or software Skype is close to perfect - and the voice quality is much better than most reviewers want to admit) But: watch out for worms that piggyback since its from the Kazaa people. You are leaving your net open since it's P2P.... Watch those ports like a hawk, and keep up to date from the usual sites.
Back when the SuperSet crew (Drew Major and company) picked up the remnants of a (I think M/PM company) there wasn't much else out there except Corvus Omninet (grits teeth). You wouldn't want to network with that. Ah the joys of 8" winchester hard disks and shared *disk* (not file serving) networks.. Ugh. Programmers had to do their own semaphores to arbitrate access at *apps* level. Sucky huh?? My good fried Jon used to keep a St.Christopher on his corvus drive because the darned things would head crash if u even tapped the table...
Novell changed all of that.
But not only that, Novell always had a very good philosophy towards the little folks (like me and others) out there who needed tech support. They were techies just like us, and they cared. Netware was never very pretty, but so long as you didn't overload it with NLM's it was *rock* solid.
Fine people. (and they are doing it again by backing SuSE/Miguel and the mono crew and everyone else).
Still, just like MS they didn't quite grok TCP/IP but nobodies perfect right...
Re Active directory (sic): most of it (esp the DFS part was trivial to do thanks to the splendid Andrew Tridgell's Samba even in the mid 90's.
I admire the best MS engineers. They've taught me a lot. But, I loath their management.
To anyone who doesn't know that execrable outfit that calls itself SC something used to be Calde** and was founded by Ray Noorda (ex Novell).
Re:Could have been the next Dungeon Keeper...
on
Review: Evil Genius
·
· Score: 1
Hmm. I was hoping u wouldn't say that. I loved DK 1, but it was late and the graphics cruddy. On the other hand the concept was *beautiful*. and the humour. So, I guess I'll have to wait for a while for a true sucessor to DK eh?
Oh well, guildwars soon (grins) (so my M/E can really kick ass (Ged the Hawk))
Mr. Zeus is *really* saying hello here in Athens GR Hope we don't lose the net a 4th time tonight...
Re:So what are we going to do tonight Brain?
on
Review: Evil Genius
·
· Score: 1
Darn it, that's funny. I guess I love those cartoons, particularly the bill grates joke...
Mr. Zeus is doing the wild thing here in athens tonight (must have been in north europe all year) Lost power three times in ten minutes. (don't ask what floats down the street when it rains *hard* here...).
I always liked Dungeon Keeper (shame that games developers are usually boringly unimaginative). But sadly, the implementation was kindof sucky even on DK 2.
They have to balance inbound/outbound net, and image search is *really* bleeding edge in case u didnt notice. So don't scream at them. If they gave all the bandwidth to the research hounds, we wouldn't be able to use them....
Closes eyes recalling a SciAm article a few years back...
If u really want to suck in the *whole* net as images, I guess your server would do a great black hole impression...
Not much chance most Linux users get owned for long.. With Windows users on the other hand, the first time they notice they have a problem is when you have to scrape 200 worms and trojans off their machines.
Besides, all unix variants are so "well known" in terms of the kinds of security vulnerabilities that plenty of people can help out if you *do* get 0wned.
With MS's products, there's probably one person deep in the mire at Redmond who knows *exactly* what might get compromised... (But nobody knows who that person is, or even if they still work for MutleySoft (R)).
Smells a wee bit CS undergrad smartass to me... Sigh. They never learn.
I don't feel too worried about this one. Most exploits in UN*x envs are so well known and old chestnuts that your grandfather knew them.
The bad part with windows is that *only* MS actually could know the weaknesses and they are so full of themselves that they don't admit it to each other let alone the real world. I don't envy anyone trying to fix stuff *inside* MS. How much red tape does the guy partying with NTFS have to fill in to get access to building XX's beloved source...?
The rise of social engineering attacks is beginning to tick me off though. At least one (almost) bit me when I really did have email from microsoft. Good thing I drink gallons of coffee.
But, now, I spend at least one hour every day trawling CERT, the internet storm center, Symantec, bla bla bla. Productivity decline is real ugly just to stay on top of it. I wouldn't mind, but starting at 7.30a.m. is kind of tough for an oldie like me.
You perhaps think that the MAC OS is still stuck back in the 68K days of handles and memory managers on machines with no MMU. No sir. OS X *is* a BSD unix, with all of Apple's gorgeous stuff running in user land. Anyways, UNIX goes back to Ken Thompson's playfulness on a spare minicomputer c.a. 1969 so what are you trying to suggest? Maybe I'm just senile. OK, GA GA GA. Je Men Foo
Slashdot Mirror
I live in Athens Greece, which must rank as one of the er less desirable high density population areas
in terms of green area (at least in Europe). But, if you pick the right place (like where I am now - no don't ask) it's pretty good even for a convinced ruralite like myself (from East Anglia UK).
