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Teacher Suspended Over Blog About Students
English teacher Natalie Munroe is in a bit of hot water after she described the precious snowflakes in her class as: “Frightfully dim,” “Rat-like,” “Am concerned your kid is going to open fire on the school,” “I hate your kid,” and “Seems smarter than she actually is,” on her blog. The Central Bucks School District has suspended Natalie after parents complained to administrators. “It’s hard to know that you sat in her class for an hour and a half a day and for her to feel that way it is like, it is an awful feeling,” student Alli Woloshyn said.
as subject says
If you feel this way about our precious kiddies then please keep it to yourself. We don't want to shatter our impression of our kiddies.
I don't think this teacher's suspension over the blog is a violation of her rights online. Everyone is free to say what they wish without risk of government censorship. But on the flip side of the coin, everyone must also bear the consequences of their speech. She went online, said something stupid and now she has to deal with the consequences of that.
And frankly, she deserves to be suspended. Clearly, if she's posting this kind of stuff, her ability to teach those kids she refers to as idiots and rats is compromised. Does anyone want to be taught by someone who feels nothing but contempt for them?
My postings are informational and does not constitute legal advice. Act on it at your risk.
Whether or not she mentioned student's names it would be quite humiliating for a child to be in her class and read those comments and she is certainly not setting a good example.
...she would have included at least one post about union activity.
Ceci n'est pas un sig.
Link to the blog and/or archived copy?
It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
- E. Debs
She could've said all the bad things she wanted about her kids online, if only she'd stayed anonymous.
As long as Sk8rgrl1 is separated from the real person, nobody suspects the garbage they spew onto blogs and forums is from the same hands that grade their children's tests.
Kids have a way of living up to people's expectations. She expects these kids to act like animals, and they're fulfilling her expectations. I'd expect teachers to vent to each other about the students (and parents) they have to deal with, but venting in an online forum displays terrible judgement.
My mother works as a substitute teacher. She takes troubled kids that every else badmouths, treats them with respect, and gets them to open up, stop being disruptive, and actually start learning. If a teacher is having problems with kids, it is as much an indictment of the teacher as it is of the kids.
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
Not everyone likes you, nor should you expect as much; teacher or not.
Seeing where your students have deficiencies and addressing them is one thing. Being derogatory about it is something else. Teaching isn't the right job for her. The snide "precious snowflakes" remark is out of place. If your teacher talks that way about you, the trust relationship is shattered, no matter how strong your personality is.
Anyone got a link to a cached copy of it? I'm interested in seeing just what was written.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:sOtUI146FXAJ:natalieshandbasket.blogspot.com/2010/01/if-you-dont-have-anything-nice-to-say.html%3FshowComment%3D1297206567911+%22where+are+we+going+and+why+are+we+in+this+handbasket%22+if+you+dont+ahve+anything+nice+to+say&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a&source=www.google.com
"Frightfully dim," indeed.
I get hating your job, I get finding the students to be morons and unteachable, but to post about it in a way that you could be identified? Idiot.
http://transformativeworks.org/
Since when that should be a fireable offense?
I think she should be able to say whatever she wants to as long as she doesn't fall into libel. Sadly, that is beyond a lot of people.
Well maybe if you weren't such a stupid little whore Alli Woloshyn your teacher wouldn't think that way...
She oughta know that the only appropriate place to make disparaging comments about her students would be in the teacher's lounge amongst her fellow teachers.
Insulting children in a public forum causes parents to complain and get the teacher in trouble. In related news, the new model of ship, the trireme is entering production.
are stupid
Well, apparently we only want to buy from those who feel nothing but contempt for us, be employed by those who feel nothing but contempt for us, and be led by those who feel nothing but contempt for us. Why should this be any different?
I don't know why people have to make everything public these days. Whatever happened to the good old journal or diary? Call me old fashioned but if it's not meant to be public, then don't let it be public.
I went to school in the UK in the 70s and early 80s. The only difference between then and now is that in those days the teachers used to say it to your face.
What she says may or may not be true. However, if your lawyer, your doctor, your martial arts instructor posted crap like this, how long do you think they would stay in business? Kids attending a public school don't have the option of shopping around.
"All things are legal to me, but not all things are conducive. All things are legal to me, but not all things are constructive."
Think about what you do before you do it, what potential ramifications it may have. Just because you CAN do it doesn't mean you SHOULD. And remember: anything you say on a publicly accessible Web site is publicly accessible (it should go without saying).
-uso.
What you hear in the ear, preach from the rooftop Matthew 10.27b
between "too smart for her own good" and "seems smarter than she actually is," there isn't much room in formal schooling i'm afraid.
also, note the sweet irony of her including the derogations: "complainer," "rude, beligerent [sic], argumentative fuck," and "tactless."
see you in hell, bitch.
