It would obviously have to be a separate facility, with just a common hallway to connect them. It could be done with a non-chemical process, such as a CNC machine, which mills away the copper. (Thus making recycling thereof much easier, since it would be virtually pure copper shavings.)
Boards would be washed in a non-toxic solution and placed into a "ziploc" bag for the customer to open. Perhaps they would have to agree to some kind of "disclaimer" in order to have a board made on-site? Let the lawyers figure that out!;)
There is definitely a learning curve (cliff) to these newfangled toys. I learned machine language on the 6502 and the Z80 family of processors, and haven't messed with it since. Heck, I even did hand-assembly of some simple routines with pencil and graph paper in the early/mid 1980's!
I recently acquired two different PIC dev kits, and have barely done more than break the shrink wrap and start reading the manuals that come with them. It's a different world, for sure!
There is a Hackerspace here in CT, but it's a good 30 miles away. Sigh. Still, I am considering that I should plan to make a trip up there sometime, specifically when they are doing a presentation on programming/developing for PICs, so that I can learn something from someone who has been there/done that. I'm sure that there are vids on Youtube I could watch, but I would much rather have someone there that I can ask questions, AND have my hands on the gear.
Wow... I just noticed that this text editor is about as slow as Commodore 64 BASIC! Yeesh!:P
I love this idea! If I was a millionaire, I'd be looking for a good storefront in a nice area right now, have my lawyer doing the paperwork, sign shop making the signs... what a great idea!:)
Sadly, I don't think there are enough tinkerers around anymore to make such a store profitable. We are relatively few and far between, much too scattered to make such a place viable... people would have to travel too far to get there.
What I envision would be more like a combo of Panera Bread, Starbucks and Radio Shack like it USED TO BE in the 1970's (but with today's tech!) and instead of regular tables and chairs, feature workbenches with a small pull-out extension for the coffee & food.:) (We don't want the coffee spilling onto the workbench!) You'd have a food counter, and a parts counter. Basic stuff, like resistors, would be free. Other parts like 2N3904's, small caps, PICs, etc. would be only pennies above the bulk cost of DigiKey or Mouser.
Now, to add to the appeal of the place, a rapid-fabrication PC board shop in the back, with reasonable prices. Upload your CAD specs, and then pay with a credit card... your PC board will be ready by the time you order that 2'nd cup of Joe.:)
I'm sure that my horrible 2'nd grade teacher must have passed away by now. There were a number of parents who had complained about her. Mrs Giordano, of Edison School, Bridgeport, CT. She was unbelievable. Interestingly enough, one of my classmates has GOOD memories of being treated well in that class! So, obviously, this lady had "favorites", while those that were NOT in her favor, were insulted, demeaned, and openly mocked.
I had a second grade teacher, who made NO efforts to disguise or withhold her contempt for some of her students! In fact, she openly showed it, daily. I remember so well, because I was one of those students for which she held contempt. I showed her, tho! In true GEEK fashion, I excelled in my work... IN HER FACE!:)
Same problem, here. It's also sluggish. The only "cure" to the sidebar overlap, is to reduce the size of the text to "microdot" and use my jeweler's loupe to read it.:P
Seriously, WHY do so many sites default to a 5 point font size? The site should allow users to enlarge fonts, and the formatting adjusts... like it did when we had PLAIN HTML.
No money in "NC-17"? I thought Pr0n was one of the biggest $$ making "industries" out there. It proliferates through its own channels. The people who want it, know where to get it. They have freedom to make their choice, while those who do not want to be subjected to such material don't have to be.
This is why I think the "ratings" system, while not perfect, is a very good compromise. It allows people to make intelligent and somewhat informed choices, easily.
That's really cool! Well beyond my current experience... my CPU knowledge is still back in the 80's!;) I was writing simple ML code for 6502 and Z80 back then. I still dabble with GWBASIC now and then.
I need to "get with the program" at some point, I know.
