the current relationship of CO2 and temperature have been diverging for 20 years.
CO2 has been pretty linear, temperature not so much.
Just what CO2 affects of the last 50 years are you worried about?
What mitigation has been needed? (hint, none)
Sea level rise is also very linear.
Additionally, you make the classic mistake of taking today's high frequency and high resolution data and comparing it to data that is naturally smoothed due to its measurement like ice cores.
We have had PLENTY of temperature excursions throughout the holocene, but none of those were caused by CO2, right?
Everyone knows folks well known in the relatively tiny tech sector are special, and need not have any particular rules applied to them....however, if my paperwork got fucked up I would also infer that some totally unrelated world leader is out to get me. I would say it was that nut from Tajikistan, I dont know him but I am sure he could use some negative press.
Sure. But CO2 and extinction patterns DO NOT line up.
Here is a view I agree with, yes, from a scientist....
rgbatduke says:
June 12, 2014 at 7:21 am
OK, here is a moderately interesting screen-scraped figure I cobbled together. I took the figure above showing atmospheric CO_2 and superimposed the curve showing global average temperature as inferred from the O18 proxy here:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wi...
Note that there is no attempt to map O18 to actual global temperature, but we can get at least some idea of how the map proceeds by considering the mean temperature in the current glaciation vs temperatures when Antarctica was ice free (suggesting that the temperature range from the peaks to the troughs of O18 is between 10 and 20 C, where on geological time the Earth is as cold as it has ever been since the Ordovician-Silurian glaciation 450 million years ago.
Here is the figure, where I literally traced the Phanerozoic curves and popped them on top of the figure above, scaling them so that their time scales corresponded. The grey bars are glacial epochs, the first one to the left is the O-S glaciation.
Combined CO_2 ppm and Phanerozoic O18 concentration
The figure kinda speaks for itself. It is this blatant disregard for what should be “common knowledge” to anyone publishing in climate science that really annoys me. How can you write a whole paper even weakly asserting that CO_2 variation caused mass extinctions by changing the climate without correlating the CO_2 concentration with the actual changes in the climate inferable from a far better proxy than “mass extinctions are sometimes caused by climate change”? How is it that no referee caught this omission? I don’t know about any of you, but I don’t see the slightest degree of correlation between CO_2 concentration and global average temperature.
Indeed, I would assert that this figure is absolutely, positively incompatible with the assertions that a CO_2 of 600 ppm implies any sort of climate change at all compared to the present. The Ordovician-Silurian glaciation occurred with mean CO_2 levels of ballpark 4000 ppm, sustained. Temperatures soared in mid-Permian with atmospheric CO_2 about where it is today, sustained (all of these peaks are tens of millions of years wide or wider — the entire industrial CO_2 increase plus its “catastrophic” projection isn’t even noise on the timescales involved). The oceans evolved sea life with shells with atmospheric CO_2 five to ten times what it is today. CO_2 in the entire era of the dinosaurs was order of 2000 ppm (5x present) and yet another weaker glacial era occurred across this time frame.
The only thing one can actually say with any degree of confidence from this replotting is this: CO_2 levels have, on a very coarse grained average basis, steadily decreased over the last 600 million years. At the same time, the Earth has undergone a cycle of heating and cooling that is almost completely flat when averaged in exactly the same way. You don’t need a calculator to eyeball nearly neutral planetary climate over the last 600 million years. Yes, that climate has ice ages and hothouse ages that last tens of millions of years. No, we cannot explain it. But the hypothesis that CO_2 is even a contributing cause fails to explain even the first order gross features of the variation. CO_2 has been falling at the rate of almost 1000 ppm/100 million years for 600 million years (eyeballing a linear regression of the data). Average global temperature hasn’t changed at all, for 600 million years (eyeballing a linear regression of the data).
And that, my friends, is something that I never seem to hear climate scientists acknowledge or discuss. Surely if CO_2 is the universal climate hammer, it would explain the primary variability of the data. Instead, if one attempts to cross-correlate the two curves in this plot (via, e.g. Kolmogorov-Smirnov) to see if there is any vagu
Denier? Post some sea level rise data. The earth is warming, ice melts. How much, how long, natural or not? What is it about the VERY LINEAR sea level rise of 2.4mm a year worries you?