"They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
I criticized my child's teacher for her blatant discrimination against my daughter; she had her teachers' union lawyer threaten me with a libel suit and the school district told me I was no longer allowed to communicate with any school district staff. The next year, I complained because her new teacher gave every other child in the class the choice to sit in a chair, but insisted my daughter sit on a blue "X" on the floor, again a violation of state educational discrimination statutes. The school's response was to lie about what what going on the the classroom, again insist I was not allowed to contact any school staff, and a trespass order restricting me from school property (for simply saying "discrimination is illegal, stop it" in the school office). Let's face it, schools are NOT bastions of free speech. If they insist on bitchslapping students and parents for speaking their minds, they need to apply the same standards to the teachers and staff!
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
...being a on a public street and stating "my students are dumb as bricks". It's not. It is simply a matter of fact that this teacher posted it on Facebook? So what. Why do teachers have to be so politically correct outside of their jobs? They shouldn't have to. Did she specifically name a person? If she spoke generically, then she should not be suspended. If she spoke about an specific individual and called them out via Facebook, then this is another matter. Frankly, I feel teacher have been too restricted over the last half century. They are the people who spend a lot of time around your children. If they observe extreme ignorance or stupidity and are frustrated then they should be able to vent.
And frankly, all these parents whose children are in her classroom, might just want to stop and start taking a real interest in their children's education.
This one time when there was a teacher in a rural town way back when. She taught in a one room school house. One day she went out into the town square and loudly proclaimed for all the towns folk to hear how stupid her students were. She was sacked.
Then a new teacher was hired. Whenever her small group of close friends came over for a dinner party, she would tell them all how stupid her students were in the privacy of her own home. She kept her job.
If you don't like your students, that's fine. You can think they are all dumb as a box of rocks even. And you are welcome to rant about them in private. But in public, unless you want to lose your job, keep your fool mouth shut.
This is a real link to the text of the original blog and, shockingly enough ... it's just a blog.
The teacher does not call out any particular students by name. She is talking about her feelings about teaching students in aggregate, with the overall impression that she's considering several years' worth of students.
The list of comments reads like a joke -- she's making up comments that she'd like to say, but doesn't. It's a wacky list.
The students' comments in TFA are still spot-on -- you wouldn't like to sit in a classroom where you had a teacher who thought of you this way -- but you know what? You did. We've all had teachers like this. The difference is, in our day the teacher couldn't be summarily canned for holding opinions. Welcome to the 21st century, where even teachers aren't allowed to think.
Breakfast served all day!
Yet the President of the United States can openly cheat on his wife and have no repercussions!
There have been many many articles over the years about a major problem in our schools where kids just get shuffled through the system, without issues being addressed, because teachers are afraid of backlash from p parents and administrators when they want to hold a kid back a grade or put them in a remedial program, or TEACH THEM HOW TO READ at the level they are supposed to be at. Also everyone always complains about how teachers are so "bad". So when a teacher decides to take it upon themselves to call out some of these problem kids it is met with suspension and ridicule? Perhaps a public blog wasn't the best place for this analysis but if we are going to suspend teachers for voicing their professional opinion on a kids academic and personal situation, how will this problem be fixed? They are already scared to even teach certain things. Are we going to scare them into not even wanting to care about our kids at all? Just push them through and get to summer vacation, right?
"I hope you know how very lucky you are to know me, because I am so incredibly incredible."
Barring that, I want them to at least have wisdom and common sense. This lady, by writing what she did, is obviously neither wise enough nor smart enough to have figured out that it was a stupid thing to do. That puts her on par with those teenagers that post public pictures of themselves french-kissing a shoe while drunk.
#DeleteChrome
...that's sadly still no excuse. My cousin recently became a teacher, and had to delete pretty much his entire online identity (or at least, the ones the school system knows about, like facebook, twitter, myspace, etc), as the school had warned him that stuff like this can and will happen, and they would rather avoid it.
What do I know, I'm just an idiot, right?
Dear Ms. Munroe,
Okay. I get it. Parents should take an active role in educating their children. That makes sense Ms. Munroe.
But you are also responsible for those students' educations to some extent. If they are frightfully dim, less intelligent than they appear, and so on, isn't it sort of your job to help them with that? So they suck at abstract reasoning? Teach them how to reason better. So they can't do well in mathematics? Find a better way to teach mathematics. So they are petty and dramatic? Well they are only kids, at least they have that excuse. You, however, are supposed to be a responsible adult. Insulting children on the internet is just a bit petty don't you think? Maybe they are simply learning from example.
Of course, you can only do so much. And I can understand how that could be frustrating. However, the rest of us professionals have to deal with frustrating shit in our jobs every day as well. The difference is, we don't necessarily go home to insult our coworkers on the internet after a bad day. So, yes, children should be smarter. Rather than bitch about that, how's about you do your damned job and help them along that path?
Sincerely,
An Adult
If anything, it sounds like Ms. Munroe was insulting her own teaching abilities more than anything.
