That makes two of us then. If you have no patience for n00bs, at least don't let anyone else know it as it might discourage a n00b from asking someone who is patient enough to answer the really basic questions.
Not OK: "I am new to all this, could you please tell me what I have to do?"
That's how everyone begins the journey into the Linux world. Or in any other world, for that matter. You know the old saying: if you want loyalty and respect from others, you have to give it.
Downloading code doesn't entitle you to the undying support of everyone involved. Open source developers don't owe anyone.
If they loved their code as much we think they do, they would want us all to love it the same way. Obsessively. There is no owing. There is, however, the sharing of the love (or wealth, or whatever your favorite metaphor is).
They give away their code to exploit to your own desire. Don't get upset that we won't sit down and explain every detail to you also.
They give away their code to others who like to tweak. It is not necessarily true that all Linux users are coders. Hence, the need to think and relate to the non-coders differently than coders.
We do our best writing docs... something we are also not obligated to do.
Pity, that. However you intended that statement it comes across as a deliberate way to insure that your program is only used by other coders who already grok coding.
This is analagous to a painter who spends time obsessing over brushes, canvas, pigments, and frames, yet never paints something worthy of the materials. That person is not an painter, he is a quality control drone for an art store chain. The goal of art is to allow someone who has no skill in the craft to appreciate and participate in the beauty that comes as a result of the artist's blood, sweat, and tears. Art is an act of love, of selfless expression.
Perhaps its about time coders started to view themselves and their work in that light.
Congratulations. Linux is easy for you. You grok everything, it seems, in an instant. Go you.
On the other hand, not everyone is like you. Some people have a hard time dredging through man pages and TFM. Because some people aren't used to scientific vernacular. This should be apparent by the subjects they ask about, and how they frame their requests. Please, try not to be impatient with people like us. Surely, you wouldn't appreciate it if you found a new love in x, whatever x is, only to have some old timer tell you are a "dimwit who apparently can't even understand a with possible solutions in plain human language" and then insist you be shot for your ignorance.
So, forebear. Perhaps someday, someone somewhere will be patient with you and you will finally grok the benefits.
As a Mac/Linux user, I agree. Folks who do Linux as well as Mac aren't the stereotypical snobby Mac user either (the answer to every question that involves a Windoze machine: get a Mac).
(Writing this on a G5, running YDL. Will be running either OSX and/or LINUX on this box for years to come, thankyouohsoverymuch)
Oh boy! Now I have have viruses and be PWNED just like your average Windows user! Yippee! Hooray for time wasted worrying about keeping my computer from huffing instead of doing real work! Let's waste time! Waste is fun! Pain is fun!
Humbug.
Also there's that nifty little dig on the Apple page:
"Word to the Wise
Windows running on a Mac is like Windows running on a PC. That means it'll be subject to the same attacks that plague the Windows world. So be sure to keep it updated with the latest Microsoft Windows security fixes."
Clarification: His Linspire runs on packaged configurations (read: restricted hardware he chooses and sells). Just like Apple. This is the pot calling the kettle black.
Yup. And that rule applies necessarily to technical support, hardware engineering practices/new product development, contracts with restricted numbers of vendors to produce their "vision," and do so with lowest overhead and highest profit margins.
The article comes from a guy who packages Linux in restricted hardware configurations. And he's saying Apple might have blown an opportunity?
Methinks the nutjob from Linspire is/was thinking like Apple. No doubt he didn't want his tech support fielding calls from people who wanted to stick just any old piece of hardware in one of his boxes and expect him to support it.
For some, this is a no-brainer. For others, this is a brain cramp. It takes all kinds to make a world, I guess.
That is good to hear. I'm sure those checks and balances are working now that Enron is under thumb. Which still leaves us with the local for-profits at the end of the line. They're still interested in keeping the current flowing so that the cash will continue to flow without interruption. Profit will still be the real motivation for the local power companies to be ready when the new law takes effect.
As Qui-Gonn stated so aptly: Greed can be a powerful ally.
Like Y2K (Zzzzz) everyone is going to have enough time to figure out how to adjust. And do you honestly think the power company isn't going to be excited about the extra revenue? They'll be ready to rake in the extra cash. Don't doubt it for even a second.
Where have you been the last two months? Apple and Intel both stated their cases for the switch. We're suppose to take you seriously because why, exactly?
Larry, the problem with the argument from silence is that it runs both ways, and has the same amount of proof.
You are a fear monger, sir. There is no threat to Microsoft or Linux on the desktop. MS is firmly entrenched in the business world, and Linux doesn't have a real desktop/Joe User experience. Not that GNOME and KDE aren't trying, mind you.