For now, I continue to tinker with analog electronics, and basic logic ckts. It's fun... that's what matters!
No, I'm not involved with the project, but I wish I was.;) I totally "get it", tho! I have been tinkering with electronics since I started connecting flashlight bulbs to batteries with wire, when I was just a little kid.
Yes, analog electronics can, certainly, be fertile ground for MURPHY! That's why what looks fantastic on paper, seldom works right in the real world! There's ALWAYS SOMETHING that's going to need some major tweaking to "get it right".
Yes, your point is valid, of course. Using one of those IC's would be "standard stuff". This project goes outside that... the idea here, was to take advantage of the existing hardware inside the phone, making NO modifications to the hardware of the phone, whatsoever.
This isn't like the crystal set, because in that case, the modulated RF carrier is converted directly to a varying DC level by the detector. That varying DC level drives the crystal earpiece to recreate the sound. You want power supplies to be steady, not varying, which is why the steady 22Khz tone is used in one audio channel.
"PZ" you pointed it out correctly - there is a DC blocking capacitor, so you can't just pull the channel high, it MUST toggle.
Although limiting heat buildup in voice coils is what is happening, that's not quite the right explanation.;) Without the DC blocking cap, one of the semiconductors in the output (either comp-pair, or "totem-pole") stage would be forcing a (relatively) large current through that voice coil. This would severely unbalance the transistors, resulting not only in severe distortion, but heating as you mentioned.
With a 44.1Khz sampling rate, the output at 22Khz is much closer to a squarewave than anything else. (Nyquist etc.) It will be 50% duty cycle, so it carries the maximum power for conversion. It WOULD be possible to send a datastream through that channel, as well, and cause little power loss by using FSK and then decoding that. (FSK at, say, several discreet frequencies between 22~20Khz, so each shift = several bits.) Keeping the frequency high, and the duty cycle constant, maintains the power supply at a steady level at all times.
This isn't like the crystal set, because in that case, the modulated RF carrier is converted directly to a varying DC level by the detector. That varying DC level drives the crystal earpiece to recreate the sound.
This project is using one of the two audio channels to produce a "constant carrier" for the specific purpose of creating a power supply to run other electronic devices. You want power supplies to be steady.
I think their idea of driving one of the audio channels at 22Khz, and converting that to DC for (a tiny amount of) power, is darned clever! This is "Hacking" in it's purest form! You are working completely within the parameters of the existing hardware, and yet doing stuff the original designers never intended. Bravo for creativity and inventiveness!
Thank you. My guess is that the story was submitted by more than one source, and someone picked the Aussie version for inclusion on the main page of Slashdot. In any case, it's an article that's very light on details... but the US versions you posted make a lot more sense... to US.;)
Altho I'm making this comment a little late, I wanted to add this thought to what I posted a few days ago, about resurrecting my old Commodore 64 system. I also ran a BBS from about 1990 to about 1994. During that time, an older friend of mine established contact (thru my BBS) with a friend's Mom. (Either divorced or Widowed, I forget, now!) They eventually fell in love, and have been married ever since! All because of my little Commodore BBS.:)
Unfortunately, the storage space wasn't like today, so I had to set older postings to be deleted as new ones were made. Their early communications were lost to numerous re-writes. The last data was preserved, however, so I posted it online as a "snapshot" of my old BBS. You can see it here:
Taking it literally... the moon is a satellite of the Earth. So is the space station. If they are both satellites, could one not also stretch the analogy beyond normal limits, and say that they are, in fact, both "moons"?;)
If you don't drink alcohol at all, you can't false positive.
I think the Law is still too soft on drunk drivers. I don't see a breathalyzer test as a violation of the 4'th in any way. Anyone stupid enough to consume alcohol, then get behind the wheel while impaired, needs to be caught... before yet another life is taken or marred forever.
Wow... now THAT I didn't expect to see happen! The link on my page for the HDD64 has apparently been Slashdotted!:(
I should have CORALized that link, as well. My apologies! I didn't think there would have been THAT much interest! (Either that, or his Host has ridiculously LOW usage limits!)