"the temperature has increased faster than natural variability" say what?
So all of the temperature excursions over the Holocene were natural, until now?
https://upload.wikimedia.org/w...
Any of the positive temperature rises over the Holocene could have easily exceeded todays rate of change of temperature, and 1000 years from now if you looked at ice cores from today you would see the same smoothed curves. You are looking at high resolution, high frequency data and simply tagging it onto old low resolution, low frequency data and assuming you know what it means. You don't, or you would be famous.
And the "deniers" don't use 1998 as a cherry pick starting point, they use a regression from the mean techniques starting with TODAYS temps and working BACKWARDS until they see significant data. Please.
Fuckface, spend 10 years and $400k on becoming a doctor and work for free.
Develop free drugs at $1billion each.
Work the ER for 12 hours at a stretch for free.
You are obviously in the Obama "just tax the shit out of them" camp
And if I am paying for your fucking healthcare, you will be forced to lose weight, exercise, and quit smoking, especially all that weed.
Otherwise look after yourself and enjoy your freedom to fuck up and cost only yourself.
Apple has what, $233 BILLION cash on hand?
I don't need my phone to be paper thin, I do need a much larger removable battery. I need it to be cheaper. Your're welcome.
Rick,
The only pussy grabbing done recently was by your boy Bill, who was defended by your girl Hill.
Meanwhile jobs are up, stocks are up, and fanatical Islam is backpedaling. Fine by me.
If you could possibly define "hacked" it would help though, you probably mean the evil Russkies guessed Hillary's and the DNC's 01234 password?
Asked coworker out for coffee and got sued for sexual harassment.
Or looked at coworker wrong and got sued.
Or assumed I would be homophobic and got sued.
Or assumed my pay was more than female doing the same job, which I have no control over, and got sued.
Or after providing world with fantastic tech, sued for the manner in which I provided it, vs. developing social skills.
You can't handle the truth....
And Oregon emits only 0.6% of the national CO2, but hey, it's the thought that counts.
Kafoury is a dim wit, would rather put up tent cities for our meth addicts, and complain about the rents while simultaneously limiting development outside of the metro area with the Urban Growth Boundary.
We even have an additional level of government called METRO, that sucks up another $500 million in addition to the another $1 billion each for the three counties that comprise the Portland area, Multnomah, Washington, and Clackamas. Portland city budget is another $1 billion.
State budget is $36 billion a year, for four million heads, or $9000 per head, compared to say, Pennsylvania, at $2600.
Plus the local utility PGE has volunteered to be 15% green power, so to meet that purchased the shitty broke down wind farms previously put in around the gorge area years ago on govt backed programs. Now we all own green worthless crap.
Already scrubbed out nuke plate some years ago, demo'd the cooling tower. Had to make sure it could never make a comeback with newer tech and all.
Oregon, leading the way to bonehead land.
Based on the French graphic novel Le Transperceneige, Snowpiercer is Korean filmmaker Bong Joon-ho’s first English release. The plot involves a post-apocalyptic world that has entered a new ice age due to mankind’s failed geoengineering and climate-altering hubris. The amorphous chemical “CW7” is sprayed globally to halt a supposed “global warming” catastrophe, while the ice age actually occurs as a result of the chemical spraying, and not “climate change.”
Why do I NOT TRUST so called scientists just throwing the levaaaah.......
Shit, when I was a kid they changed their minds about how I should brush my freakin teeth, vertical out, horizontal in.
Per capita is a shit way of measuring CO2, used by SJW's to spread the blame. So we should concentrate at the top of the list, right?
1 QATAR 11.03 per capita But if we are not bullshitting ourselves, we need the actual CO2 output by country:
1 CHINA (MAINLAND) 2795054
2 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 1414281
43 QATAR 23186
So China is outputting TWICE the CO2 of the USA, and rising, but we are still the shits, right?
But hey, if per capita conveys your agenda better, definitely use that.