IBM hasn't delivered on promises to Apple re: CPUs. And they don't seem to care if Apple moves on. No news here, Larry. Or I suppose that's why you're engaging in make-believe. Did your editor tell you s/he had whitespace that needed filled, or what?
Your're assuming that just because Apple will be using Intel's CPU's that they are also obliged to use the chipsets. Who ever said that would be the case? From interviews with Intel, they are working with Apple to do whatever Apple needs to get the Intel mobos up to snuff. Remember, what the developers have now are hack boxes, not showroom.
Carry over Northbridge and Southbridge to Mac with the attendant bottlenecks? Please....well, let's hope not.
Also keep in mind that Apple has never blushed at doing something different with I/O in general, and buses in particular.
Try not to blink when the new MacTel boxes come out and the logic boards are nothing like what you Chipzilla types are accustomed to using.
It's not that they're special. It's that they don't have the PC manufacturer's unyielding compulsion to only do something new and/or different if someone else does the R&D, field testing, and risk taking at the retail level. As soon as a new technology or application of the new technology is seen to pan out, PC manufacturers jump on board. Most recently seen with iPod, and now the Mac Minis.
In other words, PC manufacturers are risk adverse (beige box, anyone?), and Apple is not.
Bingo. Add to that, Apple isn't going to introduce a machine that can't be sold as "the BMW of computers." Apple probably has already struck a deal with Intel that will allow Apple to be the first to include "The Newest Latest And Greatest CPU EVAR" (for the next two or three months) into their initial offering.
I think I'll run over to my journal now and make branded comments, like, Dear makers of product X, your marketers are barely conscious pond scum, and your execs are brainless to listen to them. Stop giving them credibility....et cetera.
The goal is to live in a society where you have peace and security, not because you can create a fortress, but because everyone agrees to get along....rendering locks on door unnecessary.
Crackers are a problem because crackers have issues. When those issues are addressed we wont have the need to have crap on our computers taking up cycles we could devote to programs we want to run.
Man, this stuff isn't suppose to be rocket science.
Well, configuration data needs to be kept somewhere. And we agree that if you can reach a config file to tweak it using the UI that suits you best is a Good Thing.
I'm glad you clarified your statement. At least it only takes you two tries. It usually takes me four or five. And that's on a good day.
You haven't answered any of his objections. All you've done is attack his person. Is it because you have nothing to say directly and concretly to resolve his issues?
Does that observation offend you?
If it does, then this is going to ruin your day: Your comment will probably keep him running OS X, and will prevent others from even giving Linux a fair shot. Wouldn't you rather want others to appreciate the jewel you found in (your Linux distribution of choice)?
I too am sick of ppl expecting Linux to be desktop ready right now.
It's sentiments like that which will keep Linux from ever becoming ready. What is happening in the world is people are becoming wary/tired of Microsoft and want to look elsewhere. They look at Apple, but most folks just don't have that kind of money up front-even with the Mini-as there are new apps to buy with that new system. And Apple apps aren't cheap.
So they look at Linux.
And what they get is not what they expect. What they expect is stuff to work without any fuss. What they get is a steeper learning curve and "RTFM, n00b."
So they go into debt to buy a Mac and the apps that go with it....that beer option sounds like a winner, though!:)
I have a PPC G5. I'm not at all sorry that Apple is making this transition. As my computer is running what I want, as fast as I need it to run, and that without a single system crash or application lockup, I have no incentive to buy a new computer for quite some time.
Added benefit: as there is already scarce interest in the hacking of PPC boxen, there certainly should be even less interest by script kiddies and their ilk to mess with my now "dead" box. My hardware, OS, and apps are even now becoming rather un-interesting.
And if the OS decides to croak or become unsupported, whichever comes first, there is always BSD and Linux looking to step up to the plate!
Have fun all you Chipzilla fans! I may or may not be joining you in five years.
Those of us who aren't stupid like the ability to edit config files from scripts, copy them around to other machines, etc.
Those who are smart use GUI tools to get to what they need without the learning curve. The stupid people are the ones who look down on others for not being like themselves....oh man. WIndows documentation? You mean, the kind that doesn't involve going over to a retail bookstore and laying down $50 + for a really big book with lots of pictures and white space? Yes. Terrible documentation.
Signed,
Ex-MCP.
Slashdot Mirror
That makes two of us then. If you have no patience for n00bs, at least don't let anyone else know it as it might discourage a n00b from asking someone who is patient enough to answer the really basic questions.