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I'm divided on this controversy, because I also know a couple of teachers. They post on Facebook, or they show up in IRC chat, and the number one thing that seem to like to talk about is how there's this one kid that they just absolutely want to strangle some days. Or lesser injustices like kids not doing their homework and such. Considering the stress of the environment and the lack of discipline in some kids, I think it's fair that teachers should want to vent now and then.
What bothers me more about the OP is that the teacher didn't blog behind a pseudonym or behind a locked Facebook post. I'm not sure that putting your actual name on a blog and making it moderately clear which kids you're dissing is a mature thing to do in any case.
Libertarians somehow believe that private businesses should be stronger than governments but weaker than individuals.
What exactly is wrong with calling lazy, sneaky, rude teenagers "lazy", "sneaky" and "rude"?
This has nothing to do with rights. Her rights weren't violated. If I created a blog an posted angry and insulting comments about my employer's customers, I would expect to get fired.
A teacher going online and calling her students stupid, then getting suspended for doing so.
To quote the illustrious Forrest Gump: "Stupid is as stupid does."
http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/pages/Join-if-you-have-ever-felt-personally-victimized-by-Natalie-Munroe/192028104150265?v=wall
reading the headline I though the writer(s) of tard blog was finally outed.
Maybe she does have a class full of idiots.
You can't tell me that it's impossible, nor even statistically improbable, that she has an entire class of sub-average students.
When people run across something like that, why don't they copy it? So that even if it's later taken down, they can post a copy for others to see?
I mean, in Firefox it's as simple as File | Save Page As...
I suppose in some cases there might be copyright issues, but in other cases there would not. But I don't think I have ever seen it done.
Well, the suspension doesn't bother me, either.
What bothers me is that NOW I WANT TO READ THE BLOG!
Is she not just complaining about her work environment? http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/3725380-418/changes-after-facebook-ruling.html
You can't fucking see it here. Fuck slashdot up the ass and set it on fire. You're motherfucking done.
All teachers think this about their students sometimes. Maybe this one shouldn't have posted it for the world to see, but what do you think the teachers talk about in the teacher's lounge?
Mad Software: Rantings on Developing So
Here is a google cache of her blog post. To me, its seems she just had to vent it out. Judge it for yourselves.
So glad we will be home schooling our children. The public school system is a giant mess.
Not sure about highschool, but in college I was threatened with a libel lawsuit and expulsion after publicly stating that Mrs Rainy-Moore "couldn't teach a toddler how to crap itself."
The lawsuit was a joke of a threat, but when the dean tells you to apologize or you'll get booted 4 credits from being done and over $20k in debt, you do what he says.
-Rick
"Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
I had a second grade teacher, who made NO efforts to disguise or withhold her contempt for some of her students! In fact, she openly showed it, daily. I remember so well, because I was one of those students for which she held contempt. I showed her, tho! In true GEEK fashion, I excelled in my work... IN HER FACE! :)
Willie...
I will be more careful in the future to be nicer, more sympathetic, and gracious to people--both to their faces and behind their backs--since maybe it will make all the difference in their lives (even if I never know about it!) I will also endeavor to look differently toward situations that seem inconvenient to me at first. If I hadn't had to share my room with him, for instance, I wouldn't have gotten to know him better. I might not have realized how badly he was treated and how much he didn't deserve it. I might not have realized that I may inadvertantly (or unknowingly) contribute to--or at least not improve--the problem. For those, and other, reasons, I'm actually really glad I had to share my room with this person.
ahahahahhhahhahahaa oh wow
If a student or the parents of a student made similar comments about the teacher, would the student be suspended?
There is so much awesomeness and win in that story that I'm going to go to Doylestown, PA and protest her suspension and demand her immediate promotion to Supernintendo Chalmers!
Considering that it's her job to teach them, isn't it really her fault that they are "frightfully dim?"
so it's cool for kids to do it but not teachers?
You seem to have missed out on the required reading for this class.
Why the term "snowflake" in the summary? Not enough racism going around to suit Slashdot these days?
It's not intended as a racist term, at least not when put together with "precious". See:
It has origins in the old sayings about every snowflake being unique (hence, "precious").
that dumbing down is in effect and anyone who speaks out against it will be removed.
"Beautiful Snowflakes" - its a reference to the belief that we are unique individuals, just like snowflakes. Rationally, of course, that isn't the case. Personalities, backgrounds, and other observable/measurable traits can be classified into several neat categories and dealt with using common techniques. Snowflakes are not unique either. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowflake#Uniqueness I'm sorry, but you are the only one here seeing racism...
Children are there to learn and fear of being publicly insulted as unintelligent for giving a wrong answer is counter-productive to the job of an educator. My aunts were teachers for 40 years each. They had kids that they complained about. One student was so bad, she even ended up costing my aunt her annual achievement bonus. But to do it in a public forum is not in the best interest of the student and I can see firing this teacher.