Mixed business and accomodation keeps a city centre vibrant and alive. The alternative - seen widely in my homeland (the UK) is desolate wastelands filled with security cameras and muggers. This morning, I could have picked from
at least 5 or 6 bakeries within walking distance for my breakfast (yummy fresh bread). Actually,
I know which one I go to because I end up debating
football (soccer to you US people) before returning to the office... Life. Get one!
(no money here though).
Funny thing here. Nobody worries about muggers or rapists here. It (mostly) doesn't happen.
I wish urban planners would look more carefully at the mediterranean model. Just like diet, it seems to work (albeit sometimes painfully slowly for my tastes).
I can't blame games designers for designing games based on their local cultural predujices. But, I wish we could find ones that tell the whole story.
(Hint: Small pockets of the US aren't the US, let
alone the rest of the world).
Anybody who thinks we are living in some sort of paradise here, please note - it isn't. (Don't ever
expect to actually get paid for that work you did).
But the bread makes it all worthwhile (crunch, crunch).
Best wishes from
not so sunny (rather cold at the moment)
Athens Greece.
Andy Allen.
Steven, even if Sun releases Solaris as open source,
.NET implementation).
I'd suggest that their *real* motive can be summed up in two words:
code taint
1. Patent anything interesting (already done?)
2. Release source (allegedly open)
3. Wait for somebody to put code derived from said
source into Linux
4. Go into SCO attack mode.
Spending $500 million to develop an open source version of their OS seems to be suicidal, unless the real reason is something else (or maybe I've
been watching that famous Gene Hackmann movie too much!). (I suspect that the "open source" licence
will be similar to the "open licence" that MS
is using for their model
Andy.
About 1996, space shuttle commanded by Andrew.M.Allen (hint, my middle initial is "F").
Italian tether experiment I think.
I remember it well because I went into the office on
monday and told our lady of the soldering iron (!) that "Andy Allen had a bad weekend".
Well, in greek "minute" is lepto, and second (in modern greek) is deutero (second) lepto, so that sort of makes sense...
(although I'd guess the greek version is really from the old english one ).
Hmm. A horrible idea popped into my head. Somehow this scheme looks like a grand plan to deorbit the moon (grinning). Well, it *is* a satellite, and that *is* a tether, and there *is* a magnetic field.
For sure, it's the solar rather than the earth's field that bothers me, but since the earth-moon system is orbitting the sun I'd expect some kind of generator effect. Not to mention the fact that nobody really has a clue about the dynamics of the solar field.
So, even after somebody does some calculations to check whether electrical effects could dust the idea, it would be a great idea for NASA or ESA to launch a probe to L1 with the intention of spooling out a very long cable, so that any electrical stuff could be measured.
Now, for the really wacko suggestion. Why not connect the Lagrange points to each other with wires? Hmm. Really big LAN that one...
Anyone with enough physics want to do the back of pad electrical calculations?
Ouch. I think that perhaps somebody got upset here. Sorry, but I'm an engineer (at least I try to be) and being honest is better than being liked universally. I've been in this industry 20+ years and unlike our friends in the U.S. haven't benefited
...
financially (I just scraped my life out of more than a year living on the street homeless).
Nonetheless, despite my admiration for how lean mean and sexy Opera is, I think the firefox crew are better at business. RMS started that fire
when almost nobody could see it... Bob Wallace fanned it, and others have noticed too.. Fortunately not enough
I think from your reaction you must be somebody at
Opera. Hey: If u guys really want to avoid going the way of WordPerfect you should notice how the world changes. Ironically, I'm just right now reading W.E Pete Peterson's account thanks to those splendid people over at Groklaw.
Mind you I'm only 2/3rds the way through. It is kind of long.
Sometimes I wish people would notice that as engineers we have more in common than we do with our own managment. (The problem for me right now is that I am my own management).
A while ago, when mozilla was first released in source I used to use it as a benchmark for burning in new machines (it took a long time to cook one).
Oh boy. twenty different object orientated frameworks and and and. About 1 million lines of code. (I know that's an underestimate).
Never thought anybody would be crazy enough to actually pick up that stuff and run with it.
Too much of a coward myself.
It's a *lot* harder to tear down something and keep it sane than to rewrite. But the firefox crew
(much to my great admiration) managed to do just that. We know it's tough guys. You did a great job. Hope you manage to resurrect composer too...
It's nice to know that great software engineering is alive and well. (Guess what browser I'm using).
