Of course you don't get a copy of Windows to do that. it's an OEM.
There's a reason that computers are cheaper nowadays.
You get a $40 version of Windows rather than a $200 version.
OA,RH
Well, my full name was in the From: line of the email...
However, the best way to identify me on the Internet is "the Kaosaur"...you'll find me going by this on various forums, in quotations in the Villiage Voice...2600...etc...
That's just who I am and has been that way for years.
(Anything hosted from my domains will give an Error 400 at the moment though...having a bitter dispute with my webhost)
And they have a fair amount of customers. He seems to think that the people buying on eBay will buy his product though.
And people seem to think that the price of arcade units is still about $10,000 a pop new. It's so rare to find an "official" cabinet nowadays unless it's either a Bemani game or Marvel vs Capcom 2. Those cost around $10k-$12k but nobody really does it anymore...it's something that kinda died down around the time of NFL Blitz's last major arcade release.
You can buy one of those stupid large cabinets for $350...that'll include the frame, mountings, screws, coin comparitors and a power supply. a 29" RGB monitor will run you about $800. Then the board is about $2000 when you figure in the control panel and jamma harness and everything. A knowledgeable distributor can kit together a full large-sized cab for around $3500. Except very rarely does a distributor give somebody all new parts other than the frame and board. Figure on more like $3000.
Now if you're using the smaller machines or sit down cabs like a lot of the more seasoned arcade goers prefer to play on, take that price down another $750.
I just had a thought...
What is the CEO of any reasonable company doing responding to a flurry of emails at 3-5am?
He literally got back to me within minutes and we're starting a bit of an exchange of views.
I'd be really interested to know how large their offices are and how many employees he has.
I'm pretty sleep deprived, emotional about this issue, and incoherent...but here's a copy of what I just sent the guy:
Dear Mr. Foley,
I am writing to express my thoughts to you about your recent filing for Trademark over the MAME logo. I do not intend to flame you or insult you to explain how your actions look to someone from a different perspective than your own but with similar interests, background, and knowledge involving arcade games. Most of this email will be in direct response to the mame.pdf file which you have posted on your site as this is the only statement you have made and the sole bit of information which I will choose to make my response from.
I'll just explain where I'm coming from a little first. I am an arcade enthusiast. In my free time I buy/sell/distribute legitimate game boards and build home JAMMA rigs and full JAMMA cabinets for people. I do this as a hobby, not a business, but I have done it for slight profit in the past. I have never once built a "MAME cabinet", although I have put together the physical hardware for people in the past (sans-PC and extras in the past)...This would include a cabinet built from the standard types of MDF, t-molding, overlays, lights, speakers, marquees, control panels, lexan coverings, RGB monitors (and included the required special video card) and buttons (wired to a keyboard). I have never done more than that for anyone who wanted a MAME cabinet. I have never advertised my services on or done business through eBay and the cabinet building has only ever been done for personal friends, aquaintances or through referalls from distributor friends of mine who wanted to throw me some business because they couldn't be bothered themselves. I have also as a hobby been following the development of MAME over the years and believe that the software has some technical merits and deserves some interest and support. I will also offer that 99.9999% of MAME use is for completely illicit purposes. On the other hand, arcades are one of the loves of my life, and I plan on opening an arcade business (both gaming locations and parts distribution&repair) in the near future.
Here are the bitter facts though, and I may quote some of your statements from your statement.
First and foremost: "I will try and educate anyone who cares to listen about the reality of our marketplace" I do not believe that you understand the reality of your marketplace or are deliberately ignoring it. That is a harsh statement, I know, but I will explain in detail.
You say that you are making an effort to stamp out the commercial sales of M.A.M.E. based systems in which customers illegally obtain ROMs. Why? It's obvious: It's because this is your competitor, and their illegal actions are damaging to your business.