Let's admit it. We all hate teenagers. They often remind us of what we did not like about ourselves at that age. The arrogance, naivety and ignorance combined to make one annoying package. We hate to admit that at one time we were like that, but we were (and some still are). We blame the technology as a differentiator between the generations, but in the end it is just another channel to exhibit the same flaws we shared at those times in our development. That being said, those of us who, despite all this, do not hate teenagers should become educators. Those who do, need to find new employment as you cannot have the best interest of the student in mind when you secretly (or in this case publicly) despise them.
Then so can the teachers.
Link! .
I don't know about you but her comments are pretty funny. True though, it's probably not the best thing to blog about as a teacher. The students' comments were pretty great.
Sounds like:
A. The truth hurts
B. She may be as "Frightfully dim" as she accuses her students of being.
Nevermore.
Their classes are an hour and a half long? When I was in school classes were 50 minutes.
Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
Mirrored here.
For those whose Latin is rusty, try William Whitaker's Words. Cicero's proverb will give you a good laugh.
quiquid id est, timeo puellas et oscula dantes.
They have no right to a union, no right to speak, no right to demand respect from students. Everybody except teachers knows exactly how to teach just as those who use computers or cars know everything there is about how to design and build them. Education is a mess because of worthless, lowlife teachers and despite the heroic efforts of principals, administrators, parents, taxpayers, and former students. All the smart people on Slashdot taught themselves everything they know, and, as former students, are experts not only at being students but also on being teachers. Teachers should be fed to the hogs, or better still, the students. Just imagine how much money it would save if students taught themselves and ate ground teacher instead of tax-payer supported lunchmeat.
I don't work for a school district, or, of course, I would be suspended and muzzled for this post. Quite right, too.
I don't hate teenagers. I hate humans that are arrogant, naive, and ignorant. You might say "many teenagers are that way," but in my experience, I've found that the average member of society has all three of those traits, not just teenagers. However, I'd never even think about becoming an educator (due to how badly the 'educational' system is handled as of now).
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
These are probably the most honest and factual assessments of you darling children that you will ever hear. But you are deaf to it.
If she didn't reveal her identity, or the student's identities, I think she has every right to say what she does. But if the teacher wasn't smart enough to think that one through, then I guess she had it coming to her.
Meh, mod this crap down, I followed a link to her blog post and read it myself. I'll admit, she lacked tact in that she posted some pretty poor taste humor. But she wasn't actually insulting any of her students directly.
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What I find remarkable is that so many parents got upset its like they picked on and noticed her comment matched their kid. You would would think most parents would just wonder who the heck she was talking about and assume it wasnt their child.
I nearly wet myself while reading the comments thread over at TFA. Post after post bitching about how stupid the kids are these days... and these same posts are riddled with spelling and grammatical errors. Wasn't there a Bible verse, I don't know, something about motes and beams? Holy crap.
Then there are the posts that on one hand, bitch about the "arbitrary" firing of the teacher, and the evils of teacher's unions... in the same post!
People are nuts.
Seriously? You can't understand the difference between a student complaining about the teacher, and the teacher complaining about the student? Here's a hint: the teacher is supposed to be the RESPONSIBLE one of this matchup.
Parents who are stupid have children who are stupid.
Just mod down her blog. Then nobody will see it. Trolling about kids is no reason for a perma-ban.
would she be fired? I seem to recall many people lauding the labor board's decision against an employer who took action against an upset employee who bad mouthed her employer.
Or do we need to pass a certain threshold of being mean?
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
Learning the hard truth that your little precious is actually a sniveling little shit that has a sense of self-entitlement that dwarfs many countries is a hard thing. Not that the truth shouldn't be known, but you shouldn't fire the bringer of said truth.
As long as she didn't disclose the names of any students the comments were directed at it is free speech. If she did disclose the names of individual students in connection with the comments then she should be fired.
"GET / HTTP/1.0" 200 51230 "-" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; Setec Astronomy)"
The settled court case where an employee complained about their boss(es) on Facebook. Granted, the employee had a union backing them up and there wasn't an actual court ruling, but still. How is it that /.ers approve of punishing the employer for retaliation in one case but not the other?
They are not paid to assist in the development of anything. They are paid to make sure the kids get a passing grade on a test so the school can continue to receive government funding, so the school can remain open and pay the faculty and administrators.
Your kid fights at school? They call the cops now and let them deal with it.
Your kid threatens another kid? Both get suspended and its the parents issue to deal with it.
Your kid being a normal kid and wanting to play/explore/do anything but sit in a chair for 2 hours straight? You are told your kid as ADHD by a non-qualified wanna be student counselor and advised if you don't get him or her on meds they will suspend your kid and report you to Social Services.
Teachers don't do shit now to raise your kids. They aren't babysitters, but they are not surrogate parents anymore either. They do not teach your children how to socialize and deal with social problems, they teach them to run to authority and take whatever justice they are handed, and that most of the time they won't get in any real trouble anyways. They teach them that adults don't care and won't listen to them and gee, we wonder why they crawl inside computers when they get home rather than going outside to play...