Sorry to the Opera people, but the honest truth is that when you insisted on advertising in your browser we all instinctively thought spyware, malware other stuff. You should have reacted to how the world has changed if you wanted to stay in the running...
Hmm. Checked with notepad, and then cooledit.
Since you can change the producer or whatever RIFF
field anybody could patch this to anything they
desire...
Come on guys, even the drones at MS have a sense of
humour. Why does this deserve such a long thread?
(all big companies have tiny rebels).
I wish people would stop the knee jerk reaction of assuming that everything at MS is evil. So Anders, Jim Hugenin & Co are *evil*?. Not in my book...
Misguided perhaps.
Long ago, back in perhaps '92, MS's *engineers* (note emphasis) taught me some stuff that made localizing my greek/english dictionary a piece of cake. Sadly, their apps people were so arrogant that it took them 7 years to play catch up with me (even though it was my first serious windows app in the wild).
Even longer back, we used to regard IBM as the source of all evil. Hey, what happened to that?
I wonder who is next. I just hope we can find another target to villify. This one is getting boring...
Must of taken a *long* time to get specfp up given the brain damaging "software has to do it" thing on itanic. All I want (personally) is a low watt, high screaming 64 bit version of the 11...Somebody resurrect the Alpha or implement the stanford cpu please? (You are right VLIW was soo 1980's wasn't it..) - oops I wrote 32 bit initially.
The irony is that when we get a mass market 64 bit
processor the first thing some of us will do is
to make a good emulator for the old 36 bit cpu's
(grins)
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=14310
(the link to the video is at the end).
I think we all know EPIC is dead. So is Moore's law.
Get used to learning how to parallelize (??) your
program.
Itanic I knew it not at all. Lot's of 64 bit CPU's out there means we can (finally) write nice emulators for the 36 bit ones (grins)
OK, we agree it's a fake. But, here is a
strategy for melting CowboyNeal, CmdrTaco etc:
1. Post rumour that GuildWars is cancelled to XXX site. Losenet would obviously be good.
2. Post rumour that slashdot has the news.
Bam. Server melts @ slashdot.org
oops
(very off topic, but there isn't an "off topic" thread - hey Commander we need one! pref hyperlinked for us organized geeks)
First page email traffic shows it's a fake. Spent a couple of
miserable days back in the early 80's briefing
a real lawyer (sic) about computer software. Some idiot tried to sue us because he was using UCSD p-system *fortran* for databases. It wasn't a happy time for me. Three days in Franz Kafka territory. Yikes - how do i explain "compiler" and "operating system" to an anally retentive SOB? (BTW: it's really difficult).
So, I'll go back and giggle (maybe it gets better)
Just had this thought: maybe the same lawyer works
for Darl & son's (grins)...
Back in the dark old days of before JFK to date (got to use something the US folks understand (grins)), the GPO (General Post Office) in the UK ruled everything. They could if they wished walk into your house and take away your tape recorder (reel to reel of course) or anything else if they thought you were
transmitting something they didnt approve of. Even if they were wrong, you'd normally get said kit back mangled because they weren't the nice guys (there I did say that nicely don't you think (grins)).
So, here we are expecting PTT's to do the innovative thing. Not likely.
That's the model across many countries. Monolithic, mind dullingly soviet comms monopolies.
The asians and others have the luxury that they are starting from scratch, so VoIP is a great idea
which will grow really fast...
I for one like SkyPE. Just started using it a couple of days back, had some really good chats with folks in Finland, Taiwan. Giggles. This is almost better than being G8VUP (not active now)
If you know that you want to talk to somebody (say in a collaboration about business or software Skype is close to perfect - and the voice quality
is much better than most reviewers want to admit)
But: watch out for worms that piggyback since its from the Kazaa people. You are leaving your net open since it's P2P.... Watch those ports like a hawk, and keep up to date from the usual sites.
Back when the SuperSet crew (Drew Major and company)
picked up the remnants of a (I think M/PM company)
there wasn't much else out there except Corvus Omninet (grits teeth). You wouldn't want to network with that. Ah the joys of 8" winchester
hard disks and shared *disk* (not file serving)
networks.. Ugh. Programmers had to do their own semaphores to arbitrate access at *apps* level.
Sucky huh?? My good fried Jon used to keep a
St.Christopher on his corvus drive because the
darned things would head crash if u even tapped
the table...
Novell changed all of that.
But not only that, Novell always had a very good philosophy towards the little folks (like me and others) out there who needed tech support. They were techies just like us, and they cared. Netware
was never very pretty, but so long as you didn't
overload it with NLM's it was *rock* solid.