As a business, it is your responsibility to attempt to surpass your competition and keep them from getting an illegitimate edge on your business. The law is at your disposal for this. Yet you'll find, as you will in most cases where bootlegging (because that's what this really, truly is here) is involved, the authorities are not interested. This is even more aggrevating because eBay, where most of this business is taking place, is raking in the profits and couldn't be bothered and have a reputation for this attitude. So you have a number of legal options: You could go after the bootleggers. You could go after eBay. You would have a tough fight, but there are other corporate and private interests who have pooled their legal and monetary resources to do this and there ARE class action lawsuits against eBay and they ARE under investigation. You would be completely right in doing so as well. Rather than do that, you have decided to make claim to something that you have no legal right to, the MAME trademark, in an effort to either make a statement about these illegal practices, or give you legal leverage against these people in lawsuits. This does not justify your attempt at misuse of Trademark law. Your reco
...to waste this guy's time by selling burned copies of MAME on eBay.
Sell schematics for MAME cabinets...
Just download and sell for the cost of printing.
It'll waste this guy's time, support MAME and the more-widespread use of MAME and you may even make a few cents per copy skimming a little on shipping.:P
That way you can "donate" (both time and money)...
The only downside is that it makes eBay money!
And hell, if eBay starts pulling auctions, start filing disputes and provide links to the trademark filing showing that it's not a valid trademark yet.
Hopefully the nightmare of support time that this will cause eBay will get them to not back this asshole in any way whatsoever and make his life more difficult.
Well...with all the fluctuating moderations of this post...
My karma has gone from Positive to Neutral.
Thanks for marking this flamebait, guys...
I think it's perfectly appropriate...Although since MAME cabs and JAMMA hardware are a personal hobby of mine, I am understandably pissed about this issue.
He's trying to take away the legitimacy so that his company's product can be the only game in town.
People are starting to realize that he has a crap product that is exorbitantly expensive.
I have some strong ties in the arcade business (operation and distribution) as well as good friends in the emulation community.
When you can get a used DDR machine for less money than one of these things AND bring in more, why bother?
The Ultracade has been pushed on arcades by distributors because they get AMAZING deals on it and make LOTS of markup when they actually sell units to arcades. (A lot of distributors usually shy away from this sort of practice with most games because it's more profitable to "rent" a game out to an arcade and take a cut of the game intake. They do all the service of the machine (including coin emptying) so they can track an unmodified count and it's a good system. They can sell off old machines that aren't bringing in money and keep most of the money IN the business rather than moving through it.) The problem for the arcades is that they're pretty much grabbed by the balls. Their businesses are for the most part dying and old games still bring in enough draw to warrant keeping them around...but they can't devote all the space to multiple cabinets so they just get one of these puppies....
I wish our arcade industry was more like in Asia..where everyone gets the newest thing and you have multiple level/floor arcades and you just keep what brings in money. Times are tough over here though.
Anyway, this guy is just trying to solidify his business and since he has a crap business model, he's trying to bully out the competition while the opportunity to do so is still there. I hope people fight him tooth and nail and his company goes bankrupt.
The problem is that he's trying to make some cash from OTHER people's hard work.
MAME has been around for 8 years now and this guy has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PROJECT.
About 3 years ago I was using FreeBSD with FilterProxy installed and using Mozilla on top of that.
Two years I made the switch back to Slackware with Mozilla and stopped using FilterProxy.
I now use Firefox (after some annoying funkyness with Mozilla's download manager that suddently stopped working)
The point is. I run Linux and Firefox. I keep JavaScript, Java and Flash enabled. I have AdBlock but I rarely if ever use it and only to block annoying animated gifs.
JavaScript is only allowed to Raise and Lower Windows, Disable or Replace Windows, and Change Images.
I have not gotten a SINGLE popup. I do have Block Popups turned on.
Granted, I browse considerably less porn websites than I used to...but still.
I'm popup free. I can't understand why you guys are getting these popups except for maybe two possibilities:
1) You're browsing some EXTREMELY seedy TGP porn content.
2) It has something to do with your Wintel or MacOS machines.
Actually, the legality of it is even more interesting.