The fact a teacher spends more of their day with your kid than you do....by law!...means yes, they share a part of the burden for raising these kids. The government and the administration don't see it like this anymore though. And now neither do the teachers. They are neither role model nor inspiration. We took away their power to be a surrogate parent when we said corporal punishment was bad, when we said the kid has more say in court than an adult does. For a Nanny State we sure as hell are doing a great job of ignoring our kids into delinquency. If you can't see that, you really are a part of the problem.
Who were apparently educated by teachers like this one.
Her comments, actually, are not about specific students but what she would like to have available as report card comments. Still inappropriate and not very smart blogging in such an identifiable manner.
Here's a Google cache, which I'm sure will go away, leaving us with 4th hand rehashed content as a 'primary' source in this story
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?oe=utf-8&rls=com.mandriva%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&client=firefox-a&hl=en&q=cache:sALNOuknr30J:http://natalieshandbasket.blogspot.com/2010/01/if-you-dont-have-anything-nice-to-say.html+http%3A//natalieshandbasket.blogspot.com/2010/01/if-you-dont-have-anything-nice-to-say.html&ct=clnk
This is yet another example of people testing limits. Is it too far to say what you feel without naming names? That's a really good question for this case. When I was younger, kids respected adults. These days, kids have it in their heads that they can sue for anything and everything and have no need to fear or respect adults. This comes from society and parents and it's a damned shame. And this teacher is literally a product of the generation when I think things started to go bad. Not only did her students lack respect, but she did she and clearly she saw nothing wrong with it.
So what do we have? Well, we have children growing up without that essential "life/social skill" called respect. They grow up into adults without that life/social skill and are then left wondering what went wrong when their lack of respect bites them in the ass.
Childhood is about teaching children to be GOOD ADULTS. It is not only about protecting them from the evil world. It is about teaching them to deal with and survive in this evil world and maybe even to help it be less evil. Sure, protect your kids, but you're not doing your job as a parent if that's ALL you do.
Is somebody a little distressed from not being spanked enough as a kid? Ah, I tell you what little guy. How about you go play in the corner with your GI Joes while us adults talk about this, ok? If you stay in that corner and play with your toys, you will get a sucker if you are good. How does that sound?
Here, you take me seriously, thinking I am actually insulting the original poster for saying people should not be offended by words. But if I am being insulting, aren't I negating my own point? First fucking clue you should have seen.
Back to the adults talking now: Teacher or any profession, it is known that while employed, you do not talk about your dislike of the job anywhere and let people know it is you. I don't really care that she is a teacher, as this applies to all fields. You talk trash, you get fired.
Can't fault you for this, it is absolutely true.
As for the kids/parents: stop being so damn shocked that your kid is stupid. Today, everybody thinks their kid is the best and smartest. Well, many of your's are not. Face it. Maybe get them to bulk up and play football or a sport that they don't have to think about so that they can still send you a check. Either that or let them work in a kitchen until they retire. Who knows, I have seem some idiot Kitchen Managers. Maybe he can work his way up the Chiilli's ladder. Sorry, but your kid sucks. Stop getting all offended when you know it is true and somebody tells you the truth.
Stop being so offended that someone insulted someone else on the Internet. Stop giving advice no one needs. Stop trying to sound so superior to everyone else, it isn't working.
For the parents that were offended: If you visit /. at all, you kid sucks. Teach them to cook or get them into sports. That is about all you can hope for.
Okay, rereading this it is obvious you were, as the Brits say, taking the piss. Damn it, maybe the troll has been trolled. What fun is that, two trolls trolling each other? Stick to civilians, don't bust into someone else's troll thread and ruin the fun.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
Wasn't it reported just last week that a child could not be suspended for posting about their teacher on facebook? Then why can't a teacher post generic comments about students? The ACLU took up the student's case, who will take up the teacher's (and what she said was less inflammatory than the student's posting)
You know this is only because it was written down
She could have just stuck to bitching to friends, in a public coffee shop, within ear of the world - and no-one would care.
I'm not into preying on children (in this case, I'll include >16yo) if it's sexually, emotionally, etc abusive. Imo what she did was no better than what Letourneau did. (Of course, maybe she has severe mental issues like Letourneau, too.)
First thing's first: if she believed a kid was going to OPEN FIRE on a classroom, it's her responsibility to make it official to keep everyone else safe. Hello, VA Tech shootings.
"Frightfully dim" and other negative epithets — her job is to teach and grade their work, not judge a student. She's clearly not in the right profession. And yeah, let's go Letourneau again: what if she'd found a "hot yummy sex god".
Don't they have psychological evals for teachers?! It's one thing to THINK things, but completely unprofessional and off-balanced to publish the thoughts. If Natalie Munroe's sane, what a bitch!
I think it's her responsibility as a teacher to report someone she believes might SHOOT UP a classroom — she completely dropped the ball there. It's thanks to "teachers" (heh) like her that school massacres happen. Forget her identity or the students', she needed to REPORT that shiznit. Maybe get the guy some help if nothing else.