Here is the Google Cache of the site. I hope it helps!
That's not the same thing... not even close. It's cool, but still very different. You can't just "PEEK" and "POKE" (or LDA and STA) to an address to read/write data to/from this device. You need to install drivers. You need to know how to "call" those drivers, etc. Plus, little "toys" like this can get expensive!
Wiring expansions into the 8-bit CPU systems of yesteryear was so easy, and inexpensive. Usually, you only needed a handful of chips that cost less than $1 each. You could just solder wires onto the pins of the existing IC's in the computer to connect to your projects. (The closest we come to that now, is PICs.)
"Talking" to your new devices was easy, also. I built lightshow controllers, speech boards, and several other devices for the Commodore. The command/control interface was as simple as "PEEK" and "POKE" from Basic, or LDA and STA in assembly. No drivers. No DLL's. No college level courses required to learn these newfangled languages like "C" or Perl, etc. , no IDE's to learn, either.
Now you have to load a pile of DLL's, know how to set them up, pass parameters to/from them, etc.
Don't get me wrong... I am thankful for the high tech that we have now! It's just not as "hands-on" for more casual tinkerers, like it used to be.
Slashdot Mirror
It would obviously have to be a separate facility, with just a common hallway to connect them. It could be done with a non-chemical process, such as a CNC machine, which mills away the copper. (Thus making recycling thereof much easier, since it would be virtually pure copper shavings.)
Boards would be washed in a non-toxic solution and placed into a "ziploc" bag for the customer to open. Perhaps they would have to agree to some kind of "disclaimer" in order to have a board made on-site? Let the lawyers figure that out! ;)
Why do they always have to spoil things, anyway?
There is definitely a learning curve (cliff) to these newfangled toys. I learned machine language on the 6502 and the Z80 family of processors, and haven't messed with it since. Heck, I even did hand-assembly of some simple routines with pencil and graph paper in the early/mid 1980's!
I recently acquired two different PIC dev kits, and have barely done more than break the shrink wrap and start reading the manuals that come with them. It's a different world, for sure!
There is a Hackerspace here in CT, but it's a good 30 miles away. Sigh. Still, I am considering that I should plan to make a trip up there sometime, specifically when they are doing a presentation on programming/developing for PICs, so that I can learn something from someone who has been there/done that. I'm sure that there are vids on Youtube I could watch, but I would much rather have someone there that I can ask questions, AND have my hands on the gear.
Wow... I just noticed that this text editor is about as slow as Commodore 64 BASIC! Yeesh! :P
I love this idea! If I was a millionaire, I'd be looking for a good storefront in a nice area right now, have my lawyer doing the paperwork, sign shop making the signs... what a great idea! :)
Sadly, I don't think there are enough tinkerers around anymore to make such a store profitable. We are relatively few and far between, much too scattered to make such a place viable... people would have to travel too far to get there.
What I envision would be more like a combo of Panera Bread, Starbucks and Radio Shack like it USED TO BE in the 1970's (but with today's tech!) and instead of regular tables and chairs, feature workbenches with a small pull-out extension for the coffee & food. :) (We don't want the coffee spilling onto the workbench!) You'd have a food counter, and a parts counter. Basic stuff, like resistors, would be free. Other parts like 2N3904's, small caps, PICs, etc. would be only pennies above the bulk cost of DigiKey or Mouser.
Now, to add to the appeal of the place, a rapid-fabrication PC board shop in the back, with reasonable prices. Upload your CAD specs, and then pay with a credit card... your PC board will be ready by the time you order that 2'nd cup of Joe. :)
I'm sure that my horrible 2'nd grade teacher must have passed away by now. There were a number of parents who had complained about her. Mrs Giordano, of Edison School, Bridgeport, CT. She was unbelievable. Interestingly enough, one of my classmates has GOOD memories of being treated well in that class! So, obviously, this lady had "favorites", while those that were NOT in her favor, were insulted, demeaned, and openly mocked.