There's something called "spousal privledge", which entitles a person not to say something damaging against their spouse, even under oath. There is an implied confidentiality there, just as there is with attorney-client privledge.
To be able to collect evidence against your spouse and sue them based on it gets into a bit of a grey area, because it is somewhat expected that these actions break that confidentiality in the marriage, even though one party is clearly deceiving the other. The best reasoning I can figure for this is that the law is in place to keep marital issues out of the courts and within the marriage. The court probably deemed that this issue wasn't serious enough to need judicial intervention. It's an issue that has to be settled within the marriage.
I'm no lawyer though.
But the PS2 is a crap machine compared to the Dreamcast.
The Dreamcast was killed off by:
1) Bad Marketing
2) Poor Game Disribution
3) Being intentionally snubbed by certain popular developers (namely EA and Konami) [Keep in mind that EA has wanted Sega out of business since the Saturn...]
4) Customers reluctance to abandon the Playstation.
5) Sony's repeated (and mostly false) claims that the Playstation would totally blow the Dreamcast away graphically and that people should wait for the PS2
I think that Sega made the right business decision to release the console early...as MS may be doing.
Point 4 combined with Point 5 are important. Sega most likely would have done CONSIDERABLY WORSE in a head to head battle with Sony from the start. MS would be likely to do the same...especially wit h the hype surrounding the Cell processor.
Funny....
Intuit just announced that they will stop selling Quicken at the end of this month.
They are only continuing with QuickBooks, TaxCut and TurboTax.
Quicken sucks and is a waste of money and even Intuit knows it now.
Get a Fujitsu Pencentra 100 or 200 Tablet. (i think those are the correct model numbers anyway...)
It'll be a bitch to get Linux on there, but it IS doable. It has two PCMCIA slots (you can put in a CF card reader) and takes IrDA. Decent battery life too.
It's just huge. HUGE.
Definately in your price range though.
Slashdot Mirror
Of course you don't get a copy of Windows to do that. it's an OEM. There's a reason that computers are cheaper nowadays. You get a $40 version of Windows rather than a $200 version. OA,RH
Well, if he didn't really buy crack...did he commit a crime? It's not a crime to be a crackhead...Just to possess crack.
Well, my full name was in the From: line of the email... However, the best way to identify me on the Internet is "the Kaosaur"...you'll find me going by this on various forums, in quotations in the Villiage Voice...2600...etc... That's just who I am and has been that way for years. (Anything hosted from my domains will give an Error 400 at the moment though...having a bitter dispute with my webhost)
And they have a fair amount of customers. He seems to think that the people buying on eBay will buy his product though. And people seem to think that the price of arcade units is still about $10,000 a pop new. It's so rare to find an "official" cabinet nowadays unless it's either a Bemani game or Marvel vs Capcom 2. Those cost around $10k-$12k but nobody really does it anymore...it's something that kinda died down around the time of NFL Blitz's last major arcade release. You can buy one of those stupid large cabinets for $350...that'll include the frame, mountings, screws, coin comparitors and a power supply. a 29" RGB monitor will run you about $800. Then the board is about $2000 when you figure in the control panel and jamma harness and everything. A knowledgeable distributor can kit together a full large-sized cab for around $3500. Except very rarely does a distributor give somebody all new parts other than the frame and board. Figure on more like $3000. Now if you're using the smaller machines or sit down cabs like a lot of the more seasoned arcade goers prefer to play on, take that price down another $750.
I just had a thought... What is the CEO of any reasonable company doing responding to a flurry of emails at 3-5am? He literally got back to me within minutes and we're starting a bit of an exchange of views. I'd be really interested to know how large their offices are and how many employees he has.
I'm pretty sleep deprived, emotional about this issue, and incoherent...but here's a copy of what I just sent the guy:
Dear Mr. Foley,
I am writing to express my thoughts to you about your recent filing for Trademark over the MAME logo. I do not intend to flame you or insult you to explain how your actions look to someone from a different perspective than your own but with similar interests, background, and knowledge involving arcade games. Most of this email will be in direct response to the mame.pdf file which you have posted on your site as this is the only statement you have made and the sole bit of information which I will choose to make my response from.