China is also increasing their coal fired electricity output by 20% in the short term, so they are NOT headed in your "right" direction.
Additionally, they could give a flying fuck about global anything, so you cannot believe a single word they say.
But you are keeping the poorest nations from investing in coal fired power generation by limiting lending based on CO2, so you are really going to fuck everyone with these policies. If you are claiming the CO2 will prevent us from entering into the next glacial period, I hope you are correct.
I keep thinking you CO2 nutballs would throw a switch to take us to 280ppm or lower tomorrow if you had the chance, the Snowpiercer Effect.....
"people who have jobs in the Bay Area but cannot afford to live there", I think we have found the problem, YOU CANT AFFORD TO LIVE THERE!
People who think they have some kind of right to live someplace are literally bonkers.
"And here's the underlying math. If Clinton wins the 19 states (and D.C.) that every Democratic nominee has won from 1992 to 2012,"
Does your underlying math say that a large percentage of young and old Bernie supporters have continually said they hate Hillary and will stay home or vote for Trump??
Jesus, what shitty reporting. Just how freaking much did they cheat, 10%, 20%?
Advertised numbers mean crap anyway since your mileage MAY VARY.
Is anyone a real journalist anymore?
Australia outputs 409,000 Kt of CO2 out of the worlds 35,669,000 Kt or 1.15%.
If Australia disappeared tomorrow it wouldn't do shit for global CO2, so your per capita measurement is useless.
Statistically Australia cannot affect global CO2, but let's fuck those Aussie's anyway, right?
Accepting you already think CO2 is THE control knob of everything and that we can control it at all.
How much of the global CO2 is that man made 36 Gt, 5%?? So the other 700 Gt is natural?
But you know exactly how much CO2 there SHOULD BE.....
Can someone please start making some sense?
Slashdot Mirror
the current relationship of CO2 and temperature have been diverging for 20 years. CO2 has been pretty linear, temperature not so much. Just what CO2 affects of the last 50 years are you worried about? What mitigation has been needed? (hint, none) Sea level rise is also very linear. Additionally, you make the classic mistake of taking today's high frequency and high resolution data and comparing it to data that is naturally smoothed due to its measurement like ice cores. We have had PLENTY of temperature excursions throughout the holocene, but none of those were caused by CO2, right?
Everyone knows folks well known in the relatively tiny tech sector are special, and need not have any particular rules applied to them....however, if my paperwork got fucked up I would also infer that some totally unrelated world leader is out to get me. I would say it was that nut from Tajikistan, I dont know him but I am sure he could use some negative press.
Sure. But CO2 and extinction patterns DO NOT line up. Here is a view I agree with, yes, from a scientist.... rgbatduke says: June 12, 2014 at 7:21 am OK, here is a moderately interesting screen-scraped figure I cobbled together. I took the figure above showing atmospheric CO_2 and superimposed the curve showing global average temperature as inferred from the O18 proxy here: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wi... Note that there is no attempt to map O18 to actual global temperature, but we can get at least some idea of how the map proceeds by considering the mean temperature in the current glaciation vs temperatures when Antarctica was ice free (suggesting that the temperature range from the peaks to the troughs of O18 is between 10 and 20 C, where on geological time the Earth is as cold as it has ever been since the Ordovician-Silurian glaciation 450 million years ago. Here is the figure, where I literally traced the Phanerozoic curves and popped them on top of the figure above, scaling them so that their time scales corresponded. The grey bars are glacial epochs, the first one to the left is the O-S glaciation. Combined CO_2 ppm and Phanerozoic O18 concentration The figure kinda speaks for itself. It is this blatant disregard for what should be “common knowledge” to anyone publishing in climate science that really annoys me. How can you write a whole paper even weakly asserting that CO_2 variation caused mass extinctions by changing the climate without correlating the CO_2 concentration with the actual changes in the climate inferable from a far better proxy than “mass extinctions are sometimes caused by climate change”? How is it that no referee caught this omission? I don’t know about any of you, but I don’t see the slightest degree of