Not OK: "I am new to all this, could you please tell me what I have to do?"
That's how everyone begins the journey into the Linux world. Or in any other world, for that matter. You know the old saying: if you want loyalty and respect from others, you have to give it.
If they loved their code as much we think they do, they would want us all to love it the same way. Obsessively. There is no owing. There is, however, the sharing of the love (or wealth, or whatever your favorite metaphor is).
They give away their code to exploit to your own desire. Don't get upset that we won't sit down and explain every detail to you also.
They give away their code to others who like to tweak. It is not necessarily true that all Linux users are coders. Hence, the need to think and relate to the non-coders differently than coders.
We do our best writing docs... something we are also not obligated to do.
Pity, that. However you intended that statement it comes across as a deliberate way to insure that your program is only used by other coders who already grok coding.
This is analagous to a painter who spends time obsessing over brushes, canvas, pigments, and frames, yet never paints something worthy of the materials. That person is not an painter, he is a quality control drone for an art store chain. The goal of art is to allow someone who has no skill in the craft to appreciate and participate in the beauty that comes as a result of the artist's blood, sweat, and tears. Art is an act of love, of selfless expression.
Perhaps its about time coders started to view themselves and their work in that light.
On the other hand, not everyone is like you. Some people have a hard time dredging through man pages and TFM. Because some people aren't used to scientific vernacular. This should be apparent by the subjects they ask about, and how they frame their requests. Please, try not to be impatient with people like us. Surely, you wouldn't appreciate it if you found a new love in x, whatever x is, only to have some old timer tell you are a "dimwit who apparently can't even understand a with possible solutions in plain human language" and then insist you be shot for your ignorance.
So, forebear. Perhaps someday, someone somewhere will be patient with you and you will finally grok the benefits.
As a Mac/Linux user, I agree. Folks who do Linux as well as Mac aren't the stereotypical snobby Mac user either (the answer to every question that involves a Windoze machine: get a Mac).
Linux can be friendly!
(Writing this on a G5, running YDL. Will be running either OSX and/or LINUX on this box for years to come, thankyouohsoverymuch)
Oh boy! Now I have have viruses and be PWNED just like your average Windows user! Yippee! Hooray for time wasted worrying about keeping my computer from huffing instead of doing real work! Let's waste time! Waste is fun! Pain is fun!
Humbug.
Also there's that nifty little dig on the Apple page:
"Word to the Wise
Windows running on a Mac is like Windows running on a PC. That means it'll be subject to the same attacks that plague the Windows world. So be sure to keep it updated with the latest Microsoft Windows security fixes."
Oookaaaaay. Let's do that!
Clarification: His Linspire runs on packaged configurations (read: restricted hardware he chooses and sells). Just like Apple. This is the pot calling the kettle black.
Yup. And that rule applies necessarily to technical support, hardware engineering practices/new product development, contracts with restricted numbers of vendors to produce their "vision," and do so with lowest overhead and highest profit margins.
This stuff aint suppose to be rocket science.
No foolin.
The article comes from a guy who packages Linux in restricted hardware configurations. And he's saying Apple might have blown an opportunity?
Methinks the nutjob from Linspire is/was thinking like Apple. No doubt he didn't want his tech support fielding calls from people who wanted to stick just any old piece of hardware in one of his boxes and expect him to support it.
For some, this is a no-brainer. For others, this is a brain cramp. It takes all kinds to make a world, I guess.
That is good to hear. I'm sure those checks and balances are working now that Enron is under thumb. Which still leaves us with the local for-profits at the end of the line. They're still interested in keeping the current flowing so that the cash will continue to flow without interruption. Profit will still be the real motivation for the local power companies to be ready when the new law takes effect.
As Qui-Gonn stated so aptly: Greed can be a powerful ally.
Like Y2K (Zzzzz) everyone is going to have enough time to figure out how to adjust. And do you honestly think the power company isn't going to be excited about the extra revenue? They'll be ready to rake in the extra cash. Don't doubt it for even a second.
Mod the parent up, please!
Where have you been the last two months? Apple and Intel both stated their cases for the switch. We're suppose to take you seriously because why, exactly?
Larry, the problem with the argument from silence is that it runs both ways, and has the same amount of proof.
You are a fear monger, sir. There is no threat to Microsoft or Linux on the desktop. MS is firmly entrenched in the business world, and Linux doesn't have a real desktop/Joe User experience. Not that GNOME and KDE aren't trying, mind you.