I'll just explain where I'm coming from a little first. I am an arcade enthusiast. In my free time I buy/sell/distribute legitimate game boards and build home JAMMA rigs and full JAMMA cabinets for people. I do this as a hobby, not a business, but I have done it for slight profit in the past. I have never once built a "MAME cabinet", although I have put together the physical hardware for people in the past (sans-PC and extras in the past)...This would include a cabinet built from the standard types of MDF, t-molding, overlays, lights, speakers, marquees, control panels, lexan coverings, RGB monitors (and included the required special video card) and buttons (wired to a keyboard). I have never done more than that for anyone who wanted a MAME cabinet. I have never advertised my services on or done business through eBay and the cabinet building has only ever been done for personal friends, aquaintances or through referalls from distributor friends of mine who wanted to throw me some business because they couldn't be bothered themselves. I have also as a hobby been following the development of MAME over the years and believe that the software has some technical merits and deserves some interest and support. I will also offer that 99.9999% of MAME use is for completely illicit purposes. On the other hand, arcades are one of the loves of my life, and I plan on opening an arcade business (both gaming locations and parts distribution&repair) in the near future.
Here are the bitter facts though, and I may quote some of your statements from your statement.
First and foremost: "I will try and educate anyone who cares to listen about the reality of our marketplace" I do not believe that you understand the reality of your marketplace or are deliberately ignoring it. That is a harsh statement, I know, but I will explain in detail.
You say that you are making an effort to stamp out the commercial sales of M.A.M.E. based systems in which customers illegally obtain ROMs. Why? It's obvious: It's because this is your competitor, and their illegal actions are damaging to your business.
As a business, it is your responsibility to attempt to surpass your competition and keep them from getting an illegitimate edge on your business. The law is at your disposal for this. Yet you'll find, as you will in most cases where bootlegging (because that's what this really, truly is here) is involved, the authorities are not interested. This is even more aggrevating because eBay, where most of this business is taking place, is raking in the profits and couldn't be bothered and have a reputation for this attitude. So you have a number of legal options: You could go after the bootleggers. You could go after eBay. You would have a tough fight, but there are other corporate and private interests who have pooled their legal and monetary resources to do this and there ARE class action lawsuits against eBay and they ARE under investigation. You would be completely right in doing so as well. Rather than do that, you have decided to make claim to something that you have no legal right to, the MAME trademark, in an effort to either make a statement about these illegal practices, or give you legal leverage against these people in lawsuits. This does not justify your attempt at misuse of Trademark law. Your reco
...to waste this guy's time by selling burned copies of MAME on eBay.
:P
Sell schematics for MAME cabinets... Just download and sell for the cost of printing. It'll waste this guy's time, support MAME and the more-widespread use of MAME and you may even make a few cents per copy skimming a little on shipping.
That way you can "donate" (both time and money)...
The only downside is that it makes eBay money!
And hell, if eBay starts pulling auctions, start filing disputes and provide links to the trademark filing showing that it's not a valid trademark yet.
Hopefully the nightmare of support time that this will cause eBay will get them to not back this asshole in any way whatsoever and make his life more difficult.
Well...with all the fluctuating moderations of this post...
My karma has gone from Positive to Neutral. Thanks for marking this flamebait, guys...
I think it's perfectly appropriate...Although since MAME cabs and JAMMA hardware are a personal hobby of mine, I am understandably pissed about this issue.
He's trying to take away the legitimacy so that his company's product can be the only game in town.
People are starting to realize that he has a crap product that is exorbitantly expensive.
I have some strong ties in the arcade business (operation and distribution) as well as good friends in the emulation community.
When you can get a used DDR machine for less money than one of these things AND bring in more, why bother?