Re: negative epithets, they CAN go on a report card. I got all As, but PLENTY of remarks from teachers that weren't complimentary AT ALL. Now as a parent, when I get 'canned responses' from teachers, I go face-to-face with them and ask questions. Plenty of teachers put concerns, etc on report cards (though maybe phrased a bit more diplomatically, ie, "X is making fine grades but isn't living up to full potential.") A teacher's thoughts, if they're 'imporant' enough to be published and aren't just split-second angry moments, SHOULD be discussed w/ other teachers and parents.
Of course, a child can't help his/her appearance, so 'rat face' isn't going to go over well in any venue. But she's a teacher, not a Project Runway judge.
the vast majority of these comments are by people who don't have to endure a high school classroom daily. High school freshmen in particular are some of the most ill-behaved specimens of human beings you can find. I frankly don't blame this teacher in the least, except for her failure to blog anonymously
I've had plenty of good teachers, but very few classes with respectful, disciplined students. If there is a problem with public schools today, it's that parents don't teach their kids proper manners and respect. Frankly, given the garbage that is the youth of today, I wonder how anyone can possibly want to teach.
After reading her post, and thinking about some of the kids in my kids' school, and some of the students at the college I work at, I find her views refreshingly honest and to the point. There are high school seniors in our town that need several tries to spell their own names correctly (they never figured out how to add the correct spelling to their Spell-Check) and college students who can't multiply a series of numbers by 1 or 0, or find the average of two 2-digit numbers in their heads (petulantly demanding that "I didn't think this course would require so much math, I'm not very good at math, can I use a calculator?"). Our school systems in the States are overflowing with smarmy goodness: every child is just the way they were meant to be, and destined for greatness if they can take two consecutive frickin' breaths without choking on their own spittle. In contrast, when I was in 7-8th grade I had a teacher who would slam a yardstick edge-on onto our knuckles if we misbehaved. We didn't do it more than once or twice.
i'll catch you in the parking lot
but seeing how she NEVER IDENTIFIES ANY PERSON I don't see how her rant matters
Yet you post with your handle attached? Idiot.
Professors could warn others not to let that one angry anti-scocial kid enroll, or watch out for the guy that really copies all of his assignments.
I would call it "Rate my student" and professors could click on a dimness scale, or give three tears for really, really whiny..
...can and will be used against you. So never, ever post anything with your real name attached. There's nothing in it for you but grief.
No... she did not. She was very vague and just listed some general comments she "wished she could use" for some students.
Also, this is dated January 2010. What are the chances that she would be teaching the same students in 2011, anyways?
Neither the article nor the TV segment said that she "continuously" insulted or degraded anybody. Quite the contrary, actually. From the way they reported it, most of the quotes they were using were not only explicitly said by the report NOT to refer to any one student by name but, in fact, most of the rough stuff, if it can even be considered that, sounds like it came from one rant on an active blog with many posts. And oh, by the way, what you're so upset with is not stuff she said to kids but on a blog done on her free time that none of them were even aware of for years. Looks like this is punishment for thought crime to me.
So who's kneejerking? I'd say that's YOU, cobber.
Oh, and by the way, look at the quotes they give. Most of them are things like "rude" that apply to most high school kids at least half the week. What kind of teachers did you have that you think they shouldn't admit even basic truths like those?
You're all terrible. Because if you work a certain you're somehow exempt from freedom of speech. Whatever the teacher says in her spare time is her own damn business. And if she wants to express her frustration with her students then she has the right to do it
Or should we also fire teachers that go out and get drunk during their weekends off because they're being bad role models. Also, we should monitor them 24/7 with cameras and bugs to make sure they're living up to that good role model status.
It's a bunch of parents getting in a fuss because some teacher called their students dim witted and lazy. Which, if you've noticed the parent can't possibly accept that their child is dim witted or lazy, even if they are. Also, little bobby would never get drunk or have sex, he would just never do such a thing. Parents are most often the worst judge of character of their children. Quit heckling this teacher for saying what she thinks. At least she has the balls to step forward and speak the probable truth.
i just read through the entire blog, including comments. here's the cache link,
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:sOtUI146FXAJ:natalieshandbasket.blogspot.com/2010/01/if-you-dont-have-anything-nice-to-say.html%3FshowComment%3D1297206567911+natalieshandbasket.blogspot.com+rat+dim&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=www.google.com
for those that don't have time to read it and take the quotes in context, here's the jist of it. she's complaining about the process of writing comments on report cards. she says it takes too long, and talks about how she was to sugar-coat her thoughts. for example, "socially awkward" ==> "works well independently". she then takes this idea to an extreme and creates a bullet list of what she'd really like to say ... which is where the "dim-witted" and "rat-like" quotes are coming from (and it there are lots of other good ones in her blog). i think maybe she was trying to get her point across with humor, i'm not sure.