Fine people. (and they are doing it again by backing SuSE/Miguel and the mono crew and everyone else).
Still, just like MS they didn't quite grok TCP/IP
but nobodies perfect right...
Re Active directory (sic): most of it (esp the DFS part was trivial to do thanks to the splendid Andrew Tridgell's Samba even in the mid 90's.
I admire the best MS engineers. They've taught me a lot. But, I loath their management.
To anyone who doesn't know that execrable outfit that calls itself SC something used to be Calde**
and was founded by Ray Noorda (ex Novell).
Hmm. I was hoping u wouldn't say that. I loved DK 1, but it was late and the graphics cruddy. On the other hand the concept was *beautiful*. and the humour. So, I guess I'll have to wait for a while for a true sucessor to DK eh?
Oh well, guildwars soon (grins)
(so my M/E can really kick ass (Ged the Hawk))
Mr. Zeus is *really* saying hello here in Athens GR
Hope we don't lose the net a 4th time tonight...
Darn it, that's funny. I guess I love those cartoons, particularly the bill grates joke...
Mr. Zeus is doing the wild thing here in athens tonight (must have been in north europe all year)
Lost power three times in ten minutes. (don't ask what floats down the street when it rains *hard* here...).
I always liked Dungeon Keeper (shame that games developers are usually boringly unimaginative).
But sadly, the implementation was kindof sucky even on DK 2.
Boom. Zeus is on a roll this evening.
Ah. A sentient organism (python user). Like those. Yummie!
They have to balance inbound/outbound net, and image search is *really* bleeding edge in case u didnt notice. So don't scream at them. If they gave all the bandwidth to the research hounds, we wouldn't be
able to use them....
Closes eyes recalling a SciAm article a few years back...
If u really want to suck in the *whole* net as images, I guess your server would do a great black hole impression...
More like a post emptive one. Talk about the stable door being open.. Most of us *already* spend 1+ hours trawling the usual sites -
/. /.
SANS - http://sans.org and http://www.dshield.org
CERT - http://www.cert.org
symantec, clamwin, kaspersky, If I go through the whole list I'll
(sighs)
It's not like windows update *helps*. What happens if it clashes with a download from symantec or someone else. Help my machine got 0wned by Murphy?
(I always worry about which monster will hit the nuclear red switch first)
Sorry, but someone has to rant, and I've just pulled an all nighter (too old at 45, don't want to play cards with Peel/George Burns yet)
Somebody go nuke the MS campus and start again heeding Don Knuth's famous words about code being lost and ending up much better for the re-write...
Mark me a troll please. (Does this *always* work?)
Not much chance most Linux users get owned for long.. With Windows users on the other hand, the first time they notice they have a problem is when you have to scrape 200 worms and trojans off their machines.
Besides, all unix variants are so "well known" in terms of the kinds of security vulnerabilities that plenty of people can help out if you *do* get 0wned.
With MS's products, there's probably one person deep in the mire at Redmond who knows *exactly* what might get compromised... (But nobody knows who that person is, or even if they still work for MutleySoft (R)).
One year is pretty good for a crappily produced consumer box ... Think of what the kids and dogs do to it. Replacement? Eh. Get a life.
the *other* windows developer trying to use 1.02/.03
was...
Smells a wee bit CS undergrad smartass to me...
Sigh. They never learn.
I don't feel too worried about this one. Most exploits in UN*x envs are so well known and old chestnuts that your grandfather knew them.
The bad part with windows is that *only* MS actually could know the weaknesses and they are so full of themselves that they don't admit it to each other let alone the real world. I don't envy
anyone trying to fix stuff *inside* MS. How
much red tape does the guy partying with NTFS have
to fill in to get access to building XX's beloved
source...?
The rise of social engineering attacks is beginning to tick me off though. At least one (almost) bit me when I really did have email from
microsoft. Good thing I drink gallons of coffee.
But, now, I spend at least one hour every day trawling CERT, the internet storm center, Symantec, bla bla bla. Productivity decline is real ugly just to stay on top of it. I wouldn't mind, but starting at 7.30a.m. is kind of tough for an oldie like me.
i.e just like John Carmack and the Doom source (the music in that game's case), they
can't give you sampling rights because they licensed them themselves...
Sorry, but the commercial world, she's a bitch.
You perhaps think that the MAC OS is still stuck back in the 68K days of handles and memory managers on machines with no MMU. No sir. OS X *is* a BSD unix, with all of Apple's gorgeous stuff running in user land. Anyways, UNIX goes back to Ken Thompson's
playfulness on a spare minicomputer c.a. 1969 so what are you trying to suggest? Maybe I'm just senile.
OK, GA GA GA.
Je Men Foo