I had a second grade teacher, who made NO efforts to disguise or withhold her contempt for some of her students! In fact, she openly showed it, daily. I remember so well, because I was one of those students for which she held contempt. I showed her, tho! In true GEEK fashion, I excelled in my work... IN HER FACE! :)
Same problem, here. It's also sluggish. The only "cure" to the sidebar overlap, is to reduce the size of the text to "microdot" and use my jeweler's loupe to read it. :P
Seriously, WHY do so many sites default to a 5 point font size? The site should allow users to enlarge fonts, and the formatting adjusts... like it did when we had PLAIN HTML.
No money in "NC-17"? I thought Pr0n was one of the biggest $$ making "industries" out there. It proliferates through its own channels. The people who want it, know where to get it. They have freedom to make their choice, while those who do not want to be subjected to such material don't have to be.
This is why I think the "ratings" system, while not perfect, is a very good compromise. It allows people to make intelligent and somewhat informed choices, easily.
That's really cool! Well beyond my current experience... my CPU knowledge is still back in the 80's! ;) I was writing simple ML code for 6502 and Z80 back then. I still dabble with GWBASIC now and then.
I need to "get with the program" at some point, I know.
For now, I continue to tinker with analog electronics, and basic logic ckts. It's fun... that's what matters!
No, I'm not involved with the project, but I wish I was. ;) I totally "get it", tho! I have been tinkering with electronics since I started connecting flashlight bulbs to batteries with wire, when I was just a little kid.
Yes, analog electronics can, certainly, be fertile ground for MURPHY! That's why what looks fantastic on paper, seldom works right in the real world! There's ALWAYS SOMETHING that's going to need some major tweaking to "get it right".
Yes, your point is valid, of course. Using one of those IC's would be "standard stuff". This project goes outside that... the idea here, was to take advantage of the existing hardware inside the phone, making NO modifications to the hardware of the phone, whatsoever.
This isn't like the crystal set, because in that case, the modulated RF carrier is converted directly to a varying DC level by the detector. That varying DC level drives the crystal earpiece to recreate the sound. You want power supplies to be steady, not varying, which is why the steady 22Khz tone is used in one audio channel.
"PZ" you pointed it out correctly - there is a DC blocking capacitor, so you can't just pull the channel high, it MUST toggle.
Although limiting heat buildup in voice coils is what is happening, that's not quite the right explanation. ;) Without the DC blocking cap, one of the semiconductors in the output (either comp-pair, or "totem-pole") stage would be forcing a (relatively) large current through that voice coil. This would severely unbalance the transistors, resulting not only in severe distortion, but heating as you mentioned.
With a 44.1Khz sampling rate, the output at 22Khz is much closer to a squarewave than anything else. (Nyquist etc.) It will be 50% duty cycle, so it carries the maximum power for conversion. It WOULD be possible to send a datastream through that channel, as well, and cause little power loss by using FSK and then decoding that. (FSK at, say, several discreet frequencies between 22~20Khz, so each shift = several bits.) Keeping the frequency high, and the duty cycle constant, maintains the power supply at a steady level at all times.
This isn't like the crystal set, because in that case, the modulated RF carrier is converted directly to a varying DC level by the detector. That varying DC level drives the crystal earpiece to recreate the sound.
This project is using one of the two audio channels to produce a "constant carrier" for the specific purpose of creating a power supply to run other electronic devices. You want power supplies to be steady.
Just in case, here is the CORAL link:
http://eecs.umich.edu.nyud.net/~prabal/projects/hijack/
I think their idea of driving one of the audio channels at 22Khz, and converting that to DC for (a tiny amount of) power, is darned clever! This is "Hacking" in it's purest form! You are working completely within the parameters of the existing hardware, and yet doing stuff the original designers never intended. Bravo for creativity and inventiveness!