if we took 100 high schoolers are evaluated them, i am sure most of us would judge a large percentage of them awkward, or self-centered, lazy, air-headed, etc. that's just how high-schoolers come across. it's an awkward time in a human's life. if i met myself at 16, i am sure i'd think i was a jerk (and the 16 yo me would think the current me if a jerk also, probably). sure there are the exceptional high schoolers that managed to grow up early and are already well on their way to well adjusted adults, but that is not the norm.
which is this teacher's mistake. you can't expect high school kids to have it figured out, and if you can't handle that, then don't get involved with them.
about 1/2 of the comments were from current or former students. it was quite sad. there was one person who thought (knew) that some of the blog text was referring to her specifically. a lot of students were just hurt to find out that their instructor has these thoughts running through her head about them. she didn't mention names in ber blog thank god, but then again, that leaves every student wondering if they are the "dim-witted" one. say what you want about the value of honesty, but respect earns respect. she just lost any ability to teach any student that is aware of that blog.
The BEST teacher I ever had never insulted anyone in class or public, that I know of. My FAVORITE, and one of the best, teachers I had routinely insulted the kids in his class. He was generally hated and feared by most students. But even the worst student in the school got better grades in his class than in years before or after. He was a great teacher, but routinely hit students with flying chalk or erasers if they weren't paying attention (impressive for a one-armed man). Today he'd be canned in a heartbeat. To the loss of the students. His aim and timing were finely honed. I'll never forget the chalk smoke flying off the back of George's head when caught talking in class, yet again.
So in other words much like for Egypt, teachers need means to avoid censorship and punishment from the "government" at large.
It's hard to know what this student is trying to say. Ms Munroe clearly failed as an English teacher.
Name names? No. But, if you read the post via one of the cache links posted here, you'll see that what she did was effectively say "if I wrote this particular thing on your report card, it means I couldn't think of anything nice to say about you," so each student will know whether or not any of the comments should apply to them... they can then pick and choose which one of the insults is most relevant.
how the Net opened our eyes to who we are? I mean, we are all afraid of surveillance and data mining by great powers - corporations and governments. But the greatest abuse IMO is done by common people on other common people.
Think about it - nowadays you go to an interview for a job. It usually starts with the HR department. They check your online activities and find something that makes you unsuitable in their opinion. But wait, who is deciding you are unsuitable? A common employee from the HR. Sometimes there are company guidelines but often there aren't any. The spread of information gives EVERYONE the possibility to evaluate everyone else and all of a sudden not only your professional credentials are under scrutiny but also the rest of your character. The availability of this personal information makes the process EVER MORE SUBJECTIVE. We are people - we are "trained" by evolution and society to judge. Constantly. And we are always biased.
What I want to say but cannot find the right expressions is that perhaps the sharing of so much personal information is not good. For all of us. We cannot handle it. Just like personal freedom in society is difficult to handle, because it comes with responsibility, this access to personal information also demands that we are not blinded by our own bias (or keep it to a minimum at least). That's a very tall order for most humans. Very tall...
Whats sad is that the teacher wasn't bright enough to realize this themselves.
WTF is it going to take to get people to realize that posting private thoughts online is an incredible retarded thing to do?
Personally, I think anyone who uses Facebook shouldn't be allowed to teach in general. There should be a certain required level of intelligence to be a teacher and I'm pretty sure that using Facebook and Twitter are big red flags that you don't meet that level of intelligence.
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IMO the parents should be more worried about their frightfully dim, ratlike, and hateful children. That said the teacher was saying these things on her public blog under her own name, she deserves what she's getting for being frightfully dim herself.
There is a fine line and a large difference between calling a student out for something they need to called on and being mean. The difference is love and the kids know it when they see it. As a teacher you develop a lot of sayings that come in handy. Here's one of my favs: "An easy teacher is loved by students while they are in their class. A hard teacher is loved after they leave." She, unfortunately, was neither.
I am saddened for that little girl, she will be stunted from having growth, all because one teacher could not spend the time to find the key to
breaking through to the girl in a mature and teaching manner. No let's just keep talking sh*t all the time in people's backs, yeah that's it,
this definitely shows the kid, that 1) you can't trust anyone, not even your supposed teachers, 2) no matter how good you do, there will always be some out there that do not try to help you, they only try to undermine you, 3) that this is the world we live in....
I hope the girl can find a good tutor for awhile until they change her schools.
Because nobody here goes on and on about how stupid their clients/coworkers are. If this had been a sysadm getting fired for posting about his users' willful ignorance in regard to basic computing tasks I'm sure your reaction would be the same.
Having a twitter or facebook doesn't indicate a level of intelligence. Are you saying companies like zynga are idiots? As they are probably rolling in more money than they know what to do with. I know an indie musician who has both a twitter and a facebook, and he's gained quite a few fans (and it turn quite a bit of cash) through both services. The fact is these services are just tools, in the hands of a good mind they can do wonders. In the hands of the masses, it's just another shiny object to poke at.