correlation between CO_2 concentration and global average temperature. Indeed, I would assert that this figure is absolutely, positively incompatible with the assertions that a CO_2 of 600 ppm implies any sort of climate change at all compared to the present. The Ordovician-Silurian glaciation occurred with mean CO_2 levels of ballpark 4000 ppm, sustained. Temperatures soared in mid-Permian with atmospheric CO_2 about where it is today, sustained (all of these peaks are tens of millions of years wide or wider — the entire industrial CO_2 increase plus its “catastrophic” projection isn’t even noise on the timescales involved). The oceans evolved sea life with shells with atmospheric CO_2 five to ten times what it is today. CO_2 in the entire era of the dinosaurs was order of 2000 ppm (5x present) and yet another weaker glacial era occurred across this time frame. The only thing one can actually say with any degree of confidence from this replotting is this: CO_2 levels have, on a very coarse grained average basis, steadily decreased over the last 600 million years. At the same time, the Earth has undergone a cycle of heating and cooling that is almost completely flat when averaged in exactly the same way. You don’t need a calculator to eyeball nearly neutral planetary climate over the last 600 million years. Yes, that climate has ice ages and hothouse ages that last tens of millions of years. No, we cannot explain it. But the hypothesis that CO_2 is even a contributing cause fails to explain even the first order gross features of the variation. CO_2 has been falling at the rate of almost 1000 ppm/100 million years for 600 million years (eyeballing a linear regression of the data). Average global temperature hasn’t changed at all, for 600 million years (eyeballing a linear regression of the data). And that, my friends, is something that I never seem to hear climate scientists acknowledge or discuss. Surely if CO_2 is the universal climate hammer, it would explain the primary variability of the data. Instead, if one attempts to cross-correlate the two curves in this plot (via, e.g. Kolmogorov-Smirnov) to see if there is any vagu
Tactical Keychains has some badass ones. Shout out to Brad!
Denier? Post some sea level rise data. The earth is warming, ice melts. How much, how long, natural or not? What is it about the VERY LINEAR sea level rise of 2.4mm a year worries you?
"the temperature has increased faster than natural variability" say what? So all of the temperature excursions over the Holocene were natural, until now? https://upload.wikimedia.org/w... Any of the positive temperature rises over the Holocene could have easily exceeded todays rate of change of temperature, and 1000 years from now if you looked at ice cores from today you would see the same smoothed curves. You are looking at high resolution, high frequency data and simply tagging it onto old low resolution, low frequency data and assuming you know what it means. You don't, or you would be famous. And the "deniers" don't use 1998 as a cherry pick starting point, they use a regression from the mean techniques starting with TODAYS temps and working BACKWARDS until they see significant data. Please.
Fuckface, spend 10 years and $400k on becoming a doctor and work for free. Develop free drugs at $1billion each. Work the ER for 12 hours at a stretch for free. You are obviously in the Obama "just tax the shit out of them" camp And if I am paying for your fucking healthcare, you will be forced to lose weight, exercise, and quit smoking, especially all that weed. Otherwise look after yourself and enjoy your freedom to fuck up and cost only yourself.
Apple has what, $233 BILLION cash on hand? I don't need my phone to be paper thin, I do need a much larger removable battery. I need it to be cheaper. Your're welcome.
Rick, The only pussy grabbing done recently was by your boy Bill, who was defended by your girl Hill. Meanwhile jobs are up, stocks are up, and fanatical Islam is backpedaling. Fine by me. If you could possibly define "hacked" it would help though, you probably mean the evil Russkies guessed Hillary's and the DNC's 01234 password?
Holy Dog Shit Batman, who the eff had any expectations of Bay Watch?
Maybe you can elaborate/justify the fucking huge tax rates on hotel rooms??
Asked coworker out for coffee and got sued for sexual harassment. Or looked at coworker wrong and got sued. Or assumed I would be homophobic and got sued. Or assumed my pay was more than female doing the same job, which I have no control over, and got sued. Or after providing world with fantastic tech, sued for the manner in which I provided it, vs. developing social skills. You can't handle the truth....