IBM hasn't delivered on promises to Apple re: CPUs. And they don't seem to care if Apple moves on. No news here, Larry. Or I suppose that's why you're engaging in make-believe. Did your editor tell you s/he had whitespace that needed filled, or what?
*sigh*
Your're assuming that just because Apple will be using Intel's CPU's that they are also obliged to use the chipsets. Who ever said that would be the case? From interviews with Intel, they are working with Apple to do whatever Apple needs to get the Intel mobos up to snuff. Remember, what the developers have now are hack boxes, not showroom.
...well, let's hope not.
Carry over Northbridge and Southbridge to Mac with the attendant bottlenecks? Please.
Also keep in mind that Apple has never blushed at doing something different with I/O in general, and buses in particular.
Try not to blink when the new MacTel boxes come out and the logic boards are nothing like what you Chipzilla types are accustomed to using.
Mod the grandparent up, please.
It's not that they're special. It's that they don't have the PC manufacturer's unyielding compulsion to only do something new and/or different if someone else does the R&D, field testing, and risk taking at the retail level. As soon as a new technology or application of the new technology is seen to pan out, PC manufacturers jump on board. Most recently seen with iPod, and now the Mac Minis.
In other words, PC manufacturers are risk adverse (beige box, anyone?), and Apple is not.
Bingo. Add to that, Apple isn't going to introduce a machine that can't be sold as "the BMW of computers." Apple probably has already struck a deal with Intel that will allow Apple to be the first to include "The Newest Latest And Greatest CPU EVAR" (for the next two or three months) into their initial offering.
I think I'll run over to my journal now and make branded comments, like, Dear makers of product X, your marketers are barely conscious pond scum, and your execs are brainless to listen to them. Stop giving them credibility. ...et cetera.
No kidding.
...rendering locks on door unnecessary.
The goal is to live in a society where you have peace and security, not because you can create a fortress, but because everyone agrees to get along.
Crackers are a problem because crackers have issues. When those issues are addressed we wont have the need to have crap on our computers taking up cycles we could devote to programs we want to run.
Man, this stuff isn't suppose to be rocket science.
Well, configuration data needs to be kept somewhere. And we agree that if you can reach a config file to tweak it using the UI that suits you best is a Good Thing.
;)
I'm glad you clarified your statement. At least it only takes you two tries. It usually takes me four or five. And that's on a good day.
This is not a good day.
You haven't answered any of his objections. All you've done is attack his person. Is it because you have nothing to say directly and concretly to resolve his issues?
Does that observation offend you?
If it does, then this is going to ruin your day: Your comment will probably keep him running OS X, and will prevent others from even giving Linux a fair shot. Wouldn't you rather want others to appreciate the jewel you found in (your Linux distribution of choice)?
I too am sick of ppl expecting Linux to be desktop ready right now. It's sentiments like that which will keep Linux from ever becoming ready. What is happening in the world is people are becoming wary/tired of Microsoft and want to look elsewhere. They look at Apple, but most folks just don't have that kind of money up front-even with the Mini-as there are new apps to buy with that new system. And Apple apps aren't cheap. So they look at Linux. And what they get is not what they expect. What they expect is stuff to work without any fuss. What they get is a steeper learning curve and "RTFM, n00b." So they go into debt to buy a Mac and the apps that go with it. ...that beer option sounds like a winner, though! :)
I have a PPC G5. I'm not at all sorry that Apple is making this transition. As my computer is running what I want, as fast as I need it to run, and that without a single system crash or application lockup, I have no incentive to buy a new computer for quite some time. Added benefit: as there is already scarce interest in the hacking of PPC boxen, there certainly should be even less interest by script kiddies and their ilk to mess with my now "dead" box. My hardware, OS, and apps are even now becoming rather un-interesting. And if the OS decides to croak or become unsupported, whichever comes first, there is always BSD and Linux looking to step up to the plate! Have fun all you Chipzilla fans! I may or may not be joining you in five years.
Those of us who aren't stupid like the ability to edit config files from scripts, copy them around to other machines, etc. Those who are smart use GUI tools to get to what they need without the learning curve. The stupid people are the ones who look down on others for not being like themselves. ...oh man. WIndows documentation? You mean, the kind that doesn't involve going over to a retail bookstore and laying down $50 + for a really big book with lots of pictures and white space? Yes. Terrible documentation.
Signed,
Ex-MCP.
You are the wind beneath my wings! UHF forever!
It reminds me of the now classic saw: Yoda: Hard to see, the Dark Side is. Movie watcher: Why? Because it's dark?