What do I know, I'm just an idiot, right?
I guess no one has considered the possibility that these kids really are lazy, despicable, and sociopathic, and not the little angels their parents think? Oh golly, now there's a newsflash. So this lady decides not to sugar coat how horrible kids have become and gets suspended for it. Bravo to the parents and school board who think it's best to just keep sweeping the problem under the rug, or worse, refusing to admit there is one.
You really have to be a masochist to want to be a school teacher these days. Does the entire system need to implode before anyone starts to realize how fucked up it is and tries to do something about it?
I know that not every teacher is intelligent or ambitious. My next door neighbor is a teacher and I wish she would return to college and earn an advanced degree. That way she might learn how to use a lawnmower, a garden hose, a rake, and a snow shovel.
Really she seems to hate all the kids. You hate on a kid who is shy? One that "gasp" ask questions while you just won't to get out of class, I won't even remember her name next semester if I see her in the hall? O so you even hate the kids is not doing any of the other problems you hate? Hate the weird kid? Hate the kid who is just not super smart (hey you will be glad for him when you need some plumbing, AC, Electrical, or labor done). I guess it is a good thing she did not have a Down syndrome kid in her class because she would have called him a retard probably. I hope this woman never is allowed to teach anywhere because she is just not a good person. The fact that she blogged about it online just shows how stupid she is as well. As a father of 3 girls from 23 to 12 I have to say that some of these types of kids might be mine. They all have different personalities like very shy and easy going, driven and obsessive, outspoken and energetic. All good kids for the most part but you can't expect a class full of kids to all have the same personality. I hope this woman has no children ever.
a lot of these comments side with the school district.
but a lot of the comments here (where someone WON a lawsuit against their employer because of dispariging comments about the boss) side with the employee
http://yro.slashdot.org/story/11/02/09/0233227/Feds-Settle-Case-of-Woman-Fired-Over-Facebook-Posts#comments
i do not see the difference. the teacher, and the person in the other artcile are making comments about their lives on their own time.
Sorry for posting anonymously (can't log in here at work), but I was one of her students. Graduated class of 08 from CB east.
Munroe was a bitch, but honestly... i can't help but agree with most of the things she wrote in the blog. The vast majority of students in that school are shallow, unintelligent, spoiled little shit heads.
People have just never understood satire very well. It's too sophisticated and you get more attention if you get pissed and shout louder than the next guy.
This poor teacher could have posted that they should serve Irish babies for lunch in the cafeteria and the parents would've been just as UP IN ARMS and clamoring for her head.
I saw an interview with her on FOX tonight and Judge Jeanine Pirro was raking her over the coals. She's a sarcastic comedy-style writer and I think most people are not getting that. I love her style because it is MY style. I didn't read this and actually think "Oh, she hates every kid in her class." I thought-here is a teacher who deals with this entitled generation everyday and she makes a joke of it to keep her sanity.
I have a 14 year old in H.S. and most of the people he attends with and many of his friends make me want to say the same things and I have occasionally in various blogs in my lifetime. The fact is-if anyone is to blame, for how this teacher feels, it is the parents! I raise my kids to be independent and kind and be empathetic and respectful and even things like modesty, putting others first, making a good impression, respecting his elders, not using profanity, not making fun of people, etc but he goes to school with a bunch of animals and then he doesn't understand why we have rules and they don't.
I home school my 5 year old. Why? because I have seen what kind of kids attend my older son's public H.S. and frankly,. I don't want my younger son around it. My older son was too old to yank out of school and I gave him a choice and he wanted to stay in Public school.
This teacher is right about many of your kids. They dress like streetwalkers, backtalk, are mean, rude, entitled, are use to being treated like the princesses they definitely are NOT, they lack empathy, judgment, character, and discipline and when a teacher dares to write a funny blog laughing at it all in order to keep her sanity, overly-sensitive parents cry about it and get her fired. Shame on them. WHat these kids need is for the schools to bring back capital punishment where you got a paddling for these types of behaviors. Instead, we fire a teacher for daring to even TALK about it in a blog that only 7 of her closest friends were subscribed to and her full name was not attached to it. (at least from the interview, she said)
I don't blame her for talking bout these damn fools these so call parents are raising because when I do start teaching I dare one of my student to act crazy cause I going to check them and there parents...hell no one want to wake up every morning to go teach some disrespectful immature kids I Blane the parents if u raise our kids right at home you would not have to worry about any body blogging about these animals now who going to check me.... JaCoby
Dear Alli the offended student,
Perhaps you should take your teacher's feelings as a cue to modify your own behavior and/or performance so that she might no longer feel as she does. It's really better you confront reality now, in school, before you have to go out into the world and have to deal with the opinions of those who will have influence and/or control over your career. In other words, time to grow up!
How would you feel having to deal with class after class of ill-mannered dimwit students all day long week in week out month after month? You'd have to let it all out somehow, that's how!
Your feelings matter little.