To borrow from Mr Spock; "Fascinating."
Thank you. My guess is that the story was submitted by more than one source, and someone picked the Aussie version for inclusion on the main page of Slashdot. In any case, it's an article that's very light on details... but the US versions you posted make a lot more sense... to US. ;)
What is "kit" in this instance?
"Kit and kit! What is kit?!" - Spock's Brain
Altho I'm making this comment a little late, I wanted to add this thought to what I posted a few days ago, about resurrecting my old Commodore 64 system. I also ran a BBS from about 1990 to about 1994. During that time, an older friend of mine established contact (thru my BBS) with a friend's Mom. (Either divorced or Widowed, I forget, now!) They eventually fell in love, and have been married ever since! All because of my little Commodore BBS. :)
Unfortunately, the storage space wasn't like today, so I had to set older postings to be deleted as new ones were made. Their early communications were lost to numerous re-writes. The last data was preserved, however, so I posted it online as a "snapshot" of my old BBS. You can see it here:
http://www.mymorninglight.org/C64/HoloDeck.htm
Taking it literally... the moon is a satellite of the Earth. So is the space station. If they are both satellites, could one not also stretch the analogy beyond normal limits, and say that they are, in fact, both "moons"? ;)
Here is the CORAL link to this:
http://ramascreen.com.nyud.net/nasa-names-2012-the-most-absurd-sci-fi-film-gattaca-is-the-most-realistic/
And here is the link to the movies with bad science:
http://ramascreen.com.nyud.net/check-out-bad-science-in-movies/
...and here, I thought INTELLIGENT people used Slashdot. I guess I was mistaken. Alcohol + driving = tragedy.
You've said "Beauty is only skin deep" in much more eloquent words.
Who are they trying to kid? This new(?) site/service is only going to set people up for 1-night-stands, with a very poor ratio of GOOD relationships.
Eharmony is for people who want to be serious and have a good LIFE.
This mess is for people who want to remain as shallow as rain puddles.
Choice is good: To each their own.
Agreed!
If you don't drink alcohol at all, you can't false positive.
I think the Law is still too soft on drunk drivers. I don't see a breathalyzer test as a violation of the 4'th in any way. Anyone stupid enough to consume alcohol, then get behind the wheel while impaired, needs to be caught... before yet another life is taken or marred forever.
Wow... now THAT I didn't expect to see happen! The link on my page for the HDD64 has apparently been Slashdotted! :(
I should have CORALized that link, as well. My apologies! I didn't think there would have been THAT much interest! (Either that, or his Host has ridiculously LOW usage limits!)
Here is the Google Cache of the site. I hope it helps!
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http%3A%2F%2Fwww.64hdd.com%2F64hdd.html
That's not the same thing... not even close. It's cool, but still very different. You can't just "PEEK" and "POKE" (or LDA and STA) to an address to read/write data to/from this device. You need to install drivers. You need to know how to "call" those drivers, etc. Plus, little "toys" like this can get expensive!
Wiring expansions into the 8-bit CPU systems of yesteryear was so easy, and inexpensive. Usually, you only needed a handful of chips that cost less than $1 each. You could just solder wires onto the pins of the existing IC's in the computer to connect to your projects. (The closest we come to that now, is PICs.)
"Talking" to your new devices was easy, also. I built lightshow controllers, speech boards, and several other devices for the Commodore. The command/control interface was as simple as "PEEK" and "POKE" from Basic, or LDA and STA in assembly. No drivers. No DLL's. No college level courses required to learn these newfangled languages like "C" or Perl, etc. , no IDE's to learn, either.
Now you have to load a pile of DLL's, know how to set them up, pass parameters to/from them, etc.
Don't get me wrong... I am thankful for the high tech that we have now! It's just not as "hands-on" for more casual tinkerers, like it used to be.
Wow, that really is a very heartwarming story! :)
Not just a Doctor... but on the Dean's List! Awesome! :)