And Oregon emits only 0.6% of the national CO2, but hey, it's the thought that counts. Kafoury is a dim wit, would rather put up tent cities for our meth addicts, and complain about the rents while simultaneously limiting development outside of the metro area with the Urban Growth Boundary. We even have an additional level of government called METRO, that sucks up another $500 million in addition to the another $1 billion each for the three counties that comprise the Portland area, Multnomah, Washington, and Clackamas. Portland city budget is another $1 billion. State budget is $36 billion a year, for four million heads, or $9000 per head, compared to say, Pennsylvania, at $2600. Plus the local utility PGE has volunteered to be 15% green power, so to meet that purchased the shitty broke down wind farms previously put in around the gorge area years ago on govt backed programs. Now we all own green worthless crap. Already scrubbed out nuke plate some years ago, demo'd the cooling tower. Had to make sure it could never make a comeback with newer tech and all. Oregon, leading the way to bonehead land.
Based on the French graphic novel Le Transperceneige, Snowpiercer is Korean filmmaker Bong Joon-ho’s first English release. The plot involves a post-apocalyptic world that has entered a new ice age due to mankind’s failed geoengineering and climate-altering hubris. The amorphous chemical “CW7” is sprayed globally to halt a supposed “global warming” catastrophe, while the ice age actually occurs as a result of the chemical spraying, and not “climate change.” Why do I NOT TRUST so called scientists just throwing the levaaaah....... Shit, when I was a kid they changed their minds about how I should brush my freakin teeth, vertical out, horizontal in.
Trump has played more than 306 rounds in two months? So 5 rounds a day, that is a lot of gold alright.
Per capita is a shit way of measuring CO2, used by SJW's to spread the blame. So we should concentrate at the top of the list, right? 1 QATAR 11.03 per capita But if we are not bullshitting ourselves, we need the actual CO2 output by country: 1 CHINA (MAINLAND) 2795054 2 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 1414281 43 QATAR 23186 So China is outputting TWICE the CO2 of the USA, and rising, but we are still the shits, right? But hey, if per capita conveys your agenda better, definitely use that. China is also increasing their coal fired electricity output by 20% in the short term, so they are NOT headed in your "right" direction. Additionally, they could give a flying fuck about global anything, so you cannot believe a single word they say. But you are keeping the poorest nations from investing in coal fired power generation by limiting lending based on CO2, so you are really going to fuck everyone with these policies. If you are claiming the CO2 will prevent us from entering into the next glacial period, I hope you are correct. I keep thinking you CO2 nutballs would throw a switch to take us to 280ppm or lower tomorrow if you had the chance, the Snowpiercer Effect.....
Holy eff there are a lot of really scared liberals out there.
"people who have jobs in the Bay Area but cannot afford to live there", I think we have found the problem, YOU CANT AFFORD TO LIVE THERE! People who think they have some kind of right to live someplace are literally bonkers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
$31.5 billion for almost 13 million people? Shit, here in Oregon ours is $35 billion for 4 million. Ugh.
"And here's the underlying math. If Clinton wins the 19 states (and D.C.) that every Democratic nominee has won from 1992 to 2012," Does your underlying math say that a large percentage of young and old Bernie supporters have continually said they hate Hillary and will stay home or vote for Trump??
Just what is the temperature? http://realclimatescience.com/...
Jesus, what shitty reporting. Just how freaking much did they cheat, 10%, 20%? Advertised numbers mean crap anyway since your mileage MAY VARY. Is anyone a real journalist anymore?
Australia outputs 409,000 Kt of CO2 out of the worlds 35,669,000 Kt or 1.15%. If Australia disappeared tomorrow it wouldn't do shit for global CO2, so your per capita measurement is useless. Statistically Australia cannot affect global CO2, but let's fuck those Aussie's anyway, right? Accepting you already think CO2 is THE control knob of everything and that we can control it at all. How much of the global CO2 is that man made 36 Gt, 5%?? So the other 700 Gt is natural? But you know exactly how much CO2 there SHOULD BE..... Can someone please start making some sense?
Uh, how many times has the temperature go up and down over 1C across the Holocene? 100 times?