The Ultracade has been pushed on arcades by distributors because they get AMAZING deals on it and make LOTS of markup when they actually sell units to arcades. (A lot of distributors usually shy away from this sort of practice with most games because it's more profitable to "rent" a game out to an arcade and take a cut of the game intake. They do all the service of the machine (including coin emptying) so they can track an unmodified count and it's a good system. They can sell off old machines that aren't bringing in money and keep most of the money IN the business rather than moving through it.) The problem for the arcades is that they're pretty much grabbed by the balls. Their businesses are for the most part dying and old games still bring in enough draw to warrant keeping them around...but they can't devote all the space to multiple cabinets so they just get one of these puppies....
I wish our arcade industry was more like in Asia..where everyone gets the newest thing and you have multiple level/floor arcades and you just keep what brings in money. Times are tough over here though.
Anyway, this guy is just trying to solidify his business and since he has a crap business model, he's trying to bully out the competition while the opportunity to do so is still there. I hope people fight him tooth and nail and his company goes bankrupt.
The problem is that he's trying to make some cash from OTHER people's hard work. MAME has been around for 8 years now and this guy has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PROJECT.
What a fucking CUNT! I can't believe the balls of this company....I'm hoping in MAME's favor.
About 3 years ago I was using FreeBSD with FilterProxy installed and using Mozilla on top of that.
Two years I made the switch back to Slackware with Mozilla and stopped using FilterProxy.
I now use Firefox (after some annoying funkyness with Mozilla's download manager that suddently stopped working)
The point is. I run Linux and Firefox. I keep JavaScript, Java and Flash enabled. I have AdBlock but I rarely if ever use it and only to block annoying animated gifs.
JavaScript is only allowed to Raise and Lower Windows, Disable or Replace Windows, and Change Images.
I have not gotten a SINGLE popup. I do have Block Popups turned on.
Granted, I browse considerably less porn websites than I used to...but still.
I'm popup free. I can't understand why you guys are getting these popups except for maybe two possibilities:
1) You're browsing some EXTREMELY seedy TGP porn content.
2) It has something to do with your Wintel or MacOS machines.
Actually, the legality of it is even more interesting. There's something called "spousal privledge", which entitles a person not to say something damaging against their spouse, even under oath. There is an implied confidentiality there, just as there is with attorney-client privledge. To be able to collect evidence against your spouse and sue them based on it gets into a bit of a grey area, because it is somewhat expected that these actions break that confidentiality in the marriage, even though one party is clearly deceiving the other. The best reasoning I can figure for this is that the law is in place to keep marital issues out of the courts and within the marriage. The court probably deemed that this issue wasn't serious enough to need judicial intervention. It's an issue that has to be settled within the marriage. I'm no lawyer though.
But the PS2 is a crap machine compared to the Dreamcast.
The Dreamcast was killed off by:
1) Bad Marketing
2) Poor Game Disribution
3) Being intentionally snubbed by certain popular developers (namely EA and Konami) [Keep in mind that EA has wanted Sega out of business since the Saturn...]
4) Customers reluctance to abandon the Playstation.
5) Sony's repeated (and mostly false) claims that the Playstation would totally blow the Dreamcast away graphically and that people should wait for the PS2
I think that Sega made the right business decision to release the console early...as MS may be doing. Point 4 combined with Point 5 are important. Sega most likely would have done CONSIDERABLY WORSE in a head to head battle with Sony from the start. MS would be likely to do the same...especially wit h the hype surrounding the Cell processor.
Funny.... Intuit just announced that they will stop selling Quicken at the end of this month. They are only continuing with QuickBooks, TaxCut and TurboTax. Quicken sucks and is a waste of money and even Intuit knows it now.
Get a Fujitsu Pencentra 100 or 200 Tablet. (i think those are the correct model numbers anyway...) It'll be a bitch to get Linux on there, but it IS doable. It has two PCMCIA slots (you can put in a CF card reader) and takes IrDA. Decent battery life too. It's just huge. HUGE. Definately